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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast - PAPA's got some news...

The Pinball Network·video·30m 12s·analyzed·Feb 14, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

PAPA World Championships returns as Lyman F. Sheets memorial tournament in Chicago, Sept 5-8 2025.

Summary

Triple Drain Podcast announces the resurrection of PAPA World Championships (PAPA 21) scheduled for September 5-8, 2025 at Antarium in Schaumburg, Illinois. The tournament will serve as a memorial to Lyman F. Sheets, a legendary pinball code designer who died by suicide in January 2022, and will raise funds for suicide prevention organizations (988 Suicide Prevention Hotline and NAMI). The event features innovative tournament structure including a 72-player main division with 3 buys, classics division (herb format), and women's division (card format), designed to create opportunities for non-elite players to advance.

Key Claims

  • PAPA World Championships last occurred in 2017, making PAPA 21 a seven-year revival

    high confidence · Penny Epstein stated this hasn't been around 'since 2017' in the announcement

  • The 2024 Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament raised $15,007 for suicide prevention causes

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell confirmed the exact figure multiple times during discussion

  • Antarium's monthly pinball league has grown to 70-90 players per tournament, possibly the largest consistent local monthly tournament

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell stated he 'could not find another local monthly that had that kind of player turnout on a consistent basis'

  • Lyman Sheets was known for coding 'feeling like you're cheating' mechanics into games like Attack from Mars and implementing extended ball save windows

    high confidence · Host explained Lyman's design philosophy with specific examples of his code tricks

  • PAPA 21 main division will feature 72 players with 3 buys for top-4 seeds, creating an unusually large playoff field

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell detailed the bracket structure and noted uncertainty about tournament precedent for this size

  • Antarium arcade facility now features approximately 31 pinball machines and will add more for the tournament

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell stated 'up to about 31 pinball machines now' and commitment to add more

  • September is National Suicide Awareness Month, with September 10th being National Suicide Prevention Day and September 8-14 being Suicide Prevention Week

    high confidence · Penny Epstein explained timing rationale for tournament dates relative to awareness calendar

  • The first PAPA tournament occurred in 1991, marking 30+ years of tournament history

    high confidence · Penny Epstein stated 'the first Papa was in 1991'

Notable Quotes

  • “This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017. So this would be Papa 21. And it has a new twist to it, which is going to be a memorial for Lyman F. Sheets, those of you who don't know, who unfortunately died by suicide January 19th of 2022.”

    Penny Epstein @ Early in announcement — Core announcement of tournament revival and memorial purpose

  • “Thanks, Lyman, whenever something happened to him in the game. And I'm like, why did you say that? And he's like, oh, because Lyman's known for coding things into games that kind of make you feel like you're cheating the game or stealing something from the game.”

    Host (Joel) @ Mid-episode — Explains Lyman's legendary status in pinball community through his code design philosophy

  • “He just simply made it last longer than it flashes. But it tricks the player's mind into thinking that they stole something. You know, that little miniature victory you got against the machine.”

    Host (Joel) @ Mid-episode — Describes Lyman's specific coding technique and psychological impact on gameplay

  • “I could not find another local monthly that had that kind of player turnout on a consistent basis. So if somebody finds it, they're more than welcome to challenge me.”

    Andy Bagwell @ Mid-episode — Claims potential record for largest consistent local monthly tournament

  • “I think it's a world-class pinball facility capable of hosting world-class tournaments. And that's what I hope to do with this.”

    Andy Bagwell @ Mid-episode — Affirms Antarium's infrastructure and Andy's vision for PAPA 21

  • “I've not heard of a tournament having this large of a playoff field maybe it'll be a disaster but I'm really excited to try the experiment out.”

    Andy Bagwell @ Late episode — Acknowledges innovation/risk of 72-player main division structure

  • “I want to create a situation where maybe you know more local scenes get get fired up and engage to see players that maybe not everybody knows about show up on this world stage”

Entities

PAPA World ChampionshipseventLyman F. SheetspersonPenny EpsteinpersonAndy BagwellpersonAntariumvenueMichael BenjaminpersonJosh Sharpperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Previous Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament (2024) raised $15,007 for suicide prevention; PAPA 21 organizers targeting doubled fundraising goal through expanded event scale

    high · Andy Bagwell confirmed 2024 fundraising total, then discussed 'What? $30,014?' as potential 2025 goal, with goals to expand through multiple fundraising channels

  • ?

    event_signal: PAPA World Championships (PAPA 21) officially announced for September 5-8, 2025 at Antarium in Schaumburg, Illinois as revival after 7-year hiatus

    high · Penny Epstein announced 'Papa previously, and just to let the listeners know' and detailed dates, location, and format with explicit confirmation from organizers

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive reception to Lyman Sheets memorial integration with tournament; community sees meaningful way to honor his legacy through competitive pinball and mental health advocacy

    high · Travis Murray: 'I think it's going to lead to something very special that's going to be here for years to come. And to me, that's really exciting' and Andy acknowledged 'I'm not sure of the exact timeline' but commitment is clear

  • ?

    community_signal: Large-scale volunteer coordination effort required; organizers seeking 100+ volunteers for PAPA 21 based on InDisc precedent; Andy emphasizes volunteer recruitment as critical success factor

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'I need volunteers. I don't know if I said that loud enough' and detailed InDisc had 'over 100 people that they had volunteer' and plans to exceed that

  • ?

    community_signal: Tournament designed with expanded playoff opportunities (72-player main division with 3 buys) and multiple divisions (women's, classics) to engage broader player base beyond elite competitors

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.091

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. All right. Well, welcome. Welcome to a kind of a strange little unique mini episode we got going on here. If you look, if you're watching video, you're going to see some faces you've never seen on here before. We got a full house today. We got five people here. But yeah, we have some exciting news. Travis Murry is expecting his fifth child. His fifth child, everybody. How exciting. Oh, yes. No.
0:43
No. That ship has sailed a long time ago. Four is enough. I love him to death, but four is enough. No. But no, we have two guests on today. We have Andy Bagwell and Penny Epstein. They reached out to us and said they have some very exciting news that they want to announce. So really, I'm just going to step back and I'm going to give you guys the floor. So go for it. Penny, it's all you. All right. So, yeah, we are beyond excited to announce the comeback of the Papa World Championships. This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017. So this would be Papa 21. And it has a new twist to it, which is going to be a memorial for Lyman F. Sheets, those of you who don't know, who unfortunately died by suicide January 19th of 2022. And this is kind of an amazing event for lots of reasons. One, bringing Papa back, which is like the most amazing tournament I think that there was. And it was also a huge event that Lyman really, really loved. And also combining this with honoring his memory is very important, along with bringing the awareness for suicide. And September is Suicide Awareness Month. And we thought this was the perfect time. And this event will be happening September 5th through 8th at Antarium in Illinois. OK.
2:16
Boom. So that's it. So we can click. So that's awesome. So Papa previously, and just to let the listeners know, I asked a lot of questions before we started recording because as the non-tournament person, I was just trying to wrap my head around what this actually means. So just short and sweet, you said the Papa organization, they own the Papa World Championship and they own Pinnberg. Pinnberg was just recently announced as coming back. Papa was also hosted out east, right? Papa was not in Chicago before, so that's a new thing here? Absolutely correct. Okay. And Interium's taking on that, so I'm assuming, Andy, that's falling into your lap. Is that correct? That is falling directly into my lap. Yeah. And how's that? I'm stoked. I mean, I took over with my friend, Littray Litsky. We took over the Interium Pinball Super League Monthly League from Josh Sharp. I don't know if you guys know him or not.

Andy Bagwell @ Late episode — Explains design philosophy behind expanded playoff field for inclusivity

  • “Also NAMI which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness Those are probably the two causes that we be working with”

    Penny Epstein @ Closing segment — Specifies charitable partners for fundraising efforts

  • “I've been keeping this secret for a while and I just, the thing I'm most excited about is to start going as hard as I can on volunteers.”

    Andy Bagwell @ Near end — Emphasizes critical need for volunteer support at large-scale event

  • “I don't really like to get a lot of praise. It's not really my thing. I'll cash all that in now if all those people come out and volunteer score keep we're going to need a lot of help for something of this size”

    Andy Bagwell @ Final segment — Pivots community praise into call for volunteer action

    • Kevin Martin
    person
    Travis Murrayperson
    Bowen Kerinsperson
    Ray Litskyperson
    Triple Drain Pinball Podcastevent/media
    Pinball Super Leagueorganization
    IFPAorganization
    Replay Organizationorganization
    988 Suicide Prevention Hotlineorganization
    NAMIorganization
    Attack from Marsgame
    Monster Bashgame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Pinburghevent
    InDiscevent
    Tomperson
    Joelperson

    high · Andy Bagwell stated 'I am obsessed with finding ways to incentivize both the best players and the look you know the newest players to the to the field' and outlined structure to create 'cinderella story' opportunities

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Card format emphasized as most competitively balanced tournament structure requiring consistency across multiple machines; Andy strongly prefers card format despite mixed player preferences

    high · Andy: 'This format's my favorite format' because 'you have to put up your best games' and 'the consistency factor' prevents 'easy way out' in competition

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Lyman F. Sheets legendary for coding mechanics that create illusion of player agency/cheating (extended jackpot windows, ball save delay tactics) influencing entire pinball design community

    high · Host explained 'He just simply made it last longer than it flashes. But it tricks the player's mind into thinking that they stole something' and noted 'Thanks Lyman' became community phrase for unexpected positive outcomes

  • $

    market_signal: Suicide awareness and mental health destigmatization positioned as core pillar of major pinball championship tournament, integrating charitable mission with competitive play

    high · Penny Epstein: 'to destigmatize the conversations around mental health and suicide awareness through the joy of competitive pinball' with formal partnerships to 988 Suicide Prevention Hotline and NAMI

  • ?

    event_signal: PAPA 21 scheduled September 5-8, 2025 to align with National Suicide Prevention Month (September) and National Suicide Prevention Week (Sept 8-14) for maximum awareness impact

    high · Penny Epstein: 'September is National Suicide Awareness Month. September 10th is National Suicide Prevention Day' and 'they needed a ninth...September 8th or 14th is Suicide Prevention Week'

  • ?

    event_signal: Antarium pinball venue confirmed as world-class facility hosting major championship tournament; venue growth demonstrates community infrastructure development

    high · Andy Bagwell described facility as '31 pinball machines' with 'full service bar restaurant with an actual chef in-house' and monthly tournament growing from 7-10 players to 70-90 players

  • $

    market_signal: PAPA World Championships identified as one of only five major pinball championships globally: EPC (Europe), Pinburgh (East Coast), PAPA 21 (Midwest, newly added), InDisc (West Coast), IFPA World Championships (rotating)

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'pinball majors there's five you've got EPC in Europe you've got Pinnberg which is coming back which is also amazing into the East Coast you've got in disc on the west coast'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Bowen Kerins brought in as 'math wizard' to design playoff bracket structure for 72-player main division, indicating specialized role in complex tournament logistics

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'I use the services of a certain math wizard in pinball, Mr. Bowen, to create the main playoff field for Papa 21'

    • 3:08
    A couple years back, and he approached me after we had the September tournament. Penny asked me if we would be interested in co-oping that for a Lyman Memorial Tournament. And I was over the moon to do something like that. So we hosted it in September last year and had 110 people show up for it. Oh, wow. I think Penny said we raised over $15,000 for us. $15,007. Get that $7 in there. I like a 007, yes.
    3:40
    Penny actually approached me that night and said that she was really happy with how things went. I agreed, and she said, you know, this would be something you'd be interested in doing annually, potentially. And I was like, of course. You know, we have a tournament every month. We always have one in September, obviously. We'd be stoked to do that.
    3:55
    And then about a month later or so, Josh reached out to me and mentioned this and asked if I'd be interested in being a part of it. And I couldn't say yes fast enough. So, yeah, in Tarium, Schaumburg, Illinois. So we'll be having the full pop world championships there. So you're saying last year you had basically this tournament or the idea of this tournament, but you called it the Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament at the time. We just used the monthly. We have a monthly tournament first Tuesday in a local tournament at Antarium, standard match play tournament. And I, my wife Ruth, we both volunteer at the Elgin Pads shelter each month. And she had the idea a couple of years back to start doing a charity tournament every year for pads as well in November. Or Penny kind of came to this and stuff. And I guess because of that, you know, asked me about having one for linemen in the same kind of vein. So I was all too happy to do that. So how did you I feel like we have a merger here of now you're you're merging this this this idea of a memorial tournament for linemen, but also the Papa World Tournament. How did that idea come to be? Or Penny, was this your brainchild of bringing in Papa into this? Well, it was interesting. Andy, Josh Arp and I were talking at the tournament and just saying how exciting this would be if we did it annually. Then Josh and I were talking and he's like, I wonder if Kevin would be interested in being a part of this. We kind of scratched our heads and said, let's set up a call. Who's Kevin? Kevin Martin, who is I guess one of the presidents of the replay organization. He was the one who ran everything previously. Incredible guy. Good friend. Great pinball ambassador. Awesome. No, that's awesome. So that's really cool. It sounds like you got a good memorial slash fundraising effort here and a very well-run tournament that Andy's put on before, but then you're bringing in a big name with the Papa World Tournament name. So hopefully, this will only grow it. Penny, I'm assuming you have more to... Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one thing to like honor Lyman, which means the world to me and I'm sure to everybody who he's touched through his games, code, software, and just being himself, but also to destigmatize the conversations around mental health and suicide awareness through the joy of competitive pinball. And I think we could all see what it was a very difficult decision for me because Lyman was very shy to be candid about what had happened. Because initially I really didn't want to. I wanted to protect him still. Sorry, I might get upset.
    6:39
    So hard to talk about. No, it's it's you're you're you are great. And there's so many people in this hobby that love him and appreciate him and everything that he's done. So it is more than understood. And I know you shared the logo. We will share that picture. You pointed out it's a cool-looking logo. But the thing that I didn't notice is, like, the colors of the logo are specifically for suicide awareness. So hopefully even just visually seeing something like that logo is, well, you know, for people that are aware of those colors that there's an impact there. And that's awesome. Thank you for noticing that. Yeah. So also in the logo, you could see like the once you see it, the colors are sort of meshed because we wanted to like exactly what you're saying. The combination of the cause along with the pinball you know and just making it sort of one cohesive thing And after Lyman passing you know when I did announce what had happened it brought up a huge dialogue on Pinside and Pinside, which we all know how it is sometimes. It kind of took a different turn and people were being kind. People were being honest. People were talking about their personal problems. And I, And I can't tell you how many people approached me and talked to me about some very touching things. And that's what we need. It's not anything to be ashamed of. You know, mental health is a serious thing. And we just want to, you know, bring that awareness and help others. Yeah. So I think you had mentioned before. So there is a fundraising aspect to this. And I know last year you said it was right at $15,000, which is awesome. So I'm assuming the goal here is to Joel, $15,007. Don't forget the seven. Sorry. I have to speak. Travis is exactly what I'm going to say. So, yes. So, um, so the goal is a combination of what we raised on site at pinball super league. We also had a belt, two different bells and chimes events, and we also had a Facebook fundraiser. Awesome. I have a good memory of that from last year. Penny was talking to me about it and she got to like 2000 and she's like, I got to 2,000. Should I increase it to like three? And I was like, double it. And she's like, double it? And I'm like, double it. Why not? And then she's like, should I? And I'm like, yes, 100%. She doubles it. It gets to four. She's like, should I go? I was like, double it again. And she's like, I can't double it again. And I'm like, don't stop. Keep doubling it until we run out of time. It was good encouragement. That's awesome. So the goal then, let's do some quick math here, Travis. The goal next year would be what? $30,014? Are we doubling that? Yeah, that sounds like the 2X multiplier. But why not go higher? Why not go higher? That's awesome. So in regards to the tournament, this is where I really have no concept of what I'm talking about. But the tournament itself, what's unique to this tournament? Why is this? You said Lyman was a huge fan of this tournament. What's so great about the Papa World Tournament as a tournament itself? Papa itself was always the best of the best. that's who showed up that's who played and it was like elite competition and the format was the card format and many people may or may not know that let's say you have a bank of 20 games you pick six of them let's say and you have to put your best scores on all six games to have one complete scorecard that's great and that's how you would get ranked um we are i mean andy will talk about this as well, but we're going to do a little twist to it for our tournament and some other exciting changes. But Papa was just, I mean, there weren't as many tournaments around when Papa first started. And as we were talking about earlier, the first Papa was in 1991. So that was a long time ago. And thinking about what we have now is so different from what we had then. So it was like the tournament that's awesome okay pop a card i know um the pop a card is loved and hated by by many i yeah the idea of uh i don't know i've learned a lot of terminology on this on this podcast between a pump and dome card tournament you almost sound like you know what you're talking about by now it's only taken about four years i know travis hates head to head he doesn't like head to head he i think you just like four people all the time right you just don't do well one-on-one Yeah, it just depends. This format's my favorite format, though. Why is that? Yeah, this by far, to me, it's the most balanced in terms of competitiveness. You have to put up your best games. And then if you make finals, you're going against other people that did the same exact thing. So there's like no easy way out at all. And that's what I love about it. It's a lot of fun. It's the consistency factor, which, you know, you need. And you may have one great game on a card and then you're like, oh, but you know you could do it.
    11:41
    Yeah, I think some people, if they don't, if they're not super familiar with card, they may think it's harder, obviously, but maybe they don't realize just how hard it is. If you think about pinball, you know, play 10 games of pinball or play five games of pinball on five different machines and see if you have a good game on all five of those. Only truly elite players can kind of have that kind of consistency level. herb you just get your one game in and you're done on that game you don't have to play it anymore and it's out of your mind you don't have to worry about it with a card format you have to strategically build your five game selection you have to execute on those five games and as penny said messing up one of those usually uh in disc is a good example with 40 people making playoffs pretty much if you zero out one of your games you're not going to make playoffs it's not happening you have to literally have five tom has a question what's your question no i i know you don't have a question Tom yeah Thomas our lead player we got him in just to you know round out the round out the group here so tell us about that experience Tom do you like hard format do you prefer that or no I I do like it yes but it's it's very tough I mean it is not an easy format as Andy was alluding to but you just have to put it all together yeah um you know going back looking at indus from this last year which is a card format um zach mccarthy who won the tournament literally put in his ticket into the playoffs on the last day with only a couple hours left so that just shows you how hard it is yeah that's awesome and uh chicago chicago is an awesome choice a fantastic choice for a tournament like this obviously it's uh at least here in north america it's incredibly accessible for basically anybody um and even outside of that i mean chicago is a great place to to be able to fly in and out of to travel to but um this is really cool this is really this is really cool this is really exciting um i'm assuming it'll be streamed, which I don't know. We're trying to find somebody. I don't know if we can. There's somebody we heard of. Anybody wants to apply, they can call my cell.
    13:57
    See if we can get Fox City's. Fox City streaming rental is a new thing, right, where you just deliver the equipment, set it all up, and don't do anything? Is that the goal? We pay him in boneless wings at Taranum. They are really good. Awesome. Well, I know both Penny and Andy, you said you had some notes that you took. If it's not obvious, we kind of wing this podcast, so we don't do notes, but you do. So if there's anything else on your notes that you want to hit, I mean, this is the time. Yeah, I mean, I can jump in about Interium and stuff, which is, Joel said, Chicago is extremely accessible. Interium's 20 minutes from O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Illinois. So I am personally really excited to see a major in the Midwest. pinball majors there's five you've got EPC in Europe you've got Pinnberg which is coming back which is also amazing into the East Coast you've got in disc on the west coast you have the IFP world championships which rotate around obviously every year so we had never had one to my knowledge in the Midwest before so I pretty stoked to be able to have you know three of them spread across the US like this obviously I biased but I could not be more excited to be hosting it at Interium If you not familiar with Interium it is a massive location in the Woodfield Mall in Charmberg, Illinois.
    15:16
    It's up to about 31 pinball machines now. We're going to be adding a bunch more for this, obviously.
    15:22
    I host the monthly tournament there with my friend Ray Litzky. First Tuesday every month, we have a monthly tournament that, because of the general manager of Michael Benjamin, bringing in more machines, we've grown from about seven games and 10 to 15 players a month to 30 plus games and somewhere between 70 to 90 players show up every month for my local tournament, which I did some digging on. I could not find another local monthly that had that kind of player turnout on a consistent basis. So if somebody finds it, they're more than welcome to challenge me. But I think it's the largest local monthly that has ever existed in this kind a consistent manner. So Michael is amazing. He's really supportive of the pinball community. Interium has a full service bar restaurant with an actual chef in-house. Actually has really good food. If you guys haven't eaten there, Tom can attest. The food's very good. It's not your standard arcade fare. They have your typical bar snacks and stuff too, if that's what you want. And really nice bartenders. Yes. Amazing bartenders. Don, Berto, Giselle, so many of the staff there are really, really really supportive and friendly as well um they actually have fantastic sushi my wife's very picky about sushi but she swears by their sushi like no joke um she loves it it's legit joel i'm not i would be like oh really arcade mall sushi like i know everybody's always like eye roll that i'm like just try it and they're like that's actually really good sushi and i'm like i know so um but uh yeah uh benji is shorthand for michael benjamin he's actually going to be giving us the entire left side of the restaurant. If you've been there when you come up the stairs where the bowling alley is, all the ballrooms, we're going to have all that stuff reserved for us Thursday through Sunday the entire weekend. So we've kind of got a floor plan set up already for the three main areas. Obviously, we're going to have the main tournament. We're going to have a classics tournament. We're going to have a women's tournament, all with separate sets of machines.
    17:15
    Yeah, I really couldn't be more excited to be able to put something along like this at Antarian because of all the work Benji's done to grow this community. I think it's a, I said it on a Facebook post recently. He's created a world-class pinball facility capable of hosting world-class tournaments. And that's, that's what I hope to do with this. So. And also what you've done with pinball Super League. So I was there when it was like six people playing. So was I. So I actually saw, I actually saw a memory post from Josh like five years ago or something on the Super League group that he mentioned that they only had four people show up and that he was looking for feedback, you know, on how to, what they can kind of do to fix this. So, you know, it's crazy to think back because this actually pinball super league is how i got into competitive pinball um my wife noticed the league sticker on there saying that i could submit score for the selfie league back then you know five years ago or whatever and i was like i'm not good enough for any of that stuff there's no way i could play at a tournament or anything she's like it says you can submit the score right now and i'm like really i could submit the 500 million on adams that i just got like to the league the selfie maybe that's a good score so you know i i submitted that i came And the next day I met Vince Giannini, local player, who took me out to the local ORD club for their tournament. I met everybody in the Chicago pinball community. And I don't know, the rest is history, I guess, as far as my involvement in the competitive pinball scene.
    18:34
    That's awesome. That's awesome. So the takeaway that I'm hearing is if you want a challenging but really fun tournament to play in and you want to eat sushi, this is it. This is the tournament. Joel, the great thing about Interium, I've been there a couple of times now, and it's a fantastic spot. And if you haven't, if you're listening to this and you haven't been there before, I would highly recommend going. Because not just the place itself is awesome, but the fact that it's attached to a mall that has other things that you can do if you bring the family. It has restaurants. It has movie theaters. So there's other things that you can do if you need a break or if you need a reason like I do to bring my wife and apparently my five kids I have now, according to Joel, with me. But yeah, there's just there's so much to do. And plus, I can't say enough good things about the Chicago pinball community. Everybody there is great. Lots of nice people. Fantastic. And just the fact that this is going to be for not just a world championship, but I think even more important for the the what Lyman represented and just the way that everything is going about it and the people that are involved in this. I think it's going to lead to something very special that's going to be here for years to come. And to me, that's really exciting. So I would encourage anybody out there in the pinball community to look at this event and very much consider going to it.
    20:05
    Absolutely. Yeah, on the lineman aspect, one of my great regrets is I didn't really get to know him very well before he passed. And one of the most interesting things I was kind of taught in my pinball knowledge as I grew up, as I kind of got used to this scene. Because I played pinball all the time as a kid in college, but I never was very good for the most part. and I also knew nothing about the history of pinball. Early on when I was playing, I heard a friend of mine say, thanks, Lyman, whenever something happened to him in the game. And I'm like, why did you say that? And he's like, oh, because Lyman's known for coding things into games that kind of make you feel like you're cheating the game or stealing something from the game. Attack from Mars, for example, after your multiball finishes, you still have a good five or six seconds to shoot jackpots that aren't even lit anymore. You can actually light the super jackpot. when you already, your brain, you think that you tricked the game because it doesn't look like you can collect the thing. He was also known for doing the ball saves.
    21:01
    The ball save light turns off, but for a good four or five seconds afterwards you drain the ball, you still get the ball save back, which it's not, it's extremely clever, but it's also very simple. He just simply made it last longer than it flashes. But it tricks the player's mind into thinking that they stole something. You know, that little miniature victory you got against the machine. So I think it's such a brilliant small idea that, that, you know, I've heard so many people say, thanks Lyman, whenever something good happens for them. I hear people say it when it's not even Lyman's game, you know, it's just, it's a common phrase in pinball to say, thanks Lyman, when something happens, you know, that you don't expect to in pinball. That's great. That's awesome. That's really, yeah, that's awesome. I only have one Lyman game and it's, and it's this, and it's not his particular code isn't finished. It's the cactus Canyon behind me. And I can't wait for that. But it is, it is really cool. seeing his initials pop up and more and more games now having, you know, code champion and stuff. So it's, it's yeah. I unfortunately never had the opportunity to meet him, but it's, it's amazing the games and what he's left here for us to play and enjoy and so much joy that he's, he's shared with the entire community. But yeah, Penny, if you, if there's anything else you want to share, or if you can wrap this up for us, go for it. Yeah. The only other thing I'd say, come join us. I think everybody would have a really great time. You're going to play pinball. It's for a good cause. And just to talk about the causes real fast, we're looking at the 988 Suicide Prevention Hotline, which is run by Vibrant Health, which is accessible 24 hours a day. And also NAMI which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness Those are probably the two causes that we be working with So and I think it be great Awesome I excited I will add one thing which I'm most excited about as a tournament director.
    22:47
    I use the services of a certain math wizard in pinball, Mr. Bowen, to create the main playoff field for Papa 21 is going to be, the A division will be 72 players. uh yeah travis so um and if you're listening to my laws got really big so you're so you're yeah yeah there's a chance i'm saying there's a chance tom i as i've grown in the pinball community from a tournament director perspective over the last couple years i have i've developed this burning passion for player incentive um i am obsessed with finding ways to incentivize both the best players and the look you know the newest players to the to the field um you know a lot of my events I have awards for people of IFPA rank or lower.
    23:33
    I like to just have reasons that everybody can kind of be excited about playing pinball even if you're not maybe top four or top ten or something. So yeah, there's going to be a B division as well. 73 through 80 will be in the B division with plaques and payouts for those as well. The main field is going to be 72 people. There's going to be three buys.
    23:53
    If I have my math right, I believe it's one through four will get three buys. 5 through 16 I believe we'll get off the check. I know that there's three buys so I've got my sheet up in front of me but so you know I'm excited to kind of maybe engage a part of the player base maybe that doesn't always get a chance to make playoffs I've not heard of a tournament having this large of a playoff field maybe it'll be a disaster but I'm really excited to try the experiment out. It won't be a disaster. So there'll be 12 groups in the first round so you know main's going to pay out top 40 which is going to be second round and onward so for that first round you're going to see seats 25 through 72 um you know battling and it's going to be group elimination format papa scoring three game uh not banks but it'll be game choice very similar to indus um and you know i i want to see something kind of like march madness get created where you know you have a cinderella story you have a dark horse team that shows up you know you have a georgetown or something that that storms through the field as an 11 seat or a 13 seat or something or in this case a 50 seat or a 60 seat because um there's a lot of amazing pinball players out there um that are not necessarily potentially highly ranked in the ifpa so um i want to create a situation where maybe you know more local scenes get get fired up and engage to see players that maybe not everybody knows about show up on this world stage because from all those groups, two people are going to advance from every group. You know, I think you're not going to see the truly elites until the second or third round kind of come into the mix. So I hope this is a way to kind of create a situation where more people are excited about putting cards in, you know, versus feeling like you don't have a chance maybe to make playoffs. Sure. And you already mentioned, right, that we're going to have main classics and women's just to make sure. So Penny mentioned the wrinkle. So the wrinkle kind of is that classics is going to be unlimited herb. Everything else will be card. women's and main is going to be card um i like herb a little more it's kind of relaxing so i kind of pushed a little bit to have compromise of some card and some herb and i think it will be fun to kind of build it herb format yes i'm not opposed to that either obviously but i was like you know we're in illinois so fyi so so just yeah just to wrap it all up your uh tickets tickets go on sale when or when is this we're still working on getting like the ticket portion set up so There's not going to be any cap on players. I'm not sure of the exact timeline. I think Josh at the IFPA is probably going to be getting something together with this as far as purchasing tickets and stuff. It's going to be pretty similar to InDisc, I feel like, as far as buying goes.
    26:33
    Also, I guess the biggest thing, Penny, too, is I need volunteers. I don't know if I said that loud enough, but I've been keeping this secret for a while. and I just, the thing I'm most excited about is to start going as hard as I can on volunteers.
    26:49
    Someone from Indus was kind enough to share their volunteer list with me. It's over 100 people that they had volunteer for Indus, which is amazing and fantastic. So this does not happen without the community's help. I told Penny a couple days ago, a lot of people thank me for running tournaments and stuff locally. I don't really like to get a lot of praise. It's not really my thing. I'll cash all that in now if all those people come out and volunteer score keep we're going to need a lot of help for something of this size so we'll have 110 people right off the bat we're gonna have 150 people right off the bat so awesome double it yeah double it so so where can uh people contact you andy if they want to volunteer um penny i think you said you were going to set up a an email possibly to reach out to us at um potentially yeah they can also reach out to me directly on facebook messenger you're free to ask Tom how to get a hold of me he'll give you my cell phone I don't care how you get a hold of me the Pinball Super League group on Facebook is a group that was created a long time ago for sharing out tournaments around the Chicago area you're welcome to join that I'll be announcing a bunch of stuff on there on my personal Facebook page putting out the call for volunteers I plan on getting a sign up sheet set up obviously September 5th through 9th we're a ways out still so 7 months to go pretty much roughly until we're going to be doing this thing but I'm going to be pushing hard on getting volunteers. And we'll also be reaching out to people for sponsorship as well. So that's something that we're working on too. We're going to be doing raffles, prizes, things. We're going to make this the best experience possible for all who attend. Awesome. Okay. So everybody, yeah, everybody mark your calendars. It was September, you said 5th through 9th. Is that right? Through 8th. Sorry, my bad. Well, stay an extra day. I'm not going until Monday. Yeah, I'm double checking. That month, actually, our warm-up tournament or our monthly tournament for Interium is the third, that Tuesday. So if you want to come out even earlier, we'll join that. Yeah, and it's great because, like we said, September is National Suicide Awareness Month. September 10th is National Suicide Prevention Day. And, of course, they needed a ninth, you know, September 8th or 14th is Suicide Prevention Week. So we tried to tack on as closely as we could to that date as well. So lots of good things happening. Well, that's awesome. Well, that's really exciting. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for reaching out to us. I'm happy that we could be a part of announcing this. And this is sounding like it could be a ton of fun. And I've no doubt Lyman would thoroughly have enjoyed this. And this is an awesome cause and an awesome, sounds like an awesome tournament. So I know I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure you guys have a huge thank you from the organizers, which is the replay organization, Andy, myself and Josh. and we really appreciate you guys. Perfect. I joked earlier, but just in case it's not super clear, Tom is streaming this at Fox Cities.
    29:44
    Like and subscribe to Tom's stream, please. He is still streaming next year whenever we get to this point.
    29:51
    He'll be here. He loves it. He can't step away from streaming. He's hooked. But, well, it's tradition. We always let Tom close the show. So, Tom, you get the last words. Let's go, Papa.