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Episode 12 DeepRoot and Sparkly Whirlwinds!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Jun 5, 2019
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TL;DR

Deep Root delays but promises Houston Expo prototypes; two pristine Whirlwind restores showcase different philosophies.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Episode 12 covers Deep Root Pinball's latest announcement about missed deadlines and upcoming Raza prototypes at the Houston Expo, plus a detailed comparison of two meticulously restored Whirlwind machines by Bill Webb and Zach Manning. The hosts discuss Deep Root's confrontational exchange with community members on Pinside forums and explore restoration approaches ranging from originality to modern upgrades.

Key Claims

  • Deep Root announced Raza prototypes will be available to play at Houston Expo on November 15-16

    high confidence · Hosts discussing Deep Root's announcement letter on their website

  • Deep Root extended Zidware refund deadline to June 28

    high confidence · Hosts reviewing Deep Root's public announcement

  • Whirlwind was released in 1990 by Pat Lawlor with 7,304 units produced at an average price of $2,800

    high confidence · Drew referencing specifications during Whirlwind discussion

  • Bill Webb built his Whirlwind cabinet from scratch and obtained a brand new reproduction topper

    high confidence · Hosts discussing Bill Webb's restoration work from Special Winlit Podcast

  • Zach Manning had Schmitty work on his Whirlwind and created flush pin stadium lighting that recesses into the cabinet

    high confidence · Hosts reviewing Zach's upgrade list and discussing the innovation

  • Robert Mueller (Deep Root owner) engaged in a heated exchange with community member LTG on Pinside forums

    high confidence · Hosts reading and discussing Mueller's response about reliability issues with competing machines

  • Zach Manning wants to own five premier pinball machines that will be bolted to the floor permanently, including Whirlwind and Shadow

    medium confidence · Hosts discussing Zach Manning's past show comments about his collection plans

  • Radcals (vinyl cabinet decals) cost approximately $400

    medium confidence · Hosts estimating cost based on discussion of Zach's Whirlwind upgrades

  • Deep Root criticized podcasts and forums for providing inaccurate information in their announcement

    high confidence · Hosts referencing Deep Root's letter dismissing 'pinball media' coverage

Notable Quotes

  • “The pinball media. Laughable. You guys don't know what you're talking about.”

    Deep Root (referenced from announcement) @ ~0:15:00 — Deep Root's dismissive stance toward industry media and commentary, setting up tension with podcast culture

  • “You mean like Ghostbusters that won't turn on half the time? The two brand new premium Batman 66s I bought that are already more dimpled than the moon and with broken mechs already.”

    Robert Mueller (Deep Root) @ ~0:18:00 — Mueller's pointed critique of competing manufacturers' quality, perceived as arrogant given Deep Root's track record

  • “All pinball breaks, man. That's pinball, baby.”

    Drew (host) @ ~0:20:30 — Pushback against Mueller's criticism, emphasizing that reliability issues are universal in the industry

  • “If they make these great games and they're awesome, then everyone will say, oh, he did it. He's a genius. But then if he brings out his first game and it has problems... they're going to say, oh, I thought you guys had these great games.”

    Ian (host) @ ~0:22:00 — Warning about the perception risk Mueller is running by criticizing competitors pre-launch

  • “He built a cabinet from scratch... Kudos to you, Bill. That's pretty fucking sweet.”

    Ian (host) @ ~0:32:00 — Recognition of Bill Webb's extensive restoration craftsmanship

  • “He threw the wiring harness in the dishwasher, cleaned it up like brand new. Fucking badass.”

    Ian (host) @ ~0:36:00 — Highlighting an unconventional but effective restoration technique used by Bill Webb

  • “Never wanted a Whirlwind until I saw that. Isn't that funny?”

    Drew (host) @ ~0:50:00 — Demonstrates how quality restoration can change perception of a game's desirability

  • “I'm going to make them. Poor man's stadium lights. Very pitting.”

    Ian (host) — Introduction of DIY stadium lighting concept using aluminum angle brackets and Amazon LEDs

Entities

Deep Root PinballcompanyRobert MuellerpersonBill WebbpersonZach ManningpersonLTGpersonPat LawlorpersonSchmittypersonHouston ExpoeventSpecial Winlit Podcastorganization

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Deep Root announced Raza prototypes will be playable at Houston Expo on November 15-16, with extended Zidware refund deadline of June 28

    high · Hosts referencing Deep Root's website announcement letter detailing specific dates and commitments

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts acknowledge Deep Root's history of missed deadlines while expressing cautious optimism about seeing concrete deliverables at Houston Expo

    high · Ian: 'I want to see them deliver on half of what they promised'; Drew: 'I'm excited about them. I can't wait to see what actually comes true'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Robert Mueller engaged in heated public critique of competing manufacturers (Stern, Jersey Jack, Chicago Gaming) regarding machine reliability issues

    high · Mueller's specific callout of Ghostbusters, Batman 66 Premium, Hobbit, and TNA reliability problems on Pinside forums

  • ?

    community_signal: Deep Root explicitly criticized 'pinball media' and podcasts/forums as having 'laughable' information in their announcement

    high · Hosts noting Deep Root's statement dismissing podcast and forum commentary as uninformed

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Two different restoration philosophies emerging: Bill Webb prioritizing originality with modern finishes; Zach Manning pursuing luxury upgrades and innovative engineering

    high · Detailed comparison of both Whirlwind machines showing divergent approaches to powder coating, LED displays, and custom playfield work

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.129

0:00
What are you drinking today? It's the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast with Drew and Ian. Welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, episode number 12. the only pinball podcast not pumping the brakes but punching the accelerator. I am Drew, and with me always is Ian. Punch it. Punching the accelerator. Punch it, baby. We're back. Episode 12, guys. We are back. Where are we back from? Episode 11.
0:43
Episode 11, where Drew wasn't here, and it was really short because Drew talks too much. Ten seconds, baby. That's all I need.
0:53
Ladies and gentlemen. We're back. We are back. Ian, myself, and our two wives and another couple spent a beautiful week in St. Kitts in the Caribbean, and it was amazing. We drank. We ate seafood. We saw some sun. I am still soaking up the rum from that vacation. I've been sweating rum for the last two days. We've been back for two days, folks. It's jet lag city over here still. It is. So what are you drinking today, Ian? Red Bull. No, I'm just joking. I'm joking. We have a donation today, Drew. We have a donation. How exciting is this? We got some beer brought in. Is a donation the same as a sponsor? No, not a sponsor, just a donation.
1:37
We're still shills, though. Trust me. But this is brought to us by Charlie Laberski. Charlie, thank you, sir. This is called Dark Lord.
1:50
Sword of Rage. It's brewed and bottled by Three Floyds Brewing out of Munster, Indiana. And, Drew, I poured you a little bit. I got a little bit right here. We're going to try it right here on the air. What do you think? Let's drink it. Cheers, brother. Cheers. Cheers, man. Did you hear that tink? Here it goes.

Bill Webb used powder coating on metal parts underneath the playfield and on the backbox

high confidence · Hosts describing Bill Webb's Whirlwind restoration details

@ ~1:05:00

  • “Games like Tron, you know, is good for mirrors. But then a game like The Simpsons, you put mirrors in there and you're like, well, this isn't The Simpsons.”

    Ian (host) @ ~1:02:00 — Discussion of game-specific aesthetic choices for custom modifications

  • “I think we need like an ironic sound effect whenever we say pinball media.”

    Ian (host) @ ~0:14:00 — Humorous acknowledgment of how the term 'pinball media' has become a joke in the industry discourse

    • Poor Man's Pinball Podcast
    organization
    Straight Down the Middleorganization
    Classic Playfield Reproduction Companycompany
    Rotten Dogcompany
    Titan Pinballcompany
    Radcalscompany
    PinStadiumscompany
    Scottperson
    Drewperson
    Ianperson
    Charlie Laberskiperson
    Pinsideorganization
    Whirlwindgame
    ?

    design_innovation: Zach Manning's Whirlwind features first-ever flush pin stadium lighting that recesses into cabinet, allowing playfield removal without disturbing lights

    medium · Hosts discussing the engineering of routing grooves to accommodate recessed pin stadiums

  • ?

    product_concern: Mueller's pre-launch criticism of competitor reliability creates risk—if Deep Root's machines have issues, his comments will be used against him

    high · Ian's explicit warning: 'The second your shit goes down, people are going to paste this... and say we make machines that break all the time'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Restored machines with pristine conditions are dramatically increasing desirability of games (Drew: 'Never wanted a Whirlwind until I saw that')

    high · Hosts noting that beat-to-shit location machines contrast sharply with these immaculate examples, shifting perception of the game's appeal

  • ?

    operational_signal: Growing market for custom pinball components: mirrored backglasses, custom playfield reproductions, LED displays, vinyl decals, pin stadiums; Radcals averaging $400 per set

    high · Detailed listing of Zach's upgrades including CPR mirrors, Rotten Dog LEDs, Titan Pinball silicone, and Radcals with approximate pricing

  • ?

    technology_signal: Ian attempting to create 'poor man's stadium lights' using aluminum angle brackets from hardware store and Amazon LEDs as budget alternative to premium PinStadiums

    medium · Ian describing plan to paint aluminum brackets black and add magnetic LED strips to light Simpsons machine

  • ?

    venue_signal: Location-based Whirlwinds consistently in poor condition ('beat to shit', missing bulbs, dirty); topper fans notably always operational despite other issues

    high · Hosts noting their experience with Whirlwind machines on location and the humor of fans always working despite deterioration

  • ?

    event_signal: Houston Expo (November 15-16) positioned as critical test of Deep Root's credibility; hosts uncertain if event will be streamed

    medium · Hosts discussing whether prototypes will be available for viewing and speculating about streaming coverage

    • 2:09
    Looks like tar. Tastes pretty damn good, actually. That is good. It's a thick beer. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, we got to put this in the blender for a bit. on the racks a little bit of ice yeah this is shit where i'm gonna start drooling just because it's so strong uh charlie thank you sir man we are some good stuff we're gonna drink this shit tonight well now i'm now i'm mixing this with my not whiskey i haven't had whiskey in over a week because in the caribbean it was just rum and rum and rum mixed in with a couple pina coladas but mostly just rum rums in pina coladas brother so it was rum and uh yeah hey shout out to belmont spiced rum yes so i brought some back and that's what i'm drinking right now it's more belmont dark spiced coconut rum and cokes are what drew and i have been slamming lots of belmont no water just rum so cheers all right well thank you again charlie dark lord three floyds i give it two thumbs up but good beer thanks thanks charlie so uh today we have uh just a couple of topics um we're going to try to keep this shorter as we've promised in the past and haven't delivered it's official but it's official sure i will i will cut us off we'll just we have to be done and we'll just stop talking. The podcast ends at 45 minutes regardless. So we're going to keep it shorter. We're kind of testing some new formats. We're testing out some new stuff, as Ian alluded to in our last episode. And we're at 45. Oh, done. Oh, wait, no, that was four. We're good. Keep going, keep going. So everyone, I'm sure, has heard by now, but if you haven't, Deep Root put out a big announcement.
    3:58
    It's the only thing kind of being announced this week, so that's why it's the big announcement. But where did that originate from anyways? Their website. It's just their website. It's just an open letter. Yeah, all those websites have blogs or whatever. Hey, we got something to say. We haven't said anything in a year, so might as well say something here. Sure. So we're not going to bore you by reading the whole thing. If you want, just type in Deep Root Pinball, and you'll pretty much get right to it. Yeah, I'm sure everyone that's listening to us has actually read that. They understand. They understand what's going on. Of course they do. Robert's doing some shit. Yeah, Robert's doing some shit, man. Believe it or not, they're making pinball machines. Pinball magic. Yeah, the Cliff Notes version is, hey, we didn't hit our deadlines, but we're still not asking for money. We have these deadlines now, and they kind of laid out some dates to help make the Zidware people whole, which now has extended to June 28th. And they said, hey, podcasts and forum people, their information is laughable man laughable the pinball media laughable you guys don't know what you're talking about they're pointing us out guys that's it we don't know shit I think we need like an ironic sound effect whenever we say pinball media the pinball media laughable man it's kind of funny that word's only come about in the last seems like month or two that someone's coined that term now and all of a sudden everyone's part of the pinball media. Yep, yep. I don't have a badge yet, so I guess I'm not part of it. No, we try to go backstage, and they're like, get the F out. You guys are gone. Right, right. Kaneda doesn't answer my emails anymore.
    5:40
    Does anybody? They're all regarding his socks, though, so. Whatevs, man, whatevs. I can't win. So anyways, you know, they're trying to make the Zidware people whole. They're moving to June 28th. and then uh i think the biggest thing in here they said at a minimum several of the raza prototypes will be available to play at uh the houston expo i thought that's kind of neat i mean that that's like saying you know they said hey this is happening yeah like this is one thing that isn't ridiculous that's going to happen you know as opposed to making broad statements like oh we're gonna you know put out five games a year we're gonna do this you know that's pretty vague but this is pretty specific saying we will have prototypes at there so i think that's cool bring some pinball by the way bring some pinball over at the eastern pinball festival do you think they're going to stream that as well i would think they'd almost have to right someone's gonna have a cell phone it will be available to see sure i'm sure of it but i'm sure they're gonna probably set sign up ahead of time have a maybe a stream scheduled for for that expo yeah i'm not sure I'm not sure. I hope so. I hope we get to see at least what these cabinets are going to be all about.
    6:53
    You know, you got to think that Papa Duke's got a pretty good idea about the actual plan of attack on how the flow of the game is going to be and what's in it. But what I'm more interested to see is not so much the flow, but what kind of mechs we're going to see from the Deep Root team. Is it really going to be about bringing it back to the Bailey William glory years? Or are we going to see something new and innovative? Like, you know, we keep hearing innovative.
    7:18
    We've heard that word so many times. My scoop is connected to the internet now. We're all together. I can turn my scoop on from work? Drew, you're fucking with my scoop. I shouldn't be giving you my password. There's just like a little flap, open, close, open, close. Just push it on your phone and it closes. Yeah, exactly. You bastards. No, but the internet's in scoops and all that good stuff. Come on, Deep Root. Where are you? And we can assume that obviously this is going to be an internet-connected machine. I mean, there is no way in the world that they're going to release a machine after all the hype with no internet, right? Oh, they'd have to, right? Could you imagine? They have all these great things. They're like, hey, is it hooked up to the Wi-Fi? No.
    8:05
    Technology. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That would just be the biggest shit of all time. Exactly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can go on the internet, but it's dial-up. Oh, come on, man. What are you doing, Robert? Plug your phone cord in here. Oh, man. Yeah, each pinball machine comes with an American Online CD for 25 hours, guys. For those listening under 25, American Online.
    8:29
    Yeah, you know, whatever. But, yeah, I'm interested to see. Are we going to see the same old mix, or are we going to see something new, something innovative? I'd like to know. I would like to see both. Oh, yeah, there's going to be a mix. They can't get rid of all the old. The olds, some of the olds are really fun. Spinners are still great. How old are spinners? They're ancient. They started. Spinners are one of the first innovations in pinball, I guess, if you think about it. What a weird concept a spinner is, if you think about it. I just want a flat to go around and around and around. Yep, spin it real fast. It's awesome. I love it. It's awesome.
    9:03
    So, yeah, that's November 15th and 16th. We will not be at the Houston Expo. I'm jealous of you guys. We keep asking. They don't want us. No. I just mean we can't afford it because we just spent a week in St. Kitts yeah now truly poor man our traveling has now been diminished to once every four years after that trip oh boy everyone's like we gotta change our name because we want somewhere fancy no we don't yeah Discover has to pay for it yes yeah somebody's paying for it it's not me it's called minimum payments guys cash in the bank who has cash in the bank is for suckers but anyway yeah so that's what i'm thinking deep root gonna come out and i just want to see what they got to bring obviously and robert muller is on pin side did you see that i did he uh forums he's answering questions that that happened like pretty shortly after you know people start firing off their keyboards and robert fires off just as well as the best trolls why don't you just read the listeners if you guys haven't been on there there was a little bit of exchange between him and Mr. LTG on Pinside. Go ahead. LTG starts this off. He just says, after Robert Spiel on his page about how all modern pinball right now is crap, LTG kind of sarcastically and kind of a smart-ass comment goes, thank God we have all this outdated, uninspired crap to play until your game comes out. Burn. LTG, one point. And then Robert responds with just a haymaker of an epic burn back He says you mean like Ghostbusters that won turn on half the time The two brand new premium Batman 66s I bought that are already more dimpled than the moon and with broken mechs already. A Hobbit that's been dead for months, dialed in with constant sound and rebooting problems, and a TNA with so many problems that it has kept my engineers from engineering on Deep Root stuff, playing and maintaining a Deep Root game is pretty refreshing for me thus far. Ooh! Burns! No, that is. I think he got every single manufacturer. No, that was calculated and well thought out. That was a triple burn. I just got to say this to Robert. All pinball breaks, man. That's pinball, baby. No, you should not say that, Robert, because the second your shit goes down, And people are going to be like, well, I thought yours was supposed to be good. They're going to paste this, and they're just going to put it up on your site. They're going to hack your site and put it up on there. And it's just going to say, we make these machines that break all the time. Oh, my God. Yeah. And I think that's the risk that Robert's running into now. Because if they make these great games and they're awesome, then everyone will say, oh, he did it. He's a genius. He's awesome. They never break. It's amazing. Yeah, it's a goddamn miracle. Sure. Thank you, Robert. But then if he brings out his first game, even if it's a good game and people want to buy it, and then they have like Pirates of the Caribbean Gate, call it that, with all the problems they have with connectors and different things. Chip and play fields. Yeah, whatever the case is, after their first game, they're going to say, oh, I thought you guys had these great games and manufacturing down and stuff. I mean, they're going to have problems. They're a new company. Absolutely, they're going to have problems. They're making these machines with thousands of parts, and I have no doubt a couple of those titles are probably going to be something I'd want to buy. But we don't know the reliability of them. We don't know how well they're going to do. Well, he knows already. Oh, he's got it. He's got them all already in his basement, apparently. Yeah, he's been distributing them to his many houses. To go next to his many Batman 66 premiums. He's been distributing for months, guys. And you know what? Not one of them is broken in his own house. They're the best pinball that will ever pinball in the history of pinball. The end. Is this Trump pinball? This is Trump. The best pinball ever of all time. He loves to grab you by the scoop and just keep going, keep it classy. It's beautiful pinball. Beautiful, people. Never breaks down. Beautiful, big pinball, baby.
    13:17
    That was our horrible, horrible Trump impressions, people. Love it. Best pinball ever. It doesn't break down ever. and it's the greatest and it's the brightest and has the best animators and engineers ever.
    13:30
    All right, well, thank you, Robert, for that. That was entertaining. LTG, way to go. Stick to your guns, brother. I loved it. I loved it all. But, yeah, Robert, brutal, brutal. All right, so that was Deep Root, man. What do you think? I told you. Closing arguments? I want to see them deliver on half of what they promised, and I'll be okay. As in, a couple of games.
    13:52
    You know, I guess twice as long as when they said, because they were supposed to be out this year. If they can get something out in, say, the spring of next year or even late this year, I want some good pinball, man. That's what I'm looking for, always. All right, man. Well, that's all right. Sounds good, man. My closing argument is it just – I don't care. I'm excited about them. I can't wait. I want to see what actually comes true, but I'm super pumped. All right, here we go. Let's go on to the topic. number two, number two, number two, number two. All right, so we got, oh, what do we got? We got something fun for you guys and might get me in a little bit of trouble, but you know what? That's what I do. We have the Whirlwind Showdown Downtown Brawl Town of the Ages.
    14:40
    You want me to say that again? Yes. The Whirlwind Showdown Downtown Brawl Town of the Ages. All right, so Whirlwind, beautiful game, right? I want you to say it one more time. whirlwind showdown downtown brawl town of the ages wow so that's impressive actually the uh
    15:01
    whirlwind famous game released what 92 by uh yeah early 90s the pat lawler special lawler special hold on let me just double check my notes here but i'm pretty sure that's when it was um that one yeah it's a classic everyone in the pinball world knows it everyone plays it everyone likes it for one reason or the other um it might not be everyone's favorite game but it's it's just good it's solid 90 1990 i was two years off they produced 7304 average price 2800 that's a really good price wow yeah estimated price well i suppose there's a lot of like players conditions out there and every whirlwind this is not related to this but every whirlwind i've ever played on location is the most beat to shit looks like it's gone through a whirlwind it's dirty yeah the topper works and it's just blowing that hot air isn't that funny like the topper always works yeah but uh yeah just the bulbs are out you know and yeah all of them need some love and that once again that's probably the 2800 price tag because everyone needs needs some work i know so you know they were played that's a good thing there are two guys from the midwest who did quite a Betta worked to some whirlwinds, aren't there? They did. Who are those two gentlemen? So we have the whirlwind showdown downtown Brawl Town of the Ages. It's one corner. We have straight down the middle, Zach Manning, our dear, dear friend, versus special winlet Bill Webb. Those are some heavy hitters there. You got Zach first, Bill? Love them both. Yeah, great guys.
    16:38
    Fantastic shows, right? Solid dudes. Solid shows. Solid dudes. So they both have a restored whirlwind. Who would win in a fight between Bill Webb and Zach Manning? I'm just kidding. We don't need to do that again.
    16:54
    And it would be Zach Manning and Bill Webb. It would be a tie because we'd all have beers, and it would be all good. This is what I find fascinating about this because it's not really a contest because both machines, can we agree, are the most amazing machines you've ever seen? I have looked at them both in pretty great detail, and, yes, they are both amazing. This is actually a really stupid segment because the answer is they're both winners because these are amazing machines. So I'm going to throw that out there. I want both of them, actually. But two different ways of restoring. So Bill Webb, let's just start with him. Now, I don't think he – I couldn't find it anyway. Sorry, Bill. I didn't see the specs he used, all the new stuff that he put in it. I know he talked every episode a little bit about what he's added to it. Yeah, to my understanding, Bill was more of, I want this machine to be, you know. A perfect example. Yeah, perfect example, original. You know, I'm going to add some, you know, I think he did some powder coating and some things that look nice, but it's more original. Well, he started by building the cabinet from scratch, which is awesome. Yes, very cool. Kudos to you, Bill. That's pretty fucking sweet.
    17:59
    He did powder coat. He likes powder coating the stuff underneath, too. a lot of the underneath of the play field some of the mechs and stuff and some of the oh metal parts underneath okay sure because you know like some of those souped up cars you know you go under the hood and they're like super super nice everything's chromed and everything yeah that's kind of where he was going with because he's he's had it done he's done this a few times i guess and uh uh it's just it's just a sweet look you know that's when you know the machine is taken good care of so kudos to that but uh some powder coating on the play field as well uh um he did the blue led display i saw i don't know if that's 100 for sure but i saw the picture of it he does have the the blue led display uh new plastics and i think he got somehow he found a place that redoes the toppers i think it's a brand new topper on his it's not like uh it's not a refurbished or it's not like a different style no it's the same one it looks identical just brand new but it looks It's fucking shiny and new. Yeah, it's really, really cool. So Bill Webb has just an amazing, immaculate thing. You can see pictures of it on his Facebook page, Special Wind Lit Podcast on Facebook. And they have pictures of this Whirlwind, and it is phenomenal. How much do you think a Whirlwind topper would cost nowadays, brand new, if you were buying a machine? Topper prices, I have no idea anymore. They're super expensive, right? I know. That's my point. I'm just starting at $700. That fan probably costs a couple of dollars. They mold the plastic or whatever. And, yes, Stern would probably charge you $6.99. Jersey Jack would probably charge you $9.99. But it's an interactive fan. It's an interactive feature, okay, buddy? And guess what Williams did back in the day? They included it with the machine. Holy fuck, are you kidding me? Sorry. That was probably my largest tangent for the day, but I just couldn't resist. Largest tangent for the day. Way to go, Drew.
    20:00
    But no, fucking great. So good job, Bill. Can we give a round of applause? I had to put my drink down for this one, Bill. It's amazing. No, it looks great. It is. It's gorgeous. And the thing with Bill, he talked about it every week. He spent six months on this thing. Yeah. I mean, you know, the amount of work that it takes, you know, just to do, like, some of the stuff he did. Like, you know, swap a play field, you know, takes however long. It would take me and you, like, a year to swap a play field. Nah. You know, and then. Give us too much credit. Two years. Thank you. You know, and then he builds a cabinet from scratch, once again. You know, how many hours, you know, weekends does that take? and then, you know, every, the powder coating and all this stuff. It's just. Labor of love, right? Yeah, just awesome. Yeah. It's truly awesome. Badass, yeah. And then learned some things, you know, like he took the wiring harness, threw it in the dishwasher, cleaned it up like brand new. Fucking cool. Badass. Yeah. Fucking badass. So, Bill, you're a badass. We love you.
    21:06
    Zach Many, he had his boy Schmitty work on his, and i actually do have a laundry list because zach put all the uh all the kind of upgrades on there i'm not going through every single one but some of the ones that stood out um pretty impressive so but i know zach from the past in his past shows he talked about um getting premier five lineup Like he wants these five pins that are never leaving to bolt into the floor Did he name those? Because I didn't hear this. He did. And I do not remember any of them except for Worldwin. I think Worldwin and Shadow was one of two. And then there was three other ones. These are just bolted. They're never leaving. And, yeah, and I don't think he had them yet. Not all of them. So he's still in the process. But he wants the best of, you know, he wants the best example of all five of these pins. And this is kind of step one, I think. Zach, if I'm wrong, send me an email, bud. But here we go. Zach Menes, Whirlwind. So he had a gold playfield repro by the Classic Playfield Reproduction Company. And gold, that's just their best standard playfield, right? Yeah, I think so. Because, like, if it has, like, small imperfections, it becomes a silver, I think, or something like that. I'm not sure, but it just sounds impressive. Yep, yep. Rolls off the tongue. He got a full chrome package on this. I didn't think I would be a big fan of chrome coin doors. I want a chrome coin door now. It's fucking sharp. It is. And those rails on there, just like... Everything. It just looks brand new. It's fucking so shiny. Shiny.
    22:38
    Radcals on the side. You want one with the radcals? Fucking cool. Radcals are a unique thing. For anyone who doesn't know what they are, They basically print them on this plastic vinyl sheet. Anyways, so these Radcals are really cool. Like, you know, I'm not big into, you know, the cabinet of my machine just because my machines are so close together. But very durable, very cool, and very expensive. They're like $400. Fuck. So, yeah, not cheap. Because what do you think? Like just the standard decals are usually like half that or like $200 or something. Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I'd assume, yeah, $250. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Depending on the game, but... Yep, yep. So anyways, good job, Radcals. Radcals! Yep. Here we go.
    23:25
    Oh, he also has a mirrored back glass by CPR, which I don't know what that stands for. The company? Yeah, by CPR. But mirrored are back glasses. Fucking, I love a mirrored back glass. They look sharp. he also has the blue led displays by rotten dog uh translucent and color silicone by titan pinball um new plastics i assume bills has new plastics as well uh this is interesting he first ever engineered flush pin stadium lighting so cool when i read that list love to see how that works and i learned what it was that they just they basically recess these things inside the cabinet so now you can lift your play field without removing your pin stadiums. How cool is that? God bless him. Yeah, very, very cool. God bless him. Zach, here we go.
    24:22
    So do you think Schmitty did that too, or do you think they sent that out to somebody to do that? I don't know. I don't know much about Schmitty. I just know he's a fucking crazy football guy. And he likes having super pristine machines. Yeah. I don't know if he sent out anything or if he was able to do the work himself. It almost sounds like that was something you could do with a handheld router or something. Yeah. Where you kind of route it out. You route it out once you have a shell. And then you just kind of make a groove for your pin stadiums. Stick them in there. And we're saying, oh, you just do this. And yeah, if you have an empty cabinet, it's probably not incredibly difficult. Why don't they do that? That's just a cool thing. Yeah, no. Pin stadiums know how to light up a machine. So I don't know why a lot of these new guys do that. Scott from Penn Stadium, if you're listening. We love you. We do love you. Work out how to get these manufacturers to do that, because that would be cool going forward if new manufacturers could have that all set up for you. So I highly recommend you guys going to Straight Down the Middle's Facebook page.
    25:26
    There's some pictures of it on there, too. Maybe we'll try to link it somehow, maybe on our Facebook page. We always talk about show notes and linking. Have we linked or show notes anything? Not on our show notes. I don't touch that. Nah, it's too much work. But you can like us on Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. I'll just share it again. I know I shared it before, but I'll send at least the links for both of those. But unbelievable. Unbelievable. Just looks beautiful. Never wanted a whirlwind until I saw that. Isn't that funny? It's not because it's a bad game. Just because of my experiences, like I said earlier, they're always beat to shit. Yeah, and it's very rare to see one, let alone two, that are absolutely perfect and gorgeous in every way. And now that's all I want to play is Whirlwind again. I saw one on Pinside yesterday where it was like the spinning disc, there was literally nothing left on them. They were just completely worn down to nothing. I've seen those on location like that. Oh, it looks awful. Absolutely. Because doesn't the, oh man, I hate when I do pinball knowledge on here, because if I'm wrong, I feel really bad. But isn't the right ramp goes into a wire form and drops it on one of those spinners? So you get that ball constantly dropping on that spinner. Yeah. I think that's how the right ramp works. But fuck, man, cool game, though. And well-played guys. They are beautiful. So round of applause. If I was going to pick a winner, you're both winners. We love you. Thank you. All right, so Drew, personal pinball news. Do you have any personal pinball? We've been gone on an island for a week. We have been. How could you have any personal pinball news? Because I'm always working on something pinball.
    27:08
    I'm the island on the land that we call the Midwest. Drew was on fucking pin map on the beach trying to see if there was any local pinball. I only checked once, folks. And then after that, I gave up, and I just sat with my rum on the beach.
    27:26
    Personal pinball news. Yeah, you guys know I got my new machines. you know hobbit simpsons um hobbit was still giving me a couple of issues we're uh you know we're almost there it's it's it works most of the time we just got a couple of sticking things so i'm not going to bore you guys with that but uh simpsons um ordered a couple of uh small mods um got the uh pin uh pinball decals on the way so i'm excited about that with the simpsons landscape oh nice oh yeah it makes it look like the side yeah it's like the side yeah side blades but they're they're you know the decals just the um looks like the simpsons town cool so it's very cool so is it black right now yeah okay yeah just black wood and it's it's scuffed up pretty good so it's a good choice yeah because you're a fan of the blade of the mirrors or the the actual art Because I had the mirrored blades on Black Rose, and now I have those on Monster Bounce. It really depends on the game. My first game, Last Action Hero, I did the mirrors. And, you know, it's just so hard sometimes, like I said, depending on the game. Metallica had the creeping death blades, which are really cool. So I think the games that have the, I guess I'm going to say clean lines, like Tron, you know, is good for mirrors. Okay. You know, games like that, futuristic games, you know, you guys know what I'm talking about out there.
    29:02
    But then a game like The Simpsons, you know, you put mirrors in there and you're like, well, you know, this isn't The Simpsons. so you get the but you get the you know it looks like the cityscape and you got most tavern and you got you know the simpsons house or whatever that that's cool so once again it's game specific for me it really is and then uh this beer is kicking my ass yeah and it's a it's a big bottle too fuck me all right uh thanks charlie so then the last thing i'm trying something new um scott I love you. I love Penn Stadiums. I think I've purchased three or four pairs from you now because I sold a couple with some of the games. But for the Simpsons, there's not as much of a light show. Okay? Okay. And that's okay because I love the game, but it is still a little dark. So I just need some light in there. So I don't need crazy light shows. I don't need the flashers because, you know, Simpsons just doesn't have a crazy light show going on. So what I'm going to attempt to do is make the poor man's pinball stadium lights. Pitting. Very pitting. Poor man's stadium lights. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what I did was I purchased a couple of aluminum angle brackets at Depot. You're going to paint them? I painted them black. Good. And then. That's the one thing I was worried about. Oh, I knew that. You know, it's funny because I did them today. Shitty ass silk. I did them today. And I was thinking that as I was painting them. I'm like, Ian would expect me not to paint these. Yeah, I definitely would not. Yeah, I'd expect that. So I painted them black, and I ordered some LEDs from Amazon. I'm waiting on a couple. And the magnetic strips. So I'm going to make them. You know, like I said, this one, I just want to light it up. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Scott, my pin stadiums are on The Hobbit, and they're beautiful, and I love it, and it's great with that game. But like I said, the Simpsons, I just want to light it up. How about a couple of spotlights instead? Wouldn't it have been cheaper? I spent like $20, $25. Yeah, but are you worried that it might be too bright?
    31:09
    I got the remote control. Oh, so it dims them? Mm-hmm. I know the remote control from an arcade machine. No, you could do all kinds of stuff with it.
    31:21
    Yeah, I think they're dimmable. Cool, man. I'm excited to see them. Yeah, we'll see how it works. I got faith in you. I didn't spend a ton of money.
    31:30
    They suck, they suck. Yeah. It was $20. Yeah. Well, and actually it was less than that because I really only paid for the brackets because my Amazon stuff was with my Amazon points. Gotcha. So, you know, it's a $20 experiment. We'll see what happens. Cool, man. Have you ever seen those in person? What's that? The poor man's light? No, I haven't. I have not either, so you will be my first. Well, there you go. You will be busting my poor man light cherry, as it were. And then next week I'll be telling you guys about how I just put two spotlights in my game.
    32:02
    After he put out the fire. And then after that the next week I be calling Scott and say Hey Scott I sorry I left you man I coming back Yeah exactly Because Scott makes the best Penn Stadium lights They awesome They're fucking awesome. I love them in my monster dash. They hold another level. Just what I think. I don't need Penn Stadiums. It's a great light show. And Scott, once again, now I've talked to Scott three times on this episode. We'll make it four. Scott, if you're listening and you want to sponsor the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, I will throw out my shitty poor man's lights and I will buy some Penn Stadiums for the Simpsons this fucking guy alright shilling away shill shill shill always shilling always be shilling right is that a thing it is now alright what else we got man not much left huh we're really cruising through today we're at 35 minutes we might actually do it today folks we could bullshit for 10 minutes wow wait wait because every time we have said we're going to do a shorter podcast about 10 times in our 12 episodes and we failed 10 times in our 12 episodes yeah exactly exactly so are you looking forward to let's kind of revisit uh eric's um interview eric pripke from uh episode 10 yeah what do you think about cactus canyon being now you've played it at his house what do you think of it being the next in line for remake according to eric by the way thank you again for the thank you it was an amazing it was um i dig it man yeah you think it's good one it's fun do you see bubble heads post on pinst uh pinside he's a guy again who lives on pinside uh but you know he was oh the only guy that lives on pinside the one oh that's him yeah no he uh he basically tried to start this whole you know anti cactus canyon for the next remake like he's like was that big bang bar would be better i don't know who that was but yes i read it yeah no he just he named like adam's family all the ones you've been mentioning yeah he would rather see those than cactus canyon it sounds like he used to own this one so at least he's got that going for him like he's not like me where i'm like it's a cowboy with him i never played it i don't want it but no he actually owned it didn't like it um but you've played it and a lot of people are not backing him they're they're backing cactus canyon as a fun game and i think i was in this guy's camp before because yeah i'm always like oh you know totan or theater magic or you know yeah even the adams family but once again there are a lot of those out there and you know you can make the argument there's a lot of medieval madnesses and you know attack from mars out there too so there's not a lot of cactus canyons no that's my point oh my point is is that there's a lot of family yeah yes yeah all the all those other ones i named except for totan there wasn't a ton of yeah um you know there's a ton of them out there right but yeah cactus canyon big bang bar and um what did we just say um totan you know those three are ones that there aren't a lot out there so all that to say it's fun man yeah the theme once again don't really care it's you know it's cowboys but right cool toys cool shots uh if they can finish the code it might be yes might be a good good hit for them yeah i had i had one or two good games on it i probably put you know five or six not a ton of games but um yeah i think i think anyone will enjoy shooting it. And yeah, these people, once again, you know, these people like bitching and moaning, well, you know, now there's so much pinball to buy, you know, we're so spoiled. Because, you know, it's not like, it's not like a year, even a year ago or two years ago, there wasn't that much pinball, you know, new pinball that is, you know, and now there's so much new pinball that, you know, you have 20 or 30 choices just from the last couple of years. And that's going to continue. What are the odds CGC releases two games next year?
    36:15
    Cactus Canyon and maybe an original Or Cactus Canyon and Big Bang Bar Whatever Always manufacturing, man That's what it always comes down to I guess they've got to finish the LEs, right? Did they ever finish those Monster Bash LEs? Yeah, some people are getting them I think distributors have some now I mean, they're just You know, it's I don't know I hear you, brother I hear you Manufacturing I don't know if we can say that enough. I mean, get it together. There needs to be like one company. I don't know, like Stern. You know, maybe Stern just starts manufacturing for everybody.
    36:53
    Seriously. No, just hear me out, Gary. See, I'm talking to everyone in this episode. Gary Stern, hear me out. You know, you're all about making money. You know, you don't care quite as much about, you know, fantastic pinball. You just want good pinball that you can keep churning out. and that's awesome. You know, good location pinball. So, yeah, use your extra lines and just start making everyone's machines. Pump them through. I'm sure all the manufacturers love hearing that one.
    37:21
    Well, it's a win for everybody, though, truly. Because if, let's just say, okay, not Stern, but let's just say Magic Company A starts making... What if the price goes up on the machines then? Because you've got to pay Stern to manufacture it.
    37:37
    Stern's going to make some money. Sure, but they can make more machines then. They can make more titles. They can sell more machines. I got you. Yeah, that's all. I got you. I don't agree.
    37:48
    Send your hate mail over at poormanspinball at gmail.com. If you have a better idea, and almost every idea is better than that, send it.
    37:58
    Hey, we're spitballing. We're at the 40-minute mark, so it's okay to spitball. After editing, though, we're back down to 20. all right well i think we should wrap it up i think so man wrap it up cue the music we did it it's good 45 minutes we're at 40 and i figure if we bullshit for another five minutes it'll be fine wow i know i know i am how's it feel it feels really good actually light i thought it's like going on a diet yeah i thought i was gonna feel like a void of me not talking for two hours but well when you don't play games and don't do love letters all of a sudden you don't really have a lot to talk about speaking of which we're gonna do love let no one know um did we have uh we did have a couple of like shout out mailbag things though did we want to uh what do we have oh uh our friend brad reminded us that uh our other friend ian haror he took what was the second All right. Brad Hopkins says, hey, guys. Thought you might want to know that our friend of the show, Ian Howerwer,
    39:06
    Rich Fuck Ian, as I like to call him, came in second in the New York City Pinball Championship Classic Division.
    39:14
    Shit. Wow, way to go, Ian. Shit. So we have fans that can play some kick-ass pinball. That's awesome. Yeah, some known name, Bowen.
    39:25
    That's right. Why do you finish that with? some no-name uh bowen uh kerns uh karen's kerns kerns karen's yeah was the was the winner was all he came second to bowen not bad my friend not bad at all not bad ian that's awesome brother classic division that must be like solid state before or no idea or uh ems even maybe i don't know but you know what this is one thing i will do ian you're on the short list of t-shirts if If we ever get some T-shirts in, we'll just send them to you.
    40:02
    Wear them when you go to tournaments. Oh, there you go. All right. So other than that, man. Or use them to wash and wax your car or whatever. Yep, yep. No, other than that, that is the mailbag. Mailbag. But thank you, everyone, for tuning in. This was a pleasure. It was. It was a good time. It is good to be back, even though I missed the island. But it's still good to be back. It's good to be back to podcasting in a weird way. But all right, guys. Will you take care? Always, always, always keep playing more pinball. Play more pinball. All right, guys. Peace. Bye-bye.
    40:56
    We'll be right back. Outro Music