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Episode 26 - Pinball Conspiracy Theory

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·1h 2m·analyzed·Dec 4, 2018
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TL;DR

SWL hosts discuss new machine announcements and podcast guest etiquette amid speculation about Nick Parks interview.

Summary

Ken and Bill discuss recent pinball news including newly announced machines (Primus, Munsters), reflect on recent podcast interviews (Todd Tuckey, Jack Danger), and explore a "conspiracy theory" about podcast guest booking etiquette after Nick Parks of Pinball Company appeared on Canada's Pinball Podcast without notifying Special When Lit, despite Ken believing they had him booked.

Key Claims

  • Beatles machine's scoring animations are designed to pay homage to Captain Fantastic, specifically replicating the back glass scoring reels setup.

    medium confidence · Christopher Franchi told Ken Cromwell during a Facebook Messenger conversation; Franchi was involved in providing direction for the machine's animations

  • Primus is a re-theme of Whoa Nelly, officially announced with artwork by Zombie Yeti and Zoltron.

    high confidence · Ken and Bill discussing formally announced machine; referenced as public knowledge

  • A hundred-plus extra Primus machines were made for the band, Zombie Yeti, Zoltron, and Matt Stone as a thank you for including Primus on the South Park pinball machine's music track.

    medium confidence · Bill Webb states this during discussion of Primus

  • Munsters pinball leaked from a Stern representative's phone during an overseas distributor presentation.

    low confidence · Ken Cromwell mentions the source of the leak; described as loose rumors

  • Rumors suggest Munsters Premium/LE package may include a lower playfield, a feature Ken finds often lackluster.

    low confidence · Ken Cromwell states 'we're purely speculating right now' and 'it's all loose rumors'

  • Nick Parks discussed specific manufacturer information and distributor pricing on Canada's Pinball Podcast that Ken considers sensitive.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell's observation during discussion; Ken notes this information may not be 'the best publicly discussed'

  • Ken Cromwell had been actively engaging with Nick Parks to book him as a guest on Special When Lit before Nick appeared on Canada's Pinball Podcast.

    high confidence · Ken's direct account of multiple outreach attempts over weeks leading up to Pinball Expo

  • Todd Tuckey was dealing with a book deal that was 'going sour' at the time of his interview.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell's reference to Todd's situation during interview discussion

Notable Quotes

  • “the animations of the scoring, like the old-time kind of EM scoring reels, that whole thing pays homage to... specifically to Captain Fantastic, the Elton John pin.”

    Ken Cromwell (recounting Christopher Franchi's comment) @ early in episode — Reveals design Easter egg in Beatles machine tying it to classic EM design

  • “I forgot we were interviewing him. I thought I was watching a TNT video.”

    Ken Cromwell (about Todd Tuckey interview) @ mid-episode — Illustrates how authentic Todd Tuckey's personality is both on-camera and off

  • “I totally realized that pinball machine wasn't created and art wasn't created for me to appreciate because i am not the primus fan”

    Bill Webb @ discussing Primus artwork — Acknowledges that themed machines are designed for their fan base, not universal appeal

  • “I'm going on record right now, before we go into the next pin, rumored monsters. I enjoy Deadpool premium LE version.”

    Bill Webb @ game discussion segment — Stakes personal claim about game preferences despite peer skepticism

  • “Let's make lower play fields great again.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Munsters discussion — Humorous call to action regarding potentially underutilized playfield feature

  • “he didn't really think to reach out to me to let me know.”

    Ken Cromwell (about Nick Parks) @ conspiracy theory segment — Key grievance in the Nick Parks booking situation

  • “Something seemed off to me. It's just, and I've been doing a lot of thinking about it, and I couldn't figure out exactly what it was.”

    Ken Cromwell @ conspiracy theory segment — Indicates deeper concern beyond simple booking mix-up

  • “He's got complete loyalty to all those that trust him with their industry secrets, so to speak, and I respect the hell out of him for it.”

    Ken Cromwell (about Jack Danger) — Praises professional discretion in competitive industry

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonJack DangerpersonChristopher FranchipersonTodd TuckeypersonNick ParkspersonMatt Stoneperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Primus officially announced as Whoa Nelly re-theme with artwork by Zombie Yeti and Zoltron

    high · Ken states 'Primus, which was formally announced' and 'Primus is a Whoa Nelly Big Juicy Melons re-theme'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Munsters Pro playfield, rule set, and cabinet art leaked from Stern distributor presentation materials

    medium · Ken describes 'a representative from Stern was overseas making a presentation to a distributor's, and that information was leaked from a distributor's phone'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Beatles machine scoring animations designed to homage and replicate Captain Fantastic's EM-era back glass scoring setup

    medium · Christopher Franchi told Ken the animations 'pays homage to... specifically to Captain Fantastic... wanted to make sure that it looked and resembled and replicated the setup of Captain Fantastic'

  • ?

    product_strategy: 100+ extra Primus machines produced for band members, Zombie Yeti, Zoltron, and Matt Stone (South Park creator) as promotional/thank-you strategy

    medium · Bill states 'they made a hundred and a few extras for the band and for Zombie Yeti for Zoltron and for Matt Stone creator of South Park and that extra pin was made for Matt as a thank you'

  • ?

    content_signal: Notable podcast ecosystem activity: Todd Tuckey (Episode 24), Jack Danger (Episode 25), Nick Parks appearance on Canada's Pinball Podcast; multiple interview series active (Head2Head, Canada's, Special When Lit)

    high · Discussion of recent interviews and Nick Parks' appearance on Canada's Pinball Podcast without prior notification to Special When Lit

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.188

0:00
The Special When Lit Pinball Podcast is sponsored by Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale, a juicy hot pale ale that takes your taste buds on a flavorful ride. Woo!
0:11
Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Thanks for hitting that start button and taking the plunge. Here are your hosts, Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to episode number 26 of this special When Lit Pinball Podcast. I am Ken Cromwell. And I am Bill Webb. I want to welcome Bill back to the show. He was supposed to come in for the Jack Danger interview, which was our last episode. And you had a last minute call off. You couldn't make it. Literally, on your way to the studio, like, I got a call. Five minutes away and my wife's like, you know what, your daughter's sick. We got to go to the emergency room. Turned out she had croup. So that was a lovely three-hour tour at the hospital.
1:00
Having kids, that's like the cough where your kids cough and it sounds like a seal. Yeah. I don't know why they should call it seal cough. Well, we knew she had a cold the day before, but we didn't think nothing of it. And then, like I said, she'd woken up right before I got here and she's like, we got to go. And I'm like, oh. Yeah, so I was sitting here. Jack showed up and I'm like, hey, we're going to do this solo. Shout out to Jack. He did a great job being Bill Webb. Yeah, he does a good Bill Webb impersonation. He does. For what it's worth. But welcome to the show, Bill.
1:30
It's kind of exciting because our last couple episodes, we had Todd Tuckey on episode number 24. Yep. And then we had Jack Danger on episode number 25, this being 26. So we had like three episodes in eight days. And this is really the first time we've had a chance to kind of sit down since the last two interviews and just kind of talk pinball. So I'm excited about doing the show today. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Been long overdue. It has been long overdue. What's been happening with you recently? Anything good? Just a lot of family nonsense. So I haven't made a whole lot of progress on Whirlwind. The wind of whirl. Nice. So then it's kind of still sitting where it was before. At this point, I've just taken apart the light board, the door that's in the back box with all the lights on it. Yeah, the sockets, yep. Speaker panel, we'll start cutting those up. So when I do the final spray of the cabinet, I'm going to spray those as well. So just ordering some parts and getting that going. So, I mean, nothing really too crazy to report, but, you know, I'm hoping after this weekend we can start making progress on it. Get back on board with Whirlwind. Yeah. Cool, yeah. It would be fun to update the page with some progress pics. Yeah. Absolutely.
@ Jack Danger interview discussion
Paul Ferris
person
Kanedaperson
Zoltronperson
Zombie Yetiperson
Ryan C.person
Martinperson
Chris Grannerperson
Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
Sterncompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Pinball Companycompany
Beatlesgame
Primusgame
Munstersgame
Whirlwindgame
Deadpoolgame
Captain Fantasticgame
  • ?

    industry_signal: Uncertainty and confusion in podcast guest booking etiquette within pinball community; no clear standards for guest coordination across platforms

    high · Ken's extended discussion of Nick Parks booking situation, statement that 'there's been confusion with that in the past with some other prominent people in pinball'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Ken Cromwell expresses growing concern about Nick Parks' motivation and information sharing after he appeared on Canada's Pinball Podcast without notification, despite apparent prior booking commitment

    high · Ken's detailed account: 'I thought we had him booked... Something seemed off to me... Something had to have happened, in my opinion, to alter his wanting to be on this show'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Rumors that Munsters Premium/LE variant may include a lower playfield; Ken skeptical of this feature's gameplay value

    low · Ken states 'rumors are that there's some significant changes on the premium or le package which could include a lower play field' and 'we're purely speculating right now. You know, it's all loose rumors.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Paul Ferris (noted pinball artist) recently returned to pinball working with Deep Root Pinball

    medium · Bill states 'you've got paul ferris who i'm a big fan of of the paragon back last and to see him back in pinball over at deep root i think that's that's really cool'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of theme-driven machine appeal; artwork and theme can overcome shortcomings in gameplay or other details

    medium · Ken: 'these artwork packages are selling these machines almost on their own... if you throw an unbelievable art package on a machine it makes it a lot easier to digest the shortcomings'

  • $

    market_signal: Trans lights increasingly treated as wall art rather than machine components; market for translite reproductions growing

    medium · Bill discusses how trans lights are 'getting hung up' and are 'pieces of wall art' and more accessible than back glass; speculation on historical sales comparison

  • ?

    community_signal: Machine appreciation highly dependent on fan familiarity with theme; Beatles preferred over Primus by these hosts due to familiarity and theme appeal

    high · Bill: 'I would... If I had to pick between the two machines based on theme, it would be Beatles. Okay. Yeah. And I would agree with you. I like Beatles as a theme a little more. I'm just more familiar with Beatles as a theme.'

    • 2:38
    So this weekend I was in – I was at swim lessons with my daughter. Nice. This is not a swim lesson story. It's not a kid story, but it's funny because this is kind of the segue of what had happened. I'm sitting down and I'm watching my daughter at swim lessons. And, like any good parent would do, instead of watching my child progress, I jumped on my phone and wanted to see what was going on at pinball. Jumped on Facebook Messenger, and I'm like, you know what? I haven't talked to Christopher Franchi in a while. So I pinged Franchi, and it's cool. He gets right back to me. I'm like, what's going on? We were talking a little bit of Beatles, and we were talking a little bit of pinball. He is battling a fruit fly infestation in his house. So about 20 minutes went into our best tips of getting rid of fruit flies, because once a year I do get like fruit or something that comes in and those things are swarming and it takes me a couple of days to figure out how to get them. Oh, yeah. But but I digress. So a little nugget that he gave me on on Beatles that he said has not been either realized or hasn't really been talked about. and I thought it was going to be fun to share this with everybody on the show, is that the animations of the scoring, like the old-time kind of EM scoring reels, that whole thing pays homage to, I mean, obviously EMs, but specifically to Captain Fantastic, the Elton John pin. He's got the backlash for that. He's always wanted a nice Captain Fantastic. So when he was kind of helping doing some direction with the animations on that pin, And he wanted to make sure that it looked and resembled and replicated the setup of Captain Fantastic. So for those of you that have the pin or are playing it and you see the scoring, those animations are based on the back glass scoring reels of Captain Fantastic. I guess the setup and the way it's laid out. That's cool how it pays respect to the older games like that. He's got a lot of Easter eggs in the game, and I appreciate Easter eggs in the games, especially those that haven't been figured out right off the bat. And as you go through a play field and you go through a back glass and you look at artwork and you find things gradually, that's cool. I'm not so much into the Easter eggs that are under plastics and whatnot because you can't really show that to somebody in plain sight without shopping a game in front of them. No, no. And there's nothing more boring than shopping a game in front of somebody for both the spectator and the person doing the shopping. Yeah, that's not fun. No, that's not fun. But I thought that was interesting. But real quick, before we get into a little bit of the pinball news, I did want to cover just briefly the Todd Tucky interview. We didn't get a chance to really talk about that at all. It was really fun having Todd on the show. If anything else, I mean, he's a good sport on anything. He was dealing at the time with the book deal that was kind of going sour, and he's since come up with a big rebuttal to all of the allegations that were made by the general person that was putting that book together. Yeah. But what did you think of Todd? I mean, what was your first impressions and what were your final impressions with Todd? Great guy. You know what? Honestly, nothing much has changed other than a little more educated on Todd himself and TNT. And, you know, all in all, love doing the interview. And he's just a nice, genuinely nice guy. We get a super big dose of Todd that night because I think we recorded for about three hours and 15 minutes. We had just kind of edited it down to about two hours because this is the thing. I don't even like doing two-hour-long podcasts. No, that was rough. And, I mean, honestly, I mean, we covered so much stuff in the interview that we had before it was edited down, which I was happy with. But, I mean, just so many – there's so many different facets of what he's done in his life that you just can't put everything in without literally making an eight-hour DVD, it seems like. I think at some point we'll do like the Vault episodes or something where we'll just come out and share some of the stories from all these interviews that we've done because not everything makes it in. And it's not because it's not interesting. It's just because, I mean, right now you're sitting down listening to a podcast, and we might be six or seven minutes in. And you're probably – the first thing that I do when I look at a podcast, it's like, all right, well, how long is this episode? Yeah. And it's just me personally. And I just didn't feel comfortable uploading a three-and-a-half-hour episode of anything. At that point, you split it into a couple parts, but still, it's a lot. Yeah. You know, I mean, three episodes of that would get a little much, you know? No, but, I mean, going back to Todd, though, what a super cool guy. And it's funny because I was a little bit, I'm not concerned, but I was wondering, is this going to be kind of the same Todd Tucky that I watch on TNT Amusements on the YouTube videos? Is it going to be the same Todd Tucky that we saw and interacted with at Pinball Expo? Is the whole thing kind of a shtick? Is he a character that he's playing and in real life he's kind of a, I don't know, like this grumpy badass? I wasn't really sure, but I can pleasantly say that Todd Tucky was Todd Tucky. We talked 30, 40 minutes even before we recorded the podcast, just kind of getting ready to do that. And at one point, and it was funny because when we were doing this interview, we had him on Skype. So we were able to see him because we sit across a table in our studio from one another. It was impossible for us to Skype both of us at the same time. So at one point, I'm watching Todd reply to questions on the screen, and I forgot we were interviewing him. I thought I was watching a TNT video. That was the crazy part because I kind of felt the same way because he's just sitting there punching away and doing his thing. Yeah, looking up games and stuff. And it's not a shtick. I mean, that's literally how he was for the most part while we were talking, especially beforehand when we were all just kind of chewing the fat and talking smack. Well, and then even afterwards, I mean, we went on and on for like another 20, 30 minutes. I mean, we might have spent three and a half, four hours with Todd that night. And it was cool, man, because at that point, then we were able to kind of individualize each other with showing him our beautiful mugs on Skype. And it was just we were having an online conversation. And since then, I mean, we've been going back and forth. I've been having an ongoing conversation with Todd since the interview. So he's literally a friend of the show and personal friends of ours. So it was just kind of it was a cool thing. And we were happy to share the interview with you guys. And there are some stories and some things that I think we're going to try to release later, you know, gradually that I think everybody will appreciate. So those Tad Tucky fans that came in and paid a visit and listened to the interview, there's more out there. We'll get it out there for sure. Yeah, at some point. Yeah, for sure. You know, sure, we'll have to have him back on at some point, too, except, you know. Yeah, you know what? He definitely should come back on. We should have him. I mean, he's a busy guy, so I'm sure it wouldn't be regularly. Oh, yeah. For him to check in on his future endeavors would be fun. Then we transition over to the Jack Danger interview. I know you weren't there. You weren't present. Did you get a chance to listen to the interview itself? I did listen to it. Okay. What were your thoughts on the interview with Jack? I thought it was a great interview. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. One of the best interviews you ever damn heard. Hey, you know, if you're going to have somebody impersonate you, who better than Jack Danger? Exactly. No. Exactly. Remind me to bring up podcast impersonators later, but go ahead. Exactly. All right. But, yeah, no, honestly, I really liked it. It was great to actually put some of the stories and stuff, you know, with him, you know, just a down-to-earth interview, and that's what it seemed like. That's exactly what it was. I mean, with Jack, and I think our approach to these interviews, it's not so much like this cutting-edge journalism. It's just more sitting down and having a conversation with everybody. And, honestly, I think that makes the person being interviewed comfortable. It makes us comfortable. um yeah it's like bar it's like bar conversation with somebody it is it is and again when we envisioned the podcast it we wanted it to be just the two of us kind of sitting down like we would on pinball night and just talk pinball and that's kind of what we're doing with the interviews yep we're just kind of sitting down just having a conversation like they're in our house or you know in the studio and with jack he was in the studio we're sitting down um we we've known jack for a while um so i mean it wasn't a situation where we had to get comfortable with one another But I'll say this for Jack. He's so well spoken and fun to listen to. I mean, he he can sit down and just kind of carry a show himself. And I know he's he's got a podcast that he's working on or that's actually out there. And we'll get that information and put it in the show notes around the Facebook page. But just very easy to talk to. He's very knowledgeable about what's going on in the industry. and I commend him, not that I was pressing him, but he did not offer any information that should have been offered on or off the podcast and I totally respect him for that. Even though we're buddies, he wasn't like, hey, well, you're going to want to look out for this or hey, this is, I mean, he's got complete. Start watching out. Yeah, he's got complete loyalty to all those that trust him with their industry secrets, so to speak, and I respect the hell out of him for it. So that was a really fun interview. It would only have been better, Bill, if I would have interviewed him longer. No, I'm kidding. If you were in the studio, that would have been awesome, man. I would have had ridiculous questions. But I will say this. One of the most fascinating things about that. I wasn't kidding. It would have been better if you were here, man. I did miss you. I will yell at my daughter and say, how dare you catch croup when we're supposed to interview Jack Danger. Take the croup like a man. Walk it off. Right.
    11:54
    Walk it off. Next time. But one fascinating thing about that is that he can read the messenger while he's playing pinball. Yeah, right? That is crazy. Have you ever done this? Have you ever been playing pinball and you're expecting like a text or something? Like, for instance, I'll be downstairs playing and I'm waiting for somebody to show up. So I'll put my phone on the machine next to me so that I'm playing. And if I see my phone light up in my peripheral vision, I'll know to kind of glance over and read a message.
    12:23
    Just doing that screws me up. Like, I'll drain. For him to be able to kind of like get into chat and play and be able to kind of glance over at what's being thrown at him question or comment wise and still continue through a game is pretty impressive. Oh, yeah, that's insane. So hats off to you, Jack. Yeah, good job. It was fun. It was it was a good time, Jack. So so so good deal in pinball news. We've got a couple of new pinball machines that have since been revealed since we've really kind of last spoke together as as a as a podcast team and not an interview as a duo. and those two machines, Primus, which was formally announced, right? Formerly announced. Formally, not formerly. Well, I guess it's formerly announced, too. The pinball formerly known as Primus. So Primus is a Whoa Nelly Big Juicy Melons re-theme. You guys already know this. Zombietti and Zoltron is his name on the artwork, and you guys already know that. We're not going to deep dive the pin, but I do want to ask you this, Bill. what are your general impressions when you first saw Primus and have you digested it at all since and have you changed opinion I guess they made a hundred and a few extras for the band and for Zombie Yeti for Zoltron and for Matt Stone creator of South Park and that extra pin was made for Matt as a thank you for including Primus on the music track for the original South Park pin that had come out so they're kind of repaying the favor um it's an exciting time for artwork packages and pinball and i'm starting to think like these artwork packages are selling these machines almost on their own uh without even having to worry about some finer details if you throw an unbelievable art package on a machine it makes it a lot easier to digest the shortcomings of anything that might be released oh yeah absolutely you know um yeah i mean the artwork and machines now is just incredible i mean you compare it to anything in the you know 90s i mean they're cool it's sick i mean in the 90s art style is really cool too oh yeah it was a different time it's a different time and and there's a time and a place for that art style too it's just uh man i mean art wise it now is a really cool time to be involved with art you've got um you've got paul ferris who i'm a big fan of of the paragon back last and to see him back in pinball over at deep root i think that's that's really cool and i know i'm missing people here so i i apologize i'm just going off the top of my head like what's fueling me recently yeah and you know what here i mean here's another good way of looking at it you know it'd be real curious to know how many uh trans lights williams sold back in the day and how many trans lights does stern sell because how many people have trans lights that are just getting hung up and yeah they're they are pieces of wall art i mean and they're a little bit more accessible because you're not going to really go out and find a back glass usually and uh you know with pinball machines that have the translates of the older bally williams era they weren't really being reproduced for wall art i don't think at the time either so they were just coin up they were just meant to make money you either had a stack of new old stock stuff or you didn't have anything so to go back to the prime artwork yeah going back it like i i am a really big zombie yeti fan primus doesn call to me so it like it was It hard for me to really appreciate his passion and Zoltron passion behind the band because I think a lot of it goes into the heart of the band and Easter eggs of the band and background stories. So with me kind of being out in left field on that, I was left out in appreciating the artwork to its fullest potential. And that being said, I totally realized that pinball machine wasn't created and art wasn't created for me to appreciate because i am not the primus fan uh so but i think they knocked it out of the park for appealing to the fan base oh absolutely i just wish that i could have been a little bit more included but it wasn't it wasn't meant for me to appreciate as much as somebody else said no but there's other titles that you and i like more where you know other people would be like you know that's not my cup of tea well i mean and let's transition into monsters too because Because, again... Let's go back. Hold on. I'm going to back you up here. Okay. Yeah. So, which do you like better? The Beatles or Primus? Oh, I would... If I had to pick between the two machines based on theme, it would be Beatles. Okay. Yeah. And I would agree with you. I like Beatles as a theme a little more. I'm just more familiar with Beatles as a theme. Yeah. And this is the thing. Like, when I was in high school and going into college, like, I had a couple buddies that got into the Beatles at some point, and then they thought it was cool to listen to the Beatles. And I tried to digest it, and I appreciate Beatles for what it is. It's like, oh, play this backwards, and it says, Paul is dead, man, miss him, miss him. And listen to the end of this record. I buried Paul, like the whole Paul McCartney dead thing. And that was kind of like, oh, that's kind of cryptic and creepy. But it's like, all right, come on, man, it's the Beatles. How scary is this? Is this satanic? Are we downstairs listening to the devil Beatles? I didn't get it. Some of them was Nirvana albums. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, watch some of those documentaries. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, because of that, I was exposed to some of their music that I did end up appreciating with Beatles. Yeah. So, I mean, that's why I think I could sit down and play a Beatles pin, grab a six-pack of beers, and probably have some fun on that machine for a while. Primus, I don't know that I could do the same thing just because it's just not my music style. So I don't know that I would have the same experience. And you know what? All that is subject to change if we literally had the opportunity to play both of them next to each other. Because there's been times where I said I don't like a game as much. And then come to find out I played it and was like, wow, this game is pretty awesome. I need to get one. Yeah, like for me right now, I'm really loving Deadpool. Contrary to popular belief of a couple of guys. And Zack and Greg are straight down the middle. I think they're making fun of me because of my Deadpool prowess. But I'm going on record right now, before we go into the next pin, rumored monsters. I enjoy Deadpool premium LE version. I have not played the pro, but as somebody that currently has an LE, I freaking love it, man. It's good. But you know what? I also like X-Files, which is contradictory to those that think that I know anything about pinball. You know what? One I wouldn't mind playing one day would be Monopoly if I ever found one. Yeah, I mean, there are games that are fun. But before we get into games that are fun that some people don't think that are fun, it's all subjective, right? I mean, so the other pin that's rumored to be released next by Stern is the Munsters. And there was a little bit of a leak that had happened showing some of the play field, the rule set, and cabinet art for Munsters Pro. I guess supposedly representative from Stern was overseas making a presentation to a distributor's, and that information was leaked from a distributor's phone. Yada, yada, yada. Anyways, did you get a chance to see any of the leaked photos of Munsters? I did. I think it looks good. But you know what, though? I really just want to play it before, because that's one that I know one of us in the pinball group will be buying that. It'll be me. If not multiple. I'm going in on Munsters. And this is the thing. We were talking about themes earlier.
    19:40
    Growing up, when Munsters came on the TV as a kid, it just – I don't know. I didn't like it. I just turned it off. I wasn't a Munsters fan. It was okay. See, I watched it because there was nothing else on. Yeah, and I did watch it because sometimes I'd be at somebody else's house. I didn't know how to change the channel. So, I mean, some of it was kind of campy and fun and that sort of thing. But at no point in my adult life did I ever think to myself, if they only made a Monsters pinball machine, it would tie everything in for my Grail theme and potentially awesome gameplay. It wasn't anything I was ever thinking about. It was never on my radar.
    20:16
    I would agree with you, but it's almost like a modern-day Addams Family, especially with what people are saying about it. I think the timing's impeccable because it's Stern's Monster Bash. It's Stern's Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle. It's Stern's Addams Family. And it's a campy horror kind of themed pinball machine. It's perfect timing and a perfect release, I think, to go hand-in-hand with all these pins that are available for purchase. And it looks beautiful. So the artwork looks incredible. And again, that's Christopher Franchi, right? I mean, another killer project for him that we're now able to look at. And I can't wait to play the game. Now, we saw the pro. rumors are that there's some significant changes on the premium or le package which could include a lower play field i i'm not really a big fan of lower play fields because they usually are lackluster and sometimes in the way almost where it kind of seems counter intuitive so i'm really hoping if there is a lower play field on the premium le package that they make it worth the effort if that makes sense because you're taking that artwork off of the play field in the middle to focus on an under play field. So let's do something fun and ingenuitive with an upper play field. Or a lower play field, rather. Yeah. I mean, you just hope that the engineering effort was worth its weight in gold in order to have something like that. Yeah. I mean. And we're purely speculating right now. You know, it's all loose rumors. Well, that's true. I mean, that's all we can do. And we're talking about what I've heard other people talk about. Maybe there's not a lower play field. But if there is, let's make it fun. Let's make lower play fields great again. I like it. You know? I like it. So we'll see what happens with that. I wanted to talk about a couple podcast interviews that I heard recently. Ah, okay. And in one of these interviews, I want to be careful on how I discuss it. And on the other interview, I want to discuss it as much as we can because, just because. I like it. So, and those two interviews were one on Canada's Pinball Podcast. He had interviewed Nick Parks of the pinball company. and on interview number two uh ryan and martin at head to head pinball had interviewed chris granner um who's been doing music and sounds and pinball forever i'd like to just touch on each for a minute or two and then we can move on do you have a preference on which way we go first well we're going to start with canada and the nick parks interview okay and a big part of that is because we got to say congratulations to getting married yeah to uh mr mrs cluress yes yep um Congratulations.
    22:49
    Hopefully there's many more pinball machines to come and life is good. So hopefully everything went off without a hitch. Yeah, congratulations, guys. Many years of happiness. Many, many, many years. Many years. So the Kaneda interview, he has Nick Parks on. Now, first let me say this. I thought it was a really good interview. It was. By Kaneda. It was a great interview. In my opinion, I think Kaneda does really good interviews. Yeah. Most of the time when he's done with an interview, I'll even reach out to him and be like, hey, man, I appreciate what you did there. That was really good.
    23:21
    No different with the Nick Parks interview. I will say that. I will say this, though. So just hear me out here, and I'm going to let all the listeners in on some back and forth on what's been happening kind of behind the scenes. I was a little bit puzzled, and I remember the morning that this had happened because we had spoken to Nick prior to Pinball Expo. and i sat down with nick like in person prior to pinball expo and he was kind of talking about some endeavors that he was currently working forward to completing one of those being the chicagoland pinball expo he we met because of the podcast okay so i'm like nick these are incredible ideas i would love to be able to talk about chicago pinball hall of fame and let's get you on the show and he's like yeah man he's like i totally want to go on the show he's like i don't want to really announce anything one because i'm still finalizing things and two i've got a seminar pinball expo and i want to be able to talk about that i completely get it i'm like yeah nick you absolutely have to do that let's just do a follow-up after expo or we can tease it prior to expo do your talk and then afterwards we can talk about uh you know what happened and kind of expand on maybe questions that people had regarding the pinball hall of fame yeah yeah that sounds good That sounds good. So every week or 10 days, you know, I made it a point to kind of reach out to him and then bring up the podcast again. He's like, yeah, we're going to do it. Absolutely. Sounds good. So in my mind, I thought we had him booked as a guest on the show. Yep. Okay. So then I remember I got a call from you one morning a few weeks ago. It was like 1 o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, hey, dude, did you know Nick's on, you know, Canadian show doing an interview? And you're like, no. And I'm like, yeah, sorry, dude. I'm like, it's not me for fools. Yeah. So literally he had to look to make sure that I wasn't, you know, jagging him. Then, of course, I wasn't. Right. So right then and there, I'm like, I didn't really quite figure out what was going on. So I checked and, you know, sure enough, Nick Park's Pinball Company on Kaneda. I'm not mad about it at all. It's okay. I'm not even disappointed. I just was really thinking that we kind of had that set up and I was waiting for Nick's okay before we really said anything. ultimately and you know no harm no foul with canada because i think he did an outstanding interview he really hit it out of the park he did so i'm not you know that's not a loss for the interview itself no and i don't i don't think his intention was like poaching a guest or anything from us i don't think that was there i thought he knew in all honesty right which brings which leads me into this okay and this is uh i don't know like ken's pinball conspiracy theory you're You ready?
    26:00
    It just made no sense. I thought we had him booked. He goes on Kaneda. I pinged Nick afterwards, and I'm like, hey, I saw you went on Kaneda. Yep. Like, he didn't really think to reach out to me to let me know. Now, whether or not Nick really knows the etiquette involved with podcast interviews, and I think there's been confusion with that in the past with some other prominent people in pinball, so I can't be mad at anybody for that. I can't even be disappointed. But I will say this. When he went on the interview, and again, I'm going to say this, Kaneda did a great job on the interview, and I thought Nick was a great interview guest. Something seemed off to me.
    26:41
    It's just, and I've been doing a lot of thinking about it, and I couldn't figure out exactly what it was. I think the first thing that puzzled me was me actively engaging with Nick and trying to get him on the show, which I thought we were going to do. That surprisingly didn't happen. So something had to have happened, in my opinion, to alter his wanting to be on this show.
    27:06
    Okay. All right. We're following you so far. You're following me so far? Okay. Number two, Nick offered a lot of information on that show, which was pretty revealing stuff. And I'm not even talking so much about distributor purchase pricing or anything like that. But, I mean, he gave a lot of specifics going down the road with a lot of the manufacturers. A lot of information that I thought maybe I knew was there. Was not the best publicly discussed? Maybe not publicly discussed on the podcast. So, I mean, that was kind of another thing. I'm like, did he really have an idea of kind of like what he was divulging? And again, this isn't life-threatening or career-ending stuff here. It was just interesting because it was stuff that you didn't hear spoken about on podcasts. So that was another thing that was kind of weird. the third thing that that kind of threw me off was that at the conclusion of the interview when chris was like all right well thanks for being on the show it almost seemed like nick was a little perturbed that chicago pinball expo wasn't even brought up in that interview so then i started thinking okay so what was discussed prior to the interview like was he supposed to cover what happened with the past with jetsons and kind of leak information or talk about pinball stories with all the manufacturers and then leave out his most important thing that's going on in his life.
    28:31
    So I don't know what they were planning on discussing, but that was also really, really strange to me. So then I started thinking to myself, why did Nick not go on our show? Which, again, I'm totally fine with. This is just Ken's pinball conspiracy theory. Well, you're connecting dots to see what you can draw. I'm connecting dots. So in my opinion, something had to have transpired which led Nick to make the decision to go a different direction, to talk about information. And I don't know what that was or what that is. But no hard feelings. Oh, absolutely no hard feelings. Because again, Kaneda did an awesome job interviewing. Oh, yeah. And Nick was an awesome guest. But it just kind of blew my mind how everything went down and how everything kind of came about.
    29:20
    And that's why I'll go back to my original saying, saying something just felt a little bit off. I don't know what it was. I can't put my finger on it. There was something weird. Well, you know what, here. So forgive me here, but I'm going to reel you in on this one and bust out my magic eraser on this. But maybe they had talked long before we talked to Nick about being on the podcast, and they just finally got around to it. That could absolutely be it. But then at that point you would hope that, I mean, I guess if I said, hey, do you want to come on the show? and in all honesty this just happened with another guest that we were supposed to have on the show it did who committed to come on the show and then we found out later that after where we were trying to book the time it's like oh yeah i just went on another show i don't even know if it was a podcast or not it's like wait what and uh so at that point we decided to just kind of step back it doesn't make any sense if somebody goes on a podcast and talks about something uh i i think unless the content is going to be different than what they just discussed yeah it wouldn't make sense but even then it's like i mean do you really want to hear if if i started a pinball company and i went on a podcast and somebody did a proper interview do you want to hear me go on another podcast and and hear my voice again uh talk about similar things i don't even know maybe because we have a lot of people that won't listen to us because we're too too controversial yeah we're very cutting edge controversial here so so we might be you know missing that listenership oh Oh, yeah. It's because of our controversial status. I know. So I guess, I don't know. So either way, you feel that there's more to that. There's more to that interview, thank you, than we think happened. And if I'm completely wrong, it's okay. Again, I'm just talking. It just my gut feeling is that there was like a third party or another situation that we not aware of which is fine that ultimately shaped the direction of that whole situation which I going on record as saying I thought was an excellent interview by Kaneda and Nick was an excellent guest And I mean, kudos to you guys. I listened to the whole interview, and I really, really liked it. I recommend it to some people. But as I sit and think about it and digest it, digest it, it just something felt off to me. And, you know, this could be me sitting around not knowing anything anymore, just trying to reach for something not to talk about on the podcast. But I just noticed that my mind starts working overdrive lately. Anything pinball related, like if it comes if I get information, I'm thinking about, all right, well, I'm going to talk about this in the podcast. and how will I talk about this and get my point across without offending anybody and how will I do this without making somebody think I'm an idiot. So I don't know if I've offended anybody or made anybody feel like an idiot, but the Kaneda, Nick Park's interview was awesome. I found it trivial on how it actually came about and the information that was discussed.
    32:24
    But I was a fan of the interview and I'm not mad that we didn't do it. No, no. And we will be looking for the magic bullet for a while. And you know what's funny? Probably I'll hear from Kenan and be like, dude, what are you talking about? Like, literally, I just asked him if he wanted to come on the show. And he said, yeah. And then we were just talking about stuff and forgot to talk about the Pinball Hall of Fame because we were getting close to an hour mark and we wanted to end the show. And in all actuality, that's probably what it is. But because of my new segment, Ken's Pinball Conspiracy Theory. That was what you came up with. I have to do deep dives on things and make them a lot larger than what they actually are. All right, so let's go back to the other interview we wanted to talk about. Head to Head with Chris Graner. Yeah, so that was my other interesting interview of the last couple weeks. That was a great interview as well, man. It was awesome. Yeah, it was really good. Hearing those stories, you know, and you were real excited to tell me that I needed to listen to it, you know, just because of how great it was. And I agree with you. Hearing the stories about, you know, Terminator 2, which, you know, pulls at heartstrings for me because it's a sentimental game for certain reasons, was just awesome. You love T2, and when I heard the interview with, again, Ryan and Martin at Head to Head Pinball, and you can listen to their podcast. It's Head to Head Pinball.
    33:40
    I immediately thought of you because Chris Granner, I mean, he's been in so many iconic pinball machines that we've both owned.
    33:47
    And for him to go in depth into kind of Terminator 2, which you said is so sentimental to you, when I heard that interview, I'm like, Bill's got to listen to this. yeah and uh i'll be honest like it started off like they asked chris a question and he went on like this tangent for like seven eight minutes and i was like oh my gosh this this this might be a little rough a little rough but it wasn't at all because to listen to this guy to chris granner talk about anything pinball is like he's so enthusiastic he's so fun we use the word passionate so many times this guy just reeks of passion and what he does in in the industry well Well, and he just started spewing about all these games, you know, T2, Adam's Family, you know, Whirlwind. It's just crazy, you know, and the amount of stuff they were able to put in these games back then when they didn't really have a way to do it. They literally stretched the capacity of what they could with these sound packages. It's just incredible. And the thing that I liked about it, too, and I tip my hat to both Martin and Ryan, see it head-to-head, they know how to guide the interview. They know the questions they want to ask. They know when to let the guests kind of go on and talk about what they want. Because the secret of this also when you're interviewing somebody in a pinball podcast or I imagine anywhere, at least from what I've learned, is when you ask a question, allowing them to answer and then staying silent usually allows them to offer an additional nugget that they weren't normally ready to disclose. And they just guided that interview so well and they let Chris kind of take the ball with the questions and run with it. And it was just, I'm a big fan of that. That was one of my most favorite interviews that I had heard on any podcast. Second to the Jack Danger interview that I just heard on, I think it was Special and Lit, pinball podcast. Yeah, that was me and Jack. That was like my favorite one. No, I'm kidding. No, that was a great interview. It was awesome. So, you know, head to head, great job. Yeah, nice job, guys. Chris, thank you for going on their show and providing all of us, you know, the entertainment of the stories that go behind these. I mean, that's what really fascinates me with a lot of these older games. just the history behind them and how they came to be and stuff that got cut. See, and I think that's an interesting topic to talk about. And what I want to ask before we end the show is I really want to figure out what people that listen into the show or are listening to podcasts in general in the pinball community, what they actually want out of a podcast. And, you know, is it these background hidden stories that nobody knows about? Is it the pinball news? Is it just going back and forth about speculation and pinball conspiracy? So we'll touch on that in a little bit. But, again, head-to-head, nicely done. Kaneda, nicely done. Very, very good interviews. Yeah, you guys made an interesting couple weeks for us. Did you want to talk a little bit about code releases? Stern just nailed out a surprise Metallica update, which is Lyman Sheets, right? Yeah. Shocking and awing with some more Metallica. And then Lonnie Ropp just dropping. Kiss code out of nowhere. Right. Where's the kiss code? I was talking to somebody today, and I'm like, when I think of Pinside, One of the threads that always stick out in my mind is, where's the KISS code? Stern, where's the KISS code? There's the KISS code. It's there. Yeah, it took a little longer than some of them might have liked, but the fact that they're still updating games that old is awesome. Now, we have not played the KISS code because, honestly, I've never played original KISS, so I wouldn't know the difference of a new KISS code or an old KISS code. Yeah, we played one like two years ago. Right, just not a big – yeah, we did. We did. I'm just, again, another band that doesn't call to me, KISS. I think it was cool. but there's other bands that I've never had. Yeah, right. But it's cool. So, hey, I wonder how many people hung on the KISS for a long time thinking that it was done, and then there's this code that drops. Who sold their KISS like a week or two ago? They're like, this sucks. There's no code updates. Yeah, that 1.4 comes out. It's like, oh. Yeah, now to buy that GameBag is $500 more. Yeah. You know, that's the crazy part about it. It is pretty crazy. So, hey, surprise, surprise. What's next, do you think, for a surprise code update? I'd love to see a little Ghostbusters. Yeah, Ghostbusters. Not that I think Ghostbusters needs it. No, no. But I think you could freshen up the game a little bit. You can freshen up all these games. You know, I'd love to see Transformers new code. Yeah. Not the, you know. Really? And a Fishtails new code, right? And a Fishtails. Actually, and a T2.
    38:10
    Hey, how did I know? Because I'm predictable. You might see a Baywatch new code one day, too, huh? I have seen that new code. Yeah, there is new code for Baywatch a little bit. But, yeah, good times. Well, when we say new code within the last couple years. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, it's fun. So I do want to introduce a new segment to the show that we'll probably studio produce next week. But I really wanted to focus on a Bill Webb's corner, like things that are making you wonder what's happening. Or maybe you're talking about your pinball cabinets. or maybe you're talking about topics that are happening in Pimbal to interest you because just recently you launched a Facebook page. I did. You want to talk a little bit about that? So on Saturday I was having the proverbial famous 50-50 drink. What's the 50-50 drink for those that are joining the podcast late? It would be Pepsi and Captain Morgan rum. Just high class. Yeah, nothing but the best from across the street liquor store. There you go. But, no, I did launch a Facebook page, and I was actually having drinks, and I was like, you know, I want to see some pinball cabinets, you know, and progress on projects with cabinets and cool stuff, artwork, re-themes, or not really re-themes, but, you know, games that have been re-decaled, new cabinets, redone cabinets, anything that revolves around the cabinet more so than the play field as much. So the name of the page is Pinball Cabinet Builders and Restorations. Wait, is it Pinball Cabinet Builders? No, no, no. Spelled B-U-I-L-E. I think it should be Builders. No, no, no. D-E-R. No, no, no. Okay. Because I want to see what other people are doing. Okay. You know, I mean, I think that just seeing that stuff is fascinating. I know people will reach out and say, hey, that's cool, post pictures and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I like seeing that stuff too. So, you know, I was having, like I said, a drink, and I was like, we're going to create a page for this. Right. You know, if it takes off, great. So yeah, I haven't uploaded a whole lot to it or really anything yet, but I'm hoping to upload stuff. You just got to wait for your next 50-50 night to upload the content, right? Yeah. Because the idea came out of a 50-50. Yeah. So then naturally the content should come out of 50-50s. Most great decisions come with alcohol.
    40:22
    That's the trick there. I've made a couple bad decisions too. Well, yeah. But you're right. It's the give and take. um but uh yeah so you know um anyone that listens to the show feel free to uh like the page and uh post pictures of your your projects i love seeing that stuff too so how can they find it pinball cabinet builders and restoration correct okay on facebook yes very cool man so then so then that's got to be the segment like in the podcast is a part of your facebook page and just have kind of interaction with that a little bit if you're up for it oh yeah definitely anyone that has questions or whatever, feel free to message me on Facebook or the page. I think you'll have a lot of people that maybe aren't necessarily building cabinets but are peeking in to see what people are doing in building cabinets. And that kind of brings people to want to do that their own. You know what I mean? Same thing with kind of the homebrew stuff where it's like, oh, I wish I could do that. You start watching it long enough. You start following it. Then you're like, hey, I'm doing this. I'm doing homebrew. Well, you know, here, like Joe Fricasso would say, you know, YouTube is everyone's favorite, you know, vote of confidence, you know. any band to say, you know, if you want to do something, watch YouTube, and it'll give you that false sense of hope that you can do something, and away you go. Yeah, that's true. Well, I mean, this is kind of essentially that. You know, you don't know if you can do something until you try. And if this gives people confidence to say, hey, I don't like the graphics on this game, or I want to try and do this, pick someone's brain. To offer, like, not customer support, but, I mean, are you able to get a network of people to kind of answer questions? Or like, hey, Bill, how do I make this joint? How come this is off? How come I'm one thirty second of an inch off on this side, but not this side if I'm using the same template? I mean, is this all stuff that you're willing and able and prepared to answer? Because you're putting yourself out there by running the group. If I can. Absolutely. And I'm hoping that the group will also be self-sufficient at some point. You know, with a network of people that, you know, someone posts a question on there. And, you know, more than just one person can answer. It's exciting. You know, I'm not trying to build a group just around my knowledge because I don't know nearly as much. Yeah, no, I get it. As much as other people do. Yeah. So I just thought it was something cool and different. You're pretty knowledgeable, though. I mean, most knowledgeable pinball cabinet builder that I know. Well, in St. Charles.
    42:33
    Yeah, our small town. Illinois, not Missouri. Yeah, yeah. Two other guys smarter in St. Charles, Missouri. Have you ever been to St. Charles, Missouri? No, I always think it's like a fourth or fifth dimension that's exactly St. Charles, Illinois, but like a little southern twang. Very nice. Very nice community. I was down there like 15 years ago. I love it. Very beautiful. Hilly and cool. Really cool. We should go down there. I don't know why we would, but I mean. Because then we can do our St. Charles podcast out of St. Charles, Missouri. I'd have to pay for the extra voiceover to say Missouri. Or we just dub it in. But yeah, we could do that. Oh, you know what? And one other thing I wanted to say is, you know, with the earthquake last week in Alaska, I wanted to just touch on that and say that, you know, hopefully everybody's all right. There was one guy in particular that I've been talking to about getting him some coin doors. And we had our family situations going on, which kind of impeded some of that. And then now with the earthquake, I haven't been able to get a hold of him. So if you hear this, hopefully you're all right and get in touch, man. We'll get this taken care of and everybody else. And hopefully your families are okay and it's minor damage. Yeah, it's scary, man, anywhere, anyplace, anytime. It doesn't matter where you live. You're susceptible to either an earthquake or a tornado or a hurricane or all three. Well, one of my favorite ones. Or the wildfires that have been hit in California. I mean, that's huge. Well, here, let's think about this. So the National Corvette Museum in Kentucky, right? Away from earthquakes and all that other kind of crazy stuff, not next to a coast for a hurricane.
    44:03
    And then a sinkhole swallows up like 20 cars. It doesn't matter what you do. God has a plan. It's not up to us. It's going to happen. No, you're right. You're right. You know what? You can make decisions that alter that finality. You don't have to. True. I'm a big believer your whole life's not planned out for you. It's the decisions that you make that put you in one direction or another. Yeah. You're not just walking through a script of predetermined outcome. That's just my personal belief. No, I agree with you. And we won't get religious here because that's a whole other topic and a whole other podcast. Hallelujah. Woo-hoo.
    44:43
    That's the best way to segue into another segment. Just go. um um um um so we were talking about it'd be fun to do some remote location podcasting like go to a bar somebody's pinball night and just kind of you know crank out an episode and it made me wonder because i was thinking about this we've had this discussion a little bit recently and it's what do people ultimately want out of a out of a newer pinball podcast we're still relatively newer right i think so we launched in july we're 26 episodes in if we were doing an episode a week you know obviously 52 weeks of the year so we get about a half year of of episodes that have been uploaded i think we're a little ahead of the game and i started wondering because there are so many podcasts out there that do really good jobs with a certain direction of their show and and immediately i think of i mean let's just cover a couple podcast we can't cover them all no no But we're certainly – We have respect for them all. Absolutely. We don't have enough time. Any single person that kind of gets behind the microphone and takes the time to put together content, whether you edit or you don't, it's time. And you're doing it because you love it. It's not because you're making a million dollars. We can both speak to that. Oh, yeah. Here, we don't have enough hours in the day. No. I mean – You and I both right now are struggling to find time for ourselves, let alone to do this. Especially, yeah, the holidays and everything has been very, very busy. But that being said, I enjoy that we do kind of have this escape for an hour, hour and a half to get downstairs and in the studio, do our thing. And then there's editing that goes on after that. But I want to ask the listeners this. And if you get an opportunity to hit us up with a reply, whether it's on our Facebook page, which is Special When Lit Pinball Podcast, if you'd like to email us at specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com, anything. Because this is going to be important on how we take the show in 2019. and i'm wondering going back to podcasts like you think of a news related podcast somebody that covers the news really really well and i think this weekend pinball does an outstanding job zach many been driving that show for i think 25 26 episodes and uh you know whether he got a guest on or not I know that Jeff Patterson and the content that those guys bring is going to be enough information really for me to absorb for the week as far as pinball news. When I think of, I mean, would you agree? Oh, absolutely. They do. You know, Zach does a great job. Yeah. His skits are hilarious. His impressions are hilarious. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love him. Yeah. I think Dr. Phil retired. I think he did. On today. Yeah. Moment of silence for Dr. Phil.
    47:21
    And then... Screw you, Zach Vinny! I had to do it once. I know. Hey, that's fine. That was just a friendly love between me and Zach. Zach and I. Nothing but love for Dr. Phil. I miss him a little bit. Dr. Phil Vinny. I bitched about him being on the show all the time. And I'm like, man, screw you, Ken Cromwell. That kind of sucks. I could put a lot of time and effort in this if that's my recognition. Screw you, Ken Cromwell. You know what? And now that he might be retired, I'm almost like you've got to be careful for what you wish for.
    47:54
    But, yeah, so I think this week in pinball covers the news really, really well. They do a great job.
    48:00
    All right, so head-to-head pinball. They do a really good job of covering the news. But, I mean, they go beyond that. They've got interviews, it seems like, every week or every other week. They do get into a lot of personal tournament play and whatnot that I'm not interested in as much, but I still listen because I support those guys who do the podcast. but they do a really good job with what they do. You think of other podcasts.
    48:21
    I mean, we'll talk about Canada. It talks about the hot topics that a lot of people shy away from. And he don't give a care about what might be popular vote. He'll tell you how he feels in that minute. No, you're right. And you know what? I think it's almost... Which he might not feel that way 12 hours later. But at that moment when he records, he keeps it the way that he feels. So, you know, hats off to him for that. I appreciate his honesty. Oh, yeah. I almost wonder if it's to his detriment sometimes where maybe he just needed to approach it a little bit differently. But that's not for me to judge because I listen to his podcast. Yep. And I never know what to expect. So he kind of covers the shock and awe, and he's got really good interviews. Oh, yeah.
    49:07
    Dennis and Tony from Eclectic Gamers Podcast. these are guys that are knowledgeable guys about pinball and they also get into kind of the video game side of things usually in the second half or set or like the last third of their podcast and that's kind of refreshing for me because i do like to hear about what's going on i don't have as much time for video games anymore but i do like to hear i mean and if you think there's drama in pinball there's drama in video games too so i mean and those guys do a really good job of covering what's going on, not only in their personal lives as it kind of pertains to pinball and video games, but giving you the updates in the news and then just running a fun show. So I like that. You've got Jeff Teolis at Pinball Profile. I mean, just very professional, very polished.
    49:55
    The thing I like... Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was going to say, the thing I like about Jeff's interviews, for the most part, it seems like his shows are shorter, 25 to 45 minutes, and I think that's kind of a sweet spot for people that just want to pop in on the ride to picking up the kids and coming home. They want to be able to knock an episode out. And he's a seasoned professional. He's been doing radio for a long time. Don't forget about Mrs. Penn. Yeah, so Mrs. Penn is – why don't you talk about Mrs. Penn? Well, she definitely keeps it real with the way that she feels.
    50:26
    I have to say that you might want to put your earbuds in if you're listening to her show around the kids. Well, yeah, don't drive around with your kids in the car listening to Mrs. Penn. Yeah, if you're outside working on something, don't put it on your radio for everyone in the neighborhood to hear. It's raw, and she's honest about how she feels. Well, you know what? It's that new excitement and enthusiasm about everything. She's got her WOMP, which is the Women of Mother Pinball. Beep. Yeah. And that's her kind of segment that she gives out. But she knows a lot of people, and I enjoy listening to her podcast as well for the content that she does bring. She does, absolutely. You've got the Slam Tilt podcast. I mean, they've been doing it for a super, super long time.
    51:12
    And, I mean, they just recently are kind of experiencing podcast burnout, and they're taking a break from consistency and frequency of episodes. But, again, that's another podcast that kind of covers the news, personal things. I think some tournament play and stuff like that. Again, I'm not into the tournament play as much, but I've listened to their podcast, and I appreciate it. And I don't want to miss anybody, but the whole reason that I'm kind of talking about this is you've got all these guys that have been doing this for a long time. I think – was that freaky? I just kind of stopped talking. So you've got all these people that have been – are you all right? I thought you were having a stroke, dude. I was like, oh, shit. No. So you've got all these people that have been doing this for a while, or most of these people have been doing it for a while. They have their established kind of target audience, and I think people have gravitated to those podcasts first. They appreciate them for what they are. So as a new podcast, as we are, if we kind of rehash some of that, are we really offering full content to people that could potentially listen to the show? So I'm wondering this.
    52:20
    As people that have listened or if you've spoken to people that listen to podcasts, do we kind of change format a little bit in 2019 or do we alter our format a little bit? Because I think we definitely have to cover the news on important situations. But do we have to go five, ten stories into every little thing in the news every single week? I can do that, but I don't know that that's to our benefit to do that. Yeah, I'm curious to see. I like some of the stuff that we've talked about, and I'm really curious to hear what people's opinions are. If they like the format, if they want to see some segments added, some segments taken out. Not that we have a whole lot to take out. Yeah, my thing is the segments, right? We've had some really good segment ideas, not even the segments that we had on the show prior. But I've got new segments, and we've talked about new segments. I'd like to have a segmented show. and I just think it offers a structure and it allows people to kind of understand exactly what to expect of the podcast every single week. Not to give ourselves props, but I mean, again, our interview approach is different than most and we've got generally pretty good feedback from our interviews because they've just been kind of laid back conversations. I definitely want to continue doing our interviews and with our location being in Chicago, it makes no sense for us not to sit down and look these people in the eye and have a pinball conversation.
    53:36
    But do we change? I guess the question is this. What can we add to the show that would make it more interesting, that would make it more pleasurable for a listening experience, for anybody that chooses to play us or stream us off their phone or their computer? What can we do? Or do you like us and just keep shooting from the hip as we normally do when there's news or not news? Yeah, I mean, we're not going to change our personalities. No, no, no. But the feedback is helpful for us to know what people really like. You know, that's why I'm still open with the World Wind update, even though there hasn't been a whole lot. Sorry, but, you know, so, yeah, definitely give us your feedback and, you know, hopefully make some good changes or no changes and take it from there. I think it's important that we just offer the listeners an opportunity to kind of sculpt the show.
    54:26
    Well, we want to grow with the listeners. That's perfect. We want to grow as a show with our listening audience. and by growing we want to be able to bring in people that maybe haven't listened or stopped listening. Yeah. We'll have a chance to come back. And the people that I've spoken with that have listened to this, I feel like because they know us, they listen to us because they can relate, which makes it easier when you actually meet these people and you're able to say, and they're like, hey, I love this, and you're just able to jump in on the fly talking to people about this stuff. It's because you relate on these things. Yeah. We've gotten some honest feedback, too, from people who are like, well, this kind of sucks, and I'd appreciate it if maybe you guys just kind of skipped this. And I like that stuff, too. I'll take the negatives with the positives. The only thing I guess I ask is just be kind of respectful with your constructive criticism. I'm not willingly opening up the door to get ransacked or ruined. Yeah, I'm not at home, so if it could be constructive, that'd be great. Yeah, that'd be great. But, yeah, I mean, we would love to see how we take the direction of the show in 2019. And, again, it's not going to be an overhaul. But changes, gradual changes, and drive a show that makes sense for everybody that listens. And speaking of driving a show, we have this. So we've kind of touched on this in the past, and it's about our year-end show. Did we miss something? No. Oh, okay. So we've kind of teased this in the past, and I think we can announce this now, right? Oh, yeah. As long as you're comfortable, I'm good. Yeah, no, so that's fine. So we've been doing a lot of work behind the scenes on what we want to do is we want to offer a Christmas gift. Yeah, holiday gift, Christmas gift to the listeners for coming through here in the long haul after, you know, we're at 26 episodes. And it's not going to be a prize pack. It's not going to be a trans light. You know, unfortunately, it's not going to be a Penn Stadium lighting kit. But what it is going to be is our special thank you for myself and Bill. And our special co-host, guest host for that show is going to be Dwight Sullivan. So myself, Bill, and Dwight Sullivan are going to be hosting a year-end holiday special. How many guests are supposed to be on this one episode, Ken? So we have about 50 guests lined up for this show. And each guest is going to offer us this. They're going to offer a 2019 pinball resolution, a 2019 pinball prediction. and then the floor is open for them to offer any thanks to anybody that might have helped them or that they appreciated in 2018 or throughout their career.
    56:54
    We're going to keep each of the resolutions to under 60 seconds. Ideally, some of these have run a little bit over, but the ones that have gone over, I think are funny enough or interesting enough to where you don't mind that they went over 60 seconds. So this is going to be a show of 50 people that are very prominent in pinball. This isn't going to be a lackluster show, I promise you this. And we can talk about some of the guests on our next show. As we're still compiling the audio, we've already started editing this up. And our goal is to launch this on December 24th, which is Christmas Eve. I'm speculating it to be about a two or two and a half hour show, which goes against everything that I believe in because I don't like two hour podcasts.
    57:36
    And with that being said, if you want to stop at an hour and 15 minutes on it, Feel free to and come back to it the next day. And that's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping with the holidays and travel and being able to pop in the car, listen to 20, 25 minutes here, go to another podcast, come back, knock out another 20, 25 minutes. These are going to be 40 or 50 rotating yes in information. And then what's going to happen is now I've obviously listened to all of these prior because I have to edit all this up for the show. But for Bill Webb and for Dwight Sullivan, who's a programmer at Stern. We've not been privy to any of these. Game developer at Stern. Yeah, they have not heard these for the first time, so it'll be interesting to get some reaction. We'll probably group these into clips of five or six at a time, whether it be by manufacturer or by position in the industry. We're going to have presidents and owners of pinball companies that are coming on the show. We're going to have artists. We're going to have game designers. We're going to have programmers, game developers. People that are just influential in this. Fellow podcasters. Yep. But just this should be a wonderful, wonderful show. You know, and honestly, Ken and I talked about this for, you know, the amount of people that we brought on.
    58:49
    And hopefully we haven't missed anybody. But if we did, you know, we really tried to make sure that we included everybody that we could possibly, you know, could. So I think it would be awesome. We reached out throughout the board. I mean, we've got representatives from Stern Pinball, Jersey Jack Pinball, Spooky Pinball, Deeper Pinball.
    59:07
    Chicago Game and Come, I mean, all over the place. So it's going to be a podcast that we put together, again, as a year-end thank you, but it's like no other show that I've ever heard from a pinball standpoint. Is that going to be the largest interviewed pinball podcast? Potentially. I mean, I don't look that up, you know, and it might sound overwhelming. Who wants to listen to 50? I mean, these are pre-recorded holiday resolutions and predictions that I'm still getting to compile for this last show. So it's not going to be a mishmash. It's going to make sense. The show's going to flow, so to speak. But it's not about that. It's just about everything being different. It's not the same. It's not you and I talking for two and a half hours. It's not. It's just constant changing people's predictions and opinions. And I know you've told me that some are really, really funny. I look forward to that. Right. And the thing that you're going to notice is you're going to see personalities come out in this. You're going to see how somebody approaches something like this. You're going to see people that take this extremely seriously. You're going to see people that are having some fun with it. And you're going to have some people that just are having some backdoor snarky comments and just kind of slapping it around. It's the dynamics are huge and it's fun. And I can't wait to hear it all together because it's actually something that after this gets edited up, I can kind of see me referring back and listening to it maybe a couple of times. Yeah. And honestly, I mean, a lot of this episode has all been a big part was just all Ken putting this together. So he says we, but I have to correct that. No, no, no. This was mostly Ken. This is the Special Elite Pinball Podcast with Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. Yeah, well, Ken's setting it up. But anywho, so, but we look forward to that. It should be a great, great episode. I can't wait to hear you and Dwight just kind of going back and forth on what you're hearing. Well, Dwight's going to be yelling at me and yelling back. Yeah, whatever. 50-50 drinks that day. A lot behind Black Label Pepsi. You know, life will be good. It'll be fun. And then again, in 2019, we start our pinball streaming. So that's another addition. All right, Bill. So it's been a fun episode number 26 of the Special One Lit Pinball Podcast. Great to have you back in the studio, buddy. I missed you last week. Great to be back. Nice to have a couple of two-brother pale pinball beers. Yeah, for sure. In the pale ale studio. Been a good time. we probably need to start increasing the amount of alcohol consumption during the shows maybe kind of livening up maybe that's what we need to do for 2019 is is uh do the show intoxicated you know that might might be uh might be a good time i see how the numbers go everybody grab a beer and uh join us but we do thank two brothers for the sponsorship it's been fun 126 episodes with those guys absolutely absolutely thank you two brothers once again right so for ken cromwell i'm bill webb um have a good morning good afternoon good evening whatever time you're And don't forget to take some time out of your day to play some pinball. So long, everybody. The special when lit pinball podcast is sponsored by Two Brothers Artisan Brewing, makers of pinball pale ale. You're passionate about all things pinball and great tasting craft beer. Two Brothers Artisan Brewing is a firm believer in pursuing your passions. For over 20 years, Two Brothers has had an unparalleled passion for their craft, their customers and their community. Two Brothers Artisan Brewing wants you to follow your passion and drink theirs. you