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The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 54 Spring Thaw - When It Rains It Pours

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 26m·analyzed·Mar 29, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Spring tournament updates and first impressions on newly announced pinball games.

Summary

The Spinner Is Lit podcast discusses recent tournament results, personal pinball activities, and impressions of newly announced games from spring 2023. Hosts Spencer, Dan, and Mark share updates from their local scenes (Reno and Casper), celebrate tournament wins, discuss classic games they're acquiring and restoring, and deliver first impressions of The Godfather pinball machine from Jersey Jack Pinball. The episode captures the community's excitement about multiple game announcements during a busy news cycle.

Key Claims

  • Folsom section finals tournament held with David taking first, Rick from Elk Grove taking second, Thomas third, and Jeff winning B division

    high confidence · Dan reporting on tournament results from the previous night (March 18, 2023)

  • Press Start tournament in Reno hit 40-person capacity limit and had 33 people attend the most recent Saturday tournament

    high confidence · Mark discussing Reno tournament growth and attendance numbers

  • Spencer won first place in both Tuesday and Saturday tournaments, earning $160 total ($60 + $100)

    high confidence · Spencer reporting his tournament wins and prize money from Reno competitions

  • Dan and Adam acquired Genesis and Fireball 2 from Mike for their homes in Lodi

    high confidence · Dan and Spencer discussing recent game acquisitions

  • The Godfather is Eric Manier's third design title, following Pirates of the Caribbean and Guns N' Roses

    high confidence · Spencer introducing The Godfather game and attributing it to Eric Manier

  • The Godfather uses no tablet or cell phone-size screen on the playfield

    high confidence · Spencer noting design choice for The Godfather

  • Casper, Wyoming experienced the second-highest recorded snowfall since records began 120+ years ago in 2023

    high confidence · Spencer discussing weather in Casper for context on 'Spring Thaw' title

  • Jeffrey Starr is opening a new retail location featuring yak meat from Star Yak Ranch, makeup sales, and classic cars on display

    high confidence · Spencer describing Jeffrey Starr's upcoming business venture; Spencer mentioned attending sneak peek event

  • Reno's private league has 16-17 consistent participants playing on Thursdays and Saturdays

    high confidence · Mark describing the new private league format in Reno

Notable Quotes

  • “Bram Stoker's Dracula is the work of the devil.”

    Dan @ early in episode — Expresses frustration with the complexity of the mist multiball mechanism on his recently acquired Bram Stoker's Dracula machine

  • “We are hitting that 40-person limit... The tournament started at 630, and it was already full.”

    Mark @ mid-episode — Highlights explosive growth in Reno pinball tournament attendance and venue capacity challenges

  • “I was in the zone, and I was hitting those spinners when they were lit, each side, and it just racked up points.”

    Spencer @ during tournament recap — Describes winning Superman match with memorable second-ball performance scoring 700,000 points

  • “If you're a Godfather fan, this is a must-have, I think.”

    Spencer @ Godfather game discussion — Spencer's opening impression of Jersey Jack's Godfather machine

  • “Jersey Jacks just doing what they do best, which is putting out the most deluxe pinball experience.”

    Dan @ Godfather discussion — Dan's assessment of Jersey Jack's manufacturing approach and competitive positioning

  • “The gaudiness of the CE definitely fits with that Italian mantra in the Godfather time. So it works.”

    Mark @ Godfather analysis — Mark defending the over-the-top collector's edition aesthetic as thematically appropriate

  • “I'm still planting the seeds... slow but sure.”

    Spencer @ personal updates section — Spencer's philosophy on growing pinball community through personal outreach

  • “having the knockers go off that sound like machine guns, that will probably definitely make me wear earplugs when I play that game.”

    Mark @ Godfather sound design discussion — Mark noting the loud topper effects on The Godfather

Entities

SpencerpersonDanpersonMarkpersonEric ManierpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyJeffrey StarrpersonDavidpersonJimpersonKevinperson

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Reno's Press Start tournaments experiencing explosive growth with 33-person attendance at recent Saturday event, hitting venue 40-person capacity limit

    high · Mark: 'we are hitting that 40-person limit... every single time we have a tournament, there are new people... we had 33 people that attended this Saturday, which is the most we've ever had for a weekend tournament'

  • ?

    community_signal: Reno pinball scene expanding with new private league (16-17 players), consistent weekly tournaments, and growing attendance from founding community members

    high · Mark describing private league continuity with original players from Shabby Boutique era and current tournament participation

  • ?

    announcement: The Godfather pinball by Jersey Jack officially announced; designed by Eric Manier (third title after Pirates of the Caribbean and Guns N' Roses)

    high · Spencer: 'I'm going to start with The Godfather, which is the latest offering from Jersey Jack, and designed by Eric Muner. This is his, what, third title?'

  • ?

    design_innovation: The Godfather deliberately avoids tablet or cell phone-sized screens on playfield, contrasting with recent industry trends

    high · Spencer: 'I really, really, really appreciate the fact that they opted to not put a tablet screen or cell phone size screen anywhere in the play field'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack positioned as purveyor of 'most deluxe pinball experience' with elaborate mechanical toys, lighting, and toppers

    high · Dan: 'Jersey Jacks just doing what they do best, which is putting out the most deluxe pinball experience'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.440

0:00
Hey, welcome to the Spinners with Pinball Podcast. We're at episode 54, Spring, Fall. As always, I'm your host, Spencer, and it is Sunday, the 19th of March, 2023. And with me are my brothers from the Roundtable and co-host, Dan. Hey, what's going on, folks? And Mark. Hey, everybody. It's good to see that you're listening. Yeah, man. That's good to see and good to hear that people are actually listening.
0:51
So what's everybody been up to? So, Dan, what have you been up to since the last episode? So we just had the Folsom section finals last night. I posted about a little bit on the webpage, if anyone jumped on the webpage. I took fifth. I had a good run. I didn't feel too bad. I qualified seventh. The coordinator of Folsom, David, took first. So congratulations to him. Rick from Elk Grove Pinball took second. Thomas took third. And our buddy, Jeff, who has been on the show with us before, He finished first in the B division. So really, really good day. We played at Mike's house, of course. Tons of lovely games. And just, you know, a huge thanks, as always, to Mike and David, who run the section for putting it on. After that, I was working on Bram Stoker's Dracula, which is a truly confusing game. If anybody knows how to fix a missed multiball problem, hit me up. yeah I don't know maybe maybe Kevin possibly he knows every solution to every game so I think Brian and I are really close like I think that we've got it narrowed down to just the actual optos themselves you know we've we've checked the the 24 the the opto 24 board we're getting power everything else on the game works but you know you really want Miss Multiball to work. That's the piece de resistance for Bram Stoker. Totally agree with you on that. Absolutely.
2:31
Absolutely. It's a fantastic game and there's nothing more fun than having three different multi-balls going at once with a three-time scoring. It's not easy to do, but it is a real awesome accomplishment once you get that. I've never done it. I'll say that. I can do mist multiball. There's mist, there's castle, and there's coffin, right?

  • Dan has a P3 (Pinball Machines 3) coming and can purchase the Weird Al module for it

    high confidence · Spencer mentioning Dan's incoming P3 and module availability

    • “It looks like a real cross between Guns N' Roses and Pirates.”

    Dan @ Godfather closing thoughts — Dan comparing Godfather's design aesthetic to Eric Manier's previous Jersey Jack titles

  • “Spring thaw is very appropriate because it's like everything is frozen and now it's starting to thaw and all of a sudden this amazing news has come out with all these games.”

    Spencer @ episode title discussion — Explaining the metaphorical relevance of 'Spring Thaw' title to the flood of game announcements

    • Zach Maney
    person
    Carl D'Angeloperson
    The Godfathergame
    Bram Stoker's Draculagame
    Weird Algame
    Avengersgame
    Supermangame
    Genesisgame
    Fireball 2game
    Pinbotgame
    Golden State Pinballevent
    Press Startvenue
    Folsom section finalsevent
    Star Yak Ranchorganization
    Multimorphiccompany
    Reno pinball communityorganization
  • ?

    restoration_signal: Dan troubleshooting Bram Stoker's Dracula mist multiball mechanism; has narrowed issue to optos but awaits full disassembly to understand ball routing

    high · Dan: 'I think Brian and I are really close like I think that we've got it narrowed down to just the actual optos themselves... I haven't stripped the game yet, so I'll probably see it when I take the game apart'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Dan and Adam acquiring classic games (Genesis, Fireball 2) from Mike; maintaining 'youth game train rolling'

    high · Dan: 'Adam and I have acquired some games from Mike. So in Lodi, we're going to have Genesis now, and we're going to have Fireball 2'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Press Start Reno hitting hard 40-person capacity limit; tournament fills before start time; creating access challenges for new players

    high · Mark: 'I don't think Jim is going to go beyond that... when I came, I was too late, and I got there around 545... it was already full'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Eric Manier designed The Godfather with selectable houses offering varied multiball frequency, balancing depth with casual accessibility

    medium · Mark: 'it is a little on the multi-ball heavy side, but then when I listen carefully to the featurette, there is a way that you can pick houses that won't have as many multi-ball modes'

  • ?

    technology_signal: P3 (Multimorphic) platform allowing module purchases (e.g., Weird Al) at significantly lower cost than standalone game

    high · Spencer: 'I'm excited about that because you have a P3 that's coming, and now you can get that module. So I'm excited about that. And you can get it for a lot less than the cost of the whole game.'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Jeffrey Starr opening new retail location with yak meat sales, makeup, classic cars, and potential pinball machines (unconfirmed)

    medium · Spencer: 'he's going to sell his makeup. He's going to sell his yak meat... He's going to have his classic cars on display... I asked him, I said, hey, man... you're going to have machines there? And he's like, wait and see'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Reno private league experimenting with multiple formats (round robin, pin golf, head-to-head) to avoid rushing and improve experience

    high · Mark: 'we're going to try other formats and just experiment... it's nice because you're not rushing trying to get through all of the games just to get more points'

    • 2:58
    Yeah. Yep, that's right. I think I've played them all separately, but I don't think I've played them all together. And each time that you get another multiball in, you get another 10 million points added to your jackpot. So you can get the vaunted 30 million.
    3:14
    Oh, I love that. That's so cool. And then it's funny how the ball gets held. I think that is during Castle Multiball. And then you're shooting around like two balls, and then all of a sudden it launches it out from that hidden spot in the shooter lane, which just always freaks me out because I look at it and go, where did that ball come from? That's insane for a game from, what, 92, 93? And I don't know if anybody here has a Bram Stokers or has gotten under the hood on the Bram Stokers, but the game is just, there's so much more going on, not just on the play field, but above the play field and below the play field. There's passages behind all those little plastic houses. There's double subways. There's obviously the missed multi-ball mechanism. There's all sorts of weird little, like, nooks and crannies and places for the ball to hide. It is just a really, really sweet game. Well, that's great. Congratulations. Oh, thanks. I've wanted one for years, but I really just wanted one because of its reputation as an ass kicker. Like, I just, I like tough games, and when I finally got my hands on one, it was semi-working. In fact, the truth is it was working really nice once we diagnosed a 12-volt short. But this multi-ball has given me fits because I just don't know what it's supposed to look like. Does the ball start on the right and go to the left, go to the left, go to the right? How the heck does the ball even get in there? Like, what's going on with this machine? It's got voodoo and black magic.
    4:49
    That's true because you have to shoot it up into that hole, almost like a gobble hole. And then it all of a sudden misstarts once you shoot for that insert. And then somehow it ends up over on the left side, like you said, or it can end up on the right side. And I forgot, well, I got told by Brian. I got told how it starts on the left or on the right because there's actually a little trap door underneath the shooter lane that will, like, stage a ball up there. But, and I haven't stripped the game yet, so I'll probably see it when I take the game apart. I have no idea how the ball would get in that pocket on the right. There's a gate that holds it out if the mist is moving it over there, and I can't see any way for it to come in from above or below. So, obviously, mysteries will be solved as I turn screws, but right now I am convinced that Bram Stoker's Dracula is the work of the devil.
    5:51
    That's a very Osler game for what it's worth. Yes, which is one of the big reasons I wanted it, too. The only thing I even have that's close to an Osler game is Doctor Who, ever since I traded off Jackbot. And I really like to have a great example from all of the major designers. And Ourslur was one that I rarely seem to have one of his games.
    6:17
    So it's either this or, you know, maybe eventually I'll get my hands on a really nice space shuttle.
    6:24
    There you go. That's why I'm so glad I got another pinbot and a really, really nice pinbot. You know, because it's just such an amazing game, and it's an Orsler game. It's such a good, good game. And it's an ass-kicker, too. It is. It really is. You're kind of like we're doing Rachel. Yeah. It's just trying to get around the galaxy, you know, which can be done. I've done it, you know, but it's not easy. I'll tell you, when you get around the galaxy, when you get to Pluto, or is it the sun? I can't remember. Yeah, you start at Pluto. It's the sun. That is when you get mucho points. Yeah. Is when you get to that. But it's like it's such a dangerous shot to go for that right stand-up target to advance the planet. Yeah, and I've got my set pretty hard. So when you hit the first drop target or you hit a couple, you've got 15 seconds to get all three. Wow. Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah, so it's that or just running that left in lane and trying to make that shot. and not, like you said, not having to go down the right out lane or what's more common than that is coming straight down the middle, you know. And do you have a post in the middle? I do have the post. Right, in the game? Yeah. Yeah, Pinbot has a center post. Yeah. Which it needs because of the – It needs it. Yeah, often you get bad ejects out of the visor. You do. Well, you know, I get where, you know, in my old one, I don't get them too bad out of the advisor once in a blue moon. But my first one I used to get when they come out of the pop bumpers and it would just just rock it straight down the fucking metal, man. I'm like, you know, so but I have a pretty liberal tilt setting on it. I mean, you can you can shake it a little bit, you know, or the left saucer, too. That's another one that you have to be careful. And sometimes I depend on the post so it doesn't go drain down the middle. Yeah, yeah.
    8:30
    It's supposed to kill you from those spots, though. I don't think it's supposed to murder you out of the visor. No, I think you're right, man. You know, it's – Right. It's – oh, so I've been – because I was having issues with – and when – now I'm losing my train of thought. Anyway, so I was having issues with the subwoofer, and it was too much bass. I liked a lot of bass, so I got in there a while back, and I was adjusting it. So I finally got a nice mix with good treble, good high end, and good bass. Bass that bumps enough to where it almost feels like a shaker motor. So it's sounding really good. It's playing really good. And with that game, it's probably one of the most unique soundtracks for a game. Yeah. I don't know how I could reproduce, like, figuring out the notes in that song because it's just so wild. Yeah. But it did so well with the game. That's Chris Gwanner. right? I don't know. I've got right now. I've got some of Chris Grimswick. I think pin bot has one of the most iconic and just unbelievable soundtracks in a game. Like, I think it's just when I had jackpot and especially when people started coming up with like, you know, sound mods and pin sound and stuff like that. My wish was always just that somebody should just take jackpot and take out like the weird casino elevator music, sounding version of the pinball theme and just put the real pinball theme back in. That would be so badass. Yeah, totally agree with you. Yeah, it's Chris Brainerd. Yeah, and the high score music on it is unbelievable.
    10:08
    Yeah, it's so cool. It's so cool. It is. Well, yeah, and that's, you know, and not to get off topic, but we're way off topic already. We're way off topic, but that's okay. We should do a whole show dedicated to Barry. We really should. God rest his soul. he died too young. Yeah, he did. That was just such a... Kudos to Python, too, and God rest his soul, man, because him and Barry were just... They were quite a team back in the day. You know? They made some pretty cool games together. You know?
    10:46
    Anyway, we'll talk about more cool games before we get into that. Mark, you got anything else from last month? Yeah, we haven't talked about March time yet. Yeah. Yeah, well, we started a private league, which is really nice. So we're at private locations to play and no IFPA restrictions. Just let's try this format and play it. So we played like a round robin. We played pin golf. And we're going to try other formats and just experiment. But it was really a fun time because there's a lot of games to play. and we have consistent attendance from basically the people that are in our group are the ones that started getting the pinball community in Reno when we first had Mike have his games at Shabby Boutique, which was an antique shop, and in the back he had his games. And a lot of the people that attended that were at the beginning when pinball started getting popular in Reno. So it's kind of nice to have all the people. It's about 16, 17 people, and that's about it. But it's really a lot of fun to play the different formats and get to see everybody on a weekly basis. It's on Thursdays and Saturdays. And it's kind of confusing because it's like we do two in a row in the same week and then we don't do it the next week, which is kind of weird. But, yeah, it's like a Thursday and then it's a Saturday and it just switches off from that. That's wonderful. The tournament scene at Press Start is exploding. I'm kind of blown away by how many people are attending, and every single time we have a tournament, there are new people. And it's funny because they come back the next week, so it's not like they had a bad experience. They come back and they want to play more, and what's happening is we are hitting that 40-person limit. And I don't think Jim is going to go beyond that. In fact, when I came, I was too late, and I got there around 545. And the tournament started at 630, and it was already full. And it was kind of a bummer because it was the day before my birthday. I was really psyched to play some pinball and play competitively, and then it didn't work out. But somebody was gracious enough. Eric, shout out to you if you ever listen to our podcast. he gave up his spot and he was being honest because he said well I really wasn't here yet and I just reserved the spot and you really got here physically before me so you can play good integrity really awesome guy and he let me play and I had a blast and it was nice otherwise I was going to be sad going home and not being able to play but that's what the problem we're having we are having a good problem we are having tons of players show up in the weekend we had We had 33 people that attended this Saturday, which is the most we've ever had for a weekend tournament. And it was a flip frenzy type of format, but it was adjusted by playing 20 rounds head-to-head against one other person. And then basically you get randomly picked with another person who hasn't played you before. and it's nice because you're not rushing trying to get through all of the games just to get more points. So you know you're set with 20 rounds, and then we had a playoff. And I'm happy to say that on the Tuesday night and the Saturday night that I was able to take first. Taking home some money. In the tournament. I took some good money, $100 on Saturday and $60 on Tuesday. So I made $160. I'll take my $20 cut of each the next time I see you.
    14:44
    Yeah, definitely. Moral support is worth something. Absolutely. Well, you did, and you encouraged me, and I played really well. I really did an interesting strategy. I decided to defer instead of pick a game, which I didn't realize it, but Ted was the next one on the list, and, of course, he picked Avengers because he owns that game and he knows the rules inside and out. And I lucked out, and he just did not have that good a ball, and I was able to start the multi-ball with the Thor multi-ball, and then I think I also started the Iron Man, I think, multi-ball. So that helped me get in there, and it was great. And then we had our next round, which was the final four, and I deferred again and it was Brad and he picked Superman, which he loves that game. And he would blew it up on the first ball. He had like over 300,000 and I was like, this is not good. I'm not going to be able to pull this off. I had my ball. I of course picked last and my first ball was pretty much drained right down the middle or maybe it was on the side. I can't remember, but I know it was fast and I had like 12,000 points. So I was thinking, oh my gosh, what is going to happen here. So my second ball, I don't know what happened, but I was in the zone, and I was hitting those spinners when they were lit, each side, and it just racked up points. I was able to get one, two, three, four, so I had three times scoring, and I was able to come up with 700,000 points in my second ball.
    16:29
    So, yeah, it was pretty awesome. That's the heck of a ball. So, yeah, it was pretty epic. And that got me the first place. I still love playing that game. I loved playing that game back in the day when it was new. I still love playing that game. It's such a good game, and it's so much more fun when you have stronger flippers. If you have the weak ones that are stock, it's not nearly as fun. But when Jim and Kevin obviously ramped up the power on those, it's really a fun game. But I tell you one thing, if you shoot with the right flipper and you hit the standard targets, you're guaranteed to have it go in the right out lane. It's coming back. Yeah. So anyway, it's really fun. The Reno scene is great. New players, exciting, and people are just having fun.
    17:20
    So that's pretty much what has been happening. Yeah. That's awesome. And we're really supporting you guys, you know, as much as we can, just sort of reporting on your exploits on the Facebooks and just, you know, throwing all the love in the world out to Jim for doing all the work and for you guys for getting out there and playing every week and having tournaments every month. And the more people who are playing, the better and stronger pinball is going to get.
    17:47
    That's right. And I know you're a fan of Weird Al. I'll tell you something. I played that like 10 games in a row. That game is a blast. So when it comes to your house, Dan, you're going to really have a good time playing it. I got to spend a good amount of time, a whole day on it at Jason Fessler's. He just got his.
    18:04
    Oh, good. I really enjoyed it. Got to get into the menus, got to play around with what the P3 is all about. Yeah, not only is Weird Al a super cool game, but we're going to talk later on about, gosh, I always screw up the name, Final Resistance. whatever the new Denise game is, and that looks great. Yes, we'll talk about that in just a few here. Oh, I was just going to say, I'm just excited for you because you have a P3 that's coming, and now you can get that module. So I'm excited about that. And you can get it for a lot less than the cost of the whole game. Exactly. Not a whole used game. Oh, actually, most used games these days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, true. Oh, speaking of used games, this is kind of cutting back, But Adam and I have acquired some games from Mike. So in Lodi, we're going to have Genesis now, and we're going to have Fireball 2.
    19:05
    Nice. Awesome. So we're keeping the youth game train rolling here in the Dan and the Adams houses. That's awesome. Well, and those are both great classic games, two of my favorites, actually. Dude, I'm loving Fireball 2, man. Isn't that a great game? That's just drop targets and that crazy center bumper and, you know, Odin and Wotan and just everything that you want. I've never played a Fireball 2. It's a fun game. You'll get your chance. Yeah, there you go. That's awesome. You'll probably make it to Golden State with us. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. I can't wait until that's happening soon. 61 days.
    19:49
    Yeah. Well, you guys have got a lot going because, you know, you're in an established area as well, especially now, Mark, you've really helped get Reno established. Spencer, what have you been up to?
    20:01
    Yeah, what have you been up to? Getting things ready for Golden State. We're going to do a two-day drive each way this year instead of doing it one day. So I booked our hotels for the trip out and the trip back, booked our campsite, ordered our T-shirts, our official Camp Silver Ball T-shirts that you can only get if you're camping at Camp Silver Ball.
    20:26
    Pinball-wise, not a whole lot, but I'm still planting the seeds. Got a coworker going to go in for back surgery here on the, like, 28th. So next Saturday I'm going to have a few coworkers over for a little pinball get-together. I've had my doctor over a couple more times. He has a son and a daughter both attending universities. His daughter's attending University of Wyoming. His son's back where they originally came from in Kansas. And they were both at different weeks, but I had them over. And I turned them on to pinball map.
    21:00
    They're both into pinball. They both like it. So they're like, oh, okay. I said, so wherever you are, you know, you're in a college town. You should have locations. Here you go. and, you know, we taught games and they knew the names of, like, 90s Bally Williams games. I'm like, oh, that's cool. You know that game? And, you know, I was like, well, here, listen to our podcast. And here, here's Pinball Map. And so I kind of planted the seeds there, you know, slow but sure. You know, it's an uphill battle just because, you know, like, during my day at my job, I literally talk to more wildlife and animals than I do people. So, I mean, that's not a joke either. I mean, I have dogs and deer and antelope, and I even have a donkey that I feed dog biscuits to and talk to on my route at my job. So, yeah.
    21:47
    And my friend the donkey, he's not really into pinball, but he likes milk boats. But that's what I've been doing. So I'm getting ready for the show, and, you know, it's spring's tomorrow.
    21:58
    You know, I've got the chickens going. We've got baby ducks now. I've got our garden plants They're growing I've got a little greenhouse set up Because I can't let them outside It's still too cold So that's what I've been doing Besides pinball But I'm still planting seeds Kind of like the Johnny Appleseed Or Casper pinball So I'm planting seeds and getting stuff going And slowly but surely We'll get something cooked up Have you heard anything from Jeffrey Starr at all? I have not He opened, he had a semi-early sneak peek land opening in his new store Saturday. And Saturday I had to work half the day, and then there was a home and garden show.
    22:44
    And so Russ and I went in that, and the boys had a friend's birthday party. And then we hung out with adults after the home and garden show at the kids' birthday party and just talked and, you know, like that. So I didn't get a chance to get over there. But because, you know, when he's talking about opening, Jeffrey starts opening a place in town. He's going to sell his makeup. He's going to sell his yak meat. I've been out and I've seen his yak ranch. He's got a ton of yak. And he sells to local restaurants and stuff now. And so he's got that going. So he's going to have his yak meat for sale from Star Yak Ranch. He's going to sell his makeup. He's going to have his classic cars on display. And I asked him, I said, hey, man, I'm all ready to start a, you know, get a pinball league and some tournaments going. You're going to have machines there? And he's like, wait and see, which is kind of like vague. But, you know, Jeffrey Starr is an interesting individual. So, but I'll hit him up shortly and we'll see what's going on. That's awesome. So you are communicating with him now. Yeah, from time to time, you know. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, he responds back, you know, and he's like, okay, cool, you know. But, I mean, I don't want to push it, but, you know, hopefully soon. No, no, of course not. He's looking to play. I'll see something going, and I'll reach out and go, all right, man, I'm ready to get some stuff going. How about you? You know, let's do a league or let's start out with a tournament, you know, and, you know, kind of get it going, get the media out there. That could be a pinnacle of change as far as, you know, having location play if he's open to that. So that's great. Well, because he's got a lot of games, and I don't know what he's doing with them or where he hides them. But, you know, I mean, I think he might be – because I mean, it's part of who he is, you know, the flamboyant character that he is. Right. I'm glad we didn't squirreled away on a sprawling Wyoming compound.
    24:41
    Yes, probably. It could be, you know, in the big pink barn. So, no, I'm not joking. It's really pink. I guess so is the building. So, anyway, man, hey, you know, good for him. we have so much new stuff to talk about there's a ton of new stuff going on you know what's funny is your episode title which I don't know if you mentioned in the beginning was Spring Thaw you're thinking man it could have been When It Rains It Pours you know we can change it I used to like to do I like Spring Thaw No, no, no, I'm just saying, man, you know, what a crazy last week or so that we've had for announcements.
    25:23
    Yeah, and you know what? Spring thaw is very appropriate because it's like everything is frozen and now it's starting to thaw and all of a sudden this amazing news has come out with all these games. Yeah, well, it's a double entendre too because right now we're set for 2023. three, we're set as far as record keeping goes.
    25:46
    Second, all-time highest amount of snow we've had in Casper since they started keeping records 120 plus years ago.
    25:54
    You guys in NorCal and northern Nevada have beat us like by five, six times the amount of snow. So it's like, you know, when you guys are like, hey, hey, you're liking that winter, it's like, well, you guys should be saying, hold my beer, fuckers, you know. It's like, it's warm and toasty here now, and all the snows melt, Ma. So, you know. And, no, I didn't send that weather here on purpose. No, but before we get into that, no, Danny, you bring up a good point, and I used to do it a lot. I don't do it really anymore, but I used to like to do, like, the two titles, like people rocking on Bullwinkle. So, you know, Spring Faw or When It Rains It Pours would be an even more, you know. That's what I was getting to is like, you know, because both points are true. We're getting a lot of news after a relatively calm period of no news, but also just so many game announcements. And usually, you know, we're not trying to report the news. Like we know that you guys know everything that's coming out and you've watched all the same podcasts and heard all the same, you know, rumors and read all the same nap arcade, you know, and pinball news. we just want to kind of throw some impressions out there of what we've thought so far, and Spencer's come up with a novel format for us to do that in. Yeah, we're just going to do a quick first impression on each game, and we're going to go in order, and I'm going to start it. So I'm going to start with The Godfather, which is the latest offering from Jersey Jack, and designed by Eric Muner. This is his, what, third title? Probably started out with Pirates of the Caribbean and then Guns and Roses. First thoughts. If you know the movie franchise, you know the game. Two things I really like, just looking at it, some new and inventive shots, the way the ball returns to the flipper on the ramp returns. I like the mechanical toys. I love mechanical toys. And I really, really, really appreciate the fact that they opted to not put a tablet screen or cell phone size screen anywhere in the play field. So if you're a Godfather fan, this is a must-have, I think. I'm waiting to see more, you know, gameplay and play it.
    28:15
    You know, I think it looks like it's really going to be a lot of fun to play and a lot of fun to shoot.
    28:22
    It's not my first choice for a theme for myself, but I get why other people are really excited about it. And it's new pinball, so that's exciting to me. So, Dan, what are your thoughts? I was surprised. Like, I knew the rumors were Godfather, and, you know, it felt big and iconic enough to have really happened. But I had no vision in my head for how they would make this game look good in the pinball world. And I should have, you know, when I found out that it was Franchion, I should have just had a lot of faith because I think that game looks gorgeous. I think the collector's edition is a little overdone, but I think that the art's fantastic and I think that the style is perfect it's got that Jersey Jack kind of pseudo overstuffed like a whole lot going on look and you got a big toy gangster shooting at ya the art's great the cabinet looks great watch the stream of boy I just blanked on his name But he beats the crap out of the games on his stream, does a really, really good job on them. Carl D'Angelo. I watched Carl D'Angelo's stream, and I was, you know, really delighted with how it played. It looks a little too similar to two games that I already own for me to be like, hey, I want to come up with $12,000 for this, plus I'm still waiting on my Weird Al. but if I had the money burning hole in my pocket today, I would be all over the Godfather. Nice. Yeah, I can see that. One more thing that you mentioned, like I'm really impressed with the pop bumper that looks like a fountain. Very impressed with a little touch. Yeah, the plastics on this game are great. You know, you've got the little sculpt of Brando. you've got the fountain which apparently has like 70 LEDs to it and just does all sorts of cool fancy effects you got the gangster shooting they got the really fancy topper with like the car sticking out of it and the gangsters popping up and shooting it's got animation and great lighting and if you're into that kind of thing it's got those weird gaudy like lion hangover things on the legs but I don't go for that But I just think that this is just Jersey Jacks just doing what they do best, which is putting out the most deluxe pinball experience, maybe the most deluxe pinball experience, because there's a new competitor in the ring apparently, but just putting out the most deluxe pinball experience that you can get. I agree. Mark, thoughts? So my thoughts of Godfather, when I first saw it revealed, is it is a gorgeous game. The use of the reds, the blacks, the gold fit perfectly with the movie. The theme and the thought that went into it, you could really tell. Hats off to Zach Maney putting together that featurette. It really helped understand what thought went into it, what process was done, and having all those connections of being able to bring in all these great people and artists to put this game together was a really neat opportunity for them, and it really adds a lot of personality to the game. I really am impressed with the flow of the shots. It seems like there's a lot of shots on it. It looks like, again, it's a little on the multi-ball heavy side, but then when I listen carefully to the featurette, there is a way that you can pick houses that won't have as many multi-ball modes. So Eric definitely thought about that. He's very articulate and really thinks things through, and it is a gorgeous game. I did see a little bit of the gameplay also from Carl from IE Pinball, and it seemed like he was having fun, and that is a good indicator to see if this game is too much a wood shopping experience or not, and it didn't seem like that on his stream. So I was really impressed with that. The gaudiness of the CE definitely fits with that Italian mantra in the Godfather time. So it works. That is how it is when you walk into a home like that of a mobster. It's all just total gaudy, rich-looking kind of thing. So it fits. It's over the top. And often takes the place. Yeah, thank you. That's the right word. Thank you. Well, if it's the theme, which is Art Deco, because it starts out, well, actually, the 1940s. Art Deco, yes. Yeah. The details of the sculpts are really nice, and the fountain, like you said, Spencer, is a nice touch to it. It's just all around the game, just an amazing world under glass.
    33:34
    And the topper, you can't beat. I mean, having the knockers go off that sound like machine guns, that will probably definitely make me wear earplugs when I play that game. But, wow, neat experience from what I'm seeing, and I'm pretty impressed with that game. The only thing, like I said, is just the rules. I don't know what to expect from that, so I have to play it. But first impressions, Jersey Jack nailed it again.
    34:02
    Okay, cool. It looks like a real cross between Guns N' Roses and Pirates. Like, I think that's what Carl was saying, and it seemed to me like that's kind of what Kiefer was going for.
    34:15
    Like, you're going to have that same risk versus reward. You know, you can cash out or bet it and go on, and you're going to have a lot of qualifiers and setups, but it looks like the mode structure is going to be a little bit more traditional than the Guns N' Roses songs are. And to add on to what you're saying, Dan, the modes that you can see are very similar to either Wizard of Oz or even Hobbit, where it has the quadrants of the objectives that you need to meet with the stained glass motif that he came up with, which I think is clever. And we all know that Jersey Jack's animation and graphics are just amazing and well put together to go with the game. Their display work is second to none. Yeah, absolutely.
    35:10
    Yeah, no, wishing much success. It's really funny because I'm looking at the list, and we have three games coming out. almost at the same time from three young, new, hot gunslinging designers, which leads me to the next one, Foo Fighters, released offering from the 800-pound gorilla pinball company, Stern Pinball. The house of Stern. Got to love those boys and girls over there. They do awesome work. Jack Danger's second actual game design in production. His first real game design. First full-fledged game. Well, second, yeah, because the second game. Because Jurassic was just him reworking the kind of standard stern home. Home brew. Yeah, home brew. This is his first ground-up and cornerstone design. First cornerstone game. There we go. Yeah.
    36:14
    But, you know, he got a lot of accolades. I haven't played the Jurassic Park home game, but he's got a lot of accolades for that. But my first thoughts, boom, Foo Fighters, cool band.
    36:25
    There I like them and I like their music. I'm not really, really into them because it's a little later in my life. You know, I go back to the days of, you know, Kiss and Ted Nugent and Van Halen.
    36:38
    But you know I mean I like the music I like the fact that they didn just go here a band It like Oh Hey they tell a story and they doing something They having an adventure and they have a van Everybody should, um, solving mysteries, fighting aliens, finding monsters. I love, love, love, love all the little, like not one huge toy or gimmick, but a bunch of cool little ones like, Oh, I've never seen that before. Little, cool little things that little tricks and little, little gizmos that the ball's doing on the play field. And I really, really, really love and want to kiss you full on the lips, Mr. Danger, and whoever did the art for the game for giving a huge fuck you to some other people that don't deserve to be anywhere near the pinball community. We know who they are. So looking forward to playing it.
    37:29
    So if you guys didn't see the similarities from the word go, no, we all did. I'm like, I wonder if anybody else has noticed that. looked on the internet. Yep, they know this.
    37:40
    What am I missing here? I have no idea where you're going with this. The artwork. What about it? Oh, it's, okay, with the big alien boss in the center of the play field.
    37:53
    Uh-huh. I see where you're getting at. I know. I'm by law. Are you really? Okay. It's the name that shall not be named. Yeah, it's like the building. political thing? No, no, no. It's the J-flop game that never materialized. Oh, you're saying you think it looks like Raza? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Except original and not stolen. Only that it looks like somebody threw up on it. Lots of purple.
    38:26
    Lots of purple. And you know what? They're not the only game to do that. Okay. No, but I could not be happier for the Stern team and for Jack Danger. This looks really exciting The ball doing some really cool creative things Again, good to see some new fresh blood And pinball with some new ideas Certainly don't want to take anything away from The old guard Because they're doing us so much And they continue to give us great games And I love them all But it's nice to see some young folks Coming in and doing something really neat and new Look forward to playing it I like everything about it. It looks good, and I look forward to it. So I'm going to pass the torch to you, Dan, and let you go on this one. All right. I'm glad you did, too, because, first of all, I just want to say it could be that the art is a dig because it is Zombie Yeti, and Zombie Yeti does have a history with J-Pop. But I seriously doubt it. That's not his style. That's not their style. And, I mean, why? Why would you even poke the bear? You know, you've won that war.
    39:38
    Going back to actually to talk about Foo Fighters, once again, I'm not, you know, I'm kind of a Spencer. Foo Fighters aren't really before my time. They're probably a band that I should really be into. I just never really hooked up with. I know a couple of their songs. Don't hate them. I don't love them.
    39:58
    That said, it is a very interesting use of the theme. It's got a lot of elements going into it, a lot of the stuff that I think that Jack Danger really likes and that the Foo Fighters probably really like have gotten to be thrown in there. You've got some Voltron. You've got some Scooby-Doo. It looks really, really novel.
    40:15
    The game itself looks fun, and for a guy's freshman design, I think it speaks to kind of what you're saying about the old guard. It's not that Jack's really doing anything different. It's that he is surrounded by the best talent in the world of pinball. He's got the Keith Elwins. He's got the George Gomez's, the Brian Eddy's. Like, they're going to help this new guy put out just a wonderful design for his first game. And I bet you that it shoots like a dream, and it just looked fun as heck. You know, and Jack Danger, for anyone who's watched his podcasts or his streams, you know the dude's going to bring the weird. So the in-lane targets, awesome. The little loop-de-loops are great. The dead post is genius because that's going to make everybody feel like a pinball all-star when all they do is pop up that flipper and the ball shoots back into play. And for just such a simple, stupid feature like, oh, man, you saw that in action, and you're just like, oh, it does a death save for you. That's dope. Yeah, without breaking your wrist. I know the art. Or breaking the machine. Yeah, you don't have to break your wrist or the game. I know everybody loves Zombie Yeti. I don't really think it's the best art package I've ever seen. It's detailed, and it's got a style, and it's very, very colorful. It's just way, way too busy. They needed to really take an eraser to the playfield. Cabinet's fine. The back glass is fine. I think the playfield needed a little more focus. It's really hard for me to tell what's going on. I felt like that about the last few of Zombie Yeti's art packages, though, and the games keep selling, so, you know, who am I to argue against what works? But I think that Foo Fighters, yeah, it's going to be another big hit from the House of Stern. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, you and I talked a few days ago about the art, and we both kind of agreed, yeah, it's a little busy. It's probably just a younger person's art. You know, like I'm not trying to sound like an old fuddy-duddy or anything, but, yeah, just for me, it's like, wow, I just kind of preferred. And I know a few years ago, Steve Ritchie, you know, was talking about how he wants people to be able to track the balls on his play field, So he's not making these incredibly busy, you know, play fields. He wants the play field to be very, very clean. And everybody's just like, ah, his play fields look like crap. Star Trek look like crap. Game of Thrones look like crap. But, you know, playability above all, especially if you don't really love the theme. If you really love the theme, it's easy to look past all that clutter. It's like, oh, it's important because of this and that. But if you're not really, really into the theme, it's just sort of like, wow, there's some guys and there's aliens and there's cars flying around and pieces of a robot and 15,000 different colors. I mean, it catches the eye. It catches the eye and that's what it's supposed to do. Art sells games. I believe that with all my heart. I hate having ugly games. I do have some ugly games, but I think art sells games. And so you can't blame Stern for sticking to their guns and doing what works. Zombie Yeti works. I've got a couple Zombie Yeti games. I love the art.
    43:47
    I just think that ever since probably, I thought Godzilla was kind of tacky looking and everybody thinks I'm out of my mind. I didn't think Avengers was great. I thought Turtles was okay. It looked like it was supposed to look. But they all just looked a little too colorful and a little too busy to me. That's a fair assessment. Mark, what are your thoughts on all this? So my thoughts on Foo Fighters is It looks like a flow monster, and I love flowy games. So, yes, I'm a fan of Steve Ritchie, and I don't know, maybe he will be the next king of flow because that game really has a nice path where the ball can go in different directions but keep it going smoothly. The jump aspect with the diverter and how you can actually fly the ball in the air is really a neat idea because he took it from the Jurassic Park jump ramp and he incorporated it into the game. So it makes me happy because it's like he didn't leave something out that I wish I could play on location somewhere. And we know that Foo Fighters is going to be all over the place. As far as the band goes, I'm with Dan. I'm not a huge fan of the Foo Fighters. I don't hate them, but their music, I'm not into it. But what I can say is the music fits perfectly with the game because it's very high energetic, and it's really amazing how that driving type of music fits really well with that kind of game. and I love the animations.
    45:35
    It's better than what Aerosmith was. It's got that Saturday morning cartoon feel, which is what they were going for. It just looks like a lot of fun to play. We have two that are coming, I think Torino, if I'm not mistaken, and I can't wait to play it because the objectives look great, the rules are nice because it's like you've got to build this robot or you have to do these different kinds of modes, and it seems like it will be a nice game to just walk up to and figure it out instead of having to have a rule sheet that is like a novel, like Jersey Jack games. but I'm really excited to see I want to get my hands on this and I know that at Golden State they're going to probably have like 10 of them to play and I know it's going to be a hit it just looks like a great game and hats off to Jack for designing a game that looks really fun to shoot and I'm sure he's probably a fan of Foo Fighters so it fits perfectly with his generation but yeah That's a little newer music.
    46:50
    And as far as the artwork goes, it has that Deadpool vibe to me. It's very colorful, busy. I like that kind of artwork, but I do agree with Dan that it can be a little too much when you're trying to focus on what kind of shots to make, when you have all this other artwork that's surrounding those inserts. but sometimes pictures fool you and it looks amazing in person and I'm just going to take it for the benefit of the doubt that it's going to just blow me away when I see it and actually play it and I don't know if there's any on location now but I'm impressed and Jack nailed it and I just can't wait to see people with their grins on their faces playing this game because it's just like it's a party game it has that party atmosphere and I can't wait. Mark, you know, I agree with you on all things. I vehemently disagree with you that Jack Danger is a fan of the Foo Fighters.
    47:51
    Yeah, I think so. Okay. First of all, I'm sure that he likes them fine, especially now. But I remember he used to play a lot of music on his streams and I don't remember playing any Foo Fighters.
    48:03
    Interesting. Okay. I think his music is a little more eclectic and the Foo Fighters are very much like the corporate standard for rock.
    48:16
    Mm-hmm. Right. Just saying. Right. And that's not why I don't like the Foo Fighters. I think that their music is perfectly acceptable. It just, you know, I'm a little... We're not into it. You're on my funny phone. I think I remember reading in an interview that, like, even Dave Grohl didn't think that the Foo Fighters were going to be as big a deal as they ended up being or he would have chosen a better name.
    48:40
    It was just another thing he was doing and they ended up becoming a big, big hit. But there's no doubt that it's a popular band and it does have some generational appeal. So hopefully it'll get people off of the dad rock train where people are just pissed off that they're pushing 50-year-olds what we want.
    49:01
    They don't all need to be my band. I've got my Metallica. I've got my Guns N' Roses. I've got my ACDC, you know, I'm getting my weird, I'm getting my weird house. So, geez, you know, how mad can I be? If I want music, I'm, you know, it's an embarrassment of riches.
    49:19
    Yeah. It is nice to have the 90s represented. Yeah. Because it will appeal to those younger generation. That's what, 10 years younger than us. But imagine if they had done Nirvana.
    49:34
    Oh, gosh. Yeah. I'm kidding. We probably should have done more of it. People would have lost their minds. A very strict subset of people, mind you. But, yeah, that would have been huge. Well, I think my prediction is this game is going to sell, because of the gameplay, more than the theme. That's just my opinion. But we'll see. Theme and art, baby. People don't care how games play anymore.
    50:03
    I still do a little bit. But, well, you know what? Absolutely. Well, now we're kind of flipping this on its, flipping all this on its ear. You know, I used to always say that, you know, everybody says they want an original unlicensed thing, but they really don't. And I attended that a few months ago, or a year ago, with a couple of unlicensed things that have done really well and people really liked. And that was, well, the first one was Total Nuclear Annihilation, because it's a great game. And people then, you know, it's very well received. And then originally from Riot Pinball, from American Pinball Manufacturing, we had Valhalla. Valhalla, Legends of Valhalla. Again, very well-received game, original unlicensed theme. And now it kind of got put on full circle because the gentleman, another young gun designer, his second full production design, Scott Denisi, who his first came over Spooky, Total Neutral Annihilation, now he's over at oh, he's not in the American Club, my mistake, I'm sorry I thought you were going for Nordman and Gluck you know what, because they both have I didn't mix up my intro, I fucked up, but nonetheless Well, he's over at another company He's over at P3 Multimorphic The wonderful folks that have brought us Great titles like Heist And Weird Al Weird Al's Museum Of Natural Energy And all those other things Yeah, yeah Caron Lagoon Cosmic Cart Racing That cool baseball game I forget what it's called Baseball Mart or something Anyway, yeah, so he's got His latest title out, which is an original unlicensed theme, which is called Final Resistance, which I don't think it's actually a sequel, but it has some similarities maybe, but it looks really cool. And it's a multimorphic. If you know anything about the P3 multimorphic platform that's a modular platform, you can pull out one game and snap another one in in just a few minutes and be going with a brand new game. I don't know a lot about this one yet. I've just seen a little tiny bit of gameplay video and some screenshots.
    52:30
    But I know, you know, Scott Denise's reputation in the community, another guy who started out just building a homebrew that he had an idea for and thought this might be fun, and it really took off. So I got to see more on it. But, you know, just the first impression looks really cool, and I'm really excited to play it. Everything Multimorphic comes out with, I really seem to like and enjoy. The only thing that stops me is just the price point, you know, because it's just not in my wheelhouse right now. It's $3,500, buddy. You can't get a cheaper pinball. Well, you can't, but you've got to have the whole system already to plug that into, which you have to start off with a $9,000 game to plug it into. Yeah, you will have that very soon. But, Dan, since you actually ordered up a Weird Al, Are you going to have a platform? What do you think?
    53:22
    So I think Final Resistance looks really cool, but I bet you that I think it looks really cool for reasons that you might not expect. I think Final Resistance looks really cool because it looks like it's going to be the most traditional pinball experience that you can have on a P3.
    53:43
    And if you listen to the interview that Denise did with Buffalo, I think that's what he set out to do. He wanted to show people that it's like, hey, it's not all cartoons and animations,
    53:55
    that the P3 is real pinball, you know, with real flippers and real targets. And, you know, he wants it to look like, and I don't think that you can kind of fool yourself and not look at the playfield screen with the arrows and everything and not think he was going for like an Attack from Mars sort of vibe. which I've been saying to anyone who will listen for months, man, if P3 really wanted to do something cool, they should get a license and make an attack from Mars module.
    54:28
    And, you know, people will immediately start paying attention because it's a known quantity. It's a license. Scott Denisey among pinheads just himself now is a known quantity, right? Everybody loved TNA or at least everybody, you know, like some stuff about TNA. You know, Rick and Morty.
    54:51
    It's a little infamous, right? Great theming. Maybe a little sketchier on the gameplay side than some people expected, but awesome, awesome music. Denise is a music guy. I don't think this has – I don't think this is a sequel to TNA, but, yeah, you'd be high if you don't see that there's a lineage there. Maybe TNA is, you know, a spooky property, and so he's not going to say it's TNA 2. But, yeah, it's awful hard not to look at this and say, oh, yeah, he's going for that sort of, you know, that TNA futuristic, you know, resistance, rebellion kind of thing. The problem I have with Final Resistance so far, I just really want to call it Final Destination. That's what I say, too. I say the same thing. I said Final Destination. I said Final Restitution.
    55:50
    I'm like, Final something. Final Fantasy? But I do feel like if I was not getting Weird Al, I don't think this would sell me a P3. But I actually, looking at the trailer and everything, I think if you have your P3 all kitted out as a final resistance it's definitely the coolest looking P3 yet so yeah I think it's cool I'll almost undoubtedly end up with one you know I completely forgot about Rick and Morty because I was going with the oh okay because I got for some reason I got the two mixed up the next one we're going to talk about but yeah that's another one and you bring up so many good points Another good point is the light shows that Denise does. Like, he does stuff with the light, and you just go, how in the hell did you figure that out? You know, so I'm really excited to see this one in action, you know, up close and personal. So, Mark, what are you thinking? So my impressions of Final Resistance is, once again, it looks like a TNA 2.0 on steroids because instead of having one ball shoot out of a scoop, there's three balls that fire at you, which is pretty cool. It's not coming out of a scoop, but it's coming out of a really interesting mech that he designed.
    57:13
    The other impression I had is finally they got it right. Scott said, hey, why don't we have inserts that say static on the screen so you know what you're shooting at instead of all of this other animation from the other games where you have no clue what's going on. So having that consistency makes it look like a full play field rather than just a video screen in the middle. So I'm really excited about that. The rules sound really fun, and you cannot disagree with how awesome his music is. His music, I'm hearing right now, the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's already in my head. It's such a great, energizing soundtrack. and it's like I love his music. I love from TNA, and now I can't wait to hear it on Final Resistance. I almost wrote Destination 2. That's so funny. Mark, you said earlier on that you'd spend some time on Weird Al, right?
    58:12
    Yes. So you'll kind of know where I'm going and kind of what you're saying about the inserts, why it's important. Yeah, Weird Al has that museum sort of like the generic backdrop, you know, that'll animate and it'll change and everything. but when you're changing modes what it does is it gives you these little icons that's right pointy then it'll have a pointy coming from the upper arrow when you're supposed to use the upper arrow and i'll have a pointy with like a little symbol when like you can lock a ball there and yeah it's it's not traditional you know it's different i think it's why a lot of people have that very much like ah it's video pinball and i think that final destination uh See, I just said the wrong thing, right? Final resistance.
    58:54
    I think final resistance will do a lot to address that because, again, I think it's going to revolutionize not just, you know, I think how people see P3, but how the next P3 designer steps up and makes their game. You know what I'm waiting to see? We have no P3s in Reno except at press start, and it's just not getting the love. We're not getting good coin drop from Weird Al for some reason. I don't know if it's just because there have been issues with it that we still are trying to fix, but it's just not getting the coin drop that we want.
    59:35
    But maybe this final resistance might be more, I don't know, convincing of going with a P3 platform. I don't know. Not to make myself sound like a dork here, but I am. You know, you don't think that Weird Al is the theme that the cool kids are flocking to these days? I don't know.
    59:59
    And it's cool because it actually has some R&B in it, which most pinball games don't have that at all. Oh, like the hip-hop songs? Yes, it's a parody.
    60:08
    Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, it has being able to take that game out, right? yeah exactly well I mean with that final resistance it's like okay I'm in the mood to play a Scott Denise game and you can just take it out like in less than two minutes and boom you got a new game so I don't know it just looks like it it really looks fun the artwork definitely has that retro vibe he loves 80s you can tell and uh I can't wait to play that one too I mean it's just yeah It just looks super fun, and I love TNA. I love that game. And seeing something with more mechs and more a storyline to go with it, it's going to be awesome. More than like TNA, the play field reminds me of like No Fear.
    61:00
    Like it's got a lot of U-turns. It throws the ball right back at you a lot. It's got the kickback. It's got the Star Trek ship-firing thing. And this looks to me like Scott D'Anisi decided to channel his inner Steve Ritchie and just really, really whoop your ass. Yeah.
    61:20
    I hope it's at Golden State. I hope we get to play it because usually P3 is always there. So we'll see. Knock on wood. Yeah.
    61:31
    It's a special subset of pinballers, but I think that the P3 fans, you know, this is going to be a good one. Yes. Agreed. Hopefully we get to play everything that's on our list tonight soon. That, you know, it's going to come out, it's going to be to show, it's going to be on location. Real quick, before we move on from P3, I know this is kind of breaking our format. Did you guys see that somebody did a third-party P3 game? Yeah.
    62:01
    Did we talk about that? What was it called? Are you talking about Drained? I heard that game is awesome. I don't know. I think the art looks terrible. But, again, you know, thinking about what the P3 does and what it's capable of and the swapping. And, again, especially my dream that somebody just, you know, makes an attack for Mars module for it.
    62:22
    Somebody who can do third-party P3 games. It would be so easy to make a P3 attack for Mars. Get on it. There you go. Well, you know, the fact that it's somewhat, I don't think you can call it open source, but the fact that you can, you know, somebody can make a third-party game, it's pretty neat, you know. And it might give some new up-and-coming, you know, budding designer a first shot.
    62:49
    Oh, yeah. If you're like an engineering badass, you can build whatever you want, because that's the whole idea behind P3 is that you have that suite of tools. but it's apparently, you know, an incredible amount of work. Yeah, it is, especially trying to get it into that one-third module, right? I mean, you've got to pack it all in. And then the software and just, yeah, there's a lot to it. But, yeah, man, that's, you know, that's a cool-looking game. I don't know about not Drain so much, but, you know, final restitution. Final resistance, yeah. Final desolation. We're going to have trouble with that one until we've played it a few times Yeah So moving on And the one that actually got this one mixed up with Because I'm really excited for Planet Resistance I got it right But our next one Like I have a chubby Okay everything about this Before you even get to the gameplay It's Nordman It's Dennis Nordman And he's bounced around for a while But hasn't put out an actual Well okay I take that back because he did do the latest Obira game. But other than that, he hadn't really been super active in designing and getting games released in the last few years. It's an original unlicensed theme. I love everything about this theme. Like I've already sent emails out to American Pinball going, hey, those advertisements you have, are you going to have posters of those for sale? And if so, where do I send money? So I haven't heard back yet, but it's the weekend. I remember what we did for you with that Hot Wheels episode, American Pinball. Yeah, that's right. We sold a couple Hot Wheels with that episode. I know we did. A couple hundred. Probably a couple hundred. Yeah. So, you know, hook a brother up. Hook three brothers up.
    64:41
    But, yeah, man, Galactic Tank Force. And we've been talking about this for a while, and everybody's like, I don't know, man, I don't know. So the artwork alone and then the advertising artwork, like, just speaks to me on a whole other level. And, like, with the cool pretty girls in the spacesuits and, you know, dressing up the folded-up game like a tank. Like a cool 1960s, like, tin and plastic battery-operated toy tank where the little gun would shoot out sparks. That's like right up from like the beginnings of my childhood. I'm going back to like the old Major Matt Mason astronaut toys, you know, really cool, you know, Flash Gordon, Flash Ray Gun kind of stuff. And I love everything about that. This game just screams it's going to be the coolest thing ever. And it's just – and then you're fighting aliens with tanks and you've got pretty space girls and ice cream. I don't know where that came from. but that's the coolest fucking thing ever, okay? You know, defend the galaxy, get free ice cream. How the fuck, where do I sign? You know, sign me up. I want to be a space cadet too, man. That just is so cool, and I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these games. So that's all I got for now, man. So, Dan, please, go. All right, so obviously the art is stellar, right? You know, once again, Christopher Franchi is on the scene. I think that this is what he wants. You know, I think that I heard that he was talking to somebody and he said, the American Pinball Project is the first machine that I've done that it's what I want to draw. You know, everything else.
    66:33
    That's awesome. He's a professional commercial artist, right? So they say, hey, we want you to draw the Guardians of the Galaxy. He draws the Guardians of the Galaxy. They say, hey, we want you to draw the Godfather. He draws the Godfather, and he has a wonderful photorealistic style, and it looks tremendous.
    66:52
    I have one of his games right now on loan. I haven't owned a Franchi game yet, I don't think, but I think that the art on it is excellent. That's a Beatles. So I love that for him. Dennis Nordman, this looks like Dennis Nordman Unleashed. We know Dennis Nordman will design super cool, interesting play fields, lots of big swoopy ramps, you know, your party zones, your whitewaters, your original couple Elviras. His wonderful ramps got stripped out of House of Horrors, unfortunately, much to that game's detriment. You know, Nordman is a known quantity. and American Pinball has definitely shown that they can build a solid game. I was just playing Hot Wheels last night, and it always blows me away just how well-constructed that game feels like it is and what a competent product these guys are engineering. So I have a lot of love for GTF. What I don't love as much as you do is the theme. The space tanks, okay. The pretty girls, I'm down. the ice cream, what the fuck, guys, like, you're just getting too corny. Like, that was just taking the camp a little too far. Probably won't ruin the game, but it lost me a little bit there. And the other thing is I need American Pinball to remember that what they've done best so far is give you a ridiculously good value. and I look at this game and I look at the crazy, you know, super deluxe edition that folds up into a tank and I look at some of the stuff that they're doing with it and it makes me worried that American Pinball is going to think that they can go out there and compete with Jersey Jack or even Stern Premiums on price. They need to keep that basic edition right there in that Stern Pro striking range so that, you know, maybe the normals can afford something cool. but more than that the people who are willing to give the little guy a chance will give the little guy a chance and from what I've heard at this point they're going to try to go up market and I hope that they don't I hope that they that they stay under 8,000 I hope that they stay 7,500 maybe even 7k at their most basic level so that you know pinball pinball for the masses not the classes right you know and then you have that super duper deluxe edition you know for the people who are just out of their minds. And, you know, then you have that middle-of-the-road edition for, you know, the Stern premium buyer. Let's see what they do with it. But great art and a great play field design. And for me, somewhat questionable theming. I don't know what's going on with the sound. I don't recall seeing who's doing the sound. Maybe it's like Dave Theo or someone's on it. It'll sound really, really good. I'm sure it'll have a lot of theremin, stuff like that. So, oh, God, I hope so. Moves and effects, hopefully some good voice acting. I know that they announced that they got some voice actors, you know. And then the other question with American has always been, like, please put some money into your display. You know, please give it some good graphics. You know, don't Legend of Valhalla this one.
    70:12
    You know, don't make it too goofy, too cheesy. you know, I've loved all their games so far, to be honest. Like, I think Houdini is so underrated. I think Oktoberfest is actually a really, really cool game. One just went up for a really decent price in Canada, and I was like, man, I wish I was in Canada.
    70:32
    And obviously, I think Hot Wheels has a lot of bang for its buck. Valhalla does a lot of cool things, you know. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it misses. But I think it's overall a cool game. So I'm hoping that this is the game that really, you know, shows them that they can do it as well as anything that Stern can do, maybe even as well as what Jersey Jack can do. But they got to remember to do it reasonably. Don't try to be the $10,000-plus guys because you're not going to make it. Great point, Dan. That's something when they started up with, you know, having more than one model. And I've always been the opinion, put out a really good game, just one game. Just put out a good game. Shut the fuck up. You know, I don't want the super, you know, gizmo because I play pinball, you know, since I'm five. I'm 57. I've been playing pinball literally since I was five years old. I just want a good game that's fun to play. I don't care about the plaque or the lemonade and any of that stuff. People that do, okay, you know, it's actually a thing. You got the coin for it. God bless you. It's American. They're like tread panels and folds into a tank. Yeah, okay. I mean, I wouldn't pay extra money for it, but I dig in the art, you know, in the advertisements and stuff. Okay. I dig, you know, I just dig that they're doing that just to, you know, and, but anyway, so. They're like making that, right? Like that's supposed to be like, you can buy that. You can buy that, I think. And I think they're only going to make like a hundred of those or something. Oh, yeah. A small amount, you know. because I mean you've got to fold it down and you've got to fold it up to play it and it just doesn't make a lot of sense other than if you've got to display it like a trade show or something you have a couple up to play and then one fold it up and go look it's a tank too isn't that cool? You know because it kind of is You think that's a big cart like Shannon has? I've heard about that. And then you like roll it around the show and run over little kids. There you go And with that, I'm going to give the floor to Mark. Oh, I'm with you, Spencer. This thing is over the top. Dennis Norman all the way. I love his quirky stuff. I mean, I laugh every time when I listen.
    72:55
    It's a laugh attack or whatever he says, you know, on Party Zone. I just love all of those quirky weird themes that he comes up with from his mind this one looks just over the top cheese like you would not believe ice cream like you said I really want to see how this comes together in a story while you're playing this game because I personally like original themes I really care less about themes as far as like IP stuff I really into original creation of a storyline that is not copycatting something else that already been licensed I really am huge on that. I love Dialed In as an example. And this one is bringing me back to the 90s. It's bringing back that weirdness that he does in his games. The artwork looks great, and like Dan said, Franchi nailed it. And the other thing is it's not too busy, but it still looks beautiful. And there's a huge difference between the other one. But you can really clearly see where the shots are. I want to see gameplay on this so bad because it is something I've been very excited about. I know I've always been hyping it before it even was announced that it was Galactic Tank Force. But just the sound of it, GTF. I mean, it will be a coined word among the pinball community because I think the game is going to just kick ass. I think it's going to be awesome. The play field looks great. The shots look fun. But I can't really say until I see the gameplay.
    74:39
    Curious how they're going to do the video assets. I have no idea what it's going to be like. And also the design of the special edition with the fold-down tank is so cheesy and kitschy, but at the same time, it's cool because it's like it kind of reminds you of those old toys that were, you know, made out of the steel. It kind of had that, like Spencer said, that 60s style design. So, yeah, it's going to be pretty wild to see somebody have that in their collection. But like Dan said, I hope it is under $10,000. I really hope it's in the $8,000, $9,000 because if it's really good, I might sell my Hot Wheels and get it. I think they need to be in the $7,000s at their most base level. I really hope so. I don't know. Black rails, you know, don't lose a whole lot off the play field. People just want the good game. I just want a game. I don't care about the collectability of it. I just want to play a fun game. You're the American Pinball owner, right? You put your money where your mouth is. You bought their product, and you bought it, I think at least in part, because it was a great value, right? You were getting a brand-new game for used Stern money.
    76:03
    And while I know they're still not that cheap, but apparently even Hot Wheels in its basic form is $7,500 now. I hope that that's where they come in with Galactic Tank Force. And I think if they do that, you know, they're going to give the Foo Fighters Pro fans an alternative, you know, to... If there was a smart marketing move. Yeah. I mean, if they can have it be able to be at a lower price, that's going to help their business. But like you said, if they charge like $10,000 or $11,000 on it, it's going to turn a lot of people off, and it might cause major problems later on down the road to keep that business alive. I really truly believe what you said, Dan. I hope they have a good price point. I really do because, honestly speaking, I would love to get that game. It would probably be something that would make me sell my Hot Wheels. If it's really a good game, I am not the kind of person that will just go in blindly because I've got to have an investment with one machine I can only have at this time, and I've got to play it first to really make that judgment call. But I'll tell you something, it looks really fun, and it looks like Dennis Norman is having fun with it, which I love to see, because he is very creative and wacky ideas. and it's great to see that come together in a game so many years later of all the games that I love, like Dr. Dude and Party Zone and Elvire the Party Monsters and all those great wacky themes. So really looking forward to it, and I hope they can bring one. Maybe Don Hiley can bring one because he always brings an American pinball, and we play new ones every time. So I hope it's there. I really do. And maybe it's already on the line and they're going to be shipped out. I really hope so because the waiting time is the worst part because they don't have as big of a production facility knowing that because I've toured it.
    78:15
    But I'll tell you this, their game quality and their build quality, if they keep it the way it is, is built like a tank. And, hey, there you go. It's built like a tank. Boom. So there you go.
    78:30
    Yeah, so anyway, I'm really excited. And we'll just have to wait and see. You know, with everything you guys have added on to this conversation about Galactic Tank Force,
    78:43
    I've been, you know, it's really funny because it came out of the gate stumbling, you know, because with the original Houdini design. And then in, like, unbelievably short amount of time, they turned it around and put out a winner, a real product. They prove themselves, and they prove themselves time and time again with bucking the current trends and saying, no, I'm going to put out unlicensed original themes. And then even when they did do a licensed theme, you know, Houdini was kind of soft licensed.
    79:13
    When they put out Hot Wheels, you know. Houdini is, you know, public domain. It is. But, I mean, it's a known character, you know, in American pop culture, even though, yeah, It is, you know, an open IP, I guess.
    79:29
    But even with Hot Wheels, you know, they kind of, you know, people are like, oh, Hot Wheels, it's a kid's toy. It's like, yeah, but everybody knows it. Everybody knows Hot Wheels. Rusty still tells the stories about being a little kid. I don't know if she was like eight or nine. And she got a Barbie Dreamhouse for Christmas. And she was pissed because she wore Hot Wheels, you know. So even girls dig Hot Wheels. They know it. So, you know, I always like the fact that they kind of, They went a different direction than the industry norm. They put out a quality product and, again, just above a Stern Pro. Say, you know, I can do an extra $300 or $400 and I can get the Hot Wheels or I can get the Houdini. And there was a little more for Oktoberfest, but, damn, man, that game has so much in it. And like Dan said, now that's a really, really fun game, and I think underrated too.
    80:22
    Well, yeah, I mean, I won't talk hours about Hot Wheels, I promise. But I'll tell you something, the only thing I had to do with that game is just adjust the flippers because they were a little, they weren't straight. I mean, they weren't angled properly. That was it. Yeah, very robust. Maybe very robust and solid. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what they come up with, I mean, with this new one. Just remember who you guys are and price it right Man if that price is right Oh man That's going to be Because I already have somebody who's willing to buy my Hot Wheels I already have somebody sealing the deal So I still beat the game I was close But yeah anyway Way to go American Pinball I'm a fan of you so Don't disappoint us We've done the whole episode for you guys So, you know, and not, you know, and really other than you buying the game, I mean, you know, it's not like, you know, we're not chilling. Like, you know, we're like, hey, you know, we like what these guys are doing. Here's a deep dive into this game. I am in absolute chill. Send me the game and I will talk about it forever. No doubt. Yeah, send ice cream. Yeah, me for sure. I will put you on the show. I will live stream it. I will sleep next to it.
    81:44
    It'll be great. Yeah. So I'll put a leash on it and walk it like a pet, and it'll be good. I'll borrow Shannon's cart, and I'll drive it around the neighborhood and tank it for him. There you go. That would be a good probably for that. We'll put it in the local parade. It'll be great. Yeah. No, we're all pulling for you. Just do it right. With that, it's not the newest game released on here, and we did kind of talk about it, But it's one of the newer games, so I want to kind of add it in because it's just starting to ship. And then we have one more new one after that. So Scooby-Doo from Spooky Pinball. I know we kind of talked about this.
    82:25
    And, you know, I just want to quickly review because it's starting to ship. You know, it's got great voice call-outs from actual actors of the original, you know, cartoon show. And it hits the nostalgia market great.
    82:41
    It's got some new and innovative, again, young new designers. You know, bug memory. Maybe not for the best in this case. You know what, though? I like what I see so far, but I got to play it. You know, I just got to play it. But we talked about it last time, so I kind of wanted to add it in to say, well, because I've been getting worried because I'm out here where there's not a lot of pinball action going on, and we haven't had a lot of new games coming out except for like Bond. And I'm like, we don't have a lot. Like, we're going to talk about the next episode. But we always find something good to talk about. So, and Jim was a great, great guest. But, yeah, I mean, Scooby-Doo's another. And everybody's up in the bar. They're really up in the ante. So now it's like, oh, do I buy Scooby-Doo because I love the theme and I want to support Spooky and they're a great bunch of cats? Or, oh, man, do I, you know, do I go buy, you know, the Godfather or Foo-Fah? I mean, you know, boy, you know, this is going to be some broke. It's like there could be a lot of y'all out there this next year living off fucking Top Ramen. That's all I got to say. But, Dan, final thoughts on Scooby-Doo. You know, I respect Spooky Pinball. I know they do it for the love of the game. I know that they build what they want to play. And, you know, I was super impressed when I, you know, when I heard Bug on, I don't remember, I think it was Loser Kid. and man he sounded like every bit the leader of a company for for a young man and you know they asked him about how Scooby-Doo played and he said we're not out here to build sterns you know stern builds sterns if you like how sterns play great they make beautiful games uh you know we're out here to make a spooky and I know that a lot of people have been have been shitting on how Scooby-Doo plays. I myself have said many bad things about how I think Rick and Morty plays and that I think that Rob Zombie is the worst pinball machine that I've ever played in my life. But there's they always have their fans because I'll give Spooky credit they theme the shit out of things. Like their Scooby-Doo looks the part it sounds the part and while the background music for the main gameplay drives me insane and needs to be changed. It's super authentic. You can tell that they do it with love for the game.
    85:13
    So, you know, I hope, you know, I'm sure that they've probably sold all, what were they doing, 1,969 units this time, which is a humongous production run. And I'm sure that they've sold them and that they will go to maybe not, you know, tournament pinball players, but it'll go to Scooby-Doo fans. I have a couple friends of mine who are ridiculously beyond excited to get them.
    85:40
    I would simply say from some of the news that's been flying out there, slow down, do it right. Everybody knows who you are. Everybody knows how you build games. You know, make sure that those daughters are clean. Make sure that everything gets fastened in place. And don't be afraid if you do it wrong to throw it out and redo it right. because you guys are under a microscope. Everyone looks really, really hard at Spooky Pinball because they are the quintessential boutique pinball company.
    86:14
    But I don't care about Scooby-Doo myself. I was never a big fan of the cartoon. I will be happy to flip that game when my friends get it. I would be surprised if I walk away going, man, I need to own one of these. But, you know, it sure looks good, and it has the real voices and it has a really cool kind of rule set. So, you know, good on them. I hope it does real well. I hope the owners are extremely happy. Well said, man. I like it. Mark, final thoughts on this? Gorgeous game. The artwork is amazing. The colors they use, the assets that they use, It just has everything speaking Scooby-Doo to all those fans and people who love that series or that cartoon or franchise or whatever you want to call it. It really is a beautiful game and a lot of great sculpts under the glass. It definitely has that world under glass feel.
    87:19
    As far as gameplay goes, I have no idea. I haven't played it. I watched it, and I agree with you, Dan. I'm a huge music person, and that music is a bore fest as far as how it just almost slows the game down when maybe the ball is not physically slowing down, but the music is just not as energetic to make it seem boring. It just seems boring. It's so bad. I know Ted had a chance to play it when he was in Wisconsin. They had it. And he said he didn't like the gameplay because it just, it was, he said it was boring. And I can't be the judge of that as far as, until I play it. But I can tell you this, that I do like the adventure of having to unmask the villains and really staying true to the plot of the episodes. and the assets look really good as far as the video integration with the game. It definitely has great call-outs and it looks appealing. I mean, if you go into an arcade and you see that, I guarantee you little kids are going to want to play it. It just has that visual appeal.
    88:37
    But once again, I always get on the fence when it comes to gameplay. I'm hoping it's not a clunk fest but I know there's a lot to do up in that upper play field and that might get a little boring the bookcase flipper is very clever and that definitely changes gameplay a little bit so it'll be interesting to try that out but I don't know I'm on the fence I need to see it at a show and play it or play it on location somewhere so I can really get a good game on it or a couple games to just get a feeling of how is the flow of this game? How does the ball shoot? Is it going to be annoying to shoot in an orbit and then not know where it comes out, where you can't see the ball traveling? I don't know.
    89:33
    I'm wishy-washy. I can't really say. I'm excited about it. I love Spooky. I love the company. I love the passion and the energy that they put into their products. But like Dan said, there's a lot of quality control issues that I saw on Pinside. And I know Pinside is a bitch fest for most people. But I was pretty dismayed when I saw that soldering job. It was pretty bad. And I know maybe they are limited on personnel. And they are trying to get those games out. I'll give them credit for that. They definitely are getting the games out. I know they're in the hundreds. And I can tell you this, that I will get to play it very soon, probably in the next couple of weeks, and then I can really give that accurate first impression to really see how that game plays. But I love the story. I love the unique modes it has. I just hope the music gives it more variety instead of just that same drone music that it kind of has the feeling of like Alice Cooper, but even slower. It just doesn't have that energy. It sounds like the song should be playing when the ball's sitting in the shooter lane. Exactly. That's a perfect, perfect description of what that feels like. So I'm hoping with code it will change it. they can do a code update they can move some stuff around like you know give us a little bit more energetic gameplay theme you know base something on the Scooby Doo Where Are You theme don't just play the theme over and over save it for the multiball just like you did but yeah you know mix the music up a little bit call Scott there you go and Hannah Barbera sound effects with the different things, that fits really well, especially for people who are fans of the show. So, yeah, that's one that, out of all in this list, I'm excited to see it. But as far as gameplay, it's not really making me excited. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Theme integration is where it's at. But it's got to translate onto the play field. When you hit a shot, it's got to feel fun. It's got to feel good. So I'm going to go ahead and take us in to the last game on the list, which actually is supposed to not actually come out for a while, but they're already, you know, putting out some information on it. And he's making money. You know, we talked about this.
    92:14
    Okay, well, yeah. So, yeah. And we talked, Dan and I talked about this also. We're both huge Tarantino fans. So the game is Pulp Fiction. And it's the return of Mark Ritchie, classic pinball designer who hasn't been designing pinball games for some time. But you know a lot of his work. Taxi, Diner, Indiana Jones are all his, among other great pinball machines.
    92:39
    Fishtails, all great games. So it's his return. And this is a collaboration between, help me out if I get this wrong, it's Raw Thrills no well it's a subsidiary of Raw Thrills it's Play Mechanics is owned by Raw Thrills but what they are is their Raw Thrills is a design house Raw Thrills builds the game Play Mechanics designs the game sort of like I don't know what I understand how it works ok so they design and then Raw Thrills is the they're the manufacturer Okay, so you've got a design house. Isn't Chicago Gaming Company their manufacturer? Not of Pulp Fiction, yeah. Chicago Gaming engineered it and is going to produce it. Okay, so they're manufacturing it. So Mark Ritchie works for Play Mechanics. George, it's not George Gomez, but it's George Petro, who's an old Bally Williams guy. He's the guy who owns the company and did the software. Dave Thiel, you know, who's gone for hire at this point, you know, he will sound for money, did the sound, and it was one of their in-house artists did the art. Nice. I don't remember his name. So we talked, you know, it's another one, wow, real adult theme. Real quick, first impressions. Real. Real quick. Love that they have all the, what's the one I'm looking for? the assets, if you will. They've got a sculpt, a three-dimensional sculpt of Samuel L. Jackson's character. They've got a three-dimensional sculpt of John Travolta. It's got the briefcase that turns around and lights up like, you know, like it is in the movie. They've got the watch, which kills me. They've got Big Hoonaburger. They've got an actual cheeseburger with a bite out of it. So all the assets for the film are in there. So if you know the film, The Topper, Dan and I talked a lot about this off air for the last few days. The Topper just gets, like, you have to see this thing in action. And we've seen video of it. I can't wait to see it up close and personal. They really, really hit the nail on the head. It's got a retro look to it, so it's got just, it is actually, it's like four-player displays, like in the early solid state, but they are, and Dan pointed this out to me, and I saw it in the video later, oh, they are alphanumeric. single-level play field. It's got a cool retro look, which if you know Tarantino, if you know his films, you knew that's what he was going to say. Hey, no, I want retro, and that's what they're giving you. They're giving you a retro. That topper alone just screams retro.
    95:28
    I'm really excited to play this. I think it's going to be really fun. I think the theme integration is going to be amazing, and we're going to talk more about the retro thing here in a minute. But I'm going to kick it over to you, Dan. So, for one thing, you know, this has been rumored for a long time, right? Yeah. And I think everybody had an idea what was going to happen. And when they announced it's not going to have a DMV and it's not going to have an LCD, they're going to put numeric score displays in it. And then they ended up being alphanumeric. I was like, oh, you fuckers are out of your minds. like you're gonna you're gonna make a retro game and then they said they didn't say anything about the sound and i was just like dude if they make this thing sound like a bally playboy or something i will fall over laughing because at this point like the sound is going to do all the all the heavy pulp fiction lifting so they finally started making the announcements they said it has like 350 actual voice calls uh and it has five licensed songs and it's got you know uh sound Alex by David Thiel, who, again, best in the biz, right?
    96:42
    And everybody's really excited. They showed the art. They showed the play field. And I'm a Pulp Fiction fan, so I'm automatically inclined to like it. And I'm a pinball fan who likes old games as well as newer and semi-newer games. And I, you know, I know everyone's excited because it's Pulp Fiction, But I think that people are going to burn on the retro play field much faster than people think they are, unless they play a lot of multiplayer.
    97:16
    Because I think that it's a simpler play field layout than most people expect it to be. It's not straight flat because it does have an up kicker and, like, a vertical lock behind the backboard.
    97:28
    But, yeah, no subways, nothing fancy like that. It's got some inline drops. It's got some orbits. it's got the Indiana Jones style three drop targets with the long with the I don't know if the lock behind it but a passageway behind it I love that it's got the old school plunge into it scoop um like I respect like hell that Tarantino looked at a picture of a modern pinball machine and said fuck that that's not my pinball machine because I guess they went to him and said hey we want to do a Pulp Fiction arcade game. And he said, let's do a Pulp Fiction pinball. And they showed him some concepts. And he sent back immediately, like, Dolly Parton, Strikes and Spares, you know, all this late 70s Valley stuff. And he was like, here's how I want my pinball machine to look, fellas. And, you know, they looked at it and said, yeah, we can do that. You know, I love the comeback story. You know, it's going to be great to see Mark Ritchie. I think everybody loves Fishtails. Everybody loves Taxi in this group. I'm sure, you know, that guy makes awesome games. His crossover rams will be sorely missed in this one.
    98:40
    But I think people are paying $9,000 for call-outs and music. I really do. Like, I think that a lot of people are getting into this because it's pulp fiction.
    98:52
    I would love for this game to somehow have the depth and complexity that modern pinball fans seem to demand. maybe it will, maybe it's going to have brain numbing rules like that they're just going to love but it sounds like the rule set's pretty straightforward it sounds like it's pretty much a 90's Williams sort of rule set it's got some cool sculpts, it's got some mechanical magic with that briefcase I'm excited about it being a Pulp Fiction pinball machine I'm excited about it being a retro game because I'm actually really kind of into retro games right now.
    99:36
    I just wonder, I wonder, I mean, I'm hoping that, like, a bunch of people get them and play them for six months and go, like, I'm going to sell it so I can pick one up cheap on the secondary market. But, yeah, I do think that the retro play field is going to be more divisive than people think it is. I do think, though, if you do go for the Bad Mother Flipper Edition, that that topper is awesome. I love the fact that the guys shimmy and dance, and I love the fact that when they talk, they sort of turn to the play field and they light up.
    100:09
    I think that that's dope. Like, I got to give all the credit in the world. I don't remember his name, but he was on the featurette that they did, and he was talking about how he really likes to design his toppers. and this is the guy who did the Attack from Mars topper, which animates, and he did the Texas Canyon topper with the gameplay features, and I think he was involved in the Medieval Madness topper, which unfortunately doesn't animate. Thanks, bro. That's the one I bought.
    100:39
    But, yeah, I think that, you know, that topper looks like the cat's meow, and I think that the game itself, like, they nailed the style. you know, the arts comic book style, you know, and I'm sure some people love it and some people hate it. I think it looks good. You know, I don't think that it's a gorgeous game. I don't think it's ugly. I think it gets across what it's trying to be. I think they got a great blend of songs and characters. I mean, I can't wait to see how the actual game looks in motion with the sound that's supposed to be in the game since all we've seen so far is we've seen gameplay, but it's been with like the commercial soundtrack over it, not like the actual game soundtrack. And I want to see where they put the sound. And that's going to be cool. We've got a lot of people here in town. I think we've got four or five people here in town have already, you know, put money down or put themselves on the list for it. So I'm sure we're going to have at least a couple accessible.
    101:41
    So, you know, Pulp Fiction looks cool. I don't know if people who are buying know what they're getting into but I hope that they do yeah you make great points I'm not trying to piss on it I've already been accused of this because I gave I've been given a couple of our locals a hard time about spending $9,000 on call outs because that's really all that's tying this to Pulp Fiction as we know it there's no video there's comic book art and there's plastic figures You're betting $9,000 that you're going to get off on music and sound calls. Well, there is two physical ball locks. It's supposed to have a modern rule set. It has modern lighting. It has modern sound, sound, sound. But two physical ball locks don't make it Pulp Fiction. No, they don't. I'm just looking at the features matrix right now. That was it. Because I wanted to know, too. Because you mentioned that. I'm like, yeah, I think there's a ball lock behind those three drop targets. And there is. There's also a ball lock at the briefcase. And there's divine intervention. Right, the one that shoots into the back box and it locks under the briefcase and it'll dispense down a chute. Right. Which is a super novel way to do that. I guess he wanted the balls to load into the briefcase. Yeah. But he just couldn't get it to work. Right. But, hey, but it's got a real knocker, and that's on all models. So, no, I'm with you, man. And I don't think you shouldn't know at all. I think you're just giving your honest, personal opinion, you know, which is cool. which I pretty much agree with. Mark, what are you thinking? I think this game looks awesome. The reason why I like it is I love 81, 82 games from Bally, and it screams that retro design, which I love, obviously, because I love TNA. And it's just, it looks like a game. It'll be easy to figure out to play. and when I heard the featurette with Josh Sharp, it sounded like it isn't that easy to get to the wizard mode, and he was playing it, and he only got to it twice the whole time he's owned the game, or not owned it, but play tested, if that is what you would call it. But having Josh Sharp on the team to help with the rules kind of makes me feel a little more confident that it will be a deeper game, but not too deep that it's so complicated. The layout looks great. It definitely has that retro vibe with the artwork. It's pretty much almost like a late 70s, early 80s game, which I love. It just totally brings me back to that time playing those solid state games. In this case, of course, it's an alphanumeric. But the call-outs are probably going to be just pulled right from the movie. I've never seen the movie, which is crazy, but I have not seen the movie, and I'm still excited about this game. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have not seen it.
    104:40
    How do I kick you off? Where's the ejector? Give me a no from me, dog. I have not seen it. And this game will make me want to see the movie now. We should have captured that. Give me a no from me, dog.
    105:01
    All right. I'm sorry. I will try to contain my disbelief. No, no, that was me talking about Mark Never seen Pulp Fiction Like, you know, off the island I was saying that we should get the ejection from the podcast right now That's why I was like Here's the door You're not watching the Pinball movie tonight You're going to watch Pulp Fiction No, no I still want to watch the Pinball movie Yeah If you don't get the chance Next time you come to town We can have a movie night We'll have it at Scott's house Oh my God, his home theater I can quote lines from that movie all day. Right? Yeah. I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?
    105:45
    My girlfriend is a vegetarian. Pretty much makes you a vegetarian. I do love a good cheeseburger. You love me a good burger, though.
    105:53
    Oh, Lord. Yeah, so like you said, Dan, the topper is amazing. I like how it turns and interacts with you and has the cost. it'll be interesting if it's just Oma Thurman and John Travolta that will do the cost I think that would make sense but yeah we'll have to see like how are they going to bring in the other characters with the topper that'll be interesting Mia and Vincent you know when the topper and the other probably the Ed Sullivan guy yeah you need the scene With this machine, you are buying the theme. You are. Right. Like, oh, my gosh.
    106:37
    And there's a lot of Pulp Fiction fans out there. I'm just being honest. I'm being honest. See, and honestly, I love to run into situations like this, though, because now it's just like I want to sit down with you and watch Pulp Fiction to see what you think. Yeah. Because my cousin married a lady, wonderful, wonderful lady. She's about 10 years younger than we are, right? And especially when you remember, he was a real cradle robber. But, of course, you know, it's been 20 years, so everyone's caught up. And she hadn't seen a ton of the movies that we, you know, really valued as kids, you know. The movies. She hadn't seen the movies. So it was great because, you know, we would do movie night, and I got to sit down with this adult, grown woman, and have her watch movies that meant a lot to me when I was 10 and go, so what did you think? And just have her just piss on them. Oh, man. I was screaming the whole time. That movie is terrible.
    107:37
    So it was always really interesting. Okay, I'm going to shut up and let you talk about the game. But, yeah, I don't even know what to do with myself now.
    107:45
    Well, there you go. Surprise. But that just goes to show you that I'm excited about that design. I love Mark Ritchie. I love fishtails and taxi and diner. Those are such great games. But I think this is going to be less people. Are you $1,000 excited about it? No. I'll be honest with you, I'm not. But knowing that there's troops coming to Reno. Your revelation is the perfect revelation that I needed.
    108:13
    Yeah. Good. Yeah. I mean, would it be Galactic Tank Force or Pulp Fiction? Probably Galactic Tank Force, to be honest with you. I don't know. Like I said, I haven't seen the movie. If I see the movie, that might change my mind.
    108:28
    But as far as the gameplay goes, it looks really fun to shoot, and it looks like it's not too complicated, which I like those kind of games. And the throwback design, the retro design, is definitely a trend coming. You said retro, the magic word. That's the word of the day.
    108:48
    We really need to, like, channel Groucho Marx and have the little sign drop down. The word of the day. Or like a TV show, man, just call Yale.
    108:58
    So the word of the day is retro. This is Dan's idea, and it's a great idea. So we're going to just flow into this topic. Are retro designings the new thing? And are they good, bad, you know, what are your thoughts? Because we have, well, we have Pulp Fiction, which is a retro design. We have a reproduction now with some added features on one version of Fathom. We have Beatles. There's one more, isn't there?
    109:28
    Bond 60. Thank you. Which, yeah, okay, so that's, yeah, Bond 60 is a retro style, whereas it's actually got actual score reels.
    109:39
    And it's just in a level play zone. It's got chimes. I believe it does, yeah. So, you know. It's got chimes in the cell. Yeah, yeah. Oh, but not in like a chime unit? No, no. It does not. Ah, okay. I thought it literally had like a chime unit inside. I was like, how many times do you know? How much better? Yeah. No, it does not. Okay. I go ahead and start with this I love Beatles Okay I mediocre on the Beatles I like the earlier work better than their later stuff But anyway you know I like them more than if I liked the early fun stuff where they were just, you know, boy meets girl.
    110:18
    I like the game, though. I like the way the game shoots. They took Sea Witch and they fixed the issues of the playful design itself with the kinetics of the design, the physics. and then they shoot way better. They have a multi-ball, they have a spinning disc record, cool features. I like the game overall. I like the way it shoots. I like the way it plays. I like the integration of the music and the theme and Ed Sullivan and all that. It's fun. It's modern, but it's got a retro feel to it, and I like it. Well, on 60th, I haven't played yet. The price point, I'm shaking my head on.
    110:54
    Fathom's cool, and I'm glad people are able to get a brand-new version of that. If I had a choice of two classic ballets, Centaur would always be my first choice above Fathom just because I love that game so much more. But I dig it.
    111:10
    Pull a picture. I'm a fan. I'm excited to see what's happening. And I always bring up because one of my all-time favorite games to play, and I really want to own one someday, is Break Shot from Capcom. And that came out at a time where nobody was doing that. It has multiball. It has a dot matrix display. But it's a single-level play field. You know, you got drop targets. You got, you know, pop bumpers and all the more traditional stuff. And it's a billiard theme, very classic. But it was very retro for that time. And that Newton post. And that Newton post, exactly. Real simple. It was a cool design. And it's a fun game to play. And I love the theme. I love the gameplay. I love the artwork. I love everything about that game. But it's retro. So I think there's a place for it because, you know, we all agree. We all love, like, okay, like you guys, I love the classic late 70s, early 80s Bally's. Those are some of my favorite games to play. The late 70s, early 80s Gottliebs as well.
    112:15
    And then the early 80s Williams, you know, Flash, Blackout. Meteor. Well, yeah, Meteor. It's an early stern, but yeah, exactly. Nineball, Sea Witch, Galaxy. What a great... All those in that era from like 78, 79 to like 84. And then you get into like in 84, you get into like Space Shuttle. And what was the other one from that era? What's the one with the mushroom and the snail? Oh, Time Fantasy? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Time Fantasy.
    112:57
    And I love that game. How is this game from the mid-'80s? This is definitely a 70s game. It's that, you know, and the Defender pinball machine. In that era, you know, the Williams really starting to take off and do some really different stuff. Or you go back, you know, a little further into the valley, you know, a class of 81, every game now, Medusa, 8-Ball Deluxe, you know, Flash Gordon,
    113:24
    you know, Fathom, Centaur. The question is, Spencer, what do you think of those being brought into modern times, and what do you think that's going to mean to modern players? Because my thing is this. So I have a Beatles right now. I got it from, you know, front of the show, Shannon. It's just on loan. I'm desperately coming up with a way to scam him out of it. Hopefully everything works out. And he brought it over to me, and he said, I hate this game.
    113:55
    And I said, really? And he goes, it's vicious. It just, I can't do well at it. It's just kicking my ass. And you know what? I set it up. You know, I dialed it in. I started playing it. And, yeah, I'll be honest, man. Like, it is definitely sea witch, but, you know, refined. It's redone. It shoots great. There's a lot to like about it. But, man, that wrecker just loves to grab the ball and throw it out of bounds, and you have to execute on a pretty high level to actually progress through the game. And while the game is simple, there's modern-ish rules to it.
    114:34
    And I just was hating it until I got people here with me and we started playing at multiplayer, and it was me and Will and my cousin Jack, and then me and Will. Shit, man, we must have played it for five hours one night. And I was like, oh, dude, the genius of this is multiplayer. And it's the same thing with, like, League or something. You get a bunch of people on Jurassic Park or something like that, and, you know, okay, you're going to watch a bunch of people, you know, play through a modern game and execute, you know, modern game strategies. but you put them on a classic game, and that all goes out the window because classic games didn't fuck around. Like, they were built to kill you.
    115:18
    And then we downloaded the new ROM port, we updated it, and there's a mode now in Beatles where you can play Sea Witch. Now, it's not the retro sound that still sounds like the Beatles, and of course it's still the Beatles playfield, but it turns off the spinner, it turns off the magnet and instead of you know beetles you want it's very orbit heavy they want you to make that loop a lot if you can make that loop on beetles you're going to kick beetles ass but on Sea Witch it's much more about drop targets knocking down banks right and that's of course always the most fun thing to do in any old school game is knock down drop targets and I was just taken with like the difference in the actual retro play field or the, the retro style play field with the retro rules and how much I didn't like it probably mostly because Will was just whooping my ass at it versus how much I was enjoying the retro play field with the modern rules.
    116:27
    And I just, you know, I kind of threw the question out to the community and I thought I'll throw it at you guys just like, You know, Mark's had some time on Bond. You've played Bond 60. Did you ever play it? I have. I played it today. Did you play Fathom when you had it, when Jason had it? I did. I wish he didn't get rid of it. So you played the actual The Mermaid rules. I did play The Mermaid rules, and I thought they were awesome. trying to fill up the oxygen tanks and great storyline to go with the theme. Yeah, it was great. And the music was good, too. I mean, I got used to it, and it was kind of like, okay, this has kind of got a retro feel to it. But I thought it was fun. I thought it shot great.
    117:15
    And as far as Bond 60th, we could not stop playing that game today. I mean, he has tons of machines in his place. Dude, I am dying to get up there and play that with you guys. I was so disappointed that the water started last week and I couldn't come up because I think that game, you know, I was as much like, oh, God, it's ugly and it's $20,000. What the fuck was Stern thinking? And then I watched that stream of Jack Danger playing it with George Gomez and the other guys at Stern and just said, you know what, man, those guys are drinking beer and having a blast playing. It is a fun game. It's brutal. It is brutal. But I love the retro, you know, we're saying that a lot, aren't we? I love the spinner, the actual physical spinner reels.
    118:04
    They are very modern as far as how they're designed because it's cool because the next player comes up and it reverts to the score from that other player. But it's just, like, so smooth. So it's got that modern edge to it. But I'll tell you something, that game is a fun shooter. I mean, Ellen nailed it again. It is fun. And I know for a fact that when we played it, we could not stop. Okay, well, let's play another game. Let's play another game. We played like 20 games. And we had all these games to play. And it's like I was just gravitated to playing Bond 60th. It just is so much fun to shoot. And the rules on it are definitely, they're simple to play. I mean, I'm sorry. They're simple to learn, but I'll tell you something. I was trying to get more gadgets, and I could get two at the most, and then my game was over. So it had that one more game feel. Play it again, play it again, play it again. It is just, wow, great game. And is it worth $20,000? I can't afford that, and no, I would say no. And no game is worth $20,000. Nothing is worth $20,000. Is any game worth $20,000? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But when somebody has it to play, and it is a great game. It is awesome. I mean, if I would compare it to TNA, I would say it has more to do than TNA on it, even though it's single-level play. TNA is another. Figure-eight shot. Another good play. Oh, it's so good, that figure-eight shot. That's another game that I didn't even bring up. TNA is, you know, a single-level, old-school-style production. Again, you know, it started off as a Dolly Parton when you did his prototype.
    119:51
    And just, yeah, it plays so much different than a classic game. But it's just, I really, I don't know, man. I really have a feeling that, like, especially maybe not for the collectors, maybe not for the people who need big ramps and giant, you know, toys and stuff like that. Maybe these games won't win them over. But I think for the competitive pinball player, I think for the person who wants to play, I think these games offer a lot. They actually have me rethinking parts of, like, you know, my collection is very, like, 90s and forward, right? Like, I got tons of WPCs. I got a few classic Sterns. I got a few newer Sterns. I got a couple JJPs. I think the oldest thing that I have is a System 11. And, you know, I'm really like, man, I need to get some old games up in here because I just I think that I've forgotten outside of playing a league just how fun they are. and just how much the difference in the strategy when you're shooting them and just having a simpler rule set that the goal is just to execute these simple tasks at a very high level versus trying to stack 15 modes and build a multiplier and get into 3X or 6X and blow the game up. Totally agree with you. Yeah, that's what appeals to me is you don't have to be, you know, having your brain mush trying to figure out rules. And that's why I like Bond 60th and the other retro games that are coming out because it allows you to go for those targets instead of trying to figure out a strategy to get the highest score. And the other thing is they're short playing games. so you're not waiting for the person to play a 5-10 minute ball like Jurassic Park or another game where you're waiting for it and you lose that energy. But man, when you're playing multiplayer, like you said, with the Beatles, it's just super fun because the game is not that long. But in reality, you are playing as long because you're playing a huge number of games. Oh, yeah. And having that start button pushed over and over and over again, just trying to get all the gadgets or just trying to get the different multiballs or getting all the bonds. It's awesome. Yeah, I'll smash the start button four or five times in a row. That's even just playing by myself. But, again, if you get, you know, someone in the room who wants to play pinball with you, and rather than trying to describe to them how to, you know, start modes on Tron Legacy and get into the multi-balls or how to, especially how to play Guns N' Roses, I hate trying to train people how to play that game, even though it's super fun once you know it. That's any Jersey Jack. Huh?
    122:58
    That's pretty much any Jersey Jack, though. You know, like the Wizard of Oz. I know that because most of the Jersey Jacks literally are just start a mode, hit flashing lights. Guns N' Roses is all about setup and qualify and then execute and then risk versus reward and decide when you want to get out. Like, that game, like, for the newbie, it's a nightmare. Where Beagles, I can say, okay, this mode, you want to hit orbits. This mode, you want to keep it in the pops. This mode, you want to hit drop targets. And what's the other one? This mode, you want to rip the spinner. And then if you do one of those modes and then you spell FAB4, hit the orbit, and then you can do another one. And if you get it either in gameplay or you get it, you know, on your ball three, this mode is a two-ball, multi-ball frenzy. Ready, go. Yep, exactly. And you mentioned spinners. Genius having four spinners. It is so much fun to shoot those spinners in all the different directions that it is in the play field. Oh, it's so good. Going on. I can't wait until you play it. Yeah, when you get a chance to play it. Coming down to Reno. Oh, it's so good. I love it. Ellen swore he'd never do a game without at least one spinner. And if you look back. But four? Oh, it's so good. It's so good. That's a weird period where they weren't putting spinners in games. Yeah. Right. Well, Valley Williams, too, in the 90s. Very few games in the 90s. It was a few, but a lot of them didn't have spinners. And having optical spinners makes it even better. I'll tell you that. The optical spinners, oh, it's so fun to rip them. Yeah. And that game just screams as far as speed. It is a fast game. If you go back to the early 80s, especially Williams, Blackout and Warlock come to mind. Both of those games had three spinners. You look at some of the late 70s, or more of the early 80s, Sterns, where they had two or three spinners. like Stargazer and... Oh, yeah, Stargazer's so good, too. What's the other one I'm just thinking of? I had three spinners in that one. Stargazer's another design that I would love to see them revisit, like if they did with Sea Witch, except for the fact that Stargazer does not have, like we were talking about earlier, the traditional Trumpian nod arrangement. Italian bottom.
    125:36
    And I think that, you know, I just wonder, you know, what the commercial success of these games could really be, you know, and I think Pulp Fiction's going to show us, and that's why I'm, it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, because now I sound really enthusiastic about retro games, and I'm enthusiastic about Pulp Fiction. I'm afraid that a lot of people are going to jump on Pulp Fiction because it's Pulp Fiction and be turned off because it's retro, because I was really surprised to hear, you know, the owner who I've already mentioned his name, but I'm not trying to make him sound bad, say that he wasn't having fun with Beatles. But having it, I did understand why he said it because, yeah, some of those games are brutal. And it seems like modern pinball players, you know, a lot of them, maybe not the competitive pinball players, but a lot of modern pinball players, they don't like games when they're too hard. Ninja Turtles caught a lot of shit for being too hard. You know, a lot of the more brutal games out there, you know, people don't tend to like as much. And I wonder, you know, will that ultimately end up being good for pinball?
    126:40
    Because I hope that it is. I would love to see more single-level, you know, classic-inspired, maybe not necessarily straight remakes, although I really do hope that Haggis figures out this Fathom thing and then does other titles. and, you know, I want to see more of that stuff. But I really do want to get my hands on one of those Fathom remakes and check it out. As somebody who had a real brief ownership of a very broken Fathom, you know, I've always had a soft spot for that game, and I do think it's a beauty. And I think a lot of the older games, I think one of the things they miss with the new style of the older games is they're not quite as gorgeous as the games from the early 80s. The art design is different. And I think Bond 60 is uglier than ACDC. And that's the thing.
    127:33
    It doesn't look that bad in person. I had the same thought. I don't think ACDC looks that bad in person either. But, I mean, I just think that, like, wow. Yeah, it does.
    127:42
    They did a bad job with the art on that game. ACDC is fuck ugly. But it's a wonderful, great game. And it's a great team. Yeah. It's an example of what they were doing at that moment in time. you know. Yeah, thank God Metallica fixed that. ACDC's still amazing. You know, I've turned around on ACDC versus Metallica though. I think I like ACDC better than Metallica now. I almost said side by side originally like Metallica whooped its ass ten times out of ten and now I'm like I don't know man I'm getting down with ACDC quite a bit these days. ACDC is a near perfect game. It's one weak point is the art package. But beyond that, it's still a fantastic game. It's kind of an uggo play field, man.
    128:28
    It's not the artwork and everything, but, yeah. That's the thing, like, look at Pulp Fiction and go, oh, wow. You know, it's stylized, animated art in that style of the 80s, late 70s, early 80s. Like I said, you know, the kitsch value alone, the gameplay is fine, but the kitsch value alone, I've always wanted a Dolly Parton. And it's just because it fits the time period so beautifully. So would you pay $8,000 for Dolly Parton today?
    128:56
    No. That's a good question, Dan. That's where I'm coming with this. It was the question I got to ask Mark earlier because of just the amazement that he hasn't seen Pulp Fiction. And the purpose up there is just like, do you look at Pulp Fiction and go, this game's worth, and it's not even 8,000 kids because you've got to remember you're going to pay tax and shipping or some combination thereof. It's really more like 9,000 bucks. And in the case of Pulp Fiction, I feel like you're paying that for a name and for some call-outs. You know, Eagles was $8,000, right? You know, is it worth it? You know, and Eagles is a little bit more modern of a game presentation-wise, but it's undoubtedly, you know, just as modern in terms of, hey, you know, probably a little less modern in terms of some of the play field tricks it does and some of the light show and whatnot. But, you know, let's see Pulp Fiction in action before we, you know, Make that decision. Great franchise. That's right. Beautiful franchise. Yeah. And I didn't mention it, but David Thiel sold. I love David Thiel's movies. When I got Pirates, or before I got Pirates, but when I first heard of Pirates, I was just like, in fact, this goes back to the Stern days, right? Me and Will went to the arcade, the first arcade that we knew of that got Pirates of the Caribbean. and I walked out crushed that they didn't get the movie music. Because Lord of the Rings had it, right? And so I just, in my head, it was going to have the Pirates of the Caribbean theme. And then when JJP did it, and they said, well, we don't really, you know, we have all these different characters, and we have this guy doing voices,
    130:34
    but we didn't get the actual music. And I was just like, oh, man, what a fail. Like, just disastrous. but you know having played it for a lot and then eventually buying it yeah david did such a great job on the soundtrack of that game and the sound effects and and putting you in the piratey world and giving you really good sound alikes like he is the sound alike god um he's so good and alien is amazing the soundtrack you know i can't decide on alien if i love that game or hate that game Usually in one game, I kind of both because Mike has an LV right now, so I've gotten this quality time on it. That's a really cool game, man, and that's a winning theme, I think, for a lot of guys in our wheelhouse. I've never played it in alien mode, by the way. I always play it in aliens because I love that freaking movie. But, yeah, great music. Sounds like it's supposed to. The music is so good. It's so good. Sound is so important, but yeah, you know, just to get back on the classic, the retro, the remakes, just like, you know, I want to see this be a trend that continues. I want to see the community figure out how to love these games, and I want to see, you know, I want to see how people react to Pulp Fiction once it's in their houses for a couple months. Because I don't think that... It'll be interesting to see that. Because if we see that renaissance of younger people wanting to play retro games, that's what I want to see. Is it going to appeal to the 20-something crowd? I don't think they've ever done anything that's been a wide release, right? It's always limited. They're making so many fathoms. They made 2,000 Beatles. They made how many bombs? Like 100? Was it 500?
    132:28
    It's something really low. I think 500. and of course then they decided to charge you 20 grand for it but like I really want to see like if somebody you know and obviously Haggis has had it's difficulties you know they're at least sticking to their guns and they're fighting the good fight to get these fathoms out there but I want to see this be successful because I think it's cool I don't know if it's good for pinball but I think it's really really cool and I'm having fun with what I have and I you know But, again, it's changing my perspective a little bit to kind of look at older games and, you know, want to play them more and maybe have more of them. Yeah. I don't think this is a problem with the retro games in particular. And we've talked about this. It's not about the games. It's about the collectors and the players. Well, right. Well, you know, with like Bond in particular being a $20,000 price tag, there's rumors that there's a location in Colorado that's going to have one. and they were going to, and this isn't, I don't have this, you know, verified yet, but remember they're going to have it on location, and then they're going to be charging $3 a play. And it's like at what point are people going to just not put money in a game, and at what point are operators just going to say, we're not buying new games. It just, it doesn't make financial sense. And that's, I think that's a genuine concern, you know, because the games keep getting more expensive, and in most places I know, There's still 50 cents a few places, but mostly a dollar a play. And people put a dollar in a game, especially a game they really enjoy. Will they put $2 in it or will they put $3 in it? $3 is pushing it. That's pretty wild. But then again, you've got redemption games where people throw in two bucks for a one-second game. Well, they will. Like that boxing game with the speed bag. And I tell this story about one night at a company party, office party. It was like the after party of a Christmas party. So we're at this little watering hole. People are having drinks. I put $1, $1.50 in the pinball machine, and I'm winning games. I'm playing. It was a World Cup soccer, and this was 15 years ago.
    134:40
    And I'm, you know, Rusty played a couple games. The boss played a game or two with me. So we put maybe $3 or $4 in the thing, and it was like 50 cents a game. and I'm watching our group and another group on the two boxing games in the place and they're dumping $20 bills in. So in the time that I put $2, $3 in the pinball machine, those two boxing games combined, people probably dropped $300 in. You know, so, you know, what are people going to spend money on? You know, are they going to spend money on, you know, they're going to buy more boxing games. You know, they're going to buy a claw machine. They're going to buy a redemption game where it's two seconds and $5 because people will do that and not think twice. But they're probably going to think twice about putting $3 in a pinball machine, especially if there is somebody that isn't familiar with pinball and that they're not. You know, like we all know the stories of somebody that comes up, you've got to show them with the start button, they pull the plunger, they let the ball go down and go, well, that wasn't fun. They don't even know about the flippers. So, you know, it's just, you know, it raises questions. Say, you know, at what point, guys, are you doing more harm than good? Well, it's such a niche-y situation, too. Like, again, I think that when we had talked about this before,
    136:00
    it's not that you're paying $3 to play pinball. It's that you're playing $3 for the novelty of playing a $20,000 pinball machine, right? No one's just going to walk up and be like, hey, three bucks a game for, you know, Adam's family. This is great. But the people who know are going to spend, you know, maybe unless they're lucky and they know people like we know, they're not going to have a chance to play this game, you know, in a private collection. They have to play it in the wild, you know. So maybe as an operator, you can get away with saying, hey, I have a Supreme and it's really expensive and I'm charging five bucks a game. You got to pay it off. Yeah, I think that when I look at the classic games or the retro games or the new modern, whatever you want to call it, I just, you know, my question is just do you put yourself into a situation where, like, operators aren't buying them? I don't think. I think that, you know, are collectors going to buy enough of them to make up for the fact that, you know, they're fun to play, but they're not feature-rich. You know, at least not on the surface. And our players, you know, maybe this kind of speaks to your point, are players going to play them enough to make them worth producing? And I think Pulp Fiction will be a proof of concept for that. Because Pulp Fiction... It'll be interesting to see what happens. It has a chance to appeal to a modern... Modern, you know, I mean, Pulp Fiction is still a 30-year-old movie. We've got to remember we're all old men now, except for Mark who's never seen it.
    137:45
    We've got to remember that it's like a 30-year-old movie, but like, you know, enough people I think in just the really real world know what Pulp Fiction is to be like, hey, you know, I'm going to buy this game because I love Pulp Fiction. And, you know, are enough people going to play it to make it worth building for the players? And are enough collectors going to buy it to make it worth building for the collectors?
    138:12
    And I don't think many operators will buy it. But you know what? Pulp Fiction, 9,000 bucks. You might see, you know, you might see a few of those on location. And what are they going to charge? A buck a play? Two bucks a play? You know, where do you make money? But we know if it shows up at Press Start in Reno, they're going to charge. $0.50. Yes, baby. Best location on the planet. Decent, correct $0.50 like all good games. You got it. Operators don't need to make money. Charge me $0.50 and I'll spend twice as many coins.
    138:44
    I actually had an idea sitting in the shower the other morning of getting some old like $6 million man,
    138:54
    stuff like that, get them cleaned up, bulletproof, and going around to see if I can get the local Quickie Marts to let me put a game in and just say, look, I'll split the cash box with you 50-50 and charge a quarter a game and just see if I can get finished pinball moving again or pinball period, moving on location again. You know, old school. You know, go in and get a Slurpee, you know, or an Icy or whatever and play a game of pinball and see if I can get that. It's just crazy thought I have. I think that that train has failed, but you can put Flash Gordon on location at my house and I'll pop a quarter in it every time I want to play it. You know, you're a gentle banana sculler there, Darren. I appreciate that.
    139:47
    I'll just take the legs off, put it in a big envelope, and send it your way. You can bring it when you come for the show, baby.
    139:55
    I'm not going to have room, man, because I remember I got to have bunks and everything else now. I mean, you know, I got to bring a nightstand for Rusty. She's got to be comfortable. In the car?
    140:07
    No, no. You know, I haven't found a camper yet. I'm still looking, so I'm probably going to tent camp it again, but we're going to have, like, cots and stuff. Stop the boys in the room. I, you know what Malcolm, we arrived on top Yeah We'll just drop a chair to the top You can just sit in the chair So here you go bud, here's a 12 pack of monsters for you That's great You know, so yeah No, I continue to want to just see pinball thrive, you know, and young people continue to discover it. Because that's a cool thing, man, is when they're discovering it, you know, organically, you know, like we all did, you know. We played our first pinball machine at, you know, an arcade or a bowling alley or a pizza place or, you know, wherever. And I want the younger generation to continue to discover it organically, you know. I was in this, you know, it's in the Dave and Buster's and got tired of playing Connect 4 and I saw this pinball machine, you know. It's like, oh, this is cool. What's this? You know, or I played it on Thimble Arcade and then, oh, wow, these things are real in the wild? Okay, cool. There's a lot, a lot to cover.
    141:25
    And it was nice to have a first impression of the game. What's funny is I haven't played any of these yet. That was the goal, right? We all just wanted to play. Yeah. That's perfect. I thought it was a toy story.
    141:42
    Nah. Yeah. Yeah, this is what we think of these upcoming games. I mean, obviously, it's the hottest thing, and while we're not a news show, we are a commentary, and you deserve to know what we think. If you cared enough to listen to two and a half hours of us talking about pinball, we love your face.
    142:00
    And we do these for people who have long road trips. So there you go. There you go. So shout-outs and thank yous. We'll just keep saying more to start. I'm just going to give a shout-out to all the volunteers and the board and organizers of the Golden State Pinball Festival, 61 days away in beautiful, sunny Lodi, California. We're here. And when is it, Spencer? May 19th, 20th, and 21st. Oh, yeah. Check us out on the website. Yeah, coming up soon. So much. So much to know. Golden State, goldenstatepinball.org.
    142:38
    And to all our listeners, thank you so much for listening. And to you guys. So that's it. That's my shout-outs and thank yous. My shout-out is to my wife, Heidi. I have to thank her so much for having her support me in this hobby and the competition. I've been away a lot playing in tournaments, not necessarily out of state, although there were a couple times where I did go to, like, District 82 and stuff. But I know when you're married, you have to balance time. And I appreciate her letting me have fun on that half a time where I can go and enjoy myself playing pinball with my friends and in the competition scene. So thank you, Heidi. Thanks to my kids as well. Couldn't survive without them, but it's nice that she supports me and wants me to be happy. So I love you, honey.
    143:28
    Oh, how am I supposed to follow that up? Well, you know what? Big thanks to, you know, CCPL. Big thanks to Reno Pinball. You know, everyone who's out there keeping us playing, keeping pinball alive. You know, big thanks to the other podcasts that we listen to. You know, you guys are great. You know, we can only hope to keep up with you.
    143:54
    You know, humongous thanks, as always, to you guys for, you know, doing this. And every once in a while we decide to put one of these together. And, you know, it's always a great time. And I can't wait to meet up with you all again. You know, it's always better to hang out in person. We've got a lot of good stuff going on. And, you know, I want to also thank my wife for accommodating and for continuously asking me when our Weird Al is going to be here.
    144:23
    You know, to everyone who listens to this show and everyone who wants to play pinball, you know, thank you. It's worth doing because of you guys. Those are awesome, man. Great job. I'm still a deep motherfucker if you think about it. It's rare that you do that, but when you do, you don't know as well. I make deep waters seem shallow and muddy.
    144:46
    There you go. Before you go, have you seen the movie yet, The Man Who Saved Pinball? I have not, and I've been meaning to watch it. On Apple TV. Yeah, I know you have to pay for it, but who cares? Six, you know, seven bucks cheaper than going to the theater. I want to watch it. So I'm watching it tonight with my wife, and we'll see what she thinks. Next month, we will all review Pinball, the man who saved the game. I think that's it, yeah. Yeah, that's correct. We'll review it. Another title that I can mess up, right? Just like Final Resistance. I'm totally excited to play Final Desolation.
    145:23
    You know? So With that Because we're pushing Two hours and 30 minutes We're going to be exactly at two hours and 30 minutes I'm looking at it right now Because no editing It'll be just full on 2.30, done, upload it No, I'm just kidding It won't be much editing It'll be a little bit because I keep hitting my mic stand, I'm sorry I haven't even heard it That's cool You do sound good Thank you. We're getting better. We're all improving. Take us out to our flagships. Well, I do, but I want to give one little thing real quick to our flagships. We're going to miss it.
    146:06
    No, no, SoundCloud. Listen to us on SoundCloud, iTunes, or some other place you find your podcasts. Email us at thespinnerislit at gmail.com and play pinball. Keep America strong.
    146:23
    Transcribed by ESO. Translated by —