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Episode 119 – Viper Bite

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·held·Dec 4, 2018
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Sanctum operator Jim Swain discusses 24-hr tournament, league operations, and pinball community building in Connecticut.

Summary

Jim Swain of the Sanctum in Meriden, Connecticut discusses the history and operations of his pinball venue, which hosts the renowned 24-hour tournament, the Crap League (Connecticut Rhode Island Area Pinball), and Pintastic. The episode covers venue evolution, tournament formats, game selection strategy, and community-driven operations, with discussion of classic games like Viper and Stern electronics market dynamics.

Key Claims

  • The Sanctum expanded from 1,000 to 2,100-2,200 square feet through a Kickstarter campaign to accommodate growth

    high confidence · Jim Swain directly describing venue expansion history

  • The 24-hour tournament format uses match play (three games instead of four) with less breaks, playing the equivalent of a full Pinberg weekend in 24 hours

    high confidence · Jim Swain explaining tournament format in detail

  • Pintastic has used 48 different games over four years without repeating any machine

    high confidence · Jim Swain: 'we have not used the same game um more than once so we've had um four years of it so we've used 48 different games so far'

  • The original New England Pinball League (NEPL) ran around 200 players and held finals at Pinball Wizard with 130-140 players some seasons

    high confidence · Jim Swain describing league history before Pinball Wizard closure

  • Jim Swain traded a Gottlieb SureShot for a Viper with Alex Nagy (a local collector from the Allentown area who prefers older EMs)

    high confidence · Jim Swain recounting the trade story

  • Stern Electronics games (like Sea Witch) have increased significantly in value; a Sea Witch that sold for $800 a couple years ago is now much harder to find at that price

    high confidence · Jim Swain discussing Stern pinball market pricing

  • Jake Erskine from Maine volunteered as a dedicated tech for the 24-hour tournament this year, staying the full 24 hours

    high confidence · Jim Swain crediting Erskine's contribution

  • A Judge Dredd bug allows players to infinitely loop final challenges in certain scenarios due to game coding

    medium confidence · Jim Swain mentioning bug discovered during Eric Stone vs. Zach match at Pintastic

  • Players from as far away as California attend the 24-hour tournament at the Sanctum

Notable Quotes

  • “Find the right people, you know, people that have games and are willing to let people play the games. So many people now don't want people playing their games.”

    Jim Swain @ N/A — Core philosophy for community-driven pinball venues; reflects shift in collector culture toward gatekeeping vs. access

  • “It's the community. It's the community that we've grown here is just amazing. If you find the people and build something, they will come.”

    Jim Swain @ N/A — Emphasizes community-building as foundation for successful pinball venues; philosophy underlying Sanctum's growth

  • “You've got players in the middle of Maine that need to come all the way down to Meriden for finals. It's a bit of a haul.”

    Jim Swain @ N/A — Explains rationale for splitting from New England Pinball League to form regional Crap League; logistics of regional league fragmentation

  • “I came out with playfield multipliers back in, you know, whatever, 1980. And I think they work well. I mean, if you're not collecting the playfield multipliers, you're not going to get any points.”

    Jim Swain (discussing Viper design) @ N/A — Designer perspective on Viper's divisive rule design; historical context for playfield multiplier mechanic

  • “The backlash is something that you just, it's bizarre, and I love it. And gameplay, people don't want to understand it, I think.”

    Jim Swain (on Viper) @ N/A — Acknowledges controversial reception of Viper; defends its gameplay philosophy

  • “I sold that one for 800 and good luck finding the Sea Witch for 800 again.”

    Jim Swain (on Stern Electronics pricing) @ N/A — Direct evidence of rapid secondary market appreciation for vintage Stern Electronics machines

  • “Every year we definitely run out of water and every year we get more water and we still run out of water.”

    Jim Swain @ N/A — Humorous observation about logistical challenges of 24-hour tournaments; underscores scale and intensity

Entities

Jim SwainpersonThe SanctumvenueRon HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonSlam Tilt PodcastorganizationSilver BallvenueMark HarveypersonJake ErskinepersonAlex Nagyperson

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: The Sanctum expanded from 1,000 to 2,100-2,200 sq ft through Kickstarter community funding; indicates strong local support and venue-operator partnership model in New England region

    high · Jim Swain: 'We ran a small kickstarter because We were outgrowing that space, and the community really pitched in and really helped us'

  • ?

    community_signal: New England Pinball League fragmented after Pinball Wizard closure; Sanctum spun off regional 'Crap League' focusing on Connecticut/Rhode Island to reduce travel burden on players

    high · Jim Swain: 'you've got players in the middle of Maine that need to come all the way down to Meriden for finals. It's a bit of a haul... maybe it's time that we just kind of separate from the New Robert Englunds League'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Vintage Stern Electronics (Sea Witch, Stingray) and Gottlieb (Viper) machines remain competitively viable and appreciated in modern tournament play; commentary suggests community re-evaluating older designs

    high · Jim Swain defending Viper's playfield multiplier design; discussion of Sea Witch market appreciation; Viper featured in Sanctum rotation

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Electronics machines (e.g., Sea Witch) experiencing significant secondary market appreciation; machines that sold for $800 years ago now command much higher prices

    high · Jim Swain: 'I sold that one for 800 and good luck finding the Sea Witch for 800 again... it's hard'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Eric Stone identified as elite competitive player with exceptional game-specific skills; discovers rule exploits/bugs during tournament play; influences game selection strategy for event organizers

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.282

0:00
When you're running out of races, you can gamble a little. Hello. I'm calling back. Uh, okay. This time, let's say something.
0:23
Uh, hello? I'm... I'm... You suck! It's all pretty funny, Viva. Yeah, thanks. Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, This is the Slam Tilt Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Hi, I'm your sexy phone voice. You want to have sex with me? Press 1 for live phone sex. Press 2 to give me your credit card.
1:14
Wow. What an intro there. That was incredible, Bruce. It is, isn't it? Yes. If you remember from our previous episode, this past Saturday was the Silver Ball one anniversary. Anniversary number one.
1:30
And how did it go, Bruce? It sounds like it went pretty well. It was a madhouse. Ron was there for an hour and a half. I didn't get to say hi to him except for hi and bye.
1:42
It was the busiest we ever were. It was very nice seeing all of our friends and family came out. I'd like to thank everyone very much. It was really nice. Oh, my. Yes, yes. And Bruce was yelling a lot. Yes. Hence, his voice is totally shot. Yep, so it's going to be me in the background today. And this is episode 119. We are at the third flash this week. So the third flash, what's the third flash, Bruce? It is the RAM check. The 5101 RAM chip at U8, or U8 and U13 on Stern MPU200 boards. Yes, it is. So that is our third flash. But we're not alone this week. No, we're not. We have a guest. Tell us who we have, Ron. We have Jim Swain of the Sanctum. Hi, Jim. How are you? Whereas most people just call him Jim Sanctum, it seems. At least on the forums, it's always just Jim Sanctum. You are synonymous with the sanctum.

high confidence · Ron Hallett and Jim Swain noting geographic diversity of participants

  • The Sanctum consumed 15-25 gallons of water during the 24-hour tournament this year; prior years ran out every year

    high confidence · Jim Swain: 'we got 13 like 15 to 25 gallon jugs of water in 24 hours'

  • “So if you want your fix of the old format, the card-based, entry-based format, come up to or down, depending on where you live, to Pentastic.”

    Jim Swain @ N/A — Positions Pintastic as preservation of classic Papa format in modern tournament landscape; marketing pitch for regional event

    • Crap League
    organization
    Pintasticevent
    New England Pinball Leagueorganization
    Pinball Wizardvenue
    Eric Stoneperson
    Zachperson
    Joe Servinoperson
    Gabeperson
    Derekperson
    Andy Operson
    Chuck Websterperson
    James Calciaperson
    Vipergame
    Judge Dreddgame

    high · Jim Swain: 'because yeah every year the one year it was like dirty harry like certain ones that just get ridiculous... this year... the judge dread bug'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pintastic serves as living archive of classic Papa card-based tournament format; maintains consistent game selection strategy (12 different games each year, 48 total with no repeats across four years)

    high · Jim Swain: 'we have not used the same game um more than once so we've had um four years of it so we've used 48 different games so far'

  • ?

    operational_signal: 24-hour tournament requires sophisticated planning: water supply (15-25 gallons), food catering (pizza vendor pre-warned, food truck at midday, midnight breakfast prep at 4-5am), trash management, game maintenance protocols, dedicated tech support for full 24-hour duration

    high · Jim Swain discussing water consumption, food logistics, trash facilities, and Jake Erskine's 24-hour tech support role

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jim Swain articulates Viper's design intent: playfield multipliers require intentional collection for scoring; flat flippers and low trapability force 'on-the-fly' play with minimal safe shots; reflects 1980s design philosophy

    high · Jim Swain: 'I came out with playfield multipliers back in, you know, whatever, 1980... if you're not collecting the playfield multipliers, you're not going to get any points... The flippers are very flat, very low. You can't trap up very easily.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Judge Dredd contains exploitable bug allowing infinite final challenge loops; behavior confirmed reproducible through simulation; poses potential competitive integrity issue in tournaments

    medium · Jim Swain: 'the judge dread bug um where you can pretty much infinitely play a final challenge... I actually went through and just simulated to see if it would do it again and it did'

  • ?

    content_signal: Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 119 focuses on long-form community infrastructure and venue operations rather than industry news; reflects shift toward grassroots scene documentation and operator perspectives

    high · Episode title 'Viper Bite' paired with extensive Sanctum history, tournament operations, and regional league dynamics discussion

  • ?

    industry_signal: New England pinball scene sustains multiple simultaneous tournament formats: Pintastic (card-based Papa-style), 24-hour marathon, seasonal leagues (Crap League, NEPL), weekly tournaments; indicates robust competitive infrastructure

    high · Jim Swain describing Sanctum hosting 24-hour tournament, Crap League (8-week seasons x3/year), Pintastic (annual), plus weekly Monday night tournaments

  • ?

    community_signal: Sanctum operates as collective with shared game ownership, maintenance responsibility, and financial burden; emphasizes finding 'right people' who bring specific skills and are willing to operate non-commercially

    high · Jim Swain: 'the games there are a mix of my games mars games john's games... if something needs to be fixed it just gets fixed we don't worry... four of us and you know everybody had no problem just pitching in whatever the remainder of the rent was'

    • 2:47
    I don't mind that. It's a good thing. So why don't you tell us, I'll use the Bruce line, what got you into this crazy hobby?
    2:58
    It's the same as everybody, you know, a kid playing his games. I think the big game was the first game I played. I used to play in bowling alleys and everything. And then one day you figure out, hey, I can own one of these things, and it's all downhill from there. And that's it. There. Thank you, Jim. Next, we will... So how did... For those who don't know, there was a location in Connecticut called The Sanctum. It's a hotbed of pinball in the New England area. And they have the 24-hour tournament once a year.
    3:31
    So why don't you tell us how that all got started? I moved to this state about eight years ago. I came from Maine. and I actually didn't even know who JR was or any of the people up there yet. I hadn't really discovered the hobby side of the aspect of everything. I was just playing at the pizza places and stuff like that. So I moved to Connecticut, started finding a few people here and wanted to do some leagues or something, so we started playing some leagues. A friend of mine started the Sandy Hook Arcade after the stuff that happened there to give a free place for kids to hang out. And so we started doing some stuff there with him, just helping out him. And we ran a season of the NEPL, the New England Pinball League there. And then that was a temporary place anyways. And then from there we moved to a friend's garage and had a season there.
    4:25
    And then Mike over at Automated Services, the pinball store here, he actually lent us his showroom for a season. And at that point, we just kind of got tired of bouncing around from place to place. So a couple of us got together and said, you know, we've all got games. Let's find a cheap place and put them all in there. And, you know, we can run our leagues and everything else out of there. And it's just kind of grown out of control from there.
    4:48
    How did you find the location? It's an interesting building. It is very interesting. When we first started, we were just thinking, you know, we were using people's garages a lot. So like, all right, let's see if we can find like a cheap storage unit somewhere and, you know, rig up some power or something. just to, you know, once a week meet up a few people and play games. And that wasn't really panning out. And then we just briefly started looking at commercial properties and just found that place. And it was just like, yeah, this is perfect. They don't care what we're doing here. And, you know, we're not going to bother anybody. And, yeah, it's worked out really well for us there. We got pretty lucky with the location, I think. And they have freight elevators, which is always a good thing. Yes. Very handy. Loading docks and freight elevators. and it's you have not always been in the same place in the building you have moved at least once yes we were on the third floor which was very brutal it gets to be like in the 90s up there consistently and uh the roof isn't the greatest either up there there's many uh too many roof leaks and then we moved down to the second floor from there um we ran a small kickstarter because We were outgrowing that space, and the community really pitched in and really helped us and made it so we were able to set up a unit on the second floor with the electrical and everything we needed for what we were doing.
    6:10
    What was the size of the original area? The original area was about 1,000 square feet, and we're at 2,100 or 2,200 now. So the 24 hours at the Sanctum would be rather difficult, probably impossible in the old location, I would assume. Well, the first year we did it was up there, and it was 1,000 square feet. We said, all right, let's try to see if we can get 40 people, and we did eventually manage to find 40 people to do it. And we had a good time. Not everybody knew what they were getting into going into it at all. Some people didn't realize they had to be there all 24 hours. and then the second season we were in talks with the building of moving to the second floor already and we were supposed to be in our 2200 square foot unit and so we said alright let's try to expand it and we'll go to 64 and the people that were in that unit were going through some probate courts and stuff like that for liquidating all the assets and we weren't able to get in there in time so we were stuck in the 1000 square feet with 64 people and 30 machines but we uh we managed to plow through it and then shortly after that we were able to move down to the other unit so how did the whole 24-hour thing start because it just seems like this insane concept what sane person would want to do that there was a group of us um we were hanging out at um chuck webster's uh wicked piss a pinball pit tournament in the summer that he used to throw every year and we were just hanging out in the backyard and talking as a group of us uh me james calcia and some other people and we were just like it'd be ridiculous if you know get people to play for 24 hours it was a joke we didn't really think too much of it and then you know went back and started thinking about it a little bit stronger and uh mark and i started really like trying to think about is there a format that people could play that whole time and even if you could like what would get them to play that whole time. And I think we managed to hammer out something fairly decent as far as a format. And the format is match play. Yep. Very similar to Pinberg. Basically, it's like three games instead of four. Yep.
    8:27
    And less breaks. Yes, less breaks. That is true. It's basically playing the whole weekend of Pinberg in one 24-hour lot. and it is quite insane. It is quite insane. It surprised me that many people want to do it, do want to do it, and keep coming back to do it. It's a nice little family almost now.
    8:53
    Yeah, it's like, was it 100 max? Yeah. You go in there now. Walk me through, what is the typical preparation for that event?
    9:04
    You pick banks of games, because it's not like every single game there is in a bank or is used for the 24-hour. We don't have the perfect collection like Papa does to pick of every area. We're going to have one modern DMD or LCD and then an early 90s. So we just go through and we look at our games, and I'll write a list down of 1 through 47. This is the longest-playing game. This is the quickest-playing game. And then I'll divide those into three groups. you know so top third middle third bottom third and then from there i'll pick you know all right we're gonna say pick iron maiden iron maiden is a long playing game so we're gonna give it something from the the second tier that's going to be a little bit shorter if you try to balance it out and just kind of work through it that way until we think we've got games that are gonna you know play in similar similar lengths so nobody is you know on a bank for two hours when another group's done in a half hour um so you know we try to work out the banks and you know just a lot of game preparation really. Luckily, the games are played competitively every week, so we have an idea of what's going wrong with the games, but there's always wonderful stuff that pops up. So the week or two before that, we'll just start really dialing in the games and getting all those little pesky things that get left behind every week. Try to get some of the light bulbs that are dead and little stuff like that. How about other preparation, like making sure there's enough water.
    10:31
    There's a table just full of water that they keep changing and putting it in the water cooler. All that trash and all that kind of stuff. Every year we definitely run out of water and every year we get more water and we still run out of water. At 3 o'clock in the morning there's not much you can do. This year I found there is a place down the road. It's a 24-hour spring. For $0.25 a gallon you can fill 5-gallon jugs. so this year we did not run out of water we made a run in the middle of the night i think we went through i don't know let's see we got 13 like 15 to 25 gallon jugs of water in 24 hours people are definitely staying hydrated um luckily we have dumpster facility there so trash isn't too much of an issue um you know we warned some of the local uh we warned the local pizza guy that he's probably going to get a little hammered saturday evening we uh we set up a food truck to come in uh midday saturday and try to uh everybody kind of stocks up a little bit before the long haul hits you know once you hit 10 o'clock everything kind of shuts down and you've got to be prepared for the uh get through to the wee hours in the morning and then uh one of our players matt who helps run the sanctum with us him and his wife um get up in the middle of the night and start preparing a wonderful breakfast buffet for everybody at boat you know i don't know what time they come 4 or 5 a.m this year yeah something like yeah something like that yes yeah it's definitely a nice little uh boost to get through the last stretch there and you it's it's you and um mark harvey yeah we're the two we're the two tournament directors um the first two years we played and ran it and then realized that it's just it it's too much so then the uh the next two years We were just straight tournament directors. And this year we actually brought on Jake Erskine from up in Maine. He actually volunteered to help be a tech for us. So he was there the whole 24 hours just as a dedicated tech, just diving into games and dealing with those and trying to get those going again before the next round starts. And luckily we didn't have to make too many substitutions this year for Swamp and Owl Games. He really helped us out just getting games going back online. and I noticed I mean there's players from as far away as like California who come to this tournament and um I played in it to my utter surprise and amazement I had a chance you might get in there I knew one person that had can't had to cancel a late Friday night so I knew there was going to be two spots open in the morning um and uh Kenny who got in ahead of you he was already there waiting so his spot was given in and then uh somebody was texting me in the morning they were trying to drive in and they're they had car problems so they were going to possibly miss the first round but then eventually they realized they weren't going to make it at all so i knew that uh our local player andy o was getting in because he was the top of the list and he told me he was coming and then uh by chance we had somebody else show up and i can't remember who it was now i think he was a canadian player and uh people We're surprised he wasn't there, but I don't know what happened.
    13:44
    I would like to thank him, whoever he was. It was Joe Servino. That's it. I would like to thank you, Joe, if you listen. Hopefully nothing bad happened to you.
    13:57
    That's true. Do you really want to thank him, though? Did you really want to play? I wasn't – I was half prepared to. Like, I brought my granola bars and all that stuff, but I was in a hotel room with Zach and Steph, and they were in, so I just slept on an air mattress. I figured if I don't sleep well, who cares because I'm not getting it anyway. So I didn't really sleep well, but then I got in. It's like, oh, shit. So I don't think I was as – it's definitely not as prepared as I was the previous year, but, I mean, I made it through fine. I didn't play well. I sucked. It was terrible.
    14:44
    Bruce played much better, right, Bruce? Yes, I did. I enjoyed myself very much. So you're going to sign up again next year, right? Oh, yeah. The hardest part is, of course, is you at the bar. Yes, yeah.
    14:58
    So if people want to, if you have any suggestions for making what you guys have done, which is almost like a partnership, partnership. Maybe you should go into a little bit of that. How did you get started with the Sanctum and how did you guys work out some of the nuances to make it work for you guys?
    15:18
    I feel pretty lucky in the situation. I've talked to many people who wanted to do it or looking to do it. For us, Mark and I got together and started and we brought in a couple of other players that were coming to all of our events and were dedicated to the things we were doing and it was it's just a group you know definitely find people that you just work well with that all the little things don't matter you know we just the games there are a mix of my games mars games john's games math games uh we own some of the games together and you know if something needs to be fixed it just gets fixed we don't worry oh that's matt's game wait till matt fixes it or whatever the situation may be um so definitely finding the group of people that you want to do it with, I think is the number one aspect. You find the right people and the rest is easy. You know, when we started off, we just, we're like, all right, we're going to get a space. It's going to cost, you know, X amount of dollars a month. We're just doing this because we love doing it. We want a place to play and see everybody every week. And, you know, our rent costs this much and we're going to ask, you know, people to donate this much when they come in every week. If it covers our bills, great. If it doesn't, there's four of us and, you know, everybody had no problem just pitching in whatever, you know, the remainder of the rent was. We're lucky at this point where, you know, we've got enough of a following that, you know, it pays all of our utility bills. You know, we're not really pitching in too much of our own out-of-pocket money every month, you know, besides, you know, some of the game stuff that we need to take care of. So find the right people, you know, people that have games and are willing to let people play the games. So many people now don't want people playing their games. And, you know, just make sure that everybody that's wants in has some sort of skill that they can bring to the table. If it's a guy that's got four games but doesn't know how to work on them and doesn't know how to do anything else, it only goes so far. You know, you can have 100 people donate games to you, but you can't take care of all of them yourself.
    17:16
    So, yeah, find the right people, you know, find a place. You know, we're not too restricted. We can be there whenever we want to be there. Noise isn't an issue. You know, we're not in some shopping plaza where there's noise ordinances or anything like that. Yeah, and just, you know, the community. It's all about the local community. We have so many people that aren't necessarily directly part of the sanctum, but help us out every week. You know, we got some people that Monday nights they take the trash out or, you know, if we're if I'm not running something, you know, because I'm out of town and somebody else is opening up. And, you know, one of our local players would just run a casual tournament that night, you know, just to keep everybody happy and playing. It's the community. It's the community that we've grown here is just amazing. If you find the people and build something, they will come. It's what happens.
    18:09
    So if I happen to live in Meriden, Connecticut, where the sanctum is, and I just find out about this, what's the usual schedule? When do you guys open? Every Monday night except for major holidays like Christmas, Memorial Day, stuff like that.
    18:26
    Doors open at 6.30. I usually close the doors somewhere between midnight and 1 o'clock. And we'll always have a tournament or a league going on. If we're in league season, we'll run for eight weeks. And then if we're not in league season, we'll have knockout tournaments and stuff like that. And those always start at like 7.30.
    18:48
    So doors at 6.30, we'll start whatever tournament or league we're running at 7.30 and then eventually kick everybody out at 1 o'clock. You have an interesting league name because originally they had the New England Pinball League but I think when the Pinball Wizards Arcade closed down a lot of stuff kind of started to get splintered Yeah, our league used to run around 200 players and it was set up to everybody was invited to finals as long as you played enough weeks and that was at Pinball Wizard they had 100 machines space would definitely get tight you know but everybody was invited and you know some seasons we'd have 130 140 players show up for finals and uh it was a bit chaotic but we uh we managed and when they finally uh couldn't uh get their leases renewed properly and everything and then decided to close up um things started changing so we tried some uh format changes and um we were the next biggest facility around so we would run finals but as far as the new england league goes You know, you've got players in the middle of Maine that need to come all the way down to Meriden for finals. It's a bit of a haul.
    20:01
    So it wasn't the best situation. So things started getting a little disjointed there and trying to figure out new formats and stuff like that. And it got to a point where the league was getting very, very big. There's a lot of locations. Us alone in Connecticut, we were running, you know, 50 players a season, if not more. and I was just like, you know, maybe it's time that we just kind of separate from the New England League and try to do our own thing down in this little area and make it a little more convenient for players down here. And the name of the league is? It's the Crap League. The Crap League. That's C-R-A-P and stands for? Connecticut, Rhode Island Area Pinball.
    20:44
    So we do similar to the New England League. it's us and another location RIP and I believe it's West Greenwich, Rhode Island and so we run similar format and then we play the eight weeks and then everybody you can play at either location but just one place per week and then we have finals at the Sanctum end of every season, we do about three seasons a year Finals at the Sanctum sounds so good you know where our finals are going to be at the Excelsior Pub like they always are I'm not going to get to play the two games that I always play. Isn't that great?
    21:22
    I can't imagine that's too enjoyable. The thing is, our league is growing. We have like 13 people now, but we're playing the same two games over and over. Well, you get enough people, I think maybe you can start pushing for some more games over there.
    21:38
    Maybe you have it at your house, Ron. I've already offered twice. I know, but you really pushed a point. I'm not a pushy type of guy yeah you are no I'm not so let's see what else is it going to add well the two games we have at my league are Simpsons Pinball Party and Twilight Zone so the question everyone wants to know is are those games better than Viper let's see you know I really want to enjoy Simpsons, but I just, I can never get far enough in that game to really enjoy it. The layout just, it's not a fun shooting layout. I'm going to pick Viper over Simpsons. But I will, I'm sure Bruce is going to hate me saying this, but I will give Twilight Zone over Viper.
    22:32
    Sinner. I agree. I agree. I'm totally opposite of you guys. You'll take Viper over both of those? No, Simpsons over Viper and then Viper over Twilight Zone. Maybe I just need more time on Simpsons. Maybe I need one in my house. You do.
    22:53
    Do you have any games at your house? Even though you have 50 games plus at the Sanctum? I have too many in my house, most of which are the non-working broken games that I'm trying to bring back from the dead. But I did manage to set up a small little bank of games. I moved into a new house not too long ago so um i have currently set up belly atlantis a gotley duotron stern stingray lord of the rings a pennant fever pitching bat one of the only system mates and um i did have Elvis but I just actually took it out to put it up in a pop art gallery for the month of December Oh, there you go.
    23:38
    Excellent. So I always mention Viper because we had a whole segment on Viper a few episodes ago. I've softened on Viper a little bit. People slowly come around. Well, that's one thing you have over Papa. You have that over Pinberg. Pinberg, you can't play a Viper, but you can play a Viper at the Sanctum.
    23:59
    So how did you get that thing? You know, I actually stumbled upon it. I wasn't searching it out. I mean, I wanted one eventually, trying to get all the turns. But there's a local guy who's got a large collection of games, but he prefers the older games, you know, EMs and stuff like that. I see him at Allentown. You guys might know him, Alex Nagy. Yep. Yeah. So he's in the area. And a couple years ago, I had made a trade with somebody and ended up with a Gottlieb SureShot. I didn't really care for it, but it was something I acquired in the trade. And I had it out, and I just set it up on the floor. And he was asking about it, and he wanted it. And I said, well, what do you have? And he mentioned he had some plastic stirrers. I said, all right, which ones? And he said, no, I think I got a Viper. So we worked out a trade for a SureShot for Viper.
    24:47
    I was happy. What do you like about Viper? What is the appeal? I mean, the backlash is something that you just, it's bizarre, and I love it. And gameplay, people don't want to understand it, I think. You know, people go crazy about bonus or playfield multipliers rules now. I came out with playfield multipliers back in, you know, whatever, 1980.
    25:15
    And I think they work well. I mean, if you're not collecting the playfield multipliers, you're not going to get any points. But if you do, you'll get them. And that's Viper, folks. I like the game. It's just hard. It's very hard. The design of it, the flippers are very flat, very low.
    25:37
    You can't trap up very easily. You're kind of forced to play on the fly a little bit. And there's not a lot of safe shots.
    25:46
    So does Jim hate us because we've increased the values of Stern Electronic Games? yes you know i'm trying to collect all those sterns and i stupidly a couple years ago i had a sea witch and it was it was very in subpar condition um but you know i made it play perfectly fine and i said you know what let me let me move this on i'll get another one eventually well i sold that one for 800 and good luck finding the sea witch for 800 again yeah it's hard i think I remember that Sea Witch. Did it have like... Yeah, I was missing an insert, like it had Mylar over the insert or something. Okay, so I do remember that. Yeah, that's the way it came. When I bought it, I didn't even realize it. Wow. The thing is, it still played fine. Yeah. It didn't affect it at all, I mean.
    26:38
    But the underside of that game was fairly rough under there. Well, if you ever get tired of that pinball you have, that stern pinball. Just let us know. If I find a better condition one, I'll let you have that one. There you go. I'm holding on to that one. We like that game. Selfish Stingray. Same ROMs, right? Yes. Same exact ROMs. Doesn't play as well, though. No, it doesn't. It does not.
    27:07
    Now, it's not just the 24-hour battle. It's not just the crap league, but there's also the Pintastic tournament. You guys run that, too. Why don't you tell us how that happened?
    27:21
    The two people that organized Pentastic, well, there was two people to start, Gabe and Derek. They were, you know, just starting off out of nowhere. They, you know, they enjoyed Allentown so much. And one of you just said, let's try to make a show. And they went big right out of the gate. They didn't hold back at all. And the first year, I think they went a little too big. but they uh they were just looking for somebody to run a tournament and we had the facility and we were prepared to you know running big events um there's definitely tons of people in new england area that run um events i think we were running some of the bigger events at the time so they just came to us and asked if we want to do the tournament i said sure why not um you know it's not too far from us so we uh we've locked into that and and we've been doing it for i think This past year was the fourth year.
    28:17
    So, yeah, they just asked us to do it. We agreed to do it. And, I don't know, it's fun doing it. It's different. It's changed the space. It's definitely harder than running things at your own facility, trying to truck games in, make sure they play perfectly there, make sure you've got everything you need on hand to keep the games going and everything like that.
    28:33
    But, you know, we run that the same way the Papa format used to be. And I think it's definitely polarizing. Some people enjoy the format. Some people miss it. That puppet doesn't use it anymore. Or puppet doesn't actually happen anymore. It didn't happen this year.
    28:50
    But I don't know. I think people like it. We do a different finals format. We do a big head-to-head bracket, best of five head-to-head single elimination. I enjoy the head-to-head competition. It makes for some really intense battles. I like watching those, especially on a stream. I think head-to-head plays out a lot better.
    29:14
    I will always be a fan, especially with the results of the first Pintastic. I will always be a fan. You were the first ever winner. Yes, no one can take that from me. I was in full 747 mode, as in playing over my head. I'll say that.
    29:31
    Yeah, and it's funny. They never mention, like when they talk about tournaments that use the old Papa format, they usually talk about, you know, like the Pittsburgh Pinball Open. and they'll talk about InDisc, what's now they're doing it, but they don't really, they never mention Pentastic, which is funny to me because, I mean, you guys have been doing that for four years now. It's been the same every year. So if you want your fix of the old format, the card-based, entry-based format, come up to or down, depending on where you live, to Pentastic.
    30:03
    Yes, I highly recommend it. It's a great show. We have a great time. There's plenty to do there for everybody. how do you usually pick the games for that um so far what we go through our collection and we have not used the same game um more than once so we've had um four years of it so we've used 48 different games so far so next year we got to find another 12 games that are also different but we try to mix it up with you know i don't want a tournament with you know 10 sterns in it or all ballet DMDs or all EMs. You know, it's a card-based thing. I want something that everybody can play. We don't run a classics tournament on the side. We just dedicate all our effort into the main tournament and, you know, encourage everybody to play in that. So we just stick with that, and so we try to make the bank of games reflect everybody's skill set, but not give it so that, you know, you're going to pick five games out of the 12. I don't want to have five EMs in there, so some guy who is amazing at EMs can just go and play all the EMs and never have to play any of the other games, or somebody that just loves the new Stern games. I'm not going to have five new Sterns in there so they can just hammer on those. There may be three games in your wheelhouse that you're confident on in your favorite era, but then you're going to have to pick two wild balls that are just not something up your alley and prove that you can play those games as well.
    31:26
    When you collect the list of those games, do you write down, okay, which one of these is Eric Stone going to destroy?
    31:33
    because yeah every year the one year it was like dirty harry like certain ones that just get ridiculous yeah i think transporter he was also on that this year with some crazy scores um usually he ends up finding a bug in a game for us um this year i i didn't know about it apparently a few people did the judge dread bug um where you can pretty much infinitely play a final challenge which I didn't know was possible but that's just definitely the way the game is coded and it does eventually end in certain scenarios so because that happened in a match between Eric Stone and our own Zach yes yeah and then if I recall you actually went through and just simulated to see if it would do it again and it did it wasn't like the game freaked out or anything like that it is coded so if you play I think it was if you do the multi-ball play get all four judges and then start final challenge play through it then do all the modes and play final challenge then it's lit infinitely for the remainder of the ball um and then when you drain start of the next ball it will also be lit but it will only play out one time once you drain out of it that time then it turns out finally so maybe we can get a soaring on that to fix that one. Yeah, because the play field, that's a fun play field. I enjoy it. There's definitely a few things about it that the upper area, there's a lot of shots, like the blackout ramp. There's really no need to shoot that blackout ramp except for blackout mode.
    33:10
    And you can have some really good fun combos shooting up there, looping and crossing over and stuff like that. But it's not really worth anything.
    33:19
    Where's Radical? Where's my Radical? Mark did just get a Radical back. I believe he's putting it in the bar in Westerly, Rhode Island that he runs called Flipside. So I think that's where it's living currently. Okay. And make sure to store in software on it, which fixes a ton of issues. Those ROMs were burned about three weeks ago for it. Nice. Excellent. So, yeah, those ROMs definitely look like a good improvement on the game.
    33:47
    One thing I wanted to bring up, you are also an excellent player. We should bring that up. Well, I think a lot of it just comes from playing in so many events because you run so many events. It tends to inflate numbers, I think.
    34:02
    Okay, so you suck. All right, I put that down. Yeah, I'll take that. When I compare myself to a lot of the local players we have here, they can routinely kick my butt every week. I mean, I think you – were you guys – no, you didn't come out to the pre-tournament. But we have this 11-year-old kid that plays every week, Ashton, and he crushes all of us. He came third in the pre-tournament.
    34:29
    I know Ashton. Yeah. He used to be on Tim's stream all the time. He was, yeah. And he was at the first stop.
    34:38
    Yeah, that's right. And he commented when I won. It's like, well, they're his games. So that's why I remember Ashton. Yes. It's like, what do you expect? They're his games. I'm like, well, he's got a point. So, since we did this segment, let's do it for Jim here. Although, I don't have any games actually in mind, but I'm sure Jim does. Game you like, game you hate. Give us a game you like.
    35:07
    The game I like is Stern Elvis. It's one of my top games. Really? It is. I mean, the theme does a lot for me. I definitely enjoy Elvis a lot. But the layout, you know, Steve Ritchie, I think he did a great layout there. It's not too much like one of his, you know, it doesn't remind me of, it's not exactly Spider-Man or Star Trek or anything like that. But it's a well laid out layout. The rules, which were done by Dwight, but still done very well. there's no one way to play that game. You kind of want to go for everything. There's no reason to just sit there and play jailhouse. You know, you can get points out of it, but you're not going to get great points out of it. You know, you want to, you want to go through the whole game. And I think they did a great job with the, the whole theme with bracelet and everything. I, I enjoyed the game a lot. It's one that won't leave my collection.
    36:06
    Now game you hate. There's definitely some out there that I, I hate. let the hate flow through you. You know, I'll give Bruce some love. Gottlieb Dragon. I like a lot of the system ones, but Dragon just... It looks cool, and you want it to be good, but it's just nothing. It's fun to hit on that game.
    36:36
    Agree. Bruce will agree with any... So, Bruce, any new games that you hate lately? we know you hate dialed in now and you hate tna yep see tna is a good game no it's not it is it's not you can pick them up cheaper and cheaper now all what three of them that have gone for sale oh there's a lot more than three brian broils was hard i was trying to sell his and he was begging people at 5,600.
    37:09
    Oh, that's... It's going down, baby. I like it in co-op mode. Oh, yeah, it's a lot of fun. We definitely have players that'll do that. I'll catch them all the time.
    37:20
    I really don't like it as a four-person match. The lock stealing just gets annoying. Just gets really annoying.
    37:31
    It does. I mean, if they do steal the locks, It's a lot of chopping to get back into a second multi-ball for that ball. So it's a little discouraging, but, I mean, it's only three shots to start up in multi-ball again if somebody stole your locks.
    37:46
    Any more hate, Bruce? I'm always hateful. You know me. Okay. Any love? Any new loves? Oh, I got blackjack back, so that's a return to the love.
    37:59
    I played it at the Sanctum, and then one fell into my hands again, so boom. Had to get it. That was a great game that surprised us. It might have been the first game that we bought as a group before we even officially started the Sanctum. And, yeah, that and Globetrotters are two games that will never leave the collection.
    38:21
    All right. So is Blackjack better than Viper? Blackjack better than Viper. I'm going to go I will give Blackjack the edge Ding ding ding ding correct answer Now He didn't say hoops Ron so we have a chance To buy his hoops No that has gone and left twice now And it's finally back so it's not leaving again But we love hoops We love hoops So don't we Well wait a minute if hoops is so great how did it leave twice It was a The original purchase was with an agreement from the previous owner that he could take it back whenever he wanted. And so that happened. And then it's a long, confusing story, but it's back in permanent hands with us now. All right. Because we all love hoops on the Slam Tilt Podcast. Yes, we do. It's a simple layout, but you shoot both sides and the rules are good. Yes. It doesn't have any of the wacky, gottly, you know, steal a score, or he has a random million for nothing.
    39:34
    Even Zach likes it. I mean, what more do I need to say right there? It's going to be one of the six games he likes. Ooh.
    39:43
    He likes more than six. I mean, he's... Yeah, Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars. He owns, like, what, 50 games, so that's at least 50 he likes, right?
    39:53
    He probably owns a couple that he doesn't like. He just owns a pair. where he's working on it for somebody else but yeah yeah did you know i got to play star wars this weekend bruce and the usual reaction there is none yep that is the right reaction that is oh no not you too oh man i i was when i first saw it i was just not i was like eh and then um mark bought one for the bar he had it there for a while brought it over to the tanking for a while and every week there was a group of us we would try to enjoy it and all we could do is just make fun of it i just we couldn't couldn't enjoy it it's just not it's not fun to shoot it's very fun to shoot oh totally wrong incorrect answer no correct answer thank you very much of all the steve richie games are you going to pick that one to play thank you i like star wars i like star okay okay star wars is it better than viper no no wow viper is correct answer star wars correct answer goodness oh i had like five billion on it it was so fun it's so awesome bruce it's not yes it is more people every day tell you this and you still our brain you've been converted to the dark side i've been stop it i've been but it's fun no it's not shot multipliers are awesome no they're not you have four different hot dogs you can go for you know steve richie master of the hot dog insert how long before stern hot dogs start floating out of playfields.
    41:40
    It's terrible. Well, so do you think the hot dog inserts are just going to fall out of the playfields? I don't know. I mean, I've seen many high speeds where they're in very, very poor shape. That was Williams.
    41:57
    Also a top game. Okay, high speed. Over Star Wars. But his high speed as good as Viper. I'll take high speed over Viper. Me too.
    42:10
    Let's see. I covered everything here. Do you want to bring anything up, Jim, before we go to our other stuff? No, I think that's about it. You can follow the Sanctum on Facebook.
    42:26
    The Sanctum on Facebook or our website, tothesanctum.org. Go there. You won't regret it. You will not. Yes. Yeah, come visit. Every Monday. Oh, our Christmas party is coming up December, let's see, two weeks from tomorrow. What's that? December 17th is our Christmas party. So come down, have fun. Everybody will be in good spirits. It's usually a good time. We'll have a little tournament going too for anybody that wants. So if I'm a newbie and I come down like on a random Monday, how much is the, is it $10? We ask for a $10 donation to come in. If we're doing one of our knockout tournaments, we don't charge any entry for the knockout tournaments. And I give a plaque away to the winner. And sometimes we have different companies that give us little stuff to give away as random prizes for people.
    43:19
    So go to the Sanctum. Where's the address of the Sanctum? It's 290 Pratt Street in Meriden, Connecticut. And that is the east entrance, and we're on the second floor. It's a little confusing to get to the place. uh issues you just park in the main lot you go through the door that's like right it's like by where the dogs are in the corner and there's signs right there that say like to the sanctum follow the arrows yep and it's an interesting building some of the other things that are in there i think you could probably film like some kind of horror movie in there there's definitely the third floor is much creepier yeah it is creepy all right so bruce yes do you know beetles have been arriving yes they have jim do you know that beetles have been arriving i've seen are any beetles coming to the sanctum there is talks of a beetles coming to the sanctum oh all right you heard it here folks so we had a beetles that arrived in syracuse at a place i don't remember the name of hopefully you do trappers trappers Trapper's Pizza. So, I was in town this weekend.
    44:31
    So, League Syracuse was Western New York League night was Saturday. Yes, it was. Which is at Eric Russell, one of the Russells' house in Syracuse.
    44:45
    So, it was me, Zach, and Ashley. Remember Ashley? We mentioned her before. We went to Trapper's, and we played some Beatles. So have you played Beatles yet, Bruce? No, I have not. Have you played Beatles yet, Jim? I have not. I'm curious on your take. All right. Well, first, it was very floaty because they just didn't have it up at all, unfortunately. And the tilt, like if you hit the flipper buttons too hard, it would, like, tilt you. No. But forget all that. um the gold this is it was a gold the trim looks really nice it's like like sparkly gold all around the the artwork is excellent i mean it looks it looks really really good sorry i love that teal the teal looks good yeah the teal looks good and for you know a beatles fan They got everything right, the kind of things they would look at. Like on the back glass, they're standing in the right position. You have Paul standing next to George in the right position, and you have John over by himself, and then Ringo's in the back on the drum riser, etc. These are things that a Beatle fanatic would probably demand be correct.
    46:10
    It's got a lot of nice little touches on the play field. There's like a record player that has a label on it. This is like M. Kubin, like the original designer's name of Sea Witch is on there.
    46:24
    The speakers have like knobs on them, and they say, you know, Vox, V-O-X. So a lot of little touches. They did like the spinners, the optic spinners. They got little LED little things on top of them with text on them. and just it looks awesome.
    46:46
    And the rules, I mean, it's very simplistic. Each different mode is like a song and they all have different things to do I can remember every one Like one is for pop one is for loops one is for drop targets one is like a two-ball multi-ball, and I think the other one is spinners. Did I say spinners already? I don't think I did. I think those are the five modes. and it does do a thing like you can choose your mode at the beginning of the ball. You can't choose the two-ball, multi-ball one unless you're on – if you're on ball three, it looks like it lets you choose it. So it kind of gives you like you'll play at least one multi-ball type deal. I don't know if that's a setting or not or you could change that, but that's how that was set up. That East rules? Yeah, basically. all the shots you had trouble making on Sea Witch are now easy or easier like from the lower right flipper you can actually hit a loop around the loop you can fit it in there with the upper right flipper you can loop like crazy like I mean like no fear type just over and over and over and the mode that's the loop mode is drive my car so every time you go around the loop it says beep beep Beep, beep, beep, beep. It's very, very catchy. Very, very nice touch there.
    48:15
    I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. Zach even liked it. Yes, you heard it here. So I believe Ashley liked it too.
    48:28
    So those were my impressions. I mean, it looks great now. Whether it's, how much does it cost? It's like a premium price? $10,000.
    48:37
    For the gold? Yes. Yep. Hmm. No. See, the thing is, though, a lot of your pin side arguments, too, have been, like, they should charge, at the most, they should charge, like, a pro price for it. Or, no, they should, like, charge less than a pro price because, you know, it's a stripped down, doesn't have ramps, et cetera. Right?
    49:03
    So I'll ask this question. How many mechs does Deadpool have? And by mech, I mean anything with a solenoid will include magnets. We won't include, like, the launcher and the trough launcher into the shooter lane, because all the games have that. So what do we have on Deadpool? You have two flippers, two slings. You have three pop-upers.
    49:32
    So what do we have, seven? You have the scoop. Three motor bank. Yeah. Okay, so that's... Okay, we're up to nine.
    49:42
    You have a magnet behind the three bank. Okay, ten. And isn't there some kind of diverter, or a thing that puts it off of the sword? Like, if it's on the sword, it'll come off the sword? Well, you probably... You have, what, the... Like, the Lord of the Rings, just the post. Yeah, okay. So that's eleven.
    50:01
    Any more? Is the... Is the Deadpool character, is he controlled by anything, or is it just the springs? Just the springs. Just the spring. Yeah.
    50:15
    I only played it a dozen times, but that's all I can think of. All right, so we'll go at 11. How many mechs does the Beatles have?
    50:24
    You have four flippers, three pop-uppers, one, two, three, three target banks. We're up to 10. You have a magnet at the top, 11. you have a magnet and spinner we'll count that as one if you want. That's another one. Is there any mechs with the behind the left targets there? Because that diverts down. No, it's not. You just hit the targets down and you hit the target and it just falls down. Does it come down to the left flipper? Yep. Through the lane? Yep. It comes right through the in lane. Underneath the plastic, which is interesting.
    51:01
    So basically it has the same amount of mechs actually I think it has more mechs than Deadpool. But no ramp. Okay. But I think the argument that continually is like it's so cheap to make, but it's really not. But is it $8,000 worth? I don't think it is. No. You're paying for a license and a limited, even though the goals are limited too, but it's not an open-ended like a pro. No. No, but, I mean, I enjoyed playing it.
    51:38
    And there was another Beatles I knew of that arrived at the world-famous Rock Fantasy. Yeah, Rock Fantasy, yeah. Okay, okay. So it actually arrived at Tapped, which is the bar that's next to Rock Fantasy. And that was actually streamed Saturday night by the Pinball Princess, Steph, on her Twitch stream, which is twitch.tv slash pinballprincess. That one, definitely they had jacked up a little more. As you could tell, play faster. It was definitely playing better than the one we got to play. Thanks, Steph, for playing my game and putting it on the Internet. Okay, Bruce.
    52:21
    You're just not going to let it go, are you? And, I mean, it was cool that they were just getting random people tapped, like non-pinheads. they're just putting credits on it and saying, come on up and play.
    52:35
    And if they didn't know what they were doing, like, you know, Steph was showing people, you know, what they should be doing. It was cool. It was a cool stream.
    52:43
    I would check it out if you want to see some Beatles. And you could hear it because they had a band playing earlier, but when the band was done, that's why. The stream didn't actually start until like 1030 at night. So it went to like 1 in the morning. But there was a ton of Beatles action there. We're rocking with Beatles. Yes, we were. See what I got to put up with, Jim? I hear it. Yeah. So going to Beatles, how do the new spinners with the Optos feel? Do they spin more? I'd say yes. They spin more. Now, how reliable the Optos will be and whether, you know, do you have any issues? Who knows?
    53:24
    How fast they can detect those hits. Yeah. And we know how good stern Optos are. Oh, but the cool thing is some of the little tweaks in the design. So now you can loop either way. You can actually loop with the left flipper. You can hit the right spinner and loop around. With the right lower flipper, you can actually loop it around. And, of course, with the upper right flipper, you can do continuous loops. The spinner on the left is in a position where you can actually hit it from the lower right flipper, but you can actually hit it from the upper right flipper, too, if you hit it earlier enough and do like a little mini loop around that, which was cool. It did seem to consistently work.
    54:11
    So that was, I mean, two spinners, I mean, in a repeatable loop shot, I was already sold. Just like me. Yeah, pretty much. Just the play field, it just, I mean, of course it feels great to play. It's sea witch. It's sea witch with any little issues with it basically kind of fixed. With some additions, like the super jackpot shot is cool, where you hit the drop targets down on the left and the left bank, and you hit the stand up, and then it just falls right down underneath the plastic to the left end lane. what's the magnet up top used for the magnet up top is like your mode start so if you if you are done with it if you're done with a mode like you finish your mode it'll start playing um tax man is kind of like the i'm not in a mode song okay and to start a mode you have to hit the the center bank and the lower left bank which spells fab four okay and then it'll the flasher on the top will start flashing like crazy. So if you hit the loop, the magnet will stop it dead, and the mode will start.
    55:22
    That's cool. So that's your mode start. It also is if you're like in the pop-up mode, when you hit a loop, instead of coming all the way around, the magnet will stop it, and it will go into the pop-up. And if you start the multi-ball, if you do it right, like the one ball will stop in the magnet. If you hit the other ball up there, it'll stop in the magnet, and then it'll release both of them into the pop-up, and the multi-ball starts. I thought it was cool. Yeah, it seems like a nice addition.
    55:46
    Silver, is any Beatles coming to the Silver Ball Saloon? No. Bummer. Oh, well. I'm going to buy a Translate and just put it in my Sea Witch. It will be good. Oh, Jesus. He would, too, folks.
    56:01
    We had more code. We had this code. 1.4. 1.4? Man, it looks like a lot of shit's changed. The cities? Everyone wanted the cities to do something. You know what happened to the cities, Bruce?
    56:17
    They're gone. They don't mean anything like that. They just say it. They're gone. Isn't that great? Yep. What did people say before? It was supposed to say it was changing the call-outs? Yeah, that's all it does. Yeah, if you pick New York, Hey, New York! Hey, Chicago! Yeah, whatever. That's all it was for. But they made the mistake of putting it in the game. So everyone thought they had to do something. I don't think there was ever a plan for them to do anything.
    56:45
    So they just had enough, and they just said, screw it. We'll just take them out. So they did. Should have done that a long time ago. It's tough to complain. Yeah. And they've also done some stuff with multipliers, because we love multipliers.
    57:00
    Number one, I think they made it easier to get, because what is it? I'm a little foggy on my Kisco. Do you have to go through two songs to get the first play-filled multiplier? Is that it? Like the 2X? There's like, what, 2X, 3X, and then Colossal?
    57:15
    Yeah, we got rid of ours before we ever got one of the massive updates that even implemented any of that stuff. All right, so they made it so now you only got to complete one song, and you get the first, the 2X. But they made everything so, like, it all adds up. So if you're in, like, 2X play field, and you start, like, say, what's the Demon Multiball? so you get during Demon Multiball you get a ball in Gene's mouth doubling everything. That's in addition to the playfield doubler. And then if you get double scoring, however that's done, that's another doubler. 2x 2x, 2x You get the idea.
    57:58
    So they put that stuff in there. And I guess Love Gun Multiball has really changed quite a bit. Just from looking at some of the release notes.
    58:08
    Was that in the Star Child playfield? Yeah, or the Cairo Swordsman playfield. You want to go from IJ4 because that's what it is. Yeah.
    58:18
    So that's Kiss. So Sanctum had the Kiss, but not for long. We had it almost a year, I think. I think we got rid of Kiss and traded it in and got...
    58:33
    We traded it in for another Stern. So how many of the newer Sterns do you have? We have Iron Maiden, X-Men, Tron, 24.
    58:50
    Do we have any other new Sterns? Elvis. Well, I have Elvis. He's not at the Sanctum right now. Oh, okay. Yeah, we don't have too, too many. But I enjoy them, but I just can't stand a lineup that's very heavy on them. Yeah. So in your – I think your X-Men you have Wolverine removed.
    59:14
    Yeah, Captive Ball and a small little toy above it or something. Captive Ball mod. Yeah. I think we're going to enjoy X-Men.
    59:24
    I need to learn to play it better because I don't know how to play it well enough. and people keep picking it against me because they know I don't know it very well. It's kind of gotten out there now, so now I just get taken to X-Men over and over.
    59:40
    You have to spend some time on it. Yeah, I have to spend some time on it. But I don't know where I'd play it, other than the Sanctum. I guess I'll just have to go to the Sanctum. I mean, it's only two hours, right? Yeah, you can come to the Christmas party. I could do that. It's only a weeknight. You don't have to work the next day or anything.
    59:58
    When is that again? Let's see. 17. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the only problem with that, yeah, because I do have to go to work the next day. And if I went to something like that, I'd probably stay late knowing me, and then I'd be screwed. I'd just be really tired, I guess. But, hell, I play in the 24-hour, right?
    60:19
    Can't be any more tired than that. Yeah, I can't be more tired than that. All right. There wasn't that much news, honestly. There was a piece of news I have. Ooh, okay. Hugh Hefner's Playboy pinball machine went for auction this week.
    60:38
    What do you think it went for at auction? It was in 1978. Okay, so this is the Bally one. Yes, it is.
    60:49
    $10,000. And Jim? I'm going to say $20,000. $10,000 it was. Yes! Yes! I guessed something. Are people high? Yes. I mean, why? I've definitely seen people spend a few grand on that game, which I don't understand. Yeah, me neither. It's one of the crappier ballets, honestly. It's okay. I don't mind it, but it's not... Is it better or worse than Viper?
    61:19
    Worse. It's worse than Viper. How about Kiss? Like, Bally Kiss. Better or worse than Viper? Oh, Bally Kiss is worse than Viper. Really? I don't like that game at all. Hmm.
    61:31
    Is it better or worse than Playboy? I'd play Playboy over Kiss. Really? I would take Kiss over Playboy. It's two tight spinner shots, and that's all you're shooting for to try to get the middle lane up top. But there's drop targets. There's also the stand-ups on the right to get your multiplier.
    61:51
    Are you ever actually shooting for those or just accidentally collecting those along the way? missing. Accidentally collecting them.
    62:00
    Most ballets I play, when I hit them, it doesn't register anyway. But I mean... But like... Playboy? It's like, okay, hit the bunnies.
    62:11
    The center bunny, the one that's the target, pray it registers, because at the time it won't. And then you just hit the grotto repeatedly. It's so boring. So boring. I don't know. So when you're playing Kiss, if you're playing it in Pinberg, what's your strategy going to be? Shoot the spinner, and that's it, right?
    62:30
    Try to get in the center lane, yeah. Well, that's why you're shooting the spinner. Yeah, exactly. But you've got to remember, I'm very inaccurate, so I may have to change my strategy.
    62:40
    After I miss it two or three times, I might actually have to start shooting other things. I'm just not that accurate. No, you're not. Those spinners are tight shots anyways. Yes, they are. So let's see. What else do we have? I'm looking at the news. We have, when will we – oh, this is from This Week in Pinball. Hi, Jeff. And we're recording on Sunday, so this is actually Tuesday stuff. So if some big breaking news comes out Monday, we're screwed. So we got monsters. When will we see monsters?
    63:10
    I've seen a few pictures. Oh, yeah, yeah. I guess we might be able to address that. Yeah, it looks like there was a leak, a monsters leak. Did you see the pictures, Bruce? Yeah, I saw them on, it was weird, they were like pictures of someone's cell phone that had the pictures on them, which was just bizarre. But they were pictures, there was a couple of cabinet pictures, which we had already seen.
    63:35
    But then there was another picture of the actual flyer. And then there was one playfield shot, close up, and then there was the full playfield shot. But it was like unpopulated, kind of. Yeah, and really grainy and tough to see anything. Yeah. And I guess the consensus was, man, it looks like, oh, they had the rule card.
    63:56
    And people are saying it seems like it's going to be very similar to Monster Bash. So is that a bad thing? No, I wouldn't say so. No. Yeah, me neither. So I don't know. It's going to be interesting.
    64:10
    I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, and according to this, it was interviewing Butch Patrick, who was the little kid in the show. I never watched the show. Eddie Munster. Oh, he's Eddie Munster. Okay. And he was saying they were going to unveil it in March, which seems a long way out. I don't know. What do you think, Bruce? Do you think that's actually going to happen, or do you think it's going to be unveiled before then? I think we're going to get surprised again. I think after the Beatles run, we're going to get us a, what are the old ones back again? A vault edition again. All right. I think we're going to get a vault to keep the line running, and I think we're going to get it in February. We'll know more about monsters. So what are they going to run as a vault? I don't know yet, but I've heard grumblings.
    64:59
    Care to elucidate or no? No, I don't know a game, but I've heard just a vault. All right. They keep the line running.
    65:07
    Interesting. So you heard it here first, folks, on the Slam Tilt Podcast. We are predicting again, or Bruce is anyway. A vault coming. Okay.
    65:17
    Let's see. The Jersey Jack pinball addresses minor out-of-box issues on Pirates. I haven't heard anything about that. Neither have I. No. Kind of lost interest in that game. Yep. What do you have at Sanctum? You have dialed in. Yep. Is that the only Jersey Jack game? Yeah, we had a Hobbit for a little while. Our operator loaned us one for a while to try out, and I just didn't enjoy it. I don't enjoy that layout. And the Beastmechs, it just seems like a mechanical nightmare to keep on location.
    65:54
    So, better or worse than Viper? I'm going to go worse than Viper. Agree. You heard it here, folks. Viper, superior to Hobbit. And once Viper gets the new code update, it's just going to totally take it to the next level. Well, there is a new code update for Viper. I just chose not to put it in. Yeah, you didn't. Why not? Don't you want the spinner to be worth more? But the thing is it gets out of hand because it's a playfield multiplier. The spinner maxes out at 160 points. But if you've got 9x playfield on there, that's – what is that? Let's see.
    66:33
    9 times 160, that's 1440 a spin. If you put the 10x ROM in there, then you're talking 15,000 a spin. Doesn't that have the weird thing, though, with the spinner? Like, it just, it's the value is whatever it was when it stopped spinning. Yeah, so as it's spinning through, it's scrolling from 40 to 160. And then as it stops, whatever that value is, the next time you do a rip on there, that's the value of it. So, you know, if it's on 160 and you have a 10X with a 9X and you're doing 15,000 a spin, you've seen this spinner on that game. I don't know how many spins you get at Revolution, or a shot, but it's a lot.
    67:17
    It's a stern spinner, so it spins. I can only imagine. You're getting 200 grand a spin. All right. I missed one thing about Beatles. There was another Beatles reveal at Modern Pinball.
    67:34
    Jack Danger was there, and they had the Beatles, and it was Jack Danger and Gary Stern was there and Zach Sharp was there and Cousin Brucie was there. Yep.
    67:50
    And they were all playing Beatles. And I believe he had a direct in for the sound so you could hear the music.
    67:59
    Which the funny thing is the first thing I thought of was like, oh, that video on demand, that's getting pulled. But he actually said at the beginning they've already got clearances and it's not going to get pulled. So I was like, okay. How were the Cousin Brucie call-outs in the game? I couldn't hear them in the one I was playing at Syracuse. That was another issue. It wasn't up that loud.
    68:21
    But the thing I just thought of, I'm going to go to the Pinball Princesses' Twitch channel and see on the video on demand if perhaps they may have muted out the Beatles at all. I'm just curious. It seems to happen pretty quick to think of it that way. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And usually it'll say right on the bottom, it's no.
    68:46
    No, no, no. It does not look like it has been muted out. Interesting. Because I know I put like the goofy video I put up saying it was like the Primus reveal.
    69:00
    And it was like me and Zach playing some pre-war game called Fleet Junior. And I was playing Primus in the background. I got a copyright hit on that immediately. but it's one of those it wasn't like we're pulling your video it was more like it was it was more like the like you can't monetize this like okay that's not a problem i don't monetize any of my videos anyway then that's all they did so it's it's still out there but the funny thing is i had uploaded a full version of fleet junior stream that we did and it wasn't even public i had it an unlisted link and it had copyright violation on it. It's like, wow, I didn't even make it public and it's already getting a hit.
    69:43
    Yikes. Yeah, yikes. See, that's all I got for news. I'd like to give a shout out to Jason Floor, a former guest on the show. He had won a dialed in t-shirt in a medium size. For those who know Jason, that is not going to fit him.
    70:01
    But he thought of me because he knows I own a dialed in. and he knows I'm a little shit that I am said you know do you want the t-shirt it's like are you going to be at league night at Mr. Russell's on this date like sure like bring the shirt so I got myself a dialed in t isn that great Bruce isn that great Jim why don you explain to Bruce why dialed in is awesome I thoroughly enjoy the game but full disclosure we are thinking about selling ours
    70:33
    Better or worse than Viper? It's better than Viper. There you go. I guess that's a, I lost in one. Yeah, it's a good game, but I, I haven't put the new code on. I've got it loaded up. I'm putting it on tomorrow.
    70:49
    But as far as playing the game goes, I think you're still going to kind of go the same strategies. Which are bad? What's wrong with them? They're not bad, but I just feel that the rest of the game, I'm not really shooting for the theater stuff, you know, or the drone magnet stuff.
    71:09
    You know, there's just a, I'm not really shooting for that stuff. Not until you're having a really long game where you've hit that stuff accidentally enough that you happen into those modes. okay oh well i i like it i like the modes i i like the layout um i mean we we've had ours over a year and a half now um so it's just time to move on to something else agree well that's another thing about how how often you find you cycling games in and out Like, I remember from the 24 last year, if you go, like, on the other side of where the Sanctum is, if you walk out, like, in a hallway, you'll see, like, the games that didn't make it in. Either they may be broke or whatever. And I remember seeing Nineball. Like, ooh, Nineball. They got Nineball. And then this year when I went over there, I was like, hey, look, Nineball. It's still there. Damn it. Where's Nineball? I want Nineball at the Sanctum. I just I have a hard time trusting it in competition those switches they act up at the most inopportune times keeping track of the balls I have to agree actually for the more casual weekly league stuff if something happens I don't sweat it too much but for a big tournament like that I don't want to be dealing with that it was suitable if I needed to if I needed a backup game of that era I would have given it a try until we can get the other one back online.
    72:42
    But I just wanted to avoid that headache. Any particular games you're looking for? You can just say it there in your podcast. We have just thousands and thousands of listeners, and someone might come forward. You guys are hoarding all the dragon fists.
    73:02
    Well, according to all the people who played IFPA, it's the easiest game ever anyway. You don't want it. You don't want it there. That center post, you know, it's easy. Yeah. No, just classic sterns. I'm working my way trying to get them all. I'm like halfway there, I think.
    73:18
    Nice. And you have a stars, so that's key. I do have a stars, yep. And I got a few more at home, too, that are works and progresses that aren't up there yet. Let's just say someone has a classic Stern, and they just want to get it off their hands, and they want to sell it to you. How can they reach you?
    73:41
    Just message me on the Facebook page. You can find me, Jim Sanctum, on the Facebook. What happens if I'm not on Facebook?
    73:50
    You can email me at ctpinsanctum at gmail.com. Just trying to help you get that collection together. That would be nice. any particular ones you really want like you probably want a quicksilver i would assume because everyone i may have to build one i'm i'm building two electronomels right now but i may turn may just sacrifice one of them to be a quicksilver all the parts are coming around so that's true it's as we saw with stargazer it's like if you can't find one build one as long as you get the play fields and supposedly the play fields are coming yeah i think uh mirko is doing those pretty soon.
    74:28
    I've got to debate whether or not I want to consider Orbiter 1 having the whole collection or not. Is it pinball or is it novelty?
    74:38
    Novelty. Well, you could argue I mean, if you watch Bowen played it, it looks skillful. There's at least one video on YouTube that shows someone who actually figured out how to trap on it.
    74:49
    So, you know. If you were forced to play in a tournament, how would you feel? I'd be pissed. no seriously i'd be pissed because yeah i think it has lock stealing too if i recall technically if you lock a ball i think if you complete the bank at the top i think it starts multi-ball whether you're the one to lock the ball or not i think i i haven't played i used to play it at scott's all the time he had if you do have it i would say at least get scott's rom which basically turns it into a three-ball game instead of the original rules,
    75:25
    which are basically you get a minimal amount of time, or a set, like you're going to play at least this long. That's how the default ROM is.
    75:37
    Yeah, I play it once a year at Pinberg. I play one or two games for fun with a few people, and then that's the extent of it. Yeah, I think that's cool the first couple times you play it, and then it's like Yeah, I wouldn't want to have to play this in an actual skill situation. No. So, Bruce, what's going on at the Silver Ball Saloon?
    75:58
    It's a pretty quiet night tonight. It was too nice of weather out here. We actually hit 60 degrees in Rochester today. Yeah, it was very weird. So I think everyone got everything together and just did their yard work and trees and everything like that and just... dude why go out have fun we did we did have a trivia tonight and i was working on uh gamitron again wait what's wrong with gamitron one of the scrs i think locked on or got so all screwed up because all of a sudden i had no sound which is another issue i just figured out with Zach, and then like half my, a quarter of my lights were locked on or missing. Went into track mode, but they were never before that, so I grabbed another board, swapped it over with the light board, and now it's working.
    76:57
    And then all of a sudden I lost sound when I was in there, and I think when I was moving around I bumped one of the wires and ripped off the 12-volt voltage lead going into the board. So we fixed that, and we're up and running again now.
    77:15
    What does that use for a soundboard? It uses – no, it's a mutation of an SP300. It's actually part CPU, part soundboard. So what they do is actually they move the CPU to 6800 chip into the sound board, and then you have a ribbon cable coming from the CPU to the mutated SB300 board.
    77:44
    And it's really weird. It's a hodgepodge. I know a lot of people who can't keep them running, and then they just use an all-tech and a sound with the SB300 board.
    77:55
    But we're not trying to do that. We're not trying to do that. We're trying to keep the mutated board, and Zach got it working, and it's been working pretty well, which is good. And it's been holding up at the bar pretty good until today. Any other casualties from the anniversary party?
    78:15
    Yeah. One switch on blackjack. That was it. I had to adjust the saucer hole. That was it. That's pretty good. Yeah. All right. And where's Silver Ball Saloon again? At 135 West Commercial Street in East Rochester, New York. All right. So we're going to finish up with the mail ball bag here. Oh, boy. And we're going to have Bruce read them all. No, I'm just kidding. No.
    78:42
    All right. Let's see what we got here. We got, this is from Shannon. Hello, Shannon. This is, hello, gentlemen. I'm sure the appreciation for what you do is pouring in and decided to share. My two cents as well. Thank you for all the time put into the Slamto Podcast. I will miss the weekly sharing of real pinball knowledge, interviews, and maintenance repair tips. Any chance you could update your YouTube channel with some updates to your respective game rooms, guys? Ron, your collection is tilted a bit to the classics and, um, and D.O. dialed in. Bruce, any chance to do a walkthrough of the Silver Ball Saloon given your anniversary? I know more work. Thanks for all you do, Shannon. Well, Shannon, you're in luck because guess what I did today? I filmed the Silver Ball Saloon with Bruce as your horse-sounding guide. Yep. Yeah. I got the whole building. That will be uploaded actually by the time this airs. That will be already on our YouTube channel. So just go to YouTube. look for Slam Tilt Podcast. And then we also have, I'll just do another one of my game room. You'll get to see all the games that aren't ready yet, or the ones that are apart.
    80:00
    But I'll hopefully have both of those up there before I actually, before this episode is released. So they should be there for you. So enjoy. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Then we have, this is from Greg. Hi, Greg. the subject line of Cosmic Princess Fixed. It says, good day, fellas.
    80:23
    Australian, I'm assuming. Yes. I am very sad to hear you are putting the Q in the rack. I like that, the Q in the rack. I've got to remember that one. I totally understand and accept your decision. It is a huge amount of work, and Ron's passion has gone. Wow. Well, it's not totally gone. No, it's gone. I had somebody else comment about how you don't want to help out other people in your own area, but you complained that there's no pinball in Albany. What? Somebody said that you were complaining that I don't want to be helping people out and I don't want people to know that I work on pinball or I can work on pinball. But you don't want to grow to hobby in Albany. You say there's no pinball in Albany. You need to be the leader. When did I say that? Was that the last episode? Yes, it was. Oh, yeah. I think I said that myself. I'm sorry.
    81:14
    Yes, yes. I'll tell you, the league I am in, I am a terrible league player. Well, I've offered my game room, but that's kind of fallen on deaf ears. But I really should be more, what's the word? A leader. And helping people out in the league and stuff like that, because I suck. That's what it boils down to. Is that your own league? It's not even that. It's like if you watch the Beatles stream with Steph. She's like helping people out, playing the game and all that. I would probably probably stand there like an idiot.
    81:52
    I suck, folks. You heard it here. Oh, let me continue. You are my favorite podcast, except Ron. I don't listen to the others. You are a huge part of the field from the early solid state onwards, tournament, pinball, repairs. You do great interviews with industry and players, and I love the chemistry between you two. Except when Bruce is yelling at me. He's so mean. If you do more shows, by all means, make them shorter. That helps. E.g., you don't have to entertain me with face-off segments, etc. Maybe trying to, wait a minute, maybe bring in the odd EM experts so we can pick up their passion and tips for collecting and repairing. Who do you think the odd EM expert is?
    82:30
    Zachariah. You think that's Zach? Yeah. Well, it can only be one of two people. Or it could be Nick. It's got to be Zach or Nick. So, that's fine. I'm trying to think of which one that is. Hey, Greg, email us back and tell us who you're talking about there. I'm just curious. Thanks for all the great times. Driving in my car won't be the same without you two alongside me. P.S. I found the switch issue with my Cosmic Princess, the left spinner that was firing the right slingshot. I cut off all the caps, replaced the diodes in the switch column, checked continuity for a short, checked the connectors. None of this helped. Then I noticed that if I touched the spinner switch without closing it and registering a switch head, the right slingshot would still fire. Turns out a previous owner had put a bolt through the spinner post and secured it under the playfield on the drop target assembly. There was continuity from the switch up the spinner and down the post. The spinner switch was shorting on the drop target assembly.
    83:30
    PPS, I think I might replace the bulb holders on my CP, Cosmic Princess. If you are going to do the whole lot, what is the technique you would use to get through as quickly as possible? And what do you do about the bulb holders attached to a plate, e.g. the big target bank in nine ball? I have a few that are dodgy and don't know what to do about them. Cheers, Gray.
    83:53
    Bulb holder. Oh, he probably means the sockets. Yes. Yeah. Get the kit. Yeah. Throw the plates away. Yeah. Well, he's got a Cosmic Princess, so he doesn't really have an option. That's true. Yeah. You should talk to the guy who makes those. I bet he'd be open to working on trying to make it. Yeah. Just if you search the Google for like – I should have the site because I freaking ordered one, but I don't remember it off the top of my head. But he sells Big Game, and there was another one. He sells two.
    84:29
    Oh, Nineball. He sells big game and nine ball plates. So just look that up on Google. You'll find them. It's pretty easy. Maybe just get in touch with him and see if he'll do a Cosmic Princess. Who knows?
    84:42
    Pinballreplacementparts.com. Thank you. Our guests are more prepared than the hosts. Yeah, and what you can also do, it depends if, I don't know what the light matrix looks like on there, But if it's a deal where they're far enough apart, the inserts, you may be able to just get rid of the plate and replace them with regular sockets.
    85:04
    Maybe not. But like on my Dragon Fist, they're too close together, so I'm kind of screwed. But like on Cheetah, it uses a light board, and I was able to just get rid of it and just put individual sockets in so I never have to worry about that again.
    85:19
    So what technique would you use to get through it as quickly as possible? It's going to be painful any way you do it. I don't know of any quick way. You're going to have to desolder the old ones, get them out. You're going to have to wear like the ground braid solders on to the tab or where it screws in. You're going to have to rough that up a bit so the solder will stick. Some people use sandpaper. You can use a metal file. It's just going to be very tedious, pain in the ass work.
    85:48
    But the benefit is your sockets will work as long as you're in the game after that. I agree. So thank you, Greg.
    85:57
    Then we have one that just came in. See which verses stars. Who do you think this is from? Steph. The Pinball Princess. That is correct.
    86:08
    So Steph says, Dear Ron and Bruce, Slowly but surely I'm catching up on the podcast. I'm trying to pace myself to listen quickly enough so that I actually catch up, but not so quickly as I stop enjoying things. It's like savoring a fine wine, where one does not just gulp down a fancy vintage, but consumes it slowly, enjoying the fine notes of quick wit, good banter, and the indescribable hint of Brucism. Yeah, lots of Brucisms. Or maybe this is just cheap wine, and I am really bad at holding my liquor in large doses. I don't know. I didn't come here to write metaphors. I'm actually writing in response to something said long, long ago in episode 109 with Ryan C. In the episode, you guys had to choose between Sea Witch and Stars. One of the anti-Sea Witch arguments was the loop geometry is flawed because the loop is not repeatable. I agree with Ron that the loop is repeatable, though it is somewhat difficult, at least at my skill level. However, I must also agree that Sea Witch has quirky loop geometry, at least on my copy. It is knee impossible to complete the loop or even get the ball halfway up the thing from the upper left flipper, which that's the thing you can do in Beatles, by the way. I have seen copies where the loop is inexplicably makeable from the lower left flipper. On one specific copy, any flipper can make the loop. It makes no damn sense, and I need to get mine to do that. But for mine, it dies just after the shooter lane cover rail, which I suspect steals all of the momentum from the ball. I will grant that this could very well be operator error on my part, as I have pretty much no idea what I'm doing most of the time. as a critique for stars since bruce said he's heard none the placement of the lower stars irks me a bit in particular the lower left star i find it awkward to hit of course any qualms one might have with the geometry of stars is hard to distinguish from the small fact that the game is mercilessly brutal and no matter what you're doing you're a dead man walking looking forward to how this whole this or that pans out regardless the see which geek in me just needed to rant for a bit wishing a happy anniversary, question mark, birthday, question mark, to the Silver Ball Saloon. Player 31915.
    88:21
    Thank you, Steph. That empties out the mail ball bag. Oh. And being I hear my echo, that means Bruce is back on his shitty cell phone. No, I'm not on my cell phone. Well, what are you on? I'm on my headset. How come I can keep hearing myself, though? Because you're so magnetic and so boisterous.
    88:43
    Okay. I'm magnetic and boisterous. Yes. Everyone loves to be next to you. Hmm. Okay. I'm not as magnetic and boisterous as Kiss, obviously. I was looking at some of the crap they're charging for their final tour. Like you could buy a guitar from Gene Simmons, Bruce, that was used in concert. Did you know that? Uh, yeah. Like every time. Did you know that, Bruce? I did know that, Gene. Thank you for telling me. How much are you charging me? Well, the price fluctuates depending on what song I played it on. and whether or not it was the one I spit fire. And if any blood gets on the guitar, it costs more. Wow. I'm not making this up, by the way. I know you're not. Are you a greedy son of a bitch, Gene? Yeah, we're talking like when it was like $21,000 for the guitar. Well, no, that was the – sorry, that was the Paul Stanley one.
    89:34
    The Gene ones were actually cheaper for whatever. But at least it is the hatchet bass thing, you know, his one that looks like a hatchet or whatever. Yes, the axe. The Axe, sorry. Yes, the Axe. How could I not get that right, Bruce? I'm sorry. Will you be watching our farewell tour? It's only like our third or fourth one. And I think you're into now year two of the farewell tour you're going to have. Yeah, I think it's like a two-year farewell tour. Plus they're using backing tracks because they can't sing anymore. No, they're terrible. Yeah. Their most famous album, their live album, is not even live. I still don't understand what you ever saw on Kiss, Bruce. I don't care. You have a lot of hate. Yes. I don't get it. I don't know. I don't either. So, okay. The band KISS, better or worse than Viper?
    90:21
    Worse. Wait. The band KISS is, yeah, worse than Viper. They're worse than Viper. There you go. They're not even the same. It doesn't matter. They're worse than Viper. Viper is better than KISS. I'd rather play Viper than see KISS. Oh, yes!
    90:37
    Oh my god, Jim. What's the matter with you? Don't you know KISS is the most entertaining band in the universe?
    90:44
    Oh, sure, sure. Keep telling yourself that. Yeah, if I want to see Clowns, Bruce, I can go to the circus.
    90:52
    That's up to you. I mean, they look old now with the makeup on. That's when you know it's time to stop.
    90:59
    Okay, we stressed poor Bruce's voice enough. Yes, you have. Yes. You bastards. I'd like to thank Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thanks, Wayne, for coming on. Thanks for having me. Go Sanctum. Again, where is the Sanctum? 290 Pratt Street, Meriden, Connecticut. Go there Mondays. Check their Facebook page to make sure they're open, but they're open most Mondays. Go to the Sanctum and the Silver Ball Saloon, which is located at what, Bruce?
    91:27
    135 West Commercial Street in East Rochester, New York. Come on down. We've got 26 pinball machines, bowling pool, foosball, video games, and good food. Ron had a burger today. Yep. I didn't have it at where I play league. I had it at Bruce's because it is so much better. Thank you. So, again, thanks to all our friends of the show. We have, well, hi, Zach. We have the Riptide Pinball Podcast, which came out with their latest episode. We have Pinball Profile, Jeff Teolis, Pinball Players Podcast. We have Mrs. Pin. Have Fun with Bonus. Hi, Steve. We have This Week in Pinball. Did I miss anyone? Am I good? No. Jeff D'Olof. Oh, Mrs. Penn. I said Mrs. Penn. Okay, well, make sure I didn't hear it. You didn't hear it. When I just, Jim, did you hear me say it? Oh, he totally said it. Yeah. Okay. Did you have me on mute? Maybe. Both ways. So you mute me audio, too, so you can't hear me. Yes. Okay. What? Yeah, exactly.
    92:30
    So, all friends of the show, we have Joe Newhart of Pinball Star Amusements. Go to him for all your non-stern pinball purchasing needs. And we have Flipper Fidelity, Mike Pupal. Use his sound systems in your games. He's also a stern distributor. Thanks, everyone. This has been Episode 119, The Third Flash. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Mark Smith.
    93:06
    Oh my, oh my, oh my, you can fool me if you try. Oh my, oh my, there's guarantee to keep you alive. Oh my, oh my. Oh my.
    93:40
    Oh my.