It's natural. It happens. It's fine. And that I do respect completely. But I'm sort of – I'm impatient. If I record a show, I want it out there. I want it to be like – I remember going home, going to my hotel from the first night of the first Midwest gaming classic I went to, and I was so amped up because it had been such a fun day, and I'd met all these cool people, and I'd played new games. It was 2 a.m. I was tired. I was sweaty. I was exhausted, and I went back into my hotel and just recorded an hour-long show and had it posted by 4 in the morning. And people were seeing me on the floor of the show the next day at 9 a.m. And they're like, dude, your podcast just updated on my phone. I'm like, yeah, I know. That's just, I wanted it to be that way. But again, back when you were doing it, there were so few podcasts. And like you say, the wait for pinball podcast to come out or top cast or whatever the ones of the day were, it was a little frustrating. At least now, I mean, you don't have to worry about it. Sometimes there are two, three, four podcasts that will come out on a day. But I think if I were to do news stories, I would have to speed up the editing and get it out earlier because it would be dated. Where we do an interview, if I release this today, if I release this a month from now, nothing's really changed. We're talking about history. And as long as nothing really big has changed in the world, I think it's timeless. That's why that was kind of the goal of doing this. Kind of these, Walter Day called it oral histories. Just doing some sort of, if you want to know a little bit about Nate in this case, here's an example other than obviously Coast to Coast and Stern Insider and Wide World of Pinball. Boy, you know, I talk about me doing podcasts. You did another one there. I know there were only five, but that was fun with Steven and Josh doing that. So that one could come back at any time. Oh, really? So I've had moments, Jeff, seriously, in the last month or two where I've had Steve Bowden's Facebook profile up and I've gone to say, hey, Steve, you want to record a wide world of pinball tonight? I've thought about it. Do it. I haven't done it because, well, that show was born out of people who I really respected telling me that my show was getting too into competitive pinball because I was getting into competitive pinball. I was starting to really get excited about it. So I wanted Coast to Coast Pinball not to be just that. And also, I'm not as knowledgeable and I don't speak as well about rules and strategy as Josh or Steve. So I was like, hey, guys, why don't we do a show just on competitive pinball? And I still think it was probably should have done it longer and done more of them. But I could see that coming back when competitive pinball was back because there's still, I think, there's an audience for that, limited as it may be. But I think that's still interesting. And Steve Bowden is one of the best personalities in the whole pinball hobby industry, whatever you want to call it. And I'm so glad he actually landed a gig in pinball because the pinball world needs Steve Bowden, whether or not they know it. And Josh, obviously, what can I say about Josh that you haven't said five times about Josh, right, Jeff? Know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I thought it was perfect, and we should have kept going. And I wanted it to be Wide World of Sports, but just Wide World of Pinball and really dive into it. And I don't even remember why that trailed off, to be quite honest. I don't know if that was the same time I trailed off the first time with the show or what, but we didn't keep it going. I always liked my show to not have a co-host, and it was really because I didn't want to be beholden to anybody else's schedule. I wanted to see something and go, I'm recording a show about that. And that proved itself a little bit with that because you know this, getting one person sometimes is tough enough. You and I have been talking for a week trying to like, okay, what day can we do it? Getting two people to then join you, it's even more difficult. Yeah, with the time zones as well. I do the final round with Martin Robbins. We're in Australia, yeah. Yeah, so we're now, because of Daylight Saving Time, we're 16 hours apart. So a lot of times I'll record late at night while it's midday for him, and it works out. And the funny thing about the wide world of pinball is flying around, the idea was we're going to talk competitive pinball. Well, we started the show in February. Competitive pinball died in March. And now we'll get to it once it comes back. But now it's just about two guys just taking jabs at each other and having fun with the backdrop of pinball. So there's always something to talk about in pinball, whether it is competitive, whether it's the manufacturers. You do well with the Stern Insider. You were once offered a job at Stern. How close was that to happen? Oh, I mean, it was closer than I think. So that's such a tough subject for me because I really like the people at Stern Pinball. Like, I just genuinely like them. I think that working there would be fantastic. I think I could bring a lot of ideas and energy to them. Not that they don't have all that, but I think, I don't know, I just think it would be a great fit. And when they met me, I was actually there filming one of the Pinball with the Pros videos that I did with them. And I met Gary's partner in the business, Dave. And Dave said, hey, I want you to meet John Buscaglia. He kind of runs our sales and everything. And we just started talking. And as I'm talking to these guys, they're telling me, yeah, we're really looking to bring somebody in to work this side of sales and do this and do that. And I'm like, yeah, you guys should do this and do that. And like, we're just kind of going back and forth. And John's like, so are you interested? And I was like, oh, you're talking about me. And it was really that dumb like TV moment where I'm like, oh, no, not me. And I literally said to him, I said, no, I'm not moving to Chicago. And he goes, really, you wouldn't move to Chicago? I'm like, no, I don't think so. And then I walked away and Josh was actually there at the filming of that video with Lyman. And I said, I think they're talking about me interviewing for a job here. And he's like, oh, my gosh, do it. And then I started getting excited because I'm like, I could work in pinball. Like, yeah, this would be awesome. So I left and then I flew back. And I was very happy at Taylor. I was working the same place as the same company I am now. I was very happy at Taylor. But I had been a territory-based sales rep since I was 23 years old, nine years with PV and then about five years with Taylor. And I was ready to do something else. I was ready to manage people and, like, lead a team and really drive growth on a little bit larger level. And so the more I talked to Stern, the more I realized it was kind of exactly what I was looking for, and it was pinball. And, hey, Chicago's a cool city. I've got nothing really against Chicago. I've lived all over. I can be happy anywhere if I'm happy doing what I'm doing. So I flew in. I interviewed. We went back and forth for quite a while just about what it would look like and what the timeline would be. They made me an offer. I accepted it, and I flew to Chicago. I rented a house. I put a very expensive deposit covering a couple months' rent on a house, and I was leaving. And they pushed the date out a little bit because of some things they needed to do in-house and just sort of like getting it set, getting it ready. So I had given Taylor two months' notice, I think. I said, look, I'll give you guys two full months. We've got events planned that I'm in charge of. I will stay on as long as you – if you want me to. And they're like, yeah, please. And I was very close to everybody at the company. And I just randomly was – my credit card got stolen. My work card got stolen, so I had to walk across the street at Taylor into a building I never go into in the finance building, and I had to get my new replacement card, and the VP of HR was there. And she says, sit down. And I'm like, uh-oh. And so I sat down. She goes, why are you leaving us? And I said, look. And her name is Sean, and she's amazing. And I said, Sean, this opportunity is really great. I have a passion for pinball. These people are hardworking. They're driven. They want to make Stern better, and they want somebody who has the same exact experience kind of resume that I have. And, you know, I'm going to be working on a global level, working internationally with Gary. I'm just this whole thing. And she's like, so it's not money? And I said, no, it's not money. And she's like, can I ask you something? I'm like, sure, what's that? She goes, if I had an opportunity for you here, would you listen to it? And I'm like, well, I'll listen to anything. And I was like, but I've already rented a house. And so in my head, I was thinking they were going to like offer me a bigger tariff. I don't know. I didn't know at the time. But when she said, we want to make a change in Amsterdam and offer you the director of sales for Europe, like my whole world started like flashing around me because that's kind of like, I don't know, that's a dream for a lot of Americans. I think like, hey, you can move to Europe and have a job that you're going to absolutely love and get that experience while you can. I'm still young enough to enjoy it, et cetera. So I was just like, oh, my gosh. So I talked to them about that, and I had to make the most difficult phone call in my professional life, certainly in calling John at Stern when I decided I was going to take the job in Amsterdam. And I dreaded it and called him and said, hey, man. And before I said a word, he goes, you're not coming, are you? And I'm like, man, I'm sorry. I was like, I'm so sorry. I got offered this position in Europe. And he like oh Europe He was so cool about it And I thought these people would never talk to me again I thought Stern was going to be like F Nate Shivers get rid of this guy He just drug us around and I felt so bad But it was just one of those things when timing and things lined up, and the Europe thing was big. Taylor was so good to me. It's a great company, and I couldn't not take this opportunity. I'm so fortunate to have the two jobs that I really, really wanted. So how close was I to Stern? I was there. I knew where I was going to be sitting. I had gone and met everybody. I'd had dinner again with Gary. We talked about all the themes that you're seeing released. I sat there across from him at dinner and said, you've got to do Iron Maiden. And he goes, what? And I'm like, Iron Maiden, they've got monsters. I don't know if anybody, I think Jody probably remembers it, but Jody's like, yeah, Iron Maiden. And Jody and I are sitting there going, dude, Iron Maiden would be great. And Gary was looking and I was like, I don't even know what that is. And I'm like, I'm telling you, it would be great. And he's like, okay. So, yeah, anyway, so I was there. And then I wasn't. And I'm pretty confident in saying that I'm in the right place right now. The world work experience I've gotten is invaluable. And someday, if I find myself at a pinball company, I will be so much better off for having done this if I ever do end up somewhere else, which I don't see at this time, but you never know. Well, thank you for pressing that Iron Maiden be made because that is a great theme. It's obviously a fantastic pinball machine. And I don't know if it's thinking outside the box because there have been music pins before, but maybe it's not as mainstream as something like ACDC. Metallica was probably the heaviest thing they had before that. Yeah, yeah. But you realize in your industry the fan bases that are out there for these bands. And again, if it's good pinball, the theme certainly is attractive. And there have been a lot of pinball machines that have great themes. Maybe it's not the great pinball machine. There are themes that don't give you the wow factor, but they are great pinball machines. And so I don't really, for me, I care more about, I personally, as someone who is not an operator and not a hardcore collector, I care about the machine itself being a great pinball machine. I can get on board anything. I think I'm the same way. You know, I think like, yeah, would I rather have Iron Maiden than, you know, ABBA? Sure. Yeah, I would rather have Iron Maiden than ABBA. But if ABBA is Jurassic Park, Keith Elwin design with those rules and that sort of progression, and Iron Maiden is, come on, let's name a not very good pinball machine that won't make somebody mad, Jeff. Name one. Come on. The home pin one, the Thunderbirds. Okay, I got no problem dissing on Thunderbirds. And if the Iron Maiden game is Thunderbirds, I'm going to take the ABBA game every day as far as like owning it or putting a lot of my money into it on location. I agree. I know that you certainly get around to different places. Also in Europe, I know somebody who uses Taylor guitars whenever he comes to Europe, and certainly in the Amsterdam region, Ed Robertson, Bare Naked Ladies, a good friend of yours who uses Taylor guitars. You like to find different pinball locations. Yeah, yeah. Ed's a Taylor guy. It was funny when I met Ed through pinball, it was kind of this thing like, oh, yeah, and by the way, you play the guitar as my company builds. He's like, yeah, I do. I'm like, cool. And that was sort of the extent of our Taylor talk. He's been to the Taylor offices and he meets with my co-worker. It's just not a thing because Ed and I are friends through pinball. And, yeah, and Ed, you know, Taylor's interesting because we, I was telling you this before we started just for full disclosure, we don't pay artists to play our guitars. We're very much like, hey, if you like our guitars, we'll support you as an artist and get you a great price on a guitar. We'll loan you guitars. But we don't really pay anybody to play our guitars, so you'll see artists come and go with us because they're using Taylor now and then they might move on to something else. And that's okay. So when you see someone like Ed who's been playing Taylor for a long time, it's because he really likes the guitars, and that's fantastic. So Ed's son has an album coming out, right? Lyle? Lyle, I think his band has an EP or an album or a single or something coming out. Oh, good for him. High Flyer. High Flyer Music. Okay. We'll have to check that out. There's a shout-out. Very nice. Yeah. So you still get your hand in pinball in the way of the Stern Insider. I think you said there might be some more Roger Sharp interviews to surface? There certainly will be. The recordings that Roger did in the 70s are absolute. They're like a treasure, really. He was so far ahead of what he was doing at the time, you know, with a tape recorder, recording these people in an industry that was getting like there was no like fandom for pinball designers in 1976, really. And yet he's there with Harry Williams talking about, you know, the history of pinball and what can still change and happen. It's absolutely amazing. and when Josh and Roger kind of presented me with this concept of like, hey, could we do something with these? I like saw it instantly. Yes, we absolutely can. The reason they've come out sort of slowly is twofold. Sometimes it's just scheduling. Sometimes it'll take Roger and I a few weeks to find a date where we can set aside and do it. And I just will not go into one of those episodes, like the Sam Stern episode. I knew the Sam Stern story a little bit. I could kind of tell you how it went from Sam Stern to Gary Stern and roughly, but I don't want to talk to Roger Sharp and not know the dates, not know who the people are that are there referencing, not know the games. I want to be pretty dialed in to what we're talking about. And that takes me, I need to listen to these interviews maybe four or five or six times so that I really feel confident talking to Roger, out of respect to Roger, that I'm able to be, you know, much younger and not having lived through those times, but still be able to discuss it with him on a competent level. So it sometimes takes a while. We already know which one we're doing next. The editing of the audio takes a while because those tapes are sometimes a little noisy. And we have some pretty special audio that's really, really noisy. And hopefully one day we'll be able to clean it up enough so that you can make something out of it. But, yeah, there will be more Roger Sharps. They're absolutely amazing, and I love that I've gotten to be a part of that with him. I know you want to clean them up as much as possible. And, again, we're not talking about digital recordings here. We're talking analog that has to be transferred into digital. The Harry Williams one, I think they're eating or something like that in the background. You can hear all kinds of background noise. But you get used to it. And once you have that kind of background noise that you can't do anything about it, your ears kind of just let it go and you're focused in on the conversation. So it didn't bother me at all. Well, and that's after a lot of cleanup, too. Because the original, there's a lot of hissing in there that you can filter out with really good EQs. But, yeah, when you hear the plates and the coffee cups hitting the counters, You can't take those out. Those are just there because they're over there speaking and stuff. But it's some of the room noise, and maybe there's a high-pitched frequency. Like, I go in, and I'll change it, and then I'll go back and listen, and I go, okay, is that better than the original? And sometimes it's not, and you start over, and you go, okay, I made it worse. We recently saw you on Virtual Pinball Expo live from Rotterdam talking about all great things that are Dutch pinball. That was an incredible presentation and some pretty decent homebrews too. I mean, it was funny when they asked me if I'd help them because I think they had the vision. They had this idea of like, hey, we're going to go to the Dutch Pinball Museum and we're going to show off all these things that are happening in the Netherlands because the Netherlands is a small country. It's about the size of Maryland and there's 17 million people here. And they've got all this stuff going on with pinball. And it's funny because the list of people that were going to be a part of it was even longer than what we got. There were some people that just couldn't make it. J.P. Devin with Jersey Jack is here. Pinside is here. Robin was going to try and be a part of it. There was more. So they wanted someone who was a native English speaker since it was being shown at a very United States-focused pinball expo online. They just wanted someone who spoke English and, hey, look, I'm right here. So I knew some of the people a little bit in the group. But as we got into the process, I got to know the guys producing it pretty well. And first of all, great people. They're like the nicest people. you could hope to meet. No surprise the pinball community is generally pretty friendly like that and passionate. So much passion. You look at what Gerard has done there with the Dutch Pinball Museum. It's fantastic. They just moved into this new building that's like a beautiful old historical building on a canal in Rotterdam. Fantastic. And the first time they pitched it to me, I really thought, okay, this is going to be like a Zoom call and we're going to have a Zoom talk about Dutch. Sure, I can do that. And then I said, no, no, no, we're going to film it at the thing. I'm like, oh boy. Cause I, you know, I got a face for radio if you hadn't noticed. So I went there and it was way more pro than I expected. And I was instantly like, okay, I need to like do this right. And we, we, it was a long day into a long night, but we got it. And I'm really proud of the way it came out. And I was happy to help them show off what's going on in the Netherlands. Cause there is a lot. And I have not done a great job of integrating myself into the Dutch pinball community just from my schedule and what I've got going on. And sometimes Sometimes the language can be tough. My Dutch is terrible. It's tough language. But, yeah, so many cool things going on here. And I thought, you know, I probably knew Barry from Dutch Pinball the best out of anybody that was on the show. And Barry and I had spoken multiple times over the years about the Big Lebowski. And I had kind of been there since the very beginning when they showed it off at Pinball Expo 2014, 15, whenever that was. So I thought it was actually pretty kind of cool to loop that back around to talk to him about, hey, like he's kind of going to pull it off on some level. And it looks like where we're at now, people are going to be made whole and games are going to get shipped and they're going to be able to sell some games. And and out of that stretch of kind of bad pinball stories we had, by the way, my show got very popular off of, I will admit, whether it was Predator or the J-pop stuff. It's really cool to see one of those big stories finally sort of circle around and have this successful, I don't want to say ending, it's not an ending, hopefully it's just, it's back on track. Shifting from video back to audio and your podcast with Coast to Coast, you've had incredible shows over the years that I know you're proud of and that really have stood the test of time. There have been some interesting ones too. You mentioned just J-Pop, John Trudeau with his arrest. You did an excellent broadcast on that and maybe that there was some foreshadowing to that. Yeah, that was weird. Yeah, when you look back, I know I'm asked this, and it's difficult for me, so maybe it is for you too. Is there one or a few podcasts that you have created that you go, okay, I'm the most proud of those ones? Yeah.