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Episode 120 - Video Game Themes

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 21m·analyzed·Jul 27, 2020
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TL;DR

Eclectic Gamers explores creative video game themes for pinball machines with mechanical design concepts.

Summary

Tony and Dennis discuss hypothetical video game adaptations into pinball machines, exploring creative themings and mechanical designs for franchises like Doom, Diablo, Hollow Knight, and shmup-inspired concepts. They debate feasibility across platforms (traditional vs. P3), discuss design philosophy (modes, progression, competitive elements), and develop detailed mechanical concepts including pachinko ball 'enemy fire' systems and 4X-style progressive playfield unlocking. The episode is sponsor-supported by the Roanoke Pinball Museum.

Key Claims

  • Lovecraft/cosmic horror themes would work well for pinball machines

    high confidence · Dennis and Tony agree Lovecraftian content would be 'obviously a very good topic for a pinball machine with that kind of dark horror going on'

  • Doom could work as a fast-paced, hurry-up heavy pinball game with a metal soundtrack superior to Black Knight

    medium confidence · Tony suggests 'Doom could be a good title' with 'everything being hurry up based' given the game's fast pace; Dennis agrees the soundtrack would be 'more metal than Black Knight's'

  • Diablo 2 would be the best game to base a Diablo pinball on, with Baal as the final boss/wizard mode

    medium confidence · Dennis states Diablo 2 is 'generally of the fans of the series, that's usually the one they cite as the best' and references Baal as final boss in the sequence: 'Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, Diablo, then Ball'

  • Simulation games like SimCity would be difficult to adapt to pinball without the P3 platform

    high confidence · Dennis explains that simulation games 'are so directly built around building and modifying stuff that a static playfield I don't think would actually work for it. But what about on the P3? Possibly'

  • A 4X-style pinball game with progressive unlocking of playfield shots based on exploration/expansion mechanics would be feasible and novel

    medium confidence · Hosts develop detailed concept where 'start with a limited number of point shots' and 'as you complete requirements for the Explore Mode, it will open up more sections of the machine,' with player choice affecting which shots unlock and point values

  • Hollow Knight and Ori and the Blind Forest would work well as pinball themes due to strong visual aesthetics and no voice acting requirements

    medium confidence · Tony notes 'there's a really good aesthetic. Like, artistically, it could look great. you don't need a lot in the way of like who you have doing call outs isn't relevant' for both titles

  • A shmup-inspired pinball game using pachinko balls as 'enemy fire' would be mechanically feasible

    medium confidence · Hosts develop detailed concept with 'pachinko balls' on 'conveyor belt that's feeding back up to the top,' rotating up-kickers for directional fire patterns mimicking boss patterns, with pinballs bullying through smaller pachinko balls at cost of trajectory/power

Notable Quotes

  • “There's only one rule that I have. You cannot suggest Satisfactory or I will drive out there and slap the taste out of your mouth.”

    Tony @ ~15:00 — Humorous but firm boundary-setting about game suggestions, revealing Tony's obsession with Satisfactory (42 hours in two weeks)

  • “I'm trying to reach for some unusual stuff that you don't normally – you know, everyone hears about Mario and Halo and all that. I'm trying to come up with some other stuff.”

    Tony @ ~38:00 — Explains the episode's strategic focus on non-obvious game franchises for pinball adaptation

  • “I think that would be really... Actually, that's my favorite idea so far. I think that would be just because it's so different for pinball.”

    Dennis @ ~49:00 — Dennis endorses the 4X progressive unlocking concept as the most novel and interesting proposal of the episode

  • “It would be loud as hell, though. Oh, man, would it? You thought people complained about dimpling now.”

    Dennis @ ~71:00 — Humorous acknowledgment that hundreds of pachinko balls firing would create unprecedented noise complaints

  • “We just need the plate that points it to move... Yeah. Well, we know from TNA that they can fire really fast.”

    Tony/Dennis @ ~68:00 — Technical discussion of up-kicker mechanics feasibility, referencing Tales from the Crypt's coil speed capabilities

Entities

TonypersonDennispersonKeith ElwinpersonZach MinneypersonRoanoke Pinball MuseumorganizationEclectic Gamers PodcastorganizationDoomgameDiablo 2game

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Podcast received listener feedback requesting video game-focused episode follow-up to prior books-as-themes segment; episode addresses community input directly

    high · Tony: 'before you even recorded the last episode, I had someone write in and ask about us doing this segment, about doing a segment specific to video games that could be turned into good pinball machines'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Reference to Keith Elwin as benchmark for elite pinball player skill level; used to evaluate theoretical difficulty ceiling for hypothetical rhythm game adaptation

    medium · 'I don't even think Keith Elwin could S rank those' in context of Guitar Hero-style timing requirements on pinball

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Debate over feasibility of rhythm game adaptations (Guitar Hero/Rock Band); Dennis argues timing-based pinball gameplay is fundamentally incompatible with rhythm game mechanics

    medium · Dennis: 'you couldn't do it. Unlike Tetris, where you could slow things down... it couldn't be just hit the notes in the right timing with the pinball. That's way too... I don't even think Keith Elwin could S rank those'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of progressive playfield unlocking in 4X-style game where player choices determine which shots unlock and scoring structure, creating personalized playstyles based on player strengths

    high · Dennis develops concept where 'depending upon the way you unlock that left ramp it sets up either the kind of points or the kind of locks' allowing players to 'tailor each game to more suit your personal play style'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.243

0:00
This episode of the Eclectic Gamers podcast is brought to you by the Roanoke Pinball Museum in Roanoke, Virginia. The Roanoke Pinball Museum is an interactive museum dedicated to the science and history of pinball. Their mission is to cultivate curiosity in science, art, and history through pinball while preserving and honoring its role in American culture. The museum is open every day except Monday and houses over 65 machines with models ranging from 1932 to 2018. Roanoke Pinball Museum. And now, the weather.
0:47
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamer Podcast. Today is Sunday, July 26th. This is episode 120. I'm Tony. And I'm Dennis. I'm not alone this week People can stay around Hey there was lots of feedback On your prior episode And we'll be touching a little bit on that In a bit but yeah I had a big off of my shows A couple weeks ago Tony knew I had some minor surgery A couple days before and I was just way too Tired to want to sit And do a bunch of recording So I don't want to do it And Tony was like I know exactly what I'm going to do. Don't worry about a thing.
1:30
Fake it till you make it. So anything happen since those? Are you recovered from your poison oak? For the most part, I'm still a little itchy. I've finished my run of medication. But yeah, I'm going to have some scarring. I'm going to have some pretty heavy scarring on my legs.
1:53
Uh-oh. Well, there goes your modeling career Yeah, I'll figure something out I still have a good Career as a Before model Yeah, there you go Yeah, that's the ticket Well, I'm mostly recovered But I haven't been doing a whole lot I did stream some Walking Dead This last week on our EGP Twitch channel And I've been playing But not in the last week really But the week before game. It's like an artsy game called Coffee Talk, where I have to make lattes for people. I think it's mostly supposed to be like a visual novel, but they make you figure out how to make coffee, which I have no knowledge of. Interesting. They're like, make me an espresso. Then they start trying to have you make weird crap, and they don't even tell you what all's in it. It's like, okay. It's odd. I don't know. It was a free-to-play. It was a game with gold thing on Xbox, so I just grabbed it and it's like okay i didn't feel like uh doing a twitch shooter or something so that's what i ended up with and that's been my my period of time well that's interesting yeah now speaking of interesting we can go right into the pinball segment and i thought we should start with uh you've had a lot of follow-up because you talked about books that could theme well into pinball machines i would say that yeah there's been a fair amount of follow-up on that like suggested books. I just thought, was there any like, uh, series that you didn't touch on during the episode that people threw out there that you wanted to say, Hey, that's a good idea publicly, or, Hey, I heard about this and it's a stupid idea. Now I must burn it in front of all of you.

  • Guitar Hero/Rock Band style rhythm pinball would not work due to timing requirements incompatible with pinball mechanics

    high confidence · Dennis states 'you couldn't do it. Unlike Tetris, where you could slow things down... it couldn't be just hit the notes in the right timing with the pinball. That's way too... I don't even think Keith Elwin could S rank those'

    • Hollow Knight
    game
    Ori and the Blind Forestgame
    Satisfactorygame
    Titanfall 2game
    Shantae: Half-Genie Herogame
    Castlevaniagame
    Tetrisgame
    Super Puzzle Fightergame
    Horizon Zero Dawngame
    Flash Gordongame
    Tales from the Cryptgame
    Black Knightgame
    Multimorphic P3product
    Red Alert 3game
    Coffee Talkgame

    design_innovation: Concept of using pachinko balls as 'enemy fire' in shmup-themed pinball with rotating up-kickers, conveyor belt ball returns, and boss-pattern-based firing sequences

    medium · Detailed mechanical design: 'pachinko balls' on 'conveyor belt' with rotating up-kickers fired 'one of four different ways' with 'firing pattern would be different' per boss mode, creating 'sea of silver' visual effect

  • ?

    product_strategy: 4X-style progressive unlocking concept represents novel design philosophy significantly different from standard pinball rule structures and competitive modes

    medium · Dennis explicitly states 'I think that would be really... Actually, that's my favorite idea so far. I think that would be just because it's so different for pinball'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Theoretical future pinball development exploring non-traditional game adaptations beyond movies/music licenses (4X strategy, shmup mechanics, puzzle game variants)

    low · Hosts develop detailed mechanical and rule-set concepts suggesting interest in design space exploration, though explicitly framed as hypothetical discussion rather than industry roadmap

  • ?

    technology_signal: Multiple complex game concepts (simulation, competitive variants, progressive mechanics) require or strongly benefit from Multimorphic P3 platform capabilities over traditional static playfields

    high · Hosts repeatedly return to P3 as enabler: 'what about on the P3? Possibly, if everything was set up right' and 'you'd almost, again, P3 style, save state, you know, some way to remember the progress or something would almost be mandatory'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Discussion of voice acting requirements affecting franchise viability; games with strong visual aesthetics but minimal voice needs (Hollow Knight, Ori) preferred for pinball adaptation

    medium · Tony notes regarding these titles: 'you don't need a lot in the way of like who you have doing call outs isn't relevant you're not going for a particular voice acting cast it's more about the music'

    • 3:39
    Uh, no, there's nothing huge. Uh, there were some good followup sci-fi, uh, ideas like the expeditionary force novels could be a lot of fun. And, uh, it was pointed out in an email, I don't remember who it was from right this second, is that Dresden Files, Dresden Files would make a good one. There's a lot of opportunity for fun to do with that one.
    4:06
    But yeah, no, there were a lot of good ideas. Oh, and I don't know why, I never thought of it before, but all the Lovecraft stuff would obviously be a very good topic for a pinball machine with that kind of dark horror going on.
    4:27
    Hmm. Yeah, a lot of things get described now as Lovecraftian. I don't even know if everyone knows what it means anymore.
    4:35
    Well, that's true. I think at this point it becomes pretty much anything that deals with kind of that existential horror, something out of the deep dark.
    4:49
    Cosmic horror used to be how it was described, yeah. Yeah, I think that, as I read a novel a few years ago that was very Lovecraftian, and it was about one of the great old ones being summoned to, like, Boston or something like that by a cult that had been trying for centuries and centuries to do it. And they realized that it wasn't actually possible to summon them because there were literally no way to make the correct sounds. So they made a computer that could do it. Ah.
    5:25
    And they made someone the great old one. That's what Skynet did. It's always darn Skynet. Always ruining everything. Well, I have a new theme topic that's fairly similar, and that would be video games into pinball machines. Now, we've talked about video game themes as part of just some of our other theme topics, but I don't think we've ever exclusively focused on it.
    5:49
    And the reason I think that, that I'm not positive is, actually, before you even recorded the last episode, I had someone write in and ask about us doing this segment, about doing a segment specific to video games that could be turned into good pinball machines. and I started searching our old show notes on our website. And it's like, we had a few where we talked about themes and I know we touched on video games in them, but they were usually like, just what themes would we like to see stuff? Like, you know, as you mentioned in the last episode, even where we've talked about like Overwatch before and things like that.
    6:23
    But I don't think we ever did one that was actually just exclusively focused on video games. So I thought we might as well kind of follow up on the book one and do one that was just about video games. There's only one rule that I have. You cannot suggest satisfactory or I will drive out there and slap the taste out of your mouth.
    6:41
    But your social distancing... I know, but I'll make an exception if I have to hear about let's move all the power plants into a better strategic location multiball.
    6:53
    Hmm. You know. I can see where... I know you are. I'm just But you like that game so much that I have a Suspicion you'd try and find a way I don't know what you're saying about Let me check my numbers I have only played Satisfactory For 42 Hours in the last two Yeah So good game Hey and maybe there is a way That it would work in a pinball machine I don't know. I'm a little skeptical. I bought a new game. You did? Yes. Oh. I bought it two weeks ago, and I've installed it, but I've not played it yet. Oh. Well, we don't have any idea on that game, then. Well, it's old. It's Titanfall 2. Oh, great story in that. I did not put much time in the multiplayer, though. I heard it had a good story. That's why I bought it, and then I was going to play it. And then I was thinking about, man, I really need to get a motor factory built in Satisfactory. Yeah, of course. You've got to get the motor factory. Now, you never played the original Titanfall, though.
    8:06
    No. Okay. I didn't think so. So we probably can't discuss that one as to whether or not it would really work well as a pinball machine.
    8:15
    But I'm trying to, like, what do you think about the new Spider-Man game? Could that be turned into a pinball machine? We've had Spider-Man before based off the movies. They already have the same kind of... I mean, there's no real difference between having the Spider-Man based off the movies or the Spider-Man vault with the comic art. It's still kind of the same thing. You're right. Yeah, that's stupid. I think any other Spider-Man thing would still be kind of the same thing. What about Doom? What do you think of Doom? I think Doom could be a good title. Would it all be hurry-ups? because Doom is a very fast like Doom 2016 and the newest Doom they're very fast paced I would think it makes sense for everything to be hurry up based I wonder if people would hate it though what does that matter if people would hate it we're just talking about it they can hate it all they want but here's the thing to remember we have to define that in some way well we can't go with the fact that Doom would have the greatest soundtrack in all of pinball yeah it would be more metal than Black Knight's sort of rage was. Yeah. It would be amazing. The soundtrack would be simply amazing.
    9:29
    Diablo. Oh. Hmm. Now, would you base it around a particular one? I'd probably base it around two. Okay. That's generally of the fans of the series, that's usually the one they cite as the best.
    9:48
    I can pretty old. Well, yeah, but the story, I mean, you're just using the story points so it doesn't matter that it's old. I mean,
    10:00
    with the story that that game has and with the call-outs that are already made in that, the kind of voice samples you could pull, I think you can have a lot of fun with it. Hmm. And so what would the wizard mode be? Would it be the butcher? Oh, it would be the cow level, obviously. Yes, the cow level. Butcher's way too early in the game, really, to warrant being the final wizard mode. That's true. That's quite true. I mean, it's Diablo. I think it wouldn't be Butcher. It would be final wizard mode would have to be... Diablo?
    10:40
    Is Diablo the final boss? I don't know. I never finished it. In the second one? I don't remember. It's been decades. Yeah, Diablo's in there, but Ball's actually the final boss. Okay.
    10:54
    It's Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, Diablo, then Ball. Hmm. Okay. Well, that would probably be the obvious wizard mode to do then. Yeah.
    11:06
    Huh. That's how long it's been since I've played that game. I don't remember any of it. Now, Satisfactory, would you describe that as a simulation game?
    11:16
    It is... Yeah, it's an efficiency simulator. Right. Well, I'm wondering, would any sort of simulation-style game work as a pinball machine? Like a SimCity or... I'd like to... I mean, they're fun games, but I don't think that they would actually work because they're so directly built around building and modifying stuff that a static playfield I don't think would actually work for it. But what about on the P3?
    11:50
    Possibly, if everything was set up right, which would let you do it. Yeah, I think that's a possibility.
    11:59
    I'm not necessarily sold on it. I think that's going to be the hardest of them to do, really. Because it's not a story. I don't know what the objective would be. I could imagine saying, okay, well, if you shoot this left ramp, that's what allows you to upgrade your power and if you do this it builds roads and this shot will let you put in the residential zone and stuff so I could kind of envision with a screen building the city up for example but I don't know what makes you want to do it right and I could see doing um yeah I really the whole thing would be building up to a point in the wizard mode would be destroying what you did Yeah. I think that would be... Or mitigating... Yeah, that's the other thing. The disaster's coming, you have to combat the disasters. That would be the other option. Yeah. I think you might be better off, instead of that, going with something that's a little bit more like the Red Alert games. Let's talk about that. Some of the building mechanic type thing in it, but it would still have a good storyline.
    13:11
    Okay, let's not get crazy. Good storyline might be a little strong. No, if you do Red Alert, I want it to be Red Alert 3. And you need Tim Curry. And I don't know if his health will allow him to do it at this point. That's true. Because Tim Curry was the giant ham that just chewed on the scenery in that. Yeah. Though George Takei was in that as well.
    13:36
    Well, yeah, but he didn't chew the scenery nearly as fast. He was really straight. Yeah. I mean Tim Curry was full on I'm eating a large ham Level of yeah Well he was representing the Soviets So it was for the best I still love the part Where he decides that The place for communism The next thrive is space And you can see him trying not to laugh As he says the line We just do one take for red alert Right That's my favorite It was a fun game though It was. It was. It was full on. It was like Jeremy Irons in Dungeons and Dragons. Oh, God. It wasn't that bad. Or was it? Maybe I'm being forgiving because I enjoy the game and that movie sucked. Oh. Oh, my God. Dungeons and Dragons. Now, Red Alert 3 is a strategy game, so we think about both real-time and turn-based strategies.
    14:38
    Pinball? Like, could civilization be done as pinball? Do you allow multiple ways to quote-unquote win? Like, I'm going for the diplomatic pinball victory. You know, I don't really know how you would make that work. I can't. I don't think so. I really, I mean, I'd like the idea, but I really can't think of a way to make that work. And let's be honest, if you're doing a Civilization pinball game and the game doesn't last one to six hours per ball, you're doing it wrong. Yeah, you'd almost, again, P3 style, save state, you know, some way to remember the progress or something would almost be mandatory to truly get the experience. So much so that it's probably not practical. I have a feeling in this topic of video games, and maybe it's because I'm trying to go beyond just like naming a bunch of first-person shooters and such, but I'm trying to cram a lot of round pegs into square holes. Wait, that doesn't work. How can a hole be square? Well, I guess it could be any shape you want.
    15:38
    Anyway, I'm cramming shapes that don't fit. I'm trying to reach for some unusual stuff that you don't normally – you know, everyone hears about Mario and Halo and all that. I'm trying to come up with some other stuff.
    15:49
    Shantae, half-genie hero. Shantae. Okay, well, platformer. so we could do any sort of adventure where you're going along and having to deal with what's her name? Crazy Boots?
    16:05
    Yeah. I don't remember. I don't know. She's crazy. I call her Crazy Boots. And all the weird friends and family members that Shantae has in town.
    16:18
    You could activate them for maybe like a team up thing. I don't know if you want the one dude who doesn't even know how to tie his shoes to help you, but maybe, you know, kind of Deadpool style team ups. I think it could work. I think you could do something with Sean. Yeah, you could. I think you could do. I think any good platformer could be put in and work pretty well with a solid series of, how do you want to call it, goals and modes that would work towards the various platforming styles. Yeah, for marketing purposes, I almost think it would be better to do a Castlevania, a Metroidvania-style game, or at least something with a bigger pedigree than Shantae. Yeah, that's true. You could always kick out Hollow Knight. Oh, Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight fans will buy anything. Yeah, they're a bunch of chumps. We need a new, or I mean, then the pinball version of Ori and the Blind Forest.
    17:17
    Yeah, no, that's a good one, too. With Hollow Knight, though, if you beat the wizard mode, it unlocks Hollow Knight gun percent. Gun percent.
    17:30
    Dramatically changes up how you play through it. Yeah, I think both Ori and Hollow Knight, the things that are going for them is there's a really good aesthetic. Like, artistically, it could look great. you don't need a lot in the way of like who you have doing call outs isn't relevant you're not going for a particular voice acting cast it's more about the music and obviously those are both very hard games and pinball is a hard game so the idea being that you could do something where you're trying to get somewhere and your shots allow you to do that different modes could represent different levels or famous sections of the map or something yeah so I agree with you those could definitely work trying to think of maybe some other genres that are atypical that could be considered hmm well you could go with a 4x I don't know I mean because you could then the modes could be based around you know exploring and enhancing like you would start with a limited number of point shots actually on the machine.
    18:42
    And you could start with Explore Mode active. And as you complete requirements for the Explore Mode, it will open up more sections of the machine. So when you start the game, you start immediately in Explore Mode. When you're in Explore Mode, it'll have different levels of Explore Mode. When you're in Explore Mode, only certain shots will be valid. But when you make those shots, it will open and activate other shots. And once you've finished your explore mode, you will move into an expand mode, which will let you permanently unlock those sections. And you can just continue to open up the machine. So say it starts with basically first round, ball one starts, and pretty much the only thing that's going to get you points are going to be shots off the left foot. I like this idea, I think that could really work and you're basically growing the machine growing what's active on the machine and you could probably have it set up in a mode so depending on the shots you make is what section of the machine you unlock that would give you choices in tournament play about what is the best value point wise versus what is the best these shots that are easiest for you so each player is playing the exact same machine but they might be unlocking completely different styles and completely different points and depending on how you unlock it in the modes you could unlock it so that See I know I better off the right flipper on this machine because there's a couple shots I'm really solid at on this machine. So I can intentionally do the unlocks to have higher scores that come off of certain shots off of the right flipper due to just my knowledge of how I play. and you can in the mode when you're unlocking shots it's like oh there's like yeah there's this left ramp shot and that left ramp can be unlocked like two or three different ways that you can unlock that left ramp and depending upon the way you unlock that left ramp it sets up either the kind of points or the kind of locks and extra things it can do so you can tailor each game to more suit your personal play style.
    21:10
    I think that would be really... Actually, that's my favorite idea so far. I think that would be just because it's so different for pinball. But I think it would work. I think you could do it. See, I think you could with modern machines. I just... Even then, I'm not sure if it wouldn't get too complicated. If it would become something that's too much for even most players. Yeah, it's so hard to say Because I feel in some cases that the rules are already so convoluted that this would be not any necessarily worse than that. But yeah, I don't know. But I think it's interesting.
    21:46
    What about something that's like super like conceptually basic? I don't know if it would be. I'm thinking like Tetris.
    21:53
    Where you're basically like you could have a horseshoe shot on the game where shooting the horseshoe either side will flip the piece. and then you can shoot the other shots to determine where the piece drops. In a way, I worry that in modern games, it's too basic of a concept because clearly you're going until you drain or your blocks get all the way stacked up. But it makes me wonder, could you do it? Would it be entertaining enough, especially if the pieces start to slowly fall and you have to make the shots or else you're going to get stuck with them always falling in the middle and things like that? if that would be too much of a shooter's game where it's like, oh no, I meant to hit the left orbit and I hit the left ramp, so now the piece is in one spot over to the right and now we're in trouble.
    22:41
    I don't know that people would necessarily dislike it being too much of a shooter's game. Once again, that's a game that might lend itself to the P3 platform more than a lot of other ones. Well, I also think it's in like a head-to-head mode, like either P3 it or like they did with the links with NBA Fastbreak, But where you instead of Tetris, it's more like a super puzzle fighter ultimate. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where you're and there are other Tetris style games like this where what you do impacts the pieces and what the other person must deal with. So it's also a competitive. It's also competitive. But that setup has to be real time to work exactly the same. So you need a link up of some sort. Hmm. It's not a terrible idea. I swear. and you get that catchy Tetris tune.
    23:34
    I would sing it. No, I wouldn't, because I know no one wants to hear pinball people sing. Yeah, you would. Don't want to hear it. Song. You'd sing it. It's fine. Well, I would while I was playing it, because I do with Tetris. Yeah.
    23:47
    Okay. I had another idea that had crept into my head, just thinking about different style games and stuff. Hey, you know, people like all those music pins. What about like a guitar Hero or Rock Band pin, where you'd get certain licensed songs, and the goal is to shoot certain shots while the music's playing to represent whatever instrument was supposed to do what? I don't know. I'm not the biggest rhythm game person. Maybe it's because I have no rhythm. Well, I don't think you could do it. Unlike Tetris, where you could slow things down and make it a slower-paced thing than you would have in the video game, it couldn't be just hit the notes in the right timing with the pinball. That's way too, that's way too, I don't even think Keith Elwin could, could, could, could like S rank those, those things, but, but something just in the vein of it where it's like, okay, well, now it's the part where maybe the bass needs to come in. So we want you to hit, this shot's the bass shot and this shot's the, I don't know, while the song's playing, maybe just how many shots you get allows you to collect something, point more points. And it's really just really point you know it's not so much a mode game but it's more a point-based game which in a way you know that falls back more into like the 80s style of game where it's like you're not trying to work your way through modes it's just ways you can maximize getting points would be the thought i don't think it would work in today's world really in terms of sales but i think it's like a one-off yeah it could be fun wouldn't work in yeah yeah that's true sales That's true Horizon Zero Dawn And you have to hide your ball in the tall grass Can we get some sort of special Like plastic tall grass That the ball can hide in And won't get flattened over time That's what we need, we need that engineered We could Well if you want to start getting crazy with Like crazy mods We could do pretty much any shmup And then Build in build in ball launchers so that when you activate the multi-ball, it's shooting something like power balls out. Something that the machine will be able to tell is different than your primary ball.
    26:09
    It shoots them out basically in ways to intentionally block higher point total shots. I had an idea similar to that one. I was even thinking of And the way I had it in my mind is maybe at the underneath and the bottom of the play field, there's basically a conveyor belt that's feeding back up to the top. And you use pachinko balls.
    26:33
    Oh. And then you just make it rain. Pachinko balls. And it's like, okay, make your shot. Welcome to bullet hell. You have a regular-sized pinball, so it's going to go in the proper pinball trough. The pachinko balls are small, so they'll fall down beneath, and they just keep going back up. And that is the enemy fire. and it's like make your shots with all this stuff to steal all your kinetic energy and screw everything up that could be a lot of fun actually i think the the only thing i couldn't solve in my i must have been really tired when i was thinking so i couldn't solve like because you want like bursts where i guess you could like control the releases to some degree and maybe the different bosses you're facing are the modes and that will determine the pachinko ball release because you have to have like opportunities to make shots otherwise it's going to be like this endless silver sea of pachinko death where nothing can move because it's so much i mean in my mind i'm envisioning hundreds of pachinko balls it's like it's a sea of silver people will i want them to look from a distance and go is that a shiny silver snake on that pinball machine it's like no it could be like the uh oh what was that game hyper ball yeah like like hyper ball but with more balls and smaller. With more smaller balls and you're not the one aiming them, they're shooting down at you. Yeah, they're shooting at you. And maybe you just have a variety of launchers near the top and that's like, most of the toys are actually just vertical up-kickers and other ways just to launch these little pachinko balls and each mode, you have a centralized toy which represents whatever boss, kind of like how Champion Pub would rotate around, you'd have any given fighter you would face. but the firing pattern would be different. That would be the difference because the toy would always look the same, but what would be the different bosses would be reflected on your screen and how the Pachinko balls were fired, where they were firing from, how fast they were firing. That would be, those would be your shmup bosses. It would get worse. Or you'd face certain ones, like maybe you could choose like your five ones, but then the wizard mode is the sixth boss. And he's always just like, okay, here's a sea of Pachinko. Lose.
    28:44
    hmm, could you build, I'm sure you could, build a rotating buck and put like four of them that were all tied together for that, and they would rotate and rapidly fire shots up at, so they'd have to rotate and change their aim points and change their launch patterns. Hmm, I don't know. I don't know if you could for full, I mean, that's probably a way. Another option, though, would be stealing kind of like from Flash Gordon, which they'd have like the saucers and they could kick out multiple directions up and down. Maybe do something that maybe doesn't have the full 360 options, but maybe could kick out the ball, could fire out one of four different ways. I mean, actually, I think with the up kicker, you could because the only piece you'd need to rotate is that little plate that aims the ball as it comes out because it hits the plate and the plate fires it. So as long as that was like on a rotor and it was spinning around. No, I think you could do it your way because the actual coil doesn't need to move. We just need the plate that points it to move. Right. But then you come back into how rapidly can you make one of those fire?
    30:01
    Oh, the up kicker? Yeah. I mean, well, we know from TNA. We get the coil up and that coil just says, I'm done. Yeah. Well, we know from TNA that they can fire really fast. Here's another thing to bear in mind, though, also, in terms of, like, yeah, the overheating or whatnot. If we're using pachinko balls for those, for the shots, we don't need as powerful of coils. True. Because they're lighter. How big is a pachinko ball? Oh, they're whatever size I'm currently envisioning in my dream.
    30:32
    11 millimeters. And a pinball is what? They're 5.75 grams. And a pinball is 27 millimeters. And they're 80 grams.
    30:46
    Definite difference there. Oh, yeah. And then you also wouldn't be running into the issue because you'd have enough of a size and weight difference that the pinball would still bull through them, but it would lose speed and have minor trajectory changes. So you should be able to shoot through the fire. Right. You're just going to lose some of your power. Yeah. So you might not make your shot. Right. You might not get up the ramp. And you'd have some possible deflection issues. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
    31:15
    See? Now, if only there was a way to detect whether your pinball got hit or not, and you get more points if you didn't. And if you did it all in one ball, you get all the points. Hmm. I mean, you could detect whether or not you lost any quote-unquote lives easily because you know whether the ball deranged or not. Right. That's the measure for that part. No, I think, yeah, I think swap's possible. I think we could do this.
    31:37
    I could do, yeah. Oh, it would be loud as hell, though. Oh, man, would it? You thought people complained about dimpling now. Oh, my.
    31:48
    Just pachinko balls flying all over the place. I just saw the little guide, install guide, when you get the pin from Stern. And it's like, take six pin balls and 300 pachinko balls.
    32:01
    Only 300? That seems so low. Well, we're trying to recycle them as quickly as possible. That's true. And someone will be like, I lost one of them. They only gave me 298 of them. This is bullshit. He's like, you'll be fine. Yeah.
    32:17
    No, no, you won't. It actually tells you, like, those three pachinko balls missing. You have to find them.
    32:27
    The pachinko balls are just stored in the head. There's just an open thing so you can just pour new ones in. Oh, yeah. Where Zach Minney would put a topper, that's an opening for a funnel. Yeah. take out your oil funnel and dump those in it just looks like there's a big hopper like from a paintball gun up there yeah exactly you gotta load it like a paintball gun I like this and the 4X idea they're my favorites those are much farther outside of the box than the normal I didn't know we'd get this creative people can't tell there's no pinball news for the last two weeks that's why we're talking about this Okay, well, I think we've built that theme enough. So, you know what?
    33:16
    Wants to be back by popular demand? Is it really by popular demand? Well, kind of. By your popular demand? Well, you claimed to have liked it, too. And, of course, I'm talking about Build-A-Bank. I did have someone write to me and say that they thought you should have done it solo, so you could have won. I considered it. Okay. Because I, of course, being the super kind person that I am, said, why do you think he'd still beat me?
    33:47
    Because there's nobody else to vote for. That doesn't matter. They'll be like, no, Dennis would have done better. Somehow it was just me and I got no votes. So, for those that don't know. The only options was Tony's List and I hate pinball and Tony's still next.
    34:04
    I have a good feeling about you winning this time. I do. But that's okay because winning is not about it. It's having fun. But winning is half the battle. That's what G.I. Joe told me. Well, G.I. Joe had a lot of issues.
    34:19
    Okay. So for those that don't know, what this is, Build-A-Bank, it's a game we play where I have six game selection categories, and they're based around the Pinside ranking list. So for this week, we're going to be doing the 31st through 40th solid state, the 81st through 90th, the 131st through 140th, the 181st through 190th, the 231st through 240th, and then on the EM list, the 31st through the 40th. So we take these groups of 10, which that number can change a little bit if there are ties within the list. And I throw that list into random.org and the top four are what we get to pick from. And we alternate. And in this instance, Tony, you will pick first because I picked first last time. And we cannot pick the game the other person already picked had they gone first. So pretty simple game. And then I put up a poll that runs for a week on our EGP Facebook page, which is at facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. And you get to vote on which bank of six titles you think is better based off of whatever. Like you'd rather own them or you'd rather play them or whatever you define better. It's up to you. So pretty simple. In his pick.
    35:35
    Well, we were in week two. It was very close. The banks were both equally well-off. I'm trying to think.
    35:46
    Result-wise, for people to know, our first time we did this was episode 114, and I won 80% to 20%, and that was the most lopsided. And then the second time we did it was episode 116, and I won 56% to 44%. And then the last time we did this was episode 117, where I won 71% to 29%. So anyway, we will start now. And the first set of games is that 31st through 40th. And just so people know what the initial pool of games is, we have Rick and Morty, Circus Voltaire, The Hobbit, Ghostbusters, Iron Man, The Shadow, Creature from the Black Lagoon Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle Funhouse and Guardians of the Galaxy So I'm throwing these into the random.org to figure out what the four we will get to pick from and the four we get to pick from are The Shadow Rick and Morty Ghostbusters and Iron Man and you get to go first Well, Monkey Bugs I know what my personal choice is because... And isn't that what you do? That's what I do.
    37:06
    That's what I do. But quite honestly, I have a feeling I know what the fan favorite's going to be. I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm going to go with Iron Man.
    37:20
    That was going to be my pick. But why don't you say why you chose it? Because of all the games that are on here, Iron Man is the one that I find most inherently enjoyable. I like the brutality that it brings, and it's just a much funner game with the caveat, I've not played it, so I have no regret about that. I haven't played it either.
    37:48
    And as much as I like The Shadow, and I think The Shadow has one of the best ball locks ever, Iron Man's more fun. yeah no i i agree with that as well uh well given you've taken iron man i'm actually going to take ghostbusters i know it gets an incessant amount of criticism because of the flipper gap i understand that however i think that it is an incredibly fun game uh the latest code update which unfortunately i've not been able to experience yet personally though i have watched it played is a vast improvement. So I think it's balance-wise is in a really good place. The theme integration is one of, if not the best ever done in pinball. I think that you've got like Hobbit and Ghostbusters are kind of like neck and neck with that theme integration. It sounds good. The light show is great. The art package is incredible. Yeah, it can be a bit frustrating to play. I know some competitive people don't favor it. And I would say Iron Man is a better competitive game, But I think that it's more fun to just go up and play Ghostbusters solo just because you've got the multiple ladders you can progress through for the modes. And it just integrates so well. I just loved having it on location. I just absolutely had a blast playing it. And I actually wish I had one. I wish I had an Iron Man 2, though. They're both good games for different reasons. And this is one of those choices where it was kind of hard because literally I would not say no to owning all four of these machines. Oh, yeah. Well, again, I haven't played Rick and Morty. But, yeah, I really like the Shadow, too. It's cool with all the diverters and stuff. It's just – but for me, the issue with the Shadow versus Iron Man and Ghostbusters is I don't – like the modes aren't – they're just like – they're not special. Yeah. But I just don't care. Like you, if I'd gone second, I probably would have ended up with Ghostbusters. Well, you didn't have to go second, so you ended up with Iron Man. Yes, I did. So now we're going to move to the next set of games, and that is the 81st through 90th on the pin side, top 100. And those games are Swords of Fury, Data East's Jurassic Park, Doctor Who, Safecracker, The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard, Batman the Dark Knight Version,
    40:10
    Slugfest, which I think that's a pitch-in mat, but it's on the list, so there it is. Johnny Mnemonic, Pinball, which I believe is the Stern Pinball game, it's just called Pinball, and Black Knight 2000.
    40:25
    So we in the Little Runner and the four are Safecracker Pinball Jurassic Park and Slugfest I know this will not shock Tony at all, but I will be taking Jurassic Park. I used to own one, so it helps confirm that I do actually like it. I do recommend that it actually be experienced with the Chad H software revision. It's a much better, better balanced, more challenging experience than the baseline data East code, but the T-Rex eating the ball is really cool. The geometry, it's not the smoothest. There's a bit of clunk to it, but it's interesting. That ramp is really steep, but it's satisfying to hit. I like the, the rules are very Adam's family. So if you enjoy Adam's family's rules, you, you should enjoy Jurassic parks. And in fact, I actually think that the rules work better on Jurassic park than they do for Adam's family. I know it's sacrilege, but that's what we do around here on EGP. So, Tony, that leaves you with Safecracker, Slugfest, and Pinball. I think I'm actually going to go with Safecracker just because it is such a different take on the normal pinball machine. And there is so much, how do I want to put it? It's so interesting to go back and try and push for the kind of goals it has built in. the way it plays is like we were talking about earlier with some of our games, it's just different than a lot of your normal day-to-day stuff.
    42:01
    Yeah. Let me issue a correction so that you have the opportunity to make a change. Because I typoed. Or my thing auto-corrected. That pinball is not pinball, it's pinbot. Oh! Oh, crud! Well, that's very, very different. I'm going to leave that mistake in so people know. I am sticking with Jurassic Park, even though Pinbot is my favorite System 11 game. I had to look it up because I'm like, no, no, why would a stern game that unknown have made the top 100? I just couldn't accept it. I thought I typed it right, so either I got autocorrected, or my brain just said Pinball. So, sorry. that's yeah that's a pretty different animal right there in that case I will make a switch I will go to now we'll live with the accident I'm going to stay with what I originally said so safecracker I'm going to stay with safecracker just because well it's fun and I just think this is one of those interesting things that happen I'm going to stay with where we have in my mind it's still pinball okay yeah no I Yeah, I never played that. Gosh, I'm sorry about that. So, folks, you can see the mistakes that are made by me behind the scenes. And, yes, I did confirm. Slugfest is the Pigeon Bat, which I never pick. Yeah. I thought it was weird because I was like, what is this? And I'm looking. Why is there a Pigeon Bat? Yeah, it's just it was in the list. So it's kind of like because I don't make exceptions. I'm sort of tied to the list. Because I thought about throwing it out. And then I thought, well, what if I don't know? and then I don't throw it out. Kind of like naming the wrong game or whatnot. Poor Pinbot. It is my favorite System 11, but I enjoy Jurassic Park. All right, you're good to pick first this time. And now we are in the 131st through 140th games. So the initial preliminary list is The Flintstones, Mustang,
    44:06
    Bride of Pinbot 2.0, Haunted House, Cyclone, F-14 Tomcat Frontier America's Most Haunted Viking and Centaur II So I'll throw those in the randomizer and our choices are going to be Viking F-14 Mustang and Centaur Actually, we got a pretty good selection out of that list. Yes, yes. Now Mustang must have been pushed down Because I remember picking it before And it must have fallen some points To be in the list again is my thinking Yeah At least I'm pretty sure I picked it before No you did And I do like it Gosh do I want to pick it again though Don't I go first Didn't you pick JP first Yeah But I'm still thinking because I don't think you're going to pick it You're probably right I'm just This is a much harder choice than I thought it would be At this point Because normally by the time we get to this point There's only one good game In the list Well they're all supposed to be kind of the same level of popularity Right but Just because they're supposed to be all kind of the same Doesn't mean that they actually are all kind of the same That's true That is true I think I'm going to go with one that I know you wouldn't have picked anyway I'm going to go with F-14 because of the speed and the way it shoots. And I'm a big fan of the, what do you call them, the frameworks that the ball goes through and just how it all works together. I like that game. I know you're not a big fan of it, but I enjoy it. You're right. I would not have picked that game. It probably would have been the last one I would have picked.
    46:07
    I will go ahead and pick Mustang then. I will say, though, F-14 and Mustang have one thing in common, and that is they are the fastest games where I feel like I just don't have time to react. With F-14 being number one and Mustang being number two. But, yeah, as I've said before on Mustang, I think it's grossly underrated. I mean, I can't believe it's this low. Well, I guess I can, because the theme's not that great. But I just think the modes are really interesting. They're very different feeling. I like the geometry of it. I think it feels really good to shoot. It's a hard game. As you noted, with F-14, it's so much of just watching the ball on the habit trails. It's hard, and I can see why you like it. I think Mustang's hard, but I think Zing is a better package overall. So that is why I'm going with Mustang, I guess, again.
    47:00
    Okay, I go first now this next time. And now we are going to go through the 181st through 190th games. This is where I could have expected to see a pinball from Stern Pinball. Right. But it's not in this list. Our initial list selection will be LaserCue, Big Game, Pharoah, Alien Poker, Meteor, Nazcar, Gladiators, World Poker Tour, Data East's The Simpsons, and Joust. So throw those in the list Randomize the list And our choices are going to be Simpsons Joust World Poker Tour And Meteor I will take Meteor Stern Electronics Best game I think by far their best game ever So much fun with the spinners So much fun with the drop targets Really challenging game It's a Steve Kirk designed who, back in a time where competitive pinball was not a thing, made it a thing and designed a game designed to be competitively challenging and fun and fair. I have repeatedly tried to obtain a meteor. I've never gotten one, found one within the price range that I'm comfortable with, but it's the one Stern Electronics game I really wish I had. So I'm definitely going with it.
    48:24
    So can I put you down for Simpsons? No, actually you can. You can put me down for World Poker Tour. That was my other choice. I don't like the back glass. The back glass is so horrible. That's true.
    48:40
    The actual game for a modern game with a lot of drops is probably one of the best and funnest playing drop-heavy modern games. I remember when I first started playing pinball and first started going to the 403 Club, there was one up there, and I enjoyed it every time I played it. had a pretty good competitive streak on it as well. It's just definitely out of all of these, it's the one that I would like to sit down and play out the door right now. I think that was a good choice.
    49:15
    Yeah. I don't think much of the other two options. Yeah. That's one of the things. The other options aren't great, but there's not a lot of games with a really impressive set of drops anymore. No, no, they've fallen out of favor for whatever reason. Maybe cost. Yeah.
    49:35
    Well, speaking of cost, we now have to pay the heavy price of going down into the 200s to the 231st and 240th game, of which you get to pick first. The preliminary list would be Flight 2000, Countdown, Galaxy, Mars God of War, The Six Million Dollar Man, Arena, Evil Knievel Time Fantasy Future Spa and Barb Wire Oh man, I can't believe Barb Wire is that hot. Well don't worry it was dead last in the randomized so it won't be on the list. So the four that will be on the list are Galaxy Evil Knievel Time Fantasy and Countdown I think if it's the game I'm thinking of let me look real quick I'm almost positive it is though you get to the point where you have to bust out the IPBB just to be sure well some of these names are like Galaxy, Countdown what does it mean?
    50:37
    a time fantasy there are a lot of games with time in the name yeah Countdown is the one I was thinking of that's the one I'm going to go with we played this a few years ago there was a really nice one in Texas. Yes. As I recall. I can't remember exactly which year it was at this point. But I remember playing it multiple times and it was very enjoyable for what it is. Hmm.
    51:11
    Yeah. I actually think that that was an excellent pick. Because it was the one I wanted. and thus of course it means excellent I think I know which one I want now I'm just double checking because I'm looking up galaxy because apparently there were multiple galaxies that were made most of them are EM's though and this was a solid state so but I want to be sure that it's the 1980 version that was on the list here before I should have left the should have left my Pennside list up where they have all these games listed. So let's see, where was that one at?
    51:55
    There we... Oh wait, sorry, we're in the 200s at this point. I was on the wrong list. Alright. Yeah, that was a Stern Electronics 1980. Let me take a look at it. I don't know if I've ever seen this game before.
    52:10
    Yeah, I have because I've written about it. uh regarding uh italian bottoms and and unique layouts and and things like that because uh galaxy is a weird one uh i'm gonna go ahead and go with galaxy and the the reason is because it's so odd and i need something odd in my my collection here so you've got i mean you've got an interesting spinner that's kind of in a what i would describe as an inner left orbit which is almost in the middle of the play field and uh you've got the drop bank on the left you've got a couple of like centralized pop bumpers it's a really strange design this does actually have slingshots but not you but not where you'd normally find them so the slingshots instead of being where the slings would be they're actually up higher uh up against the edges of the play field um uh kind of just below the drop target bank and then on the opposite side that those are the slings and then where the slings normally would be are just some lane guides so you've got this weird kind of flowy setup that it's just really different even for the time that it came out it's really different this is actually it's a harry williams design and so uh i just and something i didn't know until i just read about it was that it actually was the very first pinball machine to have computer controlled general illumination so that's kind of cool but that's not why i'm picking it uh but i just it's a really unique layout. One of those special Harry Williams late in his career Stern Electronics titles. Big time into the ball is wild sort of design. The lower third is so unique of a layout to go with. I just think it's different and it's fun and I can't have countdown. So I'm going to take something that's just really wacky to try and counteract you. So that's what I'm going to go with and so that means we go to the ems our our favorite never we never have to look these up not we always we always know that we always know everything about these ems especially when we get to this list so for the ems i actually made a note of the manufacturer and the year because sometimes these titles are reused uh quite a bit so um our initial list is dancing lady which is a Gottlieb from 66, Kings and Queens, which is a Gottlieb from 65, Orbit, which is a Gottlieb from 71. We have Cowpoke, which is a Gottlieb from 65, OXO, which is a Williams from 73,
    54:43
    Sea Ray, which is a Bally from 71, Foursquare, which is a Gottlieb from 71, Subway, which is a Gottlieb from 66, Atlantis, which is a Gottlieb from 75, and Lucky Hand, which is a Gottlieb from 77. So I'll throw these on the randomizer list. And the top four are Lucky Hand, highlighting my spreadsheet as I go along, Foursquare, Cowpoke, and Orbit. Okay, I go first. That's easy. I'm going to go with orbit because i own super orbit for a reason because i found a deal on one but uh so orbit for those that don't know is an electrical the first version the electromechanical version of the game super orbit which some people have seen me stream on eclectic gamers have have experienced that title so in terms of what it i mean the differences are mostly the uh just the fact that It's solid state and it had higher scoring because Orbit, even in 71, was actually a four-player game. So it wasn't a single-player wedgehead or anything. But what I like about it, though, is the layout. There are two ways you can get scoring. One is there's a spinner that's on the right side. And it sounds like with Orbit that you think your spinner's on an Orbit shot, and it's not. It's Orbit because the scoring orbits around a planet that's in the middle of a playfield. So there's that spinner, but it's a relatively safe shot, and it advances your bonus. And this game is very, very bonus heavy, which you collect it in a ball. But then the other option, which advances your bonus much faster, but it's a lot more dangerous, is there's a really close to the flipper's very target on the left. And I just think it's really fun. You can either go for that very target and take all that risk, which is what I usually do, just because it builds up points so much. or if you're really comfortable with a spinner shot, you can just keep going through that. There's not a whole lot of points on the play field. It's mostly bonus. It's a very bonus-heavy game. So it's a really interesting Krinsky layout. I think it's a lot of fun.
    56:53
    I've really only experienced the solid-state version, but looking at the layout, other than I think an addition of a center post on the solid-state version, it's basically identical and the scoring changes. So, yeah, easy pick for me, Orbit. I'm going to go... Man, that looks real familiar.
    57:13
    Maybe you've played it. Is... It is. Just a second. Well, in this case, I'm going to go with the exact same idea you did. I'm going to go with Lucky Hand, which is the replay version of your Jack's Open. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah. it's the Anibal version of Jack's Open because when I was looking at the playfield it's like I know this playfield I've played this game a fair amount but I don't recall ever hearing it and that's yeah that's why so yeah no it's got the drops where you pick up you know the pair of jacks the three queens the queens and the kings right there in that central drop target, and you've got the pops above with the lanes from the shooting trough that you can get back up into. So, yeah, no, I've not actually played Lucky Hand, but I've played the exact same game, except without the add-a-ball a fair amount of times. So there we go. Okay, yeah. Oh, they only made 610 of these. Okay. Huh. Interesting. Apparently there's also a Lucky Card Adaball version, which is the same game, too. Yeah. Wow. Another 455 units. Well, okay. Well, that makes sense. Same designer, too, Ed Grisby. Huh. So. That's interesting how the EM versions of two games you own were in this list, were in our four picks that time. That's kind of funny. I'm not too surprised at Lucky Hand. I mean, I should, like, because I think Jack's Open, the main one that people think of, the EM of that is way high on the list and these are probably just lower because there's so few of them but would be my thought well Tony I have to say I think I'm in big trouble I don't know about that I think this is going to be a closer one well no if it's I don't know if it's actually going to be as close as I mean just looking over so for those that don't know as a reminder so in 31st through 40th Tony took Iron Man. I took Ghostbusters in 81st through 90th. Tony took Safecracker. I took Dead East Jurassic Park.
    59:35
    For 131st through 140th, Tony took F-14 Tomcat. I took Mustang. For 181st through 190th, Tony took World Poker Tour. I took Meteor.
    59:46
    For 231st through 240th, Tony took Countdown. I took Galaxy. And for EM 31st through 40th, Tony took Lucky Hand and I took Orbit. But the reason why I'm concerned is Lucky Hand, Countdown, and Iron Man are all strong competitive choices, which is something you sometimes haven't gone with. So I think with the competitive player audience, you have shown your bona fides, and you're going to win them over with that. Right, but Jurassic Park and Meteor are also much higher rated by most people than my choices in both those ranks. Which means we're going to be down to the pushes of F-14 and Mustang. I mean, yeah, we'll see. It's like, I don't know. I mean, Data East Jurassic Park, thematically, yeah, it's a strong choice.
    60:44
    Meteor was good Meteor is a good choice I would have taken Meteor Source Orbit Orbit probably is a push with Lucky Hand So I mean That was just both a really good Competitive game It is what it is And I don't know if Galaxy has a lot of fans or not I don't know how many people have played it Countdown, god such a good choice I'm so mad that you went with it I'm very angry I'm so mad that you went with the game that you played and enjoyed. Yeah, I am. You should have let me have it.
    61:19
    That's basically what I'm saying. You should have gone with Daddy's Simpsons. You went with Simpsons Pen and Ball Party. You've just gotten used to the fact that a lot of times I'll let you have games like that because I choose a game that I personally enjoy more than one that might be competitive. It's just in this case, the game that I personally enjoy more is also competitive. Yeah, you should have chosen Evil Knievel. You should have chosen Evil Knievel. You should have. That's what you deserved Well speaking of deserve I think our listeners deserve to hear us Go into the video game segment I think that that is a solid idea The video game segment Is both enormous and Small Or reduced compared to Some of what we've seen Lately Specifically because I went with Just one Overarching theme because I thought it was the biggest thing that has happened lately, and that is just the Xbox Game Showcase. Yeah, that would have been... I mean, it's the only news I was really aware of. I mean, there's all the other ongoing stuff and a variety of other smaller things, but I thought this was the one big thing to hit with. We've already done PlayStations, because that was last month, and And Xbox, they have a pretty strong showing, I think, honestly.
    62:44
    Yeah, it's, I mean, I've heard mixed things. There will be a link in the show notes to a summary for people who want to read about it. I guess, I mean, they did do a lot of games, which I think was smart. Yeah. A page from Sony. So is that where you want to start? Is it going through the games? I think considering that's the primary part of it, I think that's probably it. okay so uh halo infinite's probably the most talked about one i'm aware of i would assume so uh i'm sure it's for the halo fanboys which is you know like entire generations of xbox gamers uh it's going to be the big target the big draw uh it was controversial though apparently a lot of people did not like it how it looked graphically and uh so i did some research on that yeah it was a mix of things apparently in play. Apparently the original broadcast stream was pretty low quality, low res, so that didn't help. I did read an article, which I'm not linking to because I don't know if it's true or not, but that person, one of the video game journalists was theorizing the issue might also be related to the dynamic lighting that the game is relying on, and that made it look kind of just weird to people because they're not used to seeing dynamic lighting as ever present as it is in this version. And then I also heard that, I guess, 343 confirmed that this was not the latest build that was in the trailer. It's a prior PC-based build that they had ready because the stay-at-home stuff has kind of interfered with their planning. So it's not the latest version. It looks lower quality because it was lower quality. Interesting. if that's the actuality of it I mean it didn't look terrible well a lot of people also don't like the hairless brutes but that's like an aesthetic choice that's like when Star Trek Discovery aired and people didn't like how radically different the Klingons looked yeah I didn't like that either see you understand once I turned it into Klingon talk you understood I understand that I'm not surprised really with a Halo game coming out, though, as a launch title, it's always a good thing. I did find the fact that the map made it almost feel open-world-ish was interesting. Yeah, I had heard some rumors that it was going to be thoughts that it might be more open-world style. That would be an interesting direction to go with the Halo game.
    65:21
    The fact that it's going to launch with availability on Windows through Game Pass and the surprise to me, it's going to launch on Steam when it launches.
    65:34
    That's unexpected. I know they've had really good feedback from the launch of the Master Chief Collection on Steam. It's been very popular, but I still didn't expect them to let Infinite be available on Steam at the exact same time as it's available on Game Pass.
    65:52
    Or on Windows and the new Xbox. Yeah, it all seems to be, We'll hit on the Game Pass thing in a little bit, but this all seems to be about a very different, it seems, for this new generation strategy that Microsoft is doing that really revolves around that. Yeah.
    66:13
    Also, let's see. I'm just going to touch on some of these, and we'll probably skip some, too. Following the ones I'm going to avow, a fantasy first-person game. it's set in the Pillars of Eternity universe I'm a big Pillars of Eternity fan and obviously it's from the Obsidian so I'm interested in it we'll see how it actually ends up being but it definitely is something I'm keeping my eye on let's see as Dusk falls I don't know it was some sort of emo visual novel thing oh the big favorite Fable's coming back That's not How did I see it put It was the worst Kept secret in UK Game development I believe is what I saw it described as Yeah I've been Hearing discussion for years That that was going to be coming Back but I guess It's nice to have it confirmed finally Officially just because That's something that Xbox has been really weak on since Fable 3 is they don't have an RPG series that's associated with just the Xbox. Except Fable. But it wasn't... With the studio going away... Now, my understanding, I didn't watch this, was that what is it... Is it Turn 10 who does Forza? They have a group that's doing the Fable game? That was always what I was hearing.
    67:50
    I'm not sure. I didn't see that part. Well, regardless of who's doing it. The important thing is that it is coming back. As long as it's done well.
    68:00
    Hopefully. Hopefully it doesn't over-promise a bunch of stuff that then doesn't come to be. And like you said, Forza, there's a Forza game coming. It wouldn't be an Xbox without a Forza game.
    68:12
    They didn't show anything, though. That trailer was... No. I mean, it was like, oh, here's a car in a garage. Have fun. Yeah, I think everyone knows what to expect with Forza games Yeah, there's nothing real Nothing really fancy coming out of it There's a bunch of games here that I'll just go through them real quick Phantasy Star Online 2 is coming I know Phantasy Star Online is super popular But I've never played it I tried it And I just didn't get it I didn't get into it. Yeah.
    68:53
    Stalker 2? Oh, it's been forever since a Stalker. Yeah, it was like more than a decade ago was the last time a Stalker game came out. I never played any Stalker games either.
    69:05
    Yeah, I don't think I did either. Just heard of it. It's famous. Yeah, I've heard of it, but it doesn't have any real draw for me. Now, a game that I am interested in is State of Decay 3.
    69:17
    I've heard very good things about the first two, but I haven't played them. Yeah, it started out weird. The first State of Decay game I played, and it was one of those games that got a major overhaul at one point, and when you came back to the overhaul, it was way better than it was before that.
    69:36
    Okay. And then State of Decay 2 was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. I never finished it because I don't finish very many games, but it was very enjoyable. The parts of it I was playing.
    69:50
    Probably the biggest draw to me from this list is the Warhammer 40k Darktide. What a shock. I know, right? I'm just blown away. You're blown away. I'm interested in something that falls into my wheelhouse. It's a Left 4 Dead style game in the 40k universe. Well, that sounds... I did like the Left 4 Dead games. Yeah, I mean, four-player co-op. Yeah, I'm on board. Sign me up.
    70:18
    Let's see. What else did we have in here Tetris Effect Connected is Going to be coming to Xbox I've played Tetris Effect on Playstation And currently with Connected it's got multiplayer Modes and like co-op play And co-op Tetris sounds Weird Yeah that'd be like something if I had it That I didn't have to pay money for it I'd do But I probably would never buy it no surprise there's Destiny 2's got something coming out and apparently Destiny 2's coming to Game Pass I think every game covered is on Game Pass yeah everything here is coming on Game Pass but the fact that Destiny 2's going to be on Game Pass is just interesting let's see another Obsidian game Grounded, it's basically Honey I Shrunk the Kids the trailer is hilarious it just was irreverent and funny and I really enjoyed just the trailer the game's actually kind of interesting it's a co-op survival game of kids shrunk in a backyard so we'll see there's an expansion for The Outer Worlds coming out I still need to start the I have Outer Worlds I haven't played it yet though it's a fun game I enjoyed it is exactly what they said coming into it on the box it was going to be. It's a fast little game. So, yeah, I enjoyed it quite a lot. It's actually the reason I got Game Pass, which I should probably check. I think I turned Game Pass off. I should probably turn it back on because there's a lot of stuff coming. It would be a good way to get some games.
    72:09
    Psychonauts 2. Super popular. Yep. so there's no way that if Plus Two totally flops and burns it's going to be huge The Makers of Life is Strange is putting out another emo-y, deep mystery game thing I don't know, I never played Life is Strange I've heard really good things about it, but it's not really been my kind of interest level They're getting Dragon Quest on an Xbox Which as I recall Dragon Quest wasn't on the Xbox when it first came out Not to my knowledge Yeah because 11 was only On like Playstation and then it came to They put it on Switch too? I thought they put it on Switch Yeah I normally associate Dragon Quest with Nintendo Stuff but Yeah What else was there Oh there's weird crazy game, Ballin' Wonderworld from Square Enix. Okay. It looks like I would need a lot of drugs to enjoy that game. On the other hand, it looks like something my daughter would love. It looks like it's wide up her alley, but man, it looks like I would need a lot of drugs to get into that game.
    73:30
    They did show what I'm personally expecting to be the biggest crash and burn out of these titles, which is the Exo Mecha.
    73:41
    Oh, okay Free to play, right? Yeah, free to play competitive online FPS Uh-huh, yeah You can go sit in the corner with the other 4200 of you guys It's a Valorant killer Yeah, sure it is And a sequel to Hello Neighbor Which was super popular It was everywhere for a long time Hello Neighbor was. It still is everywhere for a while.
    74:14
    On YouTube, lots of people play it. You see lots of videos and there's lots of memes and references to it.
    74:22
    Lots of sequels that I just assume are going to do pretty good. There are some others in there, but I think that's the big ones.
    74:32
    Yeah, and as we noted earlier, everything shown, be it unique to Microsoft or third-party, because a lot of this stuff is third-party games that are going to be on, like they'll be on Sony as well, on the PS5, were that they're all in Game Pass. And I've seen multiple articles, and I do agree with them, basically saying that that's what this was. This Microsoft big old shindig here, their game showcase, wasn't really a showcase for the Xbox Series X. It's a showcase for Game Pass.
    75:11
    And that that is where their entire marketing strategy, their entire money-making model is really going to lean on that rather than the traditional approach of having a whole bunch of exclusives and buy a whole bunch, you know, like two or three a year and just rely on those to be why you buy their hardware. Instead, they're just like, no, we just want you to be in Game Pass. And to provide some context that I read about, because I thought this was really interesting.
    75:41
    Last of Us Part II, pretty popular game, Sony exclusive, already out. It has sold more than 4 million copies.
    75:51
    It's their second, it's Sony's second biggest video game launch ever in their entire history. As of April, Microsoft's Game Pass has over 10 million people. Yeah, I saw those numbers. And so that's what this is. And as we've touched on before, and I'm not in Game Pass because I've got a pile of games I still need to play. So I've never done it. But getting in is really low cost. And I've not heard a single person who has ever argued that any other subscription service in video games is remotely as good for what the dollar amount is and what you get out of it. And Microsoft knows this. And that's what they're doing. They're relying on that. They've got an ultimate tier to it now. It's like at regular rate. It's $15 a month, which gives you Xbox, PC games, and access to their xCloud, which is what is going to be their ability to allow you to play your personal Xbox library on smartphones and on tablets. So it's Stadia, but popular.
    76:51
    Because Microsoft's already got all the games in there. Stadia is this streaming service that's hardware agnostic, and that's great, except they have to grow it all from the ground up. Whereas Microsoft is like, we'll just add some Stadia stuff to our gaming ecosystem, which is already, if it's not Sony strong, it's still strong. And they have all these new studios now, so they're going to guarantee that it continues to be strong. But yeah, just running through this, just even the games you named, Tony, and that all of that is available in Game Pass. It's just so you don't have to go and buy all these things. There's always stuff like Game Pass, always over 100 games. So there's always stuff in there and it's new stuff. It's not just old stuff. So I just, it's so smart. It's like, there are going to be people like me that are interested in the hardware because I mostly game on console. But this, just because it stops, especially people who have a limited amount of money that they're willing to spend on new games, you know, especially younger people, that they can just do the Game Pass and they know they're going to get new stuff. It brings in, as we've been seeing Microsoft trying to do this go, and as you just described for yourself, it brings in the PC gamers. I mean, putting stuff out on Steam and saying you can play this in Game Pass and it's going to be available the same day as it is for the console. People, that is appealing. It broadens their audience.
    78:12
    Yeah, no, it's crazy. I think if you're interested in any of these games, not having Game Pass would probably be a mistake. the only reason I don't have it is because I get games are like my Christmas and birthday fodder list and I don't go through them fast enough but if I were getting games for myself I'd just get Game Pass oh yeah no definitely and like I said because Game Pass if you get just the PC Game Pass is so cheap since I don't have an Xbox and because it has less stuff on it that it was worth it.
    78:53
    And with the additions you can get for PC and your Xbox, I just, I think Game Pass is where they are going to pull ahead this time. Yeah. As a Polygon article noted, it's, Sony is doing what all console manufacturers have done for a really long time, and they are banking on that they will, and I think it will work for them, that they will have success because they're going to try and get like at least two AAA titles that are Sony exclusive out every year. That's their model. And Microsoft was like, okay, we're going to the Netflix model instead.
    79:36
    Even if the games aren't as good as Sony's two AAA blockbusters, the fact is that you'll be able to turn on any month you want, turn on your Game Pass, and you're going to have a whole bunch of stuff. And it's so diverse. you're going to find something that's fun. And it costs you so much less than buying that AAA game. I think it will really work for them. And as they take all those studios they acquired and start having exclusives that are, to my understanding, always going to be available day one on Game Pass, if it's a first-party Microsoft thing, then it just creates more and more incentive and they're just doing... It's like, we're doing cloud. We're cloud computing now and that's what we're doing. We're just going to make money with subscriptions. I think it's smart. At the price point, it's hard to say no.
    80:24
    And they make everyone else like EA's version just look like a joke. So anyway, well, we got through all the news, Tony. That's pretty much everything important this time around. Yeah, I think we gave them a pretty meaty episode. And if you'd like to reach out to tell us about what a great job we did in covering all this interesting information, you can reach out to us at eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or over with facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. We're on Twitch, Twitter, and Instagram as eclectic underscore gamers. And we'll be back in a couple of weeks. So until then, my name is Dennis. And I've been Tony. Goodbye. Bye.