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Episode 84 - The Bally Table King: George Christian

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 2m·analyzed·May 26, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Deep dive into George Christian, Bally's forgotten design genius and creator of the best-selling pinball machine ever.

Summary

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast explores the life and design legacy of George Christian, Bally's prolific solid-state designer (1976-1982) whose games sold over 100,000 units but whose personal history remains largely undocumented. Hosts discuss Christian's design hallmarks, his mentorship under Norm Clark, his most famous title (8-Ball, best-selling pinball of all time with 20,233 units), and his mysterious departure from the industry to open a pizza shop in Melrose Park, taking his story with him.

Key Claims

  • George Christian was an Iranian immigrant who adopted an Americanized name to assimilate

    high confidence · Confirmed by Greg Fraris per hosts; Christian left Iran before the 1979 revolution

  • 8-Ball is the best-selling pinball machine of all time with 20,233 units sold, a record that stood until 1992 when Pat Lawlor's Addams Family sold 40,000+ units

    high confidence · Stated as historical fact by hosts with specific unit counts

  • George Christian refused to attend pinball expos for the last 35 years and is reportedly bitter about how his pinball career ended

    medium confidence · Hosts cite this as widely known but unconfirmed; no first-person verification provided

  • After leaving Bally, George Christian opened a pizza shop in Melrose Park that closed within the last 10 years and kept a personal 8-Ball Deluxe in the lobby

    medium confidence · Described as hearsay/rumor but treated as likely true by hosts; details not independently verified

  • Norm Clark mentored George Christian in a relationship described as mentor-and-apprentice but Clark did not receive design credits on Christian's games

    medium confidence · Multiple sources cited by hosts including unnamed pinball historian; some debate exists whether Clark was ghostwriting designs

  • Dave Christensen (Bally artist) allegedly snuck George Christian's original surname onto the back glass of Nitro Ground Shaker as a jab

    medium confidence · Hosts cite unnamed source who knew both men; speculate Dave may have been upset about name similarity/theft

  • Freedom (1976) was George Christian's first design credit and Bally's first solid-state game

    high confidence · Stated as confirmed historical fact; game was commercially successful

  • Future Spot (1979) featured the 'horniest art package of all time' with art by both Paul Ferris and Dave Christensen

    low confidence · Subjective opinion/humor from host; Lonnie Anderson image appears multiple times on machine

Notable Quotes

  • “George Christian is effectively a ghost, and on this week's episode, we are joined by our good buddy Ty Palmer to tell some ghost stories.”

    Alan (host) @ early in episode — Establishes the core theme: Christian's mysterious erasure from pinball history despite his massive commercial success

  • “His whole life story is shrouded in far too much mystery, and despite well over a year of us trying to uncover more details, we are still left with more questions than answers.”

    Alan (host) @ opening section — Underscores the depth of historical gaps around Christian despite being second-best-selling game designer

  • “I owned an 8-ball deluxe at some point. I cherished that machine... You can throw a brand new JJP or some boutique game across town and I won't go out of my way to play it necessarily. Hell no. But if a new George Christian game or new-to-me game pops up, that's something I will definitely go out of my way to go play.”

    Alan (host) @ design discussion section — Demonstrates the enduring appeal and quality of Christian's designs compared to modern luxury manufacturers

  • “He didn't just fucking if you hated this and you just wanted to move on past that, you wouldn't keep like the biggest, loudest piece of your history in the lobby of your new business.”

    Ty Palmer @ post-industry career section — Suggests Christian retained affection for pinball despite reportedly leaving the industry bitter

  • “Their layouts might not look in a static way... but they're dialed and they let the rules really speak for themselves. And it's like they just make such addicting games.”

    Alan (host) @ design hallmarks discussion — Articulates why Christian's games endure: design philosophy prioritizes playability over aesthetic novelty

  • “Nobody hears George's. But I think his games speak for themselves.”

    Ty Palmer @ Norm Clark comparison section — Core argument: Christian's absence from public record is compensated by his game legacy

  • “I've been thinking about Brian Eddy a lot just because of some of the hate that fucking D&D is getting for some reason... I can't hear all the hate opening up the cash box every day and just dumping out the quarters from it.”

Entities

George ChristianpersonNorm ClarkpersonDave ChristensenpersonPat LawlorpersonTy PalmerpersonAlanperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: George Christian's games generated massive operator revenue through high player engagement and short game length (avg 30 seconds for 8-Ball), explaining 20,233-unit sales despite brutal difficulty

    high · Hosts discuss 8-Ball as 'quarter suck' that makes operators 'bank'; players burn $30 in quarters in afternoon sessions; game averaged 30-second length

  • ?

    community_signal: Possible interpersonal conflict between George Christian and artist Dave Christensen, evidenced by Christensen allegedly placing Christian's surname on Nitro Ground Shaker back glass as subtle jab or statement

    low · Hosts cite unnamed source who knew both men; speculate misspelling and placement suggests intentionality; Nitro was final collaboration between designer and artist

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts and community deeply appreciate George Christian's design philosophy and actively seek out and play his games despite being 40+ years old, demonstrating enduring mechanical/gameplay appeal over aesthetic novelty

    high · Alan states he will drive across town to play a Christian game but not a new JJP; hosts discuss burning $30 in quarters at Lady Luck in single afternoon

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Some industry figures theorize Norm Clark ghostwrote or significantly co-designed Christian's games, though hosts and available evidence suggest Christian as primary designer with Clark as mentor/guide

    low · Unnamed historian allegedly proposed ghostwriting theory; hosts counter that Freedom prototype center pop is only clear Norm influence; subsequent games feel distinctly different from Clark's EM work

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.187

0:30
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. I am your host, Alan, one of the owners of Wedgehead in Portland, Oregon. I'm joined in the basement studio with two of my good friends, my normal co-host Alex the Waterboy and our great friend Ty Palmer, who you might recognize from his previous work on this very podcast. I'm starting to feel like Alec Baldwin on SNL. It's like fourth or fifth. Yeah, I feel like Alec Baldwin. We're going to keep the guns away from him. Yeah, true. Yeah. Hey, they took it off John Wick.
1:21
Hey, we're not here to talk about new controversies. No. The tie's here. We're here to talk about good games. But before we get into the good games, it's my turn to plug the coffee fundraiser. We're raising funds. We're trying to get to Colorado, visit our buddy AJ in Pueblo, see some of the cool stuff out there that Manitou Springs Penny Arcade has now. It's getting every week. We get more people telling us we've got to make sure we get there. So that's higher priority. But anyway, if you're a fan of the show, you like us doing episodes every week, you want to support us, we always appreciate it. If you can throw us a few bucks, you also get an invite to our private Discord server where we're always just in there. We're chopping it up. That's kind of like the tagline for it, right? Chopping it up. Chopping it up with the boys. So come in there, throw us a few bucks, get in the Discord, chop it up with the boys. It's actually been a pretty fun time. Go to coffee.com, click in the show notes, ko-fi.com slash wedgetpodcast, donate a couple bucks, keeps us making the show, keeps us unsponsored and unfiltered. Yeah, we're not getting any stern toppers over here. Just raw content. Raw, hot content. 1-800-HOT-PINBALL-ACTION. The reason we're all here today, we're discussing one of the best-selling and most underappreciated names in the history of pinball. His whole life story is shrouded in far too much mystery, and despite well over a year of us trying to uncover more details, we are still left with more questions than answers. We have recently resurrected and restored three of the man's best games, and have placed them onto the floor at Wedgehead for everyone to come and play after listening to this episode. The topic of today's show, of course, is George Christian, Bally's best designer through their highly celebrated early solid-state golden era from 1976 to 1982, an era that we previously covered all the way back in episode 18, the Susan B. Anthony years of Bally Pinball with Ty Palmer. Oh, yeah. That was a fun one. It was such a good episode. Go back and listen to it in the archives if you haven't already. By the end of the 1980s, George had left Valley Midway and pretty much left behind anything to do with his pinball career as well. The man behind the second best-selling game of all time is now relegated to some flavorless IPDB credit listings and not much else. George Christian is effectively a ghost, and on this week's episode, we are joined by our good buddy Ty Palmer to tell some ghost stories. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is something we wanted to tackle a long time ago, but ran into, you know, just some cold trails. and it was going to fall hot on the heels of the Mark Ritchie and Steve Ritchie episodes. It was going to be like episode five. Yeah, like really early in the run. And once you guys came out with the episode, I loved it. I'm like, oh, man, I want to be on. I want to talk about George. And they're like, cool, what do we know about George? I'm like, I have a computer. I don't know. I didn't find shit. And I think most of the stuff you found was in books and then talking to other folks. Yeah, it's kind of an insane one because we go into all these episodes and we're not just trying to give you necessarily like a history lesson, but we want to provide some context when we talk about the games, right? We're here to talk about the games, but we want to give you a little background. And most of the time, that's fairly easy to do, because most guys in pinball are very well documented, especially if they've created such massive hits as George Christian. But he is not well documented at all. Just couldn't find much. We don't have a lot of, like, on-the-record first-person sources. It's people that worked in the industry at the time, and people that knew Norm Clark, who we'll talk about in this episode as well, and talked to him over the years and their sort of recollections but it's hard because he didn't show up a lot yeah it also isn't should we kind of launch into the mystique around the man here yeah as we're saying there's a lot of mystique to george christian so yeah upon my research you know i actually you know formed some of my own theories you know once finding out that george wasn't really his real name george christian isn't his birth name he was an iranian immigrant and when he began working in the pitbull business he picked a new name that he thought sounded as american as possible yeah he should be 84 years old or around there by now for anyone uh you know that's just kind of curious what era of man we're talking about here and we confirmed with greg fraris that he was an iranian immigrant that was working up so he was a very nice very kind of quiet guy working nice so yeah he left iran right before the shah was displaced and the itola took over So he left before the revolution. He probably just wanted to blend in. Or maybe, one of my first fan theories was, you know, he was smuggled through the Italian pipeline, through Cosa Nostra and even the Chicago Mafia. But, you know, yeah, they snuck him in. They brought him through New York, you know, Ellis Island, got his paperwork dialed. He got some good pizza in New York. They brought him to Chicago. And then he told those, like, Chicago gangsters, like, Chicago pizza style sucks. Like, what is Chicago style? Like, have you had a Chicago-style burrito? Isn't that just dip? It's just fucked up. He said something like that. He had to go and witness protection and get a new name. That's where my brain was at. That's about not too far from, like, what you can find out. And there's no evidence to the contrary. No, so I can make stuff up. But I'm making stuff up now. It comes full circle. Once we go to where George ended up after his time in pinball, there might be some foreshadowing. Yeah, no, and there's some foreshadowing with some of the game names, too. So before you're like, Ty is crazy, he's lost it. He's no longer on the podcast. Just hear me out. Ty, you know, before we go further on this episode, our second biggest city as far as listenership is the city of Chicago, Illinois. So, you know. Yeah. Don't get us put in the witness protection. No, no, no. Just me. Like George found himself in. I'm going to raise my hand and be like, I don't like your pizza. Their hot dogs are good. Sorry. They like that fluorescent. Prove me wrong. You know, fly me out there. Fly me out there on your dime. On your dime. For me to try your pizza and make me shut up on this podcast. Then I'll go back on and be like, yeah, that's actually.

Alan (host) @ design philosophy comparison — Draws parallel between Christian and modern Stern designer Brian Eddy: both criticized aesthetically but mechanically sound and commercially successful

  • “It's one of those things where it's the sum of all, it's more than the sum of its parts because it's like yeah there's other bonus heavy games there's other games with all of these trademarks maybe but nothing else plays like a george christian game.”

    Alex the Waterboy @ design hallmarks section — Encapsulates Christian's design philosophy: combination of familiar elements executed to perfection, not revolutionary features

    • Alex the Waterboy
    person
    Paul Ferrisperson
    Greg Frarisperson
    8-Ballgame
    Freedomgame
    Future Spotgame
    Dolly Partongame
    Nitro Ground Shakergame
    Ballycompany
    Wedgeheadorganization
    Wedgehead Pinball Podcastorganization
    Brian Eddyperson
    Henry Winklerperson
    Addams Familygame
    Melrose Parklocation

    design_philosophy: George Christian's design characterized as 'sum greater than parts': familiar mechanical elements (spinners, pops, orbits) combined to create unique, addictive, mechanically challenging games that prioritize playability over aesthetic novelty

    high · Extended discussion of design hallmarks; comparison to Brian Eddy's mechanically sound but aesthetically controversial D&D at Stern

  • $

    market_signal: George Christian positioned as 'forgotten genius' whose commercial success and design influence are disproportionate to his historical recognition and public documentation

    high · Episode premise; repeated statements that Christian is 'effectively a ghost' despite designing second-best-selling game of all time; contrast with Pat Lawlor's documented fame

  • ?

    leak_detection: Dave Christensen's placement of George Christian's surname on Nitro Ground Shaker back glass suggests artist had access to/knowledge of Christian's birth name, indicating closer working relationship or deliberate research

    medium · Hosts note Christensen knew surname was misspelled, suggesting intentional placement rather than error; last collaboration between designer and artist

  • $

    market_signal: 8-Ball's 20,233-unit sales record (1977-1992) represents peak commercial success in classic pinball era; record broken by Addams Family (40,000 units) after Bally released special 1,000-unit gold edition

    high · Specific unit counts provided; 15-year dominance of 8-Ball before Addams Family overtook record; subsequent special edition by Pat Lawlor indicates awareness of 8-Ball legacy

  • ?

    community_signal: Iranian immigrant designer who adopted Americanized name 'George Christian' for assimilation; reportedly bitter about pinball career ending; refused public appearances for 35+ years; retained personal 8-Ball in pizza shop lobby suggesting continued affection for medium

    medium · Confirmed by Greg Fraris as Iranian immigrant; pizza shop details from unnamed historian; exile pattern consistent across sources but details unverified by Christian himself

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Norm Clark served as engineering/design department head and mentor to George Christian at Bally (1976+); some speculation he may have ghostwritten Christian designs, though hosts find this unlikely based on game feel differences

    medium · Multiple sources cite mentor-apprentice relationship; unnamed historian allegedly suggested ghostwriting; hosts argue game feels too distinct from Clark's EM designs to support this

  • ?

    technology_signal: Bally's transition from EM to solid-state (1976-1982) represented by Christian's designs; initial solid-state games retained chime units to ease player transition anxiety

    high · Freedom and 8-Ball include chime units; hosts explain Bally's concern that players would avoid electronic sound-only machines

    • 7:12
    As far as things that we have confirmation of or that we can find down in print, one of the few places that you'll actually see George Christian's real name referenced anywhere is actually on the back glass of one of his games. The late Dave Christensen, who, if you guys aren't aware, for any listeners, very talented artist for Bally that passed away just a couple of years ago. his full name, worth noting Dave Christensen's full name is David George Christensen, and he snuck George Christian's original surname onto the fender of one of the cars on the Nitro Ground Shaker back glass. I've been told by someone that knew both of these guys fairly well that Dave didn't like that George stole, in quotes, his name, which combined with the fact the surname appears to be misspelled, it makes me think that Dave did this kind of as a jab. I don't know the full nature of their relationship. It could all be they could have been best buddies. We'll never know because nobody has any of this documented. But I do want to just I just want to put it out there that you might understand why George wouldn't have felt super comfortable in the industry at this time. You can see that. I'm just I want to kind of lay that out there because it's like, why would he just like bail on this when things went south and never come back to pinball? And you're like, it might not have been super friendly for him at the time. Yeah, especially coming from Iran, and he's like, I'm going to put your name a little bit, you know? Yeah, right. Suddenly now I'm Water Bow.
    8:35
    Like, no, that's me now. The judge thought it was cool. I'm going to clarify. I mean, there's some rumors. There's some smoke. You all can decide whether or not there is fire beyond that smoke as far as how it pertains to Dave Christensen. I don't want to speak one way or the other about it. Yeah, it's just a little interesting. To further to the mystery, George flat out refused to attend any pinball expo for the last 35 years or so. He's supposedly very bitter about the way his pinball career ended, which we'll get to a little bit later. That's a shame. So that's kind of part of why there's so much speculation here is that while other folks have gotten their stories told, George has just been left behind in time. We don't know his side of any of these stories, so all we can do is speculate. Yeah, and the word is that after leaving the industry, he opened up a pizza shop in Melrose Park, which closed somewhat recently within the last 10 years. He brought New York style to Chicago.
    9:31
    And he supposedly did keep his personal 8-Ball Deluxe in the lobby, which gives us hope that some of the flame of pinball still burns inside of him. Yeah, I wrote that. It gives you hope, though, right? He didn't just fucking if you hated this and you just wanted to move on past that, you wouldn't keep like the biggest, loudest piece of your history in the lobby of your new business. It was the one that sold twenty thousand. But eight ball deluxe is probably the one that people most associate with George Christian. Yeah, he's most famous. And that kind of sums up the history section of this. That's like all we know. Alex spoke in depth to a person that wants to remain nameless, apparently. Yeah, because of the Dave Christians. And so there's you know, there's a lot of people that don't want to be the people that spill the beans or let out the industry secrets. We're not attached to the industry at all. So, you know, we're not getting money from Bali so we can say whatever we want.
    10:26
    Just say people have been talking about it for a while. And, you know, Alex talked to an old pinball historian, let's say, who knew all these guys. And, you know, that's what we based a lot of this episode on, as well as what we can find on the Internet and what I can find in old books. and what was recorded on old ancient internet forums in the early 2000s. A lot of forum digging in the pinball game, the rec room, whatever, the pinball game room. Rec.game stuff, yeah. Margaret Hudson didn't have too much to say on the matter either. Yeah, nobody has much to say about it, and nobody has much to say about George, which I think is unfortunate. But we want to get to some of his design hallmarks. If you're listening to the show and you're wondering, who's this guy we're talking about, it's the reason why we wanted to do this show and we wanted to talk about them years ago when we started this show was because all three of us are big George Christian fans. Absolutely. I owned an 8-ball deluxe at some point. I cherished that machine. I chased those machines around the city. They're like the one games. It's kind of funny. You can throw a brand new JJP or some boutique game across town and I won't go out of my way to play it necessarily. Hell no. But if a new George Christian game or new-to-me game pops up, that's something I will definitely go out of my way to go play. And there's times like where Waterboy and I just went to C-Bar and played only Lady Luck. And they have 12 other machines. We only played that and burned about $30 and quarters on that in an afternoon. Easily. And nothing else. Yeah. It's that good. He is that good of a designer. And the thing about his designs is for some people, you might look at just photographs of his play fields. And I urge you to if you've never seen his games. But you may not recognize what makes his games special until you actually get to play them. It's something we all chase and we all play all the time. But I'll say some of the George Christian hallmarks are spinners on the orbits. Orbit spinners are big. George Christian exposed central pops, you know, a center formation of three. Kind of in the top center of the play field. At the time, it wasn't uncommon to see that. But his use of pops are always the kind of like goofy off center, like cluster. Yeah, they they feel like a fingerprint. Yeah, no true, like perfect geometry. There's no Sosley's triangle formation of the pops. And they're brutal. And they always put you in danger. It's man shit. Yeah. You know? You wonder what, you know, Iranian pinball could have been, you know, from what the Iron Sheik tells me. It's just all outlanes and pop bumpers everywhere. Nothing. And you gamble with your life every game. No rubber, only wood. Only, dude. That's a George, like, you're like the outlanes with no rubber on the outside. Yeah. It's pure man shit. Yeah. Just a little metal staple and the wood rails on the outside. I always think the play fields are super well balanced. You always have something to shoot for from either flipper. And you usually get bonus collects in the game. And sometimes his games have multiple bonuses, like two bonuses in them that you can collect separate of each other. They're just fun, man. They're just really challenging. They're really hard. I've been thinking about Brian Eddy a lot just because of some of the hate that fucking D&D is getting for some reason. and people being like, I see... I can't hear all the hate opening up the cash box every day and just dumping out the quarters from it. But it reminds me, like both of these guys, it's like their layouts might not look in a static way. You're like, this isn't anything that extraordinary, but they're dialed and they let the rules really speak for themselves. And it's like they just make such addicting games, both those guys from their respective eras. And so it's like, it's one of those things where it's the sum of all, it's more than the sum of its parts because it's like yeah there's other bonus heavy games there's other games with all of these trademarks maybe but nothing else plays like a george christian game you'll look at it you're like oh it's simple to approach you know you just have to do these few things and the mechanic of playing it is very difficult and like it has forced to change my playing style when i first learned how to play has become a defensive player first yeah you try to save absolutely everything and then make your fucking what'll make you lose your mind if you see run into ty palmer at wedget and watch him nudge and rattle balls off of a metal staple with no rubber off of off the side wood rail and back into an in lane to save a ball it's man shit and he learned that he grew his hair on his chest by playing those george christian games you cut your fucking teeth on the george christian oh yeah yeah it happened through uh yeah renting machines from roads and buying that eight ball deluxe and just spending time learning how to bounce that out is brutal it's hard and it makes you a better player these games will make you a better player yeah yeah better shooter absolutely better saving certainly a better defensive pinball player but let's talk about george's career he started on the production line in the 1970s perfect place to hide if you're in um witness protection i'm just saying just saying i don't know script role yeah you know blend in in 1976 norm clark had come over from the rival manufacturer Williams and oversaw and ran the engineering and design department at Valley He took a shine to George and took him under his wing from all the people that I talked to the relationship between George and Norm was extremely close in something akin to like a mentor and apprentice. Yep. You know, and I think Alex can confirm that with. Yep. That's what I heard as well. It sounded like very much at this time, Norm, for anyone unaware, Norm was an absolutely legendary designer that made some of the best fucking EMs of all time. But at this point, he was really trying. He kind of was in like a George Gomez role for Bally, like George Gomez now at Stern. Yeah. But for Bally back in the mid-70s. And so he was really trying to usher in this new era of designers. And George Christian especially seemed to work very closely with him. The first game together was Freedom. It's George Christian's first credit as a designer. And it was supposedly under the very close direction of Norm Clark. If you ever see a prototype Freedom, it's got a center pop, which is awesome. center pop games are the best it's basically the exact same lower third that uh norm clark had used on his spanish eyes in fantastic the three inch flipper center pop games he did he's the only person that ever did three inch center or three inch flipper center pop games norm clark was kind of the king of center pops and that's how you know he was working on this shit yeah george christian would have come in and be like i'm gonna do one of those weird ones like norm right up norm was there first you know and that's kind of like the telltale sign because i don't think norm has Does he have a design credit anywhere on that or is it just kind of like known? He doesn't have any of these design credits on any of these games. Now, it's not uncommon for what Norm did at this time to take and head up a design department and he's no longer actively designing play fields. Yeah. This is something that's happened over the years, over and over at every pinball company. Wayne Nines, the famous EM designer at Gottlieb, was running the division. And then Ed Krinsky comes up and becomes the Gottlieb designer for the three inch flipper era. Right. And but Wayne Nines was head of the engineering department and was there to guide and be like, use their experience. This happened with Jim Patla and Steve Kordick, two other designers that were ended up being at Bally and Williams. And they didn't design any more games in the late 80s and the 90s. But all those young designers, they were there and Patla and Kordek were there to help, you know, with the institutional knowledge of building pinball machines and getting them made and all that. And so that's what Norm was doing at this point. Do you see any crossover between this relationship? Like you guys love Spanish Eyes and UConn and some of those like Norm Clark classic games from his classic games to some of George's games. Some of those hallmarks carry over from era to era. Do you see anything rub off? So this is the weird thing to me is other than the like the Center Pop, which didn't make it to production of this Freedom, which I wish it would have. I wish we would have got that. Oh, it looks so good. Personally, I don't know. And I was looking back at someone else. Roanoke Penalty Museum. Nick Shell, I think is his name, is like Center Pop fan number one. He has everything about Center Pop games well documented in his write up about the Bally. He owns one of the Bally Freedom prototypes. and he points out that there's a lot of similarities to old Chicago. Yeah. The spinner location and a bank of drops in a similar space. And his speculation, again, just speculation, is that Norm Clark was kind of dipping into, I can't remember the designer of old Chicago, but he was kind of like, Norm showed up at Bally. He got to play with the new spinners because they didn't really have, like, yeah, that in his era he wasn't using spinners. And so he got the Bally spinners, he got the Bally, like, drops in a row, which wasn't something that you really saw in williams games at least not that i can think of and so his idea was like it was like it was kind of like norm like getting to play with the new toy box which makes sense because it doesn't feel like another norm game besides the center it feels more like a george christian game this is the argument some people we talk to alex's unnamed sorts to add to the mystique of this episode yeah sorry we have to hide his identity they asked so we will they seem to think that Norm was essentially ghostwriting or ghost designing all of these George Christian games. I personally, even though I did not work there and I know nothing about the situation, the games feel a lot different to me. The George Christian games feel a lot different than Norm's earlier career. They do. I'm not saying that he wasn't the mentor to George. I'm not saying he wasn't there helping him cut those whitewoods and heavily involved, but they feel very different to me if nothing else if norm really was masterminding all of this still george being there made a massive change on his approach to design i also find it weird you're like you want no credit like none ever at all no credit he was still in the industry for a long time after he was in the industry and then he was going to shows and stuff until he died in the mid-2000s i can't yeah with my limited like norm clark knowledge i feel like a lot of his games have very different footprints whereas like george christian games have pretty similar hallmarks to them yeah the way the geometry of the orbits are really unique geometry because the entry point is odd and hard to get into and even like just the cluster of three pop bumpers are usually you know always there and i don't really see that like in spanish eyes and a few other games you know like it's just i don't see too much i don't either but there are some people you'll talk to and again because we don't get George's story. George grew disillusioned, which we'll get into on this episode. He left the pinball industry. He never went to all the expos, but Norm did. Norm went to every single expo until he died. Everyone got to talk to Norm. Everyone got to meet Norm. Norm gave seminars at these expos. So everyone hears Norm's side of the story. And you know what I mean? Nobody hears George's. But I think his games speak for themselves. I want to just to finish up with Freedom. That game was a big success. It was Bally's first solid state game. they made an em version and a solid state and they sold a shit ton of them i don't have units in front of me but it was actually like a very popular game yeah very popular george just kind of like regardless of george and norm on this one they knocked it out of the park like right away they brought bally into the solid state era with a hit yeah and george's second game was eight ball in 1977 and that became the highest selling pinball machine of all time with 20 233 units sold This record would stand until 1992 when Pat Lawler's The Addams Family sold 40 more units originally, but then they later ran a special gold edition of 1,000 additional units to put a little distance on that odometer, I guess.
    22:08
    But 8-Ball features what I think is the first kickback lane on the left side, something that Steve Ritchie would later use in many of his games and would kind of become a hallmark of Ritchie games. Yeah. This game, I can definitely see the left sling to the flipper looks a lot like Norm Clark games in the way he liked to attach the flipper to the edge of a sling. This is where on 8-Ball and on Freedom, when you look at certain images of these games, I can see a little bit of Norm in these games. Makes sense. So I understand it when people say that. I think we lose some of those vestigial Norm tales. In the 80s. Yeah. But I think you can still see it on this game. It famously features a likeness without permission of actor Henry Winkler and his famous character, the Fonz, from the TV show Happy Days. That's what some people think. And I think 8-Ball, he's throwing signs to the FBI that the Chicagoland Mafia is dealing blow. And that's not actually the Fonz. That's Nicky Spilantro. Oh. Yeah. Nicky was featured in the movie Casino. Yeah. Of course. Not as handsome as the Fonz, but Fonz-like.
    23:12
    So, hey. You can't prove that that's not true. I got thumbtacks. I got yarn. I got theories. You got theories here. I got theories, dude. They also, this game has chime units in them because, as Alex said, with Freedom, this is the first gen of their solid state games. They were still worried that some players weren't going to play the new games with electronic sounds. So some of these games have chime units in them. 8-Ball is one of them. And I think that's kind of why people like it a lot. I think people like chimes. We've heard, oh, it's charming. It takes you back. there's a reason why everyone likes stars it's also brutally hard i would say oh god all george christian games i'm like this is a motherfucker it looks so friendly when you approach it they sold 20 000 because this thing was probably making operators bank it's so good dude it is a quarter suck that game kicks your dick in it's still fun like i really every time i see an eight ball i definitely go play like you know 10 games in about five minutes oh yeah i really like that thing Yeah, because the average length of that game is 30 seconds. Exactly. And I'm like, dude, that's what we need more of. If anyone's listening to this, if any boutique manufacturers are listening to this, and I know some of you are, you should make a game like 8-Ball for us, please. The next George Christian game is Future Spot. It came out in 1979, sells 6,400 units as an ultra-wide body. It has a very wild layout, and this is something that's pretty wild. And I don't think George would ever really try again. It also probably features the horniest art package of all time, with both Paul Ferris and Dave Christensen going full horndog on the art package here. Because they split duties. Paul Ferris did the back glass, and Dave Christensen did the playfield art. Well, they were in sync with what they wanted to go for. Oh, yeah. Who do you think had the crush on Lonnie Anderson? Because she appears on the machine like three times. It's just what the reference photos they could get at the time. Yeah. Or their favorite magazines. Yeah, that game's awesome. That's one that you're going to have at Wedge here soon at the time of recording. It'll be one of these that'll be on the floor that you guys can come in and play. And this is where, if you hear the term wide body and you're new to pinball, you're like, oh, wide? There's like different games. You're like, there's no mistaking this game is fucking wide. This thing's real wide. The valley wide bodies are proper wide. Yeah. Cadillac wide. Texas wide. Huge. They need to make bigger lanes on the road just for the trucks moving these things. but also in the same year 1979 dolly parton comes out and sells 7 350 units again art by dave christiansen uh also notably from our band episode the only uh woman artist yeah music artist to ever get their own pinball machine yeah it's dolly parton she's worth it absolutely hell yeah awesome game yeah george i mean again just you had it on the floor for dolly's birthday a while back yeah we threw a whole birthday party for dolly parton and we had the game on the floor and that was a great time and it was fun to rip that game make it steep make it hard and like i was like god damn this game was fun nitro ground shaker came out in 1980 sold 7 950 units art by dave christensen again so it's weird if they had beef because they work together a lot that's why i'm like i don't want i can only speculate i don't know the nature of the relationship they work together on so many great classic games this thing has an awesome art package this is one of the few times where i feel like the art package of a george christian game stronger than the the layout it's not my favorite one of his layouts but i do love this thing because i just you know it's like classic drag racing art it's got a very funny like a funny car vega or something i can't remember it's been a while since i seen it it's a big drag race yeah drag race like the whole game is just full of like dave christiansen loved easter eggs and there's so many little like hidden things there's like a like a melting piston laying on the asphalt there and stuff yeah there's all kinds of cool shit in this one it is a fun game does it still have chimes at this point no no i'm thinking of another i'm thinking of something else but yeah it's i i just like that thing just because of the art package yeah and uh is this the last game they worked on together it might be i think it is yeah so like maybe they had this relationship for a couple games and then things just went sour and this is the one where he put his name on it yeah full name so he must have said something that's it is i didn't really put that i didn't put two and two together this is the last time they work together i also don't know at this point in time how closely the artist or even today how closely do the artist and the designer of the game really work together probably not especially back then probably not that close but probably close enough that you know how to spell their name if you're going to put it on i mean they're in the same building yeah so you see each other five days a week but i will say this game pales in comparison to what followed after it. A surprisingly weak seller at only 3,950 units, which companies now would kill for. But it's one of the best games of all time. It's Mystic. Came out in 1980. Art by Kevin O'Connor. What do you guys think about this game? Top notch, A+. Five stars. S-tier. It's just so, so fucking good. Underrated, you know? Super underrated. Kind of like, for George Harrison Pinball, this is what Barry Lyndon is to Kubrick films, you know? like it's very it's masterfully executed a very technical level highly glanced over by the masses and it's really really easy to cuss at yeah you'll see an incredibly frustrating game it's a deceptive you look at it quick glance you're like oh it's a symmetrical layout and you're like no it's not and those nuances will fuck you like you find one spinner shot you can't find the other spinner shot yeah they do they got spinners on the orbits like george christian has they're deceptively hard like george christian spinners are yeah kind of a complicated but captive ball shot is so good it works well it feels kinetics on it it just it's visceral it's a long captive ball like the ball goes all the way up the play field when you hit it it's in like if you have enough time it stops the momentum kills on your ball enough that you really get to like appreciate it and you're like pop and you're just like yeah i got it's one of those little touches that you find in george christian games and we'll talk about in his next game coming up but that's the one that that stands out on this game it also has a grid uh where you're trying to collect two different bonuses again another common thing where you're trying to collect pyramids or all seeing eyes and you there's a whole grid controlled by three drop target banks what i always think about with this game is that captive ball shot and i just think about like damn what a captive ball shot like captive ball shots are kind of boring in most games a lot of captive balls suck which is doing a district because captive balls are awesome i love i love like the idea of a good cat you got to be able to see the ball the amount of travel too and the travel it's just perfect like it's the exact amount like you can smack it with with your ball it'll kill it but you get to see it roll up and hit the target like the insert it gives you the sound effect it's perfect yeah like the light show too yeah you said the answer is it just steps up every time you tag it yeah it is perfect that's what i notice about these george christian games there's like it's little it's the little tweaks and the little massages on his games that make them fucking a plus like perfect 100 and to those drops too they put you in danger oh my god dude and critical if you want to accumulate that bonus and cash that out you have to put yourself in danger yeah you're just straight up and down he makes you hit dangerous shots that's a common theme in all of his games 100 percent that's so good the next game is frontier also came out in 1980 this is the lowest selling game of this golden era it only sold 1850 units art by greg fraris yeah also one of like the best games of all time this is probably all of our favorite george christian yeah yeah yeah i think it hard to argue against it is a perfect game again two different bonuses to collect orbit spinner bonus collect saucer hole it got inline drops on the left side this one has like everything I kind of associate with the George and it probably because of this game and how much time I spent on it but it's, like, everything I associate with him is, like, really well executed on here. It's got the inline drops on the left, and they're on that curved feed. So every time you go back further by one drop, it's a more dangerous feed back out of there, which is just like beautifully well done it's so good i love the bonus collect on this one because it's not a sure shot you have to rip that orbit have it bounce all the way back and collect in there or you can backdoor it through one of the pops yeah you love the little sneak in sneak in yeah it's great you know just allowing that you could have walled it off yeah but just the ability to sneak right back in there and collect it again yeah and it's not like a game changing that bonus that you get out of there isn't like massive so it's kind of like a nice thing because it's like when you get it you're it's not like oh if you can't sneak it in there you're fucked yeah you're like it's just like a good pinball moment but when you do build your entire den and if you build almost like one and a half and then have your multipliers and you collect that that that is a massive payday right there that's true so at the end of the line but you know for most games it's not much but when you do work your way up to the top of the ladder and you collect that huge chunk could change is sick it's so good it's also just a phenomenal theme and art package one of the most iconic sound packages of any solid state game with the crickets and i will say the spinner sounds on both mystic and frontier are the same which is awesome and we got to say that the kevin o'connor art package on mystic is oh yeah so fucking good phenomenal so fucking good i love the cabinet stencils i think the sounds on both of them they're like on frontier and i can't remember any of the good ones off of mystic off the top of my head but there's so many good sounds in both of them that i just like find myself like when you're playing it you just start making the sounds of the game oh yeah we were doing it back and forth the other day just cracking each other up and we're doing other games we're playing we're making the drain sound before the other person would drain like you're like what the shit yeah it's so dude they're both just so good but frontier it's I mean, both of these games, Mystic and then Frontier, it's like, you know, on Frontier, you have the inline drops, which are your one type of bonus multiplier. Then you have the drops on the right side that are your other bonus multiplier. And, like, it gives you something to shoot from either flipper. That's valuable. There's the three targets in the lower. Then there's the three lanes up top. That's how you fill your den. There's always a decision to make. There's always a shot to make. They're all fucking dangerous. Yeah. And that makes George Christian. And that's what makes it exciting to play. Oh, yeah. You have to be, you know, a little bit creative. You can do certain weird ass backhand shots. Yeah. For those in lanes. You can do certain sneaky shit. You have to discover that on your own. Yeah. The things you can do on the bounce too, like ripping the spinner off the backhand when you make a weird slap save and it magically rolls through there. Holy shit. You have the discovery. Like that went through there faster than normal. Yeah. I love this.
    34:14
    Yeah. Frontier is like, I think it's the best because of like the balance it has to it. how you have the multiple approaches for your objectives. It just works so, so well. It's about as good as it gets. But the next game we're going to talk about is Ty's first love. Just as good. 8-Ball Deluxe. Yeah. Came out in 1981, sold over 10,000 units between the two versions. It is the sequel to 8-Ball and art by Margaret Hudson. Tell us about it, Ty. Oh, it's brilliant. Just look at the three-year run. I mean, just step back. Or three-game run in, like, basically a year in Mystic Frontier 8-Ball Deluxe. it magical well i like how different frontier is from eight ball deluxe and still has similar hallmarks to you know there's in lane drops for bonus multiplier but it's placed differently and there's an orbit shot next to it which isn't the case and uh frontier thrill for me more clear order of operations than frontier frontier you have to take what it gives you and fill your den the way it makes sense to you this one you're like okay cool let's clear all the drops get all the balls and they get a ball and they roll from there or you know if you're scared just go for extra ball through that you're scared go to church dude yeah if you're scared play a game with ramps and modes and ball safe god damn no i'm not scared there's no room to be scared playing these games these these are games for adults if you're scared go to church you knew the job was dangerous when you took that's what you know when i look in other people's eyes and they're playing i'm like you could just go for extra ball through this orbit shot that's your safe shot allegedly this is a premier league shit yeah able to lux widely regarded by many is like the best bally solid state one of the best solid states of all time definitely one of the most well known just by street cred like people that don't play a lot of pinball or don't play pinball anymore they like oh i used to go to this spot and i used to play this game eight ball deluxe they'll know it by name and they'll remember it in a way that they don't remember the other games they played during that era yeah no i had an old creative director uh who worked in a bar that had an eight ball deluxe back in the day when probably when it came out and he's like oh you guys play paintball and he's like stop talking and start chalking he would just say that out of nowhere i'm like you played a lot of that yeah dude yep and well also too like it sold more than both yeah frontier mystic so it's a little more omnipresent well and then next year game sells even more it's mr and mrs pac-man it came out in 1982 capitalized on their own sister company success with the pac-man video game uh because midway is part of bally yeah they sold 10 600 units of this game yeah you want to talk about games for adults this isn't no baby pac-man this is mr and mrs pac-man they're married art again by margaret hudson alex is saying that because famously if you're into pinball you might recognize from the same period they also made a baby pack that's like half video game half pinball half tiny pinball play field the george christian one is Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man. It's actually a full-size pinball game. It's got a grid of lights in the center, but it is a pinball machine. It's not like a hybrid game. It's not Baby Pac. It's alright. It's pretty fun. I've played this one more recently. I used to think this thing was one of his weakest games that I had played. Recently, I'm like, I kind of like Mr. and Mrs. Pac. I would definitely pick one up if given the opportunity, I think. I'd like to play one in good working order, that's for sure.
    37:33
    It's rad, and it's also really got that interesting like the grid is used for a simplistic pac-man kind of video mode or whatever you're playing like snake that's where i get confused with it oh it's confusing as hell the way they did that with two buttons to move forward or whatever it's insane the way that you have to control it but once you figure it out it's very you're like oh now i can actually do what i want and it's like clunky enough that it's still challenging but it's actually kind of fun i i genuinely i'm like it's a game that i always want to play more of that's all i can say but you're like i've not played it enough did this one only come in the two-tiered back cabinet uh version yes it did yep yep it comes in the le cabinet that's right yeah yeah isn't that the hyperball cabinet no not hyperball fuck what was bally's version of hyperball it's rapid fire fire it's the rapid fire cabinet and then yeah there's an evd uh limited edition that came in that as well and centaur too yep same cabinet shape but um yeah dennis nordman designed that cabinet of course he did because he designs every time the cabinet gets fucked with it's dennis nordman behind pulling the levers making things worse i love that guy's games but they need to like get him away from the fucking wood room you're like no more wood and that was the version i had of the able deluxe and it made it harder to work on oh but after a while i kind of like the way the art was separated from the scoreboard i really kind of cool i really to me the the able deluxe le a lot of people prefer the standard cabinet i think it pulls a little bit more money generally speaking like a few hundred like you know 500 bucks whatever but i the le looks very 80s to me and the game feels like a piece of 80s culture so i'm like i i really like the le cabinet personally speakeasy came out in 1982 sold 3 000 units art by greg freris speakeasy huh oh yeah not to beat a dead horse here but uh what is this tied to the mafia i don't know i guess we won't talk about it I guess we won't speak harshly about it. Moving on.
    39:30
    Speakeasy is bizarre because they put it in, like, a single-player-looking cabinet. I think they might have actually done a single-player version of this with only one score display. It's a really bizarre—it's also got those little flappy targets kind of hanging in the middle. The center target has these flap targets that are actually pretty cool, but you don't see them in a lot of games.
    39:49
    You don't like it? They're kind of good. They're neat, but they don't feel good to hit. it's kind of like the mushroom targets that uh oh they're better than mushroom mushroom targets are trash dude the mushroom mushroom bumpers are trash speakeasy is another game i'd like to play more of because i i actually do think it's pretty fun very rare game but yeah or this i mean they sold 3 000 units but i never see it i never never see it there was no one in the state there was one for sale for a long time but it was just like a little higher than it was worth and it sat forever This is funny because it's like you go from the high highs, and then right now we're in 1983. 1982 is the end where Speakeasy comes out. We're going into 1983, and the bottom falls out of the pinball industry. We've talked about it on the show a lot, but they start cost-cutting things because they are not selling units. Video games have flooded the market. Pinball is dying on the vine. Galaga is just out there. First wave of household consoles too, kind of kids out of our kids. And we got Gold Ball comes out in 1983. sells 1,750 units, art by Tony Ramuni, features an actual gold ball in a separate ball trough. And when the gold ball comes out, everything on the play field scores 3X. Whoa. And, I don't know if you can pull this up, Alex, but it's a big departure from his normal style. I've never played this game or seen it in the wild. So this game is very cool, actually. I think it's very cool. This is the one George Christian game I believe I've not played. It's got a very cool art package by Tony Ramuni. so did this come out after you don't like this our package is goofy dude i love the art package so did this come out after silver ball like what's better than silver ball gold gold ball oh my god there's a guy on the uh lower left of the play field oh yeah just giving it to a machine yeah well they had to get that silver ball oh he does it twice yeah yeah they need the silver ball mania a callback to the guy he's got the flipper directly at the end of a sling like the old norm clark thing so maybe you know maybe a lot like eight ball too on the left side it's got the double the yeah the in lanes the out lane the out lane feeds back in kong style for any listeners which is a very common bally or skateboard style skateboard style yeah that was done by other this is a cool layout this is definitely i mean i would love to play this given the opportunity i've just not run into one never seen one yeah i think this cool thing i really like i really like all the shiny people tony ramuni he does these like shiny futuristic people on some of his art packages and i really like them i think it's rad i think the art package is rad reminds me of the era i wish i do think it's pretty cool i bet it's cool when the gold ball comes out if you could ever find one that still has a gold ball uh but like i would put like a glow ball in or something not a glow ball a power ball just so you need something so it's distinct Yeah. Unless you can get a gold-plated ball nowadays. Can you? Yeah. Solid gold, huh? Yeah, solid gold. I'd like that. That would be heavy. It goes slower. Oh, God, it gets all dinged up because gold's a little softer than steel. Yeah, dude. That'd be awesome. Rarely retains value. X's and O's came out in 1983, sold 3,300 units, art by Pat McMahon, and the theme is basically cavemen playing tic-tac-toe. Cool theme, dude. It is kind of a cool theme. it's funny how like the the artwork is pretty goofy pat mcmahon like really well done though yeah pat mcmahon like to do goofy art like like a saturday morning cartoon he did um mousing around later on he did fishtails so he's good at the like saturday morning vibe i didn't realize those are all him x's and o's is a fun game too yeah i've got a lot of fun playing that um you know similar theory to mystic and you're just trying to create you know your grid of x's and o's rather than filling it out um bingo card style so and then black pyramid came out in 1984 sold 2500 units art by greg freres once again former guest on the show again cool art package very cool back glass kind of indiana jones theme not a lot to do on this game just rip orbits mostly um which is fun when you're super stoned you use that switch you're really locked into you have your headphones on jamming out to the ocs and just like fuck this just feels good Like classic Christian orbits and just get to practice those things all day long. I really, really get a kick out of the little target in the middle moving back and forth.
    44:09
    There's just like a little target on a stick that just kind of goes back and forth really slowly. And it just serves very little function and purpose. It's just goofy as hell. 25K when you hit it, you're like, that's not much for what's going on in this game. I want to score millions. It's just interesting. And this is one of the times where the rules let George down, I feel like. I agree. If this thing had different rules, if someone reworked this, because it's that era where you could, I think you could pop a pie in here. I think it's one of the supported ones. And someone could rework this and probably make this game cool, because I think the layout's pretty fun to shoot. It's just you run out of stuff to do. You do run out of stuff to do. And that moving target is a staple. I mean, maybe that is another Norm Clark sneaking in. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. they did do that moving target on kind of quite a few williams games and norm was the lead designer at williams steve cordick used it on some of his games notably heat wave back in the em era it's not like it was an uncommon mech you know it's not the first time it was used it looks goofy as hell is it a hard mech to work on from an operator standpoint i've never had to work on one hmm it's an interesting little thing it always seems to work on every game i've ever played yeah they They just seem to, yeah, they just sit there gyrating, just fucking slowly moving back and forth. They're very funny to me. But after 1984 here, I write, pinball is on life support because the industry's crashing, like we alluded to. And at this time, George leaves Bally amidst massive Bally layoffs and downsizing. I do believe, from everyone I've talked to, that George left on his own accord. He wasn't downsized. And I think he left to follow Norm Clark into a new company that Norm founded called Flippers LTD or maybe Acme Pinball. We've heard differing reports on the name of this company. Like everything, no one can fucking even when you hear the same story from two people, the name of the company fucking changes. So we'll include both of them here, either Flippers LTD or maybe Acme Pinball. So generic, of course, that no one can track of it. Hilarious if that's what it was. That'd be very funny. But the idea was that they would independently, Norm and George, would independently design and sell games to Bally and presumably other manufacturers, too, during this market downturn when all the other companies are downsizing their design departments. And the first game that comes out is 8-Ball Champ, 1985, sells 1,500 units, art by Tony Ramuni again, third game in the 8-Ball trilogy. and I do believe that this is the first game that was designed under those circumstances I didn get any confirmation of like the timeline but that would make sense looking at his output and how regular it was and then it like a full year or more until this comes out uh memory serves right there is midway branding yep and that seems that's what makes them feel distinct to me the midway the valley midway games even though a lot of the mechs are the same they definitely feel different yeah and they were cost cut games there's no doubt about it they were cost cut games that being said 8-Ball Champ for being cost cut, that game's fun as hell. It rips. It is. It's fun. It is. And I feel like the backless is always smoked out. There's no rich colors. It's really weird. It was a strange color palette choice and stuff. It is a fun game, though. And I don't even know if I knew it was a George Christian game the first time I played it, because this was way back when I was new to Solid States. I really like this thing. I will say that the targets around the playfield, this is where I see norm influences. This is where I'm like, oh, okay. This feels like some of his old EM games to me. It feels less George Christian-y than the rest of the games. The footprint is a lot different. And so I wonder, and we never know the answer to this, how deep their relationship was and how much of a collaboration it was and how much each one contributes to each individual game. But some of these games start to feel just a little bit different. And this game feels different to me. With the individual drops in front of individual stand-ups kind of spread around the play field that is very similar to some of the games that norm was making in the 60s and the 70s yeah 100 yeah and they like the no like row of in-lane drops you know upper flipper in a weird spot pops don't feel the same like it's the same thing where it's like it feels different yeah the pops don't really put you in too much danger no i feel like you can rally on that machine a lot longer than you can on other george christian machines that is true For the next game up, we have Beat the Clock, also released in 1985, only sold 500 units, art by Tony Ramuni. It's a timed game. Confusing as hell if you don't, if nobody explains what you're doing here, it's, I just had no, the first few times I played this thing, I was like, what is going on? Because I didn't realize it was timed, and I'm just like sitting there drinking beers, trying to play the game, and I'm like, what is this? What's going on? And then once I had it explained to me, our friend Other Ty. Yeah, we played this in his garage, and I had no clue what to do either. It was, I, once he explained, like, okay, this is how you add time, this is what your objectives are, and it's been so long now that I can't really remember, so I can't explain. But it's a really cool game, and I like the idea of a time-based game. It's very fun. It's, again, it just goes to show that, like, man, even at this time, they tried to change kind of one tenet of the game, which is timed gameplay and how confusing it is to players. And yet here we are in today, which sounds laughable because in the modern era, when we're recording in 2025, good fucking luck understanding what the hell you're supposed to do on any game you walk up to.
    49:41
    Right. But true. At this time, you just change the currency from you have three balls to a you have time. Yeah. And it was confusing to people. But this game is super fun. It has the three pops. This feels more like a George Christian game with the row of drops on the side. Yep, it does have some of his later kind of design features here, like the in-lane and out-lane swapped on the left side. It does have that in-lane, like, where it's not, I guess there's only one drop with a saucer behind it, though. It's a very fun game. It is. I think this is a really fun game and a very rare game. And the final game, Lady Luck, you guys talked about a little bit earlier, was released in 1986. Also sold only 500 units. Art by Greg Freris. this is the last george christian game he goes out on a fucking high note it's interesting that you pointed out eight ball champ kind of feels more like the norm influence there with his targets because i forgot that that's basically lady luck has a very similar layout and it does feel those two games feel very distinct compared to the rest of his so i do wonder if that's like more of the norm norm influence coming through but either way lady luck phenomenal game it has such an awesome like playfield multiplier hurry up kind of situation it's a phenomenal phenomenal game very cool nagle art package nagle inspired art package totally and this is uh like having his crew to grab you lady like it's a game uh based off gambling like you know one of the final pieces of the puzzle in our um conspiracy theory you know like by this time he's a lucky man all the mob bosses have been thrown in jail to the rico act he's a free man he can go do whatever he wants so maybe just maybe you can ditch pinball and just make some pizza in chicago maybe this was his opportunity you know he found luck and he was able to get out of the pinball racket and move on to what he truly loved which was love of his life real pizza not that chicago soup and uh actually i have no idea what he made at his pizza shop but yeah he did go out i really feel like he went out on a high note with this this is such a fun game for me it's a very very addicting one it's a really good george christian example of like this simple to explain like here's how you get this hurry up here's what you do to kind of like juice some shots so the hurry up you can do something with it now you just got to execute and it'll take you 20 games till you can finally execute once and you'll do it poorly and you're like well i have to do that well it's just very very addicting game for me and i love this thing i think the carrots and the sticks are always in the right places in george christian's best work 100 and they're addictive games once you learn what you're supposed to do but we did hear water boy heard about some lost games that's the last game or was it question mark okay so my source who we keep repeating wanted to remain unnamed but he did tell me that there's other completed George Christian games out there that were designed and built as Whitewoods or in some cases like completed games with code during that time of, you know, Flippers Limited or Acme Pinball or whatever the hell it was called. So they're supposedly playable copies of these, I believe mostly in the UK somehow, that a person owns. And my source claimed to have played one about 10 years back or so at a warehouse owned by somebody that had these. He said it was a volcano-themed game with an interactive back glass, like a toy in the back glass, he remembered. I know the odds are incredibly low of anyone listening to this and any of this sounding familiar. But if you have any more information on George Crispin in general, but specifically these lost games, it's a shame to have stuff like this lost to time just because it fell into the hands of somebody that doesn't know how highly it would be valued to other people to see these even. So please let us know if you do have any information. Yeah, reach out. It's just an insane story. Yeah, I would love to see more of these, and we'll do an episode on them if we can find any more pictures. With how good these last few games of his were, it's like, oh, he had more gas in the tank. Him and Norm were still making awesome shit right up to the end. 100%. And he was evolving with the industry. Exactly, yeah. Because it is interesting to see. It's like he kind of moved away from the stop-and-go games a bit. It's kind of interesting to see just in his short time in the industry how things did change. So I would have loved to see more George Christian games. now the end of the story here is that norm clark and george christian what seems universally agreed upon is that there was some sort of feud there's not much like anything else in the way of specifics but george seemed to harbor a lot of resentment against norm for convincing him to leave valley with him to start norm's company multiple people confirmed this this is sort of the going story george was apparently very bitter he was upset that he left behind some sort of retirement or pension or something working at Bally. And I think as a first generation immigrant, it seems like he felt like he got the rug pulled out from under him. I don't personally think that Norm screwed George or was thinking about how his new company wasn't going to work out. But George clearly, from everyone that talked to him during that time and then the years since, George clearly blamed Norm for the end of George's career in the pinball industry. So I think it's just like they started a company. They tried to go out. It didn't work out. That's all we know because we weren't there. We weren't there to see the inside of their relationship. But apparently it was very close for a long time, very close personal collaborators, I would imagine. Yeah. If not friends, at least family. Yes. Seems like a tough breakup. Over the years, a lot of people got to talk to Norm at Pinball Expo. He got to tell his side of it, but nobody really got George's side of it. great so we don't really know what happened we only get kind of bits and pieces of it it's a damn shame and we'll never know fully how was this uh coen brothers type of relationship where they both did equal parts are they both equally responsible at clearly at one point like norm was the reason that george got into the lead position as a designer he plucked him off the line and gave him this opportunity he was clearly in that role as a senior head of the engineering department at bally at the time uh you can definitely see bits and pieces of his games but i think i think it's a little bit unfair some people like to speculate and go well you know norm made all these games and george was just sort of he was just sort of the guy that screwed it all to a play field or whatever yeah and i'm like i think that's a little bit reductive yeah there's away and i don't think that that's the truth we wanted this episode we've been working on it for a long time and we're just hoping we were going to find we kept pulling that ball of yarn and just hoping we were going to find the end and it just led to more and more dead ends and kind of ghostly echoes of i mean it's kind of unreal like we're writing letters and calling numbers that we're finding on the internet and talking to people across the fucking globe to try to piece this together and this was the best we could do yeah we want to know more everyone deserves more we love george christian games deserve more these games are so fucking good that they should have entire books written about the guy that designed them and instead we have one podcast where we're like well this is our best guess yeah we've tried we've worked on this episode for part of this is also i do want to point out there are some threads that we could still pull at but i do you do want to respect the guy's privacy at some level. Yes. Because I'm like, you know, you might be able to find like if you really start hunting him down, you can maybe find where his lives in the Chicago area. Yeah, I tried to. We found an address and I sent him a letter and I feel like this sums up our feelings of the great George Christian. And I want to read it. End of this episode. I wrote, Hello, George. My name is Alan. I own a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon. I'm writing you this letter because I wanted to let you know that you're one of my favorite pinball designers of all time and I love the games that you made my friends and I seek out your game specifically to play we currently have mystic frontier and eight ball deluxe in our collection we're fortunate enough to also have eight ball eight ball champ and lady luck and cloaks proximity to play at different locations around Portland it appears that you left the pinball world in the late 1980s and haven't wanted much to do with it since I don't know the story or think that anyone really does, but I'm sure that you had your reasons, and I don't mean to dredge up bad memories. I don't wish to bother you, but I'm a big fan of your work in the industry, and I have a special interest in pinball machines from the late EM to early Solace era, of which I think you were second to none. I feel as though you are an underappreciated legend of the industry, and frankly find the lack of information and acclaim for your work astounding. A few months ago, I started a podcast. I wrote fancy term for an internet radio show because I knew he was an 80 year old man and I cover various pinball topics and stories for it I've wanted to do an episode about yourself and all the great games that you made in the 1970s and 80s but can find very little information about you I am writing you this letter in hopes that you may wish to contact me back and talk about some of your time designing these great games I would love to be able to document some of your stories and insights for posterity I've included my name, home address, telephone number, and email address as well as a self-addressed stamped envelope should you want to write me a letter back. I would love to celebrate your legacy through my show and would love to find a way to correspond with you in any way, whether that be exchanging letters, emails, or via phone call interview. But I'm also prepared for the possibility that you do not wish to speak with me or anyone at all. In the end, I hope this letter finds you well. I just want to let you know that many people still remember your games and the joy that you have brought them, myself included, sincerely, me. well put yeah yeah and i got that letter back about a month later uh returned to center person doesn't live here any longer so to add more mystique to this whole george christian story again like alex said wanted to get real creepy with it we could go further we felt like it's a struggle to want to protect this guy's privacy which he has clearly everyone that has found him he has been very clear that he's not interested in talking about it so yeah let this man have his privacy i hope all you out there if you interacted with him before and you have real information that you can give us we would love to hear about it because we love george christian i would hope that he knows how beloved he is but he did walk away from the industry under you know not the best circumstances or at least disillusioned but he is one of truly the greatest pinball designers of all time. And we will have, right on the floor, if you're listening to this and you're in the Portland area, we have Future Spa. We will have Mystic. And we have Frontier on the floor for you to come and play at Wedgehead, three of his absolute best games on the floor. And we also have an 8-Ball Deluxe that we'll be bringing in at some point in the near future. The four horse for the fucking apocalypse right there. Yeah. Here to take all your quarters. So we want to end this episode. I want to thank you all for listening to another episode of the Wedget Pinball Podcast. Listen to us tell ghost stories, Ty filling in the gaps with his own imagination. I want to end this like we always do with a plea to go out and play pinball on location, use the pinball map, try to find one of these games near you. If you are not in the Portland area and can't come to Wedget to play them yourself, find them near you, go out and play these George Christian games. And until next time, good luck. Don't suck.
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    What will you do when you get lonely? When nobody's waiting by your side We'll see you next time.