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Silverball Chronicles Ep 36: The Token Roger Sharpe Episode

The Pinball Network·video·1h 8m·analyzed·Feb 22, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Silver Ball Chronicles covers Roger Sharpe's multifaceted pinball legacy beyond the famous 1976 NYC legalization case.

Summary

Silver Ball Chronicles Episode 36 presents a comprehensive historical overview of Roger Sharpe's contributions to pinball, far beyond his famous 1976 courtroom demonstration that legalized pinball in New York. The episode covers Sharpe's early life, his 1975 book 'Pinball!', his involvement in game design (Stingray), his role in founding tournament pinball through PAPA with Steve Epstein, and his work legalizing pinball in multiple states. Hosts David Dennis and Ron Hallett emphasize that while Sharpe's courtroom moment is legendary, his broader impact on journalism, competitive play, and industry legitimacy deserves equal recognition.

Key Claims

  • Roger Sharpe wrote and published 'Pinball!' in 1975, the first major book on pinball history, which now sells for high prices on eBay despite limited original sales

    high confidence · David Dennis discusses the book's publication, original sales performance, and current collector value; Sharpe quotes in episode about publication process

  • Sharpe's book was heavily cut from his original manuscript, with many pictures and content removed due to production costs (color printing, paper stock)

    high confidence · David Dennis and Sharpe quote discussing financial constraints and what didn't make the final publication

  • Roger Sharpe worked on the design of Stingray (1977) alongside Sam Stern and Mike Kubin, specifically providing input on the right side of the playfield

    medium confidence · David Dennis references IPDB data and notes Sharpe was in the factory and gave advice on redesign; describes right side weakness

  • Sharpe was involved in legalizing pinball in Chicago, Ohio, Virginia, and California—not just New York City—around 1976

    high confidence · David Dennis explicitly states Sharpe worked on multiple state cases; Sharpe's TopCast episode confirms he downplays single-case narrative

  • The 1976 NYC courtroom hearing was decided when Sharpe successfully demonstrated a bank shot on a second game (Bank Shot) after a committee member challenged the first game (El Dorado)

    high confidence · David Dennis provides detailed narrative of the hearing: Sharpe hit a lit lane, proved skill-based play, received immediate approval

  • Roger Sharpe and Steve Epstein co-founded PAPA (Professional and Amateur Pinball Association) to create competitive leagues modeled on bowling leagues

    high confidence · David Dennis explains motivation (repeat business, community building) and notes PAPA development in late 1970s

  • The 1978 Super Shooter tournament series (Aladdin's Castle) featured over 60,000 entrants nationally with 20 finalists, prize included a car, and was covered by ABC, CBS, NBC major networks

    medium confidence · David Dennis cites TopCast episode as source; notes network coverage but acknowledges unclear on specific prize details

Notable Quotes

  • “When I moved to New York City after I left school, New York City did not have pinball machines. Being in the situation that I was at with Gentleman's Quarterly, I thought this would be a nice way to try to meet people in the industry, and maybe I could buy a machine.”

    Roger Sharpe @ ~20:00 — Reveals Sharpe's original, transactional motivation for writing the GQ article that launched his pinball journalism career—he simply wanted a machine and industry contacts

  • “It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I had done or at least worked on the pinball book. I've gotten somewhat familiar with many of the people in the industry. I had done an article at GQ and also done a piece in the New York Times. From that, the New York State Association reached out and contacted me.”

    Roger Sharpe @ ~50:00 — Sharpe contextualizes his courtroom role as opportunity-driven rather than destiny, emphasizing his prior journalism work made him attractive as a consultant

  • “I don't think that it was something where pinball was going to either live or die. The business back in the mid-70s was going along nicely and didn't really need New York City.”

    Roger Sharpe @ ~52:00 — Directly contradicts the heroic narrative that Sharpe 'saved pinball' via the courtroom case—he explicitly states the industry was thriving without NYC legalization

  • “Steve gets more of the highs, but not on a more consistent basis. I'm the better, more consistent player.”

    Roger Sharpe @ ~1:15:00 — Shows Sharpe's competitive pride when discussing his skill versus Steve Epstein; reflects the dynamic of two legendary figures shaping competitive pinball

  • “We've sold out over on Patreon at patreon.com/silver ball chronicles. You can get early ad-free access... jump onto the $6 a month tier.”

    David Dennis @ ~8:00 — Describes Patreon structure and perks (stickers, t-shirts, Canadian potato chips at Pentastic)

  • “Everyone loves the story. The story is, he was supposed to play El Dorado. And one of the people on the committee was kind of a hard ass and was like, no, no, no, no, this is rigged. Play the other one.”

    David Dennis — Recounts the dramatic courtroom moment that defined Sharpe's legend—the skeptical committee member forcing a second game demonstration

Entities

Roger SharpepersonDavid DennispersonRon HallettpersonSteve EpsteinpersonSam SternpersonAlvin GottliebpersonHarry Williamsperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Roger Sharpe maintains high accessibility within pinball community despite legendary status—he attends tournaments (Pintastic, Pinball Expo) and has casual conversations with enthusiasts about coffee and general topics, defying typical celebrity isolation pattern.

    high · David Dennis contrasts Sharpe's accessibility with typical autobiographical film subjects; Ron notes Sharpe hangs out and tells stories at floor-level community events

  • ?

    event_signal: Super Shooter (1978) was a landmark national tournament series with 60,000+ entrants across Aladdin's Castle locations, 20 finalists, car prize, and major network TV coverage (ABC, CBS, NBC). Establishes birth of modern competitive pinball spectacle.

    high · David Dennis cites TopCast episode with Sharpe discussing live news coverage; describes national scale and prize tier

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinball community has created an enduring, somewhat mythologized narrative around Roger Sharpe's 1976 courtroom legalization case. Episode hosts acknowledge this narrative while working to contextualize and correct it via deeper historical research.

    high · Dennis joke about 'propaganda'; repeated phrases like 'that thing that happened in the 70s in a courtroom'; acknowledgment that 'everyone knows the story'; TopCast episode cited as Sharpe correcting record himself

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Roger Sharpe vs. Steve Epstein competitive dynamic: Sharpe claims himself as 'better, more consistent player' while Epstein 'gets more of the highs'; both were legends in tournament pinball founding PAPA together despite this competitive tension.

    medium · Sharpe direct quote comparing playing styles; context of PAPA co-founding suggests partnership despite competition

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.204

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Silver Ball Chronicles. My tea is almost ready. Oh, your tea is almost ready. Almost. Testing my compressor here. yeah it works thank you that felt really great in my ear need like a limiter or something for the first part so i'm still getting a spike but whatever
0:53
Hello everyone, I'm David Dennis and this is Silver Ball Chronicles. With me this month is Ron, not going on a cruise, Hallett. How you doing, fella? I'm doing great. No, I've never been on a cruise. Did you know that Bruce Nightingale, who is the co-host of the Slam Tilt podcast? My other podcast, yes. Your other podcast. Did you know that he is now a consultant for cruise ship vacations?
1:32
He is? Cool. I just thought I would plug that at the beginning there because people are very tired of me just plugging my financial services business. And Bruce beats me severely when we don't plug the other podcast. yeah it's it's it's all about making sure that you are kept in a safe safe and stimulating environment just safe it's fine this is a safe zone this is a ron safe zone on this podcast so what's up fella what have you been doing we're in we're in like the end of january now are you sure you want to say where we are you might have to cut it out later wow we're somewhere at the beginning of 2024 yes we are as you can see last month everybody i totally blew the introduction to our part two of the capcom debacle illinois pin space ball inc episode i try to warn them folks i try to tell them to not mention current events because it just makes it really hard there you go what have you been doing you've been busy uh just working you were to california eh uh oh yeah that was since was that since the last episode wow that was a long time ago that's what i mean right like it's been a while yeah i was in california very cool did you go to what's the one that's out there in and out uh oh i thought you meant the tournament in disc but no no no no i gotta find out about your burger habits uh no i didn't i don't remember i have reflux i can't eat all any of that crap oh terrible i was eating uh delicious and nutritious sandwiches and such and fruits and water and stuff like that speaking of eating huh jaws has been released uh yes it has and it doesn't eat the ball are you very very sad about shark no eat ball i don't care look at you look at you obviously the minority i haven't seen that many pitchforks outside of the factory at stern since they released ghostbusters well when it's their top seller for the whole year it really won't matter i'm sure stern doesn't care either uh i've added the show notes to silverballchronicles.com so if you're looking for the show notes or they're not on the the facebook post or the pod bean post or however you found us you can swing over to silverballchronicles.com to check it out there and of course we always let everybody know that we have sold out over on patreon at patreon.com slash silver ball chronicles you know when you say that we've sold out i keep thinking like we've sold out like like no one can get any more patreon for us we've sold it all out we've sold it all out the marquee says sold out Yeah, like you couldn't join if you wanted to. It would say sold out. You can get early ad-free access. You don't have to listen to my Patreon commercial. You don't have to listen to my financial commercial. You don't have to listen to Bruce Nightingale's cruise ship consultant firm stuff anymore. None of that. All you have to do is jump onto the $6 a month tier. That is our middle Patreon tier. You also get a sticker after three months sent out. but like the one you want to jump on is the elitist cronies those are the top tier perk individuals we've got a few of them and after three months they get a silver ball chronicles t-shirt as well if you are an elitist crony and i see you at pentastic i will bring you a bag of Canadian potato chips. You're going to Pentastic this year.

  • Roger Sharpe's wife Ellen is named in relation to their 1978 wedding reception at Broadway Arcade; a documentary film based on Sharpe and Ellen's relationship exists

    high confidence · David Dennis mentions Ellen in wedding context and references documentary film about their relationship

    • @ ~48:00

  • “He just played it for a while. Like, I'm going to shoot this. I'm going to hit this. And at some point... he just did the like, see this lane up here. This lane is lit. I'm going to plunge this lane.”

    David Dennis @ ~49:00 — Details the specific moment of Sharpe's skill demonstration—calling the shot before executing it to prove intentional control

    • Gary Stern
    person
    Mike Kubinperson
    Bill Gershperson
    Ellen Sharpeperson
    Bess Meyersonperson
    Irving Holtzmanperson
    Ben Schwakowskiperson
    Gentleman's Quarterly (GQ)company
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Broadway Arcadecompany
    Silver Ball Chroniclesorganization
    PAPA (Professional and Amateur Pinball Association)organization
    Pinball!product
    Stingraygame
    El Doradogame
    Bank Shotgame
    Super Shooterevent
    ?

    design_philosophy: Roger Sharpe's involvement in Stingray (1977) design was consultative/advisory rather than primary—he provided input on right side playfield during factory visit with Sam Stern; IPDB records show Stern/Kubin/Sharpe design credit but Sharpe's role was limited.

    medium · David Dennis notes Sharpe was 'in the factory that day' and 'Sam Stern asked him for advice'; right side weakness admitted; game code quality criticized separately

  • $

    market_signal: Silver Ball Chronicles episode explicitly challenges the oversimplified 'Sharpe saved pinball in one courtroom moment' narrative. Hosts emphasize Sharpe's broader contributions: GQ/NYT journalism, book authorship, game design consultation, PAPA co-founding, and multi-state legalization work.

    high · Dennis intro: 'We've fought long and hard to avoid giving Roger Sharp yet another ego-building podcast... but that's only a tiny part'; Sharpe quote from TopCast: 'pinball was going along pretty good without him'; Dennis: 'after this did pinball boom again? Well, you didn't give the story.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Roger Sharpe retains full rights to 'Pinball!' book but has not pursued reprinting due to financial/production barriers. Publisher showed no interest in reprints despite current collector market demand and high secondary prices.

    high · Sharpe quote: 'I think that's the publisher... I have all the rights to everything and I kind of toyed around with it but it was never the right opportunity'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Epstein, owner of Broadway Arcade for 35 years, was a key collaborator and lifelong friend of Roger Sharpe. Together they co-founded PAPA and pioneered competitive pinball league models. Epstein's arcade became celebrity/industry hub attracting Lou Reed and other cultural figures.

    high · David Dennis describes Epstein as PAPA co-founder; wedding reception venue; Lou Reed anecdote (though Dennis admits last part was invented as joke); 35-year tenure confirmed

  • ?

    product_strategy: Roger Sharpe's 'Pinball!' book (1975) was cut significantly from original manuscript due to production costs; many photographs and content removed; reprinting feasible but financial barriers prevent new editions despite collector demand and high secondary market prices.

    high · Direct quote from Sharpe: 'I have all the rights to everything... financial consideration... amount of color, kind of paper stock'; Dennis confirms color/production costs prohibitive

    • 5:05
    Yeah, I kind of have to. I mean, it's the biggest show. It's like your home show. Yeah, it's the biggest show that's drivable. Are you excited to see me again? Sure. You were there last year? Yeah. What do you mean? No.
    5:21
    If you just want to say thanks to the show with no big commitment, you can go over to silverballswag.com, pick up a t-shirt. We've got some great designs on our hoodies, mugs, and you can just buy a sticker there if you just want a sticker that way. But, hey, you know what, Ron? What, David? We sold a T-shirt to Tasmania, Australia. Wow.
    5:44
    Maybe the Tasmanian devil himself bought one. That is – I bet you they are not tired of that joke. But I do know that it was sent to literally the other side of the world. How cool is that? And the only reason, besides, of course, the stereotypical reason of knowing where Tasmania is, is that my boots, my Blundstone winter boots, are from Tasmania, Australia. Shout out to Blundstones, not a sponsor of the show. Any corrections, comments from the previous episode?
    6:18
    I don't know. Did we? so i just want to say thanks so much for dan you for sending us an email over at silverball chronicles at gmail.com and he just dropped us a line let us know that he really enjoyed the latest capcom episode but how about this from glenn glenn let us know that he started his own youtube channel called tilt trek in which he does deep dives into specific games and he has won on big bang bar so go ahead and check that out swing on over to glenn's tilt track and that's it we had no actual corrections just that good or no one's listening one or the other oh oh today's topic yeah i saw this like uh we're gonna do one on this one too it is pinball history but i mean everyone in their their mother's done this one roger sharp is hailed as the man who saved the game and is always a guest and topic for podcasters. We've fought long and hard to avoid giving Roger Sharp yet another ego-building podcast to spin his narrative propaganda, but here we are. Wow, poor Roger. Roger is one of the most important figures in pinball, one who rivals the industry giants and no it's not just because he did something in a courtroom once yes roger did that thing in the mid-1970s where he helped legalize pinball in new york city but that's only a tiny part of roger's stunning contribution to the hobby we all love and enjoy hey ron did you know that roger saved pinball in a courtroom in the 1970s well we're going to talk about that because that's a very important historical thing. Roger wrote about pinball. Roger played pinball. Roger promoted and evangelized pinball for many years before and after that thing that once happened that everybody talks about. Roger has been involved in the birth of tournament pinball, the second rise of licensing in the 1990s, and mainstream journalism outside of pinball. He also had a great film based on him and his relationship with his wife, Ellen, which also talked about a thing that happened in the 70s in a courtroom. Which we are going to talk about, right? For the people who have never heard about that thing that happen in the 70s in the courtroom this is episode 36 the token roger sharp episode what do you know about roger sharp seemingly everything at this point because i've heard every story so the funny thing about roger is his accessibility roger is like legitimately just a guy that hangs out at tournaments and plays in tournaments and you can just have conversations with him most people who have had a autobiographical movie about them who have been the subject of all of these podcasts and the like it's funny that you can just hang out with roger sharp at pintastic or pinball expo and talk about coffee and things like that it's very weird is it not uh i've never really talked to him what not about coffee and stuff now you've never like talked to him there was one time i've heard this story that one time at pintastic a bunch of people just hung out sitting on the floor and he sat in a chair and told stories yeah that sounds right like that is pretty pretty funny pinball's weird because it's small enough that you still have this accessibility but it's large enough to still have its uh stars i really enjoy that about pinball should we talk about roger's early life sure let's did you know that roger grew up in chicago went to the university of wisconsin in 1971. He graduated with a degree in marketing, where he ended up in New York City pursuing a career as a journalist. University of Wisconsin. Everybody knows the University of Wisconsin because it's, I don't know. It's in Wisconsin. And he graduated with a marketing degree, which is pretty cool. Marketing is a pretty flexible thing. You can fall into sales, you can fall into writing, you can fall into journalism, as it would see with Roger. It's a very versatile sort of arts degree, as opposed to like engineering, where you're like right into one space and that's kind of it. Now, Roger would often play pinball in university at one of the local pubs. Journalism was really where Roger wanted to go after university. Roger was able to find a job at Gentleman's Quarterly, now known as GQ. GQ is an American international monthly magazine based in New York City and was founded in 1931 as Apparel Arts. It became Gentleman's Quarterly in 1957 and GQ in the late 60s. Are you a subscriber to GQ, Ron? That's not really my thing. It focuses on fashion, style, and culture for men. through articles on food, movies, fitness, sex, music, travel, celebrities, sports, technology, and books are also featured. Yeah, it's like one of these ones where it's like, what books is George Clooney reading? And there's like on the front cover is George Clooney with like his Omega watch, and he's like reading a book. They had me until the fashion and fitness part. Yeah, you were all happy. Yeah, I was all in, and then, yeah, no, I'm not very. they're like which cargo shorts are in this season what graphic tees should you wear to a wedding that actually no it's it's mostly like hugo boss stuff so roger searching for an article on you know to get him published in gq wrote an article on pinball which was his passion from university roger says when i moved to new york city after i left school new york city did not have pinball machines. Being in the situation that I was at with Gentleman's Quarterly, I thought, this would be a nice way to try to meet people in the industry, and maybe I could buy a machine. That was really the sole motivation. He needed an article. He likes pinball. And he was like, man, there's no pinball in New York. Maybe if I write an article, I can have a machine in my house. I can find out who actually makes these machines. That's actually pretty funny. It's pretty transactional. Also, you have to call it New York City. Isn't that right, Ron? Yep. because if you call it new york as most people do yes as basically everyone that is not in upstate new york will just call it new york exactly and that and that's a thing for you people in upstate new york is that right yeah we all hate new york city too why it's like the greatest city on earth yeah okay so this spun off into pinball as in a book title yeah that's right it's all capitals with an exclamation point. So you have to say it like that. So Roger would go to libraries to do research for this article, but there was no information on pinball. There was no internet back then. You'd have to go to the library. You'd have to look through those index cards. You'd have to use the Dewey Decimal System. Do you remember that, Ron? They still use it, so yes. But now you just can't look it up on a computer. You got to look through the cards. So pinball was still a very tight community the information did not flow out of pinball easily because it was still a rather new industry back in the 1960s roger says alvin gottlieb being one and others had some doubts and apprehensions as to whether or not i could really do a book or get a book off the ground because you know there have been a number of people that have been talking about it and it was politically charged roger had credibility okay he had been printed before in legitimate publications he wasn't just like you and i who were like hobbyists talking into microphones and throwing it up on the internet he was like legitimately published so he had an in with publishing companies book companies he he had contacts so getting a book off the ground was probably something a lot easier for him than it would be for you and i just to try to make a book and politically charged means it's illegal in a lot of spots and it seems as it's contributing to the you know poor youth of the america and all that stuff so if you're in the pinball industry you're probably thinking okay what does this guy want to talk to us about i mean is this going to be like a hit piece he set us up and how it's ruining the youth of america and stuff yeah you know here's somebody who wanted to learn about the pinball business and he eventually went to go meet people like the Harry Williams of Williams Pinball, Bill Gersh, Alvin Gottlieb, Sam Ginsberg, and Sam Stern, the father of Gary Stern. He met the legends, you know what I mean? These are the people that started pinball as it is today. We're not talking about Jersey Jack, who is a big contributor to pinball today but like he's not the ultimate beginner of that maybe he will be in 30 or 40 years right when we look back at jersey jack but these are like mount rushmore style kind of people that's right pinball the book uh did not sell gangbusters it did not uh light the publisher on fire and rogers roger did not become a new york times bestseller but try to buy it now but but today it sells for a fortune on ebay um i would love a copy of pinball uh i think it would be a good read and it's also just really cool to have which i think is the reason why um i've also heard that there are not just a lot of copies floating around if you've got one congratulations uh and if you have one i would i would love to hear from you Silver ball chronic silver ball articles at gmail. It's so popular now. Why hasn't it been reprinted?
    16:43
    Okay, so this is the question right is why can't they just reprint it? Well, let's ask Roger Roger. Why Roger says I think that's the publisher. They had a nice run with it They enjoyed it but they never felt the need to go back and reprint I have all the rights to everything and I kind of toyed around with it but it was never the right opportunity to do it There was a financial consideration just because of the nature of the book the amount of color, the kind of paper stock, and so on.
    17:12
    Yeah, it's not cheap to make a book, let alone like a legitimate actual book. And that book was actually cut down. He had way more pictures and stuff that were going to go in there that ended up getting cut.
    17:23
    A lot of it comes down to finances, right? Like if he's going to if it's going to cost him three hundred thousand dollars to print a book, you know, he better make sure that he makes three hundred thousand dollars off of this book. Right. Like I don't even I'm just throwing that number out. I have no idea what it costs to make a book, but I have a few clients that publish books. In fact, I'm writing a book at the moment. Whatever it is, I'm sure it costs less in Canada. It well done. But Roger, while he was doing a lot of this research and after the book, he kept up the contacts with individuals like Sam Stern. And he would, from time to time, travel to Chicago and hang out with the Buds.
    18:08
    So, one day while he was at Stern, he bumped into Sam Stern while he was working on a game called Stingray. Stingray is the water sports. No, not that kind of water sports. Oh, you're actually going to say that. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's from December of 1977. It sells 3,006 units, the amount of units that pinball manufacturers would kill to have today. Yeah, that would be good. This is designed by Roger Sharp, Sam Stern, and Mike Kubin. Mike Kubin. You don't remember Mike Kubin? The great Stern designer who made great games like Sea Witch? later became beatles oh good stuff good stuff but roger designed this game stingray well not really but ipdb which is the source that we use for a lot of our images a lot of our statistical you know information comes from ipdb.org so please check them out internet pinball database yes thank you thank you they report that roger sharp and sam stern designed the game and Mike Kubin designed the white wood. Well, he built up the white wood. Right, so it kind of like you put, you screw the things literally into the wood and he's the one that kind of tweaks the shot. So what I've also heard is that Roger happened to be in the factory that day and Sam Stern asked him for some advice.
    19:39
    They would eventually redesign the right side of the game based on Roger's input. and i seem to recall the right side of the game is the weaker side of sea witch isn't that right it's not sea witch uh uh stingray i'm pretty sure it is let me take a picture let's let's look at some pictures here we love looking at some pictures it's got that kind of weird uh spot that kind of goes up to fine the software is the issue of stingray more than the playfield trust me on that what's what's wrong with the software and stingray it's it's not good it's another one of those it's got like 55,000 it's got random crap that happens and you just end up winning when you shouldn't win but you know what people love when we go into the flyers yes and this is an early stern game right this is just after they had purchased uh was it west not western chicago coin probably a couple years this is like one of their not first but one of their first solid-state games. So you'll see things like digital display for scoring. This is a big deal now. Spinning target, drop target bank, dive into action. Stingray by Stern. Built-in test program, complete accounting program, improved ball action with an innovative play field. Proven solid-state microprocessor system. High score-to-date display and new sound. By proven solid-state microprocessor system, we mean the one we stole from Bally.
    21:11
    And it's proven. It's proven to work. And they did have a slightly different soundboard, so I guess that's the new sound. It's kind of cool. It's like a neat little game.
    21:24
    It's like you're underwater scuba diving. It's got a spinner on the left side. It doesn't have sound. It's got chimes. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't know why it says new sound. maybe it's our new chime box unit i don't i don't that doesn't make sense i think it's got the five is it five chimes it's got four four bar chime units stern uses and it's the same one that like pinball uses that was before it so i have no idea what made him put that on the flyer maybe he was supposed to have electronic sound originally and then it went back to that's interesting actually well i mean when it comes down to it this is the game that followed um stars yep which was the other two-player game and i mean man oh man um stars the official game of slam tilt actually i think stars stars followed stingray but yeah oh yeah okay but they're right yeah and they have the bizarre uh like player one is the lowest score but like it goes up it's very confusing i'd love to ask someone at stern why they did that no one else did that wow okay well could you read this line ron irving holtzman and ben oh you're giving me this name schwakowski okay irving holtzman and ben schwakowski were two principals of the new york state association representing the coin op industry they did government lobbying for tax situation court cases about people upset over coin op in their neighborhood ah so this is where this thing in the 1970s that happened with roger sharp in a courtroom starts to kind of bubble up there's a lobbying association right like the chamber of commerce for like the coin op industry basically in new york state well interesting irving and ben did not work for pinball companies they weren't employees of pinball companies they were working for this association. And they represented all kinds of coin-op. This would be, you know, jukeboxes, you know, gambling machines, pinball machines, video, all of it, not just pinball. So in 1972, they mounted a campaign with Bess Meyerson, who is the Commissioner of Consumer Affairs in New York City. She was a proponent of ending the restrictions and getting pinball off the black market, legalizing the operation of pinball machines in New York City. Now, that's the thing, right, when it comes to flat bans on things, is that it doesn't get rid of the problem, right? Look at prohibition. You know, alcohol did not disappear. You know, the making marijuana illegal, it doesn't make it disappear. It just pushes it to the black market. And she wanted to get it off that black market in New York City. And the way to do that is to legalize it and regulate it. We can also mention that pinball was legal in most places. It was even legal in upstate New York. But it was not legal in New York City. I don't think it was what Chicago wasn't legal. Basically, a lot of big cities. It was not legal. Yeah, because it was the part of the seedy underbelly. Degenerates. Only degenerates do that. Yeah, well, we talked about how, for some reason, in all the biographies of our pinball designing episodes of pinball designers, their experience with pinball was when they were on vacation at some random out-of-state or out-of-city vacation location. They didn't stumble upon it at the local strip mall. Or in Roger's case, Wisconsin. In the hearing room. There's this whole thing. Everybody knows the story in the hearing room. Wait a minute. How about in case they don't know the story all right give me that give me the give me the cole's notes here my friend the cole's notes you don't have the cole's notes in the states basically roger came in as a consultant to demonstrate that pinball is indeed a skill-based game and not a gambling device what's the difference between skill-based and chance-based just what it says you need skill to actually do well at it it's not just completely random yeah you have to look at things and aim things and make a decision, you can control the situation. Where in a random or a chance is it sort of like every one in X amount of time something will happen. So he's been asked to come into a hearing room in New York City to display that you can actually play pinball as a game of skill. Because Roger's a pretty good player. He's been playing for quite a few years and he has his own machine at home. Now, this was not him coming in to argue with the team. He literally just came in with his satchel and his mustache to play a game of Eldorado. Roger says, it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I had done or at least worked on the pinball book. I've gotten somewhat familiar with many of the people in the industry. I had done an article at GQ and also done a piece in the New York Times. From that, the New York State Association reached out and contacted me to see if I would be involved or would like to get involved to help them legalize pinball and throw out the restrictions that had been in place at that point for 35 years. I don't think that it was something where pinball was going to either live or die. The business back in the mid-70s was going along nicely and didn't really need New York City. But I think that effectively they were on this quest to try to open it up for local operators, local distribution, and it would obviously benefit everybody. And I just want to say in that quote, he didn't say New York City. He said New York. So even Roger, as far as he's concerned, that's the only New York. So, like, here's the thing, OK, that the narrative and it's not a narrative that Roger Sharp has has promoted, even though I joked in my intro about his propaganda. the little known fact was that Roger was involved in Chicago, Ohio, Virginia, and California cases as well, after this, to also legalize pinball. And that was in about 1976, so slightly after this. Now, pinball was already in a boom in the 1970s. Roger talks about that. so he's not like it's not like without roger in a courtroom in the 1970s doing a thing that pinball would not exist today even though that that is sort of the narrative in which pinball has has has promoted not roger roger's very clear about that in his top cast episode the pinball was going along pretty good without him it just he just happened to be there and he just happened to do this thing with his mustache and a satchel but after this did pinball boom again? Did the legalization and opening up of a massive market benefit sales? Well, you didn't give the story.
    28:12
    Everyone loves the story. The story is, he was supposed to play El Dorado. And one of the people on the committee was kind of a hard ass and was like, no, no, no, no, this is rigged. Play the other one. The bank shot, which was the backup game. It's like, okay, so they brought that over. And he just played it for a while. Like, I'm going to shoot this. I'm going to hit this. I'm going to hit this. And at some point in the demonstration, He just did the like, see this lane up here. This lane is lit. I'm going to plunge this lane. So he plunged the lane, at which point one of the committee members like, OK, that's it. Stop. Don't need to see anymore. And that was it.
    28:50
    That was it. They were like, OK, yeah, it is a game of skill. And then they just get their big rubber stamp out. I don't know. It's a big stamp. They go clank. And they're like, there you go. So, I mean, like, yes, he did help in the legalization of pinball. but it's not the only reason for it. It wasn't the, you know, he's not like, without him, it's not like their industry does not exist. But, I mean, credit where credit's due, Roger is a huge, huge legend in the industry. And without him and this story, there would be a different pinball industry. But, I mean, come on. He did a thing in a courtroom in the 1970s. And it was great.
    29:28
    It was pretty awesome. We'll get into the other stuff later about that. this also brings us into the next boom period so as it became legalized in places like new york city and chicago and you know those big big big cities in the united states pinball goes through a massive expansion with solid state pinball right this is when we're getting into games like eight ball we're getting into games like bally's playboy things are going to take off on a rocket ship. Around this time, Roger would meet a person who would become a lifelong friend, Steve Epstein. Who was Steve Epstein, Ron? He was the owner-operator of the famous Broadway Arcade in New York City for 35 years. Broadway Arcade had a reputation for getting all or most of the new pinball games, and as soon as they were released, they would show up at the Broadway arcade driving a lot of individuals to come and play. He also had really hard to find games later on in that 35 year tenure, such as Big Bang Bar. In fact, Roger and Ellen had their wedding reception at the Broadway arcade in 1978.
    30:44
    Also, Lou Reed from the Velvet Underground had his wedding reception there. He played his custom game, Walk on the Wild Side. Isn't that cool? Okay, I made that last part up, but yes.
    30:58
    Oh, you had me. I wonder if he would have asked, like, can I have my own? Could there be a Lou Reed pinball machine? He would have been better off, like, can we have a Velvet Underground pinball machine? I think it would be nice if we had a Kiss. A Kiss? Why? He's not a Kiss. I think Gene Simmons did hang out at the Broadway Arcade at least once. Yep, celebrities went there and stuff, yep. It was a big deal. Now, Steve Epstein was more than just the Broadway arcade. Both him and Roger would come together, really toy with the idea of competitive pinball play. Roger and Steve thought about bowling leagues, which were really big in the 1970s, and that would be a good thing to replicate for pinball. They needed to come up with a scoring mechanism, competition, withdraws, to bring in that interest of pinball and create a sense of community. But most importantly, it would build repeat business at the Broadway Arcade and arcades across the country. the idea is if you can get more people involved in leagues you can get more people playing in competition the more they will come back and grow pinball it's sort of like a distributor promoting pinball not necessarily to sell pinball but to grow it and thus sell more pinball i mean as you mentioned steve owned the broadway arcade and more repeat business is a good thing So what was this the beginning of? It was the beginning of the Professional and Amateur Pinball Association, better known as PAPA. I mean, it took plenty of time to work on the scoring, the ranking system, but this was kind of a fun thing for Steve and Roger. They really legitimately enjoyed this. Now we come down to the real question. Who's the better player, Steve or Roger? Well, Roger says, Steve Epstein or myself, I used to say that Steve gets more of the highs, but not on a more consistent basis. I'm the better, more consistent player. Late in the 1970s, 1978, in fact, Super Shooter. We need something like this.
    33:12
    Yeah, Roger. He helped oversee the Super Shooter and its final tournament in Chicago. So over 60,000 people entered the Aladdin's Castle tournament series all over the U.S. with 20 people reaching the finals. I think the prize was a car. So this was in the TopCast episode where Roger spoke about this. He didn't talk too many specifics. Like a car in the 1970s was a big deal, right? Like what's a car? Four grand? That's a big deal. you know the major networks not like you know espn ocho or whatever yeah like it was legitimately a big deal it was on live news roger says it was on live news i mean abc cbs nbc had all the major networks for covering the pinball spectacle It was astounding Ken Ludsford won beating out Joe Burley in a decision that Roger didn quite agree with Well, he didn't like the scoring. Right. Yeah, I guess it's not that he didn't like the decision, but it's just the scoring structure of the event he didn't really like. And this issue was something that influenced Papa and the International Flipper Pinball Association, which we'll speak about later, rankings in the future. Yeah, basically, Ken won. He got 5X on 8-ball. And there were other players that were far more consistent throughout the tournament, but he had, like, the one big game at the right time and won. Yeah. Roger didn't think that was – it wasn't – it didn't – the format didn't really incentivize consistent play. Which is a big thing in current Papa rankings and tournaments, right? Well, it's Papa scoring. It's three-game series with a certain scoring system. And it's looking for consistency. So, yeah, you can't just blow up one game, slaughter everyone, and you win. No. It's – you have to be more consistent. What we're dealing with today when it comes to the IFPA, the International Flipper Pinball Association, and Papa Style Scoring can draw a direct link back to this one huge tournament run by Roger and Steve back in 1978. How cool is that? And one big ball of 8-ball, which is a great game, by the way. I love 8-ball. uh roger of course being very well respected in the pinball industry from the manufacturers and those he's built relationships with and the thing that he did in the courtroom one time you know he didn't he didn't look like everybody else in pinball so his opinions were usually highly regarded amongst those in the industry people like kenny anderson well who's kenny anderson well roger who's kenny anderson roger says i was at a new york state trade show he He said New York State.
    36:10
    So that means it's not New York City this time. He put the state at the end to make you know that it's not New York City. Otherwise, he would have just said New York. Maybe it was in New York City, but it was the New York State trade show. But Roger says, I was at a New York State trade show and encountered Kenny Anderson with Game Plan. I'd known Ken from his days at Chicago Coin. He took me over to look at a cocktail table pinball machine that this company I'd never heard of was doing. Real Cigarettes was the brand on it. And he asked me what I thought. And I was like, oh, my God, you can't do cigarettes. And there's a lot of stigma attached to it. And the next one that they're doing was going to be black velvet based on alcohol. Then I said, those are like two things you can't do.
    36:52
    Cigarettes and alcohol. So it's like, you know, pinball in the late 70s is having this coming out party. It's legalized. It's legalized, it's like mainstream, and you want to make a cigarette in a booze game. Like, no. It's like American pinball coming out and doing hookers and blow. Not really the greatest of themes. So Roger and Lee Galbas, who was the president of Game Plan, along with Ken, went to dinner. AES Technology was a government tech contractor and Lee, with his partner Mike Abrams, saw a new market to enter and they spoke about the rise of video games like Pac-Man and manufacturing pinball and arcades.
    37:44
    Hey Pinheads, when I'm not doing this podcast, I'm Dave the Financial Advice Guy. In a recent survey, we found that 70% of those polled were concerned about their retirement strategy. Canadians have a number of concerns we're looking at over the next 15 years. Professional financial advice is key to helping you through a variety of challenges, ranging from inflation, market volatility, and determining how to maximize your retirement income in the safest, most effective, and tax-efficient way. Today's economy requires an experienced hand and a personalized plan. Don't take my word for it. Just listen to Nordman. I am the Nordman, and I approve of Dennis Financial's investment and insurance advice. Their opinions on vacuum form grants are great, too. If you're looking for a more human dimension to your financial advice, Dennis Financial Inc. has you covered with advisors licensed in most Canadian provinces. Contact me via email at david at dennisfinancial.net for a free rate quote and a copy of our value of advice e-book. Or check out dennisfinancial.ca. Insurance solutions provided by Dennis Financial Inc., Canadian residents only. Roger says, My travels and having been around all of the secret back rooms of design and development and having had the opportunity to play every game up to that point from the previous 20 years meant I had a pretty good sense of the types of games that I enjoy personally. So even then, Roger's getting to play all these games before they even come out. That's so cool. That's got to be like the ultimate sharp perk, I guess you could say. Which is passed down generations. We get to play this stuff before you do.
    39:29
    That's right. Now, Game Plan approached Roger because they needed designers. Just like today, they're looking to tournament pinball because they needed designers. Roger says, Wendell McAdams is there. He came over from Chicago Coin, but they did not have any hardcore designers. I took out a little piece of paper, and I did some circles and squares, and I held it up to Lee and explained what my drawing was. I said that it would be too expensive. He called Wendell, and he comes in, and I gave it to him. And I gave it to him. They asked me, dead looking, and he straightened the face and said, would it be successful? I said, if I knew anything about pinball, yes. Wow.
    40:09
    Confident. Wow, confident in his game. Confident in his game. Just a pen and a piece of paper or a napkin? And what game would that be? That was Sharpshooter, the cowboy and mustaches theme from 1979. sells 4,200 units. So actually, it was a pretty decent seller. For a newer company. Yeah. And anything that's sold that much today would be a hit. Yeah. Roger Sharp on design with Joe Juice Jr. and Ed Sabula.
    40:43
    Mechanics by Joe Juice Jr. Or Joe Joes. I never know how to say his name. Can someone please write us at, what's our email address?
    40:51
    Silverballchronicles at gmail.com. And tell us if it's Jojos or Jojuice or another pronunciation. I've heard it multiple ways. And art by George Mullinton. Roger was flying back and forth from New York City to Chicago while working on this project. Do you remember back in the day, Ron, when you could just commute between two major cities to design a pinball machine? And it was probably way cheaper. My goodness. It must have been really cheap to fly in the pre-9-11 era. and not inconvenient we've spoke about joe before right joe juice joe joe's i'll say joe joe so you can say joe juice one of us will be right but roger says joe joe's was a very instrumental in making everything happen my top right portion of the play field didn't fit now the spinner was overlapping with the kick out hole in the lane and so on joe excuses himself comes back and altered where i'd had the spinner originally and i said well that's great i love it joe and i became very close he was an incredibly talented and gifted person very hard working he's also no longer with us he did some marvelous games joe did do some marvelous games he was big with stern right electronics quicksilver dragon fist then he went to williams and did mostly mostly like engineering stuff he's the one that made the upper play field of black knight 2000 serviceable that's the thing that people don't get right is there's there's the designer but then there's like they if they have a really good relationship with their uh mechanical engineer with their mechanical engineer that's what takes the game to the next level right is that it's it's it's easy it's serviceable it works uh it's fun say what you want about black knight 2000 but that is the easily serviceable upper play field i have ever worked on but this game also has a really cool art package by George Moulton. And he had been doing coin-op art really since the 1930s. And his first machine was a game called Gold Rush by Rockola, which was a flipperless payout game. That's how long he had been around. And we're talking like late 1970s now. Mm-hmm. One of those old-timey pinball games. Could you imagine? He primarily drew for Williams after World War II from 1947 to 1967. He also did a couple of Bally and United art packages, too. So he was roped in to do in Sharpshooter, the cowboy and mustache theme. And he also did another space-themed game from Game Plan called Supernova.
    43:29
    So, like, when we look at this pin, right, over on IPDB, it's kind of got a unique flavor to it, right? It's it's they're trying to do this very world under glass thing. Right. Of like a Western. Yeah. And it's and it's like in a desert. Right. Like that Texas kind of theme. Right. Those old Western movies from the 70s.
    43:55
    So if you made your own game, would you put yourself in the back glass? And would it be like in a hockey outfit?
    44:02
    It would. I'd be missing a tooth. For no apparent reason. But George, he thought it would be great to put Roger in the back glass. So in the middle, Roger is the sharpshooter. And he's the sheriff. He's got the star right on there. He's got to be the sheriff. You could tell it's Roger because of the mustache. Yep. Which really does fit with the Western. And remember, it takes aim with a winner. It's great. Okay, here we go. Game plan. We got to see. I just love the flyers. Let's take a look at this flyer. People love when we say the flyer stuff. Game plan shoots you into profits with a Wild West winner.
    44:42
    I like that. A Wild West winner. Look at the Ws. Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter's unique full action memory holds over. Sharp lanes. They're called sharp. Kick out hole. Multiple value. Roll over. Specials. Extra balls. Lit spinner. And owl hole bonus multiplier. It also has an improved integrated accounting system. sharpshooter brings an industry first for the first time in the electronic age comes a pinball machine with million light for high score to date it was what players want and the operators need to get more punch for their profit picture it's like high score right it's like this is just about getting your initials in we're almost there right so cool it's a weird design is it not it's it's all right it's it's not it's not roger's best game i don't think we're getting to that on this episode so it's got like uh seven drop targets on the left side really close to the to the flippers very dangerous but those if you hit those targets it comes back into where the right sling would be and instead of having kind of that italian bottom left and right slings it has two pop-up on the right side dead die it's a mean game right have you played it have i played what haven't i played yeah that's true i i played locked this monster which was game plan and there's only one of those this is a this is tough this is one of the more popular this is one of the bigger production games game plan ever had so you do see these yeah if you're seeing a game plan game probably this one this one yeah yeah it's it's cool it looks effective uh it looks fun it's got lots going on in the play field but this is kind of in that era where we still haven't quite figured out flow so balls moving around returning to the flipper we're still in a very like catch the ball set your shot shoot the ball control the priest the pre-steve richie era like flow doesn't exist yet we're still in what is it what is it catch and hold or unless you played any old stern games that have tons of flow we just haven't figured it out like some people are like ah wouldn't it be good if we put two pop bumpers where a sling would be and then they do it and they're like that's okay but it's not really that great so then they're like well we'll never do that again so then they move on to something else but they're still experimenting and i'd say they're doing really really well well i like the artwork though because they just put all the employees in it i I mean, like George's style was very realistic and it often had women and showgirls and swimmers, ballroom dancers, sort of like this level of elegance and charm. It wasn't sleazy. You know what I mean? It wasn't like sleazy art. It was respectful and proper for like a 1950s gentleman. You know what I mean? It was really, really nice. Well, about the art, Roger says, I drove George crazy for the artwork because, as I told him, I did not want the Dracula artwork you did for Harry Williams game. that Stern had done. It had a lot of purples and things. I wanted it to be as realistic as it possibly could be. In fact, if I'd had it my way, it would have been black and white because this is my ode or homage to High Noon, which was a movie for those who don't know. And I wanted it to be one piece of artwork. There's just been the showdown. I've shot the guy falling and that's why the plastics on the playfield of horses reared up are all looking back up. That was a daunting challenge for George to try to bring to life. But having said that, that was the process. If you look at that play field, right, you've got... Wait a minute, so he actually shot someone? Yeah, not actually shot someone. He had just, oh yeah, I guess the smoke is coming out of the gun. I never even thought about that. Like, you just shot somebody. So if you're looking at this on the back glass, there's two ladies down like, Oh, Roger, what have you done? And he has shot someone. Well, they're probably like, thank you. You killed the bad guy. Because you're the sheriff. You're not a corrupt sheriff. You're the actual good sheriff. If you then scroll down the playfield, so it's all one picture, you scroll down the playfield, you see the person he shot on the playfield kind of reeling back.
    48:53
    And then there's the other people standing around watching on the plastics and stuff. The idea is it's all kind of one piece of art. It's not a back glass, which is totally separate from the playfield. You're supposed to look at it as one piece, which I think is pretty cool. I never realized that. Of course, I would have done it like the anti-hero. I would have had the bad guy. He's turned around because he actually got shot in the back, and his gun is still in the holster. You're a terrible person. I'm a terrible person. So you had alluded to the Easter eggs in this game. Yes, the lady on the right side of Roger's, Ellen, Roger's wife, and the lady on his left leg. Wait a minute. That would be his right leg. Okay, which side is it? I don't know. Okay, let's try it this way. the lady on one side of rogers ellen his wife and on his other side was the uh then wife of game plan legal boss her name was maryland yes but she was the wife of the game plan legal boss whoever that was uh lee is the gentleman on the right side with the shotgun his daughter is the blonde girl in front of him with their cat mike abrams the vp and partner of game plan is sitting on the stool with his legs up and z's cafe is an ode to steve epstein who had a nickname of zelmo Lots of little fun bits in there. So, you know, people talk about like Zombie Yeti putting in, you know, interesting Easter eggs or Gary Stern floating around in a tube in an air tube in the Jaws game. Like those kind of fun Easter eggs. Chris Franchi, awesome for doing those as well. That's been that's just been a thing that pinball has done for years. the game went over i would say pretty well roger gave game plan three or four other designs to start on game plan wanted to do more of just a mirror image of sharpshooter because it was one of their best sellers or the best seller they said let's just do the same thing but flip it around a little bit because it would keep the cost down well we're going to roll into the 1980s do you remember the 1980s i do i don quite remember the 1980s because you weren alive yet well i was but I wasn really there for very long I remember hair spandex I remember Macho Man I mean, of course. Yeah, that kind of stuff. But that's not much. I don't remember much of the 1980s. Anyway, in the 1980s, Roger served as an editor for Video Games Magazine, spending his time playing pinball and attending various industry events and trade shows. So he's working arm's length from pinball. He hasn't dove into designing. He hasn't dove into marketing within a company. He's not working for Williams or Bally. He's writing for Video Games Magazine, which is very much like a, I don't know, like a PC gamer of its time, maybe. Nintendo Power. I mean, it's not those names, but it's kind of the same thing. Were you a subscriber to Video Games Magazine? I would have been too young, I think. Magazines, I don't know if people get this. magazines were a big thing in like the 70s 80s and 90s big business i got nintendo power i have them somewhere that's super cool but that's like a you know like pro wrestling illustrated or porsche magazine or you know those kind of things oh shout out to my uh secret santa in the pinside secret santa thing by the way he sent me a 75 years of porsche uh book like coffee table book wow that is a way above and beyond sir thank you so much but magazines were a big deal in the late 1980s roger and steve worked with amoa which stood for amusement and music operators association to build a competitive pinball model because with their experience previously with papa they really wanted to draw more coin drop they wanted to build a bigger community for operators. So AMOA reached out to Roger and Steve who had experience. And this would become the International Flipper Pinball Association or IFPA. Ah which is what basically everybody in competitive pinball plays in today. It wasn't until 1991 that Papa held their first world championship which I believe was in New York City. Roger spent some of his time getting to know Mike Stroll who was the president of Williams in the 1980s. You'll know all about Mike Stroll from some of our episodes about kind of... Yeah, I remember him. Yeah, 1980s Williams things. So we're talking about... Flash, Firepower, Black Knight, just name, insert Steve Ritchie, a big hit game of early 80s here. Right. So he's a subject in Steve Ritchie episodes. He's a subject in Barry Ousler, saves pinball you know mike stroll was a big deal in the 1980s because that's when we were going through a pretty rough time and then a massive sort of upswing in the late he hired the right people to roll that back to september of 1981 let's talk about barracora this is the sci-fi theme fish name speaking speaking of uh of of barry ausler yeah this game was a williams system seven board set game 2350 units which is a far cry from like what he had done at game plan and for that matter yeah game plan a much smaller company and they sold 4 000 units of sharpshooter yeah it's a standard body pin it's designed by roger star sharp and steve epstein and this is sort of actually designed by barry ausler art by doug watson and uh sound and software by ed sikoski sikoski another doug watson copy job yeah he ripped off there's there's i can't remember what it was but there is a picture basically that this is kind of ripped off of kind of like uh was it the quicksilver which was ripped off from a heavy metal magazine exactly poor doug was not above uh you know copying some material so the artist uh you know uh giger who was very much the the influence for alien or the design of of the film alien what the alien looked like in the film alien the barracora is very much a lift a homage of one of the artist geiger's things so you know again you had mentioned tend to get his inspiration or doug rather tend to get his inspiration kind of from from other i would tell that to him to his face though he's pretty big guy and he works out big freaking arms i remember that the show like whoa i better not mess with that guy it's like punch me so the original theme for this game was las vegas and it was totally themed around a roulette wheel inside the pinball machine probably probably another center i would assume and this is not uh what happened no roger says i think there was a prevailing attitude that people didn't like vegas as a theme they like the idea of gambling or what have you steve richie called it lost bogus so he kind of got shut it into a corner no one paid a lot of attention to it it was a totally different experience than a game plan i was the only game in town for them so so roger was like people were like a game plan were like oh roger like he he's the man that did a thing in in the 1970s in a corner they also didn't have designers but williams has designers so and they got steve richie who is at this time in the late in the early 80s like a god and he's doing steve richie things calling the other game crap lost bogus right it's competitive that is so steve richie so they kind of toss it off into the corner but according to roger sharp who was on an episode of pinball profile with jeff teolas i've included that in the show notes the original las vegas roulette wheel under the playfield that became too complicated it probably wasn't going to work it might not have been that way it was a bit gimmicky roger and steve designed the rules and then they passed that off to williams now that's where i want to really tie it in was the rules that is kind of what sets barracora out amongst a lot of the games in this era tends to be a tournament tournament darling right yeah yeah you see it a lot of tournaments yeah the layout uh was not as good as they wanted and barry ausler was the fellow that the williams higher ups asked to help them out they would return a few months later they being uh steve and roger to a game with their basic play field but everything was completely different gone was the roulette wheel gone was las vegas there were a couple of tweaks here and there but it was a it was a different las vegas was still there as in all the tough targets but now it's spelled barracora with two r's for one of the targets so it would fit of course why wouldn't it according to barry there were a lot of changes in the early design that steve and roger had put together we spoke about this in detail and barry ausler saves pinball a previous podcast so go back and listen to that in the archives but what did roger think roger said it did work out although again when i saw the artwork for the first time walking into the factory and steve kordak took me down to the middle of the production line what is this game i'm looking at from a distance the the striking face on it a fish coming out of her head like what the hell i died how do you even pronounce that i think my biggest regret was mike stroll not listening to me and steve richie was making black night the company's focus has shifted yeah we're we're getting into a situation here right where steve richie comes in he's like this is crap and the the leader mike stroll is like okay well like do it you can this is kind of dumb i don't know it turned out okay it's weird um but a lot of games were weird at that time right it's fine it's got lots of drop targets but it's the rules let's it's that whole like upper the lane change thing where it has double lane change that's crazy talk it's neat once you get used to it but roger says barricora had a chance to do multi-lane change so that could take three lanes and have them function to six with double lighting up on top and i also gave players the opportunity to play for either three ball or two ball multi-ball so i mean there were these little touches which were the rudimentary beginnings of where things were with solid state yeah people are starting to bend their minds a little more kind of in the 80s we've had an evolution of pinball we've added you know multi-ball we've added sort of sound and record keeping the other thing that helped is or hurt thus helped was they were going to start getting crushed by video games so they cut back on the budgets so what can we do to make the games interesting that doesn't require putting more stuff in them yeah like physical things right well you make the rules a little more interesting so a lot of these these early 80s games have a lot of that yeah you got a lot of pro you're playing this you're paying this programmer what's what's them putting in another 10 20 30 40 hours right to make things a little more complex and and i think that that's pretty cool because it's made them kind of bend their head a little bit as to how i can improve things without adding another expensive drop target mech but speaking of drop target mech this is where roger gets back into game plan with sharpshooter 2 the return cowboy and mustaches theme again exactly it's a big theme mustache it did not sell 4 000 units like the other one did it did not november of 83 it sells 600 units yikes designed by roger sharp and wendell mccadam art by larry day who i think is really underrated with his pinball art and bruce schaffernick that sounds good i thought that was pretty good i only screwed it up kind of halfway through and then i corrected by raymond merchant or ryman merchant artist larry day told ipdb that while he does not remember the specifics of this machine the signatures indicate that both he and bruce schaffernick collaborated on the game working with gordon morrison from advertising posters in Chicago, which was a outsourcing artist. He literally doesn't remember doing the game, even though he did it. Doesn't remember it all. Larry said he can tell by the way he signed his name in a circle that this game was early in his arcade art career, as that was how he signed himself in the early days. So he doesn't even know. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess I did that. So the back glass, it's really good. Roger and Ellen are both sharpshooters together. They're both kind of hanging out back to back, shoulder to shoulder, two guns. Roger looks more like Tom Selleck now than he did before. The art style has significantly changed from the previous one, which I thought was pretty good. But you could tell it was an artist who had been around forever and had his style of art. This is really cool. And the hair.
    62:15
    God, I wish I had hair like that. Fantastic. What about the play field itself? Huh? two pop bumpers instead of a sling was a good idea right it looks pretty much the same as the first one wait a second this is exactly the same okay two pop bumpers down by the sling it's got how many drop targets there's seven drop targets on the left it looks like the same game it's it's the same game what are they doing here oh let's take a look at the flyer maybe it'll give us oh it does the first line the return of a classic ah like all of the other manufacturers at this time they're going to their back catalog exciting sounds lightning fast play challenging playfield magnificent graphics offering the captivating sounds of horse hooves distant tom-toms rifle shots gunfire bullet ricochet dynamite explosion coyotes okay rattlesnakes chuckwagon bell wow i love i love chuckwagon bells god that is one of my favorite captivating sounds so you like those uh what was that a dog food commercial that had the chuckwagon it was chuckwagon wasn't it love it just love it just love it so they're they're going to the back catalog because they can they know the cost they have the parts they're trying to just get it out the door different art package that seems fine i guess that is i would say a solid game um it's probably is it better than the original sharpshooter uh i don't know i know i've played it before but i don't remember if it was any better because most likely i played it at a show where i couldn't hear any of those wonderful new sound effects they were talking about like the chuck wagon bell oh yeah Yeah, the chuck wagon bell. That's just so exciting, Ron. So exciting. Coyotes? I wonder if it has crickets. Does it have crickets? That's a patented thing for Frontier. That's a Frontier thing. Yeah, yeah. That is Roger's entire career. No, it's not. Yes, it is. That's it. No, it's not. Are you sure? I'm sure. Okay. Well, I guess we'll probably have to do another Roger Sharp episode. This has been the token Roger Sharp episode. I'm so glad that we didn't spend all of our time talking about that thing that he did in a courtroom in the 1970s. Because there's so much more to Roger's career than that. Roger is on the Mount Rushmore of pinball, along with like Harry Williams and Gary Stern and probably George Gomez, because not of what he did in that courtroom that day in the 1970s, but because of all of the other things that he did and all of the things that he will do in our next Roger Sharp episode. So what he's saying is the courtroom thing is actually a bad thing. It just takes away from all the other stuff he did. Now I see where you're going. Do you see? I'm not crapping on Roger. I think Roger's great. It's just he's done more and people don't care.
    65:21
    Did you know Roger had a movie about him? We did mention that. As always, you can send your comments... Oh, okay, wait a minute.
    65:39
    Billy, we need you again. As always, you can send your comments, questions, corrections, and concerns to CivilBallCrolicals at gmail.com. We look forward to all your messages and we read every one. Please subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, soon to be YouTube Music, on your favorite podcatcher. Did you know that, Mr. Dennis? Turn on automatic download so you don't miss a single episode. Please remember to leave us a five-star or four-star, whatever the highest star is, review, wherever you see them. Join us on Patreon to support the show. Become a pro crony is the perfect way to say thanks, and it starts at $3 a month. Want to get early access to episodes before everyone else? Have a strange love for stickers? Do you know what Discord is? Jump up to $6 a month premium crony. Want all other perks in a shirt after three months? Join us at $20 a month as an elitist crony. And don't forget, at Pentastic, I'll bring you Canadian potato chips. Roger Sharp is hailed as the man who saved... Hailed it? Hailed it. That's a new word. I never heard that one.
    67:10
    Roger Sharp is hailed as... Oh, the blooper reel is going to be awesome for this episode. I might have to listen to it.
    67:21
    Please subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Oh, did you see? Google Podcasts is going away. Oh, is it? Yeah, I got an email on that.
    67:29
    Let me see here. Well, please subscribe to us on whatever the hell Google Podcasts is called. Yeah, it was... Where did I get that from? so basically it's going to youtube music very good very good i think that'll be good now so what i've done is i've tried to shorten the episodes a little bit i see that not a lot that was 3 000 words instead of like 55 or 5 000 so it might be a little easier on me on editing as well as as um just listening in general if this was a true roger sharp episode though should be like four hours long