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Episode 664: "Jennifer From Deeproot"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·39m 54s·analyzed·Apr 3, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

First insider account from Deep Root Pinball employee reveals dysfunction, missed pay, and lack of manufacturing expertise.

Summary

Jennifer Molloy, a technical writer who worked at Deep Root Pinball for four months in early 2019, provides the first insider account of the company's internal operations. She describes a 40-50 person facility in San Antonio with ambitious plans, significant micromanagement and direction changes by founder Robert Mueller, missed payroll in April 2019, lack of manufacturing expertise, and cryptic financing. The interview offers rare firsthand testimony about the company's culture, dysfunction, and eventual collapse.

Key Claims

  • Jennifer Molloy worked at Deep Root Pinball from January 2019 through end of April 2019 as a technical writer

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy stated directly: 'I was there from the beginning of the year, January 19 until technically I was there through the first week of May. But really we had that week off because of all the problems with pay.'

  • Deep Root had 40-50 employees when Molloy started in 2019

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'I think it was between 40 and 50' when asked about headcount at the facility

  • Payroll was first missed on April 1, 2019, with Robert Mueller citing delayed investment cases as the reason

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'We were supposed to get paid April 1... he just posted that there was a delay in pay... I believe he said that the investment cases he expected hadn't come in on time.'

  • In April 2019, Deep Root made a strategic decision to focus on completing Raza as a basic pinball machine before pursuing other projects

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'In April when all of the pay problems first happened... one of the heads of engineering had a meeting and told us... here is what we are doing. We are scrapping a lot of the extra features we talked about, we are just going to make A regular pinball machine out of Raza.'

  • Deep Root planned to include features like a pin bar, auto leveler, and rotisserie system to assist smaller employees and easier assembly, which were later scrapped

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy described planned features: 'The pin bar was one. There was something about lifting the playfield for repairs... ideas that would make it easier to assemble the machines for somebody who's not extremely strong or a smaller person.'

  • Robert Mueller operated a separate Utah studio focused on animation and software, hiring talent from major studios like Pixar

    medium confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'Robert talks about how... we're going to set up this studio... we want to get like, you know, TV stuff going, movies... he was hiring people away from like Pixar and, you know, like big names was my understanding in animation.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I walked through the door you see all the big equipment. It was sad... I mean obviously now I know that a lot of people have some, you know, great financial hardship from this, which is very sad.”

    Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Reflects on emotional weight of witnessing the failed venture's assets at auction and recognizing investor losses

  • “This paranoia of Robert seems to be a theme that he treated you like you were defecting nuclear scientist who couldn't be allowed anywhere near the facilities... and it was just pinball.”

    Kaneda (host) @ N/A — Host characterizes Robert Mueller's extreme secrecy and legal threats as disproportionate to the industry and product

  • “I had suggested to one of my friends that a Ponzi scheme might have been a possibility. I am surprised still as to that he got that much in investment money because it was a pretty small investment firm, you know?”

    Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Insider speculation about Deep Root's financing structure and Mueller's ability to raise capital

  • “We all certainly feel very bad for the people and wish that we had not had any part of it even unknowingly.”

    Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Expresses remorse about employees' unknowing role in what may have been investor fraud

  • “The employees at the time, like I said, were, you know, very nice people and they were always so pleasant and it was such a nice place with all the people there. So yeah, it was definitely sad.”

    Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Distinguishes between positive workplace culture and dysfunction at leadership/financing level

  • “There was a page and a half of toilet Rules... of, you know, what you could and couldn't do in the bathroom that you must use the poo perry spray, you know, things like that. And that was all Robert.”

    Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Illustrates Robert Mueller's controlling and eccentric management style through concrete detail

  • “I think it's more just scared because he's constantly threatening to sue you, and I think it's just if he follows through, they don't want to deal with all of the headaches from it.”

Entities

Jennifer MolloypersonRobert MuellerpersonDeep Root PinballcompanyKanedapersonSteve BowdenpersonJohn PapadiukpersonRazagameJohn Norrisperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root's trajectory from full employment (40-50 people) in January 2019 to first missed payroll in April 2019, followed by eventual collapse and auction

    high · Jennifer Molloy worked Jan-Apr 2019, payroll first missed April 1; she left by end of April after securing alternative employment immediately upon learning of payment delays

  • ?

    industry_signal: Kaneda alleges that industry figures (Steve Bowden, John Norris, Dennis Nordman, Quinn Johnson) knew about Deep Root's problems but publicly promoted the company instead of warning community

    medium · Kaneda states: 'There are many people in this community who worked at Deep Root Pinball who did not let the community know how bad things were going over there... they went on shows and they convinced everybody that this company was going to do great things'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Deep Root hired animation talent from major studios like Pixar for a separate Utah studio despite lacking manufacturing expertise or producing any games

    medium · Jennifer Molloy: 'he was hiring people away from like Pixar and, you know, like big names was my understanding in animation' for a studio focused on 'TV stuff going, movies' in addition to pinball

  • ?

    product_strategy: In April 2019, Deep Root pivoted from ambitious multi-game pipeline with advanced features to single-game focus (Raza) with stripped-down spec

    high · Jennifer Molloy: 'We are scrapping a lot of the extra features we talked about, we are just going to make A regular pinball machine out of Raza. We're going to get that out so we can get income coming in.'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.120

0:00
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0:24
Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast and this is going to be a first This is going to be a first time that we talk to someone who worked at Deep Root Pinball after Deep Root's collapse. And we haven't heard from anyone else over there. We haven't heard from Steve Bowden. We haven't heard from John Norris. We haven't heard from Dennis Nordman. We haven't heard from Quinn Johnson. Any of the people involved with Deep Root Pinball, it's still somewhat of a mystery what it was like going to work at Deep Root. So I am going to give you a great interview with a great I'm a great woman who spent a few months over at Deep Root Pinball and this is going to be the first of a few interviews I do with people who used to be at Deep Root. So I hope you enjoy it. She's a really, really amazing person and we've been talking for a long time and it was great to finally hit record and let you know what a few months was like over at Deep Root Pinball. I want to also say something and I mean it when I say this. There are many people in this community who worked at Deep Root Pinball who did not let the community know how bad things were going over there. And there were people who knew a lot about pinball who did not say anything. In fact, they said the opposite. They went on shows and they convinced everybody that this company was going to do great things, bring great innovations into the pinball market, ADA Naravik bible więks, ρ blonde, the
2:20
www.kanedaclub.com Ladies and gentlemen, it's been a while since Kaneda has had an interview, but I want to welcome to the show Jennifer Molloy to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Jennifer, welcome. Jennifer Molloy Hello. Hi. Thanks. David Van Es. Now, people might be wondering who is Jennifer because you are not a name that comes up in the pinball world. Jennifer, what's your connection to pinball? Jennifer Molloy I worked at Deep Root in 2019. I was one of the technical writers there. Okay, so this is obviously one of the most interesting, one of the most dramatic pinball companies of all time. Let's just talk about it. I really want to hear your story because we've been waiting to talk to people who have actually been behind the doors at Deep Root. Where should we start? Let's just start by how did you even become aware of Deep Root? Yeah, so there was an Indeed job listing. I'm in San Antonio and there was a listing for a technical writer. So I went in and interviewed and at the time I interviewed with Robert and one of the heads of engineering and it was what seemed to be a very tiny place. Just, you know, a handful of employees working on pinball funded by the investment division. I believed it was very small when I first interviewed there. Then, of course, things take a while. I had to put a note Okay, so one of my favorite episodes of the season. And as you've understood, I don't know if this the last sure 뜨거Jo impatient Advance edition or not, because this is like show box. Yeah, so the technical writer would put together all of the manuals for pinball, anything like instructions, any sort of signage for the building on dangerous conditions, anything like that. So I was hired to do all of the instruction manuals for pinball and then I also have a pretty strong legal financial background. So I also would be working on some of the investment materials and literature. Okay. Now, how did Robert sell the company to you when you were interviewing there? What was it like? What was his sort of, you really got to join this team? He didn't do any sort of hard sell whatsoever. He just went through what Deep Root does in terms of the investments. And then he said that pinball was going through a big resurgence and becoming very popular again. And therefore, we were going to start up a new arm of the company that was making pinball machines. So he just went through what What currently Deep Root did and what the plan was to make pinball machines. And I'm not from the pinball industry, not very familiar with pinball, so I wasn't, not like I would know whether it was becoming really popular, you know, I didn't really know much about pinball at the time at all. And you said when you interviewed there weren't that many people there and then when you went through the door there were more people. Was this in Texas? Is that where you were interviewing? Can you tell us a little bit about the place? Yes, San Antonio. So it's the big facility. It was an extremely large facility. And yes, I remember being surprised and puzzled at the number of employees when I first started working there just because then I wondered how could he afford to have all these people, this facility, etc. It was puzzling. We're going to talk about all of this. So how many people roughly were there when you started? You said you were surprised by how many people were there, like head count, roughly. I think it was between 40 and 50. And this is 2019 and so you walked through the door, technical writer. What did he have you work on first? Like what kinds of projects were you doing? Because was it pinball? Was it employee manual? What kind of stuff were you working on? So I did the Deep Root employee manual was one thing. A lot of what I did was just taking stuff that they had around from, you know, like N K Variaciones Canada Chan tan t las

Jennifer Molloy signed an extremely broad and restrictive employment contract that prohibited her from discussing many aspects of work

high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'We were not told at the time that we would be signing this monstrous, basically employment contract that prohibited us from everything. So it was written so broadly that we could not...'

  • No Deep Root pinball machines were ever playable by employees during Molloy's tenure; only Steve Bowden played the machines

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'We had a number of other machines in the lunchroom break room that we all played regularly, but there were never any Deep Root machines there... Steve Bowden. He's the only person I knew who ever played them.'

  • When Molloy left in late April 2019, employees had only received partial payments after the April 1 missed payday

    high confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'we did get a partial payment several weeks later... I left at the end of April. I believe it was still a few weeks after that and then he was making partial payments.'

  • Robert Mueller did not give preferential treatment to John Papadiuk; Molloy's firsthand observation was that Papadiuk was treated the same as other employees

    medium confidence · Jennifer Molloy: 'what I saw was, you know, John just came into the office... From what I saw, he came in same as any other employee... Robert did not pay him higher... Robert didn't give him any different attention at all.'

    • Jennifer Molloy @ N/A — Addresses ongoing fear among former employees of Robert Mueller's litigation threats

  • “The Pinball Ponzi Scheme. Yeah, and he might have provided a lot of good footage when he had visitors in... there's those moments where he's sort of staring at the camera a little too long after each statement and you realize he just thought he was like Walt Disney in his own head.”

    Kaneda (host) @ N/A — Host proposes documentary title and characterizes Mueller's delusional self-perception

    • Dennis Nordman
    person
    Quinn Johnsonperson
    Pixarcompany

    regulatory_signal: SEC investigating Deep Root for what may constitute investment fraud or Ponzi scheme; legal consequences pending for Robert Mueller

    high · Kaneda references 'the SEC suit' and asks about jail time; Jennifer expresses hope Mueller 'should do time of whatever somebody else who does that sort of crime does'

  • ?

    community_signal: This is the first public testimony from a Deep Root employee post-collapse; prior employees have remained silent or defended company publicly

    high · Kaneda: 'This is going to be a first time that we talk to someone who worked at Deep Root Pinball after Deep Root's collapse. And we haven't heard from anyone else over there... Steve Bowden, John Norris... it's still somewhat of a mystery'

  • ?

    product_concern: Deep Root had no dedicated head of manufacturing and lacked manufacturing expertise despite planning to produce pinball machines

    high · Jennifer Molloy: 'Not to my knowledge. When I was there, we had two heads of engineering, but at least to my knowledge, There was not a head of manufacturing'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Deep Root's original ambitious feature set (pin bar, auto-leveler, rotisserie system) prioritized solving non-problems and accessibility over shipping a working machine

    high · Kaneda: 'We saw some of that stuff... A lot of solving problems that weren't really problems. I think that was one of the mistakes.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: When Deep Root announced employees could take unpaid time off due to payment crisis, different employees interpreted and acted on policy in chaotic ways (some got second jobs, others called in sick for weeks)

    high · Jennifer Molloy described varied responses: she worked secondary jobs (Amazon, pet-sitting), others called in sick for 1-2 weeks, and one employee regularly posted excuses (including impounded car) to Slack

  • ?

    industry_signal: Robert Mueller's pervasive use of legal threats and extremely broad restrictive employment contracts created culture of fear among employees

    high · Jennifer Molloy: 'monstrous, basically employment contract that prohibited us from everything. So it was written so broadly...'; also some employees believed Mueller listened via office cameras and wouldn't discuss concerns

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community awaiting resolution of SEC case and potential criminal consequences for Robert Mueller

    medium · Kaneda: 'there's going to be more SEC stuff. There's going to be a day in which Robert will have to face the music'; Jennifer expresses hope he will face consequences commensurate with other financial crime perpetrators

  • ?

    content_signal: Host and guest discuss potential documentary about Deep Root's collapse, referencing Mueller's cringe-worthy self-promotional video content

    medium · Kaneda: 'Do you think this would make a good documentary? Yeah, no doubt. The Pinball Ponzi Scheme... he might have provided a lot of good footage when he had visitors in... those moments where he's sort of staring at the camera a little too long'

    • 7:06
    N tant 26 b mag Knapp Arcade, WPPR incarcerate Pinball, I'm going to get back to the office in the morning. There would be sections added that really, I mean, I did laugh out loud at a lot of them. Like there was a page and a half of toilet Rules, I believe it was of, you know, what you could and couldn't do in the bathroom that you must use the poo perry spray, you know, things like that. And that was all Robert. And then there was a big list of things to do, like in the kitchen for eating and you were prohibited from I'm a little runny here but let's go for it. Can Ahafe sobre este juego, S united's Pinball arbitrator, Michaelworld formatting industry, Angledo Rug, I mean, they made me laugh. I thought they were funny, but I'm like whatever, you know, if this is something that's important to him, it's his company. I find it a little odd, but you know, whatever. Sure. Okay. Right, right. And Robert always had a reputation for being very litigious. Now joining the company, was there a lot of sort of putting the fear of God and people joining that what we're working on is super secretive and what was he like when it came to that? Yes, so that was actually something that was worrisome. So when I first got in there, I had quit my old job, which I mean, I was fine because I didn't enjoy that job. I wanted to get out. However, then I got into Deep Root and we were not told at the time that we would be signing this monstrous, basically employment contract that prohibited us from everything. So it was written so broadly that we could not get Knapp Arcade, WPPR통령 Hi I Knapp So I figured at this point I you know I had already given up my old job By this point you kind of screwed What do you do So I signed it and took a copy and just figured well he probably can enforce a lot of these problematic areas anyway because who going to say I can work again or you know like a court not going to agree on that So I just signed it and hoped I was right with my worries on that But yes it was very long very broad and very scary Yeah, and Jennifer, when you were applying for Deep Root, did you ever Google Robert Mueller, Deep Root? Did you do any background check on who you were joining? I don't recall if I Googled him. I had looked up things on Deep Root. I always do before I interview or take a job. There was very limited information available. I came across, you know, a couple pinball articles, a couple things about Zidware and Deep Root taking over. and I did Google some things and I didn't find much of anything, you know, negative or positive. So, you get in there. You're working on the employee manual. Robert adds some crazy items about potpourri and other don't shove your hand in people's lunches. You complete it. What's next? Like what did he have you working on knowing that you were going to put together these manuals for these pinball machines? Obviously, we know now that those machines didn't come to completion. Were you working on manuals for some of the games? No. Basically, we never got that far. So, we just, when we had time, we weren't doing things. We all just, I think, you know, tried to figure out our own things to do. So, I would research other companies on pinball stuff. I would put together recommendations for our website navigation. I did not have any time to do anything, which to be honest was pretty frequent. Now Jennifer, you've walked through the doors of Deep Root, which is something that most of us have only been able to speculate what it was like. What was it like? Was there a lot of work going on with these fifty plus people? Did it feel like there was stuff happening or was it obvious that not a lot of momentum was occurring? I feel like the people really tried to get a lot going, like the engineer staff and everybody there really, really did honestly try to make these machines and tried to put features in and test things. And so I think, I think the employees really made a good effort and we're trying. I think there was probably a lack of knowledge, you know, going into it as to people who didn't know pinball itself before. And also, There was a lot of change in direction from Robert a lot of times when the engineers would have something going and then he would say, oh no, we should do this instead. And then that was an upheaval and a stop to whatever progress could have been made or had been made to that point. So, you know, in the facility, the employees were all super nice. It was a very nice environment. That was one thing that I was bummed about when I had to leave later. Like it was very nice environment. This was a little bit of a pain, but I think the people were so nice. It was a very pleasant place to be, you know, which was which is nice. It can't always say that about everybody. So the culture was positive, a lot of positive energy, trying to get these machines made and it seems like and we've heard reports that that there was just a lot of projects going on and Robert was micromanaging a lot of it, right? Do you think they were trying to do too much at once building ten machines a year. They just focused on one. Was there ever any discussion? Thank you for having us on. This is great. I can't wait to get started with this discussion. Let's get this one machine done and get in to the second. Yes. That was an actual decision. When I was still there in 2019 one of the heads of engineering had a meeting and told us it was in April when all of the pay problems first happened, when we first missed the pay, he said here is what we are doing. We are scrapping a lot of the extra features we talked about, we are just going to make A regular pinball machine out of Raza. We're going to get that out so we can get income coming in. So that was the plan when I left. And I don't know how then it turned into, oh, no, we're again going to go after 10 or 12 machines. I don't know what happened. But yes, that was the plan laid out to all of us in April 2019 of one machine. Do it basic, get it done and then move on and do other things as they occur to us later. The extra features, do you know what those were? Was it the pin bar? Was it other stuff they were planning? Yeah, I mean there was a whole bunch of them. The pin bar was one. There was something about lifting the playfield for repairs kind of thing. They had a lot of plans that they hoped would make it just easier to assemble the machines for somebody who's not extremely strong or a smaller person. So there were a lot of ideas like that. I don't know how far many of them got, but we were told that they were going to put any of those on hold to just make a working machine. Right. Yeah, we saw some of that stuff. There was an auto leveler, there's the rotisserie so you could take the playfield out. A lot of solving problems that weren't really problems. I think that was one of the mistakes. Sure. Were you there when they finally got the Raza to, I believe it was the Houston show, and they brought it out into the public? Were you around when that happened? I was not. I think that was probably summer 2019 and I left at the end of April 2019. So I was not there for the Houston show. How long were you at Deep Root in total? I was there from the beginning of the year, January 19 until technically I was there through the first week of May. But really we had that week off because of all the problems with pay. So really until the end of April. Let's talk about that. So there were always rumors and speculation that employees were going without pay. What was that like? Like when that first hit that you had it happen, you got to notice that pay wasn't going to occur. What? How did he communicate that? That was a nasty surprise, obviously. So it was, we were supposed to get paid April 1, which of course is April Fool's Day. So there was speculation of is this a joke, which it was not, Out Pinball Podcast, Knapp Arcade, WPPR Podcast Out Pinball Podcast, Knapp Arcade, WPPR Podcast Out Pinball Podcast, Knapp Arcade, WPPRENNIS Podcast So, he just posted that there was a delay in pay. I believe he said I'd have to go back and look exactly. I believe he said that the investment cases he expected hadn't come in on time. So, I believe that was the first excuse he gave just that, oh, things are a little delayed. But I mean, in the facility, the employees, I don't think any of us perhaps Linux Kia or Kaneka, yukun transport 520樓 553 sqn,
    17:57
    Finest, King Beaver's Gnome, allined How many times did he miss pay? So, we did get a partial payment several weeks later and then that's when I had immediately when he missed pay spent that day updating my resume and applying for jobs because I saw the writing on the wall, if you don't have money, this is a big issue, you know? Right. So, I got something else luckily right away and then I left at the end of April. I believe it was still a few weeks after that and then he was making partial payments. My understanding is that he made a couple partial payments here and there and then I think he did get caught up at one point but then it again lapsed. I believe somebody said that at one point he was four months behind pay at well after I was gone So I don't know 100% since I wasn't there at that point, but it was a back and forth scenario, usually way behind. You never knew what you were going to get when for years is my understanding. And Jennifer when you were there what was their discussion amongst the employees Where the money coming from We know we not shipping any games What was it like trying to figure out how this whole thing was being financed Yeah I mean there were a few of us that had questions I assume most people probably had questions But there were a lot of people that were convinced Robert listened to us on the cameras and stuff So there were some people who were just unwilling to talk about anything or any questions they had So I talked to a few people I know you know I had questions from day one once I got in there and Tidence Rasseござgin season EL angelesмуa and duo Knapp Arcade, WPPR Cindinux.com JasmineF Carlo NATp Street estoBlock nous partage ditP implemented .tナ saasance continue Revelation annuelle‏ители-nour pasando‏ decorationsWe quer write N nicest alarbox promotionno Information wish the pnpoطliți koinkie oht formaŭziś implicationêit Körineå 어떻게ąwraneŭ.dàyěkŋıkŤharăšàŭs했는데ŵuźţŬaŭčanyåŭŰţीŪţŭsŭŠŜüŪţŰţôŭņŤŽũŬŧŭŭŭźŬŪŭŭũţŭŬ� Climate Yes, yes. I assumed there must have been some sort of scam going on. I had suggested to one of my friends that a Ponzi scheme might have been a possibility. I am surprised still as to that he got that much in investment money because it was a pretty small investment firm, you know? So that is quite a bit more money than I ever would have expected that In this Podcast Summary heraus educatives sobre todo educativo A I don't know if any, I'm assuming, sure, I bet they feel horrible that they were any part of it. They weren't knowingly any part of it. You know, we all certainly feel very bad for the people and wish that we had not had any part of it even unknowingly. You wisely saw the writing on the wall. You saw the missed paychecks and you knew if money's an issue now, this is not looking good and you got out. Did you leave people behind that were still confident they could turn it around? Yes, there were some people who just thought there was one person I can think of who, no matter what anybody would ever say about Robert or Deep Root, that person would never believe it and would follow Robert anywhere, you know, so... Was that John Papadiuk? No, no. I mean, I met John, but I didn't really know him that well. Yeah, what was it like meeting Jay Pop? Because he's always been sort of the center of all of this. Yeah, so my impression is different than other people. So I know some people think that Robert, you know, idolized him and all these things. That wasn't at all what I got as an employee. It may be true. But it wasn't what I saw firsthand. Firsthand, what I saw was, you know, John just came into the office. He didn't live here when I worked there. So he just traveled in here sometimes. From what I saw, he came in same as any other employee. Speaking, we gonna gossip and he was not treated any different Robert did not pay him Higher autonomous got fancy cognize Robert Nai maybe him any different attention it allurer héit Maduro Bueno de pieces Hahaha3
    24:19
    Hi everyone! Hiiii Hiilai We began families by I think we really had a lot of people that would be like that, but there were some pretty funny situations with the pay. For example, we were told at one point that we could take time off and not worry about putting in any vacation time due to the situation. So we all took that to mean different things. I took it to mean, say we had a second job and we wanted to go and work for pay to cover our bills. and Deep Root would be fine with it. So I did that and I just didn't show up sometimes because I was working delivering for Amazon or doing my other pet sitting job. Then somebody else actually multiple people took that to mean that they could just call in sick. So they would call in sick for an entire week or two weeks at a time. Which was hilarious. Then there was a dude who posted to Slack every day with like a different excuse of respiratory Paty in and then at one of the times, he said that the, that he got pulled over and the cops impounded his car, which, I mean, yeah, I can see what he's saying. Like, I can't pay to get it out because you're not paying me, so you're not going to see me for a long time. So yeah, I mean, people had a lot of different reactions and it was actually, I mean like, the situation wasn't funny, but those things were. Yeah, there was a lot of funny things in reaction. So, we've seen recently, Jennifer, the auction, right? This whole thing collapsed. Eventually, Robert couldn't keep it afloat. Were you aware of the auction? Yes, I actually did go for the inspection day. My curiosity couldn't resist going for the inspection day. And what did you see when you went through the door? To be honest, I understood how all of this money, like kind of where it was squandered to this point. You know, $60 million, even with how that place was, that's still a monstrous amount of money to be gone. But now that I was back in there and saw all the equipment, I mean, these pieces of equipment somewhere as big as a house, you know, which of course these giant industrial pieces of equipment would be millions and millions of dollars just by themselves. So after I saw all that, I thought, oh, yeah, okay, I guess I can see it now. Was there someone in charge of manufacturing? Was there a head of manufacturing that Robert believed in could turn this design studio into an actual pinball manufacturing company? Not to my knowledge. When I was there, we had two heads of engineering, but at least to my knowledge, There was not a head of manufacturing. There definitely was not discussion of it while I was there and I did not hear of them hiring somebody like that. Perhaps somebody later would have better information. Did you ever get a chance to play any of the Deep Root Pinball machines when you were there? No. We had a number of other machines in the lunchroom break room that we all played regularly, but there were never any Deep Root machines there. And while I was there, I think the only person who ever did anything with them in terms of playing them or you know messing around with them was Steve Bowden. He's the only person I knew who ever played them. Was lunch free? Oh, no, we know I brought my own lunch. They didn't provide it. So you walk through the door you see all the big equipment. Was it sad to sort of do a lap around that place knowing everything you know now? Yeah, definitely. It was sad. You know, I mean obviously Obviously, now I know that a lot of people have some, you know, great financial hardship from this, which is very sad. And the employees at the time, like I said, were, you know, very nice people and they were always so pleasant and it was such a nice place with all the people there. So that's sad too, you know, that we all had a great environment. We tried to do our best. We all tried to make things nice for everybody. So yeah, it was definitely sad. Robert was delusional in his efforts?
    29:12
    I had consulted an employment attorney to get some advice on what to do. I had thought I thought maybe I would take a leave of absence and work somewhere else for a while and see what happened with Deep Root. And the attorney told me no I needed to make myself a terminated employee because terminated employees have greater rights to their pay So he advised me what to do He told me to send a letter in writing detailing that you know so he was the first person I worked with and he is going to explain the process of this campaign for us category presentation closing for the contents mentioned above Nemagivamente style of the pod Government Senna to Sanfed or Commission General or company he VAME. VAME Wircom, CDN BeRasip ąVVQ coy, KWR BeVao-2 vVohnIrEVvR. I'm going to be honest with you. I think that my reason was really quite understandable, and I'd never done anything to indicate that they had to worry about me. And I know the other employees who quit around the same time got the same treatment. It wasn't just me, but all of us were very reasonable people. None of us would have been somebody that was going to do something there. This paranoia of Robert seems to be a theme that he treated you like you were defecting nuclear scientist who couldn't be allowed anywhere near the facilities or there could be consequences and it was just pinball. And I think that's one of the reasons why I think he's built up so much animosity with the pinball community. It's a toy in a box of wood with lights and people were litigiously threatened, not just there but I was threatened by him, other people were threatened by him. Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this video. We hope you enjoyed it and we hope you enjoyed our conversation. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. It's nice to finally talk to people. Are you afraid at all now? I mean, I'm always curious because I still think some people are still nervous that Robert will somehow rebound from this and come after us. Definitely, I know that some of my former coworkers are still scared of Robert. I think it's more just scared because he's constantly threatening to sue you, and I think it's just if he follows through, they don't want to deal with all of the headaches from it, which I understand. I am not scared of him. I would say there may be a couple of his cronies that I would understand being scared of. Some of these people who might defend him to the death kind of thing. So there could still be irritations from some of those people, I'm sure. But no, I think he's probably got way bigger fish to fry than me at this point. Yeah, and I'm not even sure he has any cronies left. So the SEC suit, do you hope Robert does some jail time? What do you think his punishment What would your best punishment be? Oh man, I don't know. I mean, I'm yeah, I mean, I yes, I think sure he should do time of whatever somebody else who does that sort of crime does, you know, like, yeah, I, if I had lost any money in it, I, of course would wish for the biggest punishment, I think, ideally, what would have been best, I think, is if he could have done something to make amends financially to those people who lost all their money. Captions by www.we nepdieting.com
    33:37
    Do you think this should be it? Because there are still people in the pinball community that are sort of insinuating that maybe we should sort of get the IP to Raza and make it work. Do you think it should just all die once and for all? I mean, yes, I would think so. If anybody could actually get it something to work and then give some of that money back to the investors who lost their money, then I would say at least that would be something Welcome back to us in this episode of Pinballvoctycznie Arabia, where CubaBean bowling is streaming us a Honestraw from a gallery 어 Win The Rock of Loft AUDommyött CHA there's точно is the only environments that you see movies on which I'm alone you're all sitting down and watching all of a sudden I mean, I like pinball, but I wouldn't buy a machine that expensive myself because I wouldn't use it enough to be worthwhile. If I'm in Vegas, I go to the Pinball Hall of Fame and bring my roller-coasters and play some of the other games and stuff, so I do like it. It's not one of my big life hobbies, I would say. We didn't even talk yet about the Utah studio, right? So they're doing all the software and animations. What was it like? How was it having these two studios, everyone's working on something and yet after all this time there's not even a single working game? Yeah, so the Utah studio was extremely confusing to me and I know many of the other employees. So we're working on these supposedly pinball machines and then Robert talks about how, I was like, oh, we're going to set up this studio because then we want to get like, you know, TV stuff going, movies. And it was like, what? You know, it was very puzzling. And of course, again, you wonder where is this money coming from? Because he was hiring people away from like Pixar and, you know, like big names was my understanding in animation. I mean, many of us talked about like, what in the world is going on here? How, how is this happening financially and why? Like what does this have to do with anything? Would we be just doing everything now? You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was the employees in San Antonio, I know many of us were very puzzled and confused. And I don't know what they were told when they were hired into Utah. I know that I think they were told that it was, oh, we're setting up this major new studio. It's going to be I'm not sure because we didn't really see them and they didn't see us. You know, it was very rare that anybody from either office went to the other. So I think only one time I knew of that people from Utah were in town here in San Antonio. So there really wasn't much chance for us to talk or, you know, How is life after Deep Root been for you? Actually, it's good. I got a job that paid very well right away and it's a great job and I have great coworkers. So it's really good. I do still miss all the people at Deep Root because it was a very nice environment but I was lucky. I moved on right away, got something right away and I got myself a good gig so no complaints from me. That's good to hear. I mean, it sounds like it was a fun place to work, a fun place to hang out, and it just happened to be funded by people who thought they were investing in something else. Yes, right, right. Jennifer, I want to thank you for coming on the show. I mean, this has been something I've always wanted to do is just talk to someone who went behind the door at Deep Root and just get a sense of what it was like. It sounds like it was enjoyable. It was a cluster at the top and Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate the time. We'll definitely stay in contact. I don't think this is over yet. I think there's going to be... No, not by a long shot. Yeah, there's going to be more SEC stuff. There's going to be a day in which Robert will have to face the music, and we'll know Embcee over Nadege just released his official coming out ofaca for others, Also, there is some Yeah, I'm following to see what happens for sure. Do you think this would make a good documentary? Yeah, no doubt. The Pinball Ponzi Scheme. Yeah, and he might have provided a lot of good footage when he had visitors in and talked about the machines and all. I saved all of those videos in 4K because I knew one day people won't believe what a pinpod is. The way he... his videos were just cringe worthy and there's those moments where he's sort of staring at the camera a little too long after each statement and you realize he just thought he was like Walt Disney in his own head. He thought he was like his own Steve Jobs and he just couldn't realize that he's not. Yep, that is correct. Well Jennifer, thank you so much and we're having this conversation ironically on April Fool's Day so I think it's fitting that it is April 1st as we record this. It is the anniversary of the first issue at Deep Root. Yeah, agreed. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Thank you very much.