Episode 50 - Rooting for the Citizen

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 20m·held·Dec 4, 2017

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Deep Root Pinball interview sparks debate over tone, Zidware litigation, and pinball manufacturing challenges.

Summary

In Episode 50 of Eclectic Gamers Podcast, hosts Dennis and Tony discuss recent pinball developments including their experiences with Guardians of the Galaxy at 403 Club, a surprise Walking Dead code update, Highway Pinball's financial struggles and revised fulfillment strategy, American Pinball's Houdini progress, and notably, Deep Root Pinball controversial interview with This Week in Pinball regarding their acquisition of Zidware assets and pursuit of Magic Girl production.

Key Claims

Walking Dead received a surprise massive code patch addressing multiple bugs including system reset exploits and jackpot scoring issues, with no zero-point jackpot starts on repeat hits.
high confidence · Dennis described attending 403 Club tournament where he played Walking Dead with new code, noting it was a major patch released without announcement in Stern newsletter.
Highway Pinball acknowledged financial troubles worse than initially disclosed, with new buyers getting priority over 2015 pre-order customers, and requiring game sales to fund pending refunds.
high confidence · Dennis cited Highway's public announcement and separate reports of SE pre-order customers still waiting while new CoinTaker buyers receive games in under a month.
Deep Root Pinball is in negotiation with artist Zombie Yeti and has issued legal threats against American Pinball over unresolved matters, possibly involving Magic Girl licensing.
high confidence · Dennis summarized bullet points from This Week in Pinball interview with Deep Root head (identified as attorney).
Deep Root Pinball claimed in interview that making pinball is easy, drawing criticism from community but defended by Dennis as potentially overused excuse for delays.
high confidence · Dennis and Tony both referenced Deep Root's statement multiple times in interview and discussed its implications for manufacturing difficulty discourse.
American Pinball's Houdini game prototypes were built in three months as a press counteroffensive, with year-end shipping still targeted but completion timeline extended.
medium confidence · Dennis noted the three-month prototype turnaround was intentional PR strategy, and that timeline expectations remain on track for end-of-year shipping based on programmer updates.
Spooky Pinball's route operator in Kansas City area refused to stock TNA due to reliability issues, claiming the machine was broken 3 out of 7 days per week.
high confidence · Dennis cited Facebook discussion where route operator stated this reason for declining TNA, despite claims it would be a top earner.

Notable Quotes

“it can't earn when it's broken three out of seven days a week”
Spooky route operator (cited by Dennis) @ ~6:45 — Reveals reliability concerns driving boutique manufacturer adoption resistance among operators.
“a delicious examination of the psychology of an attorney that almost comes across as a villain in a john grisham novel”
Dennis @ ~24:30 — Characterizes tone of Deep Root interview as unusually aggressive and legalistic for pinball industry discourse.
“we're the best. We're better than anybody in the entire world. and everybody else is just going to be just might as well not even exist anymore once we hit the market”
Tony (paraphrasing Deep Root's interview tone) @ ~26:15 — Captures perceived arrogance in Deep Root Pinball's public statements.
“I don't think it's nearly as hard as people constantly try and make you think it is. They only were building these freaking games since, what, the 30s? It's not.”
Dennis @ ~31:00 — Challenges industry narrative that pinball manufacturing is inherently difficult, suggesting this is used as excuse for delays.
“I bet you his design is done i don't i don't know about it getting made i think it's a long shot”
Tony (re: Barry Osler's Highway Pinball game) @ ~15:30 — Expresses skepticism about Highway Pinball's ability to survive beyond Alien release.
“I'm actually, if anything, amazed that people are actually buying games, considering it's flat out, well, we need people to buy games so we can afford to give refunds”
Dennis @ ~11:45 — Highlights perverse incentive structure in Highway Pinball's cash flow requiring new sales to fund old refunds.

Entities

DennispersonTonypersonJohn PapadukepersonBarry OslerpersonScott Danesiperson Zombie YetipersonApple JuicepersonZack Sharpperson

Signals

?
business_signal: Highway Pinball's $8,000 Alien pricing in crowded mid-market segment facing competition from cheaper Stern Pro models and less expensive alternatives.
medium · Dennis: 'Houdini's are cheaper than that Stern pros are cheaper than that you can get stern premiums about that price i mean the only ones that are really over them honestly is jersey jack and dutch.'
?
business_signal: Highway Pinball's cash flow crisis forcing prioritization of new sales over long-standing pre-orders, with refund ability dependent on game sales revenue.
high · Dennis: 'New buyers are going to the front of the line over at least a portion of the pre-order buyers' and 'They don't have the money. They have to sell more games to get enough money to do the refunds.'
?
community_signal: Deep Root Pinball's aggressive interview tone, legal threats, and speculative claims about programmer breach of contract generated significant community pushback.
high · Dennis characterizes responses as 'delicious examination of the psychology of an attorney that almost comes across as a villain' with 'bold answers' and tone described as 'lawyerly' and 'snooty.'
?
community_signal: Slam Tilt Podcast mentioned Eclectic Gamers' North American Pinball Tour EM Talk episode positively, though withheld details of secretive game acquisition deal.
medium · Dennis: 'they mentioned our episode with Nick from North American Pinball Tour on our EM Talk' and noted 'Nick had secured them some super secret game that they aren't yet revealing.'
~
sentiment_shift: Route operator rejection of Total Nuclear Annihilation due to reliability concerns creating lasting damage to Spooky Pinball's operator trust in Kansas City area.

Transcript

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0:00

Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, December 3rd, and this is episode 50. We made it. We're over the hill. That's 50 years old. Kick, stretch, kick. 50. Did you ever see that skit from SNL?

0:31

No. Then that made no sense to you. But it was funny back in the 90s. Well, that's impressive for an SNL skit from the 90s to be funny. There were a few of them. There were a few.

0:45

I'm Tony. Oh, okay. I'm Dennis. And what have you been doing, Dennis? Oh, gosh. Nothing. Nothing good. I did go out to the monthly pinball tournament at the 403 club last night they have a guardians of the galaxy now so how was it I didn't get to go obviously because of I'm on call and we're having issues at work so I couldn't go but I saw the post on Facebook that they had it and there might have been some under the breath swearing as I stared at my work computer and knew you were off having a chance to play it I only got one whole game in on it. I didn't get any tournament games on it. I did get one in, though, before. I got there early enough because I saw that it was set up. So I was like, I'm going to get in there. I'm going to at least get a game on it. I liked it for, I mean, when you look at it, when you're playing it, different people had different reactions. I didn't hear anyone who didn't really like it, but some people look at it and they feel very Metallica about it. I look at it and I get more of the Iron Man feel because of the war machine kickback is the rocket kickback and things like that. But it's fun to load up Groot. I like the orb shot. And it's a Borg design, so I don't think you can backhand those ramps. I think you have to do those front-hand shots just like you would on either Metallica or Iron Man. So it's got a pretty significant challenge amount. My ball times were not Iron Man short, but probably about Metallica short, which Metallica was a pretty difficult game for me. Not quite as bad as Iron Man on time, but, you know, challenging. and very colorful and of course the sounds are fun so that was really neat and I also got to in tournament actually play Walking Dead and the reason why I'm going to note that we'll hit it in the pinball segment but there was actually a surprise code update to Walking Dead and they were installing that just before the tournament started so I got to do a little bit with that other than that not a whole lot going on I thought I'd note a couple other little things in the intro, though. I've been kind of, fingers crossed, holding out hope that we were going to get a total nuclear annihilation on location. I hadn't heard anyone planning to do it, but I just kind of hoped that we would see it because it was such a fun white wood. And as we noted, I'm aware of one area collector who had indicated interest in acquiring one. Well, I did see in one of our area Facebook discussions, which actually was talking about Guardians of the Galaxy, someone had mentioned that they really wanted to play TNA or total nuclear annihilation and unfortunately the route operator I thought was the most likely to get it said that they couldn't afford to roll the dice on another spooky machine and when someone else weighed in saying but TNA would be a top earner they responded that it can't earn when it's broken three out of seven days a week and so while I remember the last time I ever saw the Rob Zombie game on route it was broken I did not realize it was breaking that many times But it just goes to show how one bad experience can really turn people off to a boutique company. And now at this stage, I don't think we'll ever see one en route in the Kansas City area, at least not while it's in production.

Deep Root's settlement terms for Zidware customers were offered then withdrawn, with aggressive-toned legal document explaining the reversal.

high confidence · Dennis referenced linked documents in This Week in Pinball interview describing both settlement offer and withdrawal justification.

Walking Dead Remasteredgame

Highway Pinballcompany

CoinTakerorganization

Stern Pinballcompany

high · Dennis: 'just goes to show how one bad experience can really turn people off to a boutique company' and route operator stated machine 'broken three out of seven days a week.'

competitive_signal: Guardians of the Galaxy positioned as Borg-design title with similar complexity to Iron Man/Metallica, generating positive community reception at location placement.

medium · Dennis: 'Borg design, so I don't think you can backhand those ramps' and 'ball times were not Iron Man short, but probably about Metallica short' and 'I didn't hear anyone who didn't really like it.'

design_philosophy: Deep Root Pinball's claim that 'making pinball is easy' challenges industry narrative of manufacturing difficulty, though hosts debate whether this conflates design with execution/business management.

high · Dennis: 'making pinball is easy' statement 'has become this sort of rote statement now and i think it's used as an excuse a little too much' and Tony: 'I don't think it's nearly as hard as people constantly try and make you think it is.'

licensing_signal: Deep Root Pinball's acquisition of Zidware assets and Magic Girl title involves complex licensing/IP control issues with American Pinball, now resulting in threatened litigation.

high · Dennis: 'threatening to litigate against American Pinball' and 'I'm assuming that has to do with the license or who controls Magic Girl. It might involve some of the other Zidware games.'

personnel_signal: American Pinball's three-month prototype turnaround for Houdini was deliberate press/recovery strategy following earlier company troubles, not representative of typical development pace.

medium · Dennis: 'they had to do something, and I think it worked really well for them' and 'They had to have something to counteract where they were due to their whole issue.'

personnel_signal: Zack Sharp transitioned to marketing role at Stern Pinball and launched Stern of the Union newsletter as communication channel.

high · Dennis: 'Stern of the union newsletter that uh zack sharp now that he's in charge of marketing with Stern Pinball has started up.'

announcement: This Week in Pinball conducted lengthy interview with Deep Root Pinball leadership covering Zidware acquisition, Magic Girl status, design philosophy, and litigation plans.

high · Dennis: 'just a few days ago, an interview with them was published and conducted by This Week in Pinball' with multiple substantive topics covered.

product_concern: Walking Dead received massive bug fix patch addressing system resets, jackpot scaling, and mode stability issues, indicating post-release code maturity work.

high · Dennis: 'massive amount of cleanup to it' with fixes to 'ways, if you got deep enough in the game, that it could reset the entire system' and jackpot rebalancing.