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The Pinball Show Episode 178 BONUS: Dennis' Top 5 Greatest Pinball Machines Of All Time From Each Company Part 2 (Data East & Sega)

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·37m 12s·analyzed·Jul 12, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Dennis ranks top 5 Data East and Sega pinball machines, highlighting underrated titles and design innovations.

Summary

Dennis discusses his top 5 Data East and Sega pinball machines, ranking Last Action Hero, The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard, Guns N' Roses, Lethal Weapon 3, and Jurassic Park for Data East; and Apollo 13, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Starship Troopers, GoldenEye, and Baywatch for Sega. The episode reflects on these manufacturers' underrated legacies, licensing strategies, design innovations, and their cultural position in the pinball community.

Key Claims

  • Data East passed Williams in sales during the period when they started doing large movie licenses

    medium confidence · Dennis states he 'did an analysis once on it and saw where they actually topped the sales number, and it was after they started doing all the licenses.' This is presented as personal research but not independently verified in the episode.

  • Last Action Hero features the first crane toy in pinball and the first smart missile

    medium confidence · Dennis claims 'first crane I can think of' and 'it's the first time I can think of with the smart missile' but hedges with 'It might not be the first time.'

  • Apollo 13 was originally designed with 13 balls in multiball to fit the moon/space theme

    high confidence · Dennis explains the 13-ball multiball 'fit the theme. As loosely as possible' and discusses it was built as a two-flipper game that 'didn't make any sense ever.'

  • Jurassic Park's modified code (by Chad) significantly improves the game over the original code

    high confidence · Dennis states he 'had the modified code set' and 'played it both ways' and that 'Chad's code fixes a lot of stuff' and 'plays better' with the modifications.

  • GoldenEye was designed by Ward Pemberton and was likely his last credited pinball game

    high confidence · Host looks up and confirms Ward Pemberton designed GoldenEye, notes it's 'his last game' after checking that Mouse & Around was 1989 and GoldenEye is 1996.

  • Baywatch had a big display (large DMD) and included a back box topper

    high confidence · Dennis confirms Baywatch 'had the big display for the DMD' and 'actually had a topper' and mentions 'big display for the DMD which we mentioned earlier.'

  • Paul Ferris did the art for Mary Shelley's Frankenstein

    high confidence · Dennis states 'Paul Ferris did that art' when asked about the artist's identity.

  • Lethal Weapon 3 was one of the cheapest Data East DMD games available, originally around $1,000

Notable Quotes

  • “I think this is Daddy East's attempt at battling the Williams-Adams families of the world of Twilight Zone. Like they wanted to... there's a lot of similarities there with how much they try to pack into this game.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Explains design philosophy comparison between Data East's Last Action Hero and Williams' flagship competitive title.

  • “Even non-pinball people, you know a toy is good in pinball when non-pinball people remember an entire machine because of a toy... Countless people have told me that, and I'm always like, yeah, because it's a so-so game for hobbyists.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Describes The Who's Tommy's cultural impact and the blinders toy's memorable nature.

  • “They couldn't get the lightness of Tom Hanks. That was the only downside... They still got the bacon, though.”

    Host @ N/A — Humorous commentary on Apollo 13's licensing limitations and astronaut representation.

  • “This game might be why people say you shouldn't do browns. And that's why Dune was such a surprise.”

    Host @ N/A — Critical observation on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein's color palette and aesthetic failures.

  • “Sega is the stepchild of pinball machines.”

    Host @ N/A — Summarizes community perception of Sega pinball games as critically underrated.

  • “I would rather have Photoshop than that.”

    Host @ N/A — Expresses strong negative reaction to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein artwork quality.

  • “It's afraid... I can detect the fear.”

    Dennis @ N/A — References iconic Starship Troopers movie quote used in online gaming contexts.

  • “The ball's flying around and gives Sega its name of snappy, bouncy-ass games. You're not going to drain all the time, but you just ain't making a shot.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Characterizes Sega's design philosophy and gameplay difficulty balance.

Entities

DennispersonData EastcompanySegacompanyWilliamscompanyArnold SchwarzeneggerpersonPaul FerrispersonWard Pembertonperson

Signals

  • ?

    historical_signal: Data East pioneered aggressive movie licensing strategy in pinball and, according to Dennis' analysis, achieved sales dominance over Williams during this period, particularly in the 1990s.

    medium · Dennis: 'it was really Daddy East where it's like, let's get these big upcoming movies and try it. And Williams eventually followed suit. But Daddy East, it was during that time period when they started doing all the licenses, when they passed Premier on sales.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Last Action Hero features early adopter of crane toy and smart missile mechanics in pinball design.

    medium · Dennis: 'The crane, I think, is a really fun toy. First crane I can think of... it's the first time I can think of with the smart missile.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Baywatch uses four-flipper layout including shark flipper; Jurassic Park uses third flipper to feed T-Rex toy; GoldenEye uses multiple flipper positions for complex shots.

    high · Multiple game descriptions detailing flipper configurations as key design elements.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Dennis actively defends Data East and Sega as underrated, citing design quality and innovation despite community criticism.

    high · Dennis: 'they're underrated I really do but a lot of people just think they're they're shite and they're junk' and Host: 'is it fair to say that Sega is in the hobbyist community, usually bashed even harder than Data East games?'

  • ?

    product_concern: Sega DMD displays are noted as prone to failure, affecting secondary market value. Dennis missed opportunity to buy Baywatch for $900 due to failing DMD.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.112

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. All right, Dennis, the listeners want to know your top games of each company in pinball. We've already been through a lot of them, but now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty, to what I think are the – they have a – you have to have a certain taste for the Data Easts and the Sega games of the world and a taste that I generally kind of like. I really – I find myself enjoying – maybe they were because as a child growing up, these were kind of the games that were available to play on location a lot. so maybe I have a lot of built-in nostalgia there based on my age but I kind of like the feel of a and I like the licensing of Sega's and Data East there's I think they're underrated I really do but a lot of people just think they're they're shite and they're junk but I think one of the interesting things about Sega and Data East is especially the latter part of Data East onward is they were the first company to really broadly embrace licensing as a concept to play on that, to play on how it would do in the arc. I mean, not the first. I mean, obviously we started seeing Gottlieb do it once they were owned by what was it? Paramount. That's why you saw things like Charlie's Angels and the Hulk and stuff out of them. But it was really Daddy East where it's like, let's get these big upcoming movies and try it. And Williams eventually followed suit. But Daddy East, it was during that time period when they started doing that, when they passed Premier on sales. Oh, wow. Yeah, I did an analysis once on it and saw where they actually topped the sales number, and it was after they started doing all the licenses. That is interesting. Wow, I didn't know that. It was also where Premier stumbled and did the street-level games. But Premier, we're going to get to that one. Probably our next top five list, we'll go through the Bally Williams as well as the Gottlieb Premiers. And I'm going to chime in on the Gottlieb Premiers because I haven't done a list for those yet. Yeah, you've been quiet on those. Let's start with – let's go with Data East. Back in – Oh, okay. It was at the – predominantly the 90s, but late 80s? You could, yeah. I mean, yeah, by and large, with all the other ones we've done so far, when I was going through and initially coming up with my list, I tried to, for most brands, stick with the DMD era. Okay. So 90s in that case. I did not – well, spoilers. I did not do that with Gottlieb, but I did do that with everything else. So I won't go into early Data East, for example, so you're not going to be hearing Laser War and stuff out of me.

high confidence · Dennis remembers 'when I got in the hobby, Lethal Weapon 3 was the $1,000 DMD game' and notes it's 'still one of the cheaper DMDs you can get' today.

  • “When I first got in this hobby, which I think was 2012, there was a local seller with a Baywatch for $900. And I did not get it because the DMD was starting to display signs of failure.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Personal anecdote highlighting secondary market dynamics and DMD repair challenges in vintage Sega games.

  • “You've got the T-Rex toy coming down and eating the ball is really cool. And it only does it the first time, and then the rest of the time it kicks it out. So it's not constantly slowing you up like you might fear it would.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Demonstrates thoughtful design decision in Jurassic Park that balances spectacle with playability.

    • Chad
    person
    Jill Ballsterperson
    Last Action Herogame
    The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizardgame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Lethal Weapon 3game
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Apollo 13game
    Mary Shelley's Frankensteingame
    Starship Troopersgame
    GoldenEyegame
    Baywatchgame
    Multimorphiccompany
    Elwincompany
    Gottliebcompany
    Kamikowperson
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent

    high · Dennis: 'there was a local seller with a Baywatch for $900. And I did not get it because the DMD was starting to display signs of failure. At the time, I did not know of a source to replace a large.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Data East integrated movie themes into pinball design thoughtfully (e.g., Last Action Hero layout mimics Twilight Zone structure; Apollo 13 13-ball multiball matches mission theme).

    high · Dennis discusses how games 'tie in well to the movie' and 'fit the theme' through mechanical and rule design choices.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Lethal Weapon 3 remains one of the cheapest Data East DMD games, originally priced around $1,000 when Dennis entered hobby. GoldenEye had low production (2,200 units). Baywatch shows value volatility based on condition.

    high · Dennis: 'when I got in the hobby, Lethal Weapon 3 was the $1,000 DMD game' and 'they only made like 2,200 of these things' for GoldenEye.

  • ?

    code_update: Jurassic Park Data East version significantly improved by custom code modifications by community member Chad, making game more playable and enjoyable.

    high · Dennis: 'the game is better if you get the modified code set, which I did have... Chad's code fixes a lot of stuff... I played it both ways.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Sega games characterized by 'snappy, bouncy' gameplay with many stand-up targets (GoldenEye has 14, Baywatch has 12), creating fast ball action but potentially frustrating shot variety.

    high · Dennis: 'The ball's flying around and gives Sega its name of snappy, bouncy-ass games. You're not going to drain all the time, but you just ain't making a shot.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Apollo 13's 13-ball multiball is a gimmick that prioritizes theme novelty over gameplay balance in a two-flipper game, making it largely inaccessible in casual play.

    high · Dennis: '13 balls and a two flipper game didn't make any sense ever... it was a progressive activation thing so people didn't encounter... it's a gimmick that was the 13 ball multi-ball.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein widely criticized for poor artwork quality despite solid gameplay. Host suggests brown color palette may be responsible for negative reception.

    high · Host: 'Fuck, it's ugly... This game might be why people say you shouldn't do browns' and Dennis notes 'it looks like all the other junk data East Sega stuff.'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Ward Pemberton designed GoldenEye for Sega in 1996, likely his last credited pinball design. Known for flex save mechanics in earlier designs (Dungeons & Dragons, Hardbody).

    high · Host verifies: 'Ward Pemberton... Yeah, he did Riverboat Gambler with Williams. He did Dungeons and Dragons with Bally... GoldenEye... I think it's his last game.'

    • 2:57
    Oh, poor Laser War. Robocop. There won't be a Robocop in this list. No, sweet, gentlemen. All right. What comes in at number five, top five Data East pinball machines? For me, I went with Last Action Hero.
    3:11
    Oh, one of my favorites. I actually was relatively close to buying one of these at one point. It was on my short list of games to consider. We had one on location for a while. The crane, I think, is a really fun toy. First crane I can think of. We started to see cranes all over the place now. But yeah, really fun toy.
    3:35
    In a lot of ways, I thought it moved pretty quickly. It's just a two-flipper game. But, you know, you had that. You've got six ball multiballs in it. It's a pack game. This was a game that, yeah, came with a shaker motor, which back then, that was a relatively new thing. Magnets, kickback. Three. It had three electromagnets. So I figured you must like this game to some degree because it's got magnets. And the smart missile. It's the first time I can think of with the smart missile.
    4:01
    It might not be the first time. And it's got true Arnold in it. Yes. Speaking of our main episode with Predator, this was a time when you could get True Arnold for all sorts of things. And Daddy, I mean, Williams did it with T2, but Daddy East did it with Last Action Hero. Very campy movie that I thought worked well as a pinball machine. It always reminded me of, like, I think this is Daddy East's attempt at battling the Williams-Adams families of the world of Twilight Zone. Like they wanted to there's a lot of similarities there with how much they try to pack into this game. I think this is one of those where this movie, I don't think this movie did great. It's not really a respected film. But again, when you were if you were to hear about it, like, hey, we are we got this movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to star in it. Charles Dance is going to be opposite him as the villain. And you're like, oh, this sounds like it's a money printer. so and again Williams had the same thing like Johnny Mnemonic ended up not being a great movie but you would have thought on paper that it was going to be but I think this game actually turned out really really well especially I don't typically love one ramp games but this one I think works pretty well I wish that Sega would have come out with Jingle All The Way I would love that I think I've seen that once put down the cookie put that cookie down like out of love oh your wife's cookies with Phil Hartman All right, what's number four on your top Data East list? All right. For Data East, I went with The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard.
    5:36
    Now, Dennis, my top five Data East lists started out with number five being Last Action Hero, number four being The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard. I did not remember your order. I know. I knew you had Tommy on your list. Well, it's a really good game. It's a really good game. Both designed by Kamikow, incidentally. Although a number of people helped with Tommy. But just in terms of the blinders. Oh, what a cool toy. That's the always thing I think. Yes, what a really cool. Today, there are still people that love to go and play dollar games where they cover up the play field. It's a quasi-competitive thing. It's competitive in the sense that people are trying to win money. But you start blocking the play field with using dollar bills as blinders and whoever wins gets all the money. I think this is the inspiration for it three flipper game integrates the musical really well I only really know the movie not the musical version it was based off the stage production it just had that whole that toy was a really cool feature I always thought the game looked really interesting the plane's cool yes the plane which ties in with the plunge it's a good layout good rules It's a solid-ass game for that time. Couple ramps, spinner, yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's hard, too. I think it's pretty challenging. Even non-pinball people, you know a toy is good in pinball when non-pinball people remember an entire machine because of a toy. And I've had plenty of non-pinball people say, oh, I remember the Who game with the things that go over the flippers. Countless people have told me that, and I'm always like, yeah, because it's a so-so game for hobbyists. but non-pinball people remember that game because of that toy. Yeah. No, I never thought about owning this one myself, but when I see it at shows, I try and play it. Yeah, it's a cool soundtrack and all. What's number three? Number three is going to be a wide body, Guns N' Roses. Oh, okay. That's a good pick.
    7:39
    I had not – I was very late in my pinball career when I finally played the Daddy East Guns N' Roses. It was actually at a local collector's house, and I got some time on it. He had a very nice condition one. But you know what? They used the space really, really well on that game. I was really surprised. And so, you know, it's another three-flipper game, kind of like The Who, but as we know, it's wide-body. You've got three magnets in that game. You've got Vuck, Kick Out Hole.
    8:12
    I think they've got... I can't remember if there was any spinners on it. I don't remember any. But, yeah, the video mode stuff, But, I mean, even aesthetically, just really, really interesting because you have the two ramps. One's shaped as a G and one's shaped as an R. Oh, yeah. Like, very 90s thing to do and be like, hey, let's have this yellow G and this red R. But I feel like you use most of the play field. Maybe that's not true once you know the rules better. But, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff. You've got the little keyboard targets on the left and right sides of it. You've got the little kick-out hole in the middle, which kind of reminds me of Monster Bash in a way. But, yeah, no, I just think it was a pretty good use of the theme at a time when the band was actually very relevant. I think a lot of people would have GNR on their top five daddy East list. I really do. That's a good one. What about number two? For me, number two is Lethal Weapon 3. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. You know I mentioned Lethal Weapon in our main episode about an idea of something that Pinball Brothers could have looked at in terms of alternative licensing And right after I said it I remember there was a Lethal Weapon 3 but I was thinking back to the original Lethal Weapon But this is a lot of fun in the game. And these, I don't know, I haven't looked recently, but for a long time, for Daddy East DMD games, this was one of the cheapest ones you could get. This is in Last Action Hero. And I think actually Last Action Hero, actually, they passed this in price. Maybe because they made over 10,000 of these things. Yeah, when I got in the hobby, Lethal Weapon 3 was the $1,000 DMD game. Like, that's what, for $1,000, you could get this game. But, I mean, you know, it's, I just think that overall, it actually, from, you know, obviously you get, everyone picks Everybody Dance Now. But, you know, you get to pick your music at the start. Yeah, you got your little shooter skill shot. Playfield art is trash to the nth degree. That's very easy for you. Yeah, exactly.
    10:20
    Riggs' entire face looks like Nedry's hand from Jurassic Park. But you've got your ramp shot. The modes tie in well to the movie. It's got a helicopter. Let's not forget it's a little helicopter. It's got chopper. It's a simple game that is just so well-rounded. It's just a good game. Yeah, in a lot of ways, its layout reminds me a bit of T2, and I wonder if that maybe was some of the motivation. They were always competing back then, so it makes sense. Yes, there was always competition. But it plays fast, and yeah, it's easy to understand. And today, I believe it's still one of the cheaper DMDs you can get. So anyway, I think it was one of Data East's stronger efforts, in my view. I completely agree. So that brings us down to the number one spot, your top Data East pinball machine of all time. I'm struggling here because you have not mentioned what was on my list one and two. Neither one of them. What were yours? Could you remind me? Number five, I had Last Action Hero. Number four, The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard. Number three, Lethal Weapon 3. So we were in agreement on a lot of this stuff. I did not have Guns N' Roses in my list but had it right on the outside looking in. My number two and number one you have not listed yet. So where did you go, number one? Jurassic Park.
    11:41
    Okay, you've owned that before, haven't you? I did, yes. It just holds such a special place for me, and I'll let you go into it. I love this game. Yeah. Yeah, no, actually, now, I mean, the game is better if you get the modified code set, which I did have. I played it both ways, of course. But, yeah, Chad's code fixes a lot of stuff. But saying that aside, because I've played it in both configurations. I mean, it's not a wide body, but it's a three-flipper game. I know Elwin actually cited that he doesn't care much for this game around when his Jurassic Park came out. And I really like Elwin's Jurassic Park. But this is a fun game. The six-ball multi-ball is so cool. It's perfect. And it's actually achievable. You can get into it, not every game, but you can get into it. The three-flipper format where you have that third flipper to feed the T-Rex. The T-Rex toy coming down and eating the ball is really cool. And it only does it the first time, and then the rest of the time it kicks it out. So it's not constantly slowing you up like you might fear it would. The little captive ball to hatch the little baby dinosaurs. My niece was really little when I owned this game. This was her favorite game because she wanted to hatch the baby dinosaurs. Because it plays like a little lullaby. Yes, it plays a little lullaby. Even in this, it's a D&D. And she liked dinosaurs, too, so she liked to feed the T-Rex. You've got the two-scoop system going on there. The Whirlwind, that lullaby thing. Yep, yep, straight up out of Whirlwind, exactly. Only one ramp shot, but there's a diverter, so it can feed to two different spots. Kind of like Whirlwind. You've got the helicopter escape shot. you had to up past the uh up past the uh upper third flipper and then the mode based system which is straight out of adam's family yeah you're going in and it's like you're expected to go mamushka you've got you're waiting like a little stamp or whatever adam's family you're waiting for the knock like that but yeah i mean i just like you like you had different way you know okay you want to go ahead and try and do you like your tri-ball going for the t-rex or you want to go ahead and get your it's one of the greatest 90s wizard modes ever that system shut down or system reboot yes that's so cool yes i like i got to it a few times before i sold the game and i was like it was really cool timed mode uh to me i actually prefer this game's layout and approach to its own rules especially with chad's modifications to adam's family i think this is better i i can't I can see it. I really can see it. The only thing that's better on Adds Family is call-outs. But this had good call-outs, too. You couldn't understand any of them because of the terrible sound systems. But the Ian Freeze and all. Oh, yeah.
    14:34
    Welcome to Jurassic Park. And the opening with that score. It's so cool. Even the back of the game has a little banner that went, Dinosaurs ruled the Earth. I know because that was my first game I've ever owned. And so I modded the hell. I Todd Tucky'd that shit and had like an LED strip behind that little plastic banner. Man, I went clown puke all over that shit. And it really got me into pinball because I realized like – Oh, and the Raptor Rampage. Don't forget. It had the high speed. This is the first game I know of with that high speed kickback like we associate with Guardians and Iron Man. Yes, I love that kickback. And all that. No, it had that Raptor kickback. Holy crap, was that thing fast. You're making me want this game. I love Jurassic Park. I love it. So the one is wrong. This version is good. Well, yeah, they even they even pulled chaos into the new game from that chaos.
    15:27
    So the one game that I had, that was actually number two on my list. My number one is actually Tales from the Crypt. Didn't even make your list. I don't have enough time on it. OK, it's it's similar to the Who's Tommy, but better, I think. So it's it's really good. Really good. I know a lot of people really like it. Yeah, I think I've played it like once. I want a Jurassic Park. Anybody got a Primo, homies-only Jurassic Park? I'll pay too much for it. Please, I want one with that big old gaudy plastic topper.
    15:56
    Let's jump into Sega, Dennis. Your top five Sega games. Now, is it fair to say that Sega is in the hobbyist community, usually bashed even harder than Data East games? I agree. Sega is the stepchild of pinball machines. like yes i sega was i mean it's uh i i'd say it's a it's a well i mean i kept mine to dmdr with the data east games but it's a tighter time like we're not talking as many years as sega they spent a lot of time with the bigger displays and seemed to really lean into that as like their angle that they were going with because i think they rolled those out with um uh was it i think it was apollo 13 maybe that was the first one with the big screen i don't remember no it was uh they They did that for a... They did it with... Wasn't Maverick was the last one? They did it. Data East, and then they jumped over... And I think some were branded as Sega. Was that a big display? I couldn't remember if it was or wasn't. Mary Shelley's had the big display. Mary Shelley did. Baywatch did. Apollo 13 did not. Yeah, they did it for a lot of them. It's like they're...
    17:01
    Yeah, I don't know. Batman Forever had it. Okay, no. Apollo... Okay, no. Apollo 13 went back down to the normal size. The 128 by 32. And they went to the showcase head with Space Jam and Godzilla, the curved Lost World. The curved one with it. That was an interesting effect, yeah. I take it back. Godzilla did not have the – Godzilla was considered a showcase cabinet, but it didn't have the curved. It had like a weird Gottlieb head, American pinball side head. They did the curve with Viper Knight driving, didn't they? They may have done it, yeah. I don't remember. I don't know. Starship Troopers had the curved. But anyway, I've always encountered fewer of them than the – and maybe it was just production numbers were lower and such. I'm not sure. So what was number five on that list? Yes, as I'm rambling. I actually did Apollo 13 as number five. Good for you.
    17:58
    Good for you because that's one that didn't initially make my list. But since I've had more time on Apollo 13, I would gladly own one. I really like Apollo 13. Yeah. I don't have a tremendous amount of time on it. But let's – I mean, of all the Sega games, it's the gimmick that people most have heard about or want to experience. 13 balls at once. It's so ridiculous. I remember when Multimorphic put something in to do 14 balls on their game. And I was like of all the things you wanted to try and grasp what little attention you can out of whatever was going on in the market at the time This was not the path to do because the 13 balls was stupid with Apollo 13 but it fit the theme. As loosely as possible. Like the moon toy, that was cool. Sure, no. I mean it had that, the moon would grab the balls with an electromagnet so it had a magnet effect there. The shaker for the earthquake stuff was really cool like the satellite lift ramp thing this was never designed to like shoot a bunch of ball it was a two flipper game so 13 balls and a two flipper game didn't make any sense ever and it was stand-up galore uh only one ramp so a lot of it i mean it was really just built to let you do this one gimmick and that was the 13 ball multi-ball is a progressive activation thing so people didn't encounter like you go to a show you generally won't encounter it but i thought the theme integration with the moon in the back right and the rocket ship and everything else. It actually looks a lot better than many of the Data East games. Well, you still got to get through all the modes and everything. It's still got plenty to do, isn't it? And this was the one where they had gone back down to the smaller, more normal DMD size, and so it wasn't all about that anymore. It was going to be more about what we kind of thought of. They couldn't get the lightness of Tom Hanks. That was the only downside. Yeah, so we had to put the astronaut, he had to have his helmet on. It's him under the helmet. They still got the bacon, though. And then in the end, with the little match thing, we're going to the moon. Oh, and the little thumb to block the... It was the handle? Yes.
    20:07
    That's cool. What was number four? I like Apollo 13. Yeah. Number four, I did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. I hate that game. So we finally have a conflict. An ugly game. A lot of people like it, though. It is an ugly game. And come on, they put in the Edgar Winter song, Frankenstein. I mean, you pretty much had to.
    20:37
    Three-flipper game, one ramp. It was one of the auto-plunge games. But the Frankenstein toy, it throws the balls towards the flippers. Dislocated arms backwards. Yeah, that was kind of the cool thing they were trying to go for with it. Again, I just thought it shot decent enough to put it on the list. But I don't, yeah, just, I mean, you got that, again, they're kind of like, let's reuse the whirlwind. They only had the one scoop, but it's kind of in that same place as Jurassic Park over there on the left and such. And you've got your third flipper to do some of the art. So I feel like there was sort of a regurgitation in a way. But not a memorable movie in any capacity. I don't know if I've seen that movie. But I've seen it one time, I think. Maybe twice. Maybe twice, actually. But yeah, I was just kind of like, I'm going to be frank with you. I don't, and we kind of hit on it in the transition, but I don't think a lot of most of the Sega games. So this one almost has got in there because I rolled out so many that I do not care for. I thought this one plays all right. A lot of pinball people, if they're going to have to pick Sega's, they do go with Frankenstein because it's a bang for a buck. They're usually relatively affordable, and the game is packed. It's kind of like a Last Action Hero where it's got a lot of stuff going on, a lot of ball paths, and a lot of modes to play. I don't know anybody that's really gotten through all the modes. It's not an easy game by any means, but it's not too hard. It's just a well-rounded, good bang for a buck. But artistically, it's disgusting. Oh, God, it's so ugly. Fuck, it's ugly. I think this game might be why people say you shouldn't do browns. And that's why Dune was such a surprise. This game has a lot of brown. And it does not look good. It does not. It's horrible. The artist, it's like, that guy retired and was like, I really pulled one over on him. I had a whole career. Paul Ferris did that art. Did he? Yes. Oh, wow.
    22:39
    That is very surprising. because it looks like all the other junk data East Sega stuff. I'm like, oh, God, so bad. It's like I would rather have Photoshop than that. I do want to also note that, because I did not remember this, but I saw it at IPDB.
    22:59
    When it's in its attract mode, the display is cycling eventually because it's Sega. Sonic appears, but he's got the Frankenstein scars on his face. I do remember that. That's right. So that alone lets it be number four. It is. Yes, it was. Number three. My number three is Starship Troopers.
    23:21
    Which I think you also don't like. I don't like it. I had it as my number five, just out of respect of it being a good game. This has that marquee back box you were talking about. I love the film.
    23:35
    No, the film is very interesting. A lot of people, when the film came out, thought it was, I don't know, they misinterpreted what it was poking fun of. But anyway, it's a three-flipper layout where you have a second button to control that little baby flipper that's kind of part of the feed. You don't like it, but I thought it was very clever.
    23:53
    You know, you've got four multiball modes. They varied two-ball to four-ball, depending on which mode it was.
    24:02
    Multiball heavy. The out lane was the ball shooter lane on the right, which was an interesting thing, I thought. the brain bug on the play field. So ugly. It is, but the brain bug's ugly in the movie. It was fitting.
    24:20
    And so I always, this is one of the movies where whenever I see something like I reference Starship Troopers all the time and only in one way. If I see someone like back up, this is more of like playing video games online, like if I have a if I'm in an online, this is very nerdy of me, but like if I'm playing an online game and someone runs away from me, I will say in the voice chat, it's afraid.
    24:43
    Does anybody get that reference? No. No one knows. Well, I'm usually in a party chat. And so by now, yes, they know it's from Starship Troopers and it's the brain bug. When Doogie Howser puts his hand on it and says, it's afraid. That's right. I can detect the fear. So you got the ugly brain bug. Plus, you got the weird ships and stuff that are shaped. I mean, the toys are the, you know, they're shaped like the toys from the game. So layout overall, other than the flipper thing, I think it's actually relatively conventional. But, yeah, I just think, again, I don't love a lot of Sega stuff, but I actually think this one is one of Balser's best shooting games. Yeah.
    25:22
    You're like, no. You're like, how about no? I just can't ever get into that game. I understand. And I briefly thought, would I want to own it? And I decided, no, I don't. I don't want to own it. Yeah. No matter how clean one is, I just don't want it.
    25:39
    What's number two? Maybe I'll want that. Goldeneye. Oh, man. Our lists are different. I love Goldeneye, though. That's a fun one. Goldeneye, I tried at a Texas pinball festival. I had not played it before. I was like, holy crap. This is way better than I would have ever thought. Because all I knew about Goldeneye is everyone would joke about how it has that magnet.
    26:05
    Crotch wear. ball save that does crotch wear on Pierce. And so it's like all the play fields are damaged because of the magnet that would thrust the ball back up from the flipper gap, which was clever in and of itself. But the toy that caught my eye was when that satellite dish grabbed the ball. Yeah, that's one of the coolest toys ever. But again, not a wide body, two flipper layout, three pop up, you know, the usual thing that you normally have. Tons of stand-ups on this game. It's like I had to look at IDB. There's so many stand-ups. 14. There are 14 of those little fuckers all over the place. It reminds me of, is this a Jill Ballster? Who made this? Jill Ballster is in love with stand-up targets. This one is actually a Ward Pemberton design. Oh, Ward Pemberton, okay.
    26:50
    Yeah, so throwback. I knew he did some stuff. I didn't remember he did anything with Sega. He had done Riverboat Gambler with Williams. He did Dungeons and Dragons with Bally. Fathom is his most famous game, I would say. That's what I think it is. Yeah, he did Hardbody, too. He liked to do those flex saves. That's why he did Dungeons & Dragons and Hardbody, the flex saves. But, yeah, no, I think this might have been his – I think it's his last credited game. I'm looking real quick. No, he did Mouse & Around. He helped with Mouse & Around and such. So it's second to last, I guess. No, Mouse & Around is 89. This is 96. Yeah, this is his last game. Gold and I, you do get a lot of rejects because there's so many stand-up targets. The ball's flying around and gives Sega its name of snappy, bouncy-ass games. You're not going to drain all the time, but you just ain't making a shot. That's the problem I had with GoldenEye. It can be frustrating because, man, there's so many ball paths, and a lot of them are stand-up targets. Well yeah and you also got three ramps but the two on the left are super tight It tight It super tight But it had again art this one for Sega was okay. I like it.
    28:02
    And toy-wise, I mean, yeah, you had the tank, which is a really famous scene off on the left, and then, of course, the satellite dish is a big plot point. And it also has a helicopter, too, in the back left. That's a cool scene. Yeah, I think it's all right. And plus, the magnet to save the ball from between the flippers was a cool idea. Yeah. And at that time, that's when the hotness of Nintendo 64 Goldeneye video game was probably out. Yeah, they actually – but sadly, I mean, probably because this came out in 96, I mean, they only made like 2,200 of these things. There's not a big – I mean, compared to what we had seen in the Data East era, this was not a great time for pinball. Man, there's so many different ways you could go for number one Sega here. My list was Starship Troopers number five Number four Lost World Jurassic Park There's something I love about the difficulty And John Borg lay out there Number three I had South Park Just because I think it's One of the most approachable fun games In existence Number two was Batman Forever Number one Was what I'm guessing you're going to go with But let's see if I'm wrong And I would have pulled Apollo 13 In that list I would have kicked out Starship Troopers or Lost World in retrospect since I've done that list. But where'd you go, number one? My number one's Baywatch. There it is.
    29:26
    Yes, how can you not? Talk about a game that had plenty to do. That's where I was, number one, Baywatch. To date, I continue to kick myself. When I first got in this hobby, which I think was 2012, there was a local seller with a Baywatch for $900. And I did not get it because the DMD was starting to display signs of failure. And at the time, I did not know of a source to replace a large. You had to get an old one. There was nothing else to be done. It wasn't an easy task. So I didn't pull the trigger. Actually, and then I went back to, and he had sold it. And so I've never owned this game. When I see it, I do tend to play it. Four flipper. It's got the little shark flipper. Yeah, you've got, yeah. But Kamikau helped him with the design. It was both of them are credited.
    30:20
    And so you've got that four-flipper layout. Again, a lot of stand-ups, but not as many as Goldeneye. This one had 12 stand-ups. You had drop bank, spinning target. Yeah, you had a buck. You had the scoop. The kickback on the left. You had dual in-lane. Right on the right, you had dual in-lanes. There was the trap door that was on that left ramp. Five-ball, multi-ball. This one actually had a topper. I didn't remember that but it had a back box topper and you know big display for the DMD which we mentioned earlier so overall the main thing about it is this is a lot to shoot for on this game it was campy fun and it's campy yeah it's campy it's got the you know swimsuit girls are going and saving everyone constantly as you do stuff yes it's like you're like saving people from sharks or something and the playfield art's actually very basic. It's mostly just blue water.
    31:20
    You know what? You had the tower, the lock tower, and all that, and a little shark flipper to shoot off from the right to the left. There's just a lot to shoot for on the game. And so it felt very packed because of that. And you know what? I don't think this is a wide body. I think this is just really packed. Yeah, I was going to say it was a wide body, but I'm like, I think I would have hated it if it was a wide body. I'm looking on the little list. No, it's not tagged as a wide. The thing weighed 257 pounds. Okay.
    31:55
    So anyway, it's a fun one. If you ever see it at a show, it's a fun one to try out. What do you think about, because I still would love to have a Batman forever, just because of the theming and the toys and mechs. I just think it's such a cool game. It doesn't get much love, though. I have never. It doesn't? again, like many Segas, you don't encounter it very often, and I ain't ever played one where the flippers could make all the shots.
    32:22
    So true. It's perhaps the most notorious one. I'll give you some other quick thoughts on some of the Segas. South Park? South Park is way too easy. That repeatable ramp. It's like going straight to Gottlieb. It's like going to Gottlieb's main-sized Super Mario game where it has Oh, yeah. It's just too repeatable, too repeatable.
    32:47
    Space Jam, I've only played like once. I can't comment on it. It's not good, but I own it because I love the theme.
    32:53
    Twisters kind of can't be fun. That could have made a list. Too basic for me. It's like Whirlwind basic. It's just that's what they tried to make it. To me, like Independence Day, I don't think it's any fun. X-Files, I don't think is any fun. Lost in Space outright sucks. and that's a rare one too. They only made 600 or so of them. X-Files is a tricky shooter.
    33:18
    Yeah, Tony actually kind of likes the X-Files one because it has actually got stuff going on. Starship Troopers is literally just a boring layout with a boring concept with boring rules and, no, I'm sorry, Lost in Space. I meant to say Lost in Space.
    33:32
    Yeah, kind of like Harley Davidson. Sure. Soulless. I hate that game. The Godzilla? Godzilla's actually all right. I could have seen putting Godzilla in the list. It's got this one thing that you do. You try to stack and you try to get the sixth stack. And that's really challenging. It's kind of like Godzilla is like Bram Stoker's Dracula.
    33:56
    It's got that one thing and that's your big task. But besides that, there's not really a whole lot. Yeah. Viper and I Drive-In is terrible.
    34:05
    We haven't moved to Tom and Matt. Its gimmick was glow balls. That's its gimmick. I mean, it was 98. It was 98. It was at a dark time for them.
    34:14
    The Lost World Jurassic Park. I actually have very little time on it. My problem is the grabber. It's like Maverick and the Riverboat. I cannot. It's too. Yeah, the snagger. That's too slow. It was a stupid idea in the movie anyway, and it was a stupid toy, and it's stupid slow. And so I don't like them. Star Wars trilogy. Terrible. Daddy Star Wars is not a great game in and of itself and this is worse I would own it just because of the theme it's a great theme giant Sarlacc gobble hole every time I see it I think Gottlieb made it even like the TIE fighters molded knights it looks good it's not fun and Han and I think that's all the major ones I mean, they only did like around, what, 20 games or something? It wasn't very many. The fun things about Sega are that they are very basic. They almost decided, we have to make this commercially successful or it's not going to work. So they really dove in with the licensing and the theming. But then they didn't – like the rule sets are pretty much the same as they were in Data East. They didn't really elevate where Bally Williams started to become more robust in their rule sets. And Stern or Sega was just like, eh, we're good with what we got. We'll just sell these as products for the arcade quick fun. But now I think what gets overlooked is you can set them up, as I do sometimes with my Bally Williams, where they're good games. They're challenging at times. and you can set them up to where you can match the play with the lack of depth. So you can make them kind of tough so that you don't get tired of them, and they're quick, fun games, like a T&A. That's where I find fun in them. Because, like, Independence Day, that is my first kiss, I think, was during Independence Day at a theater. I just love the theming of some of the stuff that they have. So, yeah, Space Jam. Man.
    36:25
    That's when I was growing hair on my nose. Every pinball machine that went into production with them is themed. Like the worst theme was Viper Night Driving, which is, I guess, loosely themed on the Dodge Viper. And then they played up off of some AM radio show. It just doesn't make any sense to anyone.
    36:42
    That's a good list. We should have done early sterns as a list because there's so many early sterns that fall into it. We could consider doing them. after we do our next one. Yeah. Okay. Well, tune in next time. In the meantime, thank you for the continued support over on Patreon. And hey, maybe bump yourself up a level if you're not up in the Nordman or the Screaming Go Club. Join us for a happier hangout.
    37:08
    And now you can push stop.