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Episode: 73 Deeproot and Chatting with the Live Audience Plus new give away challenge!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Sep 24, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Deep Root postpones reveal after media backlash; hosts debate viability amid manufacturing concerns.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast episode 73 discusses Deep Root Pinball's failed reveal event and subsequent postponement after receiving negative feedback from media attendees. The hosts analyze leaked cabinet design photos, debate Deep Root's viability and management issues, and pivot to discussing Jersey Jack Pinball's upcoming Guns N' Roses machine (October reveal) and the broader market dynamics between licensed and original themes.

Key Claims

  • Deep Root showed only a Raza game and a slideshow of names at the media preview, which generated negative feedback

    high confidence · Ian (host) paraphrasing 'word on the street' from pinball media attendees (Jeff from This Week in Pinball, Chris Chandler, Lauren Gray, Carrie Hardy) who attended Thursday/Friday preview

  • Deep Root has been teasing this reveal for five years

    high confidence · Ian directly: 'they were teasing it for a while and when i mean a while i mean five years'

  • Deep Root postponed the launch after receiving negative feedback from the media preview

    high confidence · Ian: 'with that feedback they just decided to postpone the launch once again' and reference to Deep Root's official statement on their website/Facebook

  • Dennis Nordman left Deep Root after designing multiple games that were never manufactured

    medium confidence · Drew: 'he leaves right... he designs supposedly several games and then nothing gets manufactured and now he's gone'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball will reveal their next game (Guns N' Roses) in October

    high confidence · Ian: 'this week in pinball is reporting that it will be an October release' regarding JJP's next game

  • Licensed themes sell significantly better than original themes in the current market

    high confidence · Ian: 'original themes don't sell as well as actual licensed themes' and 'it's really hard to compete with those' in today's world

  • TNA (Total Nuclear Annihilation) is cited as an exception to the rule of original themes underperforming

    medium confidence · Jeremy Schmidt in chat: 'yes, TNA' in response to discussion of original themes that sold well

  • George Gomez was approached about Big Trouble in Little China for a game but rejected the theme

    medium confidence · Ian: 'I think it was this year... George Gomez interview... he talked about how they actually approached him with the Big Trouble in Little China theme? And he was like, nobody wants that.'

Notable Quotes

  • “they were teasing it for a while and when i mean a while i mean five years”

    Ian @ ~10:00 — Sets context for Deep Root's five-year development period without a product launch

  • “word on the street was kind of uh your wallet is safe they're not quite ready there's nothing on the line there's nothing really there to wow them”

    Ian @ ~11:30 — Summarizes media feedback from the Deep Root preview event

  • “it doesn't matter if you have all the talent in the world in the design room. If you don't have anyone that can make fucking games, what's the point, right?”

    Ian (quoting anonymous Deep Root designer) @ ~18:00 — Highlights core issue: design talent alone is insufficient without manufacturing capability

  • “I would almost prefer that to be just one piece i got no problem with that um just having the screen part of the back box and no separation in between”

    Drew @ ~22:00 — Critique of Deep Root's cabinet design decision to separate screen from artwork

  • “i'm just gonna root for them like i have been um i want them to get it right but again it comes down to manufacturing and until they can start making these games you gotta just take it with a grain of salt”

    Ian @ ~35:00 — Encapsulates the hosts' position: hopeful but skeptical until manufacturing proves viability

  • “It's not even that it won't be a good game. It could be the best game ever. It's not going to sell as well. Look at Black Knight. Black Knight is a fun game, but even with that, it's still lacking in theme.”

    Ian @ ~43:00 — Commentary on market reality that game quality alone cannot overcome weak IP licensing

  • “even if it's a great game, without seeing it, I still think that I would probably choose Avengers over that if those were my two options”

    Drew (regarding Guns N' Roses) @ ~52:00 — Demonstrates hype management and realistic expectations for upcoming JJP title

Entities

Deep Root PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyIanpersonDrewpersonRobert MuellerpersonDennis NordmanpersonJeffpersonChris Chandlerperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Deep Root Pinball postponed their game reveal/launch after receiving negative feedback from media preview

    high · Ian: 'with that feedback they just decided to postpone the launch once again' and Deep Root published official statement on website/Facebook

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment toward Deep Root has shifted significantly negative following the failed reveal; chat mentions boycott calls and criticism

    high · Ian: 'there was a lot of hate a lot of hate a lot of hate' and mentions of Mike Williams saying 'put a nail in their coffin'; calls for boycotts in community

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Deep Root's core problem appears to be lack of manufacturing capability, not design talent; designer quoted saying talented design team is meaningless without ability to manufacture

    high · Ian quotes anonymous Deep Root designer: 'if you don't have anyone that can make fucking games, what's the point'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dennis Nordman, significant designer at Deep Root, has departed after designing multiple games that were never manufactured

    medium · Drew: 'he designs supposedly several games and then nothing gets manufactured and now he's gone'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Deep Root cabinet design leaked via unofficial channels; hosts believe it was a genuine leak, not intentional marketing

    high · Ian and Drew discussion about leaked cabinet photos; Drew concludes 'it's a real leak i don't see why deep root would want to leak their own shit'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.272

0:00
one two three go and there's a shit ton of background noise you had one job today's episode is brought to you by flipping out pinball get your new shinies over there at flipping out pinball uh zach and nicole many do a fantastic job getting the best fucking things out to you today so call zach and nicole many at flipping out pinball also brought to you by pin shades go to pin side marketplace and uh you can find pin shades there for sale pin shades are the ultra stylish ultra cool uh way to their sunglasses that help you know um reduce glare and track your balls on pinball machines also twip yeah he paid us more than three dollars so i'm gonna say a few more than just three words twip is fucking cool yeah twip has all the news stories we rip them off weekly thank you jeff for all of our content and uh everybody check out this week in pinball he's got uh well once deep root actually reveals something he's gonna have a total story for you and he's gonna have a deep dive in deep root if that makes sense so stay tuned to this week in pinball also pin stadium lights scott over there pin stadium lights just killing it pin side uh sorry uh pin stadium lights have the new neo fusions is that what they're called true anyway yep so the newest state-of-the-art leds that light up everybody and i'm feeling a little lit right now also pinballprices.com why because everyone needs to know how much these machines are he has everything updated as far as how many machines were sold the last three years what they were going for what they sold at and what your machine is currently valued at so there you go guys enjoy the show got an upset tummy otherwise known as a burning itching butthole well whenever i get done drinking a bottle of hot sauce or licking the side of a butter cab in the basement of some seedy milwaukee bar i always turn to the one and only cure that i know is going to help me get through such troubled times the poor man's pinball podcast All right, welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, episode number 73, the only podcast that likes to deep root. Hi, guys. How's everyone out there doing? How's everyone doing out there? There we go. I'm using my words. Drew, how you doing, brother? I'm good, man.
2:55
We're live from your basement. We're live from my office. We're live in two places. I love it. That's your office. All right.

  • Photos of Deep Root's cabinet design were leaked, not intentionally released by the company

    medium confidence · Ian and Drew discussion: Ian questions if it was a leak or intentional release; Drew concludes: 'it's a real leak i don't see why deep root would want to leak their own shit'

  • Multimorphic P3s can be ordered with Heist right now

    high confidence · Chat user Steven Silver: 'in unrelated news, you can order P3s with Heist right now' (corroborated by Ian's response)

    • “I'm a poor man at heart, man. I don't care what the theme is. If you put shit in a game, I'm getting it.”

    Ian @ ~53:00 — Reflects the show's philosophy: mechanics and content matter more than licensing

  • “They put more shit in their game. Okay, that's fair. I'm a poor man at heart, man.”

    Ian @ ~54:00 — Shows preference for content-rich games over pure theme appeal

  • “no games in this poor man's house”

    Chat user (Tim Lee context) @ ~48:00 — References the location player vs. home collector divide in the community

    • Lauren Grayperson
    Carrie Hardyperson
    George Gomezperson
    Slashperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Kanedaperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Multimorphiccompany
    This Week in Pinballorganization
  • ?

    design_innovation: Deep Root's cabinet features an ultra-widescreen LCD display integrated into lockdown bar area, similar to JJP Pirates alien screen and Highway Extreme designs

    medium · Ian discussing display integration and potential touchscreen capability as innovation; comparison to JJP and Highway Extreme precedents

  • $

    market_signal: Licensed themes dramatically outperform original themes in sales despite comparable game quality; community consensus that licensing is essential for commercial success

    high · Ian: 'original themes don't sell as well as actual licensed themes' and extensive discussion of TNA as exception proving the rule

  • ?

    product_launch: Jersey Jack Pinball's Guns N' Roses machine will be officially revealed in October (next month from episode date)

    high · Ian: 'this week in pinball is reporting that it will be an October release' and Slash confirmation of GNR game

  • ?

    community_signal: Manufacturer credibility and presentation style significantly impact community expectations; how a company positions itself affects reception of delays and setbacks

    medium · Comparison between Deep Root (overpromising), Haggis Pinball, and Suncoast Pinball; Ian: 'it goes into how you present yourself'

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root's long-term financial viability is questioned; Robert Mueller has been funding five years of development with no product shipments, raising concerns about sustainable business model

    medium · Ian: 'as long as Robert Mueller has the money and he can keep this thing afloat, I don't know how much longer he's going to keep it afloat'

  • ?

    content_signal: This Week in Pinball (Jeff) expected to provide detailed coverage and deep dive on Deep Root once official announcements materialize

    medium · Ian: 'once deep root actually reveals something he's gonna have a total story for you and he's gonna have a deep dive in deep root'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Discussion of how Stern's Avengers Premium will likely remain available through 2025; premium limited editions may have longer availability windows than marketed

    medium · Tim Lee in chat: 'you'll be able to buy Avengers Premium until like 2025, I promise you. It will be around for many, many years'

    • 3:05
    So for those of you that can tell, if you guys are watching this, we are doing this via Skype. Hopefully this is coming across pretty clear for you guys. But, yeah, Drew, you're not here, buddy. We miss you. What happened?
    3:20
    Well, my wife got the COVID and my son also got the COVID. and I'm waiting on a test that I may have the COVID.
    3:31
    So everyone in my house is healthy. Symptoms are gone. No one has symptoms, but we're just playing it safe because I don't want to give Ian the COVID. I don't want the COVID. He's giving me everything else. I don't want to give it to Ian. I don't want to give it to his wife and his lovely daughter. Ah, there you go. You cocksucker. There you go. But as you can see, I'm in my fancy high-rise apartment here in New York City right next to Kaneda. My Rick and Morty's in the background somewhere. You can see it. You guys are neighbors, huh? That's kind of cool. Yeah, I look out my window, I wave to him and Bubba every day. Say, hey, Brendan and Bubba, how are you doing? Do you know me? Because I know you. Yeah, pretty much. I'm that weird guy in the window with no pants. Oh, man. So guys out there on Facebook land, how are we coming in? Does this sound okay?
    4:21
    Please let us know in chat. all right well drew brother what you drinking over there i see you got a drink uh well i can show you guys i'm drinking some oh disappearing there kessler's there it is take a little bit drinking some kessler and uh some some bubbly water so tasting good tasting good i'm drinking some vodka um some organic vodka called field notes and uh some red bull because it's been a shit of a day it's been a shitter real shitter from morning till dusk it's been just an awful day so these bags are created by deep root i was up all day just worrying about them like what am i gonna do what am i gonna talk about you know last week i was all about Jersey Jack in their reveal last Friday, which didn't go well. And then Deep Roots revealed today, which didn't go well. So we're 0 for 2.
    5:26
    Well, last week or the week before that went pretty well. So there's that. It's Avengers. Yep. Somebody had something that went pretty well.
    5:41
    Yeah. So there's not a ton. Well, there's a lot to talk about when there's not a lot to talk about, right? There's a lot to talk about nothing that happened, which will do a lot of that.
    5:56
    Did Ian get the Rona again, Joshua? No, I'm fine. It's that other guy. It's that other guy, Drew. Well, Drew's wife. Yeah. Yep, yep. I'm still, like I said, tomorrow I should get my test results. I'll let you guys know if I have the Rona or not. Okay, okay. everyone's going to be waiting I'm sure so let's just throw it right out to chat right away how'd you guys think about the because we don't really have a show planned today we're going to wing it so how'd you guys think of it what'd you guys think about that deep root reveal what'd you guys think of the leaked photos yeah I hope everyone saw those photos if not Robert's lawyers are not going to email them to me so hopefully everybody saw them um so put them out in chat see i want to see uh some of your opinions a lot of i've read a lot today um a lot of comments a lot of craziness um a lot of a lot of hate a lot of hate a lot of hate yeah i heard i've seen a lot of hate well i just i just want to ask you in about those leaked photos do you think do you think deep root did that or do you think it was a real leak first of all it's a real leak i don't see why deep root would want to leak their own shit well especially if it's not ready i mean well they're starting to build the hype i mean they're gonna have to be ready at some point right no you just think no no that's just that doesn't make any sense i don't know why they would ever leak it now when they had this big epic kind of thing kind of blow up in their face does that make sense like yeah yeah big a big plan to to reveal it and go from there and then not only did they have an epic fail they also didn't have you know now they have leaks and stuff so you know it's it's the whole thing is just kind of a shit show so let's let's back up a bit dude and let's talk about what actually transpired so today was going to be the day of the deep root reveal so um they were teasing it for a while and when i mean a while i mean five years so what they ended up doing was today was going to be the day where they do their reveal and last was it thursday friday they had some guests from the pinball media drew and i could not attend and um you know i know jeff from this weekend pinball was was there chris chandler was there lauren gray was there uh carrie hardy was there so there was quite a few people there that we knew um and you know word on the street is now i haven't talked to any of them specifically but word on the street was kind of uh your wallet is safe they're not quite ready there's nothing on the line there's nothing really there to wow them there was basically a raza game and then there was a slideshow that had a bunch of names so with that feedback um i don't know if this is true or not but with that feedback they just decided to postpone the launch once again so and then they sent out a statement i'm not going to get into the statement you guys can all go to deep roots website or you can go to their facebook page they wrote basically kind of what i just summarized uh you know the feedback wasn't great and they wanted to make sure it was great so they're going to postpone it until they're 100 ready which bores me to tears just saying that bored me to tears like we gotta like liven this shit up this has got to get exciting here so what are we going to do today, Drew?
    9:55
    Well, I just, you know, I have some questions. I mean, do we think that any of this created any more excitement for Deep Root? Or is the excitement so low now because it's been five years that even if they bring out a great game...
    10:16
    Oh, sorry. You know, as I'm saying this, Tim Lee's writing. It's kind of my point. If they put out a great product, we'll all buy. We are short memories, but not sure the league game would have people opening their wallets, although I'd give it a try.
    10:28
    Yeah, I think that's kind of a fair synopsis for the whole thing, right? Right. I mean, if they come out swinging, and see, Mike Williams says this put a nail in their coffin, so they're just conflicting. I don't agree with that, Mike, because I'm kind of with Tim Lee here, as much as I hate to agree with that man. if they come out with a great great product people will buy it well i mean but you're right there was a lot of mixed stuff out there on the interweb and there was a lot of people that were calling for like a boycott essentially of deep root which is so ridiculous yeah it's not like they're taking a year they don't have anybody's money they don't have anyone's money so people are getting really upset now that's not what mike williams is saying i get what mike williams is saying mike williams is saying this is probably done um which i'm not i don't disagree um you know there's you know the the best comment i read today was this uh somebody said they were drinking with a designer at deep root one of these shows take that for a grain of salt i take this whole thing for a grain of salt but the point was uh this designer the so-called deep root designer He said, it doesn't matter if you have all the talent in the world in the design room. If you don't have anyone that can make fucking games, what's the point, right? Well, sure. You look at, once again, this is not Dutch pinball, but I'm just going to use them as an example. That game, everyone loved it, right? The Big Lebowski is a cool game. It looks good. It shoots good. People have fun with it. It's a great theme. but at the end of the day they really struggle to get it out for a lot of different reasons and once again Deep Root is not that but even if they have a great game and they can't manufacture enough or they just you know they have struggles like that then it might be an issue right right no and I agree and even reading some of the chat here today yeah you're right it's kind of mixed People are saying, you know, Ari Jones said, what did he say? Hang on. Sorry, I'm having some technical difficulties. Ari's been on fire all day today. I was reading all your shit today. It was hilarious. Jasper Rotter, same thing. You were on fire today. You guys were putting out some heat today. It was good. It was entertaining as fuck. Well, Jasper just said Oktoberfest was a great game and not many bought it, which is a true statement. Rachel's got a good point here Rachel how are you um Rachel says um uh people that love to play and are bored playing the latest thing they will buy it oh that's a good point that is a good point Rachel yeah so I mean yeah I guess sure I think they only sold 600 what are we talking about I don't know um but yeah there's a lot going on um oh steve bowden fun with bonus ended daily content content today to transition into something new wow that's news that is news all right so anyway we're back to deep root so deep root it's it's that's a lot of tough that's a lot of tough feelings there i mean i know we were all probably really looking forward to the newest guy on the block kind of showing us you know what he's been working on for the last five years there were leaked images of the cabinet design drew do you have any opinions on those cat on that cabinet design because i've heard a lot of feelings on that some people think it looks pretty cool some people think it looks absolutely ridiculous i had a chance to view it and And it's kind of all over the place. Really? Yeah, I think there's some cool stuff in there. You know, I've been very vocal about having something different. You know, I've talked about that, having a different sort of cabinet, having a different design.
    14:43
    There's too much going on with this thing. I don't know. uh who you know i think some of the changes that appear to be there aren't revolutionary i think they're more they were going for some aesthetic changes that i don't know if i'm a fan of yet does that make sense i get it um yeah i'm really struggling with it because i i don't think it's it's different but it's not different enough right how's that right it's because they it's interesting no it's interesting first off tony thank you for the stars tony sent us 100 stars appreciate it tony it does make a bad day better um yeah i mean i'm looking at the at the pictures here and i will say this about it um first thing i noticed there was no start button which is a weird first thing to notice i know um so i'm assuming the screen where the lock bar is it looks a little big and bulky to me if you look at your lockdown bars kids i mean lockdown bars are pretty damn small there isn't much of an apron to speak of so instead of doing an apron there looks like they're just doing maybe a touch screen there that's the only thing i can think of that makes sense there um then uh i thought the cabinet art looked really really good i love i gotta tell you i am fucking in love with this back box the actual place where the artwork is um not necessarily where the screen is and i don't like the separation of the two but i love a full back box with full art that stretches from one end to the other it all looks illuminated and it wraps around the sides like that i just think that's so fucking sharp i mean that really does look good it pops really well but again i don't know why you would separate that i know they're trying to do some kind of modern aesthetic thing here by separating it from the um the screen i would almost prefer that to be just one piece i got no problem with that um just having the screen part of the back box and no separation in between um but yeah i really dig that back box i really do um you do okay yeah the actual where the artwork is absolutely that looks oh you're talking about the artwork itself yeah yeah well the no how it's all positioned the artwork okay that whole lit beautiful back box see i would be i'm more of a fan of awesome art on the back box than having a big old lcd on there sorry jersey jack but um i like the artwork on the back box and then i would i i actually kind of like this setup with the smaller lcd screen that's kind of an interesting aspect ratio it's you know ultra wide screen and kind of short and stout like me well we've we've talked about that with the um you know like the cgc special edition ones yeah those are beautiful where yeah exactly the the dots on there it's just kind of a neat look because it's like it reminds you of the dmd but it's like fresh and new still yeah so yeah no but i i think no uh carl lutz do you guys think that robert should throw in the towel no i want him to get some games out man i want us to play games so let's get some games out um so yeah um but yeah no i i dig that so are you saying you don't like that box the back box where the art is um no like i said it's it's fine i i don't how about this like i i don't have any issue with it i i just i expected something bigger and better hey thanks pete quint shit You guys started on time?
    18:45
    We did it, Pete. I didn't have to drive to Ian's house. We're making it happen. Yeah, we had to figure the Skype thing out, so we've been at it for about 47 minutes now trying to get the Skype to work on our shit. But it works, surprisingly. I don't know how great of a show this is, but it fucking works. We're happy about it.
    19:06
    We're fucking happy about it. So, yeah, no, it's fine. I mean, I'm not like, oh, this is terrible or anything. It's just all the hype just made me expect something different.
    19:18
    You know, we've been hearing about this for five years. We've been hearing about how they're going to compete with Stern. We've been hearing about all these innovations. And there's obviously some more stuff under the hood that we haven't seen. But the back box itself and stuff, it's fine. The ultra widescreen is actually pretty cool. I do dig that aspect ratio as well. and I think they can do some neat things with it, but it hasn't blown me away yet. And it's just a picture. Do you like the lockdown bar? Go ahead.
    19:50
    It depends what it does. Ooh. Right? Well, it can do anything. It's just a display, right? Yeah. Here's the thing. So as far as innovation goes, having that, you know, kind of like the Jersey Jack Pirates thing, the alien screen from Highway, right? All these different cool things that you can do that you can actually see as the player and are right in front of you. Yeah. I do dig that. So that is some real innovation. And if you can even make that a touchscreen, which, you know, they could potentially be doing that, that would be even better. Tony said it better than I did. He liked the full edge-to-edge artwork on the back box. No bezel. That's what I'm talking about, Tony. Yes. that's exactly what i like i like that that's a true statement tim lee doesn't matter what the game has in it drew will still suck at it oh shots fired well you know if anyone ever plays these or buys these or if this is ever available you know you guys are both gonna have to buy one and uh test your deep root skills out jasper rotter on fire again why aren't we talking about Jasper Pinball LLC? They also don't make pinball games. Yep. Jasper has been on a whole other level today, dude. It's been hilarious listening to him. So, reading his stuff. Kaneda's been on fire too today. He's calling it a big disappointment for pinball. It's a disappointment to be sure.
    21:22
    I don't know if it really affects the pinball climate that much because they weren't making games and now they're still not making games. So, what are you going to do, right? What the fuck are you going to do?
    21:34
    Isn't it funny that when, say, Suncoast Pinball, right, before they manufactured those few games, they came out, they showed a game, they weren't ready to ship, and people are like, oh, this is cool, right? But Deep Root, because they've talked so much about it, now people are like, well, where's the games, right? Why can't you produce? Right. There's so many different standards, it seems. Who's the other one? Haggis Pinball in Australia, right? Haggis. Yeah, Haggis Pinball. He's got this cool machine. We see it. We get to play it. We played some prototypes. He hasn't been shipping games, COVID, all this other stuff, and everyone's still rooting for him. So where do we draw the line? What's the difference? I think it goes into how you present yourself. Yeah, that's kind of my point. They came out saying they were going to be the best. Yeah if we started this pinball podcast as the Rich Man Pinball Podcast or the limited edition pinball podcast people with this shtick that we do people will be like these fucking guys are clowns But you call it the Poor Man Pinball Podcast everyone goes oh yeah that makes sense That makes sense.
    22:51
    Tim Lee, I'm the dummy who didn't go in on Avengers Premium and decided to wait for the other manufacturers to reveal. you'll be able to buy Avengers Premium until like 2025, I promise you. It will be around for many, many years. Glenn Wachter, Punny Factory should be getting more attention on this show. It's like a dad joke pinball machine. Yeah, you know, what's funny about that is anytime Kaneda criticizes him, and he barely mentions them, by the way, but anytime he did, he got threatened with a lawsuit, and I just don't think they're worth any airtime. Until they – no, no, they're not worth any airtime. I was just going to say, I was thinking about it. I was like, there's nothing there that interests me in the least. I don't really care for anything that that guy does. So, Steven Silver, in unrelated news, you can order P3s with Heist right now. Steven Silver books up a great point. Steven, I did get your message. I will respond to you. It's just been a shit day today, brother. But, yeah, P3's – Multimorphic is, and I'll say this again, it has me more and more excited. Like, I don't know. I can't wait for a few more games to come out. But Heist, I still cannot wait to play Heist, Drew.
    24:09
    Oh, yeah. No, Heist is on my top ten list of games I want to play because it just looks so cool. and unfortunately for P3, there's just not enough of those out there. We need to get more of them out there so people can experience them. It was a shame with the shows this year because this could have been a really big year for them potentially with that at the shows.
    24:37
    Hey, Steven, send us a P3. We will review it for you on our podcast. That's a real thing. Or if you have a buddy that's somewhere near Milwaukee, we'll play his P3 and we'll just show up with a six-pack. That's how we do it in Milwaukee. It'll be fine. Trust us.
    24:56
    But, yeah, no, you know, back to the Deep Root thing, I mean, I don't know, dude. I mean, as long as Robert Mueller has the money and he can keep this thing afloat, I don't know how much longer he's going to keep it afloat. it's got to be a little concerning though pumping in all that money and having a bunch of guys not produce anything in five years does that not just do they need someone else in management to help this process move along do they need a george jomez to kick people in the ass and be like because i know for a fact if someone was going to pay me for five years to just come up with pinball designs oh i'm just going to sit there and make pinball designs i'm not going to really care about what gets made or not i mean i'm gonna have fun shooting the shit and talking pinball with everybody you know it feels like this is a company made of fans and no businessmen that makes any sense no it does and uh you know i don't want to beat the dead horse but yeah how do you recover from having a designer like dennis nordman and then like i said because of many things he leaves right yeah we don't know why he keeps leaving no he just can't stick around no but you know he's he's there he designs supposedly several games and then nothing gets manufactured and now he's gone yeah bye-bye so you know i i i think i agree with you that um you know much like stern and every other company they want to make good pinball but like ian and i want to make good pinball but we don't know how right i mean we have it designed in our head the ball's gonna go up then it's go back down and it's gonna go back up again back up and it's gonna be great you gotta love it all right well enough of this silliness all right i don't know i don't have much else to talk about fucking deep root for you know deep root they're gonna do what they're gonna do i'm not gonna poo-poo them i'm not gonna shut them out right now i i'm just gonna root for them like i have been um i want them to get it right but again it comes down to manufacturing and until they can start making these games you gotta just take it with a grain of salt everything that he tells you everything that he's going to show us in the next few months until manufacturing hits there's not a whole lot we can do about it right there's nothing we can buy there's nothing we can play we can just watch pretty pictures of pretty cool things and maybe see it at a show whenever shows start up again but um there's not a lot right now to be excited about and again this is a theme business i know a lot of guys out there love original themes but original themes don't sell as well as actual licensed themes so raise your hand if you like original themes in 2020 i got one october fest i got an october fest did you did you see um speaking of original themes did you see the secret game canada revealed like his buddy's been working on it canada's been talking about it off and on for god i've heard i heard him talk about it but no i did not see it It was just Merlin. It was like a wizard.
    28:29
    It was like your tattoo. That was it? Yeah, well, I guess that's the game. It's a Merlin game. Okay. Not that I was expecting a licensed game, but, you know,
    28:39
    Canada's good at hyping shit up. You can tell it's a marker. He gets super excited about shit, you know, and you go, oh, Merlin.
    28:47
    Cool. Jeremy Schmidt says, yes, TNA. And I agree with you. but unfortunately jeremy that's like the exception and not the rule all right glenn and tony both raised their hands drew so yeah put your hands down you guys aren't running this shit yeah t t tna tna is a great example of a non-licensed team thank you for bringing that up jeremy but um you know like i said that's the outlier i mean i'm fine with a lot of the original themes from the 90s and stuff, but in today's world, it's really hard to compete with those. That's the problem. It's not even that it won't be a good game. It could be the best game ever. It's not going to sell as well. Look at Black Knight.
    29:34
    Black Knight is a fun game, but even with that, it's still lacking in theme. It just is what it is. There's no getting over that.
    29:48
    That's my two cents. Would you rather have Laser War 2 or The Goonies? Yeah. If you ask – Laser War 2. If you pose it that way and you ask people, would you rather have this or that, it's almost always going to be a licensed theme. Right. Perfect.
    30:07
    So, all right. Yes, TNA. Merlin or some shit. Yep, Pete Quint. It is Merlin. Pinball Merlin. Yeah, so, you know, I don't know. I like Wizards. Wizards are cool as shit. But I would like to see more of that game too. But, again, that's probably going to be a boutique limited run. I'll probably never see one in the wild.
    30:29
    Mm-hmm. Nope. It's one of those things that, yeah, they're just going to make a few of them. And I'm sure, you know, it'll be well-received. And, you know, it's probably a fun game. But there again. Yep. So that's Deep Root. Should we move on? Let's move on from Deep Root. Moving on. All right. So JJP, our rumor was wrong. I will bitch slap that person later. But. We owe Kaneda a drink. Yeah, no shit. Kaneda said we were full of shit. We said he was full of shit. And it turns out we're all full of shit. I didn't see that one coming. So we did not get the reveal, the JJP reveal last Friday. Kind of bummed about it. I thought it made sense coming up just before Deep Root. now this week in pinball is reporting that it will be an October release. So next month, what do you think about that? Drew, are you excited about guns and roses?
    31:28
    I am, but I'm tempered a little bit on it just because I don't know if it's, maybe I'm expecting too much. I think that it might not be as good as I think it's in my head. Maybe. Are you getting the hype effect? Yes, yes. There has been a lot of hype around it. I have no doubt it's going to be a good game.
    31:53
    I have no doubt that it's going to be a fun game. It's going to look great. You know, all those things, it's probably going to be up there in the top, I'm just going to say top 25 or whatever. But, you know, it's just not something. I was talking to Tim Lee about this actually this week, and I said, even if it's a great game, without seeing it, I still think that I would probably choose Avengers over that if those were my two options.
    32:23
    I get it. So what about you? You'd probably go Guns N' Roses, right? Over Avengers? Yeah. Yeah, because it's a JJP game. They put more shit in their game. Okay, that's fair. That's fair.
    32:36
    I'm a poor man at heart, man. I don't care what the theme is. If you put shit in a game, I'm getting it. That's why I like American pinball. Sure. They put shit in their games, man. Charlie Martin, he put Big Trouble in Little China is a good theme. Charlie, did you see or hear the George Gomez interview? Was that at Saps where he talked about how they actually approached him with the Big Trouble in Little China theme? And he was like, nobody wants that. And I almost crashed my car. I was so upset that George Gomez. I think it was this year. It was like last month. I think it was Saps, but I could have cried. I was like, no, George, no. That would have been the game I would have gotten an LE. There's a few themes out there that I'd sell some shit to get an LE, but it is what it is. Let's see. GNR, going to be an awesome location game, Tim Lee.
    33:33
    Glenn Wecker, get a storyboard, let the artist be involved from the beginning and use some creativity. I was so excited for Raza. Still am. But I am a location player. No games in this poor man's house. No doubt, man.
    33:48
    Reveal at Expo Seminar? I don't know. What if it is a swerve and it isn't GNR? Jasper Rotter. It's GNR. I think Jersey Jack is all but hinted at it now. I don't know. I mean, they've been pretty gung-ho about it. and even Slash hasn't really kept his mouth shut. He has said that it's coming, so I'm pretty sure it is GNR.
    34:14
    Yeah. GNR is going to be a re-theme of Wonka, Tim Lee. Well, it means it'll be better than anything that Stern has released. Let's see here.
    34:24
    Yes, it was Saps. Thank you, Mike Williams. Yeah, so George Gomez. Eric Braden Walker, curious to see the difference between the SC and the LE. That's a great point. what would you have and what would you take out of a gnr machine you know because everything right now we've been talking has been what are the different mechs the artwork um you know all the songs that are going to be on there um concert footage so it sounds like it's going to be pretty loaded yeah based on what they did with wonka there will probably be you know one main thing that they're going to rip out to get to that price point. Yeah, absolutely.
    35:06
    You know, they'll have a game that they'll, you know, their price may be the same. You know, they might be $75 or, you know, $7,800, and that'll be your standard. And then the, you know, $9,000, whatever, will be the LE, I guess.
    35:23
    Do you think they're going to raise the price, or do you think they're going to keep it like Wonka? I think they're going to raise it.
    35:29
    Hmm. by like they're gonna do this they're in a hundred dollars are they gonna do like a five it'll be something up it'll be something up and i'm pretty sure the standard edition is gonna have one guns and roses song and the rest are gonna be like uh you know mega death is cheaper you know something like that yeah yeah i could see that but they should limit the le's yes you're right 100 jasper otter their 500 le's is ridiculous i'm pretty sure they haven't sold all they said 5 000 what limited i don't know about wonka but they said i think that was 500 yeah it's 5 000 some stupid number nobody's so yeah jjp isn't selling out any le's anytime soon guys oh no that's the thing you can still buy uh dialed in le's right now in the box yeah so it is what it is captain lawler didn't really think that one through did he yeah well it's just it's just the name you know and and canada has said it many times and i agree with them wholeheartedly like just call it something he's like call it a premium just like stern you know that's what it is it's a premium game so 5,000 le 500 ce eric brand walker god bless it 5,000 is a dumb number super limited christopher franchi of course it was saps who else could get gomez you're right christopher franchi speaking of speaking of Christopher Franchi and Saps, this super awesome pinball show, they just had Keith Elwin on. So please check out that episode. They interviewed Mr. Elwin himself. Franchi finally pulling some strings, finally. They've only been a podcast for a year, and now they're starting to get some pretty decent stern guys there. But, no, good job, good job, Chris, and you guys kick ass on that show. We are the anti-kick ass show. We're just the drinking dumb show. Chris Franchi, we're still waiting for John Borg to join us in chat.
    37:49
    Yeah, Chris, any word on those Creature from the Black Lagoon translights? Because I'm excited. I'm getting ready. Saving up all my hard-earned pennies.
    38:00
    Sing happy birthday to Chris Franchi. Chris Franchi, happy birthday, buddy. We love you. I'm not singing to you. Happy birthday to you. happy birthday to you happy birthday you dear lovable motherfucking franchi happy birthday to you
    38:26
    happy birthday chris franchi and then billy yj chris franchi did you ever make it down to ryan c and jesse j and your thong uh that's right they were talking about it on their podcast about getting them there in a thong that was the birthday wish yep yep oh you guys slapped me mike williams stop please stop mike williams don't be jelly of the pipes brother don't be jelly all right so it's a natural thanks joe uh jesse j billy y j we are still waiting with a bated breath oh man all right so so anything else you guys want to talk about regarding guns and roses because really there's not a lot yet until we see it in october like i said this show is ridiculous set 100 stars thank you tony i appreciate you brother thanks guys if i have to sing for 100 stars we can make you know 100 stars oh man all right so what else you Speaking of Guns N' Roses, this is a good segue.
    39:34
    Tim Lee on the Poor Man's Pinball fan page posted the question, what would it take for you to be interested in getting a GNR?
    39:46
    Some interesting answers. Let's go into it because I was a little surprised. What would it take for you to buy a GNR? uh joe what is it sizzy siz siz czyz like could that be the most confusing last name probably just a bunch of consonants uh i like jg i like jjp games but this theme doesn't have me pulling out my wallet it would have to be over the top max incredible it'd have to be over the top max incredible game flow coherent gameplay story and bring something never seen before i'm sure the music integration with videos will be spectacular since they co-designed with GNR, probably got full access to music library. The bar is set high by Eric with Pirates of the Caribbean. I wonder if the LE slash CE price will go up due to the band's involvement. I still think it will, regardless of the band's involvement. I think this is one of those themes that they think they're going to do well with, and I think they're going to pump it up and try to get as much of our money as possible. But good points, good points, everything. You know, it's all about what the game's going to have. Is it going to be enough to get us all excited? Josh Mudd.
    41:01
    Yeah, he'd get it if it was Toy Story. So, you know, I get it, Josh. You're into the Toy Story, which is fine. Totally cool, man. But it's GNR. It's not Toy Story. I'm sorry. Next time. Scott Hudson. Change the theme to anything else, then I'd be excited. Ooh. That's two. Brad Hopkins. I am enjoying people making fun of this pin, but seriously, it is possible to make a great pin out of a bad theme. So if the game is great, I would be interested. I still haven't fully figured out what makes me love some pins than others.
    41:36
    Hate or dislike, one others love. Okay, he's Canadian, so I don't know what he's saying. But a pinball machine is not a math problem. It is more like a work of art. Interesting. No, he's right there. Very deep, Brad. Because, you know, he's saying that theme isn't everything and good games are good games, which is true. Orbital Albert said a different band. Ooh. That's three. Chris Haper. Three for not GNR. Chris Haper, CE priced at 5K. Ooh.
    42:06
    I think you can buy the legs and maybe the speaker for that. And the art package, but separate. There you go. Not attached to any box. It's just, yeah, just rolled up art. Ian Harwer, I like GNR well enough I will listen to Appetite for Destruction every once in a while I even actually enjoy Use Your Illustration 1 plus 2 but the imagery and the feeling Use Your Illustration 1 plus 2 you just killed some people online What?
    42:34
    Use Your Illusion, it's an album Use Your Illusion 1 plus 2, that's what I read Go ahead Did I say something wrong?
    42:44
    Illustration Illusion. Oh, yeah, Illusion, one plus two. Sorry. But the imagery and the theme really mean nothing to me. At best, GNR reminds me of a bunch of grade six school kids with plaid shirts tied around their waist.
    42:58
    Scott Larson, not my theme. Jake Danzig, if it was Slayer. Ari Jones. Like I said, Ari Jones has been on fire lately. This theme is so tricky for JJP. Even if the pin is revolutionary, GNR is a tough band to force people to listen to for hours on end. I like a few of their songs, okay, but that's it. I am probably wrong, but I think the crossover of people that love pinball, people with 9K to spend, and people that love GNR is pretty minuscule. All right, well, so a lot of answers like that. I was a little shocked. There was not a lot of love for the theme, which has me a little worried for JJP just a bit. What do you think, Drew?
    43:43
    I'm not really worried. I think, well, if they think they're selling 5,000 L.E.s, they're probably not. But I think Wonka sold pretty well, right? We can all kind of agree on that. I hope so. Wonka was a cool game. Yeah, Wonka was a cool theme. Wonka was a cool game.
    44:08
    So if this follows that trend and it's a cool theme, which it is, and it's a cool game, which Eric Minier is designing it, so I have no doubt that it will be, I think they're going to have some sales. But I also think that it's not going to be the monster hit that maybe they're looking for just because there's so many other choices. Once again, you look at value for money and you look at what's out there, and there's a lot out there. Right. so um you know it's it's really it's really tough when you say hey i have eight thousand dollars what do i want to spend it on so there's a lot of choices a lot of good choices i think about it every day you know so oh what should i do with this okay because you know once again if if you're not the world's biggest GNR fan, which there aren't... There a lot of fans out there but once again now you got Avengers and you still got Deadpool and you have Jurassic Park and you have potentially CGC coming out with something So all these different things that are happening, and most people aren't going to buy them all, so you've got to choose. I feel like it's been years since CGC released a game. It has been a while, and I think they're overdue. And, you know, and people can still buy, you know, Rick and Morty's because they're still making them and people are selling their spots.
    45:49
    So, you know, we don't talk about it much, but if you want to go out and get a Rick and Morty right now, you can do that as well, right? So. Yeah, Rick and Morty. Who here in chat has a Rick and Morty and how do you like it?
    46:02
    Other than that. Anybody. Anyone. Bueller. I don't know. yep and tim lee says i love metallica and owned one but the music over and over was getting to me sold it so you know i don't know uh there's there's a lot there's a lot of band pins out there so this but this is jersey jack's first uh crack at it so is kaz in chat today if he's not in chat we should add him to the tribe just to fuck with him guys today was your day you missed it you don't get i was gonna add you but you're not in chat bro i don't know i don't know what happened are we are we assholes so i don't know i mean so you you said you would like gnr over the current offerings though uh i have to see it but yeah usually i mean eric minier is pretty much a stud when it comes to designing shit so um yeah i i liked pirates of the caribbean i wanted to buy one i should have um but i don't have money well what the fuck was i gonna do hold on i gotta get a mixer yes yes yes right next to me you got it you're good i just did with a box of red bull next to me. That's all I do now.
    47:32
    Father of a two-year-old and a full-time job and a full-time wife. You better fucking believe I got some Red Bull in me.
    47:39
    Staying busy. Gives me wings, baby. All right. How about we take a quick cocktail break? Tim Lee, Brian Kossner has 15 minutes to accept. Sorry, Koss. All right. Cocktail break. All right. Guys, hold on for a second, and we will be right back. Flippin' Out Pinball. You want a new Stern? Boom, we have you covered. You want a new Chicago Gaming Company remake? Boom, we have you covered. You want a brand-new Shiny from JJP? Guess what? Boom, we have you covered again. P3 Multimorphic? We can do that, too. We got mods, shaker motors, even some used pinball inventory. Flippin' Out Pinball also sells the Stair Climbing Escalera Hand Truck. Email Zach at FlipinOutPinball or call or text 812-457-9711. Zach at FlipinOutPinball. Flip, letter N, OutPinball.
    48:42
    Oh, I see that Brian Coz is responding. Hey, Brian, how's it going, brother? Yeah, so we were talking about adding you to the tribe because we didn't see you on chat today. So not yet, brother. We're going to get you on there, baby. We're going to get you on there. But, yeah, that was just a joke, and I'm glad you showed up. And hanging out at the beach house, that sounds way better, way better than what the shit we're doing.
    49:09
    So, Drew, how are you doing over there, pal? Did you fill up all right? Yeah, I'm good to go. I'm ready to do this. All right, so our next thing to do is just waiting on you, Drew. Oh, are you waiting on me?
    49:27
    Our next thing to do is to talk more shit about more shit. Guys, we're just here to drink and hang out with you guys. We're just here to entertain the masses today because, yeah, it's been a slow week. Brian Kassler sent 10 stars. You got to send... Thanks, Brian. Appreciate it, brother. 1,000 more for a tribe membership. What does our tribe membership cost now? Nothing. I think it's 2,800 stars. Jasper Harada, what are you drinking for round two? I'm drinking the same shit. Drew, are you drinking Kessler's over there still?
    50:06
    Or are you mixing it up, brother? No, I am still drinking Kessler. Same thing. Kessler and some carbonated water, pretty much.
    50:20
    Jesse J., I like Cock Rock as much as the next person, but the idea of hearing Paradise City multiple times a day makes me want to eat my own face off. I'm going to like that comment because it's totally true, Jesse. It's like it's a good band, but it's, I don't know, man. It's not something that fucking blows my hair back. It doesn't make my cock rock, so I don't know. I really have no, like I said, there's some songs that are good. They come on and you're like, fuck, yeah. But you can't, the repeatability on those songs is terrible. I mean, you've got to be pretty drunk to really want to sing multiple GNR songs or be Kaneda.
    51:05
    Yeah, I guess I like their songs a lot, but when you talk about your top five or six or eight favorite bands, they just don't pop up there. No, not that. Yeah, everyone likes their songs, but nobody would consider them their favorite band, unless you're Kaneda.
    51:25
    Yeah. Weird, right? Yeah, does anyone else know anyone who Guns N' Roses is their favorite band? Like, GNR for life! I mean, I'm not being a dick. I'm just asking. Like, I don't know anybody like that. Yeah, I don't know either, man. I don't know either. I try to, I don't like to make fun of people that like shit. And if you like GNR, that's great. But it's just one of those weird bands. It's just an interesting anomaly because they sell well and they're talented. But it's also, I think it's a very specialized cock rock, like Jesse J. Yeah. I love that you call it cock rock. That's awesome.
    52:09
    Charlie Martin, what would happen if you guys interviewed Kaneda? We already did that. Yeah, we had him on the show. Kaneda and I. our best friends yeah we we talk all the time doesn't he say that on all of his shows oh me and so and so are best friends we talk all the time now kaneda and i message back and forth quite a bit we talked a little bit today in fact um just in preparation and waiting for this damn uh deep reveal and and then it never happened so i don't know man um we like kaneda we actually like him a lot he's he is who he is he's a personality and that's how we view him as a personality so um we like to give him shit and he likes to give us shit he's in a better taste yeah he uh was giving us shit for but he was like he's great at um oh fucking insulting us well he was insulting us enough but in a backhanded compliments that's what he was doing to us the other day when he was going he went live and he was like you know what i was talking with ian and so they got their rumor wrong big deal it doesn't mean they suck at podcasting or something and i was like who's saying this who said that nobody said that no one was giving a shit about being wrong on a rumor we said it was a rumor and he did this thing where he just twisted it he was like no one you know nobody's saying they're bad guys or you know and but you know just because they were wrong once it's okay it's podcasting who gives a fuck just have fun right ian i'm just like
    53:38
    Just keep drinking, buddy. We had one rumor. I mean, we just, yeah, we just like having fun. I mean, this is why we're doing this. This is so cool just, like, talking to you guys while we're doing this because this is interesting, and you guys find it interesting. Obviously, you guys are here, and we don't have to have the best content in the world. We just want to be entertaining. Oh, yeah.
    54:03
    Shoot the shit, build a community, have some fun, have some laughs, have a drink. What are you guys drinking out there? Is anyone drinking? I would like to hear some drinks that you guys are drinking right now. Jesse J., it's probably like breakfast time, right? It's Cheerio Day. So are you having Australian Cheerios with some whiskey, Jesse J.? Is that even racist for me to say? I don't know. Charlie Martin, I listen to three to four podcasts. You guys are on my list. Canada's number one, SAP, and then you guys. I don't like that order, but that's fine, Charlie. So wait, you listen to three or four, and we're number three? Yeah. That's a backhanded compliment, too.
    54:42
    Thanks, Charlie. Just buckling you, Charlie. Thanks for listening to us live. We're glad you're here, buddy. And, Charlie, we are no longer a podcast. We are the number one rated live pinball show in the world. I will say this. Besides Kaneda, I don't think any of these other shows can do it live. I will just say that.
    55:00
    Well, Kaneda could, but he does, actually. He does. I said besides Kaneda, we're the only ones that can do it.
    55:08
    Chris Franchi, you like that order. Of course you do, Chris. Thank you, Ari Jones, for the 100 stars, man. Two-week streak. Oh, man, what are you going to give us next week? Oh, I can't wait. That's so ridiculous that they put that two-week streak. Whatever.
    55:21
    George Dickel. I'm lost there. Who's George Dickel? Wasn't there a race car driver by the name of Dick?
    55:30
    George Dickel, they make whiskey. He makes, well, I'm sure he doesn't do it. He's probably dead. But George Dicko Whiskey is from Tennessee.
    55:42
    Oh, Dick Trickle. That was the name of the race car driver. Dick Trickle. He was the NASCAR guy, right? Oh, man. I thought he was kind of more like Milwaukee Mile, like the league below.
    55:56
    He might have been a NASCAR. I don't know. If anyone knows the history of Dick Trickle, let us know. But, yeah, he was a race car driver, I believe, for a few different circuits.
    56:08
    Josh, what was the most surprising reveal since you guys have been involved in pinball? Reveal as in games?
    56:19
    Surprising. The Star Wars. The Avengers was pretty surprising. Which one? The Avengers was pretty surprising. Avengers? Yeah. I was going to say the Star Wars home pin. That threw me off. I could not figure that out for the life of me.
    56:36
    But I played it, and it's okay. It's a pretty decent game. Most of them knew what they were before they got revealed, right? Right, right. I mean, the most exciting was Willy Wonka because we were actually there. They revealed it at MGC. And then Black Knight was also revealed basically at MGC. That was just a wild day where we got to play both. all the versions of Black Knight and we were able to play Wonka and it was fucking fantastic. We had so much fun doing that.
    57:09
    That was also where we played Beatles for the first time and we also played Alice Cooper for the first time. Yes.
    57:21
    Yes, yes, yes. MGC had a killer show that year. Just killer. Jesse J, I'm on my lunch hour So naturally, mainlining beer and kangaroo meat.
    57:36
    Well, now I don't feel like my statement was racist at all because that was way worse. Yeah, way to go, Jesse J.
    57:46
    Listening to us, eating our kangaroo meat, thinking about, you know, Cock Rock. So thank you, Jesse. Rachel, honey brandy and caramel apple cider. Two down, bedtime soon, LOL. Yes, absolutely. I am with you there. Ice cold Coors Light, Jeremy Schmitz. All right. You made the list. That's true, Charlie. Thank you.
    58:10
    Christopher Franchi. I like that order. You know what? Okay. Thank you. Kaneda is doing Facebook Lives. Yes, he is. Drop the cheese. Let's drop the cheese. You're right, Steven.
    58:22
    We had no cheese light in this episode. until now. It was sloppy, but it worked. We'll do it one more time. You know why we have cheese slices? Because Drew's not drunk. They're pushing the button. He's just hitting the cheese, baby. Cheese!
    58:40
    We love the cheese slices, Stephen. Appreciate it, brother. Are you taking shots? No, not yet. We're planning on doing that, though. That's going to be part of the show. That's going to be part of the cheese. Not the cheese, but the stars. so we're still working out the kinks and as soon as drew gets his fucking ass over here we'll uh we'll be doing some shots i i gotta i gotta clean up my covid jasper rotter uh banana daiquiri you fucker i don't wait jesse j poor man i owe you an apology why do you owe us an apology uh drinking bourbon all right dick trickle steven silver knows dick trickle pinball nerds is absolutely your fifth favorite, right? Rest in peace, Dick Trickle. Yep. Sounds like the pills client is buying. Dr. John, is the USA the only place that has yellow cheese slices? Yes. Because we eat like shit over here and everything is yellow and full of chemicals. What color is your cheese, bro? Is it white?
    59:37
    It's normal cheese colored. We have all the different colored cheeses. I don't know what the problem is. wait hang on oh jesse j remember when i ripped you about pin glass and said it only takes 2.5 seconds to get off yes yes please tell me more about that jesse j because i was upset when you told me that so just to fill you guys in last week uh part of my deep root innovations i wanted to see was the like the hood for the glass right that would pop up and people gave me so much shit for it. They're like, oh, you're too lazy to just take off your glass. You need like a hood. I was like, well, no, I'm not too lazy. I just think it'd be cool. And Jesse J was giving me shit too. So now I want to hear what she has to say about it. She brought it up, by the way, not me.
    60:28
    Oh, I tried it drunk the other day and I absolutely rescind that statement, says Jesse J. Well, thank you. I accept your apology. Yeah, you have to understand that Drew and I are drunk usually when we play pinball. So when we move glass around, It's not a good idea. It's just not. No. No, it's a terrible idea. I mean, who here, okay, we're in chat. Who here has broken pinball glass before? I have yet to do it. I'm always nervous it's going to happen because I play with my pinball glass all the time.
    60:59
    Yeah, another question out there, too. How many of you guys actually have pin stadium lights? And which one of you, who likes pin stadium lights in general? I'm just curious. Market, you know, trying to figure out a little bit about Penn Stadium, see who likes that.
    61:19
    Jesus Christ. Jesse J. hasn't had the pleasure of glass exploding in your hand yet, says Dr. John. And Dr. John also says twice, both wide-body games. That's interesting. So that glass was too big for you, huh, Dr. John? Too big for the man. Too much glass? Tim Lee, I have broken glass. Glass on a pinball machine, Tim?
    61:45
    Charlie, if you haven't broken glass, you're not trying. Tim Lee, I like pin stadiums. Yeah, I like pin stadiums as well. I was just curious what other people think about pin stadiums. I have a real pin stadiums on Waz needed.
    62:01
    So, like, all right, I wasn't, you know, when I first tried my, you know, when I first bought my first set of pin stadium lights, it was four, black rose my first game and i only did it because i saw zach and greg talk about it on the straight down the middle because when they did the review on black rose if you saw it i mean the whole play field was so lit up nicely i i didn't even know to be honest i when i was playing that game it's so dark i honestly didn't even notice like a lot of the water and some of the gems and jewels that are in that game and uh when i watched the review i was like is that really what the game looks like and they talked about pin stadiums really brightening up that game i was like oh shit all right i'll buy them and then i bought them i'm like all right dude it's legit for older games especially some of those williams games now not every game needs pin stadiums but i was just curious uh if you guys are buying pin stadiums for what games and how do you like them or conversely if you don't like pin stadiums um you know we've talked about it before i think it's very game dependent.
    63:06
    That there are some games that, you know, especially the older games, you can, you know, do without. But a lot of the newer games, I think, you know, they're almost necessary. So, Steven Silver, I popped a glass at the office once, had hands covered in Batman Band-Aids the rest of the day.
    63:27
    Josh Mudd, my fast break needs them. The Penn Stadiums. Yeah. Yeah, like I said, just a lot of the newer games, it can wash out a good light show in modern games. Yeah, but that's when you can set them up however you want. Yeah, you can adjust the brightness. Yeah, you don't have to have them as bright. I used to be like, oh, put them as bright as possible, and now I mess with them. Yeah, I was worried about my light show on my CGC Monster Bash. I really was because that light show is phenomenal. So I actually kept the Penn Stadiums relatively dim. So it didn't affect the light show as much, but I was able to appreciate some of the artwork that was on the machine.
    64:07
    You know what's worse to me than that is when you have a game with no pin stadiums and you're just like, why can't I see this? Why is it so dark? Right? Yeah. You know, what was shocking to me was when I saw my first like lit up play field. Now it wasn't pin saves that lit up. I think there was just some lights on it or I saw some photos But first time I saw the Adams family play field lit up Because I have never If you go on location The Adams family is always the darkest fucking pin in the lineup And I never see the artwork until years later I'm in my late 30s I'm like, oh shit So that's what's going on with that play field I know the house and I know the staircase But that's about it It's pretty much completely black for me So this. Yeah. So Tim Lee says too many options confuses this dumbass.
    65:02
    I have talked to Scott a little bit about this and he knows that he's trying to consolidate his line. Yeah. He he's been putting out all these new products and these new things. And, yeah, I agree. I mean, there's a lot on the site and it's hard to determine, like, why is this one better than this one? And why is this one one hundred dollars more than that one? So I think he's kind of working on that. so hopefully soon he'll have it a little more streamlined and a little more less confusing I guess but all the products are great and then Tony says how about a homemade set of poor man's pin stadiums I have one of those on my Simpsons because Simpsons doesn't have an amazing light show I just wanted to light it up so I went to Depot I made the poor man's version, and it's fine.
    65:56
    You know, it literally just lights up the play field. So when I turn on the game, they're on, it looks good. You know, so I said game dependent. You know, I said Simpsons was an early 2000s game. They weren't doing crazy light shows and stuff. So it is what it is. But, yeah, you can do that too. But, you know, the standard Penn Stadiums are good on just about every game, I will say. Speaking of standard Penn Stadiums, Drew, We have a set to give away of standard Penn Stadium. So what we're going to do, free giveaway. Holy crap. Did we just do a segue and I didn't even know it? We just did a segue. So this is what we're going to do, guys. We're going to give away a standard set of Penn Stadium lights, brand new, from Scott.
    66:40
    And what we want you to do is email us. Should we do it live, Drew, or should we have it available to everyone?
    66:49
    You mean not today, right? Well, I'm going to ask right now. All right. We'll do this. Email us at thepoormanspinballpodcast at gmail.com. poormanspinball at gmail.com. What?
    67:05
    poormanspinball at gmail.com. Is that what I said? I said podcast, didn't I? You added lots of words. poormanspinball at gmail.com. email us and tell us what game you own that you would love a set of pin stadiums on and what we'll do you're not eligible sorry and drew and i no ari jones ari jones isn't eligible either jones you're definitely not all right you can go and forget you i won't say it but yeah so why don't you send us an email with the game of your choice that you own that you want the Penn Stadium lights on. And Drew and I will definitely pick the winner for next week's show. Sound good? And it only cost you 3 stars No True
    68:01
    My wife says live. So there we go. Sorry, Charlie Martin. We weren't prepared for this. Ian kind of sideswiped me. We've been talking about it, but here we are. No, we want to give everyone an opportunity. We'll give everyone an opportunity for this one, but we have another giveaway for next week, so we'll do that live next week. So if you're here listening to this. It's a free giveaway and Ari Jones. Yeah, if you're listening to this on our podcast, guys, go to our live show next week, next Monday, 830 Central, and we actually will have a live giveaway also. It won't be Penn Stadiums. It'll be something else. So we're just in the giving mood. Fuck it. Let's start giving shit away. We got shit to give away, so let's give it away.
    68:44
    Jesse J says, Alec would look sexy lit up with some Penn Stadiums. You all are going to ship to Australia. I agree Alec would look good with some Penn Stadiums. Shipping to Australia would probably be more than the Penn Stadium. I don't care if you're from Australia. I don't care. Throw it in. Send us an email. I'll pay shipping.
    69:01
    Yep. Well, I think Scott ships internationally, doesn't he? Well, I'll pay for some of it. I got $10.
    69:11
    All right, so that's what we'll do. That's the plan. So email us what game you want to throw Penn Stadiums on. Drew and I will read some of the answers. Make sure it's a game that is deserving of Penn Stadiums. And what I mean by that is make sure it's a dark, shitty game. No, I'm just kidding. But make it interesting. And you have to own it. And what I'm going to want, this is what I'm going to request, once you get to Penn Stadiums, send us a picture, a before and after picture. Yes, definitely. What it was looking like before and what it looks like after. okay so i'm not sure pin stadium lights will work in my virtual pinball machine there's only one way to find out buddy so he says every machine he hasn't had a machine that it didn't fit in yet so that's what we're gonna do okay so let's back up slightly um send us that email poor man's pinball gmail.com with the game and uh why you think it would work well with the pin stadiums drew and i will read it on the air next week we will choose one we will ship you those pin stadiums you then send us a picture so we can put it on our page sound good um and then also next yes we will also send we'll have a giveaway for our live audience so make sure everyone shows up next monday at 8 30 central and we will give away something fun out of hot wheels Jasper Rotter somebody said something about Santa and he goes because Drew goes to the mall and asks kids to sit on his lap no but I go to the bars and ask beautiful women to sit on my lap I have so many stories about Drew asking people to sit on his lap and Josh Mudd said if you have mirror blades on them yeah they go along with mirror blades so that is not a problem Dr. John wasn't that random or do we need nipple shots I'm saying nipple shots what? what are we talking about again? you gotta catch up with chat here man yeah I'm sorry I know Josh Mudd was having issues with he doesn't like the angle of the Penn Stadium where you can see the dots and that's what Josh Mudd was referring to I think with the mirror blades but really if you're playing it you don't notice it yeah that's true if you're sitting down from across the room you'd notice it both and it's fine like right now i'm sitting down i'm looking at octoberfest i definitely see the lights it doesn't bother me i mean honestly dude the october octoberfest has like their own set of pin stadiums on the back of the uh the game so there are these what are they going to start building these in that's my question yes sorry sorry ian i started something in chat Steven Silver says, is the prize next week sitting on Drew's lap?
    72:12
    Yes, yes it is. MGC can't get here close soon enough. Steven Silver, are you going to be at MGC whenever it shows up?
    72:22
    You going to make it down to Milwaukee sometime? Prove me wrong and send some, Josh Mudd. You know, a good entry would be that hard body, brother. Yep. That would be – that's begging for some Penn Stadiums. You got all the awesome, cool lights in your basement and stuff and all those cool pop culture things. You need some Penn Stadiums on the hard body.
    72:47
    Yeah, the prize is the COVID. The real prize is the COVID that comes with it. Yes. You guys. I will give you disappointment and the COVID at the same time.
    73:01
    Maybe, Steven Silver, maybe. That's awesome, brother. We would love that. Absolutely, dude. You could sit on June's lap anyway. You know he's going to be fucking blasted off his ass at these shows. Yeah, I'm an equal opportunity. I welcome everybody. I'm a hugger. Everyone knows me. I'm a hugger. Who else? Who else goes to MGC?
    73:22
    Jeremy Schmidt says I'm there. Jeremy, I need to see you soon. I haven't seen you in a while, buddy.
    73:29
    Yeah, no, MGC. Do we think MGC is going on? How about that? I have no idea. I don't even want to speculate. I'm excited when it shows up, when it is there, so we can show off this laser war finally. Yeah. Otherwise, if it doesn't happen next year, we just might need to sell it. Yeah. Does it kill COVID while you're quarantined? Jasper, I'm probably going to have a negative test. You're right. It does kill COVID. But I'm not a doctor. Ask Dr. John about that because I don't want to be sued.
    74:03
    What do you want to be sued? I'm writing up a lap-sitting contract now. Oh, you guys. Oh, Steven. If some kind of animation involved with that, yeah, just people sitting on Drew's lap, that'd be great. Tim Lee, I will be there. Tim Lee, nice, man. That would be cool. Tim Lee, I would. Mike Williams says I think it could happen I think so too We're getting to the point people I think what is it Dallas Cowboys have people in the stadium now And the fans But people in Texas are fucking weird though They're crazy they don't give a shit They don't believe COVID exists That's the thing I think people are not They're like yeah this thing's over It doesn't exist or whatever And then it's going to spike again And then we're going to be shut down again So who knows yeah i'd like to see some of our aussies there it'd be nice to meet some people i know we didn't meet rod and last time but rod and sure as hell saw us isn't that true isn't that the truth that was an expo oh true god bless you man i love mgc best show around yeah jeremy that's cool man i i um i used to i went to one of the original it was one of the originals it was it was it was right when king of kong came out so it was it was back in the day but yeah that was that was an early one that was an early mgc and it was that was the first time i fell in love with pinball honestly um because i saw that creature from the black lagoon for two thousand dollars and i thought that was a fucking crazy price but boy it was so fucking pretty now i kick myself in the ass i mean a creature for two grand is a killer deal but at the time i was a broke-ass kid broke-ass kid but man the blacks were black as shit on that on that play field and the greens on that with the purple it just pops so i need a creature i just do i've been wanting a creature since i got into this hobby is there a game out there guys that you when you got into this hobby you fell in love with but you haven't gotten it yet like it's your it's that game that means that much to you uh i wouldn't say it means that much to me but the one that when I first saw it and kind of like you said it was it was just out of my price range at the time and it's funny saying it now because it's way less than what I've been spending right uh Funhaus Funhaus you know because when I first got into it you know Funhaus they were like I was like oh four thousand dollars that's just crazy right you know after I bought my last action hero and you know I thought Funhaus was a cool game and I played it a couple of times and I was like this is awesome and uh yeah that's just one that i think someday i'd like to own at least for a little while yeah so you know it probably wouldn't it might not stay in my collection but yeah i think uh it's just something i want to i want to play for a little while so nba we got nba fast break we got we got a few here hold on demo man josh mud yeah demo man is damn that is uh oh man josh i wish you were around here because ryan kuiper turbo graphics 7 he has the prettiest demo man i've ever fucking seen i don't know if he even plays it to be honest because i think it was uh was it a heifer store or something dude it was it's it was it wasn't a but it was it was pretty good it was a high end you look at it and it just shines the chrome just shines nba fast break billy why'd you do that i'm gonna put on my mask and come over he says he's got a fun house and i can play uh mine's a creature too chris rancher yeah creature would be god damn it it's such a pretty game um was yeah tim lee yeah i mean wizard of oz too that's another one of those crazy games where when i see it i just can't i'm in awe of it and then i'm a little intimidated by it and then when i shoot it i always play like shit i'm just like is there too much shit in this game like i love everything that's in it but i also i'm like is there too much in here but it yeah dude i would love to own a wise i'd love to fucking beat the shit out of that game uh jesse j dread judge dread judge dread is a fun game you know i i even on this podcast I've given Dredd some shit.
    78:33
    But after beating Cary Hardy, I'm going to always say that, after kicking Cary Hardy's ass at Expo on Judge Dredd, I was like, fuck, yeah, dude. This game is killer. It is fun. Adam's Family and still expensive. Yeah, Tony, dude. Adam's Family, I'll never understand. It's 20,000 games made usually means that game will be cheap, right? Nine times out of ten. Adam's Family? No, dude. It's still expensive. I think that's because there were 20,000 made, but I think 20,000 of them were beat to shit at the arcade. And it's very rare to get a really, really nice Adam's Family. And I think the really nice ones are really expensive. The beat to shit ones are still expensive for what they are. Does that make sense? It is. Because, once again, I mean, you think about all the other games. Like we're talking about Creature and Funhaus from that era that are way less expensive. Whirlwind, BillyYJ. Yeah, Whirlwind is a game that I played a few times on location. Whirlwind's a fun fucking game. The shots are perfect. If there's any game that has perfect shots, I'd say Taxi's one of them. Whirlwind's another. Just perfect. It just flows so nicely. The problem with the Whirlwind we played, though, it was at a bar, and that fan was working, boy, that was blowing some nasty shit on me. It was just dust and grossness. I was like, oh, fuck off. Stern Playboy. Yeah, we played which one? Isn't there a couple of them?
    80:09
    But I love the Playboy. There's a Valley Playboy and there's a Stern Playboy. So we played Stern Playboy as well. That's a good game. Yeah, Stern's fun. I don't know, Shocker. You fucking with me? What's IJTPA? I don't know what that is. Indiana Jones, The Pinball Adventure. Yes. yes mike williams i am that would be my what i would consider a grail because i would love one but i know for a fact i'll never afford one if that makes any sense i will never be able to purchase one creature still available right creature i can still figure it out and it's still somewhat affordable but indian jump pinball adventure yeah that's another one if you really want a nice one like you're you're getting close to you know eight nine thousand dollars i mean they're i would consider a grail on that one even if it's beat to living shit and i can get a good deal that would be still a grail like because i would love to fix one up too i would i would just go but you can't find them they're just they're just it's too good of a fucking game but it's an awesome game like i want two fast breaks fast breaks really all right billy why jay now you're just being greedy no i know you hook them up we have a arcade around here that actually has two fast bricks and drew and i play all the time and it's uh yeah it's it's he beats me every time that fucker uh funhouse is great too yeah funhouse is cool second that it was my gateway pin yeah dude jesse j totally tim lee would love a bonsai run as well that was my favorite as a kid see they don't show up very often chat sorry i got a new guy in chat creature doesn't disappoint Thanks, Jasper.
    81:48
    Actually, love the Sopranos. We played that too, Drew, didn't we? Yeah. What bar was that? It's a fun game. It didn't call to me, even though I liked the show and the pin was okay. But, I mean, it's fine. He quit Taxi. Taxi's still fucking great, dude. Taxi's so good. Yeah. I want a Taxi as well. Well, then we are all pretty much in agreement that Taxi is one of the best values out there, period. everyone loves the game and it's not stupid expensive hey billy yj how do you like your taxi just let me know uh let's see what else we got here i'm trying to get caught up here let me some dread yeah dread's getting some love steven silver i'd kill for a safe cracker if only i could find another way to have coins flung at my navel silver is like just us he's our guy i love Steven. 100%. Dude, yeah, there was a Safecracker at Expo and it was too busy. I couldn't play it. But man, I feel like I missed out not playing it. You know what I'm saying? Safecracker is one of those games that... Bonsai Run was there too and I didn't play either one of them and I probably should have put some time on it.
    82:59
    So those are two games that I have on my list that I really, really want to play. Drew needs a pin with zipper flippers. Yeah.
    83:09
    Drew needs a zipper first. He needs to wear pants. I'm just catching up on Chad here, guys. $1,600 price tag help. Oh, yeah. Love it. Oh, he's talking about taxi. Billy YJ. Yeah. Love it. Good. Price tag helped. $1,600. So, Billy YJ, whenever you get sick of it, let me know. I'll buy it off you, buddy. You already have it sold. Just consider it sold. Yeah. We'll ship it.
    83:39
    Just give me a good deal. Man, this vodka is very powerful stuff. I could do this all night, you guys. I could do this all night. People listening to this driving to work are like, what is going on right now? Nothing. The answer is nothing. Nothing crazy.
    83:54
    Ian's getting fucked up because Ian had a hard day at work, and he's just going to get crazy. And he's drinking so much fucking Red Bull. I'm not going to sleep tonight, so tomorrow's going to be even worse.
    84:06
    That's okay. See what I'm doing here? Just pour a little bit. Pour a little bit. Pour, pour, pour. Fuck it. It's low sugar. I'm good. All right. I might just go right on after this stream and go on to start playing some pinball effects. Drew, you're going to love this. So I got my USB camera hooked up. So, guys, so when we moved into my house, I have this, you know, what the original owner, she was elderly. so she had to move her bedroom from our second floor to the first floor just so it's easy for her to get around and uh so they have this nice addition to our house and it's a nice it was a nice bedroom well we didn't really have a need for a bedroom on the first floor so we kept that as like a computer room slash just junk room we it was just full of shit exercise equipment well we had our daughter and we turned that room into her playroom but my computer's still there so i put up my this this my webcam all you see is like pretty princess castle and dolls and barbies so it's like the perfect gamer stream channel now because i got the background i got the ambience so i think i might stream some stream some pinball effects you know what i've been playing a lot drew is uh circus voltaire oh yeah how's that been treating Yeah.
    85:31
    Good, man. The Ringmaster looks stupid as shit, but the game itself is awesome. I'll never understand. Funhouse, I think those guys look stupid as shit.
    85:43
    What's the construction one? They look stupid as shit. Oh, Roadshow. They look stupid as shit, and Ringmaster looks stupid as shit. I don't know. There's an era where everybody looks stupid as shit to me, but Circus Voltaire is a fucking crazy good game. I really like it. There's a lot going on in that game.
    86:02
    Yeah, yeah, there really is. Jesse J says, Ian, I just realized you're wearing your own shirt. Very cock rock of you.
    86:13
    Big Iron Maiden energy. You know, Jesse J, here's the reason. I sell this stuff. So I want you guys to see, like, wow, I could look good just like Ian, and I will wear this shirt. Which reminds me, go to silverballswag.com and click on the Poor Man Spinball podcast on the promoters page, and you too can look like me.
    86:37
    Tim Lee, you have the best review ever. I'm not sure this show ever makes sense. It never does. This one's even worse than normal. All right, let's call it. Drew, do you want to call it? Drew, I feel like you're fading, Drew. You want to call it? Yeah, we're going to have to call it. I got a long day I got tomorrow.
    86:59
    All right, well, thank you, everybody, in chat. We had a lot of fun just shooting the shit with you guys. This is a weird episode. Anyone driving is probably thinking this is the worst episode ever. And you know what? I will agree with you. This could be worse than episode 66. We don't know. But thank you, everybody, for listening. Please follow us on Facebook so you can get in on this live chat and this live stream. It's super fun. We love doing it. And next week we're going to have a giveaway, so please show up next week. And also we have the Penn Stadium giveaway. So email us at thepoormanspinball at gmail.com. Buy our shit over at Silver Ball Swag. But, yeah. And also we're going to do more and more shit on fucking YouTube. So Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, follow us there.
    87:50
    Kyle, thank you so much. You sent 50 stars. Thank you, Kyle. and also listen to jesse j's pinball adventure saps pinball um two of our favorite favorite people that show up on chat every week we really appreciate you guys thank you uh steven silver thank you so much again he does all of our animations on our show and steven silver also is the lead animator for heist so please please please please if you get a chance to check out Multimorphic, the heist game looks phenomenal I'll play the heist trailer right here in a little bit when we wrap up but it's one of the top killer apps we've been looking for on Multimorphic, definitely so thank you very very much guys I appreciate all the love and all the stars and we will talk to you next week see you guys later
    88:50
    Ocean City. This used to be a nice place. But then Mr. Big came to town. Now the whole city answers to one person.
    89:04
    The big man at the top. Even the cops are made up. Now they're just as enforcers in uniform. Well, my crew and I know a good mark in UC World. And he's the biggest fish in Ocean City. Yeah, this job's gonna be fun.
    89:48
    Thank you.