Episode 1079: "My Feelings on Kong & Dune"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 51s·analyzed·Apr 16, 2025

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Kaneda criticizes King Kong's cluttered art and missing Empire State Building mech; defends critical pinball discourse.

Summary

Kaneda delivers a critical, passionate monologue on King Kong and Dune, arguing that King Kong's playfield is visually cluttered and lacks iconic theme elements (notably the Empire State Building mech), while praising Dune's worm mechanism but questioning theme appeal. He criticizes Stern for operating in a vacuum, using a formulaic 'Stern blender' approach regardless of IP, and contrasts this with Jersey Jack's superior theming execution on Harry Potter. Kaneda defends his right to criticize without receiving backlash from the pinball community and argues that neither King Kong nor Dune generate genuine FOMO.

Key Claims

King Kong playfield is too visually busy and cluttered with colors that don't match the theme—resembles X-Men or Avengers rather than iconic King Kong.
high confidence · Kaneda, extended monologue comparing Kong to Jaws playfield design and discussing color palette issues
King Kong should have featured the Empire State Building as a major mech/centerpiece, not a repurposed Hulk mech from Avengers.
high confidence · Kaneda, multiple references throughout the episode arguing this was the missed opportunity
Stern Pinball did not license any assets from King Kong film archive, unlike Godzilla which licensed extensively.
high confidence · Kaneda, direct statement: 'Stern Pinball didn't license any assets from any of the Kong movies'
Godzilla received a more impressive mechanism than King Kong despite King Kong being a more mechanically iconic IP.
medium confidence · Kaneda comparing the two titles and asserting Godzilla has the better mech design
Dune's worm mech is more impressive than anything in King Kong, Evil Dead, or most recent pinball machines.
high confidence · Kaneda praising Barrels of Fun: 'that worm mech is more impressive than anything in King Kong'
Neither King Kong nor Dune generate genuine FOMO in the pinball community; players don't feel pressure to buy immediately.
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'I don't think most of you feel like either of these games are going to be hard to get'
Harry Potter will outsell King Kong significantly due to superior theming execution and broader appeal.
medium confidence · Kaneda predicting Jersey Jack's Harry Potter will be 'the champion of this round of new pinball games easily'
Stern operating without focus groups or outside input, creating an insular 'vacuum' that leads to repetitive design decisions.
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'this is the problem with Stern right now...these guys are living in a vacuum'

Notable Quotes

“I think both King Kong and Dune look like a lot of fun to play...I also feel zero desire to buy either game. Are you not allowed in the modern pinball world to hold those two opposing points of view?”
Kaneda @ ~0:30 — Core thesis—establishes the tension Kaneda is addressing: playability vs. desirability, and the pressure to conform opinions in the community
“It's like King Kong looks like X-Men and Avengers had a baby...like screaming at all of our eyeballs everything louder than everything else.”
Kaneda @ ~3:00 — Vivid criticism of color and visual design choices; illustrates the 'Stern blender' complaint
“How do you make a King Kong game where the major mech in the game is not the Empire State Building?”
Kaneda @ ~2:45 — Central design critique—identifies the single biggest missing element from the game
“When I look at the colors in this game, I don't see Art Deco New York City. I don't see a jungle. I don't know what I see...These colors look more like Pandora than anything from the world of King Kong.”
Kaneda @ ~4:30 — Demonstrates thematic disconnect; argues the art package contradicts the IP identity
“Stern Pinball didn't license any assets from any of the Kong movies. Talk about cheap, ladies and gentlemen.”
Kaneda @ ~6:45 — Factual claim about licensing strategy; contrasts with Godzilla; supports value/cost criticism
“You put everything in the blender of Stern and you get this. Lots of purples, lots of blues, lots of colors, regardless of what the theme is.”
Kaneda @ ~5:00 — Defines the 'Stern blender' concept—the core industry criticism driving the monologue
“I don't think Jersey Jack is nervous at all. I think Harry Potter is going to be the champion of this round of new pinball games easily.”
Kaneda @ ~12:00 — Prediction about relative competitive success; implies Jersey Jack's theming superiority

Entities

Kanedaperson Keith Elwinperson King Konggame DunegameStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany Barrels of Fun

Signals

?
design_philosophy: Kaneda argues King Kong violates thematic authenticity by using generic 'Stern blender' visual language (purple, blue, magenta) rather than iconic Kong imagery (Art Deco NYC, jungle, Empire State Building)
high · Extended comparison of Kong playfield colors to Jaws (which successfully directs eye to thematic elements) and Pandora (wrong IP colors); assertion that Kong should be black-and-white, art deco, 1932s aesthetic
?
design_innovation: Dune's worm mech praised as superior to King Kong's repurposed Hulk mech and most recent pinball mechanisms, suggesting differentiation in mechanical design execution across manufacturers
high · Kaneda: 'that worm mech is more impressive than anything in King Kong, than anything in Evil Dead, than anything I've seen in most recent pinball machines'
?
licensing_signal: Stern did not license any assets from King Kong film archive, contrasting sharply with Godzilla's extensive licensing; Kaneda frames this as 'cheap' given premium pricing
high · Direct statement and explicit comparison: 'Stern Pinball didn't license any assets from any of the Kong movies...Look at Godzilla. It's got everything from the Godzilla film archive'
?
product_concern: King Kong playfield criticized as overly busy with excessive inserts and layered art, making it difficult for player eye to focus on shots or navigate the playfield
high · Multiple descriptions: 'way too busy,' 'way too cluttered,' 'seizure inducing,' 'I don't even know what to focus on'; comparison to Jaws where eye flow is clear
?
product_concern: Dune's code appears incomplete at launch; software described as feeling 'really early on' despite mechanical quality; pattern of Stern shipping incomplete code to maintain production line

Topics

King Kong playfield design and visual aestheticsprimaryTheme authenticity and licensing in modern pinball designprimaryStern Pinball design philosophy and 'Stern blender' formula criticismprimaryDune game mechanics (worm mech) vs. theme appealprimaryCommunity pressure and suppression of critical voices in pinballprimaryFOMO dynamics and secondary market pricing trendssecondaryJersey Jack vs. Stern product differentiation and theming executionsecondaryGame code completeness at launch across manufacturerssecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.72)— Kaneda is critical of King Kong's design choices and Stern's approach, though he expresses respect for mechanical execution and acknowledges both games are fun to play. He defends his right to hold critical opinions against community pressure. Overall tone is frustrated, disappointed, and combative (self-described 'coming in hot'). Mild positive sentiment toward Dune's mechanism and Jersey Jack's approach. No strong positive sentiment regarding the primary products.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.063

Good morning and welcome to Canada's Pinball Podcast. I'm about to drop it. I'm coming in hot, everybody, because I just want to do a show that I think needs to be said, and I don't think anyone else is going to talk like this because I feel this tremendous pressure by the pinball armies that are out there. to just universally support anything if it's done by Keith Elwin. We've got a champion, all new pinball machines. And look, I just want to start this show out by saying this. I think both King Kong and Dune look like a lot of fun to play. I can't wait to go play both of these games. They're going to get to automated pinball 30 minutes from me, probably in the next month or so, and I can't wait to play them. They both look fun in different ways, and I also feel zero desire to buy either game. Are you not allowed in the modern pinball world to hold those two opposing points of view? But I'm also allowed to have opinions, And I've noticed this. The more you have an opinion that isn't just favorable to what these companies work on, everybody comes at you with the pitchforks. And I just want to say this. I grew up in a family where my mother, who is the most artistic person I've ever met, she has an art gallery. You don't know this. My mom met my father at Bristol Myers Squibb. She ran the art department. She came up with the logos for Bristol Myers, Claire all bottles of shampoo and conditioner. She has an art gallery for decades. And I'm telling you right now, you might argue with my Gucci style and whatnot, but I can look at that King Kong play field and I can say that's way too busy. It's way too cluttered. It's got way too much colors going on for a theme like King Kong. And then you say that and everybody wants to jump down your throat. Like you can't say that about these pinball artists and these legends. Why not? My eyes have seen King Kong movie posters over the years. The iconic stuff that people spend six figures on. those original Kong movie posters, I know what iconic King Kong looks like. And it's not this. And so yeah, there's some cool stuff happening in the game, but I'm allowed to look at this game and just say, hey, to me, that's not King Kong. When I think of King Kong, what is the most iconic thing he's known for? It's on the cabinet artwork, but it's nowhere in the physical game. How do you make a King Kong game where the major mech in the game is not the Empire State Building? How do you not have King Kong on the other side of that large top of the Empire State Building? He should have swung around like Balrog. There should have been airplanes flying around moving under the glass on top of that Empire State Building. He should have picked up the ball with his hands and thrown it somehow, how do you not have any of that, nope, you just repurposed the Hulk mech from Avengers, that's all that's going on there, ladies and gentlemen, and I'm just here to tell you, beyond that, Kong, I'm like looking at it right now, and it looks like, it's like King Kong looks like X-Men and Avengers had a baby, it's like, come on, I get it, like, you want to make it pop, you want to make it colorful and boy oh boy did you succeed but at what cost this thing is like screaming at all of our eyeballs everything louder than everything else I'm looking at a picture of the play field and there's just like so much happening to the point where like you don't know what to focus on and look these are very talented artists but you can't tell me that somewhere in this artistic line of geniuses of pinball, nobody says, hey man, this looks a little busy. This looks a little bit like it's too much. Like when there's so much happening with so much color exploding all over a pinball machine, your eyes don't know what to focus on. And I'm sorry, I just don't like it. To me, King Kong should have been approached differently. I think they should have looked at a little bit more of the iconic King Kong that everybody knows and loves. And also, it so weird to me that Stern marketing is like this game pays homage to the Data East game where only six of them were made Why Why Nobody thinks fondly of some crappy Data East prototype game that never got made And so that becomes your design inspiration for this King Kong. And it just goes to show you, ladies and gentlemen, this is the problem with Stern right now. It's the problem with Pinball. These guys are living in a vacuum and they're doing everything for themselves. It's like inside baseball and they need to step out. This is not iconic Kong, all right? It's not. It looks like King Kong met up with like Xavier in the wheelchair and decided to join the X-Men and you get this colorful comic book looking King Kong pinball machine. And look, that's fine. And look, again, I'm not upset really about it. I'm just saying this isn't what I would have done. When I look at the colors in this game, I don't see Art Deco New York City. I don't see a jungle. I don't know what I see. I don't know anything in nature that explodes with this much purple, blue, yellow, magenta. Like, I don't know what this is. These colors look more like Pandora than anything from the world of King Kong. And yet you have to say you like it. Or John Ehrlich will come for you saying you're the most negative guy in pinball. Sorry, John. Sorry. Some of us don't make money off of the pinball machines we buy. Some of us actually lose money. Thousands of dollars, John. All right. So go buy a King Kong, John. Put it on location. And you're going to buy the Pro, which is half the price of the damn LE. And it's going to be a moneymaker for you. You know I love you, brother. I'm going to come to Jack Bar. And I'm going to do what I always do and leave a big tip at the bar. But look, for some reason, everybody acts like you need to be on the side of Elwin and his team. And sure, this game is going to shoot great. This game is going to have great code and it's going to be fun. But that doesn't take away the big issue I see happening at Stern Pinball. It's just feeling like everything is the same. It's like this company can't step outside the box and make different decisions. It's like the same look and feel over and over and over again. It's like instead of looking at King Kong, instead of looking at its world and what is iconic in its world, they're putting it into the Stern blender. And that's what it's all starting to feel like. You put everything in the blender of Stern and you get this. Lots of purples, lots of blues, lots of colors, regardless of what the theme is. The inserts in this game are absolutely ridiculous. I mean, I'm looking at a playfield image and the amount of inserts almost make it impossible to have like a nice easy on the eyes art package in this game. They managed to layer art on top of this barrage of inserts and make it even more cluttered. I don't know like what came first. I'm not even sure the order like did they do the inserts first and then the art package or I think they probably did it the other way around. I don't know. I don't care. I'm looking down at the game right now, and I don't even know how to process it. Again, it's probably going to shoot well. But boy, oh boy, oh boy, after seeing King Kong, it makes me long for a much simpler art package like Jaws. Because if you think about the Jaws art package and it's the ocean, what happens, right? Your eye is drawn to the things that you are going to shoot. and your eye moves up the playfield towards the boats, towards the orca, towards the fishing reel, towards the shark fin mech area. I don't even know what to look at in this game. I mean, you've got the gong, which seemingly looks like it's blocking the subway car, which is behind it. Then you got Kong in the upper right corner hanging out where Stay Puff used to be, and he's just going up and down with his arms. I like the fact that the balls lock into the subway car. I like the fact that he knocks it and it flips up in the air. I like all of that. The spider with the magnet, that doesn't seem very creative at all. And there's no Empire State Building whatsoever. I'm just going to stop right there. How do you make Godzilla and King Kong? And if I were to ask you in a blind survey, which theme should have an impressive building that becomes the talk of the game. Would you ever have said Godzilla? No. King Kong is the theme that should have the big building that everybody's talking about. It should have been the Empire State Building that gets taller and taller as King Kong is ascending towards the top of the building. I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen. I'm allowed to feel this way. I'm allowed to say that this is what happens when you stop doing any focus groups. You don't bring anybody in. I mean most of us could have walked into Stern Pinball and said what are you doing George and Keith Where the Empire Staples What are you doing with this color People are saying it looks like a clown vomited all over the game It hard to argue against those people. I didn't say it. That's what people are saying on Pinside. But boy, oh boy, oh boy, I feel like this company is at the point now where you need to start bringing in some outside opinions to make some changes to these games. And so that's where I'm at on King Kong. I think it's a game that's going to shoot really well. I think aesthetically it's all over the place. I don't even know how to get my head around it. I've watched the video like eight times. It still is like seizure inducing when John Youssi how much is in the game. I don't think it works. Again, I don't. I think if you have that opinion, get ready to be attacked by the Stern Army. And I also think the Ellie of this game is not like, I have to have it. The Art Deco armor on the game doesn't make any sense with the comic book style coloring happening everywhere else in the game. If it was much more 1932s, beautiful, classic New York City skyline, beautiful Art Deco, I would have been all over this game. This game should have looked like that. If they went all in on old Kong with black and white animations, art deco everywhere, you know, the original top to the Empire State Building, like the original Kong movie. People would have been all over it. And the one major thing missing from this entire game, Stern Pinball didn't license any assets from any of the Kong movies. Talk about cheap, ladies and gentlemen. So they spent zero money licensing anything from the King Kong film archive. Look at Godzilla. It's got everything from the Godzilla film archive. Godzilla's got the more impressive mechanisms in the game. So you're telling me that when Godzilla came out for $10,500 and gave you everything a Godzilla fan could want and more, and now we're spending 30% more on a King Kong LE, they licensed nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for everybody to wake up I think we have woken up and I think they need to stop like this doesn't work anymore it doesn't work at these prices and I don't think people are gonna fall for it and I will arm wrestle anybody out there who's gonna tell me that King Kong shouldn't have the more impressive building mech than God freaking Zilla Godzilla should have had Godzilla breathing fire. It doesn't. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry, but shots and art are not the new toys and some of these games need to be approached and the themes need to be developed onto the game that are paying homage to what that theme is iconic for. And you can't just throw everything in a stern blender and get an X-Men like looking game regardless of the theme. Thank you for being a member of Canada's Pinball Podcast. Nobody else talks like this because they can't because they still want to get the damn invites. I don't care about those invites. I'd rather be having lobster rolls at Rowaden Seafood and being able to speak my mind freely. Let's go on to Dune. Man, that mech is awesome. The mech is freaking awesome. That is one of the coolest mechs I've seen in pinball in a long time. Now, one mech doesn't sell you a game. I was watching the gameplay footage of Dune. I can't tell really where the code is in this game. It still feels really early on. It doesn't feel like this game's ready to be launched right now. I think the reason they need to launch it now, they need to get the line going. I understand it. Stern Pinball has made a career shipping games before the code is done. Okay, so Dune is out now too. And it's another one where like, unlike King Kong, I think both of these themes, I got to be honest, both of these themes are not great for pinball. So I think both of these themes, a lot of us are like, oh, you know, I'm not dying to own this theme. There's a lot of you out there too that are not dying to own Harry Potter. I've been saying this for weeks. The one theme that most men 40 to 60 actually are attracted to the most out of these four games coming out is Predator. We all know Predator is going to be probably horrendous. It's probably not going to have Arnold. You're not allowed to talk like this, Chris. Look, it's probably going to be the truth. And Harry Potter is also another one where most of you are not watching Harry Potter movies. You're not reciting the lines. It's going to win out, right? Now we know this is Kong. I don't think Jersey Jack is nervous at all. I think Harry Potter is going to be the champion of this round of new pinball games easily. And they're gonna sell so many more Harry Potters than Stern is gonna sell of King Kong. It's just the way it's gonna go, people. Times have changed, but Jersey Jack must be feeling really good seeing King Kong yesterday because I think Harry Potter unlike Kong they gonna translate that theme perfectly into a beautiful pinball game I don think anyone going to look down at Harry Potter and see Rainbow Puke going on I think Jersey Jack has heard that feedback and Potter's not going to be Rainbow Puke. Alright, so Dune though, right? Dune's a hard game for me to like figure out. Like I want to play it. That mechanism is really cool. Other than that mechanism, am I seeing a ton of other stuff? Not sure yet, right? I'm not seeing a ton of other stuff, but I do love that mechanism. But I'm just worried again that it's not a theme that most of you want. I'm not sure you're seeing enough to pull the trigger. And I think the software is really going to be critical on whether or not Dune is a game you're going to want. Because on just theme alone, that's a no. But look at Evil Dead, right? Most of you do not love the Evil Dead movies the way the spooky folks do. But look at the Evil Dead game they made. And they overcame a lot of people's skepticism, mine included, by delivering one of the most beautiful packed games in a long time that's just a lot of pinball fun. It's really campy. It's really fun. And it's loaded with stuff. And so will Dune be able to do that? will the software, you know, it's got a better mech. Trust me, that worm mech is more impressive than anything in King Kong, than anything in Evil Dead, than anything I've seen in most recent pinball machines. So kudos to you guys over at Barrels of Fun. But again, it's a mech that's inside a theme that most people don't want. If that was your flux capacitor mech, it'd be a different story. If that was your Nakatomi mech in Die Hard, different story. You know what I mean, everybody? It's like, it matters. Like, theme really matters. And I think we're at a point now why we're all excited that two new games came out in one day. I don't think most of you opened up your wallet. I don't think most of you feel like either of these games are going to be hard to get. And I think most of you are like me. You want to play them. You were excited that new pinball machines came out. We're all excited to see this stuff, but you don't feel FOMO. You don't feel the pressure to pull the trigger. And I'm just here to tell you that's okay. Manufacturers don't want you to feel that way. They want you to feel FOMO. Distributors don't want you to feel that way. This has been my thing of late. Just wait and see, and you will be able to get both of these games. And by the time both of these games finish their code, trust me, you're going to be able to get any of them for 20 to 30 percent less. I don't know why that's such a problem. Why is it such a problem for everybody to approach this hobby this way? I think these pinball companies, though, they need to get the themes better. We shouldn't even be having debates. We should just be buying the game right away. Like that's what's going to happen when Back to the Future comes out. It's going to happen for the Harry Potter fan base. You know, what is it with this hobby and its inability to understand what the pinball buying demographic wants. You know, you got this huge list of people that they just love pinball. I get it. I love pinball too, but I love my money more and I love my family more and I love taking vacations more than pinball. So for me to buy a pinball machine and for me to think about it and you guys are in the same boat, it really needs to wow you because most of you have many machines you love already. So are these machines giving you more? The days of just buying because you want something new, new in box, are over unless you want to lose a lot of money. And that is the narrative of the last three years. And that story and that narrative is not going to get broken by the two games we saw yesterday. And I don't think it's going to get broken by Harry Potter because if they make unlimited CEs and Jack's already said they're going to make it for years, then why would you go in right away? But at least Harry Potter on day one will be most likely code complete. Jersey Jack doesn't release games with incomplete code. They might not have the wizard mode, which is going to be so funny considering it's Harry Potter. But for the most part, most of the game will be there. Everybody, thank you for being a member of Canada's Pinball Podcast. Tell me how you feel about King Kong. And oh, by the way, I saw a little bit of King Kong beforehand, which made me excited to order one. But when I saw the whole thing, I literally, I couldn't even take in what I was seeing. It was too much. It's just too much. It's not what I want in King Kong. Canada out. You have to stop the world just to stop the feeling.