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Jeff - Dirty Pool Pinball - Episode 64

JBS Show·podcast_episode·1h 7m·analyzed·Jun 3, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Dirty Pool's Jeff critiques D&D design, discusses streaming tech, and warns of predatory DLC practices in pinball.

Summary

Jeff from Dirty Pool Pinball discusses his background in post-production, his transition to live Twitch streaming and podcast hosting, and provides detailed critical analysis of Dungeons & Dragons pinball design flaws. The conversation covers streaming technology (OBS vs YoloBox), community transparency in pinball, and broader industry issues including incomplete code at release, FOMO-driven business models, and the emerging problem of DLC/paid toppers in pinball machines.

Key Claims

  • D&D suffers from primary design flaws: the game mechanics force ball setup on upper right flipper, making gameplay monotonous and repetitive; the left ramp and right magnet short out after ~25 minutes due to overheating

    high confidence · Jeff provides detailed technical breakdown of D&D playfield design during extended segment

  • Stern's business model is explicitly based on FOMO; they release LEs first to bait early adopters, then premiums, then pros for operators

    high confidence · Jeff explicitly states 'Stern's business model is based on FOMO. 100%. They are setting it up to make people feel like they need to get on board'

  • Uncanny X-Men has been out for 6-9 months with very little code progress since launch

    high confidence · Jamie confirms X-Men launched 'right before expo' (October) and Jeff notes 'it's been out for six to nine months and there's been very little progress on it'

  • Modern pinball machines are software products requiring continuous patches, unlike 80s/90s hardware-based designs

    high confidence · Jeff explains 'pinball machines are software now they're not like they were in the 80s and 90s where it was more of just a matrix of on and off switches'

  • D&D and Jaws now feature $1,000-$2,000 premium toppers that unlock in-game content, representing paid DLC in pinball

    high confidence · Jeff states 'there's two Sterns hoppers that are $1,000, $2,000 or whatever to have stuff happen in your game it's in Jaws and it's in D&D now for a character that you get to unlock'

  • Pinball Underground (Enzo) proposed a solution to D&D's upper flipper feed problem using center button to trigger cube magnet capture

    high confidence · Jeff credits 'the guys from Pinball Underground, shout out to Enzo' for coming up with the center button solution

Notable Quotes

  • “I don't give a fuck. I will ask them that. And it's like, for the development of pinball, not because I want to start, like, drama with them... I don't think companies should be dodging tough questions about products that are being sold to people for an expensive amount.”

    Jeff @ ~15:00 — Defines Jeff's editorial approach to critical coverage; signals willingness to challenge manufacturers publicly

  • “Stern's business model is based on FOMO. 100%. They are setting it up to make people feel like they need to get on board... they know what they're doing.”

    Jeff @ ~42:00 — Explicit industry criticism of Stern's intentional scarcity/release timing strategy

  • “I really wanted D&D to be awesome. And then after jumping on it, like, I wanted Brian Eddy to come out with, like, a big win... Part of me is just butthurt.”

    Jeff @ ~55:00 — Reveals personal investment in designer success and motivation behind D&D criticism; contextualizes opinion as preference for Eddy's other games

  • “Nobody's making you buy a fucking $8,000 to $13,000 pinball machine on day one.”

    Jeff @ ~35:00 — Frames consumer responsibility in relation to incomplete code releases

  • “If Stern was more transparent about when code updates were coming through roadmaps... you're treating the consumer with respect by showing them that you care about their feedback.”

    Jamie @ ~47:00 — Industry transparency concern; identifies lack of communication as primary issue vs. pricing itself

  • “The YoloBox Extreme is not 1.0 code. I can tell you that... it's not good enough yet. It's good enough. Are they adding that?”

    Jeff @ ~22:00 — Assessment of streaming hardware readiness; suggests tournament streaming features still incomplete

  • “Stern is a business. They're supposed to make money. That's the whole point of running a business. This isn't a charity.”

    Jamie @ ~42:00 — Balances criticism with business reality acknowledgment

Entities

JeffpersonJamiepersonRetro RalphpersonCale HernandezpersonRachelpersonBowenpersonJack DangerpersonBrian Eddyperson

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community criticism of incomplete code releases is 'rightfully so' but hampered by lack of manufacturer transparency. Games priced high despite missing features; prices drop over 6-12 months as patches eventually arrive, creating secondary market opportunities but deterring launch purchases.

    high · Jeff: 'a game that isn't complete starts falling in price because it's been six months... they're not at 1.0'; Jamie: 'if Stern was more transparent about when code updates were coming through roadmaps... you're treating the consumer with respect'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball content creator community is exceptionally collaborative and transparent; established creators (streamers, podcasters) proactively help new creators with technical/professional advice without gatekeeping. High contrast to other online communities.

    high · Jeff: 'There hasn't been a single person that i've met who's just been like, no... they'll tell you and they'll help you and they'll guide you through it'; specifically credits Carl D'Angelo for extensive help

  • ?

    design_philosophy: D&D Pinball suffers from fundamental playfield design flaws: monotonous ball control mechanics requiring upper right flipper setup, component overheating (left ramp/magnet shorting after 25 min), poor visibility of ball feeds, and limited meaningful shots (dragon targets drain immediately, other shots either feed upper flipper or don't register). Community (Pinball Underground) has proposed fixes.

    high · Jeff's detailed technical breakdown of D&D mechanics and acknowledgment that 'the game is designed around a mechanic that's not fun'; Enzo's proposed center-button solution for consistent ball capture

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Modern pinball has shifted from hardware matrix (80s/90s) to software-driven products requiring continuous post-release patching. Industry debate centers on where 'minimum viable release' threshold should be: feature-complete with all modes, or iterative with player feedback driving improvements.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.203

0:00
🎵 I'm good, man. Thank you so much for having me on. This is a blast. I can't wait. Yeah, I can't wait, too. Welcome to my home studio here. I don't have the professional lighting or the professional anything that Jeff possesses, so we're going to delve into that.
0:46
We're going to delve into that. Cale Hernandez asked me a question right off the bat this morning. I said, hey, I'm interviewing Jeff from Dirty Pinball. And he said, I want to know where he came from. I want to know his history, his story. because I understand he's coming on your podcast in a couple of weeks, right? Him and Rachel? He is, July 8th or July 1st, I think. I'm very stoked. It'll be the first arcade I actually have on it. And, you know, I mean, part of the reason I started the podcast was to try to get a little bit more transparency between like both pinball companies, arcades, and then consumers as well. So I want to, you know, like people don't really know what goes on behind the scenes. And pinball people love to have an opinion on like what's going on with games. and I feel like there's more to what's going on behind the curtains. And sometimes it's not justified and the companies have, you know, some, they need explaining, they're explaining to do, you know, and sometimes it's just educational. You come out of the bat hot, right? Like, you know, none of us, when we all first started, I started in COVID like so many of us, right?
1:49
The first few to 10 podcasts are unlistenable sometimes to me because I just don't, it's not the guest's fault. It was totally my fault, right? You don't have any of those. There's no, you come out of the bat swinging already. What do you want? How many podcasts have you done? And they're all very good.
2:07
Thank you. I mean, I still feel like I'm learning. And I think that there are definitely holes in the, you know, like the first ones are a little rough. And I think that a lot of like talking to you, talking to some of the people that are on Twitch, like I've had so many people help me kind of like onboard fast to get it up here but i i have a history in post-production like i have a i have a post-production company so like i'm used to making stuff look and sound good but uh i'm not used to being like a personality on the internet among anything so that was i mean i didn't do this because i just i like living in my little hole and not being seen or heard so that was like a huge hurdle to get over and become like, okay, well, I guess I need to talk to people and not be afraid of that.
Enzo
person
David Vanessperson
Jeff Teolisperson
Carl D'Angeloperson
Tom Graffperson
Colinperson
Dirty Pool Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Barrels of Funcompany
Pinball Undergroundorganization
Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) Pinballgame
Uncanny X-Men Pinballgame
King Kong Pinballgame
Jaws Pinballgame
YoloBox Extremeproduct

high · Jeff explains: 'the modern way of developing software is to release it and then patch it'; discusses tension between 'feature complete' vs. 'release and iterate' philosophies

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball industry sliding toward video game monetization practices (DLC, battle pass, cosmetic paywalls) despite being niche hobby product. Community concerns about 'predatory practice' precedent if normalized. Debate whether this is inevitable evolution or existential risk to hobby culture.

    medium · Jeff warns: 'it's a dangerous road the pinball community needs to stand up for that before it becomes an issue'; compares D&D topper purchases to Bethesda/Paradox DLC model; Jamie acknowledges 'we need people like Jeff in this hobby'

  • $

    market_signal: D&D Pinball is commercially successful at locations ('hemorrhaging quarters in the best possible way') despite critical design flaws, demonstrating market disconnect between casual operator profitability and enthusiast gameplay quality concerns.

    high · Jamie: 'That thing's printing money... it's just like hemorrhaging quarters in the best possible way'; Jeff acknowledges both design issues and location success simultaneously

  • ?

    community_signal: Jeff transitioned from behind-scenes post-production professional to public personality/streamer/podcaster despite self-described discomfort with visibility. Community mentors (Carl D'Angelo, Tom Graff, Bowen Kerins, Jack Danger) provided technical/professional guidance to accelerate onboarding.

    high · Jeff: 'I didn't do this because I just I like living in my little hole and not being seen or heard... that was like a huge hurdle to get over'; names multiple mentors who helped him 'onboard fast'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's three-tier pricing model combined with emerging DLC/paid topper practice creates perceived predatory monetization. Games cost $8,000-$13,000 at launch with incomplete code, then additional $1,000-$2,000+ hoppers unlock in-game content. Compared unfavorably to video game industry free-to-play models.

    high · Jeff: 'they're charging $10,000 for a pinball machine and now you're nickel and diming people for more'; Jamie notes D&D and Jaws feature '$1,000, $2,000 or whatever' premium hoppers

  • ?

    product_strategy: Uncanny X-Men has received minimal code updates in 6-9 months since launch (October 2024). Game mechanics are fun but code features are substantially incomplete, creating consumer frustration despite designer reputation.

    high · Jeff/Jamie conversation: 'it's been out for six to nine months and there's been very little progress on it' and 'All of them [X-Men owners] are being like where's my code?'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern deliberately uses FOMO-driven release strategy: LEs released first to capture early adopters/streamers with disposable income, followed by premiums for home collectors, then pros for operators. This is intentional business design, not accidental.

    high · Jeff explicitly states: 'Stern's business model is based on FOMO. 100%... they know what they're doing'; Jamie confirms 'you can't make new pinball machines and buy new licenses with gratuity'

  • ?

    technology_signal: YoloBox Extreme streaming hardware platform lacks 1.0 code maturity; missing critical tournament features (score overlays, draw-on-screen capability). Despite stability, insufficient for professional tournament streaming without workarounds.

    high · Jeff: 'YoloBox Extreme is not 1.0 code. I can tell you that... it's not good enough yet'; lists missing features: 'I need a web interface... putting the scores up is cumbersome... you can't draw on it yet'

    • 2:52
    So many artists are in this hobby in and of itself, and so many artists are in the content creation space. If you look at them, like Rachel is an artist. I mean, she really is. And so many people like myself have this itch. You know, we entered the professional world. We did not enter the creative world. And so we just scratch our itch with this great podcast that we're doing. So we're on Riverside, by the way. FM, what do you think? You know, the constraints are the Internet, right? So if it buffers or any of that. But the software itself is pretty cool, right? Yeah. For an all-in-one package, I got to be honest, it was pretty easy just to hop on and have everything kind of like just work. and I'm using my OBS virtual camera, and I kind of have a weird audio setup just to be able to do the things that I'm doing, and it had no problem picking it up. So there you go.
    3:51
    So let's delve back into you have a post-production background. It's obvious you know what you're doing, right, with the video quality that you've done. Why the live podcast? What gave you that idea to do it live with Twitch? because the only one that else is really doing that is Buffalo Pinball. They do it.
    4:16
    I mean, that's a good question. I mean, I think it's just because, like, honestly, the people on Twitch, like, I didn't start on YouTube. I didn't really start on Instagram. Twitch was the avenue for when I did the Twilight Zone Pinball. Like, I'd done a custom audio package for it and was just like, I need to stream this. And I've watched Bowen for decades on the, you know, and I've been watching pinball tournaments forever ever and was just like you know this is going to be a better format to show this off so the people that have been watching me on twitch are what helped grow the channel to begin with so i was just like i'm gonna i started with doing a kong and a dune kind of like live reaction to when the footage for that came out and uh just like because i was like i don't know bored i didn't feel like setting up the whole rig to do a game and i wanted to talk about it and uh the people on the channel had a lot of interesting feedback for it and it was just nice to be able to kind of like live go back and forth with what was going on and i was like man i went this would translate pretty good to a podcast and then i was like you know what i'm gonna start pinging some people in the industry and around see if they're interested you know i feel like the channel has a professional look to it to a certain degree and like maybe they'll want to be on it and you know there's just start opening people want to be on the podcast and it's just kind of like it's doing its thing you know people in this community if you ask most of them will say yes right and so i you know the only other one that was doing uh really interviews pinball profile and i didn't really want to step on jeff's toes because jeff joles has a different uh aspect of what he does and i was like well i'm a recruiter i interview people professionally for a living this could be really fun for me right uh but audio wise i had to learn all of this i had to learn audio video how to deal with obs all these things that you don't have to do so you kind of it was i'm very jealous of the fact hold on there my background definitely helped for post-production but dude shout out to like every streamer that does this professionally because as soon as i like jumped into the obs boat i was like holy shit like this is way harder than it looks like people that just think you can put on a you know funny cat costume and you know just jump on the internet and suddenly it's it's easy click a few buttons it's not like that and to make it look and sound good it's it's hard yeah well shout out to bone karen's and carl d'angelo and tom graff and jbl pinball those are the four that i went to when my stream sucked because i wanted to do and have the quality that they had in jack danger at and they unlike any other hobby just said here's what you need here's what you need what can i help what can i do to help you carl d'angelo i i i should send him a fruit basket how many times i bothered him right it's he's gonna be he's gonna be here alive in a couple weeks so he was actually supposed to be here two weeks ago but he got sick carl poor carl is getting sick like every other week it's so bad for him if it isn't if it isn't a cold it's covid and if it's not covid it's something else well get well soon you're you're right about the community being super welcoming i there hasn't been a single person that i've met who's just been like, no, I have these pinball stuff is top secret. I'm not going to help you or something like that. It's just like, we all do this because we love the hobby, not because it's, I don't know, financially beneficial or something like that. No, I, I, I'm, I'm, that's one of the best things about this hobby is that any content creator, if you say, Hey, how are you doing this? They'll tell you and they'll help you and they'll guide you through it. Like I dumped OBS and went YoloBox. Oh yeah, I have one but I haven't used it yet. How is the interface? Not there yet. I would say a brand new pinball machine launched without the code. How about that? So every game the last five years? Yeah, exactly. The YoloBox Extreme is not 1.0 code. I can tell you that. I put it in the 60s. there's a lot it needs to do, especially for tournament streamers like me. I need to be able to put up the scores of the players. I need a web interface, and the web interface is just not good enough yet. It's good enough. Are they adding that? I got the OBS box for similar. I wanted to stream tournaments, but I'm not doing it with commentary and scores posted yet. There's so many tournaments that are popping up in Los Angeles, and I just want to give an avenue for that to be on the internet just because I can't imagine how many arcades have good players playing and people can't watch it. I did this too, Jeff, and it's a wormhole you're going to go down because when I was with the wormhole, I just was just going to do our stream and then it became I got addicted to tournament streaming and that's my warning to you because tournament streaming is really fun and those viewers with your quality are going to love it and you're going to start adding the overlays. I'm telling you, you're going to push OBS to the limit like I did. Well, not if I'm using the OBS bot or the YOLO box, you know.
    9:32
    I'm really close to building a new rig for Eureka Heights Brewery, which is right down the street from me, and I'm going to start streaming tournaments there.
    9:45
    And the YOLO boxes were so close. Ugh, were so close. And that's a shout-out to Rob. Do you think it's a platform? Is it viable now, or is it, like, not worth it? Yeah, it's very viable. It is fast. It is stupid proof. It doesn't crash.
    10:06
    It's just little things like, for the tournament guys, putting the scores up is a little cumbersome.
    10:14
    Okay? And the last thing you wanted to do is, there's so much that goes on in a tournament that you don't want it to be more difficult to get the information onto the platform, I imagine.
    10:24
    It's annoying enough that I can get through it. Right? Okay? And you can't draw on it yet. That's a mistake, right? You've got to be able to draw when you're doing commentary. And I use that again. I mean, like, hey, they need to be hitting the shot. They need to be doing this or or they're more than likely going to be doing this one with the great players, especially for people that aren't familiar with pinball. Like, you know, you talk about certain shots or certain spots on the play field verbally. Like, you've got to be able to draw on it. What you're talking about. Tournament wise, even flipping out pinball. Look at Joel streams sits there. You know, he's constantly doing it for the players. that want to watch and want to know his in-depth knowledge of the rules. So anyway, that's not an available feature yet, so I've been on their ass on chat. Maybe if we double-team them, maybe we can get some features into it. Let's go, because the YoloBox Extreme is pretty great. It just needs a couple of add-ons for us. Would that make us YoloBros, you think? Well, me, you, and Ralph. Can we trademark that? You and Ralph, and I think Carl's going to be a YOLO bro too soon. Dude, the salt and pepper squad, you know what I mean? Yeah, let's go.
    11:44
    We'll make it happen. So, Ralph, you answered Cale's question where you came from. Ralph has a question for you, retro Ralph. Sure, hit me. Are you into the Illuminati? What is with the eye? no the illuminati gag is is specifically just because the first pinball machine that i wanted to stream the whole reason that i started this was twilight zone and the the pyramid the power pyramid is like the whole gag on twilight zone it's part of the power play field you blow it up with the power ball like it's literally the theme of that and then as soon as i was just like building the channel i was just like man it'd be cool to just theme it just in some way and i was like, you know what, I'm going to go whole hog in this cult Illuminati thing, the cult of pinball. And then as we started building rewards, I don't trigger any of the rewards on the stream. That's sometimes a joke. But whenever we get new followers, we have this whole gag where they get a bath by this guy that we've named Tub Guy. And we just have all these rewards that are specifically designed around what's interacting and happening on the stream. But it's up to chat to make it happen. I want them to drive the boat on terms of what the interaction for it is. Because I can't stand Twitch streams where the interaction feels fake. Like, I hate Jimmy Fallon. Like, I hate everything about his, like, just fake candor. And, like, it's just like when he talks to guests, it's like you can tell he's just checking boxes instead of trying to get into the nitty gritty. And, like, when I did the podcast, I'm like, we were talking, Colin, I'm from Kineticist and some others were talking on the Discord about asking Stern some questions. And I was just like, there were some questions that people would be afraid of getting their channel, like, blackmarked or whatever. And I was like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I will ask them that. And it's like, for the development of pinball, not because I want to start, like, drama with them. And it's just like, I don't think companies should be dodging tough questions about products that are being sold to people for an expensive amount. Like, and pinball machines are totally an entertainment product. They're not necessary. Nobody needs a pinball machine. No question. So, you know, I want pinball to get better and I want the companies to be on board with that. But if they're going to start like blacklisting people just because they don't like what they're saying, if it's if it's critical in a way that is criticism that can help benefit the like end product. Right. Right. They should listen. How do you handle the is how you portray the criticism? It's how you, you know, I'm fucking this all up. So I'll edit this out. But it's how you. I'm why it's true. You know what I mean? It's how you present that criticism is the damn word I'm trying to get to here. Totally. And like I have ripped D&D. I have ripped D&D apart. And a lot of that comes because it was a game that I was like really excited for. I don't think it's a good game. And, you know, when people ask me that on the stream, like I get really into it. I get in a whole lot of detail about what design wise I think is, is the fallacy of it, where it could be taken to improve it, where it can't because of just like how the geometry of the play field is. So when people come to watch, like I want them to not just hear me bitching and moaning and making a lot of noise about pinball, but like it's an educated opinion. And if they want that information, then they can take that and pair it with their own opinion and make a decision on what they want to do. Delvin, the D and D brought it up. I love D and D. Why should I not love it?
    15:12
    So D&D, this is like the best avenue for me to talk about it, I guess. This is the moment, right? Yeah. So I think that D&D suffers from its primary design language for the play field. And the movement of the ball is about setting the ball up on the upper right flipper. And that's because the lower right flipper feeds two important shots that only feed that flipper, right? You can shoot the FISMO shot, which then launches it over to the flipper. or you can hit the left orbit and then it feeds down to the upper right flipper, right? Now, on paper, that's fine. There are other shots you can make with it, like backhanding, but look at the shots that you can backhand. You can't really backhand the right ramp. The center shot is not fun. You should, as soon, you can, 20 minutes after you're playing D&D, you're done hitting the center spinner because it's so easy, right? So the only three shots that really are, like, matter for it are the dragon targets, which drain immediately. You got to put the shield up to use it, or the FISMO shot and the left orbit. Now, since both of those shots feed the upper right flipper, now the whole game is just about getting the ball up there. So now the second part of this that is a problem is that it's stop and go. It takes too long for the fucking ball to get launched over there and then grabbed. Mechanically, those elements both fail, the left ramp and the right magnet. Short out after about 25 minutes of play, they overheat. So now the two fucking primary reasons of playing the game no longer function. and then you can't even see the ball feeding that consistently because there's so much junk up there. There's three ramps. There's the sign for the vertical up kick. Everything clouds your ability to know when to time that upper right flipper shot. Now the guys from Pinball Underground, shout out to Enzo, came up with a great idea on how to resolve that which is using the center button to capture the ball with the cube So you shoot it up there and then you can hit the button to trigger the magnet to grab it That way you get a consistent feed down to that flipper It solves not being able to see any of that stuff. So I just think that the game is designed around a mechanic that's not fun. So you pop, not only does it bring up your shield, but it also brings under the gelatinous cube. Right. Use it as a way to grab the ball. Again, adding a mechanic for a center button, a third mechanic, is not the best design choice, but it would provide an ability to grab it. And then the other thing that I'm like, I don't understand how they didn't do this, is the map. I have the idea for putting a map in there, which is, I think, personally a great idea, and I hope Stern is listening and maybe will consider this. When you complete a town, you can shoot FISMO, and guess what's in the shop? A map that you can buy. and when you buy the map then for that city you can now go into the dungeon and it will have gridded out classic dnd style everything about the dungeon so now you because the issue with the dungeons is you spend 30 seconds in there at tops before you drain you never get to explore them it's so boring right so they've they solved that supposedly recently by adding a 20 second ball save that's right so yeah they add this 20 second ball save but still you can't out explore it just because when the 20 seconds runs out, it's done. So it would fit into the mechanics and layering of what they have in the game already. Beat the town, buy the map, then you can go to the dungeon and know exactly where everything is and explore it as you would in D&D. What do you think about leveling the character itself as a future for Stern Pinball machines?
    18:42
    That's not what I like about pinball but i totally get why people like it and that's where i'm like that's an opinion-based thing like i think the geometry issues with dnd are like a global problem but i think that the progression stuff is like up to the player like if you like being able to jump back in and get further and actually get to a wizard mode like people that are like not amateur but people that aren't sitting playing pinball four hours a day that want to see what they find a wizard mode in a game is should be able to do that and stern added that by the addition of like you know like Monster Zero, not Monster Zero, but you can go straight into the main wizard modes in a few games as a fun challenge thing.
    19:20
    So I get it. I think that's fine. But that doesn't fix the geometry of a game. No. No, it doesn't. Alright, well you made some good points. You haven't swayed me yet. You're right about the dungeon.
    19:35
    The game should be Dungeons or Dragons. Somebody said that to me recently. And that's a really good point. That's pretty funny. I dig that. But I do. I still dig the game, and it does well on location. That thing's printing money.
    19:51
    Absolutely. I've heard every arcade saying that it's just like hemorrhaging quarters in the best possible way. Yeah. I'll be honest. Part of me is just butthurt. Like, I really wanted D&D to be awesome. And then after jumping on it, like, I wanted Brian Eddy to come out with, like, a big win because, you know, his other games were getting criticized in ways that I didn't think was, like, super, like, I don't know. People seemed to really shit on Venom, and they really didn't like... I mean, Stranger Things is just Attack from Mars. But his other games were receiving a lot of criticism, and I was like, these are kind of fun. I don't get what all the hate is. Yeah, I quite like Mandalorian, honestly. Sure. I enjoyed... Michael from Dry doesn't like it, and I haven't asked him why, but I'm curious. He's on record saying he hates it. It's like the biggest thorn in his side for the whole franchise.
    20:39
    No. No, you need time. He needs more time on that machine. That's all. Just more time. This needs more time. It's much more fun than you really think, especially when you delve into those rules and understand that you want to bounty hunt and you want to do all these different things and light your multipliers and then get your multiball and then do some modes and then do multiball.
    21:05
    Stack the hell out of it, Jack. I'm curious to see how the code's going to develop for these games. Same with Kong. But Kong's super fun right now, right out of the box. I love Kong. I'm not a stern hater. I think that I want these games to be great and Kong's awesome. It's so much fun. I dig it. I dig Kong. Yeah, I'm having a really good time on Kong. I'm starting to really learn it and they're constantly updating it, so it's been a hell of a lot of fun. What do you think about them, these companies releasing pinball machines that just aren't ready though, when the code is just not there? yeah it's this is a this is a problem in the industry i talked to david was on my podcast david vaness from barrels of fun and uh there's problems where the games like are being released this problem is like twofold right it's one it's that pinball machines are software now they're not like they were in the 80s and 90s where it was more of just a matrix of of on and off switches Like, this is a lot more going on. And because of that, the modern way of developing software is to release it and then patch it to get it to the point where you need it to be. So there's two argument standpoints here. Where does it need to be, right? If it's not released and people aren't playing it on a large scale, how do they know where the game should go? and you can look at games like jaws where like i don't think jaws would be where it is without people playing it and saying like hey this is not fun or this is fun and they need that feedback right so where do you want a game to be when it comes out is a better question and for me i think like a game should have all of its modes right i think that there should be at least two multi-balls yeah you know but where is that line and i think it's different for everybody so certain people are tolerant of games that come out broken or like code life if you want to call it that versus games that are like feature complete.
    23:03
    So our community hammers on this and part of it is rightfully so. The games are not complete and then what happens is a game that isn't complete starts falling in price because it's been six months. It's been a year. And they're not at 1.0.
    23:27
    But I think that's great because then you have the opportunity to pick a game up for cheaper. Sure, economically. If you're buying games, it's not a bad move. But you're also picking up an incomplete game hoping that it is going to get there.
    23:42
    Yeah, I mean, nobody's making you buy a fucking $8,000 to $13,000 pinball machine on day one. Stern's business, here's what is a bigger issue. Stern's business model is based on FOMO. 100%. They are setting it up to make people feel like they need to get on board to find out and play the latest game. They've got the pro version, which goes out to operators for the most part and as a more budget-friendly for people. They have the premium version, which is going to go into homes, and they know this. So they make the premium version, the last one that's produced. They put the LEs out first to try to bait people that are like me that want to stream it or have disposable income and want to be first so they can do braggy rights or whatever. And then they do the pro versions for the operators. So, like, you think Stern isn't aware of this? Like, they know what they're doing. Yeah. And because of that, it won't change. It just won't. No. Because it makes money.
    24:37
    That's right. Right. I mean, we want them to make money, right? We're not about that. But Stern is a business. They're supposed to make money. That's the whole point of running a business. This isn't a charity.
    24:48
    And you can't make new pinball machines and buy new licenses with gratuity or promises. So they need to be able to show projections and make money and then be able to do it. So you mentioned that pinball people in the community are upset about that. And that's true. But pinball people love to have a strong opinion on stuff. and I think that if Stern was more transparent about when code updates were coming through roadmaps, if they were more transparent on release timelines for their games, that you're treating the consumer with respect by showing them that you care about their feedback even though you are a business. And they just don't do that now. Look at Uncanny X-Men. How many people own an Uncanny X-Men and are being like where's my code?
    25:32
    Well, all of them. absolutely but do you think that that's that's fair like as a as a consumer like i feel like they should at this point after god how has the game been out a year like how long has the game been out it launched right before expo right last year last year so that would have been october like just before october right okay so it's been out for six to nine months and you know there's been very little progress on it I would be furious as a consumer but also like why did I buy the game when it wasn't complete there's the rub I've been doing a lot of nodding at you Jeff today and you're making a lot of sense because you buy it because you love Jack Danger you like the theme and you like the way it shoots and you hope that the code is going to get there. And it has to get there. Right? It just has to.
    26:39
    If they dropped it at this point, it would be awful. I think so. I think it would be awful to the designer, the whole team, and everyone. They need to fix that. They need to get more what's going on in the future, make it more playable that way so that we know what the hell we're doing rather than just starting modes and multiball. but to your point like you know is jack danger the game plays great like oh you know whether you like the theme or not like it it's fun to shoot it's it's super flowy it's got all jack's weird little loopy loop shots and misdirections where balls like so flying back at you in ways you don't expect like it's a game that deserves to be finished but every game should deserve to be finished it's like yeah yeah you know i said this to ko on uh from quarter drop arcade he wants Godzilla and King Kong to talk to each other and play modes against each other like NBA Fast Break. I said, if that happens before X-Men is completed, people are going to lose their mind. And he's, you know, I think I'm really right on that, so sorry about that, buddy. I don't think they're going to do a hybrid thing. As cool as that would be, I want to live in a pinball world where that's where things go down, but I don't think that's Stern's future for Stern Insider Connect at all, but that would be neat. It would be neat. I think eventually the future is going to be downloadable content and DLC, and if they don't do it, it makes no sense. I also agree. They're just making a mistake. It makes no sense to me. I harp on this almost every damn podcast, Jeff, because it makes no sense. As a gamer, okay, give me a mode. Let me beta test the new code for you. as a Stern Insider Connect for $5.99 a month I get the beta test code I couldn't agree with you more that it's going down the road of DLC and it's a dangerous road the pinball community needs to stand up for that before it becomes an issue you're already seeing it now there's two Sterns hoppers that are $1,000, $2,000 or whatever to have stuff happen in your game it's in Jaws and it's in D&D now for a character that you get to unlock by purchasing a topper. What's the difference? The messed up thing about that is that if you look at video games, because this is the closest comparison, video game market changed their model to provide a free game and then charge you for the services afterwards. If Stern wants to send out free pinball machines to everybody, awesome. I'm on board for DLC, but you're not. You're charging $10,000 for a pinball machine and now you're nickel and diming people for more. I still paid $500 for the console, and I paid $59 for the game, more than likely. Not just, you know, not Fortnite and such, but, you know, Call of Duty. But there's live service games where you don't have to pay for it, and you can choose to buy in other stuff. Totally. There's plenty of companies. I mean, Bethesda is like the most horrendous company at this. them and Paradox are two good examples of a company that charges full price for a game and then charges so much more for content that, again, based on the fear of missing out principles that like, you know, well, if you don't have the expansion pack, you can't play with your friends. And it's like, well, I better pony up another twenty or thirty dollars for it. And it's like it's predatory practice. And it's so not what pinball is about. I know I know this, but if you give me an opportunity to pay a hundred bucks and I'm going to get something really, really cool, I might do it. I'm just saying that I am not, I'm weak, Jeff. That's really what I'm saying.
    30:22
    I'm weak. I'll do it. And I won't yell about it. So we need people like Jeff in this hobby that are going to take the mantle and say, hey, this is enough because Jamie's not. Because I'm just going to do it.
    30:37
    Look, if D&D was a better shooting game and they started releasing campaigns as DLC, but they were, like, meaningful. Like they really completely changed everything about what the adventure felt like and stuff. Like there's an argument for value there. Right. But if you're adding like, for example, like, you know, you saw that they had this like magic sword that you could like instantly kill the boss with. Right. If you're preying on people's lack of skill and then you're like, hey, if you give me two dollars, you can get this magic sword that can like absolutely destroy this final boss. And you can then see the end of the game. Right.
    31:10
    There's that's starting to edge on the world of predatory business practices. because you're using people's lack of skill and then want to see something and then charging for it. That's messed up. Don't do that. You're making some really good points on the T-chart here, but I'm going to pay the $2.
    31:30
    Sorry, Stern's never going to sell me another pinball machine after you put this online anyway. No, yeah, they will. Distributors don't care.
    31:39
    I'm trying to get Kyle. I've been having a lot of issues with my Stern game, So I've been BFFs with most of Stern's customer support for the last couple of months.
    31:50
    But Kyle said that he would like to be on this. If they'll allow him to be on the podcast, he'll be on. And I think that could be a fascinating discussion. What is it like? What is dealing with customer service? And what does the back end of that look like at Stern? I'm going to find out if they'll let me. I think that's a great podcast, Jeff. That's a fantastic podcast. And look, they all try their best. They're not trying to put garbage out like HomePen and then hope. you're not going to say anything right i mean i guarantee you they're trying their best but when things get moved pinball machines break and they get f'd up in transit and sometimes it's totally true and i've said a thousand times on my podcast like you know people that make the people that make pinball machines aren't trying to make a bad game they're not trying to piss off their consumers they're not trying to pick ips just to upset people like you know people were really upset that barrels made dune and it was just like man come on they're doing it because they think that they're doing this cool they had an opportunity for the ip acquisition and they're trying to make a game that people that like dune would like like it's they want to make a great game yes i i literally know almost every person there and i guarantee you they're trying their damnedest okay they're they want to make a good game you know so the only company i can think of that doesn't care if they make a good game is maybe American Pinball. That's not because they didn't try.
    33:13
    They picked up a lot of talented people. Steve Bowden was doing rule sets for most of their games and Steve's great.
    33:20
    Those people love and care about pinball. They do. God bless them all, Jeff. This is such a fun hobby. I absolutely love it. I can tell you're having the time of your life, man. I could tell. This has been a recent obsession for sure. Like, you know, ask my partners and everything. I just have gotten obsessed with trying to do pinball stuff. And it just because I totally love talking about pinball playing pinball interacting with people that are new to pinball We had some people that jump on the stream because they found it for some reason or another For example the pinball category was messed up for a while which that was my fault full disclosure but only because I was trying to add a description to it. So we had a few people that jumped in when we went to the hot tub category, because as a way of fighting back Twitch messing up our pinball category, I started streaming on a bunch of weird categories. Not a good idea, by the way. but we had a few people that didn't ever be exposed to pinball and by the end of it they are totally all in like we got one guy who started running games and is now looking for a godzilla 70th to buy so that's what i just want to get more people in the hobby get more people in the hobby that don't have this hair that is this color okay that's important okay silver fox what are you talking about no no no no that's my wife likes it it is what it is but i'm just saying you know So we need some people that don't have this and that have hair. So that would be great. The younger generation needs. Every time we had an event at the Wormhole that there were youth, they loved it. They got addicted. That's awesome. Because it's, and it was interesting to me the games that they played the most of. But when we see them at Eureka Heights and we see the younger generation, they gravitate towards the first quarter. The first dollar is a theme that they know. Oh, my God, I didn't know Pulp Fiction made a pinball machine. I didn't know Dungeons and Dragons pinball machine. You got to get that second dollar. That's the key.
    35:28
    And you're not going to have a pinball person like me stand over them all the time saying, look, here's what you really need to do. So that's the barrier, right? is they don't know what to do. They don't know that the inlanes do this and that does that. Because these games are very, very complicated now.
    35:48
    So that's going to be a tough barrier sometimes. It's like, how do you get more people in? How do you get the gamers in? We need more content to those people. We need more reach out.
    36:02
    So I think that that's Stern's next. I don't know if you saw the acquisition of the marketing IP person that they posted like a while ago. I got to talk to him a little bit. Yeah. So that guy came from Vivendi and some other companies that kind of purchased IPs for, I'm going to mess up some of this. So don't quote me on this. But from what I remember, they were responsible for rights acquisition for a number of companies that were doing crossover stuff with younger generation games. I think it is possible. We've seen a lot of rumors talking about Pokemon this and that. Whether it's going to be Pokemon or not, Stern is trying to dip into crossover IPs with younger generational stuff. And I think we're going to be seeing some weird games that aren't targeted towards us over 40 guys. And it'll be interesting to see. If they make great pinball machines, awesome. The theme is just a go to paint, you know? Yeah. It is. I mean, I could care less about Dungeons & Dragons. Never roll the dice. Never roll the die. But I like it. I like the game. Contrary to your beliefs, you haven't swayed me yet, Jeff. It's not fun, man. I like it. It's not fun. Pinball should be fun. Yeah, it is. It is. No worries. There's a lot of games that I like that other people don't. Sure. There's a ton of games that I like that people are like, what is this dude? I got addicted to Dialed In for a long time.
    37:33
    Dialed In is great. That's one of Jersey Jack's best. I think so too, but there are people that just hate it. They just don't like it. They get that EMP mode one time and they just freak out. It pisses them off so much, which it does because that's a bullshit mode. But anyway. Yeah.
    37:53
    I digress. So what's next? I mean, you've got Rachel Kale, you're interviewing a bunch of different people.
    38:02
    Are you thinking YouTube channel? Are you going to stay more with Twitch? Because you're doing stuff on Instagram and Facebook, right? Or mostly just Instagram? Yeah, no, Facebook, you know, I remember when I was finally was like, oh, God, I guess this is like actually happening. I should do some research on what to do. Like one of the main things was like they were like, pick a platform and stick to it. yeah and i was like all right well twitch twitch automates a lot of the output towards uh instagram and youtube so i was like i'm gonna like have shorts and stuff do that but you know i'm not i'm not i don't want to just be a twitch streamer that's up there getting angry yelling at their game and talking about what is good or bad about a game or just buying every new game so that they're available for people to see stream like that's not interesting to me i had started making videos of like slow motion play field like trailers like promo videos for games that i really liked or games that were in my collection and then the podcast it's just i don't know i want to make meaningful pinball content and i don't really have an answer for what that means right now four months ago which is when the channel started it was me twitch streaming my twilight zone now it's a podcast where i'm trying to talk to people that own pinball companies and yeah i want to talk to somebody that's on the line baking games. Pinball isn't defined by these designers and producers. There's other parts that go into pinball production. Whether it's interesting to a mass audience, I want it to be on YouTube so that somebody who is interested in how that happens or what goes on with that process, it's available to them. I had good luck with Twitch in the beginning. And then when I left the wormhole, I decided not to go to Twitch and just do YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.
    39:55
    But you had such an amazing practice run. I mean, it sucks that wormhole is not around, but you can run that gambit again now and onboard yourself. I mean, everyone already knows and respects you as a pinball person who loves to share their experience with it. And what I love about your content is like it's so it none of it feels manufactured. It's so genuine. I just I feel like I'm on, you know, following Jamie in his life and his experience through what he loves about pinball. And to me, I think people really resonate with that. I think so. I do. I think what they're getting is a clown that just fell in love with this hobby that used to be a pretty good golfer, for God's sakes. And my clubs are in storage. I'm not even joking. They're in storage. I am so addicted to this hobby and what it's done. So we got to talk about Harry Potter, okay? Yeah, probably should, huh? I mean, we should, only because it's coming out Thursday, and we're Tuesday. And so I'm thinking we just release this tomorrow because we're going to get hammered with the Harry Potter.
    41:07
    Yeah. It's content on Thursday. Other than Harry Potter. Yeah. Right? It's just going to be Harry Potter Thursday and Friday and over the weekend. So I'll put this out tomorrow. For sure. But it's got to be good, right?
    41:23
    No, hopefully it is. But why does it have to be good? I just think with spending that much money on an IP that's bigger than any IP that anyone has ever spent, they can't put out. I'm not a huge fan of Eric's other games.
    41:44
    Fair. Fair assessment to people. Pirates is good. Guns and Roses and Godfather, those are not fun games for Jim. I haven't had enough time on Godfather to give an opinion on that, but I have a ton of time on GNR, and I dig it. Now, I think GNR is a home game, no question.
    42:11
    All right? It is a game, multi-ball nutty. They fixed it with a little code update, but it is designed to sit in your house and delve, man, and just get into it. Right? Is it designed to go to the local arcade and put quarters in it? Absolutely not. Just not. you won't know what the hell you're doing it takes too long people bounce off of it because the the rules aren't like it's not immediately transparent on like what you should be doing and getting big scores is like kind of hard but you know you have to know how to actually build the jackpot value for each song modes that you're in and once you do that beautiful it's pretty awesome it's pretty awesome right you know and that's so but that's happened with venom too you know like people bounced off Venom initially because of not understanding the rule set so much for it. That game's so combo heavy and so combo driven that if you aren't doing that then you're not going to like the game. Your scores aren't going to be good or whatever.
    43:15
    But so I don't think money being thrown at a game necessarily is going to make it awesome. I think that it will have the most impressive technology and music and art package. I love the new cabinet art. I know people were absolutely pooping on it, but Mirabella, it's the company that produces all the visual assets for Harry Potter, and it's such a breath of fresh air. It doesn't look like a movie poster. Great. But this community, you know. So by the time this gets released tomorrow, someone will release the play field. Right? It's just the way it is in our hobby. I'm surprised. If it gets leaked, I would be surprised just because of since the franchise is what it is, I think they're really tight-lipped about it. But I don't know. If it gets leaked, awesome. Let's dive into it. Let's take a look. I don't like leaks.
    44:07
    I don't like them. Do you like them? I think the artists and everything, they have a plan. They have a launch date, which is Thursday. They have all these people that have busted their absolute ass to launch this correctly, and then some potato head gets a copy of the play field, puts it up, and then somebody calls it a rainbow sherbet. You know what I mean? It's just. Yeah.
    44:36
    But the devil's advocate to that is that, like, people love to play the speculation. The hunt for, like, game info before it actually releases is, like, almost part of, like, the pinball process at this point, right? It is. There's a bunch of them that do it, and they do well. You know, Nap does well. and Chris does well and Colin. The other side of that is that people kind of complain about how the process of trailers have been done and released for games. I do think that that could be improved a little bit, but people don't like the hype trailers. And it's like, well, but they work and they do drum up info and interest in the game. So it's like, yeah, I get that you're frustrated about it, but also it functions the purpose of releasing the game very well.
    45:23
    So Kinead was really against his the barrels launch for dune like almost unnecessarily so and it was just like okay like what do you want to have happen then and like also like what qualification do you have any opinion about that whatsoever like you know yeah that's why i lost my mind on them because i was just like come on man all right i have a such a great friend at barrels of fun that spent all day on that launch and work their butts off and get home and someone is in their house listening to canada's live reaction do you think that's the first thing they want to hear when they come home and right not at all and i talked to david about that too it's like i don't like people don't get that also like everyone that's working on these pinball machines like they have feelings and they're not trying to make a shitty game so like as soon as they get back and see your commentary rip them apart like that's gonna be so demotivating and it's for to service what like what are you getting out of it from telling somebody that their work is terrible brother i have no idea if you could figure that out you'll solve a lot of problems in our community yeah i don't know i don't think there's a solution to that i think it's human nature but For some people. So Thursday we'll see the gameplay trailer and then we'll see the featurette.
    46:50
    Yeah, I would imagine so if it follows JJP's previous release stuff. So that'll be fun and I hope it's a banger for them. I really do. They need a banger.
    47:01
    Agreed. I think I've bounced off JJP games. I just don't really like them for the most part and it's not because, like I think Elton John's amazing. I don't really like music pins. I thought Avatar's layout and everything was really amazing, but I just don't care about Avatar enough as an IP that I want to have it as a product in my home. So I don't care about Harry Potter. There's a bunch of reasons why I'm not going to get one. But I do really want it to be an amazing game because I want pinball to be more successful for everyone. And, you know, yeah. So the theme does nothing for you. You're not a muggle. You don't love it. You're not a Hufflepuff. You don't give a rat. I'm not. I think they're fine movies. I just think it's a retelling of the Star Wars story. I mean, it's literally about a kid that has parents that aren't really their parents and then goes to an old wise man that teaches them how to use magic, and then he goes and saves the world from a big bad guy. I mean, it's like, it's Star Wars. And Star Wars is also a bunch of other film stories, you know? Yeah. It's the same story that, you know, it's Dune. It's a lot of different things, right? Totally. damn it Jeff do I not love those damn wizards and uh which is great there's nothing wrong with loving Harry Potter no shade on anybody who loves Harry Potter yeah I don't really love the creator very much but uh that's a whole other topic and uh you can go on the Collins Facebook and you can see that discussion it's a pretty simple topic she's a transphobic piece of shit she's a bad person she is she's a bad pinball person she's a bad pinball person unfortunately there's a lot of bad pinball people and uh i just i just hope that as a community we could get get over the the the person that created it and just enjoy a really awesome pinball machine that i hope brings more people to this great hobby yeah i think it's up to everybody's personal opinion to make a decision about that it's not the first time creatively people that are not awesome have come out i mean Look at Kevin Spacey. It's like, well, do you want to watch a Kevin Spacey film now afterwards, or do you separate that and enjoy the filmmaking and the story that is that character? And I think that answer is different for each person. I think for some people it's going to be a big issue, and don't buy it and don't support it. Awesome. That's great. And for other people, they're probably not going to care. They just want a really great pinball machine. You know, you do you. Yeah. Very, very well said.
    49:30
    What else do you want to talk about? I've got nothing else for you, brother. I think we've hammered it on. for about six minutes. We can't go out on that note. That's such a negative note. No, it's so negative. You're totally right. You're totally right. All right. Let me see what else. Yeah, I don't know.
    49:47
    I'm curious. You know, I would love... Wormhole was such an amazing spot that I'm sad that it never really hit. Oh, you're going to try to get me to tell about what happened there? No, I know. I don't want to talk about that on the podcast. I expect this to be edited out. No, no, no, no, I won't. It breaks my heart. And it just it just does. But I am so in love with pinball and so in love with the Houston community that I just want to continue to create content and to showcase these great people and to showcase these great arcades across America and all these great things. I'm so addicted to it well that's why I was so bummed out about it and you never know man you just never know what could happen down in the future right but when personal things happen they just happen and you just you could either sit back and whine about it or you can go and go alright no worries no pasanada it's like you asked me about doing the stream thing that so hard but like man running an arcade it like that same concept times like a million know you got to service games on top of being a streamer like i didn have to do much more work we had phenomenal techs and john spades and and great people that that handled that side i could just be the face and the goofball and stay in my lane right i can't even yeah i can't replace a rubber dude Okay. I'm sorry. I can't. I can show you. It's pretty easy.
    51:18
    I'm not that bad, but if a flipper needs a rebuild, Jamie's not the guy. I know my lane. I know where I should be, right? I don't change my own oil. I don't know how to do it. All right? I go to 30-minute oil, and it's done. Five-minute, whatever the hell it is.
    51:33
    Yeah, but you can't pull up and put your pinball machine in there for 15 bucks and get it fixed. No, but thank God. I know a lot of people. Thank God. And they're very generous. They let me borrow their games. And so, you know, I only own one game.
    51:51
    That's it. Bowen's like that too. Dude, I respect that. I mean, that just shows that you enjoy and can go to on-location places for pinball and be involved in community more than anything. I've noticed that the people that own one game are active in the community about going to, like, bars and arcades and whatnot. as opposed to like you know crotchety old men like me that have a bunch of games and hide in their homes no i've just been an always i've always been an outgoing dude right and so i like going out to the community i like going to your guides and i like going to play pinball uh i have no problem spending a dollar it i might even save money if i would just buy some of these that i am addicted to right now but like evil dead i couldn't even get an evil that if i wanted one right now and it's so damn great that uh i've been putting so much dollars in the evil dead have you played evil dead a lot i love it it's great it has broken a few times on on tilt so we haven't been able to put as much time as i wanted into it but the times that i got to play it it's just spooky absolutely knocked it out of the park and i'm so glad to see a smaller like i hope harry potter is good because i want more pinball machines but the companies that need big wins are not jersey jack and stern there's Turner, there's Barrels of Fun, there's Spooky, we didn't even talk about Predator what are they doing? they're dropping are they trying to drop the same time or do you think they'll drop next week?
    53:23
    I don't know why are you going to release a pinball, do you think Predator is going to have any chance standing up against the largest IP in the history since Star Wars? no I don't know, but I don't know, man. I don't know what they're doing.
    53:40
    I'm not a marketing expert. I don't know, Jeff. But I think Predator could be pretty cool. I want to play it. I'll tell you that much. I hope it's going to be pretty cool. I didn't get into a lot of the 80s. I grew up overseas, so I didn't get into a lot of the 80s stuff until I came back to the States. I was watching Pink Panther in Arabic on TV instead of a lot of these films. So when I got back to the States, I kind of binged through it. So, but yeah. So, yeah, you didn't get to see the crap that we went to see in the movie theater and thought that I just rewatched Predator just two weeks ago. Just because I knew it was coming out and I'm like sitting it up. I can't go to bed. And let me watch this. The sound is so bad, right? if you rewatched it now the cheesiness of the score of predator is so bad so bad oh but that's it's alan sylvestri isn't it hold on i don't know i'm pretty sure it's sylvestri it's just cheese whiz and the dialogue is cheesy whiz but it's great it's yeah it puts you back into that 12 year old kid that went and got to see a pg-13 movie and just think that this is the coolest shit in the world, right? I mean, but... Who cares if the film's not good, right? Because the pinball machine is... I would imagine that they have all of the assets, because Alien did, right? I think Alien had almost all the... Right. Well, Alien didn't have Ripley, and when Highway released... I guess Sigourney Weaver didn't give her likeness to them. It's probably too much money. And then when Pinball Brothers bought Highway's license, if you will, and redid a Ripley edition and it's much better. So Predator is Alan Silvestri. So, I mean, if you'd like Back to the Future, same composer. Alright, sorry Alan, but it's a little cheese whiz when they're in the jungle and I'm hearing... I told David this, you know what theme I want to see? I want to see a Conan pinball machine. Really? Conan's got the video assets, Conan's got the... Dude, Basil Palidorus? The score is amazing. Think of Starship Troopers. Oh, my God. I would buy a Conan pinball machine in a heartbeat.
    56:01
    I can't get into it. What is best in life? Jamie, what is best in life? I don't know the movie enough to quote it. Oh, my God.
    56:11
    It was lost on me. Like I said, not everybody agrees with what pinball machines are like. That's great. That's why there's so many options. I know. And I wish them luck. Honestly, I swear to God, I wish them luck. And I hope it's not an Abba re-thing. and I hope they don't just use all the ABBA helicopters and try to stick it on the upper right. I hope that... Can you imagine if they just painted Predator stuff over the helicopter? That's what HomePen would do. That would be amazing. It's going to be a wide body. They said that. Okay, good.
    56:43
    Agreed. I think Stern should not be afraid to make a wide body, personally. But JJP's got that covered. There's plenty of other companies doing it. Yeah, there's plenty of other companies. I don't like wide bodies because I'm a streamer and it's a pain in my ass to make my rig bigger.
    56:58
    Wait, do you have to move your legs for it? No, I used to. Didn't you get Carl's? I used to, but I fixed that with Carl's design. But my first design. Yeah, Carl's frame. Yeah, I have the same one and it's big enough for that.
    57:12
    We're building something really badass. I'll leave it at this, right? We are building something really badass for Eureka Heights because they've got these credit card readers to the right of a lot of the machines. And I can't use the Carl Tom slide over. I have to use an L shape for those that are wrong. You're going hangman style. I'm going. You got to buy a vowel now. I'm going. I'm going hangman and it's going to rotate. The top will rotate so that I can put it on one machine. I can stream the machine to the right of it or stream the machine to the left of it. That's pretty smart. Pretty smart people here working on this rig. Pretty good. When are you going to start streaming, man? If you're streaming on Twitch, please tell me you're going to stream on Switch because I would love to raid you. I know. I'm not streaming on Twitch. I'm only going to do YouTube. It's one button. You think I should use the YoloBox and stream on both and just create a Twitch channel?
    58:18
    You can do it. There's Restream. There's a bunch of services that do it. It adds a little bit of latency. With the YoloBox, I could do it with... Yeah, with the buttons. Then you can't do all the cool OBS stuff, like rewards and things like that. No, I can't. I suck at that anyway, Jeff. I never give everyone the rewards, and then it's like Hydrate or some bullshit, and I never know what to do. And I suck at the chat emojis. And so I'm not even going to mess with it. I'm just going to go to YouTube. It's just easier for me. Well, I mean, you're already doing good staying hydrated. You know, you've drank at least three or four times on this podcast right now. So you don't need someone to tell you. You know, it's funny. You obviously have your diet coat fixation. For me, it's Spindrift. Tyler White also is a Spindrift fanatic. We keep joking. we're going to try to get Spindrift to sponsor us. But, you know, maybe. We'll see. I have the same addiction. It's just Spindrift for me. What is Spindrift?
    59:20
    It's just water with fruit in it. It was thought I would stop drinking so much. So I started drinking water. Does it have caffeine in it?
    59:30
    No, it's just water. That's a waste of my time. It's carbonated water. That's a waste of time. You're wasting my time. I'm saying that's my poison. I get it. Diet Coke is yours. You got to bring that Diet Coke reserve. Where you're streaming, do they have an emergency Diet Coke supply? Are you set? Always. Cool. Always. I don't go anywhere. I'm going to be out for two weeks, June 18th to July 4th. I'm going to be in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. We'll end at this. Right. We talked about that. Whitewater rafting. We've both done that. It's so far. Well, so you've done it before. I thought I've done it before. I've done seven. Yeah, I did the lower.
    60:12
    So now I'm doing the entire canyon. Amazing. And jealous. The story, the joke is you order when you go through these, you go through an exploration company, right? You go through a rafting firm and they sent us the drink menu. Now, I barely drink alcohol very much. I don't drink that much alcohol. And so I used all of my drink tickets, if you will, for Diet Pepsi. I had to buy Diet Pepsi because they don't have Diet Coke. And I'm like so pissed off that I'm going to be spending 15 days in Grand Canyon with Diet Pepsi. And I begged them. What's weird about that? I'll pay anything for the Diet Coke. what's what's blowing my mind about that is that basically that that the big soda decided to go you know they they split up all the fast food restaurants between coke and pepsi and somebody was like you know we should we should get the whitewater rafting market yeah so there's only 20 of us going on this trip they own it what i'm pissed off but it'll be fine uh it'll be but i'm going to be out of pocket so i'm going to be downloading as much content as possible so i can listen at night and in the bottom of the grand canyon and have a ball and with my zens by the way we are sponsored by zen and uh i don't know what a zen is but that's a nicotine pouch oh cool dude i'm i'm hyped up all day long on caffeine and nicotine all day long dude i i plow through espresso i smoked for a long time i've switched vices now and like since then it's been a different a different road yeah i i like that different road as well but my mom listens so we can't talk about that uh my friend jeff thank you so much i i when you first reach out to us via instagram i said to colin alchheimer i said i gotta get him on the podcast as soon as possible because he's gonna be too big and then he's not gonna want to come on my podcast because i think what you're doing quality wise, video wise, audio wise, top notch. And then I love what you're what you bring into the hobby. Thank you so much, Jeff, from Dirty Pinball. Where can people follow you, brother?
    62:32
    I mean, I'm the first the first off, man, I really appreciate that. And like I you were one of the first inspirations, you know, on top of all of the classics and greats, you know, I'm talking about Bowen and Jack Danger and all that for trying to get into streaming. You opened the door. You invited me to be on the Wormhole podcast when Wormhole was still a thing. Yeah. And I appreciate the faith that that you have in me in that regard. But like, I'm not trying to be big and I'm not not doing this for numbers. I'm if people enjoy pinball. I know that's not what you're implying, but I just want people to know that. Like, no, that's what I I know that that I think that we need more genuine people in the hobby. There are so many bullshit artists in this hobby and I've had it with them. And when you find someone genuine that has the same passion as you have, I can't help. but spend an hour and three minutes with that person. Right? I just can't. I appreciate that. I'm tired of looking at billion score posts on Reddit. And honestly, that frustrated me so much that I was just like, I can't believe that our pinball is just billion score posts. Like, why is there not more original content? And that's what I'm trying to fill a hole. I'm just doing it to try to make Reddit a better place. You're doing it. God bless you. I've never been on Reddit pinball because I heard it's too much. It's a horrible place. Horrible, horrible place. I can't even. I have a tough time with the comment section on my podcast and such. There's always one. There's many people out there. You've got to really have a thick skin when you start doing this. It sends me into a tizzy.
    63:59
    I lose my mind, and then I call Ralph, and I text Cale, and I call Cale, and they're always telling me the same thing. Why are you even reading this? And then someone will do the same thing to Ralph, and then he calls me, and I say, why are you even reading this? and it's cute that you guys have this like therapy structure set up well you know we've become very close friends through this and the pinball roundtable i remember your stern sorry go ahead no no the pinball roundtable we're going to record next week and uh it it's just been a lot of fun and uh yeah the stern when we go to stern i just gravitate towards those clowns right I'm just going to hang out with them because it's like a reunion for me.
    64:44
    You guys have a great chemistry, too, man. That's what I was going to say is like the Stern broadcast. It's just like I feel like I'm watching three people that like really care about the hobby and aren't there to just like pitch whatever Stern's latest game or whatever. No, I was at Stern, but it really was about Stern. Yeah, it wasn't like a show fest, you know, and that's why I think people like that. So and that was on the damn Yolo box. Shout out to Yolo box extreme. That was, I think, an ultra. that was able to stream that. Nope. And easy, right?
    65:14
    Yeah. I mean, maybe. I'm going to find out. I'm going to be asking you about that. Yeah. I have surpassed Ralph's knowledge, so I don't even waste his time anymore asking him questions because I have delved into that box so much that there's things that we need to do, and hopefully they listen and they can allow us to draw on the screen, allow the web interface to get a little bit better. and chat. Integrating it with OBS would be nice. Yeah, you know how OBS you can use chat, right? And you can display the chat so when they re-watch it, the chat is live with what you're doing. Can't do that.
    65:54
    Weird. It's not available yet, dude. Not yet, right? No, but I'm going to stay on them just like all the X-Men people are going to stay on them and we'll get what we want, which is a better future for all of us. Pinball. Exactly. No, you're absolutely right.
    66:13
    Anyways, to answer your question for finding me, it is Dirty Pool Pinball. I can't believe you're calling me Dirty Pinball or Dirty Pool. Dude, I called you Dirty Pinball all day.
    66:23
    I know. That's okay. I wasn't going to call you out. I figured you can cut this out when you get to the end. How the hell did I cut out Dirty Pinball? It's one of the best Easter eggs in pinball.
    66:35
    It's Dirty Pool Pinball. of course I know this I watch you and follow you and I've listened to every podcast and I've been calling you dirty pinball what an asshole I'm not an expert I don't know what the hell I'm doing and I just love this damn hobby and I love talking to you dirty pool pinball on Twitch on Instagram Kale I've really enjoyed this and thank you so much for taking the time well done Yeah, I'm on Instagram, Dirty Pool Pinball. I mean, I try to keep it pretty much the same for all the platforms. It's Dirty Pool Pinball on YouTube, Dirty Pool Pinball on Instagram. It's Dirty Pool Pinball on Twitch. Come down, hang out, be part of the cult. Awesome, dude. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. And good luck, man. Thank you, man.
    67:27
    All praise the great pyramid. Bye.