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Bonus Podcast: Joe Kaminkow & Gary Stern on The Beatles: Beatlemania Pinball

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·53m 47s·analyzed·Nov 6, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Stern reveals Beatles pinball after 10-year licensing effort; 1,964 unit limited run inspired by 1964 Beatlemania.

Summary

Joe Kamenkow and Gary Stern discuss Stern Pinball's upcoming Beatles pinball machine, detailing the decade-long licensing effort, design philosophy inspired by 1964 Beatlemania, and production strategy. The game features a single-level Sea Witch-inspired playfield modernized with current technology, nine Beatles songs, and will be limited to exactly 1,964 units across Diamond (100), Platinum (250), and Gold tiers to maintain collectibility.

Key Claims

  • Joe Kamenkow and Gary Stern worked for over a decade to secure The Beatles licensing deal for Stern Pinball

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'it's one of those things we keep going back and back and back to try and get And actually, we finally put together a presentation'; Gary Stern: 'he and I have worked for a decade, he more than me, but me also'

  • The playfield design is based on the 1970s Sea Witch game, modernized with contemporary technology and rules features

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'George came back and said, let's look at Sea Witch. And we got the four banks. We got the four flippers. It was kind of a real fun game.'

  • Production is strictly limited to exactly 1,964 units (matching the year Beatles came to America) across three tiers: 100 Diamond, 250 Platinum, and remaining Gold

    high confidence · Gary Stern: 'There's only 1,964 of them for the year that Beatles first came to America'; Joe Kamenkow: 'There are 100 diamonds, 250 platinums, and the balance are gold'

  • The game features nine Beatles songs (originally eight, with Tax Man added late in development)

    high confidence · Gary Stern: 'eight, now nine, nine songs. We couldn't stop ourselves. We added a ninth song. Which is it? Tax Man'

  • Chris Franchi created the initial presentation artwork (cabinet and backglass) that secured Apple/Beatles approval

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'Chris Franchi that we were able to sort of share a different vision'; 'Chris came up with the cabinet and the back glass basically and the back glass which at the beginning you will see on the gold package'

  • The licensor (Paul, Ringo, Olivia Harrison, and Yoko Ono) approved gameplay, art, sounds, and display elements, with a playable prototype flown to London for their review

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'we still flew a game to London for everyone there to play and look at and comment on and make suggestions on'

  • The game will ship immediately with most units sold within weeks; production runs 1,000 units initially in blocks of 10 to dealers/distributors

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'I would suspect you know they'll be shipping you know this week next week'; Gary Stern: 'The first 1,000 will be built right away, and they'll be sold in packages to our dealers and distributors, packages of 10'

Notable Quotes

  • “This is going to be made as Beatles. This play field is only going to be used for Beatles. And we're only making 1,964 of them.”

    Joe Kamenkow @ ~12:30 — Clarifies the unprecedented production strategy and scarcity positioning for collector value

  • “I probably have eight personal friends that are like, please put me on the list to get this game. And that's never happened in anything I've made in the 40 years that I've been making pinball.”

    Joe Kamenkow @ ~18:45 — Demonstrates unprecedented consumer demand beyond typical pinball collector demographics; signals Beatles IP transcends traditional market

  • “We could have never made this game 10 years ago. There was just no possible way. Our sound wasn't that good. Our display wasn't that good... our printing technology for the play fields could not have made a game that looks as good as this game.”

    Joe Kamenkow @ ~28:00 — Acknowledges technological maturation required for Beatles game feasibility; implies licensing opportunity timing aligned with Stern's capability advancement

  • “this might be the last pinball I ever make. We'll see. But if it is, damn it's a good one to go out on.”

    Joe Kamenkow @ ~35:30 — Career culmination statement; suggests diminished future involvement in pinball due to other commercial commitments (Willy Wonka, Harry Potter mobile games)

  • “If there was a culmination of a career, getting this title would be it.”

    Gary Stern @ ~38:15 — Affirms Beatles as career capstone achievement for both Stern and Kamenkow; signals exceptional strategic importance

  • “There's only 1,964 of them for the year that Beatles first came to America... We make normally three times that, two to three, four times that many of a game.”

    Gary Stern @ ~43:00 — Quantifies scarcity positioning; Beatles production 33-66% of typical Stern game run, emphasizing collectibility strategy

  • “This game's perfect for all of them. It's very approachable. The casual player in the street... will be able to walk up to this game and know what to do... yet there's plenty of added rules and deep rules for the better player.”

Entities

Joe KamenkowpersonGary SternpersonChris FranchipersonGeorge GomezpersonThe BeatlesentityApple CorpsorganizationStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Beatles licensing required exceptional capital investment described as 'exceptionally, you know, capital-intensive project'; described as 'very large guarantee' and 'very large commitment'; significant financial risk accepted by Stern and Kamenkow

    high · Kamenkow: 'this was an exceptionally, you know, capital-intensive project to create'; 'It was a very large guarantee and, you know, again, a very large commitment for both me and Gary'

  • ?

    community_signal: Game designed with four distinct market segments in mind: commercial operators, enthusiasts/collectors, rec-room buyers, and Beatles collectibles enthusiasts; universal appeal strategy

    high · Gary Stern: 'This game's perfect for all of them...The casual player...will be able to walk up...yet there's plenty of added rules and deep rules for the better player'; 'there's a fourth segment and that's collectibles Beatles collectibles'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Beatles playfield deliberately designed to evoke 1970s-era simplicity and charm with visible wood grain and limited gadgetry, contrasting with modern Stern maximalism; retro-modern hybrid approach

    high · Kamenkow: 'when was the last time you saw a play field that actually had some wood...they used to do 30 years ago'; 'in recent days, it just covered every inch with paint'; 'Chris did a marvelous job kind of allowing this artwork to breathe'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Beatles IP licensing required approval at multiple corporate levels including Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, Olivia Harrison, Yoko Ono, and Apple Corps executives; prototype flown to London for licensor gameplay review

    high · Kamenkow: 'everything that we put together was presented to PROI'; 'we still flew a game to London for everyone there to play and look at and comment on'; secondary approvals for Pan Am logo and instruments

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.161

0:00
Joe Kamenkow discusses the Beatles. Gary Stern discusses the Beatles. Hi, my name is Jonathan Houston, and this time I'm all by myself, not with Martin Eyup of Pimble News, who usually is on the other end of the line. we're doing a special podcast because we got two interviews with people who were very influential in the release of Stern's latest game The Beatles first we have an interview with Joe Kamenkow who is basically the person who arranged the license he made the contacts and made sure that Stern could actually make the game and And the second interview is with Stern CEO Gary Stern, who is currently already in Florida for IAPA, the trade show that will take place next week. And he was willing to share a few words on what led to this game and how he feels about it and some other stuff as well. So without further ado, first, let's go to the interview with Joe Kamenko. Last time that we saw each other was early September in the Stern factory, when you were probably there to work on a game that you've had, I guess, a big involvement in, which is The Beatles.
1:43
Yes, that's correct. If I remember correctly, you were very, very enthusiastic about what you were working on at the time. so now that the game is sort of out in the open what would you like to tell about it?
2:02
Well, you know, it's a very special game Gary and I have been trying on and off to get this title for more than a decade it's one of those things we keep going back and back to try and get And actually, we finally put together a presentation with a tremendous amount of help from Chris Franchi that we were able to sort of share a different vision of the Beatles, more of that first coming to America in 1964, Beatles. that got both Joe, we call him Beetle Joe, or Joe Masurito from Bravado,
2:51

  • The Beatles playfield includes wood grain visible in artwork, representing a deliberate retro design choice contrasting with recent Stern games

    high confidence · Joe Kamenkow: 'when was the last time you saw a play field that actually had some wood? Where, you know, she's going through a play field where you see the grain of the wood in places like they used to do 30 years ago'

    • Gary Stern @ ~41:30 — Articulates four-segment market strategy: operators, enthusiasts, rec-room buyers, and Beatles collectors; claims universal appeal across all segments

    Beatles Pinball
    game
    Kapowproduct_brand
    Sea Witchgame
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Tim Groverperson
    Kevin Murphyperson
    Cousin Bruceperson
    Pan Amcompany
    IAPA/IAPTAevent
    CES Showevent
  • $

    market_signal: Pre-orders indicate most of 1,964 units already spoken for; distributors and collectors pre-purchased heavily; game expected to be completely sold within weeks of announcement

    high · Kamenkow: 'a real good portion of the product is already sold. I mean, you know, there aren't going to be that many unspoken for...at the end of the next week or two'; 'there are a thousand they're spoken for'

  • ?

    community_signal: Chris Franchi's initial art presentation was critical to securing licensor enthusiasm and approval; identified as key factor in moving project from concept to approval

    medium · Kamenkow: 'with a tremendous amount of help from Chris Franchi that we were able to sort of share a different vision...that got both Joe...to get excited about it'; 'Chris gets a lot of credit for helping us get to the point of getting this product into the market'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Joe Kamenkow transitioning from pinball focus; Beatles may be his last pinball design due to commitments to mobile gaming (Willy Wonka, Harry Potter)

    high · Kamenkow: 'this might be the last pinball I ever make...I'm very, very busy with commercial slot machines and with Zynga. And we just launched the new Willy Wonka'; 'we're working on Harry Potter right now'

  • $

    market_signal: Beatles machine positioned as premium collectible with unprecedented scarcity (1,964 units vs. normal 3-4x higher production); sold exclusively in 10-unit blocks to dealers; designed to maintain and appreciate in value

    high · Gary Stern: 'We make normally three times that, two to three, four times that many of a game'; 'these games will have value. There's only 1,964 of them'; Kamenkow: 'should really hold its value, both for an operator or for a player'

  • ?

    announcement: Beatles Pinball officially announced with comprehensive design details, production limits, and immediate shipping timeline

    high · Formal podcast interview with designer and CEO; specific production numbers (1,964 units in three tiers); shipping confirmed for 'this week next week'; distribution packages of 10 units to dealers

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple design iterations and refinements based on licensor feedback; secondary approvals for historical accuracy including Pan Am licensing and instrument licensing

    high · Kamenkow: 'Even after we were there and showed them the game, we went back and had quite a few inclusions of things that they were able to offer to us'; 'we had to go back and get the license for Pan Am...we licensed all the different instruments'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: False rumor circulating that Beatles machine lacks coin door mechanism; officially debunked; machine approved with full commercial coin operation capability

    high · Kamenkow: 'there's a rumor going around that there's a restriction that there is no coin mech in the coin door because no that's not true...We have their approval for the game to have coin doors ok excellent'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Beatles game feasibility dependent on technological maturation in display, sound, and playfield printing capabilities not available 10 years ago; timing was critical factor

    high · Kamenkow: 'We could have never made this game 10 years ago...Our sound wasn't that good. Our display wasn't that good...our printing technology for the play fields could not have made a game that looks as good'

    • to get excited about it. He arranged a meeting with us with the head of licensing for Apple Corp, who was also doing some things at the time in Las Vegas with the Love Show. And we all met in Vegas and looked at the vision that we had come up with. and they were generally excited about it, and they generally thought it was something worth pursuing.
    3:15
    And from the best of my knowledge, everything that we put together was presented to PROI, which stands for Paul, Ringo, Olivia, and Yoko.
    3:27
    And I guess either they or the representatives liked it, and they approved the project. So then it was sort of like, okay, now that you've got it approved, what do you do? because just for my understanding sorry to interrupt you but so Chris French put together an art package does that mean that he came up with like a back glass design or did he already have side art for games or no he came up with the cabinet and the back glass basically and the back glass which at the beginning you will see on the gold package which was sort of like a Beatles 1964 coming to America But one of the things we wanted to do, you know, first of all, we looked very closely at the color palette. And we looked very closely at the kind of game we wanted to make.
    4:17
    And, yeah, we wanted to make it really fun and be kind of more of a Beatles mania moment, not something that was so stiff or so hard, but pretty lighthearted and pretty fun.
    4:30
    Right. So Chris came up with the back last and the cabinet, and that was part of the presentation. And everybody liked the direction we were going. So they got us, you know, enough in a let's do this moment. Then we could go back and, you know, create real art and a real play field and real things. And the play field was a really interesting question. You know, we kind of talked about what should a Beatles game be? You know, do you go back and do something with rooms, with gadgets, or, you know, something, you know, that was really, you know, a high-impact, more modern product. And we kind of all came to the conclusion, especially by George, that we probably could do something better and a little bit more fun and make it a little bit more of a modern retro product. So, you know, we looked and saw that, you know, we all kind of liked the trouble tempo and allegations. It was a single-level game.
    5:30
    A lot of the fans of Stern, you know, it's funny, I listen to all the inside comments and all the comments, but for years we've been getting comments to go back and take a classic Stern product, whether it be a Meteor or a Galaxy or a Sea Witch, and make those games because they were great play fields.
    5:49
    Nobody's seen those games for 40 years. I mean, these things came out in the 70s. Those games are in basements, but certainly not really on location anymore.
    5:59
    And George, originally we looked actually at Galaxy really closely. We almost went with Galaxy. And then George came back and said, let's look at Sea Witch. And we got the four banks. We got the four flippers.
    6:12
    It was kind of a real fun game. And we sat down and we looked and said, well, what were the problems with Sea Witch when it was originally made? Well, you know, that ball always got stuck behind that metal flap on the right side. and, you know, because the balls are the balls that define themselves, the games that keep themselves running. That was a non-starter back then. You know, the game didn't have multi-ball. The game didn't have super jackpot shots. So I want to kind of maintain some of the brilliance of the original rules, but make a more modern version and add deeper features. But we want to make something that people can walk up to, games a little bit higher up on the glass, still modern, make the last loop shot so you can make the right flipper and do a loop on a loop on a loop pretty graciously and easily that's why we throw a magnet on the top so somebody just didn't do you know 100 loops in a row um just to stop the ball and bring it back into the top bumpers and then we have the the spinner hook that's kind of fun now the spinning record and have the magnets of multi-ball it'd be a little bit more fun and get more of that classic fireball you know throw the all around, but actually with the Mac, it kind of catches it and throws it around even more.
    7:23
    And we put together a way, wouldn't you say, you know, a right way to go. You know, something that won't outprice the game, something that's really fun, something that a novice can walk up to because of the brand and really enjoy the game, something that a skilled player can go back and really have a good time with. And the game's pretty loaded. I mean, it's got, you know, multiple drop target banks, multiple flippers, multiple whole car gets lots of hot bumpers i mean it's just kind of fun and um you know it just all started to come together and the rules started to come together um you know i can speak to the songs um and i was about to get into that so yeah a bunch of different modes that were associated with those songs um we really did an amazing job on the display work i probably haven't seen it yet but it's just wow, fantastic. It really shows how great the display could be on a pinball for the first time, I think. Not to say that everything else hasn't been wonderful before, but I think we've kind of amped it up to a new level.
    8:29
    And it's just something that everybody can enjoy, and we're just not making that many of them. I think the other good thing about this product, Gary and I talked about it, and Dave as well, we're not making another version of this game. This is going to be made as Beatles. This play field is only going to be used for Beatles.
    8:47
    And we're only making 1,964 of them. And it should really hold its value, both for an operator or for a player. You know, we want to see these things in family entertainment centers and bowling alleys and movie theaters and Dave and Buster's and places like that. Right. And I think we'll get that. You know, that's the kind of response we're getting. We're going to get that. Right. there's a rumor going around that there's a restriction that there is no coin mech in the coin door because no that's not true ok because apparently the game was not supposed to go on location but I guess that's no you can't stop that yeah ok no no we have their approval for the game to have coin doors ok excellent so So when are we going to... We expect most of them will go into personal collections, we really think.
    9:45
    Well, that's very likely. Well, that also depends on who are you targeting the game to. Are you targeting people collectors or are you targeting Beatles collectors?
    9:58
    Well, I think that's the beauty of this, right? We are getting the Beatles collectors, and they're tremendous Beatles collectors. And if you're a Beatles collector and you ever look at all the Beatles things that are on eBay, this is fresh, new, new art, interactive, uses their music, uses videos. And it's a very interactive product. So, you know, I think the Beatles collector is going to love it. I think the pinball collector is going to love it. A person that's a Beatles collector and a pinball collector, well, you know, they're just in heaven over this product. and then the operator that wants something they can put back out on the street that's not too complex, they can service, just take them off the glass and not take them off ramps to keep it clean, that's really fun and easy to understand,
    10:47
    but deep enough that it's easy to learn, hard to master. For that person, we think the game's going to be great.
    10:55
    And to be honest with you, a real good portion of the product is already sold. I mean, you know, there aren't going to be that many unspoken for, I don't think, at the end of the next week or two. Now, obviously, you know, our distributors, you know, have stepped up and ordered, you know, robustly.
    11:18
    And, you know, some of the collectible places have done the same. So, again, I don't think it's going to be a product that's going to be on the line for very long. I think you can make them and, you know, this Christmas a good portion of them are going to get sold and be gone. Right. Well, obviously, the number of games they can make is limited. So once those are made, that's it. Right.
    11:41
    That's it. 1964. There are 100 diamonds, 250 platinums, and the balance are gold. Right. so um in terms of the uh the the design um process you you talked about how the the sea which playfield got enhanced um was there at any point the idea of like hey on this game a couple of years ago we used the stepper motor to recreate uh electromechanical score Is that something which would have been appropriate?
    12:20
    Yeah, we didn't think it added that much value for what we're trying to do with this project. You know, we even looked at mechanical chimes because we've done that on Tommy. And again, we just didn't think the cost benefit was worth it. I mean, you know, in terms of expense, I mean, I've been involved in a lot of pinball projects over my years with the Star Wars and Jurassic Parks and whatnot. You know, this was an exceptionally, you know, capital-intensive project to create. so you know when people talk about their dream game, having a Beatles game Stern and Capel took an extraordinary risk to bring this to life right so you know don't expect anything like this to happen again in the future this is a shooting star, quite a rarity right, well there's only one Beatles so yeah and it took 50 years to get a license for it plus you know right and um did the um this is this might be an odd question but in terms of gameplay did the licensor have to approve anything for that or was it more like you're the experts on that you figure that out and make sure that it makes sense well they were involved with everything we did.
    13:52
    From making a game that's a fun pinball, they obviously left it to our expertise to deliver on it, but at the end of the day, we still flew a game to London for everyone there to play and look at and comment on and make suggestions on. Even after we were there and showed them the game, we went back and had quite a few inclusions of things that they were able to offer to us or share with us that we didn't have before and they were excited about. and we had some extra video and a few other things that really made the game better. So in terms of, you know, from an art standpoint, they approved everything, all the sounds, all the display, everything we did. And, of course, you know, whether you scored $10,000 on something or $50,000 on something, they didn't quite get involved in that level. They left it to our expertise.
    14:40
    But I can't wait for people to see it and play it. I mean, they're going to – you know, we've had some customers in. And, in fact, the day you were actually in the office, we had a few customers that had come back and actually seen the game.
    14:52
    And, you know, people want to like this game. People are excited about the Beatles. But what's really great is once they do get to actually see the game and play it,
    15:04
    they just love it. I mean, the game is just a hands-down, you know. You just, when you play multi-ball on a hard day's night, you just can't help but smile. It's fun. It sounds like fun. And I saw the smile on your face when we met in the factory when you were actually in the engineering department working on this or discussing it.
    15:31
    Usually a smile on people's face tells that they are firm believers that what they are working on is going to be good. and I have no doubt that you have that feeling about this game and the proof is often in the pudding in the sense that you have to play it because it's easy to go by a couple of photos and think what might happen but like I said you have to play it so then the question what's been so entertaining for me all these people You know, he's a clone and he's never played the game or shot a single ball or heard it. You know, it just kind of makes me kind of laugh a little bit because they're so incredibly uninformed. But I think, you know, I'll let the product do the talking. It's just great. And I can't tell you how many of my personal friends that for the first time in their life have said, I'm buying this pinball and putting it in my house or my office or in my game room or my bar downstairs. I mean, I probably have eight personal friends that are like, please put me on the list to get this game. And that's never happened in anything I've made in the 40 years that I've been making pinball.
    16:50
    So it's pretty exciting. It's pretty fun. If you're a serious pinball collector, you have to have this game. Period. You have to have a Beatles pinball.
    17:00
    You probably do, yeah. So, now this is your second game that you're doing with Stern as Kapow. Mm-hmm.
    17:11
    Can we expect more? Well, you know, probably. But it's got to be the right license and the right opportunity to make sense for us. I mean, the reason I do this is Gary and I, you know, Gary's in his almost mid-70s. I'm about to be 60. You know, we started this company a long time ago. And it kind of gives us a way to stay connected in a way that's not just the daily, you know, how you doing, what you have for dinner, phone call. And we just really enjoy each other so much. I enjoy George and the rest of the team over there. and, you know, look, I've got, you know, a full-time job that is not pinball. And, you know, if I find the right thing that makes sense, that's really special, I mean, the Batman thing was really special because my relationship with Adam West, my goodness, who could have imagined he'd pass away just a mere month after the project was finished. and then this was just an opportunity that we worked on for so long that it finally came to be so will there be something else? Do we have any plans at the moment?
    18:27
    Gary's got a pretty full schedule if something makes sense we'll do something again so I would suspect we will but nothing in the fireplace right now Right so how excited I know you were excited about the game how excited were you to actually land after 10 years this Beatles license if you want to call it that well it was thrilling I mean honestly I never I wasn't sure it would ever happen and you know it started out with well they're kind of interested and they're kind of excited and they're really interested to alright let's see we can put terms together to see if we can make this make sense.
    19:13
    It was a very large guarantee and, you know, again, a very large commitment for both me and Gary to do this project.
    19:23
    And, you know, sometimes you've got to go, there's a cherry on the sundae of one's career. There's a cherry on the sundae of one's business.
    19:34
    And, you know, this is just a feather in our cap. Maybe I'll have to do the Beatles. And the great thing about it, when you look at it, it's fun. It's a lot of things. People used to love that Christiansen artwork with all the hidden stuff in it. There's a lot of hidden stuff in this. It's all Beatlemania. Even when you look at the play field. I mean, when was the last time you saw a play field that actually had some wood?
    19:59
    Where, you know, she's going through a play field where you see the grain of the wood in places like they used to do 30 years ago, right? because, you know, in recent days, it just covered every inch with paint. So, you know, Chris did a marvelous job kind of allowing this artwork to breathe, to give it a retro art package, which is actually one of the colors on the game of the most popular colors for fashion in September of 19.
    20:30
    And it's just, you know, it's just a marvelous, all together, it's just a beautiful package together. and there's a lot of, you know, time to compete and game of skill and all that. It's sort of like, you know, what that pinball should have been if it was made in 1967 or 1972.
    20:48
    But with modern technology and modern display. And, you know, I said to somebody, we could have never made this game 10 years ago. There was just no possible way we could have done that. Our sound wasn't that good. Our display wasn't that good. with dots, and our printing technology for the play fields could not have made a game that looks as good as this game because we didn't have the technology to make the faces look that good. So it's sort of like, you know, the timing was right from a technology standpoint, and everything sort of kind of fell into place the right way.
    21:30
    Okay. The game features eight songs by the Beatles, of course. There's been some confusion whether it's complete songs or whether it's looped fragments. Is there anything you can say about that? Well, the songs are all pretty long. The songs are actually trimmed to work in features, right? So some features are a minute long, some are two minutes long, somewhere, you know, than half long. So just depending, you know, what song and what the feature is, is how the song is trimmed. It wasn't more like, you know, everything's 15 seconds of your Beatles song. You'll hear mostly complete songs through the game.
    22:20
    Right. And that's speculation, you know. Again, it's like anything, you know, you make a note, and if it's 45 seconds long, you play your background sound during that period for 45 seconds. Right.
    22:34
    Now, you mentioned this game is, all models are themed around sort of like what the Beatles were around 1964.
    22:47
    Right. If I understand it correctly. Coming to America, Beatles. I mean, we even had to go back and get the license for Pan Am to use their logo on this game when they landed at Shea Stadium in New York. Things like that. I mean, we had to do a lot of extra work to make this thing feel authentic. Right. Even the speech is done by Cousin Bruce. He introduced the Beatles in 1965 in Shea Stadium. And he does a radio show on XM Radio in America.
    23:19
    Right. So you guys really did your homework and made sure that everything in the game is fitting to the theme.
    23:27
    Yes, even the different musical instruments. We licensed all the different instruments, so it would be historically correct.
    23:35
    Right, okay. Now, where I was getting with trying to get with my question, so this Beatles game is themed around the 1964 period. obviously the Beatles made a lot of music in their career and they went on for quite a while let's say assuming this game is going to be a success and it will all games will be sold and everybody can look back on fantastic achievements accomplished would there be a chance that in a couple of years that you might say like, you know what, why not do a Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart band type of Beatles game, you know? There's a relation with the licensors, if they like what we did before. Could that work, or is that like, well, we'll see at that time?
    24:38
    Well, I mean, I certainly wouldn't preclude anything, but nothing's, you know, in the works. I think right now our focus is let's finish this game, get it in production, get it in the hands of the consumer, see how it does in the marketplace, see how people like it. And if there's hunger, you know, there's obviously, you know, a lot of different eras that people, whether it be, you know, making a white album or doing a rubber sole or, you know, who knows, you know, or Tarzan Peppers or Ellis Edmureen, who knows. there's always that opportunity or possibility, but I think for right now we're going to just keep our focus on what we're putting in the market, and we'll assess that and other things that we've talked about in the near future. Right. But, you know, obviously building relationships with licensors and having good experiences and, you know, having them happy with the result of your hard work, you know, you always keep relationships intact, right? Right. so as you mentioned playing the game is sort of key to understanding it and seeing it and feeling it experiencing it basically so the main question probably is when will people be able to play it in public in production tomorrow so I would suspect you know depending how quickly they get built and go through the initial QA test I would suspect you know they'll be shipping you know this week next week I mean they'll be out there very soon well Stern is very quick usually in the market before Christmas yeah well that's for sure usually when Stern announces a game it could be on the line in a couple of days and shipping, because obviously there's no point in keeping games in the factory. That's pretty much it. Yeah. So you know the game is all ready to go and it rolling down the line Are there any special events planned for this game I mean with other games during those launch parties and so on Is that also the case in this case, or is this... I think we're talking about a couple things, but nothing's been decided. You know, you've got some big trade shows coming up. IAPTA's coming up in a week.
    27:12
    CES show is coming up. We were originally going to launch a product, you know, I think at the CES show. But, you know, we showed it to some of our customers. They really wanted it for Christmas this year.
    27:25
    And we figured we'd move it up a little bit to try and, you know, accommodate some of those holiday sales that our distributors really wanted to be able to, you know, use and deal with. Okay. Well, excellent. I guess this well you've answered all of my questions and more I guess we'll just have to go out and find a game to play to form our valid opinion yeah there's a lot in there for a person that just is going to fail they're going to have a really good time for a person that wants to really go deep and get to some of the more wizardy things there and there as well.
    28:18
    And I'll tell you, playing a game with kills music is just incredibly fantastic. And look at the game and look at it for the art that Chris did. I know a lot of people were really rough. They just saw an early picture of the game, but it's beautiful. It's detailed. there's just a lot of nice memories in there. And his work was spectacular, and Chris gets a lot of credit for helping us get to the point of getting this product into the market. And George Gomez was just a rock star. I mean, he and I just collaborate so nicely together and so easily.
    29:00
    Jerry Thompson did great music. Tim Grover did wonderful programming. you know Craig did a great job running all the art to the art group I mean it was really a collective effort and everybody was just you know never lost their enthusiasm the whole way through this project Great you mentioned Jerry Thompson who did music so there is additional music besides the seven sorry eight Beatles songs in the game like background music when you don't have a song playing? Is that how I should interpret that? I think there's transitional things that occur. But it's primarily, you know, everything you hear is The Beatles' music and seamlessly put together.
    29:47
    Right, okay. Well, Jerry's very good at that and sound effects as well, of course. Jerry went the extra mile to do this game. I mean, Jerry, you know, with Kevin Murphy, and he makes an phenomenal job. of it.
    30:05
    Right. Okay, well, I can't wait to play it. I hope to be able to play it very soon. I would encourage everybody who heard about this game and is interested in seeing whether the hype is real or not to find a game and try it for themselves.
    30:27
    Yeah, it's real. Well, I'm really happy to be associated with this project and this might be the last pinball I ever make. We'll see.
    30:38
    But if it is, damn it's a good one to go out on. Right. It doesn't sound that positive in the sense that if it's the last one you'll ever make, I mean if this is a great success then you don't want it to be the last one that you'll ever make, right? Well, for me it's just a matter of time property. I'm very, very busy with commercial slot machines and with Zynga. And we just launched the new Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory game on your iPhone and Android last Thursday. And it's a very, very big hit. And we're working on Harry Potter right now. So we're really busy. So it's a matter of time for me.
    31:28
    Right. Okay. that makes total sense but let's hope it's not your last pinball machine let's hope not ok well I want to thank you for your time to discuss this game and your involvement in it and thank you for coming on this podcast and good luck with everything thanks and I hope you all have a good time playing it and when you see it on location leave, put an extra five or ten bucks in it with you. It really matters to the operators. We'll see you all soon. So there you have it. Joe Kamenkow, who arranged the license of the Beatles for Stern Pinball, about the game. And without further ado, let's immediately move on to Gary Stern, CEO of Stern Pinball, also discussing the same game, the Beatles. So what are we going to talk about, Jonathan? Well, I heard... We're going to talk about Beatles pinball, right?
    32:28
    If you'd like to say a few words about Beatles pinball, that would be great. I'm very curious what made you choose this theme and how did you get to it?
    32:41
    Well, of course, we know you always praise the latest game, which in this case would not be any different, but this has to be a special game.
    32:51
    Yeah, this is a special game. I mean, you've talked to Joe. You know that he and I have worked for a decade, he more than me, but me also, but a decade together to get this title. It's the ultimate title.
    33:06
    It's the ultimate rock and roll band. It's the ultimate music. And so together we've wanted this. He's the leading oar in getting this title. So if there was a culmination of a career, getting this title would be it. The game itself, of course, is just fun. And it's Beatles, it's rock and roll, it's, you know, eight, now nine, nine songs. We couldn't stop ourselves. We added a ninth song.
    33:45
    Which is it? Tax Man. and so now we've got nine songs on it. Probably that's where we're going to stop. It's got to stop. Any event, this game I talked to you before about we normally have, we always have three market segments. We've got commercial game operators. We've got enthusiasts, pinball enthusiasts and collectors, and we've got what I call rec room buyers, somebody who has a man cave or whatever in a rec room and wants a pinball machine because they played pinball machines when they were young. This game's perfect for all of them. It's very approachable. The casual player in the street, the rec room buyer will be able to walk up to this game and know what to do. Drop targets, a lot of drop targets, physical state changes. You know, if you get the four in the middle down, you spell four, F-O-U-R, or the three on the left, FAB. And you know you want to do that again. It's very understandable, very easy, and yet there's plenty of added rules and deep rules and some mechanical things for the better player. but there's a fourth segment and that's collectibles Beatles collectibles, there's a huge Beatles collectible market and tickets that we've touched I'm sure and we've made other titles that are great titles but this has a collectible base so these games, there's only 1964 for the year that Beatles first came to America and so therefore there's going to be, for the collectors, they're going to find this game.
    35:42
    Our dealers and distributors will look for collectible markets, but to the extent they don't find it, shame on them, the collectors will find it and I'm sure these games will have value. There's only 1,964 of them. Right. We make normally three times that, two to three, four times that many of a game. Right. So this is a title that in a couple of weeks is off the line and gone.
    36:09
    Well, the first 1,000 will be built right away, and they'll be sold in packages to our dealers and distributors, packages of 10. One diamond out of the 100, platinum out of the 250, so we're only using 200 of them right away. Platinum, and then seven of the gold. And again, these games play great for all the uses. That leaves 964 more games, most of them, of course, being gold. And we may make a few more gold this year. We'll make the platinums, the last 50 platinums probably next year, and we'll make the red more gold next year. We can only make so many, so no thousand they're spoken for. So why are you trying to sell the game this way? I don't recall that there have been other games that were sold in blocks like 10 games. No, that's true.
    37:20
    That's true. It means that everybody gets some of everything. We're trying to spread it out. Okay. Yeah. So would this be a model that you would probably continue on future other titles, where you would just have the pro-premium and limited edition model? The pro-premium and limited edition is our cornerstone model. This is a studio game, you know, with Kapow and us.
    37:54
    And so this model is not something that we're typically talking about doing. Now, I'm sitting here saying, no, never. Well, you know, we cast decisions in cream of wheat, not concrete. I put a decision in concrete. It was about 40 years ago, and the next day I had to get a jackhammer out to undo it. But in any event, we had no plans to change our normal business model. Beatles is unique, unique. Right. so that explains also the different pricing on the game I guess because distributors have to buy it in blocks of 10 that changes their whole pricing I guess I don't know Jonathan we don't discuss pricing you know that obviously you're very enthusiastic about this game when can people play it? right you have one in your hotel room right now?
    39:09
    no but I know no I don't but we will have it next week at the IAPA show and that will be the first public showing of the game. Right. So first public appearance of the game will be at the IAPA Florida show, which is next week.
    39:32
    Right. That's on Tuesday. Now, speaking of the IAPA show, last year at the IAPA show, Guardians of the Galaxy debuted over there, and was... Well, the code was still in development, at that point in time.
    39:53
    We're not going to discuss about that, but I'm curious about how far is the code along for Beatles? 1.0 code. Will we do some things or add some things later? Maybe, but this is very good code. Okay, excellent.
    40:12
    Now speaking of code you mentioned this is a Sea Witch which has been updated and upgraded and so on Will we still recognize any of the original rules of Sea Witch for those who remember those or is it just a completely different game?
    40:33
    Oh, you'll recognize some of the rules. Yes, you'll recognize some of them. But, you know, Sea Witch was a great drop target game, good flow. George has made some changes in the geometry only to the better, added some, you know, we've added spinning disc, magnet, more spinning targets, some other shots, so forth. We've added something we didn't have back in the day, and that's multi-ball, so there's a couple different multi-balls in this game.
    41:05
    So, you know, there's added stuff and there's old, there's retro stuff. But, you know, again, both us and the Beatles, we wanted to go back. This is the game that if you had modernized, if you had made a game in 1964 or the 70s for the Beatles, this would have been modernized with a lot more, with an LCD display, with animation, with video clips, with live music, actual Beatles-performed music that you couldn't have put into the game back in that day.
    41:43
    So retro game glomerized into the modern time. Right. What I was also wondering about, Stern did the Ronelli game, and from that came later the Peps Can Crusher game, which was in a more regular cabinet, but a lower cabinet, and with a different back box with still the electromechanical type scoring reels.
    42:16
    I was wondering, wouldn't that have made more sense for this title, such a cabinet? This game's great. I think it's perfect the way it is. I think what George did with it is wonderful. But we do simulate reels, by the way, on the LCD display. Okay.
    42:36
    Again, we modernize with all LEDs, LCDs, the spike system, so forth. Right. Well, nobody outside the factory has seen any images of the LCD or video, so that's still... Oh, you will soon. You will soon. Okay. Excellent. Now, you're currently in Florida for the IAPI show. you still do an amazing amount of shows that you attend to.
    43:07
    What's your role at the company right now? I'm the CEO. That means president, CEO. Although my partner is very involved too, of course, you know. He's very involved. Right. So, we talked earlier this year, and that interview was published in Pinball Magazine No. 5, where we talked about Stern hiring DocScore to fill in at some European shows so you don't have to go there.
    43:41
    And also handling the day-to-day work with the customers. It's more than just shows. Every morning the export salesperson is up on the phone talking to the customers because there's a time difference.
    43:59
    And he's doing that. And he's talking to them and corresponding and keeping track and selling them and getting orders. I talk to them some, but he's talking to them on a regular basis. So he picked up a lot of that, which has freed my time to pick up doing a lot of other things. Right, because I don't get the idea. We're growing business. Right, because I don't get the idea that you're trying to slow down. Although that might have been the intent, but it doesn't seem like that.
    44:26
    Well, yeah, maybe. But I'm still pretty busy, yes. I'm still very busy. Okay. And I like it. Oh, that's a good thing. I like pinball. I like this business. I like what we've built.
    44:51
    The guys have done great jobs. So I'm all happy with all of it. It's all very good. Right. So you haven't reached the point where you figured, like, okay, the company is in good hands.
    45:07
    I'm out of here. Yeah, no, I'm not out of here, but we do plan for succession. And, you know, we're working through, you know, Doug takes over the day-to-day on the export sales There's some other things that we've delegated.
    45:27
    So we are moving it. And we have beefed up the management, so it's got top management in many areas, all the areas where I don't have to.
    45:37
    If this is not Gary makes all the decisions, everything comes to Gary. This is not the same company. You know my phrase, this is not my father's pinball company. Right. We do a lot more things than just make a pinball machine once and never again, and we do a lot of other digital and accessories and merchandise and events and tours and so forth. You know, it's everything pinball. Right. So, in the past, you also tried to, and you still are, pushing people into China. How has that been so far?
    46:24
    Coming along. Coming along. Okay. It's a new market, which is very, very exciting. And, in fact, our Chinese customers will be at IAAPA. And we also have a number of our European customers that are going to be at the IAPA show coming to Chicago after the show for a factory tour and then a barcade tour. I'm taking them on the barcade tour. You've been to the barcade. Within five miles of my apartment in Chicago, there's 10, soon to be 11 barcades.
    47:06
    It's a concept in America that is growing. we have a list of about 650 of them and I know that's not complete well we should definitely get into the barcade scene here in Europe I can't wait for that to start there's a few there in Europe I've been to a number of them in Australia there's some in England there's one in Norway or Sweden that I'm familiar with called Tilt there are some starting and it's a concept that works right now this Beatles game which is a upgraded Sea Witch here you have a play field like you said anybody can walk up to this game and understand what they have to do and it's fun it's easy wouldn't that be like the type of game that you would actually need to enter a new market like the Chinese market because it's not that intimidating?
    48:15
    They're very excited about the game and they're very excited about the title. On the other hand, walk up to Deadpool. George has done a great job with Deadpool where there's plenty there for the great player, but a casual player has got a three bank right in the sweet spot and that gets you a two-ball and a lot of ball when you lock the ball behind. It's easy. It's intuitive. Right. Okay.
    48:43
    George has done a great job. No argument there. I'm just reasoning like, okay, here we have a single-level play field.
    48:56
    I'm sure it'll be a great success in China. Okay. Well, let's hope so. I'm just not sure whether the Chinese have any idea who the Beatles are.
    49:07
    They heard about it and they are all over it. They have a lot of ideas. One of the things that they were all excited about, and of course we had no control of the sales, was when we made the Supreme Games. How do they know what the Supremes are?
    49:26
    Go to China and look at all the people wearing Supreme real and not real stuff. Right. Okay. They know what's going on. Right, okay.
    49:39
    Speaking of China, would you consider making a game with a popular Chinese theme specifically for that market?
    49:49
    It has to be... Maybe. I mean, consider anything. There's economics involved. The problem is the cost to design a, you know, spend a million, million and a half dollars to design a game for a limited market that is just growing is sort of difficult. It's the same problem we have worldwide, and that is to have titles that should have not just U.S. appeal but world appeal.
    50:18
    When we did something like, you know, the first time we did Simpsons a lifetime ago, we were, I believe, the second licensee. It wasn't really known in Europe. It was so successful because it was so important in America. The second time we did Simpsons, it was known in Europe. When we did Family Guy, we did it as Shrek.
    50:42
    And NASCAR, we did it as Grand Prix. There's some titles that we've had to do that with, but that's not particularly desirable. And today, with what you have to do with LCDs and so forth, and music, to retitle a game, skin a game, re-art a game, not really very practical. Right. And yet, here we are with Beatles, which sort of is a reskin of a game. Well, no, no, no. It's worldwide. It's a worldwide title. It's much more than a reskin. Right. Much more than a reskin. Okay, and at this point we drifted off a little bit and ended up discussing the Consumer Electronics Show and other trade shows that Gary is still visiting, just like the IAPA show. So let's hear a few comments from Gary about that. You know, we go to the Consumer Electronics Show. So one of the things, the last thing that has built pinball so much is that we do so much effort to expose pinball. When we go to the Consumer Electronics Show, we're exposing pinball to general news magazines, to podcasts, to game magazines, to just a huge market of people. And so I'll be at the Consumer Electronics Show and then go right from there to the London show.
    52:10
    Is there any chance we're going to see Beatles at the London show? Oh, yeah, of course you'll see it there. Yeah, of course you will. All right. Gary Stern of Stern Pinball on the Beatles and a lot more. Hope you enjoyed these interviews.
    52:27
    I'm heading out of here. if you still are waiting to order a copy of Pinball Magazine number 5 or any of the previous issues I am shipping out a batch of orders tomorrow so if you hurry you might still be able to be in that batch and by tomorrow I mean November 6th in European time also feel free to subscribe to the Pinball Magazine newsletter on www.pinball-magazine.com so you get our monthly free newsletter update with all the latest happenings in the industry of pinball. We'll be back probably at the beginning of next month with such a newsletter and a new podcast together with Martin Ayup who, although I'm doing this podcast by myself, I have to mention that Martin put in quite a few questions for Gary Stern. So I still see this as a collaborative effort between Piml News and Piml Magazine. I hope you enjoyed it, and I hope to see you soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.