Hey, baby. Hi, my name is Katya. Where is Mr. Head? Uh, in my pants. Whoa, hey buddy, is that your wife? Yeah. You are Mr. Head? Uh, yeah. Well, uh, I guess I should, like, carry you across the threshold now so we can, like, do it? Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Howe, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Rending games is dirty business. Yeah, and Bruce is tired. I am tired. It's like bar tired. Yeah. And this is episode 166. How you doing? I'm doing great. But we're not alone today. Oh, my God. Do we have a – actually, can we even call him a guest? No. Or is he just like third host today? No, he's your third host. Yeah, you're the co-host now, Ron. Oh, okay. Okay, you guys take over. What are we talking about, man? We have our very own Zach here. If you didn't hear him there. He's with us this week. It's been a little while. It's been a little while. And he has an exciting trivia challenge he's going to have for us. I'm looking forward to beating Bruce at. It's all about winning, Bruce. It is all about winning. Winning. I'm winning. I'm winning. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I'm going to tell you. I'm losing again. To say news is light is an understatement. Well, we had one big news item, thank God. Two big items. Two big items? From the same company. From the same company. Yes. So, other than that, nothing's going on. So, let's get into that news item. Bruce. Bally Bruce. Bally Bruce is here. Hi. How are you doing? That used to be your nickname. Had to pull him out of storage. Yeah, we had to pull him out of storage. That used to be Bruce's thing. Just Bally's the war. At the club, I was a bit. Surprised to see there are even two Bally's left. Yep, there's only two. Only two. But does this news excite you, Bruce? Bally Bruce? Yes, it does. Very much so. So Haggis, Haggis Pinball, out of Australia, mate, they have made a licensing arrangement with Rick at Planetary Pinball, and they are going to be remaking five old Bally games. and they're starting with Fathom. Dive again. And not just original. Yeah, not just any Fathom. They're going to have two versions. Now, I don't know if they're going to do this for all five games. I would assume so because you're already doing the first one. It's kind of weird going backwards. Yeah, I mean, on the hand, it sounds like everyone just wants the LE one. Yeah, yeah. Well, if sales end up being that low for the other one, they clearly just won't bother or something. Yeah, so for this one, they're going to have the Classic Edition and the Mermaid Edition. Now, the Classic Edition is what it says. It's your original fathom. Mm-hmm. No frills. It will have their indestructible playfield. It will have the LED displays. Yeah, LED... I guess if they got plasmas. Yeah, that would make it more expensive. That would be it. The ultimate classic edition. We got the plasma displays. It cost another $500. It could have come with NOS ballet boards, too. There you go. And one display on the apron. I thought it was inside, actually, an op apron. I thought it was on the apron. Because if you look at the pictures, they show one on the apron. when you look at the picture for the one on the left and one on the right on the apron itself. The feature matrix says cabinet mounted 3.5-inch display. And then for the Mermaid, it says two 6.8-inch LCD screens. So 3.5-inch is not going to fill an instruction card. Yeah. I'm assuming that means it's actually inside the door or something or some other weird little place that it's hidden just because I go in the service menus and things. Yeah. Don't, yeah, don't know. I'll go with Zach. He's usually right. The second edition is called the Mermaid Edition, and that is the high-end, super pretty, it's going to have the two LCD screens. Yes. It's going to have the option of a 2.0 rule set. Well, not an option. It comes with it. It comes with it, but it's an option to me because you can do classic Fathom or new Fathom. And just that alone makes me wonder who would want the Classic Edition if you're going to. I still like the Classic. $1,500 more, you can get a new rule set and LED lighting. You could have Clampuke pre-installed on your game. Oh, well, we haven't seen it. It could look awesome. Ambient cabinet lighting. It's RGB lighting, but it's rather, you should have done GB lighting. Yeah, you don't need no stinking red. and Marty, our old Marty is going to be doing the rules Marty from Final Round Pinball Podcast or Head to Head I'd like to know they listed all the people involved they listed Ward Pemberton and Greg Ferrer in there too, in the credits I feel like Chicago Gaming they just don't mention the original people at all Lavin didn't even know they were remaking one of his games or something yeah, exactly, they're at least showing props props to the best art package ever. Yes. So their plan is to start manufacturing July 1st at their new facility, and 50 per month. And when you do order a Mermaid Edition, you actually get free shipping to the United States also. Yeah, well, free shipping to Rick in Vegas, which if he moved, I thought he was in California. Yeah, he did move. He's now in Vegas. Okay, so Rick at Planetary Pinball in Vegas, and then you pay the shipping from there, which if you're East Coast, would kind of suck. It's still a lot, but it's better than going from Australia. Yeah, trust me, I know that. It's really less than $1,500 more because you are paying for cross-ocean shipping in that $1,500. So it's really a good deal to go for the Mermaid. Yes, and like Zach said, I'm going to be curious to see how many classic editions they actually sell. It might be one of all. I'd love to see the production numbers on both of these, like out of this continuum. them. I'd love to see the production numbers on Celts, too. Celts! Celts! Hold on, let's keep on going with this, though, first. They are only going to sell 250 Mermaid editions, or as many as are sold before, what was it, the 15th or 13th, I think it was, they had a cut-off date. 15th of May? 15th of May, so it was only given like three weeks, which is pretty smart, I feel like for a manufacturer, you're like, oh, I wonder how many more parts I need to order. You just know before you even start the run, I need to order exactly this many parts. Yep, and maybe 10 extra just in case there's defects, or 20 extra in case there's defects, that kind of stuff, yes. How many do you think they're going to sell? You got one thing. You get early order if you're part of the Haggis clan member. If you're a Haggis clan member, which has already passed, but basically they did the spooky thing. Yes. The same thing spooky did. But they did not sell out like Spooky Day. No, they did not. And it's more to pay for the Haggis Club than it was the Spooky Club also. Wow. So, how much do you think they're going to sell out of? How many do you think they're going to sell of Fathom Mermaid? Since that's the one we're really going to be talking about because I can't see. There's 250. I think they'll get at least around 200, maybe sell out. So I think there's enough people that have money to buy new games. I think it's going to be down to the wire. Like the last couple days, they'll probably put out another video saying, hey, we're down to the last 30 or 40. This is your only chance. Yeah, it's either going to be 200 or it's going to be a sellout because they're going to get near the end and then advertise it's only 15 left. Yes, exactly. Get it now. People are panicking. They'll go, oh, my God. Take a hammer, show them hitting the play field over and over. Look at this. Look at this. This could be your fathom. Indestructible. I feel like they're going to sell a good amount of these, but then when they get to, like, the second or third Bally remake, a lot of people will like having some random old Bally remake in their collection, but how many people are going to want two or three or four Bally remakes in their collection, let alone five? That's their other deal, too. They're having a thing where you can order all five. You can put deposit down, the $1,500 on all five. So for those doing the math, five times 1,500. And it preserves your spot for all five, which to my knowledge they haven't announced the other four. Yeah. Other than to say that it's going to be the ones you think it is, like Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man is probably not going to be in there. What? Oh, I fail. No Blackjack? No Blackjack. So it's going to be Class of 81. It's going to be 8-Ball Deluxe. It's going to be Centaur. To me, those are guaranteed. They're guaranteed. Flash Gordon, though, that's movie license. Is that going to be an issue? Probably. See, I don't know what the rights are for that kind of stuff. Although it's an old movie, so it's probably much easier. Yeah, yeah. I think if the movie rights aren't an issue, then that's definitely going to be one of them. So then you have the four. What's the fifth one? Crickets. Crickets. Oh, so you think Frontier? Yes. Even though it's not a class of 81? Yeah, I do because you can't include Medusa because they're not going to pay for zipper flippers. Unless they just do the Fireball Classic approach. That would be terrible. Yeah, that would be awful. That would be terrible. So you can't do that. So I think it's going to be either Frontier. Let's go down. Could it be Frontier? Could it be – it's not going to be Nitro Groundshaker, of course. It's not going to be Playboy. It's not going to be Silverball Mania. That's maybe Skateball. Skateball. That's a possibility. That's got a lot of things to shoot at, too, to help with rulesets. Or Viking. Oh, Viking, yeah. Or another one we don't talk about a lot, but they did sell a lot of them, Xenon. It's not a great game. I feel like Xenon is like the exact opposite of what you'd want. That's what's easy enough to find, to restore, that most people who want a nice, shiny Xenon can get one. Yeah, they made a ton of Xenons. That's why I'm saying the Frontier. It's one of the rarer games. You can't find them in nice shape. They're all beat to hell usually to playfields. It's got Kenny Rogers on it. Yeah. I mean, the one is a fan. Crickets and more crickets. Keith Elwin has a Frontier t-shirt. Yes, he does. It ain't going to be no Spectrum. No. No. All right. So, if I was in the market for any $9,000 pinball machine, I would probably be waiting for the Centaur one. Yep. I'm just wondering, like, what kind of board set they're going to use for this. They said on one of the other channels that they're using fast. No. What's that mean? It's basically the main competitor to P3 in, like, the homebrew space, but no commercial game has used it yet, which is interesting. No, what's interesting is, I believe for Kelt's, Haggis used P3. Yep, that's correct. So for this, you're using the competitor's product. Supposedly. Okay. No confirmation from the actual manufacturer on that. When you said that, I vaguely remember reading that somewhere. I mean, you probably read it when I sent it to you somewhere. I thought I actually saw it, too. But the thing is, we forgot about Haggis when we were talking about the P3 club. American Pinball and Spooky. We forgot about Haggis. I totally forgot Kels ran on that. Yeah, but we didn't have it. We didn't see Kels live until this past week. But now they are. Yes. Dr. John Koston, friend of the show in Australia, he received the first one, Kels number one. It looks very colorful. Yeah, it has his own name on the back glass. Yes. Which kind of sounds like it could be Scottish, Koston. like how it wouldn't work. I don't think that that wouldn't sound. I don't think that would fit the theme. I like the look of the second display in the play field. Yeah. And it has the, it's got a cross section of the play field. Well, what is it on top of it? I think it's acrylic. He said, okay. Although I was thinking, cause it's like two thirds wood, one third plastic, right? Yeah. If I remember correctly, it's like using three, eight screws to hold all the max in. Like, we're going to have, like, two years down the road, all the flipper mechs start falling out. Well, he did mention there were adjustments that were made due to the thickness of the play field. Yeah. I thought it was the same thickness as normal. He said things with mounting on some of the mechs are different. Yeah. He did say that. I remember that, sir. Yeah, I'd love to actually get under one of these and look at it. Yeah. Well, we've got to wait a little while because I don't think any are coming to the United States soon. I think it's mostly going to be – there's probably some sold in the United States, but will we see one in the – We know of one. Where? One of our co-op members is buying one, aren't they? Well, they're buying the Mermaid, but not the... I'm talking about Kelts. Oh, Kelts. Yeah, we'll probably screw down Kelts. But the Mermaid will be the same thing, probably. Yeah. We have one of our people in the co-op that's getting one. So, Ron, are you getting one? No. What? You've been buying somebody, right? Or the Wings April Deluxe. I would see... The thing no one's talked about. I want to play one. How does it play? True. Yeah, true. It's going to have probably all WPC mechs in it. Yeah, all different mechs. How will it feel? Because a lot of it, and we talked about this, a lot of it is feel. Things like the Chicago Gaming remakes, Attack for Mars, Flippers Don't Feel Right, et cetera, et cetera. Jersey Jack. That's terrible. Never felt great anyway. Like, it's not like it's a smooth shooter or something. No, no. It's a valley. It's a game where Flipper Hop is built right in. It doesn't play like an old Stern would play. It's not that kind of play. But, you know, how close will it play to the original? And will that be an issue? Will people even care? People buy JGPs. They won't care. Oh! Oh, Ron. Wow! What are you saying? My dialed-in plays fine if you jack the flipper power all the way up. We have it dialed in at the co-op. I went and jacked the flipper power all the way up. It still plays like shit. You got bad voltage, man. 121 oh it must not be the right kind of 121 yeah we have aced it only has a half cycle you need to go to Australia where all Jersey Jack games play incredible you need 240 baby that's what it is you need high voltage no we need the high tap the transformer or whatever they're using to make it more powerful JJP's flippers suck their power problem but they're Williams they're WPC flippers The problem is, that's nice, but they still suck for feel. It's like a mushy rubber band. That's the best description for a J.J.P. It is not snappy, I'll give you that. As an owner, I will admit. It's like, bleh. Well, I'll tell you, here's what I did the other day. I played, I was playing some Jurassic Park. And then you went to J.J.P.? No, no, no. Then I went to Star Wars. Okay. And then I went to attack from bars, so I'm all amped up, you know, used to that. And then I went on, dialed in, and it felt like I was in slow motion. Oh, God. That game is just. But, you know, I could argue that's just the way they play. That's their style. Why do you want them to play like a stern when it's not a stern? You wouldn't expect an old Bally to play like a Williams. It should play like a Williams with a Williams mech. I just wanted to have to spend like 30 minutes adjusting my aim after playing any other game to be able to hit shots. I don't mind if it comes out that strong, but I want to be able to shoot the same spot in the flipper and hit crap. Yes. I'm just trying to get, you know, why doesn't it play like a Sturt? Well, it's not a Sturt. But it should be like a Williams. It should be like a Williams. You played an AFM. Your AFM is Williams using Williams WPC mechs. If you went from that game to the other game, it should feel almost the same. Shouldn't Spooky play like a Williams? Yeah, it should. It should. I agree. It also doesn't, and we can talk about that too. Yes. Well, Zach, what was your thing that you discovered? They have a dual-wound coil just like Williams did, but they don't use the hold winding at all. Yeah, they're just using only the power winding, it seems like, and they're just treating it like a stern-style coil, where they just BWM it to hold it. Which means if you have a game like TNA that has no EOS switch, you're screwed. Basically, if the ball comes down hard enough and hits that flipper and it starts to go down, it's not going to re-engage the high power. It's not going to re- It's not going to- However it cycles so it's high power again, it's not going to do it because it doesn't know it's going down because it has no EOS switch. At the same time, if we look at my Johnny Mnemonic when you bought it before you presumably fixed the EOS switches- I did. Both of them were broken for me. Mm-hmm. The flipper's never fell down on a WPC because it's got a separate hold coil that's strong enough to hold the damn flipper up. Use it. And they did use it in Rick and Morty, and it still sucks. Well, they also switched to the single-mount coil, Rick and Morty. I know, but it's just, I don't know why they keep on trying to reinvent the fucking wheel. It is weird that you had a system that pretty much everyone universally is like, yeah, this assistant works great. Like, even, almost Williams, even if your EOS switch was broken, it would compensate the software. The world either thinks that Williams with WC mechs are the best ever, or they think Stern stand flippers are the best ever. Well, we proved Sam Flippers are pretty durable. That's later on. Okay. I was about to say. The only argument you can get for the stern ones, though, is just the overheating. Because they're using a single-wound coil, and it just gets off. But, like, on a cool game, they play really good. And some, you don't even notice it. You really don't. It's when you play the 30-minute Lord of the Rings games. That's when you notice the flip. Well, then you cry because you're on Lord of the Rings, and you just don't want to be playing a game that long. You're in a world under glass, man. Check, cut, one! This fair is beyond any of you. Run! Run! We also have another fun problem at the co-op. We have a... Well, let's go to the co-op then. So, we done with Haggis? Yeah, congratulations on Haggis. Congratulations on Kelts. And congratulations on the Mermaid Edition. So it's very nice to see a different path for a company. Because I really didn't know what the path of Haggis was going to be. I think it was a great idea. Oh, great. For a long time, I thought they were just like a homebrew person who just made really fancy videos. And I'm like, well, no, they're from the second game. And they asked the answer to the question if you ever thought like Chicago Gaming had some kind of exclusive deal with Planetary Pinball. They didn't. It was for their stuff. That'd be great if someone else just licensed Haggis Canyon Remake. That'd be fucking hilarious. But I just want to say, I do love the, do you notice on their apron, they have the Haggis logo and the Bally plot? Yes. I thought that was a really nice touch. Yeah. The back glass is beautiful. I wonder, is that a real back glass or is it a translate? He said it was real. He said they still screen them themselves there. They have search screens. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So what I want to see from Haggis, and we'll ask him hopefully in a couple of weeks when we hopefully have this little teaser here, I want to see one other manufacturer get rebuilt. And we all know my favorite and your favorite, Ron. Oh, Scott Lee. No. Can you make old Sterns? You know, if you made a Quicksilver or Stargazer, you could make a killing. Especially in Australia. That would be great. I would love to see that. That would be, then you would not have the problem of having, you would, think about it. What five sterns would you make if you were going to have an exclusive five sterns? Ooh, five sterns. That's, ooh, that's, you came up with a good idea for once. Wow. Which silver? Meteor. No, meteor, they made a ton of meteors. They made a ton of meteors. Yeah, but it's the best one, so. Yeah, again, it doesn't matter if it's the best one. They made a ton of them. You think Fathom's the best valley? I didn't. I think it's the most beautiful valley. I didn't think it was a great game. Do you think it's the most desirable Valley? Judging by the prices, people are paying for them, yes. People are not paying those kind of prices for Meteor. I don't see any $5,000 Meteor's out there. So, Stargazer and Quicksilver. Yep, Stargazer and Quicksilver. Most expensive two-sterns by far. Then what? Dragon Fist. Nah. I have to say Dragon Fist. Yeah, but no one wants that. Yeah, no one even knows what it is. No one even knows what that is. Everyone's like, what the hell is this game? I didn't know there was a Bruce Lee game. What the hell? Okay, so you're not going to say that. No. Well, see, that's the problem, and that's why I don't think it would happen. There's not enough demand for it. I mean, you don't need to make five either, technically. You're going to make stars again with the 2.0 code? Again, you can get stars. You can get stars. There'd be tons of them. You need stuff that's low production that's desirable. That's the same thing. Dragon's Fist. Cheetah, but it's a wide body, so they're not going to do that. No. But if they did do included wide bodies, we would then have more of expansion on the ballet side also. Yeah. Well, at least... No, because valleys are going to be super wide. Yeah, different dimensions. At least with a cheetah, you can just use a super-pinned lockdown bar. No need to do tooling for that. But if they're super wide, you have to do a whole bunch of work. Can you use a lockdown bar? They're different widths, though. But they're close enough you could probably just squeeze the playfield a bit. Squeeze it? It's like a quarter inch or something. Yeah. Okay, so if you were going to include sterns with the wide bodies, of course cheetah. Of course big game. No. No, not of course big games. Nah, I don't think that would be desirable. Cheetah is more desirable. Okay, how about a Viper, guys? We've proven that Viper can sell. Because one just did sell. A Viper, okay. A Viper. What did it sell for? The only Viper I've ever seen. $4,400 on eBay. How much? $4,400. $4,400 for a Viper. Yeah. He posted this last week on Facebook. Not Facebook. He did put it on Facebook. He put it on. He meaning the seller. Yes. And he tried to make it like an auction, best bid. And somebody complained about it. Not me, but somebody complained about it on Pinside, and his ad was taken down. So then he contacted all the people who contacted him and said, I'm putting it on eBay. I said, what's your expected, what do you want for it? He goes, I'm expecting 5K. So we didn't get that. And with the eBay fees, he probably made probably about $3,800 or $3,900. Disappointment? Probably for him For a pretty nice Viper It was beautiful I don't know if the back glass was real I think that back glass was a Translight That's the only thing that scared me on that game But you could look that up in completed auctions For eBay Okay, Viper So they need to make a Viper Cheetah, a Viper, a Stargazer And a Farfall No, no, no, a Freefall Freefall? Farfall, what? Make a Freefall, you can actually shoot the shot Yeah, that's going to make the shot. The most important shot. I got the balance in there. I think we answered our own question being that we're having trouble coming up with five. I don't think it's going to happen. I think you guys are wrong. No. No. No, we're not. The thing is, like, if you're only making 250 or 200 dragon fists, you've now equaled the number. You should make 302 dragon fists. Yeah, so you're one ahead. Yeah. But I'm saying you still have the desirability. You know how much people have asked? Wait a second. When I posted my picture of my Metallica for sale, which I did sell my ACDC the past week. We'll go down a few seconds. But I posted a picture of my Metallica for sale, and right next to it was the Dragon Fist. How many people do you think emailed me or commented saying, How much for the Dragon Fist in the background? How many do you think? Five. Zach, how many do you think? Well, I saw one, so I'm going to go with two. Nine. Wow, that's nine guaranteed sales there, Haggis. You found all nine possible people. It's better than one or two, you would think, because you're saying this is such a rare game that nobody wants. There's people out there who want it. I don't know if it would sell for that price. It wouldn't sell for that price. I think you'd have to go cheaper. And it would get cheaper because is Stern still licensed by Stern? I know we heard back in the 90s and 2000, his wife had it. Yeah, I thought his wife had it. Yeah. I don't know. After 2012, I heard there was different things. I mean, you could also, your bill of materials would be less, because Stern was already chipping out on all their stuff, too, so there's not that much in Dragon Fist. No. Or Stargazer. Bruce sold the game. Okay, so we're segueing to the next thing. Bruce sold the game. What did you sell, Bruce? ACDC Premium. Oh. Ron's disappointed. because that was his favorite band, but I did sell it. You had that forever. I bought a brand-new box. That's the one that had the issue with the window from hell, the biggest insert ever. Yes. Did you sell the new play field with it? I gave the play field to the guy. I didn't sell it. I gave it to him. But how much do you think a non-home use only – Well, yeah, because it went to the bar. Very expensive. Now, hold on. How many plays do you think were on my 1.70 code? Which is the newest code. It only came out, what, three or four years ago? Yeah, but it was at the bar the whole time. I know. How many plays do you think were on the ACPC? I don't know. 500. Zach? Just multiply that by 10. Yeah. It was actually more. It was 10,000. 10,000 plays. Wow. That's only on 1.7 code. So now think of how many versions there were of code before that with Lyman. there had to be like almost 60 to 70 yeah but it wasn't in the bar in that time I know but we did play a longer time too so how much do you think I got for a non home use only lots of plays ACDC premium uh 7k Zach 7,001 so 72.50 oh damn it You're close, Ron, but Zach was closer. I'm the contestant on the Price is Right. Yes. $7,250, plus I drove it down to him for another extra $250. Oh, that wasn't even included? Wow. No. I assume that was part of the deal. Ooh, so I made $7,500 on an ACDC premium. Wow. Damn maybe I should sell mine What are you going to do with all that money Put it towards the house The house Yeah Which is now we in the final weeks and months We have a date, June 15th. The final weeks and months. That's a different, that's, yeah. Well, it's six weeks, but one month plus. Yeah, so I'll need some help with moving, guys. Wink, wink, hint, hint. I'm a long way away, man. You're not. You're really close. and we have room now for you to stay at. Plus my spine is shit. Don't expect me to lift anything. You look pretty. I'll look pretty. Okay. But yeah, so that's why I use that for that money. I might sell my Metallica premium. Why? Might. I had one guy offer me $7,500 for my Metallica premium, but of course he flaked out. I guess they're just selling games. You have been, except you just sell them at good prices. And I'm not selling those games. I'm selling, like, No Fears and roller games. No Fears goes for, like, $4K now, though. They do. Which is insane. Yeah. So let's go into repairs a little bit. Okay, this is co-op mode, co-op mode. This is for the Rochester Pinball Co-op. This is our co-op segment, which will probably be almost every episode until the place opens, because you guys got to fix a lot of games. We've been fixing. We got to clean a lot of games and fix a lot of games. I was there. What did you think? It's nice. I visited last weekend and was studying the layout for the streaming possibilities. The rig is back together, and it even fits Hot Dog in, and Genie. If it fits those, it'll fit anything. So we're good there. Yeah, kind of try to figure out where the PC is going to be, and you'll be happy to know, with the exception of the PC itself, I ordered all the equipment yesterday. Thank you. So we're going to start putting that together. We have to get the cable next. That's this week's plan for Internet. And I believe Zach already has the Twitch name ready, which it's short, thank God. I was hoping you didn't do Rochester Pinball Collective, like the full name. Oh, God. Can you even do all that long? Like, is that allowed? I don't know. Well, you have it, so I think we can say it's going to be ROC Pinball. No, that's good. So look for it coming to a stream near you. It's going to be tournament streams, and hopefully you guys will do some tech streams. Oh, definitely. I just want to hear you two argue. I think that will be plenty of entertainment. it. Well, we have to do something fun soon with tech because Zach has to replace every light socket on what? Straight shooter. Straight shooter. I was going, straight shooter? What's that? What is it, Zach? It's the co-ops requisite wood rail. Yes, we have a wood rail. Every pinball location needs at least one wood rail. It's just common sense. But every light socket's bad on it. And Zach's been hemming and hawing about how to do this. So last night we came of them plan. We're going to bring some pillows to the co-op and then sleep. And then sleep. You're going to sleep in the co-op because it's going to take that long. Yeah, no. We're going to take the play field out of the game, put it on pillows, and flip it upside down like Ron would do and replace all the light sockets at once. So we've ordered our light sockets from PBR. Yeah, but it should be here Monday. Yes, so we'll start prepping the sockets first. just grind down and solder and pre-solder and then ready to rock. Ron's favorite thing. You want to come out for that, Ron? No. No, I would just break them off and use the existing tab. Oh, God, no. That's the way I do it. It worked on all the games I did. I've never had a problem. Zach? That's my way, too. Whatever. Or you can just get tabs. I went about trying that, and then I tried to, like, snap off one of these sockets, and they're, like, so hard. thick metal, like you can't bend them and break them. Well, I actually have a cutter, so it does make it easier. Ooh, a cutter. Yeah. I was replacing sockets on my Stern Dracula, and those ones will just twist right off. Yeah, because they're Stern. So I finally replaced my flippers on my Star Trek LE at the co-op. We were cleaning it yesterday, and it was pretty dirty. I rented it out four times since the bar closed. and Zach went over and grabbed the flippers because I had the rubbers off them and he's like, these sound like crap, just moving and feeling them. And he's like, these are terrible. So he flips up the play field and looks at the links and the links are destroyed. So we start taking them apart. And Zach, I'll let you continue because you were taking it apart. We looked at the link and it had the most play I've ever seen in any game made since the 80s. the hole in the link was just twice as long as it was wide at this point, which is crazy. We took out the coil stops and they were mushroomed incredibly, as were the plungers. When we got to the broken off home, the EOS switches were broken on one. When we got to the crank, we saw that the return spring, because it loops through a little tab on the end of the crank, it had eaten halfway through that tab. The spring was still good. The spring was still good. Wait a minute. So the spring ate through the metal. Yes. Is that like the cheapest metal ever? How is that possible? Except I'm wearing it. It's a thick metal tab. How is that? Wow. Yeah. Swear to God. Okay. So we were laughing while we were doing this going, I wonder how many plays are on this thing. You know, flips. And on the right flipper, how many flips do you think were done? Come on. I don't know. 200,000. Okay. You are a third off. 665,000 flips. That's a lot of flips. That's a lot of fucking flips. And the game had about 7,000 plays on that last code. That code's pretty old though, right? It's been from 2016, 2017, when, uh, what's his name, redid it. That's a lot of flips. That's a lot of fucking flips. And guess what? Guess what held the best on them? The coil stops didn't fall apart at all. Yeah, they must have been their earlier design. Yeah, we'll see now since we just put replacements in. We'll see if they fall apart. They'll fall apart instantly. The coil sleeves are actually broken off, like the tab that holds the coil sleeve into the coil. That was actually snapped off, missing half of it. Cool. Good job. Remind me not to rent any games from you. Oh. They worked. They worked. They worked. You sound like an operator now. The clipper moved up and down. And down. Reliably. Well, you know, the spring worked. Because it was wearing into the... You can make all the shots. What do you want? Yeah. And then I fixed AFM for you because your plastic... I don't know how this happened. The plastic... Yeah, the upper right plastic was in a weird position. It didn't look broke. Somebody had to take it apart. But, yeah, when I'm looking at it, it's like, it's not broken. It looks like somebody just mounted it wrong. And, wait, it was not like that at the bar. It wasn't. So you have gremlins in the co-op who just covertly moved it. No, not the co-op. Who rented it. I rented that three times. Oh, somebody just turned one plastic around. I couldn't fucking tell you. Maybe that's their trademark. Whenever they rent a game, they just turn one plastic, kind of like that special post at what's-his-face had in the Valley Games. That's this guy's trademark. I fixed the Sea Witch, so that one has background sound. Ron, for you. Why is it always for me? Did you fix it or did you just move the broken board the other game? I moved the broken board the other game, but the new board is it. I had the new board, so I'll be able to. But at least I proved it was either the soundboard or the soundboard. I mean, on Facebook, Bruce is calling me a bastard because I made him fix Harlan Globetrotters. I wasn't even the one who mentioned the light thing. Oh, wait. Zach said you were. No. I wasn't the one who mentioned the light thing. At first, we thought one light was out, and then we're looking at it, and Zach was like, these lights are really dim. I'm like, yeah, they're really dim. And the next thing you know, it's my fault because I agreed with him. So it's my fault. It's your fault because you were there and you're new. I was there and I was new, and I got blamed. Well, we only had, what, 3.2 volts on that, I think it was? Yeah, it was great. I can't believe the lights we were turning on. Yeah. So I replaced the rectifier board on that, and, of course, now we have full lights. We've proven this now twice. We had the same problem again. I feel like even if everything seems right, you should always replace the rectifier board. Yeah. That's pretty much what I've done, yeah. Yeah, most of mine are done. I have like maybe two that are not. We're losing so many listeners right now. Oh, Tech Talk. Boring. Boring. We're the only podcast with Tech Talk listeners, but we get 100% of the Tech Talk audience. Oh, we do. I think I saw another pinball podcast that literally was called Repair Whatever or something. Burn them down. I visited over the weekend, like I said. And the first thing, I got co-opted, of course, into helping with games. And the first one we looked at was actually Blackout, which we're doing for a customer. So we get the thing all back together, and we're playing a game, me and Zach. And it's like, okay, you've got to get Blackout. And we both fail to get Blackout. And Zach's there like, ah, we're done. And I'm like, wait a minute. You have to check that. That's like the whole gimmick of the game. You have to make sure that's working. And Zach's like, ugh. So it's like, okay, I just start a game, and I just do it by hand. put it in the scoop and it doesn't work i'm like see i didn't even notice it didn't work like i was like yep the lights all blinked yep yep good it's like see it did work the lights didn't go out and it was all because the connector to the little um what relay there one of the wires fell out and then no one had a pin extractor so they call me yeah where's the pin extractor so i ended up just using a small straight screwdriver, and I was able to get the pin out. Which I told him what to do. I said, just do it that way. That's what I told you. And, yeah, then we crimped it, and boom, worked immediately. Like, ah, there you go. Now you'll have a happy customer. And that is actually one of the nicest blackouts. That's one of the nicest blackouts I've ever seen. I don't know. That guy lucked out. And it plays good. Blackout, blackout, blackout. It plays really good. And that's going to be delivered today in another couple hours. A rare non-ripped-off Claude Fernandez design. Nah, it's still Flash. No, it's not. And he ripped off the five bank. It's got the three bank. No, no, no. Skateball is when he ripped off Flash. Get it right. Oh, he did it twice. One time he put the extra three bank on the right. One time he put the extra three bank on the left. That's called innovation. He does have the five bank on the left and the three bank in the center. That is classic Steve Ritchie there. No. And originally the five bank was supposed to be drop targets too, just like some other game we know. Okay. So what else did we do with repairs? We've been cleaning AFM. We cleaned a bunch of games. I'm doing lights. Oh, I get to finally put the light boards in on Nineball that I got. Lovely. Yeah, that'll be fun. Zach hates those. It's not a big deal. I said the same thing. And on iBull, you've got plenty of room because you can remove the entire bank, which is funny. It's only just four screws holding that whole, like, 10-pound mech in. I know. I hated doing the Meteor ones. The Meteor one was pretty. I've even, like, I've got the Meteor ones from my Meteor. I've never gotten around to installing them. And a lot more work still going on. I have now a weird sound of a dragon fist. Is it the sound of a dragon? No, it's click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. like a grounds issue or something. Isn't that what it's supposed to sound like? No. What does the background sound of Dragon Fist sound like? Um, bad? Yeah. It sounds clickier if you let it run for a long period of time. No, it just goes right to clicking. It gets worse and worse and worse, and you're like, oh, just punch the ball. It just makes little beeps over and over and over again at various times. Mine sounds staticky and crackly and everything. There's got to be something going on. Okay. A lot of light sockets, that kind of fun stuff. Like, it's funny. Zach has a list for the co-op repairs. He has a spreadsheet, and it's big. Yes, it is. It is really big. You want to guess how many items are on that spreadsheet currently? 176. Ron, what's your guess? 177. 110 currently. Damn it! I should have said a dollar. That's a lot of issues Well, are your games grounded, Bruce? No Then you will not be able to go to the Louisville Arcade Expo What? What do you mean I can't go to the Louisville Arcade Expo? Zach tells me the show's organizers are like If your game doesn't have that third prong, that ground prong You can't bring the game there so almost three quarters of the ems from probably 66 67 on oh every em from 66 67 on no you can't do it and pretty much every bruce game no almost every there's only three that don't have it i'm trying to imagine like how do you add a ground to an em you can't well you could you'd have to go you'd have to run the third wire. You'd have to then run the ground wire to major. You'd have to manually connect all the metal on the surface. Yeah, you would have to. But you see, they care about their safety, Bruce. Wait, but what if it's a wood rail? Wait a second, what if it's a wood rail? If it's a wood rail... Oh, yeah. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, they have wood rails, they have the metal flipper buttons, and then it's actuating a metal thing with fish paper in the metal. It's like, what happens if that fish paper falls off? Like, well, you're getting a shock. Woo-hoo! That seems like a slight design flaw. Nice tingle. Two fingers in the pinball, one in the bottom. That's called the shocker. Well, it's still better than the high hand that Ron was helping me with. That way, we ended up leaving it with just no flipper button installed on one side for now. Yeah, I know. Exactly. Just reach in and hit the high push contacts directly if you want to play. I've done that if I was in a good game. That's how stupid I am. I like to think, God damn it, put my finger in there, I'm playing. I'm having a good game. We do have one issue at the co-op we're trying to figure out, which was Grand Lizard. Why you have it there? Well, besides playing it and having it there, yes. The bottom flippers, the lower flippers, feel like a JJP. Oh, I'm sorry. Everything's new. With higher powered coils. Bad interconnects? There's no interconnects on that. Oh, there isn't? No. Direct off the board. That's right. System 11. Never mind. Then I don't know. And AC is good. The voltage is good going to it, the DC voltage. And Zach checked the rectifier board yesterday. And no burnt connectors. I don't know. Figure it out. Yeah. If anybody has any ideas, message us at Slant. I mean, sort of just our next step would be just to, like, replace everything. the mech, the whole assembly. Not the whole assembly, but like, put a brand new end of stroke, put a brand new cabinet switch, recap and re-vectrify the rectifier board, redo the connector, you know, just like, do it. One thing that's bad about this game, where did it come from, Zach? TNT, right? Yes. Wow. Oh, I see some of these TNT goodness on this game, and oh my God. No love there, huh? Oh my god. He might be in love with his videos and his corniness, but... But Bruce doesn't care. The play field is just... Oh my god. Zach? It's got a nice texture to it. Yeah, very good texture to it. Bruce hates everybody, folks, if you haven't noticed. Oh, I hate people who charge out the ass to poor people who don't suspect that it's a bad deal for them. and everyone thinks like, oh, I'd get a TNT. No, you would not get a TNT game. No, you would not. Would you not buy that? I would not buy that in a second. Even if he had a Viper that he was saying was restored, I would not buy that. Or a Dragon Fist. No way in hell. We'll add another one to the Bruce enemy list. It's very long. The paint strokes are just incredible on this game. The strokes are incredible? Yes. You see the lines. The strokes are incredible, Bruce. It's a kiss game. Yes. Okay, okay. Any more co-op stuff? No, I think we're still working on it. We have a tentative date to open, though. Oh, okay. What's the tentative date, Bruce, for everyone out there? Get ready. It is June 5th. This is Saturday. Soft open. Soft open. And then we're talking about a tournament probably at the end of June. Wow. You'll have to get prepared, Ron. I better get the streaming working by then. Yes, you will. You'll have to get it. You have a goal now. Okay. 45 pinball machines on free play. So I was there this past weekend, and I got to play Zach's homebrew. Again. Which still doesn't have a name. Again. Come on, people. Give it a name. Actually, don't bother. Zach hates every single name, so it doesn't matter. No, he does. It's terrible. It doesn't matter. He hates everything. He is Mikey. He's called Mikey for now. But I, well, this is the first time I played this iteration of the homebrew with the new play field that has all the actual displays in it, and it's not using an overhead projector anymore. So that was pretty cool. What was weird was hearing my own voice in the game. Why would you hear your, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am the narrator, kind of. Pretty much literally in many cases. Yeah, it's me and the guy from World Poker Tour who narrate the game. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. So Gene Simmons is on this game with... No, you get that. No, I didn't do Gene Simmons. I just did me. Oh, Stewie, Stewie. No, I wanted to do, like, nice emotional call-outs, but Zach was very insistent on nope. Have you ever watched people play poker? Yeah, yeah. You're not going to, like, fool, how? Well, Poker Tour has a very emotional jackpot, you know. And they also got like a rock band playing in the background for the music, which doesn't make sense either. Yeah, it should be like country music. Or just nothing. Just the quiet murmur of a crowd in the background. That would have been funny. Just like the crowd murmur gets more intense when you keep playing. Great multiball! So what did you think, Ron, of the new iteration? When it worked, it was great. Woo! Ooh. Well, we had the play field was getting hot because he's got the, what do you have on top of the play field? Acrylic. Acrylic. It was getting. Sort of like somebody's actually talked about. Yeah. So he had like, well, his raspberry pie is underneath getting super hot, and it's making the acrylic hot, so it starts to misshape the acrylic, so the flipper starts binding. Actually, I'm wondering, maybe it's not. Because I've done a test where like the raspberry pie runs like 24-7, you know, and it doesn't get that hot enough to make. I'm wondering if it's actually like the flipper coils. After like two hours, it started to bind. We're like, why is this flipper sticking and moving slowly? Is there something wrong with the mech? No. The playfield is physically expanded in thickness. Yep. It's the playfield's getting excited. I'm sorry. I love getting thicker playfields. I knew that was coming. You know those fancy new pin monk fans that are going on all the new games now? Yeah. I found a 3D printed file online, so I'm just going to 3D print my own fan mounts and stick them in. Nice So The only other stuff was just That one ramp switch would just keep not working It was a little flaky Most of them were just flaky switches Or if it got confused Or weird things Like when I would go to put my initials in It wouldn't be in alphabetical order I still have to figure that one out You start from the back Z, Y Where's R And then I go back up and there it is It, like, wouldn't be there, and then it would be there. Just weird stuff like that. Luckily, he's a programmer. He can figure this all out. The coolest part is it's got the cards right in front of the drop targets. They're all little mini screens, and they change every hand. So this will be coming out on the next Stern game. Adjustable. No. If Stern tried to sell this, it would be $20,000, just the sheer amount of drop target mechs in this thing. I mean, as Raymond was saying somewhere, he was like, well, what do you have to do to make this a Stern Pro? And I was like, just replace every single drop target bank with stand-ups. Stand-ups, yeah. And then remove the MagnaSave and remove the lower flipper, and then you might have a Stern Premium. And what do you say? Crickets. I have, like, MagnaSave blockage syndrome or something. I keep forgetting to use it. Yeah, on Vic and Morty. On Vic and Morty, I forget to use it. on Zach's homebrew, I forget to use it. But like on my Black Knight, I never forget to use it. So I don't know what it is. I have some kind of bizarre... If it's not Black Knight, I forget to use it. Oh, I have an idea for your homebrew, Zach. If you forget to hit the magnet save and it hits the end switch, you have it laugh at you. Every time you drain it. The only problem with that is even if you forget the magnet save, you have a chance to save it because there's a flipper underneath Basically underneath where the apron would be. I know. But that would be great, wouldn't it? Just laughing at you. Ha, ha, ha, you suck. I want this in the co-op, and I want it in the tournament. You should. I would love that. That would be so great. So is that it for the Rochester trip? I don't think there was anything else. Has there ever been any? Oh, no, there was something else. There was something else in the Rochester trip. Oh, God. Okay, yes. I got your gift. Oh, I got my reach around. You got your reach around. I gave it to him. Yes. It's like I gave him the reach around. And we're talking about the award I won for the final round podcast. Don't get any ideas there. But I put it exactly where I said I would put it. You should take a picture of that. I did. I took a picture. Well, I sent it into our thread, but it's sitting on top of my toilet, just like I said it would. It's actually in the guest toilet area. Oh, so everyone gets to see it. So whenever there's a tournament, people will see the reach around. It might be missing one of these days. You might lose your reach. Oh, man. I'd be like, who stole my reach around? Who stole this award that has my name on it? No, they'll unpeel it off and put a new sticker on it. They'll scratch it out with marker. So, yeah, I got my reach around. Oh, and I installed the Cliffy Lane Guides on Attack from Bars, and all Flipper Hop is gone. Good. But I want to know one thing. Why is your balls bigger on your reach around than mine? Yeah, I was curious. Like, they're different models, right? Like... Yeah, there's three. Did you pay for yours? I did not. Oh. Well, yours was like a loser award, like you were the biggest loser. Mine was actually for my awesome voice, the ginger one. So I assume that's why my balls were bigger. Wow. That's pretty cocky. Great choice of words. Very good. All right. I love the boys. Good job. Reach arounds, Marty and Jeff. Very good job. We love you. Thank you very much. From the final. From the Ginger Award winner, thank you. Yes, from the sharp reach around. I am second best. Second best. Maybe they're saying, you know, he has small balls. Maybe that's the deal. I don't know. Oh, man. What else do I got here? Oh, well, speaking of final round, Charlie Emery from The Owner of Spooky was on there. Dennis Stiles. Every time I hear Charlie, it's just like, he's the nicest guy on the planet. But somehow Bruce would probably get into an argument. I feel like even Bruce would have a challenge actually doing that if they met in person. Yeah, I would. He'd have to make him mad. We've already gotten him mad. He does listen to the show. He might have people who know him who listen to the show. Yeah. But I love the situation of, like, no people in pinball actually listen to podcasts. I know. But he did find out, and he had to credit, you know, he tried to teach us the right way to push a play field in. Oh, yes, yes. I remember that one. But that's old. That's a long time ago. But I was thinking I needed a character for him because I have all these characters. You know, I have Robert Mueller, of course, as Hulk Hogan, and Dave Fix, of course, as American Dream. So I'm thinking for Charlie Emery, I need someone who's just so pure and never gets mad. So from this day forward, Charlie Emery will be Bob Ross. He's making happy little pinball machines. Make happy little pinball machines here up in Benton, Wisconsin. Hi. We're in Benton, Wisconsin. You can make any kind of pinball machine you want in your world. We can make other people's jobs easier and make the world a better place making pinball. We can help the other manufacturers make playfields that don't suck, that just pool and ship. All they need to do is ask us. Or hire us. Or hire us. What do you think the next spooky game is going to be? Any ideas? It's going to be another fucking spooky fucking. Another spooky fucking. Does that mean it's going to be like Ghost Stacks? What does that mean? That would be better. Debbie does Dallas. I want to see on a pinball machine. No, I don't. No, no. So you're not a horror fan, Bruce? No, not at all. I'm sorry. That's always killer for me, too. Like, I like spooky games more than Bruce, but I'm also not a horror fan at all. Could they have maybe Beavis and Butthead in space so it could be sci-fi and then boom? That would be a thousand times better. What's sci-fi to do with it? Because he said... Rick and Morty. Well, no, he says now he's sci-fi slash horror, so he's trying to expand his genre a little bit. Yeah, Rick and Morty ain't horror. Sorry. No. It's comedy. I feel horrified by it, but it's different. Oh, I hate shooting that game, Rick and Morty. I'm sorry. It's terrible. It's just – It's terrible. I played a mode where all the lights went out, and I couldn't see a thing. I went in whatever, no, whatever dimension I went into. It was like the dark dimension. So guess what? It's the dimension of, what's his name from Stern, that does the flashers. It's the opposite of that. Oh, it's the Dwight dimension? It's like Dwight Sullivan. I mean, it literally, I couldn't see the ball and just drain. It's like, this isn't, you know, really? This is, come on. I was happy to get rid of that yesterday. It wasn't even funny. And you own it Yes I do So they went back to another half owner and I got my When I was at the co I played TNA It like yep still like TNA Still fun especially when you play the co Yeah, a co-op is the best place for a TNA, I feel like. Yes, that is where it shines. It's best, the most fun. They'll always be multiple people around. Yep. Everyone's invested because they actually want to see you get reactors because we're all on the same team, baby. Yeah, baby. And the music is still awesome. Flight show is great. Love it. Let's see. I got in here. Aliens are being shipped. No, stop. They are. There's unboxing videos of aliens. Who said they would never ship? No, no, no. I said. I said. Apologize. No, I did not say that. You're not putting the right words in my mouth. I don't put anything in your mouth, Bruce. Oh, my. I said that it would be hard for them to ship it because all the problems they've had. But they did douche people out of a lot of money making this game. Yeah, but they douched you because they proved you wrong. Doesn't bother me. I feel bad more for the people they douched with the money and lost deposits. Well, as I said, aliens are shipping. There are unboxing videos, so you can... I can buy a machine twice and only get one. Sorry. The only thing that's important here is that eventually Ron might actually play Working Alien. Yes, Ron, yeah. Unless when he drives out to play one out here, it breaks again, like the day he shows up or something. Yes, it will. That could happen. But there's supposed to be going to be two or three in Rochester, so, hey, you know, maybe one of the three will work. Mm-hmm. I'm excited. I'm excited to play some alien that works and that I can see everything. Well, they'll put it in the GI, so you probably can see things. That's the thing, because even at the Museum of Pinball in Banning, California, when I played it, it kind of worked, but it was like super dark, and it was in one of the areas that wasn't lit also, so I couldn't see anything. So what do you guys think of the videos? What videos? The unboxing video. I haven't watched them. They got all the light boards, and they're using all the no-board stuff. Yeah. And it looks very clean under the play field. It also looks like it's not really serviceable. Something went out on a board, you'd have to have the board replaced, which is the same as Stern. Yeah, but at least that's a modern pinball machine. That's how they are now, so. Yep. Yeah. I'm surprised that Stern doesn't, like, lighten their node boards out. Yeah, we were talking about, like, oh, everyone's using P-Rock, and oh, now Fathom's using Faf instead of P-Rock. Stern could just pull a bally, you know, in reverse and let other people use their node boards and get, like, complete supremacy. Use the spike system on your game, proven from the largest pinball manufacturer in the world. Yeah, we've got like 10 times more in production than ever. In production and people using it and, yeah. And we've probably done much better testing on them than anyone else, too. Well, isn't Spooky supposed to be selling, possibly give the options for other people to buy? Well, yeah, well, when they come out with their new system, which will be the new game, which people are saying, like, replacing P3. I thought from the interview I heard they were working on a new driver board. And I don't know, how does P3 work? How many different boards are involved? At least three. You've got to have a P3, like, main board, which actually has a CPU on it and stuff. And then you've got to have a P3 switch board, and you've got to have a P3 driver board. Yeah, because the Ben Heck interview, I believe he said, they were working on the driver board, if I recall. So he didn't say anything about the whole system. I don't know if you could, like... I don't know if you can change one piece without changing all the others. Yeah, I don't know how much the protocol is known, or, like, how smart... Well, nobody knows because they haven't released any schematics on it. Yeah. Hey! That's another crappy thing. I was like, I saw alien people release the schematics for their boards already. How weird is that? And if Spooky is coming out with their own board set, then maybe they'll release schematics because it's not P3 anymore. Yeah, but still, if you're selling something, it should be serviceable. It should be out on the Internet. Don't block it. Don't say, oh, I'm not going to give this to you, or it's just... What happens if it was available, but you had to pay for it, like Gottlieb? I wouldn't mind a small licensing thing, but don't give me no options to do anything. And it should come with the game if you're going to make them pay for copies of it. Yeah. Okay. Here's how I look at it. Like, I wouldn't mind paying for the manual like they do with JJP with the nice, thick, big manuals. Or like when you buy a car. You used to buy a car and you get the humongous shop manuals. You could buy them, but it came with everything that you needed to take apart the car or take apart anything. That I wouldn't mind. But don't not let me have the chance. Fail. Are there any manufacturers out there currently that haven't released schematics still besides P3? Rick and Morty has nothing up. Still. We're a game 550 or 600, and there's nothing for wiring. More than anything. What? They use P3. They use P3. I know. It's more than P3. They don't have, like, the power wiring. Yeah, power wiring, cabinet wiring, nothing. Nothing. Same way, too. And 600 games already, and you had 500 for Alice Cooper. That's unacceptable for me. Have you seen the Alice Cooper manual that they did release? Yeah, it's like 12 pages, I think, or 14 pages. and they copied the rule set off of the Till Forums community rule set and just stuck it in there. That's weird. They have a page for the rubber layout that doesn't include a picture of the layout of the game. It just lists the rubbers, and it's raw. Yeah. How bad is that? You're expanding your place and expanding your place and expanding your place. Why don't you hire somebody that actually makes an effing manual? Who was he? Head on for American Pinball? Dave. Yeah, like he was talking about all this stuff. He's not only doing all this documentation, and he's making all these videos and stuff. I'm like, every manufacturer needs a Dave. Yes, they do. Dave, that's honestly, when you go to American Pinball and you look at their website, the only thing they don't have manuals of is the P3. They have everything else. They have videos. Why the hell can't a company that makes more pinball machines probably than American Pinball, would you say that or not? Is there more American Pinball machines out there or Spooky? That's a good question. That's a good question. What would you say? I mean, Spooky's done. I would say 750 plus 500. Spooky's been around longer. I'll say Spooky. Yeah. Why can't you guys, you know, you keep on hiring all these people and expanding, expanding, make a little cutout in one of the rooms and start documenting stuff. Even, like, at Stern, Chaz died, sadly. And, like, their tech support quality went drop by half. Oh, my God. It's terrible now. And even he didn't know that much. Like, when I'm asking questions when I had a problem, at the time, he didn't know actually, you know, working with the boards either, you know, like. But he would find out and turn around. He knew the troubleshooting needs, like, because all you're going to do is replace the board anyway. Exactly. Like, he didn't even know the theory of how the lamp boards work as much as I'd like to. Even that, like, you had one tech guy who knew anything, like. Yeah. Devil to ask you here, maybe it's just not a priority because most people are not like you guys and doing all this work themselves. Yeah, but you are a small subset of the hobby. In these days, people actually work on their own machines. It's a smaller subset than it used to be. It's a different audience. This is not like 15 years ago where it was all on rec games pinball and anyone who owned their own games knew how to fix them. It's not like that anymore. Games don't break anymore, right? Yeah, never. They never break. They're all great. Games don't use custom boards either. Yeah, but do you demand schematics for your TV? You're going to fix that? I have fixed my TV. Yeah, maybe you, but you think most people are going to be like, where's my schematics? I need to take this TV apart and fix it, or I need to take this appliance apart. No. Wait a second. If I'm paying $10,000 for an item, it's not really considered a throwaway item. I'm paying $500 to $400 for a TV. Most of the people in this world will just throw the TV out and buy a new one. I can't do that with a $10,000 corporation. I was going to say, most people are not going to be fixing them themselves. But if you hire somebody to fix them, they can't do that. Yeah, exactly. People will be like, oh, I blew a node board on my CERN. I'm just saying, for the companies, it's obviously not a priority. Yeah, and we're critiquing that. That's the whole point. That's the problem. Yeah, but not enough people are critiquing it, obviously, because it still doesn't happen. Yeah, so you should critique it, too. Come on. Yeah. I'm the devil's advocate. I'm just playing the other side. Ron is the devil. You heard it here. Yes, I'm the devil. That's right. See what I had to do with Zach? See, this is why I bring Zach on, just for normalcy. What's the schematic? I just play with it until it works. Oh, God. Well, that sounds like a personal problem. Oh. It all goes down to, yeah, it does that. It always does. Yeah. So we don't know. It all goes down. You said it wrong. Wow. So we don't know what the next game is from Spooky. No, I have no clue. He said, Charlie said it was going to be more of a team design, which scares me. Yeah. Because when I think team design, I think of like Vector. That's what they did at Valley. Like, we'll do an all-encompassing team design, and that can suck. I'd rather he have just another Charlie design, to be honest, or just a single new designer. I want a new designer because Charlie cannot make playfields. Wrong. Upper playfields, baby. All his upper playfields rock. He should be upper playfield guy. Maybe he'll do the upper playfield of the new game and someone else will do the lower playfield. That'd be fine. Yeah, that'd be good. That'd be fine. Like Aswan said, community-designed playfields do not have a good history. They don't. They don't. And although Charlie does not make the best lower playfields, he's at least improving, I would say. No, he's not. Have you played Bob Zombie? Yeah, terrible. Yeah, now play off Cooper. It just has one too many shots, that's all. Exactly. That's the problem. Yeah, but that's, you know, the upper play field is incredible. I love the upper play field. I think it's one of the best upper playfields ever. Well, it's terrible. Are you kidding? There's so many shots from one flipper up there. It's insane. No, I'm saying the lower play field, I said, is terrible. It's not terrible. It's just there's one too many shots. And it's too tight. It's too tight. You just remove one shot. You can't get up that play field to enjoy it. There. We will agree to disagree. There you go. There you go. But one thing we do know that he gave out a secret on. Well, it's not a secret then. Well, there's going to be habit trails. because they have a new guy making habit trails. Yeah, he kind of, yeah. He said, we have a guy making habit trails. Oh, and since there's no habit trails on our last game, I kind of gave away that our new game has habit trails. Oh, well. Exclusive. Exclusive. The spiral thing on Alice Cooper is cool. That is cool. They make some nice habit trails. All right, more game stuff here. Stern's upcoming game. Everyone's saying it's Mandalorian. Do we think it's Mandalorian? No. I'm going to vote no just because it would be super funny. Yeah. They're all saying Mandalorian, Brian Eddy, and then after that in the summer it's going to be Godzilla, Keith Elwin. That's universal rumor. Well, the interesting thing, I was thinking, because Mandalorian had Gina Carano. It was canceled by Disney. Yeah. So if she had to be removed from the game, I would think that would delay it. However, they just had what, Pinball FX came out with a Mandalorian pin, and she's in it. which was interesting. Yeah. You're surprised they got past licensing. Or they just said, screw it, we don't care. It's such a small initiative. Which is weird because she's a main character, and you would think just what happened, they'd want her removed. And we were just like, well, we got her off the show. Like, okay, that's fine. Put that behind us. Move on. Yeah. That's the way it should be if you're going to do it that way. Imagine Stern calls her up like, hey, could you do call outs? Oh, wait. Oh, we can't have you. Well, yeah. Well, actually, maybe now they could get her before they would have to have gotten a sound-alike because they'd have no access. Now that she's not on the show, maybe they would have access. We got our own sound-alike, Stern says, and it's actually her. No, it's a really good sound-alike. Very good. So, yeah, and the rumors are because it's, you know, Star Wars, it's going to be May 4th. You know, May the 4th be with you. So by the time this airs, Mandalorian may already be out. It'll look really stupid or not. Yeah. Or it won't be out, et cetera. I don't know. Mandalorian is okay. I'm not as completely into it as a lot of people are. I don't know if it's going to be a great theme. I think it's just the Star Wars stuff has sucked so bad lately that when you gave us something that didn't suck that bad, it was like, oh, my God, thank God. If Jon Favreau is involved with, like, you know, inputs, then I might enjoy it somewhat. But if it's like Star Wars, the pin, you know, from Stern, no, I won't enjoy it at all. Oh, you mean one of their best games? No, it's not. Yes, it is. No, it's not. Zach, defend me. Come on. I never played it. Oh, you should talk about the pin. He said Star Wars, the pin, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, the pin is good, too. I like the pin. Both suck. Both suck. There, now defend me. Wrong. See, there you go. There you go. See? You're outvoted. Checked. Yeah. Want to get quizzical? Let's get quizzical. Quiz time. Zach has been telling me that he's come up with this trivia game for us. Super awesome. This trivia game. But it can only be two people, so we've had to wait until we didn't have a guest. Bruce is way too good at scheduling guests. Yeah, so we had to. So this has been delayed for months now. But now I'm ready. Can we say that we're all closing our browsers so we can't look anything up? I can't close my browser. If I close my browser, then, you know, I'm going to be out. Then what? You're going to drop the Skype call? Knowing me, yes. Are you kidding? I'm trying to be fair. Okay, minimize it at least. It's closed. All right. You didn't say about phones, so I have my phone on. Oh, yeah. I have IBDB.org on my phone. Your phone passed up. Actually, search this. So then congratulations. All right. Um, okay. So, we, like, have to call in, like, uh, I have to say, like, a keyword? No, it'll be turn-based, pretty much. Okay. So, who did, how do you determine who goes first? We got a random button list. One of you wants to volunteer not to. Oh. I will volunteer not to go first. Oh. So, how's this going to work? I'm going to give you some category to name games in. And then you're going to name one, then the person's going to name one, you know, back and forth until someone can't. You get one point for each game you name. If you say the name and then you say final answer, you gamble all the points for the current game you've gotten so far to go double or nothing. If you're correct, that is the last game in the category. Oh, wow. So, or I think my opponent doesn't know anymore. I can also say final answer. Yeah, true. But if you lose everything, I got you. And say if he can't, like, answer anymore, like, say Ron's like, I don't know anymore, and I keep on going with more names, I get more points? Oh, yeah, as long as you can keep naming games, you keep on getting points. Gotcha. Only after the person gives up. Yes. And if I say something and then you can prove me wrong, you get three points. Ooh, I like that even better. That's fucking rock. Okay. Okay, so does anyone want to not go first? I said that I will not go first. Okay, you'll have to go first. And then game-wise, we're going to say games with three-inch flippers that are made by the main manufacturers. So it's going to be Bally Williams, Gottlieb, Stern, Daddy's, Sega, or any of the modern people in the 2000s plus. So no European, no 60s two-inch flipper EMs. All right. So America. America. Oh, yeah. And America Park. That's right. No one-off prototypes that have at least five games made. All right. Okay. Ready? Mm-hmm. Yep. So, Ron, name a game with flippers. Star Wars. How many flippers does it have? Which one? Which one did you name? Stern Star Wars. Okay, how many flippers does it have? Two. All right, Bruce, name a game with more than two flippers. Star Trek. Stern. How many flippers? Three. Okay. Okay. Ron? Yes? Name a game with more than three flippers. F14 Tomcat, four. Okay. Bruce? Simpson's Pinball Party, because I know you're going with this. Stern, five. Okay. Ron? More than five flippers. Just more than five. Yep. Haunted House, eight. Okay. Bruce, can you name a game with more than eight flippers? No. Ron? That was pretty strategic of him, wasn't it? Yes, it was. But he didn't say final answer, so that would have been... Yeah, that would have been really good. Did you name that game with one and eight flippers, Ron? Do I get, like, a free guess, or do I lose shit if I'm wrong? No, you'll just... If you're wrong, that category will end. Okay, Humpty Dumpty. Yes. And it's also two and flippers. Oh, yeah. Never mind. That's why I did not even guess earlier. Yeah, I can't think of anything more than eight. Okay, so Ron wins that category, three to two. Now he's going to say games with lots of flippers that are not Gottliebs. Bruce can start because he lost the last one. Games that are lots of flippers. No, no Gottliebs allowed. Oh, no Gottliebs allowed. Can he say stuff he already said? Yeah, sure. Okay, Dragonfist, Stern. He has two, Ron, more than two. Oh, so no Gottliebs. Okay. Roller Games, three. Okay. Bruce? Game of Thrones, Stern, four. Premium. Yes. Ron? Simpsons Pinball Party, five. Okay. Bruce? Final answer, Elektra, six. Ron, do you have a counter to that? Uh. Uh. Yeah. He needs seven, so. Yeah, you just start thinking of multiple layers, because it's the only way you'd have that many flippers. Non-Godlieb. Yeah. You got me on that. I can't think of anything. Yeah. I don't know of any either. I didn't even realize Electra had six until I looked at it. So Bruce wins double or nothing there. That is six points total for Bruce. Damn you, Claude Fernandez. It's true. Another reason to hate him, right? I don't hate poor Claude. You were surprised at my answer, weren't you there? Sure. Name a game with five flippers. Simpsons Pinball Party. Bruce, name an earlier game with five flippers. Oh, God. Well, Electra. Well, six. You get a five or four. Exactly five. Exactly five. Wow. including Gottlieb again. Okay. I don't know if there's another one. Five. There's at least a few more. How many Clippers does Jeannie have? Five or six? Six. It's five. Isn't it? Jeannie has five. Isn't that kind of helping the opponent there? No, he asked me how many. He didn't say. I was saying, I have to state how many there are, and it was five. Jeannie, five. All right, Ron. Can you think of a game earlier than Genie with five flippers? Ron's going to be doing a lot of editing. No. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Thinking of older wide bodies. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na. Ten. Five seconds. Don't know. All right. Was there any? That's newest I knew. The oldest I know, too, so. Yeah, I was thinking, like, I'm trying to think. There's three flippers. Yeah, there is three flippers on the bottom and just two on top. Yes. I was like, there's five. Okay, Ron, your turn. Name a game with five flippers. Sniff-sniff spin ball party. Name a newer game with five flippers, Bruce. Boy, I don't know if there isn't. There's at least one more. What's it called? Alice Cooper. Five. That is wrong. Oh. That's three. Yeah. Minus one point for Bruce. What was it? Well, mine has a chance to name more if he wants to. Oh, Wizard of Oz. Correct. Is that your last one, or do you want to go for more? Do I lose points? If you say one that doesn't have five flippers, then yeah, you lose points. But I just got a point, so if I get one that's wrong, then I lose that point. Yep. If you can't think of any, then you won't lose points. Yeah, I can't think of any. If you say wrong one and give up, that's okay. Yeah, well, let me think here. One, two, three, four, five. I'll say Pirates, Jersey Jack Pirates. That doesn't have five flippers. Yes. Okay, do you want to go farther? No, no, I'm good. Okay. Can we go with this fucking flipper thing? Yeah, that's the last flipper thing. That would give you a good idea of, like, how many pop bumpers I can see that I'm having. Oh, no. You know it's coming, don't you? You guessed, Bruce. Name a game with pop bumpers. Oh, shit. Stars, one. Okay, Ron, name a game with more pop bumpers. Flight 2002. Bruce, three more pop bumpers. This one's really hard. No game with pop bumpers. Balls, what's it called? Balls of Poppin' Gottlieb? That's not a Gottlieb. That's a Valley game. What's that name called? It doesn't have any pop-up. Ready? Ready? Shoot. What's it called? I know what you're talking about. You're going right for the killer one there. You can't think of the name, and you have five seconds. Four. Eight. Five. Ready? Three. And how many pop-up does it have, Bruce? Nine. No. Okay. It only has five. Five? Yeah. Yeah. I thought I had more than that. So can I name one with three or more? Yeah, you can go. Three. Roller Games. Got one of four. Firepower. Correct. Six. Five. I'll go six. Adam's Family. Wrong. Oh, shit. It is five. I'm thinking of Whirlwind. Yeah, Whirlwind has six. Five. Okay, both failed. I could have said Adam's Family with five. Then Whirlwind. I would have killed. Yeah. There is one of seven, too, if anyone wants to take a random guess. just for fun. Going nuts. That's what I thought Bruce was trying to think of. That's what I thought so too. Yeah, going nuts. Okay, now. See, Ron went last. Bruce, name a game with a ramp. Oh, no. Oh, here we go. This is hard. It is going to be hard. You know why? Are you just going to go for a game with like eight ramps and try that, Bruce. That's the second I was thinking of. Just to get one point. Avatar 1. Wait, what did you say? Avatar. 1. Avatar, okay. Name a game of more ramps, Ron. Iron Man 2. Bruce, name a game of three ramps. Whitewater 6. Okay, you're going to have to explain where the six ramps are on Whitewater. Okay. If you go to the, can you go to the plastic kit? If you actually go to, what's it called, the, where you buy the ramps, They show all six. Starship Fantasy. I'm going to guess what you mean. Yes, I am. I'm not allowed to go on the internet, so I can't. So you're claiming that that has six ramps. Six? I mean, it might have six pieces, but I don't know if they're all... They might have... They're all ramps. There is an item that says, Whitewater, seven ramps set. Seven ramps set. Oh, so you're wrong. Seven ramps. I would also say that not all of these are, like, actually ramps. Some of these are just, like, the lower part of a ramp. Yeah. So I was thinking six ramps. I think it's six ramps. One, two. Go to IPDB and see how many ramps it says. It should say there. This is complicated. Yeah, it is. Because you have so many different games. Multiple ramps, quote, unquote. Ah! Twice. Okay, Sanity Falls. Yep, one. What's it called? The one. The one that goes to the other play field. That's two. That's not a ramp. Well, the side one is. The left ramp. Yeah, left ramp's the ramp. There's a left ramp on the lower playfield. There's a Sandy Falls in the upper playfield. That's two. The one that goes around to the whirlpool is three. Okay. That's the second one upper playfield. The third one, the other one, wraps. I'm not looking at a picture, so I'm not allowed to go on IPTV and look. That's why you're on your phone, looking. No, I'm not. What else is there? There's more ramps than the three, of course. I think there's a lot of plastic, but the actual, what you consider a ramp, i.e. going up, I can't think of anything else. No, there's another spare. There's four, at least. Either way, he's nowhere close to six, so lose, lost, done. Well, I've got to say, at this point, you're out of time on that. Yeah, you're out of time. Okay. We say, Ron, name a game with three or more ramps. Three or more. Demolition Man, three. Is that? Yeah. Okay, name a game with four more ramps. Jurassic Park. True, yeah. Yeah, I was looking at it the other day. It's like there's four ramps on this thing. There's four places where the ball goes up. Five, though? I can't think. I can't think. I'm thinking like wide body, super pins, but I can't. I don't know if my count's right, and I don't want to lose a point. Yeah, I don't have any either. How many does Dread have? Four Yeah Whitewater also has Disaster Drop for a fourth The one on the right of the lock shot I think that's what Bruce was trying to think of Alright Bruce Name a game with one ramp Avatar Ron Name a game with one ramp Uh Sorcerer Back to me Yep Xenon Yep Ron Lethal Weapon 3 Yep Bruce. Star Wars. Data East. Oh, yeah. Yep. Ron. Robo War. Yeah. Bruce. Robo Cop. Yeah. Ron. Firepower 2. Bruce. Oh, what else? What's it? Hollywood Heat. Isn't there one there? Jump Ramps. Yeah, there is. No, Hollywood Heat has two. That's right. The main ramp on the right and the jump ramp on the left Oh shit I didn even think about that Are you going to walk away with this one now You can try Yeah it a name more Volcano? I don't know if that would count as a rap or not. It's got the skee-ball thing. It's like a jump. I don't know. What does IPDB call it as? Typical, I would give the problem answers. Damn it, Ron. Why can't you just name the easy games. Because I can't think of them. Four-hole skee-ball is what IPDB calls it. Nah. Not a ramp. I'm sorry. Bruce, name a game with a motorized target bank. Motorized target bank. Description, please. It's a bank of two or more targets, and it goes up or down on a motor. Two or more? It can't be one? I don't think singles exist. Yes, they do. And also, it wouldn't really be a bank if it's one. Oh, so Jurassic Park doesn't count is what you're saying. Doesn't Jurassic Park have two? It's one. It's a long single target. Yeah. That's why I asked for a description. I would have counted that, but since we use it as a descriptor thing, we won't count that one. Yeah, because I was trying to think of a descriptor also. That's why I was. WHO dunnit? Oh, yeah. Ron? You got the power, Black Day 2000. Bruce? Back to Mars. Ron? Spider-Man. Roost. Avatar. Ron. Mousing around. Roost. I'm trying to think. Hold on. You said Spider-Man, I remember. Keep it. I have one, I'm sure. Drawing a blank here. Very easy one. Ten seconds. Seven. 6 5 4 3 Now you have to stop 60 seconds like a pinball machine. 2 1 No, it's a good thing that ended there because I can't think of any. Okay, no pinbot or anything. Oh, shit. I'm more than thinking of that. Or jackpot. I have three banks stuck in my head. You're just flipping out five banks. I can't think of that. Okay. A game with an earnable playthrough multiplier not linked to multiball before the year 2000. Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. That's such a Zach question. I didn't know. Okay. That last one's too easy for you guys. We need to wrap this up here. Who's first? Who's on that? I was last. Ron's last show, Bruce starts. Oh, here you go with my dad. Okay. Without multiball, right? You're saying? it's not like not like you know two balls two X scoring or something like that but double scoring it's gotta be something else something you can earn independent of just having two balls in play honestly I don't even know I'm not even thinking of one of those lines I don't even know what the example would be Ron uh Jungle Lord yep one um that's a terrible fucking question it's like no no no You don't know the fucking piece of that. Nine. No. Eight. So you said no. No. Cheat off. I'll have to believe you on that one. Because I don't know. That's why I figured you wouldn't know. So you have to prove me wrong. Yeah, I have no way of knowing. That's why that's terrible because you don't know every game. Yes. The host doesn't know the answer. Yes. Point, baby. All right. Next category. Yeah, let's get off that stupid chatter. Bruce, a game with an alphanumeric display. Game with an alphanumeric display. Who's first? Bruce. Oh, it's called TX Hector. Okay. Ron, name an earlier game with an alphanumeric display. Wow. High Speed. Okay. That is what year? 85. 86. 85, 86, yeah. You said none that were less made than five, right, you said? You have to have at least five production units. Can you name a game before? Yes, I can. Final answer, 8-Ball Deluxe with the special Gottlieb-style displays. They made nine of them. Oh, that's a prototype. That's a prototype. That's why I asked that ruling. That's a prototype. Boo. More than five. I didn't say prototype. You didn't say prototype. He said more than five, and they made nine. That's true. That's fucking lame. I didn't answer it also. Yeah, yeah. There's nothing before that. No. No. Not an American manufacturer. Nope. There is an actual production game that's before. Yes, there was. An earlier one. An earlier one, but not that early. No. So I can't get it right. Yeah, I didn't even think of that one. No. Only Bruce would think. The first, like, real production one, FYI, was Chicago Cubs triple play. What year? I don't keep track. 84, 85. Are you sure? I thought Aftor was before it. That is not one of our manufacturers. Oh, God. They made production. They didn't make production, so I would actually consider the U.S. production. Yeah, yeah. They're not the same plan or Capcom either. Okay, okay. Oh, no, Capcom? Wow. Just F you, Capcom. I guess so. All right. Good one, Bruce. That was good. That was good. I remembered it from freaking, I was like, what can I go earlier? or final answer it. And one of those is at the Banning Museum of Pinball. Yeah, I love that game. That actually is beautiful. I wish they did do that. You know what it says? You know what they use the great alphanumeric displays to say? It just says play eight balls. Yes, that's terrible. Play this game or something. That game is beautiful with those blue displays. All right, Ron, going a bit newer. Name a game with a dot matrix display. Gilligan's Island. Bruce, name an earlier game with a dot matrix display. Well, it's not really a game, but it is a game. It has to be a pinball game. Okay, then I cannot answer it. It's impossible. Can I get more points? No, hold on, hold on. You just said you gave up. I didn't say I gave up. I said it's impossible, but it's not. Checkpoint. You suck. Yep. Final answer. Oh! That is the first one I know of. Yeah. Yep. I agree. Well, I have a question for you, asshole. I don't know what it is. Which one is the asshole? Both of you guys. Oh, so both of you. Color DMD display. Name it. Color DMD? Yes. From the factory. From the factory. Do you mean color as in a different color or actual multiple colors? Color DMD. Like RGB. Yep. Name it. I would have to guess Big Lebowski, but I'm sure there's one earlier since you're saying this. No, he's saying it's not a DMD, though. That's an LCD. It is a DMD. That's a DMD? It's got the dots. It doesn't have dots. Really? But it's an LCD. It's an LCD. It's an LCD. I know that's not the answer you're going for. No, I know you're wrong. Zach, Ron? Whatever was the first term to not have the high-voltage board in the head? That's just red. That's not RGB. That's red. That's not a color. Well, that's why I asked you if it was color or... I said color DMD. Okay. How many times do I have to say it? I have no idea, Bruce. Okay. We're going to pause right here. I'm going to tell you guys the answer. You're going to laugh. And then I'm going to ask people to ask. We're going to tell the people at home. So pause it, Ron. Is it America's Most Haunted? No, it is not. Oh. Yeah, it is. You got us there. And now I'm going to ask everyone at home. Tell me what you think, because I stump both of these guys. Bitches. Send your answers into slamtillpodcast.gmail.com, although you won't win anything. Chris, what answers will get... Oh, okay, wait a minute. You're going to win something? Hold on. You're going to get glory from us. And you'll get a free entry to the co-op on Bruce. Okay, so for you local people to Rochester, because the only ones who would care. No, because we're going to have some out-of-towners come in, too. Slamtillpodcast.gmail.com. Email your answer to Bruce's question, which is... If you're not local and you can't make it to the co-op, I'll find something to send you. All right. So what was the question again, Bruce? First color DMD. Name it. And I was right. These two, they admitted that I was right. Admitted. I can't admit you're right, Bruce, because I don't know. I'm just taking your word for it. I can't argue with it. All right. What's the score, by the way? How are we doing? I have no idea. What do you mean you have no idea? You're supposed to keep a track of the score. Bruce has 19, and Ron has 25. All right. I like that. That's the only reason why he wanted to know. He wanted to hear his name. It's just for the listener. For the listener, we should be updating per round what the scores are. No, I was going to reveal at the end with no. Oh, okay. Anything. But since you asked. Okay. Ah. You have to ask every time, Ron, so you can actually update it every round. How many more questions do we have? Oh, a lot. Jesus. Fucking Christ. I can see another being cut out. God. We've only got 10, 15 minutes, so that's what I'm going to say right there. How's that? Come on, go. All right. Data East Games that ripped off the Addams Family mode system. Jesus fucking Christ. Who's first? Not that many, I'm surprised. Well, Bruce just stumped us there, so you can go first. Uh, Tommy. Yep. Tails from the crew. Ron. Oh, the one with the crane. Last action hero. Bruce. WWF. Yep. Ron. Really? WWF has that? Yes, it has. Each character is in mode. That's not the name of the game, though. I call it pal. It's really what it's called now. No, it's not. No, it's not. Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. It's a Royal Rumble. Say it right. All right. I don't know. Now, I have a question to ask. Was it set already, Jurassic Park? Nope. Jurassic Park. That is the last one. I couldn't think of the last one. I knew it was there because it was the first one after Adam's Family. It's basically all those Data East from that one or two-year period. Yep. Good job, Data East. Ron's favorite Games with MagnaSafe. Go. Ron? Wait, I went first last time, didn't I? But I was the last. Yeah. Oh, okay. Black Knight. Oops. Black Knight 2000. Ron? Black Knight Sword of Rage. Bruce? Oh, man. Jungle Lord. Ron? Solar Fire. I know he likes this one too he doesn't like it but he likes it Pharaoh, he does like Pharaoh he doesn't like it but he likes it no I don't Grand Lizard Bruce so you can't say Rick and Morty obviously because you don't like Rick and Morty well no because it's not one of the manufacturers I said any manufacturer in this century no you said we couldn't You wouldn't take the Wico one before. That wasn't this century. That was last century. Oh, God. There's too many manufacturers about it listing them all, but any modern game counts. Wow. I don't understand that rule either, but okay, we'll go with that. I need to save. Other than that, what else is there? You know, I don't want to help you, but technically I just said it. When it wasn't my turn, you could just say it. Since he says it, it will be accepted. I didn't hear what you said. No, I'm going to scratch that one since we had this question, basically. Okay. Rick and Morty. Well, he doesn't like it, so he said... That doesn't matter what I like. No, he said games that Ron likes... No, he'll like this one because he's talking about how he always misses Magnus' faves. Yes, he was making fun of me. He was insulting me. That wasn't meant to be actually the category. No, I thought it was... No. It's funny, though, because the eight games you've listed, you went in the exact order. I wrote them down on my sheet. Wow. Like, even going out of order on Solar Fire and Pharaoh. Like, we called them the exact same list. Wow, okay. But there's still more. I really don't know much more. Ten. Nine. Nine. Eight. Eight. Seven. Six. Five. Four. Round's going like he knows one. Two. He does. First he's the old kiddie. Done. Okay. Now, my question is, does it have to be called MagnaSafe, versus just a magnet saving the ball? Magnet saving the ball. Okay. Golden eye. That's not controllable, though. That's why I'm asking you more specifically. I honestly don't consider that a magnet save because you're not controlling it, and that's what we're talking about. That's why I said magnet saving a ball. That's why it's not a – No, I'll give it to him. Wow, good. I don't like it, but I'll give it to him. If you're going to give it to me, then you have to give me Alice Cooper. because it's the same exact thing. And then I'll take World Cup Stalker. That is actually definitely one. That's actually one. I would say that, yes. But the other two, I don't agree with. And that's all I got. Can Bruce think of any more with that expanded definition? No, because he took one of the ones I want to pick. I took the two that used the same gimmick. Exactly, yeah. Oh, Jesus. The one that originally used it and then the one that stole it, even though they said they didn't realize the other one did that. Oh, so you're saying Magnaball, Magna Save doesn't save it? Gardens of the Galaxy. It actually stops the ball and moves it also. It doesn't save it. It's not a save. It doesn't save it. It's called on this play field, Magna Save. No, it isn't. Where? It does save. No, it doesn't. It says, like, Ball Save or something like that. No, it doesn't. Where? There's, like, a magnet at the center of the play field. I think it's Magniforce or something. Yeah, Magniforce. Magniforce, yeah. No, if you're going to use that, then Adam's family has Magna Save. No, it's not, because it's actually stopping the ball in the middle of the play field. It doesn't stop the ball in the play field. If you're going by stupid stopping the ball. No, I'm going by, I've said, a magnet that saves the ball. Well, it does save the ball. It doesn't save the ball. No, no, no. I will let the host decide. Yeah, that's not saving. That drains me more than it saves me. It doesn't drain you more than it saves you. It stops the ball and puts it right in the freaking flipper. No, it just sort of tweaks it and just throws it to my outline all the time on Guardians. Not the ones we have. This next question will be name games with a flail. Yeah, I know. And whoever first wins. No, it'll be, Bruce, name a game with a spinner. Oh. Stars, one. That's wrong. There's two. There's two? Oh. I'm so burnt out. Oh, he's upset. Oh, man. The rules are not all laid out either here, but I've got to get going soon anyway. I told you, I got 15 minutes. Can we skip to Final Jeopardy? You can save the questions for next time. What would Final Jeopardy be? I don't know. I can tell you. I've got a really easy small one for you. Okay, this is the definitive end here. Games designed by Harry Williams that don't have inlanes. What? Who's first on that one? Bruce. No. Done. I don't know any. Because you're not counting Clue, which is one, because it's not a more than five production game. No, they made six of them. They did make six. I thought they made four. They've only proven I thought it was only four now. Oh, Q? I don't know. Yeah. Well, you said Q then. So there you go. There's one. If it is, I don't think it's five. IDB still says six. Cruz, take the victory because it goes to me now, and I have no clue. I didn't even remember Q. Nags. Does that have three-inch slippers? I don't know. Probably not. I'm just getting ahead of myself. I forgot about the three-inch rule. I lost. Man. Mancho is the other one. Oh, Jesus. Oh, there were two in total? Oh, my God. You guys complain about the trivia in our trivia show. I never complain about it because I've never been on it. What? What? I've never been on the trivia show. This is the trivia show. No, I'm talking about the other trivia show you guys do and you never invite me on. The one that Zach always wins? Yeah, that I, you know. That clearly you would win if you were there. Jesus Christ. Okay, do you want a real softball-ass one? Yes, we'll do a softball-ass one. Yeah, softball. Make us feel good. Ultra wide bodies. Okay, define ultra wide bodies. Is it wider than a normal body? Is that what you're saying? It's, like, not counting, like, super pins or sterns that are, like, 24 inches. It's got to be, like, 28, 29, you know, the super wide ones. Okay, I'm first. Yeah, go ahead. Stellar Wars. Bruce. Ocarina. Yeah. Ron. Genie. Circus. Wow, he went right for it. He did. I just fucking raped him for a goal. I'll go with you. Star Race. Wow. Bruce? Hot dogging. I think into the valleys now. Okay. Ron? Roller disco. Yeah. Bruce? Very impressive. Embron. Yep. Ron? Paragon. Yep. Bruce? What else? Hold on. I'm trying to think. I'm freaking brain farting here. And so if you can't do stern, that knocks me out a little bit. What's the fourth and fifth one? Jesus Christ. I'm freaking brain farting. Gee, valley man. Not thinking of the valley vibe. I'm not. I'm not. Including ones he probably owned. He's definitely owned all of them. Rage quit coming in five, four, three, two. You've only gotten to like half of them, too. No, exactly. There's three to five I've done. That's the thing that's really pissing me off. You know, I can't wait to work out in the future. I wonder what that's going to be like. Yeah, I know. Use your spa. Thank you. Thank you. I couldn't fucking remember it. Space Invaders. There you go. That's the last one. I never owned that one, so actually that's why. That's the only one you haven't owned is you found it to me. So I helped it because I got through all the valleys now. It's up to you. Yeah, it's back to me and the crap. Oh, what's the third one from Williams? There's four. I know. There's six. Six. Oh, my God. I missed one. I could have. Williams made the most ultra-wide bodies. I never knew that. All right. Contact. God, who remembers that fucking game? I did. Oh, there's the bowling one. Bowling one? Bowling one. Well, it was originally going to be a bowling game, but they repurposed it. It actually has the ten rollovers in the middle, just like Memory Lane does, but then they re- The one I've owned, you know? Oh, that one. Shit. Scorpion. Oh, Scorpion. I've owned that one, too, but that's not the bowling one. I know. I know. I know what you're talking about. Try it. I got to try it. No, no. It's got the woman on the front. I know that narrows it down. It's at your dad's house, right? It was. It's sitting there. It wasn't even set up. Bruce? I don't know. You think of laser ball. Yes. Damn it. Yeah, that's the one that was supposed to be a bowling theme originally. And there's still one more you didn't name, too. That's Williams. Wow. Ron's favorite wide body. Huh? I thought I named Time Warp. Or not Time Warp. Oh, Stellar Wars. I already named Stellar Wars. That was sarcasm, by the way. Oh. It's Bruce's favorite Wi-Fi that you hate. Oh, God. Algar. Yeah. Fucking pervert. Would you have taken Superman or any Atari I named? We didn't name Atari as one of the major manufacturers. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. So, the final tally is... Oh, there's one more we missed. Oh, we missed? Missed one. Really bad one. Okay. Hercules. Oh, Jesus. That's not made by the main manufacturer. I know. I'm saying... And it doesn't count. It's not glass. It's plexiglass. That doesn't... It's still ultra-wide, but he said it has plexiglass. Ah. You know how wide it is? Uh, really fucking wide. Four feet? Your guess, Ron? Four feet, one inch. 39 and three-eighths. Damn it. Interesting. I thought it was just a full- I should have said a dollar again. Dollar. All right, so what's the final tally for trivia? The final tally, Ron has 43. Bruce has 37. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Woo-hoo! I thought Bruce had it for a while early on. He kept getting the doubles correct. Until the selections got worse and worse. Yes. Once we got out of the kindergarten zone of difficulty into the real questions. Until the rules became unclear. Yes, that's the problem. I know that's Bruce and Kinang has had on that. I never anticipate someone arguing over what a MagnaSave is when I listed that question. Well, you know why? Right, because that's also a copyrighted or trademarked Williams term. So I'm thinking, like, does it have to be called MagnaSave? Is it just a magnet that saves the ball? Does it have to be player controlled? Yeah, I'm sure it's a magnet activated by a cabinet. Yeah, see, if you said that, then you would have been fine. But, see, you've learned something. We're helping you, Zach. We're helping you be clearer. Yes. Yes. And we could be just total dicks and bring up, like, well, what do you mean by that for everything? Yeah, you could. Because we suck. Yeah. That's why our listeners love us. And this has been episode 166 of the Slam Tilt Podcast. We can be reached at our email address, slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. Check out our website, slamtiltpodcast.com. Or should I say www.slamtiltpodcast.com? Either works. Upper right-hand corner is all our links. Check out our Twitch page. I stream Tuesday nights at 8. Yes, we've been watching. I've been watching from work. I have been streaming regularly. Last stream, I went through all the classic turns in a row. Too fast. And then the last game was on Meteor, where I freaking rolled it, almost double rolled it, which I've never done. All the rockets. Yeah. You're a rocket man. The funny thing is, I had two games in a row. One, I had like 800K, almost rolled it. and I had, actually I think it was Colin MacAlpine, former Pinberg winner, in chat, roll fail or something like that. And so the very next game I rolled it, and I'm there like, did someone say roll? Did someone say roll? And it just kept going, and it kept going. What was your final score? Oh, it was like 1.8. 1.8 what? Yeah, 1.8 billion. Because my high on my meteor is 1.899. Oh, I think it was a little less than that. It might have been like 8.3. Well, you can find out. If anyone cares, you can go to the Slam Tilt Podcast Twitch, twitch.tv slash slam tilt podcast, and you can look under the highlights, and you can see that particular game. Or the lowlights. Or you can see me rage tilt other stuff, too. It's fun. So thanks to everyone out there. Follow us on Rochester Pinball Collective. Rochester. Is that Facebook? So, yes, the Rochester Pinball Collective on Facebook. Look out for ROC Pinball on Twitch, coming soon to a stream near you. Fun with Bonus, hello. Top Row Pinball, check out their Twitch channel. He told us to plug him. I plug him all the time. We didn't forget the mail ball bag. We actually didn't have any this week. Wow. It was empty. We're going to have more next week because people are going to put that in for the first color DMV. The first color DMD where you can win a free entry into the Rochester Pinball Collective. Well, that's not the collective. The Rochester Pinball, what are you calling? The co-op. The co-op. The co-op is you guys. Like, I'm not in the collective. You guys are in the collective. You are a collective. You're in the Borg. You're the honorary spare member. I'm the honorary spare member. That's good. I've been assimilated. You're the pivot man. I'm the pivot man. Oh, another term that's used way too much. But, yeah, the pivot man. I've never heard that term before. You've never heard that? Oh, my gosh. It's used all the time. You have to change up something. You know, we have to pivot. It's like a common use. But that's pretty perfect. Listen to us, Stern. Listen to Zach Sharp, which Stern uses it in interviews a lot. You know, you have to pivot. Like COVID happened, so we had to pivot this. It's a very common business term. Pivot is not Pivot Man. No, I've never heard Pivot Man before, no. Look at the Pivot Man. Oh, I'm not a Pivot Man. Is it like a dirty term? Yes, it is. Oh, Jesus Christ. Typical. All right. Thanks, Bruce. Thanks, Bruce. I'm going to see the whole time while you're sending me the descriptions out going, no. Thank you. Hey, Bruce. Bruce. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Tim Collins. Oh my Oh my Oh my Oh my Oh, do you want to know the description of a pivot man? I don't know if I want to know the description. You don't want to know, but it's a guy. Does it involve dicks or something? How would I know that would involve dicks? Okay. Okay, how does it involve dick? You go from one to another. You're pivoting from one guy to another. and you guys are making a whole spin on it I had to mute okay Bruce it's time for you to go it's time for me to go goodnight