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Ep 67: FOOFATHERTANKFICTION

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 37m·analyzed·Mar 17, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Carl D'Angelo joins Final Round to discuss streaming formats, game difficulty trends, and playfield design across manufacturers.

Summary

Final Round Pinball Podcast Episode 67 features a surprise guest appearance by Carl D'Angelo, who discusses his upcoming Pin Clash Godzilla streaming event, recent gameplay impressions of Scooby-Doo, and broader industry trends in game difficulty and design philosophy. The hosts and Carl explore whether newer pinball games are intentionally easier to appeal to home collectors versus tournament players, examining recent releases like Foo Fighters, James Bond, and Godzilla, and debate the merits of head-to-head streaming formats versus traditional long-form tournaments.

Key Claims

  • In-Disc's final broadcast achieved over 1 million views with 15,000 concurrent viewers, making it a bullseye for making pinball palatable to the general public

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis, discussing In-Disc viewership metrics during conversation with Carl D'Angelo

  • Pin Clash head-to-head format (2-5 minute matches) is more watchable for casual viewers than long-form tournaments because it's quick, easy to understand, and requires minimal tutorial

    high confidence · Carl D'Angelo explaining the strategic appeal of Pin Clash format for streaming

  • Heads-up tournament format currently receives zero IFPA TGP (Tournament Gross Points) under IFPA rules, despite producing exciting competition

    high confidence · Martin discussing IFPA TGP valuation policy; notes TGP maximum has doubled to 50 points recently

  • Scooby-Doo (Spooky) early code has the entire ruleset completable in a single play session, allowing exploit gameplay (repeatedly playing Captain Cutler multiball)

    high confidence · Carl D'Angelo's early gameplay impressions after visiting Ace Goge

  • Recent games (James Bond, Foo Fighters, Galactic Tank Force, Godfather) are shipping with easier difficulty curves and more accessible multiball activation to provide home collector satisfaction

    medium confidence · Martin articulating an observed pattern in manufacturer strategy; acknowledges this is inference not confirmed fact

  • Fathom 2.0 (Spooky/Marty) receives consistent feedback that it is very difficult but has strong 'one more go' replay appeal

    high confidence · Marty describing feedback on his own game code design

  • Turtles was the last truly difficult Stern game; subsequent releases (Mandalorian, Rush, Godzilla, Foo Fighters) have progressively easier default playfield geometry or code

    medium confidence · Martin proposing design trend hypothesis; Carl offers partial agreement and pushes back on some comparisons

  • Home users are now the primary market for pinball, and they prioritize satisfaction/feeling successful over hard difficulty, unlike location operators who wanted fast turnover

Notable Quotes

  • “If you've ever listened to the show, you know that sometimes, maybe, we discuss pinball. It comes out now and again. We don't mean to, it just happens.”

    Jeff Teolis @ Opening — Sets the show's comedic tone; establishes that the podcast prioritizes personality and banter over pinball discussion

  • “I have never been one to blow smoke up your ass, but this may be the greatest final round episode of all time.”

    Jeff Teolis @ 0:30 — Builds hype for the mystery guest reveal; indicates Carl's appearance is highly valued by the hosts

  • “You made my first US pinball experience the best. Oh, yes. And I will never forget that, ever.”

    Jeff Teolis (about Carl D'Angelo) @ Mid-episode — Reveals deep personal connection and respect between Jeff and Carl; establishes why Carl was a priority guest

  • “It's a couple days of pain... the day before production and the final stream event. But I enjoy getting more people on Twitch. That's really the goal of this thing is to try to expand the pinball viewership a bit, get some new streamers out there.”

    Carl D'Angelo @ ~30min — Clarifies Carl's motivation for Pin Clash: accessibility and viewership growth, not competitive glory

  • “I'm just going to start that multi-ball, play it out, and then just shoot back up top and start that multi-ball again, over and over and over... coders love hearing that.”

    Carl D'Angelo @ ~50min — Critical feedback on Scooby-Doo upper playfield design; indicates premature code completion and exploitable gameplay loops

  • “Fuck it's hard. Second one is it has the one more go effect. People just want to keep playing it. That's good, I'm happy with that.”

    Martin (about Fathom 2.0 feedback) @ ~60min — Contrasts with ease trend; shows difficulty doesn't prevent replayability if game is well-designed

  • “The visual quality, I think I've finally gotten to the spot that I'm pretty happy with how things look on stream... Jeff's scheduling of all the commentators did a spectacular job.”

Entities

Carl D'AngelopersonJeff TeolispersonMartin RobbinspersonSpooky LukepersonScooby-DoogameFathom 2.0game

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: In-Disc broadcast achieved 1M+ views and 15K concurrent viewers; successfully attracted casual/mainstream viewers to pinball content. Attributed to visual production quality, strong commentary coordination, and engaging gameplay.

    high · Carl D'Angelo and Jeff Teolis discuss In-Disc metrics; Jeff notes 'the bullseye as far as it goes to making pinball now palatable to the general public'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Recent Stern and non-Stern releases prioritize early-game satisfaction and accessible multiball activation for home users over skill-gated progression. Difficulty skew toward required shots being easier than optional ones.

    high · Carl identifies Scooby-Doo and Foo Fighters as completable in early sessions; Martin articulates trend across James Bond, Galactic Tank Force, Godfather

  • ?

    product_concern: Scooby-Doo early code allows entire ruleset to be completed in single play, enabling exploit gameplay (repeating Captain Cutler multiball). Upper playfield overstays, slow shot returns, geometry issues on rightmost ramp.

    high · Carl D'Angelo's detailed gameplay critique: 'I'm just going to start that multi-ball, play it out, and then just shoot back up top and start that multi-ball again, over and over'

  • $

    market_signal: Market has shifted decisively toward home collectors as primary customer. Home users prioritize satisfaction/success over difficulty and have different play-time expectations (longer sessions) vs. location operators (fast turnover).

    high · Martin: 'Home users are the main market now, and they still have to be... they want to have some satisfaction... whereas operators didn't want you playing a game for an hour'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.293

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. it's player versus player and player versus machine welcome to the final round
0:39
I have never been one to blow smoke up your ass, but this may be the greatest final round episode of all time. My name is Jeff Teolas. My name is Martin.
0:52
We haven't even recorded, so that's a big call to make. Why could this be the best show ever? Let me give you the factors, okay? If you've ever listened to the show, you know that sometimes, maybe, we discuss pinball. It comes out now and again. We don't mean to, it just happens. The real reason for this show is for Marty and I to talk and have fun and bust each other's balls. Wow.
1:17
Sure. So, you know, we weren't doing as many shows. It was getting tough for me to do a lot of the editing. And my good Australian friend said, you know what? Why don't we alternate? And I'll do one, you do one. And that just made it a lot easier, especially this week. because Marty is going to be editing this week. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Sure. What's the hardest thing about editing that we found? Finding the time to do it. Actually, finding the energy, the life force to want to edit is probably the hardest thing. But finding the time, stitching things together, combining them, I don't know, where do we go? Hmm. Well, I just want to say last week for those, I'm going to pull back the curtain here. Last week, Marty's computer shut down, I don't know, four, five times. Five times. So it was difficult to edit and puzzle piece that together to make it sound like it was, you know, a nice flowing show. There was continuity. We did well. You edited it. You did a fantastic job. Thank you. I'm not going to crash my computer, but I'm going to do something else. Again, back to the old busting of the balls. The thing I found difficult in the early days of doing editing, and it was really, really hard, was when you had a guest on.

high confidence · Martin proposing market segmentation explanation; supported by Carl and Jeff

Carl D'Angelo @ ~40min — Identifies concrete factors behind In-Disc's streaming success: production quality and commentary coordination

  • “I think Mandalorian has a medium level difficulty layout mainly because a lot of the posts, a lot of the shots are actually quite close to the flipper, so if you miss them, you know it's death. But they make the shots that you need to get the easiest shots.”

    Carl D'Angelo @ ~75min — Articulates design philosophy: make required shots accessible while keeping optional shots dangerous

  • “If home users are the main market now... they still have to be... They don't care about how hard they are because operators didn't want you playing a game for an hour, whereas home users want to have some satisfaction.”

    Martin @ ~85min — Proposes market-driven explanation for difficulty shift; acknowledges market segmentation as primary driver

  • “I think it's now being able to feel like you're blowing up the game. I think that is now a lot more accessible and a lot closer to the start button.”

    Carl D'Angelo @ ~80min — Reframes difficulty debate: not about wizard mode access but about early-game satisfaction and accessibility

    • Foo Fighters
    game
    Godzillagame
    Pin Clashevent
    In-Discevent
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)company
    Turtlesgame
    Mandaloriangame
    Rushgame
    IFPAorganization
    Jack Dangerperson
    Ace Kogevenue
    Halloweengame

    competitive_signal: Head-to-head/Pin Clash format produces watchable entertainment but receives zero IFPA TGP. Carl and Martin discuss whether IFPA should award TGP to incentivize more head-to-head events. Recent TGP max increase to 50 points widens gap for non-TGP events.

    high · Martin: 'heads up format... has been regulated to one ball for TGP... it's not worth anything at that point'; Carl notes TGP maximum doubling makes gap bigger

  • ?

    design_innovation: Carl articulates modern design strategy: make required shots accessible from both flippers while keeping optional shots dangerous. Example: Mandalorian's close-proximity shots create death risk but required shots are easiest available options.

    high · Carl: 'they make the shots that you need to get the easiest shots' and 'if you miss them, you know it's death... but that is a big upper playfield problem for many games'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Martin (as designer) has shifted perspective: no longer views 'coders will hear players doing the same thing over and over' as negative feedback; instead values 'one more go' replay appeal even when game is very hard.

    medium · Martin: 'Fuck it's hard... Second one it has the one more go effect. People just want to keep playing it. That's good, I'm happy with that.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Godzilla intentionally designed with building shot as primary target (easier from both flippers). Rewards 'missed' shots (building hit while aiming for ramps). Requires flipper skill to avoid drain but offers recovery opportunities.

    high · Carl: 'You can hit it from both flippers... it's not an easy shot, but it's certainly easier than either of the ramps'; 'Godzilla punishes you for bad flipper decisions'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Martin Robbins (Spooky) emerging as recognized designer voice in industry; Fathom 2.0 receiving significant community feedback; code design choices being analyzed alongside major manufacturers.

    medium · Martin's code and design philosophy featured prominently in Carl/Jeff discussion; Fathom 2.0 cited as intentional contrast to ease trend

  • ?

    event_signal: Pin Clash Godzilla event confirmed by Carl D'Angelo; upcoming streaming challenge in same format as Jurassic Park, Avengers, and Iron Maiden editions. Designed to showcase world-class play and introduce casual viewers to game depth.

    high · Carl: 'I know what can occupy my time. I can bust my nuts going and doing another pin clash, this time with Godzilla... this challenge, I feel, is a lot better than the other ones'

  • ?

    design_concern: Scooby-Doo upper playfield creates stalling problem: ball stays up too long once goals completed. Shot returns are slow, and lack of incentive to drain creates passive gameplay. Affects tournament strategy and replayability.

    high · Carl: 'You're up top too often, or we're up there too long... the reason you want to get back down is you've completed everything up'; discusses Jungle Lord and Grand Lizard as similar problems

    • 2:39
    So Marty has no idea what I'm about to do. And you're going to play along too at home listening because we're not going to put it in the show notes. You'll just have to listen and find out. Okay. I have a guest coming on the program. So you don't even have questions prepared. I have nothing. You don't know if you like this person. You don't know if you've already killed them. Well, I pretty much do know whether I like them. I'm going to give you five guesses. I'll answer only yes or no, and you can narrow it down. Vague questions. Is it a male, a female? Is it someone in the business? Things like that. I'll let you have five questions. You can play along at home. I might even give you a bonus question if I feel generous. I might not. Go ahead. Before we bring the guest on. They're not even online now. Marty has no idea who it is. I mean, the normal question that you would ask in these situations is, is it male or female? But we know this is such a male-dominated industry, so chances are it's going to be male. So I would do that question later. Are they Australian? They are not. They're from the good side.
    3:41
    England. Who are you thinking? Ryan C.? Well, yes and no. I'm also just thinking about the time zone and trying to work out. Oh, smart, smart. Yeah, it's 11 p.m. your time. It's 3 p.m. my time. Well, 20 and a half time. Sure. Sorry, I'm trying to work out where they would be located. By the way, you're not slowing your words, are you, a little bit? Like, three o'clock in the afternoon on a Sunday?
    4:08
    You know the answer to that already, you fuck. It is 3.20. I've been drinking since 10.30. Will you edit the burps? I don't know. No. It depends on, you know, how time... Okay. Is it Keith Elwin? It is not Keith Elwin. That was a stupid guess. That was like a one in a thousand. First of all, we don't have the rights to. That's a loser kid thing. Sure. No, the only reason why I was thinking of that is that he was on my mind this week thinking, ah, we haven't had him on our show for a while. So there you go. Have I killed this person before? The answer is no. But that doesn't mean they were in the category of. That's probably why I should have asked whether they were in that category. That would have narrowed it down. Whatever. I mean this whole question and answer thing assumes that I give a fuck right oh wow wait till they wait till they listen to this program in here I don't give a fuck go ahead yeah if they've okay there are people listening that might give a fuck no if they if they've listened to this show already by now they would know I don't give a fuck so if therefore if that's a shock to them it means they've not listened to this show therefore I definitely don't give a fuck by the way we've got not only this little puzzle and and little mystery to solve. We've actually got some big, big news we'll do at the end of the show that we haven't told anybody.
    5:29
    We'll save that later. Yeah, okay. What do they call that? Tickling your ass with a feather? Is that what the term is?
    5:36
    Something like that. I don't know. It's a radio term. I've never heard anyone say it. I just might have made it up. Anyway.
    5:42
    You might just be doing that right now. How much longer can I stall? Okay, you get three more questions.
    5:49
    Okay. Are they... Oh, my God. I don't care. Who is it? Why don't you save that opening line for when I bring them on? You don't... Come on. People are guessing at home. They've narrowed it down. It's not Heath. But why would you bring a guest on without telling me? Because it's fucking... Again, it's a dick move, and it's a great ball-busting thing. You've got to think on the fly when you're half-pissed. This is going to be great.
    6:19
    You might not even know them. Okay. do i know them yes there you go that answers that question two left um i'm telling you people are at home right now are thinking they're they're going through and okay um have we had them on our show before yes a returning guest so i've only got one question left yep oh look i'm gonna say Is it Ed Robertson?
    6:50
    Well, let's find out. Oh, God. Here we go. I'm going to get my Skype window open to find out who it is as soon as they join. Let me add them.
    7:02
    You're going to love it. This is fucking great. Come on. This is fun. Oh, my God. I can't believe you're doing this to me. This is worse than Who Will Marty Kill. You know what? It is, but it's fucking great. Hold on. How do I add it? Oh, here we go. Do-do-do-do-do-do.
    7:18
    Let's find out who this mystery guest is. Can I have one more guess who it is? Well, you're going to know in a second. Well, I know now. Oh, they haven't joined us yet. But I know now. Yeah. Because they've joined us right now. Hello? And what I know is, listener, this is one of my favorite people in the world ever. That I can tell you. So it was a bit of a dick move on my part, but it pays off. Carl! Are you there?
    7:55
    You're going to listen back and hear Marty say, I honestly don't give a fuck. That's you, Carl. Okay, okay. But I also just said, you're one of my favorite people in the world ever. And, okay, if anybody has ever listened to, you'd have to listen to every single head-to-head, but then also every single fun around. I have said so many times that you made my first US pinball experience the best. Oh, yes. And I will never forget that, ever. Thank you. Yes, yes. I've heard it every time. So, Jeff, you may try to throw me under the bus here, but facts don't lie. I fucking love Carl D'Angelo. That's fine. Fine. Well, it's nice to have Carl on. He's looking for things to do. The poor guy. I mean, he busts his butt along with Jim and Jay and Bob at InDisc, which you didn't go to, Marty. That's okay. I had fun. And then he's like, what am I going to do? I know what can occupy my time. I can bust my nuts going and doing another pin clash, this time with Godzilla. Carl, you're a madman. Yeah, yeah, that's the truth. Absolutely. I don't know what I'm thinking. Well, obviously, you don't know what you're thinking. But because you've done it now a number of times. I remember Jurassic Park, I kind of attempted and had to bow out.
    9:16
    Then was Iron Maiden the other one? No, Avengers. So obviously the pain that you experienced through it mustn't be that much. Like, obviously it is, but for you to be able to do it again, it obviously must be really rewarding for you. Yeah, I feel it is. It's really, for me, it's a couple days of pain. the day before production and the final stream event. That's a fun day. But apart from that, I enjoy getting more people on Twitch. That's really the goal of this thing is to try to expand the pinball viewership a bit, get some new streamers out there, and see what people can do. And this challenge, I feel, is a lot better than the other ones. It's a little more grindy for the streamers, but I think it's more enjoyable to watch, which is great. Carl needs to get more people watching Twitch because apparently there weren't enough watching in-disc when there was over a million views and 15,000 people at one time. So, Carl, you're a saint. Thanks, Joe. Can we just elaborate on that a little bit further, if you don't mind me? You wouldn't have heard beforehand, I'm really drunk at the moment, Carl, so you're going to have to excuse me for that. But I'm not that drunk enough to remember the last in-disc and the broadcast of it. And it really was, I think, the bullseye as far as it goes to making pinball now palatable to the general public. My question for you really is, is that something that you had intended on doing this last in-disc? Or did you just say, okay, I'm now going to just go the next level up? What was in your mind to increase the quality of the stream for Indisc? I mean, it's less for the general public. Indisc, the Indisc stream, it's more for the pinball people. Because that format, it's such a long format that you're not going to get a random person coming in and watching the stream for very long. Although I have to admit, looking at the analytics, that some people actually did stick around when we were on the front page, which was absolutely awesome. And I got a shout out to Pluto at Twitch. He's the one that helped us get on the front page. But I really think, and see, I go to pin class because that's the format. The heads up format is what I think is good viewership. It's the good formats to get people to watch that don't know pinball because it's quick matches. It's easy to understand. You show a little tutorial before the match. You watch the match, and you know exactly what they have to do. And it's short, two- to three-minute things, easy to pick up. Carl, you're one of the best players in the world, and you can win at almost any format you've done. But what you're describing with pin clash and the heads-up challenge that you can see, sometimes you see it with actual pins two in one location. You do it a lot at Ace Goge, I know, for a lot of the launch parties. We see it occasionally with the Stern heads-up challenge and also different events we've had it at in Chicago, kind of following the Stern Pro Circuit. But what you're doing is the same thing just on stream with two different people at two different locations. And you're talking about these challenges that last probably no more than five minutes at the most. It's a speed run, if you will. It is exciting. It is easy to understand for really people watching for the first time because of the explanations. But yet, we in pinball and the IFPA don't really endorse it as much as some of these other long tournaments, the pump and dumps and the long grinding tournaments. Why? Well, Josh has always said that the length of play gives more value to a tournament. And the heads-up format is essentially a one ball. Because you can finish your goal in one ball, it's been regulated to one ball for TGP. So when we run the Heads Up Tournament, when Shane and I run them at Ace Kogi, we have a full 10 rounds of match play beforehand to qualify people, and then the finals are 16 players, double elimination. But it's not worth anything at that point for TGP.
    13:26
    Should it change? I don't know. What do you think? Well, it's going to be worth less now because the maximum TGP you can get in a lot of these events are now 50, where it used to be 25, so it's doubled. and if these aren't adding to that, that's a bigger gap from 25 than it is to the now 50. So I think it would be great for pinball if we could have more of these. The reason we don't see more of them is, why bother? It's not worth anything. So if they make it worth more, would we see more of these things? It's pretty exciting. It might draw more people into pinball. I agree with you, but also in Carl's world, sorry, I'm going to speak on your behalf, Carl. You've also got Indisc in the open, which has how many people were in the open last time? It's close to 300. Yeah, right? So that's a big tournament, and it's got massive TGP as well. So you've got that to put your energy in. These are good for spectators, but it's not necessarily a big tournament. It's not like you can have 300 people in it, or maybe you could. I don't know. I don't think there are 300 streamers there if you're talking about Pin Clash. No. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like with Pink Clash, but also the heads up format itself, because obviously, you know, Stern does its version of it as well. You can't have 300 people doing it, could you? It would take time. I mean, you could have a qualification to get in to the to the final heads up matches. That's essentially what we do on the launch parties, because otherwise, yeah, it's a it would have to be a multi-day scheduling nightmare to get that many people into this kind of an event. Yeah, that's what I think. The end result is Pin Clash is spectacular, and you're going to see some of the world's best players on there, and showing you things on Godzilla you have maybe never seen or didn't think were possible. And Carl, if you've listened to this program, and I know you do, there's a guy on the other end of this microphone. It's not you, it's not me. I'm not going to mention any names. They may or may not be the greatest fans of Godzilla. I think Pinclash will maybe change that person's opinion. We'll see, right? Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I mean, some people like Halloween. Whoa, snap, snap. Including my Indusco director, right? Jim Belsito's favorite themed game. I'm surprised it wasn't in Indus this year. Wow, okay. I just want to go back and I want to say that I think you're right in that the pin clash format naturally is more watchable to the end user, right? It just is easy objectives, only goes to five minutes, head-to-head format. You can pick who you're rooting for and, you know, follow their progress throughout. So I think it's really digestible, the format in itself. I just wanted to go back to Indies because having watched a lot of these tournaments and I've been at tournaments and I've seen the viewing, Indisc itself, you're right, is not necessarily the most watchable format. But yet somehow this time it was more watchable. I'm just keen to know what you think was different this time that made it more watchable. Because again, we've talked about this on previous episodes. It wasn't just that people on the front page came to watch pinball. They stayed to watch pinball and that was quite the surprise. I mean I think it was a combination starting with the visual quality I think I've finally gotten to the spot that I'm pretty happy with how things look on stream a lot of it had to also do with Jeff's scheduling of all the commentators he did a spectacular job in setting up those teams absolutely spectacular thanks Carl and now I've got three other tournaments asking me to do it so fuck I mean great glad to help is what I meant to say sorry Yeah, that's a lot of it because without solid commentators all the time, the stream gets boring very quickly. Any dead air, anybody not talking about what's actually going on on stream, you know, stuff like that. But the quality of play of the players, the games, it was fun, fun, fun, good pacing. And, you know, even Carhop aside, it was still fun.
    17:42
    Yeah, it all kind of lined up. I just wanted to blow smoke up your ass and also award winning presenter as well award winning yes three times over it's not surprising it took some people maybe a little while to realize okay there's a lot of effort in there there's a lot of hard work and it's certainly paid off and we see it on just even IE pinball generic streams and also Marty mentioned watched a little bit earlier this week you were at Ace Goge playing Scooby-Doo. We want to know first thoughts of that because it sounded great. It looked fun. I got to say, it's a lot, lot better than Halloween, and I'm really happy to see Spooky do this. Yeah, it's definitely a step up from their previous release.
    18:30
    It's early days on the game. You know, the code, I went through the entire code base that they have right now. It shoots well. The upper is a little slow to me. You know, it's hard. I don't want to be rough on the game because it's early. You know what I mean? But it shoots well. It looks great. It sounds good. It just needs to work on the code. I would say, from what I watched, I think the lower part of the play field shoots really well.
    18:57
    I'm not so sure about the upper play field. I felt the ball stayed there too long. Okay, can I jump in there? I love that upper left flipper. I like the way that's got that little boomerang thing. I would just remove the center post. But then you're going to be shooting up the middle all the time to get back up there. So it's a matter of do you want people to come down to the lower and shoot back up top over and over, or would you rather just keep them up top to finish their goal and then let them drain out at the top? They would probably keep it up there if they could. I only drained because I knew the mode I was in. I had done all the tasks up top. Anything I needed to finish was done.
    19:36
    And speaking of the bookcase, one thing, the geometry on the rightmost shot, there's like the upper plate for that is like basically three horseshoes on the right hand side right you've got the left one that goes the two of them go down the wire firms and the other one kind of loops back around but the one on the far right it's really not possible to hit it easily without using the upper part of the bookcase to sling it across but i found on this one it didn't have enough force to really push it all the way through because it's relying on like the um the return spring on the flipper mechanism to give it the power to push over. I hear we're up top too often, or we're up there too long, I should say, and the reason you want to get back down is you've completed everything up. Is there a way to, I don't know, I guess you can't really kill the flippers up top once you've completed what you need to do up top, but that is a big upper playfield problem for many games, right? You know, you play something like Jungle Lord, you just stay up top. You play something like Grand Lizard. All you're doing is staying up top, and it gets a little boring after a while. So I didn't exploit it in this game because you can play that Captain Cutler, multi-ball, over and over again up top. You can just go back up there and play it at any time. So really, if I'm playing this in a tournament with the current code, I'm just going to start that multi-ball, play it out, and then just shoot back up top and start that multi-ball again, over and over and over. and it's the safety of that upper play field. Boy, coders love hearing that. I'm just going to do this over and over again, ignore everything else. It's just the worst thing to hear. In my stream, there's a comment from Spooky Luke saying, maybe you should drain Carl. Yikes. Hey, Marty, what do you hear from Fathom 2.0 when it comes to code? Because you also have created some code. What do you hear other than Twippy saying, oh, I didn't know it was out this year? Okay, I'll tell you the two main things that I get. they are compliments but I assure you these are the two things that I hear the most first one is fuck it's hard second one it has the one more go effect people just want to keep playing it that's good I'm happy with that I'm trying to take people's feedback on as far as the difficulty goes it's one of those ones where I have played it a lot so i know the geometry i know how it plays really well so i can do a lot of things doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else can so i've just gotta be mindful of that but i've got i've put a lot of well my i say me greg has put a lot of variables in the code so people can make many different elements in the game easier or harder well we heard carl say with scooby-doo and again we're talking early code he pretty much completed everything that was in there right now it brings me to another point as we have seen recent games james bond has come out with not full code we now see foo fighters we are about to see galactic tank force by the time this airs we will have seen godfather and the pattern i'm noticing with newer games is they are being made easier because it provides a lot of satisfaction for the home use owner and and that's great they want to they want to feel good. They don't want to have a plunge, drain, and then it's done. Like, oh boy, I can't do anything. You know, I first, first really, really noticed it with Elvira, House of Horrors, just how easy I found all of the shots. That doesn't make it a bad game. It's a fun game. It's great call. It's good code, blah, blah, blah, but a real easy shooter. And sometimes if it's not the play field, it's the code that makes it easier. Maybe, you know, from what I saw, Foo Fighters look like there's a lot of multi-balls and that's fine. You know, it's again, that satisfaction. You talked about on Godzilla, Marty, that that's a game that rewards you for missing in a way. You're aiming for the building. Oh, I missed, but I got Tesla. There's things you can do. It just requires better skill with the flippers, but there's still lots of opportunities to keep going on that game. Is that the pattern we're seeing now? I know we're talking to Carl who can complete any game, but do you find games are getting a lot easier? It's a good question, really. It's got to be more on the physical side rather than the software side, I would say, if you're looking at that aspect. Maybe are they shipping easier? Are they shipping with posts lower and stuff like that? Or is it just the designs are less dangerous in general? Because people do like safe returns. They like ramps that feed back to your flippers. They don like balls out of control So yeah thinking about it in general they definitely being made easier on the design side also aren they Let me follow up on that So look at Godzilla. The easiest shot on that game might be the building. You can hit it from both flippers. It's not an easy shot, but it's certainly easier than either of the ramps, certainly the upper flipper loop, even the scoop. Now look at something new we just saw, Foo Fighters, which, by the way, Jack Danger and Tanya and Ray Day, congratulations. The game looks beautiful. I'm excited. I can hardly wait to play the game. But I saw the play field. I'm like, okay, there's some neat, fun things there. But the one thing that jumped out at me, and don't take this as a negative or a criticism, it's just I noticed it, was I'm going to hit the shit out of that lower left ramp over and over and over again because I can backhand it. whereas Godzilla, there's not a typical Steve Ritchie, ACDC backhand jam ramp, so to speak. But on Foo Fighters, looks like I could get that one probably quite a bit. So where did this change? Was it with Turtles? Because Turtles was the last really difficult Sturm game, right, I'd say? Yeah, that's a hard one, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What was right after Turtles? What was the next game after that? Was it Mando? Could have been Mando. And Mando has a center shot that is makeable on both sides. You can backhand the lower right ramp. It's probably not as easier. Or maybe it is easier than going across the play field. But that's a satisfying game. If you're a novice, you're going to have a lot of fun on that game, probably more so than Turtles, I would say, because there are maybe easier shots. I think it comes back to both the geometry and the code, because the code is really telling you where you need to shoot. And it can tell you to shoot something that's difficult or to shoot something that's easy. easy and i think mandalorian has got i would say it's a um a medium level difficulty layout mainly because a lot of the posts a lot of the shots are actually quite close to the flipper so if you miss them you know it's death and it's reaction but they make the shots that you need to get the easiest shots and i think that's the same with with godzilla obviously is that the the main shots that you need to go for are the easier shots turtles was interesting because turtles was just so fast i don't know what you could do in code to make that easier because every shot just comes back to the flippers so quickly right and so borg really went the other way in rush i feel because i feel rush is a pretty easy game wow really you and i had this conversation you think it's easier than godzilla and i think it's the other way around yeah yeah yeah we did have that conversation I think Rush punishes you for misses more so. Well, I guess Godzilla can too. Godzilla punishes you for bad flipper decisions in the sense of you shouldn't probably be dead bouncing in Godzilla because of the way the flippers are angled. In Rush, you know, if you're trying to go through the pops and miss, or if you're trying to hit some of those three bottom drop targets, good chance you might find the right out lane. And why are you shooting the bottom three drop targets most of the time? Because you need the instruments. Do you? Well, you're talking about for scoring. I'm talking about for completing everything. If you want to get to wizard mode and stuff, yeah. Usually I don't go for them unless I'm trying to go wizard mode and get everything going. Yeah, those are dangerous shots, and that's kind of what the best players do. They avoid the dangerous shots. So, you know, the center time machine is easy on both flippers for sure. The scoop probably is a dangerous shot from the right flipper, maybe a little easier on the left. you should be able to maybe backhand the spinner up top uh you can only hit the ramp with one flipper i think and uh you know you've got a few you've got a few mistakes you can make on the upper flipper if you're you've got the upper loop you've got the upper ramp and you've got the side scoop so as long as you're one of those three you're pretty good yeah and then the the lower right flip we have to remember it's a catch-all because of the the post being so far out the geometry down there is so different from any any other game so then going back to i guess what both of you are saying and we've we've sort of alluded to it in the last couple of episodes do you think that they are intentionally making games easier for players and is that a probably the bigger question is that actually a good strategy because again what i've the feedback from fathom and obviously we're not in the same league as as term we don't make the same amount of units but it's people saying it's tough but i just want to keep playing and that was my issue that i had with godzilla and i've said on record that i don't think it's a bad game my problem is i played one game for an hour and then when i've seen enough i don't feel i need to play it again because i don't want to play it again for another hour so are they intentionally making games easier and is it just a stern thing or is it an every manufacturer thing girl i'm thinking here you stumped girl well done well well i i still think that they're making wizard modes just as difficult to get to i don't think that's really the issue i think it's now being able to feel like you're blowing up the game I think that is now a lot more accessible and a lot closer to the start button yeah I agree with that for sure I'm trying to think of the other manufacturers besides Stern to really get a sense of the general trend here so I'm saying you know JJP with Toy Story that's definitely an easier player although you can set that game up very difficult if you do but I'm talking like how the games ship from the factory. That's kind of my default here. So it's Spooky with Scooby. Scooby ships very, very easy, in my opinion. Toy Story's easy. What else has come out recently? Well, here's what I'm thinking, and I could be way off. It's just a thought, and not a lot of time put into this, but just thinking really quickly is if home users are the main market now, and they still have to be. They have to be. I don't care what anyone says. They don't care about how hard they are because operators didn't want you playing a game for an hour, whereas home users are putting in a lot more money and want to have some satisfaction. They don't care about games turning over as much, you know, so maybe that's why they're easier. Maybe. It could be. Market shifted, yeah. So a related but not related question, and this is for you, Carl. Now that we've got a good player on the podcast, it's good to have.
    31:21
    And a good competitive player as well. It's good to have on the show. My question for you, because obviously I'm having a go at you, Jeff. But one of the things that I've said, and I know I'm not the only person that said this, which talks about how a tournament player approaches the game versus a casual player. It's points versus story or code, whatever you want to do. Do you have the ability to see both sides? Absolutely.
    31:52
    Absolutely. I've watched your stream, so I know that that's the case, right? It's probably why you've spent so much time playing Big Buck Hunter, because you could actually spend the time going through the code as opposed to just doing points, right? Right, right. So my follow-up question to you is, in thinking of recent games, what do you think is a really good tournament game in let's say the last couple of years versus what's the best all round game? I think I know his answer. You do? What do you think my answer is? You can answer it for me then.
    32:28
    Jurassic Park. That is an excellent answer. But Jurassic and Nuts can still play long also. But it is a very well balanced game. One of the things I think makes it that is it's got a lack of playful multiplier So there's no monstrous 10x or 30x shot that's going to destroy scoring for everybody else. This may surprise you, but I think Toy Story is actually a solid balance there. Okay. Because it can be set up difficult enough for a tournament, but not frustrating. What would you do to make it different for a tournament? Would you, you know, we hear about, and you can change all these settings. You can change settings on flipper strength. You can change slings. For most competitions, if you're ever wondering why this game might be playing so tough, it's not always about post rubbers or tight tilts. Tight slings are the key to tournament play because you get a little faster turnover. Exactly. Yeah, it's all physical aspects. Not all physical aspects, but yeah, slings are important. Turning off left out lane saves, pulling the posts, moving the posts. But then you've got to mess with the software side too. You have to, right? I'd like to see Toy Story a little more. I've only played it in showrooms. I haven't played it on location. I haven't played it at someone's home yet. But it looked great. A nice kind of swan song for Mr. Lawler after his great career. And I need more time on it. I think it's a great theme. And I would not be surprised to see it at a big tournament like an Indisc with those modifications. It's definitely possible. I don't have mine. I sold mine pretty quickly, but Jim has one. So at some point, if it stops earning quite as much on location, that will become a possibility. So I only got to play it a couple of times at Brisbane Masters, and I had a similar feeling that I had with Godzilla in that everything I shot gave me something. It didn't necessarily give me all the fanfare that Godzilla gives me, but I didn't feel like I was missing anything. there was always something on the table to be playing for. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, that's a fair assessment. There's always something to do in the game. Yeah, which then comes back to that really probably is the strategy of people manufacturers these days is to be making players feel like they're always doing something positive. And even when I talked about Godzilla, I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was a master class in providing feedback to players. And that's why so many people love Godzilla. And that's why it's probably still number one. I haven't looked at Pinsai for a while. But I think it's number one because everybody loves that game because they will go away finishing that game feeling like they've achieved something. And there's nothing wrong with that. I just sort of looked at that and went, huh, I kind of get the formula. And so I'm not buying into the formula, but I think it's a wise move, is what I'm saying, for manufacturers to be doing that. Yeah, absolutely. You want to reward players at every moment that you can. So, Carl, I know I want to thank you for coming on, and I also want to get your thoughts on what you've seen so far with Foo Fighters. I know, you know, for those that don't know, am I allowed to even say this? We'll cut it out if not. But, you know, a lot of those great tutorial videos you see on Stern Machines, they're done by Carl D'Angelo. Yep, yep. The game looks great, really. So you're probably working on the tutorial video for Foo Fighters. But, yeah, I mean, it's a great theme. It looks like it's going to be fun. I like the different Saturday morning cartoon angle of it as opposed to just another band. and I'm sure it'll be a great earner. What it looks like to me is a very high-energy game. Between the music and the animations, it just seems like it's going to constantly be pushing you, if that makes any sense. It's always active. And the flow on the game, the shots, they really flow well. I agree with you. I – it's really funny how the sentiment of the community from before it was announced, like within – up to the minute before it was announced to after is complete opposites. Yes. Everyone was like, oh, welcome. As soon as people saw it, everyone went, oh, holy crap. That's pretty amazing. One thing that I've said, and I can't remember what we were talking about. It might have been Elton John when we were talking about the possibility of an Elton John pin. I said, that's fine. Give me as many band pins as you like. But what I'm sick of is the premise of it being the concert. You know, that's just a real easy one. I think for Foo Fighters, for them to actually now have this whole alien thing and be a story, for me fucking chef's kiss i am so pleased that that's the angle i went down yeah i don't think they could have picked a better way to do that absolutely agreed it's really cool like animation school this is this reminds me of the moment the aerosmith moment where everyone was just like are you kidding me aerosmith dad band a bit past their time and i don't know whether whether you agree or not but i think the way that they styled that made aerosmith cool again or maybe some people will think they were always cool i think that's what they've kind of done not not exactly the same but with foo fighters they've just gone well here's a band they they've got good songs i actually i've seen them live they're fantastic but they've just gone a bit of an angle with them that makes just so much more interesting yeah i agree i agree completely and it's it's uh flipping to another game, it's why I have very little interest in Queen, unfortunately. It just doesn't seem like it has any life to it. Well, that's funny because right now, joining us from Pinball Brothers, let's say hi to... Who are we saying hello to, Jeff? Who are the people that you know from Pinball Brothers?
    38:47
    Henrik? Sven? I don't know. You're a dick because it's coming up on Pinball Profile. i and and by the way carl i think you've played queen because i know i did at expo when you were there yeah yeah i thought it was pretty good i was i was pleasantly surprised by that game and yes it is you know build build a concert stuff it's it's not something creative like fighting aliens i get all that but queen and carl fuck you and i have seen queen in concert together no i love queen come on you know what they are the concert experience band if anybody is allowed to do it it is queen like listen i'm obviously the biggest led zeppelin fan ever they i've i won't say who told me this but they were trying to put a bunch of humorous things in there and zeppelin's like no no no no so it wasn't from the lack of creativity by the stern people they certainly have great creativity it was the ip holder saying no no no just do this and they're I'm like, fuck, I guess our hands are tied. Did you see Queen with Freddie Mercury? No, I wish I did. Did you? Oh, sorry. Okay, sorry. No. You did, didn't you? Yes. My very first concert experience I ever had was Queen doing the works tour with Freddie Mercury. And, you know, I mean, I think I was, what, 15, maybe 16. And I just could not believe what I was seeing. It was just everything. And it's really bad, though, that if that's my first concert experience, nothing ever has been able to match it, ever. Like Kraftwerk or – No, no, Kraftwerk, you know, I've seen them twice, and they were – one of them was in 3D, right? It was 3D. It was fantastic. It's not fucking Freddie Mercury, you know what I mean? No, it's not. It's just not. So there you go. I'm just saying that just to shove it in your faces. Carl and I enjoyed watching Queen with Adam Lambert. It was a great show. It was right before the last Pinberg, too. So it was a nice way to kick off that week. Yeah, that was great. Look, I have also seen Queen with Adam Lambert, and it is also fantastic. So there you go. Yeah, you weren't invited. It was just Carl and me. And you were even at that Pinberg, too. We're like, no, let's not tell. Really? No. Yeah? No, I thought it was the one after, wasn't it?
    41:14
    Were you at the last Pinberg? I don't know. I remember being asked to go to that Queen concert, and I said no. Not by us. We said no way. No, obviously. Three's a crowd. Fuck Marty. Fifteen's a crowd. We can't possibly have one more.
    41:32
    Carl, I guess I'll be talking to you soon with Pin Clash. Thanks for including me, and I look forward to talking to the top 24. For those that want to try to get in the top 24, where do they go? what do they do with their Godzilla machine and streaming units? Well, thank you, Jeff, for the help. I'm really looking forward to that. Pingclassetourney.com. Everything can be found there. There's a link to the Discord. The Discord is the primary source of information. That's where scores are submitted, and if people have questions, they can ask there. Yeah, if you want to stream pinball, or if you're a streamer and you want to play, you've got a Godzilla, sign up.
    42:11
    Hmm. I'm a streamer And I also happen to have a Godzilla Hmm Interesting How did you get a Godzilla? We talked about this No we didn't How do you think I managed to have my whole review on I've got Ryan's Godzilla Oh that's right Well it's a loner I don't know you still have it I've played it three times Don't tell Ryan that Well I'm sure he's listening right now and it will be handed back with a total of three plays on it. I have one. I just can't stream.
    42:49
    But I'll say this about Pinclash. It's fun to try it, you know, to see what your challenges are. First of all, the one ball challenge to get you qualified, but also the other tiers and other things. Cool. I mean, there's a lot of variety. Can you go through? This is what I'm keen to know. What is it that you've – what was it? Jurassic Park was the oh god it's been so long since I've played that game it was the jeep one where you had to escape nooblar that was the qualification fuck that was good obviously until some people started putting up ridiculous times this one's way better there was a time exploit so people learned how to get the timer paused that's what frustrated me thanks Esha if I knew that in advance that challenge would have run off of a real-time clock, so you couldn't use the in-game clock. But that's such a nightmare to do, though. But this one's a single-ball Tokyo Carnage bonus. So you have to set your game to one ball, no extra balls, and then it's the highest Carnage bonus you get when you leave Tokyo. So give us a tip. What's the best way to do it? Obviously, you don't want to cash out right away. You want to kill one. Which monster should get you the biggest points? The monster doesn't really matter. It really doesn't. It's the multi-ball. It's everything else? You need a good bridge score. That seems to be the, because that has the highest, we're getting into details here, the highest annihilation bonus percentage available. So if you have a high bridge, your annihilation bonuses, which is after you play the bridge multi-ball, you can shoot 50 spin, spinach, or 50 switches, excuse me, that will light the bridge shot for an annihilation bonus. and that so it's a percentage of your total multi-ball score that's what you get every time you hit that and that's what builds into your carnage bonus so when you're in multi-ball you better be have rodan going right so you need rodan and you want anguirus and you actually want multiple anguirises if you can so you want to light your add a ball before you start it and then have your allies kind of ready ready to go start your multiball wait till your supers are ready or at some point in the multiball start your 2x or hold off until you use your add a ball and then light another add a ball so you can extend it even further that's really where the high scores seem to be coming from there's so much on that game the godzilla power-ups i watched your streams to figure out which are the best ones and when i was talking to keith he's like it doesn't really matter it depends you know there's no one path but you like the three second destruction jackpot extra chance in case you miss it and and your destruction jackpots were huge i'm like okay that's a good strat yeah yeah because i you miss that shot so often that helps out i feel that's better than the other option i think the other one is uh 20 seconds added to tier two battles which is great too if you want to blow up a tier two battle but long term i feel the the three seconds helps more did you feel that this is was how it was going to play out that people were just going to try and find different ways or was there a way that you thought people would get their points and that's what they're doing no this is about what it was it was either going to be tanks or bridge it was going to see it was a matter of what were people going to focus in on and it's really leaned towards bridge unfortunately because i like i like the tanks more i have more fun it's exciting to to have this godzilla talk as three new games were released this week and we're talking about one that's come out from a designer who can't get a game out until 2025. It's still number one. I'm just kidding. You know how much I love it. It's the game of the year.
    46:32
    It's what's great about pinball. I'm excited for what's new, and we're going to talk a little bit about that. But we will say goodbye to our good friend Carl D'Angelo. I want to thank you for putting up with Marty's kind of scrambling to come up with questions. I mean I did the research Marty had no he just wings it yeah I had no idea he was coming on so thanks for the research time yeah appreciate it thank you anyway always be ready will you be going to TPF is the question I will be I should be there oh well listen later on the program listen later Carl oh yeah alright I'll tune in okay until then we will say so long alright thank you Jeff Thank you, Marty. Before you go, you are going to Texas People's Festival, which is great. If I was to go to TPF or if Jeff was to go, Jeff and I have had a discussion and your name has been brought up, right? It better not be about Whataburger. You shut your mouth, Carl. Oh, I've not had Whataburger. Anyway. You will. It's to do with Texas barbecue, right? Because I've said on the show that I wanted to go back to Hard Eight. Because I've only been there. Shut up. I've been there and it was fantastic. And Jeff said to me, were the exact words of what he actually said to me. What he actually said was, no, you don't want to go to Hard Eight. Hard Eight is pedestrian. You need to go to this other place called Hutchins. and I'll tell you who said that Hutchins is the best. Carl D'Angelo said that Hutchins is the best. So your name has been put out. I just want you to be able to defend yourself. Do you think that Hutchins is the best? Yeah, that's my choice. The first time I went to Texas, I went to Heart 8, and I was disappointed, and then I found Hutchins the day after, and I go there every time. It's really the reason I want to go to Texas, just to have more Hutchins. And Whataburger. We have kind of American barbecue places in Australia, but really they Australian American barbecue right So I went to heart A and I was really really pleased with the quality so you you were disappointed with hard eight and also what jeff jeff said was is that hard eight is like mcdonald's like it's just a franchise it's a chain of course it's going to be good for you because you're eating fucking koala bear and kangaroo every other meal no he he's okay this is bullshit, right? So here's the deal. The deal is this. In Australia, we have access to the best meat in the world, right? That's what we're known for. We do fucking cattle, lamb, other meats, kangaroo, kangaroo, right? So you can get the best quality meat in Australia. The problem with that is everyone's sort of like, oh, well, if you've got the best quality meat, don't mess with it. Don't season it. Don't marinate it. Just preserve the brilliance. And I'm like, hang on. That's not the case. When you go to an American barbecue, they have seasoned it. They have marinated it. They've slow cooked it with all these different, you know, the hickory fucking wood or whatever. 24-hour smoking the damn things. Yeah, to add flavor to it. So what I'm shitty about is the fact that Australians haven't worked out. if you can do the American technique and add Australian meat to it, you have got the recipe for the best meat in the world. So I guess what I'm coming back to is I have a good standard of meat in Australia, but not when it comes to that slow-cooked meat. And so heartache was the only experience I've had of it. I was blown away. And you're telling me, Carl D'Angelo, that Hutchins is even better. What do I say? That's my preference by far, by far. The burnt end specifically at Hutchins. Good call. Oh, my God. And they have something called a Texas Twinkie also, which is really good. What's that? It's a jalapeno stuffed brisket, I believe. So here's the thing. TPF is coming up at the end of the month, and we're only there three, maybe four days. I will hit Hutchins at least twice with the most expandable belt possible.
    51:05
    So your standard belt then? I'm just letting you know right now, fly is definitely down that weekend. I need all the room I can get.
    51:13
    Some massive crop dusting the day after for sure. Burning ring of fire. The flight home. We've run out of gas. Don't worry. I'm here. I got you.
    51:24
    Okay, so all I'm saying is if I go to Hutchins and it's shit house, it's on you, Carl D'Angelo. That's fine. Oh, okay. You're backing yourself on that. Yeah, yeah. I'm all good with that. Although my brother now lives in Texas and he does not like Hutchins, but I don't think he has any taste buds.
    51:45
    Let's bring him online now. Here he is. He's after the Kimmel Brothers. I got a question, Jeff, because of Whataburger. Fuck. You love In-N-Out Burger. I love Whataburger. Whataburger is no frills and just a great quality burger. I'm not talking about the fries. I'm not talking about the shakes. The burger is fucking unreal. The shit you can put on there, spectacular.
    52:07
    I've won so many people over that. The In-N-Out Burger, I'll give you your stupid shakes. They're fine. But come on, man. Carl, the burger, if we're just talking burger. I tried it twice. You'll have to get me again. You liked it. No, it was fine. It was like a fast food mediocre burger. Ray Day was with us. I think Steve Bowden. I remember. I remember that trip.
    52:31
    Yeah, Ray Day was raving over the thing, and I'm in mind going, are you eating a different burger? Yeah.
    52:39
    I loved In-N-Out Burger the first time I had it when I went to San Francisco. I came back when I went to TPF, had it there, and went, huh. It's fun. It's a fast food burger. It's fun. It's Carl's fast food burger. Yeah, five guys. Five guys, right? And I'm talking about burgers as well. Carl, you lost a lot of weight. You're in great shape. I'm still fucking chubby, so always go with the chubby guy for the best food. The video's not on right now, so you don't really know.
    53:11
    I watch the stream. You look good in that pinball profile shirt. Yeah. Thanks, buddy. Is there a Whataburger near TPF? Yes Are we there? Yes Okay, alright So all I'm hearing is Whataburger I've not had And Hutchins, alright? Okay, and then we'll come back and I'll tell you that you both suck Okay See you Carl Thanks Carl Alright, take care So Marty It's been a while since we've said this What have you learned? I'm going to tell you right now I have not learned anything And what I'm saying by that is If my lesson today was to learn Whether Carl is the best person in the world I've not learned anything Because I already knew that He is fucking awesome Carl is just I don't know There's something about Carl That just I don't know Makes me feel reassured Like a big Boner Like a big blanket that's giving you a big hug. It's just, he's just such a lovely person that nothing fazes him. Like, I don't know. He's just awesome, is what I'm saying. Like, it's funny when he was talking about one game and he said, you know, that may be a little bit rough. And he paused to say bit rough, and I'm thinking, it's easier to say that may be shit. But he doesn't say that. No, that's right. So what he does is he is somebody that is – he's mastered the art of positivity without sounding that he's always positive. You know what I mean? Like he just – if you really want to know what the truth is, speak to Carl D'Angelo. He will tell you the truth. There's no hyperbole. There's no ulterior motive. he will just tell you a fact is a fact there it is well i gotta question his judgment and it's not just about what a burger and in a out burger i i i do have to question his judgment because he is a positive guy and yet for some strange reason whether it's pin clash whether it's in disc he keeps asking me to help out i i oblige maybe i'm oh i'm certainly flattered but you know he's positive and i am when i need to be certainly pinball profiles all about positivity but you get the dick side of me here on final round maybe he hasn't listened yeah look i think what you've got to understand is and and i'm listener i'm sorry to have to tell you this but the pinball scene is not a big scene it's just not it's not like if you're talking about you know you're going to tpf and how many people you think will go through tpf thousands and thousands right how many people would go through a comic-con more like squillions more right so we're not that big the point i'm trying to make is we should all dress up as cosplay now what i'm saying is jeff You are the best in the pinball industry without a doubt. Stop. Keep going. The absolute best there is. Please. Out of five fucking people, there's not a lot of fucking choice here. You know what I'm saying? Like there's not a big pool here to choose from. Jeff is the best because there's no one fucking else. Slow down there.
    56:49
    You know what the term for that is? big fish in a little pond that's right what i i have in recent episodes because i've listened to them again i have given jeff some compliments about the quality of his broadcasting so i kind of just felt like i needed to balance it somehow right now thank you all is all is good in the world okay let's talk a little bit more about foo fighters and and we've talked about scooby-doo thank good well done spooky well done and what i want to say well done for is the fact that boy, you know, you got all those games sold when now you've got three companies trying to get your money in. In Foo Fighters with Stern, you've got Godfather with JJP, and at the time of this recording we haven't seen it. We know it's coming out this week. And Galactic Tank Force with American Pinball, which I might have already seen and played. You've got call-outs in Galactic Tank Force, don't you? 100% I do not. Really? Yep, I do not. Huh. Nope, not me. And somebody asked me earlier, and I said, no, that's not me. And you're going to love who it is, actually. Okay. Great, great talent, I think. I'm sure they are. It just struck me as the kind of game that you would have been perfect for. So it surprises me that you're not involved in it. I can't give anything away right now. Hopefully, by the time this airs, you'll know more. Are you involved in any of the games that are coming out in March? No. Okay. Really? No, no. Okay.
    58:22
    We've heard voice talent, and I think we say the gold standard pretty much is Mark Silk, as far as known, right? He's been in... Whoever does the Iron... I can't remember his name. I wish I did. It's Jerry Thompson's go-to guy, the guy who did certainly Iron Maiden, but also did the Batman call-outs.
    58:40
    My... Oh, God. I can't believe I'm saying this. Fuck, you're drunk, man. You're drunk. My favorite call-out person is you. Bullshit, you liar. I haven't heard the Haggis phone ring yet. No, it is because I've heard all the voices that you can do. The point I'm trying to make is I cannot believe that you are not the go-to guy for call-outs in pinball. There you go. I've said it. You are lying through your fucking teeth. I actually mean it. Because also, guys, what you've got to understand is that you've heard what he has released officially as his – Some unofficially as his voices. I've heard all the other voices when we've just been having conversations. I still just don't understand why being somebody that is so well-known in the people community that people don't come to you to do voices. I just don't get it. And I genuinely mean it. And I am also drunk. So maybe it is the gin that means it. It doesn't matter. It's being said. I think that you should be doing so many more call outs. There you go.
    59:45
    I've done three. I've turned down two. I've told you that before. And we know one big one that never unfortunately saw the light and that would have been the one that would have showcased... Here's the thing.
    60:03
    Radio stuff. The radio stuff I do, very rarely do you hear this voice talking. You know, if it's... I did one for... I can't remember what the hell it was. A furniture thing the other day. And it's fine. It's generic. It's whatever. But most of the stuff I do is pretty wacky, pretty fun. And it's just that. It's fun. I enjoy getting to be something different. The best compliment you can get when you do something is when they do not believe it's your voice. That's fucking great, right? Yeah. That's the whole point. Legends of Valhalla. That's when I had to. I messaged you and I'm like, is that you? I'm not sure. And you said, yeah, it is. I'm like, I kind of thought it was, but my backhand compliment was, I thought it was too good to be.
    60:58
    But it was that good. It was that good. Anyway, whatever. Stop it. I've got to stop drinking. No, it's fun when you drink. Anyway, let's talk about the games. Foo Fighters.
    61:09
    Saw the stream. I actually only saw the LE stream where they had Zombie Yeti there. They had Tanya. They had Ray Day and, of course, Jack Danger. Kudos to all of you for a great-looking game. Dying to play it. Fuck, it looks like fun. I mean, you're right. People before came out, oh, no, not another band pin. Well, fuck. It's going to be a band pin. It's going to be a movie pin or it's going to be a TV pin. That's how shit works if you want IPs. yeah if you want anything outside of that buy them when they release them you know what's funny so so i actually i'm also a foo fighters fan and uh i really like the music i like they have a great sense of humor i love love love love humor in pinball it's one of my favorite things if you think of all the great games medieval madness attack from mars great great humor in games and this looks like it's got oodles of that so i i'm excited for that i i think it's got foo fighters dna all over it like i i don't know and maybe jack danger or someone will come out and tell us that it's different but it's almost like they're like well we're thinking about doing this and foo fighters are like fuck yeah do what you want like fucking go crazy and like yeah we're thinking about you're attacking aliens yeah of course you are you know what i mean like i just feel they probably just had somebody that's like yeah this is all uncharted territory go fucking nuts yeah yeah yep yep yep let's talk about jack danger well i remember seeing a lot of this play field or at least certain aspects of it that outlane post save when he was creating his home brew i remember watching him with ed owens who was a homebrew creator of ghost in the shell a Wisconsin guy, great guy, who you'd see always at Expo. And I remember watching them kind of go through things. And then all of a sudden you didn't see anything more of that. So the resume was that game probably, and obviously his tight connections with Stern. Glad he got the full-time gig. And fuck it.
    63:13
    I mean, I remember Jack telling me a while back that Gomez gave him a lot of tips and stuff and things that he might have had to reconfigure. I think even it was on Deadflip too where he had to basically reconfigure the whitewood because he had things in the wrong spot or too close together and had to kind of not start from scratch but do another whitewood that had those accurate measurements. And, I mean, I'm excited. I'm excited for the guy. And I've told you, I've played Jurassic Park The Pin. I fucking love playing that game. It's a good game. I wish I had played it. Yeah. What I felt was looking at, obviously I've not played Jurassic Park The Pin. What I looked at it and I went, you know what? That is a great pin. There's not necessarily anything too crazy about it, but what you've done is great. Ramps in the right location. Everything's in the right location. Well done. This one, this one's interesting. And it's funny you should say that about George Gomez because it's, what I like about it is that it's unique. it feels like you've now got a new designer with a new design methodology on saying that i am i was and i'd had this conversation so if anyone wants to fact check me you can i had said i felt that there was a lot of george gomez influence in the game and there you go you've backed it up i yeah i have no idea how much influence just maybe some suggestions and helping a young designer. I will say this about Jack. He's not a seasoned veteran yet. Oh, no, you've ruined my joke. Oh, my God. It was coming. It was coming. It's like, well, now he's a seasoned veteran. He's produced one game. He's now a seasoned veteran, according to Jeff Teolas. No, no. He's no Keith Elwin yet. It was two games. Two games he's released. Yeah, it looks good. We have not seen Godfather, so by the time this airs, it was supposed to come out on March the 7th super excited love Eric as a designer in fact earlier tonight is the 5th of March at the time of this recording I watched the Godfather movie with my son had nothing to do with the game we have a list of movies to watch and Godfather was next on the list I watched the mini series called The Offer which was the making of the Godfather I'm fascinated I think I've seen the Godfather more than I've seen Star Wars.
    65:42
    Okay. So of the movies, one, two, and three, what do you think is my favorite of the three? Well, you can throw three in the garbage. And so one might be the most influential movie of all time, maybe top three. Two is a better movie. Like two is just like I can't believe they did all this stuff. Wow, you made, at the time when there weren't sequels, you made a sequel and also a prequel in the same movie? you know think of what Quentin Tarantino does when he goes all over the place, jumps back and forth and back and forth, that was kind of created in Godfather 2, I'm not going to give any spoilers away if you haven't seen the movie but it's just the acting, the storytelling the cinematography, it's God at all I've watched Godfather 1 way more times because of the initial storytelling but 2 is maybe the best movie ever made cool to you i am okay so for me out of the three movies i would have to say if i'm really honest i've not seen any of them you're such a dick fuck but fucking crocodile dundee you've seen you know them like the back of your hands many times I've not seen any of the Godfather movies you're an idiot how why just don't appeal to me and when I hear that people like you like it yeah I liked your everything all at once movie I thought that was funny as shit yeah because it's a good film and everyone else thinks the same thing so we actually had someone write to me that said that they liked it yeah yeah but we did that before all the awards came out we were like that's very unique and fun yeah okay I'll tell you what It's one of these things. I don't know. I'm not really into gangster films, okay? Which is why it's always been a bit of a turn-off. But it doesn't mean I don't want to watch it. You know what The Godfather is about, first of all? You haven't even seen it. It's about family and the mistreating.
    67:51
    Oh, fuck. My God. Is that spot on? Is that uncanny? Just how Italian-Americans have been treated. Oh, fuck, man. It's such a perfect movie. I've got a choice after this podcast I can either continue Playing Horizon Forbidden West Or I can watch Godfather That's the choice I've got in front of me You won't watch Godfather I don't know I remember this one time When I was doing Head to Head There was a dare about whether I would watch the Goonies or not I did end up watching the Goonies How can you even say the fucking Goonies In the same sentence as the Godfather Yeah it's got a better cast Better acting, better script Go away. Speaking of, okay, again, we're talking about, I did something I have never ever seen in my life. I saw something. And some people say this would make a great pinball machine. Our good friend Ed Robertson would fucking love it if it was a pinball machine. What am I talking about? Is it a Canadian thing? No, it's Big Bang Theory, the television show. I watched three minutes of that piece of shit and was like, you are insulting absolutely any intelligence i might have at oh my god just every line laugh track laugh track laugh to fuck off okay okay okay okay okay okay okay if you had said to me i watched the big bang theory for the first time what do you think i'm not trying to get a gauge on what you thought i i knew you wouldn't have liked it mainly because big bang theory subscribes to the old sitcom model of each episode is effectively a self-contained episode the the jokes are very much forced and shoved down your throat there's canned laughter sorry where are the jokes they laugh at things that aren't jokes that's the problem i actually no i've got to tell you i actually watched maybe a couple of seasons of it and and i enjoyed it but I just felt that comedy had moved on, and I felt that Big Bang Theory had become very, well, probably always was, very pedestrian, very cheap humor. Yeah. And we've moved on, but I don't think it's bad. I can't imagine how you'd make it into a pinball machine, though. Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great pinball machine. Of course it would be a great one. Maybe not now because it's out here. But I can't imagine how you could make it a great machine. What could you do? You shoot for the character. I mean, it's not, who knows, some stupid story mode or whatever. I don't even know the character's names. I could care less. It's Sheldon. I could care less as well. Anyway. I don't hate it. I do. And I'm not surprised that you didn't enjoy it. And it goes back to what I was saying in that I think that we as a society and as humans have moved forward from that type of humor. Yeah. Yep. But also, it was the most popular show, as was Two and a Half Men, also another show that I felt was very pedestrian. Same creator, that Chuck Lorre guy. And Chuck, if you're listening, sorry, dude. You appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is the majority of people. So from a marketing standpoint, you're doing a brilliant thing. You're reaching the masses. So compare that to pinball. Make games easier, right? Appeal to not the Carl D'Angelo wizard mode great players or, you know, who gives a shit about the top 100 players? And I agree. Appeal to the masses that just want to have fun playing pinball, want to see things, want to be able to lock a ball, get a multi-ball, get an extra ball. But you may have seen that there was a picture, there was a photo of Jersey Jack in front of three posters behind him. One was Wizard of Oz. the other was Hobbit possibly and the third was Harry Potter and he said two down one to go and then they've announced this have a seat at the table using the Godfather font and people are saying oh my god it's Godfather and other people are saying no it's actually Harry Potter what do you think Jeff? Well I know the answer it's godfather it's godfather i don't and hey man 2023 possible conspiracies may be in existence yeah especially in north america i don't know what's like on your side of the planet but uh yeah it's getting like that listen is harry potter just came out with that new video game Do you have it? Finished it. Okay, so the answer is yes, and got it probably day one. Probably loved it. I saw the sales for it. It's fantastic. Sort of the... Okay, it's fantastic. Yeah, so again, it's going to happen in our lifetime. It's not a fantastic game. It is a great game. Add the Harry Potter world to it, it makes it a fantastic game. That's all. Okay. The only Harry Potter game I've played And I have a Playstation 5 I think you do too I can remember Sure One of those Whatever the plus Or the Premium Pack whatever you buy the annual thing I got a free Harry Potter Complete Lego Harry Potter thing It was fun as shit. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's so fun. Okay, I have only platinumed a couple of games. The Harry Potter Lego one is one of them, and it came in two parts. It's fantastic. I knew you were going to say that because there was actually another Harry Potter game that came out. It was okay. but, and this is what I'm saying sorry, we'll get back to pinball in a second this Hogwarts Legacy that's come out is a good, it's a really good solid RPG, but you then turn everything into Harry Potter terminology then you've got this ultimate RPG, that's all it is but yes, I finished it, done So, do you play it with your joystick or are you able to bring out your wand?
    74:06
    Okay. All right. You know I don't have a wand. You do have a wand. It's behind a special glass. In case of emergency, break here. Virtuoso, blah, blah, blah. Whatever the fuck. No, I had this, like, that's a proper spell. Whatever. We're cutting him. Let me. I did have a wand. It was Bellatrix Lestrange's wand. What do you mean you had? I gave it to someone. Why? okay i had this conversation with somebody not me i work this way no like i i think you go to work every day and if something shit happens you pull it out your sleeve and cast a spell correct it's almost like that now this was my previous job there was one of my team leaders who was just massive into harry potter like just massive into it and one day i said you know what you can have this wand and i gave her my wand you waited four hours in line for that thing didn't you Oh, it's better now. Shut up. Same thing. After one, it might as well be four. Who waits? Oh. Okay, no, you haven't even got to the best part of the story. Two weeks later, she resigned and left.
    75:16
    Oh. Insert C-bomb here. Which then reminded me of a story where I had my very first pinball machine that I owned. So bringing this back to pinball. Roller games. Correct. I rethemed it to a client and gave it to a client shipped it from Melbourne to Sydney and then a week later they sacked us fuck that's a true story and you have been a miserable SOB ever since and you don't do anything nice for anyone now is that the the lesson has been learned I will never do that again is the lesson but also you know I got paid for my roller games I was fine with it I was happy with what I got. Like, had I sold it today, it would be going for three times the amount, but back in the day, I was happy with what I got. But it's just one of those things where even though you know, you know me, you know how much of an arsehole I am. Every once in a while, I will do a random act of kindness. Turns out, every time I do that, fuck, I'm back in my face. So, I just shouldn't do it. And thus, the killing spree has begun.
    76:28
    so there you go okay but let's talk do you think godzilla godzilla godfather they both start with god it's practically the same thing okay do you think godfather is a good pinball theme fucking right i do no it's terrible no bullshit i like i love the idea of it sorry do you think let's be honest do you think godzilla is a great pinball theme or i'm not talking about great machine do you think it's a great theme like put up your hand how many godzilla movies you've watched in your life no i i said from day one i thought it was a terrible thing but it does does it so wow sorry to go against the norm does theme really matter or does the quality of the game matter more it's the latter i guess because i don't know the godfather movies as we've obviously just recently established i i don't know enough about the story to be able to know what you could do to turn it into modes.
    77:29
    You also haven't seen the movie. That might help. That's why I'm asking you whether you think it's a good theme, and you've said yes. Do you think that there's enough in the movies to be able to make that? And do you think they're going to come out with it actually being Godfather 4? Stop it! No, there'll be no Godfather 4.
    77:51
    Oh, I'm so excited for this. There's a Toy Story reference. I get it. Funny. But why? Why do I like this?
    78:02
    I'm actually not having a go with you. With somebody that doesn't know, and there's going to be a lot of people out there, I have this feeling that I'm not the only person that hasn't seen a Godfather film. I'm just going to say it. I want you,
    78:17
    and I genuinely mean this, I want you to tell me why it makes for a good pinball machine. it's the world. Yeah, okay. It's that world. There are a few songs in my life where almost every single time I hear them, I get goosebumps. The theme to Godfather, if I know it's coming on and I hear it, I'm like, fuck, I'm strapped in. I'm ready to go.
    78:43
    I'm not moving for three hours. This is, oh, fuck, I love it. And, yeah, I mean, it's just such a deep, deep story that I haven't seen the game. We were recording before the game's come out.
    79:01
    I imagine there's going to be a lot left on the table that they can't put in the game for just, there's so much in there that I don't know how they're going to get it all in there. Is there a pig's head involved? It's a horse's head. Horse's head. There you go. The horse's head. So without spoiling it, I guess I am spoiling it. It's a 51-year-old movie, so too bad. This actor goes up to the Godfather and asks to get a producer to put him in a movie part. And the producer won't do it because the producer's girlfriend was stolen by this actor. He's like, I'll never put him in a movie, blah, blah, blah. And that producer loved the horse, and he refused the request of the Godfather. and woke up with a, which originally was a prop of a horse's head. It was, if you watch the movie, it is an actual horse's severed head. They didn't kill the horse to put in the movie. The horse was already dead. They got it from like a dog food place. This is 1972.
    80:06
    And they, you know, watch the movie, watch the series, The Offer, you'll understand. But it was like, you didn't get this from me. and the actor had no idea that it was going to be a real head. He knew about the prop. They put in the real one. The actor loses his shit.
    80:20
    Spectacular. Okay. Love it. I didn't even realize. When you say 51 years, I'm like, ah, bullshit. Obviously, I'm on the Wikipedia site. March 72. Yep. Fucking hell. Okay. All right. I've just realized that Diane Keaton's in it, and I love her. For those that don't know, my dad's side of the family is Italian. My actual last name is Teolese, T-E-O-L-E-S-E. I am born Teolis, but my grandfather, Salvatore John Teolese, his birth certificate is that. And then just, you know, as his family came over, they spelt it wrong on the papers, so to speak, and Teolis was born, but his birth certificate is Teolese. So watching these movies and, you know, that Italian side of me, look at this redhead Italian. With a Greek-sounding last name. Anyway, it means a lot to me. So what you're saying to us, everybody, is that you're sort of pretty much in the mob, in the family. Okay, cool.
    81:20
    Just what you're saying. That's what I got out of that. It's an acting masterpiece. I'm curious what the call-outs will be like, because James Caan, who played Sonny, the oldest son, died almost a year ago. He would have been kind of the person to do it. But Pacino probably can't pull off that voice of the young Michael Corleone. Robert Duvall is 80-some-odd years. I just don't know what they're going to do. But you know what?
    81:49
    At 51 years, there's so many impersonators out there, it's going to sound great. So, yeah, I haven't really heard anything that's going to make it a great people, but sure, whatever. We'll have to see. Aren't you a fan of Eric? Like, I enjoy Guns N' Roses. as it was something to see. Yeah, of course. Okay. No, that's what I was about to say. No. I don't think they're going to... I still don't think Jersey Jack has put a foot wrong, really. Yeah, no kidding. Well, except maybe... Hobbit.
    82:21
    No, I loved Hobbit. Wonka. I didn't fall in love with it, but I still think they did it justice, if that makes sense. Yeah, I like Wonka. Yeah. So I think if anyone's going to do it justice, It's going to be Godfather. We're going to be laughing ourselves silly when it's Harry Potter. But anyway. So let's move on then to Galactic Tank Force. American Pinball. Which American Pinball is going to come out with. Now, I think, again, we're recording on the 5th of March, 2023. I don't know. I have this weird feeling that Galactic Tank Force is the dark horse of what's going to be revealed at TPF. I just, I know nothing about this game. I've just seen the fonts and some video footage of the screens.
    83:16
    I just have this feeling that it's going to be a great game. I've got no evidence to back that up. I just feel in my waters that this is going to be actually quite enjoyable. Even though it's an original theme, I think that they might just surprise us. Well, the expectation of Foo Fighters, the expectation of Godfather, because of Stern and Jersey Jack, is quite high.
    83:45
    You know, those are known IPs. Galactic Tank Force is all original. It's not a licensed IP. so they have to create all the content and can do whatever they want. Of course, they have to animate it, film it, all that kind of good stuff. It allows you to do whatever the hell you want without having to get permission. So the expectations are low for Galactic Tank Force, which only means, like you say, you're going to be a lot more satisfied than you thought you were. Yeah, I do. And that also can be said for Foo Fighters and Godfather, but the expectations are already high, whereas Galactic Tank Force, okay, well, Hot Wheels is the only licensed team they've had so far. In this world of more homeowners than operators, I don't want to say the wrong thing because I know I'm going to be laughed at, but does the theme matter as much if you're buying it for your home? I guess I'm a huge Foo Fighters fan. Fuck yeah, I've got to have it. That makes sense. That's an easier buy. Galactic Tank Force, you've got to impress me. You've got to impress me with the play field. You've got to impress me with the call-outs and the rules and stuff. So they have to really win you over, whereas Foo Fighters, like perfect example again, Led Zeppelin, I didn't give a shit what it was. I was getting it. I got it. I was like, ah, fuck. You know what I mean? Yeah. Look, I know what you mean. Like with Foo Fighters, they could have just done a big dump on a play field and people probably would have put it in numbers. The fact that it's as good as it is, great. That's just like wowed us. Hey, man. And I agree with you. I think Galactic Tank Force, they're already at a bit of a disadvantage. They have to prove themselves. I don't know. I just have this feeling that they are going to prove themselves. Kelts had to do it. You know that from Haggis, right? They had to do it. No one knew what the hell it was, and you played it, and you were like, holy fuck, this is good. It's a really well-built machine. It's a good shooter. Rules are pretty cool. Wow, that's nice to see the display in the middle. You won them over. But you didn't have the instant sales because show me first. You know what I mean? Like at least Spooky, you know, they do all their sales before you see the game but you know the IP with the exception of obviously America's Most Haunted. You didn't know but you knew who Rob Zombie was for the next one and you know Scooby-Doo and Halloween. So, yeah. But yeah, different times as well. We were the post pre-order model where everybody lost their money so it was a bit of a disadvantage there as well. Don't think I'm going to get in trouble for saying this. I've played it. Played what? Galactic Tank Force. I know that you have I have this feeling that we may have spoken about it Okay Can you at least say that I haven't told you fuck all about it Other than I've played it No I know nothing about this game No 100% And even then What you've got to understand listener Is that Jeff and I have got a very good relationship We have for many years And one thing that we have Is that we never lie to each other Ever 100% never lie even if it's a difficult conversation we will never lie so what that means is if I ask Jeff a question like have you played Galactic Tank Force he won't lie to me he won't necessarily tell the truth no but conversely too I know where you work and we're good friends I respect your job and the people that you work for to not ask you hey what's game number three four five six seven you know what i mean it's none of my business and that puts you in an awkward position and friendship is more important than that so the same same goes with my friends at stern at jersey jack at multimorphic at at american spooky can i just say something what's been really interesting is a number of times on this podcast you've gone oh yeah i knew it was this and i'm like fuck you could have told me you don't tell me this shit I don't even think I told you when Legends came out, did I? No, that's right. No, that's exactly right. But you didn't. So that's why I had to message you saying, hey, did you do the voice in this? You just don't know. And that right there, listener, is what integrity is all about, is when you know a secret, but you don't tell anyone about it. Integrity, it's called. Well, I'm a pretty good vault that way. And I, again, it's basically really because of the relationships I have with the individuals that have shared information with me. And, yeah, I mean, I guess if you want to put me on a torture chamber, you probably could get something out of me. Please don't. But I did play Galactic Tank Force quite some time ago. Fun, fun, fun shooter. Okay, so I'm not going to be disappointed is what I'm hearing, is that my – actually, no, I know what's happened. you've come clean because it sounds like i've got inside information saying i think it's going to be really good i don't i don't know that i just feel that american pinball have had enough experience now they've also got nordman on board they've got you know what i mean remember that if you're a fan of nordman you're gonna love this game which i am um i just think they I don't know I just think that I don't know whatever I just think they can do right again I told you just minutes ago that I love humor in games I think that's why I think if people are similar they'll enjoy Galactic Tank Force awesome you know what they don't take themselves too serious which is pretty awesome okay so here's a really good segue for you ready so all these games have been announced now in time for Texas Pimple Festival. Yes.
    89:35
    So what's happening at TPF? A lot of things are happening at TPF. Really? What's happening? Pinball Brothers is going to be there.
    89:46
    Multimorphic hasn't come out again at this time, but Scott Denisey's got something he's working on, so maybe that'll be there. Chicago Gaming is getting close from what we hear for their next title. and then what about those fine people in the bottom of the world in a little corner known as australia what's going on with haggis i don't know what are you getting at this has not been announced yet no it hasn't been it hasn't been announced but hopefully by the time this gets out it has been announced but yeah i'm actually going to be at tpf haggis is going to be at tp marty this is the first time you've been over in four years because of the pandemic has Has it really been that long? Yes. It was, it's, it's, it's, it, I mean, sadly, time flies as you get older. And that pandemic really just like was a, you know, you woke up out of a coma almost in a way. Marty and yours truly are going to be at TPF. Well, fuck, we got to do something, don't we? What can we possibly do that warrants us being at TPF? Well, guess what, listener? Marty and I are going to be hosting a sex party at TPF the Roger Sharp movie and Q&A period afterwards on Friday night. It's going to be fucking awesome. What? You're kidding me. Oh my God. I would pay a hundred bucks for that. You can pay it to me. That's fine. But hey, that is Friday night at TPF.
    91:23
    Great double bill, by the way. Let's not discredit our good friend Emoto Harney, who I talk to all the time, and we email each other all the time. We keep Marty out of it. But anyway, the point is Emoto has her movie that she did with Todd Tuckey. That's going to be airing right before. A double bill! So you're going to see that. And then Roger Sharp is going to be in attendance. You and I are going to drill him. And I've got some experience doing this because he just came to Toronto a week ago for a screening here on the worst possible blizzard possible, but we still got it through. And Ed Robertson was great to help out with the Q&A. The movie's great. I've seen it a couple times. Everyone enjoyed it. It's going to be fun. And it will also be available on stream on March 17th on Amazon, I believe, a Prime video. But see it on the big screen with Roger there with a Q&A with Marty and Jeff. final round doing the q a tpf fuck me i gotta go i gotta tell you look i'm i'm obviously i'm very keen to go but that's part of it i'm going as part of the haggis contingent so i'm really looking forward to speaking to existing customers and possible future customers nice um Yeah, I'm excited to be back at TPF. I still think, you know, best show of the year. Hoping to catch up with a lot of people I haven't spoken to for quite some time. And that's why I was asking, you know, Carl, if he's going, because I haven't seen Carl for many years. So I'm looking forward to it. So I would love for people to come up to the Hankers booth and say hello. But I feel there needs to be a secret code for people to let me know that they know the podcast. And I feel people need to come up to me and say, Here's a reach around. Jeff's a cunt.
    93:26
    Jeff's a cunt. And I will know because I will nod and I'll go, yeah, he is. And that will be my response. And if you get that response, then that's our secret handshake.
    93:38
    it's going to be great. It's going to be good to see you, Mart. It's, you know, you said, I'm looking forward to talking to people. I haven't talked to him quite some time. Well, you talk to me almost every other week. So are you saying, is that a backhanded way of saying, I don't really want to talk to you. I fucking talk to you all the time. Fine. I'll do the Q and A, but you know, I am so fucking keen to see you and catch up with you in person. Open mouth. Are you talking here?
    94:02
    Um, I don't know. I might. We'll see. Oh, you know what I did for the ride? Speaking of open mouth, there may be a kiss or two. Hey, listen. All right, we're buds. I think I did plant you when I left. I planted one on you when I left Australia, and you planted one on me after you left Pittsburgh or the other way around. I remember that. My wife was like, hey, what's that? I'm like, just pay no attention.
    94:25
    Anyway, the point is. That's a secret sex thing that we have. Listen, it's their customs. Anyway. What was I going to say? Fuck. so everybody I am looking forward to TPF I'm looking forward to all the reveals I'm looking forward to the twippies I wish everyone it's going to be a fun show have a great time hope to see you there oh I know what I was going to say we were talking about the open mouth thing can I go back to that don't make me stop you going back to the open mouth thing the reason I say that is for like three four weeks i grew my goatee without trimming it and it got pretty freaking bushy and i did that on purpose because when roger sharp came up i shaved everything but my mustache so we had identical mustaches i don't know how the fuck he pulls it off because i look like my wife could not stop laughing at me like you look like the biggest idiot ever where's your chin oh my god it hung over my bottom lip. I looked like a walrus. I looked like Wilford Brimley. It was not a good look.
    95:43
    Oh boy. I don't think I posted any pictures because I was like, fuck Marty, I'll be all over that. That's all I'll see. Wise move. Yeah.
    95:57
    Good call. And then Roger, of course. He was in Florida the week before he comes up to Toronto, where we've been in the frozen tundra forever, we are not only as white as possible, we're fluorescent. And so he comes in with this golden tan and I'm sitting beside, no camera can adjust to a photo of me and tanned Roger Sharp. It just doesn't, it's not possible. They don't have the technology yet to make that picture happen. So anyway, good time. You're going to love the movie. So good. Awesome. And I hope I get to see it before we get to the Q&A. Otherwise, I'm going to be winging it like you wouldn't believe. Like saying, hey, we've got a special guest. Oh, fuck, who is it? Oh, why don't you guess?
    96:42
    Can't I prepare? You. All right. Well, thank you, Carl, for coming on the program. Hey, this probably is the last show before TPF, so please say hi to Marty at Haggis. Come to the Friday night Roger Sharp movie and Q&A.
    96:59
    Looking forward to it. We'll get our secret handshake when you come and see me. Jessica. Yeah. By the way, what if they just came up and their fly was undone and they made you direct your eyes down to them, to the open fly? It happens quite often anyway, so it's hard to know whether that's podcast related. Yeah, that's a good point. We need to differentiate. Okay. Hey, Marty, good luck editing, my friend. Thank you.
    97:27
    Thanks, Matt. Will this be out before TBF? yeah but enjoy the godfather alright thanks thanks everyone bye