How do I get every character that every person has an attachment to into this game? And that's how we developed the movie modes for the game, right? You want to be able to show any scene that includes the characters that people love, which is why, you know, you can choose. You shoot the scoop. You can choose from the six movies, the first six movies. And each one of those is a mode. but as we do at JJP it's a lot of mode each movie is broken down into 15 or more different scenes and each scene is 2-3 shots and every one of those scenes has synced audio and video assets and rules that you're going for and again, it's not crazy and convoluted like I said, 2-3 shots and you complete that scene but walking through that there are going to be people who haven't played pinball before that are going to be interested in this because they're Potter fans how do I make sure those people can still experience these characters and still experience this gameplay so working with Joe Katz, the lead programmer on the project how do we make it so if someone can't shoot which a lot of people can't shoot they play whack-a-ball right how do they still get to experience these scenes and so the rule and again trying to make family friendly trying to make casual friendly gameplay if you can't shoot whatever shot but that's the mode shot eventually that mode times out you only get 30 seconds for each scene and then you don't fail and start over it just moves on to the next scene so you still get to experience these things even if you're not making the accomplishments and achieving the shots you still experience now if you do accomplish those shots you're building a value and these modes can be crazy valuable i mean i think joe and i played a game where all we did was focus on the movie modes we put up like 800 million you know like this is a massive if you can string these things together you build a bucket and you build a multiplier for every consecutive scene you complete. The fun is there for the pinball enthusiasts, right? And the players who hunt for high scores, but it's also there for the casuals who don't have that skill or ability or even patience to try to figure that sort of stuff out. They're still going to get to experience their characters and their creatures and their scenes that they remember and they love. I mean, there's 25 hours worth of films, obviously all the books, there's theme parks and all of that. Like, how do you turn that into a game and turn it into one game, which is what I wanted to do, not break it into seven or eight different games, which would be a monumental task. So trying to capture the essence of the world versus specific events in the world, right? I didn't want to have a movie-specific element here and a movie-specific element there. It's more like what is universal in the Potter world? Like Quidditch, things like Hogwarts with the Grand Staircase, things like fighting the Death Eaters, right? These appear across all of the different films. And by using those playfield elements, we can have all of the films play but interact with those areas because there's elements in each film that interact with those different features of the universe. So that was probably the most, you know, how do I wrap my arms around this thing? The way we made that work is by breaking each year into three school timelines. I'm going to call it that. So when you start a year at Hogwarts, you play through the fall term. And the fall term is the first five iconic scenes from that movie, from the first half of that movie. Then you play through the spring term, which is the next five important or iconic scenes from that movie. And then finally you take your final exam, which is the finale of that film. So each of those three chunks has at least five different scenes. In order to complete a scene, you have to make two to four shots in the scene. So each one of them is their own little mini-mode. The continuity for the mode is that mode shots are always flashing the Gryffindor colors. It's always crimson and gold on the insert. So anytime you see an insert flashing crimson and gold, and gold, that's your movie shot or target or objective. So you hit that shot or those shots and you progress the scene into the next scene. So you make it, you complete it, you get a reward of movie asset completion, some sort of scene that you will remember that ties into the scene you're currently playing, and you continue through. So yes, there are a lot of scenes. Every one of these movies has 15 to 18 mini modes that you play through. So yeah, there's over 90 mode-based objective mini modes that are each 30 seconds. What I really wanted to do was make this approachable from for casual players as well as experienced pinball players. One of the ways of doing that is if you have a mode shot that is maybe more difficult than a different mode shot, I'm not going to lock you into that where you have to shoot this, and if you don't shoot this, well, too bad, you're never going to move on. Moving modes are based on your 30 seconds to complete this scene, and if you don't complete this scene, oh well, we move on anyways. You don't get the completion bonus for it, but you move into the next scene anyways. So what I've noticed is that casual players will start a movie, not necessarily focus on it, but they're still seeing the scenes from the film go past, even though they're not completing those movie scenes. They still need to experience the movie. I would say you're closer to 30 to 40 shots to complete a movie. like I think of a specific mode like blue Cornish pixies that's a scene out of the second film all of the shots light up blue because there's pixies flying around you hit one pixie, two pixie, three pixies and then the end of the scene is you hit the Hermione targets and you see her shout Mobulus and she shoots her wand up in the air and all the pixies freeze and then it moves on to the next scene so it's like yeah there's four shots in that mode but it's not difficult to make those three shots and then hit the Hermione targets. Correct When you start that movie you progress linearly through that movie That was one of the points that I had to spell out multiple times to the non people that are behind the Potter franchise Believe me, you don't want, I don't want, the fans don't want to play Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone every single time they hit the start button. That is not fun. believe me it's not fun it's not interesting it gets old it gets repetitive and it will not be successful for this game Welcome everybody to Canadian Pinball Podcast. Sorry for that long intro, but in those eight minutes, I really wanted us to have sort of like a foundation for Harry Potter Pinball and how Eric and team approached the game. I know it was eight minutes long, but I saved you hours of having to listen to interviews to understand what is going into this game. What was their design philosophy? And now we have a much better understanding of how they coded this game, what the direction was, and how they wanted to make this an appealing game to all Potter fans. Now, I have played this game and I'm going to tell you right now, it's a really fast game you're going to be holding on. I'm not sure that someone who doesn't know how to play pinball is even going to start a single mode, let alone go through all of those different modes and see 96 characters. And I get that there was a lot, right? Eric really wanted to make sure that if you had your favorite character, there would be a moment in this game where you could connect with what you love about the Harry Potter franchise. Look, it was a big undertaking. I don't feel like anybody could really wrap eight movies into one game and make it feel like you're getting every major moment and it's coming at you the right way. But after listening to Eric and hearing the interviews, they have all of the rights to all of the clips from the movie. So it's all in there. When you play this game, and I like the fact that it is linear. When you start a movie, you are playing through the major moments in that movie in a linear way. You are hitting two to four shots to get through each mode. I love that. For some reason though, when I play this game, it doesn't feel like that because what's happening right now and it is fixable and I think they are hearing from everybody what is happening right now when you start the first moment of a film the clips are coming at you and they are very muted you can't hear from the characters they're just kind of happening in the middle of that screen. And also when you're in that moment from that movie, everything else going on on the display is also registering. And I think that's the big mistake. They've got everything layered and stacked at once. So you might be in the first moment of a film and then also quidditch is happening on the side or these shots are registering something else on the side. So you've got all these side things happening at the same time you're in the movie moment. So if what Eric and team wanted to accomplish was giving Potter fans a feeling of connection to the characters and the moments they've loved, they currently are failing horribly at that with the way the current code is. And I think what everybody is asking for, because the game, everybody, is so beautiful, minus the topper, it's so beautiful to shoot, it's so beautiful to look at, the gameplay is amazing, the mechs are fun, I understand why he put the elements he did into the game now, I'm okay with all of that. There is a masterpiece waiting to come through in this game. And all they need to do is when you start those moments, they need to turn on the voices of the characters. They need to give us the sound effects from the film. They just need to play the film clips. And so when you hit those two to four shots, I just want to feel connected to that. Everybody wants to feel that connection. And I don't want everything else happening at the same time. I think the problem is this, because I think the way it's also currently coded, where there's going to be just a couple shots for the mode, and then all the other shots are also lit up for other things you can achieve and accomplish at once. So it's sort of like two to three games are happening at once at all times. And I think that's the part that is confusing. and the one thing you shouldn't bury, the one thing that shouldn't be turned off, the one thing that shouldn't be muted are the clips from the movie. And so Eric and team, we are here as a community saying we love your creation. You've put so much in it. Now, just simplify it and let it sing to us. Let the game connect with us. I think they're going to figure it out. I would be more worried if Eric said, it's not linear. You're not going to go through each movie the way you do in the movies. I would be worried about that. I'm so happy to hear that those six movies are going to come through in a linear fashion. I think that's important. You can choose your own adventure, But when you're on that adventure, it makes sense not to mash up the films, right? You're not going to go from like young Harry to older Harry and you're not going to mess up the scenes the way Star Wars does where it like stack scenes from different movies on top of each other makes no sense. How good would Star Wars have been if when you play the game, you select from one of the three movies, A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. and then you play through each of those to get to the next one. It would be so much more fun. So universally, I think we're all feeling the same way about the game. I don't think we're feeling overly negative. I think we really want to give Jersey Jack the right kind of constructive feedback and I hope they listen I hope they make a new topper I don know if they going to Now that Melvin over at DPX is partnered with Lior they know who to call to get a better topper for this machine So I guess right now the thing is this. We know how they're going to make Harry Potter. There's going to be a wait because they're going to make CEs and then they're going to make Wizard Editions and then they're going to make Arcade Editions and then they're going to go back and make CE. they're gonna do a little bit of like, one week is gonna be this, the next week is this, or maybe it's one month of CEs. You know they're gonna wanna make mostly CEs. That's where the profits lie. That's where the margins are the best. The margins are the worst on the arcade edition of the game. Now, when Eric talks about casual people enjoying the 96 modes of Harry Potter, I just wanna say, look, And I get now why they're doing the QR codes to set the game on easy because I think they want to get those casual players to the things faster and easier. But the thing is this, if you've ever seen someone who's never played pinball before, they're not getting to anything. They don't even know what's going on and they never will know what's going on. I think in Harry Potter, you have to hit the scoop on the right side to start a mode. They are never going to hit that shot ever. You know what I'm saying? So like as much as I love their intent to get casual people into the game, you have to first and foremost make sure this game is exciting and fulfilling to people that love pinball and anyone that loves pinball that is jumping on this game right now. They're confused. They're not happy about the way the movie is buried in the code and there's just too much going on at once. So I would say start by making a game that makes the community fall in love and then figure out how to get the casual people to fall in love with the game as well. Now, speaking of toppers, I have some bad news for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, people. The topper company that was making toppers for the DPX game has gone out of business. So they can't get any more toppers and they're still making the games. So games are going to start going out to customers without toppers. The good news is that Melvin has found a new source for new toppers. It's just going to take a while to make sure the quality is there and everybody is getting what they paid for. But there is always some delays. There's always some issues with parts in the pinball world. I haven't been into the DPX thread very much. It's always at the top of pin side. There's this guy like Tony Horner or something or Homer. He won't let up about this game. The promise from DPX is that you would get your game by the end of the year. If you did not, you will get a refund. We are not even close to the end of the year. We all know the numbers don't add up. They're not going to make all 500 by the end of the year. I think they'll be somewhere around 350. I know that they will happily give you a refund if you want off the ship come January 1st. So until then, I don't understand why people are complaining. You will not lose any money at all. You were never promised a game by a certain date. So just put on your big boy pants and either wait for your refund or wait for your game. That is the agreement. look at this chopper in predator pinball anyone else sick and tired of the slow reveal of this game it is bad because every new thing we see gets even worse that chopper looks like a rubber chew toy that you would throw to a dog that Killian would play with in his bathtub and I don't get it. So you had a nicer helicopter mechanism in ABBA and you're going to put crap like that into Predator. And look, Cengiz has all the assets, RETROCENGO. They're launching this game through him. I mean, they didn't pick anybody like me or carry. They didn't divide and conquer. I mean, there's a lot of people with a lot more reach. They went with my friend with the Arnold voice. Yes, we are friends again. Don won't bury the hatchet, but Cengiz did. So look, in what, six days, we're going to see the game. June 18th, Juneteenth, we are going to finally see Predator. By the time we see it, we already know almost everything about this game. I would just stop showing anything now. Just show us everything. We're over this slow tease. What we do know now is there is no Arnold in the game. I think now it's going to come down to how many are they going to make? I know the price of the game. The price is $10,000. So Predator is going to be the same price as a Harry Potter arcade edition. What else is going on in the world of pinball? I've noticed a lot of people can't talk about Harry Potter without saying Stern's in trouble. Stern sucks. King Kong sucks. Now, all of a sudden, like everybody who loves Potter is crapping on a Keith Elwin game. And I just implore everybody out there. I don't think King Kong is as bad as people are saying. I also don't think Harry Potter is as good as people are saying because of the code issues. I think both games have strengths. I think they have weaknesses. And I encourage everybody. Here's the good news. I encourage everybody just to go play both machines. You're never going to have a problem with either machine getting any model of that machine you want. I haven't seen it like this in forever. Like who thought that Harry Potter CE would just be unlimited? It's unlimited. Who thought a Keith Elwin L. Lee would not sell out? Not only that, not even close to selling out. Who thought that, right? King Kong, we thought that everything this guy touched was going to sell out instantly. And you know what's weird is when people are like, what should I get? What should I get? It's like they ask people for their opinions and everyone's just like, dude, just go play one. Go play one. And if you're not near a game, buy a $150 plane ticket, go to a pinball show or a museum somewhere or an arcade and then play it for a day versus spending $10,000 to $15,000 using someone else's opinion about whether or not you're going to like the game. All right. It's that simple. Here's what I love as we're heading towards July. We're going to get the next Stern machine sooner than you think. So the John Borg Star Wars episode one through three is going to be next. Now, will there be in two weeks, and I think there's going to be, there will be a Jaws 50th anniversary game. It is coming out. It's not going to be in black and white. And it shouldn't be in black and white because nothing about Jaws was ever in black and white. Godzilla had black and white films and shows So did King Kong Jaws did not It was from the 70s And so yeah why would it A 1975 movie why would it have a black and white edition So Jaws 50th coming out Curious. It's probably going to be a premium. $9,800. I don't think it's going to be limited. You know, but Stern didn't sell what they needed to of King Kong. So are they going to do something with this game? Are they going to limit it in some way? You know, if they make a limited version of a premium, that isn't going against what they said. They said they're not going to make another LE of a game that already has an LE. But I don't know if they mean like more of the exact looking game. I think what they meant was just not another LE, right? Jurassic Park wasn't the same look as the original LE. It was a new LE and then everybody got pissed because then every version of the game sort of like lost value and they burned everybody. So Stern Pinball, John Borg is going to do Star Wars episode one through three. And then the rumor is maybe Keith Elwin on Pokemon. There's also most likely going to be a remake or a remaster of Tron or The Walking Dead sometime in the fall. But man, Stern's got to figure something out. And they know that. Like I was talking to George and Seth. They know that Harry Potter is creating a big wave in pinball. They know Harry Potter has sold a lot of units. And they know that they have thousands of games that are unsold. And I think the one thing we're going to see is more of these games on sale, significant sales on old titles that are still in a box. You are going to have to move those thousands of Venoms and John Wicks and X-Men. These games are sitting in boxes. I heard a number that has to be wrong. It was something like Stern has 17,000 unsold games sitting in boxes that dealers and distros did not order. How are they ever going to move that inventory? I don't think the number's that high. It's definitely in the thousands. The problem is with some of these games, nobody wants them. Nobody wants them. The demand for them is so low and the supply of units is so high that every month these games are going to lose hundreds, if not thousands in value. The same is true with old Jersey Jack games. Godfather and Guns and Roses those LEs are going to be worth about $5,000 by the end of this year because Harry Potter is so much better and I just don't think people are going to want those games same is true with Avatar I know people are trying to hype Avatar now like if you get on it people blasted this game when it came out but it's really good gang it's not it's a soulless journey it's a theme we didn't want the movies aren't coming through in the game. And it's not just me saying this. Look, most of the pinball buying community has had time on Avatar. And there's a reason why they didn't buy it. And I get some people don't want to see that reason, but it's pretty obvious why most people don't want Avatar. And yeah, it's a lot of fun to play a game when you have low expectations. It's also a lot of fun to play a game when you know you're not going to keep it forever. You're just going to bang on it. Then you're going to move it on. Sure, of course, it's fun. Of course, it's got some moments, but people don't want it in their lineup. It's that simple. When you open up someone's game room door, people want those games to telegraph what they think is great pinball. And we don't think Avatar is great pinball. Harry Potter, different story. I think everyone's going to proudly display their Harry Potter pinball in their game rooms. I really, really hope the team over there unwakes the masterpiece that is in this game. So anything else happening in the pinball world? We got Predator next week. We've got Pedretti Gaming. Where's their Tales of the Arabian Nights? Where's that game? Do you hear anybody talk about Merlin's Arcade? Remember that game by Turner Pinball? I don't hear anybody like unboxing one. Not sure what is happening there. I have a hard time believing, especially after Harry Potter. Remember Merlin's Arcade with all the options is the same price basically as a Harry Potter pinball machine with everything. They didn't yank anything out of that game. I think it's kind of game over for Turner Pinball. I just don't think he's going to survive with games like that. Is there anybody else we're missing? We don't talk much about CGC. Where are the Merlin's edition of Medieval Madness? Those games are still not out. I think a lot of people, and I mean this, you might have paid for your Merlin's edition of Medieval Madness, but you also now might want a Harry Potter. You might want a Predator. It's why I always tell everybody, you just got to wait till these games are made. You got to wait till they're in a box. Like buying these games and then waiting a year or two the way Chicago Gaming Company always does it. I love that people were like, well, this time they're actually going to be on schedule. Yeah, sure. These games, what's the holdup? What's the holdup? They made this game already like three times. Why would it be hard to make it again? It's just like they're changing the powder coat on the armor. Why is it so difficult? I don't even know what's after this game. Is it going to be a new Twilight Zone? Is it going to be Halo? So many rumors, only so much room, only so much money. Everybody, thank you for being a member of Canada's Pinball Podcast. I might drive to Automated today to play a little bit more of Harry Potter pinball. Now that I know how the modes are, I'm going to just like aim for them and see what the experience is like. Everybody have a great Friday. I'm hoping to do the Saturday morning spectacular tomorrow. We shall see. We'll talk live all about what's going on in pinball. And thank you all of you for your monthly subscriptions. I know that you could spend that $5 at a coffee shop and get one drink, or you could get two to three episodes of what I believe is the most entertaining and unbiased pinball podcast that is out there. Have a great day. Yeah!