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Pinball Junk Drawer Episode 66 - Pinball Sherpa, Consumer Confidence and a Historical Viewpoint

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·34m 56s·analyzed·Feb 20, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Hosts discuss Stern's Sherpa philosophy, consumer confidence in manufacturers, and pinball history research.

Summary

Pinball Junk Drawer Episode 66 features hosts Foghorn Leghorn and Craft Brew Sally discussing basement renovations, Gary Stern's "Pinball Sherpa" philosophy of welcoming new players, consumer confidence in major manufacturers versus American Pinball, and a deep historical dive into pinball's evolution from gambling machines to skill-based games using newspaper archives from the 1700s onward.

Key Claims

  • Gary Stern advocated for the pinball community to act as 'Pinball Sherpas' and help newcomers get into the hobby

    high confidence · Direct reference to Gary Stern interview on pinball news show discussing welcoming new players and helping them learn

  • Consumer confidence in manufacturer support significantly impacts purchasing decisions for expensive machines ($10k+)

    high confidence · Extended discussion comparing Stern, Spooky, and JJP's reliability versus American Pinball's poor customer service (lunchbox not delivered after 4 emails)

  • American Pinball has a rumored Cuphead machine ready to release

    medium confidence · Mentioned as 'rumored cuphead machine that's ready to go' but hosts express uncertainty about whether it will materialize

  • David Fix was terminated from American Pinball during or shortly after a Loser Kid Pinball podcast interview

    medium confidence · Hosts reference recent pinball news show featuring Fix's first interview after being 'let go' from American Pinball, with a 90-day non-compete clause mentioned

  • Gottlieb machines were sold to the U.S. Navy during wartime to remind servicemen of home

    high confidence · Direct quote from Alvin Gottlieb 1965 newspaper article discovered through historical newspaper archive search

Notable Quotes

  • “We should all be like pinball Sherpa. Anytime someone is interested or wants to get into it as pinball enthusiasts, we should really help them. Show them how to fix things. Show them how to look for things.”

    Gary Stern (paraphrased by host) @ ~09:30 — Core philosophy advocating community welcoming of newcomers rather than gatekeeping

  • “If something breaks on your Spooky or your Stern or your JJP, they're going to take care of it for you. It's going to be fixed. But with American Pinball... I don't know if you're ever going to get one.”

    Foghorn Leghorn (host) @ ~20:15 — Highlights consumer confidence issues affecting purchasing decisions for $10k+ machines

  • “We're Selling Amusement, Nothing Else. The gambling type are those bingo ones without flippers... We only make machines that have flippers. They're not made for gambling.”

    Alvin Gottlieb (1965 newspaper article, quoted by host) @ ~47:00 — Historical distinction between gambling machines and skill-based flipper games

  • “They literally said 'thanks for your opinion but we're going to keep going' with their pinball parlors. That's why we'll always lose to Japan.”

    Foghorn Leghorn (host) @ ~42:30 — Commentary on how Japan's cultural acceptance of pinball vs. American regulatory resistance shaped industry development

  • “Don't go to Pinside right away. They're made fun of for asking a question. Just go to Pinside for Secret Santa. That's all you need from Pinside.”

    Craft Brew Sally (co-host) @ ~15:00 — Critique of Pinside forum culture being unwelcoming to newcomers

Entities

Gary SternpersonDavid FixpersonAlvin GottliebpersonFoghorn Leghorn (host)personCraft Brew SallypersonStern PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball's customer service failures (unfulfilled lunchbox orders, non-responsive emails) undermining consumer confidence in future purchases despite rumored Cuphead release

    high · Multiple references to unfulfilled lunchbox orders, four unanswered emails, year-long wait with no resolution

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts promoting Ladies Flip bootcamp programs and women's participation in pinball through workplace visibility (bulletin board postings)

    high · Explicit commitment to printing bootcamp flyers and posting at work to encourage women's participation

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Gary Stern's 'Pinball Sherpa' philosophy represents a call for more inclusive community culture versus existing gatekeeping on forums like Pinside

    high · Extended discussion of Stern's philosophy contrasted with Pinside's reputation for making newcomers feel unwelcome

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Gottlieb's 1965 distinction between gambling bingo machines (without flippers) versus skill-based flipper machines helped shift industry perception and legal standing

    high · Direct quotes from Gottlieb 1965 article: 'We only make machines that have flippers. They're not made for gambling.'

  • $

    market_signal: Historical narrative emerging from newspaper archive research showing pinball's struggle against regulatory opposition in US versus acceptance in Japan

    high · Extensive discussion of 1700s-1960s newspaper articles showing pattern of local opposition, legislation, and raids; contrast with Japan's regulatory acceptance

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.105

0:00
Now who's responsi- I say who's responsible for this unwarranted attack on my person? I say, I say, I say, pay attention now, boy. This is, of course, Foghorn Leghorn presents the Pinball Junk Draw. You all asked for it. I say, I say, you all asked for it now. You're gonna get it. Boy, oh boy, are you gonna get it. Go, I say, go away, boy, you bother me.
0:25
It's time for the one, the only, the often imitated, never duplicated, Pinball Junk Drawer. Big show. 66. My name's Foghorn Leghorn. With me as always, Craft Brew Sally. And we're the only show that gets reminded daily that they're fat from a Wii Fit Board. Oh, I'm going to punch that Wii Fit Board so hard. But it's already going, ow, ow, you're so fat, ow. Oh, it's constant. It's demoralizing every day, folks. What can I tell you? So you got a lot going on this week or since the last time we talked, Grafru? I don't think so. Yeah, we moved all of our machines. We did. I painted the basement. I'm doing it one segment at a time, and it didn't cost me a dime. So I have to pull everything. Well, it did. We pulled everything out, and I went with this gunmetal gray because we painted the basement in this, I guess it's called cyan. It's the cyan color. It's like a brightish blue. It was just a water treatment, like to keep moisture out. I don't know if it really works or not. A moisture barrier. Most things in the painting world are just like some mysterious claim that is, you're like, I can't prove this one way or the other. Right. But the initial plan was we're going to paint this, and then we're going to put walls up. Well, the walls idea has come and gone. So then I was like, well, this looks really weird and bright and odd. so we got gunmetal gray like a dark gray and I dumped a ton of glitter in it but you can't see that either so we're painting the walls dark as it should be for an arcade so we had to pull all the machines out and I painted and then we put them all back and even with a that's a lot of work I was really tired I gotta tell you we have that Namco rock and roll oh that thing is so heavy It's a ton and it's awkward, it's weird You know, it's on like this pedestal thing So we did the main cabinet, then we did that And then we labored over like What order Yeah, that was the hardest decision Yeah, it was hard, because we have all these Not all these, we have a row of machines And you're kind of like, well, how do you want to Put them, you know We were kind of like, we tossed around a whole bunch of different ideas I wanted to move the We got them much tighter Together We had them really spaced out pretty far. You could easily stand in between each machine. So we tightened them all up and brought them together closer, more down towards this thing because we turned the – we have like a bowling lounge. We have this Brunswick bowling table and chairs. It's like two sets of two. Yeah. They're authentic. Brunswick. From a bowling alley. And they're glow-in-the-dark, which is cool as hell. That's so neat. So we have this bowling lounge area that we're going to have near a bar that we've never made yet. Right. But we're going to. But it's near our bowler. Yeah. So it'll be like we'll put on our bowling shoes and play. We don't have any bowling shoes. Or, yeah, maybe we should have a bowling shoe party where everyone has to come with the cheesiest bowling shoes and shirts. Oh, that would be fun. Yeah. So anyways, now we moved all these machines around, and now I quickly came to the realization that I had to re-level them after Elvira started tilting, and I was like, ah, crap, which I didn't do yet. I'm going to because you have to take the glass off, and then I'll have to show crap-proof Sally how to set. I have one of those electronic levels, so I'll have to show her where to set them to three different places, and then I'll be underneath, and I'll be, okay, and I'll turn the leg like one quarter turn, and you'll be like, okay, now the other way. Then I'll have to drop it down and go to the other side because I'm really dim. This is going to take forever, but hopefully we'll get these all dialed in. I'm looking forward to it, to be honest with you, to get them leveled correctly.
Jersey Jack Pinball
company
Gottliebcompany
Pinball at the Beachevent
Marshall (Little Shop Games)person
Amazing Randoperson
Man Cave Medic (the Hammer)person
Rachelperson
Fox Cities Pinball Leagueorganization
Ladies Flip Wisconsinorganization
Pinsideorganization
Surly Brewing Companycompany
First Avenueorganization
  • $

    market_signal: Consumer confidence in manufacturer support is explicitly identified as critical purchasing factor for $10k+ pinball machines

    high · Extended discussion comparing major manufacturers' reliability and willingness to resolve customer issues

  • ?

    personnel_signal: David Fix departed American Pinball with 90-day non-compete clause; gave first public interview after termination on pinball news show

    medium · Reference to Fix's recent interview following being 'let go' from American Pinball; 90-day non-compete mentioned

  • ?

    rumor_hype: American Pinball's Cuphead machine rumored to be ready for release, but hosts express skepticism given company's track record

    medium · Mentioned as 'rumored cuphead machine that's ready to go' with hosts expressing uncertainty

    • 4:33
    Machines are... Maybe it won't always go in the outlay, man. No, it will always. No matter what. There's nothing other than putting a big post in the middle there that it can't go in there. Could you do that for me? I would never do that for you. That means you're not a good pinball player. Right. So that was a project, but it was kind of cool.
    4:53
    There's not a lot of news, really. Pinball at the Beach went off. Yes. And I guess that was a huge success. A lot of people that did get down there have been talking about it, which awesome. Congrats to Marshall. Congrats to Little Shop Games. Those are, of course, our original alliance. Allegiance, I guess, was with them and still is. We love Marshall. I have a funny story about pinball at the beach we'll talk about that oh you will? a little bit later?
    5:22
    I've been listening to a couple different things I have a kind of a research thing I'm going to talk about I was listening to various shows like I always do, trying to keep up and what is it? pinball news? they do like one a month and it's a pretty in-depth kind of deep dive where everyone is but they caught up with Gary Stern over in London.
    5:47
    And one of the interesting things, because Gary's interviews are very interesting. Yes, they are. You know, he speaks his mind for the most part, but he's also very intelligent as far as, he's not going to give away anything he doesn't want to. No. He's not going to say anything he doesn't want to, but he's pretty loose, you know. He's very funny. I think he's very funny. He is. This show also had A after Release American guy What's his name? Tom Fix I don't care, whatever The guy that got fired from American Pinball Mr. Fix Is that his name? I thought so I don't remember his first name David Fix It had his first interview after that as well After he got fired? Yeah, because I guess like it happened during his interview kind of with Loser Kid. Well, wasn't he like saying a lot of stuff he probably shouldn't have been saying? Or was this after he got fired he was saying all this stuff? No, well, I don't know.
    6:54
    It's shrouded in confusion and mystery, but I will say, it seems to me like this was probably already set in motion. I honestly do not believe for one second that what is said on some podcast was the direct result of like it would the train was going that way anyway you know in my opinion that's just my opinion i could be completely wrong so he did the loser kid then he was then the contract was up however they want to say it let go and then he did this one so it was interesting to hear some of the talk and some of the pulling the curtain back a little bit more and i guess there's a 90 day non-complete clause. So more will come of this after the 90 days. I think. But again, whatever. But one of the things I thought was really interesting, which I kind of want... I wish everyone would be... embrace this. This is what Gary Stern had said. He was kind of saying like we should all... He said it oddly though. He said we should all be like pinball Sherpa. And I was like, what the hell? is he drunk? What are you talking about? Which he could have been, but it was like he was kind of saying like anytime someone is interested or wants to get into it as pinball enthusiasts and as we are, we should kind of really help them. Or even like, hey, show them how to fix things. Show them how to look for things. Oftentimes I think new people are just hit with a wave of negativity. Honestly, and just like pushed out. They're like, why would I want to join this group? they seem like jerks you know and i and i always think like we should if we really did love pinball and love that kind of thing we should be more uh inviting or kind of saying hey this is how you do this I don know It was really neat when he was talking about that I thought it's kind of saying we should all really engage with people that are interested in it to get them involved. Help them find that first fixer-upper or the first one that's going to be okay enough and then they'll catch the bug or maybe they won't. But it was something that struck me as a pretty kind of a cool thing to kind of always embrace. And that's funny because I started a new job back in the very end of December. And I became Facebook friends with a couple of other people that I work with. And one of them is a pharmacist that lives right around here. And so she's like, so I was looking at your Facebook and there's a lot about pinball on there. can you tell me about that so i just like she's like how did you get into pinball and then i was just like well we started like because you had gotten a machine and you had restored it yeah so and then i was like and five machines later here we are yeah she's like that's really interesting and i said you know if you want to play you should go to lumberjack johnny's because they have a bunch of them there try them right and because we also i think i think a lot of people still think ding ding ding right goofball stuff you're like no listen the code is very elaborate right these things are as coded as like your car honestly there's so much going on and there's so many side quests and different things you know so i it's it's and i because whenever there's one of those boot camps if i hear about it early enough i always print the thing out and put it at my work because I want ladies flip. I want everyone to feel welcome and be welcome. There is one. You know. Did you print the most recent one? No, I didn't. Okay. I'll have to. Yeah, let me, like, let me. There's one at the beginning of March. Oh, perfect. Because then I'll print it out and I'll just hang it up. There's an employee bulletin board. Yeah. I want more people to like this. Right. The healthier it is, the better it is. The more people that like it, the better off we all are. You know, and I know, you know, I don't know why it's the human condition to like kind of make fun of or... If you don't know about it, you make fun of it. Yeah, but I mean like when people try to get in, then they're like just, you know, they go on Pinside and they're like, my God, why would I want to be part of any of this? Don't go to Pinside right away. Like they're like made fun of for asking a question. You're like, look, they honestly don't know. Just go to Pinside for Secret Santa.
    11:16
    That's all you need from Pinside. So, as always, I'm going to say, you know, follow Gary Stern's lead and be a pinball Sherpa. I'm going to make a shirt. I'm going to trademark that, pinball Sherpa.
    11:29
    That would be funny. I'm going to. Okay. Oh, while I'm thinking of that, a huge thanks to everyone that's been buying our merch. You know, we've been seeing people buying our merch at Silver Ball Swag, and it's always appreciated. thank you for being loud and proud and wearing the pinball junk drawer stuff out in public and also if you would like a sticker just send us an email we sent a couple off someone said they wanted one for their meme cabinet oh what was that I can't remember his name oh my goodness I'm sorry I have it it's right at the tip of my tongue why can't I think of it it's the amazing rando that's right the amazing rando I wanted one for his main cabinet, so he is proudly displaying. They're very sparkly. So we sent him an extra just in case he wanted to put it somewhere else. I made sure that we have the shiniest, sparkliest ones they'll ever see. The most giant stickers there are. I've seen bigger. Have you?
    12:32
    So some of the other things, I was listening to a lot of different stuff, of course. And one of the things that did strike – also struck me as I was listening to people talk about – mostly about American, because now there's this rumored cuphead machine that's ready to go and blah, blah, blah. And it might, but it got me thinking of how much consumer confidence matters. Right. Like, for all the complaining and all this kind of stuff, if something breaks on your Spooky or your Stern or your JJP... They're going to take care of it for you. It's going to be fixed. Right. Probably CGC. I don't know. I don't have anything from them I want to, but I can never seem to... I would love to have one of their Attack from Mars remakes. They are gorgeous machines. But, you know, like, that matters a lot. It does. These are very elaborate machines. These are as elaborate as a car. I know Pinside loves car analogies, but there is a lot going on in these machines. And if something doesn't work, I know that the big hitters are going to take care of it. I don't know.
    13:42
    You can get a Cosmic Carnival. How the hell are you going to fix that? I know there's groups that have them. People that do have them, they are out there. Or what if you've got a Big Bang Bar? Well, you're on your own, man. Yeah. And that's part of the, like, having that confidence. All those years of research and all those years of learning trial and error, that's when you step up to a stern and now even, like, a spooky. Yeah. They have all that years of, like, stuff behind them. You know, you know it's going to be fine. And I kind of still have a bad taste in my mouth about American because of that lunchbox. I'm sorry. It's a stupid lunchbox. But, like, seriously. Yeah. You know, you could have sent me that. I emailed them at least four times and not a single response. And then a year later, you know, it's just, is that what's going to happen when they tell me that they're going to send me a part? Who knows? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you don't know if you're ever going to get one. Right. You know. So, and that's, we're not, I'm not bashing America. No. I don't know what's going to happen. Nobody knows what's going to happen with it. No. Nobody knows if we're ever going to see a cuphead. And if we do, maybe it'll be a huge hit. I don't know. Who knows? But it's just one of those things where I was thinking through that kind of like, yeah, that does matter. Because even when I complained about Stern's customer service a little bit here and there, they're not always the shining example. But if you really need something done, it's going to happen. It's going to be a working machine.
    15:18
    And, you know, we got an email because we mentioned it on the show. Yeah. Like somebody was listening to our show and mentioned it, and we talked about it. And followed up, and I'm like, no, you guys are rock solid, you know. Right, and that was awesome. You think that's going to, we didn't hear, we were bitching about that lunchbox, we didn't hear nothing. Yeah, right. So, I don't know. Again, whatever. We're not, this isn't dog blood. No, I know. It's just, you know, that, I'm not confident in what, you know what I mean. Can you imagine peeling off 10 grand for something and not having the confidence? No, I wouldn't. I couldn't. I would say no. Yeah, you know. So we did, on those happier subjects, we did get an email. And I believe for this email, we're just going to say, stop. The hammer time. Yeah. We got an email from Man Cave Medic.
    16:09
    He said he's been listening for a long time and never got around to sending us an email. So he just wanted to say, hey. Thank you very much for listening. Yeah. Thank you so much. and he's involved in the Fox Cities Pinball League, which is local to us, and he said he's going to try to host a ladies' flip sometime soon. So hopefully him and Rachel can get that worked out. But the reason he reached out was because he heard that you're trying to do 100 pinball machines this year. Trying to play 100 different pinball machines this year. Really? Yeah. I think we better get to it. I know, right. He said he has 17 in his collection, so. So there you go. Awesome. Well, thank you very much. We're just going to go by the Hammer. I think every listener is going to have their own wacky nickname. Right. Yeah, the Amazing Rando. Now we've got the Hammer. This is Shady. Although Skater Glenn is kind of just Skater Glenn. No, it's not Skater Glenn. No? Oh, it's Slippy Slappy Saliva Salamander Glenn, I think. I don't think Glenn's in it at all Samsonite oh my god we going to have to start a spreadsheet that I do not have any access to All right So thank you very much for the email We will do a Harry Potter update This muggle has watched yet another Harry Potter. What is this one? You have watched three Harry Potter movies. And I slowly turned to Crapper and I said, how many of these are there? And you were like, I don't know, like 20 or something. No, there are seven books. But I think the last two movies, it might just be the last one movie, is two parts. And I went, I don't think I'm making it through this. You're going to make it. I don't think I'm going to. I have faith in you. You know, I watch a lot of movies. I don't know if you know this about me. Me? Oh, yes. You know it. I don't know if everyone knows it. And I usually watch really, really bad movies. The more painful, the better for me. And not the new, like, squirrely stuff. I'm talking about the really old, one-off stuff. Like the black and white stuff. Yeah, like Deathbed, The Bed That Eats, or Death Race 2000 or just stuff like that. And I really do actually enjoy it. These Harry Potter movies, there's a couple things that are just, like, grinding my gears, as they would say. Grinding your gears. As Peter Griffin would say on Family Guy. Like, there's a reference anyone remembers. It's like any time, like, they all start off with that horrifyingly, like, this family that he has to live with. And it always starts there. and it's like they're just like the most the worst people that have ever beaten children they're just horrible from the second you see them they're just disgustingly horrible you will find out later i know well then but then and then anytime you see anything from slytherin there's that little moppet guy with the like the blonde or the the white moppet head and he is literally he makes the he is the epitome of evil like he's you remember in uh can you tell me his name wait remember in in a multi-pass movie when gary oldman like has that black stuff coming out of his head because the the pure ball of evil of the universe he's driving that ball this kid mouth mouth floy is like oh i'm so evil and i'm a little jerky jerk and i'm like you know after you establish somebody's evil yeah you can dial it back from 11 you don't have to cook on high You get it hot at high, then dial it back to six or five. You don't have to choose scenery and be the most evil, evil McEvilstein every single moment that the cameras pointed at you. And it's just like, oh, my God, it's relentless. And you're like, okay, we get it. He's the bully. He's the idiot. All right.
    20:06
    Done. Noted. That was noted three seconds in. Now you can just kind of move on from that. And what did you say his name was? I don't know. Moppet McGee. I think his name is. But anyway, I am starting to also see, back to Pinball, because nobody's here for a movie review.
    20:23
    That's at slowrobotagogo. So you can go to slowrobotagogo.wordpress.com, and I've done many reviews of many B movies. Not Harry Potter, though. No. If you're looking for that, don't bother. Don't bother. There's a searchable database. If you want to see if I've talked about a movie you think I should have, go there. uh the um the like there is no way you could do one machine no i'm three in and i'm already like wow this universe is gigantic yeah so they it could be done it can easily be i'm sure it could be but it would be like a very general well it's going to be pick your house pick your and then they'll have a set number of quests and that's it i mean but i was like wow this is a very very deep well-established universe like and i'm only three in and this is the movies this isn't even the books so i guarantee if you're reading those books there is kind of all kinds of wacky it's like star trek you know like or star wars how all those people in the background all have names and crap that no one could care about unless you really really like that you know and you're like oh what about that thing i'll be like i don't i don't he was on screen for three seconds i don't care about that guy in the back he stepped in poo or something so i don't know it's just but you can see like there is a challenge to make this representative of what Harry Potter is right without stripping away so much that it's just like a, who cares, you know? Right. So it's still, it's interesting. I can, I will not go on record saying I'm going to make it through all 28 movies, but I'll, I'll continue on. I'll do my best. Oh my God. Look at it. We're so far in. I do have one more kind of, I wanted to make this the main thing, but I don't know. I'm just going to probably lightly talk about it. So the main thing I had for today was I've been... Now, we subscribe to an online service that scrapes all newspapers. I don't know. You can't say all newspapers. It's a lot. A lot of newspapers from the 1700s on. And what I've been doing is I've been kind of doing a search, casting the net by decade of pinball. And I even started like 1700s and worked through, because of course, obviously, the first century there was like nothing. And then the ones I did find in the 1800s were like talking about those little balls that you put pins in, you know. And so that was, but now. A pin cushion. A pin cushion, yeah. But now, then in the 30s, I started getting hits. And now it's started to think, and immediately I was talking last time about how it was gambling machines, gambling machines, gambling machines. So now I've gotten through the 40s and the 50s.
    23:08
    And it's been very curious because they every as I'm reading through these these articles and so that it's a lot of the same. It follows the same flow like there's a lot of machines and people are spending too much money on them. And then some local church guy slash politician guy team up. We got to save the children, banish the machines. Legislation starts. then there's cops raiding or cops being accused of being paid off and not raiding. And it follows the same kind of pattern, like area by area, city by city. It was an interesting one where Japan had fallen in love with our pinball machines, and then they started, of course, their pinballs, which is more like the pachinko style. and there was a it was this is an osaka in like in the 1930 or 1940s and it was some article where they were basically like yeah that's nice that the local church thinks that in japan but we're okay they literally like now we don't thanks for your opinion but we're gonna keep going and they did and i was like that's why we'll always lose to japan sorry folks that's they're better than us at most things and is that opinion right there they're like we value your opinion but we're going to go ahead and keep these pinball parlors going because people like them but i did happen upon now in the 60s frankfurt kentucky sunday july 25th 1965 it's an article by alvin gottlieb so gottlieb uh the 37 year old chicago executive uh who's the company manufacturers a pinball and And he talked about, the title is We're Selling Amusement, Nothing Else. And it's a one-page article where they did a lot of quotes from him. And he talked a lot about the distinction between the pinballs, because they just were saying pinball machines, pinball machines, pinball machines. But he's like, no, the gambling type are those bingo ones without flippers,
    25:16
    where you are just literally gambling. and those were mostly just for gambling. And then the transition to the skill game with flippers and stuff like that because he even had said, we only make machines that have flippers.
    25:31
    They're not made for gambling. So it was a great article, and he talked a lot about some of the things, how it came to be where people were considering gambling and how, as he even said, the U.S. Navy, they sold a whole bunch to the U.S. Navy. They bought several hundred machines from Gottlieb for the armed services, and they shipped them overseas to them because they're kind of like, they want to remind them of what they have back home. Right. So Gottlieb sent off some of their flipper pinball machines. But you can see he already starting to help them turn the tide by saying no no yes there is a distinction between the two and you have to make that The new machines aren those And that's even what they talked about a little bit in that Roger Sharp movie, The Man Who Saved Pinball, kind of saying, no, these are games of skill. And as soon as they introduced the flippers and some of the other mechanical devices, it moved from that, you're shooting 10 balls, maybe you win, maybe you don't. Like the blue ribbon we have from 1934. That's a gambling machine. Yeah. You know, you literally have 10 balls and you're trying to see how much score you can get and then the bartender would give you something if you were good at it. Yeah. So it's very curious. I have been very much enjoying this. I have a feeling I'm going to have to start going year by year after like 50s to 60s there was still a lot. But I think I can get through that. I think 60 on, I'm going to have to, like when I'm doing these research, I'm going to just search year by year because of the amount. It's obviously going to spike out, you know. So real curious, really, really interesting. The history of pinball is very engaging to me. So I've really been digging in and trying to learn more and see a little bit more about what went on before our time. It's been really cool. I'll probably try not to bog down the show with some of this but I really did love that Alvin Gottlieb article. It was really cool. So there you have it. And I think it's time that I drop in the music cue for everyone's favorite segment. What do you think, Craft Brew? I think it's time. Craft Brew Sally Gonna have to put your journal down Craft Brew Sally time You've been to all the breweries around You've been running all over the town Oh, tell me what to drink until I fall on the ground, yeah That's right, people.
    28:24
    Plus One The house lights dim and the first chord rings out. You're side by side with friends you've known for 15 minutes or 15 years. The vibe's electric and the music is loud. Let's get this started. Brewed in collaboration with First Avenue, the last great rock club, we present Plus One, a classic easy drinking golden ale appropriate for whenever or wherever the music gets you. Plus One, you're on the list. how was that read that was awesome yes so obviously we're talking about a plus one by surly brewing company out of minnesota you're on the list you're gonna you guys are gonna get sick of hearing me go you're on the list so this was a really good beer and that venue is a really awesome venue so it's a golden ale what makes it gold nail do you know I'm sorry I don't I know there's like all these different classifications well if it's a top down you used to bring in the stuff I shouldn't learn more about like it's in your name I know you're on the list crap you we saw Otobaki Beaver at First Avenue yes we did the drinking choir the boys and girls drinking choir from Korea Right. Yeah. And there was someone before them, but. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this was a really good beer, and if you ever have the chance to see something at First Avenue in Minnesota, you should definitely try it. I was shocked, too. Yeah. It was really cool. It was. You know, and they had, when you walked down the outside, they had all those, like, all the names of the people that were there, and there was so many. Yeah, it was, like, Prince and. That's the main, not the main one, but that was one of the main ones that was, like, really highlighted, but it was like Nirvana and like all the Johnny Cash was like on both sides. So awesome. Both sides of the street. Yeah. It was like painted black with silver stars with the names underneath. So brewed and canned by Surly Brewing Company, Minneapolis and Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. Now we were at Surly. Yes, we were. Surly was really a nice venue. Yeah. That was the one that had the huge restaurant slash brew house, brew pub. I think they actually do smaller concerts there. Oh, yeah. You can see that. That was actually that one that we were out in California.
    31:07
    Drove to the top of a mountain. Oh, Sierra Nevada in North Carolina. You could tell that was set up for concerts. I guarantee they get going up there. Yeah. so you said this is a great beer it was a very good beer you've had a lot of other Surly's I have yeah everything that I had from Surly when we went to the brewery was really good and I have sought them out now that we have Total Wine here because they bring some of the local-ish stuff I mean that's not local but it's only four hours away Oh, nice. And, yeah. Surly. I think they're, yeah. They make like a lemonade shanty that's really good.
    31:57
    So there you have it. Just go to Surly and then you're on the list. Plus one. All right. So we thought we were going to have time for a twofer today, but we don't have time for a twofer. So what are we going to have next time, Crafters, Sally? Well, we were talking about pinball at the beach. So I had sent out a message to our good friend S to the fourth or fifth power.
    32:28
    Sure. And I was like, hey. Skateboarder Glenn. Yeah. As the world knows him. You're going to pinball at the beach, aren't you? And then I said, you should really go to Arcane Brewing Company or Arcane Ale Works. What the hell are you talking about? He's like, no pinball this weekend, but we're going to the Keys. So I don't know how I thought he was going to pinball at the beach, but. Yeah, it's cool. So he did have a submission for us for next time. He gave me his Key West beer list. Oh, nice. All right. So next week we will be talking about. Yep. We've got Skateboarder Glenn's approved or disapproved list of Florida Keys beer. Yes. Nice. You're on the list.
    33:18
    All right. That's going to do it. You got anything else for this week? Go and visit projectpinball.org. You'll be glad you did. Yeah, go ahead. Won't you? Thank you.
    33:29
    They're a really great 501c. I'm sure you've heard them. If not, go check them out. If you haven't, you have been living under a rock because we talk about them all the time. Yes. Or you don't listen to the show. You checked out. You're like, these guys suck. Oh, man. Yeah. So, yeah, they're a 501C. Puts pinball machines into children's hospitals and keeps them running and sets them on free. And do a little bit of good for kids that really could use a little bit of good. Partnered with Ronald McDonald House. They always have raffles and you can buy stuff on their merchandise, which, of course, a portion will go towards all the charity. and I'm sure some goes to keeping them going. And if you don't want to win a pinball machine, you can always just give them money. I guess that would work too. Look at you. A little rich girl over here just giving away money. All right. So anyway, yeah, go check them out and support them. Thanks for listening. We are always very appreciative of, you know, all your emails. And thanks for buying our merch. Silver Ball Swag is where it's at. I keep thinking I want to do a silver ball swag for our We Suck It video games. I know. But we don't really do that as often as we do this, so I don't know. We'll see. All right. That's it. Thanks for listening, one and all. We'll see you next time on the Pinball Junk Drawer.
    34:46
    That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over.