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The Pinball Podcast Episode 221 - Ball is Life

The Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·59m 46s·analyzed·Oct 18, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Tee'd Off Podcast 221: Pinball Expo prep with Alien Ripley, Elton John rumors, and classic game rankings.

Summary

Episode 221 of Tee'd Off (The Pinball Podcast) features hosts discussing personal experiences, upcoming Pinball Expo announcements, and classic pinball game reviews. Major news includes confirmation of a Ripley-themed Alien sequel, rumors of an Elton John game by Jersey Jack Pinball, Home Pin's new Labyrinth game, and the cancellation of Circus Maximus's kingpin project. The hosts debate classic games using their 'Nailed It / Tee'd Off / Bricked It' framework.

Key Claims

  • Circus Maximus is canceling their kingpin project and will not continue forward

    high confidence · Host stating this has been public for a few weeks

  • There is a Ripley version of Alien in development with new film clips and Sigourney Weaver involved in artwork

    high confidence · Host heard this 'today' and expects to see it at Pinball Expo; pending final license approval

  • Alien pinball will release version 4 of the software that works with all models

    high confidence · Host discussing continued code support post-release

  • Jersey Jack Pinball may announce an Elton John game at Pinball Expo

    medium confidence · Host describes this as 'rumor' that 'seems to be nearly confirmed but not officially confirmed'

  • Home Pin is making pinball that's not for pinball people

    high confidence · Host quoting Home Pin's stated design goal

  • Home Pin's Labyrinth has pricing of $10,600 and $11,500 for editions

    high confidence · Host providing specific pricing information

  • Labyrinth has limited Bowie artwork, absent from playfield and side arch, and missing from special mirrored back glass edition

    medium confidence · Host observation based on promotional materials seen

  • Lloyd Olson from Space Station Billiards has helped most people in pinball repair/diagnostics, with presence dating back to rec.games.pinball Usenet forum

    high confidence · Host met him and provided extensive background

  • The Godfather pinball is extremely easy, with first ball lasting 20 minutes

    medium confidence · Host's personal gameplay experience

  • Star Wars Pinball has too many color-grid mechanics that interrupt fast, flowy gameplay with frequent stops

Notable Quotes

  • “I think Lloyd has probably chimed in on 99% of all pinball threads posted to the internet where someone needed help.”

    Host A @ early segment — Demonstrates Lloyd Olson's legendary status in community support and diagnostics

  • “if Ripley was here... apparently new film clips and she's involved in some of the art”

    Host A @ news segment — Confirms Sigourney Weaver involvement in new Alien Ripley variant

  • “I hope that the topper is just a gigantic pair of really gaudy glasses... you could put LCD screens in those lenses and have them display really cool things”

    Host B @ Elton John speculation — Creative speculation on potential Elton John game topper design

  • “For the good of all of Pindom, it must crash [the topper economy]”

    Host A @ topper discussion — Commentary on expensive topper pricing ($1,500 noted as cost of used machine)

  • “Home Pin saying that they're making pinball that's not for pinball people and of course the obvious response being you already did that because you made Thunderbirds”

    Host B @ news segment — Critical take on Home Pin's design philosophy and prior track record

  • “Bowie deficient... There's not enough Bowie... Bowie's on the back glass, but then if you go get the special edition mirrored back glass, no Bowie. That's a hard cut.”

    Host B @ Labyrinth discussion — Specific critique of Labyrinth art licensing/distribution across editions

  • “Stern AC/DC (Premium) is probably still one of my top 10 sterns ever maybe creeping top 5 still”

    Host B @ game ranking segment — High ranking for Stern AC/DC as contemporary reference point

  • “if you were Tee'd Off, like, take classic pinball and just visualize it in your head, it's going Tee'd Off look very close Tee'd Off that game... Captain Fantastic”

    Host B — Defines Captain Fantastic as archetypal classic pinball design

Entities

Lloyd OlsonpersonRob AnthonypersonNick MadsenpersonSteve BowenpersonPhil GrimaldipersonPaul DanielpersonSigourney WeaverpersonCircus Maximuscompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Circus Maximus kingpin project cancelled after being public for 'a few weeks'

    high · Host confirms project is 'dead' and expresses appreciation for attempt but notes pinball manufacturing difficulty

  • ?

    community_signal: Tee'd Off podcast attending Pinball Expo in Chicago with booth 140, planning live recording and coverage from floor

    high · Host confirms 'we'll be recording live from the floor' and 'Double Jack Danger booth is booth number 140'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Led Zeppelin Pinball described as disappointing with new spinner mechanic leaving game 'naked' and 'neutered' despite Zeppelin being top-5 favorite band for host

    high · Host describes as 'slop shot' that's 'flat' and 'just doesn't click' despite band preference; unfavorably compared to Stern AC/DC Premium

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Star Wars Pinball criticized for excessive color-grid mechanics that interrupt fast, flowy gameplay with constant stops requiring screen reading

    high · Host describes playing Star Wars multiple times with observation: 'stop go mixed with breakneck speed is so odd' and 'so many indicators... you don't have time to look at those'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Labyrinth criticized for insufficient David Bowie artwork presence; absent from playfield, side arch, and special edition mirrored back glass

    high · Host states 'Bowie deficient... not enough Bowie... Bowie's on the back glass, but if you get special edition mirrored back glass, no Bowie. That's a hard cut.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.179

0:00
you're listening to the pinball podcast episode 221 yeah you are hi you are happy episode 221 i know we made it i don't know how we made it i feel like this is a milestone even though that's not actually a milestone I mean, at my age, every day is a milestone.
0:33
I mean, for us, recording any episode is truly an occasion. It really is. To be celebrated. To be tolerated.
0:44
I'll take it. I'll take what I can get. Okay. How have you been? What's been going on with you? Oh, things have been my normal up and down, but I've had a lot of really high highs since the last recording. Excellent. Yeah. Some pinball related, some just like life related.
1:05
We went down to Vegas for opening weekend of that, the sphere opening. We saw the U2 show. Oh, how was the sphere? It looks really interesting, like visually very interesting. It was bonkers. Crazy. Cool.
1:20
It was kind of one of those things that, okay, they're really smart with it. Like the visuals are quite overwhelming. Like they're everywhere, but it's just not visual. If the sound is ridiculously cool, um, they have like ambient atmosphere, atmospheric, uh, effects. So smells, uh, they're very subtle. So not like all of a sudden you get this real strange, strong smell of fake popcorn or something like that. But, um, the way that they used it is there are scenes that look like you're outside and they crank up the air conditioner, for example. So you feel like a light breeze blowing across you and it smells like desert air. It's amazing. I mean, the whole thing was nuts. But yeah, I've been reborn in the belly of the sphere.

medium confidence · Host's repeated gameplay impressions across multiple occasions

@ game ranking segment
Jersey Jack Pinball
company
Home Pincompany
Alien (Ripley variant)game
Elton John (rumored)game
Labyrinthgame
The Godfathergame
Star Wars (Stern)game
Venom (Stern)game
AC/DC (Stern Premium/Pro Vault)game
Led Zeppelingame
Captain Fantasticgame
Flash Gordongame
Blackoutgame
Spectrumgame
Pinball Expoevent
Pinball Olympicsevent
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Home Pin publicly stating goal of making pinball that is 'not for pinball people' with implied critique that this mirrors prior Thunderbirds approach

    high · Host quoting Home Pin with sarcastic response: 'of course the obvious response being you already did that because you made Thunderbirds'

  • ?

    announcement: Home Pin reveals Labyrinth game with David Bowie theme at $10,600-$11,500 pricing; gameplay video released with Steve Bowen

    high · Host confirms 'they just released... gameplay video with Bowen' and 'Labyrinth... is confirmed' for Pinball Expo

  • ?

    announcement: Alien Ripley pinball confirmed with Sigourney Weaver involvement, new film clips, and version 4 software update

    high · Host states 'they're making a Ripley version of Alien' with 'new film clips and she's involved in some of the art' and expects display at Pinball Expo

  • ?

    product_strategy: Alien pinball version 4 software release continuing post-launch support for all game models

    high · Host states 'they're going to have their version four of the software, but that will obviously work with all the models' emphasizing continued support

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Jersey Jack Pinball may announce Elton John-themed game at Pinball Expo with space theme

    medium · Host describes as 'rumor' that 'seems to be nearly confirmed but not officially confirmed' with space-themed teaser visible; will be revealed during Expo

    • 2:02
    A stronger, not much wiser, but slightly more capable man. That's very cool. It was a fun trip. Nice. I'm glad you made it. Yeah. And then more on the lightly pinball related side. I was in Minneapolis just over this past weekend for a wedding. and I got to meet someone, a person I've never met in the hobby before. If I were to tell you this person, I would say easily top three all time, that's helped the most people in pinball, like on the repair or diagnostics side of things. Who would you think I may have met? Oh, my gosh. I feel like there are a lot of them. There are. I met Rob Anthony at Texas and then again in Florida, and he's been amazing. He helped us with our Pink Panther board, and I know he helps a ton of people. Rob Anthony would be in the Mount Rushmore of helpfulness for sure. I've already met Rob Anthony many times before, so it was not him.
    3:15
    Okay. You get two more guesses, and then you're going to say, of course. Yeah, I know. I know I will. um well nick baldridge is like an obvious oh he is a pinball yeah seriously um oh let's see i feel like i'm going to be embarrassed you won't be i i was talking like over about this i thought she may not get it because there's so many people and everyone's experiences were funneled through like different avenues of health but it depends on kind of where you've spent your pinball time but Yeah, my brain is like all over the place right now. I'm just trying to think. Okay, who was it? It was Lloyd Olson. You know, everyone's seen the LTG sign off on Pinside, but going way back to rec.games.pinball, he had his neon goose out in front of his place, SS Billiards. I think Lloyd has probably chimed in on 99% of all pinball threads posted to the internet where someone needed help.
    4:18
    I have never met Lloyd. He will be at Expo, so you have a chance. Rectify the situation. But he was super nice, super cool. I got to play Godfather the first time there. What did you think?
    4:33
    So I thought it was fun. I thought it shot well, but I thought it was incredibly easy. I think my first ball lasted like 20 minutes.
    4:43
    And that's one of those things that even though I'm seeing coolest stuff, I'm getting to see like all the modes and that's neat. It would drive me nuts to, I would have to like bastardize that game and make it incredibly hard, super steep, pull posts and do whatever I need to do to make it ridiculous. But yeah, it was neat. It was cool. It just, it was far too much on the easy side of things. Yeah.
    5:14
    I'll agree with that. It hands you a lot of cool shots. There was a lot of cool things that it did. Was not bad pinball. Well, I'm glad you got to play it. Yeah. I also got to play Venom, but I played that, I don't know, a few weeks ago. Yeah.
    5:31
    And something about Venom is going to come up later, but I'll tell you, I don't like it. I think there's some aspects of it I really like. I like how it cycles the balls with the weird lock stuff. Yeah, the staging areas, yeah. Yeah, I played the pro, and it was just like backhanded combo and lots of that. But then also, I just felt like there were like six shots, and that was it. So, yeah, I've played the pro and the Ellie.
    6:08
    And I will say that it it's one of those things where I just kind of play it. And then like the people around me on the couple of occasions that people have been around when I played it have been like, oh, well, you need to do this color of all this thing. And then you move to this other. And I'm just like, am I playing Spectrum right now? I don't understand what's going on with this color grid. I was just playing, and I like the staging areas. I think it's interesting, but it also interrupts the flow of what's a very fast game generally. There's a lot of stopping, which makes my brain super confused because it's very fast and flowy, but then it stops all the time. Yes, it does. And also, it kind of has a little bit of a Stuller's effect. There's so many indicators of what you need to do up on the screen that you don't have time to look at those. You have to. I've never looked up. You have to go into the next combo after each shot immediately, or you're missing whatever opportunity you're supposed to be scoring for, which you don't have the opportunity to look up and notice anyway. So, but I, I will say some of the shots feel really good. I just wish I had more to do on it. And yes, the stop go mixed with the breakneck speed is so odd. Yeah. It keeps you on your toes though. I mean, I can't say that I didn't enjoy playing it. I've played it probably a dozen times. Yeah. And I've had some like shockingly horrible games on it where I'm just like, and then I've had where I've actually done something, but I didn't know how I did it. And I was like, Oh, that's not bad. But I think if I could wrap my head around it without having to look up at the screen a little bit better than I might enjoy it more. So I may just need more time with it, which is how I tend to go with new games. Like if I don't, if I don't have a good understanding of what I'm supposed to be doing, then it makes it more challenging. But I, you know, as soon as we get into, like you said, the Star Wars, like so many different sets of colors, but like you have to do the color things together. Otherwise, it doesn't actually progress anywhere that my brain is just like, it takes me a second to get to get there. I think you either need to pick a game that's very deliberate, flowing one shot to the next, or you need to pick a stop and go game. And combining the two, it just feels weird. And I think we just have that there. I did play Spectrum last week. It's funny you mention that. Yeah? Yeah. I love Spectrum. Oh, Spectrum's wild. Yeah, it's a great game. But you didn't hear it. That was the thing is I could not hear it.
    8:52
    But it was funny because it was at our league night, and everybody played it like, well, that was wild, and they didn't know exactly what happened. But after everybody had cycled through their turns and they were going back, and then they were understanding the color coding and stuff, and all of a sudden it was the coolest game there, you know?
    9:09
    If you can hear Spectrum, it is so much fun, and it's one of those games where you have to be so deliberate with your, you know, placement and things, and that's really when you actually start to play the games when you get into that. But the first time that I ever played it, or the stretch of time that I ever played it, was on location at C-Bar in Portland, and a lot of the times it was too loud to hear what was going on. but there were a few like quiet times I had with it. I was like, Oh, this is what this game is. I love it. This is why everyone, it's great. Yeah. This is why it's a game that does so well in someone's home, but on location, people just get so confused. They're like, I don't know. I shot the ball up and then for some reason it drained down my flip rolls. Yeah.
    9:57
    But the last little thing I forgot, I forgot to mention this like the last two or three shows. I may have mentioned it to you, but I don't think it did on the show. Jamie keeps reminding me to talk about it. I picked up a Blackout.
    10:09
    Ooh. And it's in great shape. It looks so nice. Nice. Perfect back glass. And I do like that game quite a bit. Me too. The only thing it needs is just to adjust the pop bumpers to give them some more kick. But other than that, it is like a true 9 out of 10 game condition-wise. So that's one I'm going to keep around. I think that one's a fun one to compete on if you make it nice and tough. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. So I'm happy with that pickup.
    10:42
    That's a great pickup. Congrats. You just don't see it very often anymore. No. I'm trying to build this weird eclectic collection, you know. That's part of that goal.
    10:54
    Welcome to my world. I got into a pinball league, and we're playing weekly. We have it tonight. and I'm doing really well. I'm like out of, I think there's 40 something players. I'm in the top five or six right now.
    11:09
    Are you playing Warpin Mall than I am? I don't know. What happened? It's rare that I've been playing outside of league except for, yeah, I did go to Lloyd's place.
    11:21
    But I don't know. That's weird. I think maybe you can tell us what you've been doing and we'll see why. um let's see well the things that i've been doing have mostly been non-binball based um most excitingly i went and saw depeche mode and yeah um i sprung for for the good the good stuff and i was maybe five feet away from the end of the little catwalk that dave and martin come out on. And it was so good. It was so good. I was just completely overwhelmed. And apparently, like I was dancing my ass off and I flew some wild arms and hit the lady next to me and didn't notice. Sorry, sorry. But it was so incredible. They just, I'm not going to say they don't age because obviously humans age, but their performance doesn't, you know, like the energy that they have, I wish you know just to have what they still got it it's still going and I still get really flummoxed thinking about it and their new album is incredible so I was very very happy to hear new stuff being played and oh my god I loved it just like top to bottom amazing night I would want to go do it a million times again like you tell me every night is Depeche Mode night I'm going super fun and then um there's you know i've been nerding out on escape rooms for the past year or so and um there's a place in orlando called the escape ventures and they're like one of the best places in florida they're one of the best in the country and they opened a new location out like on the other coast of florida down in port charlotte so um made the trek out there um to well there's some top secret goings on that, that I'm helping with, um, that I can't talk about yet, but I will talk about soon, but also to play their new game. And it's, uh, it's called Phantom Files. So it's kind of a Ghostbusters-esque sort of thing. Um, and it was so cute and so much fun. So if you're into escape rooms and you're in Florida, go and play it because it's just so great. It was so much fun. Um, but yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing aside from working an obscene amount of hours, um, with seemingly nothing to show for it. No, there's things to show for it, but you know how you get yourself into a hole where it's just work, work, work, and then you lift your head up and you're like, wait, what, what just happened? where did life go? Yeah, exactly. Um, but it's all kind of been in preparation, um, because we've got some fun stuff coming up like Chicago. Yes,
    14:24
    we do. Uh, that's this weekend, which I really hope happens after this episode goes out because it's Monday. I've talked about it a few times in the show trying to get the show ported over to a different host and get us up on Spotify and anywhere else we're missing it's the current host's fault never mind really hard we're trying so hard but yes Expo this weekend and one of us will be there It true And you won be disappointed It me
    15:03
    Yeah. So soft plunge, double danger booth is a booth number one 40. We're kind of kitty corner to the American pinball booth. So if you can find them, you can probably find us. It's kind of tucked over in a little corner.
    15:17
    But we'll be there with swag. So at least come say hello, please. I'm never going to force anyone or tell anyone that they should please, please buy things. It's nice. I will. You buy her stuff, people. But I would genuinely like to see and talk to humans because I don't get to do that a lot these days. But, yeah, it was not something that was necessarily planned on for a long time and more, I don't want to say spur of the moment but within the last like two months decided that it's actually happening so we'll be driving so making the trip up there and leaving tonight so hopefully I'll be there by the time this episode comes out putting deadlines on things yeah so hopefully make it up to Nashville in the first leg of the trip and then from there up to Chicago. But I'm trying to push for Paducah, Kentucky to go eat at this restaurant. I've wanted to eat at for a long time. So I'm turning our 10-hour day into a 12-hour day for food's sake. Stretch, stretch, stretch. Yeah. But my friend Daniel and his wife, Nicole, who we stayed with in Australia, they will be there, which is so exciting. So getting to hang out with them will be amazing. and he, kindly enough, got me a ticket to the Pinball Olympics, so I finally get to go. Oh, fun, fun. I can't wait.
    16:57
    Go and do what we do on this show and get second. I'm not even playing to compete. I just want to do all of the ridiculous things that Jay has set up. I can't wait. That's the other thing. Yeah. The few that I've done at Pinberg, like when he would bring them there, are just so much fun. I can't stop talking. I talk about them all the time. I've tried to do my own pinball and fix back with bells. And just any time someone will let me bastardize a machine and make it really weird to play, I love doing it. So an entire day of this, yes, please. I cannot wait. I couldn't be more excited.
    17:34
    I'm excited for you. That would be a blast. Next time? I don't know if I'm going again, but next time yeah, you come with me and we'll go to Pinball Olympics. Definitely.
    17:46
    Okay, it's a deal. You heard it here first. Team Pinball Podcast. We can get custom trackies made. I would love that.
    18:00
    Like it's day three of Expo you're still wearing them? Yep. I love it. And there's so much, like, I know we don't usually talk about pinball news, but there's actual stuff happening. I was not aware.
    18:18
    Oh, all right. Okay. Let's go with the oldest one first. Here, I'll do the bummer, and then you can do the cool stuff.
    18:31
    We'll alternate. You need to get some cool stuff, too, and there's so much to talk about. I'll make it less cool.
    18:39
    All right. Bum us out, and then let's get excited again. Okay. This has been on for a few weeks now, but Circus Maximus is not moving forward with their project. So if you were waiting on one of those kingpins, sorry. It was a cool project, but as we know, pinball isn't easy. And pinball has been particularly hard the last, well, I'd say the last three or four years. and so I appreciate the attempt to bring that out a little bit more widely but it just didn't end up being feasible but their booths were awesome at the shows they went to and maybe down the line in the future but as of now, the project is dead.
    19:31
    Yeah, that's unfortunate. It was one of those things that would have been really cool if they could have got it going And it's always hard to see someone fail in, you know, in this realm, in our little world of things that we love because more pinball is always amazing. So having more variety and more people making them and designing them is really cool. But to be able to kind of resurrect something like that and bring it back would have been awesome for it to see the light of day. But we understand that it's it's really, really challenging to make happen. Yep, for sure. Okay, give us a good thing.
    20:09
    Okay, a good thing that I just heard about today is they're making a Ripley version of Alien. Yes, they are.
    20:17
    Okay. Alien's a very good game. It's hard, it shoots weird, but it is really good. Yes. And Ripley was the only thing, not that anything was missing, because I really liked the kind of atmospheric darkness and the colors that they used for the original art package and everything. But, oh, my gosh, it's one of those things you walk up and you're like, if Ripley was here.
    20:42
    But it's like apparently new film clips and she's involved in some of the art. The thing that I saw is that all of the artwork was like pending final licensee approval. But but I can't wait to see because it's supposedly there's going to be one at Expo. So I cannot wait to see it. Very excited. It's a very tempting thing if I was a person who had money. Yeah, it's pretty cool, too, because they're going to have their version four of the software, but that will obviously work with all the models. So this far after release, we're still getting new code.
    21:16
    Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They've had time to work out the kinks. Yeah, I'm excited to see that. What else are you excited to see?
    21:27
    Uh, well, I'm excited to see if the rumors are true that there may be Elton John announced by Jersey Jack Pinball at Expo. Great. I don't know if I'm wild about the theme for pinball, but will this be the third machine or fourth machine Elton's been on or in in some fashion?
    21:49
    Hmm. Captain Fantastic. Yeah. Technically Wizard. Technically. he's gotta be in another one right does any of his music make any appearance in the who I was wondering if he was in Tommy but I haven't played it enough to know the answer to that question he's just never had his own yeah well I mean Captain Fantastic yeah but that's his character kind of either way that's been the rumor and it seems to be nearly confirmed but not officially confirmed so we'll see but you will, no we won't see you will see because you'll be there at Expo I will see if anything shows up yep I don't remember what day they said they were revealing it but it's during Expo so we'll be recording live from the floor right Yeah, my reporting is just going to be me standing there looking at it being like, oh, it's this. So as long as someone's standing around recording it, then yes, live commentary.
    23:06
    What would the additions be, you think? You know how you've got like the Yellow Brick Road and Ruby Red and Emerald City for Wizard of Oz?
    23:16
    I hope that the topper is just a gigantic pair of really gaudy glasses. Glasses? Yeah. That would make sense. that they'll probably go with a piano, though.
    23:28
    Yeah, but glasses you can size up comically and effectively to try and do a piano-type thing, unless you were going to make it just the keys. You want it to be big. Toppers with a paintbrush. I'm not saying that's not what I wouldn't want. I'm saying what will probably happen.
    23:47
    Because if you did the giant glasses, you could put LCD screens in those lenses. And you could have them display really cool things. Or you could hide, like, lasers behind them that could shoot little beams down onto the play field. Pew, pew, pew, pew. Yes. Wow. I was 100% in. All right. All of a sudden, it's the most exciting theme in pinball.
    24:11
    Is a topper that may or may not exist and probably doesn't. And when they announce it, what's the Elton John track they play? Can you feel the love tonight?
    24:26
    From their teaser, I think they have to be going with Rocketman. Rocketman or Benny and the Jets, something like that. Yeah, because the little teaser thing I saw was like in outer space.
    24:41
    Space is pretty rad. It's like a starry background. Here's the thing. If you're going to take any performer, rather than just straight up doing the band, I kind of like, you know, Foo Fighters has heavily stylized take on it, you know, the alien stuff. But why don't they just make it Elton John in space? And then it's a space theme, but Elton John's there. Right.
    25:06
    I'm down for it. I like it. I like space themed games. But I'm also just thinking now, of course, my brain is going, that giant gaudy glasses can't be licensed specifically. So we can totally make toppers. We can, and we can charge apparently $1,500 for them, and that's a bargain. Oh, my God, it's insane. The topper economy must crash. For the good of all of Pindledom, it must crash.
    25:40
    If people want to lock their money up in toppers and keep some, you know, classic sterns more affordable for me because they've spent all their money on toppers, I don't mind. I mean, yeah. It is the cost of a used pinball machine. Yes. But whatever.
    25:57
    Everyone's into different things, Jeff. Yeah, I'm not here to yuck anybody's pinball yum until a little bit later in the show. We're not topper shaming. Uh-uh. No.
    26:09
    Okay, let's see. What else is coming up? Oh, I have something that's, like, horrible that I can't wait to see how bad it is. Uh-oh. I know this is me being negative I've got a hot take I want to hear it Homepin saying that they're making pinball that's not for pinball people and of course the obvious response being you already did that because you made Thunderbirds Thank you Oh that wasn't for your joke that was for their attempt too yeah seriously you know what of all the manufacturers out there they're the ones that's truly gonna revolutionize pinball aren't they they're the ones who are finally going to kill pinball it's not pinball it's pin all oh gosh well um yeah so that's a thing for some reason we can just end it with that on that tidbit but we did get a reveal for another game which was the Labyrinth oh my gosh I'm so excited one edition $10,600 and $100 made it has very pretty art not enough Bowie can we discuss that there's not enough Bowie? It's Bowie deficient. Bowie's on the back glass, but then if you go get the special edition mirrored back glass, no Bowie.
    27:47
    That's a hard cut. I know. From what I've seen, I haven't seen him on the play field or the side arch.
    27:57
    So I'm not sure. I don't know if it was a licensing issue. I mean, you're making a lot of money. You need more Bowie. Yeah, maybe what they'll do is in six months they'll release the Awkward Bulge edition.
    28:09
    Yes, please. It'll be literally Bowie. Velvet Codpiece Topper, I am in. I'm so in. Is that going to be at Expo? Yes, they're bringing it to Expo. It is confirmed.
    28:27
    And they just released, or at point of show recording, they just released a gameplay video with Bowen. So happy for Bowen and Phil Grimaldi and everyone who's involved with making Labyrinth. I mean, anytime like I said, there's a new pinball company that comes out, you want them to succeed. But seeing all the rad people who have been involved in the making of I'm very happy for all of them. Yeah, it's a good group.
    28:55
    I'm going to call him David Bowen from now on. Oh, I mean, it's not, I can't really fault you for it. He might not. Or Bowie Cairns. Bowie Cairns sounds better. Yeah, see, I still can't get myself to say Bowie, which is the more appropriate pronunciation, because ever since I was a kid, it was always David Bowie, like when I was a kid. Wait a minute, Bowie in space. They did that on Flight of the Conchords. See? Put it in space and it's better.
    29:30
    Everything's better in space. But this is Labyrinth, so it's not really. Okay. Yeah. I'm excited that you can play that.
    29:38
    And again, you'll be recording live from the show floor, so we'll hear those impressions. Everyone around me is going to wonder why every time I walk up to a game, I going to say coming to you live On looking out for a camera Just delusional
    29:58
    So, yeah, lots of exciting stuff coming up. Absolutely. That's all I know of as far as news. But do you know anything else?
    30:10
    I mean, not that's coming to mind right now. I think I'm a little overwhelmed by some of the things that I'm excited about because they're very exciting. They're near and dear to you. Yeah, genuinely.
    30:25
    I'm excited to see Jack and Scott and all of the pen pals in Chicago, who I didn't think I was going to see. Surprise!
    30:36
    Will be amazing to see everybody. But, yeah, it should be a ripper of a show, Jeff. yeah it seems like one of the best shows the expos had for a while yeah it's you know it's my first so we'll see i will base all of my opinions off this one instance yes as a good opinion setting person should do exactly my experience is the definitive one um okay speaking of personal experiences and getting someone's take on them. Do you know what time it is? I do.
    31:16
    Hurry up! It's time for the hurry up. It's time to possibly argue or possibly agree.
    31:32
    Or partially. I feel like I've already, like we've already talked about some of my... That's okay. I think we danced around some of mine, too.
    31:43
    Oh, uh-oh. Okay. So, nailed it, slop shot, or bricked it, just to remind the people. Those are the possible, I mean, obviously we'll have different takes, but those are the hurry-up takes. They are. So, what have you got for me, Jeff? Okay, game number one, I have a creature from the black lagoon.
    32:09
    I'm like, I've never been to the lagoon. You have. That's a nailed it for me for sure. Okay. I 100% agree. I still think it's one of the best multiballs in pinball.
    32:22
    Somatically beautiful. That's another one where it's a drive-in movie, but it's also a creature movie. Right? So you have all of these layers to it. The animations are fun and funny and get copied in other machines. like how many different things have move your car in them or move car-esque, you know, parts to them. But iconic, iconic, iconic. Absolutely not deep, and it doesn't matter, because it is all about playing it precisely and better than the person who is going up after you. It's just a beautiful pinball machine in its simplicity. I miss mine.
    33:01
    I love it. Love it. Totally. We agree. Nailed it. All right. Are you ready for something we've already talked about?
    33:13
    Absolutely. Alien. I'm going to say nailed it on this one. I'm bad at it, but I recognize it's just great. It truly is. Yeah. Agreed. No fighting yet.
    33:29
    We'll get there. Uh-oh. All right. Yeah. I'm also happy that they're running new games because that'll spur new sales and put more of them out there so more people can kind of come to understand that it's just a pretty dang cool game alright moving on to my number two this one's a little bit more modern and that would be Led Zeppelin that's kind of a slop shot for me I don't hate it but I also don't find myself wanting to play it. Does that make sense? Absolutely. It makes sense. So I lean a little bit lower, like if there's a top level of Brickdit, but I mean, Led Zeppelin is one of my top five favorite bands of all time.
    34:22
    I'm heart broken that it's a heart breaker and it turned out just to be a black dog of a pinball machine. that was some serious freestanding it's just one of those things where it deserved more like you compare it to say ACDC which is so good yes I played it again over the weekend honestly ACDC is probably still one of my top 10 sterns ever maybe creeping top 5 still but Led Zeppelin just it's just a little flat and that's a shame Well, I feel like a lot of what they were trying to do is make space to have that new mech with the spinner that pops up out of the play field, which is cool. And I like when people try new design elements. Yeah. That just leaves the pro feeling just so naked, you know? Absolutely neutered. Yeah. So I don't know. It's not. I mean, if you put me in a room with three games and that's one of them. and I'm there for an hour, I might play it once. Yeah, I'll put time into it. I just, I don't think that anything could happen with it that would ever make me love it. It's not going to ever click the way it is.
    35:40
    Yeah, that's not something where the code is going to change a lot. Right, it's just not. Yeah. All right. Oh, it's me again.
    35:52
    Oh, what do you think about Captain Fantastic? Okay, for me, it's a nailed it. I just like, it's great. I like it. It's so fun. Yeah, it's fun in any way you're playing it. Just casually, it's a phenomenal dollar game. Oh, yeah. It's one of the best dollar games. I don't know why. It just happens to be. But that, I think it's just, if you were to, like, take classic pinball and just visualize it in your head, it's going to look very close to that game. From the art to the layout to everything about it, it is just classic pinball to a T. Yeah, very much agreed. Yeah.
    36:36
    Okay, we're weirdly cooperative right now. Maybe one of our threes will create some non-sexual tension. Okay. The third one I have is Flash Gordon. oh uh nailed it okay and i know that a lot of people do not share this opinion with me but i don't care number one love flash gordon to begin with like the movie the porn parody flesh gordon all quality things associated with flesh gordon um the band that my best friend Robin and I created and did one show on like graduation night back in 19, was called Flash Gordon. So general love of Flash Gordon. And then it's the game that my friend DDT at Blair Alley Arcade in Eugene, Oregon made me drill, like rolling the ball back up the inline on the right flipper and then backhanding the inline drop targets. Oh, and it feels so good to do that. It feels so good to do that. This was also the game where if I didn't have 500,000 on ball one, he would turn the game off and make me start a new game.
    37:57
    So this is like the most purposeful learning to play, like trying to build my skills game ever. So it was torture for a while, but like I genuinely love it. Yeah, I'm going to agree. One, because it encourages people to sing that theme song at least once per night. You'll hear it if there's bat machines in the room. But it does. It does a little bit of everything. It tests your reactions like crazy because you get a lot of really fast balls off of the pop bumpers or just that the slings themselves side to side that you have to nudge. streaming down from the upper playfield. Yes.
    38:41
    It tests your accuracy. Like you said, lots of different types of accuracy skills to get it back to the upper, to hit those drops.
    38:51
    And then it also tests your nudging a lot. Like little bumps and bounces make a huge difference in that game to give you an extra shot on the upper flipper or to get it to settle into that saucer rather than roll through it. There's a lot of skill there. And like you said, a lot of people would maybe disagree and have a hate for it. It's probably because it beat them up really bad in a competition, and that game just does that to you. You can go score 3 million on it, and then you try on it, and in a competition you score 280,000, and you're wondering what just happened.
    39:23
    But it is a wonderful machine in my mind. I want one so badly, but I love it. Yeah. Love, love. Okay, well, so far, no fights. I don't know if I'm going to – I don't know that now I feel like maybe I should think of a game. No, no, no, no. Even if I agree with you, I'm going to agree with you in a way that we argue about the agreement. So don't worry about it.
    39:45
    Okay. Let's talk about Tron. Okay. Speaking of top 10 sterns, this lands in there for me and it's an elder for me.
    39:59
    I am not, I'm on the record of saying friends don't let friends compete on Borgs in tournaments and um this is one of the few exception games um it can be brutal and mean but if you're in control uh you're in control of that game um but well i guess the disc can really screw you but it can i love it i i love it i absolutely love the um kora to gem or kora to So the end of line jackpots, one of the coolest jackpots in Sterndom. It's so great. It's fantastic. This doesn't sound like we're fighting at all.
    40:43
    Let me think. Well, the one thing I don't like is that there's a mode that you can only get in a special, like what's that? The Daft Punk Coltie Ball? Yeah. It's on the LE only, yeah? On the LE only. I don't like... But my lighted ramps are way cooler than Ellie's lighted ramps.
    41:05
    The lighted ramps are also really cool. It's just such a great... I mean, it's stunning. And, I mean, talk about a theme that's, like, minimalist and not hitting you over the head with stuff. It's just simple and beautiful, and the gameplay is straightforward and really, really fun. The combo shots are so satisfying. Yeah. One of my favorite things about Tron as a whole, as a franchise, like movie, video game and everything, is that when Tron Legacy came out and what was it, 30 years later or whatever, that Flynn still speaks like it's the 30 years ago language. He says things like Teddy Man, things like that. I just love it.
    41:54
    I dig it. alright well that was a very agreeable hurry up I mean that can happen that's okay we can like stuff and dislike dislikeable things together listen to us being so positive well you know what if you want to put the brakes on the positive I got a hot take for you do we have we need hot take music Jeff's hot takes um uh Okay, I'm into it. I like it. Okay, so this is something that I've been saying a lot in person when I step away from a game, whether it's league or local tournaments or something. And for about the last four or five years, I've felt very heavily that Stern needs to slow their ball down. Like, they are destroying good designs with pinball machines that just shoot way too fast.
    42:59
    The pinball doesn't drop the targets half the time because it just ricochets clean off of them. Shots don't make it around ramps because you hit them too cleanly and they shoot too fast. I'm getting so pissed off by missing shots that I hit too cleanly. And because I'm doing it off a combo or something, the ball is going 450 miles per hour. Never mind the fact that it just destroys the games. I do not know why their coils need to kick that hard. And it's never more apparent than when you are playing some Stern games and then, like, over this weekend, going from a Stern game to Twilight Zone or Adam's Family and feeling like, boy, if I was shooting Stern speeds on this, I'd blast the ball through the back of these ramps, like, immediately. But it's frustrating. It really, really is frustrating when you make a clean shot at a ramp and it can't make the turn because it's going too fast. And I think that there's just the general quality and lightening of these machines that is apparent when, you know, they break or whatever. But I think that the speed, one, is too much for the quality of the builds. There's just not enough thickness in the plastics. There's not enough thickness in the wood or whatever it may be.
    44:13
    But I don't know how these games are getting designed with the ball flying around that quickly. Like, it's just, they're a mess. You play any Stern game for the last four or five years, and they just shoot way too fast. And it's not about the ability to control it. It's about the ability of enjoying it. And the rules do not match the speed of their ball either. And I get so frustrated with games like Rush. Make a clean shot. It bricks off the ramp and it comes back down. Or Ninja Turtles You have 1 80th of a second to make a combo shot because that how fast it returns off the ramp to the next shot And it just ridiculous They got to slow it down Like same with like Jersey Jack games, maybe shoot a little bit too slow at times, but at least you can shoot the layout of the game. And it drives me crazy. I don't know how they're going to continue to like speed up the ball. I'm not the only one that feels that way. The ball is just way too fast. It has to be.
    45:19
    I'm going to comment on two things. So I'm going to come back to the main point here, but just you mentioning Jersey Jack. The weakening of Jersey Jack flippers, the more you play them, is horrifically bad. It is bad. It came down to, did I tell you this, at Brisbane Masters, the final game of, like, it was people who were on the bubble to go between a division and B division. Yeah. The last game that their group was playing was on guns and roses and the flippers completely melted down and they had to move them to another machine, which ended up totally screwing someone over who was crushing on guns and roses. But it's like the flippers just crapped out. They just can't handle it. Like they're getting weaker and weaker and then hot enough that they start to melt things. Like it should not be this way. So I'll take strong flippers over the flippers that are just going to get progressively weaker as you play the game. However, from like a repair perspective, when you have someone who has an Avengers and the little plastic protector, airball protector over the left ramp breaks. Now they can never make the left ramp because the ball goes too fast to actually make it through the ramp if the plastic's not there. and then they don't sell the plastic protectors individually. You have to buy an entire set of plastics for the game, which is like $250. So it's like if you're going to make them that fast, then make the covers and stuff that are supposed to protect them more durable. So it's like Avengers left ramp, the little horseshoe ramp on Mandalorian, the left van shot on Foo Fighters, like shots that you hit hard that have those protectors there because they know the ball's coming in hot, but then they still just put like a little piece of plastic over it. Give us like some metal or something. Yeah, well, well, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what, you know, those tight turn ramps used to be, is they used to be metal on the curves, and then they'd have a little welded metal piece that went over the curve, essentially. Yeah.
    47:29
    I get what you're saying. I mean, I love a fast game. I love a fast game and a fast flow game. But, you know, when you go to hit something or like left ramp on Ghostbuster, You know, something like that when you're coming at speed, if it's not going to make it up because of the speed, that's a problem. It just happens so much. It drives me crazy. Or even like orbits will fly around so fast that the switch doesn't register. I'm like, come on, man, I hit that shot. Yeah. And I don't know. There's a lot of issues with modern design, and it's not Stern specific. That's just the thing that I think bothers me most right now is losing a game because you shot too cleanly. plainly.
    48:09
    You did too well, Jeff. That burns you. Yeah, I did lose a Foo Fighters game because the left ramp rejected a couple times and went straight down the middle off the ramp. I hit it too well.
    48:24
    You're just too good. No, it's not that. The designs do not support the speed at which the ball kicks out of their games.
    48:33
    That's the worst. It's also bad that they're discontinuing Spike 2 boards because what are you going to do? Oh, my gosh. I can't. All right. So there was a Game of Thrones that we had die at a location, like the board died, and it took almost two years to find a replacement board for it. And then there was another Game of Thrones also where the board crapped out and was like, huh, how long is it going to take to get a board this time? why would you make a product and give it an end to its shelf life by discontinuing making the thing that's going to keep it running? I just, I hope that more people start doing repairs on those things because there's going to be a lot of piles of dead days sitting there. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, actually, sorry, we should have moved on from that point a long time ago. I know. I played Heavy Metal last week as well. Nice. Yeah, I love that design, but I realize I love it way more as Spider-Man because its flippers flip at about three-quarters the speed, and you don't just brick all of the clean shots.
    49:48
    The stand-ups that are in front of the ramp, one of the guys in my pinball league has it. That's rad. So, yeah, it's always cool to play that game. It's so rare, but I do not love hitting the stand-ups and just watching the ball bounce right off of them. A slow roller rebound takes them down, but a clean shot, they just stand firm. Yeah. They're too fast. But, yeah, if you play the home Spider-Man pin, everything just works a little bit better because it's slowed down.
    50:19
    All right. Well, I've never played the home Spider-Man pin, but I have played heavy metal once, and it was super fun. Yeah, I did the awesome thing where I locked three balls and watched all three of them get taken behind me. Oh, no. Yeah. Well, I hit it clean. You know how you get the captive ball and you knock it out to start the multi-ball? I hit it clean. It bounced straight up and right back down into it, and it didn't start the multi-ball. And then the person behind me who ended up winning, they got a multi-ball on their first ball because I left it there. And I said, I don't know what happened, but all of a sudden the multi-ball started. Oh, shut up. No, I want to hear it. That was like my first Pinberg when I played Strange Science for the very first time. It was my first or second. And one of the players, like the game prior, someone had locked up five of the six balls or whatever. And then someone just locked one and all of a sudden they're in six ball multiball at 12x playfield multiplier. Which is just silly because there's nothing, you're not going to get that back. You're not going to get it around. For our level, you know, like C division, you're not getting that back. So very frustrating. I know.
    51:33
    Well, it didn't help that I had no clue how to play. None of us did, even the person who got the multi-ball.
    51:42
    None of us had seen it before. So super fun stuff. Nice little blessing for that player. Okay, I'm done being angry old man. I don't know if you're ever going to be done being a real man, Jeff. I will. Okay.
    52:00
    I don't have a reason why. Like, I just say I will, but I don't have any actual way to qualify that. Cool.
    52:10
    Well, okay, let's switch from the hot take to a cool take. What have you been playing game-wise that is not pinball related? Okay. So in the non-pinball realm, I just started playing Hi-Fi Rush. I don't know if you've played that one. What is that? It's like an action game, but your attacks are done to the beat of the music. Think of it as like if Edgar Wright made an action video game, and it's fun. So in the entire game, everything's, all the music and stuff has a pretty consistent beat to it. you can see elements in the background, like there might be lights that are pulsing, or there might be something else bouncing up and down, but if you time your attacks to the beat, and you're pulling your combos off to the beat, you'll do more damage and rack up more points, and it's a blast. It's really stylish. It's got cool music, like in the first 10 minutes of playing, it had the black keys and nine inch nails as tracks in the game. And it's fun. What is it called again? Hi-Fi Rush. It came out probably a year ago. I just hadn't got to it. Maybe a few months ago.
    53:31
    But it's really cool. I've been playing it on the Steam Deck. That sounds great. Yeah. And I noticed as I'm playing, I'm tapping my toe a lot. It's helping me keep beat to the attacks. So it's a lot of fun. I like it. That sounds really cool. It's cool. It's really stylish and cool. You had me at Edgar Wright. I knew that was the hook. I was going to get you.
    53:55
    It's going to happen somehow. Yeah. I've gone kind of in a very opposite game direction because I just finished. I played it over like a few days. Detective Pikachu Returns.
    54:12
    How is that? Is it just adorable? It's a cute little like mystery thing. There's a lot of cut scenes though. Like I spent so much time, so much time. The game probably would have taken me half as long if the cut scenes weren't there. Um, but it's cute. It's a cute idea. Like it's fun. It's a really different kind of like I've never, I don't like RPGs very much, so I've never been super into the Pokemon like battle kind of thing. So, So this is just kind of like a cute way to go and like interview Pokemon about crimes or whatever. So it was a nice little distraction.
    54:54
    I had a Switch voucher, like one of the Nintendo voucher things from forever ago that I forgot about that I used for it. If I didn't use that, and even though I did use that, I think it's a little on the expensive side. So like when it goes on sale, we give it a go if you like little mystery kind of kind of things. But I thought it was really cute. Just maybe at like a thirty dollar price point. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought when I saw it. It looked very fun. Like the dialogue was really fun. I had a couple of vouchers.
    55:31
    One I used and the other I put a preorder on Super Mario Wonder. and when I was on the plane to Minneapolis, I got an email that said, your pre-order has been canceled. I looked down and my voucher pre-order had been canceled for Super Mario Wonder and I, what's going on?
    55:47
    And so I looked at my purchase history and it said that I had redeemed it for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, which is a game I own. But apparently my kids got on to the shop and they just thought, oh look, it says I can download it and I have a free game. so I can't be mad about it whatever it was just funny but if you already I own the cartridge of it but my kids have it on their Switch it's fine I just was surprised I didn't get like any confirmation like sure you want to do this but it's okay it was my son's birthday yesterday and it was all part of that so that's fine I suppose. Yeah. I got him that Spider-Man PlayStation 5, so he's all excited because he'll get the new Spider-Man game day one. Nice. I didn't even know that was a thing that existed.
    56:46
    I think it kind of came and went. But, yeah, I'll give Detective Pikachu a try at some point, I'm sure.
    56:56
    One of those, like, I'm going on a trip, and I want a very, like, laid-back experience. It is super laid back. Yeah. Almost catatonic.
    57:10
    That matches my intensity level in life. I like it. Well, okay. We've gone about twice as long as we normally go on these these days. I'm not mad about it. But still under an hour, which for us is, I will say, still a feat. It's also ideal. So most, yes, very, very much ideal.
    57:34
    Is there anything else that we haven't touched on that we were supposed to talk about today? I don't think so. We probably went above and beyond. We really did. So I'm going to take a moment here at the end to get a little bit serious and a little bit nostalgic. um this will be especially potent for anyone who's in the Portland Oregon pinball community um we lost an amazing player an amazing human being um Kane was one of the first people that I started hanging out with when I was playing pinball in Portland who really kind of was that friendly face like anytime I would go somewhere he was like the least self-conscious the most open person. He just did whatever he wanted. He was so like free flowing. You never knew it was going to come out of his mouth. Incredibly smart, just incredibly unique human being. And I loved him to death and we lost him way, way too soon. Um, I took him to get his cat, Badger, named him Badger. And fortunately, another member of the Portland pinball community was able to take Badger in. So he's staying in the family. But Kane was an amazing and wonderful and weird and bizarre person. And he's very much loved and will be greatly missed. And he had a peculiar love and fascination for the one and only Taylor Swift. So Kane, this is for you. I said remember this moment