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TPN: Flip N Out Pinball Videocast - Stern Insider Connected Details, New Designer, & Dennis Debates

The Pinball Network·video·2h 8m·analyzed·Oct 8, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Flippin' Out roundtable discusses Insider Connected platform, TMNT achievements, and Mandalorian code updates.

Summary

Flippin' Out Pinball hosts a casual roundtable discussion covering Stern's new Insider Connected platform, achievements and XP mechanics for TMNT pinball, Mandalorian code updates, and pinball hardware modifications (toppers, shaker motors, flippers). Dwight Sullivan from Stern joins to discuss 77 achievements in TMNT and clarifies how XP is calculated for verified vs. unverified home play. Community debate touches on EM vs. modern pinball and speculation about future Insider Connected features.

Key Claims

  • Mandalorian pinball has overpowered wizard mode accessibility; players can reach it without completing modes, only starting them, making the game too easy.

    high confidence · Travis: 'To get to wizard mode, you don't even have to complete any of the modes. That's the thing. If you have to complete the modes, it's a lot more difficult. You just have to start the mode.' Describes getting 4 wizard modes in a row with extra balls on.

  • Mandalorian Premium upper playfield originally designed with a smaller flipper (2-inch), not the current full-size flipper; evidence is a hole in playfield not aligned with current flipper tip.

    high confidence · Travis: 'If you lift up that upper flipper, you see there's a hole in the play field, just like every other play field to line up your flippers. Where the hole in the upper play field is not at the tip of the flipper. It's way up. So it's pretty clear that I think the original plan was a small flipper up there.'

  • Dwight Sullivan (Stern) confirmed TMNT has 77 achievements on Insider Connected platform.

    high confidence · Joel: 'There are 77 achievements for Turtles.' Dwight confirms: 'Yeah, let's take a look at these.'

  • Insider Connected XP mechanic: unverified home play grants base points, verified location play grants bonus multiplier points (not reduction, but bonus).

    medium confidence · Dwight: 'I think it's math I have answers for you. So that's what I do. I just cut them in half... UC Cash pointed out... but that's not the easy way to do it.' Shows 4-12-20 point progression for achievements.

  • Avengers pinball wire form (large playfield structure) is fragile and frequently breaks at the base where ball feeds into inlay; repair requires disconnecting many playfield anchors.

    high confidence · Craig: 'My right wire form broke... it's connected in so many places, and it's like the Captain Marvel ramp, the Ant-Man, Vuck. So it really touches a lot of areas on the play field.' Travis: 'I had mine literally snapped on my 100th play... right at the base, I guess, wherever the ball feeds into the inlay.'

  • Insider Connected Stern Insider subscription pricing was $39 (possibly now $29.99) with swag historically including bandana, 3D stickers, and coin purse.

Notable Quotes

  • “Pinball really loses its fun when you just hit all the shots.”

    Joel @ ~14:30 — Commentary on Mandalorian's difficulty balance and how ease of execution diminishes challenge.

  • “It is the modern era Scared Stiff.”

    Travis @ ~15:00 — Comparison of Mandalorian to classic easy-to-shoot game; Travis and Dennis agree it's overpowered.

  • “You just can't change your username once you're in.”

    Joel @ ~32:00 — Critical Insider Connected platform limitation causing user account issues.

  • “The hole in the upper play field is not at the tip of the flipper. It's way up. So it's pretty clear that I think the original plan was a small flipper up there.”

    Travis @ ~19:45 — Evidence of design iteration/constraint on Mandalorian Premium—likely playfield change mid-development.

  • “I don't know if they're saying now that they're expecting people to pop in to this more often for their news.”

    Joel @ ~40:00 — Uncertainty about Stern's strategy for Insider Connected content frequency and news delivery role.

  • “There are 77 achievements for Turtles. That's sweet.”

    Dwight Sullivan @ ~54:00 — Indicates substantial achievement/engagement depth designed into TMNT for Insider Connected platform.

  • “I think it's just instead of feeling like you're taking away, you're giving more. I don't know. I like that decision.”

    Joel @ ~62:00 — Approval of XP bonus vs. penalty framing; psychological preference noted.

Entities

JoelpersonTravis MurraypersonCraigpersonDennis NordmanpersonDwight SullivanpersonZach SharpepersonStern PinballcompanyInsider Connected

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern Insider Connected platform includes achievement tracking tied to verified vs. unverified play, incentivizing location play; XP bonus system rewards verified play without penalizing home play.

    high · Dwight confirmed XP system gives bonus multiplier for verified location play rather than reducing home play points; TMNT has 77 achievements designed around this framework.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Mandalorian Premium upper flipper appears to be mid-development design change from smaller (2-inch) flipper to full-size flipper; playfield hole misalignment is evidence.

    high · Travis identified playfield hole not aligned with current flipper tip, indicating original design used smaller flipper per classic pinball design patterns.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Mandalorian wizard mode too easily accessible; players can reach it without completing modes, only starting them, making game trivially easy.

    high · Travis achieved 4 wizard modes in a row with extra balls on; Joel: 'Pinball really loses its fun when you just hit all the shots.'; Described as 'modern era Scared Stiff.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dwight Sullivan confirmed as Stern pinball designer/programmer actively involved in achievement design and XP mechanics; present during livestream for real-time clarification.

    high · Dwight participates in technical discussion, confirms achievement counts, explains XP calculation methodology.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Mandalorian recent code update increased hurry-up values significantly (50-120 million range) when multipliers active, addressing point economy balance.

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.385

0:00
Apparently, I said we're live last time, and that's what everybody commented on on YouTube. I'm alive. You're alive. Yeah.
0:08
Most people start the show. Yeah. Most people do a countdown timer, and screw that. It's 10 o'clock. We're going.
0:18
Yeah. Well, hello, everybody. If anybody watches this after the fact, welcome. I have no idea if this is going on YouTube or not.
0:26
We're going to wait for a few people to come in, but we'll do some quick introductions. I'm Joel. We got Travis, Craig, and Dennis. So real quick, we'll just go around the table here. What was the last pinball game you played, and how was it?
0:43
Craig, you want to go first? Go for it. Last pinball game I played? Yeah. Well, probably the one right behind me, which is the Avengers. Just played it tonight. I was actually, so I mentioned this a few times. a couple weeks ago my right wire form broke, and so the distributor this week called me to say it was in, so I'm just kind of getting my head around what's involved in repairing, and this thing is anchored down in so many places on the playfield. It's going to be a tricky little repair, I think. Have you done that one, Travis? Have you seen? It's connected in so many places, and it's like the Captain Marvel ramp, the Ant-Man, Vuck. So it really touches a lot of areas on the play field. It's probably the largest thing on that play field. You're talking about the wire form? Yeah, the wire form. Yeah, I had mine literally snapped on my 100th play.

medium confidence · Travis: 'It was $39 when I signed up a few months ago, and the swag was junkie.' Joel: '$29.99' mentioned earlier. Craig lists swag: 'Bandana, 3D stickers and a coin purse.'

  • Mandalorian new code update added hurry-up value increases to 50-120 million range when multipliers are active.

    medium confidence · Travis: 'Dwight did. So now it's, if you have the multipliers going, the hurry-ups can be 50 to 120 million, I think. Somewhere around there.'

  • Insider Connected app is promised but not yet available; currently website-only, with mobile experience suboptimal.

    high confidence · Joel: 'They said there's an app coming. So I hope because it's a pain to go through the website. I mean, first of all, promised.'

    • product
    Mandaloriangame
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
    Avengersgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Walking Deadgame
    Fliptroniccompany
    Kerry Hardyperson

    medium · Travis: 'Dwight did. So now it's, if you have the multipliers going, the hurry-ups can be 50 to 120 million, I think.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Avengers pinball wire form structure is fragile and breaks frequently at base anchor point; repair is complex requiring multiple playfield disconnections.

    high · Craig and Travis both report wire form breaks at same location on Avengers; Craig: 'It's connected in so many places... probably the largest thing on that play field.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Insider Connected app promised but not yet available; currently website-only with suboptimal mobile experience.

    high · Joel: 'They said there's an app coming. So I hope because it's a pain to go through the website.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Insider Connected platform has critical UX limitation: usernames are permanent and unchangeable after registration, causing account issues for mistyped emails.

    high · Joel describes case of user who mistyped email, grabbed desired username, but cannot verify account; now different user cannot use that username with correct email.

    • 1:43
    So yours broke just like Craig's? Yep. Like right at the base, I guess, wherever the ball feeds into the inlay. Yeah. Yep. That's exactly where mine broke. The buck, whenever it fired up, I just heard like a giant pop, and I didn't get anything of it. So, of course, I was ready for the ball to return. Then I noticed that the ball just kind of just hung up there. And, yeah. It did. And it took nearly a month to get that in. So I had to do like the Oklahoma thing and just take a little piece of tie and just tie it down to the play field. That's exactly what I did, twist tie. I got a bunch of twist ties. I don't even notice it anymore. That's the crazy thing. I'm like, at first I was like, those things are so freaking ugly, I don't even notice it anymore.
    2:24
    So it came in? You have the new piece, but you just haven't done it yet? Yes, but I haven't done it yet. I'm picking it up tomorrow. Got it. So, yeah, that'll be interesting. All right.
    2:36
    Dennis, what was the last game you played? Walking Dead. And you own that, yes? Yes. Yeah. All right. Has you got that topper installed yet? I temporarily installed it, but I did not mount it securely yet, and it was going to fall, so I took it off until I could. I think I'm going to do what we would call the Arkansas method. I'm going to use some zip ties to where the screws would normally mount in and use them as little, like, footies. That would be a good way to do it. The Arkansas method. Do you feel it's better or worse than the Oklahoma method?
    3:10
    Well, I'm not sure what the Oklahoma method would be. Well, Oklahoma is apparently a zip tie. Oh, is it? Well, then I guess they're the same method. Zip, tied, and spelled wrong, right?
    3:20
    Yes. GoPoo already, what a great name, by the way. GoPoo already, the new Topper King. Dennis is without, I don't think it's even an argument. Well, because I didn't pay anything for mine, so that's the secret. That's how royalty works. You win it or you're given it out of, did you, did the count as winning or you got it, like you were gifted it? It was, well, it was kind of a blend. So they were giving away a lot of prizes, as they often do during the pinball tournaments, and that topper fell off during the first round. I was playing the game, but not at the time. It was someone else who made it fall. And so they jokingly put it in as the prize pool. And so as we were advancing further and further through the rounds, I asked, when would I be getting my topper? And then apparently the bar owner, who doesn't own those games, checked with the owner and got clearance to open that up, give me the splitter for the power, give me the cords, and gave it to me. Boom. Topper. And that's how you got crowned the Topper King. Yes. Does this tank the topper economy? Ray Day's asking, can Dennis no longer use cost two toppers? I think I can still use the plea math, which is what that is. What you please have to pay, I can still use for calculations. royalty placed by different rules. But if the topper costs you zero dollars, then, I mean... Yes, I know, but obviously toppers come in at different prices. So currently we use the $1,000 Stern topper. It's like the gold standard. There are different currencies. For loonies, there are like $600 toppers, and then there are the $2,000 plus taller toppers that have gold foil that you can't touch. You see, so there's a whole scale. There is. Uh, speaking of toppers, Craig, why, I mean, I think you've bought every other mod for Avengers. Well, you can see there from my picture that I am basically on the ceiling as far as where the back glass is. So I got it. Whoops, I'm going the wrong way here. I got, I got like zero, zero clearance there for a topper. You're not going to pop out a drop panel, one drop panel for getting your topper to shove up there? That's right. Yeah. Into the ceiling. Got it. All right. Travis, do you own any toppers?
    5:44
    No. You don't do any mods. You even turn shaker motors off. Yes. Craig's got a shaker motor. I'm just not a topper fan. I don't have a shaker motor.
    5:58
    Dennis, are you a shaker motor fan? Yeah. About half my games have them. And I put them all in myself. So they were add-ons. Yeah, hoops, I'm assuming, doesn't have a shaker.
    6:14
    Hoops is a sound shaker. Oh, there you go. I'll tell you, having a shaker in TNA is pretty great. Every time it goes off when it hits that pop bumper. I don't, Travis turned them off. It's ridiculous. Walking dead was too powerful. I actually got a board, an electrical current board, to control how much voltage was going to that thing because it was shaking too much. Awesome. I turn mine off because they just don't do anything for me. All I feel is just my hands just vibrating. Shaking. It's crazy. Yeah. Because, Joel, what happens is that the shaker motor goes off when you hit the shot. Oh, so you're hitting so many shots, your game's just shaking the whole time. Got it. Yeah.
    6:55
    Hey, let's ask Raymond. I know you hit more shots than Travis. Do you enjoy shakers or no? Let's see what Ray Day says. Craig, you should buy the shaker for Avengers. I would prefer to. I've been, my, you know, my thought about the shakers is I'm worried as well that it'll be just too distracting. Ah, so good. I'd like to try one, you know, before I get it. That's great. All right. You really want to try one? I'll tell you what to do if you want to simulate this. Just go to your dryer or your washing machine, put your hands straight on it, right? And then, you know, that's like a shaker motor. No, it's not. When you hit a jackpot shot, you're telling me like a final blow. Sorry, Craig. It's so great. I'll yell out jackpot.
    7:38
    Craig, I don't even understand why you're like, you're treating it like you're test driving a car. These things are cheaper than toppers and they do more. They are. Just get one and if you hate it, just sell it. Just sell it, yeah. It's great. And you can even get the pinball life ones that are cheaper. In fact, I don't even know why you're talking about it. You're a big star, Craig. These people watching should give you a shaker. That's how it works. Send me your shakers, everybody. Send them in. So Ray Day said Shakers are neat but kind of loud. There you go. A sub. I know Travis's team sub. For sure. Yeah, he puts a sub on all of his games. Changes the game completely. It's nice to hear audio. Too loud. I don't do that. Who thinks you need too loud?
    8:23
    I'm team headphone jack. I play with headphones on because I care about my children that are asleep in the other room, Travis.
    8:30
    Well, you know what? children aren't paying the bills, Joel. Exactly. I want to. All right, so we'll finish the corner here. So, Travis, what's the last game that you played?
    8:41
    Mandalorian. Oh, we are going to have to talk about Mando. I know you are a big fan of this new code.
    8:49
    No. Okay, so I started challenging myself. This is going to sound terrible since we're live, but I'll just say it anyways. I wanted to see how many times I could get to the wizard mode in a row. And we did it four games in a row. The extra balls were on. So it's just too easy. Yeah, I have that same problem. Yeah. Pinball is so, it's just, man, pinball really loses its fun when you just hit all the shots. No, Joel, pinball is not easy. But Mandalorian is easy. It's a fan layout. The primary shots are right up the middle. to get to wizard mode, you don't even have to complete any of the modes. That's the thing. If you have to complete the modes, it's a lot more difficult. You just have to start the mode. Let's tell it like it is, Travis. It is the modern era Scared Stiff.
    9:39
    That's fair. That's actually a good take. There's Dennis. Look at that. That's what you brought me in. Yeah, Dennis only has good takes. We all know it. Dennis, you've played Mando, right? They have one in. Yeah. I don't remember your thoughts on it. I think it's a fun shooter. Yeah. Well, Travis, you were saying, though, with the new code, you basically could just spam up the middle all day, right, and score ridiculous points. Yeah. I mean, if you wanted to. I mean, you still got to get the multipliers going as well. But, yeah, at one point, because the hurry-ups, they added value onto it, or Dwight did. So now it's, if you have the multipliers going, the hurry-ups can be 50 to 120 million, I think.
    10:23
    Somewhere around there. Yeah. That's what I did at the last tournament I played in. When I was on Mando, I just shot up the middle. I had the highest score. Wow. Even in tournament mode, just boom, right up the middle the whole time. Right up the middle. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Fliptronic, Jordan and Becca, thank you so much for the raid. Hopefully anybody's coming in. Had a good time with that. Also, pro premium on Mando, though.
    10:46
    Mine was a premium that I was playing. Jordan, hello, panel I wasn't invited to. Oh, man. C&K, Wolfman, how are you guys doing? I've only played the pro. Travis, you have played the premium. I've played both. Do you have a hot take there on the upper play field?
    11:06
    I mean, I honestly don't think it's that difficult, personally, just because you can trap it at the very beginning. Even when it starts moving around, as long as you backhand the shots, you're pretty much safe. I mean, it is more difficult than the pro since the pro is just a mini play field. Okay. But I really think, because remember what you discovered, Joel, that it looked like a smaller flipper was supposed to be up there? I really do think that that would make that mini playfield more fun if it was there. Because with a big flipper, it's just wood chopping all day long. So I had Zach from Flippin' Out had let me borrow a Mando, and this was before most people had them. And so I actually FaceTimed Travis and Tom, and we were looking around the playfield. And sure enough, if you lift up that upper flipper, you see there's a hole in the play field, just like every other play field to line up your flippers. Where the hole in the upper play field is not at the tip of the flipper. It's way up. So it's pretty clear that I think the original plan was a small flipper up there. So, yeah, it is odd. What would a micro flipper have been? I don't know why they went away from it. I mean, who knows? Maybe that wasn't the plan, but it looked like originally that was in the works. I think that would have been a great thing, personally. Yeah, good point. Could you put a smaller flipper up there if you wanted to? I'm going to. Yeah. Are you doing a lightning flipper or are you going down to two-inch? Two-inch.
    12:28
    I'll try to. It might be too small, but I think it looked like a two-inch. Didn't it, Joel, to you? It was small. I mean, so two-inch is like the flipper in Simpsons Pinball Party, right? Like up in the upper play field? Yeah. Yep. Or the upper left flipper on Iron Maiden. or an EDM from like the 1950s. Yeah, or like EDMs up until the 70s, which Joel is making it sound like he's never encountered one. Well, Joel, I don't know. David Fix. I know. I've barely been in this hobby like three or four years. I pretty much only know Stern Modern Games. I didn't even know they made games. Well, that may be. I just thought maybe it was a requirement when you're streaming on the Flippin' Out channel that you can't mention anything pre-DMD. Yeah, I can only talk about pins that Zach currently sells. so yeah it could be a short conversation here. So yeah basically post DMD whether you'll throw in like a radical or something to try and act like you're of the people but yeah but it's gotta be if I'm gonna talk about a radical though it's gotta be the best radical primo it's gotta be mint it's gotta be a mint it's gotta be the best number one it's the greatest Dennis t-shirt hype I like pocket tees Yeah.
    13:44
    Zach's not going to give you a Creasel clone t-shirt. You're not going to get one of your own? No. You're not going to have one? I don't like to wear anything with me on it. A Creasel. You know Zach has underwear. He wears his face underwear. He probably changed his entire underwear collection to the underwear with himself.
    14:04
    When he mentioned that there was one buyer of his and Greg's, I was like, he was the one to pop open them. Zach. Probably sourcing since Iron Maiden was yellow plastic. Has there been another short flipper that is white in the last few games? I don't.
    14:20
    I don't. Simpson's upper flipper was, like, red, wasn't it? I don't know. We could research that, but, yeah. You're only allowed to talk about games that can be insider connected. Great. So 17 games. That's all we're talking about tonight.
    14:35
    All right. You need one pinball show, Dennis, dedicated to convincing us non-EM players. Yeah. So apparently you're selling EMs out, Dennis. In this debate. There we go. Okay. Well, for everybody that's here, thanks for being here. We have some great people on tonight. We got Craig. Craig went out and bought a new camera, guys, because I was just flooded with emails. And they were like, oh, that show you put on last week was so good. but my biggest complaint is Craig was pixelated. We need a clearer Craig.
    15:09
    Clearly, Travis's blur is out of effect, but Craig needed a better camera. So I applaud Craig for going out, taking the extra mile, and getting a new camera. So hopefully everybody can appreciate the extra pixels. Welcome to the 21st century, Craig. It's looking sharp. I saw it, and I was like, I had to take the shade off my lamp so it wasn't the worst-looking one here for a more light. poor little ancient logitech yeah and then we got we got dennis on here as well why not you know let's give it a go dennis nothing but good takes so um i don't know we had to balance out our garbage takes so we have dennis here to tell us the truth um so appreciate it i'm just a truth seeker all right um well yeah let's dive in uh topics by all means topics we can change at any moment. So if somebody has something they really want us to talk about, how are y'all doing videos, cameras, Ray? No, it's through Discord. I'm grabbing this stuff through Discord. Travis looks like he's giving a behind-the-scenes interview. Travis has, he's all about that, he's got that look. He's got a good, and we agree, left side is the only side Travis shows. You do not want to see that right side. Yeah. Yeah.
    16:23
    Anna Go, thank you for the sub. Appreciate that. Wow, I think I said that right. All right, Let's dive in. So topic number one, Insider Connected. Everybody's talking about that. So check out this fancy layout. Here we go. Boom, baby. Okay.
    16:35
    I don't know. I'm proud of that. Maybe I shouldn't be. And I – check this out. Yeah, you ready for this? This is – Travis taught me this. Ready? Boom. And F11. Oh, full screen. That's a game changer. Get it. Game changer here. Perfect. So Insider Connected, I hope everybody watching is signed up. Even if you're not going to own one, just go ahead and grab your username before somebody else takes it.
    16:59
    I don't know. I'm assuming. Yeah, from the millions of people that are going to swoop in, I'm really worried. I'm waiting to sign up. Yeah, signed up. I've not been to the site. This is the first time seeing it. Please sign up so I can start typing your name in the thing. I've, like, typed it in about 20 times. Well, the challenge is you can't change your username once you're in. So I think, like, Zach Mini, he is currently the Mini. he's also Zach Flippin Out he's probably something else I saw on the forum somebody said they accidentally mistyped their email so and you have to verify the email so he realized he signed up the wrong email but he grabbed the username he wanted but he could never verify it so now that he used the right email his username's taken by himself because he signed up wrong so I don't know I have no idea if other people have I mean, he's the sort of person that would go and put all the maximum Pinberg tickets in his shopping cart at once. Yeah, probably. Yeah, yeah. I got nine email accounts bought to get nine connected. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why Zach got more than one. All I can think of is my thought is Zach probably has one for his playing at home, and then he has his one verified one. You know? Travis, why don't you do that, huh? You know, I know you're just not planning on ever playing a game unless it's verified. No, I legit got locked out of my account today because apparently I didn't know my own password for a little while.
    18:26
    Did Monica remind you what it was? Did you throw out the post-it note you wrote it down on? Well, I got locked out, and I just waited a few hours, and then Stern let me back in it. It didn't make any sense because I changed my password because I knew I didn't know my password, and then it told me after I changed my password that, hey, this is the wrong password. So technology, what can you do? Proud of you. Zach probably has an account for all 15 kids and 11 dogs and one for the above ground pool. Somebody right now, sign up. Please have your middle name be Zach's Pool. That would be so great.
    19:02
    Zach's Pool. Dennis, you haven't signed up. You should absolutely have your username be Zach's Pool. I don't want my thing to be about Zach. I'm supposed to be good enough with him. I don't need more of that. I did like, though, that they're doing some constructioners. I assume that they have to expand the septic system with all the kids. But everyone was posting, and they're like, where's the above-ground pool? Where is it? They were all worried, like, the bulldozer took it out or something. No, it's there. It's not going anywhere. It's fine. This is fine. With all the kids, need a bigger septic system. Oh, boy.
    19:38
    Can Super Orbit be insider-connected? Maybe one day. I don't know cause. That's awesome. Orbit? I could, yes.
    19:47
    Scorbit would be more than happy, they might be more than happy to tell you when they do it. I don't know yet if they're going to up the shilling on that or not. We'll find out. Oh, boy. Well, here's mine. So if you don't know, my username is DrollBob, same as my username on Pinside. But, yeah, we'll look at this. So this is the home page. Right now it's just there's a website, and then if you're going to do this on your phone, you have to do the website on your phone. They said there's an app coming. So I hope because it's a pain to go through the website. I mean, first of all, promised. But it is a pain, especially when you're Travis and forget your password after about 10 minutes. So, yeah, if you can see here, my experience points is I'm climbing the charts with zero.
    20:30
    I don't know. We'll see. I'll be curious if they ever do global leaderboards or anything like that. I know JJP is, like, pushing for that, global leaderboards and everything like that.
    20:40
    Travis better be using his password manager. Yeah. Better get Nordman. Other people said that, Dennis? I don't know if you've got Nordman yet. No. It's free for anyone who wants it. Sounds good. The Silver Ball Knight could be represented once more in the House of Stern. The Silver Ball Knight. David Dennis got I'm a Dick, so he's got that one figured out.
    21:01
    So this is the homepage. So let's look through here. Yeah, so exclusives. I think they're pushing this. So obviously this is going to be all access means anybody can watch these.
    21:14
    And then they have these Stern Insiders. So these are the things that they're hiding from, I don't know, from the people that don't pay.
    21:23
    Isn't that the other way, I think? Oh, you're right. Yeah. So I can't see my all access. I can't see this all access. I want to see my Avengers. Oh, yeah. So none of these things because I don't pay. Whoops. I think that's more money, too. I could have swore I paid $29.99 last time. So you're an insider. Well, you know, the shipping container costs have taken a toll on the online subscription service. Yeah, yeah. I never got my swag for signing up either. Well, that's probably in a storage container waiting in the streets of your mall. Did any frogs get harmed in the making of this stream? No, but if you haven't seen that, that's Kerry Hardy. Kerry Hardy's last video was pretty great. So, yeah, this is interesting. So they're trying to bring that in. Obviously, I don't know who's in charge of this content, but I don't know. I don't know if they're saying now that they're expecting people to pop in to this more often for their news. I don't know. It was $39 when I signed up a few months ago, and the swag was junkie, so you're lucky. What was the swag? I think it was like a bandana.
    22:32
    The first year was a T-shirt. I think it was a bandana and like a koozie It sounds like such a downgrade Maybe a third year will be socks Do you think a bandana And a koozie is at the same level as a t-shirt? It's like they're just giving out Swag to make you look like a groupie For 80s punk rock Get your love of the hour Plastic cup Oh here we go Bandana 3D stickers and a coin purse. Have any of you ever carried a coin purse? Ever? No?
    23:11
    Coin purse? Is it a coin purse like the little rubber thing that you pinch and it literally holds coins? I had some as a kid, but I never used it. Coin purses are so in right now. Saul Hudson knows. It's a little rubber thing that you... Like a little oval thing and you squeeze it and it doesn't have a zipper or anything.
    23:35
    Coin purse. I got you, Travis. Geez. Coin purse. I hope it's not this. Yeah, like this guy. Yeah, it's like that type. Yeah. It's what Joel's meaning. But, you know, like a rusex is a coin purse. Look at that. Yeah.
    23:50
    It was a small zipper. It was from 1918 when those were all the rage. Don't you all remember rusex? It was rusex? How do you spell that?
    23:59
    The coin purse is that all the Australians bring over that are made from kangaroo scrotum. Oh. Hence the name, Roo-Sack.
    24:10
    Yeah, it's a real thing. Holy crap. I'm going to buy one from Amazon then. Roo-Sack. Wow. Okay. You've got to go authentic, though. That needs to be a pinball theme right there. A Roo-Sack pinball machine? It's coming. Yep. It could be.
    24:27
    All right. Bandana, it's Stern Pocket Square. Got it. Yeah. So next year, somebody said it's a Frisbee. It's the ultimate swag. I think that's pretty good. Rusek can hold two pinballs. Valid point. Okay. What would be the worst thing that Stern could give away for swag? I know I'm kind of getting off base, but I'm still stuck on this coin purse thing. Like, what's the worst possible thing that's realistic that they would give away year three? Stickers. They already gave away stickers. They were 3D this year, so next year they'll just be stickers. A patch that you could sew on your jean jacket.
    25:04
    Like a pin. like an actual clicky pin oh an ink pen clicky pin, a USB drive that's not big enough to transfer over the code, that would be pretty great one of those yellow Armstrong brands with Stern written on it yeah you mean Rusek isn't a hat? well that's embarrassing Ozok, where are you at? you're somewhere over there, right? yeah, 3D stickers were pretty bad a floppy disk would be pretty good I don't know what's really crappy swag I feel like I'm sorry but I'm thinking like a koozie I don't know a fridge magnet yeah okay a four piece puzzle temporary tattoos see that's what I was thinking that's like the next thing is a temporary tattoo or chewing gum It just says Stern Life or something like that. Separate tattoo with chewing gum. It's like danger tattoo with Stern under it. Just business cards. They could get branded chocolate.
    26:15
    Our old place I used to work, we did that one time. It took us four years to get rid of it. The branded chocolate? I bet it tasted great. Yeah, because it's like a generic chocolate bar, but you get your logo stamped on it.
    26:27
    Stern chocolate. Okay. All right. Oh, man. A Stern pin. I still think it'd just be an ink pen. Oh, Zachary's here. That's Dwight. Dwight, how you doing tonight? Dwight is in the house. Dwight, we'll just dive right into yours while you're here. So one of the things I want to look at, which is pretty cool, is games. And I thought we were going to click through this. So there's only six games that are showing right now, and these are the current achievements. So it made me happy to see that if I'm going to get one, I'm probably going to get one in either Deadpool or Turtles. But in my mind, I was thinking like, I don't know, maybe there'll be 20 or 30 achievements. Why not?
    27:06
    No, there are 77 achievements for Turtles. That's sweet. 77 achievements for Turtles, which is pretty cool. So Dwight, I'm assuming you had a part in all 77 of them.
    27:19
    So yeah, let's take a look at these. I have none of them, obviously. But a lot of these make sense. some of these are the names of the modes so like window shopping, window shopping is one of the modes so if you start this mode boom, four points now the question is, if I start at home am I getting two points because it's unverified because I'm only getting half, right?
    27:42
    isn't that how that works? that's what I was kind of confused about I didn't know if that's oh, you didn't know what the math is on the experience points for unverified I think it's math I have answers for you So that's what I do. I just cut them in half. There's something that's not even, is there? Are there any odd numbers? No, it's all 2, 12, and 20 in these kind of things. Okay, but that's not the easy way to do it. That's a good point. UC Cash pointed out that this is misspelled complete.
    28:11
    So, yeah, window shopping, so it's like start a mode. What's that? Joel. F11. 11. Yep. Perfect. Oh, Lord. I wish I could somehow give you the ability to do that, but no um oh window shopping so let's just start the mode boom four points shopping complete you actually finish the mode 12 points but i this is what gets me excited quick shopping complete window shopping in 20 seconds so that means he's actually tracking we were halving but now we double the points oh that feels good so you don't get less points you just get more points if it's verified i like that i like i don't even though that's like it's just instead of feeling like you're taking away, you're giving more. I don't know. I like that decision because that's kind of what we were talking about on Triple Drain that why not just make it a multiplier to where a thousand is still the same and then it gives you a reason to go out on location now. I like that. How do I activate the 40 XP multiplier?
    29:13
    A turtle? There's no 40 XP. That was a throwback Star Wars reference. Yeah, yeah. I need more bourbon for that conversation. I'm winning gold here. Pinball is even better with friends. Sniff, sniff. You guys are the best. Zach's here, guys, so we can't talk about his pool anymore. Zach, we said somebody needs to take the username of Zach's pool. So Zach's pool. Dennis hasn't made a username yet, so we were trying to pitch him names, and he didn't want to take Zach's pool. Rob G., how you doing? You have to wait for Star Wars. Yep, Star Wars. Dwight, you know he's going to be throwing achievements in there. But this is exciting to me, the fact that it gives me a reason to, like, focus in on a mode and just, and 20 seconds is no joke. That is, you better hit your shots to get these done. So, window shopping, I want a body, Knight of Mousers, see you on the other side, Ray, welcome to the Concrete Jungle, Superfly, the Wrath of Krang. Those are all the episodes in the games. So they're all the same.
    30:15
    Like, yeah, you start it, four points, complete it, 20, complete it in 20 seconds, you get 20. Oh, this is more. So some of these are harder. Like Krang, Wrath of Krang. That's a harder one. Guys, thank you for the bits. It's not too bad in multiball, especially Mousers. Yes, Mousers, it would make sense, yeah. So episode.
    30:35
    So a hero, complete four episodes. Now, Dwight, maybe you can clarify this. is this an overtime thing or is it complete four episodes within a game? Because if it's tracking me playing, if I complete two episodes today and then play again tomorrow and complete two more episodes, did I complete four or is it all, this all has to happen within one game? No, I think that's just one game, Joel, because I think they know that it's lifetime if it is lifetime.
    31:05
    Wait, what do you mean? They have lifetime achievements on it. Ah, okay. They are in that game unless they say lifetime. Got it. So, okay, so four modes. So, boom. Team of Heroes, complete four modes in all four ending shots.
    31:22
    That's actually pretty creative. So on Turtles, when you are playing a mode, to complete the mode, it lights the four turtle shots. And the four turtle shots are Leonardo, which is the lair, Michelangelo, which is under the pizza, the van, Raphael is the left ramp, and Donatello is the center ramp. So you have to complete four episodes. But if I complete episode one using Michelangelo, it's saying, pay attention when you go to complete episode two. You need to complete it on a different shot. There's nothing in the game that actually talks about that. So the fact that for you to complete this means you're going out of your way to purposely try to do that. I don know That makes me excited Dwight that a really interesting one that a really interesting one That going to be a challenge And then complete eight episodes in a game So, I mean, like, Travis, you've gotten to Cowabunga in this game, but obviously some of these things, like, you didn't do this. No, I mean, that's what I was excited about with the achievements, though, is that whoever is putting the achievements together can guide you to the direction that they want you to go and take advantage of different parts of the rule set that may not make sense in the small version of it, just playing game to game. But, I mean, I like the idea of being able to do something outside of the box. That gives me a reason to explore different parts of the game, different strategies. I mean, that's what I'm really excited about with achievements. Because, I mean, it's kind of the same thing, and I'm sure Dennis can talk about this with consoles and PC gaming. There's a lot of achievements there that are sometimes off the beaten path as well. Let's just collect this many things or go here and do, you know, this one thing. And that's what I like about this is this kind of scratches that itch that a lot of us that have played console or PC games for years have, especially if we're completionists as well.
    33:15
    Yeah, for sure. What do you think, Dennis? Yeah, I mean, when Achievements first came out, a lot of developers didn't know what to do with them. And so a lot of them just sort of put them in as milestones for just getting through the game. But very quickly in their life cycle, it became much more about trying to get the gamer who's interested in that to explore playing the game in different ways.
    33:43
    And now usually achievements are a blend. There'll be some for going through and completing your campaign, completing your objectives. That would be the idea of completing modes, getting through the wizard mode in pinball. And then there'd be other things like this, complete the episodes, doing these various shots and such, which would be thinking about a different way to approach the game. And the idea is maybe you have fun in the course of doing that. Yeah, for sure. Like, to be honest, like with Turtles, the lair shot is a shot that I avoid a lot because I just, there's no reason, typically when I'm playing through the game, I'm not really worried about it. But now, I mean, they're throwing achievements in here that are going to force me to hit that shot. I don't know. I think that's pretty really, really, really cool.
    34:26
    Team up. So, yeah, that's just the team up mode. Final battle, start it, complete it. So that's kind of one of the main wizard mode. Collect big points. That's a pop.
    34:38
    So, like, some of these, yeah, like collect April hurry up. That should be pretty quick and easy. But then collect April hurry up during a team up. So now you're limiting yourself to one mode of the game. so while that one mode's going you now have to focus on like you would never do this purposely until this skill that's that's pretty cool complete five april hurry ups use battle again five times in a game so battle again is the outland ball save so like purposely doing that so will these achievements stay up so if i play it once and hit scoop next time i log in will Will the scoop be still lit, I'm assuming, right? Or is that like every game you're trying to get the idea? You've done it. So I'm curious, Dwight, I'm assuming when you play this game, it doesn't tell you you collected that again, right? Again, again. Or is it that way? Do I see that I got these achievements every single time I play it? Or no, it's once you've done it, there's no reason to warn you about it. Dwight did say, he said, I was skeptical about achievements, but when I started collecting them on Deadpool, it gave me new ways to attack the game. I started Mystique and got that achievement. Then I played next. I decided to go Juggernaut because I didn't have that. Exactly.
    35:55
    Correct. Once you get an achievement, it gives it, then doesn't tell you about it anymore. Yeah. I mean, ideally, that should be the way that it is. Once you get it, it's done. And then it gives you reason to keep coming back, assuming they're going to do weekly and monthly stuff as well. Community events and stuff like that, that's what really engages people to keep coming back to the game and kind of staying on that quote-unquote grind of just trying to be a completionist all the time. Or there could be what would be crazy would be if there's, like, how many achievements did you accomplish in one game? So if there's somebody that really tries to create a path of, like, well, if I play the game in this way, then theoretically I could achieve, you know, whatever, 45 of these achievements in one game. There's a ton. There's so much you can do here, which is pretty cool.
    36:47
    So these, deadly, kill 50 foot. That's a lifetime achievement. So that's crazy that it's going to track, like, 250 foot. That's going to take a long time. Like, that's really neat that that is, I don't know. So it's keeping your active total and then your verified total too. I see. Okay. So it's tracking every time you play how many times you get that. Okay. So now this is what's tough, right? So pilot, collect max glider.
    37:17
    I'm on a pro. I can't get that award on a pro. Like that mode is not in the game. That mode is only on a premium, right? So I am seeing that, that there are things built into some of these achievements that if you're a completionist, you're going to have to find that version of the game that fits every achievement, if that makes sense.
    37:44
    So I don't know. What's your view on that? Do you think that all achievements should be able to be accomplished by any model, or are you okay with model-specific achievements?
    37:56
    Dennis, I want the truth, Dennis. Well, Norm, I mean, if I was designing it, I would have model-specific achievements listed as a separate category. Like here are premium LE achievements. If there are any pro-only achievements, put them in a section of pro-only. We see it in video games with DLC, and that was a big debate within gaming about do you count? Like I count a game as full cleared if I beat a retail game and I don't start any DLC. But if I start the DLC, then the full clear means I have to also have completed that DLC package. But if I don't start it, then I've full cleared vanilla.
    38:37
    So, I mean, there's precedence for it, but I would demarcate it just like how DLC is organized in that sort of fashion. If you go to any achievement organizing sites, you'll see they always carve it out into those sort of chunks. Is there different sections? Well, I would say Glider Premium LE, like in brackets. there right uh let everyone know that'd be a simple enough i mean my biggest concern isn't whether or not you can get it it's that if someone didn't know any better like i wouldn't have i don't know turtles so so if i saw this and i went on location and was playing the pro i'd be trying to get this thinking i could interesting yeah i mean i know as like i own the pro and so if i lived in the middle of nowhere, you know, like Oklahoma, and I just couldn't play, like there wasn't a premium around and I just crushed my own game. It's like, yeah, I'd have 76 out of 77 achievements. But I don't mind. I mean, that is a mode that Dwight has gone out of his way to make specifically for it. So I understand why there is an achievement. I get that.
    39:45
    But yeah, that's interesting. Macho Pinball, by the way, thank you for being here. Appreciate you for being here tonight. Now the question is, will Stern Jurassic Park have goat mode that's only accessible for having the topper? I can answer that question, and I don't think you're going to like it. Yeah. I don't think you're going to like it.
    40:07
    What makes you think I'm anything other than neutral? Hey, look, they've got more achievements in Jurassic Park. They do have more achievements. As a Turtles fan, how does that make you feel?
    40:17
    I need 91, Dwight. So, right here. I mean, goat mania. Start goat mania. The only way to do that is if it has a topper. They're watered down. That's what he said. They're watered down. That's a great answer. Why it's not wrong, go find When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth. We were having a fun time seeing what the points are worth on that. When dinosaurs. Wait till you see it.
    40:45
    Right here. Five points? Yeah. That's like the main wizard mode. That's the main wizard mode? You put it at five points? I got this theory. I think Elwynn just sits there and he's like, he gets it every other game. He's like, huh, yeah, five points. He's just trolling. I mean, but some of these other ones, like start, escape, noob, large, 25. This has to be a joke. Like, he has to be. Again, that's something that in gaming that there was one game I was playing, it was some JRPG that was really rough, and beating the ethereal queen in the hardest setting was one point because no one would do it.
    41:19
    But they tried to compel you to because you got nine points for doing something at the start of the game. So in order to get that round number. Oh, wow. You'd have to get the one. That's smart.
    41:31
    Naparcade, this live broadcast has such a cooler vibe than the last one. Can't figure out why. I think it's got to. I mean, there's only been one change besides swapping logos.
    41:40
    Craig's new camera. It's Craig's new camera. Of course. We're skaters. It's Craig's new camera. All right, I wanted to finish.
    41:53
    So, okay, so with that Goat Mania mode, so now not only do you have to find a JJP with the insider connected, you also have to find. What would JJP have to do with it? Not JJP. You have to find a Jurassic Park JP, Jurassic Park. You have to find one that has the insider connected in it, and you're going to have to have a topper. So, Zach, meaning people are going to be knocking on your door, man.
    42:15
    What else do we have? There's so many. This makes me excited how many there are. crane combos, that's a normal part of the game. Gluttony, so like pieces of slices, so a thousand pieces of a thousand slices of pizza. Like, that is... That's a lot of teal. That's a lot. Now, Dwight, if you're still in chat, does it count, do you get a slice of pizza when you hit the target, or you're only getting the slice of pizza when you're hitting the button?
    42:46
    Because I'm trying to think, are you collecting seven pieces, and that's how you get into that pizza mode where you're the pizza eating contest i don't remember but uh when we create achievements that require premium or topper or other i assume that will that the completionist will find a game at a show and try it yeah that's uh yeah that's an interesting point um take an interest interested list for insider connected kids at flipping out pinball just in uh bye bye bye bye bye bye if anybody wants any of this feel free to buy it From Zach. Or others. Coin giver, right?
    43:25
    Dinner time. I will say overall, I'm really surprised by the amount of achievements in the game. I didn't know how many to expect. I didn't expect this many. And they all make sense. You know what I mean? It just gives you so much to do. So this right here, it kind of exceeds what my expectations were of it. Because I had it in my head, maybe they're going to have it be worth $1,000 or something like that, and maybe have somewhere between 40 and 50 achievements total. So even if the points are slightly lowered, I just like seeing that many things to do in it. And I like seeing the lifetime achievements as well. I think something like that, it gives you a big reason to keep replaying these games over and over again. And I look through them, and I don't mind necessarily there being achievements that's exclusive to a topper or to the premium or to the LE. Because just like Dwight said, that's kind of a big deal that you can go to these shows, and it gives you a reason to seek out these games. And it gives you a reason to go to some of these booths as well to be able just to play it. Yeah.
    44:36
    I don't know. I like the idea of having achievements to where I can't necessarily complete the whole thing in my house. And I like the idea that I have to go out and I have to kind of find these. And I guess for me that goes to a lot of shows, I'm excited about that. It gives me a reason to go find these games. It gives me a reason to approach these games differently. Yeah. But everything I'm seeing so far, you have to have a premium RLE. So I don't know if there would be something that's a pro-only achievement. But Dwight pointed out, he said, first off, the pizza. Every time you hit a target, you get a piece of pizza. So that means you're hitting 1,000 targets. He also pointed out this one below it, mushroom pizza. Mushrooms are only in the premiums and LEs. So that's another one that you have to have a premium or LE. So get a plus one multiplier in the lair. So that means when you're in this multi-ball, if you have a mushroom, you can actually stick a ball in the lair shot and it will hold it.
    45:27
    So that's kind of crazy. Sounds like locations need to buy toppers. I like the Sullivan Supreme. The Sullivan Supreme is pretty slick. Yeah, start with ice cream, octopus, and chili peppers. So, once again, that is a very – that will be a – because you can change your pizza toppings by hitting the targets. So that is a lot of work to get that specific combination.
    45:52
    Like, I don't know. I was afraid that some of these achievements would be, you know, if you're Keith Elwin, you step up to your game, you're just going to have – you're going to get 45 out of 50 achievements without even thinking about it. Not at all.
    46:05
    Correct us the plan, Coz. Expo, we plan to show off as much as possible. Oh, all the games, they're saying, well, Stern Games at Expo, that's smart, yeah.
    46:17
    I was a little bit surprised when I looked at the list of their starting titles. I just assumed that they would go from most recent and then back through the ones that had been released last, I guess. And so I was surprised to see games like The Avengers, which only came out a year ago, not even ready to go. So I was a little disappointed with that. And they put Black Knight ahead. Like, what the F? Well, I think Ray said, I mean, I think. It's the Black Knight owners, but geez. I think they basically said with Avengers, most of the achievements are the trophies, right? The trophy. Yeah. I would have put Black Knight dead last if I was them.
    46:56
    No, see, Richie, but geez. Yeah. If there's like eight left, we're just going to put that on the back burner. That's right, exactly. Radical here, these are some interesting ones because eight ball, you have to have, for eight balls, you have to have a premium or LE.
    47:13
    I mean, these are very specific. So, Dwight, well done, man. You're hitting on something, Joel, that's pretty important, though, or even the casual player. These achievements are going to force people to learn the rule set. They're going to force people to explore the game more and just look at it from a different perspective. There's probably a lot of people that play Ninja Turtles and still don't know how the toppings change or even how to lock in the toppings, you know? Dennis, do you know how the toppings change?
    47:47
    No. You don't play Turtles either? Turtles just kicks you out of the last few tournaments, right? We have a pro on location. I've played it a few times. Yeah. You change toppings with, you hit the little pizza targets.
    48:03
    Now you know. At the same time, you'll make progress towards an achievement as well. Yeah. There you go. Every time you hit a pizza topping, you're one step closer to your 1,000th. Not until I have my profile and we have the insider connected on the machine. Your profile, yeah. Zach's a fool, man. You've got to get it.
    48:21
    Dwight said all 17 Spike games will be connected by the end of the year. That's pretty sick. Like, Dwight, is there any way that you want to – should we expect any other type of code update when these come out? Like, that's – I don't know. There's a bunch of games that people are talking about code updates, and they're like, well, let's wait for – there's obviously going to be a code update for you to get Insider Connected on your game. So I think people are just assuming now all of a sudden this is an opportunity for other games to get code updates, like, that haven't been updated in a while. I don't know if you want to talk about that or not. But Dennis needs Nordman. Yep, Zach still, he's all about it. Yes, Turtles will have a code update. Awesome. That's cool. That's very cool.
    49:05
    Neutrino Pizza Party. I mean, these are, this is what's cool. Like, it's a grind to get to, and I mean that in a good way, to get to Neutrino Pizza Party. That's leveling up your character to three. But then, not only getting there, you're going to have to actually get $10 million. Like, these are going to be hard. That was my fear, is if I'm going to pay money to have this in my home, am I going to burn through these achievements in, like, two weeks? And, no. Turtles has a special cool new role with connectivity. I like cool rules.
    49:34
    Complete one weapon combo. Complete two consecutive weapons. This is cooperative, so you have to play in co-op mode.
    49:42
    Interesting. That's creative. Wow. Okay. How does that work for you when you don't have any friends? I'm going to have to talk my wife into it, and then I'm going to play.
    49:55
    I'll play more than one character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, good point. Thank you, Dennis, for pointing that out.
    50:03
    The gold version, though, on the co-op, that's going to be difficult. Train all four turtles to level four.
    50:12
    Oh, you could do that. No. Yeah, you could do that. I mean, you could do it. I'm getting that lair shot a lot.
    50:22
    You're going to get really good on it, though, getting through this thorough bronze and silver up to that gold. So by then you'll be a pro. True, true. It is, I mean, but these are cool. These are very, very cool.
    50:33
    Wow. Just this picture here of Cowabunga, I don't understand which part of the turtle this is. It's the mouth. Oh, it's the mouth. It's just really zoomed in.
    50:46
    Have you ever read a comic book? That was, I believe your turtles training levels are going to hold as long as you play like once a week.
    50:57
    Interesting. Joel. That would be. What? I'm not going to let you off the hook on this one. Where do you think the turtles are talking out of? I see it now. I was just looking. I've been looking at these art because I think it's cool. Zombie Yeti, like they paid Zombie Yeti to make these icons. I get it. Okay. I get it. Haskell challenge. Joel approves of Zombie Yeti's icon work on Calabunga. Got it. Yeah. Perfect. Renaming this topic to TMA. Well, Dennis is in here.
    51:31
    I don't know. We just go into this one first. We can look at the other. We should look at Black Knight next, right? I'm not saying that we just walk through every single achievement for turtles or anything. But I'm kind of saying it. I have not looked at these. He's going to leave. Keep going. Right here. Half Shell Challenge. So I think it's funny that, what, Zach, you worked really hard to break 200, right?
    51:54
    But, like, you're going to have to do it again, clearly. Not 200, 100. He broke 100 seconds. So 100, baby. Yeah. These are cool. I mean, Turtles is the game I'm most familiar with, and there are some achievements in here that get me very excited.
    52:12
    And, obviously, I know, Dwight, the way you are, you're probably going to think, and there will probably be other achievements you'll think of. So it wouldn't surprise me if this number is going to go up, which is pretty cool. But even if it doesn't, 77, I don't know, like Travis said earlier, that's a lot more than I expected. But, yeah, 2,000. Travis, you were the completionist, though, right? So the moment you sign in the first time on any one of these games, I feel like it's going to keep you up at night if you don't complete it, right? Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, and then Ray, he's offering bets on Led Zeppelin, and now I have a reason to play Led Zeppelin nonstop.
    52:50
    So Dwight said we are locking all games to 2,000 points. So that's why Keith only made that five points, right? Because for the completionist, he's going to see he's right there. but it's also why make that like 500 points when nobody's ever going to get it. He got all the way to the end and just forgot about his own wizard mode and was like huh? 5 points No but if you get that then that's how you get your nice round number of 2000 right? I honestly think it's pretty funny that that wizard mode is only worth 5 points. I think it's great. I almost think Dennis, I liked what Dennis said. I think it should be worth 1 just like cap it off right?
    53:34
    I think he 2,000 for verified. Oh, so. Yeah, 1,000 for unverified, 2,000 for verified. Okay. All right. I think it's neat.
    53:46
    I did like, at least yesterday when I checked, I thought this was pretty funny. Of course. It's Elvira. There's 69 achievements. That's got to be purposeful. I mean.
    53:56
    Just a coincidence, Joel. Ray Day, man. 72. What achievement in here are you most proud of? Let's take a look. You get to name one. You get one. You're only proud of one. You get to name one. Well, I don't want to bore everybody by looking at three of them, but I think these are pretty great. I'm glad you're so concerned about their feelings now. Two times Mothership Super Jackpot. Score a two-time Super Jackpot. Travis, how do you score a jackpot in Mothership Multi-Bowl? How do you do this? 2x super jackpot that's near impossible let's just put it that way how many points is net worth on there? 25 well I'd assume if it's a 2x you have to Ray are you talking about you have to do that twice or I'm trying to think because it's been a while since I played Led Zeppelin that sounds like it would be you do one 2x mothership super jackpot one shot score a super jackpot and mothership multi how do you do a normal super jackpot and mothership multi-ball i'm trying to remember i don't even know if i've hit a super jackpot so what did you say dennis i said that it's not getting two mothership super jackpots you can make it worth 2x and then do a shot and get it i don't know how i've never i just i just saw Well, Dwight said, geez, we've spent too much time on Zeppelin. The three minutes we've sat on Zeppelin.
    55:36
    Now, is there any spinner achievements on Led Zeppelin? Yeah, I would love there to be modes that count spinners. Super spinners. Yeah, but, like, count how many spins, right? Like 10,000 spins or something like that. Wow, you sure want it to be a lot of spins. Dude, those spinners can go a long time. Like, I feel like 10,000 spins is not as, you could probably get that pretty quick. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but.
    56:04
    Is there anything in here? Or do we have any, like, Sullivan, you had Sullivan's Pizza. Is there anything that's like Ray Day's, I don't know, dance party or something? I don't know. There's no reference to Ray on every single modern Stern, it feels like. Just joking.
    56:23
    Ray's Fest. Yeah there's a Rey on Ninja Turtles There's Ultra Rey or whatever on God of War There's Isn't there a Rey on Avengers also A lot of Reys Going around Put Rey as initials Dalton how you doing buddy Um I think one of them should have been called Banjo Or something in there Yeah that would have been sweet and with it being a band theme it could have kind of worked but only kind of these are pretty, I don't know, there's some really unique ones in here for sure, these are the rules Dennis, with Led Zeppelin well you're speaking like someone who doesn't really know Zeppelin very well you said all these rules in Zeppelin you said I don't want to I forget what you said on the pinball show, you were like I don't know I didn't want to learn the rules because I don't like the layout. That's right, it was, yeah. Perfect set. It doesn't make me want to buy it, I guess, was actually how I phrased it. I can say my other favorite. Perfect set. Perfect set right here. Light question mark multi-ball without playing top of the charts.
    57:36
    How do you do that? The question mark multi-ball, isn't that... Oh, my God. That's a clever girl moment there. Yeah, that...
    57:47
    There's probably legit only a handful of people that can actually do that. So top of the charts you get by completing all the airport modes, right?
    57:57
    Isn't that how you get the top of the charts? So it's basically saying don't use any of the multiballs?
    58:02
    No. It's based off your records that you're collecting. So you have to, if I remember right, you have to have everything platinum before you can play the question mark multiball. So top of the charts is the wizard mode directly below that in order to boost it. the airport modes say the word there Travis what are the modes called not doing it just say it it's a four letter word you got it world I don't want to be your deathy monkey I apologize for nothing tour modes how do you pronounce it Well, you actually really messed me up, though. You actually really messed me up because you said, how do you say the word, if I'm going to go play in a pinball blankament, right? Like, how do you say that word? I'm going to go play in a pinball. Tournament. Exactly, tournament. So that's why you're saying if it's tournament, then why is it not tur?
    59:10
    And I was like, crap, I hadn't thought about that. It's tour. Tournament. I called it tournament. In Oklahoma, you call it a tournament, not a tournament. Yeah, but in Oklahoma, you don't say tur.
    59:24
    I don't know. You say tur and don't. You say tur in Oklahoma, okay? Tur. Craig, you're representing your entire country. How do you say that word in Canada? Tur. World poker tur. Please get it to me.
    59:44
    You and Craig are both saying it differently. Like, I'm hearing it differently. Joel, how do you say it? Tour. Craig, how do you say it? Tour.
    59:55
    World tour. Craig, his sounds great. Yeah, and how do you say it? Tour. The right way. Tour. Tour? Tour. Every single person that's watching right now is probably saying this out loud to see if they sound like an idiot.
    60:13
    I like Zach's comment, though. World poker. How do you say that one? What game is that? That's road poker. Tur.
    60:22
    Road poker. What? That's not how you say it. Road poker tur. You know what? I didn't have one teacher in 12 years in the Oklahoma public school system ever correct me. So I stand by it. I will die on this hill. We'll go back to airplane modes. I think that's even better. Penn Stadium. Airport modes.
    60:45
    God. Scott, thank you for the bits. Penn Stadium, everybody. Appreciate that. Ray, how long did it take you to come up with the airport modes? Yeah, the airport modes are great. I've heard it. Look at Zach. Zach, my favorite. All Joel remembers about that game is the blimp on it. The blimp.
    61:07
    The great blimp, okay? The great blimp and the airport modes. and I'll tell you, I don't forget the Hermit shot because I was nailing that shot. My favorite Xbox game, Turok. Well done, Zach. Turok. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Dalton. See, Dalton can relate. He's from Georgia. He knows. He knows what's up. Oh, boy. All right. These city folk trying to tell me how to pronounce tour. Hey, Ray, can you do me a favor and mispronounce tour in one of these and just make it T-U-R? Oh, my God, no. Just one of the modes. Where is it?
    61:44
    No. There you go. Right there. Roll tur. Make it to you are. Good guy. He'll change the title to Airport Modes. It'll be great. Okay. Led Zeppelin.
    62:02
    Those are pretty cool. And, yes, Ray was offering money to anybody that can do it, which I think is pretty cool. Ray, have you achieved all these in your game? I'm assuming. Maybe that's a poor assumption. Instructions, I just saw this.
    62:17
    Oh, so this is... Oh, that's interesting. The gameplay guide? Check out the full gameplay guide. Oh, so it links straight to the PDF. Yeah. So that's pretty sick if you're standing in front of the game. Yeah, but ultimately for achievements, people are going to want a system where they'll be able to look up guides for the quickest way, most easy way to achieve achievements, if it works how it does in video games. People will develop it if it's not easily being able to be done through the Stern setup. Yeah.
    62:47
    Because if you do Xbox, to this day, it's like, oh, here's an achievement, I don't quite know what it is. I don't go and read the game manual. I look up a guide that's like, how am I supposed to blow up three guys with one grenade?
    62:58
    Travis, you're familiar with Gilligan's Island, right? Gilligan's Island, the show? Oh, yeah, I know. It has Toitles in it. Well, Gilligan's Island, they went on a three-hour what? They went on a three-hour boat ride. No, it's a tour. A three-hour tour. That's what Lake Show is trying to get you to say, three-hour tour. What does Gilligan's Island have to do with this? I'm so confused right now. Lake Show 2112 tried to get you to say Gilligan went on a three-hour tour. Our chef has decided they're just trying to work the word tour into things. Into everything possible. I swear, if anybody comes up to me at a show and tries to do that, I walk away. I will knock out whatever's in your hand unless it's a beer. I have standards, but yes, then I'll just walk away. The best part is you said, Travis, when you made that video, you asked Monica, right, before. You're like, am I saying this right? I knew it was going to sound weird, but I was just like, this is just how I sound. And I just made it. Dwight said Dennis the instructions are not there for the achievements it's more learning about the game and for any reason no he did not he said they not there just for the achievements oh I enunciated the wrong word no you didn say a word I got to be on my toes guys You changed the meaning of his entire statement, to which I would say, yes, I understand the value of linking to the instructions. I'm just saying that there's going to be a market for someplace to host guides just for the achievements. Yes. And we're going to call it Pinball Achievement Hunter. Oh, look at you. Great mark, yeah. Yep, sorry. Nobody stole that. I'll report your video.
    64:43
    Zach called me out. You've been creasled, yo. You've been frigging creasled. It would make sense, yeah, if there was a way to, like, click on the achievement and it give you a little blurb on exactly what you have to do to get it. Or a little mystery. I don't know. That's not Stern's job, though. You know what I mean? It's not something I would expect. I don't know if their site currently would have updated or not.
    65:04
    Yeah, I know you know this, Dennis, but I know NumNuts right above me doesn't know this, though. Right. Do you see the comments? Do you see Dalton's comment, Travis? Dalton's comment is what kind of people are discussing. It's head of me. Can we not have a brief just recollection on our seven-minute discussion on Led Zeppelin where Joel pretended to know what all of the things were? The airplane mode. And in a pretty poor fashion. Yeah, but Travis Murray is pretty great. Sorry, Joel Numnuts above me, Engelbert. Yes, correct. Godzilla, is it worth looking at these? Does this spoil anything? There's 39. There's 39 achievements. But I didn't know if it made sense to look at some of these to figure out if it's going to sell us more. 39? That's nothing. It's only worth 900 points.
    65:56
    Oh, they don't have them all in. What has Elwin been doing? He's probably not finalized the rule set yet. Well, what's the final one? And is it worth more than five points?
    66:07
    Use Heat Ray. There's your other Ray reference. I see what you did there. I don't know what the end. Lifetime loops. I like that. 250 loops lifetime. What's going to be crazy is somebody, is there a way, Dwight, to reset your achievements? Because I guarantee somebody's going to be, like, first to do 250 loops in one game or something. So they'll time it and want to see that pop up. You know what I mean? Like, there's going to – people are going to compete on these things. So I wonder – or do you have a setting where it's, like, hide – Don't the games already, like, keep track of number of loops and such per game? Maybe. Like, it's not in your stat if it leads to something? But if you think about, like, Carl's – Carl with, like, Pin Clash, right? So it's all about you've got to see it. You've got to see it pop up. Like, these are going to be awesome tasks to do in Pin Clash. So if there was a setting to say, like, show existing achievements or show achievements of RDR. I would be shocked. I know of no achievement system that allows a reset. Well, not necessarily a reset, but I'm saying instead of not showing me when I achieve it for the second time or a third time. It's not an achievement anymore at that point. Oh. You're really just wanting things to pop up all the time, aren't you, Joel? No. It sounds like you want ads. You really need validation when he places them. I'm saying I started it again guys I did it no I did 250 loops and then I did another 250 yeah that's 500 loops don't you love me I was thinking of like a speed run that kind of thing even though cause yeah I don't know it was just a thought apparently in this crowd how do we currently do speed runs I guess we'll still do them that way Joel is such a shill shill shill Craig do you see what I'm saying or no? Clearly I'm getting a lot of hate from Trevor. I don't want to watch you one night. This is a silly place. Don't agree with it.
    68:09
    I understand what you're trying to say, Joel. But you've got to take the achievements out of that, though. You're wanting to be able to compete one-on-one with somebody and do an achievement, right? That's what you're wanting. Yeah, first one to 50 loops, go. Or first one to this. But the reality is that both of you have already achieved that, a lifetime achievement to something you've done, you can't do that race. But, I mean, I'm thinking... You just can't use the achievements to let you know when you cross the finish line. Yeah, exactly. It's like, there are inserts in The Walking Dead that let me know how many walkers I have killed in a given game. I can have a walker race with Travis and lose without an achievement needing to be there. Good point.
    68:52
    You're kind of on the right track. I think if it was, I don't know if this is possible to code in, but I think it would be cool if you would have some type of race you could do against somebody to where you put in what you're wanting to try to do, like defeat this or defeat that, and then as soon as you do it, the flippers die. And the game recognizes that you've done that. I don't know if that's possible, but that would be pretty dope. That would be pretty dope, especially if they're on different locations. That would be incredible. I mean, yeah, that would be pretty awesome. That's like building your own mini-game. So we want Pinball to become Roblox.
    69:30
    Oh, man. No, no. Agreed, Travis. We plan to do head-to-head stuff like that. Dwight's got it right there. Boom, head-to-head stuff. Suck it, din-din. Done. We got it. Suck it, din-din. Oh, Travis is gone.
    69:47
    I don't, but, I mean, the head-to-head tournaments. Carl does head-to-head tournaments all the time. So, if you're telling me, if you can establish head-to-head stuff in remote locations, where, hey, let's start this at the same, I mean, I was just on a stream on Tuesday where we did flip tronic the end don't panic flip we're battling out in in um stranger things but you know certain achievements we're like okay what's the how do we know you complete a mode we have to wait for it to pop up plus one i forget what it is in that game but it's you have an achievement system now so it's like this is what we're competing on yeah have the flippers die or make it very clear when you achieve i i don't know i think it could be pretty cool you do whatever you want with it. Do what you want.
    70:28
    I'm in charge now. What do you want to do with it, Dennis? I don't know what Dennis would do. I'm indifferent. You can either build your races around things that are already easily measurable, and that'll be just fine, but if they want to make it easier to do more customizable head-to-head stuff, I think that's fine too, but I don't see it having anything to do with the achievement system.
    70:50
    This is exactly why Dennis is one of my favorite people in pinball right now. So he has an opinion and he's confident in it. It's great. Dwight's right. This would be a challenge mode and not part of the achievement. So I think that would be a great thing. I think it would be awesome to be able to do that on location or at local tournaments or at your house with friends. I think it would be really cool. Yeah. Pindiana Jones, great name, by the way. Does Pindiana Jones own a Deadpool? I'm curious so that they could have the Temple of Boom.
    71:25
    I hope he does. But he's saying, yeah, make a new profile. It's not here that tour or tur. No, because, hey, I'm telling you right now, if Travis said boom wrong, we'd be making fun of that too. But, yeah, you got a ha out of Dwight, so well done. Creasled. Have I told you about my game where there are all these dad jokes and they try and get away? What I call it, dad joke plant. Dad joke plant, yeah. You got to catch them all? Yeah. I think a Canadian company would build that for me.
    71:58
    What are we saying? Canadian, yeah, yeah. So, Zach, I've got to ask you here, Mr. Flippin' Out, why did you make two accounts? So you have ZMini and Zach Flippin' Out. We were assuming you had one for home play and one for location play, or you just, I don't know, want to collect them all. I don't know.
    72:18
    Craig. Which means style pinball. Nope. Don't worry about it, numb nuts. Nice. Craig, you have your Avengers at home. Are you planning on buying this for your Avengers? Absolutely.
    72:37
    Zero hesitation. But look at that. It's grayed out. So I'm going to get it, and it's not even going to be active. Active by the end of the year, right? But maybe by the time the shipping fleet will be able to get it to you, they'll be ready.
    72:53
    Maybe you'll have made up your mind about that shaker motor by then. Yes, exactly. I hope Keith makes one, plus five, if you own a shaker motor, and you're going to be stuck. You're going to have to get it. Are there any shaker motor achievements?
    73:06
    I don't know. I doubt it. Do you want to look at the Black Knight achievements? I know you guys are really excited about them. I don't know Black Knight at all. One, play Black Knight. There you go. One, start 68. They weren't allowed to do 69. Statement one, find it.
    73:26
    Is there a Black Knight mode restricted to the topper? Oh, surely with the upper play field they would have that. Magna save. Use the magna save.
    73:36
    Every new player is going to accidentally get that one. Use the magna save. Yep. I don't know this enough.
    73:48
    Yep, yep, yep. I don't know it. I don't know any of these rules. Why don't you fake it like you did with Led Zeppelin? I did.
    73:56
    I missed name one. Airport modes. Come on. These look great, Ray Day. Airport modes. Airport modes and Ray Day calls me out. Yeah, I love it. Dalton, have a good night, fellas. I'm heading out. Quit raging on Turfist.
    74:11
    Appreciate it, Dalton. Thank you, man. Use the MagneSave to actually save a ball. Still not achieved. That's the only one he can achieve.
    74:20
    I don't know. I'm excited about this. We've obviously talked about this for a while. I think there was a lot of conversation. There was a lot of unknown.
    74:28
    I don't know. Personally, I'm very excited about the achievements, especially with a home collector. Craig, will that bother you, like only completing half these achievements, or are you going to grind it out? I'm going to grind. Well, it depends what they are. I'm curious to see what they are for Avengers, because I feel like the Avengers, and I'm not sure if it's like this on Turtles and stuff, I do feel like there are a lot of achievements built into this game already. So it'll be interesting to see what the other ones are. I mean, I'm getting a flavor for it, you know, by looking at these other ones. So I'm sure there's going to be some time-based stuff and, you know, doing things multiple times.
    75:03
    It'll be interesting to see how they do that. I'm not going to lie, this is the first time I've noticed this horse.
    75:12
    There's actually a horse on the... I don't know. I just always... I never noticed. I just always thought that was part of his armor. He's on a horse.
    75:20
    Am I an idiot? Have you guys always seen that? Yes, you are. Zoom into that. I can barely even see it. It's so small.
    75:30
    What's my shortcut for that? F11. I'm going the wrong way. I can't scroll look he zoomed in on turtles what a shock there's a horse right there I don't know I never noticed that do you not see the teeth? I see it now I'm admitting what I yeah he's thinking your struggle is that the horse's colors do not pop enough not saturated enough yeah stranger thing I mean I can't click on any of these that's the thing they've got me excited I have no idea what any one of these others.
    76:08
    Pending licensure approval. Who? Who's pending licensure approval? There's a star. Huh? Star Wars? So there may not be able to get achievements in Star Wars if the licensure doesn't approve it? Whoa, Joel. They probably get authority over what they're named.
    76:30
    Oh. Okay. Oh, Godzilla was pending as well, it said at the top. Oh, gotcha. Okay. I don't know, these are cool. Or maybe it was before. Yeah, they don't want to stick in any Gamera-named achievements on Godzilla. So what else is on this Insider Connected? Because the only thing I've seen myself is the achievement, so I'm not sure what else is involved. I got your home, you got your news, games. Obviously, we looked at that location. So is this going to become a new, I mean, this is blank. There's nothing here yet. but is this going to be once it sounds like I don't know once things get connected I bet that's the army locations I bet they'll show the army stuff and let you know where they're all at that would be cool it makes the most sense here you go look at this flipping out Zach Z-Mini the guy signed up twice let's double check what was it Zach's pool is it Does anybody have that yet? No.
    77:35
    I'm on my way up. Yeah, I don't know. These are the people I'm following so far. Craig Bobby, you got the moves because you're Canadian. Got to be. So this will be very interesting. Obviously, I can see your points, but I'm hoping I could, like, click your achievements, see what they are. See what they are, yeah. Yeah.
    77:56
    Well, that's all there is so far. Just, there's a lot of people, open up Facebook and you'll see everybody else has signed up for stuff.
    78:04
    Cause, cause is in here. Let's add them. It's this easy. You just search it and you go, boop, and follow. Ooh, look at this. He throws some hyphens in here. Look at that.
    78:15
    See, now we know why Joel wanted to look at this. He just wanted to get more friends during the stream. Guys, I need, I need friends. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think this is exciting. This is exciting. and then announcements just yeah news they should show how many people are following you or like I guess I have no idea if anybody's following me I don't want to know how many people follow me on the Xbox if you're not friends with them but they've sent a friend request it still counts as following you and when you accept it then you're friends you probably had a lot of those from your Call of Duty days back in the day All the people following him. The website, Glenna was asking the website, insider.sternpinball.com. Yeah, start with that. Cos was saying you had to have a username of at least five letters, so that's why you had to add the hyphens. So way to get creative on that. I know, like, don't panic flip. He, like, flip wouldn't fit. Same thing with Frisco Pinball. He was one away, so people are struggling. Just don't panic. Yeah. How did you find both my usernames? I searched many. you don't have to search the username you can search just a normal name and it popped up so Zmini and then the other one so that's why I'm curious if somebody just searched Joel technically I think I could see any Joels that have signed up yeah I don't know that's how it works right now this is all there is right now and then exclusives we talked about this is more news This is a forum, so they're hoping for Engage the Stern Pinball and pinball fans everywhere.
    80:02
    Inside Killer coming in. I don't know. There's 100 topics already for each of these. Wow. Join the conversation so it's not in yet. It looks like just a straight-up forum. The Inside Scoop. Get tips and learn from pinball fans and professional players. Be the first to know about upcoming quests and promotions. Oh, wow, this will be really This will be cool Look directly to your right Your mouse, just keep going Is that what you wanted? It says new challenge, Zeppelin Multi-Monday So Oh, right there, new challenge, Zeppelin Multi-Monday So I wonder if that means they'll have daily challenges Maybe They'll give you a reason to show up on the forum Yeah I mean, I like the look of this app and I guess it's a website right now, but I think it's a nice, clean, easy-to-navigate app they've designed here. So that's one of the things I liked about it. It's fairly, although those icons are a little nebulous. I'm like, what does a flipper represent? I don't know.
    81:08
    Do you know what I mean? Like you have to kind of flip around a little bit to find where you're going. But I like when you're in these areas, I like the way it's laid out. It's nice and clear.
    81:18
    So, you know, so far it's good. Dwight said I can't wait for the forum so it will be nice to freely answer questions I mean Dwight you're active though on Pinside so I'm curious if this is just going to be easier for you is this all Tanya this has all been Tanya or is there somebody else that manages this I mean this is well done and then this is your profile obviously I can upgrade there's my home address everybody just saw so feel free to send me whatever you want Yeah, so that's pretty cool. It's pretty nifty so far. We were not supposed to be active on Pinside. Oh, well, thank you for breaking that rule because you are.
    82:00
    It's a dangerous game to play because you post something about, say, turtles, and the next thing you know you have 50 people demanding to know when you're going to go over to Spooky and fix the Halloween insert.
    82:14
    It's a heavy burden any manufacturer or employee carries. Well, there we go. Come on, numb nuts, upgrade to all access. I love that. Zach, that's never going to go away. So well done, Travis.
    82:28
    Hey, that's what I'm here for. All right, so that's about it for Insider Connected. I don't know, excited. I think we're all just kind of a wait and see situation. Actually, Craig, you can take that over, please. But we shall wait and see. Thank you. Thank you for that. That was much needed.
    82:43
    I have to get a little more up for it. I'm not up enough yet. Early on, Fox Cities, Tom said that I think he's going to have access to a Godzilla tomorrow. So people are going to be putting up stuff the moment Godzillas are touched. This is pretty neat. This is actually very, very neat for sure. Tom Graff just messaged me. Why did Tom just message me? Probably telling you not to talk about him when he's not around. He's probably trying to tell you, hey, I want to hear about the new designer, the Jersey Jack. Actually, he messaged our Triple Drain message, and he just said, thank you, Turvis. So thank you, Tom. That's literally what he wrote. Thank you, Tom. I'm going to leave Triple Drain.
    83:27
    Joel, Tanya did lots, but it was a team of people inside CIRM. I have external teams, too. The website was all external. Tanya wrote much of the client-side achievement notifications. I don't know. I'm excited about this. I think it looks very well done.
    83:42
    Thank you, Trevor. See, Tom is still here. All right, new news. Jersey Jack, did anybody see this coming? Did anybody see? Oh, well, here we go. We're going to have a. Oh, I can message you on that here. Let me. Yeah, it'll pop up. I can't wait for these to pop up. Yeah. Are you ready? Yeah. What are you? And Joel really did not want us to be on Facebook, and now we know why. F11, Joel. Oh, God, you're the worst. There you go. But I think I speak for the entire world and say no. No one saw this coming.
    84:16
    No, I mean, good on Mark, though. So Mark, if you don't know Mark, he actually, at the live, he has been working on this, Metroid. He's been doing his own pinball machine. And to be honest, it's really pretty cool. He has on Twitch, he has his own channel, the R-cade. It's this username. and he streams him making this all the time. And the light show is impressive. He's put in some really cool mechs in the game.
    84:46
    Metroid is a video game, a Nintendo game, if you don't know. But, I mean, the game's not even finished, but he is constantly working on this thing. So clearly, if you're good with homebrew, there's a good chance that, I don't know, you have a lot better chance. Like, look, it's got Nisi and, obviously, now Mark. you can get hired.
    85:09
    So, we talked about this on Triple Drain the other day, right? When they hired Scott, or when they hired Steve.
    85:17
    The next game that comes out is probably Pat Lawler's, right? Next year. That's the assumption, yes. And then, Eric is already working on his next one. So, are we talking two plus years for Steve to make one, and then now?
    85:34
    He is a junior designer, less than five years as a designer. So, like, is Mark slated for three, four years down the road, or is this a mentorship program? 2030.
    85:45
    I don't know. 2026. Maybe 2025. No, yeah, no, I would think it would be that far out. You see, Dwight, I think Steve's hands are handcuffed behind his back in that picture. I mean, now, I assume they're going to have a second line going, like, soon. You know, if they're doing... Doing Wonkas. Yeah, it's going now. So let's say by next year they move on so that, in theory, they could have two individual games going, I don't know, not obviously at the same time, but like a term where they do a couple releases a year. Oh, I feel a dendon. Dennis adjusted his team. I was in Toitle's position, and now I have to be in JJD's position. Okay.
    86:30
    You have a good point, Craig, But let's run some of their own numbers. So they've already talked about the playfields for sale to everyone who's upset about the chipping at the end of the GNR run. And I believe they indicated that based off of these sales at that time, that was projected to be June of 2022.
    86:51
    Now, that's with GNR on the main line because they said that before they even had the sideline going. So I'm going to guess that Toy Story is announced as Lawler's Game sometime Q2 of next year. Q2, maybe Q3.
    87:10
    Eventually, now the question is, are they going to keep pushing the GNRs out that they have all these back orders on because people are furious? I think yes. So that's why, you know, they might announce a little before they actually start building and shipping. But JJP always takes crap when they do that. so they're going to want to pull a stern and be able to start sending them out within two weeks of announcement, in my view.
    87:34
    If it is Toy Story, it's going to be successful just off of license. It's going to be the same scenario as GNR, most likely. Definitely better off than even Wonka was, in my view. And so you're going to have another set situation here where they're going to be stuck building the game for over a year. This is a company that has never put out a game within 12 months of the prior game, and I see no reason to think they can change now, and I don't think the problem has been a shortage of designers. So then continuing to onboard designers gives me no confidence regarding the ability to output more games. That's my stance on it.
    88:10
    Now, he's still working a lot, looking at and working with Pat and Eric and Steve, but Metroid, the JJP version, 2026, maybe 2025. Dwight's hopping in here. You need junior designers. I seriously hope Steve makes great games there, but someday they will need new designers. Yes, obviously when you look at this picture, there's a lot of experience on the left side here. So if each of them take one under their belt, I mean, it sounds like Steve had a really cool relationship with Tim, Tim Sexton. I mean, I don't know. He was pouring a lot into him because, obviously, they had a designer and a software lead going on. So if that's a thing, this mentorship, I mean, Mark is labeled as a junior designer, so that's pretty cool. Zach's asking, Dwight, do you think I have a shot?
    89:05
    It's not a bad move. And, hey, they may be so flush with Sweet Child of Mine money at this point that they can go ahead and start doing this. But this was a company that a few years ago was not in great financial shape. So, I mean, they're making a lot of different moves now that Jack has been pushed further and further out of leadership. And I think most of the moves they've been making are smart ones. But they have a PR problem that they still haven't adequately addressed regarding the play field issue. And just like everyone else, their costs are going up dramatically because of supply chain issues. So, and they, I mean, earlier, I think before we even went on, one of y'all was joking about how they posted in front of the sign and all you could really see was the help wanted sign. So, they don't even have the line full of people. No hiring.
    89:56
    I mean, hey, and I understand. I went and got Taco Bell a few days ago and they gave me a little thing to apply. I'm like, did I work that desperate? But maybe I did. so you know everyone's hurting right now to try and deal with that sort of scenario but like nothing jjp is doing is making me think that they're outputting games at a sufficient quantity to keep up with the existing demand that that is pending and as much talk as that company has made they have never affected and they're not the only ones we could talk about american pinball talking up how they're going to do two games a year and they still haven't put out one for this year, but I mean, not to be overly snarky, but I think that he's going to be a slow burn only because of the production issues. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to get him trained. No. I think if this is a mentorship, junior designer type role, then we had been talking in the Discord that it was, does J.J.P. now have more designers than Stern? And because Stern has, well, who does Stern have? Stern has Brian Eddy, has Keith. As John Borg.
    91:03
    Is there any junior designers we're unaware of? That's the question. Is that it? Are they employees or are they contractors?
    91:11
    Stern will do a contract. You know, like how Nordman came in for Elvira. That was a contract gig. You could quasi-count Gomez, I suppose. But I really think he's so busy with leadership of the design teams that unless there's a fire that needs him to design, I just don't think that he really has the time for it. but maybe he helps out people.
    91:34
    Yeah, there is somebody that people are assuming is now a designer at Stern that's never been announced, and yeah. Oh, Jack? Yeah, Jack. Again, I don't know if he's been brought on or if it's just a contract thing and how much help he, you know, that's an interesting one, just because most of the time designers either have a background in doing their own design work or come from sort of like an engineering school of thought, and I don't think he's either of those.
    92:01
    But with a tutelage, you can journeyman your way through, I think. I don't know the background of Mark, but obviously Mark just got hired on because he's proven himself with his homebrew. Well, that's something that even way back was, I think, didn't, if I'm remembering correctly, didn't Dennis Nordman note that? That was sort of how he got his start is he kind of threw, he built his own game and sent it, sent the idea, showed the idea off and got picked up. I think John Norris did similar. So that was the way. This is the way.
    92:32
    You're telling us what we all need to do is make a homebrew and then go to the – A good homebrew. A good homebrew? Yeah. Okay. I don't think just throwing anything together is going to get – I don't know if you can honey factory your way into Stern. I mean, I'm kind of picturing myself just getting a play field and taking it to one of these shows and finding the Stern booth and just throwing it down and being like, here, look at this. I mean, the closest example that most of us who haven't been around as long as David Fix would expect would be Scott Denisey at TNA, right? I still remember the TPF I went to when I played that Whitewood. And Tony, my Eclectic Gamers podcast co-host, and I both played it, and we both thought that was game of the show. It was just so much fun. It was so refreshing to see a single level and thus have a different layout than what we're used to with the ramps and stuff. And then the next year when Spooky had their build copies available, I know Tony picked it again. It's still his favorite game that he played at the entire place. I think I gave something to a bigger manufacturer. But, I mean, it was neat to see someone do that, kind of prove it. And then in that case, it was fun because we saw that game come to fruition as a production run. Of course, we kind of saw somewhere with Keith Elwin and Archer. And there's a lot of that Archer DNA in Iron Maiden. Joel, what are you trying to do here? I didn't know how many R's are in the arcade. This is what I was saying. This is a lot of R's. That's a lot of R's. They're one of the mic-licking streams at first.
    94:09
    That's how I earn my bits now. So, I mean, this guy has shown, I think, like every step of him making this game. And he's doing some interesting stuff with the back box. But it's pretty impressive. I've never seen this game flipped before. Where's the art? I don't see any colors popping. The worst art since Queen. Like, he has something that goes on with this too? The worst art since Queen? Well, that's how I earn my bits now. Oh, licking the mic. I help design every game I do. I'm better at game developing, but for each game I wear many hats. That's awesome, Dwight.
    94:47
    I don't know. I mean, this guy's got quite a resume, though. I mean, he's got hours and hours and hours of footage to show the resume off.
    94:56
    What's his name? The guy that's done the Sonic, the spin ball. Like, that's a pretty impressive game that that guy's made. So, Ryan McQuid or something is his name.
    95:10
    So, those are pretty lights. Did you like those? I don't know. I prefer non-color changing. Non-color changing? we call them regular balls I'm not a big fan of color changing GI I think it results in people turning the lights down and off too much for effect instead of GI should be to let you see that's why it's called general illumination so you never you want the GI on 100% of the time yeah Ryan McQuaid yeah I'm happy for this guy I can only imagine as somebody that has spent that many hours of his life developing his own arcade game to get a call from a major manufacturer and be like, hey, you want to come in for an interview? I can't.
    96:02
    That's got to be a pretty cool feeling for sure. So Dennis probably prefers incandescent lights. No, they're wasteful and generate too much heat.
    96:13
    Yeah. This is pretty cool. I don know anything else about the guy I know he rated my channel a few times which I always appreciate but I just as a designer I think this has to be a pretty amazing feeling This is a video game theme I doubt they going to take it to Nintendo Why do you doubt Metroid's one of the biggest known gaming licenses that exists? I mean, it goes way back to the past. It does. But I'm saying I doubt that they're going to call up Nintendo with this game and say, like, hey, I mean. Why not? What do you hate about the game that makes you think it can't do that? Well, I don't know. There's nothing I hate. I mean, obviously, J.J.P. is going to make it there. So, like, this back box doesn't look anything like a normal back box. He did this infinity mirror look. I don't think J.J.P. is going to take that on. Okay, so the back box gets a little modified. But, you know, Spooky had to make changes to TNA. True. They weren't going to do star rollovers. No one believes in those anymore. We saw star rollovers. Was it Walking Dead? Walking Dead. No, there's a star rollover in Avengers. There's one in Avengers, too. Yeah, back. Avengers 2020. Those are really cool Star Wars rollovers, too, because they're all self-contained. I don't know if you've ever taken one out, but they're interesting. I haven't. Anyway, we don't need to go into Star Wars. We're terrible.
    97:31
    Well, we were talking about why you didn't believe in Metroid. No, I'm a fan. So Nintendo-wise, yes, there's some incredible Nintendo properties out there. We've talked about this before. Do you want them to do Mario and have Chris Pratt do the call-outs? Oh, boy.
    97:48
    I mean, Yoshi, get up there. Don't bite me. You're a good Mario. Your Yoshi is really good, Dennis. Your Yoshi is legit.
    97:58
    What's your Yoshi sound like? I haven't heard it. It sounds just like it. Yoshi! It's perfect. It's so good.
    98:08
    I mean, yes, Mario is obviously a huge theme. Zelda. Huge theme. Right. I mean, but Metroid I think is a solid theme. Mario. We want Mario.
    98:21
    Yeah, it's Subway. Subway's for days and we can wait five to ten seconds for balls to come out because there's no staging. Oh, wait. Sorry. I was going to mix stuff with the serial killer themes. Did you know, Dennis, that Halloween was originally supposed to be Mario? No. It was supposed to be John Wick. I had no idea. Well, John Wick really is the Mario of the modern era. Metroid is a great theme for pinball, especially the ball form of Samus. Correct. Yeah. It's a me, Chris Pratt. Yeah.
    98:52
    Travis, as somebody who routes games, would you buy a Super Mario pin, sight unseen? Absolutely. Guaranteed moneymaker right there. Guaranteed moneymaker. I consistently talk to people that they say Super Mario Brothers is their biggest earner or one of their bigger earners. Like it earns right next to Sterns. We had an area op. He got one. Someone loaned it to him, I guess, you know, let him route one of their personal games. And the tournament players were not thrilled. In fact, there was one who, in protest, refused to play in any tournaments at that location until that game was pulled. But the game was a decent earner. And actually what was done for the tournaments is the operator put additional flipper rubbers on the left flipper and made it like this bulky, fat flipper so that you could not easily repeat the ramp. That's how he made the ramp harder, was he made the flipper worse. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Basically, yeah. Only while we were playing tournament, though. Then it went back to normal for the kids. We had a location here that they really wanted to become, like, the tournament location. And they had a Super Mario and they had a Space Jam. And they got such complaints from their tournament players because of those two games that they pulled them. Even though they were two best earners, they just really wanted to focus on the tournaments. but they were like the operator was like I hate it so much I hate those games so much but boy did they make me money. Space Jam and Super Mario and Mario wasn't the top earner at the location but it was in the top half I think a modern take with Super Mario or I say a modern take on a modern pen I think it would be one of the best themes in the past decade Mario? Oh yeah, well if Stern or Jersey Jack or somebody was able to actually get the license because of course Nintendo they're pretty stingy with that license overall but if someone was able to get that I firmly believe it would be one of the bigger themes in the past decade for anybody I mean it's timeless everybody knows what Mario is everybody does All the mainline games are hits that come out. I mean, Odyssey was a huge hit for the Switch. Same with Zelda. They're all hits. Yep. And now it's going to get even bigger because the new movie coming out, I mean, it's a whole other generation that if they haven't played Mario, they're going to know what it is. That's the voice of Mario, if you were wondering. That's what the guy looks like.
    101:41
    He did voice the Gottlieb version. Oh, boy. Because he didn't get paid for it. Zach said, and that's what the chat's asking right now, which would you prefer then, Mario or Harry Potter?
    101:54
    Purely on the owner. Mario. I also think it's a better pick. It actually touches more generations of people is why.
    102:04
    I think you could probably do more with Harry Potter just because of the overall lore that would lead it, I guess, a play-filled design and a rule set. But in terms of just sheer marketability and the ability to get coin drop and the ability to get more people involved in it, I think Mario is where to go. And the thing with Harry Potter is, now some of it, it's a great theme. I don't want to dismiss that it would be. If anyone had the ability to do Harry Potter, I would say definitely do it. It's just, yeah, you have story, but you're going to be, people are going to want you to tell the story of the films or the books with that. And with Mario, there would be a lot more acceptance into just giving you the feel of the Mario world. And you'd be actually allowed to do a lot more creativity. Everyone thinks Harry Potter would work well because it's magic. And pinball people lap up that magic crap like crazy. That's why you always see all these, like, desires for J-pop to do more theater-style games. It's just this, oh, the magic of the ball, world under glass. I'm so amazed. I didn't know it was going to pop out of a subway because I'm an idiot.
    103:14
    But, Dennis, that left ramp was pretty magical on Raza. Oh, man. Dwight, I mean, I know Dwight is a huge Harry Potter fan. I think he's picking Harry Potter. But Dwight's asking Mario or Pokemon, which one's going to get more plays. they're both so big but Nintendo doesn't control Pokemon is the thing so they're kind of separate in a way what do you mean they don't it's a separate entity there's a different company that owns Pokemon they just put them out on Nintendo products oh I didn't know that yeah it's like called the Pokemon company I think okay it's Pokemon I feel like I've been pronouncing it wrong my entire life what Pokemon like the E's in A we didn't say Pokemon no one's going to say Pokemon I didn't want to turn a thing again Travis says Pokemon alright so clearly topic number three here everybody's wondering what that is and so are we Dennis Debates Is there anything we want to debate?
    104:31
    Anything in chat? This was a dumb topic to put here. This was a dumb topic, but believe it or not, I like alliteration, and we didn't think of a third topic. Well, I do approve of your alliteration. I try and do that a lot, too. Thank you.
    104:43
    What would be something Dennis debates is why I'm here is what Dwight said. Dwight, do you have something for Dennis? Do you need a hot take from Dennis? And the reality is somebody may disagree with him.
    104:54
    Who would disagree with me? Only I can defeat Creasel in a debate. That's Zach. Anything, any questions at all? Somebody asked something earlier about Mando compared to Godzilla. I guess something that was said on EPS. I didn't catch it. Did you guys talk about that, Dennis? Something about Mando compared to Godzilla? I don't remember. I'm sorry. And it could have just as easily been Greg Bone. He's been on a couple times recently with the Godzilla. Yeah. How about fan-ish layouts? Fan-ish? There is no fan-ish, right, Dennis? I actually use that expression. Fan-ish? Yeah. Like when I saw Queen, my reaction was, oh, that's a fan-ish layout. The lower flipper accessibility and spread of the shots is much of what you'd expect with a fan layout, but the upper play field with the flipper clearly disqualifies it from being a true fan. So you know what we decided to call those types of layouts? No, I don't know what you decided.
    105:53
    You want me to tell you? No, I want to live in ignorance forever. He's all sharp, though. This is his theory. He was calling them dynamic layouts. What? I was like, okay, that makes sense. If it's not a true fan layout, it becomes a dynamic layout. I think the argument was one of the pins. I think it's Medieval Madness, actually. He was arguing it's not a fan layout. It's a dynamic layout. What makes it dynamic?
    106:23
    I guess that the shots aren't perfectly symmetrical. Well, but almost none are perfectly. Like, every shot is, you know, 2.8 millimeters from the next shot. In his world, there would be no fan layout at all. This is Josh Sharp, though. If we got him on here and you guys debate it, we could leave, and we'll be back here by morning time. So what I mean, well, thankfully he's not here. He's wrong. But he's wrong. He's mistaken. Is the Cactus Canyon remade, is the marking materials going to label it as a dynamic layout now that Josh is involved? That's what I'm wondering. That's what you're wondering? Yeah.
    107:01
    What are you bringing this scene for? Why do we got to look at this? Because this is what I, so this is, he said fan-ish. And I see what you're saying here. I mean, all the shots are boop, boop, boop, boop, but there happens to be one. And that's generally what I look for is a two-flipper layout, and the shots should be mid and further back. Ideally, they should be towards the back of the playfield. Give you a lot of time to recover is sort of what you expect from a fan layout. And there's flexibility to a degree. What about Mando? A third flipper disqualifies, just disqualifies. What about Mando? Mando's a fan, but they're not two-thirds of the way back.
    107:39
    Mando's not a fan. The upper playfield clearly kills that concept. There's not even a point to look at the rest of the layout. It's not fan. Is it dynamic? Yes, it's very dynamic. Dynamic.
    107:52
    Super dynamic. What do you call a layout like Deadpool, then? Like, is it just fan or not, or do we have other layouts? Genius. No, I mean, it's not that everything with two flippers is automatically a fan. So, for example, one of the things that I would say when I look at Deadpool, and I don't think fan layout is, you don't have all the shots towards the back of the playfield. That whole drop target, little Deadpool section completely kills the ability for that to work in the same way like a medieval madness where there are things that will stop a ball in a fan layout game like the castle in medieval madness, but the castle's pretty far back. Your disruptions that exist in the lower part of the playfield consist of the occasional troll that pops up. That's pretty much it. So here's your debate. The one, the only Dwight Sullivan is saying Mando is a fan. The two upper flippers are part of a toy onto itself. He's not counting that.
    108:51
    Well, as a non-designer, he was clearly wrong and mistaken. And then Zach comes in here saying Deadpool's a fan layout for sure. What? No. It's not. Travis is like oh come on this is where Zach just makes up stuff to try and act like he knows stuff about pinball Zach is saying what shot isn't what shot in Deadpool is not I've already explained that there's too much close for the flippers because of the little Deadpool section that eliminates it from being a fan entrances are all part of direct fan come on this is I feel like this is the conversation you guys are going to have on Sunday. It's coming up. No, we won't. Just shoot it down.
    109:43
    Proximity to Flipper has nothing to do with fan. Dennis is dead wrong here. You thought about saying something, Dennis, but you're not even going to entertain it. I see. No, I was thinking about mentioning, you know, Zach tried to have this conversation. And you might remember, like, there was like a mini eruption on Pennside where Zach just said some really outlandish things about fan layouts. And it just, it was one of those things where he wanted to act like he knew what he was talking about. And so he just started making stuff up. It kind of reminds me of when we were going over the achievements for Led Zeppelin. And you could tell that the presenter didn't really know anything about the game. Airplane modes, come on. Is that the one where Zach called the Avengers fan layout? Yeah, Zach's already apologizing for it. I was wrong on Avengers, okay? I missed a shot. I am right here. And, yeah, Dwight's turning in here. Okay, I'm not listening. Why is Deadpool fans cannot be close to Flipper? Normal Dennis is more correct than Zach, but not this time. So it's not just the idea of the folding fan, which, and that gets weird, too, because, you know, depending on how you spread a folding fan determines where those shots, how close they are to each other. That's why it doesn't have to be perfect, like how Josh may have been. I didn't hear Josh's statement, but that may be. He didn't say it had to be perfect. I think he was just talking about the play field or the shots being symmetrical is what he was talking about. And to me, and again, my interpretation, but to me, that is not a necessary requirement because in a true folding fan, depending on how far you've folded it out, you could have the right side more spread than the left. The point is that those shots should be towards the back of the playfield so that assuming you have completion, something happens at that point. There's usually no disruption between you and whatever that shot path is, be it an orbit or a ramp or a bash toy if it's in the back, and it must be to Flipper. And that's where I know most of the people who disagree with me on fans. To me, no fear is not a fan layout because of that upper playfield. Sorry. But a lot of people will say, nope, no fear is the exception. That proves the rule. And we'll call it a fan layout even with the flipper in the upper section, which allows you to do the loops. But fan-ish layouts like Stern Star Trek, all the shots towards the back of the play field, but the warp ramp disqualifies it from being a true fan. You cannot access that shot from one of the lower flippers.
    112:17
    So that's disqualified for that reason. You have to use that upper flipper to be able to do that. But just having the flippers. Let's look at Steve Bowden's definition. Hobbit's a good one. Hobbit would be a fan layout, except for that worthless third flipper. And it's extra frustrating because that third flipper doesn't need to exist. But it does, so I only call it fan-ish. I won't call it a fan. What's Steve Bowden's like? I try to keep these definitions pure.
    112:44
    Are you trying to do the pinball dictionary? That's what it is, pinball dictionary. That's right. It's not in there. Fan layout? I don't think it's in there. Dennis had it removed.
    112:56
    I thought it was funny to say it'll be in there when I decide it will go in. That sounds really snotty, so I won't say it. It's in Fun With Bonus. That's what it is, Fun With Bonus. That's what I kind of think of.
    113:10
    Oh, boy. New Pinball Dictionary. Oh, my God, you're not going to click it. Oh, there you go. Give me one second. NewPinballDictionary.com. It's its own site. Wait, it didn't go to it. pinballdictionary.org let's try that no it's the same website taking this from us too ah dang it alright so I thought it was clear I thought a fan layout means you're just a fan of the layout wasn't didn't somebody think that one time oh my god uh it's not on here no it's not I told you this ten minutes ago he doesn't listen Dennis that's what happened yeah but I thought it was a complete joke I thought it was a complete joke I can't believe it's not on here. Butter Flippers is. Butter Flippers is on there, but not. Of course Butter Flippers is on there. What are Butter Flippers? What does that even mean?
    114:01
    Example. A term is used to describe various kinds of flipper errors, especially on occasions where the player would usually be able to control the ball, but somehow does not. So a ball rolling off the edge of the flipper.
    114:12
    Butter Flippers. Butter Flipper. I'm glad we have a definition for that, but no definition. That is your new nickname. Butter Flipper. Oh, so I'm moving on from Num Nuts. Great. Okay. It's not in there. That's why Dennis and I were defining it on the pinball show. Then Dennis was angered when I had to find the fan layout.
    114:31
    Oh, boy. I wasn't – well, I was annoyed. And it wasn't – it was because he was trying to define it on the fly.
    114:42
    I don't know. It was just so disrespectful. It's sort of a hobby. Disrespectful. Like, I don't know, I don't think the pinball dictionary has Italian bottom defined. I worked really hard writing up an article on Italian bottoms. And so could you imagine doing that work and then someone just coming in and deciding they're just going to redefine it on you? That's not how it works. Whoever writes the article first wins. That's how pinball works.
    115:09
    It doesn't have it. So whoever writes it first, so yeah, no go. Icarus round? That and middle pop or center pop games. I have a thing defining that, too.
    115:23
    But I have not written up anything on fan. I figured everyone knew it. But then I heard that it was popular layouts, and I facepalmed, and I heard people telling me Avengers was a fan layout, and I double facepalmed.
    115:41
    What? There's a pop in the middle? or is Zach now arguing middle pop? Those are the ones where you've got the pop bumper at the flipper level, down like between the flippers. Oh, got it, got it, got it. There's a whole thread on Pinside about those sort of center pop style games, and oh, it got vicious. There were some people that just wanted to define that in the weirdest ways.
    116:06
    Windraider Joe said, neither fan layout or Italian bottom have been defined in Urban Dictionary yet. That's true. Urban Dictionary.
    116:15
    I'm very surprised about Italian Bottom not being in it. Very true. Well, we are approaching midnight. I don't know, is there anything else? This is midnight Eastern Standard Time. I know we were arguing earlier on Discord. Apparently, there are people that are very adamant about the best time zone, which I think is an interesting argument. I don't know, Dennis, if you want to debate time zones now. I know how much you love those. Well, it's not midnight Eastern Standard Time. It's midnight Eastern Daylight Time. Oh, boy. Central, it's a fact. Okay, Dwight and Zach are both on board with Central. Wow. All right.
    116:50
    And technically, well, you know, I would normally argue it because one could easily claim I'm biased because I live in Central Time. But given the capital of pinball is in Central Time, if we were to pick a time zone around pinball, would it not be that? Central? Yeah. Well, I mean, think of all the manufacturers that are based in Central. called Stern, Spooky, JJP is now, Deep Root. Oh, I see what you did there.
    117:19
    Central, okay. So what I'm hearing is all pinball media, if you're going to ever establish a time, it doesn't matter where you are, the majority of pinball is Central, so we just got to base it off Central. That's what I'm hearing.
    117:32
    I'm saying that that would be a logical approach if you wanted to do it. But East Coast is popular. I don't have any problem using East Coast. So next time Haggis reveals a pin, I need to advertise it in central time?
    117:45
    Yes. Okay, yes. All right, good. Glad we could knock that out, yeah. Chicago is the capital. You are right, Dwight. Well, everyone, I don't know. Let's go around real quick. If you want to have any closing thoughts, anything else, Craig, I feel like you've been ready to talk about something. I can tell. You look great. Are you in Atlantic? No, Eastern. Okay. It's a good time zone. I like it. Yeah, the first time zone. First.
    118:13
    First of all time zones. First, you're last. Craig, we should, not to put you on the spot, we should, if you're on, we should just have like a Craig wrap-up, you know, like your final thoughts, Craig, you know. No, it was a great stream, a lot of interesting discussions. I'm learning a lot, you know. I haven't been in the hobby for five years, so I'm trying to learn. You're there, buddy. We're doing a ramp. We're doing the next two weeks, midweek edition, Craig. Well, you know, I'm going to go back in time. I do have some stuff that I recorded a while back that I have to get edited, and there might be a log or something like that that comes out, you know, like a backlog. Well, we have some little flipper reactions that have not happened, right? She's a few pinball machines behind. She is, and she's very upset at me, actually. She's like, Dan, have you done that in Mandalorian? Yeah, have you done the Mandalorian? and I'm like, no, I haven't done it. She goes, what the heck? We recorded that so long ago. Oh, you even recorded it? Oh, boy. Oh, you burned your little flipper. Yeah, yeah. So she's not happy with me right now. What about your little toil stop? Because she's broken now.
    119:23
    Wow. Oh, boy. Yeah, all right. Well, now that we're... That's awesome. Stay tuned. It could be any day. I'm going to be, you know... Working it. Yeah. Exactly. Well, I'm still ahead of American Pinball's next release, I figure, so, you know. Well, American Pinball is an expo. Expo, right? Expo is the rumor? That's what they're saying. Is it two games at Expo? Just one. The rumor mill is you will have to wait. No, it's one. You'll have to wait. Who do you think it's going to be? I think it's Sherlock Holmes. I'm pretty sure. Well, they kept the licenses going, so that one makes a lot of sense. but I thought I had heard some rumor buzz that they might have been doing the Legends of Valhalla as a formal run for that one crew that tried to do it a few years ago. That seems so odd to me, though. But right now, anything will sell that has slippers on it. So you don't actually, you know, what might not have been good enough to sell 100 units in 2017 probably could sell 200 now, as long as you find the parts to make it. Dwight, they're talking about American Pinball. What company are we speculating on? Yeah. Yeah, American Timberwolves. I like your Sherlock guess, Travis. I'll put my money behind that horse. And the Sherlock. That's what I'm doing. Good job, detective. World's second greatest detective. Thank you. Nordman, of course.
    120:49
    Nordman's number one. He always is. I'll learn. I'll go in and tell you which companies are going to betray us and not make any pens and only make pots. I could have swore on a Loser Kid podcast from a couple of months ago when they had one of the Expo organizers on there I could have swore that he had mentioned something about games being announced at Expo from pinball manufacturers that nobody knew existed yet just swore I heard that there's been a guy who's been in the deep right on Pinside he's a Canadian so Craig Crowley is neighbors with him because you all live close to each other and he used to do he was the one who used to do the playfields who did the Stargazer run I don't know him but I remember there was drama involving Mirko and his company where he, Mirko pretended to have the license from Gary Stern to do Stern Electronics and did a C&D on the guy who then called Gary and found out no I never gave this guy exclusive rights to do Stargazer so anyway, I'm rambling and he has been repeatedly saying that in 2022 There were going to be multiple startups coming out of the shadows and announcing that they were going to make pinball.
    122:05
    Yeah, Tommy Hypercoaster said, yeah, Rob definitely said there would be three announced at Expo. Not going to happen, though. And then Zach did mention, Dennis, you did the Norman voice without your mask on. So your identity is, you know. Compromised. Yeah. Maybe this is my mask. Single side tear.
    122:27
    Who releases the game first, do you think? Do you think it'll be Jersey Jack or American Pinball? I think American. I think American's coming at Expo.
    122:38
    I think if, yeah, I think American does a reveal at Expo. I think maybe, yeah, no, I would say surely Chicago Gaming's going to have playable, not Lyman Josh's enhanced code, but the original Cactus code. Surely they're finally going to bring one out for people to, because most people have never played that game.
    123:01
    You've got people online talking about like it's an A-tier game, so they clearly haven't played it. It's okay. I would put it B-tier. I'd put it up with Shadow and Dracula, but I wouldn't put it with an AFM.
    123:17
    It's nowhere near on those levels. Kaz is an American Pinball news correspondent, and he's saying American Pinball Game 4 is on the line right now. Really? Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, there's our answer. It'll come out before Jersey got it. I think Ampin's been pretty much putting all their eggs in that they had to get something at Expo. Yeah. How many are they making of it?
    123:40
    Do we know? I don't think American Pinball has limited any of their games. Yeah, they don't officially do limits. I'm almost going to bet they might do it on this one. On Sherlock? Why?
    123:54
    just because they want to move on to the next game? The spooky model. That's a good point. I mean, you see how the FOMO works with the LE runs. I mean, look how smart it was for Stern with the 1,000 Godzillas, even at the increased price point. It was still day one sold out. So it's, you know, the business sense. Zach's saying they better do a limit on Valhalla or if they want to sell them all.
    124:20
    Yeah, if it's another unlicensed. Well, I mean, I know Sherlock is unlicensed, but it's a theme. If it's another Oktoberfest-esque thing, they really need to try and just scare people with a limit to buy, because it'll be Slack Day. I mean, I'm trying to think of what other awful holidays we could do.
    124:44
    All right, so let's see here. Kaz says not Sherlock. Hyper says fixed said. AP is doing a deluxe edition that will be more limited. All right. American Pinball Deluxe.
    124:56
    Joel, what are you looking at? Insanity Falls says, look at Joel. The only one who doesn't turn on the lights in the background. Biggest flex on screen. The lights are on. Oh, I don't have my lights on my pinball machine on. That's what. Yes. So my basement is currently under construction. That's one reason why we've been doing these chat shows. So I don't have electrical outlets. This is all plugged in with an extension cord. But, yeah, flex. Sure. he's also the one posing in front of the most expensive games yeah got TNA got Hot Wheels and Turtles look at all modern all LCD well I mean the other two are all just and showing a lot of manufacturing diversity so that's very politician of you yep this one by the way given to me by flipping out pinball there's your plug Turtles is the best you know Dwight you know it's not going anywhere alright well the blinky ones I mean Travis does have the Avengers LE in the background so yeah but he's blurred it I couldn't tell what that is it's leaving pretty soon too what?
    126:02
    you're selling it? gotta make room I didn't think I would do it but after seeing Godzilla I was like okay I think I can do this so you're selling that for Godzilla LE okay well Monica said she won a Godzilla LE too so happy life alright Godzilla does look pretty good Godzilla is pretty great is what Dwight's saying that's high praise I don't know if I want to pack up Super Orbit I'll have to take the hat off to get that back in the garage to sell that's going to be a pain because that thing is just a little too wide for the door frame Travis has already beat Avengers True yeah you beat it Many times but Alright well Dennis appreciate you man Thank you for coming on Thank you for staying up late and giving me a hard time Really appreciate that I'm very tired I got an 8.30 call tomorrow too So this is going to be great Well you've warned us all no calls after 4 o'clock in the afternoon And this is way after But I appreciate that It's because I get overly snarky once we get past 4 Yeah I appreciate that And then Travis, obviously, appreciate you being on here as well. So thanks a ton.
    127:18
    Well, I think we're going to have to shut it down. Like I said, it's a little after midnight. But luckily now, being that it's after midnight, we have a great person to raid. The one and the only Don't Panic Flip. Don't panic. Also on CPN. So we're going to head that way. But, yeah, Zach, appreciate you, man. Thank you for not only flipping on stream. If you guys need anything, feel free to reach out to Zach and Nicole.
    127:39
    And then Dwight, yeah, Zachary's been in chat all night as well. So thank you for the conversation, everybody.
    127:47
    Yeah, anybody else have anything to say? When's the next one? Oh, great point. My wedding anniversary is next week, so I am taking next Wednesday off, but we'll probably be looking at the week after that. But, yeah, I'm enjoying these a lot, and my basement is not done yet, so we'll do another one of these real soon. But, yeah, appreciate you three. Everybody have a great night. I'm going to start the wedding here. Thanks, Joe. and feel free to head that way say hi to George for me have a great night watching him play Stranger Things and yeah hopefully we'll catch everybody again really soon are you doing the raid Joel? the raid is going right now boom and alright and bye everyone