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Episode 4 : The Classic Pinball Podcast - Quicksilver - Part 1

The Classic Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·54m 58s·analyzed·Jul 23, 2019
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TL;DR

Classic Pinball Podcast deep-dive into Quicksilver's history, design, and gameplay mechanics.

Summary

George and Dave discuss the history, design, and mechanics of Quicksilver, a 1980 Stern pinball game with only ~150 machines produced worldwide. They explore the game's designer JoJo Jr., artist Doug Watson's bold choice to use green playfields against company directives, the iconic artwork's inspiration from Heavy Metal and Peter Max, and detailed gameplay mechanics including drop target sweeps, bonus multipliers, and sound design. The conversation also touches on Stern's production volume in 1980, cabinet design choices, and mechanical differences between Stern and Bally machines.

Key Claims

  • Quicksilver was one of Stern's hits from 1980, with only 1,200 units produced initially

    high confidence · Dave states this as documented fact from production records

  • Approximately 150 Quicksilver machines exist worldwide today after 40 years

    high confidence · George and Dave discuss production numbers halving every 10 years; Pinside identifies 61 machines; Dave estimates ~150 remain

  • A 1935 J.H. Keeney machine called Quicksilver predates the Stern game and was the first to use a free-play coin mech

    high confidence · George cites Marco Razzagnoli's pinball history books; original price was $67.50

  • Designer JoJo Jr. created Quicksilver; his only significant game gem in the 1980s was this title

    medium confidence · Dave provides list of JoJo Jr.'s other titles (Catacomb, Dragon Fist, Hypnox, Laser Lord, Lightning, Viper) and notes limited success

  • Artist Doug Watson defied Stern management's directive against using green playfields on Quicksilver

    high confidence · George recounts attending Doug Watson's 2000 Texas Pinball Festival seminar where Watson discussed this decision

  • Quicksilver's back glass artwork is heavily inspired by Heavy Metal magazine and possibly Peter Max's psychedelic art style

    high confidence · George and Dave discuss Watson's ad agency background and artistic influences; George saw Peter Max-like elements in the figure and color scheme

  • Stern used minimal cabinet art in 1980, often applying just one stencil to a single base color due to production volume pressures

    high confidence · Dave explains Stern's two-tone painting approach; George observes most cabinets were black with minimal decoration

  • Quicksilver has the best bonus countdown sound effect among Stern games from that era

    medium confidence · Dave states this opinion based on listening to Stargazer, Sea Witch, Meteor comparisons

Notable Quotes

  • “It ain't just any plain old silver ball, it's the fastest moving pinball ever. Quick silver!”

    George @ Opening — Episode opener; the iconic catchphrase defining the show's subject matter

  • “1980 was their year. They put out, for instance, these games here, Galaxy, Ali, Big Game, Sea Witch, Cheetah, Quicksilver, Flight 2000, Stargazer, Nineball... a new game every month in 1980.”

    Dave @ Early discussion — Establishes Stern's exceptional 1980 production volume and Quicksilver's context in their output

  • “I went to the books... I went to look up Quicksilver. I'm thinking, oh, okay, they're going to have the Stern game. Nope. 1935, J.H. Keeney's Quicksilver. The first game to use a free play coin mech.”

    George @ History segment — Reveals lesser-known pre-Stern Quicksilver; demonstrates George's research depth

  • “He wasn't one to fall into line with that kind of stuff, so he said, I don't think so. Screw you guys. I'm using green.”

    George @ Doug Watson artwork discussion — Illustrates Watson's artistic independence and bold defiance of management restrictions

  • “I went right up to him and confronted him in front of everybody... he said, no, no, that's just mercury or, you know, that kind of the flow of it.”

    George @ Artwork subliminal messaging discussion — George directly confronting Watson about a potentially intentional phallic shape in the playfield; Watson's evasive response

  • “They were not afraid to experiment... They tried all the wacky stuff.”

    Dave @ Design philosophy discussion — Characterizes Stern's experimental approach to game design versus Bally's more conservative style

  • “I can understand now why people like this game. It's got great sounds.”

    George @ Sound design demonstration — After hearing the detailed sound feedback demonstrations, George's appreciation for Quicksilver's sonic design increases

Entities

GeorgepersonDavepersonQuicksilvergameStern PinballcompanyBally/ValleycompanyDoug WatsonpersonJoJo Jr.person

Signals

  • ?

    design_innovation: Doug Watson defied Stern management's directive against green playfields on Quicksilver, implementing his vision despite corporate pushback. This exemplifies designer autonomy and artistic confidence in 1980.

    high · George recounts Watson's explicit rejection: 'Screw you guys. I'm using green.' Watson later explained the choice at Texas Pinball Festival seminar.

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Quicksilver's sound package is praised as superior to contemporaries, particularly the bonus countdown and progressive drop target feedback sounds that indicate player achievement through audio cues.

    high · Dave states 'out of all of those that did it, Cook Silver did the best' regarding the celebratory maxed-bonus sound. George acknowledges 'It's got great sounds' after demonstrations.

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern used pot metal construction in early 1980s games like Quicksilver, which corroded over time with white dust oxidation, whereas Bally's nylon-bushed design was more robust. This was by design: machines weren't expected to last decades.

    high · Dave explains: 'the metal actually after years would kind of turn a little white dust would be on it, like from a little corrosion.' Stern expected 2-year lifecycle; no design for durability.

  • $

    market_signal: Quicksilver's low 1,200 initial production and estimated ~150 surviving machines worldwide creates high collector demand and scarcity. George notes three to four machines have passed through his restoration shop over five years.

    high · Dave: 'especially Quicksilver at 1,200... I don't think there's more than 150 games worldwide.' George confirms rarity: 'I've been blessed to have, I don't know, about three or four of them over the past five years come through my restoration place.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.165

0:00
Hello everyone, my name is George. This is episode 4 of the Classic Pinball Podcast. It ain't just any plain old silver ball, it's the fastest moving pinball ever. Quick silver! I'm now joined by my co-host, Dave. Hello, Dave. Hello, George. Now let's get to Quicksilver. Dave, why don't we start with the history of Quicksilver?
0:43
Quicksilver was one of the hits from 1980 that Stern put out. Stern pretty much put out a new game every month in 1980. They also did the late 70s and early 80s as well. But 1980 was their year. They put out, for instance, these games here, Galaxy, Ali, Big Game, Sea Witch, Cheetah, CookSilver, Flight 2000, Stargazer, Nineball. That's all in order when they're released. Galaxy in January and ending with Nineball in December. And the funny thing about Flight 2000, they put out in August of 80, Flight 2000, and also in August of 80, Stargazer. And same thing with Cheetah and CookSilver. They're like sister games, too. in, let's see, it was a June of 80 Cheetah, June of 80 Quicksilver. Right, but they're putting these games out. And if you look at the numbers, and especially Quicksilver at 1,200, some of these games are really low production. Now I understand why they're in great demand. And you and I have had this discussion, and it's probably the right spot to put it. I use the half every 10 years of the number that were produced. But in the case of Quicksilver, I did the numbers. You go from 1,200 to 600 to 300 to 150 in 40 years. If you go out to Pinside, they identify 61 machines right away. So what do you think? Do you think there's more than 150 games worldwide?
2:27
I don't think so. That sounds about right. That sounds probably about 150 games out there. Yeah, I'm blessed to have, I don't know, about three or four of them over the past five years have come through my restoration place.
2:40

The drop target bank on Quicksilver and Sea Witch are in the same or nearly identical positions

medium confidence · Dave notes both were Stern games and believes the geometry was kept similar; George hasn't directly compared them

  • Stern's early mechanical parts used pot metal construction, which corroded over time, whereas Bally used more robust solid metal with nylon bushings

    high confidence · George and Dave discuss mechanical durability differences; Dave explains Stern's metal-on-metal design wore faster than Bally's nylon-bushed approach

    • “Stern got a bad rep early on for using almost like a pot metal thing... the metal actually after years would kind of turn a little white dust would be on it, like from a little corrosion.”

    Dave @ Mechanical durability discussion — Explains a key manufacturing quality difference between Stern and Bally that affects long-term reliability

  • “They're not going to have, like, 30, 40, 50 years. We know they were never intended for that.”

    Dave @ Manufacturing perspective — Contextualizes 1980s manufacturing philosophy; machines weren't designed for multi-decade lifespans

  • “I was stuck on ball one for, I don't know, a half hour. I was like, this ain't for me.”

    George @ Stackable extra balls discussion — Humorous anecdote about working on a Nitro Groundshaker with all specials set to extra balls

    • Pat Lawlor
    person
    Mike Kubinperson
    Marco Razzagnoliperson
    Peter Maxperson
    J.H. Keeneycompany
    Trimount Coin Machine Companycompany
    Jesse Kujawaperson
    Joelperson
    Sea Witchgame
    Stargazergame
    Nitro Groundshakergame
    Paragongame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    IPDBorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Heavy Metal Magazineproduct
    Galaxygame
    ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern's 1980 production strategy emphasized volume (one new game per month) over cabinet presentation quality. Machines received minimal artwork, often just black paint with a single stencil, because they were stacked together in arcades and rarely seen individually.

    high · Dave: 'They were just throwing them out the door. They would paint them black for all they cared.' George notes seeing too many newer machines makes him forget 1980s machines were 'buried in a bank of games.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern positioned itself as experimentally bold versus Bally's conservative approach, trying 'wacky stuff' and not fearing innovation. This manifested in Quicksilver's unconventional green playfield and advanced sound feedback systems.

    medium · Dave: 'Stern... They tried all the wacky stuff. They were not afraid to experiment.' Contrasted with Bally being 'more like, I don't know, an Italian road car' vs. 'Cadillac.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: A 1935 J.H. Keeney machine predates the iconic Stern Quicksilver by 45 years, establishing 'Quicksilver' as a recognized game title. The 1935 machine pioneered free-play coin mechanisms and sold for $67.50.

    high · George cites Marco Razzagnoli's pinball history books: '1935, J.H. Keeney's Quicksilver. The first game to use a free play coin mech... $67.50.'

  • ?

    community_signal: George's restoration business receives rare Quicksilver machines; machines are in poor condition but generate collector interest. The community values these machines despite their fragility and uses modern software mods for enhancement.

    medium · George: 'the ones I've seen online are really beat up, and I understand why they've made a reproduction.' He also modifies Quicksilver software to remove bonus holdover feature, though it causes other bugs.

  • ?

    content_signal: Classic Pinball Podcast dedicates two-part episode to detailed Quicksilver analysis, including live gameplay demonstrations, sound comparisons, and mechanical walkthroughs. Format allows informal expert discussion with primary machine present.

    high · Episode structure includes live sound demonstrations, multiple gameplay recordings, and direct mechanical examination. George and Dave's casual conversation style allows tangential exploration of design philosophy.

  • ?

    design_innovation: Quicksilver implements audio-visual feedback for progressive accomplishments: hitting 1, 2, 3, or 4 drop targets produces distinct sounds; spinning unlit vs. lit spinners have different tones; maxing bonus triggers celebratory light/sound sequence. This design pattern distinguishes achievement levels.

    high · Dave demonstrates: 'If you get one target down with that, it makes a certain noise. You get two down, it makes a different noise. Three down, different noise. And four down, a whole different noise.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Doug Watson synthesized multiple artistic influences for Quicksilver back glass: Heavy Metal magazine imagery as primary reference, with secondary Peter Max psychedelic art elements in color scheme and figure composition. Watson's ad agency background informed deliberate stylistic choices.

    high · George identifies Heavy Metal inspiration but credits Peter Max influence: 'if you look at the genre of what Watson did with that back glass... certainly is in the same artistic realm.' Dave notes Watson was 'gun for hire' contracting between manufacturers.

    • Well, the ones I've seen online are really beat up, and I understand why they've made a reproduction, but that'll come in a later segment. Sure. So, yeah, there's a lot of machines produced by Stern, but also if you look at Bali in the same time frame, they produced a lot of games too. Yeah, Bali – you say Bali, I say Bali, tomato, tomato. But I say – Hey, hey, hey, hey, not with the accents though.
    3:10
    You're from New Jersey, so we can, you know. I'm from Boston. Most people wouldn't know that. Just say coffee. There you go. How do you say coffee? Coffee. Okay. Coffee. Right.
    3:25
    Yeah, for Valley, 1980 was their worst year, in my opinion, my honest opinion. From a production standpoint, the number of games they won as well, I'm looking at the list. Nitro Groundshaker, Silver Ball Mania, Rolling Stones, Mystic, Hot Dogging, Viking, Skateball, Frontier. Am I missing one? Yeah. Here's another one down below, Xenon. That's a lot of games. A lot of games. 1980 was a rich year for both companies, I guess, is where I'm going. It was. Oh, yeah. They put out, I call them like playmates, you know, like Miss October or whatever. It's kind of like that, you know, and they were all in competition with each other. Pinball was on fire. They were, you know, everybody was clamoring for them. You find a pinball machine like this everywhere. Laundromats, bars, arcades. You'd trip over them. People would just keep – sometimes the operators would call in, hey, this thing isn't taking games anymore. No one can play it. Yeah, the coin boxes overflow with quarters. Right. Yeah, no, it was a good time. It was a good time in pinball. Did you know that there was a pinball, by definition, produced under the Quicksilver name before this game?
    4:42
    I did not know that. No. I went to the books Janice bought me a long time, probably when I first got into the hobby. And, you know, those Marco Razzagnoli books. Oh, yeah. Yep, I know those books, yeah. So, the pinball memories. I went to look up Quicksilver. I'm thinking, oh, okay, they're going to have the CERN game. Nope.
    5:05
    1935, J.H. Keeney's Quicksilver. The first game to use a free play coin mech. By definition, it's a pinball, but no flippers.
    5:16
    And here's the great thing. They have the ad. $67.50. Wow. Times have changed. Yeah, no kidding. And they call the people that sold them, I thought this was a wild name, nation's leading jobbers. And they have the company from Boston, Trimount Coin Machine Company on Washington Street. That place sounds familiar. I've heard of that place somehow in my travels. I must see a sticker on a game at some point come through here yeah this thing's small too it's like a tabletop thing 20 inches by 40 inches yeah just weird trivia fact I did my homework I did my research how's that? that's good very good what else about the history do you want to talk about the people who were involved in development.
    6:16
    Yeah. Basically, JoJo's Jr., he designed the game. He did a couple games by them. You want me to go through them? Go ahead. Go through them. I've got the list in front of me. See, again, researched. He did Catacomb,
    6:36
    Dragon Fist, Hypnox, whatever the heck that is. Oh, Hypnox. Yep. Laser Lord. Production one. Okay. Lightning.
    6:49
    Quicksilver, obviously. And we'll see page two here. Viper. Well, they didn't make a lot of those either. Viper. So those are the games he worked on. But he also worked for Williams.
    7:03
    Yeah, I think he did Catacomb, correct? Pretty sure he did. Yes, I just said, yes, he did. Yeah, Catacomb. Yeah, so his only real gem in the 1980s, which is the stellar year for Stern, was the Quicksilver. Otherwise, when you start getting the early 80s, you're getting these other games that they were kind of running out of ideas or trying new. That's the good thing about Stern, though. They tried all the wacky stuff. They were not afraid to experiment. We're going to get to the wackiest in a little bit. Oh, yeah. No, I think I know where you're going with that one. Let's talk about the Williams games because I'm familiar with one of them, but I'm not familiar with all of them, so maybe you can comment. Bad Cats.
    7:45
    Bad Cats, yeah. Okay, leave it at that. Black Knight 2000. That's a good game. Cyclone, it sold almost 10,000 units. Yeah, not a big fan. Jokers?
    7:59
    Not a big fan of that one either. Okay, we'll strike it out. How about Pinbot? Kind of like A lot like Galaxy really Police Force Nah not a big fan And Bride of Pinbot Don't really care for that one but the guys that Did the redo on that That's a pretty interesting game Well these are all I mean Well I think You're cutting down the number of games we're going to be reviewing We're going to have shows where we're doing like 20 games although I came up with an idea tell me what you think we could do some shows where we do the good the bad and the ugly yeah sure so game we like good bad game we don't like ugly just you got it could be a great game but it's just ugly that gets three machines out of the way in one show I like that. That's good. That works. Another idea. We'll put it on the burner. What else do we need to know about history? Well, I'll tell you. Let me tell you about the artwork. You want to go there right away. Okay. Sure.
    9:20
    Doug Watson. I've got a story about him. When he made this game, he wanted to use a green play field. The powers that be at Stern's head And I think other pinball designers and the bigwigs above the designers said, no, no, no, you can't use green. Green doesn't work. No one likes green in the pinball machine. Use other colors, but green is definitely a no-no. Well, he wasn't one to fall into line with that kind of stuff, so he said, I don't think so. Screw you guys. I'm using green. So he did, and it came out great with the green there. And I went to one of his talks, my wife and I, in early 2000, Texas Pinball Festival. And he was doing a seminar there on all his artwork and what he's done. And he used to work for all these guys from that time, from all these artists. There's some great artwork. And the reason why it's so nice is because they used to work for ad agencies, a place called Ad Poster. so all his artwork was inspired and and you can tell the quick silver artwork in the back glass is from heavy metal magazine and actually the heavy metal magazine is almost it's almost an exact you know uh you can say rip off you can say homage to it so doug watson was up there and he's saying about the you know quick silver and the other games he had there and uh and about the green in the play field and then i noticed in the play field because i you know do a lot of close-up touch-up work and so forth and clean the playfields. I'm seeing all the artwork in the playfield, and I'm noticing one thing on the playfield that just looked a little, I don't know, obscene a little bit. It looked like a male appendage, let's say. Oh, you're going there? Sure.
    11:05
    I went there right in front of him in front of everybody else. Okay. I'm thinking something totally different. Okay, go ahead. And so I said, hey, hey, Doug, I noticed someone was cleaning a play field. It looks a little kind of male appendage-y kind of thing. And he said, do you see a male appendage on the play field? And then I quickly recovered and said, no, no, my wife over here, she noticed it. So I recovered quickly on that one. But he said, no, no, that's just mercury or, you know, that kind of the flow of it. And it's like, okay, but it really, I don't know. I've heard other podcasts refer to this when they talk about the game I confronted him though I went right up to him and confronted him in front of everybody but he didn't own up to it no he did not I took this is crazy I took this wacky English class when I was in high school about advertising and subliminal messages and coke was notorious for this with their bubbles and you know if you look at the way that the coke was distributed through the bottle there was definite sexual innuendo underlying in a lot of their ads so for him to place that if he's an ad guy like you said you know this is the early 70s when I was in school. So, yeah, I definitely believe he did that intentionally. But I have a totally different take on it instead of the heavy metal. I think it's more based on Peter Max.
    12:49
    Are you familiar with Peter Max? I've heard of him, but I don't really have it come to mind. Well, again, see, here's the generational thing, and we're only a couple years apart, but the late 60s and 70s, and if you go look up Peter Max if you're young.
    13:08
    Psychedelia. I'm looking right now. Yep, I see what you're saying. Right, so if you look at the genre of what Watson did with that back glass, the color scheme might not be the same because of the whole green thing you just talked about, but it certainly is in the same artistic realm. You can definitely draw comparisons. okay yeah kind of kind of like i see a little bit but i don i don know i i see more that that peter max is a little more in something like hot dog right Oh certainly because it the color scheme and yeah the hot dogs the balloons, call them whatever you want. But if you look at that, there's one Peter Max painting, and forgive me, I don't know the name of it, but if you look at the person or whatever the figure is on the back of Quicksilver, you can definitely identify it with a piece of Peter Max artwork. That's all I'm saying. It's not exact, but you can see where he kind of – Influence. He was definitely taken a little bit here and a little bit there. And if you start looking at all the other games this guy worked on, I mean, Doug, his artwork's all over the place. Yeah, it is. I think he was just gun for hire and was like, hey, we need artwork to look like X. Okay, I can do that. He did it. Pretty much. These guys are all gun for hire. They never really worked for it. They got contracted to the different pinball manufacturers. She's never really worked for them directly. So I have a color question for you. This is, again, a good spot for it. Is there a specific, I'm sure you're familiar with, I hope I'm saying it right, panetone, all the different color variations, you know, the wheel, call it whatever you want. Is there a number for that green?
    15:02
    There probably is. Something like our friend Joel will be able to answer that one. Good. we'll ask him that at some point so that's one and the second is did Stern have did they buy like thousands of gallons of black and silver paint because all their cabinets just were I mean the cabinet on this game is just awful horrible it's not appropriate I mean it's kind of endearing I kind of like it if you took the colors and the artwork off the back of that game and put it on the side art of that game it would look intense George, George it's quicksilver, get it? Silver yeah, quicksilver in the pocket, that was it here, you have one stencil done I mean really and then and then this feeds into i'm out on ipdb and they're showing a picture of the left side of the cabinet and jesse as much as you've done for the hobby you know who i'm going to talk about what's his last name kujawa is that his last name yeah that's for nasa yes well they have a picture he took he's got a lawnmower stowed under it there's a big gash in the side of it i'm like guys there's got to be a better picture out there than this one and jesse thanks for sending it into those guys but man that's that's just sad commentary with all the nice machines that are out there this is on quicksilver he's got it on there it's on ipdb no i know i'm on there right now and i'm looking so yeah quicksilver go to the bottom and you'll see the picture it's i think it's the left side of the cabinet okay cabinet right cabinet left okay i'm gonna check it right now boom oh oh it's horrible no with the lawnmower what the that's see there's no respect there come on there's no logos in that right i i like i said i did my homework on this one uh let's see where do we go next well we talked about the silver and all Stern cabinets in general, and Cook Silver is one of them, a lot of Stern cabinets are true. You have a good point. They did do two-tone. Paint it one color and boom, throw down one stencil with one other color and you're done.
    17:37
    I'd say Sea Witch a little different. Actually, you got two colors on there. Actually, well, three colors to include in the base. But a lot of times they did that. I'm looking right now at some other stuff like Flight 2000. three color but i i'd say it's in the minority with the with the two color or at least half i guess i guess i've been looking at too many of the newer machines that are being manufactured yes i know they're decals but my point is you could really do up given the color scheme of quicksilver i think you could make a much more exciting looking cabinet i guess that's my point What you've got to understand is that back in this time, there was so many people. Oh, I get it. They were just throwing them out the door. They would paint them black for all they cared. I mean, what's the one game, not Banzai, the Kung Fu theme, help me. Well, it says it's Stern on the side of the machine. Dragon Fist. Yeah, it says Stern. I mean, gee. Right. Right, Viper, same thing. But that's the 1981. That's basically, that's when they kind of said, well, we don't really care about, we're not going to put any time into that. We're running out of the door here. We're getting kicked out of our office because we're going bankrupt or whatever they're doing. So they're just kind of, okay, well, we're not going to pay attention to that. But back in this time from in the 70s and 80s, there were so many games out there, so many arcade lineups. It's Sack of All Next to Each Other. You wouldn't even see the artwork anywhere. Oh, no, no, I understand it being buried in a bank of games.
    19:13
    Like I said, I think I practiced it by saying, I've looked at too many of the newer games and just look at the artwork and say wow that's a cool looking game it's period specific the sounds of these games are freaking awesome especially Quicksilver I'd say it is the best bonus countdown in pinball here's what it sounds like when you lose a ball after maxing it out
    19:45
    That's a great sounding game. How's that? That was really good. Yeah, you know you've done something at Cook Silver when you've done something.
    20:10
    Totally different sound package than what I'm used to. So now when you – I'm going to do that again. And now since I got a maxed out thing, it has 75,000 point holdover that you're going to hear at the very end of the next ball loss. So let's do that. Before this is an extra ball sound.
    20:35
    That held over from last ball. And we'll get some letters here. Are you still there, George? Yes, I'm still here. I'm listening.
    21:01
    So now we're going to lose the ball here. How was that? It was real good. I didn't interrupt at that time. Especially in a lot of these Stern games, when you maxed out the bonus and maxed out the multiplier, you'd get a little celebratory dance with sound and light when you did that to know you did something.
    21:47
    And so a couple games, I think Stargazer did it, Quicksilver, Sea Witch, oh, Meteor did it, and maybe one other. But I think that was about it. A handful did that whole little dance thing. You definitely know you achieve something when you max things out. but out of all of those that did it, Cook Silver did the best. Well, I told you before we started recording that I watched a couple of broadcasts, and, yeah, the sounds are great on that game, and the gameplay is, it's not a complex game by any stretch, but it's a, man, that's a fun game. Playing it at your house, that's the only place I've ever played it, obviously with so many, you know, so few games out there. It's a sweetly designed table. I just love that Target Bank. The Target Bank is, while they don't do that, well, they kind of did it, I guess, in the Beatles remake, you know, of Sea Witch. Is Quicksilver and Sea Witch four-bank Target in the same spot?
    23:03
    Yes. oh really yep if not then it's pretty darn close if it's not it's pretty darn close they kind of kept the geometry they made a little easier so who designed Sea Witch that is Mike Kubin huh well it's the same company so right it really wouldn't matter I guess That's not something I've ever heard anybody ever talk about.
    23:41
    What, comparing the two? Where the target bank is on the game. I've never heard anybody even refer to it, saying, hey, are they in the same spot?
    23:52
    You might have, not me. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I mean, if I had them both in front of me, I could definitely tell you for sure. but I am pretty sure they're either exact or pretty darn close. Well, I think more games should have it. I love that part of the game, that aspect of the game. Well, I think Quicksilver does it better. I think Quicksilver, the way you can sweep that bank of four just right, if you do it just right, you'll get all four. Very tough to do. You can get three a lot of times, two a lot of times. If you get it wrong, you're going to hit the first target, and boom, it's going to go right down the middle, or you bounce right off the backing rubber behind it. Also in this game, they did a lot of cool, interesting sound manipulation, let's say. So if you get one target down with that, it makes a certain noise. You get two down, it makes a different noise. Three down, different noise. And four down, a whole different noise. So you know you really did something. So the good sound feedback you would get with these games. I didn't pay that close attention. The thing that got me with this game was the left-hand hole and how you could increase the target value. Does that target value hold? I think the answer is yes. It does. Yes, it does. Yep. Wow, that's pretty cool. How about the bonus multiplier? Does that hold through the game too? It does.
    25:20
    I have some special software I put in the game that it gets rid of that, but it's a little bit buggy, and I forget, you lose something else by doing that. I think the spinner sound isn't right or something. It messes something up.
    25:35
    The other little software bug in this game that kind of bugs me, so to speak, is when you get the extra ball. So you get extra ball by spelling quick.
    25:46
    Well, you get extra ball lit by spelling quick, and then the lights per Q-U-I-C-K will move around, when you hit certain things in the play field, they'll move around. So it's hard. So basically it's hard to get extra ball that way. It's always moving around.
    26:03
    When you do achieve it, well, first of all, when that's on like that, I believe the lights turn off. I can find out for sure by doing this. I've got it right in front of me. The lights turn off for the top quick, and just the one lane will light. It will flash because it's not GI up there for the lanes. It's actually a feature light. Oh, that's the other weird thing about this game is that those lights are not GI. Yeah, they're feature lights. It wants to enhance where you're going to shoot the ball into. But the thing is, once you achieve that extra ball, those lights don't turn back on again. They stay off.
    26:43
    Well, this is probably a good spot to introduce this. So in looking at their brochure, their ad for the game, they have an add a ball feature for up to five balls. How does that work?
    27:00
    Well, that means you can stack extra balls. So I'm thinking of add a ball as, you know, you lose a ball, the next ball comes up. You lose a ball, the next ball comes up, like an extra ball. That's not the same thing, is it? No, add a ball, it is. So basically add a ball means you can stack extra balls. That's what it says. You can stack them Okay You know stackable That all it saying So how do you stack them on that game In this game I not sure because I never turned that feature on in this game I know on Stargazer. I know you do it. But on Cook Silver, I've never. I would say if I was to guess, I would say you would turn specials. All the specials in the game would be equal extra ball instead of getting a free game. and that way you would basically, if you spell quick and then hit the letter that's flashing for extra ball, and now you've got extra ball number one, still play the same ball, and now you get a special, extra ball number two. And there's multiple specials on the game. There's the drop targets on the right is a special. There's a special lane up top. So you're telling me that on a three-ball game you could have eight or more balls?
    28:12
    One, two, three. Yeah, you probably could. I just worked on a nitro ground shaker for a customer, and they had the game all set up that way, so everything was an extra ball. I was stuck on ball one for, I don't know, a half hour. I was like, this ain't for me.
    28:29
    Well, hey, it's their game. They can play it the way they want. Exactly. Is there anything else about the sound package or gameplay we want to talk about? Okay, go. I can even demonstrate. Go.
    28:46
    The floor is yours. All right. So let's press out a game here. So that saucer you're talking about that increases the value of the drop targets, so sweepable for drop targets, that's a really nice sound. In fact, I put a subwoofer in front of this game a while back, and it really sounded good, but check this out.
    29:12
    How's that? Not sure it's coming across the way you want it to. All right, let's try this one. Oh, that's pretty neat.
    29:24
    How was that? Yeah, it's not bad. I don't know. Something might be the mic on your phone. It's okay.
    29:37
    Let me try. All right. So getting drop targets down. If you get one down, you get two down. Let me try three in a second here. Now here's three down.
    29:54
    And here's four down at the same time. All a little bit different. Yeah. So you can hear it almost going one, two, three, four. and what that sound was right there was spelling quick i spelled quick by getting those four drop targets down five times every time you get the drop targets down those four bank in the middle there it gives you a letter i i wanted to talk about this for a second i love this part of the game where you can obviously go through lanes or hit the stationary targets to spell quicksilver but by knocking down all four targets like you said also adds the next letter. I wish that that was a feature on Paragon and I know I set my Paragon up on the random generator for the letters but it would be nice if there was some way on Paragon where you could earn a letter without having to put it in the saucer uh you oh you know what you can't you're right you can get bonus but you can't yeah that's true you can make it a little ed that it would be nice but a lot of people don't send it up with it you know with the random generator they just have it so that it spells it out you know one two three four you know right which i don't like i like the randomness i mean i like random too. Right. I mean, it makes it harder.
    31:28
    And Stern's made this little happy seven-flash sound. Dally's did not. Dally's would just give you a flashing seven-flash on the MPU to let you know you're all the way booted up. Stern would actually do the flashing MPU seven times and give you a sound feedback, so you don't have to take the glass off, the back glass off, to see what's going on, which is a nice little feature they did. Another thing Stern did over Dally is they would show you on ball, at the end of ball two, going into ball three, they would flash, here's the highest score to date to go for, make this third ball count to go for it, and they showed up at all four displays. Bally didn't do that. So Stern had a lot of innovation back in this time versus its bigger brother, Bally, who was more like, Bally's more like the Cadillac, and these guys are more like, I don't know, an Italian road car. Well I'm surprised because you can hear me but you can't hear the sounds Yeah I can actually even open the door up Try again Alright let me give it more volume Oh that's better Much better Okay Alright so let's go with the spinner first here That's unlit spinner. Here's a lit spinner.
    33:06
    Those sounds are much better. Okay. So spinners are meant to spin. So I have my spinners spin a long, long time.
    33:18
    so here is a lit spinner on cook silver versus unlit so unlit first it's a drop target sorry it's a spinner unlit it spins for a good long time let's try a lit spinner Now let's try a pop-up. They sound great. They have a great decay action.
    34:07
    Then drop targets. This is a sweepable one, so I'll do one, then two, then three, then four. Try one. two and three and four Those sounds are much better than the earlier recording.
    34:32
    I can understand now why people like this game. It's got great sounds. How do the mechs on a Stern game compare to the Bolly games that I own? The Bali games are more robust. They use more real solid metal.
    34:54
    Stern got a bad rep early on for using almost like a pot metal thing. So on their early stuff, like even games like Stars and that kind of thing, the Chimer games, Trident, Pinball, more like pot metal, and so much so that the metal actually after years would kind of turn a little white dust would be on it, like from a little corrosion. Right. And they wouldn't be as reliable. They'd have metal-on-metal contact for resetting drop targets. There's metal-on-metal on there. Because, you know, when they made these games, it's like, oh, people will play them for two years and throw them out and get the next model. They're not going to have, like, 30, 40, 50 years. We know they were never intended for that. I think my question, you know, specifically surrounds target banks. Yeah. You kind of answered the question. I mean, there are a lot of different variety of Bali target banks. They're not all the same. But mechanically, they're similar.
    35:55
    Similar, but Bali did a lot better with robustness. For instance, their wear areas would have niliners, like nylon as a bushing between two metal pieces. Stern did not do this. Stern just did metal on metal. So over time, you get tubes, fatigue. Exactly. Yep. So, again, being naive, you can't swap mechs between the two games. You can swap all the different boards, but when it comes to, well, maybe not sound boards, but the main boards, mechs are not interchangeable. Well, you could. someone could take a stern mech and put it into a belly game um they're saying they're not interchangeable like you know bolly to bolly i mean no i say rip it out of one and put it in the other it's the same thing uh you mean like from uh like a saucer or you know certain target banks are the same um you know flippers obviously yeah you know i've converted all my games back to you know, traditional or first-gen flippers rather than, you know, the later generation Centaur and beyond because they play better. They just, you know, and that was you. I mean, I converted all my games over. Yeah, you can't. They're not directly swappable. You can't take a drop target bank and just, like, oh, I'm going to swap it into a battle game over here. It's not really the same thing. Like, and same thing with their drop targets themselves are not the same drop target as battle users. It's a different geometry.
    37:37
    All right, I'm just saying some nitpickers out there will say, well, that's not totally true. Okay. You know what I mean? Go ahead. Start. Okay. So the interchangeable boards, you've got the sauna driver board, lamp driver board, directly swappable to the Bally stuff. Bally and Stern are the same. The sound boards, no. They did handle the sound differently.
    37:57
    Stern Games took the sound directly off of the CPU chip, and Bally did that more locally on their sound board. instead. So you can't swap those around at all. You can swap the MPU. The Stern can go, especially the older Sterns, the MPU 100s, can swap into the Bally-17. Right, but I'm thinking most people out there, other than pure collectors, are buying Altex or now the new Weebly board or whatever.
    38:32
    There's an assortment of different boards out there. But my point is that's the easy one. And the rectifiers are the same as well, right? I mean, they're the same thing.
    38:45
    Well, you're saying that the stern versus valley, yeah, you can actually swap them around a little bit. But the way it's made, the stern is one big, huge board in the bottom, and the valley is more compact. So I've seen people take a valley one and put it in the stern that's missing, and it works, but it looks kind of hacky. but it gets a job done and to do with Stern to a baller you can do that too but you've got to kind of take the big board apart you know it's doable but it's not like a direct easy swap like the older machines with the you know the smaller rectifier board in the back box for ballies I don't know if Stern did the same and put it in the back box or down into the actual cabinet but the smaller board not later ballies where the rectifier was in the cabinet, and it's a bigger board. Yeah, the 79 games, like Kiss and that kind of thing, those are smaller boards. Those boards are directly, you can get by and throw that into an older Stern game, and it's a little bit hacky, but it works.
    39:48
    But when they kind of, when Bally did the other stuff with, like, 8-Ball Deluxe and other games like that, no, it's a different set of connectors and everything else. They did a little different thing with it. So no on that. Okay. So basically, you know, long story short, the sauna driver board and lint driver board, easily they can go in any game you want without any problem. Boom, boom, done. Those are the most easy ones to do. Before we go there, I just want to finish one thing up with the replacement boards in Stern Games, the Alltechs and the rest of them. I've only tried out, you know, Alltech from a couple years ago, and, you know, it does a really nice job in most games. But I found when I had one in my Quicksilver, the sounds weren't just the same as a real stirring board in there. It was different. It didn't sound quite right to me. But I think only if you really know the game really well, you're going to notice that. But I notice this stuff. I play these games so often. I grew up with them. I can tell differences. I'd love to kind of get the Weebly board, Andrew's board in here, and try that and see if his is different. But I think what it is, it's the CPU. The sounds run directly up the CPU, and I think by maybe a different flavor of the CPU they're using now versus the older one, I think it changes the sound a little bit somehow. But that's just a little factoid there. I would never notice it but I know you would and I know probably every single one of your games has an original NPU in it you probably but you are correct sir right but you know I probably not far off either that you know the hobbyist most people are putting you know new boards I see it all the time people are just getting rid of the old stuff because it's you know if you don't have the skill set to keep it repaired you know the other ones let's face it are close to bulletproof sometimes well right right it's not as long as the connectors are done and yeah right go through all that but sure you and i do that with our games it's it's funny i was out on on pin side trying to help somebody and god forbid i don't know why i did this um but it felt like the accusation of well did you change the connectors it's like i was changing connectors before you even thought about changing connectors so you know i i i felt like i was being talked down to and i'm like i'm just trying to help you and it wasn't even a connector question it's like did you start with maybe the rectifier board is crap and probably start there that's usually you that's usually where we start from. You need good power. You need good connectors. These connectors are old. They've been only good for so many insertions, so many on and offs, and then they're toasty. They're not springy anymore. No, I know that. You know that. You know I've done all my games, and it's a pain in the neck, but you want a game that's reliable? That's the way to do it. You know what it is? We get a lot of people out there new to the hobby a couple years in, and they don't really realize there's people here that have been a long time with Rec Games Pinball and so forth, been around the block a long time, more time than they are. It's like, you know, you don't know who you're talking to out here. We kind of, around the block, we kind of, you know. I kind of look at it in a different light. It's like I've suffered a lot more than you have. There you go. Yeah, exactly. We suffered through it. We know that. Dave, why don't you tell us a little bit about the parts or restoration parts that are available for Quicksilver? well years ago when i was start first time restoring these there's not really much available at all you had to go on ebay and find stuff and i really scored a while back when um i found a cheetah new world stock playfield years ago on ebay for i don't know i think it was like 100 bucks 150 bucks or whatever i scored that puppy and sent it out to my clear coat guy and that was great since sold that game but that was an awesome cheetah i had um but otherwise uh later in the game, John Greatwitch. He was at one point in his career there, hooked up with some of the CPR guys a little bit, and they kind of branched off a little bit, and he started taking on the task of classic Stern stuff, and he did pretty much all the back classes, or a lot of them, like Stargazer, Sea Witch, Nineball. Oh, I do remember that now. I forgot all about that. Oh, yeah. He did Stargazer Playfield, Sea Witch Playfield, the problem was with it and I bought a couple of them is the color wasn't quite right it's not quite you know for a lot of people it's fine but for me I don't know I just like things a certain way I want to be as close to original as possible so the blue and the stargazer wasn't you know a really correct match for me and just the see which one I don't know it looked okay but it's just like the one I have in my game is fine anyway as it is and so is my stargazer really so i you know but i still have a stargazer playfield anyway i'm keeping just in case the stargazer comes another stargazer they only made 863 i believe of those whenever it comes away again and needs one i can always throw it in there um but merco they did a really nice job um of uh quick silver just now and i bought those for those unfamiliar sorry to interrupt for those unfamiliar they're a german-based company right yes german-based company they've done i first got one of their play fields for funhouse i have my wife's favorite game and um that that looks spectacular colors are spot on clear coated um everything is nice on it and that looked great so i know when they were doing this play field it's like i definitely i saw pictures like okay um it looked great so i i scored a couple of those one for me and one for i'm doing my best friend Paul since kindergarten. We used to ride to our arcade all the time on bikes all the time. I hung out there constantly.
    45:55
    You've spoke of PJ several times in our past episodes. So I think people are becoming familiar with PJ. Oh yeah, we bonded all these stirring games, especially Quicksilver. We loved playing that one. So he brought me his to restore. Unfortunately, he had storage problems for his games. He had to put them in an unheated storage facility for, I don't know, a couple years. And this Quicksilver was in there. It's like, oh, you know, I hate to look at this thing. He pulled it out, and it's like rusty inside, and the playfield is kind of crap. It's all so bad. But these playfields became available. So I said, PJ, don't lose hope here. We've got a brand-new playfield to put in. It's going to be great. So he said, go for it. Let's make a really nice Quicksilver like I have for him. So I bought a couple of them. So I'm going to be doing that restoration for him down the road a piece. How much did those set you back? Those were somewhere around $900, $800 or so. Somewhere around there, $800, $900. I forget. Even with the shipping? The shipping. It was under a grand. It was under a grand with shipping.
    47:00
    Well, okay. What about – so that's on the horizon. You're going to do, I'm guessing, both your game and his game at some point in time? yeah I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna do his game I'm gonna do his game his game definitely needs it my original play field is still really nice so I have so many other things to restore before this one that need it more than this game does my original game is great so I'm gonna do his and see how it plays and see if I really like it even more than mine then I'll say okay maybe I'll do mine you know when I can get some free time I'm like the house repair guy or the house carpenter that... You're always busy. What were you working on today, you told me? 8-ball? 8-ball deluxe.
    47:49
    We got a 1983 1984. Yeah, the Bally Midway one. The swing-out head. The one that's second in demand compared to the 81. Not the short-head version that you can find everywhere that no one really wants. This is the one that people want still. and I found a nice copy of it and I put new side reels on it. Is this a customer game? This is your game? It's my game I bought but I already have it pre-sold to a customer.
    48:19
    It's already spoken for. I'm going to be delivering a short link for him and it's going to be going up to him here.
    48:28
    Let's bring it back on track. I'll circle around. What about back glasses? BG Resto the only person that can bail you out if you got a garbage back glass yeah BG Resto is pretty much you know at this point where you can get the back glasses for these and they're you know they're decent not as good as an original what about Great Witch John did he do that back glass he did those but not up to really stuff for me anyway for a lot of people sure I mean look better than nothing but I understand what you're saying yeah better than nothing but it's like computer original take the original you know right but you and I both know other than I can only think of one person who might have those and we talked did we talk about him in one of the episodes Mike Pacek oh yeah yeah yes I think we did you did mention when he was on Pickers and he's going through the filing cabinets and then he's got this like rack of back glasses I just I'm like I wonder what the heck is in that stack I'm sure I wasn't the only one oh I still haven't seen an episode I gotta check that out yeah it's yeah other than them almost killing themselves trying to take a evil Knievel out of the rafters which I think I said might have been staged. Who knows? They stage a lot of crap. They do. It's Hollywood. It's scripted reality. It's all Hollywood. It's Hollywood.
    50:14
    Okay. I mean, on the restoration end, I can't think of anything else that would be. I mean, Cabinets is pretty simple.
    50:24
    As long as you've got all the mechs, it sounds like you can get the game back together. I wanted the plastics for these too. Oh, I forgot about that. I'm sorry. So who did those? Those weren't around for the longest time, and only until recently.
    50:39
    I got a set, but I forget where I got them from. But they're out there. But not CPR. Not CPR. I don't think it was CPR. It was somebody else. Pretty sure it was somebody else that did them. It doesn't matter. They were out there. They're out there. If you need to, everything is basically there if you want to restore the game.
    51:03
    Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, you can definitely restore the game. The hardest thing is the back glass, but you can do BG Resto, and you get pretty darn close. They do the only thing with BG Resto, the colors are pretty nice and so forth. Sometimes it's not quite as sharp as it should be, but it's definitely, you know, it's like 95% there, you know. For the average person, not the crazy collector, given that we saw Stern release Sea Witch, what do you think the odds of them releasing this game, Quicksilver,
    51:43
    is as a repro? My question's kind of complex. as a repro by itself, so Quicksilver with all the new Stern mechs under another title, i.e. like Beatles, whatever that means. Well, I know, first of all, they'd be crazy not to because Quicksilver is a better game than Sea Witch.
    52:06
    Right, but follow me. This is where I really want to say, and you're not alone, the cry is from a lot of other people, that Beatles plays differently than an original. And, yes, I agree, it does.
    52:24
    Why couldn't someone remanufacture all the mechs for a Quicksilver? It doesn't seem like it's pretty complex. I mean, it was the original type of game. Well, you'd have to retool. You'd have to retool it. And their tooling now is for their modern Stern stuff. So they want to use what they got and what their tooling is all about. They can go from game to game, and that's what they are stuffing. Take it one more level for me. When you say tooling, I think of, I shove this to a manufacturer. I'm not going to get into where or who, but a manufacturer, you send them and they say, you buy a thousand of these target banks, this is what it's going to cost you. I'm guessing that they have the molds or somebody has the molds for the targets. And I'm just looking at it. It's a saucer. It's two target banks.
    53:24
    Other than that, there's not a lot of complexity there. You know that. Right. Yep, that's true. So follow me. I'm a little out there with this. But what prohibits Stern from having two different lines? The classic line, because you know they've got some great games that people would buy in a heartbeat, or do you redesign the games and modernize them because that's what people want? Well, here's the thing. Back a couple years, I remember this exact thread on, I think, Pinside and Rec Games Pinball, even older. and I've actually been vocal about it way back when. Instead of all the new games with the ramps and the lights and the toppers and whatever and the video modes, why don't we go back to the popular old school stuff that's actually very popular in all these classic tournaments you see now. You see, I think, Papa or Pinberg, when they register for that, what is it, gone within about, what, five minutes?
    54:29
    To get the answer, you'll have to listen to part two of Quicksilver. Don't listen if you don't want to hear our Star Wars exchange, but you'll miss one of the most explosive pinball stories you'll ever hear.
    54:43
    A can't and don't miss.