81: 2024 Review Megabanger!

Pinball Party Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·Dec 31, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

2024 pinball review: strong Metallica remaster, mixed game quality, JJP reliability concerns, operator vs. collector divide.

Summary

Pinball Party Podcast hosts Jason, Cale Hernandez (Electric Bat Arcade), and Zach from South Dakota conduct a 2024 pinball year-in-review discussion. They assess 2024 as a mixed year for game releases, highlight Metallica (LE) as the standout success, critique Jersey Jack's pricing and reliability issues, and discuss game quality across Stern, Spooky, American Pinball, and Elwin. Location operator perspectives diverge from home collector priorities, with strong performers including Jaws, Ninja Eclipse, and concerns about Haggis Pinball manufacturing troubles.

Key Claims

Metallica (LE) was the first Limited Edition in how long to be flipped for profit by early buyers
medium confidence · Jason discussing Metallica's market reception and LE availability
Stern and Spooky are the only manufacturers who consistently generate revenue for location operators over the 6-year history of Electric Bat Arcade
high confidence · Cale Hernandez, Electric Bat Arcade operator, comparing manufacturer track records
Jersey Jack games don't have longevity for making money at locations
high confidence · Cale Hernandez drawing on 6 years of operator experience at Electric Bat
Avatar has connector/power issues, specifically weak Molex connectors failing under shaker motor stress
high confidence · Discussion of Avatar hardware reliability problems at Electric Bat
Ninja Eclipse is surprisingly good for the price and outperformed expectations
high confidence · Jason calling it 'the amazing surprise hit of the show' and praising Chris Turner responsiveness to feedback
Haggis Pinball had structural issues before they announced financial restructuring, with Fathom units riddled with problems
medium confidence · Jason noting early warning signs at local arcade before official announcement
Manufacturing pinball machines in Australia presents extraordinary supply chain challenges
medium confidence · Jason's speculation about Haggis Pinball manufacturing location and parts sourcing
X-Men has simple rules, weak voice acting, and poor shooting feel despite having decent code potential
high confidence · Zach's gameplay assessment and comparison to Bond's early code issues
Secondary market pinball prices keep going down while location coin drop performance remains strong
high confidence · Jason observing secondary market decline vs. location profitability divergence

Notable Quotes

“it's a weird kind of semi forgettable year, I forgot that jaws... but I was playing X-Men and I really want to love that. But there's something about it. The rules are really simple. I don't love the voice acting. It's not quite right.”
Zach @ ~17:00 — Summarizes 2024 game quality assessment and explains why X-Men doesn't resonate despite potential
“We were so blessed with Metallica because it was a game that was fully baked. They just had to add a little icing on top.”
Cale Hernandez @ ~24:00 — Explains why Metallica LE succeeded—it shipped as a complete, mature game unlike early releases of other 2024 titles
“Now we've been open for six years so we know which manufacturers we can trust to put out games that are going to make us money and the winners are always Stern and Spooky.”
Cale Hernandez @ ~32:00 — Operator validation of manufacturer reliability based on location revenue performance; dismisses JJP profitability
“at the price they're charging... Jersey Jack, you guys have all the money in the world. Why can't you solve all these problems?”
Jason @ ~38:00 — Criticizes JJP for not using resources to fix known manufacturing/design issues despite high pricing
“Ninja Eclipse is so much better than it has any right to be. I mean it is really kind of just shocking how good it is and for the price they were selling it for.”
Jason @ ~58:00 — Highlights Ninja Eclipse as unexpected winner; praises Chris Turner's iterative design feedback process
“We get number 10 of every run. We always have to bulletproof it straight out of the box so it can withstand the plays at the electric bat.”
Cale Hernandez @ ~33:00 — Reveals that even trusted manufacturers like Spooky ship early units with reliability issues requiring operator remediation
“My red flags like all went up when just when they started and I was like man manufacturing in Australia seems like just a Herculean challenge right like just just crazy because the parts aren't made there.”

Entities

Cale HernandezpersonJasonperson Zachperson Rachelperson Electric Bat ArcadecompanySterncompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

~
sentiment_shift: Hosts characterize 2024 as a 'weird kind of semi forgettable year' for pinball releases, with most games falling short of expectations except Metallica LE and surprise hit Ninja Eclipse. X-Men, Avatar, and Godzilla received mixed-to-negative assessments despite technical potential.
high · Zach: 'it's a weird kind of semi forgettable year... most of the games this year [don't hit]'; Jason's assessment of X-Men as mechanically unsatisfying despite code potential
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market_signal: Secondary market pinball prices continue declining throughout 2024, diverging from strong location coin-drop performance. Suggests oversupply, decreased home collector demand, or market saturation.
high · Jason: 'secondary market. If locations are doing great, that's awesome... the secondary market... it keeps going down'
?
industry_signal: Clear operator-validated hierarchy emerges: Stern and Spooky proven reliable for location profitability; Jersey Jack fails despite capital; American Pinball improving; Elwin draws players but sustainability uncertain. 6-year Electric Bat data confirms pattern.
high · Kale: 'we know which manufacturers we can trust to put out games that are going to make us money and the winners are always Stern and Spooky'; 'Jersey Jack... they just don't have any longevity'
?
product_concern: Jersey Jack Avatar exhibits systematic hardware failures (weak Molex connectors failing under shaker motor stress) and LED board failures. Despite $15k+ pricing and company capitalization, design/manufacturing issues remain unresolved. Operator frustration high.
high · Jason/Kale: Avatar needs 'good solid Molex connector'; 'these games have shaker motors, people are throwing the machines around'; 'there are these issues that that could be resolved'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.269

0:00

Welcome back to the pinball party podcast. We had so many audio problems and let's just get right into this. Welcome, Kale and Zach. I should be specific. There's too many Zachs I know in my life. And every time I talk to my wife, she's like, which Zach? I'll say I say pinball but Zach's like which pinball Zach so this pinball this pinball Zach is Zach from South Dakota as she knows but also a deep dive Zach has been on the show many times welcome Zach thanks for having me uh-huh and mr. kale Hernandez it's the most wonderful time of the year Jason I'm glad you cranked this show back up for me we had been talking for a little while I mean all three of us in random ways I like when you were talking to me about your last podcast and I listened to it because we no planning at all just coincidentally both quit caffeine at exactly the same time so I've been doing that for three or four months now just cold turkey and like I it's bizarre I think I was telling you this I can't say my life is different in any way whatsoever I hate I hate everything about what you just said so except for the part that you quit caffeine it sounds like you probably didn't need to Dr Whether Chris Brown equipment David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. I'm an audiologist because I saw one five months ago to get a hearing test to make sure because of between like music and nonstop whatever. My hearing is top notch still, but I have tinnitus a little bit or some people say tinnitus. I think that's and I hate that word. I don't like that. Say it like an adult. Say tinnitus. Kale, how about you? I mean, I know you got cauliflower ear, but what about tinnitus? I have cauliflower ear. I have horrible tinnitus. I've had it for many, many years, you know, just from playing live music. Yeah. And I wear hearing aids. Hell yeah. Yeah. And I'm on caffeine and edibles. Okay. Now, from this episode, all about 2024 caffeine. I remember we this looking back at it, this comes up all the time. What you guys were talking about. What was it that those little shits that you would drink, you and Rachel? It's like some dude's name. I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, totally. Now we're they're they're they're a little energy shots like green tea energy shots. Now you're in the big one. Oh man. Tiny. Now we found some better ones. They're called soul teas. And it's a little tiny energy shots. And it's like 90 milligrams of caffeine. So I guess like a cup of coffee. We've been messing around with that. But in honor of you, we are doing dry January. No caffeine. Oh, we don't of Osprey up即 educative fictitious perk Sean Pneumonic willstartelectwork You can just toss me in the most like anxious situation, I'm fucking fine. It's great, they'll put me in the middle of whatever, but aside from that, Oh my God, just aggravatingly boring, fucking dumb. Anyway, so that's how it's affected me. And it really lines up with how long has it been since I played Pinball? Well, about four months. How long has it been since I quit Caffeine? About four months. Yeah, I listened, let's talk about 2024 and Pinball. So for me, again, no agenda. I took a long break and some of it was to further test out my not tinnitus but tendonitis of my left hand. It was hard to tell if it was from playing guitar, from typing, from pinball, from lifting weights. It was probably a little bit of all of it. So I've been trying the last couple weeks to get to play a little more to find out like can I still do this not mentally but like physically and I played a bunch of jaws yesterday and my arm fucking hurts like shit. So what did I do? I bought a Metallica premium like 20 minutes ago. So yeah, yeah, thank you. Appreciate that stupid as hell. My body's like don't do that. My head's like, Oh, yeah, I should do it. So I bought a Metallica. I bought it from flippingbirdpinball. Actually, it's flipping. How do you pronounce it? Flip flat, flappy birds, flappy birds, pinball outlet in Indiana. No, from flipping out pinball. Zack and Nicole, everyone out there. I got it here, let me just do it. When I buy my pinball shit I buy from Flippin' Out. From Topper, Sharp, Blaze, Rameons, I've got it figured out. Flippin' Out, figured out. When I make a pinball I make Flippin' Out. Flippin' Out, figured out. When I buy buy buy I buy from Flippin' Out. Bye bye bye. And I, you know, no one, we're not recording this video, we can see video, but I used that guitar that I'm pointing to, that green one, for that song. I'm a fan of your song and has a little sticker there. I still haven't taken it off. Oh yeah, I see it. Arcade. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, for those who don't know, uh, maybe you don't. I glossed over this quickly, but although Zach is a friend of mine and a pinball friend of mine, we met from trade and pinball machines and he does the deep dives with me. Kale is from the world renowned electric bat arcade in Tempe, Arizona. Him and his wife, Rachel, who own it and pwn it, P-W-N to really use that, started that. And it's, in my opinion, the most successful pinball You guys have your own cast, Electric Batcast, correct? You guys did one a few days ago. We sure do and thank you for the plug. Oh dude, I'll plug you anytime. You know what I mean? Yep. Yeah, we do that every once in a while. Search Electric Batcast on Spotify or your favorite podcasting application. We're also on YouTube. Go follow us there. And we just started streaming. We've been testing. You've been streaming for a while. Well, but not with a wireless rig and that is a completely different animal. And we've had a lot of help from Tom. Tom's given us some advice. Tom G? Yep. Tom Graff. And, you know, man, it's a different monster when you're dealing with, you know, wireless, you know, HDMI transmitters and receivers. Today, a new show, the online giveaway is If the neighbors are all here it will go off, irrespective of which is what happens, plus the years of the show for the 200 who are watching it live Cz поех only the coaches please don't So I'm going to talk about what pinball scene is like and what the state championship is like at Electric Bat. Anytime you've heard Neon Dale music on here, not like the pinball stuff like Flippin' Out or Triple Drain stuff or any of the pinball related music, but anytime you've heard like proper Neon Dale from the album Cosmic, for those who aren't aware, I'm in a musical group called Neon Dale. If you ever heard that, it was recorded by a studio called Black & Bloom out of Denver, Colorado. I say that because the sound engineer I worked with, his name is Kyle, is a guitar player for the band called Counterpunch. So stay with me. There's this band called Counterpunch out of technically Chicago and they're going to be playing at Electric Bat in March. And I saw this poster randomly and I messaged Kyle. I'm like, bro, you're playing at my buddy's arcade in Tempe, Arizona. He's like, fuck yeah, I am. And do you remember the date off the top? It's March something. I can Google it. Put it in the show notes. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, any... Everyone should go there. Go... If you like punk rock music and specifically if you have to get into like the flavor thing, very skate punk. Every passing moment We give in to the greed Taking everything we want But nothing that we need Was ever created Counterpunch is a fantastic punk band out of Chicago area and their guitar player I am smitten with. He actually did the bass recording on a lot of the Neon Dale songs. In fact, all of them. Because of my tendinitis, he laid down a lot of those tracks. And he helped with a lot of the harmonies. Not singing them, but helping create a couple things. Anyways, go support the band Counterpunch and they're going to be at the Electric Bat Arcade in March. And yeah. Looking forward to it. God damn, it's going to be fun. It's such a great band to have there. Yeah. Yeah, man, I should drive down there. Thank you. Yes, dude, we're down here. Come on. God damn it. That's such a crazy coincidence. I know. Yeah, we got a new booking agent. So we have a lot of good stuff like Master Killer from Wu-Tang Clan is coming. We have a lot of big acts coming this year, so this is going to be a blast. I do want to mention one thing before we get too far. You met Flippin' Out. You had the little Flippin' Out song that you do. When I bought a family. You mentioned toppers. Toppers are at PitchPremium. We, I'm not usually a topper person, but we got the Metallica topper with the expression speaker light kit. Holy crap, call Zach and get one of those. I'm telling you it is a game changer. The way they work together, the lights work together in both of them. We haven't installed the expression lighting yet, you know, in the cabinets. I'm a fan of the speaker lights, get the topper, you will not regret it. Okay, I did it. Yes, agreed. Get the expression lights no matter what. I'm going to buy it. I'm trying to buy those right now. They're out of stock at everywhere. But March 11th, sorry, March 12th, by the way, for Counterpunch at the Electric Bat. So if you're never going to go to Electric Bat, eat shit, that's stupid. But if you do, you should go March 12th and Find one of the guitarists and tap him in the sack. You know, the back of your hand. I'm whipping you. You guys get him. Tap his sack. I do the front of the hand. Okay. And a nice tug. Oh, you're trying to jack a guy off. Yeah. Okay. I try. Yeah, I'm trying to just like... That's my new thing. When I hang out, I message people, what we jacking, bro?

Jaws has air ball issues on location but plays smooth as butter in home Premium versions

high confidence · Kale and Zach comparing location vs. home experience; Kale running Pro at Electric Bat with no issues

Jason @ ~66:00 — Speculates on structural challenges facing Haggis Pinball due to Australian manufacturing location

“I'm one of those weird people that likes Guardians more than Metallica.”

Zach @ ~44:00 — Contrarian take highlighting subjective preference divergence even on widely praised titles

“Even in the beginning, the code was terrible... But X-Men, even with code doesn't change the way it like shoots and feels.”

Cale Hernandez @ ~28:00 — Distinguishes between games where code maturity can salvage poor fundamentals (Bond) vs. those with inherent design flaws (X-Men)

“I don't play Jaws on location, I guess would be the qualifier. I play my premium at my house and it's smooth as butter and great game.”

Zach @ ~49:00 — Illustrates home vs. location experience divergence; Premium vs. Pro mechanical/play differences

[name withheld pending review]company

Counterpunchorganization

Pinball Party Podcastorganization

Electric Bat Castorganization

Neon Daleorganization

code_update: Jaws received multiple post-launch code updates including new 8-bit mode, demonstrating Stern's ongoing support. Early launch didn't prevent positive long-term reception.

high · Jason: 'They kept coming out with new code. They added that additional eight bit mode.'

manufacturing_signal: Haggis Pinball experienced catastrophic reliability issues with Fathom (2024) prior to announced financial restructuring. Australian manufacturing location creates extraordinary supply chain disadvantages—parts sourced internationally, no local ecosystem.

high · Jason: multiple friends received defective Fathom units; 'manufacturing in Australia seems like just a Herculean challenge... the parts aren't made there'; timing preceded financial restructuring announcement

design_innovation: Ninja Eclipse by Chris Turner exceeded expectations for quality and value despite being a lesser-known designer/manufacturer. Strong community reception at Expo and positive operator interest. Success attributed to designer's openness to feedback and iterative refinement.

high · Jason: 'amazing surprise hit of the show... so much better than it has any right to be... shocking how good it is'; Kale: operators purchased units despite slow production

gameplay_signal: X-Men exhibits design flaw where shooting mechanics and feel don't engage players despite rule code development potential. Voice acting weak. Unlike Bond (early code issues but strong fundamentals), X-Men's problems are structural rather than addressable by code maturity.

high · Kale: 'Even with code doesn't change the way it like shoots and feels... X-Men even the beginning, even with X-Men... doesn't change the feel'; Jason concurs

product_strategy: Metallica LE succeeded because it shipped as a fully mature game (not requiring post-launch code development) with improved mechanics, lighting, audio, and magnets. First LE in extended period to be flipped for profit by early buyers, signaling market confidence.

high · Kale: 'Metallica was fully baked. They just had to add a little icing on top'; Jason notes LE flipped for profit, 'first le in how long'

operational_signal: Operators (Electric Bat) prioritize theme appeal, reliability, and revenue longevity; accept imperfect mechanics. Home collectors prioritize shooting feel, rule depth, and gameplay experience; willing to wait for code maturity. This creates tension in game assessment.

high · Jason: 'you have an arcade where games come in they make money'; Kale: 'it doesn't matter how bad the game is... over time it'll make money'; Jason: 'I have to really like [a game before investing]'

competitor_intelligence: Jersey Jack prices significantly higher ($15k) than competitors, driving operators away. Even 12+ years post-Wizard of Oz, company hasn't solved reliability issues or found sustainable location/collector adoption. Observers question whether capital/experience justify premium pricing.

high · Jason on Avatar: 'just kill me. And charge you 15 grand for it'; 'Jersey Jack, you guys have all the money in the world. Why can't you solve all these problems?'; Kale: 'at the price, running it on location to ever turn a profit'

venue_signal: Electric Bat Arcade (6 years, Tempe, AZ) validated as industry-leading venue by expanding live music bookings (Counterpunch March 2025; Master Killer from Wu-Tang Clan upcoming), wireless streaming infrastructure, and new booking agent. Indicates venue viability beyond pinball revenue.

high · Kale: 'We have a new booking agent. We have a lot of good stuff like Master Killer from Wu-Tang Clan is coming'; Jason: 'most successful pinball [venue]'; hosting March 12 punk show