Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • AActivity
  • +Health
  • ?Guide

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 6 - Godzilla Bash

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·33m 27s·analyzed·Jul 25, 2018
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

CGC announces Monster Bash remake; indie Mafia machine debuts; Stern-Spooky Godzilla licensing drama surfaces.

Summary

Special When Lit Podcast Episode 6 covers Chicago Gaming Company's official announcement of Monster Bash as their next remake, discussion of a new indie pinball machine called Mafia by Team Pinball at $7,500, and significant industry drama around Stern allegedly acquiring the Godzilla license that Spooky Pinball had been pursuing as a dream theme. The hosts also discuss Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle streaming on July 30th and the failed Dutch Pinball GoFundMe campaign.

Key Claims

  • Chicago Gaming Company officially announced Monster Bash as their next pinball remake after months of delay (originally planned for Texas Pinball Festival in March)

    high confidence · Ken reads official Chicago Gaming Company Facebook post confirming the announcement

  • Stern Pinball has reportedly acquired the Godzilla pinball license that Spooky Pinball was actively pursuing

    medium confidence · Ken describes this as 'rumored' and notes Stern's policy of not discussing licenses until release; Charlie Emery's Pinside post confirms Spooky was pursuing it

  • A new company called Team Pinball (formerly associated with Highway Pinball) released Mafia, a modern electromechanical-style pinball machine priced at $7,500 with a 10-inch LCD backglass and limited to 100 units

    high confidence · Ken provides detailed specifications: one-ball game, timed modes, 10-inch LCD, street-level theme with no ramps, and the $7,500 price point

  • A Godzilla movie is coming in 2019, making the timing relevant for pinball licensing

    high confidence · Bill mentions 'There is a new Godzilla movie that's coming out in 2019' and Ken confirms seeing previews

  • Spooky Pinball has previously pushed certain titles back to Stern because 'it was the right thing to do,' per Charlie Emery's Pinside post

    high confidence · Ken reads Charlie Emery's direct quote from Pinside: 'I've literally pushed titles that came here back to Stern because it was the right thing to do'

  • Jack Danger (Dead Flip) is streaming Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle on July 30th

    high confidence · Ken states: 'spooky has announced that on july 30th jack danger dead flip will be streaming alice cooper's nightmare castle'

  • Dutch Pinball's GoFundMe campaign for Big Lebowski pinball machine failed, closing just short of the €400,000-€500,000 goal at approximately €800 raised

    high confidence · Ken reports: 'the goal was at 400 or 500 million uh euros... i think they were just under uh 800 euros' (note: likely 800 euros, not millions, based on context)

Notable Quotes

  • “Clearly keeping secrets is not our specialty. Luckily, making awesome games is. You guys caught us. We officially confirmed the next game is... Monster Bash.”

    Chicago Gaming Company (official Facebook post, read by Ken)@ 2:53 — Official announcement of Monster Bash remake, the most anticipated Chicago Gaming Company release in months

  • “They, meaning Stern, are the big fish and they'll get whatever they want and whatever they go after in most cases. We were flapping our gums about Godzilla long before we were a company, so kind of hard to hide our love for that title now.”

    Charlie Emery (Spooky Pinball), quoted from Pinside post@ 18:04 — Candid expression of disappointment and frustration about losing Godzilla license to Stern; reveals long-standing passion for theme

  • “If that's just business, then I guess we just learned a lesson. I've literally pushed titles that came here back to Stern because it was the right thing to do. But hey, that's just business at Spooky.”

    Charlie Emery (Spooky Pinball), quoted from Pinside post@ 18:16 — Suggests Spooky may have made reciprocal business concessions to Stern in the past, implying feeling of unfair treatment

  • “I think at the very least, Charlie would have, if the movie bombed or not, he would have liked to have been able to kind of stamp his company name on a Godzilla pinball machine.”

    Ken@ 22:03 — Ken articulates the non-monetary value to Spooky of having a Godzilla game—brand prestige and dream fulfillment

  • “Stern's in the business of getting the big licenses, okay? And you know this, I know this, and they are in the business of producing these pinball machines in record pace, getting them out the door.”

    Ken@ 20:22 — Frames Stern's business model as license acquisition and high-volume production, justifying their competitive play for Godzilla

  • “At $7,500, though, I think you can only kind of set your expectations at making about 100 of those.”

Entities

Chicago Gaming CompanycompanyKenpersonBillpersonStern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyCharlie EmerypersonTeam Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Chicago Gaming Company officially announces Monster Bash remake after 4-5 month delay from originally planned Texas Pinball Festival announcement in March

    high · Ken reads official CGC Facebook post confirming Monster Bash as next game; post states 'super cool features are still our little secret' hinting at enhanced features

  • ?

    machine_intel: Chicago Gaming Company Monster Bash remake with unspecified new features expected; hosts speculate about topper, large DMD, shaker motor, and possible code enhancements

    high · Official announcement with cryptic language about 'super cool features'; hosts discuss expected feature parity with Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness remakes

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stern Pinball rumored to have acquired Godzilla pinball license; Spooky Pinball was actively pursuing same license as a 'dream theme'; timing coincides with 2019 Godzilla movie release

    medium · Charlie Emery's Pinside post confirms Spooky pursuit; Ken notes Stern doesn't discuss licenses publicly; context of upcoming 2019 movie provides licensing motivation

  • ?

    industry_signal: Potential tension between Stern and Spooky over Godzilla licensing; Charlie Emery suggests Spooky has deferred deals to Stern in past but may not have received reciprocal treatment

    medium · Charlie's quote: 'I've literally pushed titles that came here back to Stern because it was the right thing to do. But hey, that's just business at Spooky.'

  • ?

    product_launch: Team Pinball (indie manufacturer) launches Mafia, modern electromechanical-style pinball machine at $7,500 with 100-unit production limit; 35 units coming to US market

Topics

Chicago Gaming Company Monster Bash Remake AnnouncementprimaryStern vs Spooky Pinball: Godzilla Licensing DisputeprimaryTeam Pinball's New Indie Machine (Mafia)primaryPinball Streaming and Jack Danger / Dead FlipprimarySpooky Pinball Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle StreamsecondaryBoutique vs Big Manufacturer Business DynamicssecondaryPinball Machine Pricing and DepreciationsecondaryManufacturing Bill of Materials and Production Economicssecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Positive sentiment around CGC Monster Bash announcement, Mafia innovation, and Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle hype. Negative sentiment focused on Spooky's disappointment with Godzilla licensing loss and Dutch Pinball's failed fundraising. Neutral/pragmatic acceptance that licensing competition is 'just business' despite sympathy for Spooky's position.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.100

0:00
This special when lit pinball podcast is sponsored by our friends at Two Brothers Artisan Brewing and their pinball pale ale because nothing goes better together than pinball and beer. Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the special when lit pinball podcast starts now. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to episode number six of the special when lit pinball podcast. I'm Ken. My co-host is Bill. We're going to be talking pinball today, and as I like to do as we start the show most
0:31
of the time, I like to check in with Bill and see how his week's going. Bill, what's up? How are you? We are good. Just came back from vacation. Nice little getaway up to Wisconsin. Nothing too crazy, not too elaborate. Yeah. Nice. Good times. Stop over at Spooky Pinball? I did not make it that far north. Play some Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle? Did not make it that far north. Okay. It was all about the three-year-old, you know, taking her swimming, so it was a good time. That can turn into a bad time real fast, as I know I have a three-year-old as well.
1:02
Yeah, it got interesting quick at some points. It's okay. You're back, and you're sane for the most part. Correct, yeah. Not wise to take a three-year-old who's in the middle of potty training on a trip like that. I will let you guys imagine the rest. Yes, I can totally imagine the rest. You ready to talk some pinball? We are ready to talk pinball. And we have to do one correction on the air. So on the last podcast, I referenced a movie, My Cousin Vinny with the Change Jars, which I was wrong. One of our listeners corrected me, and it was actually My Blue Heaven.
1:35
Yes, I did remember seeing that message posted by Toyota Boy on Pinside. Yeah, so he gets extra credit for that one. So when we get a keychain, you know, we get the first three. You get one, I get one, maybe he'll get the third. That's right. We'll split it up evenly. At least we know we've got a listener that actually paid attention to what we were talking about. So maybe you did it intentionally to see if you had user feedback. So congratulations. We had one. That's good. One's better than none. Hey, you got to start somewhere. Yep. So breaking news this evening, earlier this evening, Chicago Gaming Company has finally come clean.

Ken@ 9:27 — Commentary on Mafia pricing strategy and its implications for market penetration and collector appeal

  • “The bill of materials on doing 10 machines has got to be upwards to $5,000, $4,000 to $5,000, I would assume.”

    Bill@ 10:09 — Insider perspective on manufacturing costs for small-run boutique machines, explaining Team Pinball's pricing and profit constraints

    • Monster Bash
    game
    Mafiagame
    Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
    Attack from Marsgame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Jack Dangerperson
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Two Brothers Artisan Brewingcompany
    Pinball Expoevent
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Pinbergevent
    Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
    Toyota Boyperson
    Dead Flipperson
    Highway Pinballcompany

    high · Ken provides detailed specs: 10-inch LCD backglass, one-ball game, timed modes, street-level theme, no ramps, limited to 100 units total

  • $

    market_signal: Mafia priced at $7,500 positions it competitively against Stern Premium base model (~$7,500) and Chicago Gaming remakes (similar price range), targeting collector scarcity appeal

    high · Ken's analysis: at $7,500, comparable to Stern Premium new in box, Chicago Gaming standard + $1,000+; only makes sense for collectors focused on scarcity

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Estimated bill of materials for 10-unit production run is $4,000-$5,000 per machine for boutique electromechanical pinball games

    medium · Bill's industry estimate: 'the bill of materials on doing 10 machines has got to be upwards to $5,000, $4,000 to $5,000, I would assume'

  • ?

    content_signal: Spooky Pinball arranging professional stream of Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle with Jack Danger (Dead Flip) on July 30th to build pre-release hype

    high · Ken announces: 'spooky has announced that on july 30th jack danger dead flip will be streaming alice cooper's nightmare castle'; hosts recommend viewers watch on Twitch

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Ken's attitude toward Alice Cooper theme shifted dramatically from dismissive ('I couldn't care freaking less') to enthusiastic after Spooky's gradual artwork reveals and hype building

    high · Ken: 'when the theme was announced i was like alice cooper i could not care freaking less' but 'now...i really want to play it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Godzilla licensing situation being actively discussed on Pinside forums; Charlie Emery's response post indicates community awareness and speculation about Stern's competitive tactics

    high · Ken references Charlie's Pinside post; hosts discuss whether Stern's move was 'shady bully business' vs standard business practice

  • ?

    business_signal: Dutch Pinball's Big Lebowski pinball machine GoFundMe campaign closed, failing to reach €400,000-€500,000 goal; raised approximately €800

    high · Ken reports: 'the GoFundMe page has closed. It has stopped just short of the goal' with approximately €800 raised vs €400,000-€500,000 goal

  • ?

    event_signal: Speculation about whether CGC will reveal Monster Bash at Pinberg (upcoming weekend) or Pinball Expo (mid-October); timing relevant to production readiness

    medium · Hosts discuss: 'what show is coming up next that they would show it at?' and debate Pinberg vs Expo timing relative to production line readiness

    • 2:07
    And they've announced officially that their next pinball machine, their next remake, is going to be? Monster Bash. And for those of you that have been waiting a while for this release, it seems like it's been forever, right? I mean, it was supposed to be Texas Pinball Festival in March, and here we are almost going into August, and they're just now announcing it. Yeah, almost four and a half or five months later. But you know what, though? I mean, with what they said in their post that the game is going to be enhanced from the original one,
    2:37
    and I'm excited to see it, especially with what they did with the Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness. They're great remakes. I'll read the post, which was posted on Facebook. This is from Chicago Gaming Company. It reads, Clearly keeping secrets is not our specialty. Luckily, making awesome games is. You guys caught us. We officially confirmed the next game is... Monster Bash. Thankfully, the super cool features are still our little secret.
    3:09
    Stay tuned. Stern reference. Stay tuned. For the official game announcement, we're pretty sure it will blow you away so bill i want to ask you this monster bash as a remake is already pretty cool um you don't have a lot of monster bashes that are available and when you do they they tend to come with a high price tag their last couple releases you had the colorization and kind of the the reanimation of the dmd on um medieval madness remake and then you had the extra
    3:41
    large DMD on Attack from Mars, which also had new updated kind of animations. So what can they do now? And I want to add the topper on Attack from Mars, arguably one of the coolest toppers ever to be on a pinball machine. How can they one-up themselves? They've set the bar high, I think, coming off of Attack from Mars. What can they do to wow everybody? What's going to blow everybody away? What can it be? I mean, first off, let's just start looking at the machine.
    4:12
    Right off the bat, they've got to come out with a wicked, wicked topper like they did with Attack from Mars. Right off the bat. I would agree with that. You need a cool topper. You know it needs to come with that extra big DMD. Yes, I would agree. Shaker motor, more than likely, right? Shaker should be in there for sure. And visiglass? Yes. That would be a nice feature. It would be a nice feature. I don't know that they're offering in visiglass. They did not on Attack from Mars. at least it was an upgrade, I believe. I'm trying to remember if mine came with one.
    4:43
    I was an Attack from Mars LE owner, and I think I did put a Mizzoglass in there. You put it in. Right, exactly. As far as code, I'd love to see if they make any changes to the code and the animations, but the game itself is pretty awesome. Bingo! Is it code? Do you think that they've added maybe another wizard mode or another mode or a couple modes? Is that a possibility? I'm sure anything is a possibility. With what they said, it wouldn't surprise me. So I'm really looking forward to seeing it. I'm just curious when they're actually going to show it.
    5:13
    Because what show is coming up next that they would show it at? Well, what, Pinberg is this weekend, right? And that was Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah. And then after that, I think you kind of transition into Expo here. It'd be kind of cool if they revealed it at Expo, but, you know, at that point, it might be a little long, right? Because you're looking at October. What is that, middle of October for Expo? Yeah. I mean, it would make sense, especially if they're gearing up for the factory to produce those. Because, I mean, literally you show the game when you've literally got all the cabinets sitting on the line getting ready to go out the doors.
    5:48
    And interestingly enough, Monster Bash originally was supposed to be Monster Mash, right? And then there was a licensing fallout or licensing quagmire, so to speak. They changed that name to Monster Bash. And now, coincidentally, you've got rumors of Munsters that Stern may or may not be working on. Nobody's confirmed or denied that. That's an industry rumor. Is it possible, in your opinion, to see both of these heavy hitters kind of colliding at the same time at Pinball Expo?
    6:20
    Could you see a Munster bash and a Munsters going head-to-head? Or does it make sense to stagger those releases because they're so similar in theme? It probably makes sense to stagger. I mean, it would be funny, I'm curious to see if that's true with Monsters coming out. It would be real interesting to see which one comes to market first. At this point, I think it would have to be Monster Bash would be coming out first. You would think, but, you know, I mean, it's been, you know, four or five months since they talked about bringing it out anyway.
    6:51
    So what's another two more months, you know, or three more months at this point? Pinball's full of surprises. We had another announcement that was made, what was it, last weekend, and that was a release of Mafia, which is a new pinball machine that's being released, by three individuals that call themselves Team Pinball. And I guess these guys, and Gail, because it's two guys and a girl, worked under Highway Pinball for a while, not with the Alien Project. So they've got pinball experience, they've got pinball backing.
    7:23
    This is a modern-day electromechanical kind of style machine. It's a street level. There aren't ramps. No subways. I think I read it's a one-ball game, and it's a lot of timed modes. There's a 10-inch LCD in the back glass that kind of blends itself in with a newspaper to kind of replicate headlines on the screen. The price point is $7,500. and I guess the question that I have for you Bill at the $7,500 price point is that something that
    7:58
    you let drain or is that something that you save and and try to come back and snag that machine I don't have an elaborate collection per se with a lot of high-end titles I can't see spending that kind of money on that particular game because you know that'd be like giving up two or three machines for that specific pin I don think it out of the realm of possibility of pricing especially if they only making I think it probably priced pretty well because there going to be those collectors out there that say hey I need to have this doesn mean a whole lot to me
    8:32
    Got to get it. Got to get it. So I don't think that they're going to have a problem selling 100 of them. But for certain buyers, I don't think that we'd be jumping to buy it just because of it's more, you know, it's a new company, it's a new product, it's a little dialed back as far as features go. Right, and it's the scarcity, the collectability of the numbers being released. They have 10 machines that are set up and ready to play, and I guess most, if not all, those are going to distributors
    9:04
    in order to be kind of demo machines, and then they've agreed to make 100 or they're going to limit it at 100. They've got a second release that they're already in the works on. I thought about this at $7,500. And let me preface this by saying I think it's awesome that there's a group of pinball enthusiasts that have kind of come together and have made a new machine. I mean, new pinball is always fun. At $7,500, though, I think you can only kind of set your expectations at making about 100 of those.
    9:34
    And again, for the collectability factor, when I think of a $7,500 pin, I think of a Stern Premium right away, new in box. Yeah. And when you look at the – you hit the nail on the head, I think, with the feature set that you're getting with the Mafia versus something that's new in box or even a Houdini. Or you're right there at like probably a standard edition of the Chicago Gaming remake. TNA, and you've got some change left over. TNA, and you've got over $1,000 left over. I think it's going to be interesting to see how that pans out if they do sell 100 of them.
    10:09
    I think what a lot of people probably fail to recognize is the fact that is that the bill of materials on doing 10 machines has got to be upwards to $5,000, $4,000 to $5,000, I would assume. So then now you're looking at distributorship and making sure that they get a cut of their profit. And you're looking at staffing yourself as far as giving yourself a salary. You're looking at servicing these machines, and you're looking at developing another machine. Well, and here, even through this one on there, you're going to need parts on the shelf, too, for these games.
    10:41
    So when you sell 100 games, you're still going to need parts on the shelf for when stuff breaks. Right. And let's go back one second, if you don't mind. Okay, so they built a pinball machine. What does that entail? So literally, they had to build a cabinet from scratch. They had to build the play field. They had to get all the artwork. the fact that they were able to pull all of those things combined is incredible all in itself now the feature set you know that's just preference on what people like you know some people like a lot of ramps some people like multiple multi balls is that the other that's all just personal
    11:13
    preference but you know the fact that they were able to pull that all together is pretty incredible i agree it's it was kind of caught everybody by surprise or most people by surprise there were some people that were in the know and had previous knowledge of what was happening but this just kind of popped up out of nowhere for us and uh i was excited to see it i'm still interested to see what happens it's not something that i would personally want to invest 7500 in but i'm probably not the demographic that they're looking for i don't have expendable income to buy that kind of a pinball machine uh to your point you said earlier you know at if you're going to get something in that price
    11:48
    range for us because we're not high-end collectors and we're not looking at scarcity of pinball machines, I think it just makes sense for us to, you know, go a different avenue and buy something else. But, you know, for one of the hundred that are owned, it'll be interesting to see the collectability factor moving forward and see if those machines maintain value or if they increase or decrease. So, and to add to that, so when you buy like a Stern, Premium Pro, LE, you know, it's not going to be worth exactly what it's worth the day you buy it.
    12:20
    And you're going to take a hit just like a new car. On most, not all. I mean, there's some pins that fly up in value. I mean, Trons are still holding a premium. Yeah, but every machine depreciated when you opened the box up for the most part, right? Correct. The general norm. And you know we're going to lose $500 to $800. That's an easy swallow on something this large of a purchase. If you buy a game that's not trying true, you can be open to losing a lot more. And it has happened in the past.
    12:50
    Right. I've had a general rule of thumb. As soon as you crack open the box, you lose $300 or $400. And then for me, I just kind of figure it depreciates at about a buck a play. If I played it 300 or 400 times, maybe I'm $300 or $400 down. So who knows? Good rule of thumb. And when those games actually do come to the States, I think there's 35 that are coming to the States. I would love to actually see one and play one because it looks like a fun game. It looks cool. Interesting promise. I'd like to play it too. And then for us being in the Chicagoland area, the Mafia is a pretty prominent, what would you say?
    13:26
    Well, here, you know, the Mafia to Chicago is like pinball to Chicago. Right, and like pizza to Chicago and hot dogs to Chicago. It's part of, like, the culture of the city and as it, you know, progressed. So if anybody would like to go ahead and send one of those pinball machines over to the Two Brothers Pinball Pal-El Studio for some extensive testing, review, and pinball streaming, which we should probably consider doing some pinball streaming one of these days. We should. We would happily go ahead and take on the burden, or not the burden, but the opportunity to play that machine.
    14:01
    And stream it. And just going back, I mean, and here's how close we were to the Mafia in general. obviously Capone was in Chicago but here in St. Charles he actually had a hideaway that was blocks from one of our houses and they turned into a restaurant Capone's Hideaway Steakhouse very cool a lot of history in downtown St. Charles not to bore people but a lot of those stores are connected with underground tunnels all of them lead out to the river for quick getaways during Prohibition
    14:31
    so it's pretty cool in other news So there's a little bit of pinball drama in regards to this Godzilla license that has been, you know what, to be rumored to have been acquired by Stern Pinball. And the reason I say rumored is that Stern, just for company policy, they don't discuss pinball licensing present or future until a game is released. And I can completely understand that. And neither does like Jersey Jack or anyone else from what I know, right?
    15:03
    Yeah, so I suppose you don't talk about your licenses. A lot of that stuff gets leaked, whether it's controlled leaked or not. Who knows? Because with speculation, we kind of have an idea what might be the next few pins for some of these manufacturers. The reason I wanted to talk about the Godzilla license for just a second was when Charlie Emery, the owner of Spooky Pinball, and his family, they started Spooky Pinball like Godzilla was a dream theme of theirs. And it was something that I think Charlie was pretty passionate about one day having that opportunity of getting that license and making his dream theme from his dream company come true.
    15:42
    And as a lot of people will understand already, Spooky Pinball already kind of has that homegrown kind of awesome story where coming out of nowhere, they're making these machines and they've got a huge following and they sell out on what they produce or what they manufacture. So that license was not able to be acquired by Spooky Pinball, which was disappointing. But now the rumor on the street is that potentially Stern Pinball has scooped that license up and may or may not have enabled Spooky of acquiring that license.
    16:15
    So the question I have for you, Bill, is this. if stern does have the license and spooky was actively trying to pursue the license is it not fair for stern to grab charlie's theme his dream theme or is it just business as usual and you roll with the punches well it's just business as usual i mean this isn't unicef this isn the boy scouts everybody in this to you know to make money otherwise you know there no point in doing it now granted i mean I like to hope that all the manufacturers are trying to put out the best products they can and put the best features and the most into their games
    16:51
    But at the end of the day, it's still a business, and they all have to make money. Do you think there's any type of, not business ethics, but like a professional courtesy where Stern would be like, you know what, we have enough on our plate. maybe we should let Charlie grab this one and run because it's a dream theme. There is a new Godzilla movie that's coming out in 2019, so it is something that will be more pertinent next year. So I can completely understand both companies wanting to acquire that license. Do you feel that there might have been any shady bully business going on there,
    17:27
    or what do you think about that? You never know. You know, that's a tough one. And you'd like to think that all pinball companies have a lot of camaraderie and they all congratulate each other. But like I said, at the end of the day, it's still business. So if that was actual truth that Stern got the license, you can understand why they wanted it. Because if there's a movie coming out and you don't want your competitor to have it, it makes complete sense. Agreed. I do want to read a post that was posted by Charlie on Pinside in commenting with this Godzilla license.
    17:59
    And he says, well, it's impossible to want that title more than we did. They, meaning Stern, are the big fish and they'll get whatever they want and whatever they go after in most cases. We were flapping our gums about Godzilla long before we were a company, so kind of hard to hide our love for that title now. He goes on to say, if that's just business, then I guess we just learned a lesson. I've literally pushed titles that came here back to Stern because it was the right thing to do. But hey, that's just business at Spooky.
    18:30
    Such is life and Spooky's fine. Disappointments are going to happen. We move on. So I found that post to be interesting because it seemed like he was able to vent some frustration. And at the same time, it seemed like he was almost saying that he's thrown stern a bone when it's come to that because it was the right thing to do. and I can only speculate that he might have been saying that maybe he didn't get the return favor, especially with Godzilla. Again, that's just kind of how I read it. I don't know if that's his intention of what he was saying.
    19:02
    That's what it seemed like. And it seemed like he was just genuinely disappointed and hurt because he really wanted to do that theme. Which, I mean, here, it goes back to the theme of pinball machines. There are some themes out there that are just awesome themes. The game might not be the greatest, but because you love the theme, you really have the machine. you know um so i mean i mean i think that one could just you know be kind of both personal and business maybe he's just blowing off some stress too i mean you get something that you think you're close on it doesn't pan out it's frustrating i know i can totally see both sides of this i can
    19:35
    see where charlie's like you know hey he's not a direct competitor in stern and in regards to volume because stern is putting out considerably more machines on a yearly basis than charlie is Now, you also have to take into consideration that I don't believe Charlie's trying. He's not trying to be stern. He's trying to slowly build his business until he finds that sweet spot. And that's kind of it. So right now, he's not looking to take down stern. He's not looking to, you know, dominate the market.
    20:07
    And stern has a lot of the other, you know, the market's figured out. I mean, they've got games going to, you know, every country in the world, it seems like. So, I mean, they have that distribution set up to be able to get those games out there. How many more games can you solve for the licensor? I'm glad you said that because that's kind of where I was going. Stern's in the business of getting the big licenses, okay? And you know this, I know this, and they are in the business of producing these pinball machines in record pace, getting them out the door. So, I mean, if Godzilla is something that is projected to be something that's going to be popular in 2019
    20:38
    as far as like a movie release and there's going to be a lot of marketing, it makes sense for Stern to try to acquire that license. maybe they double dipped a little bit where it's like hey we need to get this license and hey we're going to send a message by doing so does that kind of give charlie the respect that hey you're not the cute boutique pinball company anymore you're cranking out 500 games per release you're in our market share so hey we're the big boys on the block you're gonna have to knock us up you know
    21:10
    Is that a possibility? There's so many ways to look at it. Well, here, I mean, it's a movie. You've got to assume that it's coming out next summer at some point, whether it be early, mid, or late summer. Have you seen the previews for the Godzilla? It's crazy. No, I haven't. It's awesome. So, I mean, for those that are saying, I would not want a Godzilla theme, well, maybe because Godzilla hasn't been something that you've seen in a long time, but Godzilla seems to evolve every single time there's a release. So, this could be crazy. Yeah, it'll be interesting.
    21:41
    You know, and I just think back to history with, you know, other movie titles. You know, T2, that was a blockbuster movie. That game sold out awesome. Johnny Mnemonic, they thought it was going to be a blockbuster hit with Keanu Reeves, and it tanked, and the pinball machine didn't do as well. So, I mean, you can kind of go, you know, just because it's based off a movie doesn't mean the movie's going to be that great either. Right, and I think at the very least, Charlie would have, if the movie bombed or not, he would have liked to have been able to kind of stamp his company name on a Godzilla pinball
    22:11
    machine. Is it unfortunate that it's not happening now? Yes. Could it happen in the future? Absolutely, it could. I mean, licenses expire. They only go so far. Am I mad or disappointed in anyone at this point? I'm really not. I'm glad that Charlie's passionate about it. And you know what? It shows that he does care that he didn't get that license. If he didn't care about pinball and didn't care about his company, didn't care about his dreams and the dream theme, he would have brushed it off. But he's like, hey, you know what? wish we could have had that we didn't get it and i can respect stern too it's like hey this is
    22:41
    something that's on our radar we're going to potentially make this game you know next year when this movie's released we got to acquire the license so i mean it's hard to be mad at anybody in in what they were trying to accomplish yeah i mean at the end of the day it's just business and i guess while we're on that topic of spooky pinball alice cooper nightmare castle is their next release people have been super anxious to see this game properly streamed or played there's been some play videos that have uh you know not really showed the potential buyer what this pin's
    23:13
    all about and spooky has announced that on july 30th jack danger dead flip will be streaming alice cooper's nightmare castle i think that's i'm looking forward to seeing it yeah we're gonna definitely have to watch that i want to talk a little bit about alice cooper nightmare castle obviously the both of us we haven't had an opportunity to jump on the game and when the theme was announced i was like alice cooper i could not care freaking less about alice cooper and what a waste and this kind of sucks and i mean that was my i didn't say that publicly but
    23:45
    i was like pretty let down no but now but you know what though i mean that goes back to the theme pulling you in you know if that was a chicago cubs team dude they would have had your money before they even showed a picture of it potentially but what i really liked what spooky did after announcing that they were making the pinball machine is that they leaked they leaked everything like in a matter that got me interested somebody that didn't want to have anything to do with an alice cooper nightmare castle i'm not i don't dislike alice cooper i if i never heard an alice cooper song ever again would i lose sleep i don't know probably not but the progression of
    24:20
    releases a little bit of playfield artwork here and a little bit of cabinet artwork there and here's the trans light and then it started building momentum and it got me really really interested. So now, whereas before, I couldn't really care less if it came out, now I really want to play it. And I don't have access to one now, so I'm really looking forward to seeing the Jack Danger, the dead flip stream, on July 30th. Oh yeah, we'll definitely have to watch that. I mean, the game really looks a lot better than I could have thought it would. I think they did a
    24:50
    great job with it. So yeah, now it's just about seeing it flip. And I want to take a second, too. For those of you that might be listening and you don't understand what a pinball stream is, You don know where to look at a pinball stream So there an there an app or website that called twitch and you go there and you register for an account And it essentially a website that streams And when I say stream it people that are recording themselves playing computer games or console games. And now it's become popular to stream yourself playing pinball machines. So you can actually watch somebody
    25:24
    live stream a pinball machine. And usually there's a camera on the play field. Then there's another camera that's on the back box for scoring and maybe there's a camera that's focusing on the player and his reactions and you get to see these in three different windows or four different windows depending on the streaming setup and you kind of get an overall experience of the pinball machine so for those of you that want to go ahead and check this out you want to go to twitch and i believe uh jack danger's twitch channel is dead flip and i think it's d-e-a-d underscore f-l-i-p
    25:56
    and it should come up. You should see it in the search. Click on that. Now, if he's not streaming at the moment, if it's not live yet, you can still go ahead. You can go to his channel because that's how everything's separated into different channels. So dead flip would be your channel. And you can actually see archived video of just about anything that he's streamed, some highlight videos, things like that. And now you're kind of getting a little bit more of a wealth of knowledge as far as being able to see people play different machines, because he's not the only pinball streamer he's the pioneer and arguably the best yeah the most entertaining and
    26:29
    and has a ton of followers but there are other people that are streaming pinball now too so it's just a real cool way to take advantage of today's technology to get an idea to see these games before they even get out to the general public well one thing that's cool too is i mean he does newer games and he also does uh old games i mean we went down to the the one bar and he was doing uh Elvira and the Party Monsters? Yeah, I remember we went to Logan Hardware, which is like Logan Arcade in the city in Logan Square. Logan, Logan, Logan. It's easy to theme. But yeah, I mean, he's down there pretty regular.
    27:01
    He's got his own studio now where he's streaming his pinball machines in his collection. Does a lot of work with Stern right now too. So, I mean, he's kind of the industry go-to guy. When you want to go ahead and you want the public to see a machine be played professionally, first and foremost, you kind of call dead flip you call jack danger so july 30th spooky pinball is allowing jack danger to stream alice cooper nightmare castle i recommend everybody give it a listen or or watch rather
    27:32
    we'll be checking it out for sure for sure before we close the show i have to go back to the seattle seven i've been talking about the seattle seven they started the gofundme page for dutch pinball in an effort to help with legal financial obligations and with manufacturing bills with their new manufacturer, Zytec, for the Big Lebowski pinball machine. Bill, I don't know if you've seen this, and I hate to break this news to you.
    28:02
    Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm sitting down. But the GoFundMe page has closed. It has stopped just short of the goal. Really? Did they get close? well the the goal was at 400 or 500 million uh euros or no 400 000 or 500 000 euros euros i'm saying euros like people are eating food euros and i think they were just under uh 800 euros and i don't mean to mock these guys because i did invite these guys to come on the show or at least
    28:34
    exchange some emails just because if i can help get the word out there that makes sense i'll do it Yeah. And you would too. But, you know, we're not going to put ourselves out there and lead people in the wrong direction without knowing what's going on. I didn't hear back from those guys. I commend them for their efforts. They tried to help this company out. Ultimately, I think at this point, unfortunately, Dutch Pinball might be beyond a GoFundMe page. It's going to require some heavy investing. And I hope at some point it turns itself around. But for right now, I guess they're going to go into legal battle with ARA, who's still holding their machines.
    29:14
    And then it'll be interesting to see with Zytec. And you know what, Bill? Honestly, potentially nothing comes of that anymore. No. Whatever happens, happens. And, you know, I mean, it is a shame because that game is pretty cool. You've always spoken highly of that game. I will give you credit. Yeah, I do like the game. It's a shame what happened. but yeah i mean so i i guess time will tell as of right now time is going to stand still and there's nothing going on with dutch well yeah i mean to close this off you know i'm glad that the they kind of shut it down let nature take its course with this whole scenario because it does it
    29:47
    all needs to pan out to see what happens i'm not sure if that was if they voluntarily shut it down or if it just didn't fund in the time it was supposed to or they felt pressured i don't really know man it's it's just a mess the the whole gofundme concept is is interesting but it's just man it's just such an easy way out potentially for people that have made big problems or yeah there's a thread right now that somebody had on pin side and they were showing all the people that have started like gofundme pages for people that are trying to acquire supreme pinball machines
    30:20
    and some of the quotes are just hilarious it's like you know i have absolutely no money and And can you help me out and let me get $10,000 so I can get the Supreme Pinball Machine? First of all, you can't get a Supreme Pinball Machine for $10,000 anymore. What are they, $30,000, $40,000? So even if you do raise $10,000, you're going to have to settle for like a Mafia machine. Or a Wizard of Oz, Ruby Red. Like a T2, right? Like those would be your two. Right, you'd have to settle. There was one that was particularly funny, and I'm trying to remember what they said.
    30:53
    But it was, oh, it was, hey, help me, I'm just paraphrasing, help me raise this money, and I'm looking for like $10,000, and for anyone that gives me $2,000 or more, your first five games of Supreme Pinball is absolutely free. What a deal. Only $400 for three balls. A buck 33, $133 a ball. Yeah, is that what it comes out to? That's ridiculous. So, I mean, thank God I didn't have money because I would have jumped on that one.
    31:24
    Oh, yeah. I mean, I could see you just throwing two grand just to get a couple games on it. Right. It's craziness. So, you know what? Things are picking up in the pinball world here. So, we're getting some leaks. We're getting some releases, some news. That's refreshing. And looking forward to see what the next week shows. Hopefully, we see the Monster Bash reveal at some point. I'd be curious to see. I'd be curious to see the cabinet, too. Yeah, well, you're a carpenter. You're an expert of cabinet construction. Yeah, so anyone that doesn't know, Ken and I, we both dabble in pinball and arcades.
    32:01
    Ken is the arcade and pinball guy. I just do pinball stuff. And one of the things that I like to do is build pinball cabinets. So over the last winter, I built a Monster Bash cabinet, a scared stiff cabinet for someone that was going to paint it and decal it. But the Monster Bash was a full-till, painted, decaled, ready to go. That's right. You did that for somebody local. Yeah. I remember that. Do the graphics. Turned out awesome. So maybe we'll throw that up one day on the page. Yeah. It turned out nice. You did a great job. Yeah, it looked good. It looked good.
    32:31
    It does look good. But on that note, I think we'll call this Episode 6. Yeah, man. Let's wrap up Episode 6. Glad to keep it around 30 minutes for you guys. Thanks again for listening. We'll say that every single podcast. If you want to reach out to us and the show, you can reach us at our Facebook page, which is Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. And you can also email us directly at Facebook, or not Facebook, but Gmail, which is SpecialWhenLitPinballPodcast at gmail.com. Yeah, and definitely love the feedback. Whatever you do, don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball.
    33:02
    Hey, and if anyone feels like responding to this movie, quote 220, 221, whatever it takes, name that movie and maybe it'll get a keychain. One of my favorites. 220, 221, whatever it takes. All right. Everyone have a nice afternoon, evening, or day, and we'll talk to you later. Thanks, guys. We'll catch you in a few days.