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Star Wars Vs Beetlejuice | Which Rumored Title Will Win?

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Jul 22, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Loser Kid discusses Jack Danger's Stern role shift and Star Wars pinball rumors amid summer slowdown.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss summer doldrums in pinball news leading up to Chicago Expo 2025 (October 15-19). They highlight Jack Danger's new role as head of community at Stern, transition from game design to community engagement, and rumors of Star Wars as Stern's next major title, debating whether to revamp the original or pursue newer Star Wars IP.

Key Claims

  • Chicago Expo 2025 is marking year 41 of the event, held October 15-19

    high confidence · Josh states this directly as an upcoming event marker

  • Jack Danger has been appointed head of community at Stern, transitioning from full-time game design

    high confidence · Direct reference to Jack Danger's announcement and his Q&A responses on Deadflip page

  • Tim Sexton left Stern for CGC/Play Mechanics, affecting code continuity on recent releases like John Wick

    high confidence · Josh explicitly mentions Tim Sexton's departure and the downstream impact on game support

  • X-Men playfield has challenging dial-in issues due to its unique layout design, affecting consistency across machines

    high confidence · Scott and Josh discuss X-Men's hit-or-miss performance and layout complexity

  • Star Wars is the next rumored Stern title, likely episodes IV-VI rather than newer Disney trilogy

    medium confidence · Scott speculates on licensing restrictions making older films more viable; both discuss likelihood

  • Harry Potter has outsold all recent Stern games since Godzilla over the last two months

    high confidence · Josh cites Harry Potter's sales performance as exceptional and unexpected

  • Jack Danger's strengths lie in community engagement rather than project management/team leadership

    medium confidence · Josh and Scott analyze Jack's skill set and why the role shift makes sense strategically

Notable Quotes

  • “This is the doldrums right before we get into Expo”

    Scott Larson @ ~2:00 — Contextualizes seasonal news cycles in pinball industry

  • “I freaking love game design. More info on that soon.”

    Jack Danger @ ~20:15 — Jack's response to whether he's stepping back from design permanently; indicates future involvement

  • “Jack thrives in the spotlight. Being a project manager—it's not, in many ways, it's a glamorous job.”

    Josh Roop @ ~32:45 — Analysis of why Jack's transition to community role aligns with his strengths

  • “Why are we letting the most engaging guy on our staff—why are we letting him hide behind a development wall when we could be using him for other things?”

    Scott Larson @ ~35:20 — Reframes Jack's role change as strategic business optimization rather than demotion

  • “It's like unmatched by anything else since Godzilla. It's just doing super well.”

    Josh Roop @ ~42:30 — Harry Potter's exceptional sales performance exceeding expectations

  • “Star Wars is the center cut of the watermelon—like all neat, no seeds, right?”

    Scott Larson @ ~48:00 — Characterizes Star Wars as most marketable and universally appealing IP in pinball

  • “If you're playing Metallica, you want Sparky to get lit up once. Because people are going to start coming back because that's an awesome moment.”

    Josh Roop @ ~58:45 — Design principle: signature moments drive repeat play and engagement

Entities

Jack DangerpersonStern PinballcompanyChicago ExpoeventTim SextonpersonScott LarsonpersonJosh RooppersonHarry PottergameX-Men

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern experiencing organizational stress with major personnel departures affecting game continuity and support cycles

    medium · Josh notes pattern: 'There's been a big change' across last three releases; Tim Sexton departure created new coding team requirement for John Wick

  • ?

    community_signal: Jack Danger's new role emphasizes open community feedback and direct communication, potentially addressing Stern's perceived distance from player base

    high · Jack's Q&A: 'I want feedback and open line of communication with the community' and 'Should we expect to see you interacting more with existing pinball community platforms... Absolutely'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Star Wars as kingmaker license remains strategically valuable despite original game perceived underperformance; potential revamp discussed as high-ROI opportunity

    medium · Josh: 'because the Star Wars license still is a kingmaker—then it makes sense to say, Let's do a better version of it now'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Original Steve Ritchie Star Wars criticized as feeling underpopulated, under-mechanicked, and lacking signature memorable moments compared to contemporary games

    medium · Josh: 'It felt like it wasn't as packed as a game that you would expect from Star Wars' and 'the Death Star shot should have been a bigger moment'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Disney/Lucas licensing strategy favors classic trilogy over newer Disney films for pinball; licensing restrictions may limit newer episode accessibility

    medium · Scott speculates: 'there's more or less licensing restrictions with the four through six' and discusses Disney's Galaxy's Edge pushing newer content

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.247

0:00
thanks for tuning into loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 173 i am your host josh roop with me my co-captain scott larson and scott it's kind of been a slow news time it seems like pinball's kind of slowed down um and just we're kind of in that lull pattern right that holding pattern and what's coming up next okay this happens every summer though i it really does People get outside. They want to enjoy the weather. They're taking family vacations. And so this has never been a peak time of pinball news or production. So it doesn't surprise me at all. This is the doldrums right before we get into Expo. Yeah, which is true. And if you don't have it sit on your calendar yet, you should. It's October 15th through the 19th. This marks year 41. They've been doing it 41 years. Dang. And it's up there in Chicago. You want to go get some Chicago deep dish and some Italian beef. Trust me. I'm surprised. Actually, I was surprised that actually we went to Lou Malnati's and I like their thin crust better. Really? Yeah, I did. It's funny because Travis Murry, friend of the show, it's on Triple Drain and all of his own shenanigans. He said he's not a fan of deep dish because it reminds him of casserole. I grew up in Utah, so that's all we ate were casseroles. I mean, we had hamburger casserole, which I found out later in life was just shepherd's pie. And then we had a pork chop casserole. We had a chicken casserole. We had a green bean casserole. Okay, the green bean casserole still rocks. We had what we called shepherd's pie, which I didn't find out until much later was not shepherd's pie. It was just basically ground beef, cooked carrots, and cooked potatoes sliced. it's funny how like some of these traditions happen right well but okay this is also way before the internet i mean i grew i grew up i was a a kid kid in the 70s but i mainly grew up in the 80s and it it's it's a totally different era actually do you know what was really cool my son and his friend were over today and his friend actually repairs game boys oh cool he'll buy game boys and i was like and and so my son was asking like how like hey can we do this i'm like i have no experience and i know how to solder i do know how to solder but i have no experience in fixing game boys but you know his his his friend was over here it was pretty cool he was like hey how about we we buy these together i teach you how to do it and we split the profits 50 50 i'm like good go ahead and then they pulled out but just i want i want to finish up and then they talked me into pulling out the old cathode ray tube tv and we brought it downstairs and we hooked up my classic nintendo entertainment system and they were playing that all night nice nice i want to bounce back to the casserole conversation okay really quickly okay so i was watching a video and they were talking about the most iconic foods from each state sure and for some odd reason they picked funeral potatoes funeral potatoes yeah as utah yeah which is essentially just potato casserole Well, yeah, but it's like potato sauerkraut. So it's sliced. There's cheese in it, and there's some sour cream, and it's delicious. If you eat it, you will be on my 800-pound life if you eat it regularly. That's why.
game
John Wickgame
Star Warsgame
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
Funhousegame
Eric Meunierperson
Keith Elwinperson
Godzillagame
  • $

    market_signal: Harry Potter exceptional sales performance exceeding all recent Stern releases since Godzilla

    high · Josh: 'It's like unmatched by anything else since Godzilla. It's just doing super well.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Tim Sexton departure from Stern to CGC/Play Mechanics creates code continuity crisis for recent releases

    high · Josh states: 'Tim Sexton leaving and them basically getting a new team of coders on that game, that's going to be a Herculean lift'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jack Danger transitions from full-time pinball game design to head of Stern community role, indicating shift in career trajectory and potential organizational restructuring

    high · Jack's own Q&A responses on Deadflip and Stern announcement; Josh and Scott's detailed analysis of implications

  • ?

    product_concern: X-Men playfield design causes significant dial-in and consistency issues across machines in field

    high · Scott: 'Some people, their X-Men plays great, and others, it's really hard to dial it in. So that is the sink or swim of taking a big risk on a playfield layout'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Star Wars confirmed as next Stern title, with speculation on whether it's classic trilogy (IV-VI) or newer episodes

    medium · Scott states: 'the next rumored title is Star Wars. Um, we don't know exactly if that's specifically Empire Strikes Back'

    • 3:34
    There's got to be more iconic food to Utah than funeral potatoes. Kate, we used to be the Jell-O state, but I haven't had Jell-O in so long. Yeah.
    3:45
    It is kind of fun, though, if you make the like the layer jello because, you know, my my mom would make it and took forever. I don't understand how she would do this, but she would like put one layer on. It would be like, you know, a rainbow layer of different things. Yeah. And it's like that would probably take her like 40, 40 minutes to an hour to make just the different layers because you'd have to make it and free, you know, refrigerate it and then do it. It's like, wow, that's my mom was way more committed to cooking than I am. Well, I'm like, there's fry sauce, but that's just a sauce. That's not like really a food, right? It's pretty hard to eat hamburgers with ketchup and mustard anymore. Yeah. Once you've had fry sauce, it's dumped on top.
    4:26
    So, you know, I got Funhaus in the house. I've been really enjoying it. Before we get into that, though, I want to give a shout out to Flippin' Out Pinball. Thank you, Zach and Nicole Mini. I decided to get this on a whim. They had it in stock. Like, sure, we'll ship it right out. I had it because of the holiday, the 4th of July holiday. I didn't get till Monday, but still it was here within a week. Freaking fast. Yeah. And the cool part is too, we've worked out a deal that you can get $500 off. Doesn't matter if it's the Ellie or the classic edition. If you're here in America, flipping out pinball.com, you go in, you just add fun house to your cart. There's a promo code spot right below it. You just type in loser kid and you get $500 off. And then if you're in Europe, you can get the same deal. go to Pedretti's pinball site and type in, you know, uh, you add to cart, do the promo thing, loser kid, get yourself 500 bucks off. And there's plenty of trade deals available as well as Zach is taking plenty of trades in right now. So if you're looking to move something that's been sitting and just collecting dust in the collection, now's the time. So it's also, I will say if you don't follow his page, you should. Yes. Because he moves things quickly. He'll post them, and then if it's not moving, he's like, okay, let's chop a few hundred bucks off and let's get it done. They're moving so quick, too. He said that they're doing an interested list because even on used games because a game might come through and you want it. Yeah. And the deals have been really good on these games, too.
    5:56
    Insane. I don't know how they're making money. Well, okay, they do, and they're good. They're really good at customer service, so that's the best part about it. And, man, I will say going through customer service, I bought a 3D printer for my son's birthday, and I kind of destroyed a part when I was installing it. But it's like a connector part, and I've been trying to get through to China to send me a replacement part for a month. Yeah. For a month. So if you guys have any question about how good a company is, ask yourself on the customer service. If something is wrong, how quickly are they able to remedy the situation? I guarantee Zach and Nicole do it. Oh, yeah. 100%. Well, just like the gentleman that got his Harry Potter, and he watched the FedEx guy drop it. I think his name is RJ. Yeah. And this is his dream game. He just set up Dumbledore for one of the pinball events. And they're like, you know what? Just ship it right back. They already shipped out a new CE to him, so he didn't have to go without. And Zach's dealing with all the headache on that. I don't envy him one bit. like well $15,000 game that FedEx just dropped and was like yeah uh do you still want this oops are bad no but that's fantastic like that's amazing to flipping out and and the quality of their customer service yep so 100% agree um but yeah you want to talk fun house it's been fantastic I've really been enjoying it I want your because you don't have a nostalgic connection to this game I do I have a little bit you do okay I I don't have a nostalgic connection with actually really you know the only ones i have connection to are the ones at my friend's gary's house when i first got into pinball because he had like a tales of the arabian nights that was beautiful um a theater magic adam's family which i never really got the allure of it but he had an indiana jones a circus voltaire and the the question the collection was premium it's he's kind of swapped it out a little bit and i kicked myself a little bit for not picking up some of those games but it's okay but fun house is definitely in that 90s wheelhouse so take it away so i do have a nostalgic connection to it i've always really enjoyed it it's one of the games that i first found when i got into pinball outside of you know medieval madness attack for mars monster bash um it's just it's something unique i think people will love it or they hate it and it's for the fact there's a marionette head on there that talks at you and harasses you and I think if you're into kind of that creepy vibe a little bit, this game is pretty awesome.
    8:32
    I think it excelled over Red and Ted for a specific reason. It's because there's more of an ambiance to it, right? Like there's more of a, like you're in the fun house and you're ticking off Rudy. And it was funny because we had, my friend had his, or sorry, not my friend, my son had his friend over and they were playing and they're like, what's Slappy from Goosebumps doing under there? I'm like, that's not Slack, but that's Rudy. And it's funny because like, where did this marionette head thing come from? Because like, it's got to be around for a while now, right? Because if Goosebumps picked up on it, which was two years after Funhaus released, I don't know. It's just, it's funny.
    9:09
    I had one switch go bad on it. Not bad per se, but I'm working through the warranty process on that. And it's almost like a switch you wouldn't even notice. It's in between when you short plunge, there's a spot on the right side. between the pot bumpers. Is it to activate the play field? No, I think it's just one saying, hey, the ball went down this path. It doesn't really give you any points or anything like that. It's just one of those ones that wants to know where the ball is. Yeah, it wants to know where the ball is. And so it really doesn't affect the game at all. I'm not worried about it. Okay. But I put a ticket in because, yeah, it bugs me. It bugs no one else, and no one in my family could even pick it up if they wanted to. I probably wouldn't even notice it. You know what's one of the Achilles heels to all 90s Ballywilliam games?
    9:59
    There is one switch. There's one opto. There's one whatever it is on every game that barely gets touched, and then the credit dot goes off because like on this one. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Yep. Yeah. Actually, my Wizard of Oz does the same thing. Yep. You didn't hear me boot it up, but it's the same thing. It's like ba-bam, ba-bam, ba-bam. Check the thing. It's like, no, I'm not going to get under there and check it. But yeah, like on Funhaus, the left plunger, the one that you shoot for, you never full plunge it. So there's a switch at the very top that if you full plunge, it just says, hey, the ball came up this way. I never full plunge. And so now I'm starting to get a credit up because of that. You should try to full plunge once in a while. I try to. Treat yourself. Yeah, treat yourself.
    10:43
    But yeah, so I'm really enjoying it. It's been a great game. And I'd recommend, I don't know. the hard part is I do wish the updated code was a little different I feel like Funhaus, I think all those 90 Williams games, Ballet Williams games could use updated code outside of maybe a handful but I think Funhaus is one of those ones that the layout, the gameplay stands the test of time, if we could just deepen that code a little bit they could all benefit from an extra layer and we've talked about this many times that they were never designed to be in houses at this stage so they were all it's getting back to I tell people all the time when they're like hey Donkey Kong I'd love to have a Donkey Kong in my house I'm like no you won't because you'll get it and you'll play it and you've probably put a total of $5 worth of quarters in a Donkey Kong game in your life and so if you've done that then if you're at home, you can put $5 worth of credits in, in a week. Yeah. And you're going to get tired of the monotony of most of these games. It's a, they are very superficial, which in some ways is kind of the charm that you can speed run them, so to speak. Yeah. But, uh, adding like the extra layer, you know, this is like, you know, the Lyman code that's coming out, the Lyman Josh sharp code. And we, Josh has mentioned to us multiple times. he has multiple ideas for future code updates on different games. And if the opportunity presents itself, then he knows how to make him a modern rule set as opposed to a nineties rule set. No, I totally agree. I think it would be interesting to see how a lot of these nineties games you could expound upon or whatnot, but yeah, but with fun house. Yeah, I get it. It's, it probably wasn't an a plus on the extra code, but if, if you want to try it out, it's certainly a fun way to try out a different version. the good news is the the classic version is a great addition to a collection and now you can have the classic version and put it in your lineup if that's what charges your batteries definitely let's talk about the hot news that came out today everyone's kind of uh well wondering what's going on um jack danger is now the head of the community and everyone's starting to ask questions of what is going on over at stern first timmy left to go to cgc or play mechanics sure um you know it seemed like the x-men team had kind of been disbanded yeah yeah that's always the fear right it it's it's kind of like that with there's been a few mix of the of two of the last three releases there's been a big change So with John Wick, Tim Sexton leaving and them basically getting a new team of coders on that game, that's going to be a Herculean lift just because you're picking up the vision of someone else and you're trying to figure out how to streamline that. Sometimes it can work great.
    13:59
    Sometimes not so much. And so it puts John Wick a little bit in limbo. X-Men is a little bit the same way. So you have Jack, who that's his last game. There's latest game, excuse me.
    14:12
    And it's been hit or miss to be generous. That some people, their X-Men plays great, and others, it's really hard to dial it in. So that is the sink or swim on taking a big risk on a play field layout that is so different than other ones, is that you run the risk that if it's not dialed in and bulletproofed, then it's going to be a challenging game. So you're running into that. You're also running into basically a reboot on the code. and in some ways i'm glad that stern doesn't just drop these games because that would be a really bad that would be an ominous sign for future games because then you wonder hey if i if i'm buying a game is this going to be supported if it's not i rush was a rush was okay it was an okay seller it wasn't a big seller they knew that they knew it was going to be a small a smaller run but you know having Ray on the code and getting it really pushed up made me say hey I'm going to keep it it's a niche game but I like it and so the people who buy the John Wick the John Wick fans out there the X-Men fans they're at least confident that Stern is going to make an effort to continue on those games but it does raise some eyebrows right definitely and I'm so dead flip or Jack Danger had posted this on his dead flip page today, right? That he, he's the head of the community now. And there was a little excerpt from Stern and whatnot, talking about this. I want to give a shout out to Colin Alzheimer. He asked five great questions. I kind of want to go over these with you really quick. So the first one will all future dead flip content, comments, announcements, et cetera, be considered official Stern approved communications. He said that dead flip will continue to be independent. stupid stuff said there is its own thing uh colin then asked will you be running or commenting under stern branded social media accounts as part of this role think more traditional community management type responsibilities he says i'll be playing more of a role in official socials that marketing has its own team that's doing a great job three is this an acknowledgement that full-time game the game design was not aligning with your interests or stern's needs uh he put I freaking love game design. More info on that soon.
    16:46
    Four, should we expect to see you interacting more with existing pinball community platforms and groups as well as existing community media types? As a Stern representative, he put absolutely.
    16:57
    And five, right out of the gate, or wait, sorry. Five, what are some new incentives or initiatives that you're excited to bring to Stern in this role that you couldn't do in your previous role? Right out of the gate, I want feedback and open line of communication with the community. the rest will be keeping close to the best for now so it's very interesting we can kind of dissect this really quick um uh so it sounds like there's so stern still has its own marketing team and we know like zach sharps over the top of that and he's got people underneath him that help with that and they're doing a great job as well um so so obviously jack danger's not taking over any marketing roles on these games but it sounds like he's specifically going to be interacting with the community and maybe helping with maybe the community's image of stern which i feel like the community overall has a good good image of stern and maybe i could be wrong i know there's always every manufacturer has its like trip wire right like there's something that happens it's it's not necessarily the the manufacturer's fault it's just something unforeseen happens and they gotta they gotta deal with it right you gotta put on the fire or whatever it is so i feel like jack's gonna be interacting more on a community-based level at least that's what it sounds here right like um i guess the big question almost sounds like an abat like a pinball ambassador if you can use that role okay maybe he's like a stern ambassador where his His job, from what I'm reading this, it seems like his job is to engage with the community, create a positive environment for for pinball and stern. And it allows him to run parallel lines with dead flip and stern.
    18:49
    Now, here's which, by the way, plays into Jack's strengths. so that in some ways you can look at this and say well why is this happening and one thing you can at least agree on is that jack is exceptional at engaging with people and getting you know interest in the community right he's always been the guy that you want to go to a pinball barcade with and hang out with definitely and and so that is a huge plus the elephant in room is the is this uh is this restructuring is this a positive and a negative for you know in his eyes or in the community's eyes and in some ways i i could argue that it it can't help but sting a little bit because the i would say the the top of of pinball at least be being in the industry would be designing your own machines. Yeah. It sounds like he's taking a little break from that, according to him. But, you know, he's like, I still want to be involved in the future. But it seems like that's going to be on a pause. Am I reading that the way you're reading that? I think so. Well, and, you know, I think back to an interview that Joel Engelberth had done with Keith with Elwynn a year or so ago. And it was funny, because Joel had asked, what is the hardest part about making a game? And Keith has said it not actually designing the game It managing all the cogs and stuff right Like you and i been to stern we did the media day where they went in and it we went over every line item of what they do in 18 months from start to finish right and and the person's designing the game quote unquote designing the game is over all those line items making sure it's not just designing a play field right it's interacting with the licensor it's making sure the art's matching up with the design. It's making sure the software's coming in and doing their job, right? You're a project manager. That's really, as a playfield designer, you are that, but you are also the general who is leading the entire development team in making sure that all your milestones are met. Yep. And that's the thing, too, is Jack, I feel like Jack did great. I obviously I own Foo Fighters Pro since it released. I just barely got rid of it for King Kong Pro. I felt like X-Men was a really cool design. I had the things I didn't like was just a personal thing. It wasn't anything to say. It wasn't to say that the game was terrible, right? Like it's just for me, that's not what I like to play in a game. But overall, it shot really well. I think if you can guide the code a little better than where it was, I think it stands as a really cool, unique game that Stern's never done before, right? So if you're doing really well, even we can agree the JP Home Edition was a really cool design. Yeah, I actually played it on Saturday. My friend Dan has one. So I was at his house, and I just went and played it for a while because I think it's a pretty cool design.
    22:15
    We bought a rental down in St. George, and we're going to be renting that out. And I have considered getting something like a home edition to put in there or another one just because I think it's a fun, straightforward game, which is huge. It's easier to understand. So I think he did a great job on that. Yes, I totally agree. So I guess my point is, is we know that Jack can design a game and he's obviously I just wonder if maybe the managing a team didn't set well. It may not have played to his strengths, right? Because we talked about this. So utilizing your strengths. Jack's strengths are engaging with people. And I'm not saying this is the same thing as coaching like a little league baseball team. I mean, it's kind of like the same concept of like you're over a team. You have parents that are putting their input and stuff like that, right?
    23:09
    So it's just one of those things like if you can't handle little league baseball, like this is like pressure cooker times a thousand, right? well okay you could also point out that where does jack thrive jack thrives in the spotlight yeah being a project manager it's not in many ways it's not a glamorous job it the job is to hunt down and make sure your team is is reaching their marks and that that may or may not know i i i have not made a machine with stern i've never been back there i don't know how all that stuff works i i just knowing jack i i see that he thrives a lot better at the engagement part and it's it could just be that they look at his skill set and say we're under utilizing him here when he's really good at it and there are other people who can do this other stuff So in many ways, you could look at it as a shift, but in some ways you can also look at it from Stern's point of view and say, why are we letting the most engaging guy on our staff,
    24:23
    why are we letting him hide behind a development wall when we could be using him for other things? I agree. So it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple months. We certainly wish him and Stern all the best. The more we can get engagement out in pinball and in the community, the better. And again, utilizing the strength, lead with your best foot. Yep, I totally agree.
    24:50
    So since we're on the subject of Stern, we've heard rumors flying around. Let's talk about what we know as where the fire is. Highly speculate, right? yeah so from our understanding is the next rumored title is star wars uh we don't know exactly if that's specifically empire strikes back if that's more of the speculation is four through six again but who knows which i would point out they've done that before if you if you take data east into account and stuff like that so i don't think it's uncommon for it to happen uh weirdly enough I think there's more or less licensing restrictions with the, the four through six. So it would kind of make sense to go that route too.
    25:39
    Um, perhaps it's almost the most marketable of the star Wars profit, uh, properties. It's the one that still connects with people even on a casual level. Yeah. Yep. I think it's the best representation of star Wars too. It is absolutely the center cut of the watermelon, like all neat, no seeds. Right. Yep, exactly. So that's, you know, even with the cheesy acting, because I like I can look at Star Wars from an adult perspective now and just say, whoo, some of the acting is pretty rough. But it still connects with the, you know, my my four through nine year old self, which is when Star Wars came out.
    26:25
    It certainly is the most marketable license that has ever been done in pinball. and I would even argue above Harry Potter just because of the longevity maybe just because the longevity and that should be the title of that Harry Potter versus Star Wars well okay but but legitimately the people who are I the people who are in my age group I'm 50 years old and the people who are in my age group I don't know of anybody who's fanatical about Harry Potter in my age group I think that's a younger age group, and that could be something that really grows because that is certainly a fresher, newer license, and it's a more complete license when you look at all the stuff they did for books one through seven. right but uh when you're looking at the buying demographic of people buying pinball machines star wars still edge is just a little bit higher and i think it's just because of the you know it came out 20 years earlier yeah and i'm not saying anything about the quality of the license of harry potter because obviously it connects with people but if i'm going to throw my hat in which one would ultimately connect with a broader audience i'd say at star wars and i i agree and i i kind of disagree like take the contrary tell me why i know i think you're wrong in the fact like look at how well harry potter has been selling this last two months is like unmatched by anything else since godzilla it's just it's doing super well and and i guess that doesn't have to necessarily talk to the license of you know license harry potter versus star wars but it is impressive to see i mean eric meniere did a great job on the layout and i just i don't know it's i think harry potter i was not expecting it to do this well like it is doing amazingly well um i agree with you though it's almost two different types it's two different demographics right yeah it's it's kind of like which band is better you know like fleetwood mac rumors which sold like 50 million albums right yeah versus like i don't know name it you know pearl jam 10 and they're both great albums they both sold a ton but they're kind of two different demographics yeah yeah well you could even argue you know motley crew versus Lincoln Park. I mean, that's a 20-year difference or 15-year difference. Yeah.
    29:06
    Well, Harry Potter, if you go based off the books, that was the early 90s, but the movies were, what, mid-90s, late-90s? It's probably a 20-year difference between the first Star Wars and the first Harry Potter, right? Star Wars was like 77 the first one came out.
    29:24
    So, it's a similar thing. It's good. So I don't know. I think it's – so getting back to the Stern thing, we are going to circle back on Harry Potter a little bit later. But getting back to the Stern thing, it would be smart for them to redo the Star Wars.
    29:44
    So I'm going to make the case for redoing Star Wars. I'm going to have you do the contrary, okay? Okay. The case for redoing the Star Wars, it was – it felt a little bit cheap. the Steve Ritchie one. I, the whole tie fighter on a spring. It, it felt like it wasn't as, um, as packed as a game that you would expect from Star Wars. Now, apparently our, my speculation was always that the license took away from the bill of material, but we did confirm that that is not the case. Yeah. Like that comes from a separate budget item.
    30:25
    So I, I'm not sure why Star Wars, the Steve Ritchie Star Wars felt underpopulated versus different games of the era.
    30:38
    But, you know, so I would say having a different version of it, the plunge was kind of a nightmare too. Where the first time you get up to a game and you're going to plunge and it's going to house ball. It is such a challenging start. But also, man, the Death Star shot should have been a bigger moment. It really should have. And the cool hyperloop was really cool. But it was also not very easy to get to.
    31:11
    And you have to get back to what are the big things. When you get into Lord of the Rings, you want the dude or the lady who's playing the game, you want them to fight the Balrog at least once.
    31:25
    And if you're playing Medieval Madness, you want them to destroy the castle once. If you're playing Metallica, you want Sparky to get lit up once. Because people are going to start coming back because that's an awesome moment. It felt like the Star Wars moments didn't happen when they should have. So if you're going to pick one to revamp, renew and then re-release so you can sell a ton of them because the star wars license still is a king maker then it makes sense to say let's do a better version of it now i'm gonna i'm gonna throw it to you and i want you to tell me why i'm wrong tell you why you're wrong i i think it should be revamped i think that star wars came out a while ago and so it's obviously a money maker I mean, the license is one of the top licenses that Pimbal has gotten a hold of. Okay, do you think that they should have considered – okay, we know that Lucas is trying to push, or at least Disney, right? They're trying to push episodes seven through nine. They're trying to push the newer – you go to Star Wars land or whatever it's called, Galaxy's Edge, and they're pushing the new order. They're not pushing the empire. Right. And you go there. It's the new stuff. You're you're doing the the smugglers run. You're doing the rise of the resistance. This is all their new version of episode. You know, it's this it's the seven through nine, you know, other things that they could be doing. They could be doing Ahsoka, which was OK. I didn't I couldn't get into it as much as I wanted to. um rogue one slash andor was great and it it is a departure because it's not a lightsaber heavy fight but that could be something that it's critically it's been well received they could consider like it that could be a mcguffin to say hey we're doing uh episode four through six and then come out and say surprise it was and or all along i wouldn't be surprised by that um i still feel that the original star wars still moves more dollars than one of those specialty uh disney plus shows though i agree well really it comes down to like everyone has some kind of connection to four through six right like i just but i don't think everyone has a connection to skeleton crew and or stays up on that stuff if you go up to someone on the street and you say who's luke skywalker they know you go to them and say who's cassie and andor and they're like who i mean unless you're a big star wars fan you're probably not going to know who cassie and andor is well and maybe i shouldn't bring this up but i just a part of me in the back of my brain wonders too if it's to also keep royalties in-house where Steve Ritchie no longer works there. I don't know exactly how the contracts work out. I assume the project manager, the game designer, does get a kickback, and that team gets a kickback for making that game, right? And it's probably contracted out to you have to meet certain requirements and yada yada. Why not keep those royalties in-house? So the rumor is John Borg is designing this. Yeah, I guess I'll push back, though, is that if you have a game that's still selling a ton of units, you don't care who designed it. And they still sold Elvira for years after Dennis Nordman did his first run at it and then Stern fixed it up and then kept selling it, right? Yeah. So I think that the sales on Star Wars had dropped off to a point that they said this version of the Star Wars license has run its course.
    35:31
    So we need to do a different version if we're going to keep this going. Okay. So that brings me – go ahead. The next thing is – this is great though. I'm going to tell you exactly what I did because we're talking a little bit about a recap for the year. and the AI wizards out there, they tell us that there is some speculation and some confirmation of a remastered version of Lord of the Rings coming in 2025.
    36:04
    Do you believe that? No. Yeah. There's too much fire on The Walking Dead, which is interesting too because that's another Borg, right? Right.
    36:13
    I just, could you imagine? Okay, so timeline-wise, so if it is Borg and it is Star Wars, we see that in August slash September. That's always been the timeframe. And then right now, the remastered would be the week of Expo. It came out right, yeah. Metallica came out right at Expo, yeah. Yes. And so my thought process... I feel so bad for X-Men, by the way, because as soon as Metallica came out, the X-Men buzz just dropped off a cliff. 100%. It's hard to compete. Metallica is one of the best games of all time. And with Raymond taking the Lyman Code even to a new level, I know that's sacrilegious, but he did.
    37:03
    And it was so great. So are we going to see the same thing with Walking Dead? But now Borg's going to be betting against himself. I don't know if it's better I mean Star Wars and Walking Dead are entirely too different not genres but like bases of people right buyers fan bases okay Walking Dead when you went to King Kong media day did you even see Borg was he like locked away was he out smoking like chain smoking cigarettes I did see Borg and I talked to him very briefly but he was very busy and so i know that just that tell you and john's a pro he's been oh yeah he's been running 90s he's been with data's ease since the 90s he's been running that forever and and even like what is it george or gary said that that john is a guy who could who could design a game from the bolts up yeah and make it from the bolts up so yeah i don't know man i just super busy I think regardless of what it is, I think Borg's been doing double duty. Yeah. And it just – Okay, but that shows his ability to manage two separate lines. If the rumors are true and he's doing a resurrected Walking Dead, let's call it the resurrected edition, and then also doing a Star Wars thing on top, that's crazy. That's crazy sauce. Yeah. I totally agree. It's just – it's nuts. but if anyone can do it really he could yeah so we kind of talked about it here a little bit ago we talked about harry potter we talked about the code uh let's do a quick update um so so you and i have not played harry potter yet we have and and you know what okay so eric reached out so we're friends with eric and by the way i'm gonna say eric is one of the chillest guys out there because he came and asked us, he's like, well, have you guys played it yet? And we said, well, we haven't, but, you know. I was like, we could have at a media day, wink, wink. Right, okay. And I will say, I don't want to get too far, like, behind their marketing strategy. Correct. I will say that there certainly were plans at some point to possibly include us to come out and see. Yes. And it just didn't seem to match up with everything they were trying to accomplish.
    39:35
    I'm hoping that something like that is able to materialize in the future just because Avatar – going out and playing Avatar was a big deal. because it did give me a baseline to play the game and to say, actually, this is a really good product. I, and I, I still stand by that. It's avatar is a, it's a cool game, fun product. It is an immersive Jersey Jack nails the immersive, the immersion, right?
    40:03
    Yeah, they totally do. And so I can't wait to play a Harry Potter, but his point was that, Hey, the code. And he's like, you guys have Godzilla over your shoulder. You and I both have God's Godzilla just over our, our shoulder. And he's like, that's a pretty complex rule set too. And so just, you know, to be fair, there are lots of layers in Godzilla. And, and so that, that was something that he did point out. He's like, there is a superficial level of like, okay, get through this. And then there's a deeper level of like, okay, now, if you want to be the, the completionist in the game here's the intermediate level that you can get to and then there's the deep level of like here's all the minutiae you can get to well and honestly like we've been talking about this for a little bit now too and i've watched gameplay footage really when you when you break down the harry potter code it's actually pretty straightforward it start a movie start a multiball use that to complete the movie because you want to get those points from the movie And then when you do your final exam or whatever it is to go into our multi our multi rewards you for how well you played the movie right And it's kind of rinse and repeat. You've got six movies. So honestly, the code is very upfront for those. Let's be honest. Harry Potter is a great thing to bring new people into the hobby. I think it's wonderful that J.J.P. did it. And to do a code like that, my complaint was, and like I said, from the beginning of the dawn of Jersey Jack pinball, I just feel like there's too much going on with the screen. And I don't feel like the information of what I'm supposed to be doing is presented to you. I actually thought Avatar was pretty good. So I'm waiting to see how the integration. Avatar was great because you saw how many errors you had. Yeah, true. And how many different things. So they were able to streamline that. And so until I get the chance to see Harry Potter in the flesh and play it, then I'll give you a better idea of like, okay, they give me information I want and they don't overwhelm me with information. Yeah. And that's the thing, too. We definitely need to play it. And so – and it could be an entirely different story once I get my hands on it. It just – like I said, it's just one of those things that I feel like it's not just a Harry Potter problem. Sure. And to Eric's credit and to those, I really do think that they approach this game from a perspective of what can we do not only for the beginner to feel like they're accomplishing and enjoying this game, but also the expert can enjoy this game. And everyone I've talked to that has this game, doesn't matter if they're beginner or expert, everyone's loving the shots of this game. It feels very rewarding. um i've heard people say this is probably the best jjp game so far it's the best package right um and eric just he he did an amazing job with the layout so i just wanted to just to say that and i think i've got it on my well i'm going to expo here in october i better see you guys there um but uh i just that might be the soonest i get to play it because there may be a couple coming to Utah, but I don't know.
    43:26
    We're not a saturated market. Utah is a little bit different. For the most part, unless Josh and I are buying games ourselves,
    43:34
    then it's less likely we get an early view. Now, my friend is getting one, so I'll let you know. If I get to play a CE, and he's getting a CE,
    43:44
    so I'll let you know if I get the opportunity. Jersey Jack, just hit me up. You can send me a Harry Potter. We'll just borrow it for a while. I will say, the one thing that again, to Eric's credit, we said we weren't trying to be malicious. We were just kind of pointing out what, so I hope you didn't feel like we were, we were bagging on you. And he said, you know what? That I think the best policy in life is to assume best of intentions. And I was like, actually, that's a pretty cool thing because we're so reactionary in so many things in life. And especially online that I, it was super refreshing for him to say, Hey, I'm just, checking out on something and i'm pointing a few things out and i i didn't feel like you were being mean but i just want to give the uh the contrarian view it's like i yeah he gave it i gave a pretty big pretty big preamble of like yeah you know if we were sitting we'd be having a beer and stuff like that sure yeah no no i love eric man eric's one of the coolest guys in pinball for a man that has accomplished so much yeah and on it let's let's be honest he has driven him and his team Jersey Jack I shouldn't say just Eric right like we've we've already discussed this this episode that like it is a team effort right but Eric what you're doing at Jersey Jack has pushed pinball forward in a positive way well he's also managing his machine and also all of the lines on some level so he's he's he's a little bit of wearing two hats yeah you know wearing your colonel and a general had at the same time yep definitely you know so this last week uh interest lists started popping up again so you remember when harry potter was announced by jack yeah yeah we should do it there was like a website saying harry potter pinball.com and all the stuff and all these other so so spooky is now pushing interested lists in their next game yeah but they haven't said what it is and i think i know if you say it three times he appears yeah so this is what i'm hearing like it's not whole like where there's smoke there's fire right yeah and i've been hearing this for a bit now this is all rumored we're not saying this is what the game is but if you want to get on the list you know hit up zach and nicole over at flipping out and they'll get you on it uh beetlejuice like you said it's at three times what do you think of beetlejuice it's not a theme that i have much of a connection with um it it is it's it's a little bit like the edward scissorhands or something that maybe peewee's big adventure or something that has a really passionate following but i'm hoping that they can they can convert that to a big seller now they did just release the sequel and so if you're gonna strike then you know go ahead and do it uh it's certainly in their brand it's it's brand honest for spooky to do it yeah because it is definitely in that spooky halloween vibe thing i agree it probably will be a pretty big seller for their expectations it's certainly bigger than walking dead right or sorry not walking dead uh evil dead like evil dead is like do you think evil dead has more like cultural awareness than beatles use because i don't it's hard i grew up in the punk rock scene and evil dead is very predominant in the punk rock scene okay but evil dead is also not a very family friendly option very true okay so and it history has shown that if you have an r-rated movie you actually are going to make less than a PG or PG 13 movie. Yeah. Just because you're cutting off a segment of the population that doesn't want, you know, the extreme, the either, either extreme violence or extreme, you know, language or sex or whatever. So I guarantee more people have seen Beetlejuice than Evil Dead. Yeah. Oh, definitely. It'll definitely sell well. franchi can make it look really good by the way like we know that he's a big fan right well he released so okay so franchi when he used to work for stern so here's the thing when they're pitching an idea to a licensor they'll get the artist to do a mock-up of what the translate will look like because that it doesn't take visual yeah okay i better not say it doesn't take a long time i don't know exactly how long it takes okay but it's going to take less time Minimal investment to get an art poster presentation than it is to do a populated play field. And Franchi had put out like he did like Superman 78. He had done Wonder Woman. And Beetlejuice was always the one that people saw and loved. He really wanted, yeah. Yeah, and I think there was a big enough fan base. I think Tim Burton has already his own fan base, right? and people have proved they'll spend money on it that i think beetlejuice is a brilliant idea especially if you're keeping around that 750 to a thousand of these being made so that's why the number is very important in this in this realm that you can sell that of beetlejuice and evil dead even so if you say evil dead is less of a seller than beetlejuice evil dead sold out within three months right like i think the last ones got gobbled up at texas pinball festival if i remember correctly so but it was also a great game oh yeah so so don't like it didn't it didn't have the halloween effect halloween sold out instantaneously based on an art package and then the play didn't really match up to the same high quality that the art package did right right and evil dead was one the situation where the play actually did match the art package and it was a great marriage yeah so i just i think that beetlejuice is an amazing theme for spooky i think i think the concepts for this could be amazing it's funny because i didn't really believe in beetlejuice till i want to say it was a pinball show with dennis and zach manny and zach just started going off about everything you could do with this oh yeah and i was like i want this now like i want beetlejuice after all this insanity he's like just everything you could do with it right and i just like oh like even the tying in the theme and everything i would do beetlejuice over monsters yeah not monsters sorry not monsters uh goonies what i was thinking i would do beetlejuice over goonies let's do let's do rumor versus rumor okay and i i think i know what you're gonna say here okay borg's star wars versus Spooky's Beetlejuice. Which one would you prefer in your basement?
    50:46
    I have to go with Star Wars just because that is an anchor point in my childhood. And I was on the limited edition list and when I saw the limited edition, I was kind of disappointed just because it felt like there was something missing from it. So I'm hoping that Borg is able to give a better cut at the, you know, cut at the play field and see if we can get something that is, is more fun. Metallica is one of the best games of all time. And if he can do something like that for star Wars, then, you know, Borg is a little hit or miss for me though. Like some of his, some of his designs really connect. And some of them, I struggle a little bit.
    51:35
    I love rush. But it's not a Metallica. It's not. And I know there are people who are like super Rush fans. And it's just it doesn't connect on the same level as Metallica does for me, even though the music probably connects on a different level. So I'm more optimistic for Star Wars than I would be for Beetlejuice. But just because I don't have a huge connection with Beetlejuice. see and i grew up on beetlejuice and that was one of like that was just a show i enjoyed i grew up on star wars as well so i feel like i have just as much connection to both um it's hard because it's like you're solely based off a theme at this point who would your wife like oh easy she'd do beetlejuice over star wars any day well now i had to put two seconds of thought to that one so okay but but that is something that is something especially when we know the majority of buyers are middle-aged dudes right yeah so if you get a something that connects with uh you with with your wife unless you're joel and then you should buy it right talk about she they got dune and that's all she plays now she wanted dune and so he bought her x-men because they have dune from flipping out right i know i know i know and he got a great deal on but it's like dude bro like if your wife says i want this this game you need to get that game here's the thing i can see the pros and cons i i feel the same way with you about borg i love there's certain borg designs i love and there's some that are just they don't hit that spot with me right and then i look at spooky games and evil dead is just so good there is stuff in evil dead that i'm not a fan of but you know what they're taking risks and they're trying stuff that's unique to them and they can do that with a with a small theme yeah i'm sorry with a small run you can do that yeah and so i think i i really think it'd be beetlejuice before star wars in my basement okay all right that's solely off a theme not looking at the games okay um but i could be swayed one way or the other i really could okay so yeah it's gonna be interesting i I wonder how many people are going to now hit up, flip it out and be like, all right, I want on Beetlejuice. Get me on your list.
    53:58
    So sorry. I'm getting distracted. My, my wife's flossing over there, like doing the, the dance. And so she's not picking at her teeth. Cause you guys, no, she's not picking at her teeth. No, we, we had burgers for the night, but yeah, she's nice.
    54:13
    Oh my goodness. Yeah. You know, it's time to go to bed when your wife is flossing in front of you. Yes, exactly.
    54:20
    Okay. Well, honestly, that's all we had on our notes for the night. Okay. So let's do a quick recap. We have probably about six minutes. Okay. Let's do it. So let's look at the year in review and see which games have done over your expectations, under your expectations, or met your expectations.
    54:41
    And who do you think is the obvious winner for the first six months? Let's go chronological. So the first one would be, let's say Evil Dead, because even though it was announced in December, they didn't officially start the run until January. No one saw it until January, yeah. I think this is the best spooky game outside of TNA.
    55:03
    I think TNA. But here's the thing, though. TNA is great for its own reasons, right? Like, this is probably the best. I don't know, man. This one's up there.
    55:15
    And then we had Dungeons & Dragons, not even a couple weeks later. It's a fun game. I was not looking forward to Dungeons and Dragons when it released because I was just like, it didn't hit that nostalgic button for me. And it's just something that I guess, I don't know. But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised playing it. What about you? I guess both Evil Dead and with... Okay, we'll start with Evil Dead. Evil Dead exceeded my expectations. Okay. I will also point out that it is a game that I will... I have young kids. There's no chance it will be in my basement. and now she's moonwalking gosh uh uh yeah it's it's just that the theme is a little too uh rough for uh you know a 10 12 and 14 year old kid family but they nailed it and they definitely exceeded my expectations but not every game needs to be a baby game right like you don't have to this is what when people talk about like which movies and I know that people will counter with me. It's like, oh, you want every movie to be a PG? I'm like, no, I'm literally just looking at finances. Which movies have the greatest chance of selling the most? And you don't have to have all that. That's why they have the indie film festivals or the Oscars, which is masquerading as an indie film festival. You know, just things like that, because you still want to be able to have the different different things for different audiences. And spooky, again, nails the horror audience like no one does it better than them.
    56:53
    I would say Dungeons and Dragons exceeded my expectations, but because it was a stern, it nailed exactly what I expected from Stern. Yeah. I know that sounds kind of weird, but they're playing around with a little bit of the experience, the level up system. They started that with a little bit of Venom where, okay, you can kind of save progress and you can level up and you can do stuff like that. But it definitely has that board game, the MMORPG, the online video game feel, which it's not really my style.
    57:37
    So I think it's a great game. If I got a great deal on it, I'd probably consider it in my lineup. But just because the theme's okay for me and the game is good, but it doesn't knock one of these other ones out of my lineup. Yeah. Well, and here's the thing, too. My son and I were playing Dungeons & Dragons locally. Well, up there in Salt Lake. Sure. And he said something to me, and now I can't unsee it. And I don't know if I should say it on the podcast.
    58:05
    The turtle? The turtle or the snail. Why does the dragon look like a snail? yeah okay however it's still a cool effect it is still a cool effect like having the dragon like fire the balls at you so fast yeah it is a cool multi-ball it really is but the whole head poking out of a cave yeah just kind of wish there were some like wings flapping or something but yeah is there a mod for that is there a full body mod for the dragon because i can't say no all right let's move on to the next one portal for multimorphic yeah uh did this meet expectations exceed expectations? Exceeded. Because the limiting factor that we've always talked about P3 games is that the shots are heavily focused on the back third. Yeah. So this broke that back third ceiling by extending it down.
    59:01
    This also, if you're going to do Portal, having P3 do it is the perfect venue to do it for yep because having the screen there is going to definitely help with the environment and in portal it's a video game so having an environmental feel is going to be huge yep for me it definitely exceeded expectations which actually was kind of high for portal it's a game that is very much a touchstone of my life it's one of those games that i just i love portal is right up my alley of what i like to play when it comes to a video game so for them to make this um just i i was expecting a lot and i felt like they met like the theme integration to this game is insane sure um i can't wait for them to start producing these off the line sure um they're prepping right now i know that they showed in march yeah and they've taken interested lists and whatnot but it's if you want a p3 right now so that way when portal does actually finally get off the line now is the time to buy the cabinet yeah you can still get the thousand dollars off through us loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com and we will direct you in the right place for you to get that thousand dollars off but seriously this is a game that i'm looking to get into my collection i am excited for this this is this is the everyone has said it so far this is the best game that multimorphic has made by far a hundred percent and so that this is if you're going a lot of times and i know that i've talked about the the overlap between a game console system and the p3 but this is an anchor title that you can buy and and put in the game you know it's like the super mario brothers that you can buy with that and it's like this is if it's not the one title you want it's a solid high quality title that utilizes everything they have yep so i yeah this game is just awesome it's just so if you're looking at buying it now's the time yep definitely uh next merlin's arcade i'm not gonna lie i kind of forgot this game even came out yeah okay but again what's the audience for it right this is the grandpa's this is the grandpa's game room for the the younger kids it's not super complex it's a beautiful game and turner made it look pretty good actually so yeah and it john norris john norris has done some great designs and whatnot yeah i I haven played it yet Okay So if I make it to Expo I will definitely I be one of those to check off Same here. Yeah. I guess it met my expectations.
    61:59
    Maybe. I mean, I thought the Ninja Eclipse was actually pretty cool. Yeah. I would say this is probably a little step down. It feels a little Great Wolf Lodgy. where it's geared toward like the seven to 12 year old integration maybe that that demographic but still fun um i didn't really have an expectation so i guess i exceeded it uh yeah i like eight ball deluxe it reminds me of that with a an upgraded medieval arcade yeah so i don't know i i'm with you i i'd be excited to play this at expo they had four or five ninja eclipses there and they all sold pretty quick. So I assume this is going to be the same situation. He's probably going to bring some more of our kids up there. We'll get to play them and whatnot.
    62:46
    Dune. Way over and above. It's a great theme. It's a modern theme. It has super fans out there. This could give Jersey Jack a run for their king of the mountain on theme integration. yeah it really could with their environmental lighting and and making that and having like the i don't know what it's called the the worm in the back that has like five different ways of yeah the sandworm the sandworm uh but and really talk about not having a sophomore slump you're going right from labyrinth into dune uh you i don't see how you could have a better second release on the game i agree i cannot wait to get my hands on this game this game looks insane thank you david van est and brian savage for allowing us to do that that oh yeah that was great getting that was peak and getting it out oh yeah at the same time so i'm able to go through the game with the glass off it was so cool to like just interact with this game right like it just really really cool um i i i felt like it exceeded expectation right like i didn't have a i hadn't watched dune until the week before we knew this was coming out and um i just my my only concern is is code has not caught up to where this this game should be at uh but i know do you have any doubts where labrath was at i don't have any doubts no i know dune will do great and i think once they get that code under their belt uh i think these will sell like hotcakes um i guess the question is has the train already left the station because let's let's be honest okay what else we got we got king kong yep and we have harry potter and predator so we will get to those really quick but the problem is i think 2025 has been one of the best years for pinball in a long while yeah it's had a lot of quality at least yes exceeding expectations on what you expected the release to do yeah for me i own king kong um it exceeded my expectations ellen always does because he just there's a creativeness to that his mind that you don't get from anyone else i feel like uh with the flow and with the rule set it's funny because his rule sets are really deep but they are very basic in nature of this is what you need to do and one thing he does in his games that i don't feel like a lot of people do is he has dedicated leds for certain shots right like the climb feature on king kong those arrows are specifically just for that feature yeah and so i feel like it gives that throwback to that bally williams vibe um it's like medieval madness you know what you're doing on medieval madness if you don't then you're blind yep and so king kong has to be the code I feel like it's a little bit more simple, but it's because the layout is so it's it's probably one of his harder playing layouts.
    66:08
    It's a great game, though. It far exceeded. How about for you? I it's unfair because at some point you're chasing like you're chasing your own shadow. Yeah. And, you know, it's this is what this is what happens in the tennis world where people are talking about. Djokovic. And they're like, well, he's not as good as he once was. And you're like, the dude's 38 and he made it to the semifinals of Wimbledon. Yeah.
    66:42
    What are we talking about here? This guy has, he already has a Hall of Fame resume. On all of his cornerstone games, they have all been solid solid solid and so when i say meets expectations that's a pretty high bar it me it met elwynn's expectations of this is a game that i i would have no hesitation in buying and putting in my collection and i and he also this is actually one elwynn game where the pro is a really solid option like you don't feel like you're missing much yeah so that that's if there if if there's only you know with godzilla it's like i don't understand why you would get the pro over the premium on godzilla yeah but on this one i'm like i could totally get saying like no i'll just save the 2 000 bucks and i'll get the pro i totally get that so i can just say solidly met the the ungodly expectations that this guy does yeah he this might be controversial but i'm going to say it anyway i think ellen has the team management of larry demar with the unique layout design of pat lawler who also has the pinball knowledge of a roger sharp with the code understanding of death as alignment sheets yes yes and yes and yes see yeah you're not getting that anywhere else and that's what makes that's when you take a king con game that is pretty much non-licensed yeah it's based off the book whatever yeah yeah okay everyone knows it's about a big monkey but it's not that's not pushing units exactly this game has sold fairly well for what it is you know i'm saying like where a theme is king and don't get me wrong you there is a ceiling to that right sure the when you go then that quote-unquote non-theme there is a ceiling to that regardless of what the theme is sure but anybody who's designing it does anybody in pinball look at an l1 game and say man this this guy really needs to step it up uh no and i think even people that aren't into pinball can walk into a room a game room and they can tell there's something unique about that versus everything else yep all right harry potter that's the next one after king kong uh we talked about we just talked about that uniqueness when you walk into a room and you feel like it's different you get that with harry potter you're gonna walk to harry potter it a casual fan is gonna walk into a room and if there's a harry potter that's the first game played okay uh and the the fact that they were able to you know what was the rumor always about harry potter it's not going to have any assets it's going to be like hog it's not going to be a corn door hogwarts legacy oh yeah this is going to have none of the actors none of the assets it's going to be you know it's a little bit like jurassic park right where it's like yeah you're not getting any anybody you're just in the harry potter world you get nedry yeah yeah even though every time it drains, I think nerdy. Why does it say nerdy? Um, but wow, them coming out with, with full assets, all seven movies, all, you know, all seven books, all eight movies, and being able to do this to a level that is, you know, the, a creative layout with the staircase, uh diverters um wow it i was concerned that with when you pay so much for a license you're going to sacrifice how much you can pack under the gameplay yeah but it's this is i when people say this is the best jersey jack i can't disagree and we're talking high level players i mean tom groff who was a high level player he's like this is a great game yeah there's something special yeah something special about so you know what they said you know what josh sharp and zach sharp said about the graphs right like even the dog plays great pinball at that house like they wish they could be in the graph family because they're that good at pinball wow yeah that that's actually pretty high marks considering josh and josh music and roger yeah are all amazing yeah yeah yeah That's – and so, okay, I don't – I wish it were a little – it was like the slowest rollout ever.
    71:32
    Yeah, it really was. I just wish it were a little faster, but they actually did make it pretty much roughly under a year after Avatar. I think they did the best they could. I really do. I think the licensor was – Well, okay. Okay, here's the thing. And we'll say this. I know that no manufacturer will say this publicly, but I will say it for them. And if I get in trouble, I'll get a message tomorrow. I know I will. Uh, they cannot say that a licensor is being a pain in the butt. Oh, there's no way. Yeah, there's no way there's no. And the reason being is, is because let's say they want to use another license from that, from that person. Right. Obviously Disney uses, they has a bunch of licenses. If you say the licensor sucked on this and we're like, it was just the worst experience they ever had. you're going to get a message or if you attempt to go for another license, they'll be like, go pound sand. Like the last time you worked with us, you said we were terrible. However, I, I don't get that feeling on this one. I get that. And I'm not saying, sorry, I should have interjected it right there. You did. Yeah. So I, I didn't get the feeling on Harry Potter that it was a, it was a challenging licensing thing. They're extremely jealous and meticulous of their product, but this is absolutely not a James Bond situation. Yeah. So it's that they never told us Bond was like that. Where are you getting that information? Yeah. Oh yeah. Weird, huh? Yeah. Uh, but that's the one thing to remember is that they, they're extremely involved. However, this is a complex layered, uh, you know, uh, just a later presentation of any theme. and for them to get it as good as they did. Now, we know about the AI in the art controversy, but that's still small compared to everything else in the game. Yeah. And I guarantee the only people that noticed it, it was like, huh, that's interesting. Okay, great. Pull the plunger. You know, it's not... Every release is going to have something that you're like, huh, that's weird. Hey, shark, you know, shark, no eat ball or, you know, things like that. Right. Hey, let's up and have a stairway to heaven. You know, it's, there's always going to be something that's going to be a detractor on a game, but this is still a dynamite presentation and bringing back the arcade model. Yeah. Amazing. Bringing back the arcade model, making something that is a little more accessible and they're still, they're still expensive, but still, still a premium product. that you can put on location. So did it meet, exceed expectations? Exceed, yeah. I thought this is going to be such a challenging license that why would you ever try to do it? And wow, Eric did a great job. I joked with him because I was at, I was in Chicago, but maybe like two weeks before launch. And I was just like, hey, I could just swing by. You want to get something?
    74:36
    I think he actually was like, I was just working on the machine and cut my hands and i'm like i'm sleeping at the at the studio so all right last one predator and okay i actually watched predator the other day because it was on on tv so i will point out that predator it's it's super cheesy like watching it now like i thought that it was like this is an awesome show and it still is when you're looking at it from like a 1984 lens but it like it it doesn't hold up nearly as much as i thought it did like the jokes are are comically bad yeah comically bad the the uh the the locker room boys jokes yours like these are terrible jokes like subjectively terrible jokes they're not even funny they're just no yeah it's they're awkward jokes and i just you know it comes down to licensing and i know that this is a challenge they probably did the best they could given the situation they have um you know but if you're gonna make a predator you probably want arnold in there somewhere yeah so you know that's the challenge yeah and i think this is the thing is like travis had said this on the last triple drain once you look at it and you think whirlwind like you can't unsee it yeah and i thought that like two weeks ago like after i did the interview and everything like that and i got looking like i compared it to richie and some l and stuff and i got looking i'm like no this is this is whirlwind like it's almost to a t but you know i want to play it i want to play it because i don't want to i don't want to be unfair um yeah we wish that it were a little more complete but you know given that even me watching the movie i was like oh maybe that's not like it's not as great as i i remember it being okay the last minute we're gonna wrap this up really quick nice bow uh i'm gonna rapid fire these off you if if money wasn't a problem didn't matter if your family saw it or not in your collection and space wasn't a problem yes or no into the collection right okay evil dead yes or no uh i think yes for me okay dungeons and dragons um no just because it's not it's not my style of game yeah same here portal yes 100 yes merlin's arcade okay but okay however every single one of these i would play on location yeah yeah okay yeah i would go i would go and play on location i wouldn't walk past there are a few that i'm like uh yeah but so far i was still at least I'd put $2 in. Yep. Okay. No for Merlin Arcade. For me, Dune.
    77:28
    Dune? Maybe. Okay. Just because I really want to see it up close. And the theme doesn't have as much. It's a great theme. It's a great environment.
    77:43
    And it's just, I look at the themes that I have in my basement. And I'm like, I kind of like those, that theme vibe. But if I, if I had the space, yes, I would buy it. If I had the space, I would buy it, but I'm limited to 10.
    77:58
    Yes. For me on Dune. King Kong, obviously it's a yes for me. Yeah. That's a hundred percent. Yeah. Harry Potter. Yeah. I will get it at some point. I mean, question. Yeah. If, if, if money wasn't an object and space was an object, I'm going collector edition every day and it's, it's going right. Right. Yeah. I really am excited to see the collector's edition. And Predator. I love the collector's edition just because it's a little more of the book vibe, like the art.
    78:28
    Predator, I doubt it. Wide Bodies, I'm not a huge fan of. I did play Alien on Saturday, and it's just the same thing. It's just not fast enough. it just feels kind of like you know the only white body i have down here is wizard of oz yeah and it's just that okay that fits for the theme wizard of oz is not like a brute it's not wizard of oz is not a brutal movie right yeah um predator probably should be it should have been a narrow body but i i doubt that i would be interested but i haven't played it yet so i just want to point out like it was pretty much 60 40 60 of like we would put in our collection yeah i I don't remember a year so far. No, there was a lot of them that I was like, pass, pass. Yeah. Um, just, I mean, even looking over last year, I mean, uh, yeah, I just think that overall the, the quality pinball is getting to a point where it's like, we're fighting for dollars right now and, and everyone's bringing their a game. Um, yeah, I, I can't, which is hard because pinball is contracting a little bit. Yeah. It's not, you know, we're coming out of that post COVID bubble where you could, you know, you could throw out an average product and it would still sell tons. Yep. Like you're not getting that anymore. And the used market is if you're looking for deals, you're going to find them. Definitely. If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, X, Twitch, YouTube at loser kid pinball. yeah silverballswag.com if you like the jersey we are actually supporting Papa 22 this year we'll have some exclusive merchandise there to raffle off to help with 988 which is the suicide help and Penny Epstein is pushing that and she reached out to us and we were happy to contribute yep so happy to contribute so I'm going to be working with Silverball swag to get some exclusive merch there for that to help with the charity and the auction and whatnot.
    80:44
    One other thing I want to point out really quick, Flippin' Out Podcast is now a thing. Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone are destroying it. They're doing great. They've got a great chemistry. If you've not checked it out, just go to your podcatcher feed and type in the plus symbol and Flippin' Out Pinball. It's not an hour long commercial for their product. It is banter between Ken Cromwell and Great Bone, and they're doing a great job. Well, speaking of getting back in your wheelhouse, Ken's wheelhouse was podcasting before he joined Jersey Jack for those five years. So it's nice to see him get back in the saddle. Yep. All right, Scott, give us our last words. So I am wearing my flag hat again on my head because this is the patriotic month all in Utah because we have Fourth of July, but we also have Pioneers. So I have Pioneer Heritage, and they came to Utah, when it was sagebrush and rattlesnakes. So happy 24th to all the pioneers who went through and braved the frontier to set up the beautiful state of Utah.
    81:49
    And yeah, it's great. I'm very grateful for the sacrifice they made. Same here. Thank you to our ancestors that settled this land. And happy 25th to me. I will be 38 on Friday. That's true. I forgot. Happy birthday to Josh. I wore the hat for Josh. Thanks. Law and Lawfare