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EP 1 - Predator Pinball First Impressions

Flip n Out Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·35m 6s·analyzed·Jun 20, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Ken & Greg debut Flippin' Out Podcast with first impressions of Pinball Brothers' Predator, praising atmosphere but noting Arnold absence.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone launch the Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast with a first-impressions discussion of Pinball Brothers' Predator game. They praise the cabinet art for capturing jungle ambience without oversaturation, discuss licensing constraints limiting Arnold Schwarzenegger's prominence, analyze playfield toys and mechanics, and express cautious optimism about the game's potential despite minor aesthetic concerns like an out-of-place rebel camp truck sculpture.

Key Claims

  • Predator is a theme that hits the pinball demographic (late 30s to mid-60s) due to nostalgia appeal and childhood familiarity with the film and its stars.

    high confidence · Greg Bone discussing theme selection and audience alignment

  • Pinball Brothers had to negotiate multiple separate licenses for Arnold Schwarzenegger: artwork, video appearance, voice clips, audio sync, and marketing materials.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell explaining licensing complexity from his five years at Jersey Jack Pinball

  • The cabinet art palette is refreshingly natural and muted rather than oversaturated, evoking the jungle film aesthetic effectively.

    high confidence · Greg Bone and Ken Cromwell both praising the restrained color approach

  • Predator is a wide-body, three-flipper game with four ramps.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell describing basic game specifications

  • The rebel camp truck sculpture looks cartoonish and out of place compared to other playfield details, resembling a school clay diorama or Roger Rabbit vehicle.

    high confidence · Greg Bone and Ken Cromwell both critiquing the truck's aesthetic incongruity

  • Arnold Schwarzenegger's absence from the playfield and side art is a concern, though licensing negotiations limited available options.

    high confidence · Greg Bone expressing disappointment about lack of Arnold representation

  • The minigun toy with spinning action and strobe light effects resembles the satisfying light-show moments in Attack from Mars.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell drawing comparison to beloved classic game effect

Notable Quotes

  • “Nostalgia sells. Nostalgia still sells. And you know, what better do you get than predator? You've got Arnold, Jesse Ventura, Carl Weathers, you've just got some amazing insane personalities in this.”

    Greg Bone @ early segment — Establishes the core appeal of Predator as a pinball theme

  • “If you want to have Arnold, you're going to have to negotiate a license for him to be on the artwork. Then you're going to have to negotiate a license if you're going to show him in any of the videos... It's a multi-step process, and it's an onion that keeps peeling and peeling and peeling in.”

    Ken Cromwell @ mid-segment — Explains licensing complexity constraining character implementation

  • “When I saw this cabinet pop out, and it literally truly held the essence of the jungle, and it kind of held that essence of Predator and so forth, and it felt like the film, that back glass looks like the film, it was refreshing to me.”

    Greg Bone @ art discussion — Positive reception of thematic coherence in visual design

  • “It looks like a cartoon truck. It looks like a vehicle out of Roger Rabbit or something.”

    Greg Bone @ late segment — Specific criticism of sculptural inconsistency in playfield design

  • “If they can do that with this game, they do it with the call outs. They do it with the music. They do it with everything again... I think it could be a sleeper game.”

    Greg Bone @ late segment — Conditional optimism about game's potential if audio/narrative execution is strong

  • “I'm a sucker for light shows. And when light shows can create a moment or they can make you kind of look directly into what they're trying to convey to you, as far as messaging, I think that's important.”

    Ken Cromwell @ late segment — Explains what makes effective playfield lighting design

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonGreg BonepersonPinball BrotherscompanyPredatorgameJersey Jack PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonArnold Schwarzeneggerperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast launches as new media venture, positioning itself as 'version 3.0' of pinball podcasting after OGs and version 2.0 era

    high · Ken and Greg establish generational framing of podcast eras; Greg cites Ken as OG podcaster returning from corporate retirement; planned bi-weekly release schedule

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rebel camp truck sculpture appears aesthetically incongruent with rest of playfield; cartoonish rendering conflicts with naturalistic toy design elsewhere

    high · Greg Bone and Ken Cromwell both identify truck as visually out-of-place, comparing it to Roger Rabbit vehicle and school project; other toys (minigun, chopper, predator) maintain scale and realism

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Predator designed with muted, naturalistic color palette and jungle ambience prioritized over character prominence, contrasting with trend toward oversaturation in modern pinball

    high · Greg Bone praised restraint in art direction; Ken noted refreshing departure from expected 'blown out' oversaturated designs; deliberate choice vs. Raven-style trap

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Arnold Schwarzenegger's presence constrained by multi-layered licensing negotiations requiring separate agreements for artwork, video, voice, sync, and marketing

    high · Ken Cromwell detailed licensing breakdown from Jersey Jack Pinball experience; only distant shots of Arnold visible, no close-ups or extensive footage confirmed

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Brothers using promo video format with close-ups and highlights rather than continuous gameplay; hosts note difficulty assessing actual shooting mechanics from video editing

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.105

0:00
Hey, what's going on pinball and welcome. It's episode number one. That is zero one of the flipping out pinball podcast. My name is Ken Cromwell with me today. My co-host Greg bone. Greg, what is going on? Man, Ken, I am just happy to be back here and I am so happy to hear you back on the microphone again. Oh, thank you, man. You know what? It's been an honor and a privilege to call you my close personal friend for so long. And I've always had so much admiration for you and what you've done with Straight Down the Middle, with Flippin' Out, and as a pinball ambassador, a goodwill pinball ambassador. So for me, it's an honor to kind of get back in the driver's seat and rock a podcast out with you, man. I appreciate it. Well, dude, you know I super appreciate that. And hey, for all you listeners out there who are not familiar with Ken Cromwell. So Ken Cromwell and Ken, I know that you'll probably disagree with this, but Ken, I kind of consider you in the, Hey, there was, there was the OOGs. There were, there was people before you, there were people before us, but we all kind of started around that same time. And I still consider you one of the, the OGs of podcasting and stuff. You know, Ken, Ken had a very, very popular show years ago before he went off into the corporate pinball world and left us media scum behind. And he was part of a special WinLit podcast, which was an absolutely amazing podcast. And then Ken also did, for Flippin' Out, the Flippin' Out pinball stream. You guys did, what was it, the Monday Night Pinball? It was kind of like a Monday Night Football type thing, but it was Monday Night Pinball. That was so fun, man. That was like the place to be. We had industry guests coming in and being interviewed and playing live. and you know we at that time we had our little after hours going we had call-ins that was a really fun time uh in pinball streaming for me personally but you know everything's evolved you were talking about the uh next wave of of people after the ogs that you know that was like version 2.0 and i think right now we're in that version 3.0 of pinball content creation which is uh interesting it is fun to play a part of and and come back out of retirement well it is amazing to have you back sir yeah man i i really appreciate it and i wanted to thank officially again, everybody, Zach and Nicole many, and you of course for welcoming me with open arms at Flippin' Out coming from Jersey Jack Pinball where I spent the last five years of my little pinball career. I am spreading the wings and taking it another direction and I can't wait, man, so it's going to be a good time. But we're here for a reason. This podcast, we're looking to put out every couple weeks just offering our individual perspectives, things that are happening in the industry, things that are topical. We might even sway a little bit on some side missions, but today's topic was impromptu because, you know, full disclosure here, we weren't really planning on having this podcast out so soon. But what happened, Greg? We got an announcement for Predator. Yes, we did. Pinball Brothers Predator. Long awaited Predator.
Alien Ripley edition
game
Attack from Marsgame
Evil Deadgame
Demomangame
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany

medium · Hosts acknowledge 'a lot of close-ups and it's a lot of highlights' making it hard to judge actual playfield geometry and shot satisfaction; speculative about gameplay quality

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Ken Cromwell transitions from Jersey Jack Pinball corporate role to Flippin' Out Pinball media partnership after 5-year stint

    high · Ken explicitly states departure from Jersey Jack after 5 years and joining Flippin' Out Pinball with Zach Minney and Greg Bone; podcast is episode 1 of new venture

  • ?

    announcement: Predator pinball by Pinball Brothers officially announced with cabinet art, playfield details, and specification reveal

    high · Full cabinet artwork, playfield images, and promo video released; game specifications confirmed (wide-body, 3-flipper, 4 ramps)

  • ?

    technology_signal: Predator features interactive physical toys (spinning helicopter with ball lock, attacking predator pop-up, spinning minigun with strobe effects) representing modern trend toward tangible playfield moments

    high · Multiple interactive toys described as creating 'small moments' to enhance immersion; comparison to games like Evil Dead and Demoman for quality execution

    • 3:03
    Yes, yes. So let me ask you, and again, because this is a first impression podcast and look, we're not going to do a deep dive here. We're going to try to zip this up in 15 minutes or less, give you something snackable and something that kind of, you know, what your whistle, so to speak, but predator as a theme, what are your feelings on it? I think it couldn't get any better. Um, you know, it's one of those things that I know that, that you've got a couple of people, um, in this hobby that we'll talk about, you know, that, oh, you know, you got these old man themes and you got all this stuff, but you know, the reality of the entire situation is, is nostalgia sells. Nostalgia still sells. And you know, what better do you get than predator? You know, you've got Arnold, Jesse Ventura, Carl Weathers, you've just got some amazing insane personalities in this it was just something that we grew up with it was just kind of something, it was a film that was ingrained in our childhood, some of these actors were ingrained in our childhood and stuff I think it's a thoughtless theme you've got to have it I think it definitely hits the pinball demographic which arguably can anywhere between maybe late 30s to mid to late 60s. And this is one of those movies that, you know, you grew up at some point watching Predator and repeating the lines and having fun with the movie. So it definitely checks that box. When you're out and you're looking for a game to play, you're usually looking for something that you're familiar with or something that made you happy in the past. And Predator definitely, in my opinion, is a great selection. Couldn't agree more. So our first impression of the game, outside of just knowing what the title was going to be, was really getting a first look of that cabinet artwork. That was kind of the first one of the first things that was given to us to kind of take a look at. And, you know, I've got my thoughts on that. But I wanted to hear where you're coming from as far as what was your first impression of that overall exterior art package? So, you know, I think I don't know if I'm in the minority or not on this. You know, it's something that but I mean, I'm so passionate about this, though. Like, I'm just so I love some of the vibrance and I love the artwork on a lot of what these modern pinball machines are. But at the same time, it gets a little redundant with some of the vibrancy and some of the stuff. So when I saw this cabinet pop out, and it literally truly held the essence of the jungle, and it kind of held that essence of Predator and so forth, and it felt like the film, that back glass looks like the film, it was refreshing to me. And again, I know not everybody's going to agree with that, but to me, I was just happy to see something that was, you know, had, I don't even know how that you would explain the coloring of that when you don't blow something out like that. But, you know, it's like that natural feel. Yeah, I think natural is about as great as you can call it. Yeah, exactly. So what was your take on it? Are you different? Are you one of those colorful people? Yeah, you know what? It's hard. Well, yeah, I think I am. I usually can appreciate something that's a little more vivid, but I noticed that kind of my opinion on that ebbs and flows based on where I'm at in my collectability factor. And I think, you know, you were talking about how you appreciated that it wasn't completely blown out, oversaturated. I think at some point I just became very conditioned to just expect that with a pinball art package. And when I saw Predator, where it does have some, it's got some popping colors, it's not just over the top. And I think the thing that immediately I realized was, am I a little bit let down because this is more of like a lot of greens and jungle theme and that sort of thing? And I didn't want to get Raven vibes, which is, you know, a pinball machine that's older. No disrespect to anybody that was on that project. But it's just for me and I feel comfortable talking about this respectfully. I mean, artwork is very subjective. And with me being the subject of a pinball machine, I'm going to let you know if the art calls. Exactly. You have to. But, you know, a pleasant. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, pleasantly after kind of taking it all in, like a lot of those concerns were set at ease. And I became very appreciative of the art package, especially when you consider how it kind of spills into the play field. Yeah, I agree. Is that this one thing? But but it's like you said, like it could have been that very Raven Ash, you know, feel to it. You know, I mean, very, very much could have been too much green. It very much could have been just too much of the the palm leaves and too much of the jungle. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, like you said, like when you roll over. I didn't want it to look like a Microsoft screensaver or something, you know. Yeah, yeah. You'd be like, hey, we've got a bunch of puzzles. I'm not saying that I wasn't scared leading up to the reveal of it. I very much was. I very much share your sentiment on that. But, again, you know, they've got that map in there on that play field and stuff. You know, you've got the skulls obviously breaking stuff up, the bloody skulls and stuff. So, yeah, I'm not mad at it, man. And it actually is just a very cohesive, very actually kind of a nice art package. You know, I mean, it's one of those things, Ken, it's like what you said about Raven. You get terrified about that because there's only so much you can do when something is set in the jungle and it's all green and brown. Like, what do you do to break that up? 100%. You know, one of the things you'll notice right away is that the cabinet, the side art left, right, and then the transite. obviously you've got the predator font logo that's that's plastered across the side there with some nice background images you don't have any characters so we don't see anything with the exception of the predator that's in the back box above the LCD and underneath the predator logo what are your thoughts about not using characters on the side because I from what I been following there are though there are those that just prefer to have the kind of the name of the game on the side Then there are those that want to have assets that are going to tie them into that cabinet or package Did that have any concern that you didn't see Arnold Schwarzenegger, for instance? Oh, my God. Yeah, man. I mean, that was a huge concern. So, you know, it's like immediate first impressions on seeing that cabinet. You know, you sit there and you go, okay, I actually like this. It looks really good. The Predator looks phenomenal on there.
    9:09
    But where's Arnold? I mean, Arnold is that centerpiece. I mean, Arnold is that thing. And then you get to the play field and you look around and there's none of the characters.
    9:22
    There is no Arnold again. So, you know, you really question, where is he? Like, what is this? You know, because this sounds very, it's almost hypocritical in a sense. I don't know why it's different. I think I know why it's different. But when you take something like Alien and they didn't have Sigourney Weaver, I honestly was not upset about that because that game encompassed the world so much and you felt like you were a part of Alien so well that you just didn't miss her that bad being on there. But with this, man, because I think Alien was a little bit more of, man, I don't know. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's so hard because Sigourney Weaver is obviously phenomenal, phenomenal in Alien. I mean, she's the star power of that movie franchise. That being said, I think a lot of that movie franchise is kind of setting a tone and creating a feeling of fear and tension. Yes. And I think that's where that game, Alien, really shined. It really shined a lot because it was able to kind of replicate those feelings and create that ambience on the play field in that game. But with this and not having Arnold, it becomes a concern because Arnold was that movie. I mean Arnold being larger than life and a lot of these guys, Jesse Ventura and a lot of these guys being so much – Their personalities are so large and the call-outs and just the different things. I won't say it was like a cliche over-the-top action movie, but it kind of was more than Alien. So you kind of relied on Arnold, the muscles, the stature, his personality to really carry that film. And I think that maybe that's the separation of why it can be kind of hard to not have Arnold in there sort of thing. but you know after seeing the trailer and everything i'm not i'm not as upset because the game looks good essentially pinball brothers is saying that hey yeah you've got arnold in these clips but you know full transparency there aren't any extreme close-ups with arnold schwarzenegger so you're gonna you're gonna see him yeah i don't know how else he's implemented within the game as far as any call outs or clips or things like that that still is uh kind of yet to be revealed and And look, it's like what you talked about when we were talking before we first saw this. You're like, is it just going to be his ankles? Yeah. Well, you see Arnold running. I don't know what the what the fee is for Arnold's ankles or his legs. But, you know, coming from industry side of things and just having a unique perspective of seeing how licensing works itself out over the last five years, there's several different factors that go into a license when it comes to even one individual. So, for instance, and I would assume this is how it's working over at every pinball company. If you want to have Arnold, you're going to have to negotiate a license for him to be on the artwork. Then you're going to have to negotiate a license if you're going to show him in any of the videos. Then you're going to have to negotiate a license if you're going to use any of his voice from the movies. Then you might have to have another license that has his audio synced with those movie clips. So it's not like, hey, we got Arnold, and then you're just able to put him in. And then the other thing is this, right? Then you have, let's say you have all those assets. Well, guess what? If you're going to do any marketing with that promo video, you're going to probably have to have another license that includes him in there. So it's a multi-step process, and it's an onion that keeps peeling and peeling and peeling in. And there's a lot of star power in this movie with Jesse Ventura. You've got Carl Weathers. So I'll be curious to see what they were able to get to kind of make the game as complete as possible. but I completely agree that when we were talking about the ambience of the game and we were referencing Alien, by visuals, it looks like they did a really good job of theme integration to make you feel like you're in a jungle and you're taking part of the Predator movie. Oh, yeah, you're not wrong. And you're touching on Alien. I mean, you bring up a good point there with that again. You know, if it's anything like Alien, because I still look at Alien as being one of the most, one of the games that just draws you in the most. I mean, it is all-encompassing. Like you feel like that you're a part of that world. And it almost, you know, it's almost unsettling sometimes if you're playing that game in the dark just because of what it projects and makes you feel like you're part of that world. I love that. And if they can do that with this game, they do it with the call outs. They do it with the music. They do it with everything again.
    13:48
    You know, I think it could be a sleeper game. Like even though that you're missing Arnold for almost, you know, 90% of it and you're just getting some far away shots of him. it's something that could come back and be like okay this is a this is a pretty damn cool game man like sure it's it's it's missing him but it's still it's still predator it still feels like you're in that jungle you know i i don't i mean all the time will tell you know yeah i guess i was just going to say that the uh it's too close for us to call as far as if that's going to have an impact or how it's going to be impacted because honestly we nobody's has seen the whole package and how it's put together. And, you know, not to set any false expectations, but Sigourney Weaver eventually was tied into the Alien license. So I'm not saying that there's going to be more prominent or anything added down the road, but there's always that possibility.
    14:38
    And when we're talking about the play field, I wanted to take a different approach, if you're all right with it, Greg, is I don't want to necessarily go over every single shot or the play field left to right. From somebody that's stepping up to the machine, I wanted to kind of go over some of the things that called our attention right away and talk about those. And look, this is not a visual podcast, and pinball is a very visual thing. So I would encourage you at this point, if you get a chance, go over to flippingoutpinball.com, and you can click on Predator, and you can see a lot of the images of the mechs and the toys that we're talking about. So you can go to flippingoutpinball.com, click on Predator, and you'll have a better idea and understanding from a visual standpoint. But when you were there, Greg, and you got your first look at the play field, and you're looking at these images and you're kind of taking in that promo video what were some of the things that you thought were cool or some of the things that you think that most people that are interested in maybe buying the game would appreciate i mean obviously obviously kind of the interactive toys i mean we don't see that a whole lot and a lot of pinball anymore you know a lot of times you've got one really big cool mech that goes on um you know i mean there are some exceptions to that where you've got some you know really good interactive toys but you know just seeing that mini gun down there that spins whatever activates it that looks cool you notice the fact that the helicopter you know holds the ball the blades start spinning you know i i think some of those things could really add up to you know a bunch of little mini moments you know like we discuss this in pinball all the time that that's what we feel especially now that things have kind of uh switched over to more of a home environment instead of a location environment even though i do think it's it's completely important in on a location environment as well but you notice creating those small moments that that make you feel more that you're part of the movie is so important and you know just from this early on stuff and seeing some of the toys and stuff that they did i feel like that they're they've went that direction yeah and and i would agree uh you know this is actually a wide body game and that could be a polarizing topic for some people some that prefer wide bodies some that don't and some that are impartial. Personally, I've always enjoyed a good wide body. The issue being you need to be able to utilize that space properly so that you're not putting up a flub. It's got to shoot well. And with this being a three flipper game, you've got four ramps. What are your thoughts on wide body in general? I'm mixed. I mean, I'm kind of like, I don't know. I think that when you create a wide body, because something like Demoman, I think, shoots phenomenally. uh you know evil dead shoots very well but you know there are some games out there that that don't shoot so well um that are wide bodies and i think that when you're designing a wide body you leave yourself more open to failure uh than what you do designing a standard body just because those games can tend to be so floaty uh the shots can tend to be you know they tend to be a little less satisfactory sometimes so i think that you just open yourself up a little bit more um to having a game that shoot so well But just because it a wide body doesn equate to that necessarily if that makes sense to you Well, on the flip side, you've got a wide body game, and it could be because it's just packed to the gills. Oh, yeah. You know, something that looks packed to the gills from the top. Yeah, you have a little bit more room to design. And, you know, it's really nice off of this. You know, I know we're not getting into each individual shot and everything. but you know it looks like there's three or four shots off of that third flipper um they all look satisfying you know which is nice because a lot of times when people throw a third or fourth flipper into a game you just got something that just you know you're hitting one shot repetitively maybe two or something so it really looks like that they they utilize that wide body because i i like a third flipper shot on a wide body a little bit more than what i do a standard body you got a little bit more breathing room up there for that third flipper shot so you know it's kind of nice that they utilize that a little bit more with this wide body. So we were talking about some of the mechs. You do have that interactive choppa, and that is a physical ball lock, and it looks like the propeller begins to spin when it needs to. So I think that's cool. People like to see movement, and whenever you can stop the ball to present something and create a moment, I think that's always interesting for sure. Agreed. You do have the interactive attacking predator, and it's kind of right in the middle of the play field, And it looks like it can pop up and go back down. It looks like it's interactive, not in the sense that it is a bash toy, but that it's reactive after the ball hits a target. Well, that was something that kind of stood out to me, Ken. I'm kind of mixed on it. I kind of want to know your thoughts on this too.
    19:10
    I'm looking at that Predator and you look at everything else, and there is not that one visual other than – I'll get into this in a minute, something off to the left there that kind of throws me off a little bit. But you almost expect that Predator to be maybe a little larger, be a little more interactive. But at the same time, he's kind of to scale with everything. There's so many times that you get off and things aren't to scale.
    19:37
    What's your thoughts on that? Do you like the proportionalism of him in the size he is? Did you think we needed a bigger Predator helmet, a face that snarled? did you think we needed any of that or did they go the right direction with this i i think it's i think it's i think it's fine my first impression is that it's fine and then maybe it presents differently when i stand over the game in person i i've never been a really big fan of an extremely large head on a play field whether it's uh red ted or rudy or or anything like that it's just it looks out of proportion to me uh so to have him kind of running around or being interactive in his natural habitat of the jungle i do think that it makes sense yeah I personally agree. I don't know. I agree, too. Like, that's mine. Because I almost wonder if that will throw some people off and if that will do something. But to me, I completely agree with you. That's where my mind is as well.
    20:29
    I mean, if you want to see a big predator head, just look up on the back box. It's sitting right there. I agree. I will tell you something. It's fine with me. That did, you know, to kind of not be a Debbie Downer on it at all. But, you know, the whole sculpt thing, and I can't tell what it covers, but almost the jungle hut with the car over there.
    20:53
    That is the truck in Rebel Camp with Exploding Light Show is how it's detailed on the fly. Yeah, and I'm sure it'll look cool, the Exploding Light Show. But it just looks so out of place because Predator looks normal. You know, you've got the minigun that looks normal. The chopper looks normal. You know, I'm not saying that they're hyper-detailed. I'm not saying that they're just the best sculpts or toys in the entire world. But when you get to that weird little set, it looks like somebody created a clay diorama for their school project almost. I hate to say that. Is that what it looks like? It's just out of place. Okay. Look at the truck. It looks like a cartoon truck. It looks like a vehicle out of Roger Rabbit or something. Sure.
    21:37
    Yeah, I do kind of see. you know i didn't catch it at first and you know kind of giving it a second glance over it does look like it's out of place it almost looks like it's more symbolic of what it should be versus what it actually is and i don't know if that's intentional or not but and i don't even know that's the right way to describe it but yeah it does look a little bit off with the rest of the uh detail uh that was kind of a paid to the rest of the uh skull yes it's just kind of not a deal breaker it's fine i'm sure when it lights up it looks cool and you know the great thing is is things like that um you know i don't know how interactive it is or how it encompasses in the game but maybe it's something that you can swap out somebody creates a little bit more realistic mod but oh wow yeah well the mod community is is fierce and uh fearless yeah yeah you can't have all the good without some of the bad and and that that's just some of the bad that's just one thing that's because honestly like i don't have a lot of critique you know from first impressions of this game other other than you know i wish that it had arnold yeah um you know there's there's not much that i'm sitting here and i look at on on that game and say oh wow this uh this was underwhelming or you know something else it actually you know it exceeded my expectations but that that one thing was something that catches my eye repetitively and i'm like why are you putting it in there we we didn't really need that no it's completely uh completely fair i i can see where you're coming from for sure uh the one thing that kind of caught My eye is kind of coming from the lower left-hand side of the play field. And this is, look, I'm a sucker for light shows. And when light shows can create a moment or they can make you kind of look directly into what they're trying to convey to you, as far as messaging, I think that's important. And it's the old painless minigun, which spins and shoots with muzzle flashes. And I think it creates a cool effect. And it's kind of the strobe effect that comes from that area of the play field. I'm not sure if those lights are actually from within the minigun or if they're coming from an area underneath the minigun, but it shoots away from the player and it lights up the left side of the playfield. And it reminded me of a pinball moment in one of my favorite games, Attack from Mars, when you hit that strobe-like multiball. The whole playfield goes dark and it just starts strobing, and it's just a cool effect. The whole playfield's not going dark, at least in the promo video, but in that area, it really draws your attention, and you've got movement on the minigun, and I think it's cool. Oh, it is cool, dude. We need more of that in pinball. and that's what I'm saying like I'm not disappointed about anything that I've seen you know and they even did something as small now I don't know exactly what it is but you know just like even doing the like the netting over that right wire form I don't know if that's the net that like you know I remember in the movie they tried to capture a predator in a net so I don't know if it's that net or if it's like the fish net that he wears over his body which has always been weird to me. You know what's funny that you brought up the net because for whatever reason, this is going to sound ridiculous, and I was reluctant to bring it up because I didn't want anybody to question my credibility on critiquing games, but for whatever reason, I thought the net was kind of a cool thing. Oh, I think it's cool. I think it's a nice little touch. It's kind of like an organic thing in the lower right. It's simple, but it's effective, and I noticed it. Yeah, like I said, they didn't have to add it. It's just, like you said, it's a nice touch. I like it. I don't care if it's his fishnet body wear or if it's the net they tried to catch him in. Either way, visually, I mean, it's something added to it that fits. I mean, I'm not mad at it. And it's not an $89 add-on that you have to buy after the fact. I completely agree. You get the free net. I agree, dude. And, you know, just coming kind of full circle, like what do you think? And, again, you know, you'd express this and you said that it's definitely not the route that we're going to go with this show of just laying out every shot. But just a real quick thing from your perspective, what do you think about the shot? It's just a real quick generalization of seeing the layout and seeing everything. What do you feel about it? Where are you at? Yeah, so, I mean, full transparency from a top-down view, you can kind of visualize shots, and the layout looks like it would be satisfying, for the lack of a better term. Again, watching the promo video and how it was cut up, it's a lot of close-ups and it's a lot of highlights, so it's real hard to say exactly how it shoots. And I think at the end of the day, and not to kind of bypass your question, it would be really hard for me to even begin to speculate if I thought that this was going to be a great shooting pinball machine or not. But it doesn't look like it's sloppy. It looks like the geometry would make sense. Like you said earlier, it looks like you've got some nice shots from the upper right flipper. And there's nothing less satisfying than having like a repeatable loop shot from an upper right flipper that's just clunky and isn't consistent. It'll drive you up the wall because you want to have something like that consistent. So I will refrain from getting deep into how it shoots but there nothing that was glaring to me that looked like it would impede your ability to shoot well I don know how you feel No I couldn have said it better I feel the same way. There's nothing, you know, just visually looking at it without seeing gameplay that throws me off and makes me think that this is not going to be a fun game. and and you know again you know back to the the whole world under glass type thing and the way the alien encompassed you know i obviously want this to shoot a little better than alien and everything but if they have you know a good rule set on top of this and it just shoots so let's just say hey it shoots good it shoots good you know it's not keith elwyn you're not blown away by but this shoots good and they do some good code that really makes you feel like you know that whole world that you're living in that predator environment of that jungle and they can encompass these modes and give you moments like what we talked about you know if they really throw that mini gun in there and they the helicopter and just some of these moments and they can create those in this code i i think this could be a game that takes us all by surprise you know sure just from that now again there's a lot there's a lot you gotta have good shots hey they don't have to be great but the code call outs everything else you know it's pinball it takes all those things to make a great game um some of them can you know vary in degree but you know it's still a whole package so i i you know i guess we'll see in the the coming weeks on what this game really gives us and that's exciting we've got enough here though to kind of to kind of get that first impression and that's going to be, you know, it is what it is at that point. Before we go into pricing and how you can order your game, though, there's one other thing that we left off, and it comes from the bottom part below the play field from the player perspective, and that's the apron, right? So what is going on? Thank you for bringing that because I almost forgot about it. It's honestly one of the coolest things.
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    I don't even know what it's called. What do they call it on the flyer? It's the fully lit and interactive Yauta apron display. Yeah, so it's basically his digital display. It's how he communicates. It's like, to me, I always looked at it as like a smartwatch, you know, that he had. The first one in its day, right? And that's what, you know, we were discussing before. Is that an alphanumeric display on there? Or how did they create that? Because in the trailer, it looks like it's moving. It looks like it's, you know, interactive in some way to the code or the game. so it's just another one of those like you know attention to detail sort of things that they didn't have to do that's just super cool that they put in there and what better spot than an apron that's just normally there's there's nothing going on yeah it's fun i think that what i liked about it too is that it's not uh it's it's a cool area to kind of have something catch your attention or catch your eye but it's not doesn't look like it's too distracting where it would pull you away from concentrating on the ball because you're looking in that flipper area so often and for better or worse, that apron area is usually not very utilized. It's a little underutilized, and I just think they did something that was tasteful and was on point with the theme. Well, and I think it's an overlooked thing. It's easy to look at the minigun. It's easy to look at the helicopter. It's easy to look at Predator going up and down. But I think I would assume that this is going to pop up or do things during certain modes. So to me, it's just another one of those moment-type things to where whatever, hopefully it corresponds on the screen or does something else and it's going off. So now you're looking down at that apron, you're looking at the screen, you know what I'm saying? It creates a moment that makes you feel like you're part of that world again. So let's get into pricing real quick. We'll let people know how they can order the game. We'll wrap this up because I have a feeling that we'll be getting more information here in the coming days, and we can jump back on and maybe opinion changes or we can provide an update. But typically what you're looking at to order the game, you're at $10,995, which includes everything that we were talking about as far as the features. Now, there is a trophy package, which is an upgrade package, and that's kind of what we're looking at from the flyer perspective. And that Predator trophy package is going to offer you the Starry Green Jungle Warfare trim. So if you're into armor and you like that lollipop style with a nice cutout around the button area, that is included in the trophy package, along with the shaker motor, Invisiglass, back box mission lighting, which I'm not sure what that is yet, limited game exclusive Predator poster, Predator merch package, and then you've got a jungle service kit. So that all kind of, it's kind of the upper tier add-on package. Now, there are a few other variables that are going to come into the pricing, and not necessarily with the price of the machine itself, but when you order the game, there are a few other things that you're going to want to consider. Mostly that's going to be involving shipping, and in this instance, tariffs. And I don't know, Greg, if you wanted to kind of cover how that works. But, you know, we just want to offer all the information with full transparency. Yeah, so basically, you know, with this game coming from overseas, there's going to be a $500 air freight charge. And then we're looking at a $600 tariff slash duty import fee on these as well. And then once they hit our docks, then there will be the normal shipping charge that will come from flipping out to you. Those obviously vary depending on where you are in the continental United States. You know, always feel free to email or message me or Ken on those. Both me and Ken can both, we can be reached at Ken at flip the letter N out pinball.com or Greg G-R-E-G at flip the letter N out pinball.com. And we can kind of, we'll get you guys, you know, a shipping quote from us to you in there. also any sales stuff in there you know if you guys are interested in one of these games you know shoot either Ken or I you know message any questions or anything about the game any other games we're more than happy to help you out you know this is fairly early on we don't know a lot about production schedule we don't know a lot about allotment you know how they're going to distribute games to to distributors what that allocation is going to be you know build time We're not sure if these are on the line or anything yet. Everything is so early on with the game just dropping, but we'll try to answer those questions. We'll try to get you answers to those questions when we can, that sort of thing. So just, again, don't hesitate to email either one of us with anything that you need. Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better. So just a quick recap. You're at 10995 for the base model Predator. You've got a $500 fee to kind of bring it over here via the air freight. Then you've got the $600 tariff. Now, the $600 tariff fees is something that I wanted to bring up because when we were talking to Zach earlier, there was some concern about if the tariff fee fluctuates and let's say the tariff percentage fluctuates and it goes up. Zach has capped that tariff fee at $600. So it sounds like in the unfortunate circumstance, if there was going to be an increase in the tariff, Flippin' Up Pinball would have your back on that. And then once it gets here domestically, just like you said, whatever normal shipping rates are, whether you're picking up or we're shipping to your home, we get you a quote on that. But, yeah, I don't know. Listen, I wasn't sure what to expect when the game came out. I'm always happy to see new pinball. I think new pinball is great for competition. It's great for the enthusiast. And, you know, up to now, this game hasn't disappointed me. It's probably surpassed what my expectations were, not that my expectations were low. Yeah, I agree, man. And, you know, you go into something like this just because, you know, they basically had Alien sort of designed for them when they took the company over and so forth. And you had ABBA and Queen. And ABBA and Queen, you know, they just weren't necessarily my themes. But, you know, the games didn't shoot terrible or anything. So when I heard about a theme like Predator that I was actually interested in, I was like, okay, let's see what they can do with what I consider a pretty big title. So let's see what they can do. And I'm just like you, like it surpassed my expectations actually. So I'm not mad, man. I'm excited to get my hands on one. Can't wait to see some gameplay video of it and see what all goes on. Yeah, I'm the same. Let's see what happens here. Again, it's early on, but we're excited to bring you this information and try to help you share in the launch. And we're just excited to get a new game to you as you are to get a new game. Do you have anything you want to add there, Greg? Yeah. Get to flipping out pinball and put your order in.
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    whatever you're doing now for greg bone i'm ken cromwell don't forget to take some dime out of your day and play some pinball so long everybody