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We Are Pinball #39 "C'mon Predator what are you DOING?!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Jul 4, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

Jaws 50th Anniversary launch and Harry Potter CE deep dive with AI art controversy discussion.

Summary

Don and Retro Jingo discuss the newly announced Jaws 50th Anniversary edition from Stern, comparing it to existing Jaws variants and evaluating its value proposition. They also discuss Don's hands-on experience with the Harry Potter Collector's Edition from Jersey Jack Pinball, including detailed breakdowns of layout, audio, and artwork, plus addressing community concerns about AI-generated elements in the playfield. The hosts also cover upcoming games, Mad Pinball sponsorship details, and tease exclusive Patreon content about a visit to Spooky Pinball.

Key Claims

  • Jaws 50th Anniversary edition costs the same as Premium but includes powder-coated armor, glitter in playfield, and different inserts compared to standard Premium

    high confidence · Don directly states specifications: 'three things this comes with that the premium doesn't, and it's the same exact price. So for the same price as a new in-box premium, you're going to get yourself armor that's already powder-coated. Cool. You may not like the color, whatever. There's some glitter in the play field.'

  • Spooky Pinball has been successfully powder-coating wire forms/ramps on recent games without chips or cracking issues

    high confidence · Don states: 'industry leader innovator Spooky Pinball has been powder-coating rails for their last couple of games, and they're holding up, man. I'm not getting chips on ramps like I thought I was going to.'

  • Jaws 50th is limited to end of 2024 (possibly due to license expiration or deliberate FOMO strategy)

    medium confidence · Hosts discuss: 'Limited to the end of this year' and debate whether it's 'trying to make a bit of FOMO by saying this 50th anniversary edition for the rest of this year.'

  • Harry Potter CE playfield has AI-generated artifacts including an eight-eyed dragon above the right flipper (approximately quarter-sized) and missing character fingers

    high confidence · Don confirms from hands-on experience: 'The dragon's the most egregious thing. It's above the right upper flipper. It's about the size of a U.S. quarter' and 'when you look at the zoomed-up pictures... you can find all these little artifacts.'

  • Harry Potter CE uses hand-drawn artwork from book-based artists rather than movie art

    high confidence · Don: 'I'm glad I got the hand-drawn artwork from the Harry Potter artists' and notes matte texture that's 'not a decal like I was kind of worried about.'

  • Harry Potter CE artwork has matte, textured finish that is thicker than expected decals

    high confidence · Don states: 'It's got this kind of matte, roughish kind of finish. It's thick. It's not a decal like I was kind of worried about.'

  • Gold-plating wire forms costs hundreds to over $1,000 versus $15-50 for powder coating

Notable Quotes

  • “I think AI is cool. I think AI in pinball is cool. I think in the future we will have amazing AI playfield designs. The designers can get inspired by it, get amazing graphics... making it cheaper for the manufacturers to produce, to build, and it will be cheaper for the end users.”

    Don (Retro Jingo) @ Mid-episode discussion of Harry Potter AI artwork — Represents pro-AI stance in pinball community, contrasts with community backlash, suggests optimistic view of future cost reductions

  • “If it was between the flippers, right in front of you, like Guardians of the Galaxy, that big head down there, right? If that was the dragon head and it was all messed up, then I get it. But if it's this small at the upper right flipper area, I don't care.”

    Don (Retro Jingo) @ Harry Potter AI artifacts discussion — Contextualizes that AI issues are minor in actual gameplay experience despite zoomed photo visibility

  • “I think it's cool they're trying that because we just need FOMO, man. We need FOMO in this industry.”

    Retro Jingo @ Jaws 50th Anniversary discussion — Reflects broader community sentiment about artificial scarcity as necessary market driver

  • “Do you like the Rust Bronze like looking ramps? Sure why not... I just personally I don't like the the brown stuff i mean i would much i much would have preferred you know the collector's edition of harry potter gold ramps that's my cup of tea”

    Don @ Jaws 50th ramp color discussion — Shows preference for premium finishes but acknowledges aesthetic trade-offs in non-LE tiers

  • “I like this more than Jurassic Park. I think it's my favorite of the Elwins for sure.”

    Retro Jingo @ Jaws assessment vs. Jurassic Park — Rates Jaws as designer's best work, positioning it as high-quality entry in Keith Elwin's portfolio

  • “I wish the game played better. Honestly, I'd have one if you could actually hit those ramps and rip the spinners, but I just haven't had a successful game on barbecue ever.”

    Don @ Barry's Barbecue Challenge discussion — Notes playability issues with themed American Pinball release despite liking aesthetic weirdness

Entities

Jaws 50th AnniversarygameHarry Potter Collector's EditiongameDonpersonRetro JingopersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Harry Potter CE playfield contains AI-generated artifacts (dragon with eight eyes, missing character fingers) sparking community backlash and quality control concerns

    high · Don confirms hands-on observation of AI artifacts, notes community outrage, discusses whether misprint vs. intentional use of earlier file version

  • ?

    community_signal: We Are Pinball podcast securing exclusive insider information from Mad Pinball distributor including game inquiries, used inventory, and pricing—indicates strong sponsor relationship

    high · Don reads from Mad Pinball source: 'Inquiries on the Predator have actually been steady. We have sold more than expected' plus exclusive Bond Pro deal

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Retro Jingo advocates for AI as beneficial future tool for designer inspiration and cost reduction with potential to lower end-user prices; controversial position in community

    high · 'I think AI is cool. I think AI in pinball is cool... making it cheaper for the manufacturers to produce... it will be cheaper for the end users'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Spooky Pinball successfully implementing powder-coated wire forms/ramps without cracking or chipping issues on recent games, setting new quality standard

    high · Don confirms durability testing on location machines: 'We have wounded booms on location, and it gets beat up like crazy, and those powder-coated ramps, they hold up'

  • $

    market_signal: Jaws recently experiencing renewed sales momentum weeks before 50th Anniversary release, suggesting strong secondary market demand and nostalgia-driven interest

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.246

0:00
we are back once again with the we are pinball show what up it's don how you doing look into my eyes you see my eyes i'm doing great i am how about you buddy retro jingo from retro jingo on youtube don's pinball podcast is where i hail from this is wop episode number 39 we are pinball we are amazing we are strange we love playing games we pay way too much for them and spend way too much time with them and we're here to talk about them how you doing let's go let's go buddy let's go we have so much news new games new game releases so much pinball happiness we have to talk about and share with all our listeners this is just beautiful right so yesterday we got hit by jaws 50th from stern right donnie we knew it was coming and even back when jaws was released There was a lot of talk that there's going to be a super limited edition of this game, right? Another SLE we were prepared for. And then the market was doing what the market does, and we got Pro Premium LE, and then they came out. But, you know, we knew the anniversary was coming up. And I love this. Other themes have had anniversaries come up before, but not with a game that was as fire as Jaws was. So if anything deserves, like, just, like, a late in the distribution cycle bump of a new trim level, yeah, I'm good with this. I'm good with Jaws getting a new one. I'm going to ask you. Yeah. Do we need another Jaws edition this early? Why not? You know, I was in on Jaws at the launch. I had one. It was great. I made it over. Best looking machine, arguably, I think I've done. It's on out of the house. But now we finally got to code 1.0. And I'm thinking, like, maybe I wouldn't mind getting it again now that the code's complete. Because there's so much more that came out in that game. All the video modes and stuff didn't come out until I was already gone with the game. So for people like me that are looking at picking up a Jaws again, this is not a bad addition to have. And people are still buying Jaws, man. I was listening to the pinball show, and Zach said that, hey, man, for whatever reason, the last couple weeks, Jaws has been selling again, man. So, hey.
2:13
That's nice. It's a killer game, man. That's nice. The fun part is people are comparing this to the LE. Some people are comparing this to the LE, and it's just over $3,000 more for the LE, so you cannot compare it with the LE. You have to compare it with the normal premium version. And some people are like, this 50th edition, it needs some more, it needs some more, it needs some more. Why does it need to have that much more? It costs the same as the premium, right? It's the same price. I'm seeing three things this comes with that the premium doesn't, and it's the same exact price. So for the same price as a new in-box premium, you're going to get yourself armor that's already powder-coated. Cool. You may not like the color, whatever. There's some glitter in the play field. This is the first time I think Stern has done something like this, starting to experiment with glitter. Do you like the glitter? You know what? I do like the glitter. I got the top-end Harry Potter here, and when I look down at the characters, I see my glitter. I know that's exclusive only to my version, and it gives me a certain little bubble. It works, man. JJP used the glitter for many years now on their highest edition, and it works, man. I love it. The different inserts lit up. The glitter lights up different. Oh, it's beautiful. I like that. A fun other little trend I like is powder coating wire forms now because I always thought, well, the wire form, if you powder coat it, it's going to crack and everything. But industry leader innovator Spooky Pinball has been powder-coating rails for their last couple of games, and they're holding up, man. I'm not getting chips on ramps like I thought I was going to. And so the fact that now – We have wounded booms on location, and it gets beat up like crazy, and those powder-coated ramps, they hold up. So thank you, Spooky. That's wild. That electrostatic powder, man. I don't know what kind of enamel goes on there. It works. Yeah, so we get some brass or bronze-colored wire forms. That's cool. Yeah, fun little extra thing. The sticker is stupid, and the fact they pointed that out was kind of weird. I don't think they needed to do that, but it doesn't detract from it. You know, it's a Jaws machine that's a premium price, has a couple of extra upgrades in it. It looks like a high-top shoe from the 1980s, so like that or don't, but I think it's kind of cool, man. Do you like the Rust Bronze like looking ramps Sure why not I mean It looks like it's just the wire forms I don't think they did the actual metal ramps In that bronze color On the wire form sorry I would have gave them some kudos For that if they would have done that Yeah everything But I just personally I don't like the brown stuff i mean i would much i much would have preferred you know the collector's edition of harry potter gold ramps that's my cup of tea yeah i like that this brown bronze thing i don't like it but it fits the theme yeah i get it and now this isn't plating this now with harry potter i think they did plating or anodized or something like there's actually like gold metallic metal that's on that ramp that's an expensive process okay it costs me to take apart to get powder coat at about $15 or so to pay the powder coat or to spray it down and bake it. You know, so if there's, what, one, two, two, three wire forms on Jaws, they get the bronze powder coat on them. You know, that would cost me probably under $50 to get done. But if you wanted to get that plated in like a brass, that would be hundreds and hundreds of dollars at least to get that done. Chroming can be $1,000 because I looked at how much it would cost to get an arcade version of Harry Potter and take those wire forms and gold them. And then I was like, I'm just going to buy the CE because forget it, man. It was expensive. You did the math. It was expensive. You did the math. To get actually gold chrome plated, you could take them and get them powder coated and they'll look fine, but they won't look as fire as the CE ones do. All right. Yeah. We're going to go into that in a minute, in a minute. So, all in all, same price as a premium version. Limited to the end of this year. I think that their license will stop at the end of this year, don't you think? Yeah, or maybe they had to extend it. I don't know. Maybe they're closing out on the end of that license. No, I don't think so because they're going to be making JAWS machines for the next five years, man. They're not going to stop making JAWS. They're trying to make a bit of FOMO by saying this 50th anniversary edition for the rest of this year. Yeah. So I think it's cool they're trying that because we just need FOMO, man. We need FOMO in this industry. Now, I'm sitting here with Adajaz, and if I was going to buy another one again, you know, yeah, it would probably be cool to have the 50th. Does this mean that you'll be able to pick up a used premium like a little bit cheaper? Maybe. and you know the powder coating being as ubiquitous it is this you can redo that but you can't redo the sparkle in the play field we were having a discussion about this earlier and if you want that sparkle you're gonna have to get this version yeah and i like the sparkle i do i do i do i want to see so we also got the new artwork now before we go into the artwork i don't care about artwork the only time i look at artwork is because of the comments i'm getting when i do the unboxing videos people are saying you have to talk more about the artwork because i'm like this is how it looks now it stands between two pinball machines and i will never see that work again so i just checked out the artwork it looks like we have got the poster of jaws on the sides right it looks like the poster from 75 uh that's okay for me but the back box sides they're just blue and shark fin and white it looks pretty simple not that i want to i don't want to bash i don't want to do anything about it but it just feels simple if you look at the artwork on the premium version the big jaws coming out there and tank and stuff there's just so much going on there compared to this what you want to call the iconic artwork so they also took the pro back glass and put it in the premium now so if you compare those two how do you feel about the new artwork i mean i think it's fine i still think probably the pro had the best art the pro and the le uh because they have that sheen on it just that really kind of simple iconic back glass i had the premium which was kind of a busy scene i went and got an aftermarket one that had a shark coming through and like the jaws logo looked pretty boss but it's fine i i don't hate it i'm not clamoring for like i wish every version had this you know if i had a premium still i wouldn't go and you know buy this artwork and throw it on there so oh no no it's okay should a should a premium owner upgrade to this what's your recommendation well probably like a hundred percent no i don't think there's any reason to do that yeah so i i mean i don't think the draw is worth like i'm gonna dump this premium and get this new one um you know if you're like me and you had the game early on and then sold it off and wouldn't mind getting it back now that the code's complete, it'd be a good version to get. I think a lot of people are in that position.

high confidence · Don provides cost breakdown: 'It costs me to take apart to get powder coat at about $15 or so... probably under $50 to get done. But if you wanted to get that plated in like a brass, that would be hundreds and hundreds of dollars at least to get that done. Chroming can be $1,000.'

  • Jaws 50th back glass uses Pro version artwork instead of Premium version artwork

    high confidence · Hosts discuss: 'they also took the pro back glass and put it in the premium now' and compare it to the busy Premium version art.

  • “I really want to check out this John Wick code, man. I had that game, and I was like, great, I'm going to grow with this game... And then it was just like, nope... I'm not just going to sit here and wait nine months for maybe this gets better.”

    Don @ Code update delay discussion — Documents impact of long code update gaps on player retention and collector satisfaction

  • “I'm on the lookout for a James Bond now... I love George Gomez games. I love the theme... The music is cool.”

    Don @ Game collecting discussion — Shows collector motivation beyond standard gameplay, highlights designer reputation impact

  • “If I was going to buy another one again, you know, yeah, it would probably be cool to have the 50th... if you want that sparkle you're gonna have to get this version”

    Don @ Jaws 50th glitter discussion — Identifies glitter as non-reproducible differentiator making 50th edition unique vs. used market

  • “When I had a friend over here and we're playing the game, it's his first time seeing it. and I'm trying to point out these things, I almost felt kind of stupid because of how tiny they are, how close we had to look.”

    Don @ Harry Potter AI artifacts visibility — Emphasizes discrepancy between zoomed photo visibility and actual gameplay experience regarding AI artifacts

    • Mad Pinball
    company
    Keith Elwinperson
    George Gomezperson
    John Wickgame
    James Bondgame
    Barry's Barbecue Challengegame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Guardians of the Galaxygame
    Ultramangame
    ABBAgame
    Cab Customcompany
    Lymanperson
    Pinball Showorganization
    Dennis Creaselperson
    Joe Katzperson
    Cab Custom Art Bladesproduct
    Pinball Arcadeplatform

    high · Retro Jingo references Zach from Pinball Show noting 'for whatever reason, the last couple weeks, Jaws has been selling again, man'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Retro Jingo visited Spooky Pinball and discussed upcoming unrevealed game; confirms tight relationship with boutique manufacturer and teasing exclusive Patreon content

    medium · 'I talk with the Spooky team, and I'm going to share something about the new game, their upcoming game... something really cool on Patreon'

  • $

    market_signal: Jaws 50th Anniversary priced identically to Premium tier ($9,000 range estimated) rather than Premium-LE gap, positioning as value alternative to used LE market at $13,000+

    high · Hosts note 'same price as a premium version' with three exclusive features, creating premium upgrade path without LE price jump

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball officially announces Jaws 50th Anniversary edition with powder-coated armor, playfield glitter, different inserts, and Pro backglass artwork at Premium price point

    high · Direct discussion of official announcement with specific specifications and limited availability through end of 2024

  • ?

    product_concern: Harry Potter CE playfield AI artifacts (quarter-sized dragon above right flipper, missing character fingers) visible in high-resolution photos but negligible during actual gameplay

    high · Don's hands-on assessment: 'I almost felt kind of stupid because of how tiny they are, how close we had to look' when trying to show friend the issues

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Don's Harry Potter CE artwork perception improved after hands-on experience with matte textured finish and confirmation of hand-drawn (not AI) artwork, from skeptical to cautiously positive

    medium · Earlier criticism reversed: 'I do like getting to see it in person. It's got a cool texture to it. I like that' and relieved about hand-drawn vs. AI 'So it's bumped up a little bit to me'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern limiting Jaws 50th Anniversary availability to end of 2024 to create FOMO and artificial scarcity despite broader product availability

    medium · Hosts debate whether license expiration or deliberate FOMO strategy: 'I think it's cool they're trying that because we just need FOMO, man. We need FOMO in this industry'

  • ?

    technology_signal: AI art generation in pinball manufacturing showing quality control and implementation issues despite artistic merit, raising community concerns about cost-cutting and artist replacement

    high · Extended discussion of AI artifact visibility, cost savings analysis ($27/game), and philosophical debate about AI role in future pinball design

    • 9:38
    If you hadn't got one before, this would probably be the one to get, all things considered. Now, if you find a cheaper premium used, obviously that would be much better. And then go and order some armor from Cab Custom because they're doing 50th armor. They actually have a 50th logo cut in it. And go get that powder coat. It's probably what I would do. I saw, I saw. It has got this red armor. For me, if they just took ocean blue, it would fit much, much better, if you ask me. You know, Jaws blue, that iconic Jaws blue. But I've seen somewhere, I don't know if it was you or where it was, but we had this, you know, white armor with blood splashed on it. Yeah, I've seen that. Okay, it wasn't, okay. Yeah, I didn't do that. That looks awesome, right? Right. So if this version was white armor with some blood splatter done professionally and had red glitter in spots on the play field, that would have been amazing. Would it cost Stern that much more? I mean, probably not. They could put $250 on top of the price and give a bit more extra, a bit more effort, and people will go crazy about this. But they cannot do that, Donnie, because if they do that, there are some people that will be pissed and say, I have paid $13,000 for the LE. It cannot look better than the LE. So it's a huge dilemma, right? So if they took this game and they would have had a mirrored back glass, Invisiglass, and a shaker motor and some art blades, this could have been an LE release for $13,000. And people would have been absolutely horribly pissed off. but if I should choose, do I want to buy on the used market? Do I want to buy a beat up? You cannot beat up a game that's about one year old, but you know, a Jaws Ellie that has got 2000 games played, played on it and the Ellie whole surprise, they still cost about 13,000 use. So that's really, really cool. Would I buy that or would I have just 9,000 brand new buy from Matt pinball and get it shipped for free by using the code WAP. Why not? I would 100% go with this 50th anniversary version. Oh, absolutely. Especially when you could customize it with your own art blades instead of going with just this, because there's a lot of good options for Jaws. A game like this that's as popular as this is and has sold as well is going to have a lot of people making a bunch of cool stuff for it, so there'll be a lot of things to pick from. I got some Cab Custom Art Blades for it, the Plexi ones that they do. They're awesome, man. You can put your blood splatter in there, customize that. So you can get the shooter rod anywhere. Tons of people are making them. Stern sold an aftermarket one. You can get the rails redone. You can do them any color you want. You can customize these games pretty well. But I think that would be a good purchase point to get into. I don't think I would rush into an LE. I think if I was buying a brand new one, I would definitely go premium. I'd probably pick this one up. Yeah, yeah. Why not, man? And Jaws is very popular. The code before this release, the code was loved by almost everyone in this industry, in this hobby. And now 1.0, completing the code, this game is just going to be more awesome than it already was. Look, you look at something like Kong, and Kong shoots well. It's designed by the same guy. The code is going to be pretty impressive once it gets done. But, like, it doesn't have just the baked-in nostalgia of Jaws. and those movie scenes and those movie call-outs that were in there. And just all those little tidbits in there. Like if you like Jaws even passingly, like this game is fantastic. I like this more than Jurassic Park. I think it's my favorite of the Elwins for sure. Okay, nice. Nice. It's okay. Yeah. So you think it's an okay welcome? Yeah. Oh. Anything wrong? No, we're good, man. We're good. Oh, okay. You were pointing. Was it Monica? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all right, all right, all right. Good. So that's Jaws 50th. We are happy. New Pinball Day is a great day, right? We love it. 100%. Yeah, this is great. Yeah, I love more of this. I like this a lot better than the Jaws 30th, I think. Yeah, do these.
    14:04
    Jaws 30th? I mean Jurassic Park 30th, sorry. Remember 20 years ago when Stern came out with a 30th anniversary edition and the sticker was this big? Yeah, I do remember that. And it only cost $4,000? Yeah, we were like, oh, it's going to be $5,000 by Christmas. What the hell, man?
    14:23
    Oh, yeah. All right, Donnie. Let's jump over to the next game because we are so spoiled in this cup. You were just so spoiled. We got a brand new Harry Potter from JJP. You just got your collector's edition. You lucky son of a son. You're so lucky. You unboxed it. You were dressed like, what's her name? Hermione, right? I think it was Hermione, although I don't know if I nailed it. The redness of the wig didn't quite match the character, but that's okay. You nailed it. You look so beautiful there. I got it. I've been getting crazy feedback on this. I was like, I'm never going to be able to top the Avatar unboxing where my entire body was blue. And damn it, I think I might have got close based on the feedback. So check that out on the Don Spinball Podcast YouTube channel. I unboxed Harry Potter. I undergo a transformation. I'm in a skirt. I didn't shave my legs. The game's awesome.
    15:17
    You needed to do that, man. Did you have a bra on and everything there? I should have, I think. Did you get the real effect?
    15:26
    Donnie. Well, yeah. So you got the game. You're so lucky. We have still paid deposits on all the versions, but we still haven't got our game. So I cannot go into details about this game yet, but I'm still looking forward to it. So, Donnie. You have to rate it from 1 to 10. First, shots and layout, 1 to 10. Shots and layout on J.J.P.'s Harry Potter. I'd say it's like a 7.8. It's pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Okay, nice. Audio package. Ooh, yeah. It's got music from the movie. J.J.P. puts good speakers in. Their sounds are always great. There's no muted – well, I mean, there's audio duct clips. But when the clips are playing and nothing else is over the top of it, you're hearing everything. You're hearing the characters. I wanted to hear Snape. He's in the game. Fantastic. You know, this is like 8.99 for sounds. Okay. Okay, nice. I remember a couple of weeks ago we made a show where you shared your strong thoughts about the collector's edition artwork. Yeah. So as we started the show, I don't really care about artwork. For me, the collector's edition is just brown and yellow. and you shared your thoughts and you want the movie art but it was from the books. Now you have got the hands-on experience. If you should rate it now after seeing it, how do you feel about the art on the cabinet? I think it's fine. I do like getting to see it in person. It's got a cool texture to it. I like that. It's got this kind of matte, roughish kind of finish. It's thick. It's not a decal like I was kind of worried about. Oh, rat cows. Yeah. But it's not like the shiny, smooth surface that's got a matte texture to it. And now that we're finding out all about the AI tools that were used and some of the mistakes that happened, I'm glad I got the hand-drawn artwork from the Harry Potter artists. So it's bumped up a little bit to me, as much as pinball cabinet art can, I guess.
    17:31
    So, yeah, we have to talk about this AI stuff. because when it came out, I saw people were upset about it, writing about it, and we also got hit up like, you need to address this, you need to bash JJP, blah, blah, blah. And I didn't make no videos about it, and we didn't make no shows about it, and now we're going to talk about it. I'm going to tell it how I feel. Now, I haven't seen the game. I haven't had the hands-on experience. so it's something with the dragon has eight eyes or something and some of the characters are missing fingers or something first you know where the dragon and one of the kids are how big is the dragon head and the hand and where are they located donnie um so like the dragon the The dragon's the most egregious thing. It's above the right upper flipper. It's about the size of a U.S. quarter, which is probably like a Danish 100-kroner coin. I mean, you know, 1.5 centimeters, I think, is probably the size of this dragon head. And, yeah, when you look at the zoomed-up pictures, you know, you've got a picture of the play field, high resolution, and you're going through it. You can find all these little artifacts, right? But when I had a friend over here and we're playing the game, it's his first time seeing it. and I'm trying to point out these things, I almost felt kind of stupid because of how tiny they are, how close we had to look.
    19:07
    Yeah, there's definitely an issue to talk about here with them, but when you were to rank the whole game, yeah, these aren't like 10 out of 10 because of these issues, but it doesn't really tank the whole game as a whole. I'm still an owner of it and happy to have it. Okay. This means when I unbox this game, I will never, ever see that AI stuff. I will never see it. If it was between the flippers, right in front of you, like Guardians of the Galaxy, that big head down there, right? If that was the dragon head and it was all messed up, then I get it. Then I get it. But if it's this small at the upper right flipper area, I don't care. So what happened? I was at another podcaster's page, and this one got addressed. And me, you know how I am. I just say what I feel. I just wrote there, I think AI is cool.
    20:13
    Oh, man. Pitchforks are out now. Jeez. I said it, Donnie. I think AI. I love retro computers also. So in that scene when we get some AI stuff on all the old games we just geek out It so good So I wrote there I think AI is cool And I think AI in pinball is cool I think in the future we will have amazing AI playfield designs The designers can get inspired by it, get amazing graphics. Oh, God. And this way, making it cheaper for the manufacturers to produce, to build, and it will be cheaper for the end users. That's just how I feel. And one guy bashed me in there. He was like, this is the dumbest thing you have ever said. And I'm like, guy, AI is here. That train is just moving. Okay, we cannot stop it. I think I've heard dumber stuff, but that last little bit, I think you're primrose pathing it too much. The lower cost to the end user will not be realized. I hope so. No. 100%, that would never happen. If it's that cheaper to produce, man, they can get faster design, easier graphics, and if these companies love us just a bit, they can say, okay, we use lesser money and we can charge lesser from our end users. That's what I would do. Genghis, have you met a human before?
    21:48
    There's no way they would look at, oh, we've outsourced this thing. I can just whip up this AI. I'll just do prompts in the back room. I can save that money on an artist. And they would just pocket that. They would not pass that on to everybody else and keep the game that much cheaper. I just feel like they should do it. I just feel like it. My good buddy, I think it was Dennis Creasel, was going through and did an analysis of this, thinking like, you know, with how much money an artist gets paid versus how many games are made, you know, what would that end cost savings be? And it came out to like, you know, $27 or something per game. It wasn't even all that much. Oh, okay. I think what people don't want to see is a company to say, we don't need a freaking artist. Let's just AI this thing. We'll save that money. We'll put it out. Nobody will care, right? People don't want to see this. I don't think that will happen. People don't want to see that happen. I think you can have your AI inspiration, and then an artist will, you know, make it good after. So in this case with Harry Potter and the AI tools that were used, an artist person was paid for it. They utilize the AI tools, but it was a person, an artist that was paid to do it. So like that's different from a company saying, we'll just throw some prompts in there, have the intern do it, and we'll just whip this up. You know, like that's actually replacing a person. This was a person that was hired to turn this in. Now the work he turned in seemed to be problematic or somewhere along the line there's definitely issues that are there. So I don't think this is a case of we should hate the AI because it replaced somebody. It's just how it was implemented is the problem. So there's one guy, there's an artist that did the Playfield artwork, you're saying? Yeah, yes. He built the whole Playfield? Yeah. Well, I think what they do is they get a collage of their ideas that they want, and then some artists will go and kind of trace over and then fill in and do blending. Maybe that's the process that he used. But then there's tools within that digital template that they can use to help sharpen lines and things. Some people are saying now That maybe The play field that we got may have been an earlier version Not a final version that was sent to the printer And I think that's because we've seen some photos Of that dragon where it actually looks good But that's not what's on the play field that we're seeing now So I wonder if that's what happened Whether we'll ever know that, I don't know Okay So have they updated Are some of the older versions With this AI stuff or I don't think we're going to know. If that's the case, that a misprint was sent and they now have to get playfields reprinted, that's going to be months and months later until we would see those in actual games because they have to be printed and then clear-coded, and then that clear-coat needs to set for some specific period of time. They can't just go run out, get a bunch made, and start throwing them in games right now because they're not going to be ready. You will have a very rare version if that happens.
    24:43
    Yeah. I don't – yeah. I mean, I've seen the close-up photos of some of the patterns and the edges of fabrics where, yeah, there's AI artifacts that are definitely in there. Yeah, they should have been cleaned up, and maybe they were if the wrong file was sent to a printer or something. But I'm telling you, when you look at the game, I can't see any of that stuff except for the dragon. I love to hear that. I love to – because, Donnie, so much stuff is happening in the world, and people in this hobby are getting – they're going completely apeshit over this. And I'm like, I don't care. Let me just unbox it and see if it irritates me. But if it's that small, I can live with it. I mean I don't get angry about stuff like that. That's just how I am, Donnie. I mean, we're going to be making fun of this derpy dragon from now on. That'll be like the one thing about Harry Potter we make fun of. Doesn't kill the whole game. You know, we're not talking about like a barbecue situation here where they just kind of took stock footage of meat rolling and decided that that was a compelling gameplay element. Can I say something very evil? Yeah. That barbecue game with all that fresh meat, it's much more ew for me than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Seriously, I mean it. I don't like it, man. It's just a fresh meat, all over the place. I like it because I like stuff that's weird and stupid, and that's it, man. I wish the game played better. Honestly, I'd have one if you could actually hit those ramps and rip the spinners, but I just haven't had a successful game on barbecue ever. I mean, the way game prices are going down right now, right? So you can probably find them pretty, pretty cheap. I'll put my $2,500 barbecue next to my $3,000 ABBA. I think I will do that.
    26:36
    In my weird corner of my collection. Nice, man. Before we jump over to the next game, I want to ask you, do you have some games you want to buy? Some, you know, weird games. I can start with one of mine. Sure. I don't know why, but I'm on the lookout for a James Bond now. No way. Just a pro version, yeah. I like the theme. I like, yeah, not the 60s edition or what's it called. Just, you know, the premium pro LE version, you know. Just a pro. I'm looking for it.
    27:16
    The game speaks to me now. I don't know why. I love George Gomez games. I love the theme. I don't know if it's a European thing, but James Bond is just, I love it. The music is cool. So that's the game I'm looking for. And after this code update, I'm actually on the lookout for a John Wick now. Oh, snap, man. Yeah. I've heard John Wick Pro is going for the $4,000 range in certain instances. Cool. I like that. I really want to check out this John Wick code, man. I had that game, and I was like, great, I'm going to grow with this game. We're going to follow the code all the way up. I think they've got some cool plans coming on. And then it was just like, nope. and it was sitting there and sitting there and I'm like, I'm not just going to sit here and wait nine months for maybe this gets better. So John Wick got the hell out, even though that Ellie cabinet looked amazing. Did you get the Ellie, right? I did, yeah. You got the Ellie? Yeah, yeah. Full-ass game. It looked great, but, yeah, I couldn't keep it. I hope it gets some good code in there because I think there is a somewhat salvageable game. I think James Bond has a much more interesting layout than John Wick does and the James Bond layout has some issues in it. So I'll just say that.
    28:29
    Okay. But talking about James Bond, you know, last time we talked with Jeff from Mad Pinball. Guys, we're sponsored by Mad Pinball. We love Jeff over there. Right, Tony? There's more in this house. Yeah, baby. So, guys, if you want to buy, you know, Jaws, go into Mad Pinball, write the code WAP, and get free shipping and an awesome T-shirt from us. Right, Tony? I just sent out a package that I loaded with as much stuff as I could grab and put in there. So it's much more than a T-shirt that you're getting. Yeah, much more than a T-shirt. I grabbed some mods I'm working on and threw them in there, man. I think it's a five-hour energy in there. You get a whole bag of stuff. Nice. So when you buy your games from Matt, buy them from Matt Pinball, just write WAP. Just write Don is head high, Jenga is head high, retro Jenga is head high. Just from us, right? and we will give a t-shirt and Stern Games free shipping. And on top of that, we're also getting some insider stuff. I mean, I can read just a sneak peek here. We asked about the Predator game.
    29:35
    How do inquiries, is that how you pronounce it? That's how you pronounce it. Inquiries on the Predator have actually been steady. We have sold more than expected and blah, blah, blah. Things I Cannot Read.
    29:51
    And here, this one. We have an awesome used Bond Pro. Looks like new. Normally, $5,900. If you use the code WAP, you will get $400 off. What the heck, buddy? I mean, because saving you money is what we're about, man. Yeah. Oh, my God. Why not, man? Why not? It's so cool. So go in and check it out, guys. It's so cool. Do we have some weird games on the lookout for you or on the lookout for? Listen, man, I just picked up an Ultraman, so I'd – Wait. My advice. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I have a whole Patreon episode we're going to talk about. Oh. Because, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Donnie, today's Patreon is going to be awesome because all of a sudden Donnie hits me up. Guys, guys, Don and I, we're friends, right? When I want to talk with this guy, I wrote to him, you know. I wrote to him, what's up, buddy? How are you, buddy? Can you talk? Do you have time? Right? When this guy writes to me on weird hours, it's like, hey, guy.
    30:56
    Hey, guy. I love it. So he hits me up and he's like, I'm on my way over to Spooky and I have got this game with me and I'm looking for this game to trade with them. What do you think? So we had this long talk. So he was over there. Thank you for the pictures. And we had a great talk. I talk with Spooky. I'm not sure I'm going to talk about prices, but I talk with the Spooky team, and I'm going to share something about the new game, their upcoming game. I'm not going to say the title or nothing like that, but something really cool on Patreon. All right. Yeah, yeah. So I think this episode, Patreon episode, is going to be spooky, heavy Patreon show. Right, Donnie? Perfect. I love spoiling our Patreon folks, man. Yeah. So, yeah, we'll head over to the green room after this recording, and we'll get into it. Because I had a great day out there. Let's thank our Patreon guys, Tommy. Oh, yeah. Let's thank our Patreon guys. First of all, first of all, we lost some Patreon guys. And we need to say thank you to them also. Absolutely. So our premium $50 supporter, Jeremy Ford, is gone. There's some hoes in the house. Well, the hoes have left the house. Yeah, he's gone. It's okay, Jeremy Ford. Thank you for the premium support for two months, buddy. We love you. We miss you. You're welcome back anytime. Thank you for the support. Right, Tony? What an awesome way to kick off the show for us, too. So we really do appreciate those early adopters. Yes, absolutely. And another Hyrule supporter, collector's edition level, $150, Charles Forrest Storm, our tallest angels. He left us also. Gone but not forgotten, sir. Welcome back anytime. And thanks so much for the help, dude. Super appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, man. He can have my barbecue whenever he wants. It is what it is. Welcome back anytime. But we have to say thank you to Enzo Ferrari. We love some Enzo.
    32:57
    We still have Enzo going hard. We have Anthony Murua, our own Anthony Banderas. I love you. What a cool guy.
    33:07
    Yes. I want to hang out with Anthony again. Oh, we have got our, what was it, supreme leader, supporter, Josh Cox, the real Will and Steve.
    33:18
    Yeah, we got a private conversation going with Josh Cox. We are constantly staying updated. That dude's awesome. I mean, it's so cool with these high-level supporters. We have private line with them, and they're all welcome to write to us. But we also have a chat going on on our Patreon chat, and it's just so beautiful. There's just so much talk in there. On top of that, yes, we lost some supporters, but we also gained some new supporters. Right, Donnie? We're just happy. Come hang out. Come hang out, yeah. So let me see here. Joey B, DRZ, Ty Justice. What up, Ty? Welcome to the team, buddy. Hello. I want to say something awesome about Ty, right? Yeah. So Ty Justice, he comes in and he writes on the Patreon main page.
    34:12
    What do you call it? Supporting members main page. So Ty writes in there, hello, this is maybe pinball podcast number seven that I'm supporting. Right? He writes that. And then right under there, one of our, not you, not me, one of our other supporters writes back to Ty. He's like, yeah, welcome, buddy, but this one is the best.
    34:39
    That's awesome. That's so awesome, man. Yeah, Ty. So thank you, guys. Thank you for the positivity. I'm loving it. But also we have another supporter also. And when people support us, we will shield back, right? It's Colin, man. Colin entered the scene. Colin from Kinesis.
    35:01
    There we go. I wasn't sure if I was going to give him a hose or not. I mean, if you're listening to this, you know about Kineticist. You know about Colin's work. First of all, thank you, Colin. Thank you for joining the WAP team. It's so cool to have you on our Patreon page. So cool. And Colin is doing so much stuff for the pinball community. You can go into Kineticist and get all the news. If you want to run down on that whole AI debacle, he dove into it in a way that I could never do. So that was fantastic. He has everything in there. Also, another thing, if you're looking for pinball podcasters, pinball YouTubers, pinball media, whatever, whatever, go into Kineticist and check out the whole list. I mean, he has found out about everyone. Don's pinball podcast is in there. Everybody is in there. I heard about that. So that's a great list. Yeah. Go into Kineticist and check it out. And when people support us, we shield back. Look at Spooky. Spooky does – they have dual supporters from Spooky. How can you not shield Spooky back? Right, buddy? I can – yeah, absolutely. How can you not love them? Happy to because I – the guys are on fire, man. I love the games they've come out with. Evil Dead, it's sitting right there. Love that freaking game.
    36:22
    And they go for like $14,000, $15,000 now on the second-order market. And if you ask Buck, he's like, no, 888, that's it. We will not F up our supporters. So I have so much respect for right decisions like that. It's so good, man. It's so freaking good. I hope the next game will be about 800 again and just keep it there. Yeah, I'm going to talk about, like, the phone calls they get daily about that. yeah we're gonna talk about spooky on on on our patreon show so come on in enjoy five bucks that's it and if you want to be a higher graded supporter you're welcome for the premium lece or supreme edition and then we will thank you on on every show send your t-shirt don have don is making so many mods he will send you some mods why not donnie yeah i'll grab something crazy i'm working on just send it to you all right all right donnie dude yeah i have something i want to say to you oh please share yeah yeah yeah yeah hit me up guy this last two three weeks i have blocked some negative nancies on facebook you're kidding me Yeah. There's negative people on Facebook?
    37:44
    I don't use Pinsight. I mean, it's just, you know how it is, right? I don't use it. But I feel like some of those guys are infiltrating Facebook groups also. So there are some negative guys that just, I don't like negativity. I don't like hating on my hobby. I love this hobby. I'm here because I love it. I installed Pinto DMD this morning. I talked with Donnie this morning. I had so much fun enjoying everything. And then these negative Nancys.
    38:18
    When I started my YouTube channel 10 years ago, when this happened, when negativity hit me, I was like, I took it to me. I was like, I was bummed out about it. And then one guy like 10 years older than me, he was like, dude, you know what to do? you cannot help all these guys the thing you have to do is to block and forget block and forget that's it yeah that's it because i have no time for negativity in my life negativity and hate it just it feeds on each other's hate right that's just how i feel and it's different from like you know criticism right because i like games people don't like and you know they have their opinions and that's totally fine. But when it's like, hey, look at this cool thing I did, and it's like, man, that looks stupid. You're dumb. And it's like, what are you doing, dude? Yeah. So, Tony, there was some negativity. I'm like, I don't even want to go in and, you know, discuss something with this guy. I was like, fine, let me find the block button. So there we go. Block. Goodbye. Have a great life. Cool. next morning on my youtube channel it's just a username i don't know this username and he's like oh if you man you blocked me on facebook i hate you why did you block me blah blah blah i watch your videos you cannot block me i want to express myself blah blah blah and the cool part is donnie on youtube it's next level of blocking because on youtube You can press on this user, and you can say, hide the user. Because these negative Nancy's, they have this, in Danish we say, bråk at bråkessai. Oh, the bråkessai, yeah. I hate that. I dated a girl with that one. What's it called in English, man? Complain. Some people just want to complain to complain. That's it. Complain, complain, complain. Yeah. So on YouTube, you can press on this guy and say, hi, guy, hide this user from this account. That means this person, John Johnson, he can still go in and watch YouTube videos. He can still go in and complain, right? I hate this. I hate everything. I'm angry. But it's hidden. So nobody can see it I cannot see it You cannot see it Totally win What a win So he can complain Yeah He can come out with all his hate just all his hate and nobody can see it All that Borgicide. He gets all the Borgicide for himself. Yeah.
    41:15
    It's a totally win-win situation. I love it. So this happened, right? And this is like two, three weeks ago. This happened. And block and forget. So this morning, I get an email. Oh, I thought you were going to say a knock on the door. I got an email. So he's like, guy, I messed up. I'm so sorry. Sometimes I drink a lot and issue with the wife, and this is some psychological outlet for me. Please, please unblock me from everywhere. where I see nobody is writing when I'm writing on your YouTube posts. And when you and I block some guy on Facebook, they also get blocked from our We Are Pinball page on Facebook. So if you're not friends with Don and I, that means you're not in there either. So he was like, I messed up, I messed up, I will never do that again. And this morning I haven't answered him back, But how do you feel? Should I say, okay. I can't believe an internet troll actually has some remorse and reached out. That's incredible. I didn't think that ever happened. This is probably the first instance of that ever happening online.
    42:34
    I have had this before. But how are you when you get negativity from these keyboard internet warriors filled with hate? Donnie, he's a shill. He's a shill. He's a spooky shill. He loves everything. He buys 20 games a year. Blah, blah, blah. Hate, hate, hate. How, what, do you engage with these guys or do you just block them? How are you today? A hundred percent I'll engage, man. Yeah. I mean, as long as somebody, if they're violent or something, then of course I get blocked. But no, if it's like, you know, Don, you're a damn shill. And I'm like, please show me where to pick up the check. I'm down for this. I'm for sale. Just nobody's buying is the problem. I talk about pinball because I like it. I will talk up your terrible game if you pay me money for it, and so far nobody has done that. So until that happens, this is all based on my actual opinions. You must be getting these kickbacks. I'm like, where? They must not have my address. Where do I pick up the gift bags? I love swag, dude. Send me stuff. I'll give it to my friends, man. This is just pinball love. We are not getting money when we talk positive about pinball machines, but it is what it is. luckily yeah this is under 0.1 percent of the whole pinball community it's such a small percentage but they're also the guys that are online that are really hateful and complain complain complain so my word for today is block and forget that's just how i feel that the game grumps now like i've been in hobbies before where i've kind of lost interest or i get hyper critical and then I just go on to something else if I'm not enjoying it. So I'm wondering, are there people that are in the hobby that maybe have stayed in it too long that would be happier doing something else? And so it's just like I'm just going to regurgitate all this stuff because it's not exactly how I like it. That doesn't sound fun to me. So I think that's probably why it doesn't occur to me. If I'm not having fun, I'm going to go find fun somewhere else, right? Yeah. That's just how I feel. I'm here because I love this. Yeah, I mean, it's not like I'm like a bitter tournament player or something. Man, those guys are like the worst. Can you believe tournament pinball players? Like the most terrible people on the planet. I'm kidding. No, by the way.
    44:54
    We actually got an email that said something like, is it true that you hate all tournament players? 100%. I'm like, what? Yeah. Why? My wife left me for a tournament player, so I've got guns out for them. I'm coming for you. Donnie, the only thing for a lot of shows back, we said, you and I, we agreed on, it's not fun to listen to some people playing tournament somewhere and some other podcast show are talking about that tournament. That's not fun to listen to. That's the only thing for me. I don't know. Did you say something like you hate all tournament players or something? My mind's already wandering. I don't have the attention span to focus on something like that. I love playing me some tournaments. I love playing me some pinball. I love hanging out. I can't stand watching it because I don't have anything to wrap my attention around, you know, watching someone play bad cats. I get that people love it. I love that it's being streamed for people. I get bored streaming myself, to be honest. I'm, like, playing a pinball machine. I'm, like, I'm supposed to stream for an hour. I'm already bored. I want to go do something else, but I've got the stream rig already set up for this game. I want to go play that thing. I want to go get a soda. I want to go 3D print something. I want to go skateboarding. So I don't even like streaming myself. I get bored.
    46:20
    Donnie, personally, right now, I want to James Bond. So if there is a tournament where they play James Bond with the newest code, but I need to listen to the game. and it was on YouTube so I couldn't hear the game, see the gameplay, then I could watch that. Then it's okay for me. But if, you know, John Johnson on his podcast show is talking about a tournament that happened two months ago and, you know, Martin Martinson won something. It's just boring for me. It seems like it's like the same ten guys that are always winning everything. this change the order up so like i don't know i will tell you what's fun though what has been fun tournament related that i'm super getting into are highlights that i've been seeing as i'm scrolling little clip videos will go up um fox city pinballs has been doing this electric bat arcade has been doing this like let me just grab this cool little death save that happened or something cool and they put that up and i'm like i'm watching those like four or five times because that's awesome i want that i'll watch me some highlight reels some bloopers like let me see that yeah for sure That's awesome. Yeah, Fox City Pinball, Tom Talks, he got nothing to say. Sometimes I see these 10-second clips, and Tom is like, whoa, what happened? And I'm like, what the heck happened? So I watch it a second time, and they do this crazy save. That's cool. And that's in tournament mode. That's cool. And again, if it's on YouTube, I'm watching it, that's fine. But the only negative thing we said was it's not fun to listen to something that happened a long time ago, and it's only audio. It's not visual.
    48:04
    That's the only thing. So we don't hate no tournament players. That's some BS. I think if I was playing in tournaments regularly like some of these guys do, I would understand it a whole lot more, and then it would be really interesting. So I think for those kind of people, they're like, what do you mean? This is fantastic coverage. What do you mean you don't like it? You must be an asshole. And it's like, no, I don't live in that realm. I have no context to hang it on to. But I want to see your highlight clips. Those are fire. I love those. if you knew all the names of the players, then I think it's cool to listen to stuff like that. That'd be cool. Yeah. And I am blessed. I do love this hobby that it's so accessible and it's probably nice that I live like in Wisconsin and I can go into Chicago. Cause like, you know, I, I think I played barbecue with Steve Bowden one time at a show. Like that was fun. Like, so when I hear his name, cause it dudes everywhere and he's fire. Like, I'm like, okay, well I know that guy. I'm glad he did well. Um, Ray day I've met, he's a cool guy. Um, you know, Dave Slaymaker, he's going to be cool with me forever. He helped me up when I was stranded on the side of the road, so shout out to that dude.
    49:08
    Even though he doesn't like toppers or dust covers, I'm kidding, it's so fun. Yeah, so maybe the longer I'm in there, the more I meet these people, it'll be fun. But, you know, as far as, like, the Chicago dudes, yeah, dudes are awesome. Mitch Johns is cool, kicking ass, everybody, yeah. We just don't talk about tournaments, but we don't hate tournament players. And, you know, we have an email from Joe, and we asked for permission from Joseph Barlow, and he said, it's okay, you read it loud. So usually we don't read mails, right, Donnie? But he just, I can read the chat. He says, hi, guys, I'm enjoying the podcast. Keep it up. I would also like to thank you two for not, not with three big letters, not talking about tournament pinball. The only thing more, yeah, and then about, yeah. But, I mean, people, yeah, I don't want to read it. I want to hear the rest.
    50:03
    I want to hear the rest. Do you want me to read it? No, it's okay. No, no, man, I don't want to miss out. Yeah, yeah, but that, yeah. But he thanked, people are thanking us for not talking about tournament on our show. So this one guy, he was like, Is it true that you two hate all tournament players in the world? We were like, what?
    50:25
    What is this? No. I don't have hate in me, Donnie. No, no, no, no, no. I hate cancer. I hate pollution. I hate paying taxes. I don't hate tournament. Donnie, in Denmark, we don't hate paying taxes. Because we get so much benefit from it, man. I wish we were getting some of that.
    50:45
    But you are getting. Look at your roads. Who are paying for your roads in the U.S.? Look at all your clean toilets out there. Who are paying for them? Do you pay for not high school but normal elementary school? Do you pay for that? Isn't that free also? Kind of, yeah. It depends on the property taxes in the area, the quality of the education. It's available to public school. Man, I could go on a tirade about that. But, yeah, so for now, yes. And that's cool. Yeah.
    51:17
    Okay, okay, okay. Last game we're going to talk about is... It's a game, man. Guys, guys, guys. You need to sit down for this one. You need to sit down and... This was your game, man. This was your game. This was your dream theme is here finally. It should be nothing but like rainbows and assholes. I don't know if you have that expression in 10 Mark I barely think we have it here it's fine, rainbows and assholes, alright alright, alright, yes this is a dream theme for me, right this is a dream theme, so okay Donny, give me three minutes and dear listener sit down, okay, so what happened, I found out about this two months before release for two months I sent like two letters, mails to Pinball Brothers and about three and a half week before the release, I got in, right? So I got in, signed an NDA, I was hooked. Just a bit more than three weeks before release, I started hyping this game up because I love this theme. So every two, three days, I showed something, something, something. And yeah, we had very few media creators that were envy, that were hateful against it, but everybody else were just hyped. They were so hyped. They were loving this. More retro. This is so much fun. More, more, more. Everything was cool.
    52:53
    And then J.J.P.'s Harry Potter came. I was there. With a great game. Great, great, successful launch. Great game. Emptying everybody's pockets. And then we got Predator a couple of days later.
    53:10
    Predator came out. and my promotion part was over. I did it from my own kind heart. Nobody's believing me. Everybody's writing, you are getting paid for this. You are getting a free game for this. You should have.
    53:27
    You 100% should have. Nobody's listening. People are still writing. Retro Django, you didn't do all that promotion for free. I don't believe you. Still, people are like this, Donnie. And I know I got, I never asked for payment. I said at the beginning, I want nothing. I just want to, this is a dream thing for me. I want to hype it up. I'm so excited about this. The game came out and people were positive when the game came out.
    53:56
    We got some interviews when the game came out. The pinball content creators were positive when the game came out. So my part is done. Cool. So a couple of days goes by.
    54:10
    I write to these guys. And usually, Pinball Brothers and I, we talk multiple times every day. I write to these guys. Congratulations with the launch. I hope everything went well.
    54:23
    How are the sales going now? Don and I are planning to make a pinball podcast show. If you have some info, share it with us, and we can share it with people and, you know, do some stuff. Again, everything for free, nothing there, just helping out.
    54:38
    And still to this day, many, many days later, they haven't answered me back. What? I don't know. Radio silence. Maybe. Dude, maybe they are very, very, what's it called when they have a lot of stuff to do? Swedish.
    54:54
    Swedish? Yeah. They're just, you know, they have a lot of stuff to do. Well, have you ever put together a Swedish pinball machine? I mean, you got all those parts. It comes flat pass. You have to assemble it. They probably lost the Allen wrench.
    55:08
    Dude, dude, what happened? So, oh, I'm so sorry. Josh Cox is riding. Welcome to the show, Josh. What up, Joshy? Let's read his email. What do you think of me in the Speedo? Oh, dude, I can't read that on air.
    55:25
    Dude, he's our supreme supporter. You have changed his name to Big Daddy Josh Cox. so yeah predator let's get back everybody's writing where's arnold where's arnold okay so a video clip comes out with a lot of arnold a lot of get to the chopper and everything and i see this and i see this i'm like whoa this didn't get sent to me by pinball brothers odd but another youtuber okay okay i can live with that it's okay and i was like cool copy paste shared on we are pinball facebook group shared on our patreon shared on my youtube channel this is cool you collect all these guys and amazing some days passes by and i found out about a new podcaster through pinball brothers called oh man i'm so bad with names deadpool podcast oh yeah yeah fuck yeah i know what you're talking about dirty pool dead dirty pool okay i in two minutes i will say deadpool again i'm so sorry dirty pool pinball podcast show right what a great guy he interviews um daniel j in there the owner of the company and daniel says that video is not an official video please don't share it and i'm like whoa they didn't even say i should check those videos that everybody shared it i know yeah so when i when i hit that i removed all the video clips i had so all done and gone for me of course respect the company yeah two three four days goes by and we get the first official video I was there for that I remember it Donnie the first official video this is Predator pinball they have shot over to the left side of the game as you can see ball travels to the left and then comes back to the flipper you see the light there's the light show and then we will hit flapper and flapper will send ball to the end I got it all memorized.
    57:46
    Wait. So this video comes out. Tony, I cannot even look at you now. This pop bumper will go off. There's the predator in the back. Oh, turn off the camera.
    58:02
    So, okay, I live in Denmark. I'm like 30 minutes from Sweden, and I have a lot of Swedish friends. One of my great friends, Anas, no, in Sweden I have to call him Andos, but in Denmark we say Anas. I heard that about you guys.
    58:17
    He talks, he's very subtle, he's a very neutral guy. This is a pinball machine. He talks like that, right? I am more into making this. Swedish people, so for me it was normal. But then when I got hooked up by other media creators, they were like, what the heck this is a bore fest like nothing else then I you know took a step back and I listened to it with you know American ears I was like no Daniel what are you doing right I did I understand on it and then the negativity started and my heart was just broken and positive pinball media creators started to talk negative one after the other i was like no no this ain't happening and it was this will activate the chopper the chopper is there have to spin look i don't care about the accent listen to my accent it's so bad when i re-listen to these shows i don't get what i'm saying forget about the accent that's not important the important part is no enthusiasm, no salesmanship, nothing. Nothing! There's just no passion. I live an hour from them. Just hit me up. I will drive over there. Look at the shot. It's so cool. We hit the chopper here, and then the pop-up versus sitting under here, and then watch it come back. The wire form under the flippers. There's a wire form under the flippers with physical ball locks and a Gatling gun, and I'm already I'm sleeping harder than I am when I'm watching a tournament stream. He's actually covering the game. Yeah.
    60:06
    Where is that passion? And I love Daniel J. I love him. I love the company. We have been friends for so many years. But why this way? And I was just certain. I was certain this would never happen. Because they have got a media guy now. And a stick in Daniel that I have been talking to for three weeks. such a great guy and i was like okay this time the promotion will be awesome because i i said this i said the older games you made the promotion was not good i i said this to them i'm not talking i'm not bashing them i said this to their faces you know so but this time with the new daniel i was like this is going to be cool and they they've released this right we're not done yet and the Negativity just comes.
    60:59
    And people are like, they feel like I owe 51% of Pinball Brothers Company, which I don't do. And people are like, Retro Django, what the heck is this? What I do? Why? People don't get it, right? The secret third step Pinball Brother. The Pinball Step Brother.
    61:19
    The mother brother. I don't know why. I cannot tell you what happened. So we're not done yet. We're not done yet. So on top of this I watching this because first phone conversation Now this is very private stuff but I think it okay to share The first phone conversation, of course, I asked about Arnold. And I got the most beautiful explanation why Arnold isn't there. And I just got told some future maybe stuff because they were passionate on that phone call. When Daniel and I talked first time on the phone call, there was some passion in there, Donnie.
    62:03
    I got very fine explanation, and he said they paid an actor to do this, and wow, cool. So I joked around. I said, you know, pinball is a small community. Everybody knows everybody. If you're interested, we could make a retro Django package. I would do that for free, right, Donnie? Oh, my goodness. Just some extra download content. Why not? Could be fun. We love it. Could be. We had so great talk with Daniel J, the owner. Okay.
    62:36
    And I'm like, I'm not worthy Arnold's voice. I'm not. So, Donnie, I get a notification. We got gameplay video. I turn on my big-ass green TV in the living room. Turn off all the lights. The audio is at 100. All right. I tell my son to go into his room, play some games. whatever, eating his chicken nuggets, whatever. And I'm watching this.
    63:03
    And we're getting one of the most iconic lines in the history of movies. The Ron, go get to the chopper line. Right? Everybody knows this. I know it. Yeah, everybody knows this. So I'm watching this full-on audio.
    63:24
    And Arnold gets hit. his head is chopped off on the video assets so you can only see the body okay his head is chopped off you can only see the body and he says instead of no he says and i'm like this this no so he falls down and he doesn't say run he he falls down and Second time he says, yal, yal, yal, yal.
    63:54
    And I freeze up there. I just, I froze. And then he says again, yal, yal, yal. Get to the chopper. And I paused it. And I'm in shock. I'm like, no. I saw it. In comes my son with a chicken leg in his hand. He just comes out. He took a bite of it. He just looks at me. And I'm sitting there. I'm looking at him. He looks at me. And my son, he's like, what the fuck was that? What the fuck was that? And I'm like, oh, no. We have voice actors who do the lines. And it's like, no, it's not Arnold. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    64:40
    I'm in shock, and my phone starts beeping. Yeah. Messages on messages. beam beam beam it's like it's just coming in oh my god and I'm trying to answer and you know I'm getting these hateful messages people are writing retro Django you had one fucking thing to do and you messed up one this fucking one line and I'm like I didn't say the line it's not me you were doing the voice call outs and fucked it up Don started writing it and went this is retro It's his.
    65:19
    People were so angry at me, Donnie. How can you mess this line up? How can you? I mean, I got so many hate messages. For the first hour, it was like so hateful. You fucked it up. How could you do this? Just own it.
    65:34
    I had to go in and make a short video so everybody could listen because I don't want to do no hate, no nothing towards them. But I had to make a video and say it wasn't me. Donnie, listen to this.
    65:50
    This is the real deal. That's Arnold. And this is the new guy. We start Chopin multiple in the jungle.
    66:14
    And there will be a number of jackpots. There will be a number of jackpots. Donnie. Donnie, I love, I love, I love this theme. I love it. I want, I want everybody to love this game.
    66:32
    No, no, no, no. I'm so, because they haven't answered me back. I'm not going to write second time to them if they don't want to answer me ok they don't answer me I respect that ok ok but I'm so I'm burning up inside because like positive pinball content creators are saying shit about this now when they do it I mean we're done we're it's just it's over I'm so sad about why Why this boring gameplay video? Why this? When Don talks like Arnold, he does it 20 times better than this paid actor. Oh, man. Donald, Donald, Donald, Donald. No, no, it's, no.
    67:30
    Man, I don't know. Like, you put so much time and effort and resources into creating a product like this. It takes years. You got to be secret the whole time. It's difficult to manufacture. And then just simple things like this.
    67:44
    Yeah. Why? Why did they do this? Call me. Donnie, I actually a couple of weeks back when we talked, I wrote to these guys and I said, you guys know what I did for Alien because my Alien videos are just so many viewers and my first unboxing of Alien. It's actually a three-part video. And two days ago on video part number two, you can go and check it out, where I take the speakers off the Alien. A guy writes in there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Inns with RetroDingo, your passion made me want to buy this game. I just bought a Ripley edition because of this video part two. Boom. Two days ago. Okay. So I wrote to these guys. Guys, it will cost you $200.
    68:40
    Send me a Predator game. Let me have it here for two months. Imagine what I can do for you. I'm not a pro recorder. I'm not a pro audiovisual guy. No, I'm not that. But I have so much passion in me. I have so much love and passion in me. And you know what? Just like negativity feeds on negativity, love and passion, positivity, It just goes to the next guy. If you're listening, if you're watching, it's so cool. I could do magic. If there was something in the code I don't like, I would say, hey, guys, we cannot release this. We have to work on this. I could do magic. I don't think it. For free. I could do magic. I don't think anybody would argue with any of that business. Go across the Orisund, grab a game, show it off. Gosh, man. Pinball Brothers. R.I.P. They're done. American Pinball outlasted the Pinball Brothers. I can't believe it. Bedlam nuts. The first game that they came out with Alien was okay, and then it's just straight been downhill since then. This was supposed to be the return to form, and parts of the game look pretty cool, but this all falls apart.
    69:55
    Donnie, do you know why I love this game? I don't know. I don't think this will be negative. Go into Pinsight right now and search Whirlwind. I want to just look at the play field of the Whirlwind when I'm telling you this. Okay. When you find the Whirlwind play field, just let me hear. All right. I don't think this will come out negative. No, I don't think so. Now, I have Whirlwind impregnated in my head. I got it. Okay. So if you look at the right side, you have this right orbit shot on Whirlwind, right? Beautiful, right? just a bit left to it you have the right ram shot which is awesome on whirlwind right yeah that right ram shot on predator and the orbit shot is exactly the same so perfect in the middle at the back side you have got three pop bombers on whirlwind there you have the predator cool next to it you have this orbit ramp from the right flipper goes up to the left upper ramp right i know on your whirlwind yeah exactly the same ram is on predator awesome you look far to the left you see two scoops on on the uh whirlwind and you see a middle shot between the pop bombers on whirlwind you have exactly the same thing on predator but the left scoop is true stand-up targets so this game is inspired by whirlwind and i love whirlwind right so who doesn't love a freaking whirlwind exactly so we have in i don't know if i should say inspired but it reminds me of whirlwind this was the first thing i saw i was like this is freaking cool and it's whirlwind for me for me personally now these are three designers if they design this from you know from zero to everything i respect that nothing bad for me don't take it the wrong way but this is how i fell i was like whoa this is whirlwind with predator theme awesome at the backside instead of those pop bombers we have a predator that comes up to the left we have got the chopper to the lower right we have got the minigun this is so awesome and i was sold i was sold because i love the the right ram on on whirlwind and i love that picard when i say picard shot it's 1993 Star Trek Next Generation, you have got this loopable Picard shot. If you know what it is. Son of a bitch. I'm looking at the Predator playfield now after looking at Whirlwind fresh and I'm like, oh my god.
    72:33
    Can you see now? Yeah, it's right here. How could I not see it the whole time? Oh, you didn't see it before this? I mean, I don't pick up on subtleties very well.
    72:45
    Oh, okay. So, can you see the inspiration? I see the IP. theft that they did. I mean, the sweepable drop-down targets are there, I mean, you know, at the middle of the playfield, if you look on both games, and if you want to get inspiration from another game, take it from Whirlwind! It's a great idea, right? I mean, wow! If I should, you know, get some inspiration, I would take from Iron Maiden. I love stuff like that. So, for me, it was like, whoa! And I asked, do you have the music yes we have the music i was like whoa and to be honest you can go in you can go back and you can watch arnold when he became the governor of california right so he says that he says something like on the interview you can watch it and he says like they wanted to pay me $187,000 salary a year, and that's petty money. And I said, keep your money. I didn't want no petty cash from the government. And he doesn't care about $178,000 of paycheck every year. How can you buy Arnold to be in a, we're going to sell 800 pinball machines. That's very expensive. So in my mind, I'm like, it's just not going to happen. So he has got so much money. he doesn't care with his hands up in the air, right? So I respect that, Tony. But this guy that messes up the Arnold call-out, this game needs to come out with an option where I can block it. Because if I listen to that kind of Arnold, it will destroy everything for me. So it's so negative that you're going to block it like a Facebook troll. I cannot. I grew up with this. I grew up with all these. Stick around. Everything. I grew up with this. It's just. I cannot.
    74:58
    Stick around. Donnie, you have to. Kaneda made a free show. Yeah. Where he talked about this. And he can make the same sound as the paid actor did. Like one to one. even Kaneda says why don't you just invite Genghis over get some passion in the video I mean what the heck is going on right so I hope that I can you know disable this guy's voice at least or go in and you know try one more time and say the line the correct way run you know run go yeah yeah it irritates me. You have some movies you grew up with, Donnie, that just, it's just in your, and is that, do you have some movies that you watch, you know, 20 times? Oh, yeah, yeah. Pulp Fiction was one of them. Trainspotting would be another. Whoa, Pulp Fiction, okay, Pulp Fiction. So they make Pulp Fiction, and you're like, whoa, do you still have your Pulp Fiction? 100%. I got my electric playground topper. Hell yeah. I'm going to powder coat it. And every time you played that game, it said something like,
    76:10
    an Ezekiel what, that line, furious anger in my younger hunger if it was just messed up. That was exactly, word for word, the line, yes. Yes, and I'll get furious. And I will strike down upon thee with great furious anger. Those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. Yeah. Yes. And if that voice was completely off and the line was off, not furious, but he said, and I'm angry. And oh, it will irritate me.
    76:52
    Sounds just like Jules right now. But it just, I'm sweating here. I'm like, look at this mad pinball. It was pink. now it's orange light because I'm so, I'm not angry. I'm so, what's it called? I'm disappointed and I'm heartbroken. Is that the word? I'm heartbroken. Well, what's the word in Danish?
    77:15
    Ja, er killet. You're totally ja, er killet. Yeah, I can see it. Ja, er killet. Don, you need to learn Danish. Guys, personal stuff. DJ Khaled. I'm talking with Don, you know. sometimes we have these deep conversations as two good friends have and one of the days he sends me a picture of his great great grandparents and it was so he sends me the picture and he says and I can read the names and it was Lars Christensen yeah he's yeah Lars it's called Lars just like the drummer on Metallica he's Lars oh ok I got other words for him but yeah so Donny, so you have some Danish blood in you and Lars Christensen is, you know Christ, Christensen you know, it's so Danish yeah, but you need to yeah, so yeah, I got killed because of Predator fixing release, but I don't know man, I wish they did stuff different and I'm not saying invite me over I'm not saying nothing like that, I'm just saying invite anyone that has got some fire and passion and salesmanship in him dash her just invite them pay the money it's peanuts pay the money i don't invite tony over i don't care but just not this kind of release not on this game do this on abba not on this you would sell an extra thousand games it would more than make up for the cost involved just don't bungle the easy stuff man you did the hard stuff you designed it you pushed all the inserts in there you got it clear-coated you built the cabinet that's not easy and then you just this easy stuff gets messed up come on it's just it's just sad nothing negative it's it's just sad that's that's how i feel about it because I was so, you know, our Patreon supporters, they were hyped. The hype level was through the roof. People were writing, this game, Retro Jango, because of this hype you have been doing for three weeks, no matter what, we're going to buy this game, no matter what, we're going to buy this game next to our alien. And now they come out with like this, and they just, everything I did, They destroyed it in one freaking day, in one move. And I want new call-outs, and I want a brand-new gameplay video from a passionate guy.
    79:59
    I don't care about a good player. I just want passion. Passion, Donnie. Because, you know, when I made my last video, now this was so fun. Because when I made my last video, a couple of videos back, three weeks before, I was like, yeah, I confirm Predator is the next game. And I know about their upcoming game, which is Ace of Base. And I play Ace of Base for five seconds. And people are like, oh, that could be so awesome. So I made these tidbits in there. On the Predator video, when I end the video, I start talking about, and I say, goodbye, I'm done. And then I have this one-minute clip. Oh, my God, I've seen the topper. It's a huge producer with a cannon out there. I was believing you. That would cost like $30,000. And the feedback was, this is awesome. You need to do this on all of your videos. Except one guy. Darn it. He hits me up. He's like, dude, I'm going to order this topper no matter what.
    80:59
    All right, well, if Frederick has re-recorded call-outs or altered shots or does come out with an amazing topper, you'll hear about it on We Are Pinball, episode number 40, which will be coming up. Because, Genghis, we've got to get over to the green room and do the bonus episode here soon. Is it spooky time? It's spooky time. Guys, you need – it's $5. Come in and join the fun, man. Right, Tony? It's about to go off. Let's get over there and have some fun. I'm fired up, baby. I'm fired up. We Are Pinball 69 is how you find us. 69.gmail.com, of course, is our email address. Join us on Patreon.com backslash WeArePinball. We're going to be having fun in there. We're going to be talking for another 40 minutes probably all about some spooky fun stuff. So let us know what your opinions are about this show, about AI art in general, about – Come learn Danish from Jengis. We don't care because we are pinball. Absolutely. We are pinball, baby.
    82:04
    Yeah.