Welcome to the Spinner's Lip Pinball Podcast, Episode 72, What's New 2025. I'm your host, Spencer, and with me are my co-hosts, Dan. Hey, what's going on? and Mark. Hey, everyone. So, hey, yeah, what's going on is right. New year, new stuff. Mark, what are you up to? What's new? Well, I'm happy to say that I finally got one of my tournaments with a win for the first place. I did win over at Elbow Room, and I had some stiff competition. I had to play Dan Armstrong, and I also had to play Jeff Dixie Reinhardt, which pretty much he was like in the top eight of the Nevada State Finals playing against Jack. And I was able to pull it off on Foo Fighters. And I also had a good game barely making it with a nice skill shot on Taxi that saved my butt. So I was able to pull off a first win for 2025 to add to my stats. And I was trying to say I wouldn't look at the points, But it was my first win, so I was excited about that. You can't help yourself. I can't help myself. I know. Oh, yeah. Guilty as charged. How much did you get for winning? $35. It was only 19 players. How many Whoppers? Oh, how many Whoppers? Oh, not much. Probably eight bucks. Or eight. Sorry, now I'm thinking money. Probably about eight points, maybe. There was only 19 players. It's been so long since I've seen eight Whoppers, it sounds like a fortune to me. Oh, really? Okay. Okay, well, that's good to hear, I guess. $35 is not, that's beer and pizza money. Yeah, $35 just keeps, that's what I do. It's my pinball fund. So if I win a tournament, I just keep recycling that and using it for entries. But now Jim increased the price to $10 at press start. So now every time we play a tournament, it's $10. And the reason why is because at the end of the year, he's giving away a pinball machine new in box. Nice. Yeah. So every time we enter in a tournament, we put in the tickets, and then we can have a chance to win a brand new pinball machine. Pretty cool idea. Man, I'm super excited for Jeff or for that kid who keeps winning state. I always forget his name. Yeah, Jack? Yeah, I'm really excited for Jeff or for Jack. Yeah. One of those guys who just always steamrolls us. Yeah, it really was a nice accomplishment. and it was close game. I mean, he was catching up on me on Foo Fighters, but I was able to score like 340 million on my first ball. So that helped a lot. So he had to really do a lot of catch up. And he was close. He came up to about 300 million. And then I was like, oh gosh, if he gets past me, all he has to do is start a multiball and I'm toes. But I was able to pull it off. So that felt really good. The other thing that's happening is I got, I think I have two people now at my school hooked on pinball. So now I have one of the teachers who teaches strategies, which is autistic kids. He is now attending every Tuesday. He's watching YouTube videos. He's really getting into it and he's starting to get to be a good player. So really happy for him. And got another person who is a custodian that's thinking about coming to a tournament. So I'm trying to do a little promotion, recruiting at my school to get some people to play in some pinball tournaments and basically catch the bug. Pretty soon you'll probably get a pinball machine, and there you go. Tournaments are still happening. We still have them in Incline Village. We have them in Press Start. And League just started. That was also a pretty exciting thing. We were playing five rounds, and we were tied with 33 points each. And we pulled it off and won by two points or sorry, by three points playing stall ball. Because on the fifth round, actually, the fourth round is after we play singles and doubles. And then the fifth round, we play stall ball to see who will pull ahead. And we pulled it off. So now we have a 1-1 record for league, which we do on Sunday nights, which is team league. And it's super fun and love the format. The scoring is perfect. We haven't had to change anything now, and things are really working well with that, and people are having a lot of fun. Other than that, there's a big tournament coming up on the weekend of March 2nd. It's a March Madness type of pinball tournament that's going to be going all day long from 10 in the morning until about 4, 5 p.m. with an amazing race finals, and that's happening over at Incline to Play up in Incline Village on March 2nd. So that's pretty cool. And then the other thing personally is I'm going to see Dream Theater on Sunday, that same day when they have the March Madness Pinball event, and excited to see their 40th anniversary tour at Grand Sierra Summit. Nice. Congrats, man. That's one of my favorite bands. So I'm super stoked to see the greatest hits of all the albums that they produced. And Mike Portney being back is awesome, having the original drummer from the band. which is like he's i mean widely regarded as just an amazing drummer you know he's a great respected within the musical community by all other musicians yep and mike mangini is no slouch either he's a great drummer too he's just more technical i like uh mike because mike portney does a good job with throwing in his own style and he just kind of uh he's very technical, but he's very creative in his drumming and likes to take risks. So anyway, that's what's happening with me. No games. I still have my Bond. Jason has new games at his place that we played. He's got a Shrek and he got an Austin Powers and he's starting to collect different games and kind of switch them in and out. So yeah, that's what I'm doing in Reno. Damn, what you been up to? not much just playing in league and playing in, uh, both the load. I am the Folsom leagues actually having halfway decent seasons and, uh, yeah, you know, play, play a little bit at home every once in a while. No new games on the horizon, nothing I'm really, uh, looking out for just, you know, keeping it, uh, keeping it steady, Eddie. Well, we got 81 days until, uh, the big show Golden State Pinball Festival. so yeah that's what it's all about right and that's been kind of the thing lately huh you know that's been on my mind every day now because it's getting closer and closer and especially when you have the countdown of how many days to go it reminds me i got to get either a hotel or figure out how i can get a spot on the campground so i'm working on that but i definitely am excited about that and uh i don't know when the tournament's going to be starting but obviously we can talk about that more in our next episode when we start getting closer to announcing all that stuff. Yeah. But yeah, I'm really excited about that, that you mentioned it. Well, you can always crash over here if nothing else works out. Although there's a chance that I might end up getting a, an RV. I need to get on that. Ooh. Okay. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. Yeah. Then we could all, then we could all just make it work that way. Yup. Of course, I'm sure Will's going to take a lot of space if I get an RV. so there you go they'll make there'll be a room so I'm not oh you guys don't know this I haven't even said anything I'm sorry we're booking hotels this year so we're going to flop on the floor at a whatever dirt bag hotel Spencer and Rusty end up in yeah we just decided you know because I mean it was you know some friends loaned us our RV last year it was very sweet and we could get it again this year but like I just don't want to take advantage, you know? And it's like, no, let's get a hotel this year. You know, make it easy on ourselves. We're flying this year. We're flying out. We're not driving. That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, it's just, man, it's an arduous journey. And we're flying out in March for our grandson's first birthday, too, so couldn't be a lot of that. Cool. So anything else going on in your world, Dan? negative ghost rider but i hear that you have some big news to announce i do and you you segwayed onto that on-ramp beautifully thank you yes i do i have news this week i ordered a dungeons and dragons pro what yeah really yeah yeah i ordered dungeon dragons pro um i ordered it Okay, because it's Monday night right now for us, for the listener who doesn't know. So, I ordered it Thursday night. So, I haven't got shipping dates or anything yet. But, you know, it's in stock. So, it should be here hopefully in a couple of weeks. So, by next episode, you guys, we talked about off-air, will have been able to play a version of the game hopefully. And then I'll be able to talk about mine in my game room. and then we can basically spend most of the episode in March talking about our impressions of Dungeons & Dragons. So, yeah, so Order of the Pro. It's really funny. We're debating. Rusty and I are like, okay, what camera are we going to get? And it's like, oh, Deadpool's still on the table. It's like, the Deadpool, I still want a Deadpool, but it's starting to come up used at a pretty good price. We get one down the road. It's a seven-year-old game. What's new? God, there's so much good new shit. And she goes, okay, you're going to order a game just for you, the game you want. What would you order? It doesn't matter what anybody else wants. I'm like, if I would just order just for me, it would be either an Iron Maiden or a Rush Pro. I said, I like both the bands. I like the music. I like the themes. I like the games. I like the gameplay. You know, both of those pretty equally well. I said, but it's a good family theme because, like, all the kids play D&D. Their friends play D&D. we have friends who play D&D with their kids so just kind of like oh okay so it's going to be a good family thing that everybody can enjoy so like the kids are calling their friends and telling them my parents just bought a Dungeons and Dragons and they're like oh please let me come over I'm like yeah totally we'll have an unboxing thing we'll have pizza or something it'll be cool and uh so I ended up going with that and then because the boys are like well what else was on the you know what did you talk about I'm like I don't know what we talked about you know everybody likes Blue Fires And Seth and Mickey went, yeah, we like that. That's a good one. And I know Mickey's crazy about Godzilla. And, you know, we talked about it a couple of years. I said Rush. And Mickey's like, why did you get Rush? I'm like, I didn't know you liked it that much. But he goes, well, I do. But Dungeons and Dragons is probably cooler. I'm like, it probably is. And it's different. And I congratulate you for getting a new inbox. I know you've been wanting to get a new inbox for a long time. And it's finally happening. So congratulations, Spencer. Yeah, it didn't necessarily have to be new in box, just another newer game, you know? Well, that's the other thing with Dungeons & Dragons. We're looking at, like, the rule set and, like, okay, this is probably going to be one where it's going to have a lot going for it for the home environment, so we're not going to get bored of it quickly. And we looked at that, too, you know, because that's a lot of money now, you know? There's a cool thing about owning the newest game out there, right? Yeah. I got my Mandalorian pretty early on, and it was still the newest Stern when I got it. And you just sort of feel like you're a part of something special. I mean, it's sad that they moved through the game so fast, so nothing gets to be the newest for long anymore. But it's cool that you're getting the new hotness. I mean, yeah, all those other games that you listed, they're all great games. And you've played them, and you know that they're good, and they're going to be out there. Dungeons and Dragons looks like it's going to be super super cool and you know it's going to be nice because you're going to be getting the new code as it comes out and you're going to be able to take part in all the cool events that they're going to have for that specific game and you're going to have something with Insider connected so you can discover that whole world and yeah you're going to really enjoy having the new thing it's pretty sweet yeah actually I already ordered like I ordered some new balls for today and you know it comes with brand new balls I know it does I know it does but just in case I got extra balls sitting here at the house so you know just you think you're gonna wear them out my no it's like okay my OCD is so fucking bad well what if the balls aren't of great quality or what if they like they forget to put the balls in and what the fuck am I going to do? I don't think I have enough balls here. I just opened the set because I was working on a... I was replacing a bulb the other day. A burnout LED bulb in Flash Gordon. And I lifted the play phone and I didn't think about pulling the ball out. So the ball rolls down and I lose the damn ball. So I opened up a new pack of balls and took the one I put in it because I couldn't find the damn thing. It's somewhere in the bottom of the game or behind. I don't know. You know, it's like, you know, it's where the socks go in the dryer. So it's probably against the transformer. No problem. It probably is. I haven't heard anything at all. I would probably go in there and find that pinball. Yeah, I'll look around for it again. It's there somewhere. Fireworks. Grounds for divorce. No doubt. Yeah, I looked around and they're pretty good and I didn't see it. And I ran my hand up near the transformer along that wood piece. So, yeah, I didn't see anything. But you're probably right. It's probably on the floor behind the game. Yeah, that's where it is. Because I've got a bunch of stuff stored back there, boxes and stuff, so it's in my totes. Because I moved a bunch of stuff around. We're doing some work on the basement and different parts of the house. Pre-spring stuff, getting stuff done. And, you know, we talked about it off there, Dan, you and I. So we got a lot going on right now. So that's what I got going on now. You know, that and, you know, fixing to come out for the show. And that's about it. I'm just working and getting excited for the show, you know. Well, when you're sick of it, I'll give you $2,500 for it. Or you can trade me, like, the shadow. You can trade me your shadow straight across. Oh, man, hands off my shadow, yo. every time I've traded an older game for a newer game, I've always, always regretted it. And you always try to get it back, right? I almost always do get it back, which is my problem. You do? No, I just always do that, and then invariably I just hate the fact that I did that. Uh-huh. But when I trade newer games for older games, I almost always walk out happy, so I don't even know what the deal is. You and I were talking about that a while back off air, and it's like there's something about those 80s and 90s games, man. They just have a – there's some – you know, the secret sauce, man, the magic, whatever it was, you know, and it just keeps calling you back, you know. I mean, I'm on Pinbot twice now, you know. I'm looking at stuff online that I've already owned. so it's hard it's hard not to go back like I need to sell like five games and I can't part with any of them they're all like super they're all my babies except for Guns N' Roses fuck that game if somebody wants Guns N' Roses I'll definitely sell it to you be warned though it's super broken it'll be back I'll figure it out but no like I said the great thing about, you know, getting, getting into one of the newer games is, you know, the, the technology's good. You know, you hook it to your wifi and it does all the wifi updates. And like, there's a lot of good stuff about owning a modern, uh, LCD display stern, or, uh, maybe, maybe a Jersey Jack. I don't know if Jersey Jack's on my bad side right now. Um, or even an AP, you know, we've all owned APs, but there's just something really nice about again, you're going to have the newest hottest thing going, and that's pretty cool. I haven't had a new turn since Mandalorian. Which I still think is a great game, you know. I think it's underrated. I think that game is not as bad as people want to say it is. Yeah, that and John Wick, both of those games. I think it's by the same design team, right? No, I don't think Dwight did the roles on Mando, did he? Yeah, he did. Oh, yeah. So it's by the same team as Dungeons and Dragons. It's the Brian Eddy joint. Shadow's a Brian Eddy joint. It is. You got a lot of Brian Eddy love going on here. There's a lot of Brian Eddy love. You know, something else I just found out. You know what else he made, though, Spencer? Stranger Things. Stranger Things, yeah. Your favorite. My favorite, yeah. So, man that gives my Achilles heel it's actually not terrible but like you said it's just mediocre it's just it's come around I think that a lot of people who bought it you know because all of a sudden they could get it again pretty much figured quickly how much it was just eh it's okay it's fine like if you really love the show there's something there to like but and that's the thing I really love the show so you know but you really love Stranger Things no I like the show I did like the show I really did you know it's funny oh they're going to do one more season I thought the first season was outstanding and then everything after that was like yeah it kind of it weighed but yeah the first season was really really well done it's funny you mention that so I'm looking because I'm already looking for mods and shit for the for the game there's a stranger thing shooter rod and it's a 20 sided die so it's like are they just going to recycle that or are they going to do like a dragon's head or an orc's something I don't know an orc's testicle it's an orc's testicle it should be like a beholder yeah like a big all round beholder you just grab the whole thing and shoot it. Actually, just the one mod you should never put on your game is like any sort of custom shooter rod that's any more than just a round ball. Thank you. Yep. We're talking about that too. We don't like anything that's like this massive, huge you know. Yep. It fundamentally changes the plunge and they almost never, you know, if it's a knob, great. If it's a ball, great you know if you can do like a soccer ball for like your world cup soccer or or you know a silver ball for something like actually i love the the chrome silver ball shooter i think that's a really really good mod if you really have to change your shooter rod but yeah people who put you know sword handles or you know star lord's head one of our buddies has like star lord's head yeah it's one of the it's one of the worst it's not even looking the right way How about the big gun that's from Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jack? That one's really awkward. And that's got some really, being a Pirates guy, I've got that game, that's got some really precise, it's got a half soft plunge skill shot. You can drop it in and you can get it up on the Black Pearl. I don't know how you do that with this gigantic gun handle hanging off of your game. like it just doesn't make any sense at all to me like why they thought hey i mean i guess thematically it looks cool right and a lot of a lot of mods a lot of guys you know pinballs are just dollhouses to them and you know the whole goal is just to dress them up and make them look cool uh but yeah some of those mods fundamentally change the way that the game plays and and hey if you're if you're fine with that it's your game you know i will still be happy to play your game with the crappy shooter rod and i won't even complain about it to your face because it's your game and it's in your house and i'm your guest but if you ask me what i think of it i'm going to tell you that it sucks that's yeah so uh the only time i've ever had a custom shooter rod was and it came to game when I got it was when I had Lord of the Rings it had the little clear blue side or acrylic or a ball with the ring inside and that wasn't overly obtrusive or anything because it was a number ball normal size and so I thought it looked cool actually so yeah and I mean it doesn't you know it's not going to ruin the game because it's still a ball unless it's super big Jurassic Park shooter rod with the amber like that's not a bad aftermarket or first party or third party, whatever you want to call it, shooter rod. I've got a custom shooter rod on Pirates. It came with it. It's the coin. It's just embedded into the end of the shooter. Because they're normal size. And I've got one on Metallica, but it's just like a multicolored like ball. Right. So it doesn't like change the way that, you know, the game plays necessarily. But, you know, there's just there's a, the gun handle is almost the perfect example of just like Why would you do that to yourself? Yeah, it's hard to figure out where he's shooting at. And then you're mad because that thing's like 200 bucks. Or you get injured walking into it. Or you get injured. That will never not make me think of like one of Brian's kids. As soon as he was that height, he just continuously kept pistol whipping himself on any of the games with gun shooters. And at the time, for whatever reason, Brian owned a few games that had gun shooters. And we were like, you know, if you put them side by side, he'll probably just walk back and forth between them. Like, you know, the black of the shooting gallery. That's funny. But yeah, every time. And Jamie's the same way. If there's a gun shooter handle on a game and it's somewhere where she walks, like she will walk into it. Oh, goodness. That's hilarious. So, yeah, so, okay, so we're talking about, you know, the mods and cool stuff like that. Latest rumors have been running around, because, you know, the Metallica remaster is doing well. It's pretty well received. And there's been rumors that started talking about remastering Walking Dead, which, you know, I can see that. I mean, I can see why. It wasn't like, oh, that wasn't, like, on the first time I bought it. but I could see reasons to do it. It could definitely use new art and a better presentation. Like it's a good game for some people. I'm not a huge fan, but you know, if it's in front of me, I'll play it. But there a subset of people who just love the crap out of that game And but I think that a lot of people maybe it not what they expected right Because it's a weird kind of Walking Dead and name only kind of thing. It's got zombies and it's got, you know, blood, but it doesn't have Rick and it doesn't have Daryl and it doesn't have characters and it doesn't have art from the show or from the comics, right? Right. Right. And just to, just to preface this, I've never watched the walking dead. The show. I've seen clips of it, but I've never watched one episode. So to me, walking dead, 100% needs to make it, uh, as a game, because I don't have any attraction to the theme. So like when I play walking dead, I'm like, Oh, you know, it's, it's a zombie game, right? Which is cool. There's not a lot of zombie pinball, uh, You know, it's kind of hard horror, which I think it might be the only hard horror Stern. From Stern, you're right. Right? Yeah. I can't think of anything else they've done. I mean, the only other thing that's horror would be maybe Stranger Things, but not hard horror like you said. Well, there's Stranger Things. There's Elvira. Yeah. You know, there's definitely, like, horror is good for pinball, right? Even if you go back in time a little bit, you know, you could always consider something like, you know, Dracula. You know, that's kind of weird, erotic horror. A lot of moans in that game. Yeah. Tales from the Crypt. Oh, you know, it's just like, oh, hello. Someone's having a good time. Yeah, Tales from the Crypt. Like, that's a good one. Even Adam's family, right? Like anything, you know, creature, creature from the Black Lagoon, anything that's like that safe, campy horror. But then every once in a while you get something that's like a little bit like. Edgier. A little bit edgier, right? You know, you get your Freddy or you get your Frankenstein, your Mary Shelley's. Yeah. Yeah. You know, or you get Dracula. Like Dracula doesn't have too much fun in it. Like it plays into the vampires and, you know, it's kind of hard horror. So maybe from the standpoint that like, you know, there's not a lot out else out there like it. Yeah, it would be interesting to see what assets they use, obviously, from the show. But it definitely would would hit the more edgier presentation, like you said, Dan, with actually zombies getting shot or killed or, you know, maimed or whatever, whatever the violence is depicted in that show. right it's got the lcd right so yeah get all that yeah the remaster would i mean the dmd goes pretty hard yeah it does it does like that animation of them like like smashing the zombie's head with the crowbar and it takes off his jaw or like the extra the extra ball animation on that game of shooting out the eye i mean yeah if you have a color display like you know they they went they went pretty hard on that. True. So I guess it wouldn't be too hard to do that, except just finding the right clips. You know a game that goes curiously hard with the gore on the DMD that nobody really thinks of, especially in color, is Dread. Yeah! Judge Dread has a lot of violence in it, especially in like Super Game and Move Your Car. Like, there's a scene where some dude takes an axe to the head. There's a scene where a dude gets melted with acid there's the guy that falls off the building and then splatters on the ground then the dog pisses on him if you do the button code oh that's right yeah you can get away with a lot on dmd it makes me wonder like with lcd how hard can they really go because it did feel like in a weird way metallica the animations and metallica i mean there's band footage and stuff but like the sparky scenes and whatnot you know they're exciting and they're full of lightning but like You don't see, like, heads exploding. Right. And eyes popping out like you do in the original game. So, you know, Walking Dead, it might go the other way, too, where some of the old ultraviolence doesn't make it because how is Stern going to justify, you know, wholesale zombie dismemberment when it's high definition rather than, you know, dot matrix? Yeah. Yeah, well, that may be a point of trying to reach a larger audience with a more PG version of that. That would suck. Like, if you're going to do it, you have to do it all the way. That was the good thing about Metallica. Like, when I finally did play Metallica, I sat down and played it, and I'm like, it feels like Metallica. the violence is there the swearing is there they didn't puss it out you're right when i was first watching the metallica stream you know they're at shows and stuff i'm supposing they were probably on family mode and i didn't hear the f-bombs and stuff and i was all like man did they did they sanitize this like did metallica sign off on that no way and so when i finally got to play it at a buddy's house, you know, and it was on full blast. It was like, oh, yeah, this is what you think it's supposed to be. And honestly, speaking, Dan, adding to that, the animations on that Metallica remastered are so well done with just the black and white. It's just so perfect. I can't imagine seeing it in color, to be honest with you. It just looks so cool. They're good. Like I said, they just, you know, because of the the difference between the dmd and the the uh alphanumeric or the alphanumeric the dmd and the lcd i'm thinking of our later topic too much um like again some of the some of the more fantasy elements you know don't quite make it but yeah it's you know it's super well done like the guys walking through like when you collect the band member and they walk through and they turn into bones. Like, that's dope. Yeah. Yep. But, yeah, I think Walking Dead is a good pick because I think that there's room for improvement there. Like, it's not that Walking Dead's a bad game. It's a great game. But I think that if they got the right rights this time and they can really, you know, nail the presentation and really keep the edge to it, edge is a good word, like, I think that's a good choice. You know, I know a lot of people were clamoring for other games, and I'm sure if they do, you know, as long as the rights work out and the money keeps rolling, I'm sure Stern will be more than happy to rehash every game that they've ever made. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's certain ones that they may not be able to get the rights to or might be too expensive or the technology. Because, you know, we're going back, what? Sam was after White Star, right? White Star was the original board set and that basically went all the way back to the Day to East days and it even has ties like to System 11 like essentially Sam was not quite a clone but it was very inspired by William System 11 that's what I had heard okay so you know like we're talking about that if you were gonna Dan if you like okay it's like Dan, you're up. Pick. Pick the game you want to do a remaster. What would you pick? For what it's worth, I gave you the perfect segue to that and you booted it. Did I really? I'm sorry. I thought I did a good segue. I was trying to set you up. Honestly, if I was going to pick a game that I would want to see a remaster of, I would go for Tron Legacy. And I know that's a popular answer, but you know, Tron Legacy is one of those games that it came out, it sold reasonably well, it's always in demand. But if you look at the technology that they have now and the artistic sensibility that they have now in pinball, and you wouldn't really have to change too much, just, you know, zhuzh what's there up, right? Like make it, you know, redo the art so that it looks, you know, a little fancier, keep the EL wire ramps, you know, and really go into the presentation on the DM or on the LCD screen versus the DMD. Because that was one of those games that I thought the DMD work was okay, but it uses like some digitized stuff, which never really looked great. And it did that little thing where you had like the, it had like the two thirds of it was a display and then the one third of it was always blocked aside for the score right yep i mean that would be a game that like i would love to see on an lcd because the movie looked so good and the clips could be integrated you know extremely well because the dmd software was based mostly on clips and then occasionally little little animations and you know you could just bring over the existing sound, just punch it up. You know, they already had the Daft Punk music and the soundtrack. But they could add more, right? They could add more tracks to it if they got the rights. If they got the rights. But even what they had was super good. And then, you know, the voice and the, you know, they didn't use a lot of celebrity impressions. You know, they just used clips from the movie for the most part. So, you know, there's a chance to take that game and actually, you know, make it better, make it more, you know, maybe work in some, you know, because the game itself is pretty straightforward. So maybe work in a little bit of extra rules, but, you know, it's just all about buffing up that presentation, right? You're not trying to change the game. You're just trying to take what's there and make it better. But to me, you know, even just a straight, you know, bringing it over, And just upscaling everything and just making it look better and putting it on the LCD screen and giving me Insider Connected. And giving me a chance to own, you know, a premium version, which they've never made, of Tron Legacy and not have to, you know, mortgage my house would be really, really cool. You know what would be really cool for like an LE model is if it trailed with the ball. So when you went up the ramp, the light would basically track the ball and be able to make it when you make it around the wire ramp. That would be cool. Looking almost like a light cycle. You know, there's a mod that does that. Really? Yeah. I don't even know if it's even just for Tron. I think it's for Star Trek. But the idea isn't that it actually tracks the ball. the idea is that they just sort of programmed it to, you know, the kind of average ball speed. Yeah. And it just sort of follows, it follows where the ball would be. And I'm like, that's pretty genius. Like, that's pretty genius. Like Elton John. I'm sure they've done it for Legacy. I mean, if there's a mod that hasn't been built for Tron Legacy, I don't know what it is, but. Okay. I would just be happy, you know, they don't need, you know, the EL wire ramps were already so cool. Like it was already like, it was the perfect toy. for that game like making ramps into a toy is is an art form right and putting that el wire on those ramps is is great you know the pro is fine but almost every pro you know the owner went through and put the el wire ramps on it yep so yeah for me my pick legacy good pick what about you mark who would you remaster? Well, I have to agree with you, Dan, on the Tron. I think that would be a great one because, like I said, they could add other code elements to it, to the existing game. So they could definitely touch that up. If it was an ideal situation, though, and it was possible, which I really highly doubt it isn't, but I would say it, Lord of the Rings would be awesome if they could use the movie clips from the different parts of the game because they'd have to get rights to three movies. But that game is so good. It's just one of those classics that would be awesome to remaster. I know there's a lot of people having that as a wish list item. But realistically, I think Tron would be the one they could pull off because they got stuff that would do, you know, work with the rights with Disney and all that stuff. So, yeah. I think Lord of the Rings is a really good pick, though. Yeah. Because I do think that Lord of the Rings, like, if you go back to how it was originally presented, was a triumph of presentation, right? It had good enough art for its day. The art really is kind of one of those things where it's like, it's not that the art itself is bad, but Stern used kind of a really sketchy quality in those days. and the voice work and the music are outstanding. Agree. It was so ahead of its time. So ahead of its time. But the thing that always killed me about Lord of the Rings pinball, and I owned one for a long time, was that the presentation for Fellowship of the Ring, awesome. Especially the multiball sequence with the cave troll. Yep. The presentation for the two towers. Awesome. You know, the new power is rising. Awesome. The presentation for Return of the King sucked because I think the game kind of came out like somewhat between two towers and Return of the King. So there really wasn't much Return of the King content yet. So there really weren't call outs. You know, there really wasn't anything specific. So you could go in and actually finish the final third of the game. Put some really good art on it. Those Lord of the Rings cast members almost always seem willing to come back and do something related to that project. So, you know, maybe the rights wouldn't be ridiculously hard to get. Of course, they're owned by Scamazon. So, you know, your mileage may vary. But yeah, man, like how great would would, you know, a great looking, great playing. You know, it's a Gomez design and one one of the best. The Balrog was a great toy that their backboard with the ring on it, I still think is one of the most genius things. And it's ridiculous that almost every machine you ever play has that turned off. Yeah. But yeah, man, I think I think Lord of the Rings is a great pick. I think the more I think about it, I think Lord of the Rings is almost a better pick than Tron. Okay. But, you know, I'm sticking to my guns. Okay. Instead of copying you? I've had Lord of the Rings. I'll go with Lord of the Rings as my pick for an awesome remastered edition from Stern. Both great choices, and, you know, having also owned Lord of the Rings, I would love to see an update. and with Tron both of the films are so visually stunning you know I mean they really those kind of focal points of the movie is because they're creating a world inside of a computer like oh this is our interpretation of what it might look like and so they're visually stunning in that aspect and the game can reflect that and reflect it even more yeah Lord of the Rings would be a great choice and again I've owned it like Darren I'd love to have another one I'd love to see him redo it. My choice, though, is The Simpsons Pinball Party. Same era, same year as Lord of the Rings. But the reason I picked that is because it's similar to Lord of the Rings. It's got so much going for it. But to upgrade it from the dot matrix animations to the actual just clips of the show and then having the artists and the writers do custom clips for the call-outs would be amazing. I can see where you're going with that, but honestly, with Simpsons Pinball Party, I think that that's almost a perfectly realized game, and I don't think that it loses much from the animations being on the DMD. If you're going to do a remastered Simpsons Pinball Party, I feel like you only do it if you can get custom animation. Right. Like if they will animate the scenes from the game, you know, like the, the multiball start where it's all like, you know, come on out Simpsons. You're under arrest for what? Hoarding pinballs. We'll see about that. Come on. Like if they could make an animation for that, that would be excellent. Excellent. Right. Or anything on the show that you can really steal that's going to quite do that. Or the balls, like the ball flopping on top of them or something like that. Like the couch scene when you have multiball, right? And you actually see that. That's what I was saying. That whole scene is great. But I don't know if there's something on the show that – I mean, there's – I guess that there's probably everything on the show. There's probably a pinball sequence. But, yeah, you got to – if you can save the original or bring that stuff in, you know, although some of the stuff in the game, you know, would probably end up being replaced because it's timed out. Like they'd have to replace Apu. Oh, yeah. I've never been a fan of that. I always liked Apu. I thought he was a great character. I haven't really watched the show in years, though, but I just thought it was – It must always be so good. Yeah. It's still on the air. It's probably one of the longest TV series in history. It's crazy how long it's been. And just imagine going through 35 years of footage and trying to put it together in a game. I think, Dan, you're right. Make it an original animation. That would be a lot less work than trying to go through all the clips. You know, the most genius of who's seen ever in that show is like a scene where Homer's at the at the Quickie Mart. and he's talking about how he wants to improve and he wants to be better. And he goes to Apu and he orders something and Apu's like, can I get you some vodka with that? Homer's like, yeah, sure. That's funny. Skittle, bro, you know, that beer with the candy in it. I do not think that exists, Mr. Homer. Okay, well then get me a six-pack of duff and some Skittles. I'll get this get this party going that's my choice there's so many others we've talked about you know ACDC there's a wide range of games that can be remastered I don't think they can do ACDC unless they get Steve Ritchie to come back and redo his call outs and for the record I don't believe that's going to happen yeah no you brought that up and that's a great point so much of that game would be lost if Steve Ritchie wasn't yelling at you No, that's a great point, too. See, these are all good points. You and I were talking, we all were, the three of us were talking, you know, about, well, because we're talking, we're all real excited about me getting a new game and new games coming and the show and remasters and all that stuff. There's a lot of newer people into the hobby in the last, we'll say, five years, maybe a little more. and they're only into the new games. They've never played any of the old games. You know, a lot of them have probably never played a Simpsons pinball party, which that's a, what, 22-year-old, 23-year-old game? 2003. So it's like a 22-year-old game now, so it'll lower the rings. It's weird being that old now. So I wanted to go back, really back, like in the way back machine. We talked about that, which is where I'm driving the bus now. So we're going to pick, each of us, one game that we're going to recommend to the listeners that we really like. Early solid state from each of the four main companies of that era. So that's Gottlieb, Valley, Williams, and Stern Electronics, one that we recommend. and if you can find them in a show or a collector's house or on location, definitely give these games a chance because I think the three of us are all going to pick pretty outstanding stuff that the listener probably or maybe has never seen or played. I picked absolute garbage. And only stuff that you've heard of. I picked the whole Valley class of 81, just saying. Oh, did you really? Okay, cool. No, because you made me pick different manufacturers. Actually, I consciously avoided doing that. God damn. I did pick a game from the class of 81. So did I. You knew I would. I went all over the place. So we'll see what my picks are like. Okay, so let's start with Mark and let's start with Golly. Are we going to go by manufacturer or are we going to go just by – Golly, Valley, Williams, Stern Electronics, that order. Okay, so I broke the rules of it. I made it a little more challenging. I did my top four, making sure I had four different manufacturers. Is that okay? That's what we're talking about. So start with your Gottlieb. Okay. So should I say what rank it is? No, just say the game. Okay. So the one that I like from Gottlieb for a solid state was Joker Poker. I love that game. Mark. Your twinsies, buddy. Really? Yep. I picked Joker Poker. No way. Yeah, that's mine too. That is too funny. Oh my gosh. It's such a good game. Everybody's going to go, why didn't you pick Black Hole or Haunted House? Yeah. Because they're both great games. Yeah. Or Spirit. Black Hole and Haunted House are big and complicated and really not as much fun to play. Joker Poker is an execution-based game with really neat rules. great rules and that's super super super super easy to know but super super hard to do and it's it's awesome in in league or in tournaments yeah it's got everything going for it such a great game of the era it's got the great artwork the pretty girls on the back glass it's a card theme chock full of drop targets. It screams late 1970s Gottlieb. And that came from 78, I believe. 79, right? 78. 78, because they made a very small run. That was right at the transition from electromechanical. The Yards, classic. It gets it done. It's not a game that I feel like you look at because it's just beautiful, but at the same time it's a really nice looking game it's it's bright it's fun to play but at the end of the day i think that this is just a gameplay game you know the way that the way that it works with with clearing out the suits and and getting your play field multipliers and having to hit you know as you go through having to hit those harder to hit uh sets of drops is just you know it's super challenging and it's super fun and you know it's it's just a great game because it's it's again it's execution based you know it's not that you can't do it you just have to get out there and do it right sorry if i stole your thunder i was all no you didn steal my thunder you know you totally you totally I knew we were I was wondering I like dude I bet we going to have a lot of crossover We'll probably have crossover, but that shows we're smart in our selection, right? Yeah. So on to the next game. We've all picked the same Gottlieb game. Early Solid State, and that's 1978's Gottlieb Joker Poker. So we're on to Bally. Dan, do you want to start with the Bally? Okay, I will start with My Valley. And My Valley, this is probably my most like, oh, of course, pick. But my pick is 1981's Fathom. And there's just two huge things to like about Fathom. And I know that everybody knows what Fathom is. It definitely isn't a deep cut. But first of all, it's gorgeous, right? It's just a beautiful game to look at. And second, it's just got tons of inline drops, and inline drops are just fun. So I think that if you were, you know, if money was no object and you asked me which of the class of 81 that I had, it would be a hard choice between Centaur and Fathom because Centaur is a beast of a game. But at the end of the day, I think that Fathom just looks so much nicer, and it just has such a great vibe that I just always enjoy shooting it. And it's a game that I owned for a split second. I never played it because it was super dead and I traded it away. But if I could get another Fathom, I certainly would. Good choice. It's a great choice. That's a great choice. And that's a hard choice for that era of Bally. Oh, it was like, you know, you have to agonize, right? Because there are like five great Bally's, and then there are several more super good Bally's. Right. Of that era, yeah. Yeah, they were – Bally was the – like they were kicking ass in early solid state. Like they had it going on. Williams was doing some great stuff, some really great stuff. but like at the end of the day you know I don't think that you were beating you know Flash Gordon and Fathom and Centaur and just the stuff that Bally was cranking out almost you know even their B games like Fireball 2 and some of their other stuff oh wasn't 8 Ball Deluxe a Bally? Yeah it's also class of 81 8 Ball Deluxe just huge like all of the All of the icons, not all of the icons, because obviously Williams had Black Knight in that era, and they had some real bangers, but yeah, Valley was the king. Valley brought their A game in that era. And the thing about Phantom that I really like is the idea of the in-line drop targets to lock a ball. That's just so cool. You had to shoot that loop to get up there, and then when you light the spinner, you really get a satisfying shot. The extra ball when you have to hit it with the stand-up target. And it's all like, oh. Just so many good things, you know. Yeah, it's a great one. It is a great one. Do you have anything else to go on that, Dan? No, I mean, I'm good. I want to hear what you guys said. I mean, it's, again, Fathom is a hard game to kind of, you know, it's like everybody knows what Fathom is all about. I don't really have any like trivia or anything that I think that you probably don't know about Fathom. It's just fun to shoot. It's got tons of inline drops, which, again, I think is its claim to fame. Like Mark said, you know, the lock behind him is great. But it's just gorgeous. I mean, it's gorgeous. It's fun. It's got some good stuff to shoot. Well, so it was a near miss for me. I'd love to have it again. But like, yeah, there's there's you know, you guys are all going to pick other ballets from this era that are all going to be bangers, too. So let's hear them. I want to hear more. All right. So mine you mentioned already, but it's Centaur. I like Centaur because I like the multiball aspect of it. In fact, when I first played that game and I really wasn't aware of it, I didn't realize how many multiball there were with five balls going at once, which is really cool with the orbs. I love the little captive ball that you have to shoot with the drop targets behind it. That is really cool. Obviously, the sound effects are great. The speech, great geometry. Really amazing how somebody came up with the idea of being able to shoot the ball and miss all four targets going in the middle. I don't know how that's possible, but it happens all the time when I'm trying to shoot for those targets. I love the rule where if you hit the targets in order, that launches a ball. Just great rules for such a basic game. It really is more complex when you look under the hood of what it can do and your strategy of playing it. So I just love that game. Yeah, and a five-ball multiball with an auto-launcher in 1981. Yeah, how far ahead of its time? With an auto-launcher on top of that. You're right. Exactly. That kind of blew me away, too. And then the other thing was – Power orbs. Release power orb. Yep. And then the other thing I like is where you have the outlane that you have to bump to get back into play if you get it just the right nudge. Just really clever design. Who designed that? Who designed Centaur? Was that Dave Christensen? Was it Christensen? Okay. I don't know. Who's got the internet? I guess I could look it up, couldn't I? I'm on it now. I should have known that, but I forgot. Let's see. Who's going to look it up first? I got it. I got it. I got it. It's coming. It's opening right now. Come on, Internet. Jim Patla. Jim Patla. Okay. Full school. My Reuben Merchant and artwork by Paul Faris. Artwork is the one thing on Centaur. Like, it's striking. Yeah. But I don't, you know, like, it's cool, but I don't think it's like, oh, this is super, super gorgeous. I mean, it's great. It's just I don't, you know, I don't find myself wanting to look at the bug-eyed biker chick and the motorcycle man. Yeah, you'd rather look at mermaids, you know, and a nice colorful blue and green motif. It's the colors. It's the colors, man. But, yeah, that was, that's, like I said, I think Centaur is the king. Centaur is the game that I was going to pick, and then I was like, ah, that's a little too obvious. I'll choose 1A. Okay, cool. Spencer is obviously going to choose Flash Gordon. So he'll choose 1B. Okay, sponsor. Obviously. Go for it. Yeah, okay, yeah. So obviously it's the game I own, game I own for some time. Did you pick Flash Gordon? I did pick Flash Gordon. Boom. Boom. You know, what's funny is it's – and the only reason that game isn't rated higher probably is because for that era, it's still a single ball game. But it works for that. You know, it's based on a cheesy, really cheesy. It's based on an awesome, really cheesy soundtrack and cheesy sci-fi movie. Yeah. It's become part of this. Yeah, exactly. You have the, if you've ever opened up the flash, the flash bowl, in the center of the black glass. I could do that for like five hours. It's like an old school cannon or a Minolta flash unit. So it's a real, you know, that's why those things burn out so much probably. It's got everything, man. It's inline drops, straight ahead. The rule set on that game, spinners. You've got two spinners. You've got an upper play field with, you know, a bank of drop targets, kind of hard to hit little bonus target. if you get it past the single drop target in the shooter lane and get it back you get to collect your bonus and the little the little stand-up target up in the upper playfield to the left of the one single uh uh the third uh pop bumper that's also a collect bonus you have two sets of bonus an upper and lower playfield bonus you know you get and you you get okay so when you get certain things lit, you can get in the saucer, you can get double or triple bonus for 15 seconds. You can get triple bonus, and then if you have your bonuses up, so you do your inline drop targets, and you can get up to three times bonus. And if you get that on the first ball, you keep that for the rest of the game. And then the upper bank of drop targets in the upper part of the play field, that's your 4x, and then the bank, the lower bank, is your 5x. So if you can get down on the first or second ball, you keep it for the whole game. And then if you get that the spinners lift are worth a thousand a spin and you get that double or triple bonus on that for the 15 seconds, just start hammering those spinners and you can just rocket. You rocket point so fast that the game stops making noise for a second because it's got to catch up. I've actually had that happen. It's just, no matter how many games I've owned or how many games I've had in the collection at one time, that's the one I go to the most. To this day, that's the game I play the most. And you can't forget, Spencer, about the up kicker and the down kicker in one mech. Yeah, yeah. The saucer. And so every ball you hit it the first time and it kicks down towards the lower part of the play field. You hit it again, it kicks towards the upper part, then lower, then upper, then lower, then upper. And a lot of times when you kick it When it kicks the upper It goes right towards that drop target That goes back to your shooter lane And it comes straight back down to the saucer again And sometimes it'll do that more than once But anyway Yeah, so that's my pick And that's why that's my fifth But there's so many good Valley games From, you know, Kiss Six Million Dollar Man Frontier, Mystic You know that whole era of the late 70s on up into the 80s. The entire class of 81. Yeah, a lot of good stuff. So, hey, Dan, do you want to kick us off on word to Williams now? Didn't I start us off on Bally? Yeah. You want to let Mark start us off on Bally? Or you can start us off. We did Bally. We did Gottlieb first. Williams. I'll start us off on Williams. I'll just do a back-to-back. Oh, yeah. It's your turn to start with one. Okay. Yeah. My Williams pick is from their 1980 group. Absolute. You actually mentioned it, I believe. No, you mentioned Black's Night. Mine is Firepower. Okay. Firepower. Firepower. Absolute Steve Ritchie classic. Single-level play field. Unassuming when you look at it. No drop targets. or was in the original prototype. That's for another story. Three ball, multiball, speech, although primitive, but speech for the time. Fire, power. That's just like Flash Corners. It's got that one more game feel. You know, you lock the balls, you rip the spinner, you hit all your targets, you get multiball, and then you start really – if you have three balls, you start really hammering points. You get down to two balls, you're still getting points, but not as many. But then when you're in two or when you're in multiball, it's easier to reset up everything to re-lock the balls. So when you lose multiball, to start multiball again. So once you hit that plateau, it's much easier to keep. Yeah, it's just it's just it's one of those games of that era where it's just like that's a game where you can have a single game in the collection and be pretty happy and continue to have fun playing it. Now, what is the first thing on there? There was something that was unique that Firepower kicked off as far as a new innovation. What was it? Yes, it was. Thank you for bringing that up. It was lane change. Lane change with the flippers. Lane change. That's right. Yeah, that was the first game to have. When you play a game that doesn't have lane change, it's terrible. It feels weird, doesn't it? Like you're nudging and you're trying and you're hitting the flipper button because you really need that lane to be lit up. Yeah, lane change is one of the genius little things. It's just manipulation of the play field just by changing a light bulb. But it changes your shot. It gives you control of your destiny. Right. Yeah, that was one of those game changers, no pun intended. And an ass kicker when you hit those center targets, but it does have that one more game play. No doubt. Yeah. I mean, it's got everything going for it. It's just a really good for the, for the, for the era. It's a fantastic layout. Yeah. And easy to find. Those are easy to find those. Well, they made a lot of them. Yeah. They made a lot of them. 15, 20,000 of them. Yeah, exactly. Quintessential Steve Ritchie. Yeah, exactly. Like it just really is. It's, it's, it's brutal. It's, it's, you know, it's got a lot of like, whoopsie-doos, like it's got shots that'll just murder you. It's got a great multiball. Like, firepower is super-duper good. Yeah, easy to learn, easy to play, hard to beat. So that's mine. Good. Good one. Mark, what do you got? All right, mine is different. It's not firepower. Firepower. Yeah, that was better. Not my impression. Mine was cosmic gunfight. Oh, that's a good one. I like that one a lot because I like the rule where you can, speaking of lane change, you can not lane change, but stand up target change with one flipper. And then you can change the other part of the matrix with the other flipper. So it's the left and right work together to be able to do that, which is really cool. The other thing I like about it is the sound effects and the three ball. I think there's a three ball multiball on that one too. But it's really hard to get that started because you have to get basically spell A, B, and C in three rows, which will then qualify your bonus. I think they call it cosmic time or something like that. Yeah, cosmic time. Is it cosmic time? Okay, I did get it right. I believe that that's what it is. Yeah. Shannon ended up with a really nice one. I'm sure you know where it came from. and we were playing that at League last week. Yeah, that game is awesome. Yep, it's awesome. And I love the ending where it goes, Yeah, that's really cool. Gotta give the love to those 80s sound effects and voices. Oh, man. Like, I know for a lot of folks, they're just like, oh, the sound and music in modern games and this, that, and they need to change speakers. It's all like, yeah, what you really need is a game that the soundtrack is like, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a good one. Yeah, it's definitely a fun layout, and the artwork is really cool on the back glass. It really is original. The only thing that kills it for that game is just the simple fact that they didn't make very many. They didn't make many. They're very rare to play. I know. You're fortunate to have one now in Sacramento. That's because it's an amazing game. It is. It's a great game. Love it. So that was my pick for a Williams. I don't know what year it was, but I know it fit under that criteria. 81, I think. Was it 81? Yeah, of course. So that was my pick. All right. Dying to hear what Dan's pick is. I'm going to go for Black Knight. Okay. Because Black Knight is essentially Flash Gordon with multiball. Or it could be said that Flash Gordon is Black Knight without multiball. They're very similar games. Black Knight is one of them. I mean, it's like the first multilevel play field. I think Black Knight was first and then Bally. I think Black Knight was being developed first and then Bally kind of swept by him. And I know that there was some saltiness about it. But a lot of the stuff that, you know, we talked about with with firepower, like really applies to Black Knight, but just more so. It's it's got shots on it that are just absolute killers. It's got that that Steve Ritchie, you know, quality that that that flow, that shot quality. It doesn't take any prisoners. It's got Magna Save on both lanes, which is really, really cool. Neither of the more modern Black Knights have that. It's got fantastic art. It's got the wub wub wub wub wub wub. It's got, you know, really good voice, actually, for that era. I mean, it's not really, really good voice, but it speaks in whole sentences, which I always thought was just amazing. and I remember when I was a kid the arcade where my parents would go for their bowling league they'd give me some quarters and tell me to go to the arcade and there was a black knight and as you know I was probably like I don't know 6-7 years old I was a little scared of that game like you know it was big and imposing and it had the mechanical voice and it would start laughing the black knight will slay you I guess that was like a really early version of like, you know, Steve Ritchie's style. You know, he loves he loves the games to be adversarial. And, you know, Black Knight was definitely one of those early adversarial games. I think as time has gone by, I went from liking Black Knight a lot more than Flash Gordon to liking Flash Gordon a lot more than Black Knight. but Black Knight is still, you know, a super great example of a game from its era. And it's very common too. I mean, I'm sure that a lot of them have died, but I think they sold 15,000 or so. So it's not a cosmic gunfight where, you know, you're going to run across it in high-end private collections. You know, pretty much anyone who collects games from the 80s probably has a Black Knight. Cool. and when you look at it you it's iconic to the 1980s yeah it's like black knight might be the quintessential pinball machine of the early 80s i agree like just it was so big and you know steve was definitely the the king designer until you know lawler came along to challenge him and that was, you know, much later in the decade. You know, I know that, you know, one of my favorites by Williams is a little bit later and that Space Shuttle, you know, Space Shuttle gets a lot of respect for being, you know, in 85, I think the game that kept pinball open. But, you know, I think that Black Knight, you know, even more than Space Shuttle, even more than some of those later games, you know, just really was like a touchstone. And, you know, it got two sequels, which I mean, it's not the first pinball machine to get a sequel. Fireball got sequels, you know, Firepower got a sequel. But yeah, you know, the Black Knight franchise endures in pinball, you know, basically to this day, they just made more Black Knight sort of rages last year. Yeah. I don't think many of the other franchise or many of the other titles from the early 80s can say that, you know, the Black Knight. The Black Knight lives on and he's still kicking our asses. He's still slaying us. Yeah, no, and it's like I said, we'll run into people frequently that are very casual pinball people. They don't go to the conventions. They don't go to, you know, online. They're not chatting on the forums and things. But if it comes up, go, oh, my God, I used to play Black Knight all the time in high school or college or when I was at the bowling alley with my parents when I was six, seven, eight years old, or Black Knight 2000. I'll hear a lot of people, oh, Black Knight 2000, and that was my game in junior high, you know. And so we get that a lot from a lot of casual people. So it crosses over to more mainstream. Black Knight 2000 was definitely the game that made me go, like, I really like pinball. Yep. Yep. Like, to me, I saw that game, I think it was at the BX at McClellan. and I put some quarters in and got absolutely dominated, but for probably like the 30 seconds that that 50 cents lasted, I was like, this shit is awesome. And don't forget, it has the Magna Save. So that was another thing that was unique, right? It had a Magna Save in that one too. So Black Knight, original Black Knight had two Magna Saves. That's right. Okay. One on each side, which was a thing that happened. Grand Lizard had it, a lot of games. Didn't Pharaoh have two Magnasave? Yeah, Pharaoh and Solar. Black Knight 2000, Black Knight Sword of Rage, they both only have one Magnasave. Right. And then they have a kickback or a virtual save on the other lane. Yep. Cool. Good one. So we're down to the last, the Stern Electronics, our favorite early solid-state Stern Electronics game. Who'd like to start? Starn Electronics yeah I'll start and I'm gonna go ahead and get out there and I don't you know I don't have like the knowledge of Starn Electronics like I've played I've played their games you know it seems like it seems like those games have really come into vogue and a lot of people are really liking them but there's one game and I only get to play it at the Flipper Room but every time that I go there I just play it to the exclusion of all else. And that's Stern Dracula. Okay. And I don't even know why. I guess a lot of people say that Stern Dracula is not one of the more impressive early Stern games. But man, I think that game is fun. Like there's just something about it's got like kind of a weird. I mean, and to put this in the perfect perspective, the one at the Flipper Room is modified. It plays Castlevania music while you play it. and that's definitely what got me started on it. But like I will play a Stern Dracula even if it doesn't have the Castlevania tunes. It's just, you know, I couldn't even really articulate what the rules are. I know it has something to do with like knocking down the drop targets and then there's like a weird little, like it's almost like a saucer and it's got like a pocket around it and you got to kind of get the ball up in the little circle. And it's just, you know, it's a neat, weird game. You don't see it a lot. And, you know, it kind of goes back to that, you know, I think horror-themed pinball machines are always really fun. And interestingly enough, it was designed by Harry Williams. Oh, okay. But yeah, it's got like... I did not know that. yeah it's got like you know stern love to do kind of weird things with like they would have like drop target i could have like a drop target bank but it would be kind of behind pop bumper so you need to rely on pop bumper action a lot right and like stargazer yeah and i think i think that's one of the cool things about a lot of the early sterns is like they really you know they really do kind of, you know, make you depend on the mechanical action of the pinball machine to do at least some of the work for you like you gotta kind of get lucky but it not of course all luck um yeah it just it hard to articulate why i like that game so much but i do think that it is just a really super fun game and of all the sterns that like if i was gonna go out and and get one and if i'm not hating sea witch that day because sea which is also really really cool but it's got the same thing you got that top bank of drops that you Pretty much you have to hit it up in there and hope that the pop bumper does some work for you. Like, I think that I would go for Dracula. Also because you can get Dracula for, like, half the cost of a sea witch. Cool. It's a fun game. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you what's so good about it. It's just convenient and fun. And, you know, the art's kind of a little janky. Like, it's not – it's certainly – you don't look at it and go, like, this is the best Stern Electronics game. but for whatever reason every time i step up to that game and i play it i just have a good ass time yeah and isn't that what it's all about absolutely and it is a fun layout and yeah i know what you mean i played it actually i played it a little bit when i was at chicago expo and it wasn't playing as well as it should have but then when i went to flipper room yeah i kept going to that one too when i went to go visit there's yeah something about it games that you're just like Uh, does anyone else waiting to play this? Cool, I'm going again. Yeah, everybody was always on that machine. I was always waiting for something to be done. So, yeah, it's a good game. It is. What do you got, Mark? All right, well, here's mine. And I really didn't know this game really well until I always saw it in every tournament. And it just, for some reason, there's something about it that it just makes it super fun. It's so simple. And that game is Stars. That game, for some reason, is super fun because it's so simple where you have to hit those stand-up targets to get that bonus spinner and then rip it. You have the drop targets in the back that are really fun to shoot. Obviously, the spinner sound and the combination of the classic EM sound with the bells, but then it has a digital display. It kind of sets you back, but then at the same time, it's modern in that time. So I really enjoy that game a lot. Every time I play it at gyms, it's just so addictive. It's like, okay, I got to get another one. I got to get all five stars or I got to hit all those drop targets down or, oh man, I got to get the super bonus. Yeah. It's just, it's just a great game. So anyway, that's what mine is. You want to hit like four of the five drop targets to get your spinner value up, but you don't want to complete it because then it takes your spinner value back down. Or is that meteor? That's meteor. That's Meteor. I really like Meteor, too. Stars is cool. Yeah. Meteor is great. It's funny you guys mention those because those are both Steve Kirk and. Interesting. Huh. Yeah, I just really enjoy that one. It's very interesting how it always messes me up when I look at it first on the backbox when you have the way the scores are displayed. They're like not the typical, you know, left to right. They're kind of on an angle. So like the one, two, three, and then like four is back down at the bottom. Yeah, exactly. That was kind of interesting. It definitely makes it more unique. But it's a great game. And I think if I'm not mistaken, I think Jim has the newer code on it that makes it even more fun. So I think there's a newer code, isn't there? Or am I imagining things? I don't know. There was something where they made it a little more less basic and a little more complex. But I can't speak within the authority. My oldest earned his Transformers. Okay. All right. Anyway, that's the one I pick. It just keeps me playing over and over again, trying to rip that spinner. Man, when you can rip that spinner and you got all five stars lit, oh, it's so satisfying. But the hard part is it's really lining up that right shot, up that loop. It is really tough to get it aligned right and get it hitting just perfectly where you can just get that spinner going. But, yeah, really cool idea. I love it how the more stars you get, the more multiplier you get. And, yeah, it's a great game. So that's my pick for Stern Electronics, Stars. Both of those are great games that I really love. And it's really funny because I was thinking about Stars. It's not my favorite, but it's one of my favorites of that era because of its simplicity. And it's just a solid game. It's just a good, solid game with an easy-to-figure-out team. You know, it checks all the boxes for the era especially, and it's still to this day a very fun shooter. So, yeah, both great choices. So mine, because there's so many games, just like with Bally, that era Stern, Adam Williams, Eddie Magali, those guys were just pumping out great games after great games. So mine is the one, the third game in the Steve Kirk series, the one that you guys didn't mention because Dan mentioned Meteor, also a great game, is Nineball. Oh, gosh, I forgot all about Nineball. Nineball, you know, if you said, hey, pick any of the early, it's like pick any, it's like, dude, money's no object, whatever. what early Stern electronics game would you want out of all of them? Out of, you know, Stargazer or, you know, was it Black Belt? No, Valley was Black Belt, right? What was the Kung Fu game? Maybe it was Kung Fu, right? I think it was Black Belt. Was it Black Belt? Yeah. Okay, good game. Or, oh, gosh, what's another one? Sea Witch. I love Sea Witch. Or, oh, Quicksilver. Another one. It's a really valuable game these days. great game all great games but for me it's it's nine ball i love the back glass heart with the wizard and you know the balls and these you know using his magic wand to move them through the cosmos um i love the playfield layout and we'll start with a skill shot so if you never play that game if you full plunge you won't hit the skill shot you have to do less than a full plunge but more than a half plunge. And the skill shot is kind of, it's at a weird angle, and it's really difficult. It takes real skill to hit that shot, especially to hit it more than once a game. It's a two-ball, multiball. When you get multiball, you get two balls in play at the same time. There's really no point of it beyond that. From what I understand in competitive play, there's a glitch in that, and they've never been able to figure out how to get it 100% right. I don't know all the ins and outs. I don't think I've ever played it competitively. I just played it at friends' homes, you know, in their collections and a couple of places on location that had it. But I just love that game, man, everything about it. And those side drop targets are so fun. And then if you want to, once again, it's kind of like stars where you can hit that secret skill shot up, or not secret, But that skill shot to hit that stand-up target, and then it lights all the lights, and you can just rip that spinner and get, you know, I don't know. What is it, like 10,000 a spin? I can't remember. Yeah, something crazy. Yeah, yeah. I forget the amount, too, like 18,000 or something a spin. Yeah. And that's the thing. And also just hitting any of that long bank of one through nine pool balls on the drop targets is you hit, like, I forget, like four or five or whatever it is. You hit so many, and you light all the lights on the spinner. Once you hit that spinner, the second the spinner stops moving, it shuts down, and you have to start it all over again. And so you better hit that thing for like a good rip. And if you get a good rip, you can really hammer the points. But again, it's risk-reward because once you hit it and it's spinning, if you don't get a good spin on it, you know, a good solid straight-ahead hit, But that's it, man. And just it's that's that game where you just it's so satisfying to light all the lights and just rip the hell out of that spinner. And again, it's a simple game, but it scratches the edge. It's so like I said, the artwork, everything on the game just screams like I'm 14 years old again and hanging out in a pool hall where I'm not really supposed to be. You know, and I'm playing that game, you know. And that geometry is so cool how if you do hit the spinner and it ricochets off the side, then it goes right in and locks the ball. Exactly. Which is so cool. And then that horseshoe on the upper left-hand side of the play field, too, is really cool, where you can zip around or you can hit the stand-up target in the middle that I think lowers, right? Does it lower down or does it just stay up? I can't remember. No, I think it's stationary. Oh, okay. It's been a while since I – it's been a few years since I played that game. Yeah. We have that one up at Inclined to Play. We have a nine ball. Great game. I don't think I've ever actually put any time in on that game. I was kind of confused with the one by Gottlieb that I hate. Oh, okay. Whatever the yellow machine is. Rack them up. Oh, rack them up. Fuck that game. Ooh. That's always in tournaments, too. At least. I know, and it always kicks my ass. But I love the art. The wizard is cool. Isn't the wizard great? Yeah, Wizard is cool. Someday I'd like to spend some time on that. Because I think that one of the interesting things was the classic Sterns, there were always a couple that everybody was always interested in. But I don't think they really started giving respect until the last 8, 10 years. Yeah. Right. They always had their fans, but yeah. Yeah, there were those enlightened people who were like, dude, these games are cool. And it's just like, yeah, Meteor's kind of fun. But like, you know, why would I play, you know, this goofy looking game when I could go over here and play Xenon or something and now it's all like, oh man, you know, Stars is a cool game. Nine Ball's a cool game. You know, Dracula's terrible but oddly addicting. You know, and of course, you know, you have your Stargazers and you have your Sea Witches and you have your Quicksilvers and your Vipers some of those games are just crazy rare and expensive. Those are real hard to find. Oh, yeah. I didn't make very many of those. And the other thing, too, is just to make a correction, the name of the Stern game that was Kung Fu was Dragon Fist. Not Black Belt. Thank you. Black Belt is a ballet. Black Belt is a ballet. I knew that had to be right. Thank you. Yeah, not that great. I remember I played that in Pinburg. that wasn't that good of a game. It was like everybody was all into that game for like a minute. Then I think it was a mass figuring out that, oh, this game sucks. Yeah. Yeah. It really doesn't suck. No, pinball really sucks, but it just, you know. Yeah. It wears out its welcome. Those are some good picks. Wow. Those are some great picks. That was challenging to have different. Actually, it was challenging, but at the same time, it made it easier to pick the top four. because then I didn't have to go and go all Bally or go all Gottlieb or whatever but it's funny when you said that yeah just picking the top three it could have very easily just been the class of 81 right I think that you know the moral of the story is like you know if you you know if you're into pinball for you know modding your game or if you're into pinball because you like the display or if you're into pinball because you like the music you know that's cool. But if you check out some of these older games, you know, you're going to see where a lot of the, a lot of the gameplay of the modern games that you appreciate comes from. And, you know, sometimes, you know, it doesn't have to be more complicated to be fun. Sometimes going back to earlier games with, with, you know, a simpler layout and, you know, you have to kind of just observe what's happening on there. You don't have, you know, digitized voices screaming at you about what shots to make and whatnot, you know, it really is pinball in its purest form. Yep. So, yeah, you know, just make sure that, you know, if you have a chance to play some older games, just because it doesn't have a dot matrix display or an LCD or digitized sound or anything, it doesn't mean it's not fun. Yep. And there are a couple of honorable mentions real quick that I had on my list, and maybe you can just rattle them off. Harlem Girl Trotters is a great one. Yes. forgot about I mean I didn't mention that as my tops but that's a good one and then the other one that was really good that I wanted to say of course 8 Ball Deluxe which we mentioned which is a great game 8 Ball Deluxe is one that I'm really shocked that none of us named and Evil Knievel is a good one all good choices I'm going to add Medusa which is also part of the class that's another one of my favorites and ironically all those things that we're mentioning if you come to Reno we have a lot of those classics to play especially up in Incline I'm going to go back a couple years on that ballet list to Viking Viking is good yep yeah see you can do that with all the companies they all have some really really outstanding games of that era Well, if you think about it, you know, you're just coming into the hardcore era of the classic video games, you know, because you're just coming out of the black and white era of space, you know, space mares and asteroids, lunar lander to color, you know. Mm-hmm. Versus like real rudimentary color, like Missile Command. And then you get into stuff like Pac-Man, you know. Yep, Defender and Pac-Man. Defender, yeah. The beginning, the beginning. Robotron. That was the whole thing is and that's kind of weird, because if you look at it from a historic standpoint, like that was when, you know, pinball started to kind of be eclipsed. Right. Because operators love the fact that arcade machines cost less and made more and, you know, required much less maintenance. Right. And it was sort of the first end of the pinball lifestyle. Right. The end of the 70s was the dawn of video. Right, where you can still walk into a shady pool hall and you see kids well under the legal age smoking cigarettes and playing pinball and air hockey. If you want a great representation of that, go back and watch the original Bad News Bears, the scene where Tatum O'Neill goes into the local arcade. Right, but that was like 77, right? That was like 76, man. 76, right. So, you know, this is like three, four years later. Yeah. Yeah. You know, those pinball machines were getting more expensive and, you know, Pac-Man was out earning them 10 times. Oh yeah. Yeah. 10 or more. By the mid eighties, you know, by the mid eighties, almost everything, arcades in general had been pretty much destroyed. But, um, you know, pinball didn't recover really until, I don't know, late nineties or the late eighties. Right. You know, you started getting your houses. and your ride of pinbots, you know. I guess maybe the mid-'80s, right, after 85. You know, pinball was a big hit. High speed was a big hit. But, you know, the 90s, you know, there was a big resurgence, the D&D days. But, you know, yeah, you got to kind of play some of these games because it was from an era where, again, pinball was at the height of its power for the time, you know. You know, the early solid state, you know, still had kind of the genius of the EM, by the dawn of the electronics. Yeah, well, it was an interesting time for pinball. It was. It was. You know, having lived through it, I reminisce about it often. You know, Mark, you brought up Harlem Globetrotters. Here I am, a six-year-old, seven-year-old kid, eating Alphabets and honeycombs and watching the Harlem Globetrotters cartoon, and then just a few short years later, I'm 12, and I'm playing the pinball machine. I'd say with Evil Knievel, you know. Oh, yeah. I remember watching him attempt to jump the Snake River Canyon. And Dan and I were talking off air the other day about the old Evil Knievel toys and how that toys had a huge resurgence. And with the Internet, there's these guys that set up these super elaborate jumps. Yeah, exactly. I love that. I had that. I had the Evil Knievel cycle that you rev up. Yeah, exactly. That was one of my favorite toys. The New Kaboom Spent Cycle? yeah exactly man it actually worked too it was one of those toys that worked yeah and it was real robust so cool you couldn't have now because like you know you could aim it at your buddy the thing would get going about 600 miles an hour yep that and the gears would fall apart or it would just fly off the ramp and just disintegrate because that thing was robust i mean you could Yeah, you can crank that up, you know, like a 10-foot jump and it would be fine. Yeah, exactly. So, but, you know, and that's what I just want to remind people, especially the newer people to the hobby and to collecting and playing. Get out and find those games and play them and enjoy them too. You know, really, you know, broaden your horizons, man. Try an Evel Knievel. Try a Sea Witch or a Black Knight or what's a – a Joker Poker, a Pinball Pool. Nine Ball. Try a Nine Ball. God, that's a great game. Yeah. But don't get too attached to it because you'll make the price go up. I'm trying to find one cheap. There you go. There's actually an Electronimo. There's an Electronimo close by, and they want $1,200 for it, $1,250. It's got a little bit of playfulness around the saucer, and I've been just like, I'm just going to hold out, man. When it's on there like five or six months, if it's still there, I'll be like, well, you take $900, you know. Yep, and that was one of the stall ball games that we played at Golden State was Electronimo. Yeah, it's a good game. It's of that era, you know. So that was it, man. I think that's just about wrapping up our show. You guys got anything else you want to add? Nope. Looking forward to next episode, though, when we talk about Dungeons & Dragons. We're going to talk a lot. We're basically just like the whole episode is going to be Dungeons & Dragons, and I'll make sure and email over to Stern and go, okay, guys, listen to this. We're going to pump you guys up all night. Cool. So we do have shows coming up. We've already talked about Golden State because I was going to do a show thing. Hey, how come you have shows? Just Google, man. Just Google listeners. Well, Texas Pinball Festival. We can't forget that one. And then so is Midwest Gaming Classic coming up, like, what, in April? That's right. Yep, Midwest Gaming Classic in April. Yeah. In my hometown of Milwaukee. So check those shows out. You can Google them. Milwaukee. It's an Indian word. It means it's a good life. Yeah. Milwaukee is the only U.S. city to have three socialist mayors. Do these guys know how to party or what? We're not worthy. We're not worthy. Okay, I'm going to leave the show off with this before I shout out some thank yous. Okay, so the Dungeons & Dragons game has a gelatinous cube. If you remember in the Wayne's World movie, they're talking to, like, Noah, the Noah's Arcane guy. It's like, what's your top game right now? It's like, well, Xantar. Xantar's a gelatinous cube in East Village, right? Yeah, right? Yeah. So it's like, so this is going to blow your mind. When I was a kid playing Dungeons and Dragons, I'm like 14, 15. I had a half elf fighter I named Xantar. I don't know where I got that. I just pulled it out of my butt. You name your character. I'm like, and I'm brand new. I'm just learning this, you know. And I'm like, uh, Xantar is a half elf and he's a fighter. Okay, cool. Yeah, and I still remember because I had like a sheet of notebook paper where I wrote down all the stuff about it. And so when I get my game I'm going to name my gelatinous cube Xantar Yeah man Some people come over and go that's Xantar The gelatinous cube So that's it man Shout outs and thank yous Who would like to start We're going to Mark Mark you go Mark's do it So my shout outs are To you guys of course I can't ever forget about you. But you know what? I'm going to have a really interesting shout out. I'm going to shout out to my students because they are getting more and more interested in pinball. And I actually had an assignment where they had to identify the different forms of energy in a pinball machine. I actually had them watch the slow motion video, the JJP game, Willy Wonka with the slow motion guys. And they were just so into it. And it was really exciting to see them paying attention, taking notes and actually learning how a pinball machine works, learning everything that we learned about with energy, with electromagnetism, motion, light, sound, all that stuff. So thanks for being interested in my passion. And I actually have kids probably listen to this, of course. Well, some of the language is pretty mild. But anyway, yeah. So that's my shout out is to my students, my fourth grade students. That's a great shout out. Yeah. Well, I don't have anyone really new to shout out. You know, of course, you guys, you know, thanks a lot for, you know, giving me someone to talk on the Internet to about pinball to, you know, the cast and crew and players and CCPL, you know, who I play pinball with every single week. And to my lovely wife, Jamie, for accommodating all of this pinball. And, of course, to everybody who is feverishly working, even as we speak, on planning and executing the Golden State Pinball Festival. It is the event of the late spring, early summer for me, and I am excited. Nice. Yeah. No, that's it. My shout-outs are, of course, to you guys, man, who we get together with every month and we laugh and have a good time. And when things aren't going so great, I know I can always call you and you can call me and we can just walk through the muck and mire of life and get back on it. To my family, my wife and my kids who put up with my madness, not just this, but all of it. And give me a little breathing space to do this once a month and support this crazy hobby. and to all the listeners who tune in every month and go, what are these guys going to do this month? What craziness is he going to say? So thank you, guys. Thank you, listeners. Thank you, friends, family, and listeners, and fellow podcasters and content providers around the globe. So that's it. That's our show. You guys got anything else you want to add? Nope. Feeling good. Feeling good. All right. That's been Episode 72. as February of 2025. That sounds so weird to say, doesn't it? Yeah. So look forward to this episode. Enjoy it. And glad you came along for the ride. And look forward to our future episodes where we're going to talk in-depth about Dungeons & Dragons and the Golden State Pinball Festival. So I'm going to leave you all with that. Play pinball. Keep America Strong. Bye.