17:31o uh with all that said the game is um franie crushed it like the art on the game the game looks so beautiful in person it looks and the topper is obscene in person it's it's um if you're looking on the video uh Once Again the video on our YouTube channel um if you do look you will see that this game is a few inches higher than the other ones um there was an issue nothing with flipping out there was an issue with um the delivery of another game there was a missing leg so so they gave they gave one of the Evil Dead legs uh in the meantime uh once again nothing with flipping out there so they made it right so when this game appeared to me it only had three legs and we got creative so we put four Stern legs on it just so I could stream the game so this game is currently on four Stern game Stern legs which is why it's higher it's a widebody so it just feels like an XEL game in all in all areas it's taller and it's could you imagine you unbox a game and you're like there's three there's only three legs what do I do but Travis you're a stuff happens you know this you work for a pinball distributor stuff happens honestly here here's what I would do I would run out buy a bar stol and just put it in the back of the game well I get it you I understand put the two legs on yes I mean that would be my temporary solution but anyways go ahead Joel they made it right and I got creative to make this right and this is this is so it's it's on Stern legs so it's taller so I just I don't want any Evil Dead buyer to see this and be like what is not going to line up no no it's it'll fit well now this topper though will stand out in it in your collection because it's incredible uh my wife also put two bobby pins in the hair for me because the hair was like all down in front of the face and and I was like Nicole can you like put her hair back so I actually have a good picture I'll add that picture now I'll add that picture now my wife I don't you know she just kind of but anyways uh Evil Dead Travis you have played Evil Dead what are your initial impressions of Evil Dead to let the listeners viwers know what they should expect when they play it at tpf we're just the same as last week I'm sorry I can't I can't right now between legs and bobby pins and I know Tom Tom being in bed with his wife for a week I mean we're we're kind of all over the place right now listeners to punch him in the face welcome to Triple drain everybody this is I share my fantasies with [Laughter] everybody oh I mean we could really dive in on which part of all of that is your fantasy but uh let's yes okay all right explains why he has so many kids yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um okay what I will say Joel's getting so yeah let's on topic no I just I don't even know what to do at this point we've we've uh I would say the episode's gone off the rails but the ra the episode I don't know if the episode even started on the rails it's because it's Friday I know and we've all had technical issues in this is a six Place podcast effort right here guys I'm super proud of us yes yes yes uh so what was your question Joel by I asked you if you want to if you want to share more thoughts on Evil Dead before I do you're welcome to at this point no I mean I just played a couple of games on it it's fine it was fun it was a pinball machine Evil Dead one Evil Dead too I mean it's yeah I think it's it's one of their more interesting games they've come out with I'm more interested in this than Texas Chainsaw Massacre then uh Looney Tunes sorry I'm still trying to keep it together you're good Tom um yeah so that's it yeah that's that's all I got great that's a solid review I will say I want to I want to play more at tpf I want to play with you guys I want to play it down there with you know bug or Luke by there so that way you know kind of like when they explained out Texas Chainsaw Massacre to us that one year Joel that way we can kind of get super helpful yeah that way we can get more explanations because I'm genuinely curious you know it's um horror it's interesting because I watch a lot of it like on my downtime as movies like always have since I was a kid so I'm fascinated by it as a pinball machine because obviously you know it's it's a very Niche thing of a niche thing that they've carved out so I'm always interested to see how that can be integrated in and Evil Dead is just such an interesting franchise because I I personally don't really like the first two movies I've seen them like several times because I just you know for whatever reason I've just been in different situations to see it but um the third one Army of Darkness like I really like like that one I really enjoy but it's just it's interesting because when you look at Evil Dead if you watch the movie if you never watched it you'll watch it you'll be like how the F can this be a pinball machine like how do you how do you even begin I think that's the feeling everybody gets so the fact that they figured it out it seems like they figured it out is like to me that speaks volumes about what they have going on there now it may not be somebody's cup of tea if they're not into horror or into having you know that type of topper in their basement because they got to cover it up all the time like Joel does but you know there's obviously a group of people out there that thoroughly enjoy that so that's good that they're able to create a product that serves that particular Niche or that particular customer base I agree there's uh what I will say with Evil Dead I've only seen the first one I actually watched earlier this week I need to watch the second one before that I stream it next week but um uh if you're a fan of Evil Dead you will they they did the property Justice like you they this they have it's all there the the um the audio clips the video clips the art is is on point and then honestly the way it's set up uh you have four modes that are that are based off of the first movie you have four modes that are based off the the the second movie and the modes are are awesome they're they're story based modes like you are playing out a scene you're playing out something that happened in the movie so you're not living in the world of Evil Dead like no you're experiencing the the situations that the that the people faced I was very curious how [ __ ] was going to work uh in pinball but um honestly one of the one of the modes you're being chased by evil and you have to at one point you have to hit a bunch of shots and then you have to hide so you can hide in in any of the areas that you can lock a ball so the Celler or under the ramp and then like the machine goes dark and so you're focusing on the LCD where like ash is like peeking out and then there's like a jump effect so it's like they really brought a lot of the theme there's some of the modes um there's this hacker up I think hack them up or hacker up mode where you're hitting red shots and it's the scene where the guy's using the AE to chop up this zombie like lady and um every time you hit a red shot the knocker is going off so like not only do you see it on the screen but the audio package is fantastic you're hearing the chopping and the screaming the the the screen the the game itself is crazy lighting effects and then you have this knocker going off making this knocking sound while you're while you're hacking away um so long story short just because I I'm going to play this game a lot more my brother and I had a black playing this this week I I we a sucker I understand the three of us view pinball very differently um and I know you guys typically view games with a tournament mentality you guys want to find a path you want to find a repeatable reliable way to points so I understand that even D and D you know we've had a lot of conversations about DN of like Travis has been tackling D and D in a different way than I do um not all the time I know you're doing the because I know at home you do wizard modes but I know you you got to remember Joel you're thinking of my own personal thing I also have to actively think of it from an end consumer point and the most consumers are not tournament Players so like I have to shut that off whenever I'm actually like formulating okay what is this game what does it mean what does it do what are the sounds like that's truly how I judge it like points are whatever like that's cool and all but honestly what we all have to do we all want to make a certain amount of progress in the game right some people want to get to a wizard mode some people just want to light a certain mode some people just want to play multiball right it's it's at different levels yeah so I think that's truly like kind of the way that that you look at it but no I agree I think all three of us look at it from the from the standpoint of what is our priority when enjoying pinball sure so for for some people it's absolutely blowing up a machine for others it's just trying to keep the ball above the flippers my yes and I know to me I just I love pinball moments I love I love the mini wizard modes are the unique experience with the game something on the game that that just stands out and and obviously and then I I want those moments I want to be able to share those moments with friends and family or anybody else that step up to the game so that's why I like you know on a Godzilla that my nephew of eight years old can hit the building and see the building fall down you know like and he can experience that moment but yet there's stuff in a game like Godzilla that's way deeper that are fun enjoyable pinball moments for all three of us at all three of our different levels um what I will say with Evil Dead is this game is full of moments um there are so many mechs in the game and they have different modes and different multiballs that all highlight different mechs and so um I think my only complaint with the game right now is to see a lot or experience some of these mechs like the lower Playfield um to right now to get to the lower Playfield there's only a few modes that get you there and the process of starting a mode is you have to a ramp and then hit under a ramp which is easy but to select your mode it's somewhat random you have to hit a cap to ball to scroll through your mode so it's like for for the average Joe if my whatever my wife came down and I wanted her to experience a lower play field we're kind of rolling the dice to see if we if we're lucky enough that she happens to get that mode um to experience the lower play field so there's little stuff like that that I that I'm curious how the the game's going to progress but as of right now it seems like a very fleshed out game all the modes are in the game um and we had an absolute blast playing it um for two hours and and we're looking forward to playing it more so if you have an evil dead on order I think I honestly think you're going to be um you're gonna enjoy this game you're GNA enjoy the game and I I highly recommend anybody at tpf to play it very unique layout um Tom are you gonna play it great we get you away from the tournament room okay cool just why make sure you don't have to punch anybody to to get to it or anything that's all if you're in line and I'm waiting too long I might punch you so but we'll just we'll just transition into tpf I mean that's essentially spooky spooky pinball is going to be down there they're going to have Evil Dead they're I think they're bring in 10 or 11 of them so there's going to be a bunch so try to hop on them um what I will say if you don't know what's going on uh to to start a mode you wna you're going to hit a white shot and then you're G to hit under the right ramp that's how you start your mode other than that it it communicates pretty well communicates pretty well what you need to do and how to do it to play the game so big thumbs up make sure you make time to play Evil Dead um let's transition to stern Stern Pinball I'm assuming will be mostly showing off Dungeons and Dragons probably Metallica because Metallica um yeah I would I would assume Metallica Dungeons and Dragons X-Men uh Jaws will probably be there Wick um there's going to be a bunch of games but I I would assume Dungeons and Dragons is going to be the main game they're going to be highlighting or having people play um there has been new code since I've played it last um but there's still most of the games there there's still uh two final wizard modes that aren't in it and one dungeon mode that I know of but um yeah nothing nothing crazy to report I mean maybe you guys have played it more than I have in the last two three weeks but anything else to report any new findings any new thoughts on D and D um well Tom I haven't really heard your thoughts on D and D what are I I haven't played it that much to be honest just because I've been I've been gone so much yeah um but uh yeah I I I don't really have an opinion of it right now um it it shoots fine but I I need to uh get deeper into the game yeah I think that's fair I Know Travis has made plenty of cont have you played it much yet Tom like how many games do you have so far like literally I played like five or 10 games I stre I streamed it one night and that's really all I had time for did you did you stream it on location or do you have one at your house oh it's right behind him I just saw he's got the cube that blue that's yeah your guy's screen so small I couldn't see it oh okay well crap what what are you doing talking us you should be playing pinball I know I've had other things going on too but as far as he's a busy man were you at a tournament recently I was at a tournament I ran a tournament well I helped run tournament it was me obviously but the Whopper Chopper is that what you talking about yeah the Whopper Chopper was awesome Tom put's in the work Travis you in the work I'm aware got to go to tpf in a week I me there's there is like no time no anything well yes play Dungeons and dragon I don't know who all will be there I assume Brian Eddie maybe Dwight I think Elizabeth geki all those people have you know obviously worked on the game so um if they're there say hi to them pull them aside um they'll they'll be happy to talk to you about the game um I'm looking forward to playing it I'm at a point I mean I've had people ask they're like do you miss it what what about this or that um I really enjoyed my time with DND D um I feel like being that I've I've played every part of the game right now I don't I don't actively miss it because I don't feel like I'm missing any out on anything but I'll tell you once they release the next wizard mode or the chance to unlock another character I very much so wanna want to play the game and and keep chipping away at it and and see how that game continues to flesh out um but yeah I I I really had a lot of fun with DND um but that I mean that's Stern that's that's that's Stern um jjp jjp uh unless they're going to announce something in the next three days or whatever I don't think jjp's gonna have anything new at uh at tpf my assumption would be Avatar um it'll still be Avatar I know CES are finally being delivered to the customers so maybe they'll have a CE on location or um at the show I don't really know um but yeah if you have an experienced Avatar hopefully tpf will be a chance to experience that um looking ahead though I do think a new jjp game is around the corner uh the rumor is Harry Potter um and I think that's going to be big even if the game it doesn't matter you've I mean Tom joked around that he would have bought rush if it had one pop Bumper in the middle of the Playfield but it's there are people I Harry Potter's gonna s it'll it'll sell it's going to sell regardless of what the game is so it's going to be big um and I'm I'm excited for jjp to see how that goes I mean once again that's a rumor though so if it's something else I mean it'll be what it is I mean uh Harry Potter is a theme I really love but I I I definitely want to see what's in the game [Music] and yeah how it's coded I've been really disappointed with like last year's coding for games I kind of wanted to talk about that of every sure of all most games most games most games seem really behind on code and um I mean where is it so let's Okay so we're talking about last year's games um so so let's start with uh what John Wick yep where's the code where's the code a AI there's a game there going but like there's no wizard modes or anything um you can tell some stuff on the Playfield isn't uh integrated yeah it's just kind of weird um obviously X-Men they rushed out D and D is got a lot of stuff going for it but there's been known crashes and things like that but um yeah I mean the speaking as a consumer it's not a good feeling when you buy these games and they seem like they're left for dead or at least you have to wait a year or two for the code to develop so yeah it's definitely it's it's a unique thing in pinball that I'm kind of seeing and I think I've talked to you guys about this off podcast before kind of what the general flow of this is through the lifespan of a game and I haven't really heard anybody else really put into words because I don't know unless you actually work in pinball and sell the games you really don't realize what's happening like in the middle at the beginning of a first run in the middle of a first run the end of it the beginning of a second run so on and so forth but what I've noticed a lot there is a lot of push back there coming from people that want to see rules or call outs or just any type of software-based feature a little bit further along than what it is out of box um now I'm not going to pretend like I know all the answers because Joel and I talked about this last podcast I have no idea what goes into coding a game or anything like that but what I do see is is what people's reactions are that are spending the money to buy these games early on and wanting to experience different parts of the game and I I fully am in the group that you need your first 10 minutes just to be super tight like nothing but focusing on that because that's what everybody on location's going to experience that's what a home user is obviously going to experience anybody that hits a start button that's what they experience now what I've noticed is if that first 10 minutes isn't tight the people that play the games are like if they're part of a message board pinside on a Facebook group whatever they're going to voice their opinion and they're going to let you know and that's strictly the pinball Enthusiast now here's what happens afterwards if somebody brand new to pinball discovers that this game exists they're going to use this little search engine called Google and they're going to look up information on it and when all they run into is pinside and a full thread of people bashing the game or a full thread of you know on Facebook they look it up and they see people you know talking about how well they're disappointed in this or they're wondering where this is or whatever that's like why would they want to go ahead and buy that game like it makes it to where it makes it awfully difficult for a second run actually happen and yeah and Discovery to happen six to 12 months down the road it makes it very difficult you know let let's be honest consumers have a very like first impression you know like I when I go up and I play a game for the first time I I want to enjoy the experience if I don't enjoy the experience I tend not to want to go back to the game so if the games aren't aren't um coded well functioning well uh it's it's it's a turnoff and that's I mean that's all valid what you're saying is all valid cuz I've seen the same same thing like full transparency I've seen the same thing with fun houses fun houses get out there they don't work correctly guess what that's going to piss somebody off they're going to tell everybody I guarantee you I could go on pinside right now and probably find a thread of somebody pissed off about that game we could probably wrote it I don't I mean we could probably go we could go anywhere and find something that somebody's pissed off about about some game and that and that doesn't mean at all that their opinion's invalid but what Tom's saying is hitting the nail on the head what really matters is how they feeling emotionally about a game and if you spend 7 to1 13,000 on a game and you get it in and you're playing it and yeah you're enjoying it for the first 10 20 50 games however long but then when you keep playing it and you're kind of wondering okay what's next okay what's next then you start talking with other people and you start getting other opinions I mean human nature a lot of us we will listen to opinions and it will have a formulation on what we think about something like that will be our filter true to what we're going to see so it's like anything else The Five People You surround yourself with or the five pieces of content creators that you usually consume that's the filter that you're going to see a lot of things through whether it's right or wrong that's what you're going to see so I really do believe that for all manufacturers like of course build quality that's number one but number two is getting the code like just really dialed in early on because if you get people praising your game that quickly and they're saying oh the codee's great oh yeah this is excellent oh this Mode's really fun they're going to post about that they're going to be your biggest cheerleaders and then new people that are looking up that game that's all they're going to see and they're going to feel good about that they're going to feel good about looking down that road for that purchase and Tom Tom is like saying everything right now he's he's preaching this is exactly what is happening like down down to the minute level that's what's happened yeah I will say um I I understand I'm in a unique position because I I have you know these games are I have a chance to play these games and just you know I have no uh Financial connected connection to them so it's not like I have this like guilt of like did I waste my money or anything I just have the game but I know a lot after that first two-hour stream and um what I mean by that is uh you know if if if in a two-hour stream I feel like I've experienced the game like to me that's not a game I want to own like if I can if I can fully experience the game in two hours like uh okay or like I want I want to leave that stream itching to to to to play it more to discover more so you know mechanically there's there's an aspect of that like like X-Men I I love the mechanical aspect of X-Men I love the kinetic satisfaction of shooting that game but I know within the first stream like okay all the modes are right there you can pick whatever one you want so it's very easy to to play all the modes because they're all available and then you beat two of them and you're in the future and it's like well uh you know check the box like it's like I experienced so you said you know Travis it's important that that first 10 minutes is tight my issue with X-Men is anybody can experience that first 10 minutes easily but then there's that's it like that's all they have and but there's a difference between experienceing it and is it tight enough to where it emotionally connects you to where you're like I want to I want to do that again yeah that's the difference that's the replay like anything's going to have a 10-minute experience we could go on any game have that are we going to want to keep having that experience and that's in pinball I always talk to you guys about you need these many hooks right it's just like content creation you need a hook to convince somebody that they want to plunge the ball you need a hook to convince somebody that you want them to hit a certain shot and you use that hook through call outs through light through just like a fun like connection right flippers to whatever shot flow you have and that all that's like super important I mean human nature is we're going to go back to what feels good we're going to go back to what makes sense and that's why we all have games right and anybody listen to this could probably could probably understand what we're about to say that multiple people that have multiple games in their collection there's always going to be one or two that you always go back to sure right it's like Old Faithful you're going to go back to it it's a good pallet cleanser that's a sign of a solid game for you and that game could be anything like for some people it could be wick for some people it could X-Men some people it could be evil dead some people it could be Galactic tank force I don't know people have different you know different opinions different wants but that's I I think that's really the key and like when I think of pinball I think of okay how can I make it to where somebody plays the game and they enjoy it the way that we want them to enjoy it because the behavior we encourage right is behavior we're going to get out of somebody like that's what they're going to do and so I'd rather encourage the behavior to to keep coming back to want to play different modes to want to do different Stacks to want to hear different sounds to explore the game because I think exactly yep that's that's where you get your money's worth right there I think you've explained that well because I'm now I'm thinking back on like okay um if I if I step up to a game of tpf that I've had that I've streamed it's like what is it that I want to experience like what is it that I'm missing so if I you know which which modes in D and D do I want to play because I miss playing those modes or which dungeon or which multiball or same thing with X-Men and and I think honestly right now there isn't a in X-Men when I streamed it there isn't any mode that stood out to me in a way that I like oh I can't wait to play that mode again because of whatever um um and yeah Wick is similar you know I I think I was so confused while playing Wick I like the layout uh but it's just like I really didn't know at the time the the modes really weren't coded in a way that there was no there was no information on the LCD to tell me what I was supposed to do so it's the modes are forgettable because I never understood them I never understood him so I I understand that that hopefully you know games like those can that can the code can really get fleshed out um while I think of some of my other games that I do miss where it's like yeah I can't wait to step up to play this to experience that and that's something that I know my brother when we finished streaming my brother I would he's above a novice but like he doesn't he doesn't really get he doesn't like dive into rules um but he was locked in on Evil Dead and and honestly the reason I'm excited to play it more is because all these level all these modes have two phases so it's like you can you can get pretty far into a mode and then you realize oh there's more there like there's a whole another phase to experience so some of these modes have already stood out to me and it's the beginning phase like I I want to dive back in to experience the the full mode now I fully trust the two of you guys are good enough players you could you know when you guys probably play this a tpf you'll probably beat the whole mode you'll beat every phase but um yeah you want that hook you're you're saying yeah which which games have really hooked me pinball moment or modes or something of like why am I pushing the start button again why do I want to play this again go deeper yeah and I think too where people tend to kind of go sideways on it is they get so enamored with a Mech right and a Mech can be cool it can be a central part of a pinball machine but how does that gel with everything else that you're trying to achieve in that game how what's the fusion of it with a light show with a sound with a rule otherwise it's just you know Mech that just moves or catches the ball but yeah that looks cool but we could also go see that at our local Science Museum doing something like that right you got you have to add everything else into it sure yeah it's got to make got to make sense for the game and the flow of the game and the story or whatever you want to call it yeah you can't just arbitrarily put mechs in a game and think it's going to be great it doesn't doesn't necessarily make a game great yeah it it well it's only great Tom and you guys remember this because we were all in offices once it's only great to the people that are basically within their first six months of pinball or they're super brand new never seen it before because it's the first time they've ever seen it they're like oh this is really cool but then when you start understanding what you like how you can control the flippers there's different rules there's different manufacturers there's different layouts then then that novelty tends to wear off a little bit and then you look at the additional layers on top of it and that's kind of key like we could probably all like here let's do this because I want to include you to in on this like what's the one game like in the past five years that you guys could think of that did have like a really cool Mech to it like any game to where you're like oh that's really cool that was super enjoyable I want to keep doing that just any anything any manufacturer past five years you said five years um you could we could say ever if you want to we could say ever well the two I and there's if I really thought about there's probably better answers but um I know just like playing Jaws I really enjoy um I really love the flip block Mech I really and I love the upper Playfield getting to the upper Playfield and trying to do like that's something that never got old um and then the other one that actually popped in my head which is probably because it's the only thing that I miss about the game but Toy Story the Duke kaboom ramp the Duke Kaboom ramp was such a fun Mech um in my mind oh I'm thinking that's the other thing with Jaws the having the moment where the fin pops up you know and having to hit that that is an enjoyable moment that everybody that played that game liked but the Duke Kaboom ramp is the one Mech and I know it's nothing crazy but it's like if I stepped up to Toy Story right now that's the only thing that I miss and that's the only thing I want to experience again like I want to hit that ramp um right but what about what what about hitting that ramp because if we just put like a little jump ramp in the middle like on a Whitewood and say yeah I hit it you're going to be like okay but like what else attached to that made you feel like okay like I want to keep doing this what else is there it's not always there and so you it's only for particular modes you got to hit a particular shot and you get one shot at it so if you miss it it's a it's a it's an experience you miss it's like crap I gotta I gotta hit the shot oh here's my chance here's my chance boom and it's so there's buildup same thing with the fin on on Jaws like def Fin's not always up it's not just a standup Target it's moving it's a moment take your shot try to hit it yeah that right there is a prime example because you're emotionally invested to completing it that's the key the game can get you to do that through any way that they make moves through any sound that you have through any reward that you have for doing it that's like the key that's the full package right Tom what what's yours I I was just going to say the f onj okay and prime example here besides just hitting the fin Tom like what else is associated with that like what do you do in order to even bring the fin up well you got to you start a multiball or like complete your encounter jackpot I mean that that's like once that comes up like you play scars and you're hitting all the shots and all a sudden that fin pops up you just want to nail it you know yep and there you go and it pops up red it you know see things change the visual cues the sound cues you know like when when the uh when the multiball progression starts and it's like kill it shoot it now now you know like that's an exciting moment in pinball right there yeah exactly and that's like truly like once you unlock this part in your brain and for the listeners out there viewers like think about that one Mech like you really really like and think about it outside the box of it's not just because of what the mech is it's the things that add on to it the surrounding atmosphere and that's really where you get the winners right there like that's what stands out so much more than everything else and when the lights the sound the rules around that could be excellent then that makes like the tight game right yeah absolutely so when we look at you know we could take X-Men for instance right like why is it not Jing with some people like why do people not like the X-Men hand or the Sentinel hand just like crashing down the ramp and the ball just like shooting down the middle or you know whatever like what about that isn't appealing to people because it because it's not rewarding when you hit a shot and the and a ramp breaks and the ball goes down the drain your ball HS yeah it it Hur you more than helps you yeah yeah I know I've said that before uh but yeah but yeah that was it's just a frustrating thing like you oh I made a shot oh it just killed me and there you and that may not yeah right and that could be prevented by not just allowing the mech just to do that and that's it it there could be a whole mode tied into that that you're actually battling the Sentinel but you have a ball save on while that's happening so you don't feel nearly as like honeydicked at the time that the ball's just shooting down the there's ways that you can work around that very true very true and yeah that would make that would maybe make that Mac more appealing and fun yeah absolutely cuz it's like yeah it could be a cool Mech obviously I'm battling a suel yes like obviously Jack put that in for it to be cool like right that's why it's there now it just needs to be implemented like there's too much time in that game if you play it it feels like obviously it's not random there is indications but for 95% of the people it's going to be random like they're not going to they're not going to see the visual Quee or the audio que the light on the hand yeah right they won't know well what I mean I do I do like X-Men but I think it's because of the shots but I think somebody somebody made the comments of like oh cool so shots they either said shots or ramps are the new Mech and it's just a sure there's kinetic satisfaction when a when the ball is whipping around and a unique way but I understand what you're saying that um if the mechs in the game aren't special if they don't make a moment if they don't bring you in if they don't if it's just there if it's just a bash toy that's always there you can bash it whenever you want all right prime example here Joel oh I'm Ready the the spinner on Evil Dead what do you think about it uh so the spinner on Evil Dead it's right up the middle you can hit it all day long but the one reason I like it is because the audio Cube is a chainsaw so when you hit it it's like it's it's it it makes you smile it makes you laugh there you go every time something so simplistic yeah right you can really draw it out aiq does that also with the spinner on the left the Hulk spinner where the gamma spins yep that right there yes and that's like the whole package coming together when the gam goes off I got to hit this thing like every every team out there is capable of doing this every single team out there is capable of doing it it's just a matter of taking what is usually in every pinball machine right could be a pot bumper could be a sling could be something like okay D and D like Elizabeth coming up with the stealth slings like that's something unique a sling is on every single game and now it's like okay I don't want to hit it because I want to you know not alert the guards or I could be like Tom and I want to punch the [ __ ] out of it so I'm just going to hit the slings anyway I'm for it so that's a good point she made a Mech she made that mode make a Mech you're right the slings are in every game it's so nobody's ever nobody ever considers that a Mech to like talk about or be excited about right that made exciting they made it exciting Point Iron Maiden did the same thing with the second tomb award when the slings become worth like 250,000 or something like that slings or something that yeah so now you're like oh I want to get mummy multiball or trooper with this so and put two or three x so I can keep something going it yeah that's what really meshes things together and makes it feel really good to even just do the simple things like that's the key I think uh I think that would be a fun activity to do is to sit down with you know look at each individual pinball machine and let's break down you know every Mech you know whether it's spinner drop Target standup Target anything and it's like is that piece of hardware at some point bringing like a value or like bringing an experience to this game that's Game Theory 101 game build 101 like every I I truly feel like if I was designing a game which I'm not I have no idea how to I'm just telling you my mindset to it maybe you guys have the same mindset maybe I have a different one if I'm building a game I want a reason for everything to exist in that and I want to try to make it it doesn't have to be the star of the show but I want it to chain together with something else to where it makes total sense for it to be there and it makes a player feel like okay it belongs instead of having a shot or a certain piece of equipment or whatever that just is like okay why is this here why do I want to shoot this I don't want I want to avoid that I just want to hit this instead you know it's like there's going to be a hierarchy of priority anyway of everything but you still want it to piece together and that's just proof right there like some people have figured out how to make slings Fun Some people have figured out how to make pop bumpers fun like Godzilla the saucer right that you you hit that pot bumper it starts a freaking multiball you know Rick and Morty figured it out like on uh the spooky game right that that was interesting say or even I was gonna the like TNA TNA has one pop bumper but the fact that it it the the light show goes nuts and the Shaker motor goes off every time you hit it it it makes it a it's that mini moment of just it scares you and um yeah think about that we're we're talking about a game with a pop bumper making like a standout moment a pop bumper yeah like we figured out slings spinners pop bumpers there you go you can do it that's a good those Mi are there yep um yeah that's for coming to my TED Talk yeah that's a good Ted so sorry everybody I started that but noas actually Travis and Joel made me feel better so no I think Tom I think you hit the nail on the head there's a lot of people feeling that way and rightfully so and I I mean it's like anything else I I think everybody in the pinball industry wishes that they could bring out a game that's like 100% po 100% done obious and I I I understand that you know the games aren't going to come out 100% but it it I mean it just seems like like some of these games are just forgotten yeah you're just saying you want you want the meat medium rare when it comes out you don't want it rare yeah that's all you're saying yeah I it's tough I it's I understand that's tough especially you know with like Stern they're still on three cornerstones a year rumor is they're going to throw in a remake as well I mean they're trying to put out a lot of product and um and I actually had that thought I'm not I'm not just here to talk up evil dead but it's like there's a difference when you have a company like spooky or a company like barrels of fun where the entire company is focused on one project for a year and a half and I understand Stern has design team so that design team has one project for 15 months maybe you know a year and a half but there's just something about when it's like when an entire company can put everything they have into one and focus in on one game that's why I was super impressed when Labyrinth came out the game was essentially complete but yet the team was actively participating in streams and adapting and adjusting the code based off of how they're seeing people play and then I'm seeing that with Evil Dead like Evil Dead sure I don't think the final wizard Mode's in the game but like it's it feels like a very fleshed out game and I know bug and Luke and others are actively watching the game and reacting and tweaking so you actually I'm excited to play Evil Dead I want to check it out for sure you did use the right phrase though and that's the key a game can be completely unfinished as long as it feels like there's something there and when you feel like there's something there then the game's on the right path it's when a player doesn't feel that something is there because if you don't feel like it's there you're going to tell everybody about it right if you feel like something's there you're going to tell everybody about that too and it kind of gives coverage you know for the future updates and future tweaking and all that yeah well we need to keep moving I I know we k a lot of time we killed a lot of time uh doing all of our uh all of our Tech issues um what I was gonna one one of the big reveals and and I don't have 100% confirmation on this but there's a very good chance that multimorphic multimorphic will have their next game at tpf they've they rumor to be portal correct that's the rumor the rumor is Portal um they have announced that Brad Albright is the artist they've announced that and then they also announced I think it's even Ian heroin heroin uh I have a hard time pronouncing it um trying sorry Bud he's either the game designer or the program he's highly involved so they they've already announced so these are two new additions Brad Albright his art is fantastic um so new addition to the game they have not announced what it is um um I do know loser kid loser kid's been doing a lot with um with multimorphic in the last few weeks feel free to check out their content if you're curious about it so I would assume you know watch them I will assume they'll be involved in the reveal in some way um but yeah I mean that's we're talking I mean I'm G to be at tpf exactly a week from now so sometime in the next few days that will be announced so we really don't have much to say otherwise play it if you've never played a a P3 system it's it's a unique experience all around uh I do think every game that they've released is getting like the it's only getting better in my opinion or they've improved upon it um with all that said the system is 10 years old at this point so I'm I just I'm curious how far they're going to push it if there's another iteration of the system coming I don't know I don't you know there are questions there but I think the only way to go from right now if you're not doing a new system and you're keeping with that you know that older system or just the P3 system in enal I think it's figuring out a way to get the the mechs the play field or anything anything to do with the module in front of the Scoops a little bit more like which goes against like what they really what their bread and butter is which is that interactive LCD screen or whatever you call it the screen in the middle right but I feel like saying okay yeah I feel like you got to get some mechs in front of the Scoops there like you got to get some shot paths going on that has to go beyond just the screen interacting with the ball yeah like that's kind of what I'm hoping to see with this next one like I I feel like we're going down that path right we can't always stick to the upper onethird of the Playfield I think yeah there's got to be a way to put something there to where it does come in front of there like I think Heist kind of did that the crane yeah but it's not a permanent Mech it's not like a Mech that resides on top of the no no I'm talking about something that's modular like if they could somehow figure that out I think that that would be a unique enough value prop that would make a game stand out a little bit more we will uh we'll definitely have to report back on that that'll be that's that's the one that I can think of that's the one new game I'm really confident will be there um barrels of fun you don't think barrels of fun will have I don't know barrels of fun is being tricky barrels of fun is being tricky they are Texas based what I'm saying they're being tricky is if you go to the TPS website tricky you can see the game list and right now the game list for barrels ofun is question marks so I think it's very I think it's highly probable that bars of Fun's next game will be there somebody told me the the rumor is Dune or something else there were two they said heard I've heard Dune and Goonies D andon rumored titles I have no comment but I I have no idea but those are the rumors I heard I personally am aan let the rumors fly but we will see we will see what happens uh either either way I was I've been March 21st Joel they do have they're doing a seminar at 7 to 8 so okay so we'll why would you be doing something on Labyrinth that's been around already for okay Year let lock it in then I'm just [Music] saying barel but yeah I'm just saying there's question marks there's all that but yeah the Dune the Dune and goon stuff that's interesting yeah that's I don't know I genuinely don't know I just know personally I was thoroughly impressed with Labyrinth uh when we streamed it and had it here and the game came out the gate very fleshed out well done um and I know I know it's David Vans and the rest of that company I mean they I was really impressed with Labyrinth all around so I whatever the next release is I'm I I think we're going to be in for a good time let me ask you this so I don't give away anything what's going to be your reaction if it's not Dune or not Goonies you happy about that or you be like depends on what the them interested yeah I'm just wondering are you guys all in that it has to be Goonies or it has to be Dune like you're like this is your Rush don't do anything for me like my my son would go crazy if it was Dune um but uh okay like I yeah I to me those those themes just don't hit home with me so do if it was Rush no just kidding they're going to redo Rush need another Rush game um Dune for me I loved the movies so it's like if they had movie aspects but really they have to have the sound they have to have the sound remember so that to me it's like if it was Dune there's so many well they need this this and this and if they don't have those then yes I would be let down um but if it's not doe that's fine I my I came away from Labyrinth as Labyrinth as a theme is not a theme that I love or or particularly care for but I loved everything else about the game I thought the game itself was really fun my brother talks about Labyrinth all the time wishes we had the game um so I've just always been excited for whatever barrels of funds next game is the first one was so good I have confidence the second one's going to be a blast so I'm very open-ended on I don't really whatever the theme is I'm excited I'm excited to see what it is so that's that's essentially the only two that we are really aware of that will be presenting a a new game or we don't know for sure barrels a fun possibly just based on looking at the website spe right multimorphic we just because they usually do that every tpf like last year was Princess Bride so yeah so we've yeah it's a lot different than a couple years ago you guys remember the insanity of like what was it 2023 with like seven games I think it Godfather Pulp Fiction Foo Fighters Scooby-Doo Scooby-Doo we've said jjp we're not expecting anything new Stern is going to be a lot of D and D spooky we've talked about Evil Dead multimorphic should have something barrels of fund should probably have something American pinball at this point I don't I don't think they're going to show anything new I don't even know where they're at as a company I don't even know if they're gonna have a booth I don't know what's going on uh ha is De you don't realize what they're doing right now American pinball they they changed into I I think like a manufacturer now like a yeah they're making a contract manufacturer yeah oh um cgc cgc has announced on their website it shows on their website it says cact Canyon with Saloon Mech so this is the r this has been the rumored SL somewhat shown uh new addition to Cactus Canyon remake which is behind me that um they're adding saloon doors in front of Bart and there's like one or two other little things um so if that's the case hopefully the the the goal of having them at tpf is to have people play the heck out of them for three days and if the mech survive and look good through all that testing hopefully they're at a point to actually start selling these upgrade kits with the Lyman 2.0 the Josh 2.0 does that include the code with it is that what they're going because if they are going to add a Mech there's you know there's nothing in the current code that would recognize the mech that is wild that a new mech's getting added on cuz it's that game came out November of 2021 it's been a little while like November 2021 and we're in 2025 so I know the big rumors with cgc are obviously we're waiting on that kit they're actually pumping they're they're building P fictions uh the the the Le version the higher version is people are already getting those I'm assuming they'll have P fictions there people are waiting for for them to officially announce the um the Medieval Madness remakes like hey put in your money now we're ready to sell them I don't I don't think we're going to see that at tpf Maybe I'm Wrong um what other companies am I missing Turner pinball will be there Turner ball is uh is making stuff um they're shipping games so I'm assuming people will have another chance to play uh Ninja Eclipse which is fun um I'm gonna offend somebody because I'm forgetting them uh I know well Dutch is Dutch or pinball Brothers um gonna be there and if so what would they would they have I'm not seeing a Dutch or a pinball Brothers on there cuz Dutch has wrapped up big Labowski and I think it's and they have moved on to um Alice so maybe there'll be an ALICE there maybe I don't know um you you think that uh that other smaller Alice pin like the little the little mini one's going to be there the Ki Kickstarter one yeah yeah the one with the mini ball I don't think there were I don't know the pop bumpers that make the air balls go and all that you don't think so kudos to them for finishing that Kickstarter though yeah they raised like 500,000 there's a lot of people that want mini pinball well hopefully it all gets fulfilled um well it's it's customer funded so you know or consumer funded so why not that's always worked in pinball I don't know I don't know I feel like I'm missing somebody so if I'm missing somebody s who you think you're missing I don't know it's always the the you know I've kind of red through the big ones on the exhibiter list American pinball is on there but on the actual seminars and all that I'm not seeing them but I do see that Steven B's going to be doing a X-Men rules seminar with Mike vinor so he's like presenting a Stern game so I don't I don't know if this exhibitor list is updated if American pinball don't think American has any employees that would present at this point I'm not sure I don't know maybe I mean maybe we'll get surprised and there'll be a new pinball already said Chicago gaming I'll go through it for you you said Chicago gaming Jersey Jack they're going to be there uh multimorphic