Welcome everybody to Canadian Pinball Podcast. One word, well maybe two words, Kong and Elwin. That is what I'm hearing, that King Kong will be the next game from Stern Pinball. It is not going to be Dungeons and Dragons. It is going to be on Spike 3. There's going to be a price increase of $600, I'm hearing. And we're going to see it probably in the next four to six weeks. Remember that X-Men came out September 4th. So we are due for Stern's next blockbuster. Are they going to make it a Christmas gift to everybody in the pinball community? I know a price increase is the last thing you want to hear. I was thinking about it. It's like buying a Stern Keith Elwin LE now. It's kind of like sending your kid to college. Everybody wants to do it, but you don't want to spend the money. And this is where we're at. So we're going to talk about what this move means, that the big gorilla is up next from Stern. Now, we all knew it was coming. This is not a surprise to anybody. It's really hard for Stern to have any surprise games. We knew X-Men. We knew about Foo Fighters. We know about everything because it's such a big organization. A lot of loose lips. A lot of people know people who work at Stern. And so we've heard people say that Keith Elwin is the king of the monsters. You just heard that theme song from the original King Kong movie. I think it's going to be based on old Kong. I think it kind of has to be. Maybe they're going to get clips from the movies over the years. I highly doubt we're going to see what was it the Jeff Bridges movie where the twin towers are the buildings he climbs I doubt we're going to see that for reasons of sensitivity but King Kong is going to be huge for those of you out there there's people on my Patreon that are like this game's not going to sell out I'm going to tell you right now let's just stop being foolish Keith Elwin is the best pinball designer maybe of all time. He sells 40% of Stern's machines. I'm going to say something crazy right now. If it were not for Keith Elwin, I think pinball wouldn't look like what it does today. It would not have survived all these price increases. His games have been the only ones that have held value in the modern pinball world unless you're going to remake Metallica. Just listen to me for a minute right now. Foo Fighters right now. A Foo Fighters LE with the $2,000 topper and all the other accessories. You can go get it. I think Zach is selling one. You can go get it right now in perfect condition for $10,000. A $5,000 or more loss for someone who fully accessorized a Foo Fighters LE. Try to go find a single Jaws LE for sale. There is not a single one. Try to go find a Godzilla LE for anywhere near what it originally cost at $10,500. So I know you don't want this game to be expensive. Neither do I. I know some of you are rooting for Stern not to sell out of a thousand LEs on day one because it will like send them a message that we've had enough. And yes, that is true on games like Venom, on games like John Wick, on games like Dungeons and Dragons, right? Most of these B themes, not in a million years, will they ever hold value? Does it make sense to make a thousand LEs? But when it comes to Keith Elwin, King Kong, which is a more iconic IP in the United States of America than Godzilla, when it comes to Spike 3 with more upgrades and enhanced screen, better sound system, better lighting, everything that comes along with Spike 3, I mean, are we surprised they're going to raise the prices? they're putting more into the games is it going to justify a $600 increase it's funny because pinball prices only make sense in a vacuum and in a bubble because that's the price of a playstation 5 or xbox no they're not going to give you $600 worth they're going to make $600 more on probably another $200 that they put into the game. I would love to know the bomb on a modern stern. If any of us knew the bomb on a modern stern, we wouldn't buy any of this. There would be no way to justify it, right? I saw people speculating what they think the bomb is on that Metallica topper. I'm going to tell you right now, you people are so far off. The bomb on that topper is less than $100. someone was like I bet it cost her $500 to make that topper are you guys out of your minds $500 to make that topper there's no moving parts there's absolutely nothing of cost in that topper whatsoever lighting is cheap plastic is cheap metal screws are cheap $100 and they're selling it for $900 it's where the margins lie so let's get back to King Kong why did Dungeons and Dragons not make it out now Now I think for a few reasons It Brian Eddy He typically takes a longer time than most people to get his games to market But I think the real reason why we are seeing King Kong now and not Dungeons and Dragons if you look at Stern right now, their last cornerstone game was X-Men. That game is not doing very well. It is plagued with issues. and I don't think there's ever going to be a solve that makes that game what it should have been. Before X-Men, we had John Wick. And Stern is such a big company that having back-to-back games be sort of mediocre at best. Like John Wick was a flop. And you know, it's the end of the year. And every company wants to finish strong. And every company wants to go into the new year with some momentum. And that's just how companies operate. You want to finish strong and you want to start the new year on a good note. And if Dungeons and Dragons came out and it didn't do very well, you know, Keith Elwin's their slugger. He's their slugger. And if we use a baseball metaphor and you need some runs right now, you need some sales, you need a hit game, who are you going to hand the bat to and send to the plate? You're going to send Keith Elwin. The reason why Keith Elwin is so good, it's not just Keith Elwin. It's his whole team. He's by far got the best team surrounding him. Stern Pinball is smart. You guys think they're not. They're very smart. Seth is smart. George is smart. They know that this is their guy. This is their ringer. It's why his games are exponentially better than most everybody else's in the entire industry. Because what he brings to pinball is much more than just layout. If you want just layout, you go get a Steve Ritchie game. What Keith Elwin brings to the table, besides a great layout, you know the game's going to shoot well. You know it's going to have unique layout and creative shots and combos and be satisfying for a very long time. It's not going to be cookie cutter. It's going to have a lot of replay value. He also has a knack for putting fun toys and mechs into his games. They're in there. yes I kind of maybe do believe him that the shark eating the ball did not make the game that much fun actually I'm going to go back on that no how do you not have Jaws eat the ball still one of the biggest mech mistakes in all the pinball but Jurassic Park is amazing Godzilla is amazing Godzilla is still number one in many people's minds and it's right now currently sitting as the number one game of all time ranked by pinball enthusiasts, by modern pinball enthusiasts. And so when I think about King Kong and this King of the Monsters and Keith Elwin, and as I was saying, it's not just about the layout. The reason why he's so damn good is he also thinks about the rule set and the journey, and he designs the whole game in his head, right? He's not just thinking about the layout. He's like, what's the experience going to be like? If I'm making a roller coaster ride, what's the journey going to be like? You know, I want people to feel certain things as they go through my game. I don't think that happened with Jack Danger and Wison on X-Men. Doesn't feel like that at all. It feels like Jack designed such an amazing layout and him and Wison weren't on the same page and Wison couldn't deliver and execute what was in Jack's head. But when it comes to Keith Elwin, when he's thinking about layout, when he's thinking about like design and the experience, he's thinking about the modes. He's thinking about the music. He's thinking about the moments of wow. And he's leading a team of people that are all on the same page. Maybe the best metaphor is looking at Keith Elwin not as a pinball designer, but as a conductor standing over an orchestra and he's waving his hand and everybody knows when to build upon his design. And that is why Keith Elwin games are what people love. It is why Keith Elwin is maybe the best pinball designer of all time because he sees all of it. and he thinks about the angle on all of it. You know, I was a little nervous last night. I was like, well, is King Kong going to be as good as Godzilla? It's not as much fun. It's not as campy. I mean, think about King Kong as a movie in comparison to all the Godzilla movies. In Godzilla movies, if you're a Godzilla fan, Godzilla usually comes out of the ocean. He sort of stomps on all the tanks and destroys all the buildings. and we know there's a rubber guy in the suit doing all this comical stuff in most of those movies. He's got a baby Godzilla. He dances around. He flies through the air and he always survives. They never really kill Godzilla. Even when they stop him, he comes back. And that's what makes Godzilla so much fun. I mean, heck, Godzilla even made a cameo appearance in Pee-wee's Big Adventure. He's just this campy, iconic monster that even though we're supposed to be terrified of him, and he terrorizes the people of Japan, he kind of makes everybody else just smile in the absurdity of it all. And then when you play the Godzilla pinball machine, I think it captures that perfectly. And also Godzilla has an amazing theme song. He's got the energy. It's perfect for pinball. And then I think about King Kong. Totally different story. It's not really as fun. It's not really as campy. In fact, King Kong is a love story. It's a tragedy. It's a story of a big gorilla on an island that just wants to be left alone, who falls in love with a beautiful woman and just wants to protect her as humans want to parade him around like a sideshow freak That the story of King Kong He climbs to the top of the Empire State Building because it's the only thing that reminds him of home. And he's up there. And what do we do? We send airplanes after him and we shoot him time and time again until he's shot dead and falls down and dies on the pavement of New York City. That's the story of King Kong. It's a tragedy. Now, I was like, how are they going to make that work? How are they going to make that pinball game fun? And you know what? I'm not nervous anymore because I know Keith Elwin is going to find the right angle to do it right. Are you going to play as King Kong? Maybe. I think in Godzilla you play as Godzilla. But I also think King Kong is a game where you can make it all about high energy. You can kind of create the vibes of like a Jurassic Park. You know, there's a large gorilla on this island and you got to find him. Like that's part of the adventure. And then you got to find him and then you got to put him on the boat. And boat and take him to New York City and do all the stuff he does there. And then you got to stop him and save the girl when he gets to the top of the building. So maybe the angle is you're sort of an observer on the crew that's trying to capture King Kong. But I think maybe the more fun angle is going to be you play as Kong and all these humans are trying to trap you and you're trying to swat down the airplanes and you're trying to escape and you're trying to do this and that. I think that's going to be the angle. because also remember in a lot of the other King Kong movies, in almost every single one, he's doing something that Godzilla does that is actually the foundation for most of the code in Godzilla. King Kong is battling other creatures. And if you go back and watch the old King Kong movies, the Mighty Joe Young movies, he's always battling large creatures on Skull Island. So I think most of this game will be Kong on Skull Island battling other large creatures. You play as King Kong. And what I think they're going to do, I think that's going to be the setup of King Kong. And what I think they might do, you know how Keith Elwin has like the throwback Jaws code, like Jaws Revenge that feels like an 80s video game. I think they might do like a throwback King Kong mode where you play the original movie and go up the top of the Empire State Building. And I think that could be a really cool thing. If this game does not have a topper that features the Empire State Building and King Kong on it and airplanes swinging around. When I was a little kid, I bought a Snoopy in an airplane swinging around my ceiling fan for like 50 bucks. If they don't make a topper that's going to cost us one to two thousand dollars that features that what are we even doing here in this pinball hobby i was also wondering you know who's going to do the artwork on king kong is it going to be zombie yeti i mean he did godzilla but he also just did x-men i don't know i don't know who it's going to be you know kong's got a lot of source material from over the years. Personally, just this is me. This is me saying this personally. I really hope if they make a King Kong machine. I don't know if Yeti is the right style for Kong because I just feel like Kong should look more like the classic movie posters. I really do. I don't think you want to see more of like a more contemporary illustrated Kong that looks a little bit more cartoony. I don't think that's the timeless iconic sort of imagery of Kong that everybody wants we shall see what happens in the art department I'm sure it's going to look great Stern knows this game is really important now for you out there that is like wait and see and I said this to everybody this is why I would have waited on Evil Dead you're easily going to be able to get one. And by the time Spooky's made a few hundred, you're going to be able to cut the line on everybody else who's waiting. Avatar is dead on arrival. This is terrible news for Avatar CE owners. I mean it when I say it, and I tried to warn each and every one of you. I know you want your Avatar CE. You are now committed to spending $15,000 on one. By March of 2025, your Avatar CE will be the easiest game to get for $10,000 new in box if they make all 1,000 of those games. Your game has lost $5,000 in value. You just don't know it yet. And why would you even order one? They haven't even made a single one. They haven't spoken to you since they took your money. They haven't shown you that they have fixed the UV light issue because you know what? They have not. Have you seen the UV ink and how it works on your $15,000 non-refundable game? You have not. Why do you think they've gone dark on it? Because they don't have a solution for it. We're now seeing some Elton John CE playfields are falling apart. I don't even want to go down that road. Here we go again, right? I mean, that's it with Mirko. Here we go again. And I tell everyone, wait and see, wait and see. All these games are losing money. I've never seen a hobby like pinball where in just a few years, everything went from holding value and going up in value to significant losses on 90% of the product. If 90 of the stocks in the stock market lost the amount of money that these games are now losing nobody would invest in the stock market Nobody would buy into it And that's what's happening with pinball. People are just going to stop buying into new in box as they keep looking at everything losing money. And I'm talking to collectors now and people who used to buy every single game. They bought every new thing that came out. They went in on everything. and now they're not buying any new in box anymore. They're not gonna stop buying pinball. They're just gonna let the suckers run in and take the big hit and then they'll go buy the game six months down the road, a year down the road when the code's complete, when all the bugs have been ironed out and they're gonna save themselves three to $5,000. I mean, that's what the smart man does. But here's my final point on this game. If you want a Keith Elwin, King Kong Ellie, You can't wait and see. They're going to sell out day one. I'm on a list to get one, and so should you. I would hit up Melissa at Cointaker. Hit up Zach Manny. Hit up Nitro. Hit up everybody you know. Just get on a list. Just get on a list. No harm, no foul. At this stage, they're not going to take any money, right? Go hit up Mike at Automated. By the way, I'm going to be at Automated Pinball this weekend doing my Saturday show live from Automated Pinball. If you're near, anywhere near the Northeast, you guys should come to Automated Pinball, hang out at Mike's place, and let's see if we can get him to create a King Kong LE list. And maybe everyone who's there gets to be on the list. We'll see. I'll talk to him about it. I haven't run that by him yet. But just get on a list. because I'm telling you right now, even if this game is $13,600, it's going to sell out. It's just one of those iconic themes. And I don't think Stern has a ton of iconic stuff coming. I think they're in a little bit of a weird place right now. I really do. I feel like Elwynn Matters and everything else right now is an easy wait and see. And that's not good for Stern. This company was built on FOMO and day one sellouts of every LE. But trust me, don't sleep on this. And I'm going to say this right now. You might as well grab a King Kong LE even if you don't want to keep it. Yeah, Big Bad Kaneda, inspiring people to sort of speculate a little bit again. Good. We need more speculation. We need to see some games go up in value. If we don't see that, then this entire hobby is not going to survive. If you think otherwise, if you think a hobby like this with a non-essential toy that costs this much money can survive on every single game losing money, then you are rooting for the failure of pinball. You should be rooting for some games to go up on the secondhand market. And I know nobody loves scalping. It's part of a healthy collector market. If you try to remove that, look, if they really wanted to remove scalping, you can't do it. You can't remove scalping. It's just going to be part of it. All right. So that's my advice to each and every one of you. Get on a list. Don't sleep on it. You know, my condolences to everybody who has an Avatar CE. It's going to be one of the biggest sinking ships ever. And look, in just a few months, we're going to get Harry Potter, Jersey Jack. I don't know what to say. So when's there going to be a good time to release Cuphead? As American Pinball has been waiting for that window where Cuphead sales are going to take off. We don't want to get lost amongst these big games. They made a mistake. They should have launched Cuphead against Avatar and X-Men. So what, you're going to try to sneak that game in between King Kong and Harry Potter? Between Keith Elwin and Eric Minier's Harry Potter? And those two games are going to have enough sales to sort of eat up everybody's money and space over the next six months. Because everyone's out of space, let's be honest. I mean, it's not just the money. Yeah, the money sucks. These prices all suck for everybody. But most of you are just out of space. and that is why this hobby is going to struggle to grow. You just can't keep pumping out like six to ten games a year. There's no room for them and heck, I know each and every one of you are feeling it. Everywhere you go, the bill is so much higher than it used to be. Inflation is crazy. We're not nearly as wealthy as we were five years ago. It's just reality for everybody and these games are 40% more money. It's just stupid. It's all stupid. Everybody, I want to end this show on a sad note. It is with great heavy heart. We heard the news yesterday that Todd Tuckey's beautiful wife passed away. Todd, we are thinking about you. You're in our thoughts and our prayers. I was hoping to see Todd Saturday at Automated. I don't know if he'll make it, but Todd, I know I can speak for everybody in this hobby that we love you, we're thinking about you, and we know this is a devastating time. And if there's anything you need from me or anybody in this hobby, you know, just reach out and we will be there. Everybody count your blessings. Every day above ground is a good day. Life is way too short. What makes it valuable are the relationships we have with the people we love. That is it. These machines don't love you. They're not going to tell stories about you. They are not your legacy. Your home arcade is not your family. The most important thing in life is family, loyalty, and love. And I mean that. And I know all of you know that too. Very smart people in this hobby. Very smart people in this hobby. Except for the people who bought Avatar CE. Everybody, have a great day. We'll talk to you soon.