Episode 646: "Non-Refundable Pre-Orders Need to STOP!"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 13s·analyzed·Feb 4, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.027

TL;DR

Kaneda demands end to non-refundable pinball pre-orders to restore customer power and manufacturer accountability.

Summary

Kaneda argues passionately that non-refundable pre-orders in pinball are harming the community by removing customer accountability and protecting manufacturers from quality and deadline commitments. He criticizes Spooky Pinball, American Pinball (Haggis), Stern, and Jersey Jack for non-refundable policies, citing specific failures like Ultraman/Halloween quality issues and nine-month delays. He calls for industry-wide reform and urges collectors to refuse non-refundable orders until manufacturers change.

Key Claims

Spooky Pinball and American Pinball (Haggis) both have non-refundable deposit policies
high confidence · Kaneda directly states this as established fact; references Chuckwurt (Spooky) and Damien (American Pinball/Haggis) by name
American Pinball's Fathom game is nine months delayed from promised July production start
high confidence · Kaneda: 'nine months delayed' and 'supposed to be in production last July'; references Damien's efficiency quote
Spooky Pinball did not show gameplay or animations for Ultraman and Halloween before taking pre-order money
high confidence · Kaneda: 'They did not show you gameplay. They did not show you animations. They did not show you anything.'
Spooky Pinball's Halloween game has poor animation quality that doesn't meet company standards
medium confidence · Kaneda criticism of animations 'that have no business being on a Spooky Pinball machine'; implies hired animator fell short
American Pinball took non-refundable deposits knowing games would miss July deadline
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'There was a moment when Damian knew that those games were not going to be on the line in July and he took your money'
Highway Pinball's collapse was partly enabled by having refundable (not non-refundable) deposits
medium confidence · Kaneda cites Andrew Highway refundable policy as cautionary tale; claims non-refundable would have been worse
Secondary market prices for premium games (e.g., Stranger Things LE) are unsustainably inflated at $17,500+
high confidence · Kaneda observes market behavior: 'Stranger Things LEs for like $17,500' and predicts correction
There is insufficient new game inventory and variety driving secondary market inflation
high confidence · Kaneda: 'There are not enough new games coming out that people want. There's no inventory.'

Notable Quotes

“If you haven't seen my Facebook, my mission now is to end once and for all the practice of nonrefundable preorder dollars in pinball. It needs to stop and I'm tired of it because what it's doing to this hobby is total bogus.”
Kaneda @ opening — Frames the episode's core argument and personal mission statement
“They're going to be efficient with both time and money... nine months delayed. So where are those efficiencies?”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Directly contradicts American Pinball's (Damien) public efficiency claims against actual delays
“I think nonrefundable deposits now with Spooky means that they're not being held accountable for making a great game. That they're not going to show us the quality of the game before they lock our money in.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Core thesis: non-refundable policies decouple quality accountability from payment
“Can you name me one other product, and I mean this, one other product, where your order is nonrefundable before even seeing what the thing is?”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Rhetorical challenge positioning pinball as uniquely customer-unfriendly compared to other industries
“I'm not giving you money and then you go hire an animator for Halloween whose stuff has no business being on a Spooky Pinball machine.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Expresses frustration with perceived quality cuts and poor hiring/execution on high-cost games
“If these companies need to raise money then go to investors, go to the bank, go somewhere else but don't come to us as customers and have us invest in your mediocrity or your missed deadlines or your poor quality.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Argues manufacturers should pursue alternative financing rather than shifting risk to customers
“I think people are done with this whole like small boutique company... some people's games now are catching on fire.”
Kaneda @ late-episode — Signals emerging sentiment shift against small manufacturers due to quality/reliability issues

Entities

KanedapersonChris WardpersonChuckwurtpersonDamienpersonAndrew HighwaypersonSpooky PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyStern Pinballcompany

Signals

?
product_concern: Systematic criticism of non-refundable pre-order deposits across Spooky, American Pinball, Stern, and Jersey Jack; framed as removal of customer power and manufacturer accountability
high · Kaneda's core argument; multiple manufacturers named; specific quotes about policy implications
?
manufacturing_signal: American Pinball (Haggis) Fathom game is nine months behind promised July start; additional January deadline also missed
high · Kaneda: 'nine months delayed'; 'missed January'; references Damien's non-communication about delays
?
product_concern: Spooky Pinball experiencing quality issues including poor animation on Halloween, in-lane feeder geometry problems on Ultraman, and isolated fire incidents
medium · Kaneda observations on animation quality, shot geometry, and explicit mention of games 'catching on fire'
~
sentiment_shift: Emerging negative sentiment toward Spooky Pinball despite strong historical community support; perception of quality decline and talent departures
medium · Kaneda: 'I think people are done with this whole like small boutique company'; references talent departures and community disappointment
$
market_signal: Secondary market prices for premium games (Stranger Things LE cited at $17,500+) are inflated due to supply shortage and new player demand; Kaneda predicts unsustainable bubble
high · Kaneda: 'Stranger Things LEs for like $17,500'; 'prices are absolutely bonkers'; 'it's going to come back down to reality'

Topics

Non-refundable pre-order policies in pinball manufacturingprimaryManufacturer accountability for deadlines and qualityprimarySpooky Pinball game quality and animation issuesprimaryAmerican Pinball (Haggis) delays and management communicationprimarySecondary market pricing and inflationsecondaryCustomer power and industry leverageprimaryPinball machine reliability and safety (fires)secondaryNew game inventory and supply constraintssecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.85)— Kaneda expresses intense frustration, anger, and disappointment with manufacturer practices. He explicitly screams and describes himself as 'heated.' While he acknowledges some optimism about market correction and respects individual manufacturers as people, his core message is one of distrust, accountability failure, and moral indignation. The tone escalates throughout the episode.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.061

Just like fire, burning up the way,fucking like the world up for just one day,watch this madness,couple charade,no one can be just like me anyway. Oh, back to back days of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Chris Ward is going to think this is the new norm. I just got to give him his $5 worth. Everybody, I am on a new mission. And this is going to be my mission all year going into the pinball world because this needs to change. And you know what it is. If you haven't seen my Facebook, my mission now is to end once and for all the practice of nonrefundable preorder dollars in pinball. It needs to stop and I'm tired of it because what it's doing to this hobby is total bogus. It is removing all of us as customers. It's removing any power we vicinity Pinn Forlaps Pinn plan no and uh... tan pan Rod then we've got Spooky Pinball, nonrefundable and the reason Chuck gave for nonrefundable deposits, remember back in the day he's like well people were changing their orders and then they were customizing their games and then they wanted a refund and we were stuck with this version of Rob Zombie that had like powder coated this and then we had to find a new customer. That's the whole reason why Spooky went to nonrefundable. Okay, we're going to talk more about that. Then we've got Haggis Pinball, nonrefundable deposit on a game that was supposed to be in production last July. And I'm going to read you a quote from Damien. You know, let's just start with it right now. Because this is why it is so bogus that we are handing these pinball companies money, and then once they have our money, we have absolutely no power to keep them accountable to deadlines, to a schedule, www.knappclaw.com www.spookypinball.com I'm a pinball manufacturer. I have easy access to other pinball manufacturing suppliers, so I needed to become self-sufficient as much as possible. With a reduced reliance on external suppliers, I can make decisions and affect manufacturing outcomes very quickly to implement efficiencies in both time and money. Let me repeat that. They're going to be efficient with both time and money. People, nine months delayed. So where are those efficiencies? We have not seen any of those efficiencies at all. And remember, this is the part that kills me. There was a moment when Damian knew that those games were not going to be on the line in July and he took your money. Why? Let's just ask these questions. Why did Damian take your money nonrefundable? Why does Spooky Pinball need your money nonrefundable? I mean, go watch the documentary on Spooky, right? How much rent are they paying? They've been given so much, so much by Benton I'm David David Van Es. I'm a professional pinball instructor at Sp bipartin Wisconsin, so much by the pinball community. Aren't we at the point now where they don't need nonrefundable dollars to survive? It's not like they have a hard time finding customers. They can sell games out in one day but why are they nonrefundable deposits? Why did Damien say they're nonrefundable? You're telling me none of that money for Fathom, none of that money went to building these kelts machines over the last eight months? See, we don't know but you have absolutely no protection. See, I go back to an Andrew Highway scenario. Can you imagine if AndrewHighways games were nonrefundable? The reason why Highway Pinball went under is because they were refundable deposits Now it took people forever to get their money back from Andrew but he did not have a nonrefundable Ryan Policky And as much of a crook as he was the reason why he didn is he knew back then the climate was different If he told people if you give me your money you can get it back people probably wouldn have given them their money So the question now becomes, why are we trusting everybody to figure it out? Now look, I think Spooky Pinball will absolutely deliver the games. The issue I have with Spooky Pinball's nonrefundable deposit is not whether or not you're going to get your game. Here's my big issue with Spooky Pinball. I think nonrefundable deposits now with Spooky means that they're not being held accountable for making a great game. That they're not going to show us the quality of the game before they lock our money in. There's an extreme danger in that and we're seeing it right now. Let's look at right now what's happening. You gave money for Ultraman and Halloween. They did not show you gameplay. They did not show you animations. They did not show you anything. And now that a lot of people have seen what those games are and seen like the shot geometry and the in-lane feeders and the animations in Halloween which have no business being on a pinball machine that costs this much money. Now that people are seeing The Out Pinball Podcast is brought to you by Spooky Pinball. Indie Game I'd like to thank all of you who are supporting Spooky Pinball and those who have been supporting Spooky Pinball for the last 15 years. I'd like to thank all of you who have been supporting Spooky Pinball for the last 15 years. I hope to see you guys all be successful in your own community and the future of Spooky Pinball. Thank you all for being with us. I will see you all in the next video, but until then, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay safe. Have a great weekend! Have a great weekend! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! LeuSpace Thanks for tuning in to this segment of the Game of the Year. We'll see you next time. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Tip of the period plus T observing Super 10 handi is a quintessence deck of carbohydrateúc Alysonbai Abis prาน Ajion do Ho I just baked rk WalkUROO I'm not doing this crap anymore. We're not doing this. I not giving you and then you go hire an animator for Halloween whose stuff has no business being on a pinball machine I not doing it If you gonna get lazy and you gonna let the talented people at your company walk and you're not gonna show me gameplay and you're not gonna let me know if the game's any good and then you're gonna hold my money without giving me any chance to get it back, you did not live up to your end of the bargain. You have taken your company backwards, Spooky, and now you want people to lock their money in. I bet it feels great putting all that money in your checking account, but it's not fair. OUR NEXT NAME DO NOT GET KISSED 6 3 Can you name me one other product, and I mean this, one other product, where your order is nonrefundable before even seeing what the thing is? www.kiw gosh.gmail.com I'm not going to be held accountable because they don't have to be held accountable. I am shocked. I am shocked how little uproar there is over at Haggis Pinball by the community, by the buyers. What the hell? Like you can go nine months and miss every deadline and he just missed January, right? He just missed January. And I know Damien's a good guy, but what has he done? Has he come out and officially said anything? He said nothing. In email correspondence with people, he's telling you, oh, we're heads down. How To with Luca ≪I love TV prescribed pricing non-scripts of our top 10 shows. 캐� heiße≫ ≪ rapport with this hashtag would be the way ≪V aplic chills≫ ≪ Europe—SK FILMSkommen ≫ No, go hire talented designers. We need to stop this and we can stop it like spooky pinball is not going to go hire talented designers and talented coders and talented animators until they learn a lesson with these two games. And that is that they're not good enough. And I know there's just those cheerleaders on pin side that just say, well, we should be supporting pinball companies and this is how you do it. No, it's not. These companies all know one simple truth. If you make a great game and you from You're in O'Connor in trouble트 When you have playfield anecdote falling apart Democr soccer аб gard, and you don't fix the problem І'e in trouble JF Ife goshüzüçğürülçüçüç소ran gözleme Jrıcz Ice ve Hı çıktıızıçıçıç dirig גם wyüç с�르 moygoing tan ifiğzıç aziz Hart הפצwach precautions, anti surgery その4 in my country, prorect and par再生 Just one of the biggest If these companies need to raise money then go to investors go to the bank go somewhere else but don come to us as customers and have us invest in your mediocrity or your missed deadlines or your poor quality We not doing it anymore And I hope all of you get on board And this is something that we need to shift We need to change this This is just unbelievable to me that you could take someone money and then go 10 months and then stop giving them updates And we're seeing it in 2022. I mean, this is like Kevin Kulik, Andrew Highway behavior all over again. And it doesn't matter how nice you are. And it doesn't matter if they respond to personal emails. No, a company that gives you a deadline. I mean, when a company is saying that they can make decisions and affect manufacturing outcomes very quickly to implement efficiencies in both time and money. Damian, where are you implementing efficiencies that are impacting both time and money? You're losing money and you're inefficient. You're headed in the wrong direction. Jersey Jack Pinball, are you going to do nonrefundable deposits on the next game before we see if you fix the playfields? They are absolutely going to do it. And then we're all gonna have to go in and not have any protection if the playfield start falling apart again. And spooky pinball forget it. I mean I think people are done. I really do. I think people are done with this whole like small ludu boutique company. I mean some people's games now are catching on fire. Go look at it. Go look at it. And I'm not saying that all spooky games are gonna have these issues. It's just a few isolated incidents. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's a fire or a bad right flipper coil. It doesn't matter. You should be able, after you see the game and after you hear feedback, if you don't want it, you should be able to get your money back. The excuse, think about Chuck's like reason. We can't give refunds because people are personalizing their orders. Alright Chuck, how about you do this? Do what Stern does, Chuck. Remove the personalization from the games. If you do that, then every game has to be great. Make your collector's edition just one way to order it. That way, you know, throw the butter in, throw everything into it. That way you can't have this excuse that I can't give you a refund because then I can't find a buyer that wants his game arranged this way. It's such an excuse. It's not going to work anymore. I think everyone's seeing through it and I think it's the one thing, it's the one thing hanging over this hobby. Am I right or am I wrong? I know I'm probably clipping all over this podcast. I usually don't scream like this into the mic. It's early in the morning, sleep deprived Kaneda, just trying to do a Kaneda's Pinball Podcast for you two days in a row, trying to give Chris Ward his money's worth. The pinball world is crazy these days. It's crazy these days. I'm seeing the prices. They're absolutely bonkers. It's going to come back down to reality. It absolutely is. It's fun to watch it. It's fun to watch all you guys buying like Stranger Things LEs for like $17.5. Good luck selling that game one day. See, what's happening right now is this. There are not enough new games coming out that people want. There's no inventory. So nobody's moving games out of their collections to make room for the new hotness, right? And let's face it, like nobody's really like shifting games out to put Halloween or Ultraman in. Nobody's doing that for Legends of Valhalla. You've got this period where there's like not a lot of new stuff everybody wants, so they're holding onto their games and then you've got a lot of new people in the hobby. Now the new people in the hobby when they want something, they're screwed because there's no b-endo b-endo ab pergi tolerans ab planeF I'm going to start trying to list these premiums again for like over 10 grand. Nobody's biting guys. Nobody's going to bite. But right now, it's what you have to do to get the product. If you want a pro, you might be offering $9,000 for certain pros that they're not manufacturing right now. And that's just the way it is. I love being on the sidelines. I love just sort of watching this from a distance. It's nothing I would do. I just don't think the experience of pinball is a $17,000 experience. But for some of you out there, maybe it is. Let me know your thoughts on this whole preorder thing. I'm really heated about it. And I really want to hold these companies accountable. And I think together we can put enough pressure on them not to do it. And remember, we have the power. It's all in our court. If we just close our wallets and say I'm not ordering this game, if it's nonrefundable, they're going to have to change their ways, okay? Unfortunately, there's just so many people out there that don't care and they'll just buy this stuff and this cycle will just continue over and over again. Everybody have a great weekend. Saturday morning spectacular is tomorrow. I'll see you then.