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Yukon Yeti by Turner Pinball | The Spiritual Successor to White Water

LoserKid YouTube·video·48m 59s·analyzed·Apr 17, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Turner Pinball announces Yukon Yeti with Chris Granner audio design, discusses unlicensed vs. licensed strategy and production scaling.

Summary

Chris Turner of Turner Pinball discusses Yukon Yeti, positioned as a spiritual successor to White Water (1992), announced at Texas Pinball Festival. The game features unlicensed original IP but benefits from designer Dennis Nordman involvement and newly-secured audio work by legendary pinball sound designer Chris Granner. Turner explains the company's evolution from Ninja Eclipse through Merlin's Arcade, his shift from a compact cabinet design to full-size machines based on community feedback, and Turner Pinball strategy to move toward licensed themes while scaling production capacity.

Key Claims

  • Yukon Yeti is planned as a 500-unit run and expected to sell out

    high confidence · Chris Turner states 'I think we'll sell out of the 500 of these' in the interview

  • Turner Pinball is planning to move toward licensed games after establishing operational stability with unlicensed titles

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'I would just say that we are going to move in that direction as well' and mentions working on a licensed title they cannot yet discuss

  • Chris Turner previously worked at Lockheed Martin in aerospace for ~12 years before moving to San Antonio in 2013

    high confidence · Chris Turner confirms 12-year tenure at Lockheed and 2013 relocation timing

  • Ninja Eclipse sold out (100 units) at Expo the same year Turner Pinball introduced the large cabinet design

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'we went to Expo that same year and October and that was when we sold out'

  • Turner Pinball initially designed a compact 'slimline' cabinet with removable backbox but pivoted to full-size design based on show feedback

    high confidence · Chris Turner describes early prototype with detachable backbox and explains: 'people want a game that looks good in their lineup'

  • The Yeti character on Yukon Yeti's playfield does not move, unlike the original White Water; instead a Yeti topper with moving head will provide character interaction

    high confidence · Chris Turner explains design decision: 'the mechanical design of it when we tried to make him move just wasn't working right' and describes the 'northern lights topper' with moving head

  • Yukon Yeti development originated at Deeproot Pinball with Dennis Nordman before Turner Pinball acquired the assets

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'Dennis originally started this game with Deeproot Pinball... when that company shut down, I acquired the assets'

  • Chris Granner, original White Water sound designer, has been signed to create audio for Yukon Yeti and is returning to pinball after extended absence

Notable Quotes

  • “It's like an engineer's dream. It's like you know, you got electrical and mechanical and software engineering and then you got the art and you've got the audio and like I don't know what other kind of field you could be in where you combine all those things except maybe like Disney animatronics or something.”

    Chris Turner@ 5:46 — Articulates Turner's personal motivation and engineering philosophy driving the company's approach to game design

  • “You will never have that with an unlicensed theme, right? Because there's nobody in line to get the theme that they've never heard of... the sales cycle for an unlicensed theme is much harder than just having an IP and saying 'Hey, we're going to build Pokémon.'”

    Chris Turner@ 10:41 — Candid explanation of the commercial disadvantage unlicensed games face vs. licensed IP, revealing the economic logic behind eventual shift to licensing

  • “I can't wait to talk to you.”

    Chris Granner (via email, reported by Chris Turner)@ 26:28 — Demonstrates Granner's immediate enthusiasm upon realizing the Yukon Yeti project involved Dennis Nordman and White Water legacy

  • “the goal was we want the Yeti to be as big as possible because like we want him to be obvious there, like right up on that mountain area on the upper playfield. And so, in order to get this Yeti to move is kind of this compromise... the mechanical design of it when we tried to make him move just wasn't working right”

    Chris Turner @ ~36:00 — Explains the design constraint-vs-creative-decision tradeoff, showing practical engineering reasoning behind removing the moving Yeti feature

  • “almost all of the orders include the all-in package... almost all of the orders I think the people that are interested in this game that are collectors really want the best of this game and so that's what they're choosing.”

    Chris Turner@ 23:26 — Market signal: high take-rate on premium package options indicates strong collector demand and willingness to pay for premium features

Entities

Chris TurnerpersonTurner PinballcompanyYukon YetigameNinja EclipsegameMerlin's ArcadegameJosh Roopperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Yukon Yeti by Turner Pinball officially unveiled at Texas Pinball Festival as third release from the manufacturer; 500-unit production run planned

    high · Chris Turner confirms Yukon Yeti launch and Josh Roop states game was 'belle of the ball' at TPF; Turner states 'I think we'll sell out of the 500 of these'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Yukon Yeti features distinct playfield design with left ramp wave shot, two main upper playfield shots (rapids ramp and return shots), and trapdoor shot; intentionally distinct from White Water despite spiritual successor positioning

    high · Chris Turner details playfield layout: 'the ramp on the left that kind of you know, has the wave... the shots in the upper playfield have some similarities because there's two main shots up there'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Turner Pinball explicitly positions games as family-friendly with whimsical, adventure-themed aesthetics suitable for home collections; contrasts with darker art styles of competitors

    high · Chris Turner: 'we want to make family-friendly games and so, like the tone of our games is going to be something where anybody could put this in their living room and they have their kids around it and it's going to be a welcome addition'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Chris Granner, legendary original White Water sound designer, signed to create audio for Yukon Yeti; marks his return to pinball after extended hiatus

    high · Chris Turner announces: 'legendary Chris Granner who did who did Adams Family, who did the original White Water... is going to be doing Yukon Yeti'; details LinkedIn outreach and Granner's enthusiastic response

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:06
[music] >> Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid
0:08
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid
0:08
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me my co-captain, Scott Larson. Scott, you know, Texas Pinball Festival just happened and there was the there was a belle of the ball. Everyone's talking about how beautiful this game is. If you want this game, where are you getting it, Scott? >> I'll call Zach and Nicole Mini at
0:24
I'll call Zach and Nicole Mini at
0:24
I'll call Zach and Nicole Mini at Flippin' Out Pinball. They can help you out with your your new games, your used games. If you want to pick up Yukon Yeti, go ahead and reach out and talk to Zach and Nicole Mini at Flippin' Out Pinball. Seriously, this game looks amazing. I am a huge fan of Whitewater myself. Um so, to hear a spiritual successor like Yukon Yeti, I'm excited. I'm excited to play this. I'm jealous I didn't get to go to Texas Pinball Festival. But, to talk about it and all the shenanigans going on at Turner Pinball, we have the man, the myth, the legend himself, Chris Turner. How are you doing, Chris? I'm doing great, guys. Thank you so much for having me on. Definitely. You know, and this is the first time we've had you on and I'm excited to have you on cuz you've been kind of doing these projects. You started out with Ninja Eclipse and I remember you coming to Expo 3 years ago. Has it been about that long? I think so. Yeah. >> It's about that and playing Ninja

high confidence · Chris Turner details outreach via LinkedIn and Granner's excited response upon learning the game was by Dennis Nordman

  • “people looked at it and they're like, what is this? And I was like, oh dear, this is this is not what I planned. But, anyway, you know, we're we go to the shows to listen and learn”

    Chris Turner@ 3:03 — Demonstrates Turner's customer-centric iterative approach and willingness to abandon initial design vision based on feedback

    • Scott Larson
    person
    Dennis Nordmanperson
    Chris Grannerperson
    Deeproot Pinballcompany
    Brad Dukeperson
    White Watergame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Turner Logiccompany
    Lockheed Martincompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jason Nachtperson
    LoserKid YouTubecompany
    Addams Familygame

    product_strategy: Turner Pinball using unlicensed original IP (Ninja Eclipse, Merlin's Arcade, Yukon Yeti) as stepping stones to establish manufacturing stability and brand credibility before shifting toward licensed games

    high · Chris Turner: 'we are going to move in that direction as well. I think that um we've grown the company to this point with these unlicensed themes because I thought that was a good strategy... but ultimately, this system is going to be a great foundation for the next game that we do, which is probably going to be a licensed game'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Turner Pinball planning facility expansion to increase production capacity; Yukon Yeti positioned as stepping stone to support this transition while fulfilling orders before next larger release

    high · Chris Turner: 'we're working on a new facility, and uh when we get into that facility, that is going to ramp up our production capability substantially... this will be the stepping stone game that'll get us into the new facility'

  • ?

    business_signal: Turner Pinball structured as three-game learning curve with incremental improvements: Ninja Eclipse (proof of concept), Merlin's Arcade (iteration), Yukon Yeti (stepping stone to licensing and scaling)

    high · Chris Turner: 'we tested that with Ninja, we iterated on that for Merlins, and again on Yukon Yeti. And I think we've got a really good stable system... that'll be a great foundation for the next game'

  • ?

    community_signal: Turner Pinball demonstrated responsiveness to community feedback, abandoning initial compact cabinet design for full-size machines after show attendees expressed preference for lineup-friendly proportions

    high · Chris Turner: 'people looked at it and they're like, what is this... people want a game that looks good in their lineup. And you know, if you got this little cabinet, even if the playfield and everything in the game is the same, it just doesn't look good in the lineup. And so, I heard that loud and clear and we fixed that'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Yukon Yeti features structured story progression with multi-mode design following 1890s Yukon gold rush narrative: Skagway supply gathering → Chilkoot Pass → rapids → gold prospecting → Dawson City end sequence; Yeti character serves as whimsical antagonist/helper throughout

    high · Chris Turner describes: 'you start out in a a city called Skagway... you have to like buy all these supplies... Chilkoot Pass... rapids, you build a boat... stake your claim and find some gold... towns like Dawson City... the Yeti... He's not menacing... sometimes he messes with you... sometimes he helps you'

  • ?

    product_concern: Yukon Yeti's Yeti character on playfield does not move (unlike original White Water), a design constraint driven by the need to maximize Yeti size/visual impact in compact upper playfield area and mechanical fit challenges

    high · Chris Turner explains: 'we talked about a lot of different options for movement... the mechanical design of it when we tried to make him move just wasn't working right in order to fit him where he needed to fit and be the size he needed to be'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Yukon Yeti all-in premium package showing extremely high collector adoption rate; vast majority of orders include premium topper (northern lights Yeti head with movement and effects), Invisiglass, RGB speakers, art blades, and custom sliders

    high · Chris Turner: 'almost it it is a vast majority. I mean almost all of the orders include the all-in package... for the most part I think the people that are interested in this game that are collectors really want the best of this game'

  • $

    market_signal: Chris Turner articulates fundamental market asymmetry: licensed IP (e.g., Pokémon) drives pre-orders without gameplay demonstration, while unlicensed games require field play, community enthusiasm, and word-of-mouth to generate sales velocity

    high · Chris Turner: 'There are people that will have money down... They don't know what the art looks like. They don't know what the gameplay is like... But they're like Take my money. It's Pokémon game... You will never have that with an unlicensed theme'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Yukon Yeti generating significant community enthusiasm at Texas Pinball Festival as spiritual successor to beloved 1992 White Water; positioned as spiritual successor benefits from Dennis Nordman designer involvement and now confirmed Chris Granner audio partnership

    high · Josh Roop: 'I am a huge fan of Whitewater myself... to hear a spiritual successor like Yukon Yeti, I'm excited'; hosts note Yukon Yeti was 'belle of the ball' at TPF and Chris Turner's presence with Dennis Nordman at booth generated positive crowd reaction

    • 1:15
    It's about that and playing Ninja
    1:15
    It's about that and playing Ninja Eclipse, I want to say kind of for the first time and you took all that that feedback and everything that you'd heard along it from Texas Pinball Festival when you first shown and you've just it you've used them as stepping stones, right? And like I feel like you've done it right cuz like the original cabinet design almost looks like like a Zizzle. I don't know how to put it. And now this You were not alone in that assessment, so. >> [laughter]
    1:41
    [laughter]
    1:41
    [laughter] >> We definitely heard that loud and clear.
    1:43
    We definitely heard that loud and clear.
    1:43
    We definitely heard that loud and clear. So, okay, I I will say that to your credit, you guys you guys took feedback and you did you were able to pivot very quickly to adapt the game to to what people expect in a pinball machine and if you're going to compete with other companies, you're going to have to compete with a product that people look at and assess as a commercial grade pinball machine. So, I do appreciate that you were willing to look at those things and pivot very quickly, which is a credit to you and the way you're approaching things. Well, thank you, Scott. I appreciate it. So, prior to that Expo, we had actually come with a Whitewood to TPF that same year. And it was in a full-size cabinet. We were working on the smaller cabinet cuz we thought that we were solving some problems that were like, hey, you know, pinball's hard to move around, it's hard to get upstairs. So, we had this like unique back box concept that could like come off completely and had like uh there was really no back to it. We're trying to make it really as lightweight as possible and then we had the slimline cabinet and that drove a lot of design of like the playfield elements like you couldn't have things too deep cuz everything had to fit in this small cabinet. I thought, oh man, people are going to love this cuz like it's way easier to move around and then people looked at it and they're like, what is this? And I was like, oh dear, this is this is not what I planned. But, anyway, you know, we're we go to the shows to listen and learn and obviously I want to deliver a product that people want. And so, yeah, we got the feedback and then we we pivoted and I I think the the thing that made so much sense to me is that people want a game that looks good in their lineup. And you know, if you got this little cabinet, even if the playfield and everything in the game is the same, it just doesn't look good in the lineup. And so, I heard that loud and clear and we fixed that and then yeah, launched again at TPF the next year and it was great. People loved the game and things just kept moving forward from there. Well, I think it goes to show cuz you you're trying to drive some innovation in this industry and look at stuff from a different angle. And I didn't know this, but we were kind of talking about this right before we started recording, but you used to work for Lockheed Martin in aerospace and whatnot. Do you bring those Do you bring those ideas and stuff? And like how do you apply that to this cuz they're kind of two separate things, you know? You know, you bring up the the history with working for Lockheed and stuff and that was great. That was my first job out of college. I worked there for about 12 years. It was it was awesome. I made a lot of great friends and worked on a lot of cool projects. Um also, there was this really cool thing we did. It was like this robotics competition like that we'd have each year and that was a ton of fun. Um but anyway, yeah, I learned a ton of stuff and I really enjoyed it and when I when I moved from Florida to San Antonio and so, I'm in Texas now, obviously. Um that was around 2013. My wife grew up in San Antonio and she kind of imported me out here. Uh and I transitioned with Lockheed to a facility that they have out here. It wasn't like one of their corporate offices. It was just like they were renting some space in another building. And it was a kind of a totally different dynamic and I decided, you know, I really wanted to start my own business and I feel like I'm at a point in my career where I I know what I need to know to do that. And so, that was kind of the start of Turner Logic, which is my software company and basically worked doing custom software and electronics for startups and companies here in the San Antonio area. And so, um yeah, I mean, taking all of that stuff to pinball, it's like my background is just building cool things and there's a ton of opportunity to build cool things in pinball. It's like an engineer's dream. It's like you know, you got electrical and mechanical and software engineering and then you got the art and you've got the the audio and like I don't know what other kind of field you could be in where you combine all those things except maybe like Disney animatronics or something, you know? So, for me personally, it's just so fun to build all these cool things and that's what we get to do every day. So, it's great. Now, uh Ninja Eclipse was it was basically your gateway, your your test case to say, hey, is this something we can do and is this something that the people want? Now, your initial goal was 100 games. Yep. And I believe you sold all those you finished it at a show, right? Which show was it that you actually finished selling all your games? It was So, you talked about Expo I guess 3 years ago and then we came to TPF with the new model in the large cabinet and then we went to Expo that same year and October and that was when we sold out. Yeah, so I think that shows that people looked at it and were able to say, hey, this is something that we could get behind. Um I I've actually been a big fan of the way your cabinets look and the art that you were able to do because a lot of art is really hard to get right in pinball. Uh because everybody's trying to figure out what they want to be and it seems like you guys have this this kind of whimsical, almost a comic book style adventure like swashbuckling adventure type thing. So, how did you come approach to say, this is who we are and this is what type of games we want to make? So, that's an interesting question. I mean, one of the things that really drives the way we do things it's actually what Josh said right before we started is like, hey, this is family-friendly. Um and that's great cuz that's what we are as a pinball company, you know, we want to make family-friendly games and so, like the the tone of our games is going to be something where anybody could put this in their living room and they have their kids around it and it's going to be a welcome addition. And so, we want our everything about our game to to feel family-friendly and the art is a part of that, I think. You know, you can have like darker art or you know, lighter art that's appealing more broadly and to also a younger audience. And so, we we just want to focus on the family-friendly stuff and make games that have broad appeal and are definitely welcome in anybody's house.
    8:22
    So, is that So, is that kind of why you led towards Merlin's Arcade after that as well? So, I mean, Merlin's Arcade specifically, like I chose that particular game because John Norris had this layout for it and we really liked the layout. I like kind of like the King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table stuff and so, I thought, man, I think this would be a really fun game. I think it's definitely family-friendly. It's recognizable. Um I think the I love the art on that playfield and then all of the knights on the cabinet and everything. I think it looks great. Um the game is just a lot of fun. So, we built something that we thought people would really enjoy and I think that it's been a little bit challenging with like unlicensed themes. You know, we're creating our own IPs with Ninja Eclipse, with Merlin's Arcade and now with Yukon Yeti. It's a little different than like, you know, it's a lot different than watching like a Pokémon, but it's a little different than any any known IP, whether it's a movie or a video game or whatever. And so, you know, we we try to pick games that we think will have broad appeal even though it is an unlicensed theme. But, yeah, we we pick things we like. We pick things that we think other people will like, too and that's part of the reason why we selected Merlin's Arcade. So, the question is, is this a viable option in today's market when people are used to seeing themes they connect with when they're looking at spending money on an a $10,000 game. It is a much harder path for a pinball company to make unlicensed themes, I think. Uh I think getting licenses um there's already this established brand identity that is recognizable that I mean just think about the the sales process for a licensed versus an unlicensed. So, it's a licensed it's Pokémon, right? Everybody knows Pokémon. There are people that will have money down with their dealer to get Pokémon, but they've never seen the game. They don't know what the art looks like. They don't know what the gameplay is like. They don't know the shots, the playfield, anything. But they're like, "Take my money. It's a Pokémon game. I want that game." You will never have that with an unlicensed theme, right? Because there's nobody in line to get the theme that they've never heard of. It just it it wouldn't make sense, right? Like, "Hey, like give me the next unlicensed theme." No, it's not going to happen. And so, the the sales cycle for an unlicensed theme is you you know, you develop this new IP and then you create this game around it, and then you market that game, you bring it to shows, people play it, and people have to play it, they have to like it, they have to talk about it with other people, and that spreads around, and then like that can create the sales numbers that you need for the game. That's a much harder path than just having an IP and saying, "Hey, we're going to build build Pokémon." Um but obviously there are factors in being able to secure a license like Pokémon. And so, obviously that's a a great title for Stern because of the the quantity of machines they can produce. And so, I think all the manufacturers are kind of looking at what fits their niche and uh what licenses they can get, and then also what those licenses cost, and how many machines they're going to have to make, and all those things. And I would just say that we are going to move in that direction as well. I think that um we've grown the company to this point with these unlicensed themes because I thought that was a good strategy for the business. One, we got to make themes where we really had the full creative freedom to do everything we wanted, which was a lot of fun. Um but also uh Scott, you mentioned kind of like we were kind of learning with Ninja Eclipse and things. And like you you don't know what you don't know. That's why we only released a hundred of that game. We wanted to make sure that we could come to market, that we could deliver a really high-quality and reliable machine, and that it would do well in the field, and um we tested that with Ninja, we iterated on that for Merlins, and again on Yukon Yeti. And I think we've got a really good stable system. Um I think our platform for building pinball machines is is really pretty far ahead of anything that's out there. And I'd love to talk more about that. Um but ultimately, this system is going to be a great uh foundation for the next game that we do, which is probably going to be a licensed game. Can't really talk about any of the things that we're working on with it, but I think we are ready for that, and we took the right steps to get there, and that's kind of the direction to move, I think. So, I guess I know that this is a spiritual successor. So, is Yukon Yeti technically an unlicensed theme? It is, yeah. So, do you think though it does benefit because there was you the the like White Water was such a a loved game from the '90s. I I definitely think so, yeah. I mean, this as an unlicensed theme is kind of a unique one because obviously Dennis is involved in this game, he was involved in the other game, and like people see it as this successor. And I think that the popularity of that game it does have some impact cuz people talk about it more, they recognize it, but it's still not the same, I think, as a a licensed game, right? Um you know, I think we'll sell out of the 500 of these, and it'll be a great collectible, but you know, how many Pokémons are they going to sell? It's going to It's going to be like who knows? This is a lot of a lot of Pokémon games. So, it's it's not like that. Well, it does bring up a a good point though is like obviously Stern's an established brand, they've been around for how many years, they have a massive factory. You guys are still um in the first five year stage. You know what I'm saying? You're still growing. I think you Yukon Yeti's a great game because people are we're clamoring for like a White Water 2.0 because they loved this game. I mean, it's from 1992. People wanted to see where this game would go, you know? It's it's one of those ones that's just very well beloved from the Bally Williams era. And so, to to have a company of your size that is able to produce these games at a rate that feels comfortable to you, but not cuz it would be overwhelming if you got Pokémon, right? And you're like, "Oh now, I I've got fit 5, 10,000 of these I've got to build." You know what I'm saying? That'd take a lot of time. >> [laughter]
    15:04
    [laughter]
    15:04
    [laughter] >> So, but it's a great stepping stone,
    15:06
    So, but it's a great stepping stone,
    15:06
    So, but it's a great stepping stone, right? So, Absolutely. I guess the question is what is Turner Pinball doing? Are you guys trying to expand more? Um what what is the game plan moving forward? And I assume Yukon Yeti's that stepping stone that helps that, right? It is, absolutely, yeah. I mean, this game was kind of designed to be our stepping stone game. Uh we're working on a new facility, and uh when we get into that facility, that is going to ramp up our production capability substantially. And that'll be great for fulfilling the orders of this game. And that's it's kind of all the way we had hoped that it would go, and I think it it really has followed that plan very well. Uh but yeah, this will be the stepping stone game that'll get us into the new facility, and we'll be able to ship all the Yukon Yeti games while we work on the next title, and then be prepared for larger releases at that point. So, also not to just larger releases, but uh releases that we can deliver more units faster. I'm curious to see how this is similar to White Water, and how it's different, and what's the next step it takes. Yeah, so this is a totally unique story to this game. I mean, I think that if you're looking at similarities, I think the things that would be most recognizable would be the the ramp on the left that kind of you know, has the wave. And then um the shots in the upper playfield have some similarities because uh there's two main shots up there. There's the one that goes around to the rapids ramp, and then the one that comes down. So, basically returning of either the right or left flipper. We also have like a trapdoor shot, so there's another shot up there. And then obviously, you can fall forward off the front to feed the uh the flipper to get up there again. But um those are kind of the similar elements. Then from there, the the whole themeing of the game is completely unique and independent. So, the the story is set in like the 1890s uh kind of uh just the gold rush of the Yukon, and you are a prospector that is traveling to that area, and then you will go through a series of modes that are really taking you on the journey that you would have gone on had you been in this kind of final frontier gold rush. Um you start out in a a city called Skagway, which is kind of like a a port city where people would arrive on boats to start on their expedition. And then you have to like buy all these supplies cuz you're going on this this crazy journey. And so, the the deal was you're supposed to gather 2,000 lb of supplies, and then you basically got to go up this mountain pass called Chilkoot Pass. And then uh you got to like go over some rapids, you build a boat, you go over these rapids. You get further down where you can actually stake your claim and find some gold. And then you you end up in these towns like further along where people found gold, and then they had all this money, and they wanted to spend it somewhere, so these towns sprung up along the trail. And one of those is Dawson City, and so there's several modes in Dawson City in the game. And then obviously, we've got the Yeti, and uh this uh character is just kind of uh a mischievous character that's He's not menacing. Sometimes he he messes with you, and he'll take stuff from you. Sometimes he helps you, and he'll give stuff. But he just has this attitude of like, "Hey, like this is my mountain, and uh what are you silly humans doing here chasing all this gold?" So, it's just uh it's kind of a a fun and uh whimsical game around a a real story, right? It's it's the 1890s gold rush. So, I think with this being a spiritual successor, people are going to pull a lot of parallels to White Water. And one that I've heard a handful of times now is the Yeti itself does not move. What was the decision there? Cuz on the original one, you know, the Dennis Nordman-looking Yeti, you know, moves when it's in the ground. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I guess he does kind of look like Dennis. It's pretty funny, actually. So, yeah, so they have the head that moves on the Yeti. Um we talked about a lot of different options for movement of the Yeti on the playfield. And we had several iterations. Um if you look at that area of the playfield, like the goal was we want the Yeti to be as big as possible because like we want him to be obvious there, like right up on that mountain area on the upper playfield. And so, in order to get this Yeti to move is kind of this compromise of like being able to fit the parts in there to make him move, not make him where he's like hitting the glass and then also just the the mechanical design of it when we tried to make him move just wasn't working right in order to fit him where he needed to fit and be the size he needed to be to look like he was this Yeti on the mountain. And so in lieu of having that Yeti move, what we decided to do is we will make a Yeti topper. And like the Yeti topper is like this huge Yeti and his head moves and he interacts with you throughout the game. And so we thought that that was a better option for Yeti movement because like the head moving back and forth to us had very little value on the playfield. Uh but we thought the Yeti topper would make a really strong impact. And so that was just a call that we made on the team. I know people have talked about, oh like, you know, why doesn't it move like the white water one? But for the most part I think people uh have accepted that this one doesn't move and obviously liking the game and enjoying it. So that's the decision process that we went through to to come up with that. Now we have a you have a few different lines on and I'm I'm just looking at your website as we're talking. And so there is you know, there's the most popular, there's the the legendary edition and the all-in package. So why don't you walk me through sell me on the all-in package. Why should I pay more for this game? Yeah, so the all-in package includes a lot of the options that I think most collectors are going to want. So like Invisiglass is an option for instance um and you can buy these options all a cart by the way before I go through them all. But the all-in package you're you're buying the the common options plus the uh the premium topper and you're getting that as a package deal and as a result of that you're saving $250 off the cost of what it would if you all a carted all those options individually. And so the um we've got the Invisiglass, we've got the RGB speakers with the the 5-in speakers that are coaxial instead of the 4-in speakers. Um we've got the art blades, we've got uh these nice cabinet uh furniture sliders that we put on the back. Um we have wooden ones as standard and then we have these like uh custom CNC nylon ones that are the upgrade. Uh let's see. I think there're a couple other things on there. We have a a dust cover that's a themed dust cover that will go with the game and then obviously the uh the premium Yeti topper. We call the northern lights topper because it's got uh this light show that it plays that casts like what looks like the northern lights on your ceiling and around the game. Looks really cool. And then the Yeti Yeti head moves around and his eyes light up and he interacts with you during the game. So that's the the all-in package. As I said, you can all a cart any of those options individually and then we do have a standard topper which is like kind of the flat layered plastic topper which you could option in if you so choose. And uh I would just say that um almost it it is a vast majority. I mean almost all of the orders include the all-in package. There are some arcades that have decided like they just want the base package. But for the most part I think the people that are interested in this game that are collectors really want the best of this game and so that's what they're choosing. We actually had one comment from our Patreon. They said he he's bought the all-in legendary edition but he was curious because a lot of like high-end of them have the mirrored back glass. Is that an option you're going to bring available to Yukon Yeti or is that something that's in the future? You know, if some of if a lot of people expressed interest in that, it'd be something that we could do. It's not an option that we have available right now or something that we put in any of our games to date. But um yeah, if there's demand for it, I'd certainly be willing be willing to do it.
    24:11
    Honestly, this game looks fantastic. You know, you've talked about we've talked about being a spiritual successor and I'm excited cuz the one thing that I I heard from a lot of people was like the sound package needs to be fixed. And today you announced today before we interview you the legendary Chris Granner who did who did Adams Family, who did the original White Water, who who's so influential on pinball is going to be doing Yukon Yeti. It's pretty Yeah. How did that happen? Like okay, how did that happen and how excited are you to have this happening? Oh man, it it's awesome. I I was really hoping this would work out. It was kind of a long shot and um but we knew that we were going to do more work on the audio. I think it was a an instance where people they recognized that the audio could use some work. And even though we were going to do that work, I think it created an opportunity for us. So um there are a lot of folks in the community that reached out to us that do audio design for pinball and uh it was very nice. I talked to a lot of them and I think we had a lot of great um possibilities. And uh I obviously knew that Chris Granner worked on the original White Water and I was like, man, if we could get him to do this game, I mean it would just be such a perfect fit. And so I actually reached out to him on LinkedIn. I didn't I didn't have his contact information and I just messaged him and I was like, hey, um you know, we're we're working on this game and uh I want to talk to you about possibly helping with the audio package. Is that something you might be interested in? And he he responded and he was like, well, yeah, like uh we could set up a time to talk about it. Like, you know, I I don't know that I'll have enough time to do it, but you know, we'll we'll definitely talk about it. And so then uh I guess he he like looked up the game cuz he he didn't know me or what we were working on. And so he looked up the game and then realized what it was and then he emailed me back and he's like, oh my goodness, like this is Dennis's game and like he just said how much he loved working on White Water with Dennis and everything and it's like his next email he was just like so excited to talk. He's like, I can't wait to talk to you. I was like, oh man, this is great. So even that that initial before we had talked like he was excited, I was excited. And so um you know, we got to talking and uh there were some things that he had to get approval for with his current work situation and everything and so we were kind of waiting. And uh we just got the the green light to make the announcement and so I put that uh little flyer together and got that out on social today um and uh shared it and uh Jason Nacht published an article which is awesome. And uh yeah, it's uh incredibly exciting and I think that the the community has uh also shared their excitement for this. And uh there are a few people that are like commenting on the post saying like, oh like, what did this guy work on? And they're like, like everything. This guy's a legend. And they're like, oh. >> [laughter]
    27:24
    [laughter]
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    [laughter] >> So there's a few people that maybe don't
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    So there's a few people that maybe don't
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    So there's a few people that maybe don't know, but for everybody else they're just like, oh my goodness, this is incredible. And so what a neat opportunity and I think it's really cool because Chris has been out of pinball for quite some time and this is going to be him coming back to pinball which I am just so happy that I get to be a part of that. It's it's just such a neat story and um I I'm excited to see how it comes together. I think he's just going to do this phenomenal job and uh it's going to be one of those cool pinball stories. So we're definitely excited. Now tell me about uh who's doing your LCD work and all the presentation cuz you've actually done I think you've done a great job in your previous games. Um and so let's talk about that. How how is this one going to be different and what's the next step on this one? Yeah, so uh our artist that does the art for the playfield and the cabinet and everything is Brad Duke. And so he does a lot of the um the assets that go on the screen and then my software team animates those things on the screen. And so what people saw at TPF was like obviously an early version of the the code. I think we had four or five modes coded, but most of the UI for the modes was like just kind of like an image on the screen, just something to be presentable for the show. Um but those are all areas that we're working on and like uh building out all of those mode screens and then the animations for those and everything. And so uh much like you see in Ninja Eclipse or Roman's Arcade, I mean Yukon Yeti will feel similar to that in terms of the way we do the animations and all that stuff. We kind of know that this wasn't originally a Turner game. So how did it end up coming to Turner Pinball? Yeah, so there's definitely a little bit of history there. So Dennis originally started this game with Deeproot Pinball. And obviously, you know, most of you know that story. Um when that company shut down, I acquired the assets of that company and uh in hopes to be able to bring some of these things to the the community and just not have all that work get thrown away. Um obviously Dennis's game was in in that and um Dennis approached me probably Oh man, it was at least a couple years ago at one of the shows and he expressed interest in completing the game and wanted to work together on it. I was like, "Oh man, that would be awesome. We would love to do that and so we kind of set down that path at that point and just you know, work to to get it all built out. But yeah, so that that game was started at Deeproot and then uh Dennis just really wanted to get it done and we were very happy to get to help and Dennis was at our booth at TPF which was so cool because like the lines were crazy and he was just smiling the whole time. It was so cool to see him there and just like so happy that he had a game out and like people were just loving it. So it's really great. Another There's a lot of really good stories that have come out of this game so far. So it's awesome. When I was at Expo this last year, you were there with Merlin's Arcade and with Ninja Ninja Clips and stuff. And some of the cool stuff you have is your cabinet designs like the glass actually folds up and you can pull the the the playfield out. There's some cool stuff you can do with linking your phone to the game. Um but one thing that really caught my eye is when you lift up that playfield, there's these massive PCB boards under there. What made you decide to cut the electrical and go the PC PCB board route? Yeah, so this really kind of dives into a lot of the the differences between our games and the electrical system and mechanical system than pretty much everything else that's out there. Uh so I'll I'll kind of talk through that, explain our our reasoning behind it and kind of the goals that we had when we set out and then also the way that we approach kind of our place in um in the pinball market a little bit differently than I think all the other companies do. And so so two things. So first of all when I set out on this pinball journey, there were a couple things that were like kind of must-haves for me and being able to improve the electrical and wiring system was one of those. Uh I remember meetings that we had with my team at the very beginning and this would be like before you saw that small cabinet Ninja Clips, right? So uh my must-have was like we just can't have all this crazy wiring under the game. It it's a nightmare for maintenance. Uh it's hard to assemble. It's hard to manufacture. And so I was like, "We've got to do this differently." And I had some ideas and methods that I wanted to try and uh I was like, "Look, we got to make this work somehow. Let's try this." And so we kind of started with that and iterated to come to a solution that really takes away a lot of the pain of the manufacturing process and makes the game much more uh maintainable and user-friendly. Pinball is uh the ownership experience. It can be intimidating especially if someone's not familiar with pinball. Um taking off the glass which we'll talk about here in a minute, um flipping up the playfield and trying to troubleshoot something, we wanted to make that process just easier so that people would be less intimidated. It's easier for us on the manufacturing. It's more scalable and also uh just more user-friendly. And so those were all our goals. Now the second thing is in my career I have always tried to if I have to build something to solve one person's problem there might be other people that have that same problem. And if I can solve that problem for more than one person, that's going to be a better business than if I just solve it for one person. And so I kind of set off on this pinball journey with uh manufacturing usability and the idea of creating this system that we could provide to other manufacturers all as like fundamental goals. And so throughout building Ninja Clips and Merlin's and now Yukon, we have built this really efficient and great electrical and mechanical system that makes our process um easier, much less error-prone in manufacturing um where it doesn't require nearly as much testing to get a machine that is reliable and produced well. Um there's just so many things that it really has improved tremendously. And I hope to be able to offer this to other pinball companies and I have had some talks with some of them and I'm trying to share this because I think the stuff that we've built and worked on patenting or all our technology it is a better system to build pinball and I think that any of them that would implement this system, it would make their business um their their product I should say is going to be more reliable, easier to manufacture and ultimately like that's going to end up in being a more profitable business for them because of those things. And so anyway, those are the things that we're working towards. We've done that with our electrical system. Uh we've built a lot of new components like uh like our pop bumpers. I don't know if you guys have seen those, but we've kind of taken uh the William style pop bumper and we have modified it to make it where it doesn't need a spoon switch and it's way more reliable, no tuning needed. Uh things should last forever and uh we started that in Merlin's Arcade. We got the same uh pop numbers in Yukon Yeti. Just looking for all these opportunities to improve the pinball ownership experience, improve the manufacturability and um and then that takes us to the glass frame. Like I don't know about you guys, but I hate taking glass out of pinball machines. Like I mean, you you get used to it, but just because you're used to it, does that make it something you want to do or that we should have to do? And I think the answer is no. And so we have a system where it's just like this one latch and you just open the coin door, just push the latch and it makes this click and you pop the thing like the the trunk of a car and it it can pivot or you can just take it off completely. It's got all the lights integrated so it's like this beautiful downlighting system which I think is ideal for pinball because when you want to really get great illumination like you got light shining up, but really you want downlighting. I think that's the most efficient thing to do. And so it provides that downlighting and then there are no connectors or wires that you have to fiddle with when you're taking this on and off. It's it's pretty incredible and when people see it for the first time, it's very unexpected because it looks like every other pinball machine that they have, but then it works in such a way that is so much better. And then the first question is like why why aren't all of them this way? And I'm like I hope they will be. >> [laughter]
    37:02
    [laughter]
    37:02
    [laughter] >> So it'd be great. Uh
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    So it'd be great. Uh
    37:04
    So it'd be great. Uh I think there would be very few complaints if every pinball glass came off the way ours did, I think. But yeah, those are some of the goals that we set out with and um yeah, we just tried to build a better way to build pinball and then we are showcasing that through the products that we make at Turner Pinball.
    37:29
    Now when you release games, the biggest thing people want on most of these games is, "Okay, how else can I customize it?" So Chris, I have a question. How come I can't see the topper on your website? Like I I find it on when I search for it, I can see it, but am I missing something if I pull up your website? How come the topper's not there? So I think there is a picture of the topper, but you have to go through the the gallery. I probably should make it more prominent. I'd also like to put a video of the topper up there and you know, there's just so many hours in the day. Oh no no I no I get it. I I'm just saying that is that is a big selling point cuz a lot of people are like, "Okay, so if I'm if I'm getting upgrades, I want to see what the upgrade is." So No, it's absolutely true and it's definitely an area I can improve on and I I don't know if you noticed, but like our website, I redid the entire website for the launch just before the launch of Yukon Yeti and um there's I made a lot of improvements that people had asked for about like, "I really want to see the playfield and I want to see the shots." And so now we have this really nice down view like a top view of the playfield and you can click on all these different things and it'll show you what that is. So we're making iterative improvements and and there's definitely room to go further with that. So I'll keep working on it. Okay, I I did find it. You're right. It is the um the >> it needs to The last picture's of the uh
    38:55
    it needs to The last picture's of the uh
    38:55
    it needs to The last picture's of the uh well, it's the this this almost to the end of the gallery, but yes, it is on there. Okay, so I I was curious cuz I was looking at the best places I could find is people's videos at Texas Pinball Festival and I'm like, "Okay, what what what is what is Turner saying about that?" For sure.
    39:15
    What's your what's your favorite part about Yukon Yeti? My favorite part? Yeah, like if someone comes up and you're like, "This is why this game is fun. This is the cool thing. Do this." There are a lot of cool things about the game and obviously I'm a little biased, right? Cuz you know, we've worked on this game and tried to make it awesome. But there is one cool feature and another cool story that I'll tell and it has to do with the big mech in the game which is it's that stair mech that takes the ball up. It's like the the chill could pass and that brings you to the upper playfield. So, Dennis had this idea of these stairs and kind of how they might work and um I don't know if you guys saw this. Like when I was a kid and you go to the mall and like you go to KB around Christmas time, they'd have like these little penguins on the stairs and they'd they just would go up the stairs, you know? And we wanted to do something like that but with the pinball. And it needed to be like this ball lock that was very visible right in the middle of the playfield and we wanted it to be like a five-ball lock. And so those were like the the criteria at the outset. And so we worked on this and we kind of got into it a little bit and I was like, okay, so these balls get up on the stairs and then the game ends and we got to clear all the balls, right? And so we're going to like raise these balls like the little penguins climbing up and they're going to get to the top and they're going to go all the way down the upper playfield all the way down the wire form and then finally come to the drain and I was like, someone's going to be sitting for like 30 seconds waiting for all the balls to like move all the way to the back of the playfield on top and then come all the way down. I was like, we can't do that. So we either need to make this thing like really fast or we need to come up with like some way to release all the balls at once. And like right as I said that, I was like, oh man. I was like, this could be like an avalanche. Mhm. And I was like, that could be like our multi-ball. It's like avalanche multi-ball. And so this was just like this epiphany moment that we had. Just brainstorming trying to solve the problem of the balls are going to take too long after a game ends to like all get to the drain. And so then we set out to like, okay, can we actually build this thing so that it can, you know, do the stair step thing like the penguins and then also turn to like a slide and just shoot all the balls straight down. And we worked on it for a while and my mechanical engineer Gabe and I went back and forth and we came up with something and he was able to draw it all out and we we tested it and with a couple iterations, it works awesome. And so now we have the five-ball avalanche multi-ball which I think is a definitely a huge feature in the game. Probably my favorite feature. But there are a lot of other really cool features that that are close behind. But if I had to pick one, it's the the avalanche multi-ball. Can you set it up for ball stealing? So I In some of the In some options like going up to a game you're like, hey, there's two balls already on the couch at Simpsons. Like maybe I want to play because there's already two balls locked there. Is there a setting to say, hey, go ahead and keep those balls or do you just clear them every time? We've talked about that and so there there are two locks in the game. There is one on the right and it's under a plastic behind the mid flipper, the mid right point. And so a ball can like go behind that flipper and it'll get captured in that lock. And that right now, the way we have it coded, you can steal that ball. Um stealing on the stairs was not in the code that we took to TPF but it is something that we're talking about and that we could do. I think it probably makes sense to make it a setting so that people get opted in or out of that for their game. But I mean, I think it would be fun. I TNA is one of my favorite games and like, you know, I love seeing that lock load up and then like they drain and I'm like, my turn. So ball stealing is a great thing and a lot of fun when you're playing multiplayer. So I'd be all for it and John Norris is on our team and works on all the rule sets for our games and so that would be something that I would, you know, work through with him and kind of see, make sure we get it all working just the way it would need to but definitely open to doing it and adding a setting in the game so that we could select that. It seems like this game's been so well received. Would you consider doing other spiritual successors to old Bally William games? I don't know. Um you know, this one came about kind of as a unique thing because Dennis had started working on it and really wanted to see it through. And so this one made a lot of sense. Um you know, I think there are a lot of people that are remaking games. Obviously that could be an option. Uh but I don't know. Like I think this was just kind of a special thing. I don't know that it it makes sense to do that with with other games. So Right place, right time kind of situation, huh? >> Yeah, I think so.
    44:27
    Yeah, I think so.
    44:27
    Yeah, I think so. I'll blame you. >> lot of with this game between Dennis and
    44:30
    lot of with this game between Dennis and
    44:30
    lot of with this game between Dennis and then, you know, Chris Granner. I It's just a neat story, the whole game. So how can we order it and what is what's the anticipated if people order today? How long is it going to wait take to get these things out to the market? Absolutely. Yeah, so you can order direct on our website, turnerpinball.com. You see the Yukon Yeti, click on that and there's a buy now button. Also, if you go to our website, we've got a a link for all our distributors. There's a page that lists all the folks that we work with. So if there's one of those guys that you are familiar with and like to work with, you're certainly welcome to do that. And then time frames. So um we're going to make 500 of these games and in our current shop, like our capacity is about a little over 200 a year. So that's like maybe 220 a year. And so like if we were in our current shop, it's going to take us two years to do this. We're in a new facility and I was just over there earlier this week. We're getting the the road in and then working on power and all of the other stuff that we need to do. We hope to be in that building by the end of the year. Obviously the the exact timing of that will impact the overall delivery of these units and so I've been telling people that it could be up to two years cuz that's our current capability in the current facility. But the sooner that we can get into the new one, we're going to be able to ramp up and expedite the delivery of all the games. And so that's a lot of my focus is just kind of making sure that that happens sooner than later. And it's going to be we talked about kind of this game being like the stepping stone, right? And this is part of that. So getting to the new facility and then being able to have this increased production capacity to finish out the build for Yukon Yeti and then proceed with future games. Awesome. Sounds like sounds like you guys are on the right track and everything's looking up. Well, thank you. Yeah, I mean, we've put a lot of work into building a foundation for the last three years. Um you know, we we went into this with a plan and a strategy of like kind of how to approach this and we've just been working through this kind of slow and controlled to make sure that we just, you know, didn't uh take on too much early on or, you know, start doing stuff where we didn't fully understand the problem we were solving and jump into it too quickly. So I feel like we've uh yeah, we've really built this strong foundation and and it's great. Um we love what we're doing. We're excited for what's coming. Awesome. Well, Chris, if you want someone to get a hold of you, what's the best way they can get a hold of you and Turner Pinball? Yeah, so just go to turnerpinball.com. Uh I am very reachable. Like if you fill in the contact form on the website, like it comes to my email so I'll be the one responding. If you call the number on the website, it like rings my cell phone. People do this all the time. They'll call and you know, they're like, I'll answer and I'm like, hey, this is Chris. How can I help you? And they're like, is this Chris Turner? And I was like, yes. They're like, whoa. Like, really? That's awesome. I'm glad Thank you for that. You just made my day but they're just surprised that like I answered the phone and I'm like, yeah, like this is how we do it. So >> [music]
    47:47
    [music]
    47:47
    [music] >> So yeah, pretty easy to get a hold of.
    47:49
    So yeah, pretty easy to get a hold of.
    47:49
    So yeah, pretty easy to get a hold of. Go to the website, email or call. That is awesome. So if you want to get a hold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast@gmail.com. We have all the socials which is @loser kid pinball if you're looking for us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. Doesn't matter what it is. You [music] can get a hold of us there. Silver ball swag if you want some of our t-shirts and whatnot. And right now we are doing a a poll on what is the greatest JJP game >> [music]
    48:15
    [music]
    48:15
    [music] >> of all time. Who's going to take home
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    of all time. Who's going to take home
    48:16
    of all time. Who's going to take home the crown? If you want to do that, go to our Patreon, patreon.com/loserkidpinball. And we are starting round two right now as we speak. So Scott, give us our final words. >> [music]
    48:27
    [music]
    48:27
    [music] >> You know what? Go play Yukon Yeti. I'm
    48:29
    You know what? Go play Yukon Yeti. I'm
    48:29
    You know what? Go play Yukon Yeti. I'm excited to play it in person and absolutely. And again, order it through Turner Pinball or Flippin' Out. So thanks again for listening.