Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

We like what we see so far, PinFX

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 10m·analyzed·Feb 7, 2022
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

BlahCade hosts praise Pinball FX Indiana Jones visuals and subscription pricing model.

Summary

Chris Freebus and Jared Morgan discuss the recently revealed Pinball FX visuals and features, focusing on Indiana Jones gameplay footage and technical improvements over FX3. They analyze lighting, rendering quality, dynamic effects, and confirm positive impressions of the enhanced visuals. Discussion also covers pricing models (subscription vs. purchase), table availability, and individual table purchasing options without forced bundle packs.

Key Claims

  • Pinball FX uses Unreal Engine with ray tracing, representing a significant visual upgrade over FX3's engine

    high confidence · Direct comparison of FX3 vs FX screenshots showing ray tracing, dynamic lighting, and bloom effects; hosts explicitly identify Unreal Engine improvements

  • Zen Studios is implementing a subscription model for Pinball FX (estimated around $4.99/month similar to Apple Arcade) alongside individual table purchases

    high confidence · Chris and Jared discuss pricing announcement, comparing to Apple Arcade pricing and discussing subscription as trial mechanism

  • Pinball FX will offer individual table purchases rather than forced three-pack bundles, addressing prior community complaints

    high confidence · Hosts explicitly state 'you buy tables individually' and contrast with previous FX3 three-pack model (Funhouse, Space Station, Dr. Dude example)

  • Indiana Jones Pinball FX features enhanced video mode with animated screen content matching playfield art style, not movie footage

    high confidence · Detailed analysis of video screen showing animation rather than footage, with style matching playfield aesthetic

  • Some table licenses may not be available in Pinball FX due to licensing restrictions

    medium confidence · Jared notes 'Mel alluded to that in the trailer. I suspect certain licenses are going to be like, no thanks'

  • The Pinball Show (referenced episode) released official Pinball FX visuals and information

    high confidence · Hosts reference 'The Pinball Show aired last week' and discuss analyzing the revealed visuals

  • Physics in Pinball FX will likely receive mild improvements from FX3 after transfer to Unreal Engine

    medium confidence · Jared speculates 'I would anticipate a mild improvement, probably taking into account some of the feedback' and mentions balancing discussion with Mel

Notable Quotes

  • “I like seeing that the inserts are nicely lit, but they're not blown out. And you can see the jeweling really clearly in them.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~15:00 — Technical appreciation for lighting quality in FX version versus prior limitations

  • “This is where I think Unreal is helping them out immensely. And if we look at the ball here... if it's doing real-time reflection, it is.”

    Chris Freebus @ ~25:00 — Recognition of Unreal Engine's contribution to real-time rendering improvements

  • “It's noticeable, but it's not like you're going to be kicking yourself either, I don't think. The feeling of playing it will be different. But from a gameplay perspective... you'd be probably pretty happy if you're staying on FX3.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~42:00 — Assessment that FX3 players won't feel pressured to upgrade despite visual differences

  • “The subscription is really aimed more at the casual player. When I dip the toe in, play for a couple of months, maybe, then you know, cancel the subscription for a bit.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~48:00 — Positioning of subscription model as entry point for new/casual players

  • “It's daunting to come into a game that has this much DLC and then go, where do I start? And do I even want to start? And then you start doing the math and going, this is going to cost me how much? A lot, right?”

    Chris Freebus @ ~50:00 — Articulation of barrier to entry for new players with extensive catalog

  • “There won't be in three-pack lots. You'll be able to buy the tables individually, which was a common complaint with people on the platform.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~55:00 — Confirmation of addressing long-standing player complaint about forced bundle purchases

  • “This subscription service is definitely the first hit of three. Or reduced cost. So I think you're right. People will use the subscription who are new to the platform.”

    Chris Freebus @ ~47:00 — Recognition of subscription as hook to drive eventual table purchases

Entities

Chris FreebuspersonJared MorganpersonPinball FXproductIndiana Jones PinballgameZen StudioscompanyMelpersonPinball FX3productThe Pinball ShoweventPinball Whiz45BpersonUnreal Enginetechnology

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Zen Studios addressing long-standing player complaint about forced bundle purchases by offering individual table options

    high · Jared states 'individual table purchases rather than forced three-pack bundles, addressing prior community complaints'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Zen Studios employing video screen placement as aesthetic alternative to upsampling or color-DMD on certain tables

    medium · Chris notes 'this will play out when we actually get to start playing... they're going to pick a part of the playfield to replace with a video screen'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Some table licenses expected to be unavailable in Pinball FX due to licensing restrictions

    medium · Jared speculates 'Mel alluded to that in the trailer. I suspect certain licenses are going to be like, no thanks'

  • $

    market_signal: Subscription model positioned as entry point for casual players to reduce barrier to entry with large DLC catalog (100+ tables)

    high · Extended discussion of subscription addressing new player intimidation with extensive table library and pricing math

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball FX implementing subscription model (estimated $4.99-6.00/month) plus individual table purchases, moving away from three-pack bundles

    high · Hosts discuss pricing announcement, compare to Apple Arcade model, and explicitly reference removal of three-pack bundle requirement

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.212

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus joining me as always halfway across the world it's jared morgan hello everybody how you going all right well it is a uh another well what two weeks i guess yeah since last time yeah i don't know what is going on um i'm hungry jared yeah that's what's going on stuff and things you're hungry yeah i'm hungry um i've uh well i'll be 50 at the end of this month and that means you know doctor's appointment for a physical and i didn't feel like going in there uh unprepared right so it was like you know what it's time to uh to shed a few pounds so my new year's resolution um through the end of february was to dismiss with the slurpees which I was having daily.
1:13
Oh no. Don't have any soda which isn't that much of a difficulty for me but it was starting to get excessive even all the same.
1:21
No desserts which is very painful. So I'm not cutting out sugar completely but it's very minimal now. And then for the month of February I decided to up the ante because I was I indeed was losing weight but I decided to up the ante and And now I'm doing this intermittent fasting thing where you can eat for eight hours, but then you've got to fast for 16. I'm hungry, Jared.
1:49
Yeah, but you would be. Let me just wipe my screen. Wipe that screen there. There we go. Ah, there we go. Make sure you tip the guy.
1:58
Yeah, that's right. There you go. So, yeah, you would be hungry. That's not fun at all. No. I mean, and unfortunately, I guess it's working.

  • “Everything is high-res all the way to the background. Just look at the clarity of those pop bumpers. The actual lids of the pop bumpers are super, super clear.”

    Jared Morgan @ ~20:00 — Detailed observation of increased polygon count and visual clarity in FX version

    • announcement: Zen Studios officially revealed Pinball FX with Unreal Engine rendering, subscription model, and individual table purchasing options

    high · Hosts reference 'The Pinball Show aired last week' with official visuals and Mel's involvement in announcements

  • ?

    product_strategy: Indiana Jones Pinball FX includes enhanced video mode with custom-animated screen content matching playfield art style rather than movie footage

    high · Detailed analysis of video screen showing animation technique, hosts note 'This is them animating it. This isn't footage. This is not movie footage.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Transition from Pinball FX3 engine to Unreal Engine 4 enabling ray tracing, dynamic lighting, and real-time reflections

    high · Detailed comparison screenshots showing FX3 vs Pinball FX with explicit identification of ray tracing, bloom, and lighting improvements

    • 2:13
    So it's working, but you hate it. I hate it. Thanks, I hate it. Yes. So, I mean, just with the, since I started this, I've lost 15 pounds.
    2:26
    15? Wow, okay. How many kilos is that, like three? I don't know, something, I don't know, I don't do kilos.
    2:33
    Conversions are hard. And then just with this last week, because this last week was the first week that I tried the intermittent fasting, I dropped three just in that span. Oh, okay. So we'll see what happens by the end of February, but I'm hungry.
    2:47
    Yeah, that's why I don't diet. Yeah. I should too, because I put on pandemic weight, but I didn't set myself a New Year's resolution, so I'm okay with whatever I like. Well, as you said, that is the good thing. That is the good thing. The COVID-30 is gone. so the COVID-30 right the COVID-30 is gone so that's yeah right that's good but yeah I think I've put on uh about eight kilos since over the last two years and that's not muscle so I do have I've been carrying a bit extra at the moment I seem to be hovering around 100 kilograms for ages that seems to be my weight but I definitely put on more yeah I just need exercise more, basically, because I want to stop eating. So if you don't stop eating, you've got to exercise more. That's how it works. Yeah, and I don't really have the time. Well, I shouldn't say I don't have the time for exercise. I don't have the motivation for exercise.
    3:47
    I'd imagine, though, that you actually get probably a fair bit of exercise when you're walking around the park. I get about 12,000 steps a day walking the park, which translates roughly to about five miles.
    4:02
    And that's probably helping. Oh, no, it undoubtedly helped. When I first started in September to the point in January, I had dropped, what, 13 pounds or so, just like changing nothing other than just being there working. Right, okay. That's what kind of motivated me to do other.
    4:26
    But, yeah, I just, you know, I didn't want to be the cliche pinball player. Oh, yeah. because we tend to be on the round side. The pinball bod. That's right. Particularly, you know, the 90s...
    4:42
    Uh-oh. We're having a generation issue today. Yeah, the 19th... Oh, crap. I'm back again. Yeah. I don't know. I'm frozen.
    4:57
    Oh, here we go. I'm back again. So, yeah, the 90s generation. Yes. We're all the same size as the Bulls now.
    5:06
    We got some bumpers on us. We do, yeah. All right. Yeah, so wish me luck, everybody. Good luck. I'll survive the rest of this month, I'm sure.
    5:21
    Little heads-up news, folks. We're not going to spoil who it is or what it is, but we've got a new interview that's going to be coming soon that we're kind of excited about. That's going to be awesome. Something completely different than what we normally, well, not completely different, but it's not related to Zen. No, it's not. So that will be a change. Yes. Yeah. So that should be coming up soon. We haven't been made aware of when we'll be able to post.
    5:51
    We just know when we're going to be able to record it. That's right. Yeah. And that's all that really matters to us. That is. At the moment. Yes. But now is as good a time as any because we're also going to have some giveaways related to this. So make sure you follow us on the old Twitter and subscribe to this channel so that you can be in the loop so that maybe you can win the giveaways that we're doing. It's minor giveaways, but they're fun all the same. They are fun. We don't give away things usually. No, not normally. But yeah, it's going to be a fun time. Yeah. Speaking of giving away, the pinball show aired last week. Oh, shut up, phone.
    6:33
    Everyone wants a piece of you today, Chris. Right? Yep. I should really mute those things before we start recording.
    6:41
    No, I do because I normally get CGM alarms happening right throughout the show if I don't. So it's like a mute, mute, mute. Okay, take two on that. So, Pinball Show, last week, they dropped all sorts of information that was nuggets for us. Juicy and tasty. Yeah, as well as dropping a host of new visuals. So we're going to kind of go through some of that stuff and give our reaction. If you saw the title of the show, you know our reaction is positive. So not necessarily spoiler alert, but...
    7:18
    What do you want to start with, Jared? What do you want to talk about first? Let's start with just the in-game vision, the rolling vision of the game, I think. Let's just dive straight in. The rolling vision, i.e. what we saw with Indiana Jones or what? I think that's probably, well, let's go with that first. What have you got queued up? Let's start with that. Right. I was like, I didn't have any of Noir queued up.
    7:45
    So we're going to go Indiana Jones. Hey, folks. Let's do that. Right, so what do you say we go full screen on that? And, yeah, we're muted because this will not pass copyright circumspection if I play the music. Let's see what the trailer is for Indiana Jones. And we're just kind of going to watch this all together. What do you say? Yeah, let's do it. Let's go just hit the old play button, and Jared can tell me when to pause when necessary. Yeah.
    8:15
    The classic, they don't do this in movies anymore, do they? No, they don't. I'm just going to pause that right there. Yep. I said pause it right there, and then it didn't pause right there. Let's go back. Yeah. There we go. A little close-up. There we go. Look at some of this beautiful stuff that we got going on here. Look at the chrome. Yeah, the chrome is pretty strong. I'm just going to point right to this corner here. Look at that. Yeah. Nice little kick that's going on there. We've got the little warble.
    8:44
    Yeah, a little bit of metallic distortion there. Yeah, distortion going on. the gold oh why did you start playing look at that though wow wow wow just look at everything should we just play it through all the way let's go back a little bit we're going to go back a little bit you just have to make sure you don't click on the screen because it unpauses it as soon as you I'm going to move that over there we'll let that go yep there's amazing lighting effects ah and then the added the added visual extras the rain which actually seem oh man that rain looks so and this is amazing like the actual center the center video screen that's really cool very very cool all right let's see if we can now go back and actually pause on an image or two let's scrub that video uh we're gonna go right back over to that image right there yeah okay so here's what I like seeing. I like seeing that the inserts are nicely lit, but they're not blown out. Yep. And you can see the jeweling really clearly in them. Yes. That is a very welcome sight to see. Not that Zen had a problem with it in their previous iteration with... What we're looking at here, this would definitely be the Unreal, or not the Unreal, they're all going to be Unreal Engine, the Pinafx version probably with the ray tracing and whatnot i'd say this is definitely ray traced as opposed to the fx3 version we're going to actually look at a little side by side that uh pinball whiz 45b had whipped up and posted so credit um yeah but no i just i just like that the uh The lighting is very nice, and the metal is looking rather good.
    10:47
    I don't know if we can see... I seem to remember that in the game, the rails were actually gold. So you can see that slight gold tinge to the chrome in the way they've done it. Right. But I remember that the rails were really gold, quite prominently gold in the game. so I think they've got a little bit of I don't know where they could bump the colour difference up a little bit because they're almost yellow yeah so I mean I'm not completely upset they're definitely not dull you can see reflection even on the surface of the rails you can see quite a lot of reflective elements on it so this thing's reflecting off everything that's shiny which is really cool I also like that the lighting here is not just a uniform blanket lighting. I mean, if you look down at the flippers, it's dark, which is what happens typically on these older tables. They didn't have lighting blasting from the... Apron. Yeah, from the apron. So you just had your GI lighting right under the in-lane right there. I've seen more and more modern sterns that actually have spotlights that shine on the flippers from the apron now. That seems to be a new thing they're doing, which I guess is a good idea because it addresses this problem.
    12:09
    But, yeah, back then, it was playing in a dark room or a dark pub was a challenge. It added a layer of challenge to playing. There we see. So the ball trail is going to be a smoke trail, it looks like. I personally never play with the ball trails. I don't like them. No, I tend not to either. I find them distracting. so that's like the first thing that I always turn off I'll play with the visual effects all day I'll play with the visual effects but I turn that off the ball trails no particularly when you got the ball trails were there when you had screens that couldn't really handle motion blur that well because it allowed you to track the ball but now most computers can run displays that are 144 hertz and you get you basically don't get any motion blur Look up here at the green light with it off and look at the background here. Okay. As I go to this.
    13:08
    Where did I go? I want that green light to come back on. There. See how it all of a sudden lit up? Yep.
    13:21
    It cast light everywhere. Which is a good sign. You know, that was like. Right there on the ramp. that was the thing that we had an issue with with Pimble Arcade.
    13:35
    Yes, that's right. No light casting. And this reminds me very much of what you saw in Time Shock, Pro Pimble Time Shock. Like it's that level of light casting. Up until now, it's only really been available if you pre-render. Yeah. So we're seeing this live dynamic lighting now, which just gets done. The lighting down here by the in lane, because that's not the light. That's the reflection of the light on the table. The light is obviously underneath. The actual element is up higher. So this is actually casting the reflection down here. These are all the little things that just make me happy.
    14:18
    What it does is it makes the illusion of playing digital pinball so much more. Yeah. you get that feeling that, hey, this is actually a real thing that I'm interacting with here. I still wish...
    14:33
    The flippers on Zen, they still look very digital to me. I mean, like... Like, I want them to be more plastic. I want them to look photorealistic. So you want that real sort of shiny plastic look to them, not the dull matte finish? Yeah, and I think that's kind of my one gripe. um and it's even the bigger plastics up here uh they look great and i mean it's a hard it's a fine balance because honestly this looks like a zen table it looks like what zen produces and so it's uniform with the rest of their stuff so yeah that's right on that end i'm like yay but in terms of if anybody is going yeah but it still is not as fabulous as it can look no i agree we could have these things look photorealistic.
    15:23
    I mean, that was a thing in a thread that we read. People were going, you can use Visual Pinball X. And there was a shot of a really nicely done Addams Family table. And the thing looked like a photograph. It was amazing. That being said,
    15:42
    Zen is also being keenly aware of keeping their file sizes down. Yeah, and that makes a big file size. When you have 100 tables that are of that size, suddenly you don't have a computer that can hold all the tables.
    15:54
    Yeah. You have to make some hard choices about what game to keep on you. Let's pause over here. It's struck in the balance, isn't it? It is. Like I said, I'm not in the least disappointed with what I'm seeing here. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it, and it looks fabulous. It does. I'm not necessarily looking for it to fool me into thinking I'm playing a real table. Because I know what it is. It's a video game on my screen. Exactly.
    16:22
    I mean, sure, if those people with cabinets, I'm sure they'd appreciate the high-resolution stuff. But look at this. This is phenomenal detail, even to the point that on the stickers you can see the... I always forget what they call that, the pointy dot, the four-ink process, the halftones. The screen printing. Yeah, the halftones. The halftones. You can even see the halftones on here. It's not just all smoothed out. On the lettering, you can see the halftones.
    16:55
    And this is just random angle that they're zooming in on. Everything is high-res all the way to the background. Just look at the clarity of those pop-up. The actual lids of the pop-up are super, super clear. Yeah, I mean, you see the screw holes and everything.
    17:13
    Everything is there. Because remember in Pimble Arcade on some of these tables, there was like heavy missing level of details or LOD because they just couldn't do the polys. But there's so many polys on this. Look at them. Everything is so smooth. And even the like take a look at that raised jackpot playfield protector just behind the drop targets you know Oh that yeah that so you can even see like the art that there like a clear perspex sort of layer to it over and above what you would normally sort of expect to see on plastic like that it's very very very sort of
    17:58
    like all this all the textures are really really detailed yeah you can tell that there's a bit of plastic over this. Obviously, that clear plastic that Zen does very well. I wonder what that blue line is, though. That's not there normally.
    18:14
    That's not generally there. It seems like a seam. So I have a feeling that might go. Because, yeah, that's not there. It's a black line on the original game, I think, from memory.
    18:28
    But, yeah, just take a look at the idle, though. That's got like that real, that sort of chrome texture. So that's the color the rails need to be. Yeah. Because that's basically the gold tone that's in the game. Okay. So, yeah, they can get that on the rails. It'll just look amazing. It's like a brushed gold.
    18:47
    I mean, you can even see, look at this. You can see the table reflecting in the plastic. The plastic. There. Yeah. That's really nice. This is where I think Unreal is helping them out immensely. and if we look at the ball here I'm trying to think of it I mean it doesn't I'm trying to see what it's reflecting if it's doing real time reflection it is because they covered that in the Noir video which we might be able to queue up later on because the ball reflection in Noir was like they had the ball on the play field stationary they held it there and all the play field was reflected around the ball like it was very cool So we can pretty much expect that. I tell you, I haven't seen an Indiana Jones with this much shiny chrome for a while, because normally it's worn off and, like, the ball is burnished, lines, you know, travel lines and all the chrome, but this looks like it's fresh out of the box. As a matter of fact, this is the... This is the enhanced visuals mode. The enhanced visuals.
    19:51
    There's a nice idol at the top. What's the thing on the... The medallion. That's what that is, yeah, right. Yeah, the medallion. because that features in Medallion video mode. So it might be interesting to see what happens when these video modes come up. Because, I mean, you know, you've got Castle Grunewald, I think that's how you pronounce it, you know, in the game. That changes the environment. So I wonder if they've actually done a different environmental effect for each mode in the game. Because that would be pretty cool if they did. Well of Souls, I would love it if it went through and somehow melted somebody's face. Oh, it has to. Has to do that. Or the Ark, I should say, not the Well of Souls, the Ark. It seemed like there was stuff coming out of the Ark at one point. I think that may be in multivolve. Maybe. I don't know. We've got the tank here, which is kind of cool. So those are always going to be. The airplanes, you notice, are absent at the moment.
    20:40
    Because they fly around. They fly around. Yeah. We do like a bit of dragon action. Right. Zeppelin's been added.
    20:48
    Yeah. Let the planes fly. It's actually good because the planes actually did block a fair bit of play field. like they look cool but they were kind of in the way um that's a bit of licensing that zen paid for yeah a little bit and uh he has a platform to stand on so they had to give him a clear perspective platform over that area of the play field which is which is funny because like if you've ever played this game you shoot the drop targets and the ball flies over to that area of the play field i just wonder if like when the ball does that you're actually going to get an interaction with Indy. I can skip the nuts or something like that. It's really, it would be about nut height for the character when the ball comes flying over there.
    21:34
    What else can we show here that we like to, oh, here's where it starts to get a little bit dark mode. Let me, yeah. There you go. So look at that. Look at how dark the playfield is now down at the bottom. That's beautiful. That's what I wish it was just like permanently.
    21:48
    Yeah, that's, that is how it is when you play it. In a dark room I mean, it looks great. No Penn Stadium lighting here.
    21:58
    Ooh, a little lightning going on. But when you see the lightning effect, it actually affects the play field as well. Like, you see it lighting up the rails and interacting with the actual play field, like casting a bit of light on it. Again, that green glow. Look at it just casting on the Zeppelin there. Yeah. Just imagine what Attack from Mars is going to look like with this treatment. Yeah. Imagine what Strode Multi-Ball is going to look like with this ray tracing. I love this addition.
    22:25
    Oh, yeah. Having a video screen in the middle of that area is a perfect use for that area. And this is the interesting thing. What we're seeing here, potentially, could be how they get around not upsampling or color DMDing things. They're going to pick a part of the play field to replace with a video screen and put stuff into it in the enhanced mode. I think this is what we're going to see as a trend in some of these more newer Belly Williams tables that they're going to. But I mean, you look at this, this is them animating it. This isn't footage. This is not movie footage. No, no, it's not. It's really good animation too. So again, what they've done is essentially they it's in keeping with the art on the play field. You notice that? Yeah. Like it's got that style to it. And that wouldn't, that wouldn't have been a trivial thing to do. actually getting the sort of art style to match the playfield because it's very cartoon-like, the playfield art.
    23:28
    It's really well done. You can see where the time has been spent on this table. And I think Mel said it was months in the making. There's our plane flying in front of us. I'm sure some people will be like, oh, I hit the planes, I can't see the multi-ball. Hey, look at that. There's three globes on the idle area. This? Yeah. The Shankara Stones? Yep. You reckon they're going to be indicating ball locks? Probably. Yeah.
    24:01
    More minions flying by. There's a biplane flying around. Yeah. It's a pretty good, yeah, pretty good chase. When this eventually comes to VR, that'll be fun. Oh, geez. these new era of tables that they're coming to vr are going to be crazy when they come to vr because it's going to happen at some point that was the i was wondering if there was more glowing out of this but uh yeah there was like a little ghost things flying around if you just play the video from that point um there's like things are flying out yeah i didn't see things oh i thought of sort of things in the first one. I don't know. Let me back up even more.
    24:46
    Oh, there they are. See? Little things. Ghosties. Woo! Ghosts! Yeah. I knew I wasn't going crazy. That's pretty funny. Well, not in relation to this, anyhow. Right.
    25:00
    Yeah. Wow. There's so much stuff in there. Yeah. I don't have any complaints. That looks pretty dang nice. Yeah. Looks ready to go. Let's play it. Right? Right. Release it already. So let's show off real quick then.
    25:17
    Yeah, this is what we're going to do. Go right here. Let's show off a little comparison of what we can expect out of the FX3 version and the Pinball FX version. So this would be the FX3 version, at least according to Pinball is. which is interesting or maybe this is just an early render I don't know because look it's non-gold rails everything is dark chrome yeah even the eye I have a feeling this might be an early render it might be an early render but look at the difference just in the inserts and the lights is a very flat like I'm on I'm off I'm on I'm off there's not a glow there's no bloom on the lights no and then compare that to this version and that's a very nice bloom it's not even it's definitely emanating more out of there actually if you have a look at the light sources as well like you can see like on those green lights there's a hot spot where the actual globe is and then it like diffuses out and there is that on that one as well It's a lot light almost. Well, it's got less... Well, look, here's side by side.
    26:40
    It's more like the whole thing is illuminated and the other one is not. Although, that being said, this screenshot could have been taken at a slightly different point at the illumination of the light, so we have to factor that in as well because these were just lifted from the videos.
    26:56
    But still, you get a feeling that the way the light sources work, on Unreal 4 is very different to the PX Engine. I mean, even look at the... Apron detail.
    27:11
    The colors are much more saturated. A little more vibrant. A little more crisp. It's like the one on the left has suffered a bit of sun damage.
    27:20
    It's been in the corner of a room. It's got a bit of sun damage. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, all in all... The reds are really saturated. It looks really good. Yeah, it's... I don't know. Do you guys have any complaints about this? Because from what I'm seeing, I'm happy. I mean... I'm okay with this. Yeah. And then it comes down to, obviously, you know, however the physics on it, you know, has Deep gone and tweaked anymore with the Williams physics, or are we still retaining the last version of the Williams physics?
    27:54
    And then there was that conversation... I think they probably had time to tweak them. I think they probably had a little bit of time to tweak them. It probably did, but it also goes into that idea that we asked Mel, where he was saying there's a balancing. Obviously, once they transferred things over to Unreal Engine, they had to balance the physics. It's like, how far do you go? Yeah.
    28:16
    I think it's going to be, I would anticipate a mild improvement, probably taking into account some of the feedback that people gave during the last throws of Epoch 3. Yeah. I think you can expect some improvement. I don't think it's going to be a complete rewrite, though. Because, honestly, what they had was pretty good. Yes. Well, that's the thing. I don't think that anybody is not upgrading to FX or to pinball effects. And I'm saying this is going to stick with the FX3 version. It's not like... If you're buying it on physics, it's not like the days where you're buying it, comparing the Nintendo 3DS version to the Nintendo Switch version, where there's a massive jump in fidelity, it's not going to be... It's noticeable, but it's not like you're going to be kicking yourself either, I don't think. As we can see from those two screenshots, you've got a...
    29:15
    It's just the feeling of playing it, I think, will be different. But from a gameplay perspective, across all the tables that are already in the product, if you for whatever reason choose to stick with FX3 well I guess this will play out when we actually get to start playing the early access but I could speculate at the moment like you're saying Chris that I think you'd be probably pretty happy if you're staying on FX3 for now and you know you're sure you're going to get a different experience on pinball effects but like it's not going to be a gross difference between the two i don't think which kind of leads into the next thing that um was announced with regards to pinball effects and that is pricing um not that we heard any pricing but there's gonna be two different options uh with which you can play there's the straight up purchase your tables option and then there's the subscription model which i think will be again nice for those that are on the fence of if they if they're wondering is it going to be worth it to do the conversion hey you pay your let's say it's the same as what the uh apple arcade is right 4.99 yeah pay your 4.99 for one month play around with most of the tables that are going to be available at the moment because it won't be all mel alluded to that in the the game in the trailer i suspect certain licenses are going to uh be like no thanks be a bit funny about it yes please but it will at least give people a chance to uh make a good educated you know purchasing decision that way it gives them a really good chance to try before they buy because if it's going to be four dollars or like even if it's going to be like a little bit more than that a month like five or six i mean you do it for a month you really really flog it to death in a and you see, hey, yeah, okay, I'm going to save a bit of cash and start to buy these incrementally. As opposed to buying that one table and basing your entire decision off of a month of playing that. The other thing to consider too, and this might help people who don't want to, for whatever reason, invest in Epic, they'll get the subscription for the first year and then once it comes to Steam, that's when they'll start buying the tables. Oh, yeah, right. So that's actually a smart way of working around people who don't want to cross ecosystems and want to have all their stuff in one ecosystem. So I see why, and I think that's a good call to offer it. Yeah, I think the subscription is really aimed more at the casual player. It's the casual player. um because when i dip the toe in play for a couple of months maybe then you know cancel the subscription for a bit and go and play i don't know pub g well i'm just thinking it is daunting to come into a game that has this much dlc and then go where do i start and do i even want to start and then and then you start doing the math and going this is going to cost me how much to a lot right and that will push them away as opposed to if they do a subscription they can mess around play with the full breadth of the game they're going to be able to probably then also can you know play with the tournaments play with the uh the pinball royale you know mess around with all that stuff find tables that they do like and then slowly i'm sure zen's idea is to slowly sink the hooks in until they're eventually just purchasing a table maybe you know Maybe they're buying wine or something like that. Forgoing the coffee.
    33:01
    Yeah, this subscription service is definitely the first hit of three. Or reduced cost. So I think you're right. People will use the subscription who are new to the platform. Yeah. Because there are some people who this pinball effects will be the first time they will see it.
    33:20
    Which is a bit mind-blowing, but you know. It is a bit mind-blowing. But, hey, look, you know, there are new people coming into the hobby all the time. Yeah.
    33:28
    You know, it's a really good position for the industry to be in to actually have all this extra interest in pinball. But, yeah, there's going to be people coming in that you're right, they will be very daunted by the prospects of having to buy 100 tables plus all the other ones that are coming out this year. Yeah.
    33:46
    It's a large expense, and this will give them the opportunity to try before they buy and start wish-listing table packs. because you could probably expect that by the time this comes out on Steam, all those packs will be wish listable on Steam. Well, you did see what he said, though. They're not going to sell packs. It's build your own pack. When I say packs, I mean individual tables. So you buy, because that's the other thing that we haven't quite come across yet. There won't be in three-pack lots. You'll be able to buy the tables individually, which was a common complaint with people on the platform. So it's great they addressed that.
    34:28
    We've addressed this. Why did they put things in three packs? And it's a simple case of economics where, I mean, let's just look at what the last release was where you had Funhaus.
    34:42
    Now I'm going to blank on everything. Space Shuttle. Station, sorry. Yeah, Space Station. And what was the third?
    34:51
    It was Hurricane, wasn't it? No, Dr. Dude. Oh, yeah, Dr. Dude. That's right. So of those three, one of them inevitably is going to be the one that people are like, well, that's not necessarily what we wanted. So Funhaus will be your AAA title. And then it becomes kind of a toss-up. Well, is Dr. Dude the one that you wanted or was Space Station the one you wanted? For me Space Station was kind of like yeah I not that big into it So I would have rather had Dr Dude So if I was purchasing tables individually You wouldn be buying a space station Not necessarily right So the economics are though you put them into a bundle You've got your AAA title, which brings you in, pays for… The other ones. The other one. But you've now also balanced out the payment because, as far as Zen is concerned, their development cost is always going to be about equal or whatever. so it's fixed they've still got to fund the table that they made exactly invest all the time in so they've got to recoup costs somehow right so the thing is that they kind of probably already have and that's what i was just gonna say they've recouped those costs so now selling them individually doesn't hurt them in the least they've already made most of the money that they were planning on making on those tables this is now pure gravy and if you're going to be making tables like indiana jones well now you avoid licensing cross-pollination issues where they're like hey, we want the spotlight on our license, you also can readjust your business model for paying for these individual things. um and the other thing to probably think about too is that by doing it separately like this um that's i i have a feeling that if they were in packs um like three packs this like subscription based model would not work right you want to that's the other thing you want a constant feed and then what mel was even saying was this way i'm more thinking like they wouldn't be able to license them because they're not individual. Right, right. But Mel was also saying that this way, let's say two of the three tables were done, but the third table is giving them a headache and they can't get it. Or pump out the other two. Yeah, they can just pump them out and then they can still wait until that table is ready to go and then drop it. So if they're, it again goes back to that idea of they're hoping to have 12 designers.
    37:15
    I think we're looking at a table a month. I think we're going to get Pinball Arcade level of releases but with Zen quality. Yeah.
    37:25
    Which will be good. That'll be good. The only other thing that's, it's a little bit scary, but if you follow, if you go onto Reddit, Pinball FX 3 has its own Reddit channel. I suggest going to it because immediately after pinball shows, Mel is on there, Akosh is on there, Lynn is on there, answering questions and a lot of good information gets dispensed there that isn't necessarily put out in the pinball show or the information is clarified somebody had asked the question regarding the tickets that they saw now anybody that has played the williams pinball app knows that tickets are in there they also know that if that's the purchasing method of tables that it was grossly inflated versus what the cost was if you were purchasing it on steam oh yeah um mel addressed that in there and said it is not going to be anything like what you we've previously done and it seems like they are very much well aware of the dissatisfaction that that caused Yeah. So I think it's fair to say that we should get a one-to-one. It's just going to be hidden behind a ticket thing. Because that way you can discount. Look, they're still going, let's make no bones about it. You know that they're going to do that classic thing that your Dave and Busters do, which is, hey, purchase $20 worth of gameplay on your card. But then when you go to play the game, it's like this game costs $1.75. No, it's like weird numbers. So you're always going to wind up having just like a little over or a little under on the credit, making you have to purchase a little bit more. Yeah, exactly right. I wouldn't be surprised if that winds up being there, especially when things get discounted. Or it's going to be, again, with that idea of you can create your own table packs. I wouldn't be surprised if it's hey the more tables you put in a pack the lower cost. Yeah it's essentially like now 28% off the list price now 32% you know very similar to what you see on the Oculus store does this a lot where they will bundle three games together and they give you some random discount like I've seen some coming through that have been like oh it's 22% off it's like what a weird number but okay sure let's let's i'll take that you say so yeah sure yeah and it's really weird but yeah you're right i think assembling your pack it'll be like hey add this extra product onto your cart and we'll the more you add the the more we'll discount to up to an upper level which might be the way that they get around people wanting to um you know complete their collection who don't want to actually subscribe you just want to like buy yeah because i had a did mel mention and do correct me if i'm wrong here um mel mentioned that the the way that the entitlements will work for purchase tables i have a feeling that it's going to be linked into the zen account and it's not going to be like you know you won't be able to have steam and playstation but i have a feeling that when you buy it wasn't the the case that whatever you buy on epic comes over with you on pc no it's no so he what he was saying was what he was saying is first party entitlements still apply so if you purchase it on playstation you're only playing on playstation it's not that you can then go over to uh your pc and have access to but what about on pc and pc PC's going to be the same thing. You purchase it on Epic, it's not that you're now going to be able to play it in Steam when it comes to Steam.
    41:20
    Right. It's different stores. I thought I remember something like the... There's also this Zen account thing that was bandied around before. What he was saying was you're not going to purchase through Steam. You're going to purchase in-game. Purchase in-game. Yeah, right. Yeah, so... For Steam. Yeah, right. So you don't have to jump out. Well, what it's going to be is If you're going to download the free version of the game, so like the lobby and everything is going to be free, right? Don't be surprised if we get a free game. Again, is Sorcerer's Lair going to be your free game? Who knows? Probably not. Probably not, but again, for the sake of argument, let's say it is. Let's say it is. There you go. You downloaded, you have Sorcerer's Lair. That's in Epic.
    42:08
    You go over to Steam, you're going to have to download the game again. i imagine probably yeah and then you're you're gonna have that so there's two different storefronts um yeah but the idea of purchasing through zen you're right does create an account that you have so that in the future and some people are already speculating this because if you play fortnight you can play it you purchased it here you can play it on other platforms yeah This would be Zen's way of knowing exactly what you have purchased. There will be no doubt about what entitlements to what game you have. So that if I'm imagining down the line they do clear things so that there becomes cross-play wherever you go, this is how it would be. That's how they solved that problem. So this could be future-proofing what they plan to do, just not quite yet. Right.
    43:02
    That's where I was going with this, I think. Because I heard that was the thing, but I wasn't quite sure of the details. I've forgotten the details, to be honest. So it sounds like we're going to get pricing information with the next pinball show in February. Obviously, because the game is releasing for early access in March. They're going to have to have that stuff in line. So, yeah, it sounds like we're going to get it. It's going to be a busy show next month, I reckon.
    43:26
    Other things that are coming down the pike. People were asking a lot about cabinet mode. obviously it's not ready but uh it sounds like they've been listening very heavily to what the cabinet uh people are wanting in terms of not only just table views but functionality with you know interacting with their setup um you know are they is it going to have its own ui so that you don't have to have a separate keyboard to navigate you know but you can do everything right there on the top of your uh on your pin cap so that information also it sounds like it's going to be coming sooner rather than later uh but again if you want more of this info believe me head over to the reddit look up pinball fx3 uh that channel and dive in because there's a ton of information just look for the things that are uh i think it's like pinball show reaction thread or comment thread. That's where you'll find stuff.
    44:35
    Do you find that the same level of interaction happens on Discord as well? Or is it more just Reddit? Discord, you don't get answers typically from Mel or Akosh. You do get answers obviously from Lynn a lot.
    44:51
    Discord is more of a quick back and forth obviously because it's kind of real time. it's not threaded and archived and the other thing about Discord too is you need to actually be logged in to view it whereas Reddit you don't it's searchable let's take a look at something here Jared because I did manage to bring it up hey look at that yeah it looks so good there's our lobby which anybody that was playing Star Wars VR knows what this looks like so you're just going to have that single table there until you walk up to it and then a menu will pop up probably you select your table and the whole key art and everything else will change on that but it will stay with that table as you wander around and come back to it yeah that's right which hopefully if the hint that mel was saying about will be happy with rom carryover or attract mode stuff, this would be where you would see it. Yeah, you would just walk up and look at the game. I hope that is the case. These are obviously your collectibles that you can find, you know, and everything. Again, this was nothing new to anybody that's played the VR, Star Wars VR. Yeah, that's right. There's your hints at some of the tables that are going to be playable there. Yep, there's all your core pack games. Right. Right there. Because that's definitely Biolab, Biolab, obviously Wild West Rampage, Secrets of the Deep. Yep. So, yeah. So everything looks like there's four. It could be there's four achievements that you actually can earn per table. This? Interesting. Now, this is the other thing. Yeah, this looks like virtual pinball, inside virtual pinball. Right? Or is it this is where you can view somebody else playing?
    46:54
    No, it looks interactive to me. Like, have a look at those pin controllers that they've got there. All standing there. Just waiting for a physical release.
    47:08
    Yeah, it looks like what you would see, almost like a tournament-style play. I reckon this is obviously the tournament's area. There's a big tournament site over at the top there. but i reckon that you might these will be the three tables that you play and essentially it's almost like the tournament's notion in the pinball effects game itself is like a game within a game right which if you think about it that's totally what the tournament's layer is it is a game within the game yeah so representing the tables like this in more of a sort of more oh this is like a digital pinball simulation. It's like a digital pinball. I think it's really nice. It's very meta and not Facebook meta. Right. It's just a very, yeah, it's an interesting concept. Over on this shelf, Pasha.
    48:00
    Yeah, Pasha, yeah. Down here, again, Wild Rust Rampage right there. Yeah. What else do we see in here? Let's see.
    48:10
    There's more of the room, more of your collectibles. Wow. Oh, there's a... I actually saw there was a... If you just go back, probably a frame. Just on their wall.
    48:24
    Yeah, can you see just next to Zeus there? Or son of Zeus. Yeah, Hercules. Yep. There is what looks like a genie lamp. Well, that's why I'm wondering if it's Pasha.
    48:40
    Or... Does Pasha have... Pasha's got a genie action too. Tote Totem. Tote Totem is very much a rip-off of Tales of the Arabian Nights. Tote Totem, yeah. Who knows what that's related to.
    48:51
    Because all the stuff that we're seeing in here is all Zen property, as far as I can tell. What's in the fridge, Chris? What's in the fridge? I don't know. What's in there? I don't know.
    49:04
    Snacks. Brandon Snacks. I bet you there's some beer, some Zen beer in there, probably. That'd be pretty funny.
    49:11
    Yeah. This gives you a clue of your favorite tables, which is something that people have been begging for, to be able to favorite tables.
    49:19
    So table selection, daily rotation, favorites, owns, and originals, Williams Pinball. So just click your tab and bam. Sorted.
    49:31
    And look at that daily rotation. That will be if you're a subscription, I think. Possibly. But that could be related to your subscription. Or is it just something, again, something else people have been asking for, a randomizer?
    49:46
    Yeah, it could be. Kind of a way of highlighting, here's what the tables of the day are. It could be tools related to those two. These unlocks, I'm not sure what this is involving.
    50:00
    It looks like unlocking achievements in the game, I would say. Yeah. But I'm wondering if this has anything to do with... What tab selected?
    50:15
    That will probably give you... It says my tables is the tab that's selected at the top. Can I clear that? No, I can't. No. There we go. I'll be looking forward to seeing William P. Ball on the leaderboards.
    50:30
    What else do we see? Oh, there's our Indiana Jones. They showed us all that. Yeah. Hold on. Go back. yeah that was that uh so that is okay oh this was the tournament creation so created by time left permissions all open private player attempt all limited unlimited um i'm wondering if there's gonna be more so those standards are all those settings are all standard compared to what was in the game already yeah um but the way that they've surfaced those is a lot easier to get to. Yeah. It seems to be quite mouse-focused, though. Like, the game... Like, if you're using a controller, you would know that, you know, getting through these menus could be interesting. So it'll be interesting to see how tab order works in this game.
    51:22
    Because there's a lot of focus points in that page. Like, it's pretty... It's going to be interesting to see how interaction works with a controller.
    51:31
    And here's the... Table purchasing. Here's a shop. Yeah. So, yeah, buy tables together. It doesn't really... Hey, look at that. Look at that currency. Yeah. Look at that little seven... Look at the little... It was 708, but you put four in there, and now it's 620. So, this is what I'm talking about. Like, this thing, this is a currency. This isn't dollar-y dues. This is 55 units, 70 units, 620. Like, what would that be funded by? Like, is that going to convert into a currency based on the store you're in? that's going to be the interesting thing. Like, what is that?
    52:11
    So, yeah, that's going to be... And then we get some mummy... Look at this footage. Hey, look, what did we ask for? We asked for jeweled inserts. We got jeweled inserts on this. Well, we get jeweled inserts. Yay!
    52:23
    And that transparency behind that waterfall is quite nice. Mm-hmm. Got no complaints there. Ah, noir.
    52:33
    Yep. Look at that light casting. And the reflection in that car is off the scale. That is so shiny. Someone's really done a good cut and polish on that car.
    52:46
    What else do we got here? More images of Noir. Yep. Hiding behind the phone box during a mode Right Yep That more of that More of that Kind of Oh there what our pinball pass So, play free daily tables, play pinball royale, unlock collectibles.
    53:11
    So you can play that for free. It's essentially the mobile version of the game. Mm-hmm. And then the pinball pass access most of the pinball effects library. Play with all game modes unlocked. any collectibles unlocked, get extra pinball royale rewards. Ah, we called that, didn't we? Get extra pinball royale rewards. Again, we pointed a while ago to the Fortnite model, or the car soccer game.
    53:47
    Rocket League. Rocket League, thank you. I'm like, what the heck is that thing called? Yeah, where all of a sudden, if you made the purchase, you'll get little doodly beds that you can attach on. Yeah.
    53:59
    So that is... So this is the thing about Pinball Pass. That'll be interesting. Hmm. And then we have Noir a little bit.
    54:11
    Looks very pretty, obviously. Yeah. Now we've got a little more color in there. And lots of really interesting looking mechs on this game, too. Mm-hmm. There's heaps of stuff you should interact with.
    54:27
    So what do we think? Are those magnets? Yeah, they've got a big magnet. They look like a magnet, but with a positive and negative pole on it. Yeah. I call that Lombard Lock, but it's not called that, apparently.
    54:43
    There's another name for it. So, yeah. It looks like Lombard Street, though. I mean, you could be sure they were. Frequently asked questions. We don't need to look at those.
    54:55
    Just looking at these. I still am not necessarily a fan of the cardboard cutouts. That Zem likes to put on these things. Yeah. Yeah, I don't... I don't know. Quite no way. I probably have disliked it ever since, like, you know, what was it, the Rolling Stones table that Stern put out?
    55:19
    Yeah, make him a stick. Oh, man. As he's known. Yeah, that was bad. I don't know. I think they do it because they have to save space on the play field. Like, having a fully 3D rendered model might be hard to track. Who knows? Right.
    55:36
    But still, lots of positives there. No, there's a ton of positives. I mean, it's still looking beautiful. There's no doubt about it. So, I don't think... it's funny because you go back a year when everybody was just like just throwing haymakers at zen oh yeah oh zen's dead yeah williams pimples dead you know and and this is what we said it's all about marketing it's all about hype and you gotta time it right yeah i think probably there was a little bit a little bit too long on the hype train i think yes the hype train could have been knocked off a couple of carriages yes let's be serious but But I think at the same time, we could see why. Yeah.
    56:22
    But time will tell. Again, it all comes down to playability. When we first looked at FX3, we were also just like, oh my god, this is amazing. We thought what the potential was, and then real quickly it was like, matchups suck.
    56:38
    Yes, that's right. Meanwhile, tournaments, which we didn't think was going to be, you know, it'd be like, oh, that'll be interesting. That thing blew up. Yeah, exactly.
    56:49
    And this is, again, why they want to do early access. See what sticks. See what people... They're going to be testing. They've got a couple of theories they want to be testing on this early access. So if you've got a PC, you should be helping out. Because if you're passionate about pinball, this is your chance to actually give them the information they need. to make the game more like what you might like. Or what generally people think is a good idea or not. So yeah, get involved.
    57:19
    Follow your epic pride and start downloading the game when it's available. When it's available. All right. Well, that was pretty much what we were hoping to cover today. We just wanted to touch base, give our thoughts, and kind of point them out visually what makes us giddy and excited. obviously there are some people that I don't know they just have that VPX stick up their butt it comes down to it's the oh the book is always better than the movie kind of thing to that I just kind of like get over yourself you can still play that it's not a pick one or the other that's right if you want to actually support a developer and you know pay for the licensing like it should be then you go this route. And if you want to skirt all of that and deal with inconsistent tables across different authors and... Having to worry about getting them working. Yep. Then you can go the VPX route. Go for it. Yeah. You know. If you like to tinker, VPS. If you just want it to work, Zen. Exactly.
    58:27
    Like I said, we think next time we're going to... Well, our next recording session, we're doing an interview. Whether that will be the next episode, that's a whole other story. But we don't know. We're excited to bring it to you, so stay tuned here.
    58:43
    Beyond that, I think, look, we're hoping to get a beta in our hands on Pinball FX, and we'll see what we can squeak out information-wise and what has to stay under covers. But as always, we'll keep you as much informed as possible. so until then I guess we'll be talking about Jared's favorite things which are stuff and things we'll see you next time bye bye
    59:33
    you