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The Pinball Show Ep 186: The Best Pinball Of 2025, Holiday Giveaways, & Other Pindustry News

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 40m·analyzed·Dec 16, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Holiday giveaways and Stern Spike 3 cabinet design defense amid community quality concerns.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses holiday giveaways worth $3,500-$4,000, Stern Pinball's production schedule and cabinet redesign for Spike 3, and George Gomez's appearance on Kerry Hardy's podcast addressing community concerns about cabinet cost-cutting. Key topics include clarifications on materials (MDF usage since 2018), cabinet construction changes (threaded inserts vs. glue-jointed seams), and quality control improvements.

Key Claims

  • Stern has only seven more shipping days in 2025 (December 15-19 and December 22, 29)

    high confidence · Host stating production schedule facts

  • James Bond Premium has no plans for future production, though not formally vaulted

    high confidence · Host referencing latest Stern schedule communication

  • Jaws 50th Anniversary represents the final run of that game

    high confidence · Host discussing December production schedule

  • George Gomez designed the new Spike 3 cabinet and expression lighting system

    high confidence · Host discussing Kerry Hardy interview content

  • Stern has used the same MDF material since 2018, including all Godzilla games

    high confidence · George Gomez quote via Kerry Hardy interview

  • New Spike 3 cabinets use threaded inserts and molded pins instead of glued miter joints

    high confidence · George Gomez explaining cabinet construction changes

  • Cabinet panels from Spike 3 backboxes can fit old cabinets, allowing interchangeability

    medium confidence · Host summarizing George Gomez interview points

Notable Quotes

  • “every Godzilla in the world is built with this material”

    George Gomez @ N/A — Direct refutation of claim that Spike 3 materials represent new cost-cutting; establishes continuity with 2018 production standards

  • “the dimensional control and stability of the new cabinet design is more dimensionally stable. It's not as much natural stressors at the joint”

    George Gomez @ N/A — Technical justification for shift from glued to fastened cabinet construction

  • “I just don't know. I've had issues with glue in the past where I've patched cabinets with glue and sometimes the glue job works well and sometimes it doesn't hold”

    Dennis (co-host) @ N/A — Practical validation of George's points about glue reliability concerns

  • “Terry Hardy initially asking if Stern is turning into, quote, the Ikea of pinball”

    Host summarizing Kerry Hardy @ N/A — Captures core community concern about perceived cost-cutting in cabinet design

  • “when these cabinets were getting done out of house, he don't know if they were using this much glue or this much glue”

    Host paraphrasing George Gomez @ N/A — Highlights quality control advantage of in-house production with measurable fasteners vs. invisible glue application

Entities

George GomezpersonKerry HardypersonStern PinballcompanyThe Pinball ShoworganizationFlippin' Out PinballcompanyWalking Dead RemasteredgameJaws 50th AnniversarygameJames Bond Premiumgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Community perception that Stern is cheapening products through material and construction changes despite technical justifications suggesting improvements in durability and quality control

    high · Host noting community reaction as 'overshoot' but legitimate frustration; Kerry Hardy interview framed around 'cheapening' despite George's technical refutations

  • ?

    community_signal: Kerry Hardy interview characterized by hosts as featuring mocking tone (host wore Stern-mocking t-shirt) despite interviewing company representative; described as 'bold' interview approach

    medium · Host noting Kerry wearing 'fully mocking Stern Pinball' t-shirt during interview; characterizing interview as 'bold start'

  • ?

    community_signal: The Pinball Show conducting $3,500-$4,000 holiday giveaway with Flippin' Out Pinball; prizes include $2,000 topper, custom armor sets, shooter rods, art blades, and merchandise

    high · Detailed giveaway mechanics requiring YouTube comment participation, episode sharing, and email verification; comprehensive prize list provided

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spike 3 cabinet redesign driven by historical quality issues in past Stern cabinets (seam separation, glue reliability); shift from glued miter joints to threaded inserts and molded pins improves dimensional stability and quality control

    high · George Gomez explaining cabinet construction changes address 'natural stressors at the joint' and temperature-related expansion/contraction issues from previous designs

  • $

    market_signal: Stranger Things Premium sales increased following new season release; however, Stern discontinued UV kit production for Premium/LE variant despite demand spike

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.480

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:30
Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Pinball Show, episode 186. I'm so happy to be back. Took a little bit of a break there. How are you doing today? It is Christmas time, holiday time. The season's greetings is upon us. Are you in your jam jams? I might be. We went right through to Thanksgiving. Before Thanksgiving, people were traumatized. They were full of stuffing and taters and all the jellies.
1:04
And we didn't give them anything. Did you make a turkey? No, I didn't make one. I had some turkey. I did a turkey. First time I've ever done it. Yeah. I did dressing. I did turkey. We did green beans mashed. We started a tradition this year, the family and I. And probably one of the most meaningful traditions ever. It was just such a great time. But, yeah, I didn't do the caretaker turkey where I basted it and I licked it and I stuffed it. No, I didn't do that. But it turned out really well, too. A little thyme and rosemary and a little sage. Oh, man. It's the holiday season. It's upon us. I'm still thankful, transitioning from Thanksgiving, thankful for you as my friend. You sent me a holiday gift, and I can't thank you enough. You were so kind to send me a taste of Kansas City, the streets of Kansas City. I sent you a pothole.
2:05
Sadly, I had to leave a bigger hole in its wake when I cut that out. It tastes like Travis Kelsey's gym shop. It tastes like Kansas City's disappointment.
2:17
Godzilla
game
Metallica Remasteredgame
Stranger Things Premiumgame
Harry Williamsperson
Steve Kordekperson
Roger Sharpperson
Steve Ritchieperson
Dennisperson
Robperson
David Van Nessperson
Barrels of Funcompany
Randyperson

high · Host stating 'We've sold all of them' in reference to Stranger Things Premium uptick, but 'accessories-wise, they are no longer making the UV kit for the Premium LE, which was surprising to me'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: George Gomez appeared on Kerry Hardy podcast to address community concerns about Spike 3 cabinet quality, providing technical justifications for design changes

    high · Extensive discussion of George's interview explaining cabinet construction philosophy, material continuity, and quality control improvements

  • ?

    product_launch: James Bond Premium marked as having 'no plans' for future production, though not formally vaulted; James Bond Pro planned for Q2 2026 but anticipated to be final run based on sales trends

    high · Host stating 'No plans on building any more James Bond Premium in the future' per latest Stern schedule; speculation that sales trends suggest Q2 2026 Pro run will also be last

  • ?

    product_concern: Community concern about Spike 3 cabinet cost-cutting and material quality sparked by visual differences in cabinet construction; hosts and George Gomez address concerns about MDF, glued seams, and cabinet integrity

    high · Kerry Hardy asking if Stern is becoming 'Ikea of pinball'; George Gomez extensive defense of material continuity since 2018 and structural design improvements; host noting 'pitchforks sold out at Home Depot and Lowe's'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern's 2026 production schedule includes new Cornerstone game announcement expected early January, with manufacturing beginning February and continuing through Q2

    medium · Host stating 'we're probably going to get that announcement of the next Stern Cornerstone game' in early January

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern has only 7 remaining shipping days in 2025; first two weeks of January 2026 will be inventory/regrouping with no production or limited shipping

    high · Host detailing specific shipping dates (Dec 15-19, 22, 29) and January shutdown schedule

    • That game's on later, and I'm just like, oh, God. Well, we had a good run of it. We had a good round. Oh, my God. That would be back in the 90s for me. That's right. Oh. You did have a good friend. But thank you. You sent a bunch of the legendary Kansas City barbecue. And you sent, like, it's like a half a beef or something that felt like. You sent pork. You sent. I think the guide says that's for 16 people. Holy. Shut in. You sent rice. Man, there was so much. It was there. Yeah. It was there. And for those that are familiar with Kansas City Barbecue, so I sent Joe's. Joe's Barbecue is my favorite. So I started with that. I mean, Gates and Arthur Bryant are probably the most famous Kansas City ones. Joe's usually tops out a lot of the list. I mean, we have a variety of really good places here, but that's my personal favorite. So I figured you'll probably like one or two of those meats. I love all the meats, man. I hope it gives me meat sweats. I'm going to be loving it. I'll be eating it on a plate and shitting in my bidet. Same time, man. I'll just set up shop in there. So thank you, Dennis, for all of that. I also wanted to say thank you for everyone who sent holiday Christmas cards. You know what? I'm envious of the people who do the Christmas cards. I never, like I didn't grow up with that culture to do a bunch of, maybe I was just isolated from it, but I don't do cards.
    3:43
    I do thank you cards like at work. I know some people, it really resonates with people, so I do that. But I don't do like holiday cards I have a friend every time Like if I send a gift She every year will send a thank you Handwritten thank you That's very sweet I'm envious of all the time And the Christmas card stuff And taking that picture If you spent less time doing Black Friday ads Oh, we're not getting into that Oh, okay I love you, Pinball You're the best industry ever I just so respect the way you do business and marketing and advertising. I think it's just great. And I'm so thankful for Timball and what it's become. And for gift cards. You're thankful for those, too. Love it. Yeah, so I wanted to say thanks for all the Christmas cards. And thanks to Randy. Randy sent me a special gift. He sent me screaming goat pillowcases. Really? You want to call a lot of those on the bed? I didn't. You didn't ask. It's happening. I'm going to surprise her with one. I wonder if it mimics the sound if I put it over her head.
    4:50
    I'm like, look, kids, the goat's screaming. Sorry, it's probably inappropriate, but the joke was way too good to not use. So thank you, Randy. I don't know. He's like, I ran across these and thought of you. I'm like, dude, we're running across. That is an interesting question. Pillow cases.
    5:11
    That's the beyond section of Bed, Bath, and Beyond. That's right. It's like that's from Spencer's shit right there. It's like dildo, screaming goat pillowcases, and like chewing gum that snaps your finger. David Van Ness, I've got to thank you and the Barrels team over there for sending just a plentiful, bountiful cornucopia of little snacks, like a basket. You know those little gift baskets full of like legit good stuff? Candies and crackers, and they always throw salami in there. Oh, we got to throw a salami into the park. One of my favorite things are the summer sausage baskets. I really like summer sausages with cheese and crackers. Living out Timbo is all up in that summer sausage.
    5:57
    So I'll give him that. But I can't thank you guys enough at Barrels. And other manufacturers, come on, the platters get you everywhere. Where are you at?
    6:08
    Yeah, so thank you, Vaness and the team over there, for being way too generous and kind. I have to say, one of the most meaningful was our buddy Rob. Yeah, Panther. I'm screaming as if he hasn't done enough to support us. The wonderful, beautiful Rob sent me a very high-end bourbon whiskey, and oh, boy. And he said, let's crack that bad boy open during the next Happy Hour Hangout, which is coming up, I believe, this week, right? Yes, this Wednesday. I already have it posted for the Nordman and Screaming Goat members, so they will have the link to that. And same time as usual, 8 p.m. Central. Same Nordman time, same Nordman channel. Rob, actually, he sent me something, too. He sent me, yes, a vintage Gruen Precision wristwatch.
    7:00
    I did not know this. The Gruen Precision is the model that Sean Connery wears in the first scene of Dr. No in the casino. No, that's it. It's the dress watch. And I think he wore it in several other things, too. But it's a Bond watch. So anyway, I would show it to you now. I'm wearing this watch right now. I'd show it to you. But actually, I have it at my watchmaker to be serviced so that it will run properly. But it was already working. It just needs some love. A little tune-up. I think he said the model's from the 1950s, he thinks, when he tried to date it. Man, high class, Rob. Dumb. Love that guy. So thank you all for that holiday cheer. I've got Mariah Carey in the background of our house 24 hours a day. We've got the tree up, but multiple trees at this point. We've got the exterior lighting. No, Dennis, I didn't. I didn't Clark Griswold it myself. We had somebody come in and do the lighting. Yeah, and I found out you won't even adjust a light fixture yourself. Yeah. These things are beneath you. Yeah, come on. So, yeah, happy holidays, everybody. Merry Christmas to everybody. I don't know if we won't get to say Merry Christmas to everybody between now and the next episode. No, this is the Christmas episode. But we'll have holiday cheer, and I know Flippin' Out Pinball likes to do holiday cheer on this show. We do so much. We did last year. We did the year before last. We're coin givers here at the Pinball Show, right, and Flippin' Out Pinball, my company. So last year we did like a huge holiday giveaway, if I remember correctly. We gave away stuff like $2,500 worth of goodies. This year, we can't just do something. We've got to up the game. So we're adding to that, and we're going to do what we're calling Season Shillings, a holiday giveaway. Pretty appropriate there. But we're going to have so many prizes to give away, valuing over $3,500, almost $4,000 worth of giveaway prizes. And what do these people have to do, Dennis? They don't have to pay anything. They just have to support us. It's pretty awesome. So here's the deal. If you guys want to win cool stuff, and the ratio of winning is pretty high, super simple. Make sure, first off, make sure you're subscribing, following the Pinball Show on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. Mainly Facebook, YouTube. So make sure to do that. Same with Flippin' Out Pinball. Make sure, I'd like to go in and see that you guys are following, especially Facebook and YouTube, Insta and all that. So go, while you're doing this, while you're listening, you can go ahead and do that. Click, click, click, doing all that. So that's all you've got to do. Also, sharing this episode would be fantastic. We're going to go through, later on in this episode, we've got a big sharing discussion. We've got other PennDistry news, Dennis, but we also have the Pinball Show Awards. That's new I thought I was finally free Of these award shows Finally And we pretty much give the most objective Takes on the best of For the year So it's our choices in the field really At this point Joking not joking So we're going to do the pinball show awards later on So if you share this episode You're letting people hear a lot of that And our takes on the run down of best of for the year So share the episode. That would be nice. But all we need you to do in YouTube, as you're watching this video, hopefully, or if not, if you're listening to the podcast, go to the YouTube video. And in the comments section, we want you to list your opinion of the best game of 2025. The best game of 2025. We're going to list out all of those games later on in this episode when we go through the best of. But go to the comments section and post that. And then just so we have verification that you did so, just snap a picture with your phone or something and email thepinballshow at gmail.com so that we know that you're entering in to win one of these prizes. So follow, like, subscribe, share the episode, take a picture of a comment that you have on the best game of 2025 on this video on YouTube, and send it to thepinballshow at gmail.com. That's pretty simple to win thousands of dollars worth of stuff. That's all I'm saying. Right? Yes. You kept it quite simple. And thank you. of course, for flipping out sponsoring because I didn't go and buy these things for people. Well, I thought about them. Yeah. I ain't singing a song. Thank you as well, Dennis, for continually doing this with me, you know, throughout the year. All right. So here are the goodies that we're giving away. I think last year we gave away like a $1,000 topper or something. Now, this year, $2,000 topper. There aren't any toppers under $2,000.
    11:51
    That would be my answer. It's kind of like you can't. It's running up the price. So, Mandalorian topper, the holographic topper, that thing is unbelievable. Really cool topper. We're going to be giving that away. Again, just for listening and supporting the show, you can win that. No charge. You can win that. We're also going to be giving away what I thought was one of the coolest damn armor sets ever, which was the Venom. The Venomized armor with the teeth and the tongue. It's freaking awesome. We're going to be giving away that. We're going to do a Russ Translight, Shooter Rods, John Wick Shooter Rod, Mandalorian Shooter Rod, Avengers Art Blades, Mandalorian Art Blades, a King Kong banner, Jurassic Park banner, Godfather banner, Jurassic Park player mat, flipping out t-shirts, and probably more. So if you want to win one of those items, all you've got to do is go to or email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com with a picture, a receipt, if you will, of proof that you commented. what's the best game of 2025 in our YouTube comments on this episode. Go ahead, please share the episode as well, and subscribe, follow Flippin' Out Pinball as well as the Pinball Show.
    12:58
    You ready to get into the holiday juice of pinball? Mm-hmm. Is it worth the squeeze? I guess we'll find out now. We got to start with certain pinball, right? We always start with certain pinball. That squeeze is made with MDF.
    13:10
    MDF? And new joists? Is that a right word, joist? Am I using these? Joint? Joyce? No, I meant with an S. With Joyce? Yeah, okay. I mean, look, I don't know. We'll get it.
    13:24
    Carpenter? That's what I was going to say, Zach. You're really going to appreciate this. Greatest carpenter ever, though. Look, I made like a cribbage board in eighth grade in shop class. Like, that's what I, but like, this is the pinball show. This is not Morning Wood with Zach and Dennis.
    13:42
    I thought you'd appreciate that one. I love Morning Wood. So, Stern Pinball in the news in a big way. We'll go through it. But first, production updates. Did you know, listener, there's only, depending on when you're listening to this, there's only seven more shipping days for Stern Pinball in 2025. Yeah, that's right. And that's got to get to your dealer. And then the dealer ships it out. So, only seven more shipping days. That is this week, December 15th through the 19th, 2025, as well as, again, December 22nd and December 29th. Again, your dealers flipping out pinball will be shipping maybe alternate days here. But if we're getting a game from CERN that we don't have in inventory, those last days left. The past couple of weeks over at CERN Pinball, they've been building the Walking Dead remastered premium and LEs alongside Jaws Pro and James Bond Premium. Interesting to note, Dennis, on the latest schedule, they said they have no plans on building any more James Bond Premium in the future. Oh, okay. Not formally vaulting, but they're just saying we could make them again, but at this point. So not on the schedule. No plans. We have no, not only not on the schedule, specifically saying we have no plans. Okay. But they're not quite at the point being willing to vault it. Correct. Okay. But I found that interesting. I know that James Bond Pro, they're making again in Q2, I believe, of 2026. But I would anticipate if sales go continue the way they have been, probably, for them to decide to halt the premiums going forward, that'll probably be theoretically the last run of James Bond Pro in Q2 as well. And that game's still getting love. We'll see what else we got here.
    15:28
    December. Okay, so this week, the rest of this week, they're building Jurassic Park Pro and those Joel's 50th anniversary, which is the final run. Right, right. January comes along, they're going to take that two-week. The first two weeks is going to be inventorying purposes. They regroup. The line is shut down completely. So we will not see anything be built the first two weeks over at Stern Pinball of January 2026. And also keep in mind, those are going to be some – it's not like those days are going to be shipping as well. Like there's some restrictions on when they're shipping the first two weeks of January too. We do know early January we're probably going to get that announcement of the next Stern Cornerstone game, which we're going to talk about a little bit more in length here in a minute. So that's going to come. Also in January, they're going to be building Metallica Remastered Premium and Stranger Things Premium, training up a little game with Stranger Things Premium with a new season out. We've sold all of them. But you had speculated that the season would trigger some purchasing. And it did. And oddly enough, though, accessories-wise, they are no longer making the UV kit for the Premium LE, which was surprising to me with this uptick in sales. But it is what it is.
    16:43
    And then also in, let's see, so that's January, February, they'll continue making that 2026 Cornerstone. And then March, for whatever reason, Godzilla Premium. April, Godzilla Pro. There's a lot of titles that are in the whole Q2 schedule and stuff. We're not going to list those out here now. All right, George Gomez, the legendary George Gomez, designer, innovator.
    17:05
    He's done a little bit of everything. Joyce expert. He is on the Mount Rushmore. I think he's on Pinball's Mount Rushmore. I really do. Do you think? He has four heads. I mean, I guess who's not on there? You're going old school for the Mount Rushmore. Well, I think it's, I mean, people are going to tell you Harry Williams, the father of modern pinball. You got to have Henry Williams on there.
    17:33
    You got to throw Steve Kordek off. You could if the signs weren't the most popular. He did a lot of them, but how many of them were the same? Zale, though. Zale brought Valley back from the gambling era, brought him into the light, into the respectability. Does Roger Sharp go on there? And then you've got the questions of Lawler and Steve Ritchie and their sheer amounts of volume produced. Alwyn, arguably greatest designer to ever live I mean it's tough because it's a team sport so there's so many like do you just do quarterbacks or are we what about these rules gurus that came up with all these really great rules it's tough it's really tough and George is a jack of all trades do we need people, is the Mount Rushmore the people that actually had their hand in a lot of pies not just one specialty pie because then I think you have a really good case for George But he's done so much for this industry through different companies. He's created so much iconic to what we know as pinball today. His name is just on so much. He's run so many creative teams inside of Connected. Man. I'll put it this way. You have a good argument. So you have a good argument. So the legendary George Gomez was on the Cary Hardy YouTube channel lately. So, Terry Hardy, and the reason for this is because when The Walking Dead Remastered came out, this was their new Spike 3 cabinet in its entirety. So, since our last episode, people have been able to see more detailed pictures and information about this new operating system that is Spike 3. And along with that, raised some eyebrows and some questions about the cabinet. because the cabinet is different inside and out.
    19:28
    People from a bird's eye view said, wait a minute, is this a cheaper cabinet? Are they saving money? Are they making cheaper product for us now? Is this going to hold up? And then all of the pitchforks sold out at Home Depot and Lowe's, and people said, let's kill the beast.
    19:47
    Oftentimes when people do that, they overshoot, And the truth is somewhere in between. So what George did is he wanted to go on a platform to objectively discuss what the new operating system is and what it's not. He wanted to clarify some of the frustrations voiced by the community. and I think it was a good idea to get some information out there and to answer questions. Would I have done it in this way? We can talk about that later.
    20:29
    So he goes on the Kerry Hardy podcast or the show and first off, sweet George. How old is George now? He's in his 60s. I'm not quite sure. He might be 70. Oh, he is 70. But here he is like 8, 9 o'clock at night at work in his office trying to get a webcam to work that wasn't working very well. Everybody's like, oh, it's a horrible look for sternage. I was like, yes, absolutely. Can't argue that. But, man, some of these Internet trolls, man, they're rough. That's the nature of trolling. Yes.
    21:11
    But at some point you've got to answer to that, right? You've got to answer to this. I don't know. I'm a turd in life, I think. I hope. I don't know. If you're just a keyboard warrior, do you have to answer?
    21:24
    I'd like to think maybe. Are you a veteran of the QWERTY wars, Zach? I don't know what that is or that reference. I'm sorry. Well, the listeners know. The trolliest ones, they know. They know. The reason I bring it up is not to defend Stern and some of you trolls. But the reason I bring it up is that was part of the talking point here. Part of the talking point was, damn, people in chat were freaking assholes. or, man, Stern's cheapening out, or they're going on Cary Hardy's show, and Cary Hardy is pretty negative overall when it comes to Stern on a lot of things. Was this live? Yes, it was live. Oh, okay. I haven't seen it, so. Yeah, it was just. I don't care about joists. I just care if the cabinet's going to fall apart in my hands or not. Well, do remember, Stern had some pretty janky cabinets in the past, so. We'll talk about that, yeah. We will talk about that. I remember seams coming apart. Oh, yeah. The Ghostbusters era, there was a lot of compliance. How soon they forget. Oh, the Whippersnappers, Zach, they weren't around in the DMD era. Yes, fire only burns for today.
    22:30
    So, yeah, so we went on. Terry Hardy, and we'll get into it. I'm just going to shoot through, rocket through this, and then we'll discuss it at the end. But Terry Hardy initially asking if Stern is turning into, quote, the Ikea of pinball and asking why they are making their cabinets cheaper. So that kind of led the discussion on the show. All right. Fair or unfair, it was a bold start to this interview. Also a bold start to the interview was the interviewer, Kerry, wearing a T-shirt that was fully mocking Stern Pinball, who he was interviewing. Again, a choice of taste there. Maybe one I would not, one I know I would not have taken. But needless to say Some people do them It is what it is So George designed the cabinet He designed this cabinet And the new expression cabinet lighting system For Spike 3 New back boxes, I found this interesting New back boxes fit the old cabinets So a lot of what George said He tried to bring into a new iteration They knew they were going to have a new operating system Redesign the cabinet To fix some of the issues that they'd seen in Spike 2 games or Spike 1 games or even LCD games or DMD games, etc., SAM games. So that's great. Everybody can agree on if you're going to make a new iteration, let's change all the things that were not working in the past, right?
    23:57
    Yeah, it makes sense. So that's what his claim was. Now, he wanted to minimize because a lot of people's complaints were you're cheapening out, you're making this shit cheaper, and the quality has degraded because of it. he wanted to focus on here are some of the things that we've done great. And also, I will refute some of your concerns about it being cheaper quality or it being cheaper in general with here's some facts to support that as well. So it is definitely what we as a hobby wanted to hear. Even if it wasn't content-wise what we wanted to hear from Stern, it was nice that we got to hear some answers. So I like that new back boxes can fit the old cabinets. That way they can move forward with one product that they can interchange. Weight distribution of a stern pinball machine has a unique feel, he said. And they wanted to retain that. Whenever you play with a different game, it might be heavier. They like their weight distribution of a stern pinball machine, and I agree. I do think, and we've talked about this ad nauseum, that something just feels right about a stern game.
    25:01
    But even in the past, like Jersey Jack games, they feel floatier. They feel like the flippers aren't as strong. Even every manufacturer, I think we can all agree, five, ten years ago, Dennis, everybody would have said gold standard stern pinball, right?
    25:16
    I think so. Yeah. And then people would say, like, oh, I like the Bally Williams, the best feel. So then you had companies trying to emulate that. But people didn't. Especially their flippers, yeah. They just, they like stern games. So, and I think a lot of that comes with the materials they use, And a lot of that comes with stuff like the weight distribution of the design of the cabinet and the components within that cabinet. I do feel like that. They nailed it. So they were trying to do that.
    25:44
    People complaining about, like, MDF. Like, they're using MDF and all this stuff now. That was the biggest complaint. So he said, we're using the same material on these games as we have since, like, 2018. So that kind of refutes the whole This is MDF This is like the Costco Star Wars thing George said no my god no He's like I'll admit That is of lower quality absolutely He said still fine and fit for the home But that's much lower quality He's like this is the same stuff It just looks different So you guys of course are reacting to that I think they probably could have done a better job Of getting in front of this for hobbies Sure, in retrospect, hindsight. But needless to say, it doesn't change the fact that they're using the same materials. He said, 2018. So he said, quote, every Godzilla in the world is built with this material.
    26:43
    Can't, I mean, okay. So then the person that's upset is like, okay, then what else do I need to focus on? It's cheaper and all of that. So he said, I mean, the difference is the melamine that they're using is a smoother melamine on the outer shell. so that they adhere to decals better. So maybe that's what some people are seeing. I noticed that when you take the lockdown bar off on these new ones, people like the joints butt up against one another rather than intermeshed with glue and all that. We'll talk about that. But that's one of the big differences. But what I noticed whenever they took down that lockdown bar is you've seen the wood and you've seen the different layers of the wood, kind of like a Williams game, right? You see all those little layers. Most manufacturers are like that. You see all the layers. and people are like, see, it's different now. Well, on the previous turns, when you lift up the lockdown bar, it's painted black, so it's hard to see which layer is which, so I think that's kind of throwing people, too, and George was talking about that. He discussed threaded inserts and molded pins, which hold the cabinet panels together. This is the big thing for people, Dennis, and I want to get your take on this. the old cabinets are glued. The seams are glued. They're jointed together. They're meshed together, which you said had problems as well. But they have glue components. They have brackets or like wood things that kind of are glued, and that's what holds everything together. Whereas this, there's no glue. These are components where they have these fasteners, and that's where I think people are saying like the Ikea furniture or put it together at home kind of furniture where you have these threaded inserts and molded pins that hold these cabinets together.
    28:30
    Do you think it's a good thing, bad thing? I don't know enough about wood to be knowledgeable on it. My one concern with using wood glues is temperature variation and what it might do to glue. So that would be my concern with the glue method is, yeah, I think glue can work very, very well in a climate-controlled situation. But if you expose it to extremes, I trust it less. But again, like, so I don't view glue as better than, I guess, Ikea little pegs and stuff. I just, I don't know. It's just, I've had issues with glue in the past where I've patched cabinets with glue and sometimes the glue job works well and sometimes it doesn't hold and I have to redo it. But I don't do a lot of this sort of work. So I'm really, I'm too ignorant of it to be useful, to give an opinion that means anything. No, but you nailed it. You brought up a point about the changes in temperature and climate and stuff like that. And he did say, yes, miter joints do not want to move. He said, remember some of the past design flaws and damage that they had. So that glue, he said, the dimensional control and stability of the new cabinet design is more dimensionally stable. It's not as much natural stressors at the joint. When wood cabinet expands and contracts, it does not mix well with a miter joint type of setup and a glue. Cabinet seams coming apart, et cetera. So that was his justification for this system. He said the modified locked miter joint with glue blocks is how they used to do that. Let's see. When asked if cabinet panels can be able to do that. However, George cannot tell. He said this is one of the biggest issues. He can't tell how much glue was used in the cabinet using that old method. The joint and integrity of the joint is then invisible to measure without, like, testing it and damaging it to see how well it was. He's like, so when these cabinets were getting done out of house, he don't know if they were using this much glue or this much glue. I thought they were out of house because I was curious why he couldn't know how much glue they applied. When he said even if they, you know, intend to, let's argue even if it was in-house, like once it's all done, he can't x-ray and see how much glue was on each cabinet. So if there are issues, he can't see that. Whereas these kind of things, he can go check with the tool right now and see how tight they are, if they're the gauge of tightness, if they're supposed to be the strength and all that. He's like, it was just a measurement that we couldn't control later on. I just assumed that if they were building them in-house, that there were instructions for their work line crew about how much glue you apply. So I thought they at least could approximate how much was used. He also said that prior, when they're shipping these cabinets to them, they're shipping a lot of air. When they're already pre-built, it's very expensive to ship empty cabinets. So he said that was another thing. Now they control the assembly and the quality control of the cabinet construction. So if there are issues with the cabinet now, they can figure out what in the hell it is. They're done in-house there. He did say the metal braces in four locations of the cabinet, primary support of the cabinet. So there's like these metal bars four places in the cabinet because it used to have like a wood bar or something. Yes. People like that tray thing for the coin box. But he said there's four of these panels now, or four of these.
    32:06
    They're 16-gauge steel. They pass all the drop tests, structural tests, but it's in no way like the home edition cabinet is designed. But that's how this cabinet is put together, with these metal braces in four locations of the cabinet. They're the primary support of the cabinet. And then you have these threaded inserts and molded pins to hold all the panels together. The good thing is, theoretically, if something damages one of the cabinet panels, they could be replaced.
    32:35
    Before, you're replacing the whole cabinet. There's no – and then you're gutting. I always have people like, oh, I gouged one of my sides of my cabinet. Can I just get an empty cabinet? It's like, that's not easy. That's not even really – it'd be so expensive. then you have to gut everything, all the ground there's so much stuff all the hardware, they're not going to pre-assemble all that and send it out it's a mess, but theoretically it's still probably not fun but if you needed to take a side off of a cabinet you could do it a hell of a lot easier from a shipping perspective and as a distributor oh my gosh this would be phenomenal but I caveat that viewer because I still don't think it's going to be an easy process. Easier, sure, but I'm hesitant to think that it's still to the level that a general hobbyist could or even should have to do. So you don't think people are going to take off the sides of their cabinets to apply decals or do, oh, I'm going to do my interior blades by taking the side off and doing that with it. Put it on the carousel and And, yeah, I still think it's too much. But, like, what we noticed in shipping is if these get banged around a little bit, those joints, that's where you get, I remember, Ghostbusters. Like, the detail would rip because you've seen the wood separate and rip, and then everybody's freaking out. They're going to have these corner brackets, and everybody's putting in corner brackets and all that shit. And then one of the most faulty points, for whatever reason, on the previous cabinet was when they shipped, it's the piece of wood that is in between. It's on the bottom of the cabinet, not the bottom of the cabinet. I'm thinking about a back box, and I'm thinking of a base cabinet. So it's on the top of the base cabinet in between the head and the top of the cabinet. So there's like this brace that goes across where all the wires go from the head in. that would always be susceptible to separating from the cabinet. And there was just no easy way to replace that. You could put some glue and clamp that thing. But, of course, people don't want to do that. That's a pain in the ass. And they're worried about it compromising the integrity of the cabinet. So they're like, no, I want a new game. And then we'd have to repair it ourselves as is. So that's always been a point of, like, issue right there. This design, I could be wrong, but it does look like there are some threaded insert points and molded pins that you could take that top off and replace it in its entirety. Or at least it gives some, because it's not glued, it gives some move that you can move it. But I don't know. Only time will tell on that. I love that. I like when people set traps in social communication things. Is I going to do that? Guilty. And I just think it's an intellectual thing to do. Like when you know you're going to be discussing something with someone and you know what their thought is going to be, so you plant a little thing to where if they take that path, you have a data for that. So he planted a little trap for Carrie and Carrie. Hook, line, sinker, walked right into it. When he was like, everybody's, you know, a lot of people complain about these cabinets and stuff. Fine, Carrie, what's a, like magic wand, what's the best pinball cabinet? let's start there. What's the best cabinet? And of course, Kerry said, what most of us would say, oh, the 90s Valley Williams cabinets, the Williams cabinet. And George said, ah, gotcha. No, he didn't. He said, yes. He's like, I thought you'd say that. He was like, so I had Keith Elwin pull his Congo from his office and put it in my office. Let's go take a look at it. And they looked at it and he was like, you want to know something wild is, as much shit as we're getting for this, our new design here. He said, with the exception of the front panel on the cabinet, on this Williams cabinet, and the wood under the head, those are the only two different pieces. Other than that, the entire cabinet is MDF, the entire damn thing. So if the gold standard is what you're saying, is these Williams cabinets, they are primarily MDF. So can we put to rest that the material is what you're angry about? Like if you're upset about the way it's put together, fine. But you cannot refute the fact that, you know, you're complaining about something that you're also in the same breath saying you love. So throw us a bone here. Like let's find some logic. Sturm Pinball Let's see New cabinet rails were shown To be removed without messing with The hinge and everything I love this For anybody out there that has replaced Dennis have you ever replaced any of these? No So even on Bally Williams stuff it can be a monster To replace the rails Usually because they use glue Under those rails And trying to get like a putty nut And it bends the rails It sucks But newer manufacturers, for the most part, they might use some double-sided tape just so it stays But they're hitting a couple points with screws is what assembles these things But they're much easier than games of old But with this, it's still kind of a pain because the hinges overlap And then to get to the, there's like this little pin, sorry to bore you viewers But there's like a little black pin, a one-headed pin you got to get from the inside and the inside But you've got to do that with the hinge down, so you've got to then fold the head kind of and then try to. It's a pain. But with these new ones on Spike 3, with the hinge and head still intact, you remove a couple screws. Boom. The whole thing comes off without having to move the head at all. That's pretty genius. I really, really like that. So he showed off that. And it also makes it easier for these new armor accessories that have, like, the lights in them, like Walking Dead. to install. So a lot of the stuff is ease of installation for accessories and for the homeowner. Because he said 70% of the pinball market is homeowners. That's where they're going. I would argue maybe even higher than that, but you got to keep that operator market alive.
    39:06
    But I think probably even higher than 70%. All right. So that was cool. What else do we have? George is paraphrasing here. He said, if we're going to need to design a new cabinet, why wouldn't I do so to improve upon all the past inconsistencies? The new cabinet cost is a wash, he claims, versus the previous. So the whole cost savings argument, just not valid. Again, we're taking him in his word there. We don't know. Overall, terrific interview about the cabinet stuff. There was some additional information that is noteworthy here. he said that Jack Danger and George Gomez are the co-designing the next Stern game. Coming up here in a couple weeks, we got the collaboration there. Jack did most of the conceptual work and George finished and brought home the project. So he said when referencing whether we see another George game he said yeah here in a couple weeks you going to see it So it sounded like for whatever reason Jack Danger is no longer a designer It sounded like that point of, like where that point was, was before any of the design stuff came to realization. It was more, it sounded like Jack started with the conceptual stuff, And then before shit started getting cut and white-wooded, that's when he changed positions at Stern. So George and team went in there. So it sounds like, honestly, it sounds like a George Gomez game to me with the ideas of Jack Danger and George Gomez, which sign me up, please. That sounds good to me. because, as you viewers know, I'm a huge fan of the previous two Jack Danger games. I think they're some of the best games layouts ever made and toys ever made. So, yeah, if we're going to get that with the expertise of George Gomez,
    41:06
    yep, let's do that as much as possible. And when Terry was asking, like, somebody in chat saying, is your next game Transformers or Pokemon? I know you won't answer, but I'll just do the justice of saying it. And he was like, no, I answered it. It's one of them. So, wow, okay. So it sounds like we've got Pokemon coming up with Jack Danger and George Gomez.
    41:30
    What do you think about that? It's a great theme. I think the game will do very, very well. I'm a little, I mean, if your take is right, and it's, I don't know what to think of a game where ideas are from one person but the design is someone else. I guess overall it sounds comforting in the sense that I think I hate design by committee. I think most of the time it comes off worse than a solo created vision. But I think if you're someone who's handling all the mechanical designing, you probably avoid the worst of that. So it sounds like it has interesting potential. I don't know if George is going to be as zany, or for lack of a better word, or Gottlieby as Jack is willing to be, though. Risky? Yeah. Well, I don't know if I want to necessarily say risky. It's risky in the sense that I feel like Jack's designs felt risky because they were just different than everything else Stern was doing. The Danger Room on Uncanny X-Men is risky. But, like, these concepts were done in pinball before, so it wasn't like he was trying, oh, this idea just, like, They did it in the 90s and it flopped. It was like, no, it was done, but it was done by a lesser known manufacturer.
    42:45
    And so people didn't, you know, and he fixed the stuff from those game ideas that didn't work very well. So, yeah, I think it's okay to say risky. I just, I don't want to make it like, it's not like Jack's games were, if anything, they were fairly longer players, or at least Foo Fighters was. It wasn't like they were dangerous in that regard or anything. I don't know. But zanier. I just view him as a zanier.
    43:11
    He's not been ingrained with this Data East or Bally Williams approach of, like, this is how layouts are supposed to be. He was willing to be more creative in that regard.
    43:22
    And I think it resonated with people. So I wonder if we've lost that at this point. I think we have, quite frankly, but we'll see. But we'll talk in another next episode or the one following where we give our predictions for 2026. And I think Stern, as much as like, I know Pepperidge Farm members, and then the member berries and stuff. But maybe I've been in this industry and hobby too long, or long enough, I should say. I get to day fix Gold's coin. I've been in it long enough to realize how things work. and whenever I see everybody start jumping on these bandwagons, like, oh, they're the best. Right now it's like, oh, Spooky's the best. Beryl's the best. Stern's shit. Like, I know. I've been through the waxes and the wanes. I know how these things work. So I don't get as hot and heavy and heated as quickly because I still know who Stern Pinball is and what they're capable of. We talked about that on the last episode. Got a little shit for it. But Stern will be completely fine in 2026. My prediction will be that they will sell more games in 2026 than 2025. And if that seems like a stretch to everybody, I'd say, well, go read the forums and go read the social medias because everybody says that, you know, they continue to implode and they're tanking and they're going down. No, I'm saying they're going up, up, up. That's what I'm saying. Just rumors alone, if you take what 2025 produced from Stern Pinball and you compare it to even what the rumors would be in 2026, it's going to be an even better year for Stern Pinball. So I don't forget that what Stern is comprised of, and for better or worse, what they're able to bring to the market. So everybody else can jump on the bandwagons. Only thing I'd ask Stern to do, hey, Stern, Zach here, one of your leading dealers. All I say is, you know, just you remember. You don't forget. Don't forget. List them out if you need to as reminders. Everybody who is shitting on you right now, don't forget. Don't support, reinforce. Don't lean into. Don't give as much attention to all of those who are actively trying to shit on you. Some of them are doing it just for their own gain. So all I'm saying is a little self-respect Write a list, remember it So that when the day comes when you are on top again And you create a game that everybody wants because it's coming Just, you know, don't remember or don't forget Is that, what's that? That was a shilly? Was that a shilly? In a cryptic way, sure Was it? A cryptic shilly?
    46:20
    I wouldn't describe it as shilly Are you a human? Press all the bicycles Hey, yeah, I don't know how to describe encouraging a brand to go on a revenge tour.
    46:29
    I will, baby. Never forget. No, no, surely wouldn't be the word I'd use for it, but supportive. I don't know. Conscientious, self-aware, logical. I can keep going. I'm done. So, yeah, just don't forget.
    46:47
    Stern has a Pokemon with George Gomez and Jack Danger. Come on. I don't even care about Pokemon. But the theme is like, the theme is cool to me like King Kong or Godzilla. Like, I don't care about them.
    47:03
    But that's cool. It's iconic to have in the game room. I'm good with that. Well, do you think people will be okay with it if there's not a surprise Pikachu that will eat the ball?
    47:13
    Pikachu? Yeah, maybe. Does Pikachu need to eat the ball? I don't know. I'm sure that the community has decided it needs to do something. We always find a way for there to be magnets in games. Nothing better than Pikachu's little electrification. But they never put magnets. Nobody ever wants to put magnets. Whatever. Okay, what else we got here? Oh, they said, Kerry was asking about next remastered game. Like, are we going to see that towards Q3, Q4 of 2026, just like we have the last couple years? He said, I mean, yeah, it's a good possibility. Nothing guaranteed due to planning, licensing, all that stuff. Remasters. He also said approximately 70% of the work and resources taken of that of a new Cornerstone game. So it still takes a lot of time, effort, resources, money, and all of that. And, of course, are Tron or Lord of the Rings ever going to happen, or are they off the table? He said, no, guys, we're trying. We're working on doing what we can. We know what you want.
    48:10
    He also said a little nugget in there nobody's taken notice of, but I'm putting it to our next story or next manufacturer. He said there are some limits to what they're going to do. They're not going to pay $10 million on a license.
    48:23
    Okay. So he put the limit there. I don't like that. I don't like to limit myself. So I don't like putting we won't pay $10 million on a license because why not?
    48:41
    Why not? They feel like they're getting gouged at that point. Yeah, generally speaking. But if the deal made sense, there's no deal too expensive if all the components of said deal make sense. So I wouldn't write that out. Do you ever see a $10 million license working financially in pinball? I don't know. With enough inflation eventually, sure.
    49:04
    Eventually, $10 million won't be. Like there was a time where I told myself I would never spend over $5,000 on a pinball machine. That was back when pinball machines were under $5,000. and that standard is not held by me now. Those goalposts moved. Yeah, that's true. Sure. No, eventually I can see it happen. When asked about why some manufacturer, why can they sell games for like $2,000 less than you guys at Skrillex? Yeah.
    49:31
    It is hard to argue against like the pinball evil deads and Beetlejuices. It's because the economy of scale is on Stern's side. Like, they should be able to produce better, equal quality for less money. All things being equal, they should be able to do it. His response was, quote, some competitors exist to get by.
    49:53
    He said, well, you know, they exist to run long-term companies, certain pinball. I can see that both ways there. I see what he's saying, and I see what he's saying. I think that's good and bad As the hobbyist who's watching this show That's good and bad He's saying That works for so long Until it doesn't work anymore And that's why you see Manufacturers come and go Stern Pimble has been here for decades But he's also saying that To say It's like an out He gives them an out We've got a big machine that we're running here If we have to make thousands of pinball machines a year, it's just part of what we can do. There are limitations. When you get so big, there are some limitations on what you can build and how fast you can do everything and what you can put into a product. And the shareholders, what they need to want to continue doing this versus what a family-operated system. So I get it. How do you feel about that? Do you think that him being crafty or do you think it's him being honest somewhere in between? Well, I, you know, I don't think he he has a good sense of what goes into cost wise bill of materials for a machine. That means that he also probably isn't particularly privy to exactly what the books look like on other companies. So he's being speculative as well to to an extent. But I do think my take is, yes, at least for some manufacturers, There are probably some that aren't charging as much as they quote unquote should from a proper profitability angle. Like if the idea is like, I don't know, like one example I've heard is that a product should be at least three X as much as it costs all in everything above line, below line, everything that takes to make that product. You should put price at least three X or maybe three X is the goal. So are they are some of these manufacturers doing three X? Maybe not. Maybe they're using tighter margins. I don't know if it's because they want to just get by or they're just not very savvy and they don't know what the market can bear or they're worried the market can't bear what would be a proper amount. So they're pricing based off of what the market will endure. There are a lot of factors that could go into it. So I do think that for Stern, because they're beholden to investors, obviously they need to make those investors money. And so there's that pressure that exists on top of anything else they might do. But all that being said, Stern's held the line on price increases for quite a while now. So they've currently been mindful of what they think the market will bear. So I haven't seen their behavior be really any different than some other companies. It's just, I don't know. I think when you start getting into, like, the premium Stern price, the biggest problem that they're running into lately, and maybe that's where some of this online discussion of, oh, Stern's dying, Stern's failing, da-da-da-da, coming from is, like, to me, 2025 was the year of the sculpt. It feels like these other manufacturers have realized we can beat Stern at their own game if we make our world under glass components. And I'm not even talking the interactive features. The stuff in it feels sculpted and tangible. It feels more premium than booty right and just what we'll come across as cost-cutting measures. I think that's part of where that's coming from. And I'm not sure, actually, that maybe those pieces aren't any more expensive, but Stern's used to doing business a certain way. So they've still just continued to do it under that approach. Or that's just what's necessary because Stern needs to keep that BOM at a certain point so that the investors make a certain amount of money off of each particular game. So I don't know. Yeah, that's really good takes all around. I do know that, like, the moldings, that is a pressure point on making a pinball machine. And I've learned enough behind the scenes that, like, if you can use plastics more, like the flat plastics, a lot safer bet. Because some of the delays and, like, machines being ready are coming out some damn molded toys. They all come from China. And there's always, like, it's always the freaking hold up on so much stuff. So there are some companies that could be getting lucky. They could be getting good rolls there. And they're just sterns like, we've been there before, and we just don't want to take that risk. I don't know. And I think you've seen some that, to mixed results, have been like, okay, we're going to – let's split the difference, and we'll do 3D printed instead of molded. Yeah. But as 3D print technology improves, I do expect we will see another – a second breath of doing 3D print where it's not going to be – right now, it's seen very derogatory. they look at all these mods you put in it's all a bunch of 3D printed crap that the moment the ball hits any of it because none of it's designed to be interacted with the air ball takes out your toy because it's cheap it's cheaply made but it avoids all these production issues and investments that are necessary to do molded as the quality of that technology improves I think we'll start to see I think that's where Stern will probably shift once they feel like I don't know, resin printing or whatever is going to get them a quality that's close enough to molding that it would be seen as acceptable for a commercial product. Yeah, I think we're getting there. That's my guess. I think you nailed it, yeah. Absolutely. So go listen and go watch the Kerry Hardy interview. Overall, very good. Again, interesting, just an interesting dynamic. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't talk about it. Just an interesting dynamic between the interviewer and the interviewee. And just I found it interesting, and I'm sure not a lot of people will discuss that, but I try to be objective and cover everything as much as I can and just some – just I don't know. Just interesting.
    56:09
    You have to watch it and let me know, Dennis. New accessories released for the Uncanny X-Men and The Walking Dead remastered. That's pretty quick for The Walking Dead. Yeah. That's nice. So they had the usual suspects The toppers and all that stuff The only thing that is coming soon For whatever reason the Uncanny X-Men shooter knob Hasn't been released yet And sounds like an illuminated shooter knob And then the speaker Expression speaker lighting system for The Walking Dead which would be Basically the general Spike 3 speaker lighting Coming soon as well I did like the Walking Dead Was the topper, the three head topper But I like that they expanded upon it Where they made it larger I always thought it needed to be larger From the original run of those Back in 2014 or whenever that game came out Interactive lighting is a lot better Moldings look a lot better So overall it's just a dynamite topper It's going to be a great seller I even like the shooter rod The little head that's got the lighting in it And the colors and stuff I do like that I want to do a real quick explanation that it can get confusing, these accessories now, viewer, for Stern, because they're different than what the expression lighting was on Spike 2 stuff. So in a nutshell, I'll try to break it down for you. If you go to, like, flippingoutpinball.com and see all the different, it can be confusing, so many different options now, because there's, like, armor with integrated expression lighting, but then you've got to buy the expression lighting by itself. Expression cabinet lighting on John Wick, Metallica, and all that, that came with, like, art blades built into it, right? But not now. Now it's different. Now it's separate, so the Art Blades are separate from the Expression Layout. So, in a nutshell, on Spike 3 games moving forward, everything is just going to be so much easier to install and to decide what you want. You're not forced into things. For example, we'll use the example of John Wick. John Wick, if you wanted Art Blades on your John Wick Premium, you couldn't get them, and don't sell them, because you had to buy the expression cabinet lighting, which also came with art blades that you put on, because the expression cabinet lighting, like, went around where the art blade would be kind of things, so they integrated it all into the art blades and the expression lighting. So they figured on Stern 3, Spike 3, some people may just want art blades. Maybe they don't want the expression lighting. So they separated that. You can now buy just the art blades, and the art blades run right under where the expression lighting bar is going to be on the inside of that cabinet. Does that make sense to us? I think so. So you can have an expression lighting inside your game without art blades. Or you can have art blades without expression lighting. Or you can have them both, like that comes on the LEs. But you don't have to have them. The same goes for the armor. Remember, we see the bullet armor, the laser cut. Somebody corrected me. It's not die cut. It's laser cut. Okay. I learned. Thank you. Laser cut the bullets up the playfield, Star Trek LE-esque. So you can buy the armor with those laser cut bullets if you want to. You don't have to have lights behind them like they do on the LA. You can just buy the armor. Or if you want the lighting, you can now buy the, they call it the side armor expression lighting system. So they're separate. So you can add the lighting behind the bullets too. Technically, you can have the lighting without the armor, but it would make no sense because the lighting would be shining behind a solid armor. So that wouldn't make sense, but it would work. It would work.
    59:55
    So that's – I was trying to explain it to customers. They're like, well, what do I have to buy? Do I have to buy this? No, here's how it works. So that's how it works. And then speaker lighting coming soon. The X-Men topper. You see with the billboards that switches and the three different displays and UV lights? Did you see that? They call it like an 80s-esque billboard thing. Yeah. Which I thought was kind of weird, personally. I thought it was clever, given the era it's set in. What I noticed, I installed that one on my game because I have Uncanny in my lineup, my personal lineup, and I have King Kong in my lineup. So I added the King Kong topper, too. They're finally starting to ship. They had a parts issue, so those are now finally starting to ship. I got to say, the newer Stern stuff, even if people poo-poo on it, Like, oh, it's just the lighting alone on the new stern toppers is so much more dynamic than, like, Guardians or, like, Deadpool, like, single yellow lights. It's just it really transforms the game room just with the lighting alone. So if the mechanisms are kind of meh to a lot of people, that was the biggest complaint. Like, King Kong, they were like, oh, they've got a King Kong up top there. What do I care about a King Kong motorized up top there? I disagree, but let's say you agree with that. The marquee lighting, the bulbs around that marquee are freaking phenomenal. That damn thing lights up because it's got all these RGB lights. Same thing with the Uncanny X-Men topper. Freaking UV shining everywhere. It's badass. So the lighting, it sticks out like when you see it with all the other older toppers and you see these new lighting toppers. It's freaking cool. It is cool. Kind of like everybody crapped on 007 James Bond topper, And I'm like, I'm telling you all, that topper is freaking legit. And it is. Let's talk about Jersey Jack pinball. JP for the win is out. No more to win. No, just not there. JP to lose.
    61:53
    Such a stupid joke. So, yeah, he's gone. He's out as lead animator. He went to Dutch pinball. The freaky deaky Dutch. I think he's from over there. Sure, but scales of the two companies are very different.
    62:12
    Well, Wolf gets to see his artwork every decade. So that's something. Also, Jesper Abels, I believe, followed him. He's gone, too. That was the AI guy. What's going on at JJP? I don't know. Chicken or the egg. But I don't know. So, Jack Guarneri, the founder of Jersey Jack Pinball, he was on Canadian Pinball Podcast. He had a stream and was an automated dealer. And Jack was there and did an interview with him.
    62:44
    And Jack kind of insinuated that he's not on the next project, Jersey Jack, but JP could be contracted to come in for a future game.
    62:55
    So, you know. So, no, he's gone. But he's gone. Yeah. The good news is that the animating crew over at Jersey Jack, it's fine, guys. Like the person that's doing it. We'll be in the Jacksonville. Well, it's fine. It's fine.
    63:14
    But, yeah, it'll be fine. It's no JP to win, though. Come on. Sonic the Hedgehog. Are we going to see good animations? We'll see. Also, on this interview with Jack Ranieri, talked about licensing. Some of this stuff is very interesting to me. Talked about the Matrix. Remember, that was like a rumor thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Our pinball show, we kept telling y'all, it's not going to happen with the Matrix.
    63:41
    I have to remind people in retrospect. It was a while ago. It's like the hot topic. Whatever somebody's rumoring, it's like everybody gives them the credit. It's like, why didn't the credit come to the people that are accurate? That's all. We've been saying, no, it's not going to happen. And that's what Jack said. He said, look, we had it. We had the license for the Matrix, but there's nothing in it. It's just movie posters. There's no assets. So we scrapped it. Like, you can't now. We ain't doing it.
    64:09
    So Pinball Brothers might take it. Come on. That's good. That hasn't stopped some brands before.
    64:23
    Poster, we can make this work. Zoom in on Morpheus's sunglasses That's all you get to see The red pillow, the blue pillow That's it I have a hard time ever Ever like Saying That's it The Matrix can't be done Because I heard that shit with Back to the Future So I just, I can't anymore When somebody says something can't be done To me it's like, well no it can't be done today But we're going to keep pushing And there's got to be a dollar amount. There's got to be.
    64:58
    It's not that. No, you're wrong. You're wrong on that. I don't like to create limits for myself. I understand that, but some of the things are just outside of your control. No. Yeah.
    65:11
    Okay. So that's like when I've had manufacturers, arcade manufacturers do this. I'll be open and honest with it. And I had to be like, I had to be getting my products from another dealer. There's like rungs. It's like this antiquated old thing. And I'm like, wait, why are they getting cut of my hard work? Like, what the hell are they doing? And they're like, well, that's just the way the system is. And I'm like, okay, well, all right. What do I need to do to be my own damn dealer? Why do I have to be a sub dealer under another thing? And they were like, well, we're just not adding dealers. I'm like, okay, well, hypothetically, what if I sold, is there a number of units I need to sell that would surpass all the other dealers that I could be my own dealer? He said, there is not a number that you could sell that we would add you as a dealer. So to me, I at least found where the ceiling was. But then my brain said, oh, okay, you're just bad at business. You just aren't good at business then. So you're saying you have no motivation, no goals to sell our product for the future. You can't grow in any way, sense, or form. And even if you outperform everybody in our entire system, we still will not allow you to sell the product. Like, that's just ignorance. Bad business. So at least I know where the ceiling is on that. I understand that. Okay, $500 million. Let's start with that. Would that not get it done? And they say, well, I mean, yeah, okay. So it's not a never. Let's just see. Well, no. So let's see where it is. You're doing two different things. There's that example, and there's the example of the bad at business example. So let me – I'll give you one. If they said $5 billion, I wouldn't get it done. Let me do this one, and let's just say it's totally – I'm acknowledging this is made up. Do not – so this is not true. I do not know anything about this. Let me just make it really clear. Let us say that Tom Hanks despised pinball. Tom Cruise. No, I want Hanks because he didn't let his face be on Apollo 13. Oh, poor thing. So Tom Hanks, let's say so much so that when he passes, his estate will even have instructions. They are to never license him on a pinball machine. And you want to do a new Apollo with him or you want to do the life of Tom Hanks or you want to do Turner and Hoots or whatever. Horse dump-ish. It is not possible for you to bullshit your way into getting it. There are things like that in life. You cannot will yourself to victory. I agree. You cannot draw upon your own life. This is not a shounen jump anime. You cannot draw upon your own life force and just make you win at everything as long as you try harder than the other person. There are some instances where you will lose, and all you have done is waste your own time and their time.
    68:04
    So that is my point, that it is possible for there to be nothing. if something out there absolutely just adamantly says, I will not be involved with this.
    68:15
    And you can say that's because Tom Hanks is bad at business. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't change the reality that you will never have him. That's a dead end. Yes. So I want to say, the nature, like with Back to the Future, it's not just, you know, it hasn't just been Back to the Future. It's like, can you win over the movie? Can you win over Michael J. Fox? Can you win over Christopher Lloyd? Like, you know how complicated it is with the historic stuff in particular because everyone controls their own thing. Sometimes there is a, like, alien or aliens. There is a way to get Sigourney Weaver. You just need to throw enough money at the problem. But, like, in the case with Predator, that might be one where in the future it could be. But it's not Arnold Schwarzenegger that's the problem. It's the multiple license holders. It's a confusing mess of legality. And that might never get sorted out. Now, hypothetically, maybe you could wait until it's in the public domain. But since you would be probably dead by then, it's sort of irrelevant. You see? So that's my point. Yes. And I was going off of a lot of times what these manufacturers do. They don't get to, like, well, where is that ceiling? Where is that dead end? Right. They just give up before that. They give up before knowing what the number is. They give up before. It's like if it's not a packaged, easy little thing, they kind of just, well, what is available? So what do you got in the showroom? It's like, no, no. If you want the best things in life, sometimes take a little bit of, you know. And I don't disagree with that, except I will say with so many great possible licenses that haven't even ever been done in pinball, should we really like if it's a 95% license versus a 94.5% popularity maybe if it's like 10 times easier to do than 94.5 maybe we should just for efficiency sake move on and not like shucks G.I. Joe is just a little too hard to do let's go ahead and do Gen 1 Transformers like that like okay it's just it's easier why why obsess over this one thing that we know is very popular and would do very well for us, but there's so many other things that could sell well enough. Is that really smart business to be obsessive over Back to the Future when you could have some other nostalgic 1980s thing like Die Hard? Like if Die Hard was easy and Back to the Future is hard, why not do Die Hard?
    70:45
    Why not both on that? But, yeah, I get what you're saying. That's just what I mean. it's not always worth the, like, was Harry Potter worth the squeeze? For JJP, I would think the answer is yes, given what all has happened with it. And I probably would have said, that's one you should push really, really hard on. Is Matrix?
    71:05
    I think so. I don't think, it's not a Harry Potter, though, so it's not as easy of an answer to me. It's a big one. It is. I just want to know where my boundaries are. I'd want to know. It's like when somebody says, you know, like they're like, hey, that half white water you got, like how much is that? I'm like, oh, I'm not selling it. Well, yeah, but how much is it? Let's say you were to sell it. I get a lot of people in those situations like, oh, it's not for sale. Like it is not for sale at all. I would just, I would rather, I don't like limits. I don't like these vague boundaries. I like strict boundaries. Like, okay, $100 million. Well, fuck, I'm going to sell it for $100 million. Okay. That makes more sense to me. See, my brain just, I don't know why my brain does that. My brain does not like those vague, like, no, there's no situation. I'm like, well, that's false. That's illogical. There are situations. It's just not ones you think I'll take. Okay. Right.
    72:05
    I'd like to know what that is. Well, yeah, but again, it's sort of like, I don't know. We're going down rabbit holes. So I've had a lot of people that have contacted me about hoops, and my answer is it's not for sale. It's not for sale. Now, I've had some say, just go in and say, hey, would you take X amount for hoops, which is way more than I think hoops is honestly worth.
    72:25
    But one, I said no because I wasn't trying to sell it. And two, I always find it very interesting that one would presume to even reach out to me to try and buy something I didn't list. Oh, I do that all the time. I figured you did. I don't get mad about it. I don't work that way.
    72:48
    So to me, it's very foreign to just reach out to someone. Hey, I looked at your collection and I saw you own Adam's family. I want to buy it. I think I want the stuff that people don't want. Like the reason that I want it is the same reason they don't want to sell it. I do the same with a house. Like if I wanted to buy a house, I would probably want to buy the houses that aren't for sale. because they're not for sale for a reason, because they're fucking awesome. So I would probably go up to the people. Like, instead of looking for for sale homes, I'd look for homes that I really like. And then I'd go up and I'd knock on their door and I'd say, you have a beautiful home. I love this home. I drive by it all the time. Like, I know it's not for sale. I'm not asking you to sell it. However, I'm asking you to sell it if you would like to sell it. Or please jot down my name. if you would ever go to sell this, I'll pay whatever the market is, if not better. So that's like the great things in life. Like you got to put yourself out there, I think. Kind of like hiring. If you find somebody that's really good at something and they're not looking to leave or anything, that's who you should be trying to get because they're like, when I say manufacturers, for a manufacturer that hasn't already went to Keith Elwin and said, hey, what does this scenario look like for you to make products on our team? I don't think they're doing their job. That's just how my brain works, and that's how I would run a company, for better or worse. Like, first day on the job, I'd say, hey, Keith, can you take a call? What does that scenario look like? Show me how stupid that scenario is and how I can't afford it because I don't have any money. At least I know then that I've already crossed that off the list. Otherwise, I don't know.
    74:31
    So go out there. Gentlemen, if you're single, go out there. Strike out. Ask out that chick. Don't think she's not going to go out with me. She's a 10 and I'm a 3. You never know. Maybe she's feeling 7-ish that night. What? I'm 7-ish. Sorry. All right.
    74:52
    I don't know where we went there. And what happens when your hobby becomes your career? Okay. Jack talked about Top Gun. They said, are you going to do Top Gun? Come on. So Steve Ritchie wants to do it. He's going to do it. He said, no, they're not going to do Top Gun. They wanted $15 million for Top Gun. They're not doing Top Gun. So that means Star won't do it because it's more than $10 million. That's where I've looped that. Yeah. It's interesting that these companies, they have this ceiling they've built for themselves on how much they'll spend on license. But $15 million, do the math there. That doesn't make sense for pinball. Like, that would be, I mean, let's just crunch the numbers here. Let's say you sell, how many Top Guns Steve Ritchie games can you sell to Dawson? 5,000 tops with JVP? I see now why you wanted to do Tom Cruise. Yeah. Or for my example, with Hanks.
    75:46
    Danger zone. All right, let's see, 15 million divided by 5,000 units. Yeah, that's peak 5,000 units if you're lucky. It's a $3,000 per game at 5,000 units just for the license alone. That's heavy. That's really, really heavy. But I'm not crossing the line. So you tell me, Zach, do you raise the price of the game by $3,000 or do you drop the bill of materials by $3,000? I don't drop the bill of materials. I figured you would. That's not what we do. That would be what I would do. Welcome to the single-level Top Gun experience. That's not what we do. But what I would rather probably do, instead of trying to sell 5,000 units, maybe I try to sell 1,000 units, and I make that licensing fee even more top-heavy per unit. Does that make sense? Because gamble, that's a gamble. Oh, that's a huge gamble. I mean, I'm not saying – you could be confident there are enough whales in the hobby. The question is, do the whales care enough about Top Gun to want to be whaled on that? That's $15,000 per machine at 1,000 units just for the license alone.
    77:02
    There's not a company out there that would do that. No, because it's not smart business. It may not be, but I'm not ruling that out like somebody rules out just at the number 15 million. That's my point. Well, some of us are more conservative than you. We live safely. I'm a very conservative business person, very conservative. but I don't know about $15,000 license fees on pinball being called conservative that's a tough one I'm not saying I do I'm saying I would call it aggressive like we're talking like honey badger levels of aggression I would spend an afternoon crunching some numbers and trying to I could see doing that that's what I'm saying I think my napkin map says that you're basically blowing your afternoon but hey if you didn't have anything else doing If you don't know and at the end of the day you then do know, I don't think that's wasting. Because knowing is half the battle. That's the most beautiful thing to do in life is not knowing something, spending some time, and then knowing definitively something. Okay. That's fair. They ask him about Ghostbusters. This is where I'm like. He's not afraid of ghosts. Here comes Jack the salesman. Remember when there was like some rumor that Ghostbusters, JGP had Ghostbusters? I was like, yes, I do. Ghostbusters. We told everyone. They ain't got that. Chris asked him, like, what are Ghostbusters? And Jack said, he acted like he just was not interested in making Ghostbusters. He even alluded to because it's been done already.
    78:33
    Like, wait a minute. That's absolutely adorable. Yeah. From the company that did Pirates of the Caribbean and Avatar. And, and, and, and, I mean, Hobbit, I mean, and, like, wait, wait, wait. You've done it before. Okay. So that tells me that either – it tells me a couple of things. It tells me that it's more like an insecurity, like I'm angry I couldn't get that thing because Stern has it or somebody has it. Or it tells me that as the lead licensing person, George Jack, I may lack knowledge of what people want. Neither scenario is good, I don't think. I'd probably rather it be the former, honestly. I'd rather be like I don't want ice cream He's got ice cream I don't want ice cream I want cake No you want ice cream Yeah I do want ice cream I do too But yeah Ghostbusters We're not interested I like honesty I would like A manufacturer to come out and be like Yeah absolutely Here's what I would be if I was in that position somebody asked me about ghostbusters and I knew I couldn't get it somebody else had I'd be like um absolutely I think it a dynamite license and I would love to have it absolutely love to have it unfortunately it just not available I already looked into it did my job and it not available Somebody else has it or it costs too much money or whatever it is but nope I think it fantastic Somebody going to do a great job but no I can do it Caddyshack. There's another one. They said it's a mess dealing with all the different states. Jack said it. Cha-cha? Cha-cha. Yeah, whether it's Chevy Chase, whether it's Rummy, whoever it is. That's where Juice is probably not worth the squeeze When you've got to deal with multiple groups To try and pull it all together That's a lot of work The hobbyist would be stuck saying We're waiting Spooky Pinball Production update on Evil Dead They're stripping around game 820 right now Spooky released game numbers to distributors for Beetlejuice All the dealers have all their numbers Of Beetlejuice Good Everybody knows their numbers Okay Barrels of Fun Pinball Really nice factory tour content by TNT Amusements And Grown Up Adjacent Channels They're selling about 40% of games direct They said Higher than I thought Agree Because Labyrinth wasn't that high Labyrinth was only like Not even 10% A little over 10% And then Dune I can see Dune maybe being that And Winchester I don't know what cut they took on Winchester, but Winchester is what, 525? Yeah. I would guess Barrel's probably, they're probably saying 40% because I bet they took 40% of that 525. Let's see what that is. 210 units, yeah, I can see that. And then probably another 100 and something went overseas. Let's say 125 went overseas. were at 335 or 190 domestically.
    81:50
    Yeah, I can see that. They're shipping roughly 7 to 10 games a day. Okay. Starting to ship Winchester this month. Not much time left this month. Just half a month. But there are a lot of down days where I would assume they're not going to be working. They originally said end October into November. Yeah, I know. It's behind. And, yeah, so it's coming. And it's special. It's worth the wait, I assure you. They likely will. They're going to shut down Doom production here sooner than later. They're going to cut. Not that they've made all that they said they were going to make, but for now, you know, and maybe never going back to it again. The window, maybe, in the future. But February, March is when they're going to dedicate, you know, full steam ahead on Winchester. So they're mixed line between January and February probably. I see March them fading out of that. So with that being said, I do anticipate them probably formally announcing that here soon. And Dune has been kind of a hot seller lately. So I can see that getting a little hairy of people trying to get in those orders. Because right now I'm backordered until February right now. We have a batch coming this month. We have a batch coming January. We have a batch coming in February. That's where my back orders result right now. If I put in a new order, I don't know if it would be February or March, so I'm not sure. Chicago Gaming Company, they're going to be running more Medieval Madness remake Merlins, as they said before, but we have more information on it now. They emailed dealers and said the game's features and pricing remain the same as they did for 2025 run. So pricing doesn't go up, and we know that it's the Merlin edition. Same thing. They're not adding anything to it. The run's going to be approximately, I think this is for public consumption. Sorry, Chicago Gaming. If it wasn't, you did not indicate that it was not for that. So the run's going to be approximately 500 units. I think they're probably going to do what I'm guessing they did on the first run, 1,000 units, so 500 overseas, or outside of the U.S., not overseas. It could be Canada. 500 for U.S., 500 non-U.S. Scheduled for Q2 of 2026.
    84:12
    Distributors are going to receive allocations in January, so we do not know yet. We did say that we can't pre-sell these things or we risk losing all of our stuff for doing so. All right. Let's see. Do not take orders until your allocation. Those found taking pre-orders will forfeit their allocation for this run or open to forfeit their allocation. They also announced that they're going to make the MMR upgrades like that topper and the RGB upgrade kit. So they're going to be doing those in Q3 of 2026, pre-ordering now. The pricing for these things has changed since the last time they were offered. Topper is $1,000 plus shipping, $500 for the RGB kit. as to whether they're making the Excel display again. They probably will, but they haven't announced that yet.
    85:03
    Okay. We're getting through this. All right. It's time, Dennis. It's time that we let people know what the best of 2025 was and what we're calling the Pinball Show Awards. Now, we did this last year. People liked it, and I think we were correct. We go back and look at all of those.
    85:26
    And who better to tell people than, you know, than to do this in tech? So here's what we're going to do. We're going to present our opinions on the best sound and music, call outs, animation display, lighting, art, toys, innovation, topper, theme, theme integration, rules, design and layout, launch, best launch, best accessory, best surprise overall, best high-end product, most improved from last year, and overall the best game. That's amazing I don't know your answers And you don't know mine So this is going to get interesting What we will say Is what we're going to do for you This episode of 186 here at the Pinball Show We're going to go above and beyond We're going to each give you Our top three of each category Yeah So the games of this year Include Evil Dead Remember we didn't include it last year So we're including it this year Dungeons and Dragons, The Tyrant's Eye, Portal, Merlin's Arcade, Dune, King Kong, Myth of Terror Island, Harry Potter, Predator. We're not including Jaws 50th Anniversary, and we're not including Medieval Madness Merlin. Star Wars, Fall of the Empire, Winchester Mystery House, The Walking Dead Remastered for some things. It's not eligible for Best Toys, Best Theme, Best Rules, or Best Designer Layout. And Beetlejuice. So the difference here, Dennis and viewer, is we've got two spooky games. We're throwing Beetlejuice in here because we need to catch up. Because if we're going to be doing this November thing every year, it needs to be in the discussion of when it's pertinent to what's now. It's November. It's not like this is December 20th. It's November they're launching this thing. They've given us all we probably need to know about Beetlejuice. But keep in mind, this isn't an exact science. Dennis and I have not played all these games. So this is just two wonderful content creators that are having fun creating content about what they think at this point in time is the best of the year. That's all. It's not written in stone.
    87:40
    But they're still correct. So we're going to do that. But we're going to do it on this episode, viewer top three. And then, if you want to know who we actually pick as the winner of each of those top three, you can reach your ad.com chat.
    87:56
    That's the finalist. Yes. Finalist will be announced. Do it. People are rolling their eyes. No, top three is good enough for most people. They're like, I sold my pitchfork after that cabinet discussion. I'm getting it back.
    88:12
    Menards might still have some. the Menards I see you in aisle 7 picking your nose get a Kleenex aisle 9 alright so we're going to give the top 3 of each this was not easy for me this was not, what about for you a pretty clear cut for you no, it took me longer than I thought it would myself as well, let's start with best sound and music I'll give you my top 3 But sound and music, this isn't call-outs. Right. So the sound, the sound effects, the music being played, a lot of good ones in there as I'm scanning through. Evil Dead sounded good. They all sound good. Was there any that didn't sound good? I mean, all of them sounded good. For me, though, the top three that stuck out were Beetlejuice, Dune, and Winchester Mystery House. Interesting. Those three stuck out sound-wise to me. I really liked just the new orchestration of Brady Hearn over there at Spooky with Beetlejuice. Second to none. Same with Winchester Mystery House, the guy that did that over there. Sorry, blanking on the pyramid thing guy.
    89:33
    I'm so sorry. But over at Barrels, fantastic work. Like those are the two people we're going to be talking about in sound moving forward in pinball. And I think he did some work with Dune as well. So that's where I was at. What about you, top three on best sound in music? I did have Dune on my list as well. But that's the only one we had shared. Because I also did Harry Potter and Star Wars.
    90:01
    Okay. Yeah, Star Wars was nicely done. Potter was just all around great package So I could see why you would lean on those So it's interesting I wonder if We're going to pick Dune as the winner They're going to have to tune in And find out They won't know What's their They're going to know now If they're going to go to patreon.com And they're going to sign up $10 Opt in Hang out with us Wednesday I'm going to crack open some whiskey And we're going to They don't $10 doesn't get them that level. That's an old man level. That doesn't get them that level. That's much. Have yourself an upgrade. Come on. Treat yourself for Christmas. Treat yourself a hot dog or a Patreon membership. That's right. That's a very expensive hot dog, though. That's like an all beef hot dog. I don't know. Based on the inflation of certain stuff. That's a stern dog.
    90:58
    I got my pitch workout. Best call outs. So the vocal Of Callouts Let's go with your top three Are there any boogers in there? Top three Anything bad? We don't have much Callouts in Beetlejuice at all There isn't No Walking Dead Remastered We got the original voices That was nice Dune became late They're there now Evil Dead, good call-outs. Dungeons and Dragons.
    91:36
    Isn't that Matt Mercer guy? It's a whole bunch, actually. They also had... Oh, yeah, they did. They had the whole group. Yeah, the Worf. Yes. Yeah. I liked Star Wars Follow the Empire with C-3PO. That was good. But what were your top three call-outs for 2025? Mine were Dungeons and Dragons. That's a good call. Portal. Oh. Okay. Sneaky. And Walking Dead Remastered. Ah!
    92:06
    Coral! Oh, wait a minute. Coral. Michelle and... Merle! Yeah, Merle. God. All right, so we did have one the same. Was it Walking Dead?
    92:21
    No. Oh, really? I had Evil Dead. I love those Bruce Campbell call-outs. Must have been a slippery baby. Portal, that's what we had. And Winchester Mystery House. Okay. I love Winchester Mystery House. The guy was like, multiple.
    92:43
    Like, it's – I'm going to have a hard time. You have to listen. I'm going to have a hard time not giving that the best call-outs for 2025. It's, on another level, great. Portal is so iconic to that theme. It was clever. It was well done. wonderfully executed in Portal. And then Evil Dead is Bruce Campbell.
    93:08
    Best animation and display. I'll give you my top three. This wasn't easy either. I think this was a down year for animation display, if I'm going to be honest. But I had Dune, but the cut sequences were beautifully done. I like the integration between the dual screens too, if we're talking about display types.
    93:33
    Dungeons and Dragons, I give a lot of credit to how much information had to be conveyed on the display itself. This is a different way that Pinball has never seen of displaying information in their rules and code. So to do so the way they did, mapping, spatial awareness for the player, it was a hell of a feat for the animation display. And it felt almost board game, video game-esque. And Harry Potter because it's J.J.P.
    94:09
    Yeah, I did have Harry Potter. Not particularly surprising, I don't think. My other two were Sterns, but not the ones you picked. I went with Star Wars and then I thought King Kong, the custom animation with King Kong, actually. deserve nominations. I was stuck on the Star Wars, too. What pulled me off of it was I love all of, man, you get so many assets on that. More than the last Star Wars, and so that's kind of what pushed me over. I was real close on Dune, though. That wasn't an honorable mention for me. It was Dune. Ray, I'm going to throw this out there for you. If you would have filled that screen more with those assets, that new big screen, I would have bumped it. No, the licensing restricts us to put anything over the film. So if I had to display anything on the UI, I couldn't put it over. So I have to make it. I get it, Ray. I get it. I'm just saying.
    95:09
    Best lighting. Yeah, this one. A lot of good lighting. There was a lot of good lighting. So this was one of the ones I struggled more on. But I did do Walking Dead Remastered here. That's good. Yeah, again, I know some of it, maybe I'm giving too much credit to the Spike 3 cabinet and the lighting, but it just felt like there was a lot of lighting going in, especially for a Stern game. So I gave it that. Beetlejuice?
    95:38
    New lighting system, man. Yeah, and again, they really showed it off really well with the Deo mode, so that really stuck with me. And not a big surprise, I suppose, but Harry Potter, J.J.P. and their light shows usually are pretty impressive, and I thought they did a good job there. So those were my three. Okay. I matched two of yours. I do agree. Beetlejuice deserves to be in that top three as well as Harry Potter, J.J.P., like you said. They do lighting and animation like no other. So they're there. I went with Dune. I really think Barrel stepped it up with their lighting presentation. I had a hard time not putting Winchester in there as well. But the whole night today, their HAL lighting system, I think, is maybe done better than Stern's. It's closer to a JJP, but I like that it's projecting that same hot rails that lights up. I like that it's doing that same, but lighting down. So you see a lot of atmospheric type of changes in lighting. So I really do like that with Dune. and it makes sense for doing. They're more specific in barrels. Whoever's coding is doing very specific light shows based on target hits, and I love that. So if you make a shot, a specific shot, you'll get sequencing from that shot and then outward. Or you'll get some particle effects throughout. Like they're using more sequencing, and I think that's really detail-oriented, really sharp stuff. That's lighting. Best artwork. This was tough for me. It shouldn't have been, but it's tough because it's hard to only pick three. There were some really standout ones. For me, it was Franchi. Beetlejuice and Evil Dead. And then who gets that third spot? Dune looked so good. But I think Winchester Mystery House looked better. For me, that third spot was Winchester Mystery House. Well, I went with Beetlejuice and Winchester Oh, okay Also, I did not do Evil Dead I did Harry Potter on art Oh! Even with the art gate Wow!
    97:55
    The C.E. Lomi Numi, Loco Moco I don't remember the name of it So, I'm not thinking Playfield I think that cabinet is doing a heavy lift, but what a lift it does. And so I went ahead and said, you know what? I'm going to give that one. I didn't feel like AI slop to me. No, it was really nicely done. And it's primarily the reason that people bought that CE over their model. Oh, it was. I mean, I haven't read the books. Like, the movies are what I know. If I was to pick an art package, it would have been the CE art package because it's so whimsical. It looks really good. It's just luxurious. It's well done. What about for best toys? Okay. So for me, I did Dungeons & Dragons as one of mine. I wanted to. The dragon. The dragon is so cool. They got the gelatinous cube also, though. So it's just like that whole package. It really does feel like D&D. So that one was one of mine. Kong. I don't care about the theme, but the way that they ended up mixing sort of the jungle aesthetic with the art deco with the building.
    99:09
    Artistically, you've got that theme, but then you've got it set up, so I'm not judging the art here, but where Kong's interfering, you've got the train car thing, the subway, and his little arms moving around. Again, it just felt like it fit really well with the art package they had assembled. And then Beetlejuice. Even if I think it may be overwrought the sandworm with, like, oh, well, there's going to be it, and it's going to have a bank in front of it, and it's going to have targets below it, but visually, it's right there with the... Maybe I just like things that articulate around, because it's kind of like the dragon from D&D in that regard, but that wasn't the only piece. You had some of those other, you know, the sculpt aspects going on with the field juice popping up over on the right-hand side. The now serving sign. Yes. And I think of those things as toys, even if they're not necessarily interactive. To me, it's Some of those were my three. It should be like Best Engineering or something because, yeah, that's all in it. So I'm with you on King Kong. I have King Kong in there as well because push comes to shove. I don't care what people want to say about Stern's lack. You know what, guys? I think that Stern is doing a great job when it comes to toys because that dragon in D&D, I didn't go D&D here. I know. I had a hard time not. But that damn dragon, I kind of prefer over the Beetlejuice Worm. I'm not going to lie. I'm sorry. It's just like if I had to pick one, it's like, well, but it doesn't eat the ball. How about it freaking shoots fireballs out? It looks cool. It's a beautiful sculpt. You bash it. You actually hit it. It's cool. But Kong also has the spider that goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    100:59
    But I went with Best Toys. I went with King Kong. It's got one of the coolest toys It has an ape that moves around And reacts with personality To the player It stops the ball like you said It interacts with the ball It throws a fit which gets another Met going Dude it's awesome King Kong as a toy is freaking cool And then the spider I like that too Evil Dead Man That game is loaded And it's loaded in the right ways It's integrated so well. There are toys upon toys, even the little reels that spin on the apron. It gets ridiculous. The hand, that is novel. I love that articulated hand going back and forth, the mechs that pop up, the lower play field, the magnet that pulls up the buck in the back, just the cabin, the entire cabin. It's not just physical ball lock. It's got the fence that locks. And the drop targets that are the shotgun shells, not only was it packed, it's just very unique with some of the engineering there. So Evil Dead was in there and Winchester Mystery House. I was going back and forth between Dune and that. Man, Dune with the worm. That worm is an engineering marvel. It is a feat. I love the radical kickback. I love the actual physical dunes. There's so much I loved. But Winchester had a presence. It has an entire freaking house with the Pepper's Ghost, a tower that falls. It has the Carl D'Angelo carousel, a functional toy. That thing is awesome. Physical ball lock with the glowing crystal ball, and then the apron that glows.
    102:40
    Winchester, awesome. That's why I said there's so many toys. Even I could see the argument for Portal. Portal has some of the coolest damn toys and mechs. If any other year, it would have probably brought it home. But there were some cool, cool toys and mechs. Death Star, not so much. But there were some other cool mechs. Even Harry Potter.
    103:03
    Pretty novel. That whole staircase thing. But I just couldn't. I wanted it in there. I just, you know.
    103:11
    So close. That's a hard one this year. Best Innovation. Innovation is a tough word because we don't get tons of innovation each and every year. But who's pushing the envelope? Who's trying something different for me? Or what's different? For me, it was Beetlejuice, it was Dune, and it was Dungeons & Dragons. Did you have specific things that triggered that for you? Yeah, so for Beetlejuice, the thing is just I love the spooky speak. I love that they took a swing. I don't know if they're going to knock it out of the park with it. I have no clue. when I mess around with it, it's damn cool. But I just don't know how it's going to be utilized yet. But it was innovative. It's the first ever done. Then they load the damn thing down. Every single piece of material touches an art or has art applied to it. I love that whole innovation.
    104:00
    Dune, I love the entire mechanism. It's physical world under glass. They loaded it down with everything. I really like the innovation of the dual screens that they actually used more than they did on Labyrinth. So imaging effects animation goes from the bottom screen up to the back box screen and different things. And then D&D is just one hell of a feat with the way that Dwight Sullivan and them are trying to make pinball a different experience, like a different subgenre of pinball gaming with essentially playing Dungeons & Dragons board game or Dungeons & Dragons game. RPG game in pinball form. It's a lofty goal of what they set out to do, but I think it has paid off better than most anticipated and about as close as maybe we're going to get. Maybe, do I think it's at that final iteration of what they're really envisioning for what pinball could become? No, but it took a big step forward in that direction.
    105:07
    Well, we share two of these. I did put Beetlejuice down for innovations, for Spooky Speak specifically. I'm not sure if that's got legs or not, but it's different, and so it's innovative. I also did D&D, both for the rules approach and for just everything they did have the dragon do, because I felt like it was a pretty intricate kind of mech comparatively to what we generally see. My third one, though, was actually Star Wars. for when I was pre-planning this, writing down the Baby Yoda Ball Save Player Control Saviness.
    105:41
    A Jedi Force save. So you've taken the human interaction, kind of like the Stern Black Knight game, combined it with GoldenEye's automatic magnet save down between. But this one, depending where the ball's positioning is, allows you to do multiple different things with its use. And I think it's commonly overlooked, but I think that was actually quite innovative of a concept to embed in the game. Yeah, that's phenomenal. You're spot on there, Dennis, because that was so cool because it could have been done the easy way like other people do it. But that was so – it's the best iteration of that type of ball save that we've ever seen in pinball. And it was new and novel. I like it. What about best topper? You're a topper guy. Yeah. I did pick on this. I haven't picked on all the categories because there are a couple I really like. I appreciate your trying it. Yes. No, here. Okay. So King Kong, I think the marquee fits the theme really, really well. I thought it looks pretty nice. So there's that. The other two are obvious. Beetlejuice and Evil Dead. Okay. Yeah. And you know which ones. I don't mean the ones that come with the game. That's right. Yeah. I'm with you on Beetlejuice, Evil Dead. I think they kind of, they're in their own category. And because I was searching for that third spot, I gave it to the Walking Dead Remastered. A little outside of the box here, but I do like that they took what people argued as one of the greatest hoppers ever, and they made it better with lighting, size, and scale, and sculpt, and look, art. So it's just one of the best hoppers that just got remastered and got even better. So I like that. Best theme. Oh, you guys know you want to know what the winners are in all of these. Patreon. No, they don't. They're perfectly happy. I dare you to try. I wonder if they're guessing which ones are our number ones on these and if they're right or not. Oh, that would be fun. You guys should jot down what ones you think Dennis and I will pick, which ones are the same, and then go listen. Okay. Best theme. Okay, this is simple. This isn't theme integration. Right. This isn't what they did with the theme. This is brass tacks. What's the best themes? Who got the best themes? For me, Beetlejuice, Harry Potter, and Star Wars. That's my three best things. We have one difference. I did Harry Potter and Star Wars, but I did Dune. I knew you would. Yeah. You liked the Dune theme. Yeah. It was unique to pinball, too. I like that. Okay. What about theme integration? What they did with the theme? What top three did you have? The only one that I shared between the two was Star Wars. Oh, so you just carried them over. Okay. No, no, no. Star Wars was the only theme that I also thought could be my best theme integration. Okay, gotcha. But Dune and Harry Potter, I did not. Because instead, I went with Portal. Yeah, it was a really good theme. Because I thought they had really, really good theme integration. And I went Evil Dead.
    108:50
    Yeah. I'm with you on Evil Dead. I've got Evil Dead in my top three for theme integration. I also have Beetlejuice because that feels very much like the world.
    109:02
    So much so that you're saying this name three times and the machine's reacting to you. And Winchester Mystery House, my dark horse, because it was a theme nobody knew. But, damn, because of the integration, it turned into a theme that everybody wanted to know. It felt like a haunted house, like a mysterious, old, ghostly, spiritual house, and pulled people in. So I think it was really almost down to, like, mapping the 3D, you know, 3D mapping the rooms from the actual Winchester Mystery House, taking the stories of the Winchester family legacy and putting it into the storylines, the different ghosts and spirits. Winchester Mystery House and there's a big house in the game and Pepper's Ghost is perfect for a ghost themed game because that's exactly why it was made best rules code and rules this is tough because so many of these things are early on I could not put Beetlejuice in there because we just don't know yet I couldn't put a lot in there so rules right now for me Evil Dead I know what that is, and I know it's good, and it's novel, and it's unique. Harry Potter, great rules. A lot to do.
    110:24
    And then it's Elwynn and Nagel. It's King Kong for me because even if not even at 1.0 and it's already people are like, yeah, forget about it. It's awesome.
    110:35
    Okay. Well, King Kong is the one that we share for rules. I also put on D&D. Yeah, I can argue. The approach with the progression and all of that, I like that Dwight is doing this different path with pinball. I think it's getting better with these various games. And I put Winchester.
    110:55
    Okay, yeah. From what I've seen of it, I'm like, I think it's got it. I think the rules are there. It's really in-depth. I wonder if I'm going to be able to follow. It's really, there's a lot to go on, a lot of strategy, a lot to do there. Good picks. What about design and layout? I'm talking geometry now. Yeah.
    111:19
    Well, all right. Evil Dead is one of mine. I got to play it at TPF. A wide body? A wide body, yes. We sold that. Yes, but there have been, there are always exceptions, Zach, that prove the rule. Demolition Man is a wide body as well. It doesn't play like one. And the way that they've integrated where the targets are on the side of Evil Dead makes it so the actual shooting real estate, I feel is much more of a standard body, and that's probably why I like it. But regardless, it makes the list. So Evil Dead is one of the best designed games. That's high praise alone. They don't even need to win it. So do the dates. King Kong, you know, Elwynn, once again, looks different than his other games. He continues to iterate, you know, a master of geometry. And Winchester.
    112:06
    Oh, very interesting. What Carl's come up with, I thought, a very creative layout. I haven't been able to play it myself. I've had to only watch gameplay of it. But from what I've seen, it's there. It's got it. Enough that I'm confident to put it in the top three. I agree with you. I'm two out of three with you as well. Winchester is there for me. It does check out. I love that it has unique shots. It has shots, and very few games do that, where you just want to explore and you want to keep trying to shoot different things. Another game like that that I also have in top design and layout for me is Harry Potter, where the staircase changes so much you kind of want to see what that shot now does. So I rank things high with that regard when I'm not getting bored of playing a particular game. It doesn't have to be the cleanest shooting thing. It cannot be clunky. If a game is clunky, I have a hard time really designating it as a top, and Harry Potter and Winchester are certainly not clunky. and then the tried and true King Kong. Not even my favorite Keith Owen layout, but what he does right on that, he does better than pretty much the field. But I don't like the quick silver-esque middle of the play field stuff going on. I really actually dislike that quite a lot. It sets up for interesting drop banks and stuff, but I don't like it as much. But he still deserves to be in the top three there and potentially the tried and true gold standard winner. But we'll see. Patreon.com. That's best design layout. Best launch. Product launch here.
    113:46
    These come with asterisks for me. Because what I love about some, I hate about the same thing. For me, best launch is between Beetlejuice because it was messy. It was messy in the ways it was done. But what worked really worked. And it was like this hype machine that we have not seen for years. So I had to give it due. Harry Potter, again, I don't like how it was rolled out from a sales perspective, which also bleeds into public launch and reveal. But it was Harry Potter. And the impact it had and how it was launched, you had the Element Studios video trailer, you had the featurette. It just was really well done. And then Winchester Mystery House, the launch that nobody even seen coming. But when it did, once you seen it, it was like the spirits. It was gone because they sold out immediately. It didn't have to have the biggest dick in the room. It came in, it did its job, and it left with her satisfied. I'm sorry. It just fell right into that. I was doing so good there. I had to finish it. What about you, Dennis? Best launch. Yeah, I kind of wondered if maybe on this one we wouldn't have anything in alignment, but we do. I did pick Winchester. Okay. I could not pick those other ones.
    115:15
    I'm sorry. Just because the games did well versus how they launched. Now, Spooky is on my list because Evil Dead is one of mine. Okay. I thought that was a way better launch than Beetlejuice. Solid launch. I thought it was way better than Beetlejuice's launch. And Portal. I thought Portal had a really good launch with their strategy of what they did. I still feel that Multimorphic won TPF. And maybe that was more a victim of calendar than anything else, but the way they rolled out Portal was launched it. That is true. It was really, really good. Now, the time to then try and get one, but that's not the launch anymore. So I really tried to just judge the launch. I can see the argument. That's good. I like it. All right. That was launch. What about the best accessory you're omitting? Yeah, I don't care about accessories, Zach. It was honestly hard for me. There wasn't any crazy standout ones this year. I'm going to give the list of top three to the Cactus Canyon Upgrade Kit with the Lyman upgrade and the physical upgrades to it. The Dune molds and shooter rod. So I like there was a package deal where you got a molded shooter rod and you got these sculpted in lanes and slings. Those are really well done. And then I'm going to go with expression lighting system overall on spike three, because I love now Stern is what you were talking about earlier, Dennis. It's the interior cabinet lighting. Now it's the exterior armor lighting. It's the speaker lighting and it's the topper lighting. And all of this now is programmed together. So they are really finding a way to almost surpass some of the dynamics of other manufacturers because they are taking everything outside of the pinball machine and integrating it with what's going on inside. So if other companies don't watch out, they're going to get a long lead with their expression lighting system because we didn't talk about the cabinet stuff. But everybody's like, oh, those side holes up top there, instead of having one hole for the leg bolt, now it's got room on the side. I'm just saying, what if those holes were used for other things in the future, accessory-wise? You can run wires through those more easily now. Just saying, just saying, just saying. Shooter, the shooter housing now is using lighting for Stern. Like, they're turning, they're smart. Because we talk about molds and all that stuff. Stern says, you know what's cheap but dynamic, impactful? RGB lighting. You get coating, lighting right, it's a cheap way to make a lot of razzle-dazzle. So be on the lookout for that kind of stuff. So that's best accessory. Best surprise overall.
    118:00
    Now, this is very subjective here. But something very surprising, you're like, ah, I wasn't expecting that this year. I did games. so I went ahead and focused so Winchester Mystery House for appearing out of nowhere same here Walking Dead Remastered actually now having the solution to the biggest complaint which was the call outs and getting two voice cast members in not just one to solve it and Predator for actually finding a way to legally get made whatever we think of it being made that they actually did it Bravo. That was a surprise. I was like, come on, no one's going to bother. After Skit B, no one's going to touch that license. We have to wait for an entire new generation of pinball people before that's coming back. We'll get another shot at it in 15, 20 years. That's a good point. I do like the Predator point. I went with Winchester, obviously. That was a surprise to everybody. I went Dune because it was a theme that, minus your love for Dune, Not a theme that people were exactly excited about, but I think now, where we're at now, looking back, it was a pretty damn great surprise. Like, that felt like a cool game and it's going well now. Evil Dead for me, because same thing. Like, we didn't, we've never, if I would have told you a year and a half ago, hey, Spooky's got Evil Dead, you would have been like, that doesn't surprise me. It's right in their wheelhouse. But you would have said, probably good for pinball, but not like a crazy license that people are just going to gaga over. And then if I said, but it's not only that, it's going to be sold out within a year, and people are going to spend up to $15,000 to $16,000 for one. You'd be like, spooky? The same spooky that I'm thinking of? Like, yeah, that spooky. With Evil Dead? Yeah. I don't believe that. So it was a hell of a surprise to me where that at now All right so that best surprise It is now best high product You pulling yourself from this This is for me just when you go up to a game and you just look at it as a whole what looks like the highest end product? What really has all the bells and whistles? What has all the details in it? What looks the sexiest? What looks like the best product overall, the highest echelon that you can produce to even pinball or non-pinball people? For me, the top three this year were Beetlejuice. It just oozes freaking beauty and loaded.
    120:31
    Harry Potter CE and Winchester Mystery House. All three of those, when they sit in the lineup, they demand attention, and they just look so well-crafted and well-done.
    120:47
    All right. Most improved from 2024, I guess? Yeah, from last year. The year before. So the comeback award here. Right. We could have picked Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Jaws, The Princess Bride, Berrios, Barbecue Challenge, Ninja Eclipse, ABBA, John Wick, Funhouse Remake, L.A., The Uncanny X-Men, Avatar, The Battle for Pandora, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, and Metallica Remastered. So of these, what do you have at the top? I didn't necessarily have like a three. I do. I did it by brand. So, Spooky, because I think the jump is tangible from Texas and Looney Tunes to Evil Dead and Beetlejuice. Very tangible. JJP, because Harry Potter compared to Avatar, I think, is a noble step up in the eyes of the pinball community. And then Pinball Brothers, because, again, regardless of the asset issues, Predator is a step up above ABBA.
    121:51
    Okay. So that's what I did So I did it based on some games So I had a lot of them Like Stern stuff Like Jaws Even though it was loved I am very surprised at the improvement Even in like still code Of this last year So you're talking about games How much improvement they made to the game Yeah to the game Or just the perception of them Before and then where they're at kind of now.
    122:23
    Same with me on the Uncanny X-Men. Like, had a strong start, and then most of 2025, it was just underwater. People didn't want that game. And now what we're seeing, I think it's highly improved this last year, where it's at now from time prior. And then the other one for me was Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It was kind of once Evil Dead came out and then Beetlejuice, kind of this throwaway thing. But because of how clever it was coded and how they continued to put time and effort into it, even two years later, it still is a really clever, fun, programmed game. So most improved for those three. And then it comes down to the best game, the best game of 2025.
    123:13
    Now, the way I did this, do you want to go first? You want me to go first? I can. Go ahead. What are your top three for best? Did you have any, like, I'm doing this based on what I think the top three games are or based on the top three that I've picked out from all the other categories, totals? No, I evaluated this independent. Okay. All right. It's based off of, yeah. It's not a mathematical tally of who's won the other stuff. Sometimes the sum is greater than the parts of the sum, so I don't do it that way. Mine are three different manufacturers for each game as well. And it's not just necessarily, you know, I'm trying to judge what, you know, even if it might not necessarily be my cup of tea, what I think may actually be truly worthy of being called best. So with all those caveats. Harry Potter. Okay. I think both the theme, the way people are responding to the rules. There are a lot of people who think it's either J.J.P.'s best game or second only to Elton John.
    124:14
    You know, the replayability, the interesting geometry, how the flippers all feel on this game now. I think it's got a lot going for it, the assets as well that they were able to incorporate. King Kong, probably the least surprising one on the list, but Elwynn, of course, delivering with his rules, his layout, the theme integration is there. One of the better animated packages also overall, I think, for a Stern game is King Kong, as I mentioned earlier. So I don't think that was particularly surprising. And then Winchester.
    124:44
    Okay. because I think because while it came out of nowhere and the theme may not appeal specifically, a lot of people I think like the idea of a ghost theme versus really caring about Winchester Mystery House specifically the rollout of a new designer who's much like Elwynn taking on a lot of the rules, all the feedback I've heard about how the game plays so far has been very strong, my own observing of it seems to be like I think this game If they had made more of this, it would have done, I think, quite well. But I think a lot of people just won't get their hands on it. But those are my, I think, three contenders for best game of the year. As I give my contenders, I want you to think of this, Dennis. Think of how different or similar it would be if I asked you your favorite game.
    125:34
    So we might do that. So think about that while I'm picking. So I initially had a hard time coming up with three. So I just drafted really quick of the top three that I gave you viewers on each category. What if I counted how many times each of them got announced, the tally approach? I agree with Dennis that sometimes the sum is better than the equal part, all that stuff. And I may go that route when it comes to actually who I pick as what I think the best game of 2020, 2025 is. But for the most part, I think I'm going to kind of go with these tallies. The highest I gave the most tallies, I gave nine out of the best three to Beetlejuice and Winchester Mystery House. So those two are in, Winchester Mystery House and Beetlejuice. That third spot, I'm torn because I have two of the next two highest categorically or quantitatively. Harry Potter is seven, and Evil Dead is seven.
    126:35
    I'm like, shit, which way do I go there? If you're forcing me to take three instead of four, I guess I have to get rid of Evil Dead and keep Harry Potter. So I will go Winchester, Harry Potter, and Beetlejuice. And you had Winchester, Harry Potter, King Kong, right? Correct. Okay. All right. Now, if you were doing favorite game, would they be the same or different? If so, what are they? All three would be different. Okay.
    127:02
    I'm glad I asked. And what are they? D&D. Okay. Dune. Okay. And Evil Dead. Okay. I'm going to stick with my top three favorite as the best game. Okay. Yeah, because it came out that way. Okay.
    127:23
    I want to know so bad what your best of 2025 are in each of these categories. I so want to know because you surprised the hell out of me on a lot of this stuff. But we agreed on a lot of this stuff too. So tune in, patreon.com slash the pinball show. Listen to the rest of the episode because you can't forget the lovely segment in which I scream at the top of my lungs.
    127:49
    Our love for the markets and the fluctuating values and a deeper look into this industry. So we're going to do that. But go to patreon.com slash pinball show to see who won the pinball show awards of 2025. But until then, we're going to jump right into it hot and heavy with Pinball Market Trends! Did I not do one this last episode? This episode three months ago. Oh, my God. I thought you did. Maybe I didn't do it. Maybe I did do it. I'm not sure. I'm so old, Dennis. Baja! Setting up this week is, I was going to say it's going to be Beetlejuice, because I think the time before last, when I did Pinball Market Trends last, it was like heralding a $3,000 premium over MSRP? Let's try $5,000. It's $5,000 over MSRP. Dogecoin, baby. Diamond hands. Where's it going to stop? Is it going to crash? Are they going to make a movie about it? GameStop? What are we going to do? I think it's, yeah, I think it capped. I think, I don't know. Maybe not. This is crazy talk. Winchester doing the same damn thing. I told you guys, don't sleep on Winchester. It's going to do the same thing. It's more rare. Also training up this week is Harry Potter.
    129:06
    It's like the little holiday. It's elvenized the industry here in Q4. The sales just keep popping up. And I'm like, people, you're not going to get it before Christmas. And they're like, I know. At least I can give the deposit to my family. And it's not going to keep us warm. And Tiny Tim's still going to lose his life. It's Harry Potter. And also, you see the Pinty Top 100? It's now number one again on the Pennside Top 100. So the sales continue to increase. The people love the damn game, so it's got to be trending up. All trending up this week is Dune. Feels like everybody buying a Winchester Mystery House is buying a Dune now. Again, ever since Expo, I cannot reiterate it enough, but it's like getting, I probably sold more in December than I did in November. Like, everybody wants a Dune, and they're okay waiting for it, too. That's what's amazing me. But Dune, for whatever reason, even I'm surprised at how hot it is right now. Because I'm like, it's a fantastic game. But where in the hell have you guys been at? It's been a fantastic game. But Dune, that's really hot right now. Also, this is more holiday season kind of stuff. Like, Jaws 50th anniversary is on fire right now. It's getting the same amount. It's probably the most purchased Stern for the last two, three months, and that's like a pre-order thing, too. Everybody knows that they're doing one more run. They want to get one before it runs out, and they know the likelihood of them coming before Christmas is high. It's going to be close, guys. It's going to be close. We're going to be shipping them this week, and we've got to ship them back out with all the weather stuff, and then FedEx only ships certain days. It's going to be close. But y'all's 50th.
    130:51
    Talk about surprise of the year. I still can't believe this, training up Star Wars Fall of the Empire sales. I'm not talking about reception in a sense, I guess I am. But maybe non-pinball people are finding this game, but our November and December pretty consistently Fall of the Empire orders. And not even the LA, it's pro and premiums. People are buying pro. Like, what was it? Last week during our sales meeting, I was like, Guys, we sold four stores in the last week. Like, what is going on right now? And they were all website orders. They just, yeah, I think it's holiday season, and people are like, this is the new shiny stern in Star Wars, and it's cool. People are buying Star Wars Fall of the Empire. So maybe there's some truth to that. And they're selling them direct on Amazon now. What is that? Yeah. Who knows?
    131:46
    Also trading up accessories during the holidays. We find that it's always the holidays that people are buying accessories for others. Like, they're not going to buy a pinball machine, but, ah, speaker lighting, a stern bar stool for the game room, new toppers, even the newer toppers they might stretch, reflective glass, like the non-reflective glass. We see people buying that. But a lot of accessories. Like, nothing says I love you and Merry Christmas like some interior art place, I guess, for whatever it is. People are buying a lot of accessories. Now we get to the down and dirt. is what you guys are talking about. Negativity sound. Well, here it is. I'll put it on a platter for you. Turning down this week, The Walking Dead.
    132:29
    Look, you know, your original Walking Dead's not worth what the remasters are worth now. Oh, shit, I thought he was talking about remastered.
    132:39
    Fine. Turning down is the remastered Walking Dead. I'm just here to report the facts. I don't get it, Zach. I don't know why they launched that game when it's just obviously not ready. It wasn't ready.
    132:54
    Yeah, and it's going to be a great game. It's going to be great. But if you eat it right now, this is the worst launch since Bond for them. I'm going to take this thing a little bit. Worst launch since James Bond for them. Not as bad as James Bond's launch, but it's like the new rules aren't in. It was the stuff about the animations was slow to be shown. Like there was still like not everything was approved yet. I'm like, why are we launching? It's a remaster. You can launch this whenever. It felt like to me it felt like they had decided they had to get the word out before Halloween. Like that was going to like anyone was going to get it before Halloween. And other than that, I don't understand why we couldn't have stalled this. I don't understand. It's too bad, too, because a lot of the, like, almost everything about this game is going to be seen objectively as an improvement. But it's like half the stuff feels like it's not even done yet. I don't mean like normal not done. I mean like, so what's different than Lyman's Code? Well, there'll be some stuff eventually. The upside here, maybe, if I'm trying to find a silver lining, is that if it continues not to do well sales-wise, they'll stop making it. And if they stop making it, then maybe that LE will be worth more than any of the other things in the long term. Like, I'm trying to find.
    134:24
    Unpopular LEs normally don't become really valuable. It's not that sort of hobby. We know the game itself is one of the greats. So I'm still holding out hope, like I did for Uncanny. And I get lucky here and there. But I think it will do well. But just not now. Not now. It's not. It's not selling well. It's not being received well.
    134:44
    And I think that has some – remember, I always say, viewer, that sometimes we project as hobbyists, we project our anger towards something else. We find low-hanging fruit or something like that. So maybe we're getting people bitching and moaning about cabinet stuff because there are other things subconsciously going on that they're not liking or they're upset about. Maybe some of it is a cabinet. I don't know. But, yeah, it's just the Walking Dead remasters, it's a tough sell right now. It's not selling well. It's not being received well from people.
    135:15
    And it's just, it is what it is. I don't like reporting that all the time. But I'm not going to sit here and blow, you know, zombie smoke up your ass either. It's just not where it needs to be. I'm still like, are we going to get anything from the TV show? Like, anything, anything. I was told to cut the license. What is going on? I would love to know. But even if I sell a lot of the products, I'm not told. So I have no clue. All trending down this week, this whole mystery inventory warehouse. I don't know if you've caught wind of this, but, like, there's an area of pinball media that, when times get tough, they grasp for things. And they're grasping right now at this. They want there to be a magical warehouse that's provocative, that there's inventory building up, And that it shows that the whole industry is doomed. Why these people are even in this hobby? I don't fucking know. But that's what they want right now. But the sad, there's no truth to it. I feel real bad. There's always been this warehouse. I'll even tell you, it's called Rotra. It's up in Chicago. There's no secret. You don't have to. There's Patreon. I'm like, I'm going to get some pictures. And I'm going to unveil them. If you remember. No. No need. Hell, I can get some pictures. It's a storage warehouse, just like a lot around the country. But this is in Chicago. And there's no mystery to it. What a lot of dealers do is they save. I think there's some kind of deal where you have to pay for. They keep them there so that they don't have to inventory them at their place. Because it costs a lot of money to pay, ship them to your place to sit, then to have to pay and ship them back out somewhere else. So there's a better deal if they can pay the storage fees associated with somewhere close to Chicago. They virtually don't have to pay much of anything on shipment. They store them there, and then they only ship them and pay one time for them to go to customer. And the storage fees are negligent compared to the cost of shipping game to – Just like a hub. That's exactly what it is. So there's nothing controversial about it. And some of the bigger dealers have been doing it, and smaller dealers have been doing it for eternity. The previous owner of Flippin' Out Pinball, even as far back as when I got into the game, was doing that. I think CoinTaker, a lot of the big ones do that. Not a big Tilt was doing that. Not a big deal. Pretty smart, too, logistically speaking, if it works out for you. I have something wrong with my brain where my brain doesn't allow my products to be somewhere else. So I do pay more money just to have, because I want to be able to see them, inventory them, touch them, see what kind of conditions they're in, have full control over when they go out. I just, as Dennis has said, I'm kind of a control freak. So that system does not work for me. But there's nothing provocative about it, people. It's called Rotra.
    138:18
    And I think even, I don't know if Stern uses it, because they thought there was an Indiana Jones warehouse that, like, this is all the answers to the questions that we've been having. Everybody is drowning in this inventory and stuff. I hate to bum you all out. But, no, dicks can get soft. It's not like that. It's just a boring old warehouse with people, a hub. So that is my inventory. I don't even think my inventory, I've got a stern spreadsheet here. But let's even see. I'm going to try to give them something to at least talk about here. I feel bad. Let me see if my inventory is down from here. Yeah, my inventory is up, but not, like, significantly.
    139:03
    Not enough for me to sweat. So, no, not really. Inventory is always – anytime I have a lot of inventory, I want to get rid of it. But, yeah, I'm not worrying about stirring inventory right now. So, I can't even help you there. So, sorry, pinball market trends. I got nothing provocative here. Oh, trending down this week, using cardboard. Did you see my rant about cardboard yet, Dennis? No people. They use cardboard when they're packing their games in between the head and the cup. I think I've talked about this before, but I have to reiterate the point because it's costing me thousands of dollars. Please stop doing it.
    139:36
    Calm down, son. Cardboard. A lot of people, when I got in the hobby, a lot of people would put a sheet of cardboard and they'd hold down the head of a pinball machine and they'd rant it all night. That damages a game. Stop doing it Now in the comment section on social media When I posted a picture of somebody doing that To a recent Jaws LE that they had shipped here They wanted to argue with it And just don't argue There's no reason to argue Because it's true It's true it damages a game Well does it damage that It's true that it damages the game Just don't use cardboard It's not like a thing that I'm looking to argue. It's just truth and untruth. It's true. Damage is a game. To what extent? You can discuss that. But stop using cardboard between back box and cabinet when packing and transporting a game. The one thing it does do, unequivocally, it will rub the rails, the powder on your rails. You're going to say, well, Zach, you know, okay, for LEs, that's fine. Well, LEs, don't put cardboard. It scratches it. It's like a fine scratching. it will scratch the hell, it will rub like a matte finish spot on your rails of where it comes contact. Number two, even if it's a textured black stern powder, well, it will really rub that. It will rub that to a smooth point. It will no longer have the texture. So you will have, look at it, if you get enough movement, even in the way the stern boxes up a game, you can even get it with some foam because it has some abrasive nature to it. Cardboard is an abrasive thing. So you can see that. They're going to say, well, but what about Valley Williams and stainless steel? It will. It will finally scratch stainless steel. It doesn't work on anything. Don't do it. The second thing that's bad about cardboard, it doesn't offer enough protection, enough cushioning.
    141:37
    So even if it'll scratch, number one, it'll always scratch. But if there's pressure, added pressure, it will dent those rails If you ship games and stuff like that, take your hand and rub over it You'll feel a little dent there, especially Jersey Jack games You're going to dent there even with a standard storage blanket or a moving blanket You've got to build up Jersey Jacks, not only at the top point of the head But at the bottom point of the head too Because their design is a flaw and the head is too close to the rails So, just stop using cardboard Please, people On the ones that came to me, yes The Jaws LE to the metal In two spots on the rail and one spot on the lockdown bar So I have to specially order LE I have to prove to them it's damaged I have to get a serial It's a pain in the ass And I have to do it And then they may not even have it for months upon months X-Men LE, same thing Scratches, I have to replace it Just stop using cardboard Use dirty underwear Use anything else. If you ball it up enough, stop using cardboard. All trending down this week is a little subset I'm going to call hard truths here at the Pinball Show. Quick and dirty, but things that I'm noticing that I'm like, come on, guys. I'm far enough in the industry that I can at least give my opinion on things that I don't agree with. Turning down hard truths at the Pinball Show. One is this. Manufacturers reinforcing and giving attention to content creators that aim to be negative or aim to be hurtful or harmful. Right? There's nothing to prove here, manufacturers. Wake up.
    143:14
    I get called a shill a lot, Dennis. You know. People can argue whether I am or not. I'm not even going to argue that right now. I'm not. But I'm not here to prove that wrong. What I'm saying is, if you're going to sign up for me, if you're in that group, that camp that says, Zach is a shill, then you also, subsequently, you are automatically signing yourself up for the alternative camp that says that people actively trying to be negative for a platform in order to get money, whether subscribers and stuff like that, they're doing the same thing, but it's on the other end. You can't have one without the other. So you can't make the argument for the show and not make the argument for the other. It is what it is. These people aren't trying to hide it. I mean, look at the thumbnail. If it's click-baity, if every time a product comes out, you're sitting on stern, you know, well, what if I really feel that way? Oh, come on. You're leaning that way because it makes you more money. I fucking get it. I understand it. You're not trying to hide it. I ain't even mad at you, brother. You do you, boo-boo, because it's making you some money. And if that's where your ethics are and stuff, you do you. What I'm saying is manufacturers, you can't cry wolf whenever these entities who are putting themselves out there telling you that they're negative and stuff, you can't be mad whenever they're trying to influence people to not buy your product. And to be negative about your product and to make comments about the team members of your product, you cannot be mad about that. Wake up. Stop expecting something different. It's almost like an abuser mentality. Stop. They're going to be the same way they're going to be because it benefits them. They're going to put themselves before you. Why do you keep on continuing to give attention and reinforcement to people like this?
    145:00
    For those watching the video, I don't understand it. manufacturers, have a little self-respect. I know some of you are subconsciously kind of scared. Well, don't blow smoke up that guy's ass. Maybe he's going to make people hate my product. Be confident in your product. Make a great product. And I always tell manufacturers this. Don't worry about the one guy shitting on every product because he's consistent with shitting on every product. Thus, when you have a new product, guess what's going to happen? He's going to shit on it. If I was that person, I'd actually mix it up a little bit so that you do have some people listening like, oh, is he going to shit on the product? All right. It's like a television show where the plot line is the same. So, yeah, stop reinforcing it. Or having a little self-respect and say, you know what? The next product comes out, I see all these people shitting on it. I'm not going to pay for it and invite all these people up to shit on the product. No. I'm going to have some self-respect. and I'm going to focus on ways to promote our product in a good way. That's all. Also, another hard truth that I've been seeing a little bit too much of, manufacturers out there, employers, team members, even contracted workers, if you are working as part of a team making a product,
    146:15
    I'm seeing way too many of you people negatively making public negative, nasty statements about other people's products, other manufacturers. It's just tacky. It's gross looking. And it does not represent. You sign yourself up when you're working with a manufacturer. You sign yourself up, whether you like it or not, as being a representative of them. Period. Well, I'm not their employee. I'm not on their. No. If you're contracted for them and you're speaking nasty consistently everywhere and you always are finding a way. It looks bad. You're making your team look bad. You're making your brand look bad. And I promise you, I'm not trying to shit on you. just shit on you. I promise you in the long run, it will bite you in the ass.
    147:01
    It's easy to get into the mix of things, but I've seen so much of it or so much of when there's a presentation of a product from a manufacturer. I see other manufacturers or team members of those manufacturers jumping in and trying to get a little of that attention. Come on. Again, it goes back to just have a little more self-respect. A little dignity. A little attempt goes a long way. It will pay dividends. It's not the juicy, low-hanging fruit that's going to get you cavities and make you fatten up.
    147:35
    But just, I don't know, Dennis, am I crazy? It's just, I see this stuff, nobody wants to talk about it because it's not a, this is like negative for good negative sake. We can quit.
    147:46
    I'd like somebody to tell me that if I was doing something that was kind of icky, right? or do you think the reason they're icky is because they're not going to have the self-awareness to even catch up on said ickiness? It's like this. Yeah, it might be more that they don't realize. Yeah, you know, it's hard to say. Negativity can sell. Sometimes negative ad campaigns are more memorable. I think that maybe they think, well, maybe this is helping my company out. So even if it's not like an official channel, they might be. It's a bit of a stretch, though. I'm not sure. Some people just – here's where I think it is. I think they see it commonplace in the community, commonplace amongst content creators, and so they think, well, why can't I do that? And nobody does any otherwise. The manufacturers continue to reinforce.
    148:37
    It's amazing. Yeah, no, I don't understand the manufacturers that, you know, I could understand them disagreeing with, and it makes sense, disagreeing with a variety of content creators that will say things. And there are, I agree with you, there are content creators that they will go into a product and their goal is to be mean to it for sport. And the reason for that sport is less their own, I think, their own, oh, I just like being mean. I think they realize that that's what makes you more money, generally speaking, is being mean.
    149:11
    But I don't understand why manufacturers would provide interviews to such groups, you know, engage with them, try and, like, you'll never be able to appease them because appeasement's not the goal. They're not trying to win something from you. It was money. They like your product, yes. The negativity is the victory. So, because I, you know, I can be pretty hard on products. I think I can. Constructivism is different. Well, I don't, but I don't go into it for sport. I don't get up in the morning and say, today is the day I have to be mean to Stern, so I'm going to be mean to Stern. That's not, I don't have that emotional investment in it. And I do worry about toxic positivity, but toxic negativity is worse. It does more damage than toxic. They're both damaging, but it does more. just being mean for the sake of being mean is more damaging overall for a variety of reasons that we could get into. And this episode already wasn't super long. But yeah, I just don't understand why the power is really in the hands of the manufacturer. I sometimes feel like they don't realize it. And I see a lot of weakness in them because they're coddling and enabling this behavior instead of just ignoring it. just ignore it. I didn't want to say it, but gross balls. I'll say it nicer. Don't enable. Enabling is not good. You mentioned an abusive relationship set up. Guys, you can leave them. In this case, it's super easy because you actually don't have any. They have nothing. They're not bringing anything to the table.
    150:50
    No, so just dismiss it like you would dismiss any podcast that you never even subscribed to because you didn't know it existed. You don't have to know it exists. Just let it go. Yeah. It just came up because I think when I'm deep in the things, I do the media and I do the business part of it, and like sometimes I'll get some blowback on if I've done something, I'm like, wait a minute. I'm getting, what the fuck am I getting blowback for? Here's 20 examples. Really? Me? You're worried about me? Oh, shit. For fuck's sake. Listen, people, as always, I'm just here to report the facts because numbers don't lie. Neither do I. For better or worse, on Pinball Market Trans, choose that screaming eagle, baby.
    151:39
    And before we end the show, I want to wrap up like a tiny little bow that is the present under the tree. Do you have a Charlie Brown Christmas tree? I have a tree that you, when you looked at it, you'd go, this is basically Charlie Brown Christmas tree. It's like one. I mean, I'm not like you where I've got like a tree in every room of the house. I've got one tree up.
    152:00
    It's about, it's not even as tall as me. It's a fiber optic tree. It has no ornaments. It has, no, it has a topper on it.
    152:16
    And that is it. That's all it is. and it's sitting there right now. I'm not mad. Majestic. You've got a tree. I'm glad that you've got a tree. I put it up the day after Thanksgiving. Thank you. You've not given up on the tree. Mariah Carey still. It'll stay up until I'll take it down New Year's Day. That's fair. I'm good with that. You know what? You do you with that tree. I'm proud of that tree.
    152:44
    Maybe we throw some tinsel on it next year. No. Okay. Just caught in the vacuum We're going to put a little bow on the thank yous This week for The Scream and Go Club members We got to thank them They're all our big packages if you know what I mean Not that they're big packages But we appreciate them Just like we do the presents under the tree Yuletides Yul Log But Russ You don't say the lines do you Russ One of the greatest movies ever Rodney thank you so much shoot that fucker we appreciate you Rob thank you so much more than one ways a drink on your behalf Frank thank you so much Frank and happy holidays to you my friend hope you had a good Thanksgiving Falcon Charlie we ring the bell the jingle bells that is Jing dong and thank you. Jing dong and thank you, baby. We appreciate you. William, the dude. Mr. Treenhorn.
    153:51
    Moscow Mule, it's kind of like the eggnog of spirits. Isn't the eggnog of spirits eggnog? Yeah, but it's like, you know.
    154:02
    And what does the Moscow Mule have to do with the dude? Not Moscow Mule, the white Russian. It's got like the creamies, like the noggies. Yeah, I mean, it's got cream in it, so sure. Adam, thanks so much. Papa.
    154:17
    I wonder if that little baby, he got him a little sand outfit. It'd probably be an elf outfit. Oh, the little curly toes. Precious.
    154:29
    Not Adam, your kid. Not you. People think I'm talking to Adam. Like, he's emasculating. Doug, thank you so much.
    154:39
    We got the, I want to see the gopher. Open his little present. You know his present, B? That little poodle in lingerie. Hopping around. Wow. Yeah. That's right.
    154:52
    I like it. A little gopher. Gopher nuts hard. I like it. Gopher, thank you, Doug, for all your... Just thanks. Alan, thank you so much.
    155:04
    Sorry, I just remembered. Let's see. Jurassic Park 3. Alan. Is this... What? The Christmas car. The velocity.
    155:17
    Very open stuff. Like you go, clever gal. Uh-uh-uh. No. So dumb. Alan. All right. Thank you all for the continued support. Discord. Hop in there and talk about what we're all getting for Christmas. That would be a lot of fun. And a reminder, the next live happy hour hangout is this Wednesday, 8 to 9 p.m. Central. Might go over. Depends on how much I drink.
    155:48
    It'll be fun. But in the meantime, go sign up to patreon.com slash the pinball show. It's very appreciated. All right. How can people catch you? They can always email me directly at collectorgamerspodcast.gmail.com should they need to. Yeah, and remember, the holiday shillings, what do we call it? Season shillings holiday giveaway. Over $3,500 worth of giveaways. All you've got to do, just make sure that you're subscribed, you're following, you're sharing, All of that stuff on Flippin' Out and the Pinball Show. That would be greatly appreciated. Sharing the episode would be really nice, too. All you've got to do is just go to YouTube and take that link, share it in social medias, or share this post on social medias from Facebook. Whatever you want to do, do it. But we want to know what the best game of 2025 is. So in our YouTube comments for this episode, comment on what you think the best game of 2025 is. Snap a pic. Email it to thepinballshow at gmail.com for verification that you want to be entered into this contest. But also make sure you're following and subscribing And all that other shit too But win yourself a hologram Holographic topper and more That would be great Follow, subscribe, the straight down the middle Of video series, we're getting ready to do our end of the year roundup We're doing another review, top ten list I'm going to give Greg a gift, I think I'm going to film that We'll see what happens And to sponsor the show We could do it without him, we just don't want to
    157:11
    Got it, dig it out, slip it out, out, dig it out, out. When I take a pinball, I take a slip it out, out, out, out. Dig it out, out, out, out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from slip it out, out, out, out. Product showcase this week is Jaws 50th Anniversary Edition. I do have some spots, so get that now. Remember, it's like an alley, but it only costs as much as a premium. That's how I'm selling it. How about that? Powder coat, glitter package on a play field. Forget about it. The Walking Dead Remastered. I hear it's trending.
    157:44
    Ellie. Not lying. It's trending. Ellie and Premium Models. Go ahead and get yourself in stock. Medieval Madness Remake Merlin Edition if you're interested. I don't know what we're going to get next year, but get on the interested list. Harry Potter. The gift that will keep giving all year long, depending on when you get it. Order that. King Kong. Jaws. Star Wars. Follow the Empire. Dune. All of it. Here. Season's greetings from Flippin' Out Pinball. We appreciate the heck out of you. We love if we've earned your business this year. And I guarantee you we fought hard so that you don't even think twice whenever you're ordering your next game. And we do a lot of things right for that to happen. So please, if you haven't given us a shot, please give us a shot and share with a friend. It helps immensely.
    158:32
    There's nothing else to say about it. Trade any game if you want to. We've got some cool stuff coming in 2026. Some really cool stuff coming in 2026. We're trying to make buying pinball machines and owning pinball machines better and better every year. All right. Flippin' Out Pinball Media Channel is Joel at Flippin' Out Pinball YouTube. He's Winchester Mystery House Tutorial, Jurassic Park Tutorial, Monster's Tutorial, and recent gameplay videos of James Bond, L.E., The Hobbit, Winchester Mystery House, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast with Ken and Greg. They've done some recent episodes, and they're doing 10 days of giveaways as well. So go follow, like, and subscribe there. go to patreon.com slash the pinball show and see what Dennis and I are voting for the best of 2025 in the pinball show awards do it right now Dennis, what can you tell these people? I'm going to tell them hope they have a really good Christmas because we won't be back before then look forward to seeing what they think the best game of the year is and I hope they get some time to hang out with family and friends and play some pinball that was really nice that can be nice Always practice safe pinball, and God bless us, everyone.
    159:43
    Timmy's still losing that leg. Oh, his gout? What caused that? I think a lack of insurance. Thanks, Jake. Where are your khakis at? Yeah, Jake from State Park. It might be property casualty. Well, casualty, I suppose.