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Getting Into Pinball? Here's What You Need to Know

Erika's Pinball Journey·video·38m 15s·analyzed·Apr 9, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Premier Pinball operator shares buyer guidance on pricing, valuation, transport, and avoiding first-time collector mistakes.

Summary

Andrew Laners, owner of Premier Pinball Amusements in Minneapolis, discusses the practical realities of entering the pinball hobby with Erika. Topics include pricing expectations ($7,000+ for new games), valuation factors (theme, condition, functionality), transportation best practices, and common first-time buyer mistakes. Laners emphasizes the importance of playtesting games before purchase and understanding hidden maintenance costs of used machines.

Key Claims

  • New inbox pinball machines cost approximately $7,000 or more on average

    high confidence · Andrew Laners, operator of Premier Pinball Amusements

  • Pokémon limited editions are selling above the typical $7,000 new machine price point due to demand

    high confidence · Andrew Laners discussing current market conditions

  • Theme, condition, and functionality are the three primary determinants of used pinball machine value

    high confidence · Andrew Laners explaining value assessment methodology

  • Classic games like Addams Family and Twilight Zone often sell for prices exceeding new machines

    high confidence · Erika and Andrew discussing secondary market pricing for sought-after titles

  • The biggest first-time buyer mistake is purchasing based on theme/hype without playing the game first

    medium confidence · Andrew Laners opinion on buyer behavior

  • Used pinball machines require ongoing maintenance similar to vehicles, with components like flippers or boards potentially failing within 6 months of purchase

    high confidence · Andrew Laners discussing hidden costs of ownership

  • Wide-body pinball machines are significantly heavier than standard models and require more manpower to move

    high confidence · Andrew Laners recounting experience moving various machines

  • A 'shopped out' game includes deep cleaning, new rubbers, lighting upgrades, rebuilt mechanisms, and full testing

    high confidence · Andrew Laners defining industry standard terminology

Notable Quotes

  • “Your budget's $3,000. That's not going to get you a new inbox game, but we can definitely work to get you a solid used, refurbished, shopped-out game.”

    Andrew Laners@ 5:25 — Establishes realistic pricing expectations for entry-level buyers

  • “Theme, condition, and functionality of a game is what determines the value of a game.”

    Andrew Laners@ 8:52 — Core framework for understanding secondary market valuation

  • “Within the first 6 months, you know, I've had a flipper go out. Maybe a board went bad or whatever that may be. That is part of buying a used pinball machine.”

    Andrew Laners@ 26:04 — Sets expectations about maintenance costs and component failures

  • “I often compare these machines to vehicles... the older the vehicle, the more use it's had, probably the more upkeep and maintenance that's going to need.”

    Andrew Laners@ 26:23 — Useful analogy for explaining long-term ownership costs

  • “Buying just based on a theme or the hype of a machine is the biggest mistake... instead of people actually studying the gameplay.”

    Andrew Laners@ 28:22 — Warns against theme-driven impulse purchases without gameplay research

  • “I purchased my Lord of the Rings for a little over $8,000... they don't make it anymore, so that impacts value.”

    Erika@ 7:01 — Illustrates how discontinued games command premium secondary market prices

Entities

Andrew LanerspersonErikapersonPremier Pinball AmusementscompanyPokémon PinballgameLord of the RingsgameAddams FamilygameTwilight ZonegameIndiana Jones

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: New inbox pinball machines consistently priced at approximately $7,000 baseline, with modern LEs (especially Pokémon) commanding significantly higher secondary market prices.

    high · Andrew Laners: 'Yeah, that's on average about seven grand. Um obviously, the Pokémons are going way above that for some of the LEs and things like that'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Pokémon pinball generating strong pre-release FOMO with inflated LE pricing, attracting new demographic to hobby.

    high · Erika: 'I think with this new Pokémon release, oh man, I'm super excited for pinball. I think there's going to be like a huge new group of people joining us'; Andrew noting Pokémon LEs 'going way above' standard $7k pricing

  • $

    market_signal: Discontinued classic games (Addams Family, Twilight Zone, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings) consistently command secondary market prices equal to or exceeding cost of new machines, driven by nostalgia and theme desirability.

    high · Andrew: 'I see them more than new inbox most of the time when I see them priced out'; Erika purchased LOTR for 'a little over $8,000'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Critical transport practices include: securing ball/plastics, protecting head-to-playfield interface, shrink wrapping for weather/impact protection, ratchet straps for head stability, and removal of legs using saw horses.

    high · Andrew detailing multi-step transport safety: 'shrink wrapping the machine... bringing shrink wrap around... ratchet strap will hold that head in place'

  • ?

    product_concern: Used machines present significant maintenance risk. Common failures within 6 months include flipper solenoids, board failures, and component wear despite proper pre-sale inspection.

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:01
What's up, Andrew? Thanks for coming on the show here and talking to me about pinball. Absolutely. Thanks, Erica, for uh let me join the the show. I've been following for a little while now, so it's my pleasure to uh be able to join you and provide some pinball content for everyone. So, thank you so much. Yeah, no problem. Well, uh let's talk about what we're bringing you on here for today. We got some really fun behind-the-scenes pinball questions that we've kind of like been talking about. And so, um yeah, I just want to get us started with like, how did you Who are you and what is uh what is your involvement with pinball? Yeah, so again, my name's Andrew Laners. Um I'm the owner of Premier Pinball Amusements uh located in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So, we do a lot of work in the Minnesota and surrounding states areas, but we do do some work across the country as well. So, mostly buy, sell, uh refurbish, repair, and also transport, and a little bit of rental as well. So, um that's who I am. Again, uh I appreciate you having me on today and uh really looking forward to diving into some of the the questions in the pinball world. So, thank you. Yeah, no problem. So, like, how did you get into pinball? Like, how did you get into this business? So, kind of starts before I actually I get into uh the the pinball world, but um kind of always have been like a long-time um entrepreneur, you know, it ranging back probably in the middle school, high school days. Nothing to do with pinball or arcade at all, but um eventually uh an opportunity presented itself after I graduated college, and I was living at home with my parents. Um actually started with arcade games. Uh ended up being a Big Buck Hunter that you see at all the bars and restaurants. And then um finally kind of worked my way into the pinball world after just receiving some advice and kind of establishing some relationships throughout the the pinball and arcade world. So, I remember that first pinball machine uh I'll never forget was Gottlieb Big Hurt. I bought it without knowing a whole lot about it and then had it sold without knowing a whole lot about it and uh definitely won't forget that experience. So. Oh, man. That's a good game. I haven't played Big Hurt in a while, but I've played it a handful of times at some shows. Uh it's actually it is a super cool game. I'm a big sports guy, big baseball guy. So, um it's kind of a coincidence that that was the first ever machine that I had my hands on, that I actually owned. Um but yeah, just definitely a super cool nostalgic game, but yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell how I got into the pinball world. Um obviously, the more time you spend in the the industry, the more you um establish relationships and kind of learn um about these machines. So, that is again, in a nutshell, how I first got into the pinball industry. So. That's awesome. Very cool. Well, yeah, some Everyone's got a different story on how they got in. So, when it comes to your job with pinball. So, now you are like really in with pinball. You still do stuff with arcades or is it mainly are you mainly pinball now? >> It's it's a it's a nice mix of both, uh

  • “I felt so bad cuz I know that they just bought that machine. They forgot to strap the head on and it just breaks. Very expensive mistake.”

    Erika@ 18:42 — Emphasizes critical importance of proper securing during transport

  • “We've had to literally slide pinball machines upstairs before because there was no other way to do it.”

    Andrew Laners@ 16:30 — Shows real-world complexity of moving machines in older homes with tight spaces

    • game
    Big Hurtgame
    Whitewatergame
    Big Buck Hunterproduct
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Minneapolis-St. Paulvenue
    Erika's Pinball Journeycompany
    Multimorphic P3game

    high · Andrew: 'within the first 6 months, you know, I've had a flipper go out. Um Maybe a board went bad or whatever that may be. That is part of buying a used pinball machine'

  • ?

    community_signal: Emerging debate in community between theme-driven impulse buying (especially with IP licenses like Pokémon) versus gameplay-focused purchasing. Industry operators emphasize gameplay research to prevent buyer regret.

    medium · Andrew advocating gameplay research; Erika countering that personal preference should drive purchase decisions regardless of expert opinion

  • ?

    venue_signal: Breweries, bars, and restaurants serve as primary public playtesting venues for prospective buyers to evaluate machines before purchase.

    high · Andrew: 'come play the game or go play it out on a route somewhere. There's machines everywhere in all these breweries, bars, restaurants'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Older residential areas (early 1900s Minneapolis/St. Paul homes) present acute moving challenges due to low basements, narrow staircases, and tight spaces requiring specialized techniques.

    high · Andrew: 'We've had to literally slide pinball machines upstairs before because there was no other way to do it... low basements and skinny steep stairways'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Wide-body pinball machines significantly heavier than standard machines, requiring additional manpower and specialized moving equipment (stair climbers, dollies).

    high · Andrew: 'every time that I move a wide body, man, those things are crazy heavy'; Erika: 'My multimorphic P3 is probably the heaviest game I've ever moved'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Successful multi-service pinball operators (Premier Pinball model) combine sales, refurbishment, transport, rental, and repair. Hybrid arcade/pinball focus allows cross-selling and broader customer base.

    high · Andrew: 'we do a lot of work... buy, sell, uh refurbish, repair, and also transport, and a little bit of rental as well'; offering to 'expert... with both pinball machines and arcade games'

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball machines maintain secondary market liquidity, allowing buyers to trade/sell unsatisfactory purchases without catastrophic loss, reducing purchase risk.

    high · Erika: 'the biggest thing there is just making sure that you know the market value... if you end up not liking your game, you are able to sell it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Tension between operator/expert recommendations (gameplay focus, price discipline) and collector autonomy. Community acknowledges personal preference trumps expert guidance in purchase decisions.

    high · Erika: 'At the end of the day, I think when you are buying a machine, you should like playing it... I like playing some games that other people don't like playing'

    • 3:18
    It's it's a it's a nice mix of both, uh
    3:18
    It's it's a it's a nice mix of both, uh both pinball machines and arcade games. I like to tell everybody that I try to offer the most products and services to my customers as possible. So, you know, um some people that's pinball machines only, some people that's arcade games only, but you know, I've learned over the years of being in the industry that it's a nice mix. So, I try to my best to be an expert, you know, with both pinball machines and arcade games. So, very busy with both, um but pinball machines um as you know, are you know, they're they're not slowing down and I think they're only gaining popularity as we speak. So. Yeah, I think that it's going to I think with this new Pokémon release, oh man, I'm super excited for pinball. I think there's going to be like a huge new group of people joining us playing games. You and I we kind of discussed a little bit before this interview to kind of figure out what can we do to help provide value to the pinball community. Um what is your like number one thing you encounter when someone wants to buy a machine?
    4:25
    The number one thing that I probably get asked um is probably pricing. Um and that's just such a subjective um question from people. I mean, everybody I I work with a ton of first-time pinball machine buyers. So, um really just educating these folks on what dollar amount can get you what. So, everybody's going to have a different budget. You know, I have people that will message me, email me, whatever. Um what can $500 get you all the way up to my budget, you know, is $15,000. So, as we know, um as you and I know, $500 won't get you much. That might get you a part on a on a pinball machine. Um or a a flooded pinball machine or whatever that may be, but that's not going to get you much, especially working. Um so, that's probably the biggest question, just trying to work with people on educating them, all right, your your budget's $3,000. That's not going to get you a new inbox game, but we can definitely work to get you a a solid um used, refurbished, shopped-out game. Um so, yeah, that's probably my number one question that I get and try to help people with is just educate everyone on you know, what certain prices are going to get you what. You know, what features are going to be included probably in that price range as well. So. Totally. Like, what kind of game you're going to get for that price, whether it's going to be a new game or an older game. Yep. >> Yeah, definitely. Cuz I'd say what, you
    5:57
    Yeah, definitely. Cuz I'd say what, you
    5:57
    Yeah, definitely. Cuz I'd say what, you need at least $7,000 or more to buy a newer game these days, right? Yeah, that's on average about seven grand. Um obviously, the Pokémons are going way above that for some of the LEs and things like that, but yeah, new inbox, you're going to be looking at that. Anything under that, you know, is going to be most likely used and then obviously, a $1,200 EM to a $6,000 used game is going to range quite a bit. So, just educating people on what prices can get you what and what features. What do you think actually determines like uh the value of a game? Is it because it's new or is it because of what era it was? Like, cuz you know, I I purchased a Lord of the Rings for over what a new inbox pinball machine cost when I first got in. And I wasn't sure if I got a good deal um originally on my Lord of the Rings. I just really know I wanted the game and this was the one that was being uh around for me to purchase. Um so, I I purchased my Lord of the Rings for a little over $8,000. Okay. And so, I guess at the time I didn't know how to determine that value, but I know they don't make it anymore, right? So, I guess it's just certain games. How How do you help people determine value on games? That's a great question. I think there's a lot of things um that go into the value um of a game. And um the first off thing that that comes to my mind is the theme of the game, right? So, you're talking Lord of the Rings, we've talked about Pokémon. I think some of these themes are very sought after or we've seen over the years themes that, you know what, this theme isn't so sought after and that definitely impacts the price. And as we speak, all the hype is about Pokémon and we've we were just talking before we jumped on of some of these prices that people are getting for some of these Pokémon LEs just because of the the demand and the theme of the game. So, that's number one that comes to mind. Um I think if it's a used game, it's going to be the condition, 100% the condition. Is this like new, you know, a used game or is it been routed? It's been in the bars, restaurants. It hasn't been taken very good care of, etc. That's a big one. And then the other big one that I often see is functionality. It might be in awesome shape, but maybe it doesn't power on due to the battery leaking acid onto the the board or whatever that may be. Um and does does the game power on first off? Does the game play? Does it just need a shop job? So, it just needs wax and rubbers or does it need a whole new board and whatever that may be? So, there's a lot of different things that go into a value, but in my mind, I think the theme, the condition, and the functionality of a game is what determines the value of a game. So. For sure. And like, how sought after it is. So, cuz I know like uh Addams Family and Twilight Zone are highly priced games from what I see. You can't exactly though they're an older game, they are games that are I guess highly sought after to be like classics, right? And >> Absolutely. those games, I don't know. I
    9:15
    Absolutely. those games, I don't know. I
    9:16
    Absolutely. those games, I don't know. I I see them more than new inbox most of the time when I see them priced out. Same with like Indiana Jones or some of these other games. Yeah. >> interesting how it works like that.
    9:25
    interesting how it works like that.
    9:25
    interesting how it works like that. Yeah, no doubt on that. It uh again, I think those are also some big name themes, right? So, I think some of those themes are nostalgic to some people. The other thing that does come to mind um is also some of like the the bells and whistles that you see on some of these games that maybe other games don't have. So, some of the features that certain games have versus other games that are very basic or lacking features, I think help some of those games as well. So. Totally. >> Yeah, I mean, there are some things you
    9:59
    Yeah, I mean, there are some things you
    9:59
    Yeah, I mean, there are some things you get in in an Adams Family that you don't in some other games, right? Or like a Whitewater and all these other really great classic games. Once you figured out like the value of your game, now you've bought the game, what is Yeah, what is the number one mistake people make while moving these games or like picking them up? Like Yeah, I think for me again, uh it's going to be um not securing the ball, so during transport those balls can break. Um plastics, they can um they can definitely scuff up the playfield and break different mechanisms throughout the game. So, that's a big one. Um I've seen people not put anything between the head of the pinball machine and the playfield. I always like to throw, whether that's cardboard, a blanket, um other people have different methods, but something between there. So, if it is in the back of a pickup truck or if it's an unboxed truck, whatever that may be, trailers, I've seen literally everything, um that it does give the head a little bit of a cushion and then there's no head bouncing off of the um cabinet of the game and then the Yeah, exactly. The the playfield or sorry, the back glass um possibly breaking or even the glass on the um the actual playfield. So, that's another big one um that I've seen as well. What do Do you usually pack stuff in a truck or are you helping put people's games in vans or are you dropping them off? What are the >> Yeah. What's the typical way you you
    11:30
    Yeah. What's the typical way you you
    11:31
    Yeah. What's the typical way you you prefer to transfer a game? Yeah, that's a good question. So, I think everyone had It's kind of funny. I've I've learned to have my own um preferences of transporting and I always suggest it to people. Other people, businesses, or collectors may have their own preferences as well. So, it's kind of funny to see everybody that is in the pinball world how how they maneuver that because everybody kind of seems to have their own tricks, but for me, um I love, like I said, putting cardboard, blankets, um between the head and the playfield. Um something else that works for me is shrink wrapping the machine. So, the head is nice and tight that there's going to be no bounce. And then also bringing shrink wrap around the pinball machine. So, now you have it over and around. Just so, whether that's any elements, I mean, we're dealing with snow and rain up here in Minnesota throughout the winter. Um so, protects it from elements. Um Also just from any wear. So, if it's in a vehicle, if you're bringing it into the house and hitting a wall on accident or whatever that may be, that shrink wrap really helps um protect the actual graphics and cabinet of the game. I've also seen people do blankets. Blankets work well, tarps, um Yeah, moving blankets. I I I myself use a lot of moving blankets and ratchet straps and stuff like that. >> Yes. And I do like I do like the the
    12:59
    Yes. And I do like I do like the the
    12:59
    Yes. And I do like I do like the the wrap, but sometimes when I'm going on a quick job or I'm just kind of moving a game quickly and yeah, um I was going to say ratchet straps are key, too. I like ratchet straps. They secure the head. So, if you are tilting it on the butt of the pinball machine downstairs or something, that ratchet strap will hold that head in place. But they're also even nice if you're tossing it in the back of a vehicle or a a pickup truck that that machine won't move around if you slam on the brakes or something like that, so. Yeah. So, what are your non-negotiable tools then for when it comes to moving a game? So, shrink wrap and and blankets or cardboard? >> Yeah, shrink wrap, blankets, uh those
    13:38
    Yeah, shrink wrap, blankets, uh those
    13:38
    Yeah, shrink wrap, blankets, uh those are definitely on my list. Um What else? Obviously, you got to have a socket set or just an old school wrench to get the the legs off. You can't forget that. If you do, usually the homeowner or the business owner, wherever you're getting it from, um will have those. I've definitely done that before, but you need you're going to need something to get the legs off for sure. Um Finding out if the keys exist, that helps. >> Yes. That's that's a big one. You Yeah,
    14:06
    Yes. That's that's a big one. You Yeah,
    14:06
    Yes. That's that's a big one. You Yeah, the keys are not there, you're going to need a drill to drill out that lock just so you can fold that head down. Mhm. Um and then something that again, we talked about preferences a few minutes ago, something that I've learned to be a preference of mine is just some simple saw horses that you can get at your local hardware store or whatever, so. I like to put the pinball machine up on those saw horses and then you take the legs off. I've seen people do it a million different ways, but that's what I prefer. Just to again, you have the the pinball machine up in the air and then you simply take the legs off and then you can either load it up with manpower or put it on your um dolly or stair climber, which could be another key tool for some people as well, so. What's like the heaviest game you've you feel like you've moved? I feel like JJP games are pretty heavy, right? My multimorphic P3 is probably the heaviest game I've ever >> Yeah, I'm trying to think. I've moved so
    15:03
    Yeah, I'm trying to think. I've moved so
    15:03
    Yeah, I'm trying to think. I've moved so many different games that I don't have one exactly in mind, but every time that I move a a wide body, man, those things are crazy heavy. So, um the wide bodies are just so dang heavy. So, and even just tough to get through doors and all those things. So, I don't have a specific one in mind, but wide bodies definitely come to mind. Got to have that manpower to to lift these games. Or woman power, too, in my case, you know, I Yes, absolutely. Um Do you have you had any like really crazy like So, do you you go out and buy games from people, too, to like sell and fix or like you pick them up? >> time, yeah. So, finding those online or
    15:44
    time, yeah. So, finding those online or
    15:44
    time, yeah. So, finding those online or people coming to me, um and yeah, we're in we're in all sorts of situations as you've probably seen and the listeners and viewers have probably seen. Um I mean, anywhere from million-dollar homes to the dustiest basement basements you can imagine, you know. Um old 100-year-old homes with the steep skinny stairways, low ceilings, so. I think um you talk about tricky situations to remove and I think again, those We're we're in the Twin Cities here in Minnesota, so all the older homes like in Minneapolis, St. Paul, you know, built in the early 1900s with those low basements and skinny steep stairways. We've had to literally slide pinball machines upstairs before because there was no other way to do it and I'll never forget those and my back was hurting and and all the things, but yeah, I think the sketchiest weirdest ways we've removed is probably legit sliding pinball machines on the bottom of them with no legs up stairways with one guy pulling them up because there was just no other way to do it, so. Uh Always a way. If they got it down there, there's a way to get it out, but sometimes you question why the heck they they got them down there, so. How did they even get down there? Yeah. Me, pinball and stairs are like my least favorite. Um they don't work really well in my opinion. But >> No. sometimes, you know, if you have
    17:15
    No. sometimes, you know, if you have
    17:15
    No. sometimes, you know, if you have stairs and you want pinball, you got to you got to work around it. Yeah, and that's one thing that we you know, someone wants a pinball or someone's selling a pinball, you got to you got to figure it out, so. I think that's if if you're a one-man show or one-woman show, I should say, um you know, and there's no other help manpower-wise, you know, those those stair climbers that they sell so many different places are selling those these days are so nice and I've seen so many people use those where you just all it takes is one person and >> Oh, yeah. Escalators.
    17:48
    Oh, yeah. Escalators.
    17:48
    Oh, yeah. Escalators. >> Yeah, they're super nice, so. Yeah. But
    17:51
    Yeah, they're super nice, so. Yeah. But
    17:51
    Yeah, they're super nice, so. Yeah. But if you don't have them, make sure when you buy pinball machines you have a friend, right? Absolutely. You're going to need some manpower for sure, so. >> Yeah. Otherwise, it gets uh it gets
    18:01
    Yeah. Otherwise, it gets uh it gets
    18:01
    Yeah. Otherwise, it gets uh it gets tough. Um Have you ever I've been to a show one time where um So, talking about uh sk- I wasn't sk- sketchy or anything. I feel so bad with transport. I had seen uh someone drop the the head. They forgot to ratchet on the head of a game. Folded it up. And then they they tipped it over and the head just went and just just completely busted. And I I felt so bad cuz I know that they just bought that machine. I was at a show. Everyone's leaving, taking their games home, and this person just bought this new pin and they forgot to strap the head on and it just breaks. It's so heartbreaking. I mean, it's fixable, but Yes, very expensive mistake. Um Yeah, you definitely I mean, that's the thing, there's so many different um things that you got to make sure when you're transporting these um or even repairing them, moving them around, that you got to make sure is locked in, secure. Otherwise, you know, these parts or back glasses or heads, whatever it may be, they're expensive. They're not cheap, so. Do you have a checklist? I I've seen a lot of people use a checklist and I quite frankly should have my own checklist, I think. Just based off experience now, I kind of know how to go through it from start to finish and make sure that it is secure before transporting, but I've definitely made mistakes along the way where you nick up a game cuz you tried taking a shortcut or I I broke a back glass once because it wasn't locked in. That's a $300 mistake on that machine, you know, so. You got to I think what I've learned is just take a deep breath, um take your time, and just go about it logically. Otherwise, again, you make one one mistake that could be a really expensive mistake with this with these games, so. Yeah, with moving pinball machines in and around. Yeah, I definitely wish I made a checklist for the last time I moved a game around. I forgot the keys. Don't remember where I placed the keys, so we had to we had to bust in that machine, break the lock because the keys were lost. >> to me way too often. There's just way
    20:17
    to me way too often. There's just way
    20:17
    to me way too often. There's just way too many keys and yeah, try to always keep the keys. I like just keeping them right in the the front door and then the the back glass um back box keys in the coin door per usual um where you often will find the back glass keys, so yeah, kind of a little trick there. That's nice. Yeah, but that they have that, the extra ones. So, um we mentioned uh a bit earlier or like you had mentioned a bit earlier uh shopped out. Do you want to explain what a shopped out game is to people that might not know what that means? Yeah, I think that's a great question especially for um starters and beginners in pinball machines. I had no idea what that meant when people were talking about that when I first got into the industry. I think that it's a little subjective. Everybody's shopped out might be a little bit different, but I think in a nutshell um shopped out means that machines have been cleaned and serviced uh which usually typically is a deep playfield cleaning, new rubbers, um light bulbs or um possibly LED lights installed in the game. Mechanisms have been rebuilt or adjusted and everything has been tested and is ready uh to be played, so in a nutshell just everything throughout the machine has been gone through and is 100% working as it should be. There's no shortcuts. There's nothing that does not work as it should be, so is that kind of what you um envision as shopped out as well or do you have any Yeah, I'd say like a shopped out game to me is like fully working and it's been cleaned um and yeah, all the light bulbs should be on cuz if you are talking about like an older game, uh yeah, sometimes bulbs go out, but a lot of the newer games, you know, they those lights last for a really long time. And if they are out, there might be something wrong with the board, right? So >> Exactly. um
    22:18
    Exactly. um
    22:18
    Exactly. um But that's from games that are past like what time? Uh you have probably any of the newer games with like a LCD screen, right? Yeah, so all those newer Stern and games like you're usually not having to replace those bulbs like you said, but often times when we're doing, you know, games all the way back to EMs through '80s, '90s, 2000s, that's when, you know, we do a lot of LED replacements or even if you're going to choose that the the old school yellow lights in them, you know, a lot of those bulbs are often out when you shop the game out, so. Is that mostly you? So, for your business, do you do a lot of shopping out or do you have an assistant and someone that does it or do you like like to do it cuz it's maybe like >> Yeah, good question.
    23:03
    Yeah, good question.
    23:03
    Yeah, good question. Um I am more so I love to buy, sell, connect with the customers, um help kind of navigate what that customer is wanting, whether that's a new pinball machine, a service, a transportation, so I like working with the customer on that on that aspect. As far as technician stuff, I do have multiple technicians that help me out with whether that's in-house calls or just in the shop. Otherwise, if I was doing all the work, I wouldn't be able to keep up with all the the requests and needs of all the customers, so yeah, in that aspect, it's more so others kind of assisting me, but I do like to you know, be hands-on with um picking games up, delivering games, transporting games and just so I can have a um kind of a a presence with the customer and like actually be involved somewhat and not just have others doing that work for me, so. Yeah, you get a chance to like talk to them one-on-one and understand like what their needs are, right? And like where it's going and they had you >> Exactly. Build that relationship.
    24:13
    Exactly. Build that relationship.
    24:13
    Exactly. Build that relationship. Totally. No, I I I get that too from when I used to uh I used to shoot a lot of events and and things and so it was something I really liked doing too was like talking to the people I directly made the deal with and being like, "Hey, what are we doing here?" And and it helps just put face to a business, right? So >> Exactly. Yep, grow those relationships
    24:34
    Exactly. Yep, grow those relationships
    24:34
    Exactly. Yep, grow those relationships um for the future and I'm a people person, so just really listening to the the customers on what they need and delivering that service and product and it's a win-win for everybody then, so. Yeah. So, when it comes to now we're I guess what we can segue into um like fixing games, right? What are some like hidden costs of pinball that people like overlook? Like now you you've bought your new machine, you've brought it home, what what else can you expect from this game? That's a good question. I think it's all depends on like what machine did you buy? So, are you buying a brand new in box Pokémon that's, you know, going to be coming out here in 2026 or are you buying a, you know, an EM from the '70s or, you know, a solid state game from the '80s or '90s or early 2000s? Um that's such a subjective question, so I think I'm going to more so stick to the the used um games just because I don't see a ton of hidden costs for the um the new in box games at least in the near future. Maybe 10 down 10 years down the road that might be a little bit different, but I'll stick with the used machines and that's just really the maintenance. Um I I think there's so many people that are either interested in buying or they're looking to buy or maybe they just bought and they did buy a used machine and it's like, "Well, within the first 6 months, you know, I've had a flipper go out. Um Maybe a board went bad or whatever that may be." And it's like, you know, that is part of buying a used pinball machine. I often compare these machines to um vehicles and just, you know, the older the vehicle, the more use it's had, probably the more upkeep and maintenance that's going to need when you do purchase that or when you do start using that machine or or vehicle um in this matter. So, I think it's really the maintenance and just knowing that, "Hey, you know, just because I'm buying a shopped out pinball machine doesn't mean that this thing's going to last 20 years." Now, I definitely always hear stories of like, "Hey, I haven't had to do a whole lot of to this machine in the last 10 to 15 years." And that's awesome, but I always tell people to expect to do some sort of maintenance um moving forward, whether that's hopefully not within the next 6 months, but maybe the next few years. And that also depends on how much use that machine is getting as well, so. Totally. Yeah, no, this is awesome and thank you so much for like being able to dive in. So, we talked a little bit about like what it's like to uh choose buying a new game, transporting one, um maintenance, looking into that. Um what do you what do you feel like with all of this is one of the biggest mistakes you see first-time buyers make most of the time? Um I think the biggest mistake that I see people um buying is just buying just strictly on a theme or like even the hype of a game and not actually playing it or studying the gameplay. Um I often tell people to either A, come play the game or go play it out on a route somewhere. There's machines everywhere in all these breweries, bars, restaurants or just simply looking at these YouTube videos that, you know, from tournaments or people, you know, owners that have that machine and upload their gameplay, so you can truly see what that game offers gameplay-wise, feature-wise um etc. So, again, I think buying just based on a theme or the hype of a of a machine is the biggest mistake that I see instead of people actually studying kind of the gameplay and looking at it on YouTube or even just going to play the game for themselves because you can tell from experience in the first 5 to 10 minutes if people are interested in the gameplay of a game or not, so just because the graphics and the theme looks super cool, the game might not be appealing to that owner or the maybe that homeowner's family or whoever is going to be using the game, so. Oh, for sure. So, you think for like not even picking up a theme cuz I guess now like, you know, you're going to have some people pick up Pokémon because they love Pokémon um and oh, I guess I guess I might differ I might differ with you on this opinion you have here for a big mistake for a first-time buyer. I guess for me like I think when it comes to first-time buyer mistakes I see is like, yeah, maybe people not buying like paying overpaying for a game because they didn't realize like like someone trying to pay $40,000 for uh an LE of some sort uh depending on which one it is could be really big mistake. Yeah, and I totally see what you're saying, too, and I I actually don't even disagree with that. I I really think it's every buyer and situation is different, so you know, some people buying let's just stick with the Pokémon as that's kind of what's hot right now like that definitely applies to this situation where people are definitely going to be buying Pokémon, some people just for the theme. I'm more so talking on um maybe like that first-time pinball buyer or a family where they bought it cuz the graphics look super cool or whatever, and then they get it home um and then the gameplay is just not exactly what they were looking for. It's not enough features or maybe it's too many features. So, I think it really just does depend on the the buyer, the situation, and and the game, really. So, I can see both sides, but from what I've seen is maybe someone just casually thinks the game looks super cool, they buy it, and they're like, "You know what? This wasn't actually what we're looking for." So, Totally. Yeah, I have people ask me about games all the time, and I think it at the end of the day, I think when you are buying a machine, you should like playing it. And whether or not someone else likes playing it or not, that's that's on them. Like, I like playing some games that other people don't like playing, and um it all depends on what you want. Someone was like, "Oh, I have the option to buy this game or this game. Which one should I buy?" And they're asking my opinion, and I'm just kind of like, "Well, I don't really care for either of the two games that you're going to purchase." So, it really should be what you want. Um but I also feel like what's really kind of nice in the pinball world, too, is that if you end up not liking your game, you are able to sell it, right? Like, it's not the end of the world to buy a game and then trade it, uh sell it. Uh I know maybe if you're interested in buying games, people buy a game, they can sell it to you, or you make they make it as a listing, and eventually you find it. Um 100%. Like you said, the biggest thing there is just making sure that you know the market value and that you're not completely overpaying unless that's what you want to do for that specific game. So, that would be another mistake. And that's Yeah, that's the other tricky thing when you start getting into buying and selling is just making sure that you're not overpaying, and if you are overpaying, that you're okay with it, etc. So, >> Yeah. I guess uh I typically uh I
    32:08
    Yeah. I guess uh I typically uh I
    32:08
    Yeah. I guess uh I typically uh I typically check in with my community and the people around me about prices for games now whenever I'm like interested in buying something. Um but I also go to Pinside. Would you recommend Pinside for the market? >> Yeah, absolutely love Pinside. I think
    32:22
    Yeah, absolutely love Pinside. I think
    32:22
    Yeah, absolutely love Pinside. I think um Pinside is my number one resource. I love Pinside. I just love that it shows, you know, um low end, high end, the median range. It shows at current ads, archived ads. Um it shows all the features of the game. So, Pinside is an absolute great resource for, you know, whether it's a collector all the way down to a a first-time pinball buyer. I think it does have a very um real uh price range, and, you know, a a good market value. I I think Pinside is really what helps set the pinball pricing to this day in the pinball world. So, I think most people, whether that's operators, um businesses like myself, homeowners, really look at Pinside to help determine the value. Now, you got to be able to navigate Pinside where sometimes the ranges on there navigate quite a bit, um and first-time pinball sellers or buyers, whatever that may be, um don't understand those ranges. So, sometimes people will be asking for thousands of dollars more than what their game's actually worth. So, you got to be able to navigate that and find comparable prices and understand why your game's either on the low end, the medium, and or maybe your game is on the high end because it's in great shape, and it Yeah. fires right up and plays. So, it is a great resource, though. Yeah, no, I I would say that's definitely where I go to for prices, and I look at that, and then I ask my community, I'm like, "Okay, so this game I'm interested in, I see it's selling for this much. Do you think that's too much?" Cuz I I I think that was definitely one of my I think I wouldn't say it was complete mistake. I would say I maybe slightly overpaid, but at the end of the day, too, I was really happy to purchase the game when I did. Um and there was a game that I purchased that later I saw was listed lower on Pinside cuz I didn't really know that it existed. Um and yeah, I'll be sure to link I'll be sure to link Pinside below. Um I really only go for the market and to look at uh like games and their facts. Um there are like other parts of Pinside I typically just like avoid just cuz of all the drama that I hear. Um I do like reading some of the stories. Uh when I first started in pinball, I put some stories out on Pinside. Uh maybe I can share them one day with everybody, but um yeah, uh at the end of the day, you know, what do you uh what do you feel like makes this hobby worth it? What is what is the the thing that keeps drawing you back to pinball that makes you want to stay here? >> Yeah. That's a great question. I think
    35:10
    Yeah. That's a great question. I think
    35:10
    Yeah. That's a great question. I think for me, I'm going to go back to again, just the people. You know, I'm a people person, so at the end of the day, everybody um listening and um involved in pinball loves playing pinball. Um I think the community that, you know, pinball brings together, whether that's, you know, me in Minnesota, you out in California. This is a great example, but even just around the world. I know we were talking earlier that you've connected with people in other countries across way across the seas. So, um I think the people that I get to, you know, do stuff like this with, such as yourself, and just connect with you out in the other side of the country, but also even just the people here that I work daily with in Minnesota and throughout the Midwest often. Um and really getting to know those people, build relationships with those people, and um as, you know, as far as I've been able to, you know, make great friends throughout the community and people that I hang out with, and um you know, eat even socialize with outside of the world of pinball. So, I think in a nutshell, um just the people in the community that pinball brings across, you know, whether that's the state, the country, or even the world. So, Yeah, no, this community in pinball has been has literally changed my life. So, I I wouldn't be where I am right now without this community. So, I I really appreciate you reaching out and that we got a chance to connect and kind of share some stories. Hopefully, some good insight for people that are new into pinball. Um and maybe good insight for people that already have been in the hobby. Uh and well, thank you so much, Andrew, for joining me and talking with me about this thing that we love. >> [laughter and clears throat]
    37:03
    [laughter and clears throat]
    37:03
    [laughter and clears throat] >> Absolutely.
    37:04
    Absolutely.
    37:04
    Absolutely. Yeah. >> Thanks so much for having me on. I
    37:06
    Thanks so much for having me on. I
    37:06
    Thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. Uh I look forward to continuing to watch your journey, and I hope to meet you in person here at one of the shows in the near future. So, >> be awesome. Definitely. Yeah, I would
    37:17
    be awesome. Definitely. Yeah, I would
    37:17
    be awesome. Definitely. Yeah, I would love to meet you in person, as well. And is there anything you want to plug, though, for your business before we sign off? Yeah, um again, for those people uh in the Midwest, um I would love to be a resource. Um you know, whether that's on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, even my website has my cell phone number on there. So, you can visit my website ppamn.com. Would love to connect with any of you guys. Um and also, we'll have a a book coming out um in the near future about some of this stuff that we talked about today, too. So, make sure to check that out here uh hopefully later in 2026. So, Cuz it's awesome. Well, congratulations on that. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, be sure to let me know when it happens. I'll be sure to put his website in the link below, you guys, so if you want to check it out, um and some of your other social plugs. But yeah, thank you so much, Andrew, for joining me today on this, and um yeah. It's great having you. >> Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I
    38:13
    Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I
    38:13
    Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.