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What? Pulp Fiction Pinball!

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 26m·analyzed·Mar 20, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Three new pinball announcements analyzed: Godfather, Foo Fighters, and Pulp Fiction.

Summary

Chris Freiberg and Jared Morgan discuss three newly announced pinball machines: Godfather (Jersey Jack), Foo Fighters (Stern), and Pulp Fiction (Chicago Gaming Company). The episode focuses heavily on Pulp Fiction's design philosophy, cabinet styling, and licensing features. Hosts analyze playfield mechanics, pricing, and market positioning across all three titles.

Key Claims

  • Godfather Limited Edition sold out immediately at $16,000 before anyone played it

    high confidence · Chris notes 'People bought this, sold it out, before laying one finger on it'

  • Godfather Limited Edition is priced at $16,000 USD and standard Limited Edition at approximately $12,000

    high confidence · Direct pricing discussion: '$16 grand' and '$12 grand'

  • Jersey Jack machines are difficult for casual walk-up play due to complex modes catering to home collectors

    high confidence · Chris: 'Jersey Jack machines...are almost unfriendly to just walk up and play...They're catering to the home market'

  • Operators cannot achieve ROI on $12,000 pinball machines in commercial locations

    high confidence · Jared: 'They'll never get a return on investment...on a 12 grand pinball machine'

  • Foo Fighters has metal railings throughout instead of plastic habitrails

    high confidence · Chris confirms 'Everything's metal' and praises 'No plastic habitrails'

  • Foo Fighters Pro model lacks magnet that exists in Premium version

    high confidence · Jared confirms magnet 'does not exist on the Pro model'

  • Foo Fighters features never-before-seen mechanics: a pop-up post and in-lane targets

    high confidence · Jared: 'Those two things, never before seen on a pinball'

  • Pulp Fiction is designed as a 1970s-early 1980s style two-flipper game with no ramps

    high confidence · Chris confirms 'It's only a two-flipper game' and 'no ramps'

  • Pulp Fiction features 250 iconic lines of dialogue and five licensed songs

    high confidence · Trailer content shows '250 iconic lines of dialogue and five licensed songs'

  • Mark Ritchie designed Pulp Fiction; he is the younger brother of Steve Ritchie known for crossover habitrails

Notable Quotes

  • “People bought this, sold it out, before laying one finger on it.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Godfather section — Demonstrates extreme FOMO-driven purchasing behavior for high-price LE games despite unproven gameplay

  • “They'll never get a return on investment. They'll never get a return. It's hard enough to get a return on investment on an 8 grand pinball machine, let alone a 12 grand pinball machine.”

    Jared Morgan @ Godfather pricing section — Critical operator-perspective critique of Jersey Jack's pricing model rendering commercial viability impossible

  • “Jersey Jack machines, like a common knock on them, is that they're so into their modes that they are almost unfriendly to just walk up and play.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Godfather gameplay discussion — Identifies design/usability conflict between home collector complexity and location/casual player accessibility

  • “Everything's metal. Yeah. So I mean, that's really good. I think this seems to be the standard now, like for even Pro games, we'll have the metal rails. Good.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Foo Fighters Pro discussion — Confirms industry-wide shift toward all-metal construction even in entry-level Pro editions

  • “Those two things, never before seen on a pinball.”

    Jared Morgan @ Foo Fighters Premium mechanics — Highlights innovation in mechanical design (pop-up post and in-lane targets) as differentiators

  • “I'm like, I don't even know what that game is. I'm just going to point out one thing right here. Oh, look at that metal coin door. That looks like a billet machine. And deliberately, deliberately done.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Pulp Fiction cabinet design — Recognition of intentional retro cabinet styling choice reflecting 1970s-80s aesthetic

  • “It's only a two-flipper game.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Pulp Fiction design revelation — Key differentiator: stripped-down classic pinball design philosophy vs modern multi-flipper complexity

Entities

Chris FreibergpersonJared MorganpersonGodfathergameFoo FightersgamePulp FictiongameJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Companycompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack's design philosophy (complex modes, home collector focus) incompatible with location/operator market, limiting addressable market

    high · Chris: 'so into their modes that they are almost unfriendly to just walk up and play...They're catering to the home market'; Jared: 'You won't at all see one of those out in the wild'

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong collector enthusiasm for Foo Fighters with multiple pre-orders; venue operator reports 3-4+ units on order

    high · Jared: 'I've actually got three on order...the guy up at Sunshine Coast...he's got like four or so on order'; Chris: 'everyone has that I've spoken to...yeah, I will have one of those'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Foo Fighters positioned as cross-generational/mainstream music table with broader appeal vs. Kiss/Iron Maiden/AC/DC niche audiences

    high · Chris: 'Foo Fighters...mainstream enough...Kiss table is very specific to an audience...Aerosmith...young kids aren't going to care'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Foo Fighters introduces two never-before-seen mechanical features: pop-up post (Overdrive) with demand activation and in-lane targets within slingshot geometry

    high · Jared: 'Those two things, never before seen on a pinball'; Chris confirms both features as novel to industry

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pulp Fiction deliberately designed as 1970s-80s style two-flipper game without ramps; retro-futuristic callback to classic pinball era

    high · Chris: 'two-flipper game...no ramps'; hosts repeatedly reference Centaur/Eight Ball Deluxe era design intentions; metal coin door styling deliberate

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.259

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world it's jared morgan hello chris freebus how are you oh addressing me formally now I'm doing well yourself yes I'm doing splendidly this Sunday very well indeed we're figuring out tech problems that we've been having and hopefully we've worked some of them out once again until they stop working again until something changes and everything breaks we keep on saying folks This is the way. If you are actually savvy with doing these things and have tips and tricks or software that you think that we should use or maybe mixing boards that we should have, things that actually make hosting one of these with a partner that's literally on the other side of the world,
1:14
drop us a note. Let us know these things so that maybe we can make those adjustments. Work out something a little bit less temperamental.
1:24
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know. Or maybe you watch these and go, oh, no, it's a smooth boat. They do this really well. It's like, what problems? What problems? You know, it's like a duck. The legs are going like this under the water.
1:38
But smooth and, yeah, floating smooth across the top. That's right. But, hey, if you want to support our show, feel free to go over to that PayPal and just look up blahblahblockade at gmail.com and drop us some coin that way. That way we can host this and everything else like that. and maybe you'll afford some of these pieces of equipment. That's right. See, we're not going to hit you with the subscribe and ring the bell crap, but we'll hit you with that every now and then.

high confidence · Jared: 'Mark Ritchie...is the younger brother of Steve Ritchie. He was known for his crossover habitrails'

  • “They've really gone all in. So, talking about this table, the idea, I guess, Tarantino wan[ts to]...”

    Jared Morgan @ Pulp Fiction licensing discussion — Indicates significant creative involvement and investment from Tarantino in game design

  • “I think that's where the Foo Fighters one is probably why it's hitting that right chord because it's mainstream enough.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Foo Fighters cross-generational appeal — Analysis of why Foo Fighters achieves broader audience appeal vs niche music tables

  • “They understand that for those tables, while it may not appeal from a music perspective for some people, the art will draw them in. So it's smart. It's really smart.”

    Chris Freiberg @ Art direction strategy discussion — Recognition of Stern's deliberate strategy to use visual appeal (Dirty Donny art) to broaden music table audience

    • Mark Ritchie
    person
    Jack Dangerperson
    Dirty Donnyperson
    Blockade Pinball Podcastorganization
    Netherworldorganization
    Sunshine Coast Pinballorganization
    Steve Ritchieperson
    Pinball Hall of Fameorganization
    Tarantinoperson
    Ace Gogi Korean Barbecueorganization
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pulp Fiction features 250 iconic dialogue lines and 5 licensed songs; indicates significant creative and financial investment in IP licensing

    high · Trailer content lists '250 iconic lines of dialogue and five licensed songs'; hosts note 'They've really gone all in'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern deliberately uses Dirty Donny art across music tables (Foo Fighters, Aerosmith, Metallica) to broaden appeal beyond music-specific audiences

    high · Chris: 'they understand that for those tables...the art will draw them in...not make Elvis and Rolling Stones again'; recognized strategy across all three music titles

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Godfather priced at $16k (LE) and $12k (standard LE); hosts identify this as commercially unviable for operators and unsustainable market pricing

    high · Jared: 'They'll never get a return on investment...on a 12 grand pinball machine'; Chris: '$3,000 more than most Stern Premiums'

  • ?

    announcement: Three major game announcements within one month create collector pressure and FOMO; hosts note unprecedented release density

    high · Chris: 'three brand new tables have been announced and are already selling...literally within the past month'; Jared: 'there's so much real pinball being released at the moment, it is ridiculous'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Foo Fighters Premium/Pro tier differentiation: Premium includes magnet and pop-up post 'Overdrive' feature absent from Pro; in-lane targets present in both

    high · Jared confirms magnet 'does not exist on the Pro model'; Chris identifies Overdrive as Premium-exclusive feature

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Tarantino involved in Pulp Fiction game creative direction; involvement level unclear but apparent from hosts' commentary

    medium · Jared: 'Tarantino wan[ts to]...' (transcript cuts off); context implies directorial involvement in design decisions

  • ?

    technology_signal: Industry-wide adoption of all-metal construction (rails, targets) even in entry-level Pro models, moving away from plastic components

    high · Chris: 'Everything's metal...I think this seems to be the standard now, like for even Pro games, we'll have the metal rails'

    • 2:03
    Yeah, we don't do that. You'll subscribe if you want to, basically. Wait, did we just do that? Keep reminding me. All right. And we kind of did. But we don't at least have like a lower third that says ring the bell and subscribe every single time we do a video. Oh, my God. Right.
    2:20
    Yeah. No, thank you. All right. What's going on? I'm trying to think. Was there anything of note?
    2:29
    Well, I went up for a little trip up the north coast where there's this Sunshine Coast pinball, and they've got all the recent Sterns, all Stern Insider Connected, including the Dr. No at the moment. So we just went up there, like everything from Black Knight, the latest Black Knight, but premium with the upper play field and everything. And they've got like a Pro Turtles. They've got a Pro Mandalorian.
    3:06
    Everything's there for you to play. And they've also got like a selection of older System 8s, 11s, classic Belly Williams. So really, you can find something there to play. and it was really really good it was fun put this i've got some insider connected achievements on a couple of games that i've never that i played before but never were insider connected so i just started racking up all these achievements because i know how to play how long of a trip does it take you to get to uh either netherworld or like this place you know what's the uh distance from home to location okay so from from here where i'm living to netherworld um i can drive into town and that's about a 30 minute trip okay um if i'm driving up to sunshine coast pinball which is in a um a place called nambour uh that's uh it was about an hour and a half in reality away um but there's other stuff to do up there as well you can make a day trip of it really you go up there and just have some lunch and go to the place and then sort of explore the area.
    4:14
    It was really quite fun. In other words, I'm being a baby about not having pinball near me because I think the reality is that there is, within 45 minutes of my house,
    4:29
    I'm sure that, well, I'm pretty sure that there's two locations. I've just never been to either of them.
    4:36
    You need to get in your car, although you're going to have to deal with the traffic, which is horrible. And that's what I don't want to deal with.
    4:44
    I know that there's one here in Orange County, I believe, that's a barcade, and I think they have at least 10 machines on hand. That's good.
    4:58
    It's all right. I guess I'm kind of spoiled with when you'd go to places that had 20-plus. those days are over. Netherworld at any given time has five, four, maybe 14 to 15 pins on site. So that's a large collection for a pub to have. And then I know if I was willing to drive into LA and go to the Valley, which those of you that know the Southern Cal of La Follia, lingo going into the Valley is never a good thing unless you actually live in the Valley.
    5:36
    Right. I know there's a A.C. Goge Korean barbecue place that usually has the latest and greatest stern machines. They're the ones with the room out the back, eh? Yes. Never been to that location.
    5:53
    Yeah, that would be a place I would like to have a look at. It would be very good. And, I mean, ideally, I need to get back to the Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas. but it's not the thing with the pinball hall of fame they don't necessarily always have the latest and greatest that's not their modus operandi and their machines are all playable but they're not like no there'll be faults with them and you know fair enough too it's a massive collection and it's all volunteer run from what I understand.
    6:35
    But like comparing that to when we had the Museum of Pinball here in Banning while that was open those tables were really in good nice condition.
    6:46
    Because they weren't played very much. They were played four times a year. So they would have been in good condition. But we've had the same problem over at the pinball club that I'm now playing at. Again in another suburb called Wynnum which is like another 40 minute drive over a toll road as well um for me but i'll go there because it's fun they got like you know most of the top 20 pinball like top 20 ranked pinball tables there um plus a couple of new sterns and some jay-z jacks and a really good cross-section of games even some old dad dutteries i've got a guns and roses there dutteries which is like a great game um and they you know even they have it's a private collection of this guy who just happens to have it at this conference center because he owns it and uh even they're like they need some work done and it's again the i think kind of the responsibility of us as a pinball club to go in there and help him with maintenance with cleaning that sort of stuff because you know he could pay he could pay one of the techs that I used to get all my pinball work done come along. But, you know, hourly rate, and just for the benefit of us being able to play these games, I don't think that's really, that's not really fair, right? Yeah. So we've got to go there, and for those people who know how to fix them, as long as he has the parts, there's no reason why we couldn't go over there and do a working B and actually get them back up and running again. Yeah. So I guess for me the problem is that, you know, during the week when I'm working, by the time I get off home from work, I'm not going to go to one of these places. It's just too much more time on the day. And then on the weekend, well, if it takes 45 minutes to drive one way, it's going to take 45 minutes to drive back the other way. So, you know, hour and a half, call it two, depending on traffic. And then, well, now add in play time. If I'm going to spend that much time driving there, I'm going to spend at least that amount of time, if not double, playing. Yeah, so that's a whole day out. It's a whole day, and that's just I can't really commit the time. That's why I want someplace that's just local that I could be like, oh i'm gonna go pop over there for a half an hour and i'm just five minutes away or ten minutes away yeah that's what the that's what the dream is um it just is never going to be a reality i don't think no it's just gonna be the same for me too like there's no there's no operator that's going to set up an operation around this area where i'm living like and it needs it because there's a big family contingent here and stuff like that they would get the the the through traffic i think But the thing that's really interesting about where all these places are set up, like Netherworld, it's in a high traffic area right in the middle of an entertainment precinct. With Sunshine Coast Pinball, they've got the best location. It is right outside the cinema. Oh, yeah. You could not get a better location for this place. That's what you need. You need foot traffic locations where people are waiting to do something else. And so in the meantime, they'll go pop in and – because the arcade is never going to be the destination. It never will be. It's a supporting part of the destination. So, yeah, always the through-traffic locations is what you want when you're setting up a place, particularly if your business is just running the games and nothing else. So I think ultimately this is why digital pinball is such a factor for me. It's how I can get my fix and why I want it to keep on getting better and why I really want a virtual cabinet just for that feel and everything. but that being said it kind of segues into what we're going to talk about today we're going to do the rare thing and actually talk about real pinball yeah because there's so much real pinball being released at the moment it is ridiculous yeah like i'm seeing these collectors out there going uh yeah i'm selling this because i need to make room for some stuff because I've got no more room.
    11:04
    So essentially, literally within the past month, three brand new tables have been announced and are already selling. Yes. So I think the first one that got announced was Foo Fighters. Yep. And then Godfather. So Foo Fighters from Stern, Godfather from Jersey Jack, and then Pulp Fiction from Chicago Gaming Company. we're going to spend quite a bit of time talking about Pulp I don't think you can tell I'm a fan I think we're aware of your extreme fandom for the movie but there's other stuff as well in that game which lends itself in a roundabout way to stuff we've already talked about with Digital Pinball which is why we want to talk about it quite a bit yeah um so all that being said why don't we start things off here by actually looking at the trailers for all three games um yeah now heads up i'm gonna have to mute the audio on these because there's so much copyright music in this yeah yeah all of them i don't need check marks against me it has nothing to do with monetization because obviously our site's not monetized or our channel's not monetized but they'll still throw flags at you and yell at for copyright material.
    12:31
    So, yeah, these are going to be muted. Why don't we start with the obscenely... Hold on a second. I said shush.
    12:42
    The obscenely priced Godfather. Yeah. Let's start over here with this one. All right. If I can get my cursor going. There we go.
    12:59
    There's quite a bit of... Look at the glittery table. Right? Like, glitter on the playfield. I mean... That's your opening shot, you go. I've never seen that before. Hmm. That's, um... That's looking expensive. Yeah, I've never seen them do that before, with the playfield. Put, like, actual glittery marks on the table. I mean... That's just...
    13:23
    That is... Where's the gold toilet, is what I want to ask. that if you... Just ornate, right? Obviously, what we're looking at here is the limited edition version.
    13:37
    Hmm. I mean, you're not going to just be able to find regular pinball legs for that. No. That is, yeah. Look at that. Do you notice the LED lighting on the bottom? Oh, yeah. I didn't even realize that. Yeah. laser engraved etchings on the side yep that's going to be really hard and look gold habit rails yep gold habit rails and you got molded figures of all the likenesses in the movie it's just everywhere light show yeah well that's a given just the everything about this is screaming wow you better have a very deep pockets for this thing oh my gosh i cannot hit the pause button fast enough hold on i need to go back because i was just seeing something there that it was that that so it looks like you're having to take over territories i'm assuming yeah yeah i think i think they call them mattresses in the game.
    14:52
    I think it's like a term. It's a thing. So, yeah. There's a lot of modes, if you have a look at it from that perspective. Oh, I'm sure there are.
    15:03
    I mean, Jersey Jack games generally are pretty deep. I mean, Jersey Jack really upped the ante on the display.
    15:14
    Hold on. Going back. Going back, Ian. Too many cuts. Oh, that's underneath the Tommy Gunn guy, I bet, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's, I think it's a spinning disc with a middle sort of, well, I'm going to call it like an actuator on it. When the ball bumps into it, it moves the thing around the top. Both of those things. So you have that, and then that pop bumper topper is ridiculous.
    15:42
    Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But look at that pop. Okay, look here. not only do you have a stand-up right here in the front but you got a whole bunch of stand-ups in the back and it's a pop bumper before you go off that screen though before you shift away yeah have a look at that ring so which the ring the pop bumper ring yeah like it's actually got a nut on the top of it now rather than being punch molded into the thing so you can go and replace the that ring with a new one if you want rather than replacing the entire pop bumper assembly or replace the rods or something like that. Interesting.
    16:20
    And that's good because that would mean you'd be able to replace... If one of the rods snapped or something, you don't have to take the entire pop bumper assembly out, which is such a pain.
    16:29
    But look at this. This is like a little captive. So it's a little horseshoe? Ball goes in. Yeah, look, it's actually... It's a drop target that won't break. Look, it's metal.
    16:40
    They should make them all like that. Especially stern ones, which are rubbish. so yeah all metal drop targets are the way to go but yeah so much stuff going on mid flipper I love that the topper I love the how the habitrail returns around loops back and then drops the ball rather than just going plonk it's just that little bit of extra flair so here's what I like okay so your regular edition and then like I said your golden toilet edition the prices on these are ridiculous this one not that you can buy the limited edition anymore because it's already sold out you can't buy it directly like yourself directly from the manufacturer at the time 16 grand yeah US 16 grand yeah that's hope you like the gameplay and that's what's blowing me away people bought this sold it out before laying one finger on it yeah I just no way I could do that not for 16 grand I mean all I can think of is you really really really must love Godfather I mean this would be grail table for some people. I'm sure. You know.
    18:15
    Meanwhile, the, I'll call it standard edition, not that they call it a standard edition. Well, they just call it a limited edition. So if you have a limited and collectors, but you don't have anything else.
    18:27
    Anyway. Yeah, well. Limited edition. What did we see, Jared? Was it 12 grand? Yeah, something like that. I think 12 grand. Yeah.
    18:37
    That's still a lot of money. That's more than three grand more. You're going to have to be a mob boss in order to afford that, I think. Yeah, that's right.
    18:46
    That's three grand more than most of the Stern pinballs on the line at the moment. And that's most of the Stern premiums on the line at the moment. Yeah, that is severely. You can see where the licensing money went. Wow. Incredible. Yeah, right? Yeah.
    19:04
    That's incredible. You've got to say, though, that it looks great. There's a lot going on on the play field there, and there's lots of modes. So, I don't know.
    19:15
    Potentially, once you get one, you get past the cost. My only thing is that the Jersey Jack machines,
    19:27
    like a common knock on them is that they're so into their modes that they are almost unfriendly to just walk up and play.
    19:40
    So again, I get it. They're catering to the home market. Yeah. But as far as an operator putting one of these out on location...
    19:51
    They'll never get a return of investment. They'll never get a return. It's hard enough to get a return of investment on an 8 grand pinball machine, let alone a 12 grand pinball machine.
    20:02
    Yeah. So, yeah. Good luck seeing one of those out in the wild. Yeah, you won't. You won't at all see one of those out in the wild, unless the person just doesn't care and just wants to put it there.
    20:16
    Or wants to use it as a lost leader draw card for all the other games in their collection. Yeah. All right, let's take a look at Foo Fighters. The Foos. Now, there's no reason that you need to listen to the music. Just think Foo Fighters, The Pretender, and that's literally the entire soundtrack you're hearing. Okay, so this is the pro version that we're looking at first, right? Yeah. I think that's what it says. Or no, this isn't right up here that they're showing. Hold on. That's a premium. Let me let it... There we go. There's that. So this is the pro that they're showing us right now. Yeah.
    20:48
    Okay. I will say I love the art. The art's fantastic. Great art. It's Dirty Donnie again. A lot of fun. Okay, there's a good shot of what the upper... So you've got your, we'll call it the cardboard cutout. Yeah, not the full molding of the, no.
    21:08
    But, I mean, mechanically, the only thing that's different in that area between prone premium is a magnet. Okay. Everything else is the same. Okay.
    21:18
    So flat toy versus three-dimensional toy. And then this is your upper play field. Yeah, that's the upper play field. Kind of. I mean on the Pro Edition this is just a ramp Let just call it what it is It a ramp It a metal ramp though It not a plastic one Yes And I will say thank God no plastic habit rails
    21:42
    Yeah. That's right. Everything's metal. Yeah. So, I mean, that's really good. I think this seems to be the standard now. Like, for even pro games, we'll have the metal rails. Good. Which is good to see. It's definitely good.
    21:57
    All right. Playing around here. That's a Jack Danger in the world. Who designed the game. Some still balls. We're just going to pause there for a moment. Just again, it's... So we've got mid-flipper up here. Yeah. So... Mid-flipper and you've got a... Two lower. That's car. That's not a ramp. That's just our lane, huh? That is a lane, but this... That's the ramp. Two ramps and they're staggered in. I am a fan of the stagger ramps.
    22:29
    Yeah. Rather than being a true fan layout, you've got your close ramp, your long-distance ramp, and then your mid-flip, your mid-ramp. I like that. That's a lot of shots on this game. That's a lot of shots to take. Drop targets, stand-up targets. Yeah, drop targets standard in the Pro build. Bash toy, I guess. I don't know if you would call it a bash toy, but bash area. Once you lock a ball in there, it's a bash. Well, it's another captive ball. Oh, okay. So we've seen that pin mechanism before in X-Men. Okay. So that was the thing that you used to lock balls in Magneto Lock with. So you have a lock ball there, and then you have the capture ball over here. Yeah. Two. Yeah, that's a lot going on. Yeah, that's a lot of stuff in a pro. Like, you normally don't see that much stuff in a pro build. I don't know if I had to just wait one moment. All right, here's your premium. Now the premium. So a big molded thing. and that upper playfield. So it looks like there's still the ramp here. Yeah, you still get the under playfield ramp, but it's the right ramp that feeds the upper playfield, I think. This one here?
    23:40
    Yeah. Oh, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Okay. We'll see as you progress forward, because they'll have a good shot of the upper playfield. Let's see.
    23:51
    Yep, so it feeds in. Yep. oh that's now that's that that is backing up that's the thing that everyone is like that's absolutely losing their mind about that that like death save post is that does it raise and lower it it does yeah so you it's essentially like you it's called overdrive and i think you might actually activate it from the lockdown bar so it's like magna save but you activate it and on demand.
    24:24
    So not only do you have to remember to activate it, but you have to remember to hold your flipper up and nudge.
    24:30
    No, you don't need to nudge. It's designed to pop it up onto that right flipper very consistently. If you rewind it back, if you go back like four seconds or so, it'll show you how the ball just knocks down there.
    24:47
    And there's no tilting involved. Because if I was really good, I'd know how to do this at half speed. Let's see. Oh, you're right. He didn't nudge at all.
    24:54
    Yeah, you just open up the... That overdrive pin is going to be really interesting when you're cradling balls. I think they did in the gameplay video, they showed someone doing some very nice ball management skills there. They dropped... They actually had a captive ball trapped on the right flipper. They need to use overdrive. so they lowered the flipper just with enough time for the ball to pop up on the flipper then flip both up oh wow like you know just to do it like that it was just like oh so good but again i like this frame that we're paused on here just again to look at the art oh i'm so glad they've moved away from photoshop oh and and right there before you go any further look at the targets in the um in the lanes there. So you actually do, if you capture a ball, it will roll back and hit those targets and do something. Oh, I didn't even notice that. That right there. And that's in the Pro as well. So that's a Pro feature as well as a Premium. Oh, that's interesting. Which again, it's loaded with stuff. Does it prevent the ball then from backing up farther?
    26:03
    Like hit that and then just roll down quickly? Or is it able to still go up the lane a ways? I think, because you can see that the slingshots are very shallow. So see how they're basically just one rubber pretty much without the big triangular form factor. So there is an accommodation in there for the ball to do stuff behind there. I don't know if it will quite go straight back up the lane, but I think based on that geometry, it probably would. Okay. At least a little bit. But I mean, that's so cool having a target in the lane. That's another innovative feature. Glad you pointed that out because I would have missed that completely.
    26:37
    So that's like, let's see, you've got the pop-up post, You've got the in-lane targets. You've got the other things that we've seen them before. But those two things, never before seen on a pinball. Okay, let's see what else we can see.
    26:58
    And that's the other thing you get. You get the molded car. Yeah, molded car. Oh, there's the magnet you're talking about, right? Yeah, that's right. So the magnet does not exist on the pro model? It does not, no. Okay.
    27:13
    Yep. I love that the Martian looks like a Mazda Tax Martian. If you have a look at it, it's like... Yeah. I'm expecting it to quack.
    27:24
    All right. So there we have it for Foo Fighters. So that's Foo Fighters. I don't know which one I'd be buying up until now. which again i mean a lot of people are losing their minds over this table where they're like i have to put a deposit down on this one which and everyone has that i've spoken to that collect pinball yeah that's i will have one of those in fact the the guy up at sunshine coast we're talking about food fighter yeah i've actually got three on order so one one for here so like a pro probably for the store a premium for my home and then a couple other ones for people who also wanted me to order them and set them up for them i mean he's got like four or so on order the thing about foo fighters uh and in terms of a music table i think this would be one of your more inviting because a they've been around for years b they're not played only on one type of station their music is it's not that it crosses genres but it's cross-generational and a lot of people have heard at least a few of their songs oh yeah, there's not I think anyone, if you go, what is a Foo Fighters song they'll go, oh well, Monkey Wrench which is in the game, but the actual song list in the game, they've got original songs in the game as well the song list is pretty strong in the game, there's a lot of well-known tracks in there. Because I felt like The Kiss Table, very specific to an audience. Oh, yeah. Same with Iron Maiden. Very specific to an audience. Yeah. The Aerosmith one, well, there's your classic rockers, but young kids aren't going to care a lick about it. I played The Aerosmith Table just yesterday. And I was loving it because I liked that era of Aerosmith and I'm familiar with it. Yeah.
    29:21
    But it's definitely old, Aerosmith not just play era or Nine Lives era. It's a vintage era. The Metallica is verging that's closer to what Foo Fighters was accomplishing.
    29:41
    Again, a lot of people know Metallica. They're pretty mainstream. But if you're somebody that likes pop music, you're not going to care about the Metallica. Same thing with ACDC.
    29:51
    No. So I think that's where the Foo Fighters one is probably why it's hitting that right chord, because it's mainstream enough.
    30:02
    You notice that with Foo Fighters and Aerosmith and Metallica, they're all Dirty Donny art. So all three of them have that art style. At least I'm pretty sure they're all Dirty Donny. so it seems that from music tables to widen the appeal stern are smart enough to realize well we need to make this like we don't want to see you know photoshopped stuff in other words let's not make elvis and rolling stones again i was gonna say rolling stones was the one i was trying to remember yeah things hideous yeah yeah it is it's just really not good at all so they understand that for those tables, while it may not appeal from a music perspective, for some people the art will draw them in. So it's smart. It's really smart. All right, let's take a look then at our last one here. I am going to play the audio just for the very beginning of this because I have to.
    31:04
    Yeah, and then quickly turn it off. And then quickly turn it off, yep. Here we go. I got to do a little bit of this.
    31:11
    Okay, here we go. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
    31:38
    Okay, hold on. I'm going to back it. Why did it just switch to something that is completely not Pulp Fiction? There we go.
    31:50
    I'm like, I don't even know what that game is. I'm just going to point out one thing right here. Oh, look at that metal coin door that looks like a ballet machine. And deliberately, deliberately done. Oh, yeah. I mean, it even has the start button right there. yes it's just it's amazing they had to actually go back and completely retool to produce that coin door i'm curious what is your thought i have a feeling i know the answer but i know what i want the answer to be um more work on the cabinet do you think it's decal or do you think it's stencil it's decal but looking like a stencil i really wish i'm pretty sure it looks too it's too clean to be as it's way too clean but it's definitely in the style of a stencil and that's really really nice yeah i wish everything about this game oh you'll see let we should yeah we'll talk about it we'll just play the trailer here because we i can actually show pictures of this table yeah yep but yeah that was a three-color stencil that back glass has gone early 80s style yep it really is very nice mark ritchie so in case you're wondering about mark ritchie um i had to look this up yes he is the younger brother of steve ritchie he is mark was known for his crossover habit trails so if So think fishtails, taxi. Fishtails, taxi, road kings, diner.
    33:30
    He always likes a lot of things. So this is an interesting design for him. We'll get into what that design is. Yeah, because there's no ramps.
    33:37
    Mm-hmm. Now, I will say, at first glance, I thought that this looked like Mustang because of that. Oh, that big thing in the middle. Yeah. Yep. and because of... Hold on if they go to it.
    33:57
    Not that. That. Yeah, that's the thing that makes it look like Mustang. That's what makes it look like Mustang. So initially I went, ugh. It's a retame. But it's not.
    34:10
    Because then I started thinking about it. So it's only a two-flipper game. Yeah. That right there, I went, ooh, inline drop targets. Stacked drop targets. And I started thinking, this reminds me a little bit more of centaur or eight ball deluxe yes and there's your era that you're going for that's exactly what they're going for here you know they said they were going to go for um they want a 70s pinball table but no i think they went early 80s yeah they did like definitely early kind of yep because you know that that that at the top there that hole that the ball goes into. Yeah, going back to the magnet.
    34:53
    Went too far. Boing! Love that there's a magnet right there. Love that we have drop targets right here that then leads into the hole.
    35:07
    So, drop targets are always a good thing. Yeah, you can never have enough. Yes. And then that magnet just flings in any which direction.
    35:17
    It's completely random. Well, not completely random, but they can actually target things on the play field with it. We'll call that the $1,500 topper.
    35:27
    Yeah, because that is kind of what it is. There's a lot going on in that topper, but I don't know if it's $1,500 worth. Yeah.
    35:36
    Oh, wait, is there any more? Oh, that's just who is in it. 250 iconic lines of dialogue and five licensed songs. the important ones as well, not the ancillary ones. No. Like, they've really gone all in.
    35:57
    So, talking about this table. So, the idea, I guess, Tarantino wanted to commission a pinball table.
    36:09
    I'm not exactly sure who he started talking with first, whether it was play mechanics, because they're the ones that are teaming up with Chicago Gaming Company for this.
    36:22
    But then Wind got heard over at CGC and realized that there was a project on the table, and I think it just kind of morphed from there where it was like, well, why don't we actually just, rather than build you a one-off, let's build something for everybody. But the idea was, yeah, that classic 70s style. now but with i think there's a there was a a reason why they went with chicago gaming because they wanted that 90s or 80s william experience because one of the things that in the in the long documentary that um straight down the middle did which please folks watch it it's really amazing it's one of the best like featurettes on pinball it's an hour long and I thought for sure I was just going to start fast forwarding through it and nope I watched the entire thing I was also surprised absolutely go and check that out but in it they say that they looked around at a number of different manufacturers, this is play mechanics the team went alright so how are we going to build this who are we going to contract to build it And they went, well, you know, Chicago Gaming has a platform they're using for the Belly Williams tables. They were actually down to the actual processor clock speed they were looking at here. So they were going, well, these guys have a platform that's close to what we want. They were thinking of a chipset that they want to use based on the fact that most of the design team are actually ex-Williams. Yeah, they are. So they're going, we want that feeling of that game, and we want the sort of capabilities of that era. So we're choosing the Chicago Gaming platform that you're using for the rewings because actually it's era accurate. Yeah. And that's why they went with Chicago Gaming. So let's just bring up this photo here.
    38:21
    So this is obviously the – there's only two editions. and there's no difference between the two except for extra bits of bling so yeah you have your special edition and then your limited edition there's two standard editions one of them it seems is more for on site because it'll have the standard black door and coin mechanics with a push button start to the side and then there's this special edition they sell for the same price which is these are 8 grand oh Foo Fighters Pro Edition 7 grand the limit premium is about 97 yeah and then the limit edition which I don't think you can get anymore is 12 yeah so think about that in terms of if you were to buy of these three if you were wanting to get one what you could buy for your money.
    39:26
    That's why we were laughing at Godfather, because for Godfather, you could literally buy two of these. You could buy yourself both a Foo and a Pulp Fiction, or you could have that one Godfather.
    39:36
    Yeah. So, yeah, the Steel Coin Door is only on the one special edition, and then this grill here is only on the limited edition. Otherwise, it's your standard Bally grill. which if you again just go back and look at what eight ball deluxe or firepower look like and you'll see what the standard grill here was um yeah and then this topper love the fact that they've they've kept the old school neck for the back box and surprisingly only one speaker as well one speaker in the head and i think they've also got one in the body but that's again watch the featurette they've done some pretty cool stuff in there the the the sound designer um for this game is something feel yeah david thiel and david has been around ever since the he's actually done some sound design for games as early back as the era of got leave that i have okay um so the 1980s got leave games um all the way through duddery sega pinball to belly williams so he's had his hand on all different types of sound design systems throughout that the era so his experience with being able to manipulate sound on limited hardware is just second to none this guy knows how to do it Anyway, continuing on. Yeah, so the pinball topper and the mirror blades and a shaker motor. That's literally what you're getting with the limited edition. So otherwise, the play field, the layout is identical. The toys are identical.
    41:27
    So, yeah. Yeah, the experience of the play field is unchanged between the editions. And that seems to be the standard now when they're doing, except for Stern, with all the other pinball companies out there that do stuff like this. And then there's Backglass. Oh, my God. There's a whole story about the Backglass and the design of it, just the art design. But the score displays, you can't just go buy plasma-filled gas displays anymore. and they had to figure out a way of recreating this with LEDs. Now, did I get it wrong? Did I say LEDs or is it LCDs?
    42:11
    They're LEDs. So they're like – I've got them in my Gottlieb machine, so you can buy them off the market displays, and they're just LED segments, individual units that they've just put all together on there. So these ones are – they are alphanumeric displays. I thought when you saw it, they were only alpha. Yeah, I'm almost thinking of this as like Tomcat F-14.
    42:37
    Yeah, that era. So again, we're going like playfield-wise, you're looking at 81. Backglass-wise, we're looking at like 86, 87.
    42:49
    You know, in terms of design there. I keep on going through some other pictures here. oops it helps if I have my cursor on the right thing there's a good look at your uh your play field here um so again when I thinking you know that you got your in row of drop targets here you got your magnet over here I love just how clean your display area is Yeah. The way they've actually incorporated all the lights into the artwork as well. Like you've got... I was just going to say, just look at the negative space with the blue.
    43:30
    Yes. It's deliberate. Yeah. Your eye doesn't sit there and dance around going, What am I looking at?
    43:39
    You're drawn to that sense of the collection of lights. Like, it's just... They've really... Again, the pedigree of the people making this table, they've really gone and leaned heavily into their knowledge of the era and just put together something that's really faithful to the way games were designed back then.
    44:01
    I mean, just at first glance, obviously you can tell that you're probably going to have to light up all the Pulp Fiction lights. your multipliers are here. You can tell there's five people that you need to collect. Yeah. These are your mode lights. Yeah. You can get to your wizard.
    44:17
    And there's a whole story. Josh Sharp did the rule set on this. Yes. And there's a whole discussion about them wanting to go old school with making it a table that you could just walk up to and know how to play by sight. but then there is each mode has a depth to it for those that really like mining but it's not necessary for progression per se no it's just if you want to really you know get the points yeah um you can you can do that sort of stuff but like progression towards that that wizard mode as well is not easy no like you like to get up to the wizard mode you're going to have to work for it I think, not Scott, Josh was saying it took him about a year to crack it. Yeah. Oh, this is also only to the limited edition. It's the Bad Mother Flipper edition, which is, love that. So you get a wallet with guns on it. Yeah.
    45:21
    Keep on looking through the images here. There's your fully molded character with the suitcase that spins around full of light. What's inside? LEDs.
    45:31
    Yeah. It's very well done, too. Here's Vincent. I just love the, say what again? Here's the thing. This is what started grabbing me. When they said 250 lines of dialogue, you start realizing how quotable this movie is. Yeah, there's so many quotes. And I started thinking about, because I don't believe they had any specific recording for this machine. I don't think they had anybody come in. Um, maybe they had Tarantino do a line or two because he was in direct contact with them, approving all the art and everything. But, but so then I was like, well, how are you going to call out jackpots? How are you going to call out extra balls and everything else like that? And then I started thinking there's probably lines of dialogue in here that will reference and mean the same thing. Um, cause they started spitting out some of the lines of dialogue from the movie and I immediately knew what that would be used for within the game. so uh big hoonaburger there's a royale is it the royale or oh it probably is the royale i was thinking the big hoonaburger i love the the the watch nice little touch of putting richie's name in there yeah i really like that as well and the classic the there's a whole backstory to why it's the 10 to 2 orientation with these clocks as well and that's not that's not a specific thing to this there's a reason why you always see clocks done like that as well and i can't tell you what it is you have to go and look at the internet there's a nice shot of that coin door just gorgeous love that yeah that is just brushed metal and it's beautiful they basically had to set up they had to retool specifically to get all the dyes and everything to produce that coin door which honestly is probably good news for all those people out there that need coin doors because there's a Belly Williams replacement out there. Okay, so this right here, this honeycomb,
    47:30
    this normally would be over the entire grill on a Belly Williams, or excuse me, on a Belly machine. Well, I think Williams also at that era, they all were using the same stuff. They were, yeah. So this is just a little extra flash.
    47:47
    Yeah, that's all the pictures there that I have. That's really nice. Right there. But if I come over, let's exit that, and let's drop down to here. We can see some topper in action.
    48:08
    And this topper, I think the reason why it's one and a half grand is that it's got so many controllable lights on it. And each of those characters moves independently, so they're not a common gearbox. Right. There's two motors driving each one of those characters.
    48:23
    I think there's like, I think they said an excessive amount of lights in there too. There's like 100 lights in total. So there's a lot going on up there. Just some closer detail on here. It's interesting. This is very much all about Jules and Vern and very little about Butch because you only see Butch. There he is. That's it. And then obviously whatever goes on in Zeke's stays at Zeke's. Yeah, that's right.
    48:59
    There's just a lot to love about the design of this. If you're a fan of the game, there's so much fan service in this game. And that there, that is something that people who like spinners will love. And it's a hall sensor spinner, so it's not connected with the micro switch. It's exactly the same technology. Well, it's similar technology to what they used on the, I think it's a lead zeppelin machine with the thing that appears in the middle. And it's got the spinner in it where it's on that little thing. So that's also the same thing. You just rip it and it just keeps spinning and spinning and spinning because there's no mechanical resistance. Yeah. So you'll be able to rip those spinners really hard, and they'll just keep on ripping for you as you spin through. It's pretty cool. Oh, I see, yeah. Yeah, there's no why. It was the discussion that was going on was, so how do you bring modern into this, technically this era of table? So they were talking about how that up kicker sends the ball into the back box. That would never normally happen, and there was a whole subway system. um so even though there's no ramps there is a subway system um so that's kind of interesting so it's again taking that best of of the old school design but throwing in the modern twist um i just the thing that appeals to me so much about this is it is i love system 11 and this is and i love you know the two machines i have are eight ball deluxe and firepower now i really don't give two cares about firepower um i would trade that in a heartbeat for a centaur and if i had those two machines and then you threw this right next to them everything about it would fit in just perfect from that back box oh it'd be correct yeah it would just yeah fit in so even the coin door in the coin door would fit yep but everything would look the same yeah yeah yeah so i really just 11 and system eight collectors yeah this is like an obvious choice for them to just slide into their collection and have something that gives them so much more longevity in play um but still looks the part in their lineup all right yeah really cool and and the i love that with the audio yes you have the r-rated audio or you can have it bleeped um so i'm glad there's that choice to be in there Yes. Because there's a time and place for both.
    51:38
    I definitely couldn't have the R-rated audio on here when the kids are here, but when the kids aren't here. Right. Exactly. Yes. The soundtrack songs that they picked are definitely the songs that you remember from the movie most.
    51:53
    Yeah. So that's really nice. And then the way they integrate some of them into the gameplay is great. the thing that caught me a lot though was with talking about the rules and it made me think about things that we've just been talking about in regards to Zen and their design where it's again that making something that is appealing to walk up to and play and not have to go to the rules to look at right but it's the thing about that is all intuitive yeah but it's not just that shallow the depth is there it's that after you've played it and are used to these things that then you start going in deep but even and they made mention of uh some of the items that were it's it's the standard pinball tropes of how to light things and how to get things going.
    52:56
    Yeah, you've got the really sort of basic things that you know from that era, right? So I'm just scrolling down to have a look at it. So the rules and code, this is what you see on the lockdown bar. So the apron, it's like to skill shot, you just make the top saucer with the five arrows to score the skill shot. That's all you do. You plunge accurately to make the skill shot. Easy. then your 1, 2, 3, 4 lanes give you either bonus extra ball or lights royal which is hurry up so these are the sort of thing, I won't go through each rule but the rules are just one line and that's it you don't need to know anything more, they will fit on the apron if you can't fit your rules on the apron the primary rules on the apron that you would encounter typically when you're playing a game for the first or like first to fifth time then your rules aren't ordered correctly or presented the way you roll out your gameplay in your game that should be your first clue if you've got it right or not can you put it on the apron can people understand it quickly and then it's uh for me it's also it's the smart choice of using music.
    54:16
    Zen kind of takes this one piece of music and ride the entire game the entire way. And it's like, no, you need that ebbs and flows, the starts and stops of everything to let you know that auditory cues help you know that you have done something or you're in a mode,
    54:34
    you know, your hurry ups, all that jazz. Even if it's something as small as like a little leitmotif or something that plays over the top of the bass music to punctuate when you're starting and when you're finishing. You might have a starting leitmotif and then an ending leitmotif of music when you're getting close to finishing. Or to give you that feeling that you're counting down, you're losing time, you're about to time out. Using something like Garfield as an example of that, you could have four modes running. You wouldn't know when they time out Because they just get the countdown in the back box in the DMD. You've got no idea when they're going to land. There's no urgency to what you're doing in the game. This is sound design. This sound design element is what Zen needs to focus on in their games. And callouts that are specific and meaningful. They did it very well in Snoopy. We're talking about 250 callouts.
    55:36
    That's a lot. I would think that Zen at most, like, let's just take a look at, like, Mandalorian. I'd be surprised if they had 50.
    55:46
    I think you might run into more during the modes. It's just that the modes are kind of hard to get to in the game. But if you think about it, each sort of phase of the mode, and this is where they kind of do it right. Like, if you think of that first mandatory mode that you have to get in the Mandalorian, where you're doing the um the ig8 um mode like they step you through the scene that that whole episode is sort of played out in parts you got to get all the all the cardboard cutouts down first sure then you got to shoot the thing and they tell you they sort of roll that out when when they're doing it through the thing so the call out wise i think there's a lot but specific shots like shoot the left ramp or shoot the right ramp there's none of that i also just think that um a lot of times in these kind of games you start hearing the exact same call out over and over again yep and you're like oh god stop and that's where it's like if you only had a whole bunch more call outs that you could shake it up with that would still relate to the mode or still you know to the character that you're you know dealing with um but as you've you know great you've knocked down one thing well now the call out is different as you knock down the second thing and now the call is different as you knock down 30 i don't know i just i feel that um the two areas that zen is lacking is in their call-out choices and then their lighting decisions um and again looking at what they're doing with this they were talking about you know what's something that we can do that they couldn't do in this era of pinball and it has to do with lighting and they were like modes the lighting changes completely um yeah and i don't think that zen spends a lot of time on their lighting because their originals they light them for playing on a video screen with everything evenly lit not on site where you actually need your gi lighting to do things um that's right so it'd be nice if they would spend a little more time programming maybe not even just programming maybe placing lights yeah because again if we were thinking about that Garfield table there's just that arch of lights that literally are there for no purpose they don't even do a good job of signaling anything it's just hey look yeah there's some interest they're identifying shots that you need to take and they just scroll they just strobe and scroll without any real sort of directional meaning. Like, yeah, shoot here, but not how many times do I need to shoot here? And that's what you want those insert lights to do. Like, we've said this so many times now, it feels like we've just broken records, but it's like there's the design cues that you need to follow so people understand what you need to do in a game. Yeah, and I think if you contrast pulp from Foo Fighters in terms of you got the one that's being very era specific and going for an earlier simpler era and then one that is obviously of the times and very modern but I think you don't have to get bogged down in oh my god we gotta compete with something like Foo let's go for simpler era you can still go for simple and still make it deluxe looking and and interesting um using your modern tech so i just i you know like them to strive for that and you know if you compare both even though food fighters is of the modern era of today and pulp fiction is of a era past both of them know how to call shots out yes like they they like even though they're era specific games they still look at the way they call out shots and show you the shot making in the game and make it really obvious what you need to shoot that hasn't changed no so and this is the point like it's just no matter what era you're from there are things that you need to think about when you're laying out how a game tells the user what they need to do so let's let's play hypothetical here jared um we're going to say that yes you've got the 9700 so if you wanted to purchase uh foo you could or you could purchase for that same price for 9700 you can actually get the uh limited edition version fancy topper one the fancy topper version of um pulp fiction where's your money going it's going to food fighters um mainly because there's so much innovation in food fighters that it is it's got enough new stuff in it that it will be that it it actually is worth that extra money you know um the like i'm not a like I'm not a super big fan of Pulp Fiction. Yeah. But I do enjoy the odd Foo Fighters track. And that alone is probably enough to sway me to go to Foo Fighters. And also, it's just you get a lot more stuff in Foo Fighters than you do on Pulp Fiction.
    61:26
    There's a lot more stuff to play. I like upper playfields too. You don't. Well, that's a different kind of upper playfield because it's not dominating. It's just a corner. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. The upper playfield is not a real big fan. It's not Game of Thrones. Yes, that's what I'm not a fan of, is that giant upper playfield kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, for me, I think the August... Hello, folks.
    61:50
    It'd be Pulp for me. The two factors that play into that for me is that, one, I like a table that makes me laugh. And I'm going to say that Pulp is going to make me laugh a lot. All the time.
    62:05
    It's going to make me smile. Just at the call-outs. Foo, yeah, I'd be humming along. But I just love a good, fun call-out. And then the other part is I feel that...
    62:21
    So... A lot of these new pins have come out, and I'm like, oh, I'd be interested in playing that. Oh, I'd be interested in playing that. But I can't get a sense of what the play is or how to play the pinball. I saw Pulp, and I immediately knew how to play that pinball. What you need to do. Yeah. That's true. And to me, that's the factor. That's one of the reasons why I love Adam's Family. It's a table you can just walk up to and immediately know how to play. It's just obvious.
    62:51
    And so those are the kind of things that I like. The same with Medieval Madness. Massive big bash toy, I'm going to hit that a lot.
    63:03
    It's easy. Yeah. so now if only I had $8,000 and didn't have to spend that on something else yeah had to spend it on this can we be put into a situation where it's I'm sorry you have to have a pinball machine you can't have anything else and you have $10,000 therefore you must spend it on something that's available now too like it's something you can buy now or at least put your deposit down so you're in the queue. Yeah. Like, that is what you need. It's got to be brand new in box. It's got to be... And this would be... I was actually looking at the Foo Fighters pinball machine, looking at the Australian dollar conversion for it and going, hmm, do I? Or do I even remotely consider somehow doing this? Do I sell my two Gottliebs and get this?
    64:00
    And I was going, I won't have to because there's going to be so many operators with this thing out in the street. I already know that for a fact. So I don't need to spend that money to actually have it. I can just go and use someone else's for a couple of bucks and see what it's like. And then maybe when they start coming back onto the resale market, which they do, there's a very big turnaround for CERN games here in Brisbane. People sell them and flick them around all the time. So if it comes to the point later on when I go, yeah, I actually really like that enough that I play it, he's in the arcade and I want one, then I can do it for maybe a little bit less down the track. The other thing that I like about Pulp is that it basically entirely Williams parts and then the electronics are Chicago Gaming Yeah But I mean Williams parts they time
    64:56
    And as they say on the website, there's a reason why their warranty is so much longer than most other manufacturers' warranty, because they're like, these parts last.
    65:04
    Well, that's right. Unfortunately, these parts are all now produced in China, and they don't last as long as they do. because even though there's a manufacturing sheet for them, something about them is you don't get as long out of the parts. People are commenting about this now, like all the parts that you flip the stops and stuff like that with the brackets, they're not lasting as long as the ones in the 90s did because they're not using strong enough metal and stuff like that. So they're still better. Give me a Belly Williams drop target bank any day over the Stern ones. I've been playing Dr. No recently, there's like this free bank drop target that you need to hit to activate the lock in the pro version the ball like if you try and shoot them these are the ones that are direct on so you have the same problem in Stranger Things as well, that if you do a direct shot, not a glancing shot the ball just bounces straight off the target and comes back down and doesn't drop it Oh, it just like, it's, you got to have like a soft to medium shot, not a hard shot. And there's a mechanism problem in them where there's like the thing that stops the drop target from like just dropping down when it resets a little thing that locks the little lip of the drop target over it. It's plastic. It's not metal. So it breaks like all the time. One of the operators at Netherworld was saying he had to get rid of his, Stranger Things because or he said I either have to redesign how the drop target works from that perspective or flick it because I can't have it on site it's not reliable enough so is that the same thing with Chicago Gaming that their parts are all made in China and also they're well no they're using original like Belly Williams mechs right so that's what I'm saying I like the idea of original Belly Williams parts yeah now yeah I do too here's the dilemma that I would have if I had again I have the money I have to spend it on a pinball machine now would I buy pulp or would I buy Cactus Canyon because I really like Cactus Canyon and I like the in theory the new code not that it's been released yet but based off Cactus Canyon Continued, I really like it. And it's a funny table, and it's a fun table. But they actually put continued code in the Cactus Canyon remake, though? Because that's a separate thing. No, this is what Lyman was working on. He was working on a, not Cactus Canyon Continued, but something that would be of that vein, where it's just a completely different code for the table. So balanced code, because it wasn't really balanced. And, you know, we both know the stuff that was missing from the Cactus Canyon code was, like, you know, some animations and, like, a match animation. Well, in fact, we never actually got to Bionic Bart.
    68:21
    Oh, yeah, that's true. Oh, yeah, was that missing completely? That was missing completely. Right. So there was no wizard mode in there? No, no.
    68:30
    It was literally, like, version 0.7 of the code. It wasn't even one. No. So that's what they've upped it to. They've got it. They filled in all the stuff that the designers originally wanted. But then since then, obviously rules and code have changed in modern era pinball. And that's what Lyman was working on was a modern era code for that table.
    69:00
    Right. I if given the choice between Pulp and this is sight unseen this is me never having played Pulp but having played Cactus Canyon hmm that again I'd if it was around the same price they are I would probably I'd probably go for Cactus because again more stuff to do like you know it's so tough.
    69:33
    Yeah. Or I'd say, wait, you want me to buy Godfather limited edition? No, I'll just buy both of those. No, in that case, I honestly, I'd probably buy Pulpan too. I really would probably just go that direction.
    69:46
    Yeah. I would definitely, if I had, like, if I had Godfather limited edition money, yeah, I'd be buying, definitely buying a, probably, I might do a pro um Foo Fighters yeah I think I could probably live with the pro like there's some cool features in that premium like the upper play field in the post but I think with the post thing they just implement that as a virtual ball safe I'd say probably in the game so um you know what would probably really make me happy?
    70:28
    What's that? If we were getting digital versions available to us. Oh, yes. And you know what? Here's where if you were to say, hey, this is getting released right now as a physical machine, but you could have this as a digital version for 50 bucks, I would be very tempted, very tempted to be able to play it right now and just go. If I had, and again, this is me, if I had a cabinet version, you know, like once Zen finishes their cabinet so that you're actually having true animated back glass and it's fully going, working with lights and, you know, actuators and all that stuff in a cab form. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about console version because I don't think that'd be a steep price to pay for just a regular console version.
    71:27
    Oh, yeah. I guess I'm thinking of, you know how at games they're charging $25 for that cat in the hat pack or whatever, right? but I'm thinking of that exactly where it's, that's the only place you can get that is in their cabinet yeah so make it a cabinet exclusive thing or something like that sure, that you know eventually is going to be coming to consoles maybe a year or two down the line but yeah, do the year exclusivity for people who have the cabinet and do all that sort of stuff we're sort of speculating that the way they're going to do cabinet is probably a pinball pass related thing yeah um moving forward so if that's the case and you're paying a monthly subscription then that's a subscription benefit you get access to this game how great would that be though if if i mean if chicago gaming is starting to do uh their own pin you know new pins on top of what they've already done with just their DMDs.
    72:41
    It's just like, oh, if you could just partner. If any of these, if either of the, Stern or Jersey Jack or...
    72:50
    Spooky. Spooky or, what am I missing? Dutch? No. Yeah, that technically does bill. Is it American Pinball that does bill? Oh, yeah, American Pinball. And Hot Wheels and all that. Hot Wheels and then, well, Pinball Brothers just because I want that Aliens table.
    73:08
    I just, if only they could partner with these companies. Yeah. Then I wouldn't care about how far away these machines are.
    73:17
    No. And I wouldn't either. The thing is, though, I have been, as you know, playing in the events fairly regularly now and really enjoying that aspect of Pinball FX. It's great. I love the competition. It gives you the feeling of an actual tournament, but with a much wider selection of players. And when you're ranking up towards the top end of that leaderboard, you actually feel, hey, you know what? There's lots of really good players out there playing these games, and I'm not terrible at ranking these. And I've gone and I've taken those skills that I've been... It might be, let's say, Creature from the Black Lagoon is on rotation. and so you're playing that in a in a unusual format like you know it might be flips or it might be time limited or something and you know you're adapting your play style to suit that in fx but you then go and take that same play style where you know that if i'm playing at a time i want points that that training about how you actually exploit points in that table translates very well into a tournament setting so you can take that same learning and apply it to a tournament game and do very well and i have tested that out at the wyndham center which is has a lot of the like you know top 20 ranked tables of all time and it works like i got first last time and would you say because this was my experience that unlike pinball arcade your muscle memory that you get from pinball effects doesn't work against you on a real machine it doesn't really no because pinball obviously worked against you on a real machine you got so used to the muscle memory that you went to a real machine it was like screwed you up completely yeah you do you definitely do need to it's more about understanding the rules and getting your head around the rules to make that muscle memory. You're always going to have to go to a table and see how it bounces. Oh, sure. The first thing I do when I walk up to a creature from the Black Lagoon is I test the kiss plunge to see if I can get that first start to sequential film. Because that's something that I'm doing regularly now. I'm actually targeting sequential film. It's not only that, but as you do that, how it bounces off the left flipper, how that dead pass is. That tells you everything you need to know.
    75:53
    Because that's all about move your car and being able to move your car reliably and safely. Yep, absolutely. Those are two things I test whenever I walk up to that table. And you get used to thinking about that when you're playing these tables in Pinball FX. Yeah. So, again, it's just having the ability to be exposed to the rules and be able to experiment with different play strategies on a table that when you go to the arcade and you're standing in front of one of these machines and you're putting your dollary bucks in, you actually get maximum value out of the game. You actually have more fun when you're playing on site, maybe to the detriment of the operator because they're not getting your money as fast. But at the same time, you're understanding, you're able to have more fun when you're on site. And I think that makes you want to go and play these things for real more. it makes me want to do it yeah like i look forward to the wednesday the tournaments because they're great i may get a chance to play on creature from the black lagoon again have a bit of fun with this you know it's just like having digital versions of these games it's it's not detrimental to your want to actually want to play them when you see them and i know what because i've been asked this already in comments sections before um what's preventing zen from partnering with these companies and my gut i mean other than just you know licensing logistics but in terms of that licensing etc you it can't be like what stern did with pinball arcade where it was sure you can license the tables for us oh and you have to pay all the licensing fees no it needs to be a true partnership where it's got to be a partnership yeah where the company is 100 is helping to pay for that licensing of the IP. Because that's the only way to get one. They're writing it into the contracts that they could potentially in the future be a digital version of this. Well, no, no, Stern did exactly that, but then you're going to also have to pay on top of that, right? So that's already worked in that a digital version could be in the offering, but with an additional fee. What I'm saying is that if they were to, say, partner with Stern, Stern would also have to pony up not 100% of that fee, but at least 50% of that fee for Zen to be able to afford to bring it to us. And I don't think until that time happens, when those companies are willing to invest in that manner also, I don't think we're going to see these partnerships. That's just my gut. Because as we saw with Indy, it's way too freaking expensive for them to do this. Indy, I actually think you make a really valid point there, Chris. Like Indy is the price we will be paying for each of these Stern machines if they were produced. Minimum. Like that is. Minimum. And that is. And I think it would be even more. Truth be told, I think it would be even more.
    79:02
    I think it would be at least 20. You're probably right. And we know that Indiana Jones, by far, based on its licensing, is basically a lost leader for the studio. Exactly. It draws you in, but as far as a sustainable business model, like pricing your tables like that and having to cover most of it with licensing, that wouldn't be sustainable for the studio at all. And especially on a music license table, forget it. I mean, because literally that was, that John Williams music was not cheap at all. Now you start talking about a band with 15, 20 songs in a machine? Yeah. Good Lord, the publishing rights on that is insane. So. Yeah. you'd have to I think in the case of this Food Fighters machine the band were very amenable to doing it was a little bit like the situation with Elvira and Cassandra being very pro pinball and wanting to do all that she could to get those pinball machines out and I think in that case they can get a little bit more creative with how they license the music like there could be some some royalty discounts that might just be taken off the table there you know just so that they could actually work with the the two companies and again it comes down to that partnership doesn't it yes like it is wanting to do this project enough that you actually are making it commercially viable to do it and i think because you can see oh if you have a look at the have a look at the bill of materials and what you get on a Foo Fighters table compared to a Led Zeppelin table, right? Like, Led Zeppelin is nothing. It's like a meh. Where is the fun on that table? I already forgot it came out.
    81:08
    Huh? I already forgot it came out. Exactly. It's that memorable because there's just nothing in the game. Yeah. Like, you know, you've got to buy a premium to have even remote amount of fun on it. like the pro is an absolute bill of materials cost cutting exercise and that that is a good example of we want to make this leds up and pin but we've got to pay the licensing and that eats into the bill of materials that people are willing to pay for this table so therefore the design has to suffer whereas you go and have a look at something like um food fighters with like two innovations in pinball added into it plus a really good art package plus like some very common pinball tropes in their like upper play fields and stuff in the in the premium where you're going clearly are not as much money had to be spent on the licensing for the music here yeah and i think that's that's the real the key to making these these heavily licensed tables music tables in particular work well and i think it's telling also what uh we've been told by mel with zen where he says that they've got a whole list of licensor that we're approaching them and wanting to and that's the key and that's that's right there you're not begging you know i'm going cap in hand going please sir may i go and produce your license and then going sure throw more money at us no instead they're coming in saying hey we like what the potential of this is we'll cover this cost capability. Yeah. We'll cover this cost. You cover the other, and together we'll have a good partnership. That's right. That's the difference. All right. Well, that was a whole different kind of discussion we've had in a long time, Jared. That was fun, actually. Like, talk a bit about Rio. We don't do it often. No. Because, honestly, there's a lot of really, really good podcasts. I was just going to say, there's a lot of better shows out there for that. For real pinball? We are not the droids you're looking for. Honestly, that's straight down the middle. Again, highly would recommend do not pass go. Yeah, we'll make sure that there's links to that. We will, yeah, because you've got to check it out. It's amazing. So well produced. I almost thought that we should do a React video to that video, and then I was like, no, because I don't know how that works.
    83:30
    Well, also, too, we didn't want to put too much of the footage from that feature in there because I don't think we're able to. Yeah, I mean, that's their work. That's my point. It's like, that's straight down the middle's work. I'm not going to take from them. I'll take the trailer that was made available and, you know, from Chicago Gaming and that's it. That's it.
    83:51
    Again, they say everything a million times better than we'll be able to. Yeah. So, and if we just played the video, I'd just be like, the entire time anyway. It'll be very one-sided It'll be like a let's watch Not a let's play It's interesting As of this recording March 18th and 19th for Jared We haven't heard anything about Next pinball show No, it's been nothing announced And everyone's And in the blockade discord Everyone's sort of asking the question Well, it's a bit weird that they're so quiet. And also, I think one of the people in there was saying that, why was the celebration stream cancelled and then not rescheduled? Or like a make-up pinball show or something? I mean, it's not much point having a celebration, a launch party when, you know, two weeks after the launch has happened. So I get probably why, if it didn't happen, they were having streaming issues. It's like, well, you know, we're not going to do that. It doesn't really make sense. But we also know that the pinball show only gets released and produced when they have something to talk about, which is the right way to do it. So I would think we could probably expect end of March, maybe mid-April for the next pinball show. Yeah, so maybe next time when we have our show, we'll have actually something specific to talk about of that nature. Lord knows we had no idea we were going to talk about what we talked about today until this week. literally, I started messaging Jared, you need to watch this video now.
    85:33
    And I did. And we went, yes, we both need to talk about this. This ties in very nicely to everything we've been saying up until this point about game design. So for next time, we keep on asking you folks, is there any game that you want us to be playing, pinball-wise, for a Let's Play? We're very much open to your suggestions. So please, pop on the socials, suggest things to us. Hop in the comments section, suggest things to us.
    86:02
    Get onto Discord. Tell us what you like. Yeah. But otherwise, as is the norm, you know, Jared, what are we going to talk about next time?
    86:13
    It'll be stuff and things. Yeah, we will. For sure. All right, folks. Until then, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.