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DPP #110 "Major changes at Pinball Bros?! Texas wrap up!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·40m 38s·analyzed·Mar 20, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Texas Pinball Festival wrap-up with critical industry analysis, homebrew praise, and concerns about Pinball Brothers' future.

Summary

Don returns from Texas Pinball Festival and shares detailed observations on manufacturer booths, game quality, and industry trends. Key discussions include Barrels of Fun's strong Labyrinth performance, Spooky Pinball's sold-out releases, concerns about Pinball Brothers' direction following their marketing lead's departure, and critical analysis of Barry Osler's Queen design and American Pinball's Barry's Barbecue Challenge. Don also covers homebrew standouts (Friday the 13th, Saw), Stern's $2,000 Foo Fighters topper pricing strategy, and speculation about upcoming releases.

Key Claims

  • Texas Pinball Festival is fan-forward (60-40 fans vs industry) while Expo is industry-forward

    high confidence · Don's direct experience at both events, personal characterization

  • Foo Fighters toppers sold out in first day with approximately 15 units in Jeff's allotment at $2,000 each

    high confidence · Don spoke directly with Jeff at Mad Pinball about sales

  • Barrels of Fun sold all Labyrinths they had on the floor at Texas

    high confidence · Don's direct observation and time spent at their booth

  • Spooky's Looney Tunes pre-sold before the show started and both games will release in November timeframe

    high confidence · Don's observation at booth and pattern analysis with prior Scooby release

  • Rudy from Pinball Brothers announced departure via email just before ABBA release scheduled for April 6th

    high confidence · Don received email notification; this is a specific, verifiable event

  • Barrels captured licenses currently in development that may be revealed next year (80% of Labyrinths shipped)

    medium confidence · Don's conversation with Dave and Brian; speculation based on their behavior

  • Motorhead homebrew (New Zealand) generated significant interest and could see limited commercial run if demand continues

    medium confidence · Don's observation of crowd interest and speculation on industry response

  • Stern's topper pricing at $2,000 suggests strategy to move fewer units at higher margins rather than volume

    medium confidence · Don's business analysis and margin estimation; speculative reasoning

Notable Quotes

  • “Texas is a fan-forward festival. And Expo is industry-forward.”

    Don @ Early in episode — Core characterization distinguishing the two major industry events

  • “If I had a pinball company and this was my product, I would not feel bad about it at all. I think this is a game that would sell, generating a ton of enthusiasm.”

    Don @ Homebrew discussion — High praise for Saw homebrew as professional-quality production

  • “the only message that we are sending to Stern is that, yes, daddy, we will pay these prices, or somebody will.”

    Don @ Foo Fighters topper discussion — Commentary on market acceptance of premium pricing enabling continued escalation

  • “Queen is an awesome band. They deserve better than this layout, better than this tired Barry Osler layout.”

    Don @ Queen pinball criticism — Direct criticism of design quality and perceived IP disrespect

  • “it's insulting when they ask us for this amount of money and this is the quality they're delivering us”

    Don @ Pinball Brothers critique — Core frustration with pricing-to-quality mismatch

  • “I don't know that a barbecue restaurant is really the right place for pinball. When you're looking at $7,000, that will buy you a commercial smoker.”

    Don @ Barry's Barbecue Challenge discussion — Questions theme-venue fit and operator ROI viability

  • “This was really, like, who's good at music, who's good at art, who's good at engineering, who's good at wiring. and they all played a role”

    Don @ Saw homebrew discussion — Characterizes successful homebrew as team effort with specialized skills

  • “They need to drop a killer game. Alien did okay. Queen is just not good. And ABBA is just not a good theme.”

    Don @ Pinball Brothers critique — Direct assessment of company's recent and upcoming releases

Entities

Texas Pinball FestivaleventBarrels of FuncompanySpooky PinballcompanyPinball BrotherscompanyAmerican PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyLooney Tunesgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Brothers' marketing lead Rudy departed via email announcement just before ABBA release on April 6, suggesting internal instability

    high · Don received departure email; timing unusual given imminent product launch

  • ?

    event_signal: Saw homebrew expected at Expo October or Southern Fright Gaming Expo July; Glenn the Skateboarder confirmed as likely participant

    high · Don's direct communication with Glenn confirming intent to display; housing location confirmed as Nashville area

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Barry's Barbecue Challenge at $7,000 competes directly with Stern Pro lineup and Ninja Eclipse but lacks compelling mechanism innovation; Don questions operator ROI in barbecue restaurant setting vs commercial smoker alternative

    high · Don's cost-benefit analysis and pricing comparison with competing Stern Pro offerings

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Queen pinball design fundamentally flawed: speakers covered by acrylic (audio dampening on music pin), crotch-level speaker holes in acrylic (poor aesthetic/functional choice), weak flipper performance

    high · Don's direct engineering critique and play experience at multiple Queen machines

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Don advocates for continued retro-inspired games with modern mechanics (citing Motorhead, Pulp Fiction, Barbecue) as filling gap in market; suggests one-two per year is sweet spot

    medium · Explicit statement of preference for gameplay style and recommendation for manufacturer mix

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.122

0:00
Let's slide back into the saddle for Don's Pinball Podcast. We're up to number 110. We're home from Texas, and I want to just recap everything for you, let you know where we are at after Texas, the reveals that happened there, the gameplay, and what I think is going to happen in the near-term future. Let's lock it in, get loaded, fire the missiles.
0:30
Oh, man, crashing back at home. Got back home yesterday. What was that, Monday? It's Tuesday now during the week of our Lord, the end of March. We're going into Basketball March Madness. Stern March Madness continues to go on. It's almost time for spring break and Florida beaches. I can't wait. But I'm back. Everybody else is getting back, too. and I'm letting the dust settle from Texas, and I just kind of wanted to comment on all the mayhem and madness that happened. Somehow, I still managed to have a speaking voice. I don't know how that happened. I must have been screaming straight for three straight days I was there. It is so loud inside that convention hall, as gargantuan as it is. And, you know, this being the Texas event that it is, it's amazing how loud it is and everything in there. Somebody was asking me, Don, how does this compare with Expo? You know, I was there with some first-timers, first-timers to Expos in general, And what a way to start at Texas. And it is different at Expo. It is different. But at first, I couldn't really conceptualize that or put that into words. But I can now. Texas is a fan-forward festival. And Expo is industry-forward. And by that, I mean, you know, Texas, of course, the industry is there. Industry is represented. But, you know, Barrels of Fun is there. David Fix is running around in a barbecue apron. I mean, it's definitely an industry event. But it seems to be like 60-40 favoring fans. and that's kind of where it was started. So it is very much a festival that is happening locally in that convention center. That's like the nexus of everything is in there. Whereas with Expo, we have a large convention hall, but we also have multiple other side venues going on with other panels and things. You also have, it's taking place in Chicago, so it's easier for industry people to be there. So you'll see more of them because they don't have to travel as much. you'll be able to partake in the tours they do, you know, of, you know, Stern's factory and American pinball is doing one Jersey. Jack's going to do one this time too. Like everybody's there in Chicago. We're kind of going there and it's more the expo hall, the other exhibit halls, and then it's going around town and seeing the other events and things. Pinball Olympics is there. So as far as scope, it's right at the same level. Like it's, it's a do not miss event. But that I hope that explains like how the vibe is a little bit different. it's less like chaotic festival and more like okay industry show yeah you know let's meet and go over some things uh one thing that was common to both of them though is the homebrews and i think they are the really the unsung heroes of this show you know every company had their their top stuff out there you know this is the first time people got to play looney tunes and texas chainsaw massacre uh labyrinth was there for the folks in the south but uh the the hero of the show were these two Horror-themed machines, right? A homebrew is Friday the 13th, which was all original, and I think took home best of show. And then Saw, which won in this category as a re-theme of Whirlwind. Now, Saw was put together by a team of people with some excellent skills. You know, this wasn't one person's conception, you know, beginning to end, and then, you know, here it is. This was really, like, who's good at music, who's good at art, who's good at engineering, who's good at wiring. and they all played a role and came out with what could be a professional production game. I mean, I was simultaneously, and I told the folks this, I was simultaneously inspired and intimidated at the same time as far as ever going into the homebrew realm. I think I'm solidly heading in that direction, and I'm enthused, man, because I've seen what was possible. People have been reaching out wondering where they can play Saw next. I reached out to Glenn the Skateboarder, Glenn Wechner, who did the amazing music for that Saw pinball machine. And it's still a bit up in the air, but it sounds like it for sure, as for sure as anything can be, will be at Expo in Chicago in October. So if you want to find a place to play Saw, you want to put yourself on that Venn diagram and be in the right location at the right time, I think Expo is a good choice. He says because this game is housed in the Nashville, Tennessee region, So going to the Louisville show, probably not out of consideration. Also, Southern Fright Gaming Expo will be your next time to meet up with Don in Atlanta. That will be happening in July. That will probably be the next place you may be able to find it. But it sounds like if you were going to pick one spot you want to play this game, this beautifully designed, horror-inspired whirlwind, it looks like Expo may be your next choice to do that or next place to do that. So that's fantastic. This team is getting accolades from everybody. This game is a resume, man. I mean, if I had a pinball company and this was my product, I would not feel bad about it at all. I think this is a game that would sell, generating a ton of enthusiasm. And check out the topper, man. It's, like, screen accurate, man. The thing is pneumatically operated. The reverse bear trap jaw that rips your head in half, man. It fires as soon as your last ball drains. It's nuts, man. I did go on YouTube and livestream a bit of it, so that's on there. There's a reel. And then I think I was streaming on Facebook for a while, so go check that out however you can. But, yeah, Saw was definitely lit. Speaking of lit, lit frames. Reached out to Brad Hunter. He makes the lit light-up LED frames for Translites. If you came home with a show with a Translite, you need to have a place to display it. You could build your own box of lights, or you could pick one up from him. He's offering listeners a discount because he's a solid dude. He sent me a review copy eons ago, and I paid him for it and said, dude, this is amazing. Anyway, he gave a discount code of DON20, D-O-N-T-U-2-0. and he'll knock $20 off of that. I think it'll be $180 shipped to you. He does have a separate size for the new Spooky Translite dimensions too. So whether you have like an original Stern Translite you want to put up there or you came home with a Looney Tunes or TCM Translite, some friends are reaching out to me, Don, do you know anybody that sells frames of this size? I reached out to Brad and he says, yeah, man, I've got a Spooky size. It's right on the litframes.com website. And if you send anybody my way, give a discount code DON20. I'll save them $20 if you want to get one. I will say that these appear to be higher quality than the ones that Stern is selling on the official site. I've got one on my wall. Love it. So he's not sending me any products for this. Just putting it out there. If you want to save yourself $20, it's a great way to do it. Otherwise, build yourself your own box and throw some LED lights in it if you want. But this is plug and play. You can change the colors and things. It comes with remote control. It's awesome. Love it. If you want to get yourself a game, email Jeff at madpinball.com. Got to spend some time with my buddy Jeff from Mad Pinball. he's just going around having fun like anybody else was here but he's got games in stock if you want to get them if you want to get on a list for something coming up next like the rumors that we're going to get to I'm going to make myself a note so I can talk about those in a minute John Wick, ABBA Matrix man it's going to be, the rest of the year is going to be fire man, it is only heating up but email jeff at madpimple.com get your name on a list there and then if one of these pops off you've already got a spot in line I talked to Jeff because we just had these Foo Fighters toppers come out. I got to see one in person. Now, these toppers are $2,000, which is a lot of money by anyone's standards. So I asked him, hey, man, how are they selling? And he said all of his allotment, I think he had around 15 or so, they were gone that first day. So they are expensive. They are definitely cool, and they are definitely selling out. So the only message that we are sending to Stern is that, yes, daddy, we will pay these prices, or somebody will. Somebody will. Now, I will say I saw the topper. I got to play the game with the topper with the new call-outs from what I could hear. It was very loud in there. The new topper for Foo Fighters, very cool. I do like the product itself. I would be in on the product even without owning a Foo Fighters if it was like $7.99 because I might pick up a Foo Fighters down the road later and I would just want to have one. But at $2,000, even if I still had the game, I still honestly, I'm not sure how I would come down on it. It definitely is cool. I like it. I like the light show. I like the animated head that goes back and forth. I wouldn't call it fully animatronic, so I don't know where they're getting that criteria for. When I think fully animatronic, I'm not expecting, you know, Disney, Beauty and the Beast, like a Tokyo Disneyland with a fully articulated bell moving around with full facial features and everything. But I think at least two degrees of movement would be sufficient. This thing looks to be a plastic cap, which is painted beautifully. It looks like it came right out of a comic book. It looks like an illustration looking at it. I love the paint job that they did on this, or whether that's plastic or whatever they put on there. It's not just a decal. I mean, it looks good. It's got that comic look, but it really is a shell that turns left and right, and that's about it. Because of the, what do you call it, wings or whatever on the side of the FooBot's helmet up there, it really only turns about 30 degrees one side than the other. It's not like a full 180 or anything. No articulations with eyes or facial features at all. There is some cool lighting backing it up. There's cool lighting all over the topper, just like any other Stern topper. It looks like they took the art directly off the play field. It's licensured, already approved it. That's probably the easiest way to do it. But there you go, man. So, you know, it probably has, you know, $160 worth of material in it, if that is what I would hazard a guess. Plus the licensing cost for this, I'm sure, is associated in there. But this is a high profit margin item for Stern, for sure. Even once you deduct like the $300 or something that the dealer is getting it for, I think it's still a pretty high margin. I think if you look at the margins on what they get on a pro machine, it can't be more than $1,000 after you have to discount for the dealer. The dealer got to have some room in there The bill of materials is probably to So I imagine you probably have the same at least margins on a topper sale as you do on an actual Foo Fighters Pro machine right So, you know, I'm wondering why they don't just sell a ton of these things at $1,200.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
game
Labyrinthgame
Sawgame
Friday the 13thgame
Motorheadgame
Queengame
Barry's Barbecue Challengegame
ABBAgame
Foo Fightersgame
Glenn the Skateboarderperson
Jeffperson
Dave and Brianperson
David Fixperson
Barry Oslerperson
Rudyperson
Christopher Franchiperson
Expoevent
Southern Fright Gaming Expoevent
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Foo Fighters topper art taken directly from playfield, indicating simplest/fastest licensing path; licensing costs factored into $2,000 retail price

    medium · Don's observation that art is 'licensured, already approved it' and reused from playfield

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky Pinball's Looney Tunes and TCM pre-selling/selling out at Texas indicates strong demand and possible accelerated release timeline with October Expo announcement window

    high · Looney Tunes mostly pre-sold before show; pattern suggests November release and October Expo reveal

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Rudy departing Pinball Brothers indicates possible company distress or internal conflict timing with release schedule

    medium · Email announcement noted as surprising given April 6 ABBA release date

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's Foo Fighters topper at $2,000 price point with sold-out first day (15 units) suggests strategy of margin optimization over volume; potential for continued price escalation

    high · Mad Pinball owner Jeff reported all allotment sold day one; Don's margin analysis indicating $1,000+ profit per unit

  • ?

    announcement: Barrels of Fun actively developing new licensed games; Dave and Brian indicated excitement about captured licenses with potential 80% Labyrinth shipment to complete before next reveals, likely 2025

    medium · Don's conversation with leadership indicating active license capture and development; revealed Muppet Show and Goonies as aspirational themes they would pursue

  • ?

    product_concern: Queen pinball plays poorly with weak flippers, boring gameplay, and poor audio design (speakers covered by acrylic); Barry Osler layout criticized as tired and dated

    high · Don's direct play experience at Texas and comparison with other Queen machines on floor

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinball Brothers experiencing negative sentiment shift: Queen poorly received, ABBA theme not resonating, marketing lead departure, company future questioned despite attempting IP rescue strategy

    high · Don's explicit concern statement about company direction; Rudy departure timing; comparative weakness vs. homebrews and competitors

    • 10:23
    Maybe they've looked at it and they're like, you know, we could sell 500 of these at $1,200 or we could sell 250 at $2,000, make the same amount of money and have less build costs and keep demand high. Maybe that's what they're thinking. either way anybody with means or has this game bolted to the floor they've already bought one of these clearly because they're sold out i just didn't want to circle back that i was able to play foo fighters with the topper i think the topper is amazing i love it um i wish it did more i wish it had you know i wish it looked like a play set with action figures and everything i wish i had more animation like actual physically moving parts um but you know it is what it is but for two thousand dollars for me seems well overpriced and my opinion doesn't matter because they already sold out. So that's the story there. Are we going to see $2,400 toppers next? I think where this opens up an opportunity, and speaking partially to my friends at the Electric Playground, this is where having more budget-friendly options that are just as awesome available in the realm of toppers is a really good idea. You know, when toppers are $500, it doesn't really make sense to have an aftermarket one for $400 because you can get that official one with the one-to-one integration with the game, turning this into topper talk, with an official Stern topper. But at a topper price of $2,000, probably $2,000 plus with where we're heading by the time Jaws comes out next year,
    11:40
    I think coming in somewhere between $500 and $1,000 for a topper that has some cool aspects to it, I think there's some room there for some folks. So I'm going to continue making my own toppers because that's fun for me. I did get mentioned in actually the Kineticist email recently for this week in Pinball that I shared pictures of my Jaws topper. I love it. I love my Jaws topper. I'm adding more lights and more interactions to it.
    12:06
    And it's not a product that I've rolled out on Pinside or anything. But if you're interested in one, I think we can come to some terms. I think $500 is a great price point for a topper that's three-dimensionally printed. It's not just flats. It's got some interactivity with lighting. It looks cool. It's actually huge. and it's also on a base plate that custom matches the Stern mounting hardware so it mounts strictly into place. That's what I would expect. If I paid $500 for it, I'd be super happy. So that's why I picked that price. If there's a huge demand, you know, I mean, price would go up. For right now, introductory. If you're interested, go check it out.
    12:44
    Also, I'm coming back from Expo. I still have some of the T-shirts that I printed left available. I also have this awesome Fathom Revisited Backlast Sticker Decal. It's 5 1⁄2 inches by 6 inches, high quality, got it from the Nitro booth. I happen to have one of them that I came back with. And so the next person to buy a T-shirt, a Don's Pinball Podcast T-shirt, so screen-printed front and back graphics, I'll include this sticker for free. It's $30 shipped. All you have to do is email me at Don's Pinball Podcast and say, like, I want that shirt, I want that Fathom sticker, $30 to Venom or PayPal, and give me an address, and I'll send it right out to you. Extra large, double extra large, large, and I think I might have a medium kicking around. You small guys, you're out of luck. Those sold right out. But I've got a couple of T-shirts I came back with. Everybody else, if you're not interested in the Fathom sticker or you still want a T-shirt, I'll include one of the golden tickets that are left as well. I did this promotion at Expo. I got the idea from somebody. It was genius. I 3D printed basically a thick apron card that was actually a golden ticket from Mr. Dilly Donka over here, and I hid these around the show floor. We had about 12 of them, I think, that went out. They all came back, and you won a T-shirt if you happened to find one. So I was having fun with this. I went around and stuck these to the back boxes of some games, and I would leave a little bit of a corner kind of peeking around. So if you were playing and saw a little plastic corner, that was your clue that there was a golden ticket back there. Go ahead and grab it. The vendors were all in on it, so it was okay to go back there, reach, and grab it. I put one underneath saw, and it lasted for like a day and a half until somebody went down and was able to find it. Spooky Pinball put one in their claw machine. Somebody went through about $3 worth of quarters playing and finally got it. was super happy. This one lady, I forget her name. I think it was Dana or Dana. She kept coming by the booth asking how many tickets were still on the show floor. And then sure enough, she happened to find one of them. I think it was either under a game or stuck to the side of a Jersey Jack topper. But she was so happy when she came by and she got her ticket. She wanted it signed. She wanted to keep it. So that was permitted. She got her t-shirt, was super happy. Some younger kids came by. They found them too. It was way successful, man. People totally dug it. I was walking around of my costume and like people are asking for photos and things it was super fun it was just a fun festival atmosphere and completely succeeded all right i'm gonna get back into some pinball news here let's get back into the bonus barrels of fun was killing it man you know you saw their separate little area that they had off the show floor mainly off the main show floor for people that were super interested in purchasing labyrinth and want to play it in a quiet environment or to reward those folks that had already bought one they were showing up the game with the new code the new topper code, the new topper interactions, the light show up plays during multi-ball. Killing it, man. I think they sold all the labyrinths that they had on the floor. I've got to spend a lot of time with Dave and Brian this time. When I saw them at Expo, that was like the reveal of the game. You could tell tensions were high. They were really hoping it was going to go over well. This time, these guys are super relaxed, super chill. Spent a ton of time with them. Franchi was hanging out at the booth for a while. Everybody was just digging Labyrinth. They were buying the alternate back glasses and the other accessories that they had. It was just a great time. Even though they were tucked over there in the corner, they were doing awesome. And I couldn't get them drunk enough to find out what their next themes are, but they do have other games that are actively in development. So I think as we see maybe 80% of these labyrinths get built and shipped, we might be looking at a reveal. It might not be until next year. I'm not anticipating seeing something from them in October or anything, but they are actively you know they captured some licenses you could tell in their eyes when they're talking to you that they're excited about what's to come um you know and i rattled off a list of 10 themes that i would love to see in pinball like like i do and they said well you're going to get your wish so at least some of those i rattled off are actually machines that are in development and i don't know if they're from them or not but if somebody's got to be doing muppet show somebody's got to be doing goonies out there it's just it just has to happen it has to happen. And I think these guys have proven that they would be able to do that. So that would be completely awesome. Switching over to Spooky Pinball, their booth, I called it, their booth was mobbed the entire time of the Texas Pinball Festival. And these games were getting played hard too. You know, seeing the coils start to get a little weaker, a little weaker with the flippers. The Vux sometimes weren't making the balls orbit all the way around. They must have been screeching hot. They got played nonstop. So no less than, you know, one or two parties deep for each machine the entire time. Occasionally, some Scoobies would be available. There was a Total Nuclear Annihilation on the floor. There was a Halloween. Other than that, man, these things were saturated the entire time. These guys, Bug and Luke, looked like they were running ragged trying to cover all the deals and everything. All the Looney Tunes quickly sold out. They were actually mostly pre-sold by the time the show started on Friday. Then the last two finally went. There was nearly a fistfight for the butter cabinet for Looney Tunes, I heard, but that went to a happy home, so enjoy that. TCMs, they did bring a couple of them back with them but man, I'm telling you for me, don't discount that TCM theme, I get it if you got kids in the house, it might be a little bit too brutal for them, you know your kids better than I do but I will say for me personally, as like a fan of the cultural icon of Leatherface having still never seen the film I love me some TCM, it is an intense game and that layout just absolutely slaps, so don't discount it, go play it, but Looney Tunes I think will be the one to sell out first. I think eventually they will both sell out. But I will say that we don't have to wait for them to completely sell out to see what their next game is. So I'm thinking, let's see, Scooby-Doo was released in a December time frame. These two games were released more in a November. So I think we might be seeing them walk back the clock a little bit, which would put us right in October, which would put us right at Expo. And wouldn't that be awesome if by October Expo, Looney Tunes has sold out, TCM has nearly sold out, and we may see whatever's coming next from Spooky Pinball. I will say they had one other game that was drawing a lot of attention at their booth, and that was Motorhead, which is a New Zealand homebrew. But, man, this thing was playing like a brutal production machine, I'm telling you. There was a ton of interest generated in Motorhead. This is the classic rock and roll band, iconic, ace of spades, come on. Even if you don't know Motorhead, you would recognize that song. and culturally recognized Lemmy the lead singer. So this was a game that had that old-school brutality with, like, new-school mechanisms and flippers and gameplay. So I would love to get fisted in my own home from a motorhead. And, you know, I can't say anything for sure, but the way folks were talking, I think if we could generate enough interest for this game, we could see at least a limited run by somebody. And I would not be unhappy with that. Like, this was a music pin that was just plain, you know, brutal but fair. You know, when I first played it with those suicide flippers that were on the right, I was draining left and right. But then once I learned the nuance of, like, dead flipping against them, man, I was in it, man. I was getting fisted, hitting the orbits, hitting the magnets, the bash target in the back, rocking with the music. The sound system was incredible. Like, you know, I love what Pulp Fiction kind of kicked off, right? You know, we got Haggis doing Fathom and Centaur and things, these old school games, which are just recreations of what came before. but I like this idea of retro inspired games with better gameplay, modern gameplay, modern mechanics, modern coils. Uh, but that's still that same classic gameplay. Uh, we're seeing that for sure in pulp fiction. We seeing that to an extent in barbecue of all things Um but I would like to see that trend continue Not every game should be like this Not half the games should be like this But one or two a year of some retro gameplay that fast and frantic with new school modes and things I think that's a sweet spot to be in. And it would be nice to throw one of them in the lineup so it's not just wall-to-wall sterns, right? So, yeah, look at that. People were playing that late into the night. There were lines even. I got on it early on Thursday. I got to meet the creator and everything. super chill guy and I wish him all the best but this game man was just labor of love amazing hopefully somebody can pick it up for a little boutique run I would not be upset at that Pinball Brothers was not there but some of their games were actually some were queens than anything else there was a couple of aliens including one in the back by whoever those game room guys were that had like a ridiculously three foot tall acrylic topper on it and some like alien armor going up and down the sides it was nuts now Alien, okay game from Andrew Highway, I get it it's not my ultimate favorite but it's passable if I was able to trade for one and have it for a couple of months it'd be alright, Queen on the other hand was playing like absolute garbage and I think myself and my crew got on a bad version of it with weak flippers, barely making it up the ramps, just not a good look for it and the gameplay was pretty terrible and you know Like, who thought this out? Okay, who thought this out? This is a Barry Osler design. And, you know, dude's not impressing me a whole lot here, sorry to say.
    21:49
    You're looking at the back box, right? You've got this big acrylic of the band Queen. You've got the speaker holes cut out right over the crotches of the two, you know, Brian May and then the drummer. Like, what's going on here? You can stick your finger right into what would be their zipper fly. It's just very strange. Also, this is a music pin, and you've got the speakers in there, and then you've got this acrylic right over them. Why would you cover up the speakers on a musical pin? Open that up. You know, they took the acrylics and drilled holes in it, but, like, audio needs to breathe, man. You know, even putting, you know, speaker grills like we do over the speakers, even putting that little mesh foam over there, that's all deadening the sound to some extent. You know, let these things freaking breathe. Open them up. There's a reason why on the LE Sterns they don't put that little fabric covering, that foam, spongy foam, over the speakers because you've put bigger Kenwood speakers in there. You want clear delivery.
    22:45
    So yeah, I would do that. Unless you really need to put something there just to keep people's fingers out of the speakers, open them up. Don't put them behind acrylic. That's weird, man. Some kid's going to stick a crayon in those things, puncture the speaker, and it sounds going to be even worse. I'm going to rag on this game for a while because it upsets me because Queen is an awesome band. They deserve better than this layout, better than this tired Barry Osler layout. Maybe it's been kicking around for a decade. I don't know. It plays old, but not in a good way. The flippers were weak. That may be because of how the game was set up. I don't think it's because it was getting played a ton. I played one of the other queens on the floor, and those flippers were working better, but the gameplay was still just so boring, and this queen really deserved better. I'm hoping, you know, I don't want a company to fail. I want companies to do well, but I don't want, at the same time, it's insulting when they ask us for this amount of money and this is the quality they're delivering us so i want to get that message back to them got an email the other day from rudy their social media marketing guy uh just announcing he was leaving the company which was amazing to me because they are on the eve of another release they're supposed to release this abba helicopter game uh april 6th and their marketing guy who runs all their social medias and everything just gave out a very nicely worded email but his jump ship and this is a guy that would know and so So I don't know if I'm super enthusiastic about where this company is going in the future.
    24:10
    They need to drop a killer game. I get that they kind of rescued these old plans that were already designed by other people. They brought them out. Alien did okay. Queen is just not good.
    24:22
    And ABBA is just not a good theme. It's not a good theme. I don't want to bring it into my house, even if it's shooting like Elton John, man. And chances are it's not going to. We still don't know who's making this thing. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I want to see what they have to come out with, but I'm super worried about where Pinball Brothers is.
    24:41
    What else should we talk about here? I was getting fired up, man. I was getting fired up. Speaking of fired up, let's fire up the barbecue. So I have some thoughts. All right. Graciously, I was invited by David Fix and crew down to the factory pre-release to go play some barbecue.
    24:55
    I had fun playing the game. I had fun playing the game at the Texas Pinball Festival. But, you know, I wasn't queuing up to play it over and over again. I played a couple four-person games so people could get a chance on it. But we were all left a little less than overwhelmed. We were a bit underdone. We didn't have that good char on the outside. I like the innovative little bash locks that they have on the game. But the game just needs more. And so here's where I'm at with it. They're not asking for $4,500 from us for this game. They're asking for $7,000. They're going head-to-head with not only Ninja Eclipse, but every Stern Pro that's available. And I have to question, who is this game for? I don't know that a barbecue restaurant is really the right place for pinball. When you're looking at $7,000, that will buy you a commercial smoker. You could redo your entire kitchen setup at a barbecue place, let alone trying to earn back that $7,000, plus start to turn a profit on a pinball machine that's going to gobble quarters in a place where most of the food has been cooked hours before and is ready to go. So I don't know. We'll have to see. The market will tell us where it goes on this machine. The machine plays okay. I like the ramps. I like the game plays relatively fun. It almost has somewhat like that old school charm as well. But for me, it plays like a modern game that's still missing something. And so here's what I mean for an example. For an example. Just another mechanism, right? What if there was a diverter on either one of the orbits or one of the ramps, and then when you activated it, the balls could roll over into a vuck, kick up into a smoker, a smoker that could be sitting up on the left plastics, let's say, above that bash lock on the left side. A smoker that's essentially a cylinder, you know, black, looking like an old smoker, with a drop target grill right at the end there, and really functions as a tube that you could throw three balls into. They would stage there, and then the drop target could drop, and then that would release for the Smoker's Exploding Meat Explosion Multiball. You know, meat, sweat, multiballs ready, you know, or something. You know, lock balls in the Smoker. That seems like an inexpensive mechanism that would add just like some other dimension to the game. You know, right now you can lock balls into the left and right saucers, put a ball up in the back corner, and then go into a multiball. I'm sure there'll be some more as the code develops, but really it's lacking like any kind of like thing to do. You know, when you play the game, you know, you hit the shots and you're like, okay, well, I think I've kind of done everything there is to do in this game. You know, looking at Jaws Premium right now, that upper play field is sitting there and I want to get up there. When the shark pops out, like I want to bash the shark. I want to hit the chum bucket. I want to put the balls up into Quint's little tavern lodge back there and have it wrap around on the wire form. Like I want to do all the things, right? And barbecue just doesn't have much things. It's got some targets. It's got some ramps. It's got those inline targets, and it's got the bash locks. And then I hope you're happy with that because that's all you're getting. It's cool if they have the screen in the play field, but I want to see a bit more, especially when for $7,000 or less, if you were a location, there's a ton of other options to go with that would save you money and probably earn you more. Just as a cursory glance, I went on to Pinside and looked at a spattering of Stern Pros because that's right what this price point is directly angered towards. And I want to see what you could do with that same amount of money. So Bond right now, mature code, game that people really like. You're not really losing much pro versus premium on that specific George Gomez design game. You could pick one up for $5,800 right now, a full thousand bucks less than what barbecue would set you back. And then you could put Bond in your barbecue restaurant. If you just want people to play a pinball machine, you'd be quicker to get your money back on there. It comes with Stern Insider Connected, which is a huge plus. And so I think when you're going head-to-head with a Stern Pro, you have to have a game that's even better than that in order to compete. You know, Barbecue looks like Barbecue Pro. Like there's some mechanisms that have been removed at it to scale it down to a more commercial level. And like the Barbecue Premium would come with the smoker lock, you know, would come with the fully dimensional sculpts or even 3D prints. than flat plastics. Maybe it would come with the,
    29:15
    I'm trying to think of like a Currywurst shooter rod or something, you know? Some Hillshire Farms thing, smoked sausage or something, or a brisket shooter rod, like something there. And like a better, more cohesive art package. But, you know, that's not there. So, you know, Bond Pro, $5,800. What else we got? Star Wars right now. Star Wars Pro, biggest license in the known universe. $5,500 on Pinside right now. You can pick one up. Foo Fighters is going for around $6,000 and that has mature code now that 1.0 is out Venom Pro $5,200 and a recognizable theme Insider Connected Progressive Gameplay Save Your Score and Continue even though the Pro has almost nothing in it you can still save some money and get yourself a known license you can pick up a Bond Premium for $7,300 something like that so for $1,000 more you get a Premium game Jaws right now. There's one for $6,500. That's $500 less than MSRP on Jaws, and that code is as deep as the Atlantic Ocean. I just played through the bounties on that game. Even though the pro is stripped back it doesn have that upper play field it got all the same gameplay callouts assets and everything including the bounty hunting which is like a game within a game I wasn bounty hunting for sausages and so my hope is that Barbecue Code continues to improve. But I'm just not sure who this game quite is for.
    30:43
    One more, one more, one more. How about Mandalorian, $5,200, another Star Wars theme? You could drop that in right now, recognizable theme, go play with Grogu. If these games were side by side, I think nine out of ten people would all go to the license first. And this isn't a secret. We've been asking American Pinball to grab some licenses because they've got good play fields. They've got good light integrated packages. They've got a good sound system. They've got Christopher Franchi's phone number. All the pieces are there except for a compelling license, even though that is dead money initially when you pay for the license, but isn't coming up with all of the already kind of compelling graphics and assets and music and call outs and voiceovers. That's also money that has to be spent if you don't get a license. So, you know, maybe it's my naivete because I don't run a company, but I'm just like, who's this game for? Who's this game for? Excuse me. Can't wait to see how this plays out. Numbers will tell us, you know, I called the Foo Fighters topper underwhelming for $2,000, and they sold right out. So we'll see. We'll see what the market has to show on that, but I can't wait to check it out. We will be able to play some more barbecue at some upcoming shows. What else do we want to talk about? Centaur. I've got some thoughts on this. That's going to be on the Dawn After Dark show on the Patreon episode. Do follow this one. But I will say that Centaur played okay. It played like Centaur.
    32:05
    Colorizing Centaur, I don't know, kind of a Ted Turner move to make. Charging $17,000 for a Centaur, especially even with a leather jacket and a helmet. I don't know, man. This is a game that also is available. I'm going to pause and take a moment and take a look up and see what you can get a Centaur for right now. All right, Centaur, Bally Williams, 1981. There's two available right now. One of them is in Prairie Village, Kansas for $6,000. The other one is in West Chicago, Illinois at Great American Pinball for $61.95 or best offer. To go ahead and get yourself one of these games. So paying over double just to get a brand-new produced, updated code, a couple of screens in the apron, if you're into that, I don't know, it just seems super weird to me. I've got more comments. Those will be on the other show to follow this one. But grime me, man. I will say the game was pretty. The game also had that cool fire effect underneath. I'm a sucker for that. I looked under the hood, and essentially there's a piece of acrylic that was CNC'd, routed, and put into the bottom wood of the cabinet. And it looked like it was one of those $15 little projectors that you would get for Spencer gifts at the mall, stuck underneath there. I kind of think that's probably what we're dealing with. And to be fair, that's probably what we're dealing with in the Elton John topper as well. So, you know, what's to keep me from getting one of those and sticking them underneath the game? Absolutely nothing except $15 and some double-stick tape. So there you go. Game looked great. game is wildly overpriced and i i think we're okay because it's probably the only one that's ever going to be produced but thanks for being bringing it to the show i got to play it i got to see the orb living edition in person i was trying hard to be able to see if they had a topper i could unbox but you know after initially uh you know being hopeful uh finally they said no in fact i don't think we have a topper for this dang it that would have been fun just because of such a rare machine um that that is multimorphic i did get to play uh the Princess Bride. And my thoughts haven't really changed after playing it several times. It's multi-morphic. It's not for me. It plays weird. I hate the flippers are on different buttons. I know that you can put them all on the same button, but what I'm hearing from people that have owned it, it's either been okay or it's melted some boards and coils. So I don't know. I can just tell you that the manufacturer had it set up this way and every one I've played has been set up the same way. So that's how I'm judging it. And I think it's one third of an okay game. I don't get the utilization of that whole screen down there. The resolution's not the greatest. It's got acrylic over it with balls running on it, so it's like looking through some frosted glass at times. I don't know that it added any compelling gameplay whatsoever to the Princess Bride, other than displaying the same graphics that were playing on the LCD screen above. I get that there was some little areas that were lit up with arrows pointing to the different spots to shoot when it was ready, and there's some cascading hearts and things, But it just seems like a gimmick and not integral to the gameplay at all. Plus, at the expense of putting a screen to the bottom two-thirds of the game, you have to then cantilever these flippers and slings with these other metal or plastic rods that are coming out on the gameplay field. It's just really weird. And you have to make the in-lane see-through so they don't block into the graphics. It's just strange. And I don't think that the tradeoff is worth it. I think for the price, there's much more fun things to spend your money on than one of these things. I think I'll kind of stick with my take that I had before. I think a multi-morphic owner can probably tell you about 10 reasons why they're happy that they have it, and people that don't own it can come up with 10 reasons equally compelling about why they don't. If you like it, yeah, go ahead and enjoy it. That's no problem.
    35:48
    If I already had one of these machines in my downstairs, I probably for sure would buy the standard version of this because the game was fun playing it, And I love the theme so much, so much. But there's just better options out there. I really wish, I really wish that they had this in a traditional cabinet that I could go play. But alas, here it is. More thoughts to come up on the follow-up show. Turner Pinball. I get to hang out with my buddy Chris Turner. Man, he did the right thing and put this game in a standard cabinet, brought the price down where it should be, and people were having fun with some Ninja Eclipse. Now, he wants to sell the preliminary version of 100 units. And I think that is probably an achievable goal now. At nearly $10,000, I don't know that that would have been possible, especially with a cabinet that just reminded people of the cheaper, really consumer-grade pinball, not commercial-grade pinball that Costco was selling about a decade ago, you know, the Zizzle machines. So I'm glad it looks like a real cabinet. The back box has a back panel. It's got a top on there that can hold a topper. It's got a coin door. There's a bottom in place. I was all over this machine, top to bottom, checking it out because I wanted to report, like, yes, they actually have put it in a real cabinet. They powder-coated the armor. It's got a coin door with barrels of fun. I'm talking to you. Two coin slots in that door, so kudos to them. So they also have a shooter rod, which I love so much. I don't like the shooter buttons. I want the shooter rods. I felt connected to the game. Played it about half a dozen times. It played well. I had fun with the modes. I did okay. And so, yeah, it's a much better machine than what they brought to Expo. So I could see them selling 100 of these. You know, definitely easier than I could see selling 100 Punny Factories because there's more compelling gameplay in this game than in something like Punny Factory. There's more things mechanistically going on, which is what I enjoy. The ball paths were fun. The ninjas jump and scoop to scoop and then up to the upper flipper was fun every time. There were a couple of things that were altered or removed on this version than what we played at Expo. The ball locking mechanism on the right ramp is now virtual. There's not a physical ball lock back there anymore. And some of the 3D printed sculpts have reverted to flat plastics, which means they can just as easily be re-sculpted, printed, painted, and available in the secondary market to put back in there. I saw a lot of opportunities for that. The gameplay is fun. I didn't play it enough to really wrap my head around all the modes, but I think this game has a solid chance of being around for a while and actually would be much easier to put into a commercial location and at least would generate more interest than I think a barbecue would and definitely more than a punny factory. So there you go. Great job, Chris. He was a friend of the show. He was on one of the last episodes I uploaded from TPF, came to talk to us with nice soothing dulcet tones for a while and kind of explaining everything to us. But, again, right at that Stern Pro level, I think this is much more of a comparison head-to-head versus what you would get from something like a barbecue. you and you know david fix also front of the show super cool guy uh you know i love his enthusiasm and pinball he's the one that's making these decisions and i'm maybe he knows more than i do about you know getting these things sold and you know maybe the game is going to be hitting their marketing targets um but it's not the theme that i would have put together for this and i would have included a bit more um and still try to keep that bomb kind of relatively still where it needs to be uh what else i think that covers kind of everybody there i have some more thoughts i want to get into for the Patreon members at the $5 level. If you want a t-shirt, they're awesome, man. People were digging them. I got silk screen shirts, no heat transfer, $30, mail to your door.
    39:30
    Canada, throw in an extra $5 or something. And the next person to order one at Don's Pinball Podcast at gmail.com gets this Fathom sticker. It looks awesome. It's the whole back glass. It's got a sheen to it. I mean, this would be a $10 sticker, I would think. I came back and managed to come back with one of them, and so I will get that out included to you as well as a golden ticket. But otherwise, anybody ordering this week, I'll include a golden ticket as well. So you can go ahead and have one and pretend you were there. And if you were there and didn't get to find one, you're still going to have one. So how about that?
    39:59
    Gameplay-wise, I'm having a lot of fun with Jaws, man. This code is great already. I really, really like this game. I can't wait to trick the heck out of it. All right, is there anything else I need to talk about? I think that's about it for this episode.
    40:13
    As always, more will come later in the week. I never slow down, never seem to stop. but neither does the pinball news, and I'll keep bringing it to you. Don's Pinball Podcast, gmail.com, way to get at me. Don's Pinball Podcast on YouTube, patreon.com, donspinballpodcast. Go ahead and join and get in on the bonus episode I'm about to record where I'm going to dish out a little more personal stuff and personal takes and everything. Be good to everybody. Later.