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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 17: Getting Comfy Now That Tom Is Back

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 55m·analyzed·May 10, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Tom returns to Triple Drain; hosts discuss GNR acquisition, Rush gameplay struggles, flipper fans tech.

Summary

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast episode featuring hosts Joel, Travis, and Tom Graff discussing Tom's return to the show, personal updates including work and weather, streaming experiences with Rush and upcoming acquisition of Guns N' Roses, technical aspects of GNR including flipper maintenance via PinMonk fans, and banter about merch and clothing.

Key Claims

  • Midwest Gaming Classic was the most attended the show's ever been

    high confidence · Tom directly states this regarding MGC event attendance

  • PinMonk flipper fans solve coil heat degradation issues during extended play sessions

    medium confidence · Joel references PinMonk testing on coil temperature and flipper fade during long streams; recommends fans for games played 30+ minutes

  • GNR is polarizing among players with varied opinions on its quality

    high confidence · Joel directly observes polarization in community feedback about GNR; some praise it highly while others suggest alternatives

  • Tom still owns a GNR and enjoys it as a home game

    high confidence · Tom confirms: 'I like it. I like Guns N' Roses music. It's a cool game.'

  • JJP flippers require maximum power settings and cooling fans for optimal performance during long play

    medium confidence · Joel references Carl D'Angelo's advice to 'turn the flippers all the way up' and install flipper fans

Notable Quotes

  • “Tom is the longest leg of a three-legged stool. And, you know, we were wobbly.”

    Joel @ Early in episode — Describes Tom's essential role in the podcast dynamic and chemistry

  • “When I stream Rush, I feel bad. And I feel bad because I know I am not showing the game in a good light.”

    Joel @ Mid-episode — Self-aware critique of his Rush gameplay and streaming performance; concern about marketing impact

  • “I like it. I like Guns N' Roses music. It's a cool game... I like it as a home game to try to get as far into it as I can.”

    Tom @ Mid-episode — Direct endorsement of GNR as a home game despite it not being a tournament staple

  • “The game is tailor-made for a player like you... the player that isn't like a hardcore tournament player that just enjoys playing pinball at your house.”

    Tom @ Mid-episode — Characterizes GNR as ideal for casual/home players rather than competitive tournament play

  • “The rule set is designed around that just to keep the action moving along... it's not really one of those games that requires to have a ton of ball control to have fun because there's so many multi balls there near the start button.”

    Tom @ Mid-episode — Explains GNR's design philosophy around accessibility and constant multiball action

  • “If you're playing a game for, like, 30-plus minutes or longer and you realize you're starting to feel something, check out pinmonk.com, get a set of fans.”

    Joel @ Late mid-episode — Product recommendation based on technical observation about flipper degradation during extended play

Entities

Tom GraffpersonJoelpersonTravispersonZachpersonCarl D'AngelopersonRay DaypersonAndy BagwellpersonMidwest Gaming Classic

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: GNR is highly polarizing in the community with no consensus on game quality; appeals strongly to home players and multiball enthusiasts but less valued in tournament setting

    high · Joel: 'it's a super polarizing game.' Tom notes it's not a tournament game due to endless multiballs but excellent for home play. Community feedback ranges from 'amazing experience' to 'you should have kept Rush'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Tournament viability assessment: GNR not considered serious tournament game due to endless multiball mechanic; Wonka preferred for competitive play despite both being JJP products

    medium · Tom: GNR 'not a huge tournament game because of the endless multiballs' but owns for home enjoyment; indicates tournament players prefer Wonka's balanced design

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rush has problematic playfield design creating frustration for casual/streaming players; ramp shots are inconsistent on Pro model with wider posts causing dead-end ball returns

    high · Joel extensively describes inability to hit ramp shots reliably; references technical difference between Pro (wider posts) and Premium/LE (thin rubbers); blames design rather than skill entirely

  • $

    market_signal: Streaming culture driving demand for games with sustained gameplay depth and variety (GNR's song selection) rather than technical mastery requirements

    medium · Joel excited about GNR's 20+ song variety for 2-hour streaming sessions; values 'options to play' rather than single-path tournament challenge

  • ?

    community_signal: Tom Graff (tournament streamer/commentator) continues as essential co-host of Triple Drain Podcast after hiatus; brings validity and authority to technical discussions

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.347

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. All right, Travis, you ready? Let's get it. And I'm so happy to say this. Tom Graff, are you ready? I'm back, baby. Oh, boy. Here we go. We, we, we, we're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with a blast, our name. We're Joe and Travis, I'm a talk and ball. And we call ourselves Triple D. We're Triple, Triple D. All right. Wow, this feels good. This feels good. Yeah. Tom's back. Tom is back. I'm glad to be back with friends. Yes. So just to reiterate, Tom was not on the last episode. By choice, by choice, we were, you know, Travis and I had talked about, you know, we needed to do a Texas Pickleball. Well, Tom, are you hearing this? Joel is just straight up throwing you under the bus. No. Wait, let me get to it because, you know, we've got a big deal here. See what I had to do, Tom? I had to co-host with Joel. I listened to it, and I'm sorry, everybody. Never leave me again, Tom. Oh, boy. Never again. Well, I would love for you guys to never, you know, we got a good thing here. I said it before, Tom is the longest leg of a three-legged stool. And, you know, we were wobbly. We were wobbly. But Travis and I, we just got through it, I think. There wasn't any real substance there. I mean, I think we just kind of make fun of each other and agree with each other. But we need Tom to, like, actually bring in the validity, you know, and, like, the firm, bold statements that we've all grown to love. I like pinball. There we go. See, we wouldn't have had that. Travis would have just been, I don't know, whatever. I knew we were missing something last podcast. That's what it was. Well, for all the listeners out there, sorry to keep you waiting. Thanks for bearing through last episode. But what I was saying is, yes, Tom takes his professional pinball career seriously. I did see a little news story on you, by the way. Oh, God. I was trying to get out of that, too. No, you crushed it. You're a pro pinball player now, buddy. I know you prefer, like, still shots for your modeling career, but you may need to break into video, or maybe you are breaking into video. But, yeah, you're just practicing for worlds, you know, and you're ready to dominate. I do do stream, Joel. I know, but this is like – Joel's like talking OnlyFans, Tom. That's what he's getting at here. Okay. All right. Well, glad we got – yeah, I'm glad we're back. You know, this is needed. I think what I've realized is, you know, when there's three of us, two of us can gang up on the other one, and we kind of just rotate on who that is at any given moment.
event
Flipper Fans (PinMonk)product
Rushgame
Guns N' Roses (GNR)game
Willy Wonkagame
Hobbitgame
Star Wars (Premium)game
Batman 66game
Stranger Thingsgame
Avengersgame
Godzillagame
Triple Drain Pinball Podcastorganization
PinMonkperson
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany

high · Joel and Travis emphasize Tom's importance: 'the longest leg of a three-legged stool'; describe prior episode as lacking substance without him

  • ?

    product_strategy: PinMonk flipper fans address coil heat degradation issue during extended streaming sessions, enabling better performance for games like GNR and Stranger Things

    medium · Joel and Tom discuss how flipper power fades after 3+ hours of play on JJP games; recommend PinMonk cooling solution as standard for streamers

  • ?

    technology_signal: JJP flipper design requires specific setup (maximum power) and aftermarket cooling solutions to maintain performance during extended home play sessions

    medium · Carl D'Angelo recommends turning JJP flippers to maximum power and installing PinMonk fans; Joel notes flipper fade affecting reliable shots after 3.5+ hours of streaming

    • 2:56
    Yeah, it's good for Travis. It makes him feel included. So, yeah, glad. All right. Well, number one, I did the list today, so the numbers actually work. So number one we have listed here as catching up, catching up. So, yeah, it's been a little while since we recorded. I don't know. Anything crazy? I don't know. Has anything happened in your lives that's worth mentioning?
    3:23
    All right, nothing. Anything, Tom? Anything for you? Great Lakes Pinball Open, Midwest Gaming Classic, Baseball Started. Yeah, that's about it. That's about it. Any highlights on any of that that you mentioned? Anything worth filling in the listeners? I did the Clock Chaos tournament this year and helped out with that and also the main tournament, which Andy Bagwell won. Congrats to him. Nice.
    3:57
    You sound really excited about Andy's victory. I know. He'll love that. But no, MGC was a big success. It was the most attended the show's ever been. Nice. And looking forward to next year. Nice. No crazy, I mean, I know you were basically living the tournament the whole time, but there wasn't any, like, crazy reveals, or did you have a chance to play any games there that you hadn't played before, anything like that?
    4:26
    No, not really. I mean, there was definitely no reveals. I was hoping for, you know, a JGP game, but, yeah, that didn't happen. Got it. and then uh yeah catching up travis i know uh we we typically have a pretty active uh facebook chat you know throughout the week and um i i live at my computer i mean i do software support for a living and then tom whenever he's not drilling teeth he's pretty he's pretty active in the chat and travis used to be on the chat all the time but i don't know about you tom but like the last week it's just it's like travis has a big boy job he's like working he's a busy man yeah i found I found someone else. I'm sorry. You found someone else, yes. Yeah, no, yeah, you're putting in work. You whore.
    5:16
    You're, Travis is putting in work at the pinball company. I think he, I don't know, you're keeping your head above water, right? I mean, it's a lot. I mean, somewhat. I'm at a computer a lot, so it's like I'm rapidly turning into a neck beard, it feels like, so I need to make sure to get outside every now and again, I guess. Yeah, and hiss at the sun, yeah. Well, whenever I do get to see the sun, it rains all the time up here in the St. Louis area. I don't know what it is. At least there's no tornadoes. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's none of that. The most wind we have is maybe 12, 13 miles per hour. But it just, it rains just nonstop. Every other day it feels like it's just pouring rain and then nothing. Then back to rain, nothing. So, I don't know. I don't know what it is. I'm sorry your body's not, you know, used to moisture. But, yeah, good luck with it. That's the Midwest, man. So, yeah. I don't know. You go to Oklahoma Dirt or something is what it sounds like. Yeah, that's pretty. Well, it's a lot of wind here in Oklahoma. So, yeah. It's like when you go outside, it feels like you have, what is that, that you use to dry off your hair? A hair dryer? Hair dryer? Yeah, a hair dryer. That makes sense.
    6:25
    I just had to reverse the word around. Holy cow. A hair dryer. The fast wind machine. Holy cow. Whatever it is, that thingamajigger that just like – Yeah, like the hot stuff that comes at you, yeah. So it feels like you've got a hair dryer on the back of your neck when you go outside in Oklahoma. So, yes. Just wait for – Just edit that part out. Don't worry about it. It's good. Humidity, man. Just wait for the summer and you're introduced to humidity for the first time. You'll love it. I'm so glad we got to catch up. This has been a great podcast so far. I'm glad I'm spending my evening with you two. Good night, everyone. It's a lot better when two people know an obvious answer and it makes the one person feel dumb compared to just one-on-one. I'm glad you at least corrected me and you gave me the answer and just let me, like, spend the next minute trying to figure out that word. So I appreciate it. Yeah, okay. This is the same guy that said two idiots and himself. Two idiots, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's still a T-shirt that's waiting to come out.
    7:25
    Oh, boy. Well, if anybody's still listening, thanks for listening. um but yeah so just moving ahead moving forward um news wise um i am so i've basically my last few weeks have just been um you know streaming having a good time but i've still been i've been streaming rush a good bit and um zach with with flipping out he actually he lives in evansville just a few hours away from me he lets me borrow games to stream and so on thursday he is replacing he's coming to pick up rush um so this this particular one will be for sale so if you want If you want to buy one used, hit up Zach. But otherwise, he's – I can definitely tell that Joel does not like Rush when I watch his things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I meant to ask you about that, Tom. Were you, like, just taking your phone and just throwing it against the wall when you heard what Joel was saying about Rush? Pretty much. I mean, he waited until you weren't on the podcast. I had to wait. Just take a shot all over it. I don't know what it was. I just can't say it to your face, Tom, you know? Still the greatest game. I'm, you know, to be, this is my 100% honesty, when I stream Rush. Here comes Sitter Joel again. Here he comes. No, this is the thing. When I stream Rush, I feel bad. And I feel bad because I know I am not showing the game in a good light. Like, if this is a, if Zach is letting me borrow this game for marketing purposes, like, I am not helping him sell this game. That's the thing. Self-awareness is the first step to recovery. So we appreciate that about you. Yeah. And that, to me, it's just, I don't know. I don't know what to blame it on. But when I see other people stream Rush, absolutely. They look like they're having a lot more fun than me, and they're hitting a lot more shots than I am. And this is a game that really, it blows up. Why are you pointing? What are you doing? You need glasses. I had LASIK done, okay? I had my LASIKs done, and it works great. See your eye doctor. Yeah, see my eye doctor. Try it. I don't know. He's finding the shots. I don't know where they are. It's like they keep moving. I'm not an idiot. It's just a hard game. It's freaking John Borg, man. I don't know. I can't really defend my lack of poor play, but, I mean, I see it. I see the code. Ray's been on. Ray Day, you know, who coded the game, has been on my stream before. I see it. I see what makes this game so good and why people like you and, you know, Tom and Travis actually really love this game and the crazy deep strategies of this game. Like, I see it. And that's what I'm frustrated by is I know it's there and I know what to do. I just can't do it. Have you tried practicing? Oh, okay. Yeah. No, no, I haven't done that. But what I did try was I turned it. This is what's really sad. I'd moved the outlaying posts down. So I closed them off. I did that way early on. But this is the real sad part. Get the training wheels on. That's okay. No, it gets worse. Nothing wrong with that. It gets worse because Raymond's like, hey, why don't you try turning it in easy mode?
    10:30
    Easy mode, right? Did you put rubber bands on it? No, I didn't put rubber bands on it. No, there's some preset settings in a game. You put some presets at five degrees, I bet, also. No, I did not do that. I just set it to easy mode. So, like, remember when the game originally came out and you'd get to any of the multiballs, it would be a three-ball multiball instead of two. you know it's like some of those things so a few less hits to certain things and i only did that for one stream and i will tell you it didn't help it didn't help um i i mean i was able to achieve some more stuff but that was uh the second night of streaming in a row and i was i was pretty tired so my reflexes were not there and everybody keeps saying that the pro time machine shot is tougher than the LE. It is. Yes. It is. 100%. But the thing goes down and you hit it and it ricochets back off. It's not a... I think the return is better on the Pro than it is on the LE. Well, I would agree to that. Yeah, because it's not hitting a dead end shot and then just coming back to you. Right. When you do have the buck shot, that doesn't exist either. The problem is mine is still a dead-end shot because I'm hitting the post. The problem is Joel. That's the problem. So the two posts on both sides of the ramp are wider than the thin rubbers that are on the premium and LE. So that's what's frustrating is the ramp shot is a very important shot, obviously, in the game, and there have been plenty of times that I can't hit that shot for anything. But the buck shot, I mean, you hit that, you hit the target, and it comes back at you. You've got to react to it. But I don't know. I mean, that's why I'm not – it's not that I think it's a bad game. You know, there have been games that I've had that it's just like, wow, I'm bored of this. Like I'm sick of the code or I don't see the potential here. Like these shots aren't fun. It's not that at all. It's just this game makes me feel like a terrible player. And because of that, I'm not – I'm missing out on the fun that everybody else is having. Like that's the way I feel when I play the game. So to all the Rush owners out there, it's, you know, if you're loving it, I'm really happy for you. But, yeah, this is just a game that's just personally is hard for me to really enjoy like I do other games.
    12:54
    So I don't know. Sorry to this point, you guys. If you want to personally attack Joel, just send all emails to tripledrainpodcasts.gmail.com. Oh, no, tripledrain.
    13:06
    Tripledrain. TripleDrain.dml.com. Yes. I mean, I'll read it, be happy to read it. We have an email? Oh, God, you're the worst. Yeah. So, anyways, what I was saying. I don't have access to this. Wait, do you have access to the email? Joel and I have it, yeah. Tom and I read it all. I thought he sent you the password. Did you? I'm pretty sure I did.
    13:24
    A long time ago when we started the podcast. It's okay. I don't have time for that anyways. You guys are right.
    13:30
    Yeah, reading is a lot harder for you than most, so, yeah. But, anyway, so. This is true. I won't deny that. So Thursday, Zach is picking up Rush, and he's swapping it out for GNR. So what I found is I've talked a bunch about this on my streams, and what I'm really realizing is how polarizing Guns N' Roses is. Like, there are some people that are like, give it a week. It's an amazing experience. There's no other game like it. And then there are other people that are like, yeah, you should have kept Rush. Or they're like, you know, good luck, or, like, you're going to be bored of that, or, hey, if you like multiball, you're going to love it. Like, I don't, it just seems like a super polarizing game. And the reason I picked it, and here's the deal, and I think I've mentioned these to you, but Zach has essentially given me three options. It was either GNR, it was Star Wars Premium, or recently he threw out the idea of Batman 66.
    14:24
    And I've always liked Batman 66, but the reason I'm considering, oh, yeah, Travis's eyes lit up. Did you say no to Batman? The reason I'm saying no to Batman is because of how polarizing GNR is. And I want to feel, you know, we have listeners that are JJP fanboys, and I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's just there are some people that truly believe that JJP games are better than anything else that's out on the market. And now that I'm more involved in the hobby, I want to put time in this. And I just want to see where I fall. I mean, I may come out of this respecting JJP more. I may like GNR. I may hate it. I don't know. So it's more I want to put in the time just because I want to feel it. I want to feel it out. I do have a prediction for you. Because we did talk about this, and I'm a big Star Wars fan, and I had a Star Wars premium, and I love that pin. I ultimately had to let it go because I had nothing left to do on that pin. And I even told you, I said, you should go for GNR because I think you'd have a lot more fun with that. So honestly, I think you'll have a good time on it. I mean, even though my first review of the game wasn't exactly glowing, a couple of years ago, I think it still has a place at home because I even had one at the house for a little while. My kids loved it. Wife loved it. And I enjoyed playing it to an extent, just figuring out the intricacies of it and the nuance to it, because there is some nuance to it as well. But I think in a home setting, the game is actually a lot of fun. Yeah. And Tom, you still own one. Correct. And why do you still own it? I don't know.
    16:03
    I like it. I like Guns N' Roses music. It's a cool game. I mean, it's not a huge tournament game because of the endless multiballs. But like Travis said, I like it as a home game to try to get as far into it as I can. Sure. It's a deep game. Yeah. Same reason I like Hobbit.
    16:30
    I still have my Willy Wonka. Now, do you like Wonka or GNR better, Tom? I like Wonka better. I do, too. I think after playing Wonka, I feel the same way. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. It's more balanced out, I want to say.
    16:49
    It could be a tournament game to me. But that's all I have to say about that. There you go. Well, Joel, I think you'll have fun being welcome to the jungle. I think you'll be just fine. I think you'll enjoy it. Yeah, in a home setting, when you turn off all the lights, you don't have people distracting you or anything like that. You have, I guess in your case, friends and family all around you. I mean, it is truly a concert in a box.
    17:19
    So if you're judging it from that, I think you'll have a lot of fun. If you're trying to figure out every which way to play the game, you might kind of like just spin your way into the ground, trying to figure that out with the patches and everything. Yeah, yeah. Do you think Joel will blow it up like Carl? No.
    17:39
    What do you mean blow it up? He'll get like a $100 million jackpot. I tell you what, if Joel gets $50 million, I will personally come on his stream and give 10 gifted subs. Oh, wow. So I need 50. I don't know the scoring. I'm assuming this is not going to happen. But 50 million jackpot is what I need. With the glass on. With the glass on, yeah, yeah. And I won't even put it in easy mode.
    18:05
    Well, you can. The whole game's easy mode. It spits out multiballs at you the whole time. Well, that is one thing I do know absolutely. Like, my multiball play needs to improve. Like, that is one area of my game. There's a lot of areas of my game that I need to play better. You can't trap up on the game. I know. You can, but it'll hurt you. So what surprised me the few times I've played it before is how quickly you can get into the multi-balls before you're in a song. And the more streams that I've watched, like I've watched some of Carl's streams, it's basically I'm realizing the game is kind of you have the pre-song and then in the song. Kind of like it's always two phases. So before the song, you want to get like you want to build. You want to build. You're at a building phase. And then you get so it's like are you locking balls to bring them into the song or are you building up the value of the song? So it's interesting. There's definitely some interesting theory here. But what I'm excited about is, I mean, most – I stream. And so when I'm playing a game for two hours straight, what I'm pumped about is this game is going to give me options to, you know, play the – like I'll probably just for a while roll with whatever song it gives me. But if I find I like songs better than the other, the fact that I have, whatever, 20-something songs I can pick from and switch around and make it feel different and kind of unique as I go, I'm really – I'm looking at it more as like a JJP experience. I want to feel it out. And then I'm excited for the game offers. Well, you're going to have a lot of fun on it because, honestly, I feel like the game is tailor-made for a player like you. And I mean like the player – well, no.
    19:40
    Well done, Tom. Tom was on that. He knew it was coming. I mean like the player that isn't like a hardcore tournament player that just Just enjoys playing pinball at your house, just enjoys hitting the start button and taking 30 minutes to just fill out a game, doesn't really necessarily need to know every single rule, doesn't need to know exactly where you need to put the ball at every single second of the game. And that's a lot of the charm of GNR is because there is so much that's going on. I think if you want to know what's going on, yeah, you could figure out the depth of the game and maybe get a little bit more fun out of it if you choose to go that route. But at the same time, it's the type of game that if you just love chimp flipping and just having no care in the world and just listen to GNR, you're going to have a lot of fun on the game. Because, I mean, it's specifically designed for that. And the rule set is designed around that just to keep the action moving along in that sense. So it's not really one of those games that requires to have a ton of ball control to have fun because there's so many multi balls there near the start button. So even if you start bricking a shot here and there, what do you care when you have two or three other balls going on at the same time? I mean, that's the nature of the beast. Well, I know a lot of people complain about the way the JJP flippers feel, and I know Carl D'Angelo, i.e. Pinball, a fantastic streamer and an incredible player. We've had him on the show. I reached out to Carl. Carl owns a GNR, and he likes it. He really enjoys the game. So I asked him, I was like, what do you suggest? And he said, he goes, well, first off, turn the flippers all the way up. Make them as powerful as possible. And then he goes, you have to get flipper fans. So people may or may not know this, but Penmonk, penmonk.com, he basically has done all this testing on how hot coils get. The longer you play a game, the coils that power your flippers get hot. And the hotter they get, the weaker they get. And so basically that's what, if you're going to turn them up to max power, We need to make sure they stay cool so that you can play this game, especially if I'm going to BRB Keep Talking. I love reading it out just because it makes Travis look bad. Yep. BRB. No, you can go pee. Do whatever you need to do, man. Yeah. Just wash your hands. You're good. Yeah. By the way, Travis now has a basement, and apparently he's cold all the time. So he bought this, like, ridiculously large hoodie. I don't know if you saw that, Tom. I did. That hoodie's, like, down to his knees, and it's like a shirt button. It's like a winter coat. It's unbelievable. I can still hear you, you a-hole. Travis, you could put on easily 60 pounds and no one would notice that hoodie. I mean, it is. That's true. You do your man. Monica would notice, though. Is it really cold in your basement? Because it's 61 degrees in mine. That is freezing, Tom. Why are you acting like that's not cold? It's like it was 70 degrees outside today. Although the heat's not on I have a whole tangent about this But I don't want to derail the podcast But we'll talk about this off podcast Alright, fine I hate basements That's all there is to it Basements are so great, you're just wrong on that I do have a spotted cow though, Tom Ooh, spotted cow Nice I should go get one of my Rush Bears You should Thank you Mike Castleman from pinballers. Sorry, Joel. I didn't mean to interrupt you. We're just talking beer. Travis is holding up his hand of beer to a camera like, oh, I'm glad that's entertaining two whole people. Everybody else is. Do you know what Spotted Cow is, Joel? Yes, I do. That's like a religion in Wisconsin. You're lucky Tom can even still function right now seeing Spotted Cow in the town. He's drooling. He's getting thirsty. They immediately made him think of Rush. Okay, we got way off. What were we talking about? I was talking about Flipper fans. That's all I'm saying. So I don't know. If anybody's listening to the podcast and they have a J.J.P. game, if they realize, or even the reality is I actually have them in all my games, and it's because I stream the games. So I play them so long for, you know, two hours straight. There are certain games where all of a sudden a ramp shot that you could hit at the beginning of the stream you can't anymore. And, yes, there are times that I can hit shots at the beginning of the stream. Do you know how we know that Carl is such a good guy? He puts up with Joel? He puts up with everybody. That's true. He puts up with me, too. Literally, the way Joel was talking right there, that means Carl was talking to Joel as if Joel would get as deep into GNR as he does.
    24:18
    Well, okay. You need to get these flipper fakes because your flippers will really fade about three and a half hours into the game. As much as you're chimping.
    24:28
    If you're chimping as much as an eight-year-old, You know, you want to make sure I got to get that. I got to make sure my flippers are strong enough that I get my 50 million. You know, I don't want to. God bless Carl. Such a good guy. There. OK. There have been like on a Canadian pinball. Learn DNR. Yes. Help me, please. Yeah. On some sterns, though, there was a time before flipper fans when I was borrowing a stranger things. And early on when I would stream, you could backhand left ramp all the time. And then what I realized is later on in the stream, there was a few times that that bit me hard. you know, a shot that I would find safe and reliable, all of a sudden you can't. Well, I will tell you the Pin Monk Flipper fans solve that. So if you're listening and you're one of those people that you play a game for, like, 30-plus minutes or longer and you realize you're starting to feel something, check out pinmonk.com, get a set of fans. It totally solves that problem. But if you're one of those people that, you know, you just turn on your game and you play it two, three times, you know, you don't need them. You don't need them. You still need to buy them right now. Just to support you. Yeah. But Pin Monk has a whole bunch of other cool stuff. I mean, I really, I'm a fan of him. He's a great guy. So there's your shill. And that's not a sponsored, like, Pin Monk is legit an awesome guy. Yeah, I have his in my Avengers and my Godzilla. Yeah. They're awesome. Yeah. Awesome. I feel like I need to get him now. You should. I will.
    25:48
    He's not going to do it. He said he was going to get Triple Drain merch, like, eight months ago. And it hasn't happened. It has not happened. Why do I not get it for free? I am one of the co-hosts. I don't get it. Who's buying it? I haven't paid for it. Who's buying it? Yeah. Who do you think's buying it? All the merch you see me wear, I got it for free, and I will wear it. If I get it for free, I'll wear it on camera. Then, Joel, do we just chip in and, you know? I don't know. I don't feel bad for this guy at all. Where the frick is my TPN hat? Oh, Travis has them, by the way. Oh, yeah. I totally forgot to bring those to you last time I saw you. That's my bad. If it was Travis, it's okay. Yeah, it's free merch, so that's why he still has it. You know what? Because it's for you. It's yours.
    26:33
    Joel gave me free merch at TPF. Was I supposed to bring it to Wisconsin? Yes. Did I forget? Yep. It happens. What can you do? I'll see Tom next month, though. I'll bring him his hat. It's somewhere around here.
    26:46
    Okay. Are we talking about Fiverr fans still? Where are we going with this conversation? I don't know. You guys are just, you know, apparently now clothing Travis is a priority of this podcast. So, hold on. That is true. I was just trying to go get me a drink, and you guys had to try to throw me under the bus with my – okay, you're right, Tom. I apologize for including you on that. You all had to throw me under the bus with my just sweet ass, whatever this is called, wearable blanket. How low does that go? Does that go past your, like, your buns, your cheeks, your butt? Do you want me to show you? I don't want to see it. What I'm hoping for is... Oh my goodness, it's so big! Dude, you... Yes it is, Joel! That is a fucking dress!
    27:31
    That is not a dress. That is a boo-boo! I don't even care. I will wear this to a tournament. It is so damn comfortable. I don't even care. Oh my God! Oh, he turned off his camera! Wait, I'm coming back. Don't worry. No, no. Big Papa's coming back. It's okay. Look. He does not know how to recharge. Now we can legitimately call him Big Papa. Do you send me, Joel, send me a triple drain logo? I will stitch that bad boy on the front of this, and I will wear it to tournaments. It is so comfortable. You could have more logos than a NASCAR with how big that is. I mean, you need to wear that in Wisconsin in June. That's what you need to wear. Well, I don't know about that. I don't want to pass out. You don't even have to wear shorts or anything under it. Nobody will know the difference. But my question is to you, if you rip one, though, while you're wearing that, you just straight Dutch ovened yourself, didn't you? I mean, it's low enough. It's going to contain everything. Oh, when you say rip one, you're meaning like fart? Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? What else are you ripping? Well, you said rip one. I thought you were meaning like a spinner or something. I didn't realize you were talking about flat wind. If you farted in that tent of a hoodie that you wearing doesn it just contain it and just build it up Because it definitely not going anywhere else Let just get the brass tacks Joel since you want me to discuss farting in this thing I'll tell you. I feel like I've got to fart, and I'm sitting down. I get up, and I fan out. Okay? Let's just be honest here.
    29:11
    Nobody's sitting in their own fart. That is not happening. Dude, you have to take that off before you sit on a toilet, don't you? Because that goes way too low. You're not going to bunch that back. I got to use the bathroom. You're not punching that baby up. Yeah, I got to. I tried to use the bathroom with it once.
    29:26
    All the way up to my armpits. And it was like I was porky pigging. I was like, no, this ain't going to work anymore. I can't do it. Yeah, you're going to break a sweat, you know, just trying to pinch one out. No, I'm happy for you, Travis. I'm glad you found. I don't know, man. You're a special. We should sell this for merch. There you go. talk to Zach and pinball swag yeah like the new like pinball blanket to wear around I mean I'm happy for you I'm glad you're comfy but I don't think we need I don't know you do you man why do we not need this Joel give me one good reason why we don't need this if you look in a mirror that's all you need just look in a mirror and you'll realize why we don't need that thing is massive you could hide both your twins in that thing with you.
    30:21
    Alright, so I think that's enough for number two. We talked about number two. I think we're good. We can roll right on to number three. Nailed it.
    30:31
    So, yes. Rumors! I am pumped about getting the GNR just to experience JJP and kind of prepare because there's really nothing. There's really nothing coming out between now and I would assume Stern is going to announce something in August. Like, I mean, to be honest, if American Pinball or if whatever, CGC, like, I don't see anybody else coming out with anything. CGC just came out with Cactus Canyon. And they're barely trickling out. I mean, that's why we're in a lull. We're kind of waiting. And so that's the next thing. The next thing that's coming is going to be the next JGP game. And apparently, unless something crazy happens, it should be Toy Story. It should be Toy Story. I mean, Toy Story has been rumored forever. Apparently, this game has even been done for a while. I don't know. So I'm looking forward to streaming GNR, but if I had to guess, the next game I'm going to stream after GNR will probably be the next JJP game. And I'm guessing it's Toy Story. So I don't know where the two of you guys are at. I mean, obviously, Tom, you've owned JJP Games. Travis, you owned GNR. Are you guys, like, excited for Toy Story? Is this a game that you're planning on buying? I don't know. What are your thoughts? Have you seen what I'm wearing, Joel? This is what all Toy Story fans wear. I'm telling you. This is it. I don't.
    32:00
    I don't. I mean, I'm happy for you, man, but it's ridiculous. It's so. We should. I wish we had video. Tom, did you see his pants? My pants are incredible. My power pants. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't mean to derail the segment here, but you cannot make fun of what I'm wearing and you're wearing those pants. They're so good. So look up like old, what is it? Tiger skin? Yeah, it's like. Just look up Tiger Speedo and look what Joel's wearing right now. I got these at Goodwill when I was at Purdue. They're black and gold. They look like tigers. Of course you got them at Goodwill. They're so great. But I don't live in them like you are now doing with your hoodie.
    32:45
    Yeah, I call them my power pants. They're old, like, old workout pants. That's fair. Thin, cotton. They breathe. So, Toy Story, I'm very excited about it. I really want one. I've been a Toy Story fan for, well, when did the first movie come out? 1995?
    33:01
    I was, like, maybe 10, 11 then. So, yeah. So, you are, like, you're absolutely planning on buying one. I want to get one. I would like to get one. I know my wife definitely wants to get one, and I know my kids, when they kind of heard about it, they wanted to get one too, but luckily they don't have a job, so they can't really make that decision. But I think ultimately we'll end up getting one. I mean, it's a timeless theme. I think it's a great theme for pinball. So it is. I mean, just to be clear, it's not like you haven't owned every JJP game. Like, you are buying this or planning on buying this purely based on Toy Story. Well, if I've got to be honest, I'm purely buying it because my wife wants it, and happy wife, happy life. There we go. Yeah, secondary, Toy Story is a pretty fun theme, though. Okay. And then, Tom, are you already on a list somewhere? Are you planning on getting one? Yeah, I think I'll be getting one, but I'm a little nervous about, you know, Now, JJP's had those playfield issues in the past. I have it on my Wonka, which they did send me a new playfield. Nice. And I'm very thankful for that. My GNR, luckily, has not had any issues. But I know a lot of people that have. And I think their new policy now is that they're not replacing playfields. So if that's the case and, you know, the prices the way they are, we'll have to see. It's going to have to be a game that's going to blow my socks off. So your view is I'm on a list right now, but you would be, yeah, if what you see doesn't blow your socks off, you'll just take your name off the list? That's the plan? Or you'd give it a shot? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we'll see. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to speculate. Sure. You know, I'm sure it'll be a good game, but, you know, the play field issues makes me nervous. That's fair. I'm hearing, yeah, drink up, boys. Yeah, no, drink your spotted cow, and Tom's got some lemonade concoctions, what it looks like. Nice job. Crystallite. There we go. So, yeah, I'm in a weird spot because I'm actually really looking forward to this. And reason being is my parents are finishing their basement, and they've agreed that they want a pinball machine. And so what's weird, and I'll bring this back up later, but my plan was always to just get an older game, like a taxi or something like that, get an older game that was kind of beat up. Maybe not that old. Stars is good, though. But, like, a game that has some sort of clear objectives and stuff like that. So my plan was get one that's kind of beat up, fix it up for them, and, you know, have a good time. But the price of these used older games is so absurd now that it's almost like, well, might as well get you a new game. So I've been talking to them a lot about themes and stuff that are out there. And my dad is kind of cheap. He doesn't like spending money. but when Toy Story came up as a theme, he perked up. He's like, now that's a theme I could get behind. And so what's interesting is I know this is potentially a game, and I have full intention. I'm pretty certain this is going to be an expensive game, but I do think there is a chance that this would be a game that they want. So I'm actually looking at, I'm very much looking forward to this reveal because it's not like I have stake in the game, but I'm actually kind of looking at it as maybe this would be a game that we would buy and I'd stream for a while and then my parents would one day own. So I'm more excited about this reveal than any of the other JJP reveals that I've experienced.
    37:01
    Not to mention it's a theme that I'm really, really excited about. But I don't know. We could probably discuss some of the rumors.
    37:09
    I mean, I don't know. What rumors have you heard, Tom? How about that? We'll start with you, Tom. I was just going to say. I haven't heard any, so I'll get some out of this conversation. Good night, everybody.
    37:22
    Well, basic rumors. So the number one would be Pat Lawler. Yeah. Pat Lawler. So anybody in this new lobby that happens to be listening to this, Pat Lawler, I mean, he's, some argue, he's one if not the best pinball designer ever. He made Adam's Family. He made Twilight Zone. He's made some, you know, beloved games. and he has a very specific kind of theme or not theme but like he always has whatever the five lane apron right so like there's always the double in lane on one side he loves his pop bumpers he loves having a shot through the pops there's a real good chance this won't be a two flipper game it'll be at least a three flipper game you know like these are all pretty normal pat lawler isms but yeah rumors are that he's designed this game and it and it is going to be his last game like that's those are the rumors that are out there so you know is this his swan song kind of thing um i don't know travis what other have you heard any other rumors or what anything i mean a couple of things i guess i mean so yeah well i'm trying to think what what do i feel comfortable saying on a podcast?
    38:43
    Yeah, Travis works for Pinball. I'll just say, Jersey Jack Pinball makes games. I'll say the one thing that I am most curious of that of course nobody knows yet, and that we're all trying to figure out, is whether or not the game will have Hot Rails. I mean, I think that's the question that a lot of people have been asking, because they were so predominant on GNR and it actually made that game really, really come to life from a light show perspective. So I don't, you know, we talked about this before the podcast, whether or not something like that would be on a Toy Story, because it's not necessarily a quote-unquote concert in a box, but it's going to be a movie experience in a box. And so maybe the Hot Rails would equal out being something good for it based on the type of modes that are in there and everything. But then at the same time, I can see it from the other perspective that, you know, the Hot Rails, some people felt like they were too distracting since the lights basically pointed straight upwards. I've heard that from people before. So I'm curious to see whether or not they implement that with Toy Story once it comes out. So assuming it is Toy Story. Well, Tom, what's your view of Hot Reels? Do you like them or no? I think they're really cool. In a game like G&R, they're cool because it gives you that concert experience, but I'm not sure how it'll trend over to a movie game like Toy Story. Good point. But, I mean, it could be well done, you know, just maybe not so flashy kind of thing. But, I mean, and obviously, you know, Stern has their own kind of hot rails. You know, they got the Led Zeppelin. Expression lights. Expression lights, thank you. Couldn't think of the name. Hair dryer. And then Rush. Hair dryer, yeah.
    40:35
    But they don't have it on Beatles. Well, the big question really, though, that comes with Toy Story, is it going to be based off the first movie or all four movies? That's a good question. That's a great question. That's a good question, and I'll give you a short answer to that because I want to talk more about Hot Rails. But my short answer is the first movie is amazing, so if it is only the first movie, I would be totally fine. now with that said there were additional characters that were added in later movies like Jesse wasn't in I don't think Jesse was in the first anything I don't think Jesse was in the second movie or whatever like so there are people that probably love Jesse okay apparently this is too short this is not a short answer that's what uh freaking Travis is telling I was just trying I want to talk about Hot Rails you want me to come back you're going to be a long time go back to Hot Rails I'm just messing with you Joe you want to talk about Hot Rails Oh, hot rails. Yeah, let's talk about hot rails. That's a good idea.
    41:32
    Hot rails to me, when I saw the GNR reveal, as soon as I saw the hot rails, I thought, like, that was like a no way. Like, that blew me away. And it was one of those, like, how has this not happened? Like, how did nobody think of this? Like, to me, these are genius kind of thing. And correct me if I'm wrong, but GNR was revealed before Led Zeppelin, right? Like, I think GNR came out first. Yeah, but I could have swore that I thought either Tim Sexton or somebody said that they had been working on the expression lights before the GNR Hot Rails were revealed. They had. But there were definitely people that when Led Zeppelin came out and they showed the expression lights, people were like, well, Stern had to react. You know, Stern had to – Stern obviously – it's like, no, that's not – they're not going to whip up an entire thing like that in two weeks. In a month and a half. Yeah, it's not how that works. But right around the same time, the Hot Rails came out, I was like, those are genius. That's amazing. I'm all for the light show. I mean, even just like my TNA, every light in that game is an RGB LED. And what you can do with the light show, the GI, the inserts, everything, you can just do so much with the light shows. And every JJP game has been that way. I mean, and so they added more lights to the rails. And it just, I think the more light show you put in there, you can, there can be a point where too much light show can be distracting. But having those additional lights can also be highly informative if it's coded right. Now, GNR, you know, their focus when they were coding the Hot Rails was to make you feel more immersed and make every song feel unique and really try to give you that concert setting. while Led Zeppelin though when the Expression Light Kit I know for a fact Zach and Nicole let me borrow a Led Zeppelin Pro and I played it and I streamed it for well over a month plus and then Zach sent me an Expression Light Kit and I put it in the game and it was truly a game changer like bringing in the Expression Lighting to that game just added so much to it made it feel so immersive and I am bummed I'm grateful that Zach and Nicole have let me borrow this rush, but they haven't released the Expression Light Kit for the rushes yet. So I know for a fact adding an Expression Light Kit into this would really add to the overall experience. So I'm all for it. Like, I personally, I think every game, like, I wish every Stern game had an Expression Light Kit. I just, I trust the team to code it in a way that it would add. like Godzilla. If a Godzilla had expression lighting, you can't tell me they can't make it feel like the destruction jackpots and everything. You don't think they couldn't use those lights in a really cool manner. You look at Mando, like Dwight, Dwight's all about having multiple GI colors. Like Turtles has red bulbs, green bulbs, and white bulbs for GI. And he does some crazy stuff with that. Mando has some weird things. Oh my god, if Dwight got a hold of those things We'd all be blind. If Dwight had expressed a liking. So I'm like team. Every LE owner would get a seizure. Oh, wow. It would happen. Dwight would figure it out. That is me. I'm on like, I am team light show. You know, like put more in there and let the designers code. So that to me is I hope Toy Story has the hot rails. Because if their view is that people won't want them, then just give them the ability to turn them off. But I guarantee there's going to be more people that are going to want them than not want them. I think there's overdoing light shows, though, too. Do you have an example? How about that? Do you have an example of a light show that you feel is too much? Guns N' Roses.
    45:27
    On some of the songs. On some of the songs, you can't tell what to shoot. Okay. And a few of them. So is that a Hot Rails issue, or is that just there's too many blinky lights on the play field? There's too many blinky lights on the play field. I don't think it's a Hot Rails issue.
    45:44
    Yeah. Well, the standard, what bothered me about the standard was the standard Hot Rails are just white. That, to me, I could just see as distracting. Like, I don't see how that is just flashing white bars. I know that there was a wizard mode on Mandalorian that would make you go just pure blind. I can't remember which one it was, but it's with the red lights. I don't know if it was the Encounters wizard mode because it's been a little while since I played it, but there was one that just basically the lights would go so bright and dark at the same time. I think it was red, if I remember right. Probably the Encounters one. Yeah, I couldn't even tell where the ball was at during the wizard mode. So, I mean, I think like Tom said, there's a place for it to where you're overdoing it and underdoing it. So for me personally, as somebody that's playing the game, I much prefer to see the light show whenever I do something on the game. And if it's going to be a super bright light show with all the bells and whistles, I'd like for the ball to be stopped momentarily so I could actually kind of enjoy it a little bit. But I do acknowledge that sometimes just a pure light show of just like an explosion of lights just comes with the territory because not every game can have that stop and go for certain shots that happen. Okay. So you want the light show, yeah, where you lock the ball or you destroyed whatever, like give me the fancy light show there. Yeah, I mean, it just depends. I mean, there's different levels to it. But then at the same time, these coders, they have to deal with or they have to work with the hand that they're dealt. Because since they're not the ones designing the game, they've got to make the code around whatever design they have. So it's understandable how sometimes it might feel like it's not perfect or doesn't feel like it's in sync sometimes. And that goes for all games across all eras. That's just not one particular game. I mean, it happens just under different conditions. I mean, you could even be on a game on location to where the lighting isn't that good in the facility itself. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, the game just gets super bright because you did something, even though the game wasn't meant to be that bright overall. And it kind of, it sometimes just pops you and distracts you out of nowhere. So, I mean, it's just, and that happens on solid states as well. So, I mean, it's just, there's just different levels to it. But at the same time, it's like nobody, I wouldn't think, people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't think somebody is necessarily coding a game thinking, well, how will a tournament player feel about this light show under these conditions? I think that they're just making it just look kick ass and what looks cool and what blends together. I mean, that's, and that's really what it's all about at the end of the day. Yeah. Well, I will tell, I will say that, I mean, Led Zeppelin came out, I really enjoyed the expression light kit. And I remember thinking to myself, whatever game's coming next out next, this turn, like, I hope, I hope expression lighting is a thing. Like that's a new thing from here on out. And when they announced Mando, I was bummed. I was bummed to see that, that I was like, well, maybe Mando was too far along to like wedge those in. You know, maybe Expression Lighting was kind of experimental and they didn't want to just, you know. So I was like, maybe on the next one. Well, the next one was Godzilla. No Expression Lighting. And it's like, oh, OK, well, I hope that's not just a one time thing. So it didn't surprise me to see him in Rush. I think it's fitting. But to me, I mean, I still I'm on team. I wish every game I wish every Stern game from here on out had Expression Lighting. And I absolutely hope every JJP game from here on out, with the worst case being, you know, Stern, if you don't want to express your opinion, don't put it in the game. Or JJP, if you have the hot rails and you don't like them, you know, as long as you give me an option to dim them or turn them off, then I feel like that satisfies a whole lot more people than – because you guys know, if they announce Toy Story tomorrow and there's no hot rails, there will be people that will be upset. I mean, I would be one of them. So I think it would be silly to leave them out personally. Would it stop you from buying it, though?
    49:42
    No, probably not. That's the thing. When you think about peripherals to go on a game or any type of add-on or accessory or anything like that, I don't think it's just one of those things that you think about it from the point of view that if this isn't on the game, does it affect sales? and I don't necessarily believe that expression lights affects the cells and I don't necessarily believe that hot rails affects the cells I think if you don't have the hot rails on the LEs for GNR they probably would still sell and people would still enjoy the game I think it's going to so regard like JCP has known play field issues right now and there are still people that are just ready to buy the game And I don't know how much they have to strip out for it to actually affect sales. Right, and that's what I'm getting at. I don't think it's necessarily an accessory or an add-on to the game that just increases sales just hand over fist. Okay. I'm not saying it doesn't do it at all, but, I mean, obviously Stern realizes that expression lights aren't really meant to drive sales in that regard. Otherwise, it would be placed on every game. I think that that's why they made a conscious decision to put it on the rock or the music theme pens because it's been on Led Zeppelin. It's been on Rush. And for them, that makes a lot of sense. Whereas if that was on a Godzilla, I don't know, theme-wise, would that really make all the sense? I mean, really the only thing you could truly do with those lights to where you could integrate it with the theme if you put it on the Godzilla is like if you were doing Heat Ray and it just mimicked Godzilla's Heat Ray going out. I can't really think. You know what I mean? I think there's just a time and place for it is what I'm getting at. I think for certain themes, like I know for a fact the immersion that I would have experienced from Rush would have been greatly improved if it had the expression like kids. Oh, yeah, no doubt. Because it's songs. You want to rock out to the songs and you want the songs to feel different. Like Godzilla, I bet my immersion would increase if it had it, but I don't think it would be nearly the same amount as Rush or the feeling I felt when I went from Led Zeppelin to without expression. Right, and you hit the nail on the head, though. That's exactly why a lot of people, including myself, says that GNR is so much more fun if you're playing it at home because the light show is going to be the same whether you're at home or on location, but the sound is going to be incredibly different, And that's part of the package right there. It's just straight up weird if you're playing a GNR on location and you can't hear the music, but yet the lights are just going everywhere. It doesn't feel like it goes together. It's a very disjointed experience. And I think you get that across the board. Even if you're playing a Led Zeppelin with the expression lights on location, you can't hear the music. Or you're playing Rush and you can't hear the music. But when you play those situational pens at home and you can hear the music and you get the light package along with it, I think those two things go together very well, and that's what makes the experience well worth it. So random side tangent, and it's because I've been reading up about this has been a hot topic on the Deadpool forum, but audio upgrades to your pinball machines. So, like, Tom, do you do anything to your pinball machines in an audio way to improve the audio experience of your pinball machines? I used to. I used to upgrade the speakers, but I don't necessarily do them on the newer sterns anymore. Okay. Maybe because the LEs already have the upgraded speakers. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't tend to do it anymore. I haven't bought any of those mods, or I don't add a subwoofer to the bottom, which I know a lot of people do.
    53:30
    Yeah, Travis is shaking his head like a madman. He's like, he likes the subwoofer. Yeah, I love subwoofers on a game. I think it totally changes it. I mean, if you have a Mandalorian, buy a subwoofer, put it on there, the game will be just meant for you. I mean, it's awesome hearing the music to that. I did the same thing with Star Wars. It was awesome. When I had Iron Maiden and I switched all the songs to hip-hop and I put on a subwoofer with it, it's excellent. I mean, same thing with the Beatles. I mean, it just makes the sound just that much deeper. It just feels immersive. I much prefer a subwoofer than I do a shaker motor. Like, 10 to 1. I think it's one of the best modifications you can make to your gaming experience. And I'm not, like, a huge mod guy, though. I modded the heck out of my Tron, but that's really the only game where I put a ton of mods into it. All right. That's fair. Drink up.
    54:26
    So two things. First off, I'm a little disappointed. For whatever reason, Travis, I really thought you'd say subwoofer in a really strange way. Like, I just assumed that was a word that you couldn't pronounce. How do you think I was going to pronounce that? I don't know. Sub-woofer? Woofer or woofer or something silly. Woofer? I don't know. Hey, congrats. Way to speak the English language. Thank you. I appreciate it. But the second thing, so this is a really hot topic because there are some people that absolutely are like, you've got to add a sub to every game. The subs that are in the cabinet suck. Then there's entire companies like Penn Woofer. That's an entire company that adds an external amp. So it's like the built-in amp to a Stern game sucks. Like, so you're wasting your money increasing the speakers if you're not increasing the power that's being fed to the speakers, while other people are like, no, you don't have to spend $200-plus on that. Just going from the, whatever, 4.5-inch speakers to a 5-point-something Kenwood or something, kind of the speakers that are NLEs, you're going to feel a drastic increase there. So this is a very hot topic. The reason I bring it up is I add a headphone adapter to every game I play, and it's twofold. One, I stream. So when I stream, I do direct out. That way I can get the audio directly captured into the stream. And then two, when I'm when I'm streaming, I can I hear it in my headphones. But I also I typically play at night and my kids are asleep. So like the idea of adding a subwoofer to my cabinet, I just feel like it would be something I never feel like I could turn on. I did have one when I owned a Hobbit. This was before I had kids. I added a sub and it was awesome. Like hearing Smaug like talk, you know, like rumbled. It was very cool. But I have really grown accustomed to wearing headphones and it's amazing the audio that are in these games, like the sounds that you hear and the call outs and the little noises in the background. Like it is sad to me that I feel like these audio engineers are putting in a ton of time and I feel like 25% of what they put, nobody actually hears it unless you upgrade the speakers or unless you have headphones. I don't know. Have you guys noticed that? Have you guys experienced that? No, it's 100%. I mean, the game experience becomes totally different if you're at home. So for anybody listening to this podcast, if you have a favorite game on location that you play a lot,
    56:49
    I guarantee if you get it at home and you do, even if you don't do these upgrades, it's much different just playing at home. being able to hear everything and not having any of the distractions or external noise coming into play, just blocking whatever it is that you need to hear. But, yeah, if you fix the game up to where the audio just is crisp, yeah, it's a unique experience. And, I mean, I'm not much of a, I guess, what would it be called, an audiophile? It's like I know the very basics of it, but I have a lot of friends that aren't pinball people that are audiophiles, audio files, and they've told me exactly what I need to do with the pen in order to get the most sound and the most bang for my buck. And surprisingly, it's really not that expensive, which is kind of shocking to me. But that being said, have I ever followed what they said? No, but I probably should because, I mean, even with just the subwoofer, it sounds great. I've never changed the speakers out because I noticed that I guess on most of the Stearns it like Kenwood that they use now And I guess they used JBL in the past I not for sure I know there different types of speakers in the past but I mean overall it seems like it okay But, yeah, just once you get a subwoofer on, it just changes everything. And if you get headphones on, it definitely changes everything just because that audio just sounds so much more crisp. And it just, I don't know, I guess sometimes it feels like the sound just is that much more immersive around you to where you don't necessarily miss out on any of the little nuances and call-outs or anything like that. Yeah, I agree. Tom's shaking his head. I think he agrees. I agree. There we go. That's all that matters. We didn't have that last episode. I would have just started talking. But, you know, now you just gave Travis the little bit of affirmation he needed. So appreciate it. Feeling it, Tom.
    58:35
    I'm glad I'm here. Definitely, Tom. So after that short answer from Joel about Toy Story, you know, so one of the things I was just coming back to that whether or not it's going to be Toy Story 1 or if it's going to be all four movies put together, you know, what I'm interested in with that is that would drastically alter the design, I feel like. Because obviously if you're just focused on one movie, you're going to focus on the action that happened in that movie. The modes are going to reflect the action in that movie. but if you have all four movies, obviously your modes are going to be a lot more spaced out. So I'm very curious about that because when it came to star Wars, one of my biggest gripes about the star Wars pen with Stern is that they tried to encompass in tire trilogy. And it just made the whole experience from a narrative standpoint, feel very disjointed because you'd be playing a scene from one movie that might happen in empire or return of the Jedi. And then the next thing you might be playing something from a new hope. So I'm very curious to see how that's handled from the perspective that there's multiple movies out to draw from and that each of those movies, the scenes really are in a certain chronological order. I mean, with Andy getting older, with new characters coming in, with characters going through certain experiences. I mean, that's what Toy Story was really good at from a narrative standpoint is you actually felt like these characters were going through something new. like Buzz Lightyear coming in and being the fresh face and Woody having to deal with that. And then you're dealing with new characters coming in each movie. So I don't know. For me, I'm curious to see how they deal with that because I have it in my head that if the whole movie is just based off the first movie, right, or the whole pen is just based off the first movie, that you'd have like a giant crane hand going around because of the three little alien guys that were in the arcade. That claw. Yeah, exactly. I feel like that has to be in there no matter what, with that exact call-out as well. If that's not in there, I feel like that would be a huge miss. Travis ain't buying it. He's not going to buy it. It better be in there. No, it better have the call. But there's so many iconic things of that movie, though, and of the whole series. And that's going to be the rough part, that when you have such an iconic series, there's bound to be iconic portions of the series just left out. And so I'm curious to see what gets left out, what gets put in, and that's really what I'm going to be paying attention to the most. Tom, I feel like you had something. Yeah, I was going to call Travis K-Man.
    61:17
    I think it's hard to do a linear pin, though. Yeah. You know, as far as mapping the story out. I mean, look at Wonka. I mean, it's kind of.
    61:33
    You know, it doesn't follow the movie scene by scene. In a chronological way, yeah. Yeah. I think that's really hard to do in a pinball scenario. I think I would just like to see, again, I don't know how to code, so obviously I accept that it's very difficult. I'm just saying that I would like to see something to where maybe you can choose a path, right, which path you want to go. Do I want to play the first movie? Do I want to play the second movie? Do I want to play the third movie? To where somehow you could choose that, whether it's early on, before hitting start, before whatever. Because there's games like, for instance, Ninja Turtles, right? We can pick what turtle we're going to use. True. So why can't we pick a movie, right, to where that determines your first couple of modes that you're going to play before a mini wizard mode? It puts you on a certain path that you go on. I mean, I don't know. Maybe that can't be done. I've just always wondered why something like that hasn't been done. But then it also harkens back to I've always wondered why in these pinball themes that come out with the movies and everything, why nobody's ever tried to just put, like, for instance, if Jersey Jack decided to do Toy Story 1, right, and that's the pin that came out this year. And then next year, Toy Story 2. in the following year, Toy Story 3, to where you just have your pins in sequential order to where you could get a fully fleshed out game and you get your pins on it. You know, Travis, I have money. I just don't have that much money.
    63:06
    I mean, yeah, we've had people say that. Like if Harry Potter, if they ever did Harry Potter, don't like, do you just do Harry Potter 1 or are you going to do seven Harry Potter pins? I mean, like what do you do? I don't know. It would be too convoluted. I mean, it's kind of like pirates. That's what happened with that. It was just from Jersey Jack. It was just so overwhelming with everything. I'm just trying to think. When I think of Toy Story, I mean, it's been a while since I've seen the movies, but essentially in Toy Story 1. There's a cowboy doll in it. Okay.
    63:36
    In Toy Story 1, the villain is Sid, the next door neighbor, right? So it's like you could have an entire path, like, interacting. I mean, that whole storyline, the Sid storyline. In Toy Story 2, I'm pretty sure the bad guy is Emperor Zurg, right? Like, he's actually in the game. I think he's the bad guy, but I know Jesse's in there, and there's the whole, like, collector dude because they meet the – I don't even know if I've seen Toy Story 2. It's kind of a movie everybody forgot about. Well, like, Zurg could absolutely be kind of a pathway.
    64:09
    What else is there? There's, like, Toy Story – I don't even remember. There's a Toy Story 3. Well, one of them has, like, the daycare. Like, the pink bear is, like, the bad guy. That's Toy Story 3. Yeah, that's Toy Story 3. That's a good one. Toy Story 4, I don't remember, like, who the bad guy is. I haven't seen that either. The bad guy is. But there's enough of those other – there's plenty of other interactions there where the army men are going out to do surveillance. You know, like, that could be its own mode. Like, get the information. Or, like, birthday. You know, if there's a birthday, what's the gift? You know, like, that could be a whole thing.
    64:43
    I don't – like, obviously the scene at the end of Toy Story 1 where they're trying to catch up to the van, And like that is a very iconic scene where, you know, you have to hit shots in a certain way to progress to get back to Andy in the van. Pizza Planet, like Pizza Planet alone could be its own mode of being in Pizza Planet and interacting with the different. Like there's enough here that I think in four movies kind of like they could be kind of you could do them out of order. But the, you know, escaping Sid's backyard would kind of have to you can't just dive right into that. you'd have to work towards that. I don't know. I mean. You got me convinced they just need to do Toy Story 1. So hopefully Jersey Jack is listening, and if they put all four movies in, they'll just fix it for the next couple weeks and just leave the first one in. That's the answer. Or you're saying give me a, like, but at the same time, whatever, the Buzz Lightyear scene where he's put into the Spanish mode, like put into the wrong language is hilarious. That would be hilarious. I would be so bummed if that's let out. Like, that's such a great, memorable thing. Spanish-speaking Buzz Lightyear acting totally different. Like, I don't know. I mean. That would be cool if they coded it to where you could just pick your movie at the very beginning, and then you just have your path picked out, and somehow that the inserts and the art just easily reflect being able to go from movie to movie. Well, look at Stranger Things. Stranger Things had a season one path and a season two path, and you could play the different episodes essentially, but once you got far enough in there, there were many wizard modes specific to Season 1. Like you could do the Season 1 wizard mode before you do any of the episodes of Season 2, or you could do the opposite. Like there are ways to do it. Now just imagine if you could pause the game and just watch the movie on the LCD screen, Tom. Shoot.
    66:37
    Yeah. Pinball! Yeah, not watch the movie. I don't know. Well, we're excited about Toy Story. We don't have to – I mean, we're kind of in a wait-and-see situation. I do think it's happening sooner than later, though. Like, I do think, I don't know, like somewhere in June would be awesome.
    66:55
    No comment. Okay. What I've heard is I can never confirm or deny. That's what I need to – that's the thing to say. Could be November of 2022. I'm really glad you guys are good at listing months. So, well done. Didn't some of these companies say that they were going to release two games this year? Hey, the year's not over, Tom. You know? Your company said they're releasing two games. JJP has for years, and I think American Pitbull.
    67:22
    They've all for years said that they're going to release two games in 2022? No, they've been saying, like, every year they're going to release two games. Okay, eventually they'll be right. It'll happen at some point. All right, so Toy Story. So we knocked that out. Bam, done, check.
    67:39
    Yeah. I was going to say, and this is, we were talking about audio. All JJP owners, you have a headphone jack automatically in your game. Walk over, plug a set of headphones in, and play the game. You will hear stuff you haven't heard before. And if you like that experience but you don't like wearing headphones, then maybe it is worth investing in better speakers in your game so that you can hear that more often. Otherwise, just enjoy the headphones. It's pretty great. four there was they recently shared on pinside or not on pinside on facebook there was a flood at stern back to that rain that travis was talking about yeah i don't i mean none of us know to what impact but this was well i have to i have to say thank you on our facebook page feel free to find us and follow us on facebook triple dream podcast we had thrown out an instagram as well we had thrown out like hey we're recording tonight what do you guys want us to talk about and we actually got a lot of people that that threw some stuff out and and there was a person that mentioned the stern flood do we feel like this is going to affect games coming out i would assume yes as far as i know the flood wasn't like hey one of our main water you know pipes that ran across our entire factory burst and and sprayed water over everything we own it wasn't that it seems like it's more like a standing water type of flood. So I don't know. I don't know if they have games in boxes and there's a chance that it got high enough that it ruined those. I don't know. I would hope that most of these games are being built or the assembly lines are high enough off the ground that standing water isn't ruining things. But if there truly is standing water in a factory, they're going to have to get that out before people can work in a safe manner. So it may have not destroyed games, but it may have delayed games. As far as I know, as of this podcast, they updated earlier that they said that it was a water pipe that burst under the ground or underneath the floor. Okay. I know that the picture that they put out, it's on their Facebook, and you could see people in the background, I guess, eating. They just happened to be there in their lunch break with Uncle Gary giving a thumbs up. Like nothing's going on. I'm on my lunch break. I don't care if the place is flooding. but there was no water around so it looked like it was okay.
    70:03
    Yeah, if you want to jump in muddy puddles, you must wear your boots. That would be a Peppa Pig quote for all the parents out there.
    70:11
    I'm lost on that one too. It's for the little kids. That's truly Peppa Pig. It's a kid's show but they preach that. If you want to jump in muddy puddles, you must wear your boots. You've covered our four to six year old demographic. Good job, Greg. They're not parents, Travis. You know, some of us enjoy parenting our children. So, you know.
    70:31
    That's what Monica's for. Oh, wow. That's what the pinball machines are for. That's the babysitter right there.
    70:39
    All right. So, Flooded Stern, I don't know. Is it going to slow them down? Maybe. But, I mean, they can go to water. I mean, they got some squeegees out. They got the water out. It's fine. Everybody's eating in the waiting area. Gary Stern's giving a thumbs up. They're still giving scores. Yeah, it's fine. They'll still take games out before Raza comes out. I mean, it's good. We're good. The floors have never looked better. They're nice and clean now.
    71:04
    All right. Well, we did actually have a lot of people that responded with questions, and a lot of them were actually about, like, current pinball pricing, prices of used games, pinball bubble. I mean, really broad topic here. I've heard the bubble's going to burst for the last ten years. I mean, it's just getting bigger and bigger. I, well, I've talked a lot. Travis, what are your thoughts on pinball prices? Like, do you have any new thoughts? You can't comment. Do I have any thoughts on pinball pricing? Like, is that a fear? Do you fear that we are at an all-time high and it's going to pop? Or somebody had mentioned apparently like the stock market or crypto is kind of taking a dip recently. So is pinball the follow? So, I mean, if we're in a bubble and it quote-unquote pops, I don't think that that means the prices on games from Stern, American Pinball, Jersey Jack, or whoever else is producing games. Those prices don't fall. I think all that means is that third-party market would have a little bit rougher time. I think it just means that people that are wanting to flip a game might have a little bit more difficult time. But overall, the reality is, is that unless all of a sudden inflation just stops and somehow we all get in a time machine and go back three years. I mean, where is the pricing going to go? Because the materials still cost what they cost now. Shipping still costs what it costs now. I mean, shipping prices have gone way up just in the past four months alone. I mean, if anybody's been paying attention, those have gone up considerably. So, I mean, these prices really don't have anywhere to go. So, I mean, all that's going to happen is that people decide to stop buying games a little bit, right? But I don't think that that's going to affect Stern as much. There's a reason why Stern went up to 1,000 games for LEs. There's a reason why they're producing more games than ever before because there's tons of buyers out there, and there's a lot of people that have entered the hobby since 2020. I mean, it's not just people. So, I mean, pre-COVID, yeah, we were humming pretty good. Ignore that, Joel. It's coming right back on. You can't ignore the fact. Your camera, you suck at technology, Travis. It is unbelievable how bad you are with your technology. Why are we not recording this? I mean, if people want to look at a black screen for Travis's face, sure, let's do a video podcast. All right, please ignore those two idiots. Thank God Tom, you stream tournaments and not Travis. That's all I can say.
    73:46
    What I'm getting at is I don't think the prices are going to go down for the unbox. That's just not going to happen. I think, if anything, prices are just going to keep going up because they have to keep pace with what material costs are and with what costs are overall. I mean, salaries are going up for people, so wages are going up. You have all these soft costs that I know people aren't thinking about, but the fact is is that manufacturing pinball at scale is not cheap. There's nothing cheap about it. So I think the only thing that you'll see affect it overall is just third-party market. I think that that's the main thing that you'll see. And, yeah, that's my TED Talk. Thanks for coming. You know, there are moments where you actually sound kind of smart.
    74:32
    Until my camera goes out. You said, like, I didn't say you look smart. I said you sounded smart. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's fair.
    74:39
    I don't know, Tom, you've been in this hobby longer than both of us. I mean, is this like a fear? Do you feel like you've been on a roller coaster or, like, I don't know, do you feel like there's a time to cash out or what? No. When I first got into this hobby, it was almost dead. So, I mean, it was a good time to buy used games, honestly. but uh uh i mean yeah i mean when i got into this hobby probably the year after that that was when stern almost went under and that was around the time of uh you know uh big buck hunter and avatar and iron man and uh i i don't see that happening i could see maybe some companies closing their doors, but I, you know, who knows? I mean, I don't think anybody ever thought Williams would close or not do pinball, and look what happened there. So, I mean, it just depends on the economy and everything, but I don't think, I don't have a fear of it at this point. I mean, pinball has really skyrocketed in sales and even recognition.
    76:05
    It's not huge in the mainstream world, but it's certainly bigger than it has been. There's ebb and flow to everything. What I can say is that the ones that are listening to this podcast and the ones that consume content online, whether it's Facebook, YouTube, or audio, that the industry and the hobby is so much bigger. There's so many people out there that don't bother consuming any of this content. They don't bother getting on forums. They don't bother getting on Facebook groups. And it's just from what I've seen, I would gladly predict that the majority of people do not consume content in that fashion that are into pinball, whether they're buying pinball or whether they're going on location to play pinball. I mean, there's a reason why if you go to a place like TPF, you saw it, Joel. Yeah. How many people were just there? Yeah. You know, I mean, even though that was a big tournament, right, with TPF, with the Wizards tournament and all that, it seemed like the majority of people were all in the vendor hall, you know, and that's, I mean, even Expo. You guys kind of got a glimpse of everybody that was out there. So, I mean, and that's just the thing. It's just easy for all of us to kind of get stuck in our own little ecosystem and our own little bubble because we're all used to living and breathing pinball. And the reality is there is so many people out here that play pinball and they own pinball, but they may not live and breathe it. I mean, it's the same way. I have an Xbox. I have a PlayStation. I don't go on Xbox forums every single day. You know, I have a camera. I have a camera that I try to use. Maybe you should go on some forums for that. I don't go on any forums to figure out how it works properly, so there you go. I mean, that's just the way it is. Like, people will collect, people will still play, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they engage with the actual community. And I think that's what a lot of people don't necessarily realize, that because of that, the actual engagement within the community doesn't necessarily accurately represent the amount of people that enjoy the hobby outside of that. Yeah, I absolutely think you're right. I know when I started the hobby, I passed my five-year mark. You know, that way I can actually do media. And, you know, early on I was hoping. I was hoping that, like, I have some realtor friends that, like, maybe I'd get lucky. When they're showing a house or seeing a house, they'd see a pinball machine in a garage or something and be like, hey, you know, feel free to give out my number or something. Like, maybe I'll get lucky. I'll get a random garage sale find or something. I'll be able to find that. I feel like pinball is big enough. I mean, Tom had a little news video of him. You know, it's growing enough for becoming popular enough that the people that may have a pinball machine in their basement at this point with COVID, especially with spending so much time in their house, may have actually looked it up or looked at the price. And the used market is the biggest market that I haven't. I don't see those deals out there. I don't see those.
    79:06
    I mean, there are probably still some out there, but that's the biggest market. and I mentioned that earlier that I was thinking, oh, yeah, my parents could be able to spend, you know, like $2,500 and get a real, you know, kind of a beat-up taxi, but we put a little money in it and they're going to have a fully playable game. Like, no way. Like, even a beat-up taxi now, you're pushing $4,000. I mean, it's just, and that's U.S. dollar, but it's just absurd. So the way that I look at my collection is, I mean, if you look at your collection as an investment and you're like, well, it's nice that I can play these games, but at some point in time I'm happy to cash out and make bank, then fine. I mean, cash out today. You're going to make more money than you made before.
    79:48
    But is there a chance that things are going to go up? Probably. But I hope you don't look at your collection that way. I look at it more as this is my collection. If there's a chance that two years from now my TNA or my Deadpool or Turtles is going to be worth $1,000 less than it does today, whatever, It's still going to be equal, though, to other games in that area. So I'm not looking to cash out of the hobby. If anything, if I go to sell a game, it's because I want to replace it with something else. So I'm happy to ride the value up and down because it doesn't matter. Like, I can still trade it towards another game. Like, I'm just glad I have games. Like, I'm glad I have games that I can swap around at whatever value they are. It doesn't matter to me compared to somebody brand new in the hobby that it's like, does it make sense for me to try to pay premium price now? Or should I wait for the bubble to burst and then try to buy a game? You know, that kind of thing. I think the bubble, you know, bursting thing is more so, you know, games that, you know, Stern has in their backlog that haven't come out. And people are selling them on the secondary market for more than a new one box. once those games become available again, you know, obviously the price of the skyrocketing of people selling them secondhand is going to go down. Well, what's weird with that thought, because the first thing that popped in my head was like Avengers. When Avengers first came out and everybody was like, this game's great. Like it became a really hot game. People wanted it. So people were buying them. They were buying them over MSRP or they're buying them used over MSRP because they could get them now. They could have them right now. Well, Avengers has been out a little while, and now there are distributors that have them in stock. You could buy them today. So in my mind, it's like, oh, you can buy it at MSRP. It won't be over MSRP. But that's not necessarily true because the games today, the MSRP of that game is higher than it was when the game came out. That's true.
    81:54
    It's all buzzwords, Joel. You'll figure that out. When it comes down to brass tacks, it all becomes buzzwords. I mean, and that's exactly what happens with people predicting a bubble. You know, I mean, people say that, but what does it really mean in terms of pinball? Does that mean that pros all of a sudden become $5,000 overnight? Like new inbox? Does that mean LEs go down to $8,000? So that's why I think when people talk about a pinball bubble, I think we're very much talking about the third-party market, and we're not talking about new inbox. because even when the economy takes a downturn, which we're kind of seeing that with how the stock market's going and everything, the people that aren't going to stop buying games for their game room is people that already have a lot of money in the bank. They value their time at home. They value game rooms at home, and they value entertainment at home. And I think everybody learned a harsh lesson during the COVID times, during all the lockdowns that we all realize, well, wait a second, it can actually be taken away from us simply going outside under certain circumstances, which I think was a wake-up call for a lot of people that maybe they put a premium on what they have at home. And we all realize that one of those premiums happens to be pinball as a form of entertainment. I know the argument's gone back and forth over console gaming and pinball and this and that, but let's just, Let's call a spade a spade. Playing pinball is just cool. It's just fun. And it gives you an experience that no console game, whether it's 4K on an 80-inch TV, can give you. And a lot of people have discovered that, and a lot of people are realizing the themes that they loved as a kid, whether it's the Avengers comics or whether it's Star Wars or any type of music pen. Even music pens, they hold their value very well over time because there's still going to be music fans. and just like we talked about before, Joel, when people enter pinball, they're discovering all these themes for the first time. They don't realize Metallica's been out for nearly a decade. They don't realize ACDC has been out for over a decade. You know, they don't realize Star Trek has been like that. They just see these themes and it's the first time they've seen them. So there's always going to be a market for new people coming in regardless. I think just what we'll see is a downturn in the third-party market. I think you'll see some solid-state games finally level off with the pricing. I think you'll see EMs come back down to earth where you're not going to see the $1,500 to $2,000 EMs that you see some people putting out. I think you'll see those level off a little bit. And I think that's what to really expect. So if I was in a buying mood and I had to make a prediction right now, I would say I'd be trying to save back my money for certain solid states and certain EMs that I had my eye on, and I'd be ready to pull the trigger in due time. That's the way I'd be looking at it. So you're saying like I've mentioned taxi a few times. Taxi is a game that I love. Is today the day to buy a taxi? In my opinion, probably not. Like if I don't mind waiting, there's a good chance. It's already old. So if you have to wait a year and there's a chance that, sure, that bubble bursts and all of a sudden my taxi is cheaper, you can get it then. But I don't, I don't, like for the people that are new or want to get in on this hobby, I don't have a cheap solution for you. I don't have a, I don't have. I don't know. I don't have a good recommendation other than if you can afford to buy new in box, if you hate the game, you're going to be able to sell it and not lose money. Well, the key is if you take it from the standpoint that it's not an investment, because I know there's a lot of people out there that view pinball as an investment. Myself, I don't view pinball as an investment. I view it as a toy that I bring into my house to have fun with. And sometimes it'll cost a little bit more to get it right then and there. It's the same way if a movie comes out. I'm not going to wait 45 days for it to come out on streaming. I'm going to go ahead and take the family and pay the $60, $80 it costs us to go to the movies because I want to watch that movie. Yeah. You know, I want that satisfaction right then and there. So I think if it comes down to if you do have the funds and it's within your budget, because I'm not going to tell people to go way over their budget and just make a stretch. Like, definitely don't make sacrifices for it. Take out a loan. Yeah. Exactly.
    86:12
    But I would say that if you happen to have the budget and you find a game that you really want to play, I mean, me, I'm the type that just says just pull the trigger, have fun playing it, and once you're done, sell it for whatever the market deems is worthy. If you happen to lose $500 off it, well, guess what? Probably in that year or two years, you had more than $500 worth of fun. You know, I don't think you're worrying too much about it because if you're worried about how much your pen is worth and all this and that, I don't know. I not gonna say you in it for the wrong reasons because everybody has their own view of how they like to do the Hobby and some people like playing that game to where they don want to lose any money And it like a badge of pride Me I the type of guy that sold a Ghostbusters pro at a few years ago Yeah. So, you know, it is what it is. I just enjoy playing pinball and I would just encourage anybody out there that if you have a dream theme and it's within your budget and you're looking at it and it's right there, like, why not? Why, why wait a year on a what if? Because what if, It doesn't come to fruition. What you're hoping happens. What if prices go higher? Now what do you do? Now you're sitting on the sidelines even longer. Your pin isn't going to be – well, I mean, there's exceptions, right? But, like, the majority of pins out there, it's not like even if the economy tanks, your pin isn't now worth half of what you paid for it. Like, it'll take a dip. It's not going to be drastic.
    87:32
    And I just think there's – the biggest issue right now in pinball is scarcity. There's not enough games. So it's not like all of a sudden everybody's going to be selling and it's like, oh, there's too many people. There's too much. There's no demand. I just, I don't, I'm not, I'm not an economy expert, but luckily, go ahead. No, I was going to say in the 12 plus years I've been in the hobby, maybe even longer than that. Holy crap. It's been like 14 years. but in the time I've been in the hobby I've never really seen games like tank in value except for one and that was medieval madness maybe attack from mars when the remakes were made but now you can't get the remakes and then the price went back up so what I'm trying to say is I mean yes the prices don't necessarily go down that much. So, yeah, all the remake games, so Monster Bash as well, and then Cactus Canyon, and then Fathom. You know, Fathom used to be crazy expensive. The only exceptions to that were new in-box games because as soon as you opened them, the price would drop in value as soon as you started playing it. That's not the case now. Not anymore, yeah.
    88:57
    But it could get back to that. It could, but I think that's crazy about, like, if you actually want to look at a smart financial decision, like, a certain LE, almost every LE even opened and played is selling for more than whatever you paid for it. Like, it's insane. It's absolutely insane. You've got to make an effort to lose money on an LE.
    89:19
    You've got to make a pretty good effort. But then again, because of Joel, the price of Halloweens have dropped. Yeah, because of Joel. My bad. Way to go, Joel. I know. Pinball prices are definitely a topic. I think it's a valid topic, but it's also one of those I don't know. I don't know just because I'm not personally in this right now where it's like you have money and you feel like, do I pull the trigger now or should I wait or do I need to save? I don't know. I'm not in that. I'm not playing that game in my head. Or do you have a game that you're like, I want to sell it, but does it make sense to sell today? or should I play guys? I mean, there's just as much value in just taking your money, too, and just taking a trip to one of these pinball meccas and just playing for a weekend and getting to play every version of different games that you've never gotten a chance to play before. Absolutely. I mean, that right there, I mean, there's a lot of value in that, too, and it might open up your eyes to something different that you weren't expecting to enjoy, that you never got a chance to play. So I absolutely agree with that, by the way. You know, if you have the chance to play games, play the games. And you're going to find, I mean, that's what I, my view on pinball has changed drastically over the five plus years I've been in it because I've played games and found certain games really appeal to me that I wasn't expecting or there's games that didn't and now do.
    90:39
    Yeah. But one example I do want to bring up is my neighbor, they have, they have a golf cart and they, they, they go around the neighborhood in it all the time. And I remember I asked them, just was like, Hey, just, just like hype. I was like, how much did that cost you? because he bought it used, and he's put in a little money upgrading it or whatever. And we live in a cool neighborhood where there's a bunch of stuff we could drive to within golf cart range. Does he have the centers? Is that what you're going to say? No, no, he didn't. He's got stereo? He does have a stereo in it, but it's not even the bells and whistles. I just like the idea of being able to drive to the supermarket and back in a golf cart. It sounds pretty great. But anyway. Oh, yeah, let's drive golf carts in the neighborhood. Awesome. It's so cool. I know you're mocking it, but it's awesome. No, I agree. No, I'm not mocking it. I'm saying it's awesome. Okay. Thank you for the support. I need a thumbs down. Thank you. Yeah. You're real cool there. So, anyways, the golf cart I just asked for, he's like, I think I have like $3,600 in it. Well, apparently his neighbor went to the same place that he had bought his used just a month ago. So, he said four years ago he bought it for $3,600. Today, if he bought the same, essentially the exact same thing, $6,800. Like, it has doubled. Doubled in price for the exact same thing. like a used golf cart. So obviously pinball isn't the only place that's experiencing this. Pretty much all recreational things, you know, I would assume. I don't know. I'm assuming pools have gone up, swing sets, anything. Any recreational home thing has gone up.
    92:11
    But I don't know. I'm not in the golf cart business where I want to buy a bunch now and then sell them in a year and, you know, cash out. No, I don't know. What is cool about this is – You should go flip golf carts. Flip golf carts, yeah. Where are all the toppers? What happened to the Mando and – They're not out yet. Godzilla and Rush. You're ready to buy all of them. I know. I know, especially the Rush one. Well, Tom, if you listened to our last podcast, we actually established that toppers bring a lot of value to the game and how Joel got his Deadpool topper. Thursday, the Deadpool topper will be here. when Zach comes to flip out the game. So I'll give a good review. It'll be great. We need a golf cart with a topper. Give it to Joel. I think it's just the most golf cart topper. Why would you drive a golf cart without any golf clubs? That's what I want to know.
    93:05
    I don't even want to entertain your question because it's awesome. It's awesome. What do you do with a golf cart in your neighborhood? This is like the Johnny Depp trail. You have to drive to pick up food. So why would I get in the man van, the minivan, and just go? Why do people ride motorcycles? Do you guys roll up to Brahms or Sonic or McDonald's with a golf cart? Have you seen the gas prices? It's an electric golf cart. I'm telling you the joy that we're on my kids face. Elon Musk over here with a golf cart.
    93:37
    And his Tesla golf cart. His Tesla golf cart. Does it have an LCD in that? I just want to feel the wind blowing up my shorts and then flying up. I have one question about the golf cart. Does it have a cooler in it? I mean, we could put a cooler in it. I haven't bought a golf cart. It's just a thought of being able to putz over there. Oh, you're thinking about buying a golf cart. I am because I love the idea of throwing my kids in there. Have you asked your neighbor to take his for a test drive? I have. And you've been like, hey, neighbor, you have? I have. And what's great is my wife. They let you do it? Yeah. He's like, you've driven a golf cart before. Here, hand me the keys. My son, my two-year-old son sat next to me. Joel crashes. and my wife pants he let him drive the golf my wife yeah i went faster in these pants i'll tell you my wife and uh my daughter sat in the back and my wife the whole time i'm driving it's like yeah autumn your dad doesn't realize how bumpy it feels back here yeah autumn your dad doesn't realize when he turns that sharply that we almost fly off you know like making you know she was just going like straight up passive aggressive oh yeah she wasn't talking to me She was talking to Autumn. And then Autumn's going, yeah, Daddy. She was just hitting all bumps. Even on the road. That's fair. So she's going, Daddy, slower. While Calvin, my two-year-old, is going faster, faster the whole time. So what did you end up doing? This is where we find out which kid is your favorite right now. I drove the same speed. I rode the fence. Isn't that your thing? I didn't change. I felt like I was driving a safe, comfortable speed. There's like 2,000 people listening to this right now being like, yep, that sounds like Joel. Yeah, safe. Just safe and true. Bam. Right down. I had a great time. My same speed. I ignored both of my kids equally. Faster. Hey, they all had a good time. Everybody but I think my wife had a great time. But even still, she's like, I can see the light. Everybody except for my wife. Yeah, perfect. Well done. That was good. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. I'm glad you're back to listen to this and referee this. I'm glad I'm here. you know, it's all for the smiles. Um, well, Tom, I could actually use your help on this because one of the other, um, one of the other questions was we, believe it or not, do a lot of talk tournament talk on this podcast. And I think we do forget that we get new listeners. We get people that are new to the hobby and they're, there's essentially slang that we use that some people don't understand. So we're just kind of rapid fire. We're going to blow through some of this, But we'll just start off at the beginning. A Whopper. We talk about people being Whopper hungry, all about the Whoppers. We're not talking about a Burger King sandwich.
    96:15
    They're delicious. Tom, I know you love the Whoppers. You have a lot of them. That's why you're ranked pretty high in the world. Yeah, but Travis is ranked higher than I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking to Travis. So, Tom, so Whoppers, can you please explain what Whoppers are? It's an abbreviation for World Pinball Player Rankings. So they're basically points you get by attending tournaments.
    96:43
    So if you win a tournament, you get more points, and then it's like a sliding scale down to the last person. The last person gets nothing.
    96:54
    And so speaking of which, Travis, so the walk – That's a great segue. So people are Whopper hungry, and he's flipping off the camera. I'm glad your camera was on so that works. Good for you.
    97:10
    But, like, winning a – so Travis, when he's dominating these tournaments in Oklahoma, they weren't worth much, right? Like, tournaments are worth more. You get more Whoppers based on the people you're playing, right? Right, based on the strength of the players, yeah. So there's a ranking, there's a rating, and I think there's one other metric that goes into it. Basically, it puts a value on each player that's within a tournament. That's how it happens. And so that value adds up to whatever first place is going to equal, and then it just, like Tom said, it just scales down from there. And the whole tournament value is based off your TGP, your total games played, which is further. just if you want to get really nerdy, that's basically just a bunch of mathematics based off the amount of players you have and the format you play and that equals out to a percentage of your TGP and your overall value of said tournament. And if that is all confusing, just go to ifpapinball.com, go to the resources drop down and then I think it's like the third to the bottom where it says TGP guide. You can look on there. So you don't or just ask Greg Paparelli. Yep. Greg can explain it very well. But you guys, technically, you don't know what, technically, you won't know the exact number of Whoppers you would potentially win at a tournament before you enter it. The tournament has to... Sort of.
    98:39
    A little bit. Well, if you know who's playing, right? That's the key, right? It really depends on who played in it, and then what format and all that. So a lot of that's important. But then somebody else does the math, right? I mean, somebody else is doing the math and then sticking it on the website. Like, that's not like Travis is calculating. No, it's all metrics done. Travis was calculating it would be number one. Yeah, I'd be world champion.
    99:11
    So there you go. So there's the Whopper. Two-time defending world champion. And then I think there were a few other ones. just so, you know, we're talking buzzwords or something. So pump and dump. So real quick, there are different tournament formats out there, out there. So Travis pump and dump. You want to explain that in a short bite size way? Sure. That's just a herb tournament, which just means that you, you just said a buzzword.
    99:38
    It's a best game tournament. Because it's named after somebody. I'm assuming herb. Yep. There you go. You're a bright one. Okay. So moving forward, best game tournament, right? So you have X amount of pins in front of you. It could be like 5, 10, 15, whatever. And however many games the tournament director decides is going to go towards your qualifying, you're basically either allowed to, if you hear unlimited herb, it means you can play each game as many times as you desire up until the qualifying is done. So whatever time frame there is. Whereas if it's limited, you can only play each game, whatever the limit is. So if you have, say, 20 plays or eight qualifications, obviously you need to still qualify on eight pins, but you only got 20 plays total to do it.
    100:27
    If you have a big wallet, you can continue to play. Yeah, so pump and dump wouldn't necessarily be limited. It would just be like full on, like just keep on rocking it out. And, yeah, you definitely hear from a lot of people that say, well, you know, only the players that buy in the most will qualify this and that. But that's not necessarily true. That might be good for, like, one or two. But typically the players that you see there, I mean, they're very good. And I personally like pump and dumps from the perspective that you can basically lay out your own way to make finals to where you can go anytime that you want, you can take a break when you need it. And then on top of that, it actually, to me, makes finals more exciting because most everybody in the finals knows how the games are playing. They're aware of the bounces. They're aware of where the tilt is. So you just see a lot more competitive games in that nature to where the scores tend to trend up a little bit more, which is why I really enjoy the Herb style. Yep. Okay.
    101:31
    Or pump and dump. Pump and dump. All right. And then another one was pin golf. So, like, yeah, explain pin golf. Tom, you can do that. Why do I have to do everything? Because you're a smart man. Tom hates pin golf, Joel. I actually like pin golf. I know. You love pin golf. This is all you, Tom. I can't get Eric to do it.
    101:52
    Thorne, you've got to do pin golf. Would people like a pin golf at D82? I think they would because we've done it twice. I wonder if they'd like a pump and dump at D82. I think they would really like a pump and dump. What if we did a pin golf pump and dump? Has that ever been done before? I don't think it has. I will tell you, though, as a viewer on stream, I like pin golf. Okay. So let me explain what pin golf is. I like it. I like pin golf. I like seeing it and watching it. Joel likes pin golf and turtles. So for pin golf, there's usually an objective, which is score. and you have to basically get that score in a number of balls. And you want to try to do that in one ball so you get a hole in one. So let's say you're playing, I don't know, let's say you're playing Rush and the score to get is 250 million. You have to do that in ball one.
    102:51
    And if you don't do it in ball one, you just keep playing. and then usually in tournaments if it's such a three ball you're a fourth ball if you didn't reach the objective you get a four or there's like a range of scores so you know it'll be like 250 to 200 million is is uh you get a four and then another five 50 million down you get a five and so on. And Travis's camera just went out. It just went out. So good. I went into the hazard.
    103:29
    So the tournament that the IFPA runs, Pin Masters, which is usually with nationals, is pin golf. And that's a lot of fun. I like the tournament. I like it because it's, you can do pin golf though as well. It doesn't have to be score based, right? No, you can do objectives. That's what makes it a lot of fun is you can do both objectives and score, so it might force you to play a game much differently than you would in a pump and dump or in a match play situation. And we've done that on stream with the Pinskins. Yeah. Which is a lot of fun. It is, in my opinion, it's the best. It's like one of my favorite streams to watch because it's very clear. Like there's no guesswork of what the person is trying to do. It's like, oh, what are you? What? Go ahead, Travis. I just had the best idea ever, and I got to say this out loud before I lose this. Tom, I just had this idea of Pinskins with Joel, Drew, Josh, and who else is a podcaster that plays pinball, but not necessarily competitive all the time? I think every podcaster. I would hope that.
    104:47
    Zach Minney. Okay. That forced them right there trying to play in pin skins with the hardest pins possible. Oh, goody. I want to announce that. I'm just putting it out there right now. All right. We can make that happen. But that, I would probably play in that. Because to be honest, like, that to me is, I like that idea, this objective-based thing where it's just like, okay, I understand instead of trying to, like, do something crazy or blow up. Like Rush, to get $250 million, there's a lot you have to do to get to $250 million in Rush. But if you give me an objection. Have you done that before? I have. Thank you. Okay, good. I'm just making sure. But it's not like that's not every game. And remember, I'm on easy mode over here with my outlays tight. So I don't know.
    105:37
    I like that idea. I like that format where it's like, okay. Or you can do pin golf and you can do like head-to-head. Like I know Carl with IE Pinball will stream that. Like they get two of the exact same machine. That is really fun to watch. They do very simple objectives, you know, first to this multiple, ready, go. And it could be 15 seconds, and it's fast. And then obviously Stern or never mind. Carl does it with, what's it called? Pin Clash. Same thing, like head-to-head. Hair dryer. See, I wish some of these companies would incorporate that into their pins. So, like, you know how Dwight does, like, the impossible mode and, you know, different things? That would be really cool. Here's a list of objectives, and you need to do it, and it's like a speed run. Well, I mean, even in Turtles with Insider Connected, there are, like, the modes within Turtles, there's one achievement to start the mode, there's one achievement to complete the mode, but then he has a third achievement of completing it in a set amount of time. Okay. So now you still have to, like, play the game. So you'd still have to set up the mode and play it. But, I mean, it would be cool if you could somehow just start the game and warp straight to that mode if you really wanted to do a time trial kind of thing. I don't know. I mean, with Insider Connected, the possibilities are endless, right? Yeah. I fully believe at some point that will be implemented on certain pinball machines. I mean, that just seems like a low-hanging fruit. Because I'm waiting.
    107:06
    Yeah. That just seems like the most obvious thing to put on there. If you're going to have head-to-head events or you're going to have leaderboards or something like that, time-based stuff. You're going to have objectives. But is it obvious to them? That's my question.
    107:19
    I think it's obvious. As much as they put into just the overall software and everything, I would have to think that that would be something that they would implement. Yeah. I would be shocked if they didn't.
    107:33
    We've talked about Insider Connected a lot, and we all agree. There's endless potential there, and there's a lot of stuff. I'm just waiting. Yeah, let's go. Thomas is on his throne just twiddling his thumbs. He's like, I'm ready.
    107:51
    Well, I don't know. Is there any other terms that you feel like you guys, as tournament players, you throw out that we should probably clarify real quick? That would be a Stephen Bowden question. He's the king of the pinball dictionary. I mean, when we have him on here, we can go over. Go on Fun with Bonus and check out his pen dictionary. Yeah. Well, there's tons of terms on there. I would say we're approaching the two-hour mark. There were some really good questions, so we kind of summarized a bunch of them. So if we didn't get to your question, let us know. I think we'll probably get used to doing that. That was really nice getting questions. But you can always e-mail us at tripledrain at gmail.com if there's anything specific you want us to discuss. And Travis will ignore them. Yeah, well, Travis doesn't know how to read, so we don't give him access to e-mails. yeah but I don't know we can probably was there anything else you guys I had a seven point and I wrote the pinball show and all I wanted to say is Zach and Dennis there the next episode is episode 100 which was technically supposed to be today we're recording this on Monday the 9th yeah we're getting there but it was supposed to be today but he said it's going to be two weeks so I think he's going big I think he's going big and he mentioned some format changes we have no idea what those are. But in the meantime, there was a new podcast. Dr. John has started the, I think it's the Aussie Pinball Podcast, where he's kind of filling us in about the world of pinball in Australia, which is pretty neat. So obviously we're trying to put this out for you guys. So we'll see what's going to happen on the pinball, in the pinball podcasting realm over the next two weeks. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe if a reveal happens sooner than later, maybe we'll record another one and talk about our reactions to it. But, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for the pinball show. I hope everybody's looking forward to that, episode 100, which should be a good time.
    109:39
    But, yeah, was there anything else that either of you guys want to talk about? We can go back to making fun of Travis's hoodie.
    109:47
    It's a wearable blanket, Joel. What was it marketed at? Where did you buy it, Amazon? Or what's its name? Is it a Snuggie? You know what? I'm not going to tell you guys because I know deep down you guys want to buy one now. I'm good. Regular blankets, fine. Travis, you buy me one and I'll buy your Triple Drain merch. How about that? You buy me one of those things. There you go. Seems like a fair trade. I'll buy you some Triple Drain merch. No, Travis, just buy yourself a new one and give me your used one. I don't want that part-filled quilt or whatever it is. I don't want it. So what it's actually called, if you really want to know, It's called the Comfy. It was on Shark Tank. The Comfy. Yeah, it's literally called the Comfy. It's an oversized microfiber wearable blanket. What size did you order, like 8XL?
    110:43
    Comfy is $49.99 on Amazon. Travis was like swimming in this thing. It's ridiculous. There's the original and the quarter zip. He won original. I'm not seeing that quarter zip. I did. You're not venting anything on that thing. You want it as. No, I told you. You pull it up to your armpits and you just let it loose. This is a one-size-fits-all, man. There is no sizing on this. And they sell them used for $36. And now that I've heard about Travis's experience, do not buy it used. Do not. Do not buy it used. Look at the pictures on there. I can't believe it. They are so happy. There's two bros just sitting on a couch just eating pizza, you know, just on your stream the other day? You were talking about people that drink Mountain Dew and just play Xbox and all that? All right. If you don't leave the house, this is great. Yeah. If anybody owns a comfy, feel free to take a picture of it and post it on our Facebook, and we will make fun of you. No. Travis needs – maybe that's what – Travis would love the support. I bet you Glenn has a comfy. No, no, no. I need zero validation for my choices. If somebody owns a comfy and they post a picture of them on our Facebook, Travis, you have to take a picture of yourself and post it.
    112:03
    Hell, I'll take a picture of myself anyway without that. I don't get embarrassed. It's fine. I'm good. I might just order another one right now since I'm on the Amazon page. I'd say to cover your lower half, but you pretty much cover 75% of you. It's absurd. He's naked underneath it. Yeah, I'm proud. I got nothing to hide. We're good. His cheeks are spread right now on that.
    112:27
    Serpa fur or whatever on the inside of that thing. All right. Well, let's go ahead and plug, you know. Yep. Let's plug it up. Plug it up there. I got to plug my stream, Fox Cities Pinball, on Twitch and YouTube. On Twitch this weekend, May 14th at 9 a.m., I'm going to be streaming the Ladies Flip Wisconsin at District 82 Pinball. So it's just the ladies this time. So 34 women, cash prizes. We're going to be streaming that. So check it out.
    113:02
    Cool. Yeah. And, yeah, Travis, feel free to plug our podcast. Feel free. Well, I would like to encourage everybody to go to Amazon.com and buy a company. You get no affiliate money from that. You guys can also listen to us on the TPN network at Triple Drain Podcast. And then you guys can catch me this weekend. I'm going to Delaware to play in their tournament out there. And I think their Twitch handle is Delaware Pinball Collective. And I think they're streaming. I'm not quite sure. I don't know the situation on that. I'm pretty sure they're streaming it. I think they might be doing that, but there's no commentators or anything like that. So I don't know. You can jump on. Yeah, if you just want to watch. When you get knocked out, just jump on. Oh, my gosh. I have my glasses now. I think I should be fine. I'll finish above 50 a couple of times. Are you packing your comfy? Are you taking your comfy with you? I'll wear it on the plane.
    114:06
    You're going to have to get an extra. Travis is going to be like, this is a mask. Yeah, you're going to have to get the seatbelt extension just to fit that seat with that thing on. Mommy, what is that man wearing? Oh, man.
    114:20
    Oh, okay. Yep. And, yeah, my name's Joel. I do the Pimple Network stream on Wednesdays, so feel free to check that out, Wednesday nights at 10 Eastern Standard Time. And then every other Thursday I stream for Flippin' Out on the Flippin' Out stream, so check that out.
    114:40
    But, yeah, and then obviously Triple Drain. So if there's anything, if you guys are listening to this, if there's anything, once again, if you agree, disagree, what we're talking about, buy a comfy, feel free to email us at tripledrain at gmail.com or anything else we can talk about. But, yeah, appreciate the listens. Appreciate the laughter, guys. Thanks for, I don't know, thanks for being ridiculous, Travis. And, Tom, thanks for being back, man. It's great to have you on here. Thanks. We didn't even do a Tom Talks. Tom was talking the whole episode. He was. He was, man. You were fired up, Tom. It was a little lemonade. It was the lemonade. Get that sugar in there, yeah. What was it? It was Crystal Light. That's right, Crystal Light. It was when you were drinking the Pepsis last time you were on. Oh, yeah. Boy, you were wired. All right.
    115:26
    Okay. Well, once again, thanks, Travis, for being here. And, Tom, you get the last words. Good night, everybody.