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AtGames Taito Pinball Reaction

BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·55m 58s·held·Jun 26, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

AtGames reveals Taito Pinball tables by Magic Pixel; hosts analyze layouts and critique flat visuals vs licensing pricing.

Summary

BlahCade hosts discuss Arcuda's Twitter campaign alleging IP theft and copyright infringement by Asian competitors, then pivot to analyzing AtGames' newly announced Taito Pinball pack featuring four games (Darius, Frontline, Rastan Saga, Space Invaders) developed by Magic Pixel. The hosts examine playfield layouts, art style, and critique the relatively flat visual presentation compared to Farsight's improved Genie rendering. Pricing is set at $25 per pack (4 tables) launching July 4th, with three packs totaling 12 games planned.

Key Claims

  • Farsight is no longer producing digital pinball tables; they are officially out of the pinball business

    high confidence · Chris states directly: 'Farsight is no longer a producer of digital pinball tables. No. It is, however, Magic Pixel. Magic Pixels are doing the dare.'

  • Magic Pixel has secured the rights to develop Taito pinball tables for AtGames

    high confidence · Chris confirms Magic Pixel is developing the tables and Jared recognizes the art style as characteristic of Magic Pixel

  • The Taito Pinball pack pricing is $25 for four tables ($6 per table), launching July 4th

    high confidence · Chris states: 'the answer is $25... it's six bucks a table... it's coming out July 4th'

  • Three total packs are planned with 12 games across all three packs

    high confidence · Chris mentions 'There's going to be three packs in total' and the hosts confirm pack 2 in fall and pack 3 in late November with specific game titles listed

  • Space Invaders table uses a DMD display but only shows scores or fireworks animations, similar to D. Gottlieb & Co. limitations

    high confidence · Chris states: 'it's being treated like a DMD game... it's Zachariah's DMD where it's either scores or some fireworks, and that's the extent of DMD animations'

  • Arcuda alleges Asian companies are copying their fishing game design and selling at discounted prices while failing to deliver

    medium confidence · The hosts discuss Arcuda's Twitter campaign showing copied logos and products, with one example advertised at $1600 vs actual price of ~$4000, with unfulfilled orders damaging brand perception

  • AtGames Taito tables feature EM-style playfields with relatively flat visual presentation compared to modern rendering standards

    high confidence · Jared observes the tables 'feel very flat' and Chris compares the Frontline upper playfield to Farsight's early Genie rendering, which lacked shading and contrast

Notable Quotes

  • “Farsight is no longer a producer of digital pinball tables.”

    Chris Friebus @ N/A — Confirms major shift in digital pinball landscape—Farsight has exited the pinball business entirely, marking end of their Pinball Arcade era.

  • “There's no shadow, there's no contrast, there's no depth. It's just this completely flat look.”

    Chris Friebus @ N/A — Critical design observation about Magic Pixel's current rendering approach; identifies specific visual shortcomings in the new Taito tables.

  • “If only there was another company that did licensing and put out table packs. Oh, gee, that would be so interesting to compare prices on.”

    Jared Morgan @ N/A — Sarcastic comment about Zen Pinball as competitive alternative; hints at pricing concerns around $6 per table for EM games with licensing.

  • “They never got their product out to market, right? But if you don't got a product out there, it doesn't matter. Yeah, you've got nothing to protect.”

    Chris Friebus @ N/A — Discussion of Arcuda's IP position relative to AtGames; suggests failed product launch weakens legal/IP standing against competitors.

  • “That upper playfield right here, that's full-on Genie.”

    Jared Morgan @ N/A — Identifies design similarity between Frontline and Farsight's Genie machine, comparing layout mechanics.

  • “This is lessons that I would like Magic Pixel to apply, which is darken some things up so that your lights pop a little more.”

    Chris Friebus @ N/A — Constructive feedback to Magic Pixel on visual rendering improvements needed for depth and visual appeal.

  • “They're definitely building to something... We'll just have to go along for the ride and work out what's going on with Arcuda.”

    Chris Friebus @ N/A — Hosts speculate that Arcuda's Twitter campaign is laying groundwork for potential legal action or major announcement.

Entities

Chris FriebuspersonJared MorganpersonAtGamescompanyMagic PixelcompanyFarsight StudioscompanyArcudacompanyZen PinballcompanyBlahCade Pinball PodcastorganizationDariusgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: AtGames officially announces Taito Pinball pack with four tables (Darius, Frontline, Rastan Saga, Space Invaders) by Magic Pixel, pricing $25 per four-table pack, launching July 4th. Three total packs planned with 12 games across all releases.

    high · Chris states: 'AtGames announced, finally, the Tato pinball that was teased a while ago... $25 for this pack comes out July 4th. There's going to be three packs in total.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Farsight Studios has exited the digital pinball business entirely. No longer producing tables for Pinball Arcade or any other platform. Magic Pixel is the new vendor for AtGames Taito tables.

    high · Chris confirms: 'Farsight is no longer a producer of digital pinball tables. No. It is, however, Magic Pixel. Magic Pixels are doing the dare... we can officially close the door on Farsight and Pinball. Yep, that's it. It's there, done. Bye-bye, RIP.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Magic Pixel's Taito tables feature EM-era and early solid-state inspired layouts with classic design elements (horseshoes, drop targets, pop bumpers, upper flippers). Darius uses authentic EM-style with three-roller top and single saucer. Frontline mimics Genie upper playfield mechanics. Rastan and Space Invaders blend EM scoring with modern ramp mechanics.

    high · Jared describes Darius: 'That's a very classic 80s layout... Lots of very, very bright colors, which fits in with the 80s vibe... No drops. Now, I am not showing you the back glass. It has reels. So this is an EM.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Magic Pixel's Taito tables display flat visual presentation lacking shading, contrast, and depth. Hosts note similarity to Farsight's early Genie rendering before improvements. Space Invaders DMD limited to scores/fireworks animations, not dynamic gameplay display. Frontline upper playfield lacks dimensional detail.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.168

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world it's jared morgan g'day folks how you going i don't know if it's uh this weekend for you jared because i know that Do you people down under sometimes get the holidays all wacky, but it's happy Father's Day out there here in the stateside. Yeah, not Father's Day here. I think Father's Day was earlier in the year for us, or it's later in the year. I think Mother's Day was earlier. I think Father's Day is September here. Yeah, that's right. So I think your Mother's Day lines up with ours, but the Father's Day is at the end of summer.
0:55
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Or end of our summer, so beginning of your spring. I don't know. wackiness with hemispheres. Dates are hard. Dates are hard, mate. I was trying to line up a meeting time for someone else at work and they were over in, I think, the central in the US. And they were going, oh, so do any of these times work? And they were all in central time.
1:23
And I went, I have no idea. Let's go to a world time clock and plug in those times and then compare the different date ranges and stuff. And then I went, okay, I think these dates, and I put a little box around them, I think these dates and times will actually sort of line up. And it's like, oh, man. It's just so... What a nightmare. Yep. All too difficult.
1:49
Hey, folks, look what I'm wearing. I got my Star Wars... I was about to compliment you on your shirt. That I got from Zen for winning the first contest that they had run, which was the comment contest. And, yes, I did get slippers. They don't fit my feet, though. My heel goes right to the edge. So these are now going to become my wife's slippers if she wants them. But they're, I mean, these are like the total disposable hotel. They're the hotel ones, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I've seen those before. That's about the end of the life cycle on them. they'll just be they'll be displayed somewhere in my house because obviously as you see i don't have a star wars t-shirt and i did happen to win the competition last time on uh uh for all the awesome pinball junk that i've got lying around my house so um i'm sure that that is speeding its way uh down to the on the slow plane from the u.s it's rather sad in one respect i feel like we should be disqualified from these contests because of our connection with Zen. But then on the other hand,
Frontline
game
Rastan Sagagame
Space Invadersgame
Operation Wolfgame
Arkanoidgame
Bubble Bobblegame
Rainbow Islandsgame
Geniegame
Pinball Arcadeproduct
Legends Pinballproduct
Firepowergame
Homing Game Entertainmentcompany
Highway Gamescompany
Involucadeproduct

high · Chris critiques: 'There's no shadow, there's no contrast, there's no depth. It's just this completely flat look.' He notes improvements made to later Genie version with darkened sections and highlight details needed on flippers and pop bumpers.

  • $

    market_signal: AtGames Taito Pinball pack priced at $25 for four tables ($6 per table). Hosts view as steep for EM games, comparing unfavorably to Zen Pinball's licensing pricing models. Describes as 'Magic Pixel price plus games premium.'

    high · Chris states: 'the answer is $25... it's six bucks a table for ems a little steep... that's basically the magic pixel price plus the games premium... if only there was another company that did licensing and put out table packs.' (Reference to Zen Pinball)

  • ?

    industry_signal: Arcuda conducting Twitter campaign alleging systematic IP theft and copyright infringement by Asian gaming companies. Claims include logo copying, game design replication, and predatory pricing strategies (advertising at ~$1600 vs actual $4000 cost) to generate bad customer experience and damage brand reputation.

    medium · Chris describes Arcuda's social media campaign: 'Arcuda obviously they keep on getting copied... Homing Game Entertainment, just basically... swiping... these asian companies have gone out straight up copied it... like down to everything and selling it at bargain basement products'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Hosts speculate Arcuda's Twitter campaign is laying legal groundwork for potential IP infringement case against AtGames, citing design similarities between Involucade (Arcuda's unreleased product) and AtGames Taito tables (replaceable game panels, connectivity features). However, acknowledge Arcuda's product never reached market, weakening legal position.

    medium · Chris speculates: 'I'm wondering if they're building themselves a case... they were talking about replaceable game panel... What does AtGames come up with?... I'm very curious to know where this is going and if they're going to even have a leg to stand on when push comes to shove.'

  • ?

    code_update: Space Invaders Taito table implements DMD display but restricts animations to scores and fireworks effects only, mimicking Gottlieb-era DMD limitations. Facebook community reception is negative ('slack') regarding limited DMD functionality.

    high · Chris notes: 'it's being treated like a DMD game... it's Zachariah's DMD where it's either scores or some fireworks, and that's the extent of DMD animations. That's a shame. That has not gone well over on the Facebook page for that game.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Hosts analyze Taito table shot design: Space Invaders features interesting flipper gate positioning but 'weird no-rollover target-y area' that doesn't translate logically to gameplay. Frontline features difficult mid-upper flipper shot requiring precise timing. Rastan Saga includes tight shots that may be undershootable from certain flipper positions.

    medium · Jared questions Space Invaders design: 'There's no rollovers. No, there aren't. What does that do?... That is weird... That is going to have to translate into some sort of gameplay element, because that doesn't make sense just looking at it.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Magic Pixel takes non-literal approach to Taito arcade game adaptations. Space Invaders avoids expected matrix grid target bank design (like Pinbot). Instead features ramps and character animations. Hosts note theme licensing does not constrain designers to video game mechanics.

    high · Chris observes: 'My initial thought for Space Invaders... I expected a whole bank of insert lights up here... that you would have to... knock out the invaders. That's what I had thought this would be. And that's not the case at all. So I find that really kind of interesting that they went a completely different route, once again ignoring the video game.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: AtGames Taito Pinball structured as three phased releases: Pack 1 (July 4) = Darius, Frontline, Rastan Saga, Space Invaders; Pack 2 (Fall/Owner's Day) = Operation Wolf, Zookeeper, Chuck'n Pop, Elevator Action; Pack 3 (Late November/Thanksgiving) = Legend of Cage, Rainbow Islands, Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid. Total 12 games across three $25 packs.

    high · Chris outlines: 'There's going to be three packs in total... $25 for that pack... and after that we have thanksgiving here so late november... the legend of cage rainbow islands bubble bobble and arcanoid'

  • ?

    content_signal: BlahCade provides detailed playfield layout analysis and visual design critique of newly announced Taito Pinball tables, comparing to historical references (Genie, Firepower, Pinbot) and identifying design strengths/weaknesses. Episode functions as community education on digital table design principles.

    high · Chris and Jared systematically examine each table's playfield layout, discussing ramp paths, flipper positions, drop targets, and visual rendering, with comparisons to established digital pinball standards.

    • 2:57
    folks, there's not that many people entering. No. I can say, because I was following the FlipperFam hashtag on Twitter for the cool pinball swag stuff. I think it was like me and two other people who submitted entries for it. So chances of me winning were pretty high. There was a time where we ran a contest and we had one entry. Yeah, so they won. They won. They really won. They were the best of the best. Yes.
    3:28
    So I don't know, folks, if you... It's getting interesting. If you follow Arcuda on Twitter, they've been, like the Chikada, they have been rising from the dirt and coming up with a myriad of tweets. And I'm not sure where exactly they're going with this, but I think we need to take a look at some things that are popping up on their Twitter feed. What say you, Jerry? I would love to do this because I've been seeing their Twitter bursts, and I don't understand what they're trying to achieve. I don't know, but there's some smack talking going on, basically, and I love it.
    4:10
    There's lots of, I know there's lots of copyright infringement talk. Well, that's what this is mostly going to be about. So check this out, folks. I'm going to bring up their Twitter feed here. And a lot of it is talking about how they keep on getting copied.
    4:27
    And a prime example of this is, obviously, over here we have the Arcuda logo. And then they're also part of Highway Games. That's their sister company. And then what they're pointing out is, look at this company, Homing Game Entertainment, just basically... Super legit, you're right. Totally just swiping. but the thing is and this is a problem right they don't have any brand recognition anywhere else apart from australia and to be honest the brand recognition here in australia is low as well so this is why these companies can just go hey let's just yeah let's just do a that's where this stuff kind of starts and then it goes into and i had no idea about this thing i've never seen this kind of thing no this is a big it's this giant where is a where's a good image is this giant fishing game i i mean probably what eight players around this table or whatever and they're talking about how basically the these they've gone and copied it these asia i don't know where in asia but these asian companies have gone out straight up copied it um like down to everything and selling it at bargain basement products well here's what they're doing though it's it's bargain basement prices that then they can't actually deliver upon and so basically what they do is they're throwing a distrust a baited line right but it winds up it winds up everybody looks at oh well hey let's go for this cheaper thing and then when they try and order it it can't be delivered but by that point the damage has already been done and the company doesn't want to then deal with arcuda so they're actually They're doing like, Arkuda used a term for that. It was like a, not like a machine,
    6:20
    not like a bait and switch, but it was almost like a, they basically, by doing this, they're cheapening the Arkuda brand by not being able to fulfill and giving people a bad experience. So the Arkuda, even though it's not Arkuda in the logo and everything, the association between that logo, which is quite distinct, like that logo there with the the ring around it right everything that looks quite distinct so therefore people see this have a bad experience and go oh you know i don't like this company so this is what they're saying this is what like an ad is is it's advertising for 1600 when normally it was selling for 3000 um and then it you know but they can't yeah here we go so they're saying true price was almost four thousand dollars and then the people are being informed that the project is not good and they were declaring the dead stock basically declaring that the game was dead even though it wasn't so it's just kind of but anyway as you can see a copious amount of tweets trying to do what exactly I don't know but I'm dying to know where it's going because they keep on teasing we're gonna get to the pinball talk I really wish they'd hurry up because I'm getting bored with the competitive advantage stuff that they're putting out there but one of the things that we've noted a long time ago when we saw the AtGames machine was boy it had a lot of things from Arcuda including all those Gottlieb games that was designed because that view did not exist for anything but Arcuda for what Farsight was doing. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the Arcuda with... Pinball Arcade. The Pinball Arcade, right. So obviously they can't include any of the Williams Valley stuff, but they've had all the Godleap stuff, but that was all done with Arcuda's help. And so I'm wondering, is this going to get juicy? Is this going to get nasty? I don't know. So you reckon that what we're seeing in AtGames is actually the same stuff that was in the Arcuda Involucade package? Well, so again, this is where Arcuda's got a problem. They never got their product out to market, right? But they were talking about replaceable game panel right on the apron that has joystick and buttons. What does AtGames come up with? You know? there's a lot of similarities. Connectivity with consoles and other things that you can put on anything. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got a variety of that. That's why I'm curious. I'm wondering if they're building themselves a case to go there. Here's the thing. Kind of, again, if you don't got a product out there, it doesn't matter. Yeah, you've got nothing to protect. AtGames has a product out there. AtGames has proof of concept that, hey, we've got something. It's shipping to customers. It's in customers' houses. And it's working. So where are you?
    9:32
    Exactly right. This is why I'm very curious to know where this is going and if they're going to even have a leg to stand on when push comes to shove. I don't know. Again, I'm reading the tea leaves. I'm seeing what direction their ultimate goal seems to be because they keep on teasing Home Arcade product, which we looked at that one time with that Mercury cabinet, right? Yeah. Which, again, is similar to... Yeah, where is it? But it's in design phase. It's been around for a while. And it takes the Legends arcade cabinet. Takes a lot of cues from that. So I'm just curious to know where it's going with it.
    10:16
    Yeah. It's going to be... They're definitely building to something. and it feels like they're laying out the runway for them to either do something big or something. So we'll just have to go along for the ride, I think, and work out what's going on with Hakuta and see what's happening. Speaking of at games, this is going to be fun, folks, because Jared doesn't know any of this information. I have not seen what we're about to talk about yet. Yes, so we're going to get some genuine reaction from Jared. But, okay, so essentially here's the deal. AtGames announced, finally, the Tato pinball that was teased a while ago. And what those tables are going to be. And they've got imagery of what those are going to look like. And I thought, well, hey, we just did this with Zen, with Noir, and to be yet named Pirates of the Green Hills. Right.
    11:22
    So I thought that, hey, why not do the same thing? I mean, we obviously can't play those yet either, so let's take a look at these and see what the layouts are like and what the art package is like and what's good, what's bad. Yeah, I'm down for that. Go from there. Okay, so, first things first, Jared.
    11:45
    Mm-hmm. Who do you think made these tables for ad games? Okay. So, I don't think it's Farsight. I think it might be the VPX community.
    12:07
    You are correct that it is not Farsight. And on that front, I think we can officially close the door on Farsight and Pinball. Yep, that's it. It's there, done. Bye-bye, RIP.
    12:20
    You're out of the game completely. Farsight is no longer a producer of digital pinball tables. No. It is, however, Magic Pixel.
    12:30
    Magic Pixels are doing the dare. Yeah. This might not suck, then. Magic Pixel has gotten the go-ahead. Yeah, so I'm excited for Magic Pixel to go this route. This is great. I think once you see the imagery, you're going to recognize the Magic Pixel art style very much. Okay. Lay it on me. Let's take a look. Here we go. The first of the Taito tables that they're creating a pinball for, it's for a little game called Darius, or Darius, I'm not sure. Oh, great, shoot them up. It looks a little something like that. Oh, okay. Okay, let me full screen this bad boy. That's a very classic 80s layout. Isn't it, though? That street-level playfield they call that, you know? Right. Lots of very, very bright colors, which fits in with the 80s vibe of it. A nice little horseshoe up the top left of the playfield. Horseshoe up here, yeah. Looks like they've got stand-up targets everywhere on it. No drops. Now, I am not showing you the back glass. It has reels. So this is an EM. This is an EM. This looks like an EM. It looks like an EM. Let me see if I can zoom in on this. And that's good for Magic Pixel for the first couple of days of releasing because that should be easy enough to do art for And rules sorry for because I have to make their own rules Okay so there I got a nice and big Let's take a look. Okay, so here we go. Down at the bottom, obviously, we've got a very long return lane for in-lanes. We've got the in-lanes.
    14:16
    You've got this interesting little loopy thing over there, which, again, that's a very classic. EM style thing. Classic insert lights going on here. Looks like we have a light extra ball inserts over here. We've got a third flipper, which is not necessarily an EM thing. No, not normally. So we're doing a little bit of difference, but obviously that's to shoot these stand-up targets over here. Which advances whole score as the play field. The thing that I like about what they've done here so far, Chris, is they've really kept that EM style where all the instructions are on the play field. Yes. That's really nice that they've actually gone with that pattern. Yes. Two pop bumpers.
    15:07
    Classic three rollovers at the top. Like you said, you've got this horseshoe that looks like it's only accessible from this mid-flipper. We've got a saucer, capture saucer, that I'm assuming is progressive for scores. Looks like it kicks it out to here, once you kick it to your flipper, once you can loop around. Looks like the... Oh, yes, so the horseshoe is one direction only because I've got the directional gauge at the top. Oh, you're right, it's got a gate right there. So you can only shoot that horseshoe from that upper flipper? Yep.
    15:40
    So anyway, that's a pretty classic design right there. Okay. Yeah, that's looking good. I reckon that would shoot well that'd shoot well I reckon ok alright so there's Darius let's take a look at the next one shall we which is oops if I can get it to there's the arrow alright this is Frontline never heard of that game never heard of this game this just looks like a very flat version of Banzai Run ok so that's your You know what? My first impression was Genie.
    16:23
    Oh, yeah. I was just more looking at the colors and the feeling that I get from it at first look. I can see what you're saying with Genie with the upper play field. Yeah. But that's... This upper play field right here, that's full-on Genie. Oh, yeah, that's full-on Genie, for sure. That is full-on Genie. Other than, I don't know if the Genie has... I don't know. This flipper is weird. That looks really bizarre. Is that like a stationary flipper? Like it's not an active flipper? That's an active flipper, but they've really... Do you think? Because there's a screw right here.
    16:55
    So it's not like this is going to be able to go underneath. There's rubbers that I see. No, that's the bottom position of that flipper, and then it will flip up, so it'll actually... That's weird. It's really bizarre. I would not have designed it like that. You can see why they've done it, though. Just have a look at the two horizontal,
    17:15
    the vertical pieces of plastic. They're both the same length. So really, what they probably wanted to do is put the flipper up higher, but then they have that path coming out of the return lanes at the top, and they couldn't quite do that. What they should have done is they should have worked out, they should have grouped the two flippers closer together and moved them down like that, and so they're equal because that's going to really... We're having some issues with you, Jared.
    17:42
    It's the strain of it, folks. Yeah, we had two stutters. So hopefully Jared's stuff will pick up. But now it is interesting to note these return, there are the rollover lanes up here. It looks like it's a hard plastic feeds directly to this flipper here. This is an interesting little horseshoe. It looks like. Yeah. That's going to go behind that drop target bank. Yeah. There's a path behind it. Oh yeah, you're right. So it's going to feed over here, which probably going to roll over feed to there, which. Yeah, and then you go back down to your return lanes again. Yeah. Yeah, that's where it's going to go. Right. Okay.
    18:22
    Again... Again, art style is great. Art style is great. It very much captures an EM style, that era of just vibrant, colorful... Yeah.
    18:36
    The artwork is good, too. Like, I like the style that they've used here. Look at that bonus count. That's Farfella right there. Oh, this right here? The bonus curve. That is definitely a foul color, I think. Or, yeah, the butterfly table. I'd be very curious if anybody can identify if these are partial re-skins of anything, if they're taking influence from any Gottliebs out there, if they're just redoing any of their... It doesn't look like redoes of any of the Zachariah that I know of. No, these look like unique designs. Yeah, and folks, just for the record, Yes, we say Zacharia around here. I don't know who this Zacharia business is, but even in one of the games, when their speech says, Zacharia, or Zacharia, not Zacharia. I don't know.
    19:28
    I've noticed the few that they do Zacharia, and I'm like, Zacharia. It's Zacharia. All right, anyway. Side note, tangent, just had to go there. All right, so that's Frontline.
    19:43
    Let's get off of our Zoom so we can... I'm not even aware what that game is. I don't either. Most... I shouldn't say most. There's quite a few of these Taito games that I have no clue what they are.
    19:58
    Next, Rastan Saga. That sounds familiar to me, but I don't quite know what the game's about. I have heard that name before, but it would have been nice if AtGames had of you know taken the glass off so that the Legends pinball logo wasn't reflected hey at least you know it's actually recorded on the machine that is true alright so let's do a little zoom in on this and see what we see here so okay I like the fact that they've gone with that sort of Like in the, just above the mesh look that they did on some of the other games.
    20:51
    Hold on. It's like the silk screening look. Right. For like a different texture. I don't know the name of that.
    20:59
    You know what I'm saying? That sort of like dot mask that they put over it? Yeah, yeah. That shadow mask? It's four color. It's got a name. I just can't remember the name of it. I can't remember it either. but it's definitely what was done back in the day. Yeah, but that's really cool. Again, that's really authentic.
    21:15
    So here it looks like we've got... Above the head there. Drop targets here. Looks like there's drop targets right here. Two drop targets there. Yeah. And then we're going another two pop bumpers. Again, another upper flipper. Is that a... More drop targets. Yeah, more drop targets here. Is that a saucer? It doesn't look like a saucer. No, it's not a saucer. It's an insert. Ooh, that's a weird shot to try and get your ball to, because that's the only way that it's going to get there is from, presumably, your left flipper, right? Yeah, that's a tight shot. That's a tight shot, and it's going to... There is no rubber right here, so it might do a nice soft thud, and then...
    22:02
    Or it could be a hidden saucer underneath there or something. Yeah, maybe a magnet, possible. the only way to get over to the rollovers is you're going to do a right flipper shot up into this. Yeah. I assume maybe your pop bumpers are going to do a nice kick over there. Yeah, I think your pop bumpers will probably feed that upper right flipper. Probably. So you can get a shot on it. It'll just flop over there. But it won't be it. It'll be interesting to see how that one flips from getting that ball up there. It's a tight shot. It's real tight. So it is kind of interesting that they're doing real, real scoring on this EM, but these feel very much like early solid state.
    22:48
    With that many drop targets, yes, it would be early solid state. Yeah, this feels solid state. So it's kind of interesting that they chose to go the EM scoring route. I think I know why. So they're either going to do one or two things with the sound. they're going to actually have chimes or they're going to have that really early crossover when they had the early solid state but they still had reels so it would be like beeps and boops for the sound effects I think unless you're going to go and completely bridge generations and actually have sound effects and speech and reels and weird sort of like pseudo 70s 80s I think that's what it's going to be because you'll see the next table has exactly what you're talking about. So our next table for this current pack is Space Invaders. Okay, there's a ramp. Space Invaders. We're actually off the play field. Okay, there's a couple of differences on this one. This is the one that they actually had video of the game running. Okay. So you can hear the sound. It's using the sounds from the game, from Space Invaders. Okay. So it's definitely using all of those. The other difference is this is being treated like a DMD game in terms of it's got a DMD. Oh, okay. That being said, it's Zachariah's DMD where it's either scores or some fireworks, and that's the extent of DMD animations.
    24:20
    That's a shame. That has not gone well over on the Facebook page for that game. No, that's slack. I can bet, because I wouldn't be happy about that either. That's just crazy. So you're right. Interesting flipper position over here on the left. The flipper looks like it's a gate for the out lane. Kind of, right? Oh, I can see what it's shooting for. It's shooting for that target just over there. Yep, because you can't glance that from a late left flipper shot. You'd have to shoot from that. I think you're right, because that would wind up hitting the slingshot instead. Yeah, you'd be too late. You wouldn't be able to get angle on it. But you're right, because the post is right here. It's touching the post. Yeah. So that's kind of an interesting aspect. And have a look at the characters. There's two characters that look like they're standing on the play field, and they've got things above them. And they are. Okay, so there's also some animated characters. They're tiny. And from what I could tell was they were just moving forward a little bit, and then they'd disappear. And then they'd move forward a little bit and disappear. And similarly, there were some characters, if we come up top here, that looked like this monster that were coming down a little bit. So what I find interesting about this is they didn't go with what you would think of as Space Invaders.
    25:42
    With like – Right. My initial thought for Space Invaders, and I was kind of shocked, was I expected a whole bank of insert lights up here. Yeah. Almost like Pinbot. that you would have to, you know, the matrix grid, and that you would be having to hit a bank of targets up top and to knock out the invaders. That's what I had thought this would be. And that's not the case at all. So I find that really kind of interesting that they went a completely different route, once again ignoring the video game, just like that we did with the other space invaders. Well, because I kind of have to. but the thing that's interesting and they could have done this approach with Space Invaders too, had a whole row of drop targets like at the top, spaced out like Invaders and you could sharpshoot those drop targets, that would have been satisfying as hell if they did that, because I love a good drop target, that would be great to shoot at so we've got stand up targets over here on the left we've got this lane that goes underneath this ramp that I'm assuming feeds Where is that going? Somewhere.
    26:56
    I don't know where that goes. I don't know where that lane goes. I can't see it. It's covered by the ramp. Yeah, I don't know where that goes. Obviously, we've got a ramp up here that feeds into this wire form that goes all the way down, feeding back to your left flipper. We've got a second ramp that's obviously hit by this upper flipper.
    27:14
    Comes around and drops into... I don't know what that is. Is that a... There's no rollovers. No, there aren't. What does that do? Is that like an upper play field where we just can't see the transparency on or something? No. No, it's because this is... It's a street level. That's where your rubber would be, right? Unless it's magnets or... Because it's going to just drop the ball right here. And just plop down. And plop down almost like a center drain. I have no idea. That is weird. And you saw gameplay of this, right? They have gameplay... There is gameplay video available of this. Anything of that area? Did it show anything about what going on I didn notice I didn study it too hard I don know And then obviously we have this ramp here that feeds this flipper
    28:05
    Yeah, which then will allow you to cross-play field shot to that other ramp, which will feed the weird no-rollover target-y area thing up there. Okay. That's going to have to translate into some sort of gameplay element, because that doesn't make sense just looking at it. So, again, you notice, though, it's still a relatively flat presentation. It's Firepower-era playfield layout. Right. Firepower 2, actually, playfield layout. So here's what I want to point out with these, and I'm going to, let me just cycle through back to the beginning of these, okay? So take a look at these, and just tell me your,
    28:43
    visually looking at this whole thing, Jared, what does your eye do? do these feel very flat to you yeah that one in particular has no no real feeling of dimension to it now does that remind you of something farsight did and i've mentioned it already um you might have to remind me because when genie first came out it was so brightly there's no shadow, there's no contrast, there's no depth. It's just this completely flat look. Now, and I brought it up here just to show you, they did improve it eventually. Yeah, they put some light and shade on it. Right, they darkened this middle section up a little bit, let the lights take a little more center stage. Yeah. So here we can see, let me zoom in on this just so we can see the difference and how close that front line, oops, there we go, on this upper play field. So, okay, so the difference is it's a little bit wider. It gets fed by the pop bumper here. We've got the two flippers here, but that top is definitely similar. This flipper over here is definitely similar. I think that's about where the similarities end, though. Yep. If you take a look at that one and you compare that to their take on that upper left play field, it's Genie all the way from a design perspective. That makes a lot more sense. It's symmetrical. It feels better to shoot because we've played Genie plenty of times. We know how it feels.
    30:27
    It's got a much better feel to it. It'd be really awesome. This is lessons that I would like Magic Pixel to apply, which is darken some things up so that your lights pop a little more, put more detail on your pop bumpers, and that they're not the same detail all the way around, but there's actually, you know, you can see a little bit darker, and then it starts getting brighter as it's coming around. There's detail on the flippers where there's, you know, you can see texture on the flippers. It's flat. That's a big thing is adding texture. Look at the rollover buttons. You know, they added the highlight. That highlight wasn't there originally when Farsight made this. that's not technically a roll over I get what you're saying it just gives because these are really flat tables no matter what and when you go with a top down view on them it's really going to make them feel that way so hopefully that's something that maybe they can learn their lesson on but I don't know hopefully alright so now the next bit of news pricing how much do you think Jared how many tables you get four let's go four bucks a table okay so 16 bucks for the pack 16 ish yeah the answer is $25 so and it's coming out July 4th it's six bucks a table for ems a little steep a little steep that's uh some of that games pricing going on right there um that's basically the magic pixel price plus the games premium i'm seeing a lot of people say well there's licensing huh if only there was another company that did licensing and put out table packs.
    32:30
    Oh, gee, that would be so interesting to compare prices on. Wouldn't it, though?
    32:38
    Yeah, so $25 for this pack comes out July 4th. There's going to be three packs in total. We can take a look at the... So 12 games. Yeah, so we can take a look at the next pack, which will be Operation Wolf, Zookeeper, Chack'n Pop. Never heard of that one. I know. What's that? And Elevator Action. That's some good things in there except for Chack'n Pop, whatever that is. Yeah, I've never heard of that one. No idea. That's coming out, I guess it's coming out on Owner's Day. Whatever day that's going to be in the fall, in autumn. Again, 25 bucks for that pack.
    33:17
    And there's no imagery for these. No. Awesome. I went and found the imagery. and after that we have thanksgiving here so late november for those of you that don't have you know aren't in the states it's gonna be the legend of cage rainbow islands bubble bobble and arcanoid now arcanoid that one dude that needs five billion drop targets oh yeah just everywhere just yeah just and like four rows of drop targets that you gotta pound through absolutely like that's that's what you need there um even i mean they wouldn't do this but they could really like have fun with that if zen was to do that they would make that very very unrealistic and they would actually put like like drop targets but well they would be more reflective of the level design in arcanoid if you think about it zen has done well they know they haven't done Sarcanoid, but they have played with the mechanic of, on Doom and on Rebels, and I'm not sure if there's a third one, but where you're moving a character across the bottom with your flippers, balls hitting, and you're trying to hit targets to knock them down. Very much like the Shadow Play field. Even in Alien Isolation, there's a minigame that is exactly Arkanoid. Yeah, where you're breaking the, you're hacking when you do hacking mode. so i would at the very least i expect some kind of that mechanic to go on otherwise it's not just basically yeah because otherwise you're just slapping arcanoid art on a pinball table right and it's not going to carry forward they could do great things with that and the thing is magic pixel with the chops to be able to do it yeah they know clearly from these playfield designs like barring the fact that they're a little bit flat at the moment yeah they know how to make bespoke tables. Probably, definitely better than Farsight did with their own creations. Well, we like their EMs. They're really good at EMs. Yeah, they are.
    35:28
    And from what people are saying, I don't know if the physics have made their way to PC that they're talking about, but a lot of people that are owners of the AtGames products and have the Zacharia packs have said that the physics had gotten improved recently and they're really, really good. All right. So, I mean, I got no issue. I'm happy for Magic Pixel that they're getting this opportunity, being able to do something. They made the right choice here. Like, Act Games picked the right vendor here to do this work. So good on them for selecting the right vendor here. Because, again, I think that Magic Pixel understands this era of art style. Very well. Yeah. Oh, very, very well. They've got this. They've got this, for sure. Yeah. So here's my question, though, Jared. Hmm. Okay, now we've seen the pricing. Yeah, we've seen the tables. We've seen the tables. Where's the outrage?
    36:33
    The outrage? Yeah. Well, I mean, come on. This is exclusive. It's only available through the AtGamesLegends store.
    36:43
    On their hardware. It's not going to be available on PC. And look at the price that they're charging. These are all things that everybody was giving Zen a real hard time about in regards to the Epic Game Store.
    36:57
    That's true. This is even more exclusive because the cost of entry... You've got to have a $700 piece of hardware to run it. Or you can get the Legends Arcade Gamer, you know, lab deck. Which would suck. and it's not coming out to those stuff immediately it comes out later for them this is first going to legends pinball um obviously that's but yeah but no but it is interesting though reading the comments of people because everybody's just like whoa take my money i'm so happy and there's zero outrage and i'm like well what about all these man you know what about all the magic pixel customers that are happy with their games on console and happy with their games on PC, how come they don't get it? Now, to be fair, this is a smart thing that Ad Games is doing.
    37:48
    They're avoiding what people are doing with the Legends Arcade Cabinet, being putting in a PC and then having FX3 playing on the cabinet. They're making it so you can't do that at all. But it's still interesting because talk about exclusivity and they can charge whatever the heck they want. Whatever they want. Yeah. Whatever they want. That's why they're $25. Why they're $25, which, again, you figure, okay, they'll go on sale. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the Canadians are already going, I ain't paying $30 for a pack. I wouldn't pay $40 for those. No. Not $10 a table. Again, $75 gets you 12 tables.
    38:29
    So they give you like a fourth pack free. Oh, no. Hang on. No, because there are only three. So no discount. No discount. That's what I'm saying. So $75 gets you $12.
    38:39
    Now, again, do the math on what were the Zachariah packs selling for with, and I don't know how many tables were included in each of those packs, but it was more than four, and they were charging, well, what was it, $50 a pack?
    38:57
    I can't quite remember. I think it was $50 a pack because there was four packs, and it was totaling out at $200. Yeah, that was without the owner's day discount that they had on release. Yeah, that's right. So there's going to be a lot of people waiting for that discount, and that's the thing. The owner's day discount, if it's half off, now we're at the price that it should have been.
    39:16
    Yeah. Which is a trend that I noticed. I think there's been one that's been on the fence. It's a trend that I noticed with that game's pricing, because I've seen also a couple of videos of people reviewing the deck to add on to the pinball machine, and everybody's pretty much come down on the same line that we said. if it was $100, yeah. But $200? Yeah, nah. That's a bit steep.
    39:38
    You're asking a bit much. So, I don't know. All in all, interesting. Yeah. You're right, it's interesting that there's not that much rage going on about exclusivity. But I think from the outset,
    39:57
    AtGames made it very clear that these would be exclusive to the platform tables. So maybe because that expectation was set so early on, people are going, oh, yeah, okay, well, they're just delivering what they promised, basically.
    40:12
    As opposed to people making assumptions of what Zen would do based off of prior actions and then being butthurt over that.
    40:22
    Yes, correct. Yeah. Okay. so this brings in yet another wrinkle that is if AtGames is getting in bed with Zacharia or MagicPixel more you know they want to back up a Brinks truck to Stern and if MagicPixel is able to show their chops could that be a potential roadblock or stumbling block with Zen for who, if Stern comes up with who would get it. I have my thoughts, but what are your thoughts? So this is an interesting pickle because they can, they've proven two things. That they can produce replicas of real world tables and they can they can sort out the emulation required to run the rules in those real world tables albeit rather basic rule emulation um of that era um they've also proven that they can step up the game and do like full video screen tables and yes we've already expressed our opinions about what those video tables have on the back glass and on the animated screen but it still a blueprint they still still show that they can do it so and whereas zen is stuck in the 90s with their dmds their overall presentation of pinball um you know not even like color dmd just monochrome like dot matrix um so if i was stern i would be looking at the less about those aspects because then could easily go and step up to that if they needed to i'd be looking at more the ability to represent the brand of stern um in a more positive light with things like animations and overall package polish and things like that so what zacharia does what magic pixel does well is they churn out tables but the people like stern they have a very specific brand they're trying to promote and i think magic pixel would need to step up a lot if they were going to meet that brand expectation of stern yeah so my thoughts are i agree with exactly what you're saying they've made it so that they can be a player on the table um yeah that that it's it's not something that stern could just dismiss out of hand and be like you're not even an option no they're making a case for themselves being an option.
    43:38
    Where I think they falter, this is again where AtGames is going to falter, these are all Android based. They're not going to be able to have the processing power to be able to handle what a stern Spike 2 is going to be requiring. I think even Zen would struggle with that at the moment. Their engine is being rewritten for Unreal, but they couldn't do that. And this is the other thing. And so there's that aspect of things. There's also, we know that Stern, and specifically Mel, has had plenty of contact with Stern, has had interactions.
    44:19
    There's even photographic evidence on Twitter of him meeting with Gary. Yeah. Can't say the same thing for ad games.
    44:27
    Or Zachary. Or Magic Beasts. Right, right. So is there even a relationship there to go with? Probably not. Don't know. The third thing is it seems to me that everything that Zen is doing right now is partially positioning themselves to do the things that Stern wants. Can you give some examples of that?
    45:00
    In terms of increasing what your pinball engine is, in terms of being very strict about your licensing, and proving that you can do licensing with big companies and with a third-party company, i.e. Arcade 1-Up, I think that the Legends pinball based off of the community and their mods and what they want to do is not what Stern wants to be seeing especially how it's almost encouraged yeah you're right it is definitely encouraged with the AtGames community modding is almost built into its DNA Right, and considering Stern's concerns with licensing, as we've seen that they came out with their own, their new user agreement, that they're very much being protective of those licenses, that I think they're going to want to stick with a company that has a very proven track record. as opposed to with AtGames. Yes, they've got licensed stuff, but it's also kind of spotty with what their licensing is.
    46:22
    They're also not big-name licenses. They're essentially the legacy licenses that really, in the case of Zachariah, Magic Pixel, has carte blanche to do what they want with it. So that's an easy win for them. I mean, Taito was not a small license, but... No, it's not. But it's also, when you think about it, and I... Here's what's kind of interesting with Space Invaders. I was like, why did I think Space Invaders was an Atari title? I was like, oh, maybe it was Taito and then Atari, you know, something happened. And so then I was kind of looking, and I went on the Wikipedia page and everything, and no, in fact, it was Taito was responsible for distributing the game in Japan, And then Bally Midway was responsible for Space Invaders worldwide.
    47:12
    And it wasn't until the Atari 2600 licensed Space Invaders, which became the basically killer app to sell consoles, they sold 2.1 million cartridges of Space Invaders. Wow, that's a lot of time. Which is why I think I associate Space Invaders with Atari and not Tato. That is a very interesting point you make. That is a classic brand awareness market share thing.
    47:41
    So you associated that game, even though it would have Taito branding all over it, you still associated it with the Atari because of its popularity. Yep. Because where did I play it the most? On the console. Yep. So that's what sticks in your mind more. It's not about brands. It's not about whatever. It's how you experience it as a customer, right? Yeah, interesting. I thought that was kind of interesting where that was going. But I think this, though, does open up the opportunity for those other licenses that AdGames has. if they can prove that, hey, look what we did with the Taito license. Can we do the same with, you know, maybe they do with Capcom or something. I'm not sure what the other licenses that they've, you know, contracted with. Yeah. But they could keep Magic Pixel busy for a while. And we already know what Magic Pixel is capable of in terms of, if you really think that this is all it's going to be with these EM-style tables, if you don't believe they're going to come out with deluxe versions that all of a sudden become you know full on late 80s early 90s style yeah you haven't been paying attention because it's going to happen you haven't been paying attention to what Magic Pixel does yeah that's right this is their proof of concept this is their iteration one of these designs expect more to come I would think yeah I would definitely expect that so and that's that can only be good for at games customers oh absolutely good on them for doing it let magic pixel do what they're good at and let that community benefit from that experience yes good stuff yes yeah all right so now let's circle around back to the death of farsight yeah um because clearly we had thought and we weren't the only ones that had thought this that it was going to be Farsight handling the Taito stuff. We had said that we thought they were just going to be rescanning. Clearly, we're way wrong. Way wrong. And to be honest, very thankful that we were that far off in this particular case. But this, I think, proves also without a doubt, Farsight is done with pinball. If they can... This is as close as to anything that they would have been producing, more pinball. and that door seems to have been shut. Magic Pixel has stepped in. So what the hell does that mean for the Gottlieb license?
    50:27
    Yeah, it's dead in the water. I mean, is it literally going to be just a case of Farsight just holding onto it, holding it ransom?
    50:37
    Probably. So they can actually sell it and try and get some money back? Yeah. Like, they're just going to be, like, licensed sitting on it. If it is indeed theirs, and they actually own the intellectual property to it now, which I'm not sure. Nobody knows. That would have been an interesting deal. Nobody understands the Gottlieb licensing or what the agreement was or anything of that nature.
    51:01
    But it's like, yeah, they are dead as far as Pimble goes now. But it's just incredibly sad then that the Godly would be, like you said, licensed sitting. Just not getting a chance for another company to go in and swoop in and do something with it. Such a massive back catalog with Godly. And not even System 80 A, B, and System 9 stuff. Like, there's, like, such an amazing back catalogue of historic EMs in that collection that you could just release years' worth of pinball with that license. Well, again, they were kings of pinball up until the late 70s. Yeah. I mean, you might even say right up until 1980. They were kings of pinball. Right until they switched to solid state, actually. Right? Yeah. Unfortunately. then they sort of lost the plot of it but as far as their EM designs feel in fact the early solid state like Genie Star Race those sort of really early solid state designs they were still good and then they started to do things like Bone Busters and just rubbish like that when they got bought out by Premiere yeah that's when things went bad I mean the later Gottlieb tables like you know Big Hurt, that's a fun table.
    52:37
    And things like Stargate, that's also a fun table as well, but very formulaic. Like, their rule system was basically, you know, two ramps and a big feature. Very much D'Arterie style, actually, in the way that they laid out things. So the beauty of their EM era was it was simplistic, it was well laid out, the art was good, and the gameplay feel, they just really had the mechanics right on it so replicate that in pinball you've got the license to print money i think for real pinheads and the thing is that pinball is moving well and truly into that nostalgia stage now where you could produce a whole pile of ems and people would buy them well i i and and again i think at games has found that audience because if you read the comments of the at games customers they love the zacharia product yeah way more than farsights oh way more um and they don't have an issue with the em era i mean i know some people are like yeah it's not that great but they in general they like the zacharia stuff and so i'm sure they're cycling through it um and it and again depending on how these title tables play uh can tell a lot about how they would handle Sol State and stuff, but I really think that if anybody should get the Gottlieb license, this is where it should land. Magic Pixel all the way. Magic Pixel should do it, and I would think that it would be a perfect home for ad games.
    54:14
    Yep, I would agree. I would actually like to see the Gottlieb license surrendered to Magic Pixel. they would they truly would do it justice and it would be really really nice they might have to tweak the game engine for some of the later Gottliebs or not even worry about the later Gottliebs just stick with the no just stick with the early solid states and EMs yeah that you've got a real nice collection of games there like yeah it seems like a logical choice to me anyway interesting stuff all the same again if you want to see a video of Space Invaders in action it's there on YouTube you can find it you don't really need me to direct you to it this coming week Zen once again has the pinball show I can't believe that's come around so quickly I know right I'm assuming that maybe we'll get a reveal of the third table I don't know so we'll be tuning in to find out and probably have comments on the next show that we do because again we're not lined up with the pinball show to be able to give immediate reactions but that's okay so obviously we'll be talking about that and what else Jared?
    55:38
    Stuff and things as always alright folks make sure you go ahead and maybe follow us there on the old Twitter drop us a message and the like. We like hearing from you guys. But until next time. Sure. Bye-bye.