Episode 226: Dwight Sullivan returns

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·16m 57s·analyzed·Oct 31, 2019

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Dwight Sullivan discusses Ghostbusters updates, Munsters 2, and game show hosting.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Dwight Sullivan, Stern Pinball's lead software designer, at Stern's offices during Chicago Expo. Sullivan discusses his recent work on Ghostbusters code updates (including the new God Mode), The Munsters 2 with John Borg, and his Family Feud pinball game show events. He reflects on his 30-year career, the evolution of pinball design philosophy, and upcoming plans including a speaking engagement at an Australian software conference in December.

Key Claims

Dwight Sullivan took a 6-year hiatus from pinball before returning to design Ghostbusters
high confidence · Sullivan states: 'i did pinball for 10 years and then i came here and i did it for nine more years and then i stopped for six years doing pinball and ghostbusters was my first game back into pinball'
The California Extreme audience collaboration for a Ghostbusters wizard mode was the cause of delays on Ghostbusters code
high confidence · Sullivan jokingly blames the audience: 'So I blame the audience at California Extreme for the delay in the Ghostbusters code. So there you have it. That's what the delay was.'
Sullivan wanted to do God Mode for Ghostbusters as a tease but didn't initially intend to implement it
high confidence · Sullivan explains: 'I meant it as a tease i meant it as I meant it as well maybe we get to that someday maybe not you know who cares right and I believe this now I believed it then the game was complete'
The Ghostbusters God Mode would not have been as substantial if implemented earlier after Star Wars
high confidence · Sullivan states: 'So waiting made it even better. I am going to prove a scientific fact about Dwight Sullivan. Dwight's mind works faster than his lips.'
Sullivan has completed all current games with no planned updates beyond The Munsters
high confidence · Sullivan responds: 'oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely it's everything moving forward now'
Sullivan intends to revisit Game of Thrones and Ghostbusters after The Munsters is complete
high confidence · Sullivan explains: 'I have time after Munsters to go back and do Game of Thrones and Ghostbusters.'
George Gomez has been staffing up the Stern software team significantly
medium confidence · Sullivan notes: 'George has been staffing up software quite a bit. We're not stretched as thin as we were back in the early days.'
The Ghostbusters God Mode design was informed by borrowing the multi-mode selection mechanic from The Walking Dead

Notable Quotes

“you guys have got some serious bromance going on so if we can't talk for 10 minutes something's wrong”
Jeff Teolis (wife of Dwight Sullivan) @ early in episode — Sets the tone for the informal, friendly dynamic between the two hosts and indicates they have a strong working relationship
“people don't really give a shit about who dwight is and what i've done for 30 years i mean they care about little nuggets of cool information about family must about games i one or two maybe you know my kids i think care”
Dwight Sullivan @ mid-episode — Sullivan reflects on audience priorities and what resonates at public events—entertainment value trumps designer credentials
“the whole game is different and at the same time the whole game is the same we didn't really change much but i think that's part of the magic just we changed the balance of the game we changed the scoring and the balance and the flow and the pacing”
Dwight Sullivan @ mid-episode — Describes the philosophy behind the Ghostbusters code update—subtle mechanical changes that shift gameplay feel without redesigning the core experience
“i wanted to do the the you know Scolari brothers he wanted to do the Magnuslings I thought his idea was stupid he thought mine was stupid put them together super stupid”
Dwight Sullivan @ mid-episode — Illustrates collaborative design tension on Ghostbusters where opposing ideas were merged, with humble acknowledgment of initial disagreement
“back before games were furniture back before games were toys”
Dwight Sullivan @ mid-episode — References a philosophical shift in how pinball machines are perceived—from location-based arcade equipment to home collectibles, affecting design approach
“i got that idea from walking dead walking dead when you light modes they're all kind of blinking really fast and you can choose which one you want to do just by shooting the shot”
Dwight Sullivan @ mid-episode — Reveals design inspiration sourcing and iterative borrowing of mechanics across games in Stern's portfolio

Entities

Dwight Sullivanperson Jeff TeolispersonStern PinballcompanyJohn Borgperson George Gomezperson Ghostbustersgame The Munstersgame

Signals

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community_signal: Family Feud pinball game show format has been successfully hosted three times (Louisville, Seattle, Chicago Expo) with strong audience reception despite limited designer-focused interest
high · Sullivan notes people 'don't really give a shit about who dwight is' but love the game show format for entertainment and prizes; has done it three times with plans to repeat format in Australia
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design_philosophy: John Borg and Dwight Sullivan have strong working relationship; The Munsters 2 designed with explicit goal of ease of explanation and accessibility
high · Sullivan states about The Munsters 2: 'That was the objective. That was the goal from the beginning was to make a game where you could easily just get to this kind of cool mode near the end'
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design_philosophy: Ghostbusters multi-mode selection mechanic borrowed from The Walking Dead; shows iterative design borrowing across Stern portfolio
high · Sullivan explains: 'I got that idea from walking dead walking dead when you light modes they're all kind of blinking really fast and you can choose which one you want to do just by shooting the shot'
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design_philosophy: Dwight Sullivan emphasizes subtle mechanical changes over radical redesigns; philosophy shifts from location-based entertainment to home collectible furniture affecting design approach
high · Sullivan states: 'the whole game is different and at the same time the whole game is the same we didn't really change much but i think that's part of the magic' and references historical shift 'back before games were furniture back before games were toys'
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Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.051

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it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teolis you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile you can find us on instagram at pinball profile we're even available on email wow crazy isn't it pinball profile at gmail.com and please subscribe on your favorite podcatcher i'm sitting here in stern pinball right now dwight sullivan is the doorman apparently because when I knock on the door there's Dwight he answers hey hey how's it going and I said you know what let's talk he said what are we going to talk about I said it doesn't matter you're interesting we can make it up as we go we can make it up as we go I love that plan that's a good plan I love this plan I'm glad to be a part of it and as my wife said the last time we were here she said uh you guys have got some serious bromance going on so if we can't talk for 10 minutes something's wrong well if we if you if there's silence then there's something else going on dramatic pause so you were a big hit as always at chicago expo with your new well your new uh career as a game show host i guess yeah i'm you know richard dawson and then me like i'm one down from richard dawson you know what richard dawson those other guys richard dawson didn't matter who right my favorite thing about richard dawson is oh what's your name oh my name is jim and who's this right here oh it's my wife of 25 years as he plants his tongue into his wife that's my favorite richard dossier oh hi honey he's yep that's my role model that's that the gene rayburn microphone money that's game show 101 but you did a game show the family feud pinball edition correct it was um it was the third time i've done it and it's always a hit we make each time we do less and less pinball and more game show because people are there for the prizes and the game show they understand family Feud and my friend Corey, he rocks. He gets, you know, we have the whole thing working and sounding just like Family Feud and people instantly understand it. And it, you know, it's a lot of fun. When did you first come up with this idea? Like, so a couple of three years ago, I'm doing a show in California Extreme and I'm thinking, well, what can I do? What can a programmer talk about? You know what? I'll include the audience and all of us will build a wizard mode for Ghostbusters, which just came out at the time, right? So that was the delay. Right. My whole talk at the California Extreme was, you know, like me and the audience are going to invent brand new a wizard mode for Ghostbusters right then and there. And it went over okay. So I blame the audience at California Extreme for the delay in the Ghostbusters code. So there you have it. That's what the delay was. That's absolutely, that's exactly what the delay was. You know, the game, we would have had the game if it wasn't for the California Extreme audience pissing me off and disappointing me and making me cry and go back to my room you know in tears right it wasn't that bad but but i learned i learned that in general people don't really give a shit about who dwight is and what i've done for 30 years i mean they care about little nuggets of cool information about family must about games i one or two maybe you know my kids i think care i was just throwing i was throwing your bone thinking maybe something so then i'm I got another show coming up in Seattle, like, like a few months later or, you know, six months later. So I'm going to be going to Seattle and I'm at a party and I'm asking my friends, I'm like, guys, look, this whole Ghostbusters thing was a bust. You know, what, what, what can I do? I want to make, I want to involve the audience and I want to do some kind of game, like a game show or something. And somebody said Family Feud, you know, like people were tossing out ideas and somebody said Family Feud. And I took that home and I ran with it and I sort of. Shaved your head like Steve Harvey. Correct. Yeah. So then I did the show I've done the show three times now Louisville, Seattle and now in Expo And people love it In fact, sure they want to learn who I am in the beginning But they don't really care But they have lots of fun Because there's prizes It's trivia, right? It's basically, it's easy as pie trivia Because it's like One of the questions was Name a popular pinball machine from the 1990s Top ten answers on the board A hundred people surveyed, go Right? And so of course the easy answers come to mind really fast like Adam Sandler right And then but then you got 10 I never thought of that one But then you go down the list and you try to figure out well what you know well what number nine You know, what's number 10? And if your team can't get it, then it goes over to the other team. They can steal it. And, you know, it's just, it's a lot of fun. It's basically trivia, but it's really, really easy and simple. And you know what? There's participation too from the audience and they get to play along at home. No, yeah. 10 people from the audience play every round, like five on each team. so the california people didn't come up with a great wizard mode but you did for ghostbusters and that has been the delight of so many people myself included dwight oh awesome it turned out really really good we i was nervous there for a while because we did months and months and months of work and every once in a while i would sit back and go no one's gonna like this because there's nothing really new in the game like the whole game is different and at the same time the whole game is the same we didn't really change much but i think that's part of the magic just we changed the balance of the game we changed the scoring and the balance and the flow and the pacing and of course yeah we added these cool god modes and that's that's really really awesome but i like the skill i was really nervous for a while right right we had it we did tons of little things like that but it was already there just not separated like that correct we did right right it was it so the game is basically like it was it's just slightly different but it makes you think about the game completely differently than you did before. And I like that you are not locked out of certain things that might have been a problem before. Is that fair to say? What things? What do you mean? So let's say skill shot, I missed the mode. Oh yeah, yeah. No, you're right. You're not locked out of things. The game is, that's what I was getting at, that the flow of the game is better, the pacing of the game is better. If you miss your skill shot, you cried in the old code. Right, because you were then in jail. Yes. Right, but now you're not isn't the jail is not so bad did you like putting people in jail or was that just no i'm like that was obviously a conscious decision back then it was it was you want to go into that i did pinball for 10 years and then i came here and i did it for nine more years and then i stopped for six years doing pinball and ghostbusters was my first game back into pinball okay right after after a six year hiatus that's right yeah so january 15 the designer who must not be named um sat down and we go we want to make a mean game and we made it too mean but we so we I wanted to do the you know Scolari brothers he wanted to do the Magnuslings I thought his idea was stupid he thought mine was stupid put them together super stupid well the Magnuslings I think are awesome come on and the Scolari brothers are awesome when they work yes they are no I'm sorry Dwight I love you but Scolari brothers before all right so I'm okay with it I pulled it from Cactus Canyon like I loved them that's different they come up the bad guys yeah they pop up they're little drop targets that pop up this was a game about you are a ghostbuster and you're catching ghosts and the ghosts are fighting back I always wanted to make a game where the ghosts fight back and the objective was to catch ghosts and I succeeded at that even in the end the final release we reduced the sclerobothers quite a bit that's another thing that happened in the new release and it's great and also the change to the video mode right the video mode is balanced scoring wise and you can't get it off the skill shot right you can't get it off the skill shot so that enabled me to make it worth more yeah so it's now worth more points but it you can really only get it maybe once a game unless you're really really good you can go like if you get mass hysteria once and then you come back through the ghost again somehow get it 140 ghost because it was on the play card did you feel pressure oh i guess i have to do this god wizard mode so when i put it on the card when i i put it on the card it's my fault um it says are you a god you know be good at everything i meant it as a tease i meant it as I meant it as well maybe we get to that someday maybe not you know who cares right and I believe this now I believed it then the game was complete the game like you went through the ladders you got wizard modes you were never getting my scolari brothers anyway so yeah it was complete no I'm just kidding so I think the game was complete but like maybe someday we do this are you a god mode and I put it on the card you know just as a tease and it was a mistake just for an experiment some of my thinking was still the 1990s you know in 2000 early 2000s thinking of pinball back when back before games were furniture back before games were toys You couldn do as much as you do now back then Right and my thinking was I mean so back in the day you you know games all mostly went to the field, and then they would go to the basements, and now that's different. Well, you've got a winner there, and it's been a good year for you too. You started the year with The Monsters 2, which is a, John Borg and you seem to work very, very well together. This is a great flowing game. It's the easiest game of all of your games to explain to somebody. It is. And I say that as a compliment. Thank you. That was the objective. That was the goal from the beginning was to make a game where you could easily just get to this kind of cool mode near the end. No, not near the end, but just down the road that, you know, you had to do this, you had to do that, you had to do this. It's sort of a wizard mode, but it's not, but it's easy to get to by everybody. Is it safe to say out of all your games or things that are out right now, everything's complete there are no updates that you can see oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely it's everything moving forward now yeah we that was after star wars i told the story before too and i'm sorry um that's all right if your listeners have heard it already after star wars or during star wars near the end of star wars i wanted to go back and do game of thrones and ghostbusters again because i had gotten my feet wet i i you know i now my mind's back in modern pinball and i'm like well i can i can change those things i can make them better and then star wars it It didn't happen, right? It didn't happen because Star Wars went long and then Munsters happened. So now I don't have any free time until the end of Munsters. Plus, George has been staffing up software quite a bit. We're not stretched as thin as we were back in the early days. And I have time after Munsters to go back and do Game of Thrones and Ghostbusters. And it's kind of cool because if I had done Ghostbusters back after Star Wars, it would not have been half as big. God mode wouldn't be there. So waiting made it even better. I am going to prove a scientific fact about Dwight Sullivan. Dwight's mind works faster than his lips. And probably that's the same for everyone. But Dwight, it's extremely accelerated. I'm going to right now ask Dwight to explain to someone who's never played before how to play Ghostbusters. You have 30 seconds. This should be good. I have 30 seconds to explain Ghostbusters? Ghostbusters is easy. Ghostbusters is the movie relived all of your favorite scenes are relived through scenes that you can play little modes that you can play so you push start you pull the plunger the ball will come around you hit the ghost target one time Slimer will come out this is how I pitched the game in the very beginning to the bosses right so it's going to be super super simple you pull the plunger you hit the ghost target Slimer comes down you hit Slimer you interact with the toy right and that lights three modes at once your path your three different paths you can choose and i got that idea from walking dead when you light modes they're all kind of blinking really fast and you can choose which one you want to do just by shooting the shot i thought that was really really cool but what if what if then there was another one after that and another one after that so i kind of put i kind of ripped that off from walking dead which i played just you know which i was playing at the beginning of making ghostbusters so then you start a mode a famous mode from the movie like we got one and you're you're the you're the ectomobile you know racing down the road or you know who brought the dog right you know like anybody anybody want to play part cheesy right that it says that in the game now um so and then you try to get as far as you can throughout through the movies that only took 14 minutes well done i'm sorry no that was actually pretty good okay that was good you certainly described the plot right and the creation of the interest of the game which first of all you're going to get by just looking at the game and saying i love that movie oh look there's Slimer there's the car there's the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man so now when you actually get to play it okay yeah this is this is kind of fun so anyway congratulations on that earlier obviously Game of Thrones Monsters this year so I guess for you right now it's just your feet your feet are up and doing nothing maybe some travel plans some travel plans oh actually that's true um this coming December I'll be going to Australia my first time ever going to that side of the planet My first time ever needing a passport It really really sad I 54 years old I know I know So well I mean pre 9 I been to Mexico I been to Canada but I never been to Europe ever. Now Homeland Security says, no, we got to keep an eye on you. Right. Is that what it is? That's exactly what it is. I'm on some list someplace, I'm sure.