Episode 635: "What Will JJP 2022 Pricing Be?"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·26m 34s·analyzed·Dec 30, 2021

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Kaneda predicts JJP will price 2025 CEs at $15K+ amid hot market; praises Rush, criticizes Spooky.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Jersey Jack Pinball's anticipated 2025 pricing strategy in light of surging secondary market values for premium pinball machines, predicting JJP will price Toy Story Collector's Editions at $15,000 or higher. He also analyzes Rush's immediate sellout success, criticizes Spooky Pinball's recent releases (Ultraman, Halloween) for incomplete implementation, praises Jersey Jack's animation quality and craftsmanship, and defends his transition to a Patreon subscription model for his podcast.

Key Claims

Stern Pinball machines that used to sell for $8,000 now sell for $15,000 on secondary market
high confidence · Kaneda, opening discussion of market dynamics
Jersey Jack Pinball undersold Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition and saw secondary market trading at $18,000 to $20,000
high confidence · Kaneda, discussing JJP sales precedent
Someone offered $15,000 for a Deadpool James Cameron's Avatar (Limited Edition) with no seller willing to accept
medium confidence · Kaneda, citing Pinside market activity
Rush has already sold out at distributor level immediately after Stern announcement
high confidence · Kaneda, claiming contact with coin taker
John Borg is a huge Rush fanatic and will deliver something special for the machine
medium confidence · Kaneda, opinion on designer passion and outcome
Ultraman machines are losing $1,000-$2,000 in resale value already
medium confidence · Kaneda, observing secondary market performance
Jersey Jack Pinball holds patent for QR code implementation on screens, forcing Stern's apron solution
medium confidence · Kaneda, reporting industry intelligence
Stern is shipping Elvira's House of Horrors 40th anniversary editions limited to 199 units
high confidence · Kaneda, reporting production news
Rick and Morty is a more popular theme with better integration than Ultraman or Halloween
high confidence · Kaneda, comparative analysis of game themes
Kaneda's Patreon club has added 25 new members in the week of this recording
high confidence · Kaneda, self-reported membership growth

Notable Quotes

“They're watching people say, I will spend $15,000 on a Deadpool. The most interesting part of this week was there was no one in the world that offered to sell Deadpool for $15,000, which means it's worth even more than $15,000.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Core argument for JJP price increases; demonstrates undersupply and demand exceeding supply
“I don't think $12,500 will ever be seen again. They would be giving it away.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Strong prediction about JJP CE pricing floor for future releases
“If you took 99 million people and surveyed them, put Guns N' Roses next to Led Zeppelin and say which one do you think cost more, you would get 99.9999% of people would say the Jersey Jack Pinball machine looks like it should cost way more.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Argument for JJP's superior perceived value and craftsmanship justifying premium pricing
“The best animations in all of pinball are still over at Jersey Jack Pinball. Stern Pinball's stuff is so mediocre but it's alright.”
Kaneda @ late-episode — Comparative criticism of Stern's animation quality vs JJP's superior implementation
“I think Spooky Pinball completely has missed the mark with these games right now and I also think people just don't care to see where these games go.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Harsh assessment of Spooky's recent product trajectory and community sentiment shift
“Rush is already sold out. It's gonna be a game that I still think will divide people, but John Borg designs are not that divisive.”
Kaneda @ late-episode — Predicts Rush will be commercially successful despite divisive theme, citing designer's track record
“All that it costs a month is five bucks? Come on!”
Kaneda @ late-episode — Justification for Patreon paywall; defensive tone indicates community pushback
“Stern Pinball knows that the demand for this product is hotter than it's ever been and they also know a very fundamental fact about wealthy people.”

Entities

Jersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyJohn BorgpersonLyman SheetspersonGary Sternperson George Gomezperson Jeremy Packer

Signals

$
market_signal: Secondary market pricing for premium Stern machines has doubled from $8K to $15K, signaling extreme collector demand and potential for further price increases across all manufacturers
high · Direct statement: 'Stern Pinball titles that used to sell for $8,000 now sell for $15,000' and Deadpool asking $15K with no sellers
?
product_strategy: Jersey Jack Pinball likely evaluating price increases for 2025 Collector's Editions based on market demand exceeding supply by 2-4x current production volumes
high · Kaneda's prediction of $15K pricing and analysis that JJP 'would be giving it away' at $12.5K; comparison to Stern's 1000-unit Godzilla LE precedent
?
product_strategy: JJP anticipated to increase Toy Story CE production from 500 to 1000 units while raising price, mirroring Stern's successful Godzilla LE strategy
medium · Kaneda's prediction: 'increase the number of collectors editions of Toy Story from 500 to 1000 units' plus Buzz/Woody variants at 500 each
?
product_launch: Rush has sold out at distributor level immediately after official announcement, indicating extreme demand for music-themed games and potential shortage issues
high · Direct report: 'They're already sold out of Rush machines. Nobody can get a Rush' and 'It's already sold out'
?
design_innovation: Jersey Jack Pinball holds patent for QR code screen integration, forcing Stern to use apron-based QR codes as workaround
medium · Kaneda's report: 'Jersey Jack Pinball has the patent to put the QR code on the screen. That's why Stern Pinball had to do what they did with the apron'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.080

0:00

TenderR Funny, ПокаCoffee, Brother Clean, Brother QR stayed in showroom immersed◇ demi veggiesy, R-Sis creates astarter in senma Uhh.. Welcome everybody happy holidays from Pinside's favourite pinball podcaster. I'm your host Kaneda. This is episode 635 of Kaneda's pinball podaticst. The New Microphone, it sounds great and what I want to talk about on this episode is Rush Pinball and what will the price be? I also want to talk about Jersey Jack Pinball. I think they're the most interesting company to think about going into 2022. Where do they price their games? They have seen the market go through the roof and they've seen Stern titles that used to sell for $8,000 now sell for $15,000. And I think Jersey Jack's 2022 pricing must be something that company is discussing at the boardroom table this week. I also got a funny email from Jersey Jack Pinball saying they did a year-in-review podcast of Jersey Jack Pinball, and they did not talk about playfield issues. They also, I think this was a response to Kaneda. They let everybody know that their year-in-review podcast is The Here in review podcast is free for some reason this show and these club episodes are somewhat annoying everybody out there here's the thing I know all you haters that listen I want you guys to do me a favor explain this rationale to me you complain that I'm a narcissist who just wants attention I then take my show to club members only which removes it from the mass airwaves so why are you now still complaining it makes no sense to me the very people who say no to me are the ones who are the ones who are the most annoying to me. The very people who say nobody should listen to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast are the very gentlemen that want to consume every single episode. I love it. Now they have to pay five bucks and they're moaning and groaning like little babies. So look, we all know five dollars is nothing, but you know what is not nothing? Someone is offering right now on Pinside $15,000 for a Deadpool LE. Now this week we finally got confirmation that Rush Pinball is coming from Stern. Now what is that machine? This week in Pinball Podcast, we have a special guest, John Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic panel in backbox that is backlit during playelectronic Game of Thrones unint What do you think Rush will cost? And if I'm Stern. I'm going to each of my distributors and I'm saying okay How many le customers do you have that want an le game and then how long is your allocation list and I bet that even at 1000 units there are still way more people that want every single new Stern le then 1000 and so Stern must be saying okay we could price it The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteregonate I think a year from now Stern lees will be $12,500 and I think they will still sell every single one at that price point even though people will moan and groan stern knows that the demand for this product is hotter than it's ever been and they also know a very fundamental fact about wealthy people and I know this upsets some of you out there but they know that if you have $10,000 to spend The

4:55

Atticptin Unpublished, atopicptin.com let's go todavía pride A $12,500 Stern pinball machine in 2022 2023 seems crazy. Oh, and by the way, I reached out to coin taker. They're already sold out of rush pinball machines. Nobody can get a rush le. Now I'm not getting one right now. I know that I could probably buy this game and flip it for some money. But I'm not a rush fan. This isn't a game that I want to speculate on. I do think this game is going to sell out right away. I do think There are way more than a thousand Rush fans that are out there. This is a band that has sold 40 million albums. So even though for many of you out there, Rush is just a so-so title, it's gonna sell out. It does have crossover with the pinball buying audience. This is a much better theme than Legends of Valhalla. In the real world, Rush is a much better theme than Cactus Canyon. It's a much better pinball theme than even Deadpool. I mean it. This is a much better The other thing that would make me feel really good about this game other than the 17 songs is knowing that John Borg is a huge Rush fanatic When you get a designer that is lined up with something that he loves that he is passionate about you are going to get something very special I expect this machine to have something very special something very unique and it will be a machine that I think rush fans are going to be very very fond of Will it have crossover appeal Will this have people who don like Rush saying I want to have that pinball machine Well that going to come down to the feature And Shudder Initiative for scoring hunting против Tian In Turku. When would play acabar like neistiumni Noob Corruption More latecomers Big chitchat ONE So c'mon Thinking of the Well I thought Or For I have rush up with like Iron Maiden. I don't like Iron Maiden. I don't like Rush. I love Guns N' Roses. And guess what? Different strokes for different folks. Music pins sell. They sell very well. And there's a reason why because pinball and music just go together. All right. So if you're over at Jersey Jack Pinball though, you know that Guns N' Roses has been a sales success. You undersold your Guns N' Roses collector's Edition. They sold out right away and they saw people trading them for $18,000 to $20,000 right away. Jersey Jack has seen Willy Wonka's CE's go for over sticker. They've seen the ridiculous prices of Pirates of the Caribbean collector's edition. So I want to ask all of you, if you're over at Jersey Jack Pinball and you're watching this market, right? You're watching people say, I will spend $15,000 on a Deadpool The most interesting part of this week was the most interesting part of the week. There was no one in the world that offered to sell DeadpoolLE for $15,000 which means it's worth even more than $15,000. And I think if you're jerseyjack and you see all that you put into your games you have to be saying to yourselves, look this is the moment. This is the time in which we need to do what Kaneda has been saying since day one. We need to The game is a game of the game. We are not here to behave and act like the premium pinball company we are. We put more into each of our games. Our games are a higher level of craftsmanship. Even as I say that, I start to vomit in my mouth a little bit because of all the playfield issues. But when you put a jersey jack machine next to a stern machine, everybody would agree, which one do you think costs more? It's just that simple. If you took 99 million people and surveyed them, put guns and roses next to Led Zeppelin and say which one do you think cost more money, you would get 99.9999% of people would say the Jersey Jack machine looks like it should cost way more money. The only person that would vote for the Stern is someone named Gary Stern or George Gomez. So if you're Jersey Jack, you have to be saying now is our time. It's not just that we put much more in than Stern does, it's the market is so hot. So where do you think Jersey Jack Pinball goes with its pricing? And are they going to start creating more FOMO? Are they going to jack up both the price and the volume of games? Now if you're them, how do you not learn from Stern's move? They made a thousand Godzilla LEs and they raised the price and they all sold out. So I firmly expect Jersey Jack Pinball to be a Jack pinball to increase the number of collectors additions of Toy Story from 500 to 1000 units. I also expect them to do a buzz edition and a woody edition 500 of each. I also expect them to do a price increase. Now here's the part where K'nade is going to say something that pisses a lot of people off. Do I think Jersey Jack pinball should price their collectors editions at 15,000 I don't think they're ever going to price it at $12,500 again. They would be giving it away. And we know that the cost of manufacturing has gone up. I don't think $12,500 will ever be seen again. So if you ever bought a collector's edition for $12,500 of GNR or Wonka or any other game out there, congratulations! Your game's going to keep going up in value. I expect them to do it at $15,000. But I also, if I were in that board room with them, I also think they could go even higher. I really do. I think we're at a point now where people have made so much money in the real world with their real jobs and with crypto millionaires and stocks going through the roof. Even though there's inflation eating away at all of our savings, it doesn't matter. The men they are going after on a global level could drop. Again, it's just the rationale. If you could drop 15K, could you drop 20K? The market has shown us that people will do that. And remember, a Jersey Jack collector's edition comes with a topper. It comes with usually a really nice package. They give you different playfield artwork with the gold sparkle. They give you more in their collector's edition than Stern does in their LE. Jersey Jack always loads their games. Now, I think 15K is where it's going to land. And I know they could gamecubeencerener duckie super Nintendo antenna pastern finance À canada is predicting underwear Gentile

13:52

piece A masterpiece from Pat Lawler. I think he's seen his first two titles come out and they really didn't come out and hit hard and I think this game is going to hit hard and I think this game is going to fire on all cylinders. It's not going to come out and be incomplete like Ultraman. Have you seen what's happening with Ultraman lately? In Ultraman with the butter cabinet, which is a $10,000 machine, cannot even sell for like $89.95. And this is just a game that is continuing to sink in confidence and sink in price. And like I said in my year in review show, I think Spooky Pinball is learning a really harsh lesson. They had seven to eight years to get this right and know what people want it and what they came out with with incomplete this and incomplete that and multi-boss. I think Spooky completely has missed the mark with these games right now and I also think people just don't care to see where these games go and anyone who thinks these games are going to end up like Rick and Morty, you're fooling yourselves. There is not the demand for Ultraman and Halloween that there was for Rick and Morty. Rick and Morty is a much more popular theme than both of those titles. Rick and Morty has some of the best theme integration when it comes to software ever in the history of pinball. Let me repeat that. That Rick and Morty from a theme integration is one of the greatest themeintegrated pinball machines ever. You've got the founder of Rick and Morty doing the best pinball callouts ever. You got Scott Denise's light show. You got all the clips from the show that you love. You've got the voices from the actors that you love. And then you turn to Ultraman and you're like, I don't even know this show. I've never even seen this show. This doesn't even connect with me. And then you look at Halloween and there's barely any clips in it. People are moving away from these games so quickly and that is it man this isn't Kenaid or ragging on this that is a game up for sale in the hottest pinball market we've ever seen and people are losing a thousand to two thousand dollars on their games already and what does that say to the people at the end of the line like me means your games are going to keep going down in value I'm sorry I don't think this thing gets turned around I don't I think they underestimated the expectations of this community and it's Not available at the Aprilcom. fashioned kx RT JUST Haidat K Sax X5 торов

16:48

I think people are always going to want to hear what Kaneda has to say about this hobby. I look forward to talking to you about what's going on in the hobby and I think these discussions are fun. I really do feel bad for the people that get really nasty and lob all these personal attacks. For five years I've never made anybody listen to the show. If you enjoy this show, the barrier to entry is the cheapest thing in all of pinball, alright? Ape, and they're selling now. Now, by the way, I hear that they can't offer it for Mandalorian right now because there's some physical part on the Mandalorian game that is interfering with the apron and how it needs to be set up for the insider connected mechanism. I also heard that Jersey Jack Pinball has the patent to put the QR code on the screen. That's why Stern had to do what they did with the apron. I also when I'm looking at these things, I think they look pretty bobo. I think these aprons I think if you buy one for Deadpool the artwork around the QR code thing should be done by zombie yeti and should be Deadpool related. But maybe Stern is just gonna wait for the mod community to do that. It definitely looks pretty basic and kinda ugly. It needs to have artwork for the game. Godzilla's got that right? The Godzilla QR code area is all Godzilla artwork. I'm also hearing this week that Stern is shipping Elvira 40th anniversary editions to people. So if you are one of the lucky rich few who decided to spend $10,000 more than 15 grand and bought one from your distributor and you feel happy about it, congratulations. You just told Stern Pinball that the ceiling is nowhere near 15K and you're going to make it worse for all of us. No, it's a beautiful game. I walked by that Elvira 40th. It is a stunning machine. If you're getting one, I won't lie. I'm a little bit The game is probably the sexiest stern pinball machine of all time without a doubt is at Elvira 40th. So for each and every one of you getting one, congratulations. There are only 199. I think they will always hold their value because I hear nothing but good things about this game. You know, when you think about like what kind of games does it make sense to put into your lineup? I would argue if I were going to collect games and I wanted to have the best pinball experiences on the planet. I would argue that collecting everything Lyman Sheets has done in the pinball world would be the way to go. And if you bought nothing but Lyman's games and Lyman's stern machines, you would have a great lineup of games and nobody would argue against any of the titles in your collection. The Walkingdead, you would get ACDC, you would get Metallica, you would get Batman 66, you would get Elvira. The There's way more that I'm missing but this guy he codes games like nobody else and when he left Stern He left Stern because he was tired of Stern and he wanted to do it his way and there was a lot of Clashing going to be done by Lyman Sheets You are not going to see his work on this machine at all. He might have given some insight into how the code should work and maybe the framework of the game, but I don't think you're going to see any of Lyman's touch on this machine itself. But I also think Stern Pinball's coding department has really upped their game tremendously. I mean, we're a very forgiving community though because when I saw the animations for Rush, they looked like PlayStation 1 animations. I love in pinball when we spend all this money, we act like graphics and animations haven't evolved since like 1996 and we get these really crappy animations and then we say how amazing they are. No, they're pretty piss poor if you ask me. The best animations in all of pinball are still over at Jersey Jack Pinball. Stern's stuff is so mediocre but it's alright. But again, it does look like animations I saw on gateway computers or PlayStation 1 when I look at games like Jurassic Park. Like it's not stellar, but for pinball, it works. But that owl flyingaround, that's in that teaser video for Rush. That's what we're going to get. More of that. If that excites you, I don't think you've played a video game in the last like 20 years. Alright, so it's gonna be a fun week. We are gonna see Rush Pinball. We're gonna see Stern unveil it at a virtual CES. We are going to be talking about Rush for a while. It's already sold out. It's gonna be a game that I still think will divide people, but John Borg designs are not that divisive. I don't think this game from a design standpoint is gonna really make people angry. I do think this game is gonna do just fine for Stern. I think people who love Rush How did you think he would be 아� But there was nothing wrongẫ� väBERGज 느� significance hostage, I just had a great time amongst friends, Lyman, Coach, Remandel Municipassembleperformission 어�arnade Atlingtőnähtit, ninhołlastingäøštICAångä 내�odoxeäštyä,äägäšäräštyäääő hänäääwääääääääää ق�리äkäέäää John Papadiuk, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, translite In the pinball machine which would be horrible and this last movie I swear to God I turned it off after 30 minutes. It's so bad. It is beyond bad. It's like they should never have made this movie and it's like this franchise is done. And that is why I think the next Jersey Jack pinball machine after Toy Story is either going to be Eric Menier's Godfather or it's going to be Avatar. And avatar makes way more sense. And for those of you saying well we already got an avatar. But here's Disney is about to make 4 more Avatar movies and they are coming out one after another after another it's gonna be every other year 4 new Avatar movies and I guarantee you James Cameron will never release a bad movie the guy only makes hits and they been working on these avatar movies for so long I expect them to be probably the most visually spectacular it's gonna be like an The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic Col. Woodland MagazineGold Firewolf by Michael O'你在, Kyle S phone remembers 35E5s&CusBats张x Ya School Network Executive