TWIP Interviews deeproot Pinball

Cary Hardy·video·15m 11s·analyzed·Sep 23, 2019

Analysis

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TL;DR

Cary Hardy analyzes Deep Root's ambitious claims amid skepticism about delivery.

Summary

Cary Hardy presents a dramatic reading/analysis of a TWIP interview with Robert Mueller of Deep Root Pinball, covering the company's development status, manufacturing plans, animation pipeline, and a controversial statement about playfield defects in competitor machines. Hardy expresses skepticism about Deep Root's track record of delays and promises while acknowledging hope for genuine industry competition.

Key Claims

Deep Root plans to achieve animation quality of 8-9 out of 10 by middle of next year, with their second game pushing boundaries never before seen in pinball
high confidence · Robert Mueller in TWIP interview, describing animation pipeline goals
Deep Root has nearly 200 innovations in development and would take five years and tens of millions in capital for other manufacturers to catch up
medium confidence · Mueller's response about the 'Deep Root package of innovations' for licensing
Deep Root will offer a 10-year warranty on playfield wear and tear including dimples at launch
high confidence · Mueller's statement directly addressing playfield defect concerns
All Stern, JJP, and Spooky machines Mueller has purchased were sold in defective and unacceptable condition regarding playfield surfaces
high confidence · Mueller's public statement made on Canada's Pinball Podcast, included in interview
Deep Root plans to use distribution channels different from traditional Stern/JJP models, keeping support and returns in-house
high confidence · Mueller's explanation of distribution strategy in interview
Deep Root's first three games will be unlicensed at least for theme art and animation, though portions may include licensed music
high confidence · Mueller's clarification on licensing approach
Five days of Deep Root launch event will still happen but possibly not as originally imagined
high confidence · Mueller's response to question about launch plans
Deep Root is building an in-house auditorium for game release and working on engineering documentation for manufacturing
high confidence · Mueller describing launch preparation work

Notable Quotes

“Tons of engineering documentation, testing, patent work, etc. It feels like one of those flipper fixer-up shows on HGTV. We got one day to finish the Renaults, and things are crazy.”
Robert Mueller@ 1:54 — Mueller's metaphor for the intensity of the final 10-20% of game development
“If the average pin animation is around 3 out of 10 our second title is maybe a 6 out of 10. We plan to push quality to 8 to 9 of 10 by middle of next year”
Robert Mueller@ 3:56 — Directly addresses Deep Root's ambitious animation quality goals relative to industry standards
“All the Stern, JJP, and Spooky Machines I have purchased were sold in a defective and unacceptable condition”
Robert Mueller@ 9:30 — Strong criticism of competitor quality, central to Deep Root's value proposition
“It would take five years and tens of millions in capital for other manufacturers to catch up with nearly 200 innovations we are planning at launch unless they choose to flat out copy what we are doing”
Robert Mueller@ 5:11 — Claims technological moat and hints at potential intellectual property disputes
“Our goal isn't to produce X number of games a day just to say we can beat a competitor claiming Y number of games a day. We'd rather wow our customers with the highest quality, most advanced, super fun pinball machines available on the market.”
Robert Mueller@ 10:24 — Contrasts Deep Root's approach against manufacturing-focused competitors, emphasizing quality over volume
“basically they've been well known because of right now, to a majority of us they're all talk and little to no walk so all we have to go on is basically what we are told”

Entities

Deep Root Pinballcompany Robert Muellerperson Cary Hardyperson Jeff PattersonpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

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business_signal: Deep Root claims to have spent millions on manufacturing process and aims for quality over volume production, rejecting typical manufacturing speed benchmarks used by competitors
high · Mueller: 'We've spent millions on manufacturing process. Our goal isn't to produce X number of games a day just to say we can beat a competitor'
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community_signal: Mueller makes aggressive public criticism of Stern, JJP, and Spooky playfield quality, claiming all machines purchased from these manufacturers since 2015 were defective; this directly challenges industry standards and creates potential legal/PR friction
high · Mueller's statement: 'All the Stern, JJP, and Spooky Machines I have purchased were sold in a defective and unacceptable condition' and assertion that companies 'should be held liable for their reckless refusal'
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sentiment_shift: Significant trust deficit with Deep Root due to multi-year history of delays and unfulfilled promises; community willing to suspend skepticism if company delivers on quality and warranty claims
high · Hardy: 'basically they've been well known because of right now, to a majority of us they're all talk and little to no walk' and 'i'm taking everything that's said with a grain of salt'
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event_signal: Deep Root planning 'Five days of Deep Root' launch event, timing uncertain relative to Texas Pinball Festival; Mueller expressed concern about missing TPF again after missing it last year
high · Mueller: 'The five days of Deep Root will still happen, but maybe not the way I first imagined them to be' and concern about 'suffering of missing another TPF'
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Topics

Deep Root Pinball development status and timelineprimaryPlayfield quality defects and manufacturing standardsprimaryAnimation and graphics pipeline specificationsprimaryManufacturing strategy and capacity planningprimaryDistribution strategy and sales channelssecondaryCommunity skepticism and trust in pinball manufacturersprimaryLicensing strategy for game themes and musicsecondaryCompetitive dynamics in pinball manufacturingsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.35)— Cary Hardy expresses cautious skepticism about Deep Root's ability to deliver on promises while hoping they succeed as a competitive force. Mueller's interview contains confident claims about innovations and quality standards, but the broader sentiment reflects industry-wide trust deficit due to Deep Root's history of delays and unfulfilled promises. Hardy's concluding stance is 'we'll see' — hopeful but unconvinced.

Transcript

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Oh, about to get my deep root on. What's up guys and welcome back to my channel where I talk and do everything pinball. so that sounds interesting to you then hit that subscribe button down below as i peruse through my channel content i realized that i don't really have any content from deep root or pretty much any manufacturer besides stern so i'm going to put a change to that guys i want to be able to expand over all manufacturers i like i say i'm at the beginning of all my videos i do I talk and do everything pinball. So that is not talking to everything Stern. I want to be able to talk and discuss about everybody. So one of the new things that came out today via Twit from Jeff Patterson, there was an interview done with Robert Sébastien Muller from Deep Root Pinball. And the thing is, a lot of people probably are not going to read this because it requires reading. So I thought to myself, what better way to give people the ability to either listen or maybe even watch how this interview unfolded. So my plans are here to basically act out the portion between Jeff Patterson and Robert Mueller. No, I did not memorize this, guys. So therefore, you're going to see me looking down at the printed out interview to basically give you the dialogue. So I'm going to let you watch this next portion and afterwards we'll discuss my thoughts. First off, how are things at Deep Root Pinball? It is very stressful at times, funny at times, but the last 10-20% usually are the hardest. And what all is involved in the last 10-20%? Tons of engineering documentation, testing, patent work, etc. It feels like one of those flipper fixer-up shows on HGTV. We got one day to finish the Renaults, and things are crazy. You mentioned that the games at Houston Arcade Expo are prototypes and won't have the final art, design, or code. Is this a soft launch for Deep Root Pinball? No, this is not a launch at all. I specifically kept the announcement very vague as to not signal a launch. And what type of real-world data will you be collecting? In-house, we have some multi-tier wear and tear rigs as well as an apocalypse rack for electrical boards. But we want to real-world test what happens when moving the machine for distance, harmonic vibration exposure, and pinheads pounding on them for a couple of days. In addition, we want to see how often mechs get hit and with what intensity so we can adjust default settings. What can we expect with the Deep Root launch that you mentioned early next year? Are the five days of Deep Root still in the plan? The five days of Deep Root will still happen, but maybe not the way I first imagined them to be. We are finishing up an in-house auditorium for the release and making sure that all the engineering can be ready to release for manufacturing. We plan to announce the launch date soon. Are you looking at before or after Texas Pinball Festival? Not launching a TPF last year was a big hit for all of us. But the silver lining was that it was for the best. I don't know if I can go through the suffering of missing another TPF. You mentioned the teaser for your second game will showcase a level of cinematic animations never before seen within pinball. Can you expound on that? We plan to push the boundaries for animation when compared to movies shows video games let alone anything pinball has ever seen before If the average pin animation is around 3 out of 10 our second title is maybe a 6 out of 10. We plan to push quality to 8 to 9 of 10 by middle of next year as our three pipelines mature more. One title next year will be live action with CGI which will be another first we will bring to pinball what are your three pipelines pre-render live render and live action can you dumb that down for me what do you mean by live action with cgi think most modern movies like lord of the rings marvel star wars live action filming the screen tracking or rotoscoping special effects will the second game be a licensed theme no the first three games will be unlicensed at least as the theme art and animation does that mean that some portions of the themes may include license aspects for instance the music yes it could mean that i'm confused by your statement when it says other pinball manufacturers interested in licensing the deep root package of innovations should email sales at deeprootpinball.com what is the deep root package of innovations and are you saying it could be utilized by other pinball manufacturers it would take five years and tens of millions in capital for other manufacturers to catch up with nearly 200 innovations we are planning at launch unless they choose to flat out copy what we are doing we are more than happy to share and license some or all of the deep root package we will show We also want to support smaller and boutique manufacturers in being able to get access to economies of scale to increase the quality of our games while lowering the price. This does not sound like former rhetoric from Deep Root. You mentioned copying. Are there any repercussions for a company copying the innovations you are planning? With your statement about boutique companies, does that mean you're more likely to share your innovations with a smaller manufacturer rather than Stern? Which companies do you consider to be smaller or boutique manufacturers? I would rather not discuss legal strategies. I just hope that wouldn't happen. As for your second question, yes. If Stern came asking, I would listen. third jjp spooky ap cosmic etc but not p3 jerry let that boat sail years ago based on your last paragraph about distributorship does that mean that deep root is planning on using current pinball distributors to sell deep root machines will this be in the same way that stern and jjp sell through distributors. Our distribution will be different, at least as I understand how companies are doing theirs. We want to keep support and returns in-house and don't want to deal with lots of distributors. Typically in sales, the majority of receipts are attributable to only 10 to 15% of the distribution channel. We have some thoughts about how to get the best of all worlds. On Canada's Pinball Podcast, you released a statement saying, In my personal opinion, as a purchaser of pinball machines and what I've personally experienced as a principal of a pinball company, craters, pits, dimples, ghostings, puddles, cracking, and any other similar flaws by a standard weight pinball or attached hardware to the surface of a playfield whether in the course of play or not is a known and preventable material defect in the engineering and manufacturing process We know historically that these flaws were rare. I have 20 to 30 year old machines that have little to no visible signs of playfield damage after thousands of plays. We also know that over time there could be some degradation of the protective coatings that should not be present on newly manufactured machines. While variations and tolerances inherent in the manufacturing process are expected, they should be rare and nominal. Thus, it is expected that a very small percentage of playfields would statistically exhibit some or all of these flaws. However, every manufacturer that I have purchased a game from since 2015 and every modern game I have played on location also almost uniformly exhibits some of these flaws. Since Stern, JJP, and Spooky have all benefited from thousands of dollars of my personal money in return for poorly designed playful surfaces, it is my personal opinion that these companies either intentionally or negligently refused or failed to adequately engineer and manufacture playfield surfaces and coatings to prevent and statistically minimize these known and preventable conditions. I personally reject any statement from any other pinball company to the contrary. I will hold myself and my pinball company to the very same standard I expect from these other companies. It sounds like Deep Root is hoping to make playfields that have almost no defects like ghosting, puddling, chipping, or dimpling. Does Deep Root plan to make their own playfields? All the Stern, JJP, and Spooky Machines I have purchased were sold in a defective and unacceptable condition. While I am appreciative of Chuck's desire to keep trying to improve, Stern and JJP should be held liable for their reckless refusal to properly engineer their products to expected customer use. Pinball purchasers deserve better, and they will finally have Deep Root on their side when we launch with an unprecedented 10-year warranty on playfield wear and tear, which includes dimples. And yes, I will be using hashtag hammer live at launch. The manufacturing of a machine in a timely manner is always a huge hurdle for new pinball manufacturers. What is the plan for manufacturing at Deeproot? We've spent millions on manufacturing process. Our goal isn't to produce X number of games a day just to say we can beat a competitor claiming Y number of games a day. We'd rather wow our customers with the highest quality, most advanced, super fun pinball machines available on the market. In the end, I think they'd rather have that than saying, they said they could make X number of games a day, so where's my machine? At one point you had mentioned Deep Root would plan to ship a game to the consumer within two weeks of their order. Is that still the case? Sure. So that's how the interview, at least, is documented for us to view. There may have been other questions or other things, but that is all we have to go on. So how do I feel about this information? First things first, Robert, you still have not accepted my friend invitation via Facebook, and my feelings are a little hurt. Don't act like you don't know who I am. I mean do you know who I am I mean I not like you know a big dog or anything but I thought that maybe a lot of people in pinball probably know who I am by now Maybe Somebody at your factory knows who I am I a Texas resident Feel free to give me a holler so I can come down there and see what you're working on. In all seriousness, I do plan to go to the Houston Arcade Expo in November. Plans may change, but I do plan to go. So when it comes to Deep Root, basically they've been well known because of right now, to a majority of us they're all talk and little to no walk so all we have to go on is basically what we are told we haven't really gotten a really good visual backup to what is being spoken to us on what they are developing and how they're going about doing it so we essentially just have to take robert's word for it i mean that's all we got to go by right now so i'm pretty sure that he understands the fact that we are a little bit hesitant on just you know believing everything that he says not that he's lying but it's it's been years now guys i mean you got to give us something and i know you've been giving us little nuggets here and there but as of right now uh we just hope that everything you say is true so to have a 10-year warranty on your play field that is amazing uh that is something that i'm hoping that stands true and i'm hoping that you go by your word on basically giving us machines and materials to work with that are not going to have these issues i mean i think that's what basically stands true to a lot of us people out there in the pinball industry is that we want to have trust in a factory and i'm thinking that our trust is starting to get a little iffy due to the recent events with multiple manufacturers so for you to say that you're going to take a hammer to a play field that is uh that's going to be something to see just to see how strong that is i mean uh i'm definitely curious to see how that goes so when it comes to deep root basically for me is that i i'm taking everything that's said with a grain of salt. I'm not getting too excited about it, but I do, I hope that everything that is told to us is true and that I'm, and I hope that they do really well. I want them to be a competitor. I want them to strive this industry into basically an era of actual competition. We need competition in any type of industry and since we are primarily interested in this then we want there to be competition. We want manufacturers and companies to fight over our wallet and what better way to do that than to lower prices by increasing quality. So in a nutshell how I feel about Deep Root is this... we'll see. That's gonna wrap up this video guys so what are your thoughts on Deep Root Pinball and this interview? What do you gather from it? Let me know down in the comments below. And if you've liked what you've seen here, please give me that thumbs up to let me know. And if you haven't already, guys, do not forget to hit that subscribe button down below. That way you can be notified of whenever I upload something for your viewing pleasure. Until next time, guys. Peace out. Outro Music