Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 21 Interivew with Charlie and Bug from Spooky Pinball!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Aug 13, 2019
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Spooky Pinball reveals 3 games in development, discusses Alice Cooper success and future plans.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast hosts Drew and Scott Ian visit Spooky Pinball headquarters in Benton, Wisconsin for an in-depth interview with CEO Charlie Emery and his son Bug. They discuss the success of Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, the company's design philosophy, team expansion with new programmers Eric and Bowen Kerins, future roadmap including Matt Scott's second game, and Charlie's perspective on market saturation in the pinball industry. The company confirms three games currently in development and reaffirms their commitment to limited 500-unit production runs.

Key Claims

  • Spooky Pinball has delivered over 1,500 pinball machines to date

    high confidence · Charlie Emery states this directly during the interview at Spooky headquarters

  • Alice Cooper and Total Nuclear Annihilation are Spooky's two best-selling games back-to-back

    high confidence · Charlie explicitly confirms both titles as their top sellers

  • Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle is limited to 500 units with no plans for additional production runs

    high confidence · Charlie gives a 'hard no' to producing more Alice Cooper units beyond the announced 500

  • Spooky Pinball currently has three games in development

    high confidence · Charlie states: 'we're three games out. Like, we are sitting on the next' and 'we're three games out' in development

  • Matt Scott's second game is targeted for release around Christmas, same timeframe as Alice Cooper production wrap

    high confidence · Charlie confirms timeline goal to wrap Alice Cooper and launch Matt Scott's game 'about the same time'

  • Total Nuclear Annihilation will receive a second run with cosmetic changes

    high confidence · Charlie discusses TNA rerun with 'little cosmetic things' changing but same gameplay

  • Alice Cooper was actively incorporated into his stage show by Alice's team without Spooky's prior knowledge

    high confidence · Charlie describes receiving email from Alice's manager Shep Gordon revealing the game is now featured on Alice's revamped stage show

  • Charlie believes the pinball market is approaching saturation

    medium confidence · Charlie states 'I think the market at this point is we're about hitting the saturation point if we're not already there' but acknowledges he was wrong about this 3-4 years ago

Notable Quotes

  • “We're Spooky Pinball LLC, located in Benton, Wisconsin. To date, we have delivered a little over 1,500 pinball machines.”

    Charlie Emery @ Early interview section — Establishes Spooky's production scale and company identity

  • “Nope. Okay. Never. So that is an official no from Charlie. That was a hard no, folks.”

    Charlie Emery (with Scott Ian commentary) @ Mid-interview — Clarifies Spooky's firm commitment to limited 500-unit runs regardless of demand

  • “We're three games out. Like, we are sitting on the next.”

    Charlie Emery @ Late interview section — Major revelation that Spooky has three unrevealed games in development pipeline

  • “I have one more in me... I'm 51 years old next week... I seriously want to give. I mean, I look at Keith Elwin at Sam Stern, and I look at Eric over at Jersey Jack Pinball, and I look at Matt Scott. But there's more of those guys out there, and I want to see younger talent get a shot.”

    Charlie Emery @ Mid-interview design discussion — Indicates Charlie plans to step back from design after one more game, prioritizing new talent development

  • “I think the market at this point is we're about hitting the saturation point if we're not already there.”

    Charlie Emery @ Final market discussion section — Charlie's assessment of industry-wide market conditions and future growth concerns

  • “Alice has a brand new stage show. They literally made it Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle... the first time in a decade, he completely revamps his stage show, and now our game is on stage.”

    Charlie Emery @ Mid-interview, discussing Alice Cooper integration — Highlights unprecedented integration of a pinball game into an artist's touring stage show

  • “He Papa Duke much gave us creative freedom to run with it... Told us from the get-go, I just want my grandkids to be able to play this, so keep the cursing and the nudity and all that stuff out.”

    Charlie Emery @ Design philosophy discussion — Shows Alice Cooper's collaborative approach and family-friendly design constraints that benefited the game

Entities

Charlie EmerypersonBug EmerypersonDrewpersonScott IanpersonMatt ScottpersonBowen KerinspersonDavid Van Nessperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle shipped and in customer hands; production wrapping by Christmas 2018

    high · Charlie discusses wrapping up Alice Cooper production and mentions the game is being delivered (Drew bought one and took it home)

  • ?

    machine_intel: Three unrevealed Spooky Pinball games currently in development pipeline

    high · Charlie: 'we're three games out. Like, we are sitting on the next.' Emphasized this is a Poor Man's exclusive first reveal

  • ?

    product_launch: Total Nuclear Annihilation second run planned with cosmetic changes, no gameplay changes

    high · Charlie discusses TNA as fallback/security blanket with cosmetic variants planned

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Eric hired as second programmer at Spooky Pinball; Bowen Kerins expanded design role

    high · Charlie credits Eric with developing Matt Scott's second game and Bowen with Alice Cooper rules work

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Spooky planning pre-built inventory for next game launch to improve time-to-market

    high · Charlie: 'when this thing wraps up, we want to have some of Matt Scott's game already built' to avoid Alice Cooper delays

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky reaffirms commitment to 500-unit limited runs with no plans for production scaling

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.086

0:00
What are you drinking today? It's the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast with Drew and Ian. Welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Everyone's seventh favorite pinball podcast, including my own. Thank you everybody for joining us today I am alone in the studio It's pretty quiet It's not nearly as much fun without Drew But we had an interview with Charlie We went to, Drew and I We went to Spooky Headquarters And right there on the shop floor We did an interview with Charlie and Bug It was fantastic They got to give us a little tour of the facility and it was pretty cool. I got to tell you, it's a smaller space. It's very intimate, but it is definitely 100% pinball and it is kind of infectious. I loved every second of it. We got to meet Charlie's wife and some of the line workers and it was a pretty phenomenal experience. So without further ado, I will just kind of insert the interview we did with Charlie and Bug. I'm sorry about the noise because, like I said, this is right in the middle of their workday. They're hustling and bustling trying to get all these Alice Coopers out. Drew did buy an Alice Cooper. We had to drag that bastard home, and, man, we played it for a good hour, and it's so nice. That's such a cool game. I don't know. There's something about everything that just kind of comes together with that game. It really is a world under glass. And the coding, the animations, the shots, the sculpts, everything comes together in that game. It's a beautiful game. So if you have not played that game, please find a place to play it. It is fantastic. But without further ado, the interview.
2:15
Well, welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Today we are at the magical kingdom of Spooky. And with us we have, well, Drew, of course, my beautiful co-host. Hey, guys. He is beautiful. And Charlie and Bob. Guys, thank you for letting us hang out here for a bit and take up all your lovely work hours. Thanks for hanging out with us here under the air conditioner. It is nice in here. It's a little muggy and rainy outside here in Benton, Wisconsin, but we're here and we're happy to be here. Yes, sir. You know, typically the only podcast that happens in Benton is ours, so it's kind of cool to have you guys come down here. I'm really happy to hear that. That validates what we're doing. Like live from the factory. You can hear work happening in the background. All the ambient noises and potential bleeps in the background. You never know. Oh, we don't bleep anything out. Yeah, our show is not family-friendly, so go for it, buddy. This will be more of a family-friendly interview, though. Yeah, we'll be okay. We're not drinking today. Hi, Mom.

  • “I think if one comes out new in box, I'll probably be in line for that. It's fun because, I mean, Total Nuclear and Alice Cooper back-to-back are like night and day difference.”

    Scott Ian (host) @ Post-Alice Cooper discussion — Demonstrates strong interest in TNA rerun and contrasts design philosophies between the two games

  • “We don't want the delays and crap that we had on Alice. So that's what we're doing. When this thing wraps up, we want to have some of Matt Scott's game already built.”

    Charlie Emery @ Production planning section — Indicates Spooky is improving manufacturing pipeline to avoid previous delays

  • “You heard it here first, folks. So, for Spooky Pinball, who's always been a seat of the pants, you know, live and die by the next thing coming up. Three games. Three games in development right now.”

    Scott Ian (host reaction) @ Late interview revelation — Host emphasizes the significance of Spooky having pipeline visibility (3 games in development)

    • Eric
    person
    Katie Emeryperson
    Alice Cooperperson
    Shep Gordonperson
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
    Total Nuclear Annihilationgame
    Matt Scott's second gamegame
    Rob Zombie's Spookshow Internationalgame
    The Simpsonsgame
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Ben Heckperson
    Streets of Fireproduct

    high · Charlie gives 'hard no' to expanding Alice Cooper beyond 500 units; states company is 'content with 500 games a year'

  • $

    market_signal: Charlie Emery expresses concern about pinball market saturation point being reached

    medium · Charlie: 'I think the market at this point is we're about hitting the saturation point if we're not already there' but notes he was wrong 3-4 years ago

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Alice Cooper's stage show incorporated Spooky's pinball game without prior notice, demonstrating strong IP partnership

    high · Charlie received email from Alice's manager Shep Gordon revealing game is now featured in revamped stage show after decade

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Charlie Emery transitioning from hands-on design to company leadership; planning one final design then stepping back

    high · Charlie: 'I think I have one more in me' and wants to give opportunity to younger talent like Matt Scott and Eric

  • ?

    community_signal: Ben Heck relationship with Spooky being rebuilt after period of tension

    medium · Scott Ian mentions Ben Heck was gifted vinyl album and bridge-building happening 'one Jim Steinman album at a time'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Spooky Pinball expanding team structure: supply chain management, daughter handling distribution, multiple floor workers

    high · Charlie credits daughter with supply chain management, Katie with sales/coordination, Luke and AJ and others on floor

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community reception of Alice Cooper shifted from slow launch to extremely positive response

    high · Charlie: 'It's been extremely positive' after noting 'slow launch' that gave time for rules refinement

    • 3:17
    Charlie, anyone who has been living under a rock for the last six or seven years, just tell us a little bit about who you are and your company. Just maybe a brief little summary, if you could. Sure. We're Spooky Pinball LLC, located in Benton, Wisconsin.
    3:34
    To date, we have delivered a little over 1,500 pinball machines. Oh, that's awesome. Which is still mind-boggling to me that that has actually happened from a town of 900 people. But, yeah, a little startup pinball company that February 1st of 2020 will be our seventh year, so we're a little over six and a half years ahead of us. Congratulations. And as Terry at Pinball Life tells me, hey, congratulations, you outlasted Capcom and Sega.
    4:01
    You can hang your hat on that, sir. That's pretty cool. You did that. That's two pretty notable companies, so that's awesome. Good for you guys. And our two best-selling games are Total Nuclear Annihilation and Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. Back to back. So let's talk about the many 300-pound elephants in the room. Right now we are looking at all these Alice Cooper Nightmare Castles.
    4:26
    The game rocks. It's awesome. Thank you. Pun intended there, of course, of Alice Cooper. We hope so. How did this amazing game come together? Alice Cooper?
    4:38
    Well, we had done the Rob Zombie Spook Show International game, and that was the first game that I personally had designed and Rob and Alice share the same marketing team and the minute that we signed the deal with Rob Zombie, they were after us like Alice really wants a game. And I mean, growing up an Alice Cooper fan and loving all things horror and metal and rock and, you know, how could you say no? And especially when somebody is as nice a human being as Alice Cooper is. He seems that way. He is ridiculous. Oh, that's awesome. And at the time, guaranteed work sounded great.
    5:17
    I mean, quite honestly. Bug is not going to mince words, folks. And it doesn't hurt that Alice Cooper is Bug's all-time favorite rock star. That's awesome. That is super cool. But licenses are getting harder and harder to come by and harder to work with because as the physical media dries up from records and DVDs and films and all that kind of stuff, they have to put more emphasis on the other licensed merchandising. And with Alice Cooper, it was absolutely not that way. He pretty much gave us creative freedom to run with it and have a good time. Told us from the get-go, I just want my grandkids to be able to play this, so keep the cursing and the nudity and all that stuff out. That's got to make the project that much better for you. It really does. When you have free reign and you can kind of do what you want to do. Because Rob was the exact opposite. He wanted all kinds of cursing and nudity, which is great, too. And, I mean, that game is what it is. It has its place. It does. But to do something that was just kind of an old-school 1950s EC horror comic vibe with classic monsters and Alice Cooper being your narrator, absolutely awesome. Who came up with that comic book idea? That was me. Way to go, Charlie. I'll take the credit for that. Can we insert applause in there later, Ian? I haven't taken the applause button off. We're still applauding. That's very cool. That is a very cool part of that game, for sure. I came up with the concept and my guys basically just ran with the rules. Having Bowen and David Fosma and Scott Denise and all these guys behind us and David Van Ness.
    6:45
    At some point, I just get to step back and see what they come up with. And to me, that's the beauty of it. I love watching somebody take what I did and just make it so much better. Awesome. What do you think about the reaction and the response from the pinball community? It's been extremely positive. I mean yeah it was a little bit of a slow launch with the game and that was totally my fault And I blame Scott D for having such a killer game that just would not stop selling in total nuclear annihilation Damn you Scott Damn you Scott Darn it We're all shaking our fists at you right now. But no, it bought us a little more time to kind of get the game where it needed to be rules-wise and just get it right. And going forward, obviously we want to improve on that, and I think we are well underway for doing that. But, yeah, man, I mean, I love what the game has turned into, and I love the response that everybody has had with it. Now, we talked a little bit about this before the interview, but just so our listeners know, I know this is a limited run, 500, right?
    7:47
    Would you be open to producing more if demand increases? Nope. Okay. Never. So that is an official no from Charlie. That was a hard no, folks. If you guys have not got your order in, get it in now. we've been that way from day one when we announce a game is limited we don't mean that there's going to be ten different versions of it there's going to be one version the number that we say we're going to make is what we're going to make and we want to stick to that where does our bond well my next three questions are out except for Total Nuclear because we've always said we will make more of those go ahead I like what I love about Alice Cooper when I stand over it you could have gone another direction you could have went with the traditional music that you see so often in pinball but instead you kind of gave it more of a narrative you wouldn't know it was an Alice Cooper until you actually booted up see the back glass, you mentioned the EC Comics but what specifically got you into the Nightmare Castle theme of it I grew up on the old school horror host TV and I love Universal Monsters So the idea of kind of taking Alice Cooper in an Elvira-esque direction where he was a host. Yes. But obviously not going to be on TV, so where do you put him? You put him in the castle full of monsters. I love it. And we were completely blown away here just a couple weeks ago when we finally got to see the new tour. Alice has got a brand new stage show. They literally made it Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. So, like, the first time in a decade, he completely revamps his stage show, and now our game is on stage. And it's just, I mean, talk about a mind scrambler. Yeah, I mean, that never should have happened in a million years. Was that Alice's idea then to go? It was completely them. We had no idea. Obviously he loves the game. Yeah. We walked into the venue in Dubuque, Iowa, like a little less than a week after the tour had started, and as I was walking in, I quick-checked my email, make sure there's no customer questions or anything I need to answer, and I have an email from Alice's manager, Shep Gordon, and he's like, if you think it looks familiar, it's because it is. And, yeah, I was just, it got a little emotional and weird. Sure, sure. It was kind of a high watermark in my life. Cool. No, it was very cool. Other than having kids, of course, right, Bob? Yeah. Bob, you're doing great. Bob, you're number three now. Thank you, Alice Cooper, and your sister. Aw. Whoa. Hey, I understand.
    10:28
    So you mentioned TNA with a second run. Do you guys have a timeline on that? It's going to be when something bad happens here. Okay.
    10:38
    Oh, crap. No, honestly, it's our fail safe. It's our fallback. We're going to be running Alice Cooper right up until Christmas. We hope to release Scott's second game right about that same time. Sure. And you know you have that just kind of in the back pocket. We've never had any kind of a security blanket here ever. We've always been in a rush to get games done to keep the doors open and to actually be ahead of the game, all pun intended, on Scott's second release and to have that total nuclear. We're still getting calls literally every single week asking for more total nuclear annihilation. So we've discussed it. We know it's going to be a little bit different. I mean, it won't be anything different in the gameplay or anything dramatic, but some little cosmetic things are going to change, and we'll call it TNA 2.0 or something different. Nice. But, yeah, the world will see more Total Nuclears. That is so good to hear for the pinball community at large. It's a great game. It's still my favorite game that we've played. You know, I've looked at them long and hard, and I think if one comes out new in box, I'll probably be in line for that. It's fun because, I mean, Total Nuclear and Alice Cooper back-to-back are like night and day difference. Total Nuclear is just pure straight-up competitive button heads with your friends, pinball. And then Alice has got the deeper rule set, a little bit more challenging. Yes. And to have the two kind of as a contrast to each other is really, really cool. More challenging than getting to Reactor 9? I don't think I'll ever get there to be honest. I might actually be able to beat Alice Cooper. I've gotten close a couple times, but Reactor 9?
    12:14
    That's a tough one. That is a tough one. So, Charlie, you're growing as a designer. We watched kind of your progression throughout all these games. Yeah, I'm hoping to stop soon.
    12:25
    I was going to ask, describe kind of the process when you were designing this and you sat down, just shots and layouts. You know, kind of what were you thinking about? Did any games influence you on some of the shots? I took a little abuse on Rob Zombie for it being such a non-traditional layout from, like, the hardcore guys. They want flow, and, ah, this game doesn't flow back, and I get all that. we knew what it was when we made it I'm still very proud of it but on Alice we definitely wanted to keep it challenging but really give the player a lot to do so I wanted to make sure that the shots were flowing back to the flipper so you had more control and I do love a good upper playfield and I was never completely thrilled with the way that the Rob Zombie upper playfield came out and I wanted to show that I could do better with Alice and I, I think we did that in spades. That game, that upper play field is just fantastic. And you did. It's fun. It's fun, fun, fun. I almost feel like an upper play field, if it's done great, it shouldn't even feel like an upper play field. Which is what Alice Fulber does. Feel like a game. Kind of like Simpsons is one of the notable ones. Yeah, there you go. I have one of those at my house. I love it. Great game. That's one of the best upper play fields, in my opinion. And then I played your game. And I'm not just saying this because I'm here. I think it's better than the Simpsons upper play field. Thank you. Because it's right in the center, and to Ian's point, it doesn't feel like it's just a place there. It actually has a lot of purpose in the game. Yeah, and a lot to do. I mean, sometimes the best thing to do is just not do anything and let it roll past and lock the ball. That is very cool. And other times it's beneficial to backhand the guillotine or go after Frankenstein or collect the extra ball. I mean, there's a lot to do up there. And your bonus rollovers. And one is rolling back to your left flipper, and the other is going down to the subway. I mean, there's so much going on up there. And yeah I really proud of that Yeah you should be Is Charlie going to keep designing games Is that something on the docket or are you going to start farming some of that out I think I have one more in me Okay. He's got one more in him, folks. I think I have one more in me. He's warming up his arm, his shoulder. You won't see it for a while, thank goodness. We have other people now. But I've said from the get-go, it's a lot of stress, it's a lot of pressure, it's a lot of work. and I'm 51 years old next week.
    14:48
    You don't look a day over 49, sir. I think 10 years of that age came in the last six months. That'll happen. I seriously want to give. I mean, I look at Keith Elwin at Stern, and I look at Eric over at JJP, and I look at Scott Denise. Thank God we have one of those guys. But there's more of those guys out there, and I want to see younger talent get a shot. The old guard has been here forever, and it's really, really cool to kind of see that turning the corner a bit. And, yeah, man, I don't hold any ego in that regard. I would just assume run the company and let talented people be talented people and do what they do best. So, Bug, when's your next design coming out, then?
    15:32
    I'm hoping someday to co-design with Dad. I know he says he's got one left in him, but I'm hoping I can get one and a half out of him. There you go. Well, yeah, I'm always going to be here for that. But, yeah, I would love to co-design a game with Dad and then maybe do more in the future. But, you know, I'm just happy to be here. What he's learning is all... We're in the same boat. We're all happy to be here. Buck's learning all the jobs on the floor first, and he's actually going to be going to trade school and high school at the same time here in a few weeks. Not because I like school, but because I want to be done with it sooner. Yeah, okay. What trade school? NICC. I'm going for computer-aided drafting. Oh, cool. stuff that helps here so I can take some stress off of dad and not have to build games all the time and sit at the computer for a little bit. You'll design all the mechs for the next game. Yeah. Awesome. We'll lock him in a room with Scott Denise after he gets out of college and a bunch of mad scientists going to work, right? Yep. So let's talk about some of these new team members you have brought on board, Bowen Cairns, right, and Eric Kripke. Yep. So tell us what their new roles are and what they're working on. Eric's main job in life right now is to get a whole bunch of pressure off of David Cosma. I mean, a lot of the early growing pains are you can only, you know, your payroll's only so big. And your design team has, you're expected to do a lot with a very small team. And the fact that Alice Cooper is as good as it is is a real testament to the other name you mentioned there too, Bowen. and David Fosma because he's had the time to focus on nothing but Alice Cooper while Eric is way into developing Scott's next game. So no more of this BS of when you see a spooky game, it's going to be so light in code, we show up and set it to one ball at a show. We want a lot in there, ready to rock. And, yeah, I mean, Eric's been fantastic. You know, he really nailed it on Cactus Canyon Continued. We knew he had the chops, especially with the P-Rock system. And, yeah, man, it's been good for everybody. David Van Ness, our animator, is literally right now building a house a block and a half from here right next to ours. So, I mean, the commitment from my team and the growth has been phenomenal. I think David Van Ness is, if he's not quite Jean-Paul DeWin, man, he's chomping at his ankles. and when we were at Texas, John Paul came over and pulled David aside and he was just, man, your stuff's really good. I hope David took that as big of a compliment as the rest of us did and I think he's right. I think our animations are as good, if not better, than everybody. They are beautiful. Even Kaneda can't pick it apart, so you know you're doing all right. We love you, Chris.
    18:20
    He's giving high praise to the game. Of course. Chris is a complex individual and he's been really, really nice. So eloquently there, Charlie. No, he is what he is, man. And I all love and respect him. I totally understand it. You know, when we bump into each other and we talk all the time, he's pretty basically a good dude. Yeah, we love him too. Is there anyone else on your team you want to give a shout-out to? Everybody. Okay. Good God, yeah. Your team can't be emphasized enough. No, no, it's not me, man. It's Luke behind me here running the floor, and his brother's on the floor now and AJ and Hammer and everybody across this building that works in here.
    19:00
    It's huge. And, you know, having my daughter now out of college and doing the supply chain management deal with her mom and kind of helping take some of the pressure off Katie so that the sales and purchasing and all that stuff is handled the way it should be so we don't have slowdowns and screw-ups like when I did it.
    19:18
    It's, yeah, it's everybody. There's really no one-man job for any part of the operation. It's really team work. Yeah, we walked in here, Ian and I, and everyone was just very welcoming and polite and great. We got a tour with Bug, and everyone's just been fantastic.
    19:36
    It's like it's Wisconsin or something. Yeah, almost like it's these nice Wisconsin folks. Katie's been my contact for the Alice Cooper that I picked up today, and she's doing nothing short of amazing with just constant e-mails, communication. We asked to do this interview. She said, you know, sure, and I'll just make sure he's available because I know Charlie didn't have any say in it. Yeah.
    20:00
    I'm always available. So, no, we just really appreciate you guys opening your doors for us. Yeah. And game, the next game timeline you're looking at, what, wrapping up here in December, you said? I know you can't give me any details, details, else but when can people expect or anticipate the next game i will tell you the the goal is to wrap up alice cooper and launch about the same time obviously there's going to be a little bit of a overlap there and uh again we can't really say no what exactly is going to happen in that regard as to when you're going to see it and hear about it uh there are other forces at work not just scott Denise and me and everybody else involved, there's a lot going on with that thing. There we go. And the goal is to have it be, when it gets announced, it's going to be a very quick turnaround to seeing real games in the wild. Excellent. We don't want the delay and crap that we had on Alice. So that's what we're doing. When this thing wraps up, we want to have some of Scott's game already built. Beautiful. That's a great thing. That is a great thing. That would be a huge leap forward for Spooky. It takes a lot of time, energy, and money to get to that point. Right, and just organizational in general. Organization in general. So being somebody who's so heavily invested in the pinball community pinball market what do you see happening in the next five years in pinball in general like the marketplace You know I don know It a darn good question And I sure don want to be the doom and gloom guy but I think the market at this point is we about hitting the saturation point if we not already there
    21:46
    I think we've been incredibly blessed that our last two games have been our best games. And, you know, maybe I'm completely wrong. I kind of thought this three, four years ago. and I was totally wrong. So I hope that is the case and that it just continues to grow. You know, we really don't... I want to see all of us make it. I want to see JJP make it. I think they do a great job. I think Chicago Gaming is fantastic. You know, obviously Stern is the water shed for all of it. I mean, they're the ones driving the entire market in a lot of ways.
    22:21
    And, you know, Americans out there, and there's some other startups coming up, and, you know, I think there's room for everybody. if you find your niche, and I think Spooky kind of has done that with where we're at with our limited runs in 500 a year, and that's what we can handle and manage. And we're just trying to give everybody the best possible game you can for your money and keep our prices where they're affordable for everybody.
    22:46
    Well, thank you very much, Charlie, for your time. Drew, do you have any other questions? No, Charlie, this has been... We went through that whole list? That's a big pack of stuff. Well, Drew's hot questions. I couldn't ask about if you're going to ramp up production and produce more games. Because the answer is just no. No, we're very content with 500 games a year. Which I think is awesome. I just want, you know, like down the road, if you had like a second assembly line and, you know, maybe so you could do a TNA while you're doing, you know, a cornerstone game. Well, never say never. And we have run two games at a time before. It's not always ideal. but when necessity calls we can do it and you never know where Spooky will land here down the road and speaking of that what about some of the contract games is that something that you guys have talked to anybody else for those of you who don't know Charlie did a game for Domino's Pizza and he did a game for Nick Parks and Jetson they were great opportunities especially when you're an up-and-coming young company and you have no guaranteed jobs or income, to have somebody walk in and say, hey, you're going to build 100 games for us, is absolutely a godsend. And it's a big part of how we got to where we are.
    24:08
    We're lucky enough right now that I can, I don't think we've even said this on our podcast, but we're three games out. Like, we are sitting on the next. You heard it here first, folks. So, for Spooky, who's always been a seat of the pants, you know, live and die by the next thing coming up. Three games. Three games in development right now. That is awesome. And that is unreal to even be saying those words. It's nothing that I, I didn't think we would get here at this stage, but it feels really good. I have to save up so much money now. Thanks, Charlie. Well, I didn't say you were going to see them all really fast. Don't worry, you don't know my job. They are in development. I'm a poor man pinball podcast for a reason. And is Eric Kripke, is he going to be sticking around for a long time? Well, we sure hope so. Okay. We'd like to see Eric do bigger and more wonderful things for Spooky Down the Road. And, you know, we've discussed it. He's got kids in college and stuff like that too and real-life things to deal with. And for now, we're just thrilled to have him as programmer number two on the team. Awesome. But never say never. I'd take that guy in heartbeat. I think it's Captain Uzi and Art B. We keep all these guys by my way. They're all good friends, and they're all good people, and they're all great talents.
    25:27
    Only Drew and I have some discernible skills. We'd be picking up an application. We have ideas, but no follow-through.
    25:36
    This is a lot just to do the podcast. This is big for us. We're making so much money doing this. Oh, you too, huh? Yeah.
    25:43
    We always joke that's how we make our millions on the podcast. Yeah, the podcast is actually keeping Spooky afloat. Yeah. We don't talk about that.
    25:53
    That's what you're saying is on the back phone. Yes. Yeah, the back phone. You need to keep it together. You're doing all that editing is keeping the whole family alive right now. The door's open. Lights on. Awesome. Put it on the table. All right, guys. Well, thank you again for the time. I really appreciate it. Drew?
    26:09
    Just say you love them. I love you guys. I knew it was happening. I am so excited. No, I will. Sincerely. You know, Alice Cooper is in the rental car right now. We're going back to Milwaukee. With Ontario Place. Kathleen, Alice is coming home. You confused me for a minute. I thought they were Canadian. Yeah. Well, I am Canadian, but that's another story.
    26:29
    Eh? Alice Cooper is coming home. I'm really excited to get that in the house and put some time on it because it is just awesome. Go after that werewolf. That's still my favorite mode. That went from my least favorite to my favorite mode. I only watched some video on that where you load the gun. and it's just so cool. Fire the shot and then avoid the red. I think we're going to run out of recording space. I'm telling you how cool this is 100 times over. Well, I like your ghost-locating infrared machine here. It's just straight out of America's Most Haunted. Ben Heck would approve of this totally. Half of this stuff is plastic on here. I don't even think it works. I don't even think I've been recording.
    27:07
    As long as it looks professional, it's professional. There you go. We'll just transcribe this. You mentioned Ben Heck. Is Ben Heck going to do anything else with you guys in the future? Never say never. That's another one. Sure. Yeah. I just, I know he said on Kaneda's podcast, I just got him a copy of Streets of Fire on vinyl. Yeah. So. That's awesome. So, you know, we're softening the, we're softening the tension. The bridge is being built again, folks. That's right. With one Jim Steinman album at a time. Oh, man. It doesn't take many of those albums. Another Poor Man's exclusive, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Well, thank you very much. Thank you much, guys. Thanks for having us on, guys. Appreciate it. Yeah. And that'll about do it for the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, episode number 21. Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next week. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye.
    28:12
    We'll be right back.