We, we, we're, we're three guys who like to talk in the hall. So we can't afford to blast our name. We're showing traffic down the sub in the hall. And we call ourselves Triple Drain, Triple Drain, Triple Drain. We're Triple, Triple Drain. Triple Drain. Okay. Triple Drain. All right, I'm awake now. I'm ready. Yeah, Travis, right before this, he said he was low energy. Because he doesn't get enough sleep and, what was it, Monica beats you at night? Yeah. With her legs. Oh, I'm sure, yeah. I'm sure any man out there that has a spouse, I'm sure they can, yeah, they kind of, yeah. Well, like I said, low energy. But I'm sure it's happened to everybody to where, you know, you're sleeping on your side of the bed and your wife decides, like, well, she owns half of your side of the bed also. Yep, yep. at 3.45 in the morning with a swift kick right to your shin. And then you immediately yell out shit. And then that wakes your wife up and then you're like, you're the bad guy because you woke her up. So then you've got to have a five minute discussion about that. But I'm not complaining. I love married life. Never experienced that in any way. I actually told my wife this morning, I said, did you sleep poorly? And she's like, what do you mean? I said, when I got in bed, um, Like, I got in bed, and she tossed and turned so much. It was like covers on, covers off, covers on, covers off. And I was like, I don't know. She doesn't remember any of it. It's just whatever. Does she, like, steal the covers from you? Oh, yeah. Oh, it's the roll. It's the alligator roll, the, like, death roll kind of thing. They grab it, and I don't know. Now, do you have a heated blanket? No. All I know is you guys are keeping me from playing my Harry Potter game. Oh, true, true, true, true, true, true, true. This is pinball. It's a pinball podcast, right? I was ready to talk about sleeping with our wives in heated blankets. I sleep hot. I don't need electricity to heat my body. No, see, I want a heated blanket on me because Monica has our room ice cold. And in the middle of the night, she rolls over, takes the covers. So she has the heated blanket now. And instead, like, I'm cold. But hers might be heated. Maybe you need separate blankets. Well, that's what I think. But we share the same blanket, and it's heated on both sides, and she just doubles up on the heat. So let's just get it all out there because this is what people tune in for. So Monica's a terrible driver, right? Horrible. Horrible. Because you said you can out-bake her. I totally can, yes. You can out-bake her. It's not a man or woman thing, Joel. It's just science. I can out-bake my wife, yes. No, I said, so we're specifically calling out your wife, Monica. Yeah, that's fine. I hope she's listening to this. She needs to know this. She doesn't share well? That's what I'm hearing? No, not at all. No. That's true. That's the real truth. Okay, well. So do you guys have an extra spot on your couch after this? Anytime you need it, Travis. Thank you, Tom Graff. And you have Harry Potter, so you've been a bigger reason. How's that game going for you? I have literally just looked at the play field. I can confirm the artwork has not been fixed on mine, but I heard they are fixing the artwork. Oh, you're talking about like the dragon? The derpy dragon. I think it's an error, so it doesn't really bother me. He just hears really well. This is what I will say, because I've had more than one person reach out to me. Because apparently some distributors now are saying, hey, your game's ready, but do you want it? Or would you rather wait until the artwork is fixed? And so I've had people ask me, like, how bad is it? You've stood in front of the game. I will tell you, and this is not me Win Schilling. I didn't notice it. Like, I did not see it at all until it was pointed out. And what I will say, I get it. The derpy dragon, the dragon is kind of in the center of the play field. So it's once you see it, you can't not. I feel like it might actually increase the value of it. It could. It could. You never know. I'm not worried about it. I mean, imagine that if the AI dragon increases the value of the game over the non-AI dragon. But it's a lot of the things that they pointed out. Like, they were pointing out some weird stuff with the train. The train is behind a scoop. Like, it's behind a scoop slash plastic. So if I'm standing in front of the game, I'm 6'4", and I lean over as much as I can to see the train, still from that sight, I can't see it. Right. So it's just like, honestly, if it's a collector's piece from your point of view, and you're going to look all over it and just gaze at its wonder, sure, maybe wait, get the fixed version. But if you just want to play pinball, I do not think you will be upset with the derpy dragon. I'm going to play the crap out of it. I don't care. Honestly, the radcals on the Wizard Edition, they really pop. That's what I was going to ask you. How does that look? It looks amazing, honestly. so go ahead I want to hear Tom Talks without Tom Talks this is excellent it's high energy Tom he's picking up the slack for me right now the Tom Talks Tom Talks interrupt Tom Talks you know this causes me not to talk when you play that um go ahead no need an intro to talk all right go ahead yeah uh the the powder coating is amazing the uh like the it's got like it's kind of like um avengers avengers has that like glitter effect but it's like thousand times that and then if you if you shine a light on it like it it looks different colors. It's really, it's kind of neat. It's been a good podcast. I'll see you later. I will say a hundred percent. I, if I was in on Harry Potter, I'd go wizard edition, not only because the character, I like the characters and it's nothing against the CE art. but having the CE here in the house, they did some cool unique stuff with the Radcows because it's not all super shiny. Like they did a, they have areas of it shiny. So they tried to integrate the sheen with the artwork, but having Dune here, which Dune essentially has a barrels of fun version of the Radcows. There's something about that super glossy, beautiful, I don't know. So I think, I think the wizards, I haven't seen the wizards edition in person, but I think that's a killer way to go. And then what Tom was saying about the power codes. I got to jet for just, like, two minutes. That's fine. Okay. Tom's a busy man. It's because you played the Tom Talks thing. I was like, okay. I can check out for ten minutes. He's like, this is where I'm silent for 30 straight minutes. You guys go. Yeah. Oh, his wife. Yeah, so she heard me shit-talking Monica, probably. Oh, and then she came in. What, does he have everybody there? What is going on? Oh, do we got Carl Weathers stuff? Yeah, Tom's waving at the camera. I wonder if it's bad Carl Weathers and he's having to. Well, it's Wisconsin. The Carl Weathers's always bad up there, right? I wish he'd probably have a blizzard right now. I wish he'd put his wife on it. My wife's trying to ruin my podcast. What's the problem? Oh, he doesn't have his headphone on. No, but we can act like he does. I would love for him to put his wife on. I love how, for the ones that are listening to this just on audio. Yeah, they don't know what's going on. Like right now, Tom is like totally gone out of the screen, but Tom's wife, and I guess friend of Tom's wife, is walking around too. I don't know what they're doing. Are they playing Harry Potter? Now there's a dog? There is. There's a dog. I hear a dog barking. I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I mean, this is what happens when you podcast in the middle of the day right here. In the middle of the day on a Friday, yeah. Yeah, it's hopping at Tom Graff. Yeah. So Dune, Radcows, what were we talking about? We were talking about the Radcows, but he's just saying the Radcows on the Wizard Edition look incredible. And he said the powder coating is kind of a chameleon type effect, where in different lighting it looks like different colors. So, I mean, I will say every time that I've unboxed the J.J.P. pen and had one here in the basement, the presentation that they have is incredible. It's really, really good. Like, visually, they're stunning. They're always stunning. I think the Harry Potter pen, I think, looks awesome, personally. I mean, like, the AI, it's like, it's whatever. Like, we talked about the game for, what, an hour and a half last podcast, and none of us knuckleheads realized it at all. So, Tom, what is going on? Pest control. Oh. Ask your wife if she wants the guest spot. We can ask her what her favorite. Michelle, you want to get in on this? Favorite Harry Potter movie. Do you like Travis and Joel right now? She's like, no. Nah. Look, she's trying to figure out the nicest way to say no. She looks annoyed. Well, Joel and I have that effect on women. So, yeah, there you go. Oh, that's great. I've met her. I've met her. She's a very nice person. She's a sweetheart. Yeah, she's awesome. All right. So we were agreeing with you, Tom, that J.J.P. makes a beautiful-looking pen, and I have no doubt that the Wizards edition in person looks great. You have not played it, though. You said it was delivered just a few hours ago. and you haven't hit the start button. You haven't played yours, but you have played the game, right? Correct. So I want to give you one second, and I won't hit the button. I will not hit the button. I want to hear, though, because this is what was interesting. We got a little bit of hate after last episode because I was sharing my initial impressions of Harry Potter. Neither of you had played it, but yet there were some critical comments made. I look at them as constructive criticism, them, but there were some people that were quick to point out, like, why are they even doing this when two of the guys haven't even played it? So now that all that's said... You don't have to play the game to watch a video and realize what the rule set is. To you, critical comments, but yes. Anybody else that plays pinball realizes that. You can use your two eyeballs and watch Tom Graffer, you play a game, and you can see what the rule set is. You don't have to play it to know that. What is going on? Is he losing his chair? I think so. Did he lose his – Yeah, he's done. Or are they already leaving? Oh, done. Was that it? I think that's it. So no more pests around Tom King's. I hope that's it. Okay. So wait, wait. Pest control was there, and they said we need to – like, we need you to leave for a few minutes? I think they were checking traps and things like that. Oh. Okay. I think they just wanted to be close to you because that's – Yeah. They wanted to get – I feel like they heard about Harry Potter. They wanted to get on the podcast. So what we're saying, Tom, is what was really cool was after we recorded last episode, it was like a few hours later, you went and played it on location. Yes. And so now that you've spent time, you've streamed it a few times. Do you agree with your initial impression? Has thoughts changed on Harry Potter? What are your views on Harry Potter? I really enjoy the game. I think it's really cool. I mean, honestly, I think it could be Jersey Jack's best game. Elton John's really cool I really like that game but there's just so much going on on Harry Potter and I mean I do agree with some of the criticisms like we've talked about like as far as maybe some of the movie stuff needs to be more fleshed out into the open but in regards to gameplay I think it's really good Okay, so I saw somebody on the Internet say ScoopGate. What are your views on the Scoop? Do you feel the Scoop is hard to hit or to eat? Like, do you think novices are going to be fine with it? The one I played at Lumberjack Johnny's, I did not find the Scoop hard to hit. So, and that was kind of their loner that they had, and now they have a new one. and I've only played a game on the new one. Interestingly enough, at League, we started a league at Lumberjack Johnny's, and it was the first game I played. And actually I was kind of like, oh, crap, like I remember some of this stuff, but I don't remember all of this stuff. So I was just trying to go for the tri-ball wizard kind of multiball. Golden trio multiball, yeah. Thank you. and then, like, stack that with the term kind of thing. And I ended up winning because of that. But where was I going with this, Joel? No, just kidding. It's too hard to hit. Do you think it's – It's too hard to hit, yes. I mean, it's somewhat hard to hit, but not – I don't think it's, like, a deal breaker or anything like that. They have since changed – Where what they did was in easy mode, there is a setting now where you can allow term modes to start based on any subway entrance. So the scoop, you can hit it from the front. You can technically hit it from behind under the flipper. And then the other subway entrance is the potions shot. So the thought is hopefully a novice type player would fall into the shot at some point in time during their game. Sure. That's not a medium. Yes. I don't know if we talked about this last podcast, but I think we're all in agreeance, like, maybe starting. And I think you alluded to this last podcast, Joel, is maybe starting that, letting you start the movie, like, right away. Yep. Because your wife was having trouble hitting it. Yep. Yep. That was the thought, was any movie-based IP, and this is what Travis voiced, he really hadn't played the game, so how could he have a valid opinion? How would I know about pinball rules? His view was, you know, with such an immense IP, you know, people want to start, they want to see the movies as quick as possible. So if you start on the plunge, and one of the things we referenced was Evil Dead. Evil Dead, right at the beginning, you pick your movie. You pick your movie before you even start the game. You're playing movie one or movie two, and then everything focuses on that. So I don't know. I mean, I didn't know Eric listened to the episode. Eric, when you were dead, you didn't reference us. I think what people need to understand, too, is like the three of us talking, we talk from experience. Now, does it mean that we know more than everybody else? No, it doesn't. But we also have an experienced background. And I think anybody listening to this podcast probably has played pinball long enough to where they understand the assignment, right? Like they know what pinball is. They have a general idea what's going on. What we're talking about, or specifically what I'm talking about, is what does somebody that is just super casual, doesn't know much about pinball, just sees an arcade, might coin drop every now and again. They don't listen to podcasts. They don't watch videos. They don't know the next game coming out. They just want to try it out. They don't have a flow chart. Right, exactly. So for them, each ball might be one to two minutes of an experience, and that's it. They might have an experience of a game less than four or five minutes. They're not playing deep in the game. So that's specifically what I would be concerned about, right, or just thinking about. And that's why the games have different software settings so you can allow for that. That's the whole thing. It's the same way. You want to make a rule set that's accessible for as many people as possible close to the start button, but then deep enough and nuanced enough to where the talented players or the players that want to know and want to work deeper can. They have more meat on the bone for them. That's like where that really meshes together. Yeah, I agree. And I know one of the things we had mentioned was if you allow a movie to start right at the beginning for a location type pin and a casual player, if they select the first movie in the ball ends, they're going to be a little more inclined to play again because they want to see the second movie and the third and the fourth. Like, I think if you add that feature, their replayability may go from one to two games to probably six because they're going to want to pick all six movies, you know. So, I don't know. It was, you know, we've voiced all that. I think my opinion on the game is still the same. I'm with Tom. I think when I – I think me personally, Jersey Jack's top three games are Harry Potter, Elton John, and The Hobbit. Those are my three favorite Jersey Jack pins. Kind of going back in time You know Steve Ritchie's Star Wars game Let's say Do you think if they would have did that For that game Like you pick You pick A New Hope Or you pick Empire Strikes Back Or you pick Return of the Jedi Let's call it the wrong thing Do you think that would have made that game better? in some instances that's tough I do in the early I know Dwight listens to this podcast and I really enjoy Dwight Dwight games a lot but I do think that as much as I've learned to love and appreciate Star Wars code and I know you guys both appreciate Star Wars as a game because you know there's good tournament strategies and what not but when it comes to just a theme immersive experience yeah I think I would have preferred to like kind of live in the new hope world for a little while and play only new hope world modes and then maybe you change to empire strikes back and then i mean that's yeah i think that would have been an interesting way to go and the only thing i can really compare it to is something like an evil dead where evil dead or alien alien the alien game is alien and aliens i feel like you kind of get a two for one with aliens it's like i'm gonna play alien for a while and then i'm using the same AI layout, and I'm going to play Aliens for a while. So I'm a fan of that. I'm a fan of that type of code. Do you think, though, they don't do that because it would get more repetitive? I mean, the way that Harry Potter is coded right now, the base part of the game, all the multiballs, all the everything outside of the terms is the exact same. Nothing's changing there. And then the terms, really the way to look at the terms is kind of you're just picking one of six modes. It just happens that the modes are really long. So I think, I mean, with all type of pinball, you can get pretty repetitive. I mean, if you really want to go non-repetitive, that's Avatar. I think something like Harry Potter, though, because there are six movies, you know, well, there's more than that. But the main, you know what I'm saying. The way they get, yeah, you get six terms. Right, six terms. You know, I don't see that as getting too repetitive, I guess. whereas maybe some other game could. It's hard to say. My curiosity is, and I haven't got a chance to play it yet, but what I'm wondering with the way that the terms work, since sometimes it's not the easiest part to know where you're at in it just because the timer is constantly running, right, and just the light show is just so out there. Now, obviously, Joel and I talked about this back and forth where figuring out the inserts, one side is advanced term, the other side, I don't think it has anything on it. It's just another insert, right? That's side by side. So I think with something like that, it's just I often wonder, like, how much is too much for somebody to understand, right? Because it's a lot to take in, to read inserts, to watch lives, to listen to sounds. But that's all part of the feedback of pinball. I mean, that's what makes pinball pinball. So it's an interesting puzzle to see people try to figure that out and to see software people. I can't imagine. That's not easy to do, right, to figure out how you want to guide a player. I don't envy that at all. That's going to be insanely difficult to do. Any type of mode stacking, I mean, the truth is even there are certain modes in pinball. Even if you're running that mode and there's no other hurry up, there's nothing else running at the same time. There are certain modes in pinball that the mode itself is confusing. And then if you stack on top of that a multiball with, you know, the fact that the choreography is overlapping now, things can get confusing really quick and what Travis is alluding to is I filmed the tutorial for Harry Potter and that was a challenge it was a challenge to film because yes you love it I know at your core it hurts you that I do tutorials by throwing the ball but it works that's your little nuance I told you straight up I tried to do that a few years ago on my Marv Loco channel I'm like this is a hot mess I cannot do it Well, I told Josh Sharpe, I said, we're going to do the Joel World Championship Invitational Tournament. But there's no flipping. Everybody just throws a ball. And Joel will be the champion. At Indisc, where instead of like the two-minute drill, it's going to be like a two-minute drill, just throwing the ball with your hand to see how many switches you can hit, see who gets the top score. We can pick up on the Europeans now. The kids are in trouble now. We'll figure it out. I think when it comes to the amount of time I've invested in doing it, I'm probably right up there with world champ, you know. I enjoy it. I mean, what's interesting, I mean, there's a whole thing here when it comes to learning, right, and then how well you know something. And apparently the top level of knowing something is like there's like understanding and repeating and this and this. The top level of knowing something is teaching it. And so the tutorials have been a ridiculous challenge of, okay, I've got to learn this well enough to teach it. And I'll tell you, even some of the games, I know I'm missing stuff or I feel like I may be explaining it in the wrong way or whatnot. But I try. I try to learn the game as best I can. And a great way to learn it is you take the glass off and you see what it does. You see what that light does. And the Harry Potter tutorial, though, recording that was a challenge because I wanted to show each part of it separately. And doing that, avoiding the overlap, is hard. The reality is if I was going to play Harry Potter, the first thing I want to do is start a term. But I didn't want to do that on the tutorial. I wanted to show what Golden Shrio Multiball looked like independent because I didn't want that light show to be confused with the term light show. that's also going on. And then I wanted, you know, same thing. I tried to keep all the tour Hogwarts separate and the Quidditch match separate. And you can only do so much before stuff starts to overlap or hurry ups or you mistakenly hit this and it starts that. So once you get it, though, once it clicks, I mean, I will, you know, Joe Katz and the JGP crew, the lights make sense. Like the light show does make sense. It's not just gibberish, even though it might look like that, but there can be a whole lot of light show going on all at once. And you kind of have to study up or play it a lot to really be confident in what the lights mean. It's just a matter of chunking out and separating, isolating features, right, and then building up your mental representation of what that feature is. And then if you want to memorize what the sequence is, like, that's fine. There's different levels to it. You can get there if you want to. But anybody listening, that's a simple way to do it. Don't try to take one giant bite out of the full elephant. Like, just separate it. Like, if you want to learn the terms, just learn one, like, not even a full term. Just go fall and figure that sequence out. True. And just follow that roadmap. Keep repeating it over and over again. You're going to figure it out. It's going to stick. That's really ultimately what it leads to. Well, I also think, like, there are certain Stern games that it's become, like, green insert means multiball or lock related like that's kind of a key or yellow industry standard yeah yellow is typically mode shots like i know on turtles yellow is your mode shots or um i know like dnd yellow was like to progress to the next thing so there's certain and there's certain times where it's consistent the challenge with jjp is the term shots are a a shot the color is red and gold and it's so the the insert is flashing between red and gold and the the concept there is those are hogwart color hogwarts call colors which colors colors it's yes so it's hard it's hard to say um no it's fine i can help you with words i'm very good at that thank you so much they uh i just there were a time my brother even made the comment he's like i would love for there to be a setting where i could change the mode insert color to hot pink you know just give me something obvious. And that's, yeah, and maybe this is a good transition to actually what I want to talk about with Dune. The hot pink on Dune? Yes, yes. Yeah, that was it. There you go. But to wrap up Harry Potter, I still, I loved the game. I really enjoyed the game. And now that it's gone, I really enjoyed how it shot. I really liked the layout. I thought it was a fun, unique experience. The lack of wire forms feeding the flippers is something different. The outlanes actually being the inlanes is awesome. Like, I enjoyed it. So you think you're going to get the game? No, I'm not going to get the game. No? Why is she going to get the game? And I will tell you why. I really thought there was a huge chance that I was going to get it because my wife loves Harry Potter. Right. But you know what game she actually is enjoying more? Dune. Dune. My wife, who's a huge Harry Potter fan, has enjoyed the Dune movies. but a huge Harry Potter fan. She has been loving Dune. And so just side note, why my wife is playing pinball all of a sudden? No idea. No idea, but I'm not fighting it. I'm not fighting it. She's down here playing. She played the heck out of Harry Potter. She's now playing Dune almost daily. I'm going to go play some pinball. Yeah, almost daily she's down here playing Dune. And I've asked her, I'm like, what is it? What is it about Dune that you really enjoy? And the two things she talks about is, one, the worm mech. So what is good is right now, if you haven't experienced Desert Power Multiball, which involves the Worm Mech by Ball 3, it's lit by default. So all you have to do is hit the worm and boom, you're in the multiball. And that's where you get to see the magnet, and it grabs, and it comes up. But the main thing she talks about is the light show. The light show in Dune is phenomenal. And there's two parts to that. One is the HAL, the Horizontal Aerial Lighting System. So it's subtle. It adds, it does a fantastic job transitioning from light. There's two phases in the game, daytime and nighttime. So not only does it do that, but there are certain moments in the game where the ball stops. And what they do with the house system really gives an amazing light show. But it's not in your eyes. That's what she's been complaining about. She was complaining about Godzilla. She's like, Godzilla, you know, she'll hit a shot and, you know, the flashers are going off. And she's just like, oh, see, that's too much. You know, which I disagree. I mean, she was saying that about Godzilla and Cactus Canyon, like, too much light, but maybe people are really sensitive to that. So she loves the light show. But then, too, the game inserts, there are moments where, you know, there will be an explosion or something, and all the inserts will flash a color or this or that. But most of the time, only the inserts that you need to shoot are lit. There's no other – there's nothing else going. and that is such a drastic difference from Harry Potter to this where this at any given moment it's like if you're fighting a harvester there'll be a yellow shot which is the ornithopter two blue shots which are your laser gun and a red shot and that's it it's like that's the only things that are lit on the whole play field you know there's no so I don't know if that's just it's communicating to her what to do better or she's not as distracted whatever but you know what you should do What? You should ask her. You should communicate. Because that's what my wife tells me at 345 in the morning. It's, she's, yeah, because I've asked her, I'm like, do you want to know what to do? Like, she has no idea about, okay, go through the left-hand lane to light your spinners and then rip spinners, and that's how spice or water gets on the plate. So do you tell her what to do? She doesn't care about any of that. Or does she say no? I ask her, do you want to know what to do? No. She's like, no. See, I have it in my head. Like, Tom, this is what I have in my head, that Joel just walks up when his wife starts to play Dune. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. She goes to his side. He takes off the glass, the lock bar, and he takes his ball. He says, let me show you. Oh, yeah, let me show you what to do. No, no, no, no. Have you watched my tutorial? Once again, I pointed out that I don't know why my wife is playing pinball right now. But the last thing I want to do is stop that. so I don't need to mansplain or talk like I don't need to do any of that if she is content with walking down here and playing by herself I not going to you know but the moment she asks hey why is it doing that I happy to My wife will give a tour of my game room to the pest control people but she won't play the game. Instead of Joel tutorials, you need to call that Joel-splaining. Yeah, that just needs to be the new thing. Because you're doing really good. I'll give it to you. When I watch them, it's excellent. I have fun. I know you have fun. because you questioned, why are you doing this? I'm legitimately asking questions. That's how I can learn. I get to tweak you a little bit. I think that's funny. But, yeah, no, I genuinely want to know. I filmed the Dune tutorial yesterday, so Zach will edit that all up. And that was a challenge just because the game's not finished. The game's not finished, and I think there's large portions of the game. I mean, there's no mini wizard modes. There's no wizard modes really at all. It's just the Harvester battles and the prophecy modes and kind of going back and forth between that. But I will say what's in the game currently is great. I mean, I think it's – we've talked about this before, revealing a pin. You know, what do you want to do? Do you just want to put a whole bunch in the game but all of it's unpolished? Or would you rather put less in the game but make sure what's in it is polished so that those first five, ten minutes of somebody playing, they're going to have a great experience? and I will say Dune did the latter part of that. The first five or ten minutes are very polished. The one thing that it is missing right now is call-outs. There's very little speech in the game, both any sort of direction, like a narrator-type thing, and then movie clips. There's not a ton of audio in the game yet. It's all coming. Apparently they have, like, 400 lines recorded. It's all coming. It's just not here yet. That's the biggest thing that I feel is missing, but what's in the game, the modes are fun. They're deep. They're choreographed well. The lighting's great. I've really enjoyed – oh, just a – what's the word? Just a heads up to all Dune owners. They redesigned the cabinet. They redesigned the cabinet. The legs on Dune, the cabinet is now designed where you do not have to increase the leg levelers at all. Apparently, the leg levelers being flat is 6.5 degrees. so I played the game Zach set up the game Zach was telling me the game shoots hard so I just put the legs on how he delivered it we streamed our whole first night that way and it wasn't until after the stream that I put my leveler, my digital level thing on the game it was reading 7.8 it was 7.8 degrees which is crazy steep and so on Dune they redesigned the cabinet between Dune and Labyrinth the leg levelers are supposed to be all the way down, which I think American Pinball was the same way, which was basically the game's design so you don't have to spike up goals. You're training hard for the Glass Off World Championship. Sure was. That's all it is. Sure was. But now that the game is at the right angle, it shoots great. Like I'm really – I'm super impressed with the game. It's a shame that it's leaving because in six months from now, I really want to see where this game is six months from now. Is your wife leaving with the game? That's the question. No, she's not. But I will tell you, I bought a game. I bought a game. And when I told my wife I bought a game, her first question was, is it Dune? Oh, my God. Bro, you screwed up. Oh, my God. What have I told you? How did you get your wife fully into pinball? You buy the game she asked you to buy. Yes. Oh, my God. And that's why Travis brought Princess Bride. We just had 500 men all in unison just go, no. Oh, no. So what game did you bring in? The Tree of Dune? My brother wants me to buy Dune, too. He, yes, he genuinely, yes. Well, yeah, definitely buy it because Jared wants you to, not because your wife wants you to. That'll get you far. What did I buy? What did I buy? I bought, I bought a X-Men. I bought an Uncanny X-Men LE. Reason being, Zach has been doing, obviously we're flipping out, he's been doing a lot of trade-ins. He's been doing a lot of trade-ins, and the pricing was right. The reality was I love Turtles. I love Turtles. Turtles is like my. I bet you do. Yeah, I love Turtles. My three themes, like growing up, those are the, so Tom's three themes are Rush, Rush, and Rush. So my three themes were Turtles, Batman the Animated Series, and X-Men the Animated Series. Like, I had Batman comics, I had X-Men comics. I love Turtles. All the Turtles action figures. So Turtles is Turtles, Stern's Turtles. Is it a great game? No. I think it's really fun. I think it's a really good game. I don't think it's a bad game. So I own Turtles? Will I sell Turtles? No, it's Turtles. So I felt that X-Men, because it's X-Men, at some point I would probably buy one. Just on team alone, I would probably buy one. But I told myself I'd get a pro. Well, what I've realized now is I've become a snob. And the games that I own, I want to add all the bells and whistles. I want the anti-reflective glass. I want the shaker motor. I powder-coated them. My Godzilla's powder-coated. He has morphed into you, Tom. I'm doing all those things. So everybody needs a role model in their life. And if you're looking for a role model, Tom Graff is the role model we all need. So, yes, am I an elitist now? Is that what I am? So I knew I was going to get a pro or a premium at some point, and the reality is Zach got this LE on trade, and the price was awesome. So I was like, why would I buy a premium and then spend $1,000 or $1,500 to get it when I can just do this? Zach's lowering the price of all our games Thanks Zach Wow So I got it And it's beautiful It's an amazing beautiful beautiful game And I get it now I understand It's weird how Previously when I would buy a pro or premium That had nothing in it Immediately I started thinking well I need to get Art Blades I need to get this I need to get that There is something nice about not having to do any of that It's just like yep The only thing that I'm waiting on is the topper. That is the nice thing about the LEs is just everything's there. Unless you want to get crazy mods or something. Not crazy mods, but you want to touch on the game. I have reached out to three different mod makers for particular mods to put in the game. So I'm excited to add those. We'll be streaming it next week. I forgot how much fun the game is to shoot. I love the layout. It's just the kinetic satisfaction of the game. But the other reason I got the game, and it's a gamble, is Stern's redoing the code. I mean, it's weird playing a game that I feel like has taken a step backwards. Like, we're back at, I mean, it's technically .91 code, but it feels like released code. It's back to a very basic structure. But what I will say, though, is... I think it's better than it was, honestly. Well, yeah, but there's no, I mean, there's no mini wizard modes. There's nothing. It's kind of really what's in the game. There's eight modes, three multiballs, and then this kind of hurry up, which is the future, the future hurry up. And that's all that's in the game right now. So I had a great game the other night. I got through, what was it, five modes, and I played all three multiballs, and it was kind of the first time in a while that I've played a game, and I'm like, well, now what? Like now, you know, kind of a, I can keep, there was nothing else. Like there was no long-term thing I was, I was working towards. I was kind of just, just keep doing it. But I will say what, what Mike Vinikour said on the review or the stream that, that Stern had the, what he was talking about, what they're adding is everything, everything he mentioned, I was excited for. So they're going to flesh out the modes more, give them more character. They're doing more with the future perks with, with the saving the different people. Um, each multiball is getting reworked. And then one thing he got me excited for was a combo based mode. Uh, so they're going to start tracking the number of combos you have. And the best thing I can correlate that to would be mech suit multiball on Deadpool. And that is one of my favorite. I like wizard modes that, that you're chipping away at. Elwynn does an exceptional job at that, but it's like with, If you're going to track the number of combos I have to see that, I'm like, oh, I only need eight more combos. And then I qualify mech suit multiball. And then you can just like, and it's a fun, I don't know. So there was everything that Mike Vinikour mentioned was stuff that I'm excited about. So I bought the game. Best case scenario, the code ends up being amazing. It's a theme that I absolutely love. And I got the top model for a great price. Worst case scenario, a year from now, the code's complete. It's still kind of, eh. And I sell it. Like, I don't, you know, like, I'm here to ride it out, play the game, have fun with it. And if it doesn't, if it's not amazing, I sell it. Like, what? So that's my thought. That's, there's my TED Talk, right? That's a pretty good thought. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so the question is then, to kind of circle back, what shot do you enjoy the most on Dune? I forgot to ask that. I'm still looking at the play field on my iPad, so I'm curious. Yes. Well, I will say, so a lot of times when I watch my wife play, it's almost like she forgets there's a third flipper, like there's an upper flipper, and there's a magnet that will stop the ball. So there are moments that it will stop the ball right above the third flipper. So for a novice, it, like, gives them a moment to realize, oh, I should probably use the third flipper. She can hit the ramp shot. She can hit the ramp shot from the third flipper. like there's a in the desert power or um yeah not desert power relative all there's a certain moment where oh when you defeat a harvester after you defeat the harvester it'll grab the ball it'll stop the ball right there and then you can go to the side ramp and then collect your your jackpot at the worm i've seen her do it like i didn't teach her to do it i didn't tell her to do it she just knew it like stops the ball hit the ramp because there's one light lit showing the ramp and then boom hit where the other light is lit and uh so i i would say my favorite shot though After all that, you're going to say it's not the side ramp? I enjoy the side ramp. Okay. I enjoy the side ramp. Where's this leading to, Joel? I like the right orbit. I like the right orbit, which can become a ramp. And maybe I like that because a lot of the modes, there's hurry-ups. So good question, then. And to finish it is on that shot. Which orbit is better, Joel, the right orbit on Dune or the left orbit on Evil Dead? I knew it was coming. These are great transitions. There is no left orbit on Evil Dead. You mean that lovely shot into the pops that you just can't fathom why it exists. It's a ramp, right? So on Evil Dead, you hit the left where it feels like it's in orbit. It's actually a ramp. It's a 180 ramp that feeds the ball into the pops. It's an interesting choice. It's an interesting choice of a shot. That's like our end joke right now. Did it bother me, though, on Evil Dead? No, it didn't bother me at all. Is there any shot that ever bothered you, Joel, ever? Like, I've just seen your tier list. I feel like everything is great. Have you heard of the discussion of Halloween? Yes. Oh, yeah. Right up the middle. That rejects more than it should. But I'm looking at my tier list now, and, like, Led Zeppelin, I know people hate the upper flipper shot. I loved it because I can hit it and Travis can't. But I don't know. There's any shot that rejects a lot or you really got to hit this thing. It's like way too tight of a shot. There was a lot of shots on Houdini that I did not like. Alien. Alien, the entire cryo chamber, upper left area, was essentially inaccessible because you had to, from the lower left, you had to hit a shot that would feed the middle right flipper, and then you'd have a really tough shot to get it up into the cryo chamber thing. Same thing with, like, the SIM card shot on dialed in. I mean, there's some shots like that that are just rough. Are you saying you don't like the SIM card shot on dialed in? I haven't played a ton of it, but I don't think I've ever hit it purposely. I think it's always just fallen into it. I mean, yeah. That's fair. That's like all of us not named Zoller or Escher pretty much. Or Raymond. Raymond hits that a lot. That tells you something about the shot, though, doesn't it? Well, yeah. No, but you get, like, ginormous, like, awards for doing that. I mean, yeah, it's hard to hit, but when you hit it, it actually matters. I think that's why they styled in such a fun game. They have one thing, the Big Bang thing that has Target there. I love that. That's a good Target. Yeah, I wish that would be in more games. Like, the ability to end a mode completely. Like, maybe you don't get all the points, but to get some of the points because the mode matters in the progression of the game. I like that. I wish that would be brought in more for modern pinball, but I can't think of any other game that does something like that. I was thinking maybe Dungeons and Dragons with the critical hit, but I don't think it clears everything. It just spots a shot. Spots a shot. Which I enjoyed. I enjoyed that. I'm looking at my tier list. Honestly, Harry Potter, the extra ball shot, which is purposely hard, is under the flipper shot. That is a tough shot, and the challenge is there are certain terms, There are certain modes that you have to hit that shot. Or it feels great when you hit it on Harry Potter, the shot that goes under the left ramp. It feels awesome when you hit it, but when that shot was lit for term modes, my mind was like, well, it looks like I'm timing that out. Yeah, just chop up, time it out. Yeah, it's like just ignore it. It'll change to a different shot in 30 minutes or 30 seconds. That was kind of always my thought. Oh, look at Joel thinking like a competitive player. Yeah. Oh, you do. Time that out. Yeah, he's good. Z-Max strats. Yeah, there's not – I'm trying to think of – I mean, there are definitely shots that are more satisfying than others. And, I mean, on Deadpool, every single time I hit the katana ramp, like, it feels good every time, every single time. Foo Fighters, ripping that spinner up the middle and the way it would loop around, and then you can hit the upper flipper shot, like, it feels good every time. See, I like the center spinner on Dune. And even if you don't fire the upper flipper, just that return to your right flipper, like, it's butter every single time. Like, just doing a live catch or a drop catch right there. Dune shoots very well. Geometry like that I like. So my desk is a motorized desk, and I just accidentally clicked it. So my old desk was lowering and about to take me out of the knees. But, yeah, no, it shoots great. I really, my only issue with Dune, the far right, the Fadaken multiball, that's a tough shot. I mean, it's just one that I find I ignore. It's kind of a, I mean, Harry Potter had that too. Like, honestly, I kind of, I would ignore the entire Quidditch section until I'd remember, like, oh, I need to hit this and I need to get this multiball going. So I think some games are really good at forcing you to play all of the play field at all times. But, yeah, looking at my, I mean, yeah, there are definitely, I mean, there are definitely games where you can ignore entire parts or pieces of the play field until there's a mode or a specific thing. Those are fantastic games, too. That's great experiences. Wow. I will say, like, I was playing the new Jaws code, 1.0, since Jaws 50th was announced. And I always forget when I come back to that how much there actually is to do in that game. I know a lot of people are saying, like, the code's not done, the code's not done. But, like, even before that, there was plenty to do, though, right? You had your Orca Awards. You have your, like, your Fish Finder Target. You got your Encounters. You got your Bounty Hunts. There's plenty to do. I don't know. I've been sitting on the idea of buying a game for a long time, and Jaws has always been the answer. That was the game I was going to buy. And what happened? I bought X-Men. If we look right now at my tier list, which I did this on the Flip and Out stream two weeks ago, I personally currently have X-Men ranked a B. It's a good game. Where do I have Jaws? S tier, top tier. So why in the world did I buy an X-Men over Jaws, right? That's the question. Why in the world? You're passing on an S tier game because you like the theme better, but you have the hope. I have the hope. That the rule set will come along. I have the hope that it gets that rule set up into an A-tier game. That's my hope. Oh, so you'll settle for A-tier. I mean, I have turtles ranked as a B, and I own turtles, and I'm never selling that. Okay, that's true. You're right. B is a horrible score. Oh, my gosh. Well, no. B is a good score. I just, I don't, I mean, no, I am very happy that I got X-Men. I'm excited to ride this ride and see where the code goes and to get new code updates and experience the game grow. Because I don't feel like I'm – I feel like this is a gamble that I'm not going to lose. Like, I don't feel like it's – the price is going to go down crazy amounts more. Do you feel like you've just, like, gotten the equivalent to, like, just a new inbox experience nearly since you realize that the code is, like, just revamping and just going forward with that? Yeah, it feels like a new pin to me. You know, honestly, I'm a little nervous to stream it this Wednesday because the code is, this is the challenge I get with any new pin where it's like how much code's in the game and how much can I show. Luckily, my skill level typically keeps us from showing too much. You don't have to worry about that, brother. You're not going to show the entire game. But that's where I'm at, where it's like I saw a weird glitch on the screen the other day. Like I really, truly feel like they are. If you want to find an awesome glitch, just play all the modes. Yeah. And always collect everybody in the future and then watch what happens. Okay. Well, you'd be proud of me. I said I completed five modes and I collected four out of five people. I felt pretty good about that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't think I'm going to get eight for eight, but I feel pretty good about four out of five. I mean, put a game on pinball. You could get that. Well, yeah. Yeah. Fine. Yeah. Well, okay. So Jaws, I don't know. Will I own Jaws at some point? And this was an interesting discussion that came up during the tier list when I filled this out. If you're wondering what we did, there's a website, Tier Maker, and I put a list of all 30-plus games that we've streamed on Flip N Out Pinball over the last two years. And Jared and I went through and we ranked them where we think they were. No, there was only three S-tier games. How many B-tier? B was, I mean, we had a nice bell curve. Wait, wait, wait. What were the top three S-tier games? Yeah. There were like 20. I'm not going to count. The three top S-tier games were Jaws. And the way we labeled S tier, perfect or close to it. Okay. Or close to it. So define perfect before we go. Like perfect for you is what? Well, I mean like layout. Yeah, or you feel like immersed in the theme or you just love the rule. Like what combination equals perfection? So Straight Down the Middle does reviews, and I like their format of, you know, they do shots and layout, rules and codes, display and animation, sound, lights, you know, all that. So, X tier is if Greg loves it. That's what you're saying. But they have a section there which is just the fun factor. Just the fun factor. And that weighs a lot in what Jared and I were saying. So, Jaws, do I have any complaints? Do I have any complaints about really any part of the game? Ooh, Deesky's listening. No. I don't. I don't. I don't. The only thing is, do I like X-Men more than Jaws, the theme? Yeah. Like, it's a theme. it's a little older than me but it's a great movie I appreciate the movie what it is it's just not a theme that calls to me but it's an incredible game in every way the fun factor is high I love playing that game, I get immersed in that game it's an incredible game, that's why I put it S tier do I think Jaws is better than Godzilla? I do, I do think Jaws is better than Godzilla and I have Godzilla right here why do I own Godzilla and not Jaws? because I bought it first It's powder good. It's modded out the heck out of it. Like, my kids enjoy Godzilla. It's a close, you know, 1A, 1B. You know, that's where I view Jaws and Godzilla. What's up, Travis? Tom, are you following this logic here? I just want us to back up. It's just Tom and I. It's just Tom, me, and a couple of the other fellows out there listening. So our partner in crime here loves Jaws. Yeah. And he ranks it ahead of Godzilla. Yeah. But he's not going to buy it because he has Godzilla already. But then he decides to get X-Men because the code's revamping. He got that. And then his wife loves Dune, but then he's not going to get that either. Okay. It's all theme driven. It's all part of the plan. It's all theme. You're right. Tom, you're right. It could have been three pop bumpers in the middle of the play field. That's it. And Joel would have been like, X-Men, yes. Where's my money? We just drove home. It's just about theme. That's it. It does explain. Theme is huge. Theme is huge. It's huge. It is. It is. It is. Yeah. I agree. So the third S tier game, we can just keep going as Evil Dead. You don't even have to make a comment about third S tier game as Evil Dead. But theme-wise, theme-wise, I would never own it. Back up. I would never own Evil Dead because I can't. Like, that is a theme that would not work in this household. Why? Why? Why would that be? Elvira ranked A tier. Would I ever own Elvira? No, it's a theme that I just, I'm sorry, I can't have in this house. What do you have against Elvira? I personally don't have any issues with Elvira. But there are other people in this household. Well, my autumn, autumn, my daughter. There's like a couple of assets that you're just like, I just can't have in this household. Autumn, my daughter, who's seven, she said something. Well, the question was Harry Potter. She thought Harry Potter was scary. My seven-year-old thought Harry Potter was scary because she doesn't know anything about Harry Potter. and my wife made a comment about, oh, it's like fun scary though. Like once you get to know it, the monsters, it's fun. Like it's a fun scary. I was like, yeah, like Monster Bash. Remember, Monster Bash is nothing but monsters, but it's fun scary. And Autumn goes, is Monster Bash the one with the lady on it with the low-cut shirt? You're like, yes. Yes. And I was like, and my wife started laughing. I was like, no, no, that wasn't Monster Bash. You're like, no, that's Daddy's special game. You can talk about Evil Dead. Why is Evil Dead? And why isn't Evil Dead an S-tier game, guys? Why? You both agree, clearly. I think it's a good game. It's a good game. I think it's a very good game. I think for what Spooky's done, I think that's elevated them. Definitely. I mean, I had fun playing it. I played it at shows multiple times, and I've had fun every time. I mean, there's been, like, some aspects where I'm kind of like, okay, that shot feels kind of weird. but then there's other shots where I'm like, okay, that shot feels really good. Right? And then just, like, hearing the different sounds and everything and just kind of seeing, like, everything come together with a theme. Like, I think they did very well on that. Plus the artwork. Oh, yeah. Holy shit. Like, the art is just – I really like what Franchi did with that. I know it's going to sound like we're just kissing his ass, or I am right now. We're just all better because we can't get one. That's the problem. That's the problem. It's not. Like you said, Joel, it's just like Evil Dead. I don't think that's just the thing you might want in the house kind of thing. Yeah, 100%. But I do think the game plays amazing, you know. What's the scariest game you have, Tom? Yeah. Or the one you left over. Rush is definitely, no, probably Jaws or, I don't know. Is Iron Maiden? Would Iron Maiden be scary? Yeah. Iron Maiden has, like, Keith going across the screen getting chased by something. Dracula? Dracula, yeah. Dracula is Dracula. You have a Dracula? How long have you had one? I don't remember that. A long time. I must walk past it. Put a new play field in it. Really? Is it all nice? Yeah. What's nicer, your Dracula or Harlem Globetrotters? It's pretty close. Dang. Joel, he might have the nicest Globetrotters I've ever seen. I know he's done a few play field swaps, right? so I don't doubt it. No, it's Evil Dead. The reason we said S was we said perfect or close to it. Is the layout of Evil Dead perfect? No. I mean, I can't sit here as much as I like Bug and Spooky Luke. Are there layouts as fun to shoot as any Elwynn game? No. They're not, but they're getting better. Like, I do think the left orbit ramp back into the pops is, once again, a very interesting choice. Like I said, it's probably the best shooting spooky game. I agree. I'd agree to that. And it's fun to play. I agree. That's why it really excites me. As much fun as I had with Evil Dead, I'm genuinely excited to see what the next thing is for them. The rumor is it's a more family-friendly theme, so maybe that would happen. I mean, that's where, like, Dune, I think everything we saw with Labyrinth was incredible. And I think Dune, they've stepped it up a notch. They've improved in almost every single category. Now we're just waiting on the code to be fleshed out to really, you know, be able to give it an honest ranking. Yeah, I wish there was a Dune closer for me to play. Like, right now it's Madison, which is a couple hours drive. so but yeah i you know i i played it at yeg pen but it like literally just came out then and it shot fine i mean i i enjoyed how it shot it just it just didn't seem like the code was all there like i didn't yeah believe it or not code is kind of important you know to the ability and like i've like i've said a bunch of times you know first impressions are important too True. And that's, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I assume there's always licensing, you know, situations where it's like we got to get this pin out at a certain time because of license commitments or whatever. Well, and it's crazy right now how many pins have been released this year alone and it's only July. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot. How does Predator stack up to all of these that we just listed? I don't know. Your reaction, Joel? I mean, you don't like it? You don't like the Arnold voice? I haven't even really looked at it that much, to be honest. I just haven't been that excited about it. So I've just kind of been like, eh. Yeah, it's kind of like. I'll wait until I see one and I play it. Well, the first time I saw it, I was just like, this is Whirlwind. Really? Yeah, once you see it. Well, once you see it, it looks like there's like a lot of shots that are very similar to Whirlwind. But it's a white body. doesn't mean that you can't be inspired by it. It's like whirlwind and string. Are there three spinning disks in the middle of the play field? No, no. I think there is. I think it has a fan to it. No, look at it. Once you see it, you won't be able to unsee it. But it's just like, I don't know. I've watched some of the video. The only thing that I was kind of concerned about, too, is the right orbit on there. It's not as good as the orbit on Evil Dead. like the left orbit on Evil Dead Joel, it's not as good as that one got it my view on Predator the reality is Zach's going to sell them which means I'm probably going to stream one let's go I know it's going to be you're going to have to edit out your initial reaction now you can sell that shit interpret that however you want you sound like the helicopter going That's awesome. No, the minigun. Oh, yeah, I forgot. So I'm pumped. No, the reality is, I mean, I streamed Alien, which was made by the same factory that's going to make this, and I've streamed Funhaus. Yeah, what did you rank Funhaus, Joel? Pretty dang low. Pretty dang low there, bro. Just because I know you've been involved in the product. That's harsh. I know, I was going to came up with the layout and everything I noticed like a bunch of them are for sale now after Joel put it yeah, I just killed it freaking Joel, man that's how we all need to judge from now on, anybody that wants to send hate mail to Tom and I just redirect it to Joel he directly responsible if your pen loses value it all me night Yeah TripleDinnerGmail Let Jared play more Jared will up the value Now, does Zach actually say to you, like, you know, if you rate this lower than this, I will kick you in the balls. Because I have more to say. Zach lets him go. I guarantee he does. Zach genuinely has zero. He has never filtered me once. if anything, the one thing he's asked me is like, just if you don't mind, you know, could you mention, Hey, if you want to buy a game, you know, buy it from flipping out. Like that's his one. Like, like, let me look at my notes. It's like you and Jared, just keep doing what you're doing. But if you want to mention flipping out once in a while, that would be fine. Can you imagine that Tom? Like Joel's playing. He's like, well, this shot shit. This shot shit. You can buy this from flipping out right now. Well, we joke around about that. I wouldn't personally buy this, but if you want to buy it. This game is down in the D tier. But it's available. Here's my problem with PAM. Of all the games I've owned, the game I sold the fastest because I didn't enjoy it was Pinbot. and pinball pinball is a game you just don't like the era of game is what you're saying I didn't grow up with that game I have no sentimental attachment to that game at all to me it's a brand new experience it's a brand new game pinball got here, it's got great reviews it's incredibly liked, it's incredibly respected that game was gone in under two weeks it was just it's not doing anything for me so why does it all just move it on and that's unfortunately the feeling I had with Funhaus The 2.0 code didn't really do anything for me. And the original code, I have no emotional attachment to it. So if I'm going to compare it to other games of that era, there are other games of that era I enjoy more. So it just didn't – there was nothing about that game that pulled me in. I feel a cold in the air. It's like the Grim Reaper has appeared. Right? Right? Yeah. Well, but that's the thing. We're going to have to extend out that meme, add some more room to this bad boy. People that listen to this podcast, there's a good chance that a lot of you have fond memories of Funhaus. And if you do, this remake is incredibly well made. It's a sturdy, awesome, amazingly great version of that game. There's a reason that game sold as many copies as it did. Yeah, it's a good game. I just, personally, it's not a game that I streamed it. It's a game if you play it. That's all. That's all I'm saying. I mean, shout out to Josh Roop from Loser Kid. Like, he has incredible sentimental attachment and memories to this game. He just unboxed one, and he now has, like, a deal going on where if you want to buy one for $500 out, reach out to – there's, like, a way to do that. I think it's – I don't know what it is. It's like – I don't know. Just reach out to – look at Loser Kid or watch that video, and you can see how to buy one for $500 less. But, like, this is a game that Josh loves, and he's got really good things to say about it because he was able to get a brand-new version of that game. Yeah, and one of the things that people don't realize, we had the Classic Edition at Expo. And so Larry DeMar himself, like the original software, game design, all that, he came and played the Funhouse. And he gave the best compliment that I've ever heard for, like, any pinball machine I was happy about. they said this feels like the first day that i played it at the factory i'm like bingo like that's what you're going for so yeah i mean i get it like i i've played some of the fun houses that it's like okay this doesn't quite feel like the original like i could just tell then i played others i'm just like this feels like an exact replica like it's it you know so i mean it's yeah mileage may vary full transparency like but the same thing happens even with like cactus canyon or Monster Bash. But I will say, Attack from Mars remake, nothing like the original. I think nearly 99% of people will agree with me there. That one's a little funky. I've heard. But, I mean, I don't know. I'm excited. I know there are more remakes coming down the road, and so maybe some of these older games will be allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly more remakes. I've been in the hobby long enough or gone to enough shows that I've had a chance to play some of these quote-unquote older games that I didn't play before. So I now have a baseline, and I'm excited to see what some of these alleged remakes are going to be in play. I like this game. Tom, what remake do you want to see? Like, I get it. There's probably a bunch of people out there groaning like they don't want remakes. Totally fine. But if there was, there happened to be a remake, what one would you want to see next? Any company out there? Sure, sure. We'll say any company. I haven't thought about it. I don't know. Harlem Globetrotters. No. I already have a nice one. You already got the best one. I don't know. I'd have to think about it, to be honest with you. See, I would say Frontier. I'm selling all my pins. Honestly, I would say Frontier. I got one for sale. I've told you, if you're selling it, let me know. Do you really? I'm thinking about selling it, yeah. Okay. Joel, edit that out of the podcast. Don't let anybody else hear that. Because I've been looking for a printer. I bought it during COVID, actually. I remember that. When COVID first started. And I remember the price. And I'm not going to say it out loud, but I remember. Because you and I talked about this. I'm going to give me the friend up charge. I know it's coming. It's Elwin's, like, favorite game, isn't it? He loves Frontier. I think he likes it. I don't know. Does he? Yeah. Or Skateball. Skateball. I mean, he's worn the Frontier. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's because the guy looks like him. Crickets are awesome. Joel, okay, what remake do you want to see? I mean, J-Pop is J-Pop, but at the same time, I like a lot of shots in his game. I just like the ball pass. I think the whimsical side of it is very fun. So there's a lot of rumors of whether it's Theater of Magic or Tales of the Arabian Night or Circus Voltaire. I got one, but I don't think it would ever happen. What one's that? Congo. I'll blink twice if that's possible. He's not blinking. I don't know. I can't see. No, I do agree with that. I actually feel like I would be kind of excited. I know this is like a hot take or a dumbass take. I don't know. But I would personally enjoy if certain layouts could come back and just be reskinned. reskinned. So the way Beatles was, I really enjoyed that, right? It's kind of like a take on Sea Witch with some adjustments. I wish companies would explore doing that more often at just a lower limited, you know, allocate or unit run, but something like that. I think, I think there's a market for something like that. I really do. I was having a conversation with one of my buddies, Bill, and we were playing Bond 60th at Lumberjack Johnny's in Appleton. And we were talking about, you know, like, what a fun game and layout, you know, and it's kind of a shame, like, not everybody gets to enjoy it because it was so limited. But, like, if they could do more games like that, I think that would be cool. But I think obviously not at the $20,000 price range that it came out at or whatever it was. Yeah, if it's similar to the vein of Pulp Fiction at very similar price points, I think the units move. Right. I really do believe that. I mean, it has to be the right theme, but Pulp Fiction's proven, too, that it doesn't have to be like Joel's thing, like an S-tier theme, right? Yeah, we put Pulp Fiction at an A. We put it high. Right. So it's not S-tier, like I said. It can just be A. It's perfectly fine, right? I think I said this before, like Elton John. I think if that game was a couple thousand dollars less, it would sell huge. Yeah. Is that possible under JJP's model? Yeah. I hear what you're saying. I don't know. Because maybe we could say the same thing about like. I mean, look, they did a 10K Harry Potter. Yeah, that's fair. In words of Joel, that's fair. Tom Graff, like coming in with facts, like changed my mind immediately. There you go. What did that pest guy spray in that room? You're wide awake and going, yeah. I think it was a lady, Joel. Oh, I'm sorry. I just saw, like, blurs in the background. I did not. My bad. She did report about my pinball collection, by the way. Hey. Nice. For the record, we are giving Joel shit over his tears. But, again, everybody have your tears the way you want. Enjoy pinball the way you want, unless you're Joel. Then we can all give him shit. Right. Everybody else is perfectly fine. If you want to think everything is S tier, go for it. There's three S tier. I would say if you think everything is S tier, that is probably an excellent mindset and place to be. Like, think about how much fun that person is probably having playing pinball. That's true. Right? Yeah, that's the person that will take 20 bucks to the arcade, get a couple of beers, and they are like in hog heaven. Yeah, can you imagine that? We've got to find this person in TPL. Gordon Ramsey. He's like, this is shit. So always find one fun thing on each pin. That's the rule. Oh, yeah. Every time. You can find it. It's there. And you'll laugh your ass off when you figure it out. Like, we figured it out on Police Force, right? Yeah. That game didn't even become fun until Eric Thorne at DA2 just bastardized it. And then you're like, well, this isn't very fun. But then you just laugh at the absurdity of it, and you just try for it anyways. Right? True. When Bowden hit, like, I think he downsized it a little bit, but then when Bowden hit, like, the eight ramps in a row. Yeah, the right ramp. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's, like, that's fun. Right? It's so stupid. It's such a stupid rule, I think, to have something like that. But, yeah, it's so hilarious that I'm, like, I'm cheering. I'm all for it. So, like, find the fun thing in pens. We get called, Jared and I, we get called chills all the time. And, you know, hey, not every pinball machine can be fun. Not every pinball machine can be the greatest ever. And it's like, we don't say every pinball machine is the greatest ever. No, no. It's my brother and I. Actually, I think Jared probably really honest. Oh, he has no hesitation to share it. It's just like, it's just fun. We're just, it's my brother and I hanging out playing a game. Like, we're going to have a good time. Now, are there pinball machines that I streamed it once? And I'm like, I don't want to stream it again. Like, one night's good enough for me. Or we stream it two, three weeks. and you know what, that's good enough. Like I'd all gladly walk by that in an arcade. I don't have to play it again. That's fine. But are we going to make sure, like are we going to have fun for two hours? Yes, we're going to have fun for two hours. And it was cool seeing people post their version of the tier list because, you know, we had GTF in the D tier and we had Houdini. So like there's somebody who has Houdini as an A-pin and felt the need to tell us why. Good for you. Same thing with Godfather. We had Godfather at a C, which is just fine. And there's some people that swear Godfather is potentially even JJP's top game. I mean, so it's – and that's fine. That's fine that people can have different – that's what's cool about pinball, right, that everybody can enjoy what they enjoy. What was I going to say? I was – oh, a fun random thought. So with Dune, honestly, one of my favorite parts of Dune is the pain box. The pain box, which is a – it's a left out lane ball save. but you have to put your hand on the button. You have to hold it down. So you have to play the game with one hand, and you have to hit the left ram. And it's so simple, but it's awesome. I'm so glad it's not a mode. I'm so glad it's a, like, I already lost the ball. I deserve to fail. But if I can do this, what an awesome way to come back. And Jared and I have had so much, like, it's something where normally when you drain, you're upset. when I drain and it's the left out lane on ball two or ball three, I'm pumped. It's like, here we go. Time for the paint box. And I've done it twice. Jared's now done it twice. And it's awesome. Like, what a fun moment. That shouldn't be a moment, but what a fun moment in a game. I wonder if Kingpin could get me a Dune to stream. I don't know. Hopefully you can stream one. It's fun. It is a fun game. But honestly, if you can stream one, I wish you could stream it like a month or two. Because you're a good enough – like Carl, he's been streaming it. He can just blow through it. I mean, what's there already? He can just – I mean, that's where Carl is. I'm not Carl, though. Most of us are. Not many people are. What else? Well, the reason I brought up Dune, and maybe it's just a real short conversation, was just inserts and communicating – light show and communicating what's in that balance. because I'm all for light show, but I do think some of the modern games now, it's almost like you're doing too much that now it's really hard to understand what you're doing or what you're trying to do. And then you got some older games where it's just like, yeah, everything's off except for the one shot you have to hit. I mean, I don't know. Do you guys have any strong opinions on, like, games that you feel the inserts are way too much or it's – I mean, a prime example in my opinion is Guns N' Roses. I think Guns N' Roses is a blast to play. But when you're in a song mode, the priority is just this absurd light show, which it amps you up. It feels good. But, man, is it hard to know what you're trying to do or what you're trying to hit. And that's where it's like, I get it, you're giving me a moment because I'm rocking out to this song. But I think for a second here, you've put pinball second. You've put light show and music and immersion as number one. You've been playing an actual game and trying to work through a mode as number two. And that's tough. Yeah, I think it just depends, right? When I think of light shows, I like it to lead me in the direction that I'm supposed to go with the game. But then I do like it when games have certain immersive qualities to it, to show like some type of light show that tends to suck me into the theme a little bit as well. I don't mind that. So if there's like a switch frenzy mode or something like that, like then, yeah, just go hog wild on it. Like if I hit a jackpot and I'm still like having to ramp out on something, but yet the lights are just going crazy. Like, yeah, I mean, it just kind of is what it is at that point. It's just it's really hard to just differentiate what is the proper lighting and when, because we're all going to have different experiences, even in the same mode. Right. We might approach it a different way, or as soon as you brick a shot, you may not stay in the same flow state or however it could be. So, I mean, I think it's just kind of tough to make sure that something doesn't go over something else, right? Because I imagine just in the production of a game, that probably happens all the time, and that's incredibly hard to keep up with. Yeah, I know. Well, Dune, you're in a desert. Like, if that thing would have been looking like a carnival and crazy light shows, it makes no sense. So, pardon me, maybe it's just theme, but the fact that, like, they've added atmospheric lighting with the HAL system, but then the inserts are just there to communicate what's lit or what's not. Like, it's super simple. If you can play Dune, yeah, if you can play Dune in a, like, in a non-pinball hall, right, if you have it in a room, you turn the lights down and you can pick up the sound, yeah, It is a really fun experience. That's what I'd highly recommend everybody seek out. That's an amazing experience. It's really hard to stream it because I know I've watched back to my streams. I'm not communicating the light show. There's no way you can. But then the cameras can't see the ball, or you have it where the cameras can actually see what you're doing, but then you lose that atmospheric lighting. So it's really tough. And, yes, if anybody ever has the opportunity to play a dune in a home environment with the lights off. It's an amazing experience. I was also going to say, like, Evil Dead, they have some light shows where, like, the whole playfield's red because, you know, you're hacking up a body or something. Like, you can do immersive things, but... Yeah, that's fine. But trying to find that balance is challenging. I am surprised... What is it? Star Trek Premium or LE? And then I know Guardians of the Galaxy are two of the only games that all the inserts on the game are RGB lights. like I'm surprised that hasn't become a standard for a Stern game. Maybe spike three will make that standard. That's become pretty standard. Like I'm pretty sure all JGP games are all RGB lights. All spooky games now are all RGB lights. I'm surprised that isn't a standard yet with a Stern. Cause you would assume that would simplify things, right? Cause all their inserts can be clear and all their, I don't know. I just like the fact that Stern has three different color GI. so X-Men has their white, blue, and red bulbs all across the play field. You would think with some sort of RGB GI light, you could just get away with one and be able to communicate what you're trying to do. So I'm a big fan of lighting, but it wasn't until my wife really pointed out how much she enjoyed the simplicity of the light show of Dune did it make me pause and think, oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's something to that, and we talk about that all the time. There's elegance and simplicity. And I think especially if you're dealing with this type of experience of what pinball is, I think it's okay to have some stuff simplified, right? Because you look at old school pins in the 80s, 90s. Do you guys hear my dog? Is that you? That's what I was going to say. I thought it was Billy and CJ upstairs. He's with his toys. CJ. He's like T-Rexing all above me and all that. Oh, my God. I'm trying to be thoughtful about pinball here, and he's just, like, shitting all over it. Probably all over my living room floor, apparently. Those toys are all us here in his book. Right. Exactly. But I think Dune is a great example of this because it thematically makes sense, and it makes sense to the player. Now, I think on the other side of this, Guns N' Roses, or whatever the rule set was on that, I think still the light show on that makes perfect sense for the theme. Like, I'm perfectly fine with that. Go hog wild, crank it up, have the lights go, and have a concert and a box experience. Like, totally cool. I think stuff like that can be had. It's just, like, some of the games, I can't think of them off the top of my head, but some of them, it's just like you play games and you're like, yeah, this light show's not really mixing with what I expect, right? So, like, Star Wars, I love, I personally love the light show on Star Wars. Like when you destroy the Death Star, how everything just goes. Like I feel like that's a pretty good experience, right? And I feel like we get a similar light show to Godzilla whenever you get like a super jackpot or you're in like Jet Fighters or something like that. You can see it's the song changes, the music changes, the pitch changes, and you see the red lights, you know, going across. So you know what you're supposed to be doing. So stuff like that. That's how I like to be led, right, to know what the future is going. Godfather. Godfather is a game that I remember there was a lot of internet communication or talk of, like, why is this game a rainbow? It's Godfather. You know, Godfather is a more serious, toned-down game, but yet they brought in these super colorful light shows that it felt thematically a little off. I know Avatar's light show was great. I enjoyed the light show there. I think it made sense. And I'm not trying to pick on JJP. It's just they have the most lights in their games. Yeah, I mean, that's part of their value prop right there. So, yeah. Elton John was great. I mean, but it's Elton John. It's high-energy music pin. And you brought up a good point. GNR playing a sound mode, when I was playing a song mode, I just wanted to survive because I just wanted to keep rocking out, enjoy that song. I wasn't worried about the scoring at all. So to keep playing those modes because you can get kicked out, to keep playing the modes, though, you do have to hit a certain number of shots and then hit the scoot. Like, you've got to keep progressing or else you get kicked out of the song mode, right? So it's like that was the only – but, yeah, you're right. The song modes themselves, the light shows should be – you should be rocking out. That's the point. Yeah. There's some interesting ones. Like, I can think of off the top of my head Ghostbusters is one to where I feel like the lights on there are really lackluster until you get, like, a super jackpot or something like that. then it like really picks up. So there's like different versions of that to where it kind of lags behind a little bit, but then it really picks up at the parts that it needs to pick up that. I was thinking of Metallica with when you start sparking multiball. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Frickin awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, um, that's a great example actually. Yeah. Whenever you start a feature, it really prioritizes that feature and shows it off. Yeah. Did you get a remake of Metallica Tom or you still talk original? You got the remake? Yeah. The remastered Joel. That's so good. That was right there. That's in my top five of games that I would own is A's easily. Oh, yeah. Does that make it a B tier or an A tier? No, I have an A. I have an A. Okay. I could argue as to. Not as to. It's so good. Oh, this is a good one. Raymond. Raymond. I'll go ahead and ask him the question. That's why it's not. Why is it? Is it because of Ray? Yeah. Because he added on all the additional modes that are super fun to play. It's his fault. No, if it would have been Geeseke that added all the exact same modes, it would be S tier. Oh. Raymond Davidson? No. Well, we know who's getting the cold shoulder next time we see Raymond. No. Yeah. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Ray watches my streams every once in a while, and typically when he comments, it's to point out something wrong or something that we have missed. That's good. Ray's fantastic. Honestly, S tier, the way we did the tier list is we even, within ranking, we left out to right is the farthest left one is the highest. So we have Metallica at the highest range. Metallica Remastered is fantastic. It's so good. If you're listening and you haven't had a chance to play it yet, go find it. It's, yeah. The rules are, like, excellent, plus the adjustments they made. Like, obviously the games last a lot longer, but I really like how they have the outline ball save attached to the grave marker targets. I think something like that is pretty smart. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Do you think Metallica is the best band pin? No. Don't say that. I know, Tom. Wow, lob up another softball, Joel. I know, Tom. But if you had to take your emotional attachment out of, if you're just looking at it purely based on a pinball machine, do you think Metallica is the best music pin? Which one, the original or the remastered? Let's go with Randy's version. What are we judging this off of? Like the whole package? Fun? Like the actual music? Yeah, let's do the whole package. The whole thing. The whole thing. Do you think there's a better music pinball? Maybe the criteria should be, you know, hey, you have a new friend who's a music lover and he wants a pinball machine, but he wants a band. He wants a music. That's tough because, like, Iron Maiden, for instance, like, I love the pin. band. I like one song. Like Run to the Hills. That's the only thing I really like from their albums. But the pen is super fun. I own one. I play it all the time. Aren't you about to sell it? Yeah, I'm going to and I've owned it like two or three times. But I have access to it at work all the time. I see them all. Which one's better, Tom? Iron Maiden or Metallica? That's tough. I mean, I would, like, if I had a gun to my head and was like, choose, I'd probably pick Iron Maiden. Ooh. See, I'm looking at my tier list here. I think. We had Metallica higher. I might have to put Rush slightly ahead of Metallica. What? Like, slightly. What? Slightly. You like that washing machine that much? I'm a time machine, you son of a. So, okay, well, let me back up here. Let me back up. Before the rules got changed around, I really enjoyed Rush, but after, like, some of it got changed, I might put my – yeah, I forgot about that. I haven't played it in a while. All right. Audience interaction. Audience participation. If you follow us on Facebook, Triple Train, we will post a link to this podcast, obviously, when it gets – comment. What is the best music pin? Don't overthink it. Just what do you think is the best music pin? Okay, if you say Foo Fighters. Music pin. Foo Fighters is a great game. Foo Fighters, yeah. I love Foo Fighters. I mean, if I look at my tier list here, in the A tier, music pins, I only had two. I had Metallica and I had Elton John. Those are my two music pins. I would say Foo Fighters, the rule set on Foo Fighters is a lot of fun. It is. A lot of fun. Oh, you're right. Tanya crushed it on Foo Fighters. So Tanya really, he carried that team. We know. Why is this going on here? Joel is just trying to suck up to everybody now. He's going to forget who he is. Tanya doesn't listen. I just know Ray listens. Joel is forgetting what's your third employee he should get on this podcast. He's trying to get back in their good graces again. When I interviewed George Gomez, I asked him, I said, who's your worst employee and why is it Raymond Davidson? I asked him that question. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. What else we got? Oh, Jaws 50th. Jaws 50th came out. So, Tom, as an LE owner, how pissed are you, right? I mean, isn't that what all these extra additions, don't they just make you so mad? I was pissed at first until I saw the cabinet artwork, and then I was like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. It can be read. It's good. A little piss that, like, they did the glow on the play field, like the glitter. Oh, the glitter. The glitter. Just a little piss. A little piss. A little piss. You like your jaws with a little glitter? Just a little piss. Just a little piss. And then the brass wire arms. A lot of piss. A lot of piss. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. The piss is increasing. Yeah. Yeah. What the hell, Stern? that's like that little dribble of piss that you get I'd get a little bit on your underwear by accident if I was a premium owner I'd be really pissed oh yeah you're getting powder coat powder coat Yep. Added glitter to your play field and brass wire forms for the same price. Travis, did you have, maybe you can't share this, but at the pinball company, did you have any Jaws premium people that had one on order or that then changed their order to a Jaws 50th? Yeah. Or anybody that was upset about that? Son of a bitch. So, full transparency, we had people switch back and forth both directions. We had some that were holding out for the Sea of the Jaws 50th, and they just decided to get the regular premium. We had some that were in on a premium and decided to go the 50th. I mean, people are going to like games the way they are. What I'm interested in is the fact that they saw these things, and they decided, even though it's add-ons, they were just like, no, I'm good. I'm just going to stick with this. I found that interesting. I was kind of surprised how many decided that. But, you know, it is what it is. It was the hologram sticker. Yeah, I think they're just the ones that they don't piss themselves and it's fine. They're all good with it. I think that's the weirdest thing. Like, why not incorporate that into the translate, that it's the 50th and not just the sticker. Stop right now, Tom Graff. We do not need common sense right now. No. Okay. But I do agree. Like, I think that would be an interesting take. I mean, what do you think about the artwork on it? I don't. That was. You said the same thing. I'm still torn by it. I'm very torn. I don't know who it was, but they posted, like, they posted the blue armor. Like, this is my LA with the white armor. It's sexy. And then, but the blue actually looked kind of better to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah Didn one of the armor products on Jaws that has like a bite out of it Yes that the only one right here Okay but they don have a bite out of the 50th right No, the powder coating was the surprise, right? Because you have Jurassic Park 30th right behind you, Travis. That's not powder coated, right? It is, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I paid $25,000 for this. It better be powder coated. Oh, this is the version that pissed people off. Yeah, this is the ultra-pissed. Oh, everybody pissed themselves over this thing. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was 25 dollars. Yeah, I forget. That's the big boy version. Right, because I'm about to put it on sale. So remember, everybody, I bought it for 25. Wink, wink. Yep, yep. You're getting a great deal. It was not the Tom Tobias Frontier, right? That was the... Tom would be like, even trade, Travis. Tom, what was that? I'm trying to remember. Tom, do you have an LE Jurassic Park? What was your Jurassic Park? I originally had a pro, and then I upgraded to the premium. So you weren't in it. Okay, so there was no piss factor in the Jurassic Park 30s. This one was interesting, though, because I had some original LE owners that were just, like, really upset. Like, downright angry. So much piss. Like, so much it's like their porta potty got tipped over. Isn't that why they're not doing LEs anymore? I mean, because of that game. Hey, Stern Pinball, Tom and Joel are talking about that, not me. I'm not answering that question. Part of the problem. You shouldn't have bought it. You should have put your foot down and thought of the LE buyers, Travis. But instead, I joined them. I'm an LE owner too. But, okay, so I know Elvira dabbled with this years ago with the five different versions they have. I know Batman 66, there's a Catwoman version, but that's just another art package of a premium. Then Jurassic Park 30th comes out. It's a limited edition. Oh, boy, was that a thing. But then Stern heard that, and they said, we're not going to do any more exclusive limited editions anymore. I mean, I will say, I don't blame, if you look on Pinside and you see the historical prices of the Jurassic Park LE, the original, you kind of start understanding why those owners got mad. So I get it. I fully get it. But it has brought it now that Godzilla, Godzilla has the black and white, the 70th edition. And that one was, it's such a drastically different art package that as a Godzilla premium owner, was I pissed when that was released? No. And the reason being is if I wasn't an owner and I was going to buy a Godzilla right then, I personally would have gone with the colored version because I just, I think that is the better, the more, the visually the better, the better version. So I wasn't pissed at all. But Jaws, I, here I am on the fence, you know, right, thinking I'm about to buy one. I was in the camp of let me hold out. I went into the Jaws 50th reveal day thinking that I had not bought X-Men yet. I was going into that reveal day saying, depending on what this game looks like, I might be pulling the trigger on this. This could be in your driveway. This could happen today. And then it was revealed. And I like the glitter. I like the brass. I did not like the red trim. And the art was pretty bland. To me, it wasn't. I've mentioned before, this is a theme that's a little dated for me, so I don't have a sentimental attachment to the original poster or anything like that. So to me, it was like, this is not what I'd buy. So I am one of those people that if I personally was going to buy a Jaws tomorrow, I would buy the original edition. And I said that on our tiered list stream, and people were like, that's insane. You're spending the same amount of money for less. You're getting a game that's not powder-coated. You're getting a game without brass. But my view is the best-looking version of the game that I can afford right now is a standard premium where you powder-coat everything white and you replace the Translite with the Pro Translite. That's the version of the game that I think is the best game that's affordable. I mean, the reality is the best version of the game is the LE, but Tom already has it, and he's not going to sell it for $9,000. I think it's definitely an interesting discussion because we've talked about this before in previous weeks, before the 50th came out, when I was asking you guys, like, what's the one thing that you could drop off an LE that you just, you literally don't care about? Like, it doesn't need to be on there, and then what's the one thing that you absolutely need on it, right? So it's kind of like, I'm always interested to find out from people what that one thing is or even like the three top things they absolutely need on an LE or to feel like an LE and what's the bottom three things that if it wasn't even on there, they wouldn't even notice because they just wouldn't even care. Well, I think that's interesting for a lot of companies to take a look at because I think it's like the jaw situation like that is. It kind of gives you, you know, a little insight on just people's opinions and kind of their what they're going about. right? Well, two parts to that. One, being that I'm now an LE owner, I can express what I think an LE pinball owner needs. So the first thing I did after I unboxed the new game- You got to own an LE for five years to have an opinion, Joel. That's what it is, I think, right? Well, the first thing I did after I unboxed the game is I found my certificate signed by Seth Davis and Gary Stern. I went and got it professionally framed, and now that's hanging in my office so that it will be on all my work calls. Because that's the reason we all get an L.A. right. Did you really do that? Heck no. It's still in the cap. No, I don't. That piece of paper means nothing. I was like, if I believe anybody on this, it's Joel. I bet he did that. That piece of paper means nothing. I don't have the certificate. Honestly, the biggest thing to me is the mirrored backup class. That thing is just because you can't buy it. And on X-Men, they have the foil side art, which is really nice. Pretty sick. It's really nice. Pretty sick. They did the same thing with Kong. The foil side art and the foil art blades. I mean, it's a beautiful game. I have zero complaints. Because, I mean, the truth is the art itself, I like the art package of the premium X-Men game better, just because I'm a Gambit fan and there's Gambit big and bold. What about HD glass? What about that? Well, you can buy that yourself. that's whatever, $200. You can buy it from many different companies and you just put it in. What about shaker motor? It's $100. You buy one, you put it in. What about powder coating? Powder coating, $200. You can do it locally. It's a pain, but you can do it. So are you saying like these three things aren't drivers for you? I know. Really? Interesting. I mean, I just said at the beginning though, it is nice having a game where all that's already done. It's just work I don't have to do. Right. That's why I do it. That, to me, though, is I would. Oh, you forgot the speaker lights. Speaker lights? We were going to get there. That's 100, what is it, 200 bucks? 200 bucks. But that, to me, it's like all of that I could buy a premium and do everything you just listed. The one thing I can't do is the mirrored back glass. Or the foil cider. Yeah, it's true. Like, we talked about this before, too. I think we talked about it with Wick when it first came out. But I'm always interested to hear, like, what's the one thing missing from any, like, top model from any company that you feel like would actually move the needle a little bit in the direction to get somebody to want to buy it? Like, for me, I always wonder if adding on, like, all the translights from all models, like, just to give that option or, you know, we've already talked about the signing of the translight. But I'm trying to think of something else that could possibly be done. I'm always curious about it. That's an interesting thought. You're saying so it just ships with the other two Translites. I think they did that with Star Wars. I could have swore that they did. Yeah, there was two. I think one of the LEs in the past has turned. I forget the exact one. I think there were two Translites. One was more like a villain, like Darth Vader Translite, and the other one was a Luke and Leia Translite. Possibly. I might be getting that wrong, but I think one of them did. I will say apparently there's some guy over in Europe that does mirrored back glasses, and I've thought about paying the money to get my Godzilla back glass to become the air. What about one of those dust mats, if they had a licensed dust mat that comes with it? Don't care. What about a foot mat? No. So that way your wife is happy playing the game for like an hour at a time. X-Men shoes. I mean, I don't love the idea of a unique statue. What about a statue that comes with it? Remember? Well, no, seriously. I remember Deadpool like a slag bag. I remember Deadpool on some of them, on some of the pros that came with a katana. Like, they ran that. That was pretty cool. Yeah. That was pretty cool. But it ends up being, I mean, that's, I don't know. I mean. Sideshow toys exist for a reason. People love statues and all that. Not every day. I like, I mean, I do like the brass wire forms in Jaws 50th. That's something where if the LEs now have unique wire forms, whether they're powder coated or brass. Sure. I don't know. It's stuff like that, but I do know, yes, you could theoretically go, um, the Ellie, uh, rails are different than the rails that you can buy. What if Stern sold those wire forms? Um, well maybe, maybe it's worth just hanging out and watching. I think pinball life gets, gets replacement parts. Maybe you could pay and replace all your wire forms on your jaws with brass versions. Maybe. I don't know the one thing. I don't know the one thing. Unless, maybe, like, What about a secret mode? What about a mode that's only for the LE? I don't like that. It's not a topper mode. It's like, because that's what they did with Tron, with one of the multiple balls. I don't like that. Why not? Because I doubt I'm going to ever buy it. I bought this LE because it came in on trade, and the price of this game, unfortunately, has dropped into the range that I can buy it. Right, but I'm saying, in theory, as a buyer. Like if you had a whole extra mode that you could play, like maybe not during the game, maybe it's like one of those special challenge modes that you can activate. I don't personally have anything wrong with that. I think that would be interesting. We've done the math before, right? So the price difference, what is it? It's roughly on a CERN. It's between a premium and an LE is it's like, what, three grand, 2,500 bucks, somewhere around there. Yeah, somewhere. So we've already done the math. You know, everything you listed, it's like if you're going to powder coat it yourself, add art blades, add this, add this, add this, add this. You know, there may be $1,000 worth of extra stuff that you're doing to get it to that physical point. So now you're talking about what's the $1,500 left that needs to justify that. Sometimes, too, when I think of, like, LEs, and Tom could probably talk to this because he has a ton of LEs, which is awesome. But it's like, does what comes with the product, does it have to be something that's actually inside the product? Like, why can't it be some type of additional add-on to just the overall vibe of everything, such as, like, a statue, such as, like. Didn't Donald have a jacket? Yeah, give somebody a jacket. Like, give somebody a freaking shark suit with the. Maybe a special topper. Special topper, I can see. I mean, that was supposed to be with the 60th, and then it was like, oh, that's the topper for everybody. But it came with the topper. You're talking about James Bond? Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting wording. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I would say I could see that because I do think that is a challenge for a Stern game when you have a universal topper. That topper from a color standpoint or art standpoint may visually look a little better on one model compared to another. So if there was a unique LE topper, would you be cool? I mean, look at Jersey Jack. They have on their – Oh, for the CE, yeah. Yeah. Well, on the CE and the Wizard. The Wizard has its own topper. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's plastic, but it's a topper. Toppers are an interesting thing in pinball nowadays. It seems like some toppers just nobody even cares about, even if it's with it. And then other toppers, like the Evil Dead one, it's like the greatest thing you can slice bread. And that is a cool topper. I mean, I bought this Cactus Canyon is the SE Plus. It's the standard edition in every way, but I paid extra because that topper is that cool. So I get it. Hey, once again, email us at TripleDragonGmail.com or comment on the Facebook page. With all your complaints. Tell us. But I think it's a valid question, Travis. What do you need? If you're not an LE buyer, you're a premium person, what would you need to push it up? What would you need to justify it? What gets your attention? Yeah, it's not even like what gets you to buy. I'm always curious to see what gets somebody's attention. Because it's like once you have their attention, and that's kind of like something that's with the theme, like no matter what you're doing, then eventually if you get a theme that hits home with somebody, you kind of got them closer to wanting to move up that tier. But it's all dependent. I mean, there's some games that I wanted to get the LD on no matter why. Like Avengers, because I was a huge Marvel fan, I wanted to get the LD. I had to have that. But then there was other games I got, like, I wanted to get Stranger Things for a little while. Didn't need the premium, didn't need the LE. I thought the Pro played just fine. Did that. Same with Guardians. So I think it's just, you know, just depends how you want to go about it. Yeah. Well, I remember, well, this is an LE, but I remember me trying to justify when I bought a Guardians, the difference between a Guardians Pro and a Guardians Premium, one of the big differences, the premium had all the LED, all the LEDs in the game were RGB. Like I remember thinking that was. Remember the arms? I remember the arms, yeah. But that could be an interesting thing where if light show wise or something, if every LED had all RGB LEDs, but the premiums and pros don't, or because you could still do it, it's just more light show or whether or not, you know, expression lights were if expression lights were in every le regardless of it being a band pin you know that would be a tough thing to not want um because of the immersion that they add but i don't know it's a valid question so comment um i did i did i did just get a text from my my my lovely wife and it says uh you almost done yet it's been almost two hours It's time to play dude. That's probably what it is. Well, what I want to give you guys, I want to give you guys a few minutes because, believe it or not, we used to talk about tournaments every once in a while, and we really haven't. And we had a guy comment. He sent us an email, and he said, you should talk about tournaments more. So I'm just going to give you guys the floor for a few minutes because I know you guys used to travel a lot more for tournaments. And it seems like you guys, yeah. Tom still does. Tom still does. I know Travis doesn't as much. So I know you guys are doing more local stuff. I know, what was it, the, what's the abbreviation? But the internationals just happened, like over. Yep, the internationals. That's right. The international. The IFPA World. World Championship number 20. Yeah, yeah. And I was invited. I don't know why. Neither was I. It just happened. It just happened. So I don't know. I mean, I feel like I should probably give you guys a little more time or a little bit of the floor. But tournaments, what's going on in the tournament world? That's the only prompt I got. I'm going to let you guys take it from there. Wow. I was unprepared for this because I didn't think Lisa was eyes. He waited until like 1.45 into the podcast. Let's talk about tournaments, guys. I will say that I am going to be going to Pinburgh in a couple weeks. So I'm going to be streaming that. And then I will be at the Beast, which is a Stern Pro Circuit event in Buffalo, which I'll also be streaming the following weekend. And then I get like a little time off of streaming, and then I'll be at Papa World Championship number 22. So Papa 22, that'll be in Chicago. So, yeah, that's going to be awesome. Where's Pinberg at? Pembroke is in Pittsburgh area. How long of a drive is that? That's a long drive. It's like 10 hours for me. Same with Buffalo. And then are you staying in the area before you go to Buffalo? Well, I'm not driving back. I hope not, yeah. No, I am driving back in between because my son has to work. I like how he makes the joke that he's like, no, I'm driving back. No, I meant like every night, you know. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Okay. No, but yeah, I am coming home for like a day or two and then driving back. Okay. And then I will collapse after two events. Well, we've been doing this podcast on episode 66, which is kind of nuts. But we. What about your thing, Travis, though? You got an event coming up a couple months. Oh, yeah. Slap C. That's in October. Yeah. It's the Pinball Championship. That's like three months away. Yeah. Tom Graff's going to be here streaming that also. Yes, Joel. He's going to be at our warehouse. Should we include Joel in some of these tournaments? When is this? We published it. When is this? It's the first weekend of October, I believe. I'm not the TV, but I think that's when it is. And it is a herb. So it's a pump and dump. That could be a lot of fun. Not card, because it seems like everybody's doing card all of a sudden. It's not that. It's just herb. Pumping up. October's tough. Wedding anniversary plus Chicago Pinball Expo. Joel's never hanging out with his mom, ever. Hey, guys, if I don't mess this up with the wife playing, if I keep this going, I will not buy you a dune if I can't go to the... Okay, wait. I got to put this out here. Do you think we can convince Josh to let you enter the tournament expo with coaching? He said it. I heard it. I remember him saying it. But the thing was, that was two years ago, though. You've gotten a little bit better since then. True. Yeah. And, you know, based on my tutorials, I should probably be the one coaching, right? I mean, is that kind of easy? We'll let you coach Josh. How's that? Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty, yeah. Josh, we're really coaching you. You're like a corner, Joel. You put Stone a few years ago, right, in the booth? I feel like I taught him something. Was Stone and Byers in the booth with you the same time? Those guys know score. I can tell you how modes work. No, I know, I know. No, that could be a lot of fun. But what I was saying was I just feel like we've done this podcast long enough that, you know, back in the COVID time, like, there was just all of a sudden it's just mad. It just seemed like it was just tournament, tournament, tournament, tournament. Like, there was so much we were covering. You guys were bouncing all over the place. And I feel like that's calmed down a tiny bit. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe I'm totally wrong. It's somewhat. We can blame Josh for that. They changed the Whopper system. That's right. He did that specifically to piss off Tom. I think so. He did cut my workload down a little bit. He killed it, right? He killed Turn the Timber. I think that's what people say. He's killed Turn the Timber. He's killed it. That's what we won't talk about anymore. It's because Josh killed it, right? That's word on the street. It's probably because he's been working on Cactus Canyon, trying to get through your little thing there. Just put the freaking kids together, Josh. God, just put them in a box and ship them out. I mean, what more do we – because clearly it's Josh. His fingers hurt, guys. Josh is just there with like a little mallet, and it's probably his legs are probably dangling on his chair, just going back and forth. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yep, yep. In between crunchy doors. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I got to get to those. It was probably a cuss word every other sentence or every other word. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't know if he's really done anything for those remakes. Right? I mean, he's pretty good at answering inside and telling people. Great. Thanks, Joel. Now we're going to get a full paragraph. Josh, can you justify what you've done? Can you give us five bullet points for what you do? Please. This is your yearly review. Tell me what you've done. What have you done that has benefited the pinball hobby in any way besides answering Pinside, telling them it's coming, and being sarcastic? That is fantastic, though. That's like my favorite Pinside thread to read right there. He doesn't care. He's snarkiness, man. There's just no chill. It's awesome. Yep, yep, yep. All right. Well, this was fun. We had very little direction. Yeah, your wife needs to play Dune. I think it's time. Yeah, she needs to get out of there. I can't play the game. Yeah. Let's plug it up. Let's start with Tom. All right. When you don't see me here, you can find me at Fox Cities Pinball on Twitch, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Silver Ball Swag. Check out all this stuff on Silver Ball Swag. Shout out to Retro Ralph, who had a picture of him in a Fox Cities t-shirt the other day, which is kind of sick. I present. Travis, do you have any fans of anything that you do out in the wild? No, I mean, there's somebody that came by the warehouse. He does some decent tutorials. Don't worry about that. You guys can find me here on Triple Drain Pinball Podcast and probably on Joel's or Tom's couch after Monica does this podcast. So if I'm listening or on a milk carton, you know who the prime suspect is. But you'll have a heated blanket, you know, all to yourself. Probably not. There ain't no way in hell she's going to let me leave with that heated blanket. He'll come here with his comfy on, and that's all he's got. Travis, can you at least wear something under the comfy when you sit at our house? Any article of clothing? Maybe. I'll try. Didn't you fart with that thing on, and it, like, almost killed you, the comfy? By accident? That was like an old man fart. That wasn't my fault. Okay, for the record. Okay, wait. We're about to wrap this up. You've gone on the attack. When you get beyond, like, 38 years old, sometimes you've got a fart, and you don't realize it, and it sneaks out. Well, this one happened to be not quite a sharp, but not quite like a mini fart. It was just enough to where it was hot, and the heat rose, and I barely moved. I was like, oh, my. I nearly knocked myself out. Joel is making this show so NC-17. I mean, if it's not him getting his balls snapped, let's talk about that. We haven't talked about that in a long time. We haven't. How are your bits doing? The mastectomy's great, you know. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Once you get through it, the procedure's strange. The recovery kind of sucks. Once you're through it, that's great. Any scars? Nah. Nah. It's not going to kill my modeling career. I'll be all right. How old were you when you got that? What was your age? I was 37, 36. How old are you now? I'm 37 now. I don't remember when I got it. It was the beginning of the year. I'm 41. The company incident was when I was 38. So when you're 38, that's when the farts start. That's when they just start leaking out. 41, I'm thinking about the snip. We figured it out. this is the time. That's why Monica doesn't share a blanket with you. She doesn't want the Dutch oven. That's what it is. It all makes sense. It's smart is what it is. I'm on Team Monica. What's the next milestone for guys in their 40s? Is it around 45? Just breathing. Honestly, I feel like there's another medical thing I'm supposed to do. And somebody probably already knows what popular is. Yeah. Prostate check, bro. Yes. Is that what I'm supposed to do? What age are you supposed to do that? Which one? Whatever you are. Are they not the same thing? The colonoscopy? No, they're definitely different. Usually you have your prostate exam at your physicals. Okay. And they're very rememberable. Oh, that's the one with, like, where they put the glove on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's the one I was talking about. Bend over on your elbows. And you've got to cough. You have to cough? That's not, I don't, that's not a, I'm not at the age of that being a thing. Are you like out of commission for the rest of the day when that happens? No. No. You don't like walk like a wimp afterwards? No. No? So you're saying you've had this done, Joel. You're saying no. Yes, I've had it done before, but it's not a consistent thing. You've already had this done before? Yes. Am I behind? Am I supposed to have it already by my late 30s? Behind? What? Am I behind on getting it? Yeah. I don't. Damn it. Never mind. Let's just wrap this up so your wife can play dude. No more talking about prostate exams. I mean, put it on your to-do list. It's right there at the top. And then colonoscopy, that's when you've got to clear your whole system and they go in with a camera. Yeah, I had that done. That wasn't fun. Yeah. Do you have to, like, lay on your side for that? Well, no. Seriously, the actual procedure is fine. The actual procedure is fine because you're usually knocked out for it. But the prep work. Yeah. To clear out your colon, you have to drink, like, a gallon of, like, Maalox with Gatorade and, like, take laxatives, too. Let me tell you something. Does that work? It's like 10 glasses of Gatorade with all that mixed in. Oh, it works. It works. And let me tell you, like, by the eighth or ninth glass, you're kind of like, this is before that. You're like, whatever, it's fine. And then, like, you get to the last one, you're like, I cannot drink anymore. Yeah. Pick a Gatorade flavor you don't like. And then, in my experience, it was coming out both ends. Do you do this the night before? Yeah, it's a whole day worth. And you can't, like, eat anything after a certain point. So, like, no Mexican food before you embark on the journey. No, you feel like a million bucks after. I mean, yeah, after you're cleared out, like, you feel like you lost 10 pounds. You're like the cock of the walk. You're like, yeah, I could do this all day long. I've never thought of myself as that. The dietist said I didn't have to do it for 10 years, and I was like, good. Good, yeah. So you've got to do this every 10 years? Well, unless they find polyps or something. Oh, okay. So is this like a preventative? I genuinely don't know. Is this like preventative? It's like going to the dentist, couldn't it? So how old were you, Tom? They stick a camera up your ass. When you did this, Tom, how old were you? I did it last summer, I think. I think it was last summer. Okay, so I got a year or two. Yeah. I think they used to recommend it like late 40s, early 50s, and now they're like saying it's actually better to do it earlier, so like 45-ish. I got like three and a half years. 45. Okay, three and a half years. Yeah. Unless you have some weird poops. If you have some weird poops sometimes and you see something weird. No. Go see your doctor next. Well, everything's fine. I get in and I do my – now, I don't hang out on the toilet, though. Because if you do that, then you can have problems. That's the importance, bro. Yeah, exactly. You get in, you get out. Yeah, exactly. There's some poor soul out there listening to us right now on this 30th minute on the shitter. He's like, oh, my God. This is like, I didn't even think of this. You know, when the legs start to fall asleep, it's been too long. Yeah, you screwed up. You screwed up. You come hobbling out of the bathroom because your legs are asleep. Your wife asked you why you're dragging your right leg behind you. You're like, don't worry about it. It's fine. It's fine. It's good. Why do people listen to this? I don't need to plug it up. You plugged – yeah. We plugged it. I stream on the Flip N Out Pinball YouTube channel. You can check out any of the tutorials or videos I've made, and then my brother and I stream every week live. So click on the Live tab, and you can see all of our live streams, and then obviously here on Triple Dream. So appreciate all the support, everybody. The channel is growing. If you're listening to this, feel free to follow us on YouTube. Travis might actually do some stuff with clips and other stuff so we may end up doing a little more on YouTube no promises there but we don't know whether it's supposed to be on our main channel or a separate channel we haven't figured that out yet so Travis's to do list prostate number one figure out YouTube number two find a place to sleep number three okay so yeah no we're all good but yeah this was fun and until next time You get the last word. I want everybody to comment what their S tier games are and why Joel is wrong.