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Episode 187 – Chosen Then Ignored

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 49m·analyzed·Jun 4, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.042

TL;DR

Kyle Spiteri joins Slam Tilt to discuss pinball repair, Marco Specialties operations, and industry tech trends.

Summary

Ron Howlett and Bruce Nightingale host Kyle Spiteri from Marco Specialties on Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 187. The discussion covers Kyle's entry into pinball (discovering Creature from the Black Lagoon in 2008, working at Pacific Pinball Museum, joining Marco in 2019), his 'Show of Shows' tech demonstration series, vintage pinball system preferences and repair challenges, and recent Stern updates including Rush and Godzilla code releases and scoop design issues. The hosts also speculate on Jersey Jack Pinball's Toy Story release timeline.

Key Claims

  • Kyle has been at Marco Specialties for almost three years, since 2019, working in product development and management

    high confidence · Kyle's direct statement: 'I've been at Marco for almost, coming up on three years now. I moved here in 2019.'

  • George Gomez revealed that Stern has purchased and is testing 3D-printed scoop protectors (likely Ninja Camp brand) for potential use in future games

    high confidence · Kyle: 'He mentioned things like the 3D printed one... And he said that Stern has actually bought some of them and are testing them. Not necessarily for Rush, but to see maybe for future games how they would last.'

  • Rush and Godzilla pinball code updates are both at version 0.96, approaching 1.0 release

    high confidence · Bruce: 'Rush and Godzilla both are up to .96, I think. They're both tied at .96. Getting closer to 1.0.'

  • Rush received a new second wizard mode (Cygnus 2) that requires completing all modes and songs to access

    high confidence · Kyle: 'It's got a second wizard mode in it now, Rush... The second one, the Cygnus 2, you need to finish all the modes, all the songs.'

  • Marco Specialties maintains approximately 20,000 physical SKUs plus additional virtual SKUs for assembled kits

    high confidence · Kyle: 'it's difficult keeping 20 something thousand items in stock... we have like 20 000 physical SKUs and another five digits and virtual SKUs'

  • Kyle's first pinball machine was Creature from the Black Lagoon purchased for $800 in 2008

    high confidence · Kyle: 'I bought a creature from the Black Lagoon for $800, and it was exactly as you'd expect an $800 creature from the Black Lagoon would look like.'

  • Kyle worked at Pacific Pinball Museum with approximately 1,400 machines (about 100 playable, 600-700 on legs, similar amount on backs)

    high confidence · Kyle describing Pacific Pinball Museum: 'I'll pay you to fix pinball machines. We've got 1,400 of them... about 100 or so in their commercial location... had at least 700, 600 games on legs and about the same amount on their backs.'

Notable Quotes

  • “Pinball was the most magical thing because it offered something I couldn't ever do at home. So video games weren't interesting but those weird plywood boxes that made a bunch of noise were very interesting.”

    Kyle Spiteri @ ~5:00 — Captures the sensory appeal and tangible magic of physical pinball machines vs. digital alternatives during Kyle's childhood in 2000.

  • “Through Mark's massive amount of passion and his dedication of his life to keeping pinball games out of landfills, I followed him over to help his dream come true as well.”

    Kyle Spiteri @ ~12:30 — Articulates Marco Specialties' core mission of game preservation and Kyle's ideological alignment with the company.

  • “It's difficult keeping 20 something thousand items in stock... sometimes a stinker slips through. So it's great when everyone lets us know so we can get in there and fix it.”

    Kyle Spiteri @ ~15:00 — Acknowledges Marco's inventory scale and operational challenges, positioning customer feedback as essential to quality control.

  • “As I've gotten to know so many people that work at Stern, you know, public-facing folk and behind-the-scenes folk... They all love pinball so much. Everyone does. So just always remember that.”

    Kyle Spiteri @ ~35:00 — Defends Stern's commitment to quality despite documented issues, emphasizing industry passion over negligence.

  • “They should be more like, whoa, there's a problem out there. Let's not keep on building this stuff like the time before this. Now with Rush, they actually did stop the line.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~38:00 — Praises Stern's decision to halt Rush production to address scoop issues, but advocates for more proactive quality intervention.

  • “I think it's going to be right after that. I think it's going to be July 4th weekend... I think they've had a couple little issues, little hiccups.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~60:00 — Industry insider speculation on Jersey Jack Toy Story release timeline, citing production delays and manufacturing challenges.

  • “Jerry Thompson is kicking stuff out of the park with everything he puts his hands on. That guy's insanely talented.”

Entities

Kyle SpiteripersonMarco SpecialtiescompanyRon HowlettpersonBruce NightingalepersonPacific Pinball MuseumorganizationGeorge Gomezperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack's production capacity approximately 3-5 machines per day; 3,500 units of Guns N' Roses over ~2 years; effort to increase output for upcoming Toy Story launch.

    high · Ron: 'How many games do they get out right now? What, three, five maybe? a day.' Discussion of 3,500 units over nearly 2 years.

  • ?

    event_signal: Marco Specialties featured 38-40 Godzilla machines at MGC 2021 show (late 2021 timeframe); Kyle responsible for setup of 28+ games in 3-hour windows at multiple shows.

    high · Kyle: 'we did late MGC 2021 MGC and we had 38 or 40 Godzillas... it's usually my responsibility to set all of them up... you're doing like 28 games and you're supposed to do it in like three hours'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Industry insiders emphasize Stern employees' genuine passion for pinball and quality despite manufacturing setbacks; positioning criticism as operational/procedural rather than apathetic.

    medium · Kyle: 'As I've gotten to know so many people that work at Stern... They all love pinball so much. Everyone does.' Defensive of Stern's commitment despite quality issues.

  • ?

    community_signal: Kyle's 'Show of Shows' tech demonstration series (~100 episodes) provides educational content on pinball repair and diagnostics; streams weekly on Facebook, YouTube, Twitch at 3pm Eastern Thursdays.

    high · Kyle: 'I try to teach people things that I wish I would have known or could have learned going through pinball repair and diagnostics.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack's production strategy appears to involve producing games to inventory before launch announcements, contrasting with earlier order-swap delays on Guns N' Roses.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.328

0:00
Well, good morning, everyone. My name is Ms. Jenkins, and I'm a speech therapist. And I guess a lot of you are wondering, why do I need speech therapy? Yeah! I already know how to speak. What can I learn here? You know, sometimes people don't even realize they have a speech impediment. What's a speech impediment? Speech impediment. Fuck.
0:30
Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Cell Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Howlett. Here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Hi, Bruce. Hi, guys. I almost got you guys back on weeklies now, right? Bite me.
0:52
We're not staying on weeklies. And this is episode 187. Nice. Yes, this latest fun, I have to say, with Bruce here, like we're recording this week, so I asked him Friday at 10.32, I got right here, what time we recording Sunday? He immediately responds, which is unusual, in the evening. I'm going to find out in a few minutes. It's like, okay.
1:20
Saturday night, and I realize he still hasn't gotten back to me. So when are we recording? And then at 7.30 this morning, he tells me 7 p.m. Sorry, was sleeping. You were sleeping at 9 p.m. I was sleeping at 9 p.m. Wow, you're old. I'm old. You're old. I am, but we have a guest. We have a guest. Who's our guest, Bruce? You know him from Marco Pinball. He is one of the guys that does the show of shows for tech. His name is Kyle Spiteri. Hi, Kyle. Hello. How are you guys? All righty. How are you? Is that what it's called, the show of shows? The show of shows, because he's the first one that really does a good almost weekly or bi-weekly. What is it, like bi-weekly now? It's supposed to be weekly, but just since I've been on the road so much going to all the pinball shows, it's kind of every other week, but it's going to be weekly now until I go to the next show.

  • Bruce speculates Jersey Jack Pinball's Toy Story will release around July 4th weekend rather than June

    medium confidence · Bruce: 'I think it's going to be right after that. I think it's going to be July 4th weekend... I think they've had a couple little issues, little hiccups.'

  • Jersey Jack has produced approximately 3,500 units of Guns N' Roses over nearly two years

    medium confidence · Ron: 'It's taken, what, almost two years for 3,500?' discussing JJP production capacity

  • The Rush scoop design issue required multiple iterations: initial material was incorrect, LE version (v2) was still not final, eventually arriving at final version

    high confidence · Kyle paraphrasing George Gomez interview: 'the material was incorrect, and then they had to do the ones for the LE, so they were like the version two, but that still wasn't the final thing, and then they finally had the final thing.'

    • Kyle Spiteri @ ~47:00 — Praises Godzilla pinball voice actor/sound designer Jerry Thompson's work quality.

  • “It's got a second wizard mode in it now, Rush. This exists, too, which I'll probably never get to.”

    Kyle Spiteri @ ~44:00 — Reflects on Rush's second wizard mode (Cygnus 2) being extremely difficult to reach, requiring completion of all modes and songs.

    • Stern Pinball
    company
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Mark Mandeltortperson
    Rush (pinball game)game
    Godzilla (pinball game)game
    Toy Story (pinball game)game
    Guns N' Roses (pinball game)game
    Creature from the Black Lagoon (pinball game)game
    Rochester Pinball Collectiveorganization
    Cliff Rainier (Cliffy)person
    Chris Kuntz (Pinball Pirate)person
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Ninja Campcompany
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Super Awesome Pinball Showorganization
    Steve Charlandperson
    Mike Sheeseperson
    KISS (pinball game)game
    Gene Simmonsperson

    medium · Bruce speculation: 'I think they're going to probably try to do a little bit more games, which would delay it a little bit more' before Toy Story announcement.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Deep Root Pinball's Retro Zombie game criticized as lacking revolutionary features; described as 'feeling like a bad WPC game' and 'not impressive' despite innovative control bar mechanics in later iterations.

    medium · Bruce: 'it just felt like a game that was... just felt like a game that was kind of like, yeah, that's Hurricane, game... it was not I don't know, revolutionary?'

  • $

    market_signal: Aftermarket scoop protector market established with multiple vendors (3D-printed options); Stern's official testing suggests potential integration into future game designs or acknowledgment of standard hole size redesign needed.

    medium · Discussion of VaxVix foam inserts, 3D-printed Ninja Camp protectors, and Bruce's suggestion to increase hole size design baseline to accommodate protectors.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Kyle Spiteri transitioned from motorcycle industry technician → Pacific Pinball Museum repair specialist → Marco Specialties product manager, representing common pathway into pinball industry through hands-on repair experience.

    high · Kyle's 15-year trajectory narrated in interview: 2000 childhood hobby → 2008 first machine → Pacific Pinball Museum → Marco in 2019.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack Toy Story in production; multiple industry sources suggest delays beyond original June target, with July 4th weekend as revised estimate.

    medium · Bruce: 'I think it's going to be right after that. I think it's going to be July 4th weekend... I think they've had a couple little hiccups.' Nearly 2-year development timeline noted.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern is actively testing 3D-printed aftermarket scoop protectors (Ninja Camp brand) for potential integration into future game designs, indicating official interest in aftermarket innovations.

    high · Kyle: 'Stern has actually bought some of them and are testing them. Not necessarily for Rush, but to see maybe for future games how they would last.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Rush scoop design required multiple material changes and iterations before achieving final working version; Stern halted production to prevent further defective units from shipping.

    high · George Gomez interview revealed incorrect material initially used, then LE version (v2), then final version; Bruce confirms local machine has destroyed scoop with no protector.

  • ?

    technology_signal: 10GB code update file sizes (Rush/Godzilla) create bandwidth challenges for home users; Kyle notes expectation of gigabit internet infrastructure for downloads.

    high · Kyle: 'They basically expect you to have gigabit internet at your house in order to download it that way. Yes. So Rush and Godzilla both are up to .96, I think.'

    • 2:15
    He does tech shows for Marco. You've done almost, what, 100? Almost 100 episodes, I think. Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I'm surprised no one's canceled us yet. But, yeah, it's been fun, you know. It's fun to teach people and show people things that I know and I want to share.
    2:37
    Excellent. So we get to ask you the number one question in the world. Oh, that one. Yes, this one. How did you get in the pinball hobby? Well, long answer Short answer When I was a kid Pinball was the most magical thing Because it offered something I couldn't ever do at home So video games weren't interesting But those weird plywood boxes That made a bunch of noise Were very interesting So I got to go I used to ride my bicycle all over the place To all the bowling alleys And the laser tag place in my town That had pinball to go try to find all the games that I could. Now, mind you, this was maybe the year 2000 when I was doing this, so there wasn't a lot of new games, but it was fun to find the backlog of games, right? Anyways, fast forward. One day I was riding my bike, and I saw a creature from the Black Lagoon sitting on the side of the road. I went into the business. I inquired. It was for sale. I called every friend I knew and borrowed as much money as I could, and a truck, and I bought a creature from the Black Lagoon for $800, and it was exactly as you'd expect an $800 creature from the Black Lagoon would look like. And I had to learn to fix it, and that's what started my obsession.
    3:58
    It was back in the, what, that was like 2008, so there was a lot of RGP, ways to learn how to fix pinball games through the Internet. I was very lucky to have some people local. the late, great Steve Charland, and a fellow you guys might know by the name of Cliffy, Cliff Rainier. And Steve kind of showed me the ropes on how to fix games and what I needed to do, and I fixed my game. It was glorious. Fast forward a few years, I got sick of working in the motorcycle industry, and I had been volunteering at the Pacific Pinball Museum in Alameda, California. I shared with Mike Sheese that I was sick of my job. I hated it. And he said, I'll pay you to fix pinball machines. We've got 1,400 of them get to work. And that's how I started in the pinball industry.
    4:47
    1,400 pinball machines to repair. Yeah. Yikes. Yeah, it's a really magical place. They have a lot of games. They have about 100 or so in their commercial location, like where you can go in and pay an admittance to go see and learn about the games. But they have a warehouse. I couldn't even tell you how big this place was. But there was at least 700, 600 games on legs and about the same amount on their backs.
    5:16
    Yeah, it's nuts. They got this warehouse to do the Pacific Pinball Expo 2016 and got all those games working. It was incredible. But, you know, that's, I think, something also. Sorry, I'm kind of jumping ahead. But one thing I feel lucky about with learning how to work on games in that kind of manner is because I was working on wood rails and 80s solid state games and 90s DMD games and everything in between, kind of all at the same time. So I kind of amassed a trial by fire knowledge there, you know.
    5:51
    And then after that, how did you get to Marco? That's across the country there. Yeah, that's Carolina. Yeah. So I was working with a guy called Chris Kuntz, the pinball pirate in Benicia, California. That guy's forgotten more about pinball than I'll ever know. He's incredible. But, you know, we used to go to the trade shows and Marco would be at the shows and I'd go to all the shows. And one day, you know, I was kind of hanging out with Mark Mandeltort, rest in peace. And, you know, he's just like, what's it going to take you to get to move to South Carolina and work for me? And that started a long discussion. So one thing led to another, and through Mark's massive amount of passion and his dedication of his life to keeping pinball games out of landfills, I followed him over to help his dream come true as well. Very cool. And how long have you been at Marco? I've been at Marco for almost, coming up on three years now. I moved here in 2019.
    6:52
    I work in the product development, product management side of things there. So I get parts made. I fix problems with our parts. I try to make sure we don't have crap in stock. That's a good thing. It is. It is, because we try not to be that way. No, no. Everyone, I guarantee, who's listening to this program is using Marco, which is great. And you guys, you know, I've never had a problem with you guys, actually. That's the good thing about that. Crystal's great down there, too. She always sends me little notes when I order my stuff. you know he told me i got to talk to bruce today oh good um yeah it's uh it's hard you know i mean i do hear about the negative side about a lot you know but at the same time let me fill y'all in with the everyone the entire audience it's it's difficult keeping 20 something thousand items in stock you know and sometimes we have like 20 000 physical SKUs and another five digits and virtual SKUs, like kits that get put together. But, you know, sometimes a stinker slips through. So it's great when everyone lets us know so we can get in there and fix it. That's a good thing. Yeah, I think I said the short answer, so sorry that was really long-winded. No, that's totally fine. No, this is a show about you and getting to know you more, and you can join us in our wackiness. So what is your show usually on? Okay, yeah, so the show, we stream it on, what, Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch. It is at 3 p.m. Eastern on Thursday afternoons. And you can catch us on any of those platforms. Twitch is the most fun because there's all sorts of funny emotes. But if you're not into that, YouTube and Facebook work fine. We kind of try to base the show around, again, if I think about how I had to learn to fix my game, you know, and using message boards and stuff like that. I try to teach people things that I wish I would have known or could have learned going through pinball repair and diagnostics, etc. You know, just trying to teach the newbie stuff as much as I can. But also advanced stuff, too. We do a lot of board work and that kind of diagnostic as well. What's your favorite system to work on?
    9:12
    I think, like everyone else that comes on your show, the classic Bally Stern. That's just my favorite. It's just easy. I understand it the most, you know. That being said, I also do like the 6803 system just because it's weird. It is weird.
    9:28
    I'm working on one right now, and it's so weird. Does it have the number pad? Yes, it does. Mine has the number pad. Oh, my God. Okay. I'm working on a heavy metal meltdown. Oh, cool. It's weird. When I'm looking at the schematics, some of the schematics show the fused holder on the left-hand side. Valley came out with this humongous fuse holder that's like 15 fuses on one board, and half of the schematics don't show that. I'm like, what the fuck?
    9:56
    I don't know if I've ever really gotten into a heavy metal meltdown before. Those are the games I work on the least. You don't see them very often, you know? And the cabinets barely hold together as it is. One step up above some of the European Williams games. You know, what was it? The prospects? Yeah, the Sonics. The Chemnitz is barely above that level of Sonics. So why are they barely above that level? Explain to our listeners, Bruce. Because they're particle board. They're particle board. Okay. Yeah. I think that they're not even particle board. I always tell people they're just made out of, like, stale cornflakes and super glue. It's like they're so awful. They are. And they tried weird stuff, like some of the shapes. Dungeons & Dragons has the bizarre... Cut-out bottom. Yeah, it's weird. They had a couple games like that. They had Dungeons & Dragons, they had Blackwater, and there's one other one, if I remember correctly, that did that, the weird cabinet, three of them. Was it Escape from the Lost World, maybe? It was, yes, that is it, the third one, I think. I'm almost positive, but yes, they had the weird, ugly cabinets. But they have lots of lights. Oh, yes, they have abilities of lights beyond light of all lights. Yeah, and two lamp matrixes, which is fun. Yeah. Yeah, you know. No, it's not. No.
    11:15
    So what's your worst? Which one do you hate the most working on? I'm going to throw up defense of System 80, but I'm going to say that I dislike working on System 1 games because I don't like just board swapping. Yeah. I find the only sensible way to fix a System 1 game while you're charging someone by the hour, unfortunately, is to just swap hours. Yeah. And the spider chip is just such a terrible, terrible design. What's the spider chip, Bruce? What does that mean?
    11:50
    On the System 1 CPU board, they have a proprietary chip from Rockwell, which is called the spider chip, which was really outdated before it even started. So it was outdated even in 1970, whatever, when they did it. Yeah, 77, when they were designing 76, 77. it was really from like 74, 75, and it was just, they didn't think ahead. Yeah. I think for its credit, talking to people who operated these games way back in the day, they were pretty reliable. They were until they crapped out and then you were screwed. Yeah, because they weren't designed to last for three decades, right? No, not even, literally, it was like 84, 83, you just seen all these just drop off the face of the earth, it seemed like. Really? Yeah, the connectors, batteries started crapping out and just leaking them all over the place and just forget about it. You were done then. It's hard to keep one running with the originals. Some people do. We have one at our place that has an original board in it. Our genius original. Oh, I was going to say, though, some of my favorite games are System 1 games. Pinball Cool, Genie, Roller Disco's Fun, Joker Poker. I don't know. Countdown? Countdown's a cool one, yeah. There's a lot of good System 1 games. And you do have the board swap if you are fixing somebody else's. Or in a commercial-operated environment, like the Rochester Pinball Collective. Wow! Rochester Pinball Collective, Bruce.
    13:22
    3949 West Commercial Street in East Rochester, New York. Suite 2965 in beautiful Rochester, New York. The guest stole my line. Sorry.
    13:34
    Did you plug it on your other podcast? Well, my other podcast, of course, is the Silver Ball Chronicles. This can be heard on the Pinball Network. Check out our latest episode on John Papaduke. Were you actually able to sleep at night after that episode? I was able to sleep. I didn't buy any of his games.
    13:58
    That's not true. I have his best game. I don't know. World Cup Soccer. He does have World Cup Soccer, which it is the best game, because he didn't really work on it that much. No, that's all John Papa. He didn't. The mechanics were all worked on by somebody else. Those ramps are all John Papa do. Oh, no, but the mechanics are not. I would say the rules were not him. I think part of the mechanics weren't even. Okay, okay, Bruce.
    14:23
    But, hey, we're going to have a new deep route soon. A new deep route? Oh, God. Oh. Did you hear about this run? Yeah, it's like the company that did all the programming for Deep Root, they bought a lot of the stuff in the bankruptcy auction and somehow taken over the site and put some kind of message code thing up saying what? Yeah, look to the future or some bullshit like that. No, it's not over yet or something like that. Something like that. Hey, guys, it's fucking over. Yes, it's over. Please let it die. Everyone's moved on. Just let it die. Did either of you guys get to play the Retro Zombie, whatever it's called? I did not, and I'm disappointed because that's one game I'll never get to play, probably. I got to play it in Houston in 2019, and this was before they brought the, you know, that control bar thing out. It just, it wasn't, it felt like a bad WPC game. Not a bad, it just felt like a game that was kind of like, yeah, that's Hurricane, game, and then you're just like, that's to me, in my limited amount of time playing the game, it was not I don't know, revolutionary? Maybe if it had all of those cool features like that crazy lockdown bar, I would have been a little more impressed, but it just kind of felt... The pin bar! I mean, unless you worked at Deep Road, I guess the only two times you could have played it were, well, if you were one of the Deep Six, you were at the Houston show it was at, or you were at that one location they had it at for like a day. Around Houston. Around Texas, yeah. Oh, is it like Cidercade or something? It was in Austin. It was in Austin, yeah. Where's the pin bar?
    16:09
    Oh, that was good material, though. Yes. You never can be, you know, out of material. With Robert Mueller, no. No.
    16:18
    I wonder how someone's taking their name, though, right? Unless they sold the rights. They sold everything. But aren't they in all sorts of crazy lawsuits? Yeah, I don't know how that happens either. Yeah, that doesn't seem right. I agree. Unless someone's getting paid something, i.e. all the old people they stole the money from.
    16:38
    Yeah. I don't get it. Let's see. What's the worst mech to work on? Oof. Oh, man. I think I'm thinking about this too much. I should just say what's coming to mind. I don't like this. I hate the Time Expander and Doctor Who. I hate working on the mini play field on The Shadow.
    17:04
    I'm probably going to say the Time Expander. You know what? No. I hate the damn bookcase on Adam's Family. I don't know why. It's not that bad because it comes out completely, though. But then you have to shim it, and if you don't remember that the shims are there, you do it wrong. I don't know. For some reason, I just don't like that one. I don't know why. I got to show it myself. I got to do it myself. Batman 66 and the rotisserie. It could be a bastard. But it removes completely, Bruce. Yeah, it removes completely, and it's got a node board buried deep inside of it. And that fails, you're screwed. And also, the brain bug on Starship Troopers. Oh, yeah, oh, that's a good high contender there. Yeah.
    17:46
    Ron? The only Macs I've worked on are games I actually own, so I mean, none that were too terrible. I mean, some of them are dumb. You wouldn't think, they're not mechs per se, but like Dirty Harry, the crisscrossing plastic ramps with the buck wire form thing that comes up and you have to take them off in a certain order and when you're trying to put them back, they're a pain in the ass. Or getting the stupid ramp out of No Fear because it was partially melted. Just try to replace it with a new one. That was a pain in the ass. Other stuff that people said were difficult wasn't really that bad, like Star Trek Next Generation Subway. You take off one ball popper, and you take off a shitload of screws, and you slide it over a little bit, and it comes right out. It's really not that bad.
    18:31
    Yeah, I guess everything in pinball is pretty damn procedural, right? It's just kind of, look, how does this affect this, and what do I need to do next? I think if I simplified that answer, it would probably just still be pop bumpers. I hate pop bumpers. Oh, I like pop bumpers. I hate working on pop bumpers, especially when you're working on a game like, I don't know, Doctor Who or something, and you've got to rebuild all the pop bumpers, and that play field doesn't tilt up. It just pivots, and they're all the way down the bottom.
    19:02
    Take the play field out, man. Take the play field out. Flip it upside down. It's easier that way. It takes my heart. You wanted it from the start. You got it now, so goodbye. So rip it out. Watch me cry. Let me guess. Kiss? Nope. No, that's not kiss. That sounds like something Kiss would say. It's Frilly's Comet. It's Kiss, then. No, it's not. It's Frilly's Comet. It's the guitars from Kiss. No, it actually is Ace Frilly. It's Ace Frilly. Yeah, exactly. Like I said.
    19:35
    Speaking of Kiss, I got to play Kiss with that updated code from a few years ago when I was hanging out at my friend Mike Vinacore's house, and that game's actually really fun now. It can be. It was always fun. I'm Gene Simmons of KISS. It is the greatest game ever made. That and the other KISS are the two best pinball machines ever made. So you can talk to Gene Simmons live on location. No, you can't talk to me unless you pay me. Go to kissonline.com, or you can pay for 30 minutes, no, five minutes with me. Only $300.
    20:13
    Reasonable. That's very reasonable. Yeah. He was in the news this week. Okay, Bruce. What did he do now? Did his wig fly off? No, he was bashing Trump and Biden. Oh, so he hates them all. Did they both? Let me guess. They're both killing rock and roll. No, they're both killing the United States. Okay. Yes. Gene Simmons with his hot takes. I know. Exactly. See? They're both killing it. Yes, they're killing it. As I am extremely rich, so I don't really care. It does not affect me. It does not affect me at all. Unless the taxes keep on going up and I take more of my money.
    20:54
    Oh, okay. All right. Let's see. How can I segue into a tech thing? Well, there was a George Gomez interview that just happened on the Super Awesome Pinball Show. Did you hear any of it? I did not. I've been very busy at work this past week. I did not either. Oh, he talks about the work. We get to hear about you now talking about it. He talks about the Rush Scoop.
    21:20
    And how bad it was designed. He says a lot of things that I'm surprised that they say. Okay, well. Well, no, he just explained the whole thing. It's the stuff we already knew, that the material was incorrect, and then they had to do the ones for the LE, so they were like the version two, but that still wasn't the final thing, and then they finally had the final thing. Did he bring up what they're going to do with the damaged play fields? I didn't know. I don't think so. Crickets, of course, on that. Well, just call your distributor. But I thought the interesting thing was they were well aware of all the aftermarket scoop protectors. And he mentioned things like the 3D printed one. He didn't say the name, but it's got to be the Ninja Camp ones. I think that's what it's called. And he said that Stern has actually bought some of them and are testing them. Not necessarily for Rush, but to see maybe for future games how they would last. I thought that was interesting. Can they just do the common sense thing? Everyone uses the kick-out hole as a standard size. But if you know you're going to put a protector in it, make it bigger, and then put the protector on it so it's exactly the same size as it should have been. I don't remember, but did they use a double-sided protector for Rush, or was it two separate protectors for each scoop hole? Oh, that's a good question. I think it was two. Yeah, I think it was two. There's one in front, and there's a side one. Yeah. In that case, yeah, I think Bruce has a very strong point there. Yeah. They could make it as big as the hole on South Park, you know. Yes. I love that. You don't see anywhere on that, do you? No, you don't see anywhere. So, obviously, they just need to be way bigger in the problem. Oh, man. Yeah, you know, not to overstep my bounds, but, you know, Stern definitely listens. You know, they do hear the complaints. And I think the thing is, that's a big ship. And sometimes it is difficult to get that big ship to turn as quickly as some other things in the market, you know. But they definitely listen. So that's all I'll say on that. You hear that, Bruce? No, because guess what? The person who was on the interview is the one controlling the ship.
    23:33
    That's why I need to go down and listen. I'm checking that thing a little bit harder, faster. But he does say, I mean, I believe this. He says, like, if you think we just sit there and we don't want to fix this stuff, or we just don't care about all this stuff, you are wrong. There are people that believe that. They just don't care about fixing any of this stuff. No, not like J.J.P. Oh, you had to go there. Of course.
    23:58
    As I've gotten to know so many people that work at Stern, you know, public-facing folk and behind-the-scenes folk and people that are just on the scene, They all love pinball so much. Everyone does. So just always remember that. It is frustrating. These are expensive toys, and it's definitely sad when things are not correct. But they love this stuff, and they don't want to deliver crap. So just remember that. Everyone. They also have to think about, and I'm going to say the other side of it, is they should be more into the knee-jerk thing of, whoa, these things aren't working. Let's stop the production line. so more crap doesn't keep on going out. They should be more knee-jerk is what you're saying. No, they should be more like, whoa, there's a problem out there. Let's not keep on building this stuff like the time before this. Now with Rush, they actually did stop the line. And that's the way they have to be, a little more proactive. I know no company wants to stop a production line, but if you're putting out crap and you're destroying play fields, I think this time they did the right thing by saying, whoa, we've got to stop this. I know the play field at the local The local yokel? Yeah The scoop is quite Destroyed at this point Yeah, it smokes Did someone take the scoop out? Or the protector out? Yep, there's no protector in it I like VaxVix was the best Oh, where you just put foam in it so you can't hit it at all You put foam in it so you couldn't Put a ball down it at all
    25:33
    That's fair. Yeah. And it worked. Did he get a protector for it eventually? Okay. He got the updated kit. He put it in, and it's working fine. And we have new code for that and for Godzilla this past week. Yes, another 10 gig new code for Rush. I know. They basically expect you to have gigabit internet at your house in order to download it that way. Yes. So Rush and Godzilla both are up to .96, I think. They're both tied at .96. Getting closer to 1.0. It's got a second wizard mode in it now, Rush. This exists, too, which I'll probably never get to. Have they added a lot of, like, video assets and other visuals? Is that why the update's so big? I don't really. I didn't notice anything in the front side of it. So maybe on the higher up, you know, when you get into the. It's all in that wizard mode that you can't get to. Yeah. 10 gigabytes of assets just for one mode. I like that. I don't know. To get to the second, see, the first one I think I could get to. You have to play all six multiballs. The second one, the Cygnus 2, you need to finish all the modes, all the songs. I've never gotten through more than like two. Two, yeah. Even in my good games. I heard they made the songs a little easier, but damn. I don't know. I'm going to have, or at least getting to the songs easier. I noticed a little more video on Godzilla. A couple little things, but I was like, oh, that's different a little bit. And then, you know, when you're looking at it, if you're lucky enough to watch it.
    27:12
    Was it absolutely incredible. My God. Good golly. Miss Molly The voice work on that game is incredible It is incredible I agree completely Jerry Thompson is kicking stuff out of the park with everything he puts his hands on That guy's insanely talented and, I don't know, he's great. We are the Exilians. Choose your fight.
    27:43
    Oh, man. I love that. But, yeah, I was thinking about this. Someone said this, and I don't know if it's true, but is Pirates not at 1.0 code? The JJP's Pirates? I don't think so, actually. Because someone said something like that they've had Wonka and Guns N' Roses, and they're both at, like, 1.0, but Decky still isn't. Do either of you guys have Pirates? No. 9.9. Okay. I mean, if they're going by the usual thing, does that mean it's not feature complete then? Well, maybe when they finally add pin score. What's one that they use? Scorebit. That will be 1.0. Okay. Maybe. That will be feature complete, I guess. Yeah, because that's the one that's left. Yes. JVP does all of their software dev in-house, correct?
    28:38
    Yes, they do. I mean, maybe they're working really hard on Toy Story. Yeah. Did someone say Toy Story?
    28:46
    I sure hope it's Toy Story because, like Bruce, I'm excited for that theme. So do you think Toy Story is coming out soon, Bruce?
    28:56
    No. Wait a minute, no? I keep hearing June, and it's going to be a fantastic, and you're saying no? No. No? No. Even though they literally said they're kicking people out from tours and they're retooling up the production line, You still don't think – what do you think is coming up? I think it's going to be right after that. I think it's going to be July 4th weekend, right after that. Huh. I think they've had a couple little issues, little hiccups. What do you think? Well, I've heard one person state this. Oh, okay. And he's pretty reliable. In the past, he's mentioned things about JJP, and it's usually come true. I'm thinking they've had a couple little hiccups. I think they were trying for fantastic. It still might happen. Maybe they'll just throw it like, you know, the old Batman 66 out there. I would know. They can't do that. I would not do that. They can't do that. Have the game behind velvet ropes and you can't play it. You can't do that. I know. I agree totally. But I, you know, I hope for them because it's been almost two years. It's getting pretty sad. It takes two years to get out a pinball machine.
    30:03
    I mean, how did they do Guns N' Roses? Was Guns N' Roses like, hey, wasn't it a TPF a few years ago? It's like, hey, it's done, and you can come play it? Or did they just do a teaser? They did a teaser video. Yeah, they had a teaser video. They had an initial, a bunch of them ready to go. Yep. Okay. And I think that's also probably one of their things is if they're – they learned from last time 100 wasn't possible. Yeah, they got swapped with orders, and they could not fulfill them. I think they're going to probably try to do a little bit more games, which would delay it a little bit more. How many games do they get out right now? What, three, five maybe? a day. So if you're trying to go for 300, it's got to be more than that a day. You don't see them dumping a lot of games out there. It's taken, what, almost two years for 3,500?
    30:52
    Yeah. So... It's still a lot of units, though. I mean, it's not in the traditional scheme of things, but 3,500 units, I mean, that's pretty good for, you know, smaller companies. Don't forget, there's a new game, new wiring, new all this stuff, working on the bugs, and then boxing and everything else. It takes a little bit longer, and if they're just throwing out people out of the factory three or four weeks ago, it doesn't give you a lot of time to get 300 games ready.
    31:18
    So I think it's going to be July. I think everyone's fantastic thoughts and happiness and wondering it's going to be there. I don't think so. Maybe I'll be wrong. Well, speaking of new games, I mean, Kyle, how does it feel when you go to these shows and Marco has all these latest and greatest turns? it's so much fun I tell you what I'm really lucky because I got to work for a distributor for a long time so I'd always have the new games all the time but now it's even more fun because I get to share it with the people or something like that it's super cool man it was really amazing last year when we did late MGC 2021 MGC and we had 38 or 40 Godzillas did you all see the pictures of that show at all? Oh, yes. It was amazing. They were absolutely incredible. That was so cool. It's just fun, though. It's fun to see the people come out and get to experience the new games and kind of go over it with them and see what they have to say about them instead of just kind of by themselves in an arcade or in their basement or something. I just enjoy sharing pinball with people a lot. I think that's my favorite thing. It is fun to bring all these new games with us to the shows. Now, it does suck because it's usually my responsibility to set all of them up. you're doing like 28 games and you're supposed to do it in like three hours it's not fun but we get it done he's like the santa claus of pinball i went to santa claus of pinball one year in like 2016 i know we delivered an iron maiden to a family oh this lady came into the shop when i was working at the pinball pirate and it was like you know three or four days before christmas She's like, I want this game, but here's the catch. I want it delivered on Christmas Eve at night. And I've never seen the guy I work for get so giddy before. He was so excited for us to play, like, Secret Service Santa. You know, we got this game in the truck, and we delivered it and pushed it into their garage, you know, at 11.30 at night on Christmas Eve. I would love to get a pinball machine for Christmas. That must be really exciting. So would I. If anyone wants to give a pinball machine to Bruce Make sure it happens on Christmas this year Woohoo Well if you want to give him a pinball machine To make arrangements you can just email us At slamtailpodcast at gmail dot com Because I never look at the email Only Ron does Are there any Christmas themed pinball machines South Park There's snow and everything like that Taxi has Santa Claus Okay.
    33:55
    I think that's a missed market. Wow. Why isn't... No, there is that homebrew. That dude made an elf.
    34:02
    He made an elf in the Nightmare Before Christmas one. Christmas, yep. Yeah. Is that a Christmas movie or is that a Halloween time movie? It's a Christmas, if I remember correctly. There's Christmas stuff in there. What was it called? The Nightmare Before Christmas? Yeah. Well, I mean, it is, but... It's Tim Burton, so it's as dreary as it is.
    34:23
    I'd just like to hear people's response to that question. I don't know why. It is. It's a Christmas movie still. Just like Die Hard is. Oh, yeah. I knew you were going to go there. Yes. Okay.
    34:35
    Okay. So what do you think of the Godzilla building, speaking of mechs? Hopefully you haven't had to work on too many of them because they just work great. They do work great. Yeah, they actually do work great. I did have I've had to recalibrate them before But that's also relatively simple The software takes care of that But honestly it's actually a really neat mech Have you seen it before, Ron? Like underneath? I have not seen it in person underneath Other than the The original The stream when he showed it out of the game And I'm like oh my god that thing is humongous It is Yeah it is But it's simple There's like two limit switches and then there's a worm gear and a servo motor, or I'm sorry, a stepper motor, so it knows how many degrees it's turned to reach all these levels, and it knows when it's down and when it's up, and it just makes magic happen. I think that's such a cool mech because it really aids in the choreography of the game, but it also changes what the ball will do in different parts of the game, right? And things in pinball that do that kind of stuff are really fun to me. You know, like the diverter, the controllable diverter on Rush or the diverter on Radical. They're kind of the same thing, aren't they? Or diverters on Shadow. Yeah, where you can control your own destiny, right? Pinball doesn't allow you to do that very often. No, it does not. But, yeah, it's a fun one. I had one go out of adjustment at the Golden State Pinball Festival, my home show, a couple weeks ago. But it was a 10-minute fix, and everyone was jamming on Godzilla the rest of the day. Nice. So then they can shoot the wamps. Shoot the wamps. Oh, God.
    36:22
    All right. Let's see. What else do I have here? Did anyone watch the IFPA Championships? IFPA 17? I did. I didn't.
    36:37
    Don't worry. It's only about 10 hours of viewing just today. Just today. Hold on. Yeah. Oh, my. Sunday, and this is the day of the final eight. Okay. It finished before we went on the air. Yes, go figure. So congrats to Eric Stone. My pick, by the way. My pick. Of course, this was in Florida, his home turf. Home arcade. Yep, but he won. He came through. He is the IFBA champion. Congrats to Eric Stone. Next year it will be in Germany. Germany! And I've heard the year after that's going to be a Jim Belcedo's place, so sorry, Bruce. Yes. Yep. No RPC. I'm gunning for 2026. You're better off gunning for the state nationals finals. You'd probably be better off doing that. Oh, that'd be better. Yeah. Hey, Josh. Hey, big boy.
    37:31
    Where are those usually held in New York, the state finals? This year it is going to be, I think, in the middle this time. I think it's the... The Frog Fantasy. Yeah. Ah. Last time it was at the Silver Bowl Saloon. Yes. That's right. Yes. So long ago. And then after that, we don't know where it's going to be. So it was always a possibility. Well, I was thinking more of the Nationals. I was thinking about the Nationals. Yeah, the Nationals. I love the Nationals. Come on, Josh. Mr. Sharp, we're willing. We got the places for it. Okay, so I'm not a tournament pinball kind of guy. What happens is after each state finals and each one of the states or providences of Canada, they will then send them to another tournament. Providence? You mean in Rhode Island or do you mean province? Province. Oh, okay. Province, province, you know. I'm thinking French. All the states and in Canada, the provinces all have their state finals on the same day, which is what, the day, it's the weekend before the Super Bowl. Yes. Yeah. Then all the winners of all the different states and provinces all go to a location to play for the national championship. National championship, yes. And that's what Bruce wants. I want glory. He wants the Rochester Pinball Collective to be that location. Yes, I'd love that. I want it to be that location, too. Judging by the list of games, you've got a great spread, a little challenge for everybody. Yes. EMs, which you don't see many, of course, unless you go to the big places. We have everything from 1959 all the way up to 2022.
    39:13
    Not too shabby. You even got Rescue 911. I know. ISPA Finals on Rescue 911. Oh, no. The most arbitrary scoring game of all time. No, no. No, there's a bug in it. There's an exploitable bug in Rescue 911.
    39:30
    No, you have to put it on hoops. Not hoops. There you go. Yeah. Let's see. So going back to the IPA, did you see the big concession? Maybe that's what it will be known for now going forward. The big concession. Explain it, Mr. Ron. What is the big concession of the 2022 IPA championship number 17? Okay, I'll try to do this quickly. So the format is best of seven head-to-head. But if they're tied 3-3, then it becomes a best of three, two out of three. So you can have a maximum of nine games. Does that make sense? Kind of? It does. Totally. So one of the prime matchups of this morning in the Elite Eight, the final eight players, was Escher Lefkoff against Keith Elwin.
    40:18
    Keith Elwin, the GOAT, the greatest of all time, versus the heir apparent, the guy that Elwin himself said is going to be the next him. And it went all the way down to the last game, game nine. I'm dialed in, Bruce.
    40:38
    Escher was player one and Keith was player two. Escher picked the game. So Escher had a really good ball three and he got a million.
    40:50
    He had a little over a million, which is good. I'm dialed in. Keith had about 200K. It's not that far away. It's 800K. It's not as far away. It's a couple modes. You play a couple good modes, get some sim cards. You can totally come back. But Keith just walked up for his third ball and just plunged it away and walked away. He conceded. He never even played his third ball. Maybe he just didn't want to play dialed in anymore. Shut up. It gets over his game. It's a great game. See? You tell him, Kyle. It's a great game. I think so. It's a great game to put you to sleep. Yes, I totally agree. The thing about it is Colin McAlpine, he's the announcer, and he's confused. Like, what just happened? Everyone in the booth is confused at what the hell's going on. I was surprised. I was like, what the hell's going on here? Which is weird because they went all the way to game nine. Yeah, I'm just wondering if he told, maybe Keith said to Escher, hey, if you can get a million on this, it's yours. I'll concede. You win.
    41:53
    That's all I can think of. Yeah. Because it just looked weird because, I mean, just the reactions just didn't match up here. You know what it was? I got it exactly. Remember the old Coca-Cola commercial with Mean Joe Green? And the kid works up, and then he goes, he has his hands in the Coke, and he goes, here, kid. And instead of giving him the jersey, he just gave him the walk-off. He gave him the walk-off. Okay. Jesus Christ. Thanks, mister. Elwin. So after he gave Elwin a Coke, and Elwin's like, here's my jersey. Here you go. It's just, it was so weird. It was weird because he was in the running. If he beat him on that game, he would have been in the top four. And he's never, it's the only tournament he's never won. The only major he's ever won, yes. Yeah. Well, that and European pinball championships, but he's never gone over there. He's never gone over there, so guess what? It was just so weird. He made it to all these. And he left afterwards. He just left. Yeah. Yep. So I don't know what happened, you know, but. I mean, do you have to catch a plane? It's just maybe his flipper finger was injured.
    43:00
    It was just weird. It was. I'd never seen it before. I didn't see it originally because I was actually out with my dad. We were hitting golf balls and stuff. And what we were done, I turned it on literally probably five seconds after he punched his ball away. Because I got just Colin's reaction. Huh? I'm like, the next round after, unfortunately, Escher lost. Yeah. Escher then played Eric, and with the exception of a close game on – well, actually it wasn't that close a game, but it was a bad game for Escher on Black Rose because he was blowing it up the whole time, but he still won. The other games were – I mean, Eric just dominated. Eric Stone had $14 million on that 14-time cap. Yeah. And Escher went up and just turned the game off like, I can't do that. No, that's too good. Let's go to the next game. Yeah, let's go to the next game. I can see. He was on fire. And he beat Kaylee George in the Final Four, too. He did. Kaylee beat Andre Mastikoff? Yeah, he did. No, he beat... No, he did. He did. Andre Mastikoff had a... You're thinking of the eight. Yeah, sorry. He had a 3-1 lead on Kaylee and then lost 5-3. Yeah. He lost, like, a bunch of games in a row. Then, yeah, he beat Jim Belsito. Probably the sentimental pick. He's old like us. You know, everyone loves Jim. And he was the top qualifier. He had like one of the best, I think he had the best score ever in qualifying that's ever happened.
    44:27
    So we'll call it the great concession. I've made up that term now. Hey, copyright it. Copyright it. Hold on. Let me get that quick email. You know what happened during that tournament, though? Another tournament. Tickets became available for it. The New York City Pinball Championships. Yep. Oh, boy. And it had a pre-sale until tomorrow, which is Memorial Day, of $85 for the entry. I think it's until June 1st, so it would be one extra day, yeah. So for people who are not well-versed in tournament stuff, why is the New York City, why is this tournament special? Is it because it's New York City? Yeah, pretty much. Or is it long-running? No, it's because it's the New York City. It's in the greatest city on Earth. So great, they named it twice. And you get things like live bands playing in the middle of Classics Finals. And if you're an outlier, you get to wear the blazer, which is awesome. I love wearing the blazer. And where most broadcasts do not really – they want you to be professional and not go crazy and do things like swear,
    45:40
    the broadcast at the New York City Pinball Championships is the polar opposite. That's it. Mm-hmm. So you have to pay for the three-day weekend pass, it's $100. And in the joint tournament, it's $85 if it's before the 31st, then $95 before June 30th, and then $105 before July 31st. As you would expect with New York City, it is one of the more expensive tournaments as far as just overall price and everything you've got to pay. Hotel room. It is New York City. Actually, the hotel room wasn't bad. It's in Brooklyn this time. Well, Brooklyn is New York City. It's the same thing. I know, but it was in Manhattan last time. Okay. A few times. What does that mean, Bruce? Is one more expensive than the other? It sometimes is, sometimes isn't. I didn't know you were a New York City expert. I used to go there all the time. Okay, Bruce, that makes you the expert. I was a Yankee season ticket holder, buddy. Wow. Oh, okay. I better shut up now. That was a future bump. Yeah. So should we go to the Bronx then, Bruce? I love the Bronx. Wow, really? Yes, I do. Okay.
    46:47
    All right. Game you like, game you hate. Let's do it. Oof. Wow. Okay, hold on. I'll give you one quick reprieve. You can keep thinking, and we'll say the 24 hours at the Sanctum. They're doing a lottery. Lottery. So instead of... 100 people who first people get in are in. Yeah, which sells out in about five to seven seconds. Instead of that, you put your name in, and they're going to have a lottery. They're going to pick names. Did you see the meme I posted up on Slamtail Podcast? Do you mean the one where you said you were going to retire? You said that literally in the last episode, but yet you still entered yourself in for the lottery anyway. Yes, I did. Yes, I did, because I like that tournament. It's fun. I like going 24 hours. It's like, you know, good petitions. Stand them up. Just to review for our listeners, last 24-hour tournament, Bruce played in. You drove back to Rochester after the tournament and worked your shit at the Silver Ball Saloon. I did. Dang, that's dedication. That's just stupid. And I think I got like 18th or 19th on that, you know, out of the 100 people. So I did pretty good there. But luckily, the picture that Ashley – you know, everyone knows Ashley on the podcast right now. Yeah, everybody knows Ashley from Rochester on the podcast. On the podcast. That's on right now. Yes, okay. Yes. Very much so. And she posted me in a picture as Helga. That was hilarious. Oh, yeah, you were in drag behind the bar. Yes. That was a beer wench, as you call her, a St. Paul-y girl. I was slinging beers, and that's the picture she chose. And so, yes, if I get in, maybe I'll have to dress up like Helga. Please don't. I like that. Very sexy. You know, I should have ventured twice. I should have did two entries. Oh, for Stu. Yeah, I should have put Stu in, you know, because he probably wouldn't do it himself. So I could put Stu in and myself and double my chances of getting in. There you go. That would probably be frowned upon. I think that would probably be true. Yeah, or just show up as Stu. That would be hilarious. And then they don't let him in because your name isn't Ron. Yeah.
    49:01
    What do you mean? You know, maybe if I bring Stu along, he can drive me there. Ooh, that's even better. He can be your chauffeur. Yep. All right. Enough reprieve. It's time. Wait, it's not time because I have a question. Oh, okay. Okay. I think maybe this is a dumb question, but, again, coming from someone who doesn't do the tournament thing, There is a semi-prestigious, at least in California, City Champ. It's the San Francisco pimple tournament, right? Yes. And it sells out in microseconds, milliseconds. Is that the one at Free Gold Watch? Yes, Free Gold Watch. It is. So I was wondering, I think Ron said something about a lottery. Yes. I was curious, is that like a common thing or a new thing? It's kind of a new thing. They're trying to make it more fair to everyone who maybe didn't find out or just wasn't fast enough internet. So what they're doing is just say there's 300 people who want to sign up. So they go with random.org, I think, and just pick the numbers out of the 300. They sign each person a number, and there you go. Huh. So how do you think it should work then? Like what is the best method? Because it sounds like, you know, if this New York City Pinball Championship, If the entries are $80, $90, $100, depending on when you sign up, I'm assuming that most people are going to sign up quick, get that cheaper entry. Will it sell out? No, no, no. I don't think it ever has. And I think they can take up to 400 or 500 people on that one. Oh, wow. The problem with Sanctum is they only have limit for 100 people. Yeah, and Free Gold Watch is a teeny venue, which is also why they limit the entries to that tournament. So it's the same issue Pinberg had just on a smaller scale. You had more than a thousand people who wanted to play in Pinberg. Yeah. At one point you just have to say, this is the limit. This is what we can physically do at this moment. And that's it. So they do it a different way instead of what Pinberg, you know, and everyone else was doing beforehand, where it was just first in, first paid. You know, there's your number. It's now, you know, hey, we're going to give it hopefully a fair shake for everyone. I would just hate, like, if I was going, like, say I was planning to go to a carpool with Ron. Or maybe Zach. Like, hey, Zach, you're going with me? Yeah, we're going to go together. Oh, I didn't make it. You're going by yourself now, Zach. Fuck!
    51:24
    Wow, you wouldn't offer to drive him and be a nice guy? No. Wow. Very honest. It's a fun place. Sounds like a fun place. I want to go to District 82 now after last... Eric runs a tight, great ship, and he just put, that tournament just went on sale. It sold out. Wow. That's incredible. Okay, anyways, sorry. Now we can talk about games we hate and love. Okay, so what's first?
    51:54
    I think I want to talk about the game that I, look, it's like, I'm sure you guys get this all the time. You're like, oh, you do pinball, or what's your favorite game? I like pinball, too. What's your favorite game? It's different all the time, right? Correct. No. Okay. So, okay, so fill me in, because it's been a while. Maybe I haven't heard you guys argue about this, but Bruce, right now, favorite game? Stars, still. It's brutal, it's fun, it's fast. It changed its day to day. What is it today, right now, 8 over 9 p.m.? What did I play recently? I'm really AFMing it lately. Man, yeah, I think that would be my Desert Island game. But if you had to ask, since you are asking me right now, I think it's Whirlwind. Whirlwind is probably one of the games that I love the most. There's something about the perfect choreography of that game. Maybe I would argue it is Pat Lawler's finest. I definitely agree with that one. Yeah, it is. There's a combination to me. I'm a musician, and the audio is really important to me in games. And there is something about the music that Chris Granner wrote for that game and all the sounds and the way that when the ball hits targets or you hit the right shot, it rewards you audibly. All the shots feel great. It is such a simple game to kind of understand, you know, for a new player. I don't know. There's something really magical about that game where every time I step up to a whirlwind, I just get really into it. I don't know, you know, just nailing that highway, that skyway toll ramp over and over and over and over again. And when you dial it in, you hit it ten times in a row. It just makes you feel like a champion between the audio and knowing what rewards you're about to get or when you drain the ball, right? And I'm not very good at pinball. So maybe I think most good people can sit there and fucking max that Skyway toll out in one ball. But, you know, to me, there's something about that game. Games that I hate, this is more arbitrary, but I don't like Whitewater. I don't know why people like Whitewater so much. I'm sorry I think we got a problem with the signal It's fading It's not Every pinball game is good You can't tell me that there are bad pinball games Thunderbirds Motordome I'd rather play Motordome than Thunderbirds Let's pretend Thunderbirds doesn't exist But, like, if we were in a shitty bar somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and we had money in our pockets, and there was a spy hunter sitting in the corner, you're telling me that you wouldn't play that game? I play it once I play it once Right But the thing is my desert island game and it always has been is Whitewater Look I just don understand I don't know why people like it so much. It's just kind of right over my head.
    54:58
    Is he a wiener? I think he's a wiener. The combos, the sounds, the stealing of the, you know, once somebody, let's say if you lock two balls and a guy comes up to you and locks all three balls, you've got to re-lock those balls again even though it is, that's what I like about it plus it's a really hard wizard mode see, those go over my head because I can't achieve wizard modes other than on cloud itself you can fix the machine that has a good wizard mode see?
    55:27
    you could get to the wizard mode and scare us yeah, and same thing in Star Trek, just start the mode and let it time out and start the mode you've got to really get one shot But, yes, you could do it that way. You can go to Kobayashi Maru. Yes, you could. I also, I'm not a big fan of, like, no good gophers. Maybe that's more of a possibility.
    55:46
    A lot of people don't like that game, but I kind of like to tell people I don't like white water just to get their reactions like that. I'm sorry.
    55:53
    This episode will never be heard or seen on the Internet ever again. Thank you very much. What game do you hate? I really hate Attack from Mars. I really hate it. Editing your AFM. Yeah. If I want that reaction, I just ask Zach. Ask our Zach, because he hates everything good. Yes, he does. Like Star Trek Next Generation, he hates that. Well, I understand why people hate that game. I mean, there's a... Come on, those outlanes are insane. I'm sorry, the slingshots. They are awesome! It breaks a lot, too. Zach hates everything. Well, no, Zach has a whirlwind, so he would totally agree with you. Well, look, I like old games a lot more than anything, but, you know, I'm more of a Valley kind of guy. I love Vector. That game sucks, but it's so good. I love Vector.
    56:45
    No, I mean, look, nothing is perfect, maybe other than Attack from Mars, but I like crappy, funny games, right? X's and O's. I'm sorry, not X's and O's. I have a Kings of Steel. Kings of Steel! Kings of right target. It's a fun game to get competitive on. It's weird. I kind of like games that are... I like that early 80s Bally game where there's three or four things to do. Like on Xenon, you want to go for that ramp, and do you want to raise your moda bonus to obscene levels, or do you want to just go for multi-balls? No, just get on the ramp. Just ramp all day. But maybe that just goes to show what kind of a player I am, which is a bad one. Vector does suck, but they did throw the kitchen sink at that game as far as they created some fictional sport. Yeah, and created their own terminology of macro power. You know, they made a bizarre timer thing where it times how fast you hit a ramp. New Vector record. It's so cool. I think I talked to Greg Ferris about that a couple years ago. He told me, I mean, this is probably a relatively well-known story, but there were a couple of ballet games at that time that were, he calls it, designed by committee. Yeah, that was a committee one. Vector was a committee one. It was just weird. He was telling me someone really was getting into, or was into high lie. You know that weird sport? Yeah. Yeah, and that's what Vector was based off of. It's future high lie with weird motorcycle skates. I don't know. But it was hard for me to answer that question, though, guys. I love all pinball. They're all fun. I am a play analysis computer for your vector game plan. I mean, just all the quotes in that. Hit the showers. Like, what? Yeah. What?
    58:38
    Open one of those things up and push the little test button on the spot. And it just talks for, like, three minutes. It's so funny. It does. I remember that, yes. They put everything they could into that game. That was their last attempt before the cross-cutting. We're just going to throw everything into this game. Oh, it only sold 2,000? Well, that's not going to work. Let's cut the crap out of everything now. Or we need to get rid of play fields. We don't care if the game sells. Spectrum! Yeah. Yeah, God. I owned one of those for a while. It's such a gorgeous game, but it's just so boring. Yeah, Mastermind. But Zach loves it. Oh, it's a great, but I mean, I think isn't the way to keep the game just to continue shooting the scoops and, like, with the sauce, you're not actually playing Mastermind, right? Exactly. If you could somehow program that out so you actually had to memorize all the colors and all that, yeah, it would be more interesting. It would be very interesting. It would be interesting, but it would never sell because it would be way too much thinking. Yes. People would be like, what the hell? This is way too complicated.
    59:36
    Yeah, I think some of those games did get too complicated, in my opinion. I mean, like, you've got a game which is incredible. Perfect art package, great play field, but Medusa. It's really hard to teach someone how to play that game, even though it's relatively simple. I think when the typeface on instruction cards starts getting into like the 8 and 6 point typeface, that's when the games started to get a little too much, you know. For her at that time, you know, they weren't able to communicate as well as a new game. The skill shot is very hard on that game. The skill shot is the whole game, really. If you even understand what those lights mean and what you're supposed to do on the skill shot, how you're supposed to time it. No. But, you know, also you can just play Medusa and nail a bunch of drop targets and have fun at the same time. So, whatever. All pinball's fun. They're all great. And zipper flippers, except Thunderbirds, but yes. Yes, you're right. They're all great.
    60:31
    Oh, man. I don't know. All those years playing at Pinberg, there's a lot of EMs that really suck. Oh, there are. Yeah. And a lot of that suck in the same ways, too. Very samey, sucking. Yeah. At one game, I've turned down multiple for free in Chicago Coins Dolphin. I feel bad hating on that game so much, but, man, it sucks. It really does suck. It does. Have you ever played Dolphin? I have. Yeah. It's not good. It sucks. It's not good? Okay, hold on. I have to look at this. Go ahead. Yeah, look it up. You'll see it. When you see it, you'll know it. I used to go to the Pacific Pinball Expo all the time. Is this one of the EMs they had? I don't think we had a dolphin. Or if we do, I never set it up on purpose.
    61:19
    But it's just, it looks like it should be fun because it's got those captive balls with the scoop, but it just sucks. There's nothing fun to do on it. No, there's nothing fun to do on it.
    61:29
    Which is unfortunate. It's almost like a strata flight in some ways. It's so boxy and square. Don't mention that game. What's the other version of that game? The replay version. Oh, I understand. Stuff and Fight. Yeah. Because I kind of like that game. No. Wrong answer. Oh, man. You're never going to put this episode out. Oh, man. But, yeah, no. Dolphin's pretty bad. So it's got three captive balls, and you hit them into saucers.
    61:58
    Yep. And it's got dolphins. Yes. Yeah. And there's nothing else except for... Yeah, it's very super symmetrical and looks quite boring. Yeah, it's very boring. It's very bad.
    62:10
    There are some symmetrical games, I'll argue, that are not bad. I think I'm trying to count down. Count down. That's symmetrical? Huh. Yeah. Yeah, it is.
    62:20
    Interesting. Even Pinball Pool. Pinball Pool is what I was going to say. Pinball Pool is one of my favorite games. Yeah, and it's very symmetrical. All right. If you've ever gamed yourself, good job.
    62:31
    There's a Gottlieb game I'm trying to remember the name of. We have a game we have at our place at RPC. We're on... Mini Pool. Yeah. That's a special game. Great game. Mini Pool and Target Pool. That is one game that I will do dirty things to get a hold of one day. And I prefer to have Mini Pool because there's something about an... That game is an add-a-ball, which is really fun. Better artwork, too. Yes. Yeah, because it's like some... What did that meeting go like, right? Well, we're going to make a new game. It's going to be pool-themed again. Okay. Well, what's the back glass going to be? Now, make it like a Wisconsin Lake vacation house. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    63:10
    It's so weird. But for people who've never played this game, it's a two-flipper game, and it's just a stand-up target sniping game, a two-inch flipper game that is a target sniping game. And in an add-a-ball capacity, it's quite fun because there's a bank of ten targets right in the middle of the play field where you can nail them to add balls, but it's like a suicide shot. So there's a lot of risk-reward. I love that game.
    63:37
    But you look at this, you know, and you look at what Chicago Coin put out, that in 74 was mostly rifle games.
    63:48
    They put out gold records a year after, which is a, let me look at it. I haven't seen, I don't even. Yeah, they put out Dolphin in 1974, the same year Gottlieb put out Far Out. Yeah. And a much better game. Yeah, so, you know. It was pretty bad. If pinball was easy, every game would be a hit, right? Yeah. A lot of those games were just copy and paste, some of them. They were. A lot of them just looked very samey. Actually, even Bally in, like, the late 70s. Yeah, it was very early. It's like two orbit spinners or one orbit spinner goes up to some saucer at the top. Yeah. Drop targets, you know, on both sides. Inline drop targets, got to have inline drop targets on one side. Well, at least some of them were more original. But, yeah, a lot of them were just the same. Hit it up top, hit it up top, hit it up top, hit it up top. Yeah, especially those first couple. I mean, especially with the first solid savings, right? Yeah. They were so. Well, that's, indeed, that's, again, why I love your guys' taste in games. The early Stern games are so innovative and unique, you know, compared to a lot of those early ballet games which were basically might as well have just been an EM actually I got to talk to a guy at MGC I had a nine ball that I fixed for Dan Lusin who is the show runner there and I just powered it on and kind of started flipping and he's like can I play this game like yeah of course he's like Steve Kirk used to live in my basement you know and then my ears just kind of went like okay yeah I gotta talk to this guy and you know he was telling me a story about how every time Steve Kirk would kind of fall on hard times, he would end up coming and staying in this gentleman's basement and lived with him for years at a time sometimes. It was kind of neat to hear the very sad story involving Steve Kirk, but just a brilliant pinball designer.
    65:44
    Ahead of his time. Definitely. He was still around, man. He handed out the autographs to shows, that's for sure. Oh, absolutely. And the same game as your dolphin? Oh, no, it's like I just found it. Hold on, I just found it. They made another version of it. Oh, God.
    66:03
    Showtime. Showtime is the four-player version of that game of Dolphin. You mean they didn't call it like Flipper or Shark? No, Showtime. Some other type of aquatic animal. Dolphin was the two-player and Showtime was the four-player. Yeah, well, it just goes to show just how far ahead Gottlieb was in making great games. I mean, think, like, in 74, you had, like, Top Card and High Hand and, like, Abra-Tadabra, 300, Quick Draw. Those were all in that era, right? Eldorado, right? Like, that's crazy. I don't know. Maybe that's also why Sam and Gary Stern were able to buy Chicago Coin for so cheap to start their own pinball company. There you go. It was because of Dolphin. Yeah, Dolphin ruined it for them all. Dolphin was the key. It was so bad. They just lost so much money, and they got bought. And then a good company came about. Yeah, okay. No, that's the new history. That's the new history we just made. We just made it. I like that. Okay, I'm sure Chicago Coin made some good games. Who knows? They might have made some of the great, frightful games of all time. They did. Okay. They did. I don't want anyone getting pissed. No, they did. They also, I mean, lots of their amusement company, or equipment was really good. But Dolphin began the downfall, and then, boom, there you go. we just made the mystery. That'll be on the next Build-A-Ball Chronicles. How Dolphin created... No. Yeah, the April 1st edition next year. Yes, April 1st. Yeah. Does anyone do a thing where the podcast hosts move to other shows for April 1st? I think that would be fun. Oh, that'd be kind of cool. Yeah. Like, somebody takes over our show? Yeah. I think it would be easier for something like on the Pinball Network just because they're all on the Pinball Network so they could just swap around and stuff. I don't know. Well, no. we swap out with the loser kids, and they can swear on our show, and we can't swear on theirs. Ooh. Oh, that would be really tough. That would be really tough, but I think we could do it. And they wouldn't be able to do this, the ball bag. You ready for the ball bag? The ball bag. I hate when the ball bag can't be used. The male ball bag. Here we go, Bruce. All right, ready. Some of these came in around the time we recorded the last one, so we kind of missed them. So this is from Jeremy. Hi, Jeremy. He says, hi, Bruce and Ron, Jeremy here from Pinball Mayhem. I enjoy the latest podcasts and stories from Allentown. I will hopefully be going for the first time next year. I love a good swap meet. Oh, it is totally a swap meet. I will make my first visit to Expo this year, looking forward to experiencing this show and meeting people. You'll meet Ron. And he goes on to say that he has Gottlieb 7-digit displays, Bruce. I know he does. I know. I have to talk to him. Bruce, you have to talk to him about those Gottlieb 7-digit displays. I will, I promise. It's been a busy week. And he's with Pinball Mayhem. Check them out. They have YouTube videos. They do streaming. I think he streamed Bride of Pinbot the other night. They do pinball repair, gameplay. They're on YouTube and Twitch. That's Pinball Mayhem. Check them out. Mm-hmm. Anywhere that's got pinball repair, you've got to check that out because stuff breaks. I was going to say the shit breaks, and then I stopped myself. And I'm thinking, why did I do that? Wow, very nice. What was the point there? I don't understand. Okay.
    69:25
    Tim. Not since I've been, but another Tim. Hello, gentlemen. I just wanted to mention. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Gentlemen. Stop. Yeah. Sorry.
    69:35
    Okay. I'll email it. Hello, gentlemen, and Ron and Bruce. Because Kyle will be a gentleman. I just wanted to mention that a lot of people take games to Allentown so they can enter the show on Thursday. They want first dibs on purchasing a game. I've heard numerous people say that if you don't get in Thursday, you will miss out on some games. Plus, a lot of people take their crappy games just to get early entrance. That will be changing, I think, next year. I really enjoy your show. I always look forward to your new episodes. Thank you, Tim. So there you go, because I was questioning, what's the point of bringing just to get in for free? Third, yeah. But if you can get in that day early. Yes, you get all the deals. Yeah. there's a lot of them to be had. Yes, there is. Okay, this next one, this is actually the last one. This will empty out the ball bag. There you go.
    70:26
    This is from Zach. Are there 30,000 Zachs in the ball? There must have been a popular name when all these kids were... Well, they all conceived on pinball machines, and that's what happened. They all became Zachs. Oh, my.
    70:43
    This is Zach. He has a show called Pinball Tapes on the Pinball Network. I highly recommend it. It's like, for me, it's like pinball ASMR.
    70:53
    He will go over a single game from the ground up, talking about the game, the play field, the music, all that, while playing clips from the game, all done in a very soothing Australian accent because he's from Australia. Okay. Is it audio or is it a video? It's audio. Okay. Yep. But it says, Zach, from the pinball tapes here, hope you've been staying safe and sane. Well, one of those. Neither. Neither for you. You're not safe or safe. Primarily, I just wanted to say I truly enjoy your podcast. There's something undefinably great about your no-fucks-given and informed perspective that I genuinely love. Thank you. That's the story of my life. This is why we need to move to Australia.
    71:42
    We would just fit in. You would be rock stars down there. Aren't we already? I think we are, but, I mean, if we walked around, it would be like, we'd be getting paparazzi after us and everything like that. It would be cool. We'd get chicks. We'd be all. Okay, very good. That fact also, the fact that you guys are technically savvy really floats my boat. Excellent work indeed.
    72:06
    So, I'm just going to lay it out there. I've recently bought and restored a 1978 Stern Starves. And, oh, my God, I think I finally know what love is. It is because of you two that I have taken this unloved orphan and gave it the time of day. I know the running gag amongst the pinball community is that you've single-handedly raised the price of Stern electronic games. But I reckon you're really on to something. I've only had it playable for a few weeks, but the rule set variation and kinetic satisfaction, especially ripping those spinners, oh yeah, I've been getting is just superb. It's very difficult to find these ilk of games in South Australia, but I found a local collector who slowly lets his games go back into the wild.
    72:50
    When stars came up, your adoration for this game was ringing in my ears, and it made me take the plunge. Anywho, I've just started a podcast that has recently become part of TPN, the Thin Ball Network. The Porn Network, I call it. Oh, jeez.
    73:05
    And it is about focusing on a single game and doing a deep dive into its history, design, and vibe of the game as a whole. As far as deep dives goes, at this stage, it's helpful to either own them or at least have them in my possession for a while. So basically, S.T.A.R.S. is going to have an episode coming up. official game in a slam-chill podcast. I love it. Yes, it is. I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I would love the opportunity to interview you both about this amazing game. Oh, my. And he goes on about more stuff he was thinking about doing with his episode, so I don't really want to give it away, what he wants to do. We would be honored. I already spoke for Ron.
    73:50
    I already spoke for Ron. We would be honored, yes? We just have to figure out a time when available. Contact us at... Yes. Well, he already emailed. He emailed us, Bruce. So he already knows it. But if other people want to contact us because they want to interview celebrities that we are, you can contact us at slamtellpodcasts at gmail.com. Ron or I will give you our phone number, and we'll return your... And we'll get in touch with you, and hopefully we'll have some good fun. He says, again, love your work and let me know if you'd be interested. Sure we would. I have many questions already and hope to feed off your extended knowledge at some stage regardless. Cheers, Zach. Cheers. That was very eloquent. That was beautiful. That was very eloquent. I put a tear to my eye. You really did. Let's just do a podcast. It's very eloquent also. I will have to. What was the name of his podcast one more time? Pinball Tapes. Okay. Tapes. I just sent you guys a link. in the chat. Oh boy. It's not going to be dirty, is it? No, it's not. Not at all. Oh. It's my TPTV. Uh-huh. It's the best game ever. Big Flipper. Flipper. Oh my God.
    75:06
    Uh, it looks really bad. It's got a ball saver in the middle between. It's got the pop-up. It literally says ball saver and big tap saver. Ball saver. Like Championship Pub has. You mean the Champion Pub. The Champion Pub. Come on. With our reputation, we can't get game names wrong. No, no, no. If I had Silver Ball Chronicles, then I'd be really fucking up, but I don't have that. I'm not worthy. I was chosen, but I was ignored. Wait a minute. How can you be chosen and ignored? I was chosen, and then they settled on you. I like your first comment there. I was chosen, then ignored. Yes, you were. That makes no sense. It was, because I would have done it. Okay. You would have been in glory with me. Glory. Okay. But the four-inch flippers on this game are awesome. Yes. They're actually called... Jungle Flippers. Trademark. You know what's funny, too, is look at the date when this game was made, too. 1970, January 10th. So before even the advent of the three-inch flipper, Chicago Coin was giving us four-inch flippers. So you know what? Maybe they did have something. The cowboy. Oh, it was also the same. The cowboy back last at least looks better. Oh, yeah, that four-inch flipper. Just, ugh. And there's really nothing on this game. No, it's totally symmetrical. What do you shoot with the flippers? I guess you go up top, and then you go into pop bumpers, and then you do it again. Oh, God. And you hit the center shot, and you get the bonus score.
    76:42
    Remember that thing that Kyle said about there are no bad games, you know? That looks like a bad one. No, this is a bad game. But it has four-inch flippers. Where else are you going to go back? Jumbo flippers. And they have a lot of hair. Ew. You can't say hot hand, because hot hand, you can't flip that flip. Damn it, I was going to say hot hand. Yeah.
    77:01
    Hot hand, I wonder if they just had a bunch of extra of those things in the factory that they bought. Oh, yeah. They probably did. We figured it out. Like, where did they get that match? Easy. It was from all the jumbo flippers they didn't sell. What I laugh about is if you look at the comparison photo on the IPDB, and look where the mech moves. There's actually something in the middle of that jumbo flipper because it's actually got a slot in the play field. Okay. Oh, huh. Look at that. The art sucks, too. Oh, the art's terrible. But, I mean, that slot in the middle of the play field where the flipper, in the middle of the flipper, it's just awesome. I wonder what's underneath there. I'd love to see what's underneath. I don't see what's underneath. I wonder if it's just a nail. just to hold the flipper mechanism. Did you see who took some of these pictures? No. Mark Steinman. I don't remember Pauver ever having this.
    77:55
    Yeah, I don't know either. Maybe they did, and they were like, no, we can't do this to people. We just can't. That would be great in a tournament. Wouldn't this have been awesome in a tournament? Yes. Duncan Brown put the promotional picture out for this too.
    78:11
    He's the friend of the show? He's never been on the show. But he's a friend of the show because you bought a Pimmo machine from him. Yeah, I got Stargazer from him, so he's a friend of mine.
    78:20
    Who picked up that Stargazer with you? You did. You got it. Uh-huh. Good man. He's a friend of the show. Uh-huh.
    78:28
    Oh, man. How many Stargazers do you have now, Bruce? Two. It's not the one and a half or two and three quarters? It is a one and a half. Okay. And Ron has one also. All right. Good to see you there. Everyone needs a Stargazer in their life. We have two and a half cheetahs. Between both of you, you have every game, right? Except for maybe the real uncommon ones. No, we don't have Iron Maiden. We don't have... I believe I have played every game. And that was thanks to, actually, the Pacific Pinball Museum.
    79:02
    That's the year we had all of the Stern games together, right? I have the video. That's one of my videos on my old, my individual YouTube channel. Gizmonic, you literally can watch. I go through in order, starting at, was it Rawhide or Stampede? The one that was half Chicago coin, half Stern, and then just go all the way around.
    79:26
    The only one they didn't have, they were missing, they didn't have a Gametron. But that's, you could argue, you could argue that's not Stern. But they didn't have a Q. Yeah. Of course, we played Q at the Sanctum. Well, we did play Q, yes, at the Sanctum, and realized why they didn't make any. It's such a nudgy game. I've never, I think that one and, I mean, Laser Lord kind of doesn't count, but I've never played either of those. Yeah, Laser Lord is it. We've got to play that someday. It was in Michigan last I knew. Who has it? Some dude in Michigan had it last I knew. Ah. Yep. That was a whole story. Yeah, it was somewhat a plumber at someone's house, saw it, bought it, went to Pinside and said, like, how much do you think this is worth? What is this? And everyone was like, oh, shit. Oh, my God. And it blew away the whole history of what everyone thought happened. And, like, no one knew this existed because there was a Laser Lord that Stern did in 1984, but it was a rethemed Quicksilver that they just brought to a show. Yep. And they did a flyer for it. So everyone thought that was Laser Lord. And that was bought by someone. That was on eBay years ago. So everyone got to see that one. You know, it actually existed. And, oh, there it is. Okay. But then this thing came up. It says Laser Lord on it. And it's obviously a white wood. And it's a white body. It's in a Viper cabinet. It's got JoJo's signature on the freaking thing. We're like, what the hell is this? What the hell? And the whole history of it, that would have been the game after Orbiter 1. Yep. And they shut down the pinball division, and it just never got made. and then they repurposed the back glass because it's the same back glass and rethemed the Quicksilver with the Laser Lord artwork.
    81:14
    Someone bought it and they supposed they were getting it working. It still had the ROMs in it. It was somewhat playable from what I heard. Now, I have a question. Wow. Duncan Brown put all these pictures on. Did Duncan buy it? No, he went to the guy's place. Oh, okay. Because he was in Michigan and it was close to where Duncan lived at the time. Okay. So, yeah, he went there and took all the pictures. That's good at least So there you go Damn Yeah I don't have enough old Stern games I need more I have a Meteor That's a good one And I have 15 16ths Of a Sea Witch I think I'm only missing the back Arch rail but I think that's generic Between a lot of games so I might just make that And then I can put it together Have either of you guys been to Musee Mechanique in San Francisco No No It is an antique coin arcade So dude has like coin moving dioramas from like the turn of the century and the 19-teens and 20s and stuff, amongst other interesting coin-operated things, right? But his dad's owned an arcade his entire life, and his favorite game that they ever bought, His entire 40-something years of working in an arcade was a stern sea witch. He liked that game so much, he went to take C.A. Robinson in San Francisco and ordered another playfield for it. And when I started talking to Dan, I used to work there and, you know, moonlight and just get some work done at night, make some extra money. And when I told him, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm working on a sea witch. I've got a cabinet, no head, and all this stuff. And he's like, do you have a playfield? And I was like, uh-uh. Well, yes, but what do you have? and he's like, I've got a new old stock sea witch place. And that was my payment for a certain bit of work for him. But it's really neat to see, you know, it's all dimpled perfectly. And unfortunately, it has some storage damage. So I really want to send it off to, what's his face, a cruiseman and have him do little touch-ups and clear coat it nicely. And that's what I'll build my sea witch with.
    83:22
    Yes. Nice. But, yeah, anyways, I had a quick silver once and I scrapped it because it... Here, the whole internet, you want to hate me? This was like 2012, but it was more termites lived in there than I could probably ever count, and it was stored in a damp barn. There was not very much Quicksilver left, so this was before a lot of these parts were available, so we had to take it and scrap it, make it into something new. A lot of those parts have moved on to save other games, But thinking back on that 10 years ago, I would have slapped myself silly for doing that. But I still have it back. We forgive you. Yeah, just say three Hail Marys and repent.
    84:10
    There were holes in the play field. It was just, you know, all the plies were separated. There was no color on it. It was so sad. But that's my claim to getting hated on the Internet is scrapping a Quicksilver 10 years ago. It doesn't take much to get hated. On the internet, yeah. We're way there.
    84:30
    Wow, that's a shocker, you know. I would have kept at least the transformer. Oh, no, no, I kept all that. No, no, no, every single part got kept. I still have bits of that wiring harness that I use to repair damaged stern wiring harnesses, so I have the exact same color wires and stuff like that. Oh, wow, there you go. We built a wildfire for that Pacific Pinball Expo. I think we used some parts from that Quicksilver to build that Wildfire to get that last stirring game we didn't have. It all lives on. Unfortunately, you've just got to treat your pinball games right. Don't store them in barns. Do not let mice eat the entire game. And then it's worth $5,000. Oh, yeah. We don't need to think about that. Jeez.
    85:16
    So what do you think of the pricing trend now going up and up and up and up? It makes me sad, but it also makes me... These games are worth... It's such an interesting bit of American culture. They're really special. They really do represent a bit of the American zeitgeist and what was going on. And they deserve to be desired. But the problem is now is it's definitely a rich man's sport. I can't afford to buy pinball games anymore. But, look, I mean, I sold a lot of my WPC games when I had bought them for $1,500, and people were offering me $3,000, and I laughed all the way to the bank, and I've never been able to buy any of those things back. You never got it. So, that being said, it's, you know, I guess the thing that disturbs me less than the price is this pinball machine is a Tiffany egg. and needs to be treated with silk gloves and kept under a cover and stuff like that. That's the thing that really pieves me more than the price, really. Because if we don't have people like you and all of your pals in Rochester that put those games into the collective or other people like, you know, people that maybe have too many games at home and now they're, you know, operating it at their favorite brewery. If it wasn't for people like you, people would forget about pinball. And that's the scary thing. If I were a rich man You know what though You can look at it this way You'll always be able to buy a dolphin There you go We'll see Maybe I would like to buy a split second That went up for sale I am first on the split second list I know a guy in Nevada that has one, but he wants a little too much money for it.
    87:13
    Hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry. Whoever did the soundboard for that game, they deserve the giant pat on the back. They're amazing. What did they say in Freefall? Diver one, or what's the... Diver one, play plunge ball or something like that. It's weird, yeah. One of the best multi-ball sequences.
    87:37
    But, yeah, no It's weird how you see some of the Games now just keep on climbing and climbing And climbing, and You're going, why, you know Yeah, well, it's the games you never Would have expected to be worth tons of money Either, you know, Pinbot's perpetually A $1,200 game in my mind, and now You know, anything that has an Alphanumeric display is like a $3,000 Game in minimum, you know Dude, look at all those, you know, it's like Oh my god, really? You couldn't give those Things away. I know No Fears, 800 bucks. You're like, I couldn't sell my No Fear for $1,200.
    88:12
    No Faded, No Fear for $1,200. People were trying to undercut me to $1,000. I'm like, no. Now, look, it's $3,000. Easy.
    88:21
    And I don't know. You know, it's like, are they worth that? I think so. Oh, yeah. I think they are, too. But at the same time, you know, I don't know. I feel like an old man waving my cane on my porch or something. Back in my day, it's like, you know. Get off my lawn!
    88:36
    It wasn't like that, but it's fine. It's fine. It's just as long as we can still have them in the public and we only have to pay 50 cents to a dollar at a time to play them, you know? That's the one thing about pinball, is even if you can't afford a $3,000, $6,000, $10,000 toy, you can still enjoy it for a dollar. Mm-hmm. Sort of, if people put them on location, you know, but... If they do, yes, totally. All right. Let's finish this up with repairs.
    89:04
    Repairs. Hmm. I have incoming repairs, I think. Uh-oh. Here's the deal. At the local. The local yokel.
    89:14
    The place by me that we've talked about. They had even more games come in. I don't know if you saw them. There's a. Yes, I did. We're in. And a Bad Girls. Yes. Bad Girls. Yes. Oh, it was a big hit at league night, by the way. Everyone liked when he got the eight ball and he just started, bay, bay, bay, bay, bay, bay. Everyone's dancing. And it was great. Everyone loves bad girls. But the monster bash that's there, it's the remake, and the flippers are just so weak at this point. The guy who owns the place, I guess he doesn't want to pay for the parts.
    89:51
    I wish it's like it's just money comes in and he thinks it's like a slot machine. The guy who owns the place, his company, it's Bill Kurtz. That name might sound somewhat familiar to you, Bruce. He was the original guy that started. Before it was Mike Pacek and Rob Burke, it was Bill Kurtz and Rob Burke, like the first one or two Expos. Huh. So he's an Ohio native, but he lives, like, in Florida now. And I guess he is at multiple locations, but the one in my area is the first one that's catered towards adults. The other ones are more towards children. Mm-hmm. So a lot of the games are his, but Mike asked, like, can we get a, like, rebuild kit? And Mike, the guy who runs our league, can we get a rebuild kit for this? And he doesn't want to pay for anything. So Mike was going to use his own rebuild kit. And I'm like, really, dude? I don't know if I, I was like, I'll install it for you if you want to. But I could have swore there was some kind of secret menu in those games. And I couldn't figure out how to get into it on Thursday when we had league. But since then, I've actually, I saw a video on how to do it. You like hold down the escape button. because it's got the standard Williams four-button test thing. You just hold the escape button down, and then you get into another menu where flipper power is one of the options. Yes, it is. So I'm curious when I go in there, does someone turn it down, or can I just crank it up all the way? So even with the weaker flippers, maybe they'll work. Or do I want to just actually rebuild them? You want to rebuild them. And then I also need to upgrade Godzilla and Rush again. Are they connected? Are they online? They're online. Well, yes and no. They have Wi-Fi, but they're not on Insider Connected, and the Wi-Fi there is so bad. At 10 gig, it would take a day and a half probably to download the update for Rush.
    91:41
    Excellent. So I just put them on thumb drives and bring them there. They update pretty quick. So that tells me that place is destined to fail in about eight to ten months. I hope not. It's going to if you get that attitude of not wanting to put any money into it. Yeah, as a location Maybe as the operator, right? I mean, he's the owner, they're his games They're his games He doesn't want to put a flipper kit into it Yeah You know, just a little education You know, kill them with kindness And tell them why they need to do this He wrote a pinball book with Gary Flower So he knows about pinball So, yeah He doesn't understand the upkeep and operation and I'm assuming that. He's got other locations. I can't see how. I don't get it. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I don't get that either. So any repairs elsewise for you, Mr. Ron?
    92:38
    No. All my stuff's been working pretty good. Wow. I've been working on the games. The games? Which one? The games.
    92:47
    Okay, more than one. But which games? It's called the Gottlieb The Games. Yeah, Gottlieb makes good games. Yeah, which games? The games. We're going to do this every week, Bruce. I think so. Okay. Just like pinball. Yeah, that was another terrible. Well, Pacific Pinball Expo, they had both of them. Yes, they did. BM and Solid State. So what have you done to the games, Bruce? Did you ever find a backlash for it? Not yet. I'm still looking. So if people backlash the games, I need one. That is a priority. I got a new power supply from Marco Specialties. Oh, wow. And I put it in, and it did exactly the same thing as the old one did. Oh, boy. I had a bad display shipped on one of the displays for the 6118P chip. It was shorted. And it was drawing over two amps. It probably didn't blow the fuse, but it didn't. But it would kill the power for the 60 volts, so I had no displays. As soon as I got the bad display, I now have gibberish on my displays. So my first part was, well, I'll just redo all the connectors on the Gottlieb displays because usually that is a major problem. And you love redoing connectors anyway. Yeah, I just love it. I'm on the last one, and so I'm like, oh, let's see what I did. I put the one in, junk. Put the other one in, junk. I'm like, son of a bitch. So luckily we have another seven-digit display game for Gottlieb at the co-op.
    94:15
    Brack them up. So I took one of the other displays that I had in my game, put it in a rack-em-up. It's perfect. Wait a minute, you put it into rack-em-up? Yes, and it works perfectly. The display works perfectly, not gibberish. In rack-em-up, okay. Yes. I got you. So now I have to probably do the connectors off the board, the J2 and the J3 connectors.
    94:35
    Yeah. If it's not that. If it's that, then it's something you chip inside. But the weird thing about Gottliebs is 1 and 3 and 2 and 4 are different chips. So I think it's a connector issue more than anything else. If you wiggle the connectors or, you know. Doesn't change. No, I didn't try the ones on the board yet. Yeah, maybe try there. You know, something, I mean, you know this, but for people that don't know, right, edge connectors. 25 times, that's it. It's the, sometimes the pins themselves can become depressed. And when they do not make good contact with the circuit board, that's when you'll start to get some gibberish. So one way to really check that is to look inside the connector and make sure that that pin is blocking the entire window, if that makes sense, right? Make sure it's not compressed down super hard. Yep. If you can see little air gaps past it, then you know you're in trouble. Yeah. Yeah, so that's going to be our next challenge with that. Hot tip is almost working now, Ron. Mm-hmm. EM hot tip is almost up and running. You're just waiting for parts from PBR for a flipper rebuild kit and a re-rubber kit. Maybe by the 11th, when you're coming out for the year anniversary party at the Rochester Pinball Collective, you could be playing a hot tip EM. I love playing hot tip EM. It's the only way to play a hot tip. It is the only way. I don't think I've ever played an EM hot tip. It's faster, better, stronger, longer. Huge. How is it longer?
    96:04
    Does it have a jumbo flipper, Bruce? It makes you longer down there, so you get a little stronger. Oh, God. I'm going to have to come up sooner than later, Dennis. Oh, my. Come on.
    96:19
    And what else have we worked on? We're working on that. We're getting a gold strike for a customer. Coming along just now, waiting for the parts from PBR.
    96:29
    And heavy metal meltdown. I finally got it booted. Surprise, surprise. Now it's putting the play field all together that JT took apart. The guy we know, JT. D. Harrison, yes. He took the whole play field apart on the top side. Great. That's always my favorite. Oh, yes. You did this. You can finish it, right? I started this. You can finish it, right? I took this apart. Here's a box of hearts. Hopefully it's all there. Thanks. Good luck.
    96:59
    Oh, man. Spectrum is getting re-rubbered, and then we're waiting on the parts for volley. Oh, your brake switch or whatever? I remember from last episode. I remember that episode, too. You were talking about that. That's so strange. Why was that gone? I couldn't tell you. Just like the third or fourth EM from Gottlieb, we've seen the brake switch being missing. And on one of the games at the one at Goldstrike, we're repairing for a customer. Gone, too. And it's acting weird. That's really bizarre. Yep. It is very bizarre. So if anyone has ideas of why brake switches are missing on Golly Games, give us a heads up why people did that. They repurposed them for some other switch? I don't know. Did you ever ask Steve? No, I never asked Steve Young. You just email him. You don't talk to him. Oh, I talk to Steve Young like once a week. Well, because I work with him.
    98:00
    That's exactly why. I love talking to Steve. The problem with Steve is if he thinks you don't know what you're talking about, you're down. You're down. It counts. Yeah. I know Steve will never listen to this, but sometimes Steve just won't stop talking. I get the opposite of what a lot of people complain about, but sometimes he just wants to chat. And it's great, you know, when you can get someone like Steve to start telling you stories. Oh, man, it's great. I love hearing what he has to say. Now we've got to invite Steve onto the show. Oh, God. Man, I've already asked him. I've already asked him, you know, hey, if I ever come up to Poughkeepsie, it's like, can I just put a tape recorder down and talk? And he's like, man, it's like, no. It's like, I'd love to talk, but I don't want anything on tape. I was like, okay, I respect that. Hey, maybe you have better luck than I will. Well, I remember when Steve Young used to do shows. What does that tell you?
    98:55
    Probably before I went to pinball shops. Yeah. He used to do Allentown religiously. He did Expo. He was at Expo. In the early, early days. Early, early days, yeah. Yes. Yep. And then all of a sudden, nope, no need. You can talk about parts for hours on end. Yes. And how to get your right part number for everything that you need to buy from them. You have to buy the manual from me first. Yes, you do.
    99:20
    Hey, we can rag on that. We can rag on that all day long. But, yo, we're talking about repairs. Have a manual for everything you have. Just always do. Because it's people who fix them. It's great. And second, I don't care how many times you tell me you have it on your phone or on your laptop, that shit sucks. A real manual is great, big print, you can look and touch and feel. Especially EMs. Yes, absolutely. Especially EMs. I will say, I always preferred PBRs. So even for a WPC game, I would like getting a manual from PBR, because his manuals were spiraled down on the originals, so they're actually much easier to use than the originals are. I totally agree with that one. Totally agree. Totally. But yeah, those are some fun repairs. I don't have any fun repairs going on, really. What? What? I'm working on a surf champ for a customer right now, which is quite nice. It's a decent surf champ. For some reason, someone desecrated it by spray painting the front of the cabinet and the front of the head blue. But otherwise, it's a pretty decent game. It had a really interesting Wicco, we don't trust the people that fix the game with money kit installed into it. It had these two gigantic funnels under the coin mechs that would then empty into a large coin safe that was mounted underneath the game. So the person that had the keys to the coin door to service the game would not be able to access the coins without another key, which is neat because I've seen those in Wicco catalogs for years, and then I finally see one in real life. You're like, huh, okay. Personally, I have a huge pile of games I need to work on shit. When I went to Allentown last year, I bought two games.
    101:10
    What? What's in those games? I bought a Jungle Princess, which has been on my list forever, and a High Hand. Okay. I think it's High Hand or whatever the other version. It's the High Hand. It's not the addable. I haven't even touched it. Not Captain Clark. But I need to fix that game. I love both of those games. But otherwise, I just need to start working on projects. All my projects now, all my games that work on location, they work. Every game that I have at home mostly works. I've got big projects I need to do. I have a Dolly Parton that I need to do the whole thing. My Sea Witch project, which I've been projecting for seven years or six years. Don't talk about that. Yeah. But I've got a Baywatch I think I'm finally going to start working on. Mark Mandeltort, the fellow who owned Marco, sold me his Baywatch a year or so ago and had a bad DMD. I was working through all my parts, my boxes of spare parts, and I found a DMD that was marked, like, 2014 good question mark. And that's better than the one that I know that doesn't work in the game. And then when I was at the Golden State Pinball Festival, I bought another giant DMD that was known working. So now I have two. Yeah, you're on your way. I'm on my way. But, yeah, Baywatch, definitely one of my favorite scary games. It's a very good game. It's got a shark flipper. I know. Can't put a shark flipper. God. Every game needs a shark flipper or a jumbo flipper. Sure.
    102:42
    Do something so jumbo flipper. Maybe the game I'm working on needs to have a jumbo flipper. Hey, if anyone has a jumbo flipper and can model it in 3D so I can print it, please email these guys.
    102:58
    And then I'll make that happen. Amazing. It is amazing. You know what's also amazing? Our show. Our show is amazing, Bruce, isn't it? It is. Kyle, what would you like to plug? Oh, goodness. I'd like to plug the live stream that I do for Marco Pinball, Thursdays at 3 p.m. most of the time. We do Pintech Live, where I will teach you things about fixing pinball machines. And also, I appreciate it when people ask me questions. I can try to help you answer them as well. Yeah, it's fun. And also, the company I work for, Marco Pinball, we try to keep pinball stuff in stock. And if you ever wanted to ask or had a sample of something that you'd like to see come back to life, I very much appreciate those, and you can email me. Can I give my email? Yes, sure you can. Kyle at MarcoPinball.com. K-Y-L-E. Super easy. I accept samples. I love them, and I will work with you to try to get things remade as best as I can. Yeah. Was that an okay plug? No, totally. We give everyone a chance to plug. If you want to come back on, you're more than welcome to. We'd love to have you. I wasn't that boring. You guys weren't falling asleep? Nope. Not at all. Nope. I wonder if we'll ever see a flipper innovation. Last subject, flipper innovations. What else can happen to the flipper we've known and loved for so long to change it up? Does it need to be changed? It's been around for 50 years. No banana flippers. Don't do that. No banana flippers. No lightning flippers. Just keep it. Lightning flippers are fine. Just a little harder.
    104:43
    Zipper flipper. I'd love to see a zipper flipper come back. There you go. Yeah, actually, hey, let me plug that. If anyone has a zipper flipper mech, I would absolutely love to get my hands on one to reverse engineer as much as I possibly can. Nice. Yes. I'd like to see those parts become available again because they are not long for this world.
    105:03
    Well, Mr. Ron, give us a spiel. We are the Slamtail Podcast. This has been Episode 187. Again, we can be reached at slamtailpodcast at gmail.com. Check out our website, www.slamtiltpodcast.com. Look in the upper right-hand corner for all our wonderful links. I stream every once in a blue moon. Blue, blue moon. Blue moon. Hopefully, whenever I get my Godzilla, or maybe I'll have to cancel my Godzilla now after that whole great concession. I can't get that now. I'll take his order spot. No, no, no, no. Forget it. No, no, no, do not take my own spot.
    105:45
    Whenever I get to Godzilla, I was going to do some kind of stuff you should do to this game type video, something a little different than the typical unboxing video. Thanks to everybody out there. Thanks to all these little people. Hi, Isaac. Phone a bonus. Hello. Everyone in the Clusterbuck thread. I saw a lot of people on the stream for Twitch, you know, with Jeff Teolis, Steve Bowden, a lot of regulars, and nice job. Like, everyone, congratulations. and 64 players. Very cool time. It'll be expanded to 80-something next year. Yes, it will be. Maybe I'll make it. No, I won't. That'll never happen. No, you won't. No, I won't. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Kyle, for joining us. Thanks, Kyle. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It's an honor, and I'm sorry to everyone I've greatly offended by saying I don't like Whitewater, or don't understand why everyone likes Whitewater, and I scrapped a Quicksilver, so I'm sorry. 0 for 2.
    106:42
    Three strikes, you're out, buddy. Oh, no. I'll show you next time. See you all later. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Eric Stone, 2022 IFBA 17 champion. Oh, my, my, oh, my, my, can you fool me, can you fly? Oh, my, my, oh, my, my, you can fool me if you fly. Oh, my, my, oh, my, my, guarantee to leave you alive.
    107:26
    Oh my. Okay. Ready? Ready. All right. He's ready. He's opening it up, man. He's pounding them down before we even start. No, no, just the second one. That's all. Okay. Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, a show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, oh, I screwed up. fail wow damn it how many times have you done that 180 something or probably 190 90s groups hold on I feel I would be remiss if you didn't consult the whenever I pause that means I fucked up and I'm going to edit that part out well thank you Kyle for coming on I hope you had a good time I very much had a good time. I was very, very anxious. If you notice, the show is just, you see how exactly the show goes. And it just free flows. It really does. It's just. It's free, free flowing. Free balling. It's free balling. Free balling. I like that.
    109:18
    Free, free balling. Free balling. Yes, Al. Free ball I like that