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Episode 5 - So far so good

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·39m 28s·analyzed·Jul 18, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

SWL Podcast episode celebrates early success and reviews current manufacturer pipelines and market rumors.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discuss the early success of Special When Lit Pinball Podcast (episode 5), share positive community feedback, and review the current state of major pinball manufacturers. They cover Stern's Iron Maiden, Jersey Jack's Pirates of the Caribbean delays and Hobbit code updates, Spooky's Alice Cooper game, American Pinball's Houdini, and rumors about upcoming Stern releases (Deadpool, Munsters). They also address manufacturing and business challenges facing some smaller companies.

Key Claims

  • Special When Lit has approximately 1,200 total downloads across four episodes in 12 days

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell stated directly: 'we're around 1,200 total downloads for four episodes that we've launched'

  • Kaneda's Pinball Podcast is the forerunner in pinball podcasting listenership

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell: 'the forerunner it seems like in the pinball podcasting right now is is kaneda and kaneda's pinball podcast'

  • Jersey Jack removed the concentric ring mechanism from Pirates of the Caribbean due to reliability concerns

    high confidence · Bill Webb: 'they had overcome that that the concentric ring issue where they ultimately decided that design was not going to work in the game as intended so they replaced it with something that's more reliable'

  • Jersey Jack's Hobbit is at version 4.0 code and continuing to receive updates based on user feedback

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell: 'they're over or at or over version 3.0 right now' and Bill confirms 'It's 4.0'

  • Iron Maiden (Stern) is difficult to keep in stock and very popular

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell: 'I've talked to some distributors. It's not anything that's easy to keep in stock. It's really, really popular'

  • Stern typically releases new games in March, August, and October annually

    medium confidence · Bill Webb: 'because normally it's like one in March, one in August, one around October'

  • AC/DC vault edition brought prices of existing AC/DC pins in check while providing a new in-box option

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell discussing vault strategy: 'It brought the prices of the existing pins, kept them in check, and then you have a brand new option if you want that new in box'

  • Chicago Gaming Company's next remake announcement was supposed to be at TPF (The Pinball Fest) in March

    medium confidence · Bill Webb: 'this was something that supposedly was going to be revealed at tpf which should have been march of this year'

Notable Quotes

  • “I don't think I could ever go back into the dating scene because I don't know what I'm doing by myself for three days.”

    Ken Cromwell@ 1:00 — Personal anecdote establishing the casual, conversational tone of the podcast

  • “He's brutally honest. You know, maybe sometimes to a fault, but that's not for me to judge.”

    Bill Webb@ 4:34 — Characterizes Kaneda as fearlessly independent and unsponsored in his commentary

  • “He just goes straight to record. And I imagine some of these other podcasters do too. Again, I don't really know what everybody does as far as a daily routine on podcasting.”

    Ken Cromwell@ 6:19 — Reveals Special When Lit's editing approach differs from Kaneda's minimal-post-production model

  • “It's like eating pizza every single night and all of a sudden somebody throws you some good Mexican food.”

    Bill Webb@ 12:44 — Illustrates how Iron Maiden offers a refreshing departure from Stern's typical design DNA

  • “There's nobody else on the planet that wants this game to come out more than him [Eric Mounier].”

    Ken Cromwell@ 14:10 — Emphasizes designer passion and the human cost of production delays

  • “When people just say it sucks for whatever reason, it's kind of disheartening.”

    Bill Webb@ 14:36 — Advocates for recognizing the collective effort behind game development

  • “No pinball machine that's broken is fun. Yeah. Right. I mean, it might be good to look at, but that gets old after a while.”

    Bill Webb / Ken Cromwell@ 16:31 — Defends Jersey Jack's decision to prioritize reliability over novelty mechanisms

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonKanedapersonEric MounierpersonDwight SullivanpersonTerry DeswartpersonChristopher Franchiperson

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit Pinball Podcast achieved ~1,200 downloads across 4 episodes in 12 days with positive community reception and cross-promotion from other established podcasts

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'we're around 1,200 total downloads for four episodes that we've launched... super happy with it'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern's AC/DC vault edition strategy successfully stabilized secondary market prices while providing new inventory option

    medium · Ken: 'It brought the prices of the existing pins, kept them in check, and then you have a brand new option if you want that new in box'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack prioritized manufacturing reliability over novel mechanism (concentric ring) in Pirates of the Caribbean design decision

    high · Bill: 'they had overcome that concentric ring issue where they ultimately decided that design was not going to work in the game as intended so they replaced it with something that's more reliable'

  • ?

    code_update: Jersey Jack continuing substantial code updates (v4.0) to Hobbit years after launch based on user feedback

    high · Ken: 'they're over or at or over version 3.0 right now... At this point... version 4.0'

  • $

    market_signal: Iron Maiden experiencing stock shortages with distributors unable to maintain inventory despite being relatively new release

    high · Ken: 'I've talked to some distributors. It's not anything that's easy to keep in stock. It's really, really popular'

Topics

Podcast growth and community receptionprimaryStern Pinball's current releases and upcoming rumorsprimaryJersey Jack Pinball delays and code support strategyprimaryBoutique/smaller manufacturer progress (Spooky, American Pinball, Chicago Gaming, Homepin)primaryPinball podcasting landscape and community dynamicssecondaryGame reliability vs. novelty trade-offs in designsecondarySecondary market pricing and collector behaviorsecondaryLegal and financial challenges in pinball manufacturingsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.78)— Hosts express enthusiasm for early podcast success, appreciation for community feedback, and optimism about most manufacturers' efforts. They defend manufacturers against criticism and celebrate code updates and design choices. The only notably negative sentiment appears around Big Lebowski's legal troubles and production challenges. Overall tone is supportive of the industry while acknowledging real challenges.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.118

0:00
This special When Lit Pinball podcast is sponsored by Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale, proud supporters of passionate pinball fans. Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the special When Lit Pinball podcast starts now. Thanks for hitting that start button. Here are your hosts, Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. all right thank you for joining us on episode number five of the special when lit pinball
0:30
podcast my name is ken cromwell and my co-host is bill webb who's consequently sitting right next to me what's up bill how's it going good good how are you doing i'm doing well i'm doing well i've got uh briefly the family is out of town wife and kids and i am solo for the first time in the house by myself in a good 12 years. So it's been like the bachelor life for the last 48 hours with about another 24 to go. So is that like learning to fly again?
1:00
Yeah, man. I don't think I could ever go back into the dating scene because I don't know what I'm doing by myself for three days. It's been something that I was looking forward to and it's still nice to have that personal sense of freedom. I have not taken advantage of it at all. So it's eerily quiet in your house and you're just like waiting for something to drop? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was thinking I'm going to come downstairs. I'm going to, you know, pour a couple glasses of bourbon. I'm going to play pinball in my underwear until 3 in the morning and then stumble upstairs and come back and do it the next morning. It hasn't worked out like that as of yet.
1:31
Probably still going to sleep about 9.30, huh? You know what? I'm in bed around 9.30, but I'm not sleeping in that early. I'm up to at least 9.45. Yeah, I mean, that's 15 minutes, man. That makes you wild side right there. Absolutely, absolutely. It's been an interesting 12 to 14 days for us after launching this podcast. We've had largely positive feedback from everyone that we've spoken to, which is greatly appreciated. And we've even had some of the fellow podcasters give us some mention and some positive feedback, and we definitely appreciate that.

  • The Seattle 7 GoFundMe for Big Lebowski legal fees had raised only 720 euros as of the time of recording

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell: 'as of earlier today, I think they had like 720 euros raised or something like that'

  • Eric Mounier (Pirates of the Caribbean designer) stated the game is 'close' to shipping

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell: 'I did reach out to Eric Mounier today, who is the designer on Pirates of the Caribbean, and he actually said exactly what he said. He said they're close'

  • “It commands attention when you walk into a room and you see that.”

    Ken Cromwell@ 17:48 — Emphasizes Hobbit's aesthetic appeal as a major selling point

  • “I guess their vault title for this year was ACDC, right?”

    Bill Webb@ 21:59 — Confirms AC/DC vault edition as part of Stern's product diversification strategy

  • “They're looking, is it 500,000 euros they're looking to raise for the legal fees in order to get themselves out of legal issues with ARA in that lawsuit”

    Ken Cromwell@ 26:56 — Highlights the serious legal and financial challenges facing the Seattle 7 project

    • Zach
    person
    Jeffperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Homepincompany
    Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
    Two Brothers Pinball Pale Alecompany
    Iron Maidengame
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    Big Lebowskigame
    ?

    rumor_hype: Community speculation about Deadpool and Munsters as potential Stern announcements with possible third title; expected late August release window

    medium · Bill: 'We all have heard the rumors that Deadpool and Munsters are two themes that might be popping up at a pinball retailer. If not a third.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Chicago Gaming Company's next remake announcement delayed from TPF March reveal; speculation that code completion and Monster Bash issue addressing may be reasons

    medium · Bill: 'the speculation rumor is that potentially the reason for the delay could be potentially because of adding more code making it more code complete'

  • ?

    business_signal: Seattle 7 Big Lebowski project facing significant legal costs from ARA lawsuit with GoFundMe campaign severely underfunded (only 720 euros toward 500,000 euro goal)

    high · Ken: 'They started the GoFundMe page... They're looking... 500,000 euros... as of earlier today, I think they had like 720 euros raised'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Iron Maiden designed by someone from outside Stern who previously worked on Archer, bringing different design sensibility compared to internal designers

    high · Bill: 'somebody come in from outside of Stern that had developed this for another type of a game, which was the Archer pin, it was kind of refreshing'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Stern historically follows March, August, October release schedule; timing concerns raised about Iron Maiden stock impact on potential August/September release

    medium · Bill: 'because normally it's like one in March, one in August, one around October... why even consider showing anything right now to take the track from potential Iron Maiden sales?'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Despite initial backlash, community sentiment shifted positive regarding Jersey Jack's decision to remove problematic concentric ring mechanism

    medium · Bill: 'I thought they caught a lot of heat on that. But I think that was the right call because when you've got something that doesn't work... it's never going to be right unless you change it'

  • ?

    venue_signal: First Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle unit placed at Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, indicating manufacturer targeting prestigious venues for brand visibility

    high · Ken: 'the first alice cooper's nightmare castle went to the rock and roll hall of fame'

    • 2:06
    And we just wanted to take a minute to kind of point those guys out. Yeah, I mean, the overall review of everything that we've heard has been pretty positive. really happy with that um it got more than 12 light or uh 12 listens which you know i think our goal was uh 15 so we're almost there you know we can talk numbers on this show i don't have a problem with it uh i know that uh well the forerunner it seems like in the pinball podcasting uh right now is is kaneda and kaneda's pinball podcast uh kaneda consequently he he had kind of called us out or mentioned us on one of his podcasts and we did appreciate that
    2:40
    and he gets a lot of listeners. Now, our listening base is going to be smaller at this point, and we realize that, but I think by building some trust here and building some listenership, those numbers will increase, and I think we're around 1,200 total downloads for four episodes that we've launched. So, you know, not bad for a first effort here. Twelve days in, super happy with it, super happy with it. Yeah, I'd say that's really successful considering there was nothing up a month ago. It's fun.
    3:10
    It's just nice to know that the word is kind of getting out there. Also wanted to say thank you to Jeff over at This Week in Pinball. He gave us a little special mention for the Dwight Sullivan interview, which I wanted to discuss with you a little bit later in the show. And then his podcast host, Zach, from Straight Down the Middle Podcast, they talked about us a little bit on their podcast, which was pretty cool. So the head-to-head pinball guys, the Australian guys, were totally ball-busting on us a little bit with our sponsorship, with two brothers. They had a little bit of fun with us in their last podcast.
    3:42
    They one-upped us with the four brothers. They did have the four brothers, so congratulations on their new sponsorship. And they've got some type of a Pal-El studio that they are broadcasting out of now, which I think is kind of cool. I thought it was a gin or bourbon studio or something along those lines. I don't know what's going on, but it was all in good fun. And they linked to us from their pinball podcasting page. So we just wanted to say thanks, guys. Thanks for welcoming us to the podcasting community. So that's pretty cool. So going back for a second, when Kaneda actually mentioned our podcast on his episode,
    4:15
    he was kind of upset that we didn't mention his name. And we didn't have a problem mentioning his name, just we didn't want to use someone's name without really discussing it with him. And we don't think that everything he says is negative. He brings a lot of light to the hobby. And the one thing he always does is tells it how he feels it at that moment. Yeah, definitely give him credit for that. I've got respect for him. If he's not anything, he's brutally honest. You know, maybe sometimes to a fault, but that's not for me to judge. I obviously I listen to these podcasts. And for the most part, I'm always kind of curious to see his side of things and where he's coming from.
    4:49
    So, you know, I can appreciate him being honest. He really doesn't have any loyalty to anybody. He doesn't have a sponsorship where he needs to kind of keep cool and collected. Yeah. You know, that being said, I said his podcast may not be for everybody and that's fine. I just have a tendency to listen to all these podcasts. So, you know, I appreciate it for what it is. He was ball busting, too, a little bit. Yeah, he was. He was making fun of me and my earth shaker playing in the mall and all that kind of stuff. But you know what? I'll take it. No publicity is bad publicity for the most part.
    5:20
    So whatever it takes. No, and you know what? Everyone's got a back story. I mean, come on. How many times has he brought up Bubba? You know, Bubba's almost famous in the pinball community. Yeah, that's probably more famous than Kaneda himself. Yeah, he's got a following. He's got listenership. So, you know, if anything else, you have to respect him for doing that. And he does a solo. I had reached out to him prior to doing this podcast because I was kind of curious as to what went into his production and that sort of thing. And he's the type of guy that you hit record, he sounds off, and he stops.
    5:52
    There's really no post-production with the exception of probably dropping his music in for intros and outros. So that's hard to do, even for the two of us to talk on a consistent basis or to have a guest in the studio with an interview. We have taken breaks. And to the benefit of everybody else, I don't think you want to hear us pausing and babbling in between. No. And the fact that he does it without editing anything, he just goes straight to record. And I imagine some of these other podcasters do too. Again, I don't really know what everybody does as far as a daily routine on podcasting.
    6:26
    can only speak for ourselves, but we're very transparent, happy to discuss our numbers and what we do and what we don't do. Most importantly for us, I think, is that we're having fun doing it. We're trying to spread the word of pinball as if there's enough people doing that, but we want to put our own little spin on it. And we're taking what we like of all these podcasts, I think, and we're trying to create something that's- A melting pot of all of them. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So if, what would I say, the ultimate form of flattery is copying or replication. Yep. So maybe that's where we're at right now.
    6:57
    Well, and, you know, in the mention in This Week in Pinball, they said, you know, this would be the podcast to watch because they're local guys to Chicago. And we are local and we do know a few people, so it's been a little easier for us to get some of these interviews that would be harder to get, you know. Yeah, I think a little bit of a benefit that we've had being local and so close to Chicago and all these pinball manufacturers seem to have a main office or a satellite office out here. And, you know, I think we have fairly good reputations within the pinball community
    7:31
    with everybody that we've kind of met. And, you know, when we decided we were going to do this podcast, absolutely we wanted to reach out to everybody that we had kind of gained, you know, trust and a friendship with for the most part. And, you know, not only for our own personal benefit, but I think that there are stories out there from these guys that are local that should be heard and need to be heard. Dwight and Terry, Dwight Sullivan, who's a lead game developer over at Stern Pinball, and Terry Deswart from the owner of Pinball Life.
    8:01
    I mean, those are guys that we've known for a while, and to hear them kind of come in and tell these stories, some of which we've heard and some of which we have not, it was just a fun time, and we were hoping that everybody else would appreciate listening to some of these stories because it's entertaining, it's funny. Well, and that was the thing. I mean, honestly, we would talk and hang out with Terry, Dwight, and various other people, which you'll hear down the road. And some of the stories that you hear are just so off the wall that it doesn't make sense for just us to hear them when the whole community should be able to hear them just because they're hilarious.
    8:35
    And these guys have personalities. You know, you're checking out at Pinball Life, and you put things in a cart, and you hit send with your PayPal or your credit card. You don't really know who that money is going to, who worked hard to bring you those parts. So it's got to be kind of cool to listen to the guy who you're ordering parts from. And Dwight's just such a fun guy. To know the guy that's behind the master code and light shows of all these pinball machines, I'm happy to know him, and we're hoping that you've got an opportunity to get to know him a little bit better as well.
    9:06
    Yeah, great guy. Great guy. Now, that being said, we've got more in store for you for interviews. So we don't want to necessarily be interview heavy. Right now, with it being summer, I think the general consensus in the pinball community is that there is not a whole lot to go on to discuss on a weekly basis. So by dropping interviews in, we're hoping to break up the monotony and offer you a little bit something different. Christopher Franchi lately seems like he's been on a lot of pinball podcasts. He's making the rounds. He's making the tour circuit. Yes, he has. One thing with him, he always has something to say that nobody else has said, it seems like.
    9:40
    In every interview, I pick up on something where I didn't know he's working with that, and I didn't know that's in the works. So it interests me to hear what he says because he does offer information without disclosing too much He not as I don know what word I looking for as protective on information that he has At the same token, I'm assuming he's not putting anybody in a jeopardizing position by talking about what he talks about. Well, we hope not because, you know what I mean, that's one thing with our podcast is we don't want to ever put anyone that we do interview
    10:11
    in a compromising position because they just divulged something that they shouldn't. But, yeah, I've listened to a couple of the Christopher Frenchy ones, and he definitely keeps it real. I mean, he tells you everything that's going on in his world. What else do we have going on as far as interviews? We were talking about other people that are local. We've reached out to a lot of different people, and at this point it's just kind of setting dates and then maybe keeping those interviews and parking them and putting them in the vault and bringing them out as time permits.
    10:42
    Again, with it being summer, times permitted pretty easily the last few weeks. Just not a lot going on. And we can kind of hit on these manufacturers real quick, if you don't mind. Yeah, definitely. Stern Pinball. They're still rocking Iron Maiden. One of our buddies just picked one up, so we're looking forward to going to his house. I actually got a chance to play with one. That's right. So last time you had not been on an Iron Maiden. No, no, I had not. You complimented the artwork with Zombie Yeti and Keith Elwin's layout, I think. What did you think? What were your impressions on Iron Maiden?
    11:13
    The theme is interesting. The music choice isn't my first music choice, so it's a little harder to get because of that. I'm more of an Aerosmith kind of guy. Consequently, there's an Aerosmith pin available, as you know. Yes, yes there is. Yes there is. That's on the want list. So I think that's a cool playing game, and I like the theme. And theme will pull me in even if the game isn't as great just because I'm more of a theme person.
    11:46
    But that Iron Maiden shot awesome. I mean, I had a great game on it, and that was the first game that I had. So, I mean, it flows really, really smooth. So I really do like that game. First thing that I noticed when I flipped it was that it offered a different experience of anything that I've flipped that's come out of Stern lately. I think it's just we're used to these designers that kind of have their trademarks, and you can kind of feel their fingerprints and their DNA on these designs and on these play fields. And then to have somebody come in from outside of Stern that had developed this for another type of a game, which was the Archer pin,
    12:18
    it was kind of refreshing, and I liked it. It was different than what I'm used to playing. Yeah, it definitely had a different feel than Aerosmith, Ghostbusters, any of those types of games. Right, right. Which, you know, honestly, I think all those are good games as well. Just it was a different feel. You know, it was like kind of jumping from a Jersey Jack to a Stern or, you know, an old school Williams. Yeah. It's like eating pizza every single night and all of a sudden somebody throws you some good Mexican food.
    12:49
    And you're like, hey, I'll take it. And then you're on a Mexican food kick. Then you go back to pizza. It's like, hey, I still like pizza. Who doesn't like pizza? Jersey Jack pinball up next for discussion. So we are still waiting on the actual shipping confirmation of Pirates of the Caribbean. Which they've got to be close by now because I know that it was supposed to be around August, so they're probably getting real close to shipping those out. I did reach out to Eric Mounier today, who is the designer on Pirates of the Caribbean, and he actually said exactly what he said.
    13:20
    He said they're close. He didn't have anything to offer other than that, but to his point he said, listen, there's nobody that wants this game out there more than I do, and we are close, so that's encouraging. I still have not had an opportunity to play that. In fact, Eric invited us to come in to the Jersey Jack satellite office, which is consequently, what, like five minutes from Stern, I think. It's pretty close. And he said, you know, flip some games, so maybe we'll take him up on that. Bring the mics. We'll do an on-location interview with Eric. Bring some Two Brothers Pinball.
    13:51
    Yeah, we'll always drop off some Two Brothers Pinball pale ale for the in-studio guests or our location. Or out-of-studio guests. Out-of-studio guests. I think that's what's cool. We can go mobile, so we can go in the stern, knock out an interview. Yep. You know, we could go in a Jersey Jack, go to American Pinball if they'll have us, and, you know, get some information, put it out there for everybody. Going back for a second, you mentioned how Eric said there's nobody else on the planet that wants this game to come out more than him. And, you know, with every single one of these games, every designer,
    14:21
    I mean, they're putting their heart and soul in it, so when you see people, you know, bagging on them, saying that this game sucks, this, that, and the other. It's kind of like someone put their heart, soul, and effort. And not just one person. You have the people that wrote the code. You have the people that did the artwork. I mean, many hands win that pot. So when people just say it sucks for whatever reason, it's kind of disheartening. They're doing a good job of showing the pin and streaming it. They've got their Twitch channel, and if you've not checked that out, you can see the game streamed on Twitch at JJPLive.
    14:52
    That's the Twitch channel. And if they're not broadcasting live at the moment, they have archived shows. So you can kind of go back and you can see what they've done. So it's kind of nice to be able to see the pinball played. I know everybody would want to have that in their hands. And if you're not close to a pinball show, you really haven't had an opportunity to sit down and flip the game. I have not flipped the game myself either. I'm just going by what I see. It looks like it's a fun game. you know they they had overcome that that the concentric ring issue where they ultimately decided that design was not going to work in the game as intended so they replaced it with
    15:26
    something that's more reliable which i'm assuming caused a little bit of a delay at least they got it right because i'll tell you what happened you had you had people that complained well i wanted this game because of this mechanism now you took it out so that that sucks but on the flip side of But they put that game on location or they sent it out to home users, knowing that they have something that's not 100% dependable. You're going to have the same people probably complaining, hey, this doesn't work, why didn't you find it during your quality control testing? So it was kind of a no-win situation for them,
    15:57
    but I think ultimately they made the right decision by taking that out and replacing the mechanism. As disappointing as it might have been that the game doesn't have that, it still looks like it's a great game, and you have something that's more reliable. So you're not going to be calling anybody up and looking for replacements or repair. When it comes to broken games, a manufacturer doesn't want to put out broken stuff because it's just bad all the way around. And no broken pinball machine is a fun pinball machine. So as much as they caught a lot of heat on that, and I thought they caught a lot of heat on that.
    16:29
    No pinball machine that's broken is fun. Yeah. Right. I mean, it might be good to look at, but that gets old after a while. So, you know what, yeah, I think they caught a lot of heat on that. But I think that was the right call because when you've got something that doesn't work or it's a bad design, it's never going to be right unless you change it. Absolutely. And I also wanted to give Jersey Jack special props. Another big code drop on Hobbit. Yes. And this is something I think they're over or at or over version 3.0 right now.
    17:00
    Now, that's a game that's been out. I think it's 4.0. Is it 4? It's so far along at this point. and what it seems like they're doing is they are listening to user feedback and even though you've got games that have come out since like dialed in and now pirates of the caribbean they're still going back and they're they're answering the requests for those that have this game and they're still continuing to make it a good game as a as a former hobbit owner i appreciated the game for what it was it's an adventure and it's experience you know it's not something where you go downstairs and you're gonna play a game for two or three minutes like you would like a no
    17:33
    Like Ghostbusters or something. Yeah. It's something, it's immersive, so you've got to get into the theme, and you can set the game up harder to play quicker and more difficult, but for the most part, it's a beautiful machine. It's probably the most pretty machine that I've ever owned. It commands attention when you walk into a room and you see that. I had a smog edition. Everybody complimented me on that. And it's funny because people that would come over that had never seen an LCD and a pinball machine, because, I mean, now they're a little more common, but back then it wasn't as common. I think Wizard of Oz was out.
    18:03
    But Jersey Jack came right back with the Jersey, I'm sorry, not the Jersey Jack, but the Hobbit LCD. But for them to continue massive support for code on that game is great. So I just wanted to give a shout out, some accolades over to Jersey Jack Pinball on that. Well, and you had one, and you had it for, what, like four or five months? Ken flips through games pretty quick. I do. Well, and the reason for that being I have a small collection, and I turn over quick, and that's just to keep everything fresh, not just for myself but for people to come by.
    18:35
    Yeah. And Ken had it for like four or five months. Great game. Loved that game. I wouldn't mind owning one at one point. And now with this recent code update, it's like, you know, if I could find one that's local that I could snag, that wouldn't be bad either. But, you know, just because of the new code update. That's the thing. Like I would want to get back in on one. When I sold mine, it was just before there was a little bit of a price dip on Hobbit. Yeah. And I remember at the time I was thinking to myself, well, you know, I got out at the wrong time.
    19:05
    Maybe I got out at the right time. But I couldn't buy it back for what I could have bought one, you know, six or eight months ago. So it looks like that game is increasing. It's on the rise price-wise. It was kind of stable for a little bit. We'll see what happens with this code drop. I don't know. Yeah, that's going to be interesting. It can only go higher, right? Yeah. What do we have else going on? Spooky pinball. so we have alice cooper's nightmare castle still waiting to ship the first alice cooper's nightmare castle went to the rock and roll hall of fame yeah and uh zach it straight down the middle was the one that kind of broke that news so nicely done on that zach still waiting for people I think they wanting to see more of this game They looking to see a stream or something to kind of get more familiar with how it shoots
    19:54
    And, again, you're at a disadvantage if you're not able to get to a pinball show. So you kind of rely on these pinball streams. And I can only imagine with them working on code, they're waiting for it to be a little bit more polished so that when it does shoot, that it just makes more sense in what you're looking at. Yeah. Yeah, and I think we know of a couple people that might be purchasing one. Actually, I know at least one person that's going to get one, so I know we're going to get on one sooner or later. Yeah, good, good. So that'll be interesting to report back on how that one does. We have Expo actually coming up. It's about 90 days away, and that's the Chicago Pinball Expo,
    20:27
    and it's going to be fun to have all these games that we haven't had an opportunity to play just there as it is every single year. I'm curious to kind of see what Stern brings to the table at Expo this year. We all have heard the rumors that Deadpool and Munsters are two themes that might be popping up at a pinball retailer. If not a third. I was trying to wrap my head around the release date. So if you have, I'm assuming like late August, mid to late August might be the next launch of their new title.
    21:03
    Because Iron Maiden has not been out very long. If they follow the history, you know, because normally it's like one in March, one in August, one around October. For a while it was always Expo when they broke their new game. But, you know, last year was the first year that they pushed it off a couple of weeks. Is it going to be too close together? Because I'm trying to think about this. Iron Maiden, I mean, I've talked to some distributors. It's not anything that's easy to keep in stock. It's really, really popular, which I can understand at that point. And if this machine is still selling, why even consider showing anything right now to take the track from potential Iron Maiden sales?
    21:39
    I don't know. Because there's guys that are going to buy the next pin regardless, and there's guys that are thinking, I want to know what my options are. So let's say they do come out with their next pinball launch in August. Then you've got, what, like six weeks, eight weeks until Expo? Are you going to be showing something else there too and then maybe something else before the end of the year? And I guess their vault title for this year was ACDC, right? That was a vault edition. So I'm just kind of curious on the release schedule. Which those sold well. Yeah. Yeah, they did.
    22:10
    They did sell well. I've been looking for an ACDC premium, so it was kind of cool to see a vault come out, to have another option to pick up something. It brought the prices of the existing pins, kept them in check, and then you have a brand new option if you want that new in box. So a next manufacturer, again, a local company, you've got American Pinball. They're still shipping Houdini. And there's still rumors and speculation on the second launch for them, which Oktoberfest I think is really the only thing that's been mentioned.
    22:42
    Whether or not that's something they decide to do or not, not really sure. I, for one, I think Oktoberfest potentially could be kind of a fun party pin without it having to be focused on alcohol. So I can see that being kind of a fun thing to have in your basement with crazy music and stuff without it being too risque and still be family oriented. So if they do decide to do that, I guess being sponsored by a beer company might not be horrible to have in some of the Two Brothers locations. But aside from that, I think potentially it could be fun, just a fun, off-the-wall kind of different theme that people might gravitate to.
    23:20
    Well, I think, you know, like with going back for a second, Iron Maiden, I think a lot of people were on the fence whether it was going to be good or, you know, not so great just because of the theme. But, I mean, that one's moving. So, I mean, everyone's kind of saying the same thing about Oktoberfest. So it wouldn't surprise me if this is, you know, another smash title that rolls out. I think the difference being, I mean, there's so many Iron Maiden fans. Like you were – I didn't know if it was going to do well either. But, I mean, they have such a fan base. like is there like a huge october festival fan base and pinball i who knows i have no idea
    23:54
    but to your point if a theme is fun again i wasn't all in on dialed in and i think it's a great shooting pin and it's super fun i really like dialed in a lot um it can still get a hold of you and you can still have fun time and you can still want to own that pinball machine so hey october fest bring on october fest i sounds good to me guess what it could be real popular in europe too yeah yeah we've got uh chicago gaming company still waiting on their next one yeah the next remake still hasn't been announced this was something that supposedly was going to be
    24:27
    revealed at tpf which should have been march of this year and the speculation rumor is that potentially the reason for the delay could be potentially uh because of adding more code making it more code complete. Now, in all fairness, I have no way to confirm that or deny that on this podcast, but it's something that I have heard speculated that they were addressing an issue that had plagued Monster Bash in the past.
    24:59
    And I guess code is one of those things where it just could have been polished or could have gone further, could have been completed. So now that would be pretty cool to have a Monster Bash that has almost like a, what is it, Cactus Canyon? Continued. continued right so you've got extra code to make it worth it um not that it's not worth having the remakes because they're beautiful and they're brand new and i'm sure it's going to play close to the original oh yeah but they have new code that's that's great i like that well i'm sure they're still selling attacks pretty uh pretty frequently too they're still selling what attack
    25:33
    for mars oh yeah i i it's the only pin that they have listed on their website i was checking it out today oh so the medievals are off the the website now you know what they i take that back they might be in the website, but you have Attack from Mars is featured on their front page at Chicago Gaming. Okay. So, yeah, I don't know if Medieval Madness is back there. I know they were supposed to come back and do another run of Medieval Madness, and then they still have that extended DMD, just like Attack from Mars has. That's going to be an add-on option, or I don't know if that's going to be included in the new releases when they, you know, re-pop those again.
    26:04
    I really have no clue. Homepin, you've got, they are, I guess, continuing to work out issues with Thunderbirds. I will mention them because they are a pinball company and they are working on a release. Nothing against Home Pin. It's just Thunderbirds. The theme-wise, it just doesn't speak to me. So it's not anything that I'm passionate about, but we're absolutely going to cover it. I'm assuming that – have you seen any video on this? I have not.
    26:35
    I've seen pictures. I've read threads, and that's about the extent of it for me. Yeah, no, I haven't seen a whole lot of it. I haven't seen one in person yet. I think that's really where I want to make a judgment on it. Right. Oh, and don't forget Big Lebowski. Oh, don't get me started on Big Lebowski. Yeah. So the Seattle 7, have you read this? Have you seen this? They started the GoFundMe page, and they're looking, is it 500,000 euros they're looking to raise for the legal fees
    27:07
    in order to get themselves out of legal issues with ARA in that lawsuit and then to help with the production with Zytec. And as of earlier today, I think they had like 720 euros raised or something like that. I mean, it was really, really low. That's going to be an uphill climb. I do want to say this. I can respect somebody trying to help somebody out to bring a pinball machine to market. It seems like the mismanagement potentially of maybe the money or even the step-by-step process of how to manufacture a pinball machine just concerns me a little bit where I don't know that I would want to spend additional money.
    27:48
    Now, I don't mean to go off on this, but I was trying to put myself in the heads of these guys that call themselves the Seattle Seven, right? I helped this company get off the ground with my early achiever money. and I never got my pinball machine. Now, there are pinball machines that are still out there, and they're at ARA. If I'm one of the Seattle 7, do I have anything to lose by sticking my neck out there to try to help raise some money and let Barry and Yap know this?
    28:22
    Hey, even though you guys are struggling right now, remember the 7 guys, the Seattle 7, that went out there, put our reputations on the line to try to get you guys bailed out. Because what happens if that doesn't work, okay, and ARA somehow releases these machines to Barry and Yap, which is Dutch Pinball? Who do you think they would want to take care of first if they had those machines in the collection? Wouldn't you be like, hey, remember those seven guys that had stuck there and tried to raise this money for us?
    28:56
    It didn't come to fruition, but we've got to hook those guys up because they're our dudes, so to speak. So I'm not saying that's an ulterior motive behind it, but it would potentially be an added perk. I don't know any of these guys personally. If any of them would like to come on the show or even email us and give us a little insight, I've got an open mind to everything. But it seems like it's, again, almost a no-lose situation for these guys to put it out there. When I had first heard about it, I was almost mad. I'm like, what are these guys thinking?
    29:27
    Who's going to do this? Who's going to do that? And where I don agree that more money should be necessarily thrown into this situation just because of where the money went before is really still not spoken for I can appreciate the efforts of the Seattle 7 You know, let me kind of interject here. You know what? I've played a big Lebowski. I really like it. If I could buy one for, you know, if it was within my price range, You could buy one for like $21,000, Bill. A little out of the price range. Just a bit outside.
    29:58
    tried the corner and missed tried the corner and missed so yeah no you know what i think it's a beautiful game i think it really played well you know if it was ever possible i would love to own one one day um so you know that said i would you know it's sad to know that they probably won't make any more um that it's probably a done issue but you know i would love to see that game still you know i in canada's uh podcast he said he'd love to see them sell the rights off and have somebody make it you know they made a great game they made a good good themed product i've heard
    30:34
    and off the record it was offered to me that that they had tried to shop that around okay and nobody picked that up and i don't know if it's because of the baggage that had come with it i mean if you're in legal problems you've got a licensing issue probably with universal or whoever has that license i don't know it just seems like it's a sticky situation so don't in my opinion don't think for a second that they didn't consider that as an option i don't see how you could not consider that as an option yeah um so who knows i mean again until more information becomes public
    31:05
    it's just speculation and anything that i say or that you say here today is not because of any personal knowledge that we have it's just all opinion it's a lot of its rumor and uh you know the rumor all you can really do is discuss it and and kind of make your own decisions on what you think is going on until you do have the hard facts so if anybody has some hard facts specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com or hit us up on the Facebook page specialwhenlitpinballpodcast Yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens, but it's a shame. It should have been made.
    31:38
    It's a shame. A lot of things the hobby's endured a lot of just crazy things that I don't know that I've ever really seen in any other thing that I've ever been involved with as far as just... People getting screwed out of money. Well, you know what? And just going in and trusting somebody on a handshake and an eye-to-eye are, you know, it's tough. I feel for all those people that lost money. It doesn't matter if you were naive. You still were taken advantage of. It's crazy. This is what it is. This hobby is so small that everyone knows everybody.
    32:09
    And if you know five pinball people, you probably know 70% of the pinball community within your reach. Right. So, you know, you burn one person, you know, it's going to get out. It's true. It's like you'll never do business in this town again type of mentality. Deep Root Pinball, I wanted to bring them up real quick. Again, nothing new that I'm aware of. I did personally reach out to Robert Mueller today and just had told him that we as podcasters and as pinball enthusiasts are interested in what they have going on.
    32:42
    And as I understand that he's not going to be, you know, wanting to give us any industry secrets or give us a jump start on anything that they haven't released yet. But it'd be great to kind of ask him a couple questions or even have him throw us a nugget or two if he sees fit and just kind of keep us up to date on what's going on over there. We're happy to pass that information along to our listeners and, you know, keep them pertinent, as they haven't really been out there, you know, posting lately. So they've got their reveals coming up at Texas Pinball Festival 2019, which we both hope to attend.
    33:15
    Which is right around the corner. I mean, in all honesty, what is it, like six months out? It really is. I mean, if you figure expos in October, it's 90 days. You've got December, January, February, March. I mean, you're still looking at like seven months. But in the grand scheme of things, as the seasons switch and you're in winter, next thing you know, you're at Texas Pinball Festival. So I'm looking forward to that this year. I actually considered getting a room at Chicagoland Expo. It's what, like an hour from here, 45 minutes? 45 minutes. From where we're at. I was thinking, you know what, it'd be just kind of cool to just be able to stay up in the game rooms and play and not worry about trying to get home and having too much to drink and that sort of thing.
    33:47
    So there are still rooms available. I think there was a room with double occupancy. It was like two queen-size beds. It was like $145. I'm like, you know what? I should do that just Friday, Saturday, crash there, get up in the morning. It would be fun to kind of network with some people. I'd like to meet some of these other podcasters too that, you know, we've listened to these guys for months or even years. It would be kind of cool to shake some hands and throw back a drink with those guys. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, kind of looking forward to Expo a little bit more this year than I normally do look forward to Expo.
    34:17
    And I normally really look forward to Expo. I might even play a pinball machine this year at Expo. And that's the craziest part is, you know, we'll go there and you'll be walking around. You know, I'll go two days just so I got one day to play a game. Yep. And, you know, when's the last time you played a game at Expo? It's just hard because, again, I think we touched on this before. I like just putting a face with a name on these guys I've emailed with. Robert Lerman from Lermods.com. What a super nice guy. Right. And we had exchanged emails back and forth, and we kind of worked together with a couple things.
    34:52
    And I was looking forward to meet him. I met him at the Pinball Life party last year face-to-face. And I drove him back to Expo because he was leaving that night or the next morning. He's a super nice guy. Him and his wife, Kimberly. Personal thoughts aside, they make quality mods too. LearnMods.com if you get a chance. And, you know, if you don't know what a mod is, it's just an add-on accessory that you can install in your pinball machine, and it normally, you know, makes the playing experience more fun or better or offers you something as far as like a light show or something that you normally wouldn't have.
    35:27
    So that's what a mod is, a modification to your machine, an add-on item. You don't know who's listening, so I figure we might as well. No, hey, you know what? He's a great guy. We rode in the same car when we were driving back. When I was driving us back to Expo from Pinball Life, just had to clarify that with beverages on board. How many cases did we bring to Expo? 24 cases. 24 cases of Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale. Yeah. It was just smacked in the back. The whole trunk space was taken up. And it's funny because there was a guy that needed a ride to Expo.
    36:02
    And he's like, hey, man, would you mind taking me back to Expo? And Robert from Lerman.com, he's like, hey, this guy needs a ride. Can you take him back? And I'm like, dude, I literally don't have the room. And I took the guy outside because I didn't want him to think I was blowing him off and popped the trunk. And he's like, oh, my gosh, that's crazy. Brian Kelly was out there. He's taking pictures. He's like, this is nuts. This is so much beer. And down the road, I just put two and two together. It was Pinsider Grizz was the guy that I would have loved to have taken the guy back to Expo because that guy's a fun guy.
    36:34
    You know, he's always got something cool going on, and he's like a partier. Yeah, so I was like, man, Grizz, I'm sorry, dude. I did not know that I was denying you a ride. But even so, unless you were going to ride on the roof, there was no option for you, buddy. Yeah, it was not intentional. But, I mean, to give everyone that's listening a visual, if you've ever seen My Cousin Vinny, where he throws the last two jugs of coins in the thing and the muffler's dragging on the ground, that was literally what the Odyssey looked like when we were driving it. Yeah, I'm a proud owner of the Honda Odyssey. Yeah. Great for Holland.
    37:04
    It's a black one, so it looks kind of cool. Yeah. So as a 43-year-old dad of three married. Well, and don't forget. It's about as cool of a car I can have right now. And don't forget, the Pinball Expo, you always kind of want to get there early because we got there last year kind of like 7 or 8 o'clock, and there wasn't a spot. We looked for 45 minutes. Well, because we went to the Pinball Life party. Yeah. You have to go to the pre-party to Pinball Life if you can. Yeah. Because when you transition over, and I think we stayed a little bit late at that party even afterwards. We did. But what a cool transition to go from there and then go into wheeling for that expo.
    37:36
    You're already kind of primed up and you had a party and now you're just on the expo hall and you've got so much going on. It's just that is going down as one of my funnest days, if not the coolest day for me of the year. It's just that day we hit Pinball Life and then we go to expo. It's great. Yeah, that was a blast. We got home at like 2 o'clock in the morning. We had Bruce in from Two Brothers. Yeah, Bruce. And the car telling stories. He's the vice president of marketing over at Two Brothers. He's a buddy of mine. He's hilarious. Yeah, it's a good clique of people that we have going on these adventures.
    38:09
    So, you know what? And we want to go on these adventures with you guys, too. So when you see us at these shows, if you get a chance, introduce yourselves to us. We love to talk pinball with you guys. Absolutely. And don't be afraid to say hi. We're getting some T-shirts printed up, some swag, so to speak. So we'll be able to kind of get those out to the public. And, you know, if you see fit, throw a shirt on and spread the word of the Special Wendley Pinball Podcast. We definitely would appreciate it. We'll have to come up with some sort of giveaway for a t-shirt once we get a little closer to that. We can't do totes.
    38:39
    I guess that's like... Totes are out. Not for us, they're out. A lot of totes going on right now. Tote talk. Tote etiquette. So on that note... Yeah, on that note, we'll close it out. I want to thank everybody again for listening. I said that 15 times. I'll say it one more. Thank you for listening. If you want to get a hold of us on the show, you can email us directly at SpecialWhenLitPinballPodcast at gmail.com. Any questions, comments, observations, we'll take consideration. If you have concerns of the podcast, please reach out to us. And then we do have that Facebook page, which is SpecialWhenLitPinballPodcast,
    39:11
    and that's on Facebook. But you know what? Seriously, reach out to us. All right. You guys have a good day, good evening, and we'll see you soon. For Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. Thank you for listening to the SpecialWhenLitPinballPodcast.