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Episode 109: Ahh Yes

This Flippin' Podcast·podcast_episode·57m 9s·analyzed·Apr 28, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited remake announcement analyzed with pricing, specs, and market outlook; operator discusses location machine rotations.

Summary

Tommy Skinner announces and deeply analyzes Haggis Pinball's new Fathom Revisited remake, discussing pricing ($7,300 Classic / $8,900 Mermaid Edition limited to 250 units), features, production timeline, and market implications. He also covers his recent ownership experiences with Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses (which he sold after 6 weeks due to poor gameplay experience and location performance) and his acquisition of a pristine Data East Jurassic Park, while updating listeners on his home restoration projects.

Key Claims

  • Fathom was originally released in 1981 by Bally and sold approximately 3,500 units

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner, Episode 109, citing historical data on Fathom production

  • Fathom Mermaid Edition is limited to a production run of 250 units

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner citing official Haggis Pinball specifications

  • Haggis Pinball is partnering with Planetary Pinball for US distribution of Fathom Revisited

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner discussing partnership and credibility

  • Haggis plans to produce five games in a classic Bally remake series, starting with Fathom

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner citing Haggis's stated plans

  • Haggis will relocate to a new facility in July and plan to produce approximately 50 machines per month

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner citing Haggis production timeline announcement

  • Jersey Jack raised Guns N' Roses pricing by $1,000 around New Year's, from initial $6,750 to $7,750

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner describing his personal purchase experience with price lock-in

  • Tommy's Guns N' Roses only earned $7 in its final full week of location play, underperforming significantly versus Hot Wheels and his EM Prospector

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner citing specific earnings data from his location

  • Original Fathom machines sell on the secondary market for approximately $5,500-$6,000 based on recent Pinside sales data

    high confidence · Tommy Skinner citing Pinside pricing and recent marketplace sales

  • Medieval Madness remakes launched at $8,000 when original restored machines were selling for $16,000-$20,000

    medium confidence · Tommy Skinner drawing historical analogy to justify Fathom pricing strategy

Notable Quotes

  • “Fathom is my top classic game. It's one that I have had restored...it's been sitting in my living room...and nor will it [move].”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~7:45 — Establishes personal investment in the game and credibility for analyzing the remake

  • “It's just flat out, Medieval Madness was the most expensive game that was being sold before the remakes...when the remake came out initially announced at $8,000 it was a steal, it was a bargain.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~22:30 — Provides market context for justifying premium Fathom Revisited pricing strategy

  • “Hats off to Haggis. I think this is a genius idea...the supply of them had to be lower the older these things are the more of them that have been destroyed over time.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~35:00 — Validates remake strategy by highlighting scarcity and collector demand for original games

  • “I personally did not enjoy playing the game. I did not find it very fun...the music was great because it's Guns N' Roses. The sound effects, I was not a fan of at all.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~46:00 — Direct critique of Guns N' Roses gameplay and sensory experience affecting location performance

  • “It was nothing but walk up, lock your balls, and start November rain...the game just felt very lopsided to me.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~48:30 — Specific gameplay criticism of Guns N' Roses rule design and early strategy dominance

  • “my location is not super busy...But $7 for an entire week on a new game was...not normal. It's not good...out-earned by my EM, Prospector, and Prospector only cost a quarter to play.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~50:45 — Quantified evidence of Guns N' Roses poor location performance and operator regret

  • “I was literally in there...and one of my players, he was playing on Hot Wheels...he was literally like, Tommy, I just have fun every time I play this machine. Why is this one so much fun?”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~65:00 — Contrasts positive casual player experience with Hot Wheels versus negative Guns N' Roses experience, highlighting design effectiveness

Entities

Haggis PinballcompanyFathom RevisitedproductFathomgameTommy SkinnerpersonPlanetary PinballcompanyGuns N' Rosesproduct

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Haggis Pinball announces Fathom Revisited with two editions (Classic/Mermaid), complete feature list, pricing, and production timeline

    high · Teaser released one day, full announcement next day with simultaneous podcast/website coordination; official specs from Haggis and Planetary Pinball

  • ?

    product_launch: Mermaid Edition Fathom Revisited limited to 250 units with 48-hour exclusive ordering window for Clan Haggis members ($75-$80 membership fee)

    high · Tommy Skinner citing official release schedule; Clan Haggis early access model similar to Spooky Fan Club

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Haggis Pinball moving to new facility in July with target of 50 units per month production capacity

    high · Tommy Skinner citing Haggis announcement; 250 Mermaid units = 5-6 months production at low end, pushing into December delivery

  • $

    market_signal: Original Fathom machines selling on secondary market for $5,500-$6,000; Haggis pricing remake at $7,300 Classic/$8,900 Mermaid vs estimated restoration cost of $6,000+

    high · Tommy Skinner analyzing Pinside pricing data and recent sales; comparing to his own $6,000 restoration with additional $1,300 in chrome

  • ?

    product_strategy: Medieval Madness remake launched at $8,000 when originals sold for $16,000-$20,000; current Chicago Gaming remakes (Monster Bash, Attack from Mars) face lower secondary market comparables

    high · Tommy Skinner drawing explicit historical analogy to justify Fathom pricing and noting concern about future games in planned 5-game series

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.171

0:00
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Se- Seem- Seem- Help me! Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho! Help! Surface! Air supply gone! Help me! Air gone! Air tank's refilled! Seem- away inside my head! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Defton! Now I'm gonna get you out of this! Ah, yes! Ah, attack! Now! Perfect! We win! Release, attack, diver, trap Seek them, help me Help, surface, surface, air support Help me, they're gone, that's an extreme Seek them, go away, die, again Seek them, die, fallow, trap I like those odds. Welcome everybody to this flippin' podcast. This is your host Tommy Skinner. We are coming to you for episode 109. Ah yes, as Haggis Pinball has just dropped a bomb on the pinball world over the last couple days with their announcement of Fathom 2.0 Revisited coming to us from down under out of Australia.
1:42
It is quite shocking. Really impressed how well it was kept under wraps, especially considering the large number of people involved with the project. kudos to them for keeping this so well hidden from the frequently gossipy network of pinball social media honestly through pinside and facebook groups and instagram and everything nowadays i really didn't hear any rumors of this until haggis made their announcement you know kind of the day before as the tease and then later that night kind of leaked as to what it was most likely going to be. I know initial rumors said Jaws. Somebody with some know-how contacted me very quickly saying who actually has the Jaws license and that it is taken by somebody right now, so they knew it wasn't going to be Jaws. And that kind of left the window open for it to be Fathom Revisited. And as many of you who have been listening for years know, Fathom is my top classic game. It's one that I have had restored, originally restored by my friend Dane. It's been sitting in my living room after its initial debut at Pinball at the Zoo a couple years ago, maybe three years ago now.
3:02
And then it's been out one other time for a tournament at my location, and since then it has not moved, and nor will it.

Haggis kept the Fathom Revisited announcement secret with minimal leaks despite many people involved in the project

high confidence · Tommy Skinner commenting on the announcement execution and opsec

  • “The cleanest Daddy East Jurassic Park I've ever seen. The subway was even clean. The T-Rex works. The cabinet has no scuffs on it.”

    Tommy Skinner @ ~70:00 — Describes acquisition of exceptional condition vintage machine with provenance from Microsoft office

    • Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    Marty Robbinsperson
    Ward Pembertonperson
    Greg Ferrisperson
    Damian Hartonperson
    Greg Selbyperson
    Scott Seedsmanperson
    Casey Deanperson
    Lachlan Dowdperson
    Hot Wheelsproduct
    American Pinballcompany
    Data East Jurassic Parkproduct
    This Week in Pinballorganization
    Centaurgame
  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Tommy Skinner's negative experience with Guns N' Roses (sold after 6 weeks) contrasts with positive reception of American Pinball Hot Wheels, signaling gameplay accessibility as differentiator

    high · Detailed earnings comparison ($7/week for GNR vs 10x for Hot Wheels); player feedback about enjoyability; casual player frustration with complex rules

  • ?

    product_concern: Guns N' Roses exhibits early dominant strategy (lock balls, start November Rain) that Tommy Skinner criticizes as 'lopsided' and overpowering, suggesting code immaturity

    high · Tommy Skinner detailed gameplay critique; expectation that future code updates will 'develop and balance' the game

  • ?

    operational_signal: Tommy Skinner's location (25 machines, music venue) shows Hot Wheels significantly outearning Guns N' Roses; Jurassic Park acquisition fills rotation; detailed weekly earnings tracking

    high · Specific earnings data ($7 GNR week vs Hot Wheels consistent top earner); machine rotation details; player feedback on enjoyability

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Contrast between Hot Wheels' casual-friendly design ('great choreography', synced effects, understandable rules) vs Guns N' Roses' complex depth alienating casual players

    high · Direct player quotes about Hot Wheels fun factor; analysis of GNR complexity causing non-engagement; comparative location earnings

  • ?

    collector_signal: Mermaid Edition Fathom Revisited limited to 250 units with 48-hour exclusive window; Tommy Skinner notes potential secondary market dumping of originals as buyers anticipate remake

    medium · Tommy Skinner observing pattern from Medieval Madness remake era; recent Fathom sales data showing 7-8 units in 6 months (elevated vs typical)

  • ?

    historical_signal: Original Fathoms difficult to find due to 3,500-unit production run and attrition (fires, floods, storage); scarcity justifies premium remake pricing vs newer Sterns with longer production runs

    high · Tommy Skinner's collection strategy shift to classics; analysis of game scarcity vs Stern availability; justification for remake feasibility

    • 3:10
    But regardless, I was just really exciting for them to come out with this title. And we're going to talk a bit about that, as well as some of the other rumors that are out there. But for those of you unfamiliar with Fathom, which is quite possible, as there's not a ton of them around, and not a ton of them out for public location play for sure, the game was originally released in 81. It's one of the members of that class of 81 ballets that includes things like Centaur, 8 Ball Deluxe Flash Gordon just 8 amazing games came out that year From Valley all very beautiful unique art packages, unique shots different layouts but it's initial run was only 3500 units talking to some operators from back in that time period Fathom did not do great on location basically you're looking at a deep sea theme if you were to just look at it you clearly see the ocean and some mermaids but in the early 80s you gotta imagine this is just after star wars is coming out and everything is sci-fi you know that's what you're looking for uh sci-wise sci-fi and outer space aliens those type of themes it's also at the rise of the video game evolution going into arcades so it just was not good timing for a theme like fathom um now as far as the art package goes it's always been widely considered as an absolutely beautiful machine and as that rumors start to broke break that maybe fathom 2.0 was what was coming from haggis that was the initial concern from several people is like well you know fathom is a great playing game without a doubt but a huge part of the appeal of fathom is the visual presentation so if you're gonna remake that and change something that's gonna hurt the game and as soon as they showed the photos you quickly saw that they did not change anything uh it looks like fathom the only difference that i really see is instead of it saying bally it says haggis which is a little weird it does look strange um they've copied the old bally font to make it kind of blend in but that's the only like immediately visual thing that i find very strange looking at the game from the prototypes that the photos they've released it's of the mermaid edition there are two editions we will run through the breakdown of the differences between them but the mermaid edition has what looks like a classic ballet apron but instead of instruction cards there are two small i believe they said they're three and a half inch lcd screens where you would usually have your instruction and pricing cards. The flippers have now been changed to a translucent blue on the prototype versus the traditional white flippers, which most people who restore a Fathom put in. I do believe that's what's in my Fathom machine as I'm thinking about it. And then just a small thing, and again, this is only a prototype. I have noticed that the font is different on the 1, 2, 3 drop targets. I'm not even complaining, just pointing it out. so I'm sure that's something that can be changed or will be changed or maybe that's part of something that's supposed to stand out that's different versus the original appears to have blue star post and clear titan style rubbers on the game can't make out what is on the drop targets themselves but seeing as how original valley drop targets are available for fathoms they typically have a mermaid's tail and they are foil stamped on there in both green and blue on the left side and then on the inline drop targets on your right and your back orbit shot. They have the values of your bonus multiplier, your 3x, 4x, and 5x stamped on them. So I imagine those are going to be the same. The spinner features the same yellow anglerfish, and the pop bumper can't appear to have the foil-stamped octopus located on them as well. So as far as just looking at the game, it looks like a bally. The Coindor is, I'm guessing, an original creation. It appears to be a hybrid of a modern Coindor with a visual appearance of a classic ballet to an extent.
    7:33
    Anyone who's restored a classic ballet and gone through a Coindor knows that they were the most over-engineered piece of entertainment coin-op and equipment ever. and I'd really be happy to see that simplified on this product because it's just so unnecessary the way those coin joists were put together back then that a much simpler modern system with just a couple buttons to go into the menu system would be amazing. Back glass looks good. Displays are digital up there.
    8:03
    Solid state scoring, numeric it appears. although you can see at least in their photos of the full machine that there does appear to have the functionality to put words in them so alphanumeric as in other photos it says play one play two play three play four and it's hard to tell if that's like photoshopped imagery or if that's actual photograph of the displays being lit up another unique function that's going to be in their mermaid edition for those displays is that the displays are actually color coordinated they're rgb which i don't think has ever been done before never seen that um most of the games i've been restoring i put in white displays and then i can use a colored film over the display if i want to change its appearance um i did that on my stargazer i put in yellow yellow gel filters so my displays on stargazer appear to be yellow but they're actually white as far as the company itself the ceo is damian harton the game developer is greg selby creative director scott seedsman music director casey dean mechanical engineering lachlan dowd game designer for the 2.0 rules is martin robbins original designer is ward pemberton with artwork from greg ferris and again they made 3 500 of those now as far as pricing going goes that's where we get to our two editions you have your classic is going to be 7,300 us dollars. So you're basically paying a stern premium price. Plus you're going to have to deal with shipping, um, from Australia. So probably closer to LE pricing to get yourself a fathom. Um, that is expensive, but it is also the most expensive classic ballet game there is out there.
    10:01
    So that, I'm assuming, is factored in. That topic has come up as why the company would choose to produce this game first, and I think it's very much like Medieval Madness remakes, in that it's just flat out, Medieval Madness was the most expensive game that was being sold before the remakes.
    10:18
    If you were in the hobby at that point in time, before that remake was announced, Project Medieval Madnesses were going for $10k plus. restored ones were $16,000 to $20,000 so when the remake came out initially announced at $8,000 it was a steal, it was a bargain you couldn't find a Medieval Madness for that now as Chicago Gaming has moved on to remake Monster Bash and Attack from Mars the prices come down because the reality is those games were never selling for as high prices as Medieval Madness were and I think that's something that Haggis is going to have to look at as they have already announced they plan to do an entire series of these classic valley games I really struggle to see anyone paying these prices for any of the other valley games that are out there except for maybe Centaur even with revised rules and the modern upgrades etc. I just don't think they go or sell for that much so it's going to be harder to justify those prices but that's a topic for future episodes. Let's see how they handle this fathom first but again, price wise you're looking at the 7360 before shipping for the classic edition.
    11:29
    And then they also have the mermaid edition, which is going to be your limited one. That is limited to a production run of 250.
    11:38
    And with that, the big change is it includes a 2.0 rule set, a mode-based addition to the game. As you go up and play, you can choose and select which version of the game you would like to play, much like Bride of Pinbot 2.0 or any of the other rewrites that have existed out there for other titles. So that is $8,900 US dollars.
    12:03
    Now you're looking at Stern LE pricing. That one does include shipping to Planetary Pinball in the US as they are partnered with Haggis on this project which does help give it a lot more credibility than just a random startup getting this with Planetary backing them, And Rick with licensing and Planetary having a lot of the original designs and manuals, etc.
    12:26
    Documentation on these machines. So anyway, once it gets to Planetary, then you're responsible for getting it shipped to your address here within the U.S. So there is still some additional costs on top of that. But again, the huge difference is the fact that you are now going to have the 2.0 rule set.
    12:44
    Here's where I'm going to run down to their feature matrix real quick. And again, this information is coming from both Haggis, Planetary, and then as well as This Week in Pinball. They did a great job as far as coordinating the launch. Literally, you had a teaser one day, the announcement the next day, and simultaneously podcasts were released, websites were updated, you could order, etc. Very good unveil from Haggis. I was very impressed with that.
    13:09
    On the Classic Edition, there is a 3.5 display for service menu that is mounted on the cabinet. I believe they said near the coin door. full RGB LEDs, inserts, and general illumination.
    13:24
    What's confusing about that is it says original colors on the Classic Edition. Most of the inserts on Fathom are green and blue, some white, a couple yellow, and a couple red. So I'm assuming that just means that those LEDs have that capability, but they are going to be running the original colors. And the same thing for the full RGB seven-segment score displays. that is also on the feature matrix but with an asterisk next to it that says original colors on the classic edition meaning the displays would just be orange the classic will have brush stainless steel trim brush stainless steel components a single speaker and the original 1981 fathom rule set when you jump up to the mermaid edition you get those rgb displays and rgb inserts you get the original rule set as well as the 2.0 rule set and then here's where your sort of LE upgrades really come on top of the rule set is it got mirror stainless steel trim mirrored playfield components a custom 5 speaker sound system a reflecto cab metallic reflective luminescent cabinet art dual apron integrated 6 inch LCD screen sorry not 3 and ambient below cabinet lighting so those are pretty big deal now as far as the layout goes if you familiar with fathom it's 15 drop targets you have three bank three bank three bank and a six bank the in lines are smart drop targets that can spot be spotted by completing the left drop targets in the six bank there's three green three blue knock down three blue it's pots you one of the smart targets in the blue line it's really really smart there is an accessory there will be a topper with ambient above cabinet lighting to be announced in the future there's also a specific comic the original was sort of promoted had some promotional material of a comic telling a story of what was going on in the game and there's a new comic to talk about what is being revisited with the revisited version of the 2.0 code and it appears to be story and mode based daughter of the original missing diver is returning to the lagoon where her father went missing and is going to investigate and that's where you're going to get into doing some battles with mermaids etc that's i mean that's a quick down and dirty summary um to order the mermaid edition you had to join clan haggis um which is not a big deal but it did sound weird when you are from the united States and you're getting an email that says join our clan just because clan can have a pretty negative connotation over here in the States. I'm assuming it's not necessarily that way in Australia. But that was, I think it's relatively like $75, $80 fee to join. You get some swag from them. They ship that over. But that was kind of like the spooky fan club. It's going to give you early access to order that mermaid edition. And they were going to run that sale for 48 hours, which will be ending today. Today is, by the way, April 28th. It might be over now. It might have been at noon. It's a little bit after noon here. I don't know. At some point today, that option ends. At that point, if there were any Mermaid Edition left, they were going to be opened up for sale to the public. On top of that, the Classic Edition is not limited in any capacity and can be ordered essentially whenever. I don't know how many of those you're going to sell at that price because even at that price like for my full-blown restored like new everything except for my cabinet was repainted but it's the original cabinet my back glass was like a perfect original so i didn't have to replace that but new playfield plastics all the parts replayed it etc um i mean quite honestly i ended up right around six thousand dollars into that and mine is a over the top restoration with oh sorry i'm recording from school today and we have a teacher work day and there goes the bell, but, uh, and my game has over, I think, $1,300 in chrome on it, um,
    17:17
    on top of that, I mean, I chromed everything, legs, side armor, lockdown bar, coin door, the vent, parts inside of the cabinet, um, I mean, it is a over-the-top restoration of that game, and I still end up relatively, what is that, almost $1,000 cheaper than buying this one from Australia. Now granted, that has a ton of work into it, and it's not all brand new parts necessarily. I mean, it is. So it's basically, it's just supply and demand. It's just a really difficult game to find. so I think that is one of the parts that's really going to help them as far as selling those out a lot of people rather just have that convenience of being able to purchase the game versus having to spend the time hunting and searching for it and hoping you can find one and then when you do find it figuring out how much work it is still going to take that sort of thing I'm just trying to pull up Fathom real quick via Pinside they have an estimated price of $5,600 on there and if you look closer estimated value of $51.80 to $6,020. So they're like $1,300 over the estimated price. But going into the forum,
    18:35
    there was a Fathom that sold 44 days ago. $5,500 it looks like. And there was another one five months ago, two, four months ago. Another one five months ago. another one six months ago so I mean it's not like it's insanely rare I mean this last six months there's seven or eight sales but it's also hard to say who already had some inside information that this was coming and they were dumping their originals like we've seen that happen with other remakes in the past I know Medieval Madness is definitely that way but again it's not a game that's impossible to find but it does take some work, it takes some effort on a buyer's part to find this So, regardless of that, hats off to Haggis. I think this is a genius idea. My collection has largely converted, especially my personal collection at home, to purely classic ballets and sterns. and one of the reasons is I've explained for that in the past is the reality that the likelihood of these games being remade was low and now that's obviously been changed but just the fact that the supply of them had to be lower the older these things are the more of them that have been destroyed over time played to death stuck in unfortunate storage unit fires or floods etc so they were just harder and harder to come by versus buying these new stern games where Stern runs a game for years. So if you really want it, that's great. Nothing wrong with that. Stern makes some awesome games. But you'll be able to buy one for a while. Whereas if I could put my money that I have now into these classics games that are not going to be as available in the future, it was just kind of the direction I wanted to go with my collection to the point of where I've even spent some time, and we'll talk about it, building some games. So that's where we're at.
    20:37
    Let us know what you guys think of this. What other games you think might be done as they expect. They said there's going to be five games in the series. I think Centaur is a no-brainer.
    20:48
    Centaur and Fathom are kind of the P.A. Stidler staunch of anyone's collection. They stand out. It's the games that everyone wants. Best art packages, etc. But then after that, it gets very murky on what might be remade because the values just aren't there for what those two games sell for in comparison to all the other classic ballets. So that'll be very interesting. But congratulations. Hats off to Haggis on the huge announcement. I hope you guys sell a ton of them. Hope you make them. Hope they're real solid for those of you that go out and buy them. I am excited to see these in the near future. They're planning to move to a new facility in July. And at that point they'll be building roughly 50 a month. So if you look at the Mermaid Edition, that's already putting you at 5 to 6 months of production. So you're already into holiday season in December if you're at the low end of those numbers with games coming in. And that's if they produce those first, which I assume they would, but who knows. So anyway, that is something that's fun and exciting to keep our eyes on. So far this year there hasn't been a ton of pinball news. I haven't recorded in almost three months and a big part of that reason was because there's just not much going on. As far as, sorry for the bell again, as far as for the industry news, announcements, etc. As far as my collection, we've had quite a few changes, so we'll kind of move off of Fathom Revisited and move into that direction.
    22:20
    The biggest thing is, I would say, I finally got to spend more time on the Twippy winning. I think it was Twippy winning, at least. I got confused with all the different pinball award shows this year. But Game of the Year has largely gone to Guns N' Roses from Jersey Jack Pinball. I was the proud purchaser and owner of a standard edition. The low end of that title is the first Jersey Jack game that I have purchased. I was very excited for the title because one, I like Guns N' Roses, and two, Jersey Jack was finally making something that was more affordable, and that was my number one factor, was the price factor in determining my purchase for that game. so I did order, I think, day after the announcement or day of the announcement.
    23:10
    The initial price was $6,750, which was the cheapest that Jersey Jack has released a game at. My location also doubles as a music venue, and they play heavy metal and hard rock music. It's a title that should fit in really well. that was my thought and then let's say what was it right around new year's jersey jack up their price by a thousand dollars luckily i was locked in where i'd gotten mine and then the game got delivered late february so yeah i definitely have not recorded since it arrived because i looked at my last release was early february um it arrived while i was coaching at the state finals towards the end of february and i came back got it all set up that weekend and it did really well at my location for like two weeks and then uh it did not get a lot of people coming back and playing it i ended up keeping the game for a total of about six weeks um now one thing i will say like game was built really well i had absolutely no problems on my unit specifically like not a thing wrong at all it was plug and play put the balls in there turn it on it was good to go from day one that part was really nice. I had a launch party. I reached out to Jersey Jack Pinball and asked if they would be willing to send us some stuff to give away as giveaways at the launch party. And they absolutely did that, including sending an upper play field from one of the LE models, some shirts, masks, and sanitizer, which was great to have for the players that were coming to play in the event. Really awesome support from Jersey Jack as far as wanting to get attention drawn to their machine and having it out there. I streamed the game several times. I know I backed up some of those streams to YouTube and Twitch. It's This Flippin' Podcast on Twitch and YouTube. They're out there. You can check those out. But the reality was, like, I personally did not enjoy playing the game. I did not find it very fun. I did not think that the shots were particularly enjoyable.
    25:23
    The music was great because it's Guns N' Roses. The sound effects, I was not a fan of at all. And there's a big difference because you are not necessarily always in a song when playing that. And the rest of it is sound effects. And I didn't think the sound effects really fit well with the band or with the song.
    25:43
    Mostly I just found some of them, like I am sensitive as a human, like just me personally, to certain sounds. And some of the sounds on the game really irritated me. To where even when I was going down and playing it, trying to learn the rule set, I would get kind of annoyed after maybe two, three games. And then in the last week that I had it there, it literally only earned $7.
    26:07
    Which, again, my location is not super busy. It's not like a crazy huge location. I think we have 25 machines total.
    26:16
    But $7 for an entire week on a new game was, It's not normal. It's not good. It was out-earned by my EM, Prospector, and Prospector only cost a quarter to play that week. It was sitting a couple games down from Hot Wheels from American Pinball, and American Pinball earned a little over 10 times that amount that week. So that was incredibly disheartening because I did spend a lot of money on this machine that I at least was thinking that it would draw in new players and people that are at my location would like it and play it. But the reality was it's got that typical Jersey Jack, very complex and deep rule set to the point where most of my more casual players couldn't understand what they were doing. Therefore, they didn't really enjoy themselves and they didn't come back and play the game again.
    27:14
    Amazing light show, absolutely. I thought the art looked pretty good on it. And again, the music and the sound quality as far as the music goes with the speakers and whatnot, top notch. Sound effects, I did not care for. And on a personal note, the rule set, I really didn't care for.
    27:31
    I'm sure that that game, the code is going to be more developed and more balanced. But for me right now, in any sort of competitive setting, it was nothing but walk up, lock your balls, and start November rain. If you get some patches on the way there, awesome. And I understand how the patch system works. because I did mess with the patch system a bit, but the game just felt very lopsided to me.
    27:54
    And just most importantly, this is a fun hobby where we can each like whatever we want, and I just did not have fun playing the game. It was not a fun machine for me to play.
    28:07
    Unfortunately. I wish it was, but it wasn't. So it quickly left, I think like three days after we did the launch party. After I had to sit there and stream that game and listened to it for the six or seven hours it took us to do the launch party, I was really, really over it and wanted it gone. So I posted it up for sale, and it sold very quickly. New owners are happy. It on another location in our state so it still being shared with the public And hopefully they get more enjoyment out of it than I did and hopefully it more popular up there but it just did not fit well at my location which I was, again, quite surprised by, but personally, it's just not a game that I have any desire to ever own again.
    28:48
    Probably play one when I see it on location from time to time, but I was very disappointed in it and just did not find it fun. That was my biggest thing. As far as quality goes, build quality and everything, no problems at all. That was all great. Good job, Jersey Jack. I know you guys have kind of tightened the screws on things, both figuratively and in reality over the years, but it was playing really well for us. It just was not something that I enjoyed. I know there's a ton of people out there who really do enjoy it, and that's great. That's what's so fun about pinball is that they get those options. So that came and went from my location. it is now gone in its place I did pick up a Data East Jurassic Park just last week that is a game that I've always wanted and yet for some reason I never actually owned and I was very fortunate in being contacted by a guy I knew and he's getting ready to move and he wanted to know if I wanted it and I did since I had sold Guns N' Roses figured I might as well go get this fill in that space and I didn't know the full story on the game until I got there and he told me but this particular guy actually used to work at Microsoft and they had a group there that played pinball because they had some pinball machines in a break room and apparently this was the Jurassic Park that was there and when he was leaving the company and moving back to the Midwest they allowed him to purchase it and from the looks of it this thing quite possibly could have been in their office the entire time I have no idea He's not that old that he was there that long ago. But it's the cleanest Daddy East Jurassic Park I've ever seen. The subway was even clean. The T-Rex works. The cabinet has no scuffs on it. Like, insanely clean. It has the original topper. No ball dropware from the ramps to the in-lanes.
    30:38
    I just can't believe it. So that's a game that I've always wanted. We've talked about it on the show how excited I was when the remake came because I never had the original. And right now my bar has my location. and Navarre has both Jurassic Parks there. So that has been really cool.
    30:56
    Something different for my players to play for a while, and it keeps us at our full load of 25 machines in there since we were down to 24 for a couple weeks. That's been cool seeing people get to play that. I'm trying to think what else we've changed since there. Hot Wheels is continuing to earn really well. Players, it's kind of the exact opposite of what I experienced with Guns N' Roses.
    31:19
    I was literally in there getting the Jurassic Park set up the other night, and one of my players, he doesn't play in any of our leagues and tournaments, but he comes down a couple nights a week and plays a few games of pinball because he's in some bowling leagues. He was playing on Hot Wheels, which is like three games down from where I was setting up, Jurassic Park, and he was literally like, Tommy, I just have fun every time I play this machine. Why is this one so much fun? And I just had to be like, I agree, man. I enjoy the shots on the game, the sounds, the rules. It's got this great choreography. Everything's synced really well to hitting the shots and getting the light show and the sound effects. and it's understandable. The players can figure out what it is that they're doing on that machine. Again, I strongly encourage anyone who gets a chance to go out and see a Hot Wheels pinball to actually play it and enjoy it. Hopefully you have as much fun as my players have been, but that game has continued to be my top earner. I think every week that it's been there, except for one week, I think Guns N' Roses' second week it passed it because I had a monthly tournament that week and people were there, came from all over to play it. Guns N' Roses has got to work out that day. but that was pretty much it um at home since we last recorded i i can't remember exactly where i was at but since then i have finished building my stargazer i don't think i've completely talked about that um i know i started it last summer while we were in quarantine i've definitely mentioned it but i finally pulled the playfield back out of the cabinet it's been in my garage all winter, which was dumb of me to leave it out in the weather-controlled garage all winter, but it was out there, and I pulled it in, and I ended up going back switch through switch on the wiring diagram, and I had wired six switches backwards, which explained a ton of my switch matrix issues that I was having when I did try to play a game on it. so I fixed those six I put it back in and now it was working switches were registering correctly but I still had like two rows out I think it was so I went and I started testing for continuity and I found I had a break in like a yellow red wire row of continuity and a white blue row and I just found where my breaks were and I ran some jumper wires and that was much more for me just not understanding how the wiring was supposed to be installed with my new harness than it was from any mistakes in the actual harnessing done by Third Coast Pinball. But I fixed those, and I was able to plug it in. And next thing you know, I was playing Stargazer, and that is amazing because Stargazer is another one of those very rare titles that you don't see very often in pinball. And I'm by no means the first. I think there have probably been like, I don't know, 5 to 10 maybe Stargazer that have been built at this point originally there was 869 of those produced from roughly August to November of 1980 so a very low production run Stern Electronics at this point was doing everything in lower production because they were quickly dying as a business but I think Stargazer is without a doubt the most beautiful of their games from an art package standpoint and like I said, I wish I had a better exact number on how many people have remade them, but I know of at least three others for sure with mine being the fourth, and I'm assuming there's a few more out there. But anyway, let's say it's in the 870s to 880, something like that now that could ever have existed of Stargazer. Imagine how many are left. It's out there and it plays and it works.
    34:56
    I had to kind of dial in my spinners a little bit. I'm running a modified rule set on that game. but it's absolutely amazing to currently go into my kitchen because that's still where it's at.
    35:10
    Sorry Alyssa, I said it would be there for a week and it's been there for like two months. And I can play a Stargazer that I put together with my own hands and it was far cheaper and that was going to bring me to kind of a tying note up with both the remake of Fathom and so many people building machines right now thanks to the abundance of reproduction parts and then honestly just the sharing of information via Pinside that makes these builds seem less daunting because I am by no means a super great tech or anything.
    35:55
    But right now, if you look at Pinside, the average value of Stargazer is $7,000. One just sold for $7,000 in Virginia this past month. It's in, honestly, really good shape to begin with, but it does come with a reproduction play field as well, if the person were to want to do that. There's one that was just posted for sale in the last couple days, I know for sure. I think they're also asking, yeah, $7,000. out in North Carolina. It's a rougher original example, but it still looks really nice.
    36:35
    I mean, it's an expensive game. So now Stern, modern day Stern, is to look at the fact that you have two in the last month that are going for seven grand. That's essentially the price of a Stern premium.
    36:48
    People are out there like me gathering parts to assemble these machines themselves for their collection. why would Stern not just start running these as classic remakes another Stargazer from a year ago for six thousand sold and that one is again looking at it it's a nice original but not restored cabinets got some bumps and scrapes playfields got a little bit of wear nothing crazy so if I'm Stern why am I not taking these old layouts and remaking them I imagine with the success of what seems like Fathom is having in just its first couple days that Stern is going to absolutely see this and they are going to start cranking out some of their old remakes as I know Stargazer and Quicksilver are the two most common games to be remade I do know other people gathering parts to remake Sea Witches and I know that there's a couple out there that are attempting to do Cheetahs as Cheetah Playfields just became available via CPR.
    37:58
    So that is another thing that I think we will have going on in the coming year. It's certainly a really exciting time to be involved with a pinball hobby as we start to see the light at the end of the tunnel of the pandemic year that has been 2020 and now into 2021. It's very exciting to see locations reopening from around the country in different states, more and more people being offered the opportunity to be vaccinated. I'm very fortunate that I was vaccinated.
    38:28
    Almost two months ago now, I got the Johnson & Johnson, the one dose and done, which I also appreciated since I hate getting shots. I was very excited to see that. And as a result of that, I did go and participate in a very large tournament up in Wisconsin at District 82 Pinball a couple weekends ago. So thank you to Eric for hosting that tournament. All the players who attended, it was great. I think we had over 80 players in both the morning classics tournament and the afternoon target match play tournament.
    39:00
    It was really nice to get back out and have some regular competition. We've been running tournaments at North End Pub, my location, since last October. We've been doing our monthly four strikes, and we've also held two seasons of league, and we are just starting, we're three weeks into our third season of league since the return of pinball last October. So location pinball has still been going on here for me. I recognize, sorry for the bell again, I recognize that I'm fortunate in that I'm in a state where we have been able to remain open with safety precautions in place, obviously, but it's better than nothing. So that part has been very nice. I've tried to continue to make additions of new things at my location for players who want to come out and enjoy pinball at the current time and the current atmosphere and it's been very fun and exciting time period to still do that and see people get to sort of return to a little bit of normalcy by coming and participating in a tournament or a league or a free pinball Wednesday night whatever it is that we have going on down there that's been very cool I have not taken my stargazer down there I don't know if I will or not, honestly, but I have that as an option. I did want to give a shout out to Koos, Pinball Backglass, the remaker or manufacturer, whatever you want to call it. I did get a couple more backglasses from him. He did a, sorry for the bell again, he did a custom one for me for Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom. So now I've got my backglass, playfield, and plastics ready to go for that. that is going to be my next restore once I finish up the meteor that is currently sitting in my garage and is really close to being done until I kind of decided to do a little extra work to the play field and I might have made a mistake or two so we're going to try and fix that before we talk about it too in depth so we can also give our solutions to the problems we created for ourselves but yeah there should be a meteor going on location soon as well I'm in the process of assembling some wolf pack displays sorry about that some wolf pack displays to go into the game two of my displays were completely dead and i got those replaced last night so my game is now fully has displays i've already rebuilt all the drop target mechs pop bumper mechs i got to get those reinstalled on the play field and uh honestly it's not very far away like i said minus the uh play field sort of uh artwork issues i created myself i'll get that fixed it'll be okay it's only pinball so with that news out of the way remake discussion kind of out of the way where are you obviously talk about some of the rumors that are out there Haggis just appears to be on the very forefront of exciting announcements as we head into what might be one of the busiest months in pinball ever but let's say Haggis is at the forefront we are sorely delayed and behind while waiting to hear what is coming from CGC as the next official remake. Although word is pretty strong out there that it is Cactus Canyon. I've been hearing that for a very long period of time.
    42:11
    CGC is also working on some original stuff, so I don't know when we'll see that. Spooky Pinball. Strong rumors were going for several days for Scooby-Doo. I don't think that is correct. I don't know what their next title is. personally what I'd love to see is Friday the 13th I don't know if that's what it is but if it is it's going to cost me money and that's unfortunate and I'll have to sell something but that's okay very excited for that as always still remain a huge Spooky fan I don't think there is a better company out there for customer service still there nobody I rather give my money to for a game than Spooky Pinball because I know who it is i supporting and how much i like them as humans i know he charlie emery just did a podcast this week with i believe martin and um oh man i apologize but name is escaping me in the moment i know who you are jeff thank you jeff teolis there it is yes with martin and jeff and it was great to hear Charlie talking to them about the new game and how it was really a team effort on the design. Go give their show a listen if you want to hear more about that. It's very intriguing.
    43:24
    Whatever the title is, I'm excited for Spooky to get that announced as they wrap up production here on Rick and Morty, which I think was a resounding success for them.
    43:32
    That should be coming here in the near future. Stern. Strong rumors were going that it was going to be either Godzilla or Back to the Future.
    43:44
    Now it's heavily pointing towards the Mandalorian. Credit to Stern for keeping things under wraps a lot better than they have in the past. I do believe it is. Actually, at this point, the Mandalorian sounds pretty concrete. Brian Eddy on design. This will be his follow-up to Stranger Things. Hearing upper playfield on the Ellie and Premium models. Immediately, if you think of Brian Eddy, you start to think of The Shadow. So that all kind of makes sense that the upper playfield would be a similar design. I have no concrete evidence of that whatsoever.
    44:18
    I don't know if anybody out there does at this point in time. But with it being the rumors that it is the Mandalorian,
    44:25
    May 4th, May the 4th, Star Wars Day, is just about a week away. So I would not be surprised if we were to get a teaser this Friday with an unveil on May 4th. May the 4th, may the force be with you. It also wouldn't surprise me if we got the teaser then and then the unveil a week later or something like that. But Stern has not announced anything since Led Zeppelin, which I did get to travel and play an LE version of the Led Zeppelin machine at Pinball at Perry in Attica, Indiana, another great location you should check out if you have time. Still had a lot of fun playing it. Reminds me very much of Aerosmith, a game I'm not dying to own, but whenever I see one, I'm definitely going to play it because I really enjoy it. I had fun. Shots are awesome. Game flows really well. Steve Ritchie, way to go on that one, man. I'm not usually a huge fan of your work, but that one I thoroughly enjoyed. Hopefully it sells well, because I think it's going to be one of those underrated titles here in a few years. It seems to have a really cool rule set on it, and the shots on the machine just felt fun, unlike the shots on Guns N' Roses, which to me didn't feel fun. So, way to go, Steve. Thank you for that game.
    45:33
    Looking forward to getting to spend some more time on that one in the near future. But that is the rumor going around for Stern at the moment. I don't know much else on there. I know I love at the end of episodes of Mandalorian where they show the storyboards and the sketch artworks, the art design proposals and stuff.
    45:51
    The sounds on that show are great. Music, the sound effects. It's just a very well done show. I'm not a huge Star Wars fan. I know we've talked about that on the show before.
    46:02
    But I really have enjoyed the Mandalorian. So I think that could convert well. things I'm nervous about for Stern and fans of the show is a feeling if it is coming out with season 2 having only ended a few months ago, I feel like it would be like Stranger Things where it's only going to include content from the first season which would be sorely disappointing I would assume to most fans of the show and Star Wars people we'll see what happens, if that is the upcoming release I think it'll do well. As many people have said, you put Baby Yoda on anything and it's going to sell like hotcakes. So Mandalorian could be coming in the near future here. So that covers us with Spooky. It covers us with Stern. Jersey Jack, still heavily rumored to have Toy Story in the pipeline. A game that's been in talks of being ready forever. I know Guns N' Roses was ready for quite a while and was delayed due to the pandemic, which they said just gave them more time to code it, which makes me think that whatever else would be coming next should be coming up sooner rather than later. Maybe possibly not a full year between Jersey Jack titles for once. That would be pretty impressive. So keep your eyes open and your ears open and see what's coming from them here in the near future. That one's rumored to be Pat Lawler's title. Could be exciting. I do know what American Pinball has in the pipeline. because I actually know. I don't want to talk about it, but I'll just say it's a title I'm excited for. I think it looks really fun and unique, so looking forward to that.
    47:41
    Who else do we have making pinball now? Oh, Deep Root. Deep Root continues to make jack shit. Absolutely nothing. Deep Root is failing left and right, but pinball is easy, so we don't have much to worry about. Congrats to them. Hope those of you who have money with Deep Root have put it in some sort of a safe way that you could get money back pending their, uh, their future failure, which is who knows when any day now, uh, unfortunate, but it just does not, things do not look good for Deep Root, uh, at this point in time based on, you know, everything that they keep putting out there that is completely and utter bullshit. So, uh, good luck Deep Root. Let's see. Uh, cover of all those trying to think what else It's been such a busy, busy time with all these things being delayed that it seems like things have been kind of put off. Oh, Alien. Alien Pinball from Pinball Brothers is the other one. Finally this week we got some unveiling videos from a gentleman in France. They're on Pinside. They're on YouTube. Can't remember his name, but I really did appreciate him putting those out there because that is a game that I've previously owned. That is a game that I am in for right now. I don't know if I've mentioned that before or not, but when they announced the remake of that, I ordered it on day one. In just the last couple days, the first delivery batch, which is rumored to be 20 or 22 machines, those individuals have gotten their invoices from Cointaker here in the United States, and that means that they are ready to pay for it, have their game shipped very, very soon.
    49:17
    Although I suspect they are coming out of container by boat. It's probably going to take several weeks still at this point. But that's the first batch. Apparently I am in the second batch because I did not get my final invoice yet, which doesn't totally surprise me because I didn't have access to a computer I could use to order from until I left school that day. So it was up for a few hours before I was able to make my order. But it should be coming here. I'm on the quarter one batch delivery, which is already basically being missed. But that was to be expected.
    49:45
    The video that was put out there of the unboxing and the setup, the guy had some initial sound issues. pinball brothers reached out and let them know that they suspected he just had two connectors swapped between his right speaker but it wasn't the sub and it turned out they were right all he had to do was undo and then put the two connectors back in the right places and he had a sound back so that part was good to see that there was customer support and his game looks to be playing well um i know a gentleman in france not that individual who made the unboxing videos also got his and he posted some stuff and i went full facebook stalker and creep mode on him and i messaged the guy, friended him, sent him a friend request, and he's like, why are you friend requesting me? And I let him know I saw that he had gotten the Alien Pinball Machine, and I was also someone who ordered it, and I just kind of wanted to get his impressions of it, you know, and he was like, oh, no problem, that totally makes sense, and he let me know that he was really happy with it, and that it was playing really well, but the software has some bugs that need to be worked out, which I think we saw if you watch a little bit of the gameplay in the unboxing video, see that guy's having some issues here and there, but that is to kind of be expected as they have ported it over to a lot of new hardware and stuff, so getting everything to work together. I'm sure it's not an easy task, but it seems like it's going to have support and be out there. So in the coming months, I should have an alien machine. Um, I said I'd be lucky if I order it because I ordered in December of last year. If I got it by next December, um, I think I might actually get it before that, but if I don't, no big deal. It's out there and I'm excited that it will be coming. That game is one of the more fun games that I've had over the last several years. Really, really enjoyed the rule set on it. That game and how much fun I had playing on that rule set is largely what steered me towards getting Hot Wheels, because I know there's some of the same people involved with the coding process on that machine, Joel Schober, and I really have enjoyed both of them. So he seems to design a rule set that really appeals to me, and I appreciate that. Looking forward to playing that some more.
    51:39
    Other rumors that have been out there, like I said, were Godzilla and Back to the Future for Stern. I do believe those are both future titles that are probably going to make their way through Stern's assembly line in this coming year. Hopefully the rumors are true that it is Toho Godzilla and that it has Keith Elwin on his line and we all know that I'm an Elwin fanboy and I will love those games. So I would expect that to happen and you'd most likely want one.
    52:04
    What else do we have there? Oh, Pin Clash. Carl D'Angelo, the hero of competitive pinball for 2020 and so far in 2021. has been running pin clash he did it on jurassic park last year and now this current year is on avengers the qualifying mode for this one has been the battle royal challenge instead of going on time or score like we did for the jurassic park one we are now going on flip counts i have uh i made one day of uh qualifying attempts i spent roughly 20 minutes qualifying i played four games I think it was, and on my fourth game, I qualified with 22 flips, which at the current time was second place. I have since dropped down to 10th place, but the top 24 qualified for the finals, which are June 12th, so six weeks away. The reason being, Carl puts together an amazing video package of interviews with the participants, video tutorials on the game and how to complete all the challenges that we'll be doing in a face-to-face, stream-to-stream head battle. and on the website if you go to pinclashtourney.com it has the current standings it has what the tier 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 challenges will be the points you are awarded for completing them in a certain amount of time for the head-to-head battle that takes place at the end of this tournament so right now I would say I am certainly safely qualified with 10th place I don't think I'm going to set up my stream and try to qualify again because it's a stressful way to do it. And I got really lucky really quickly when I did try the first time and I don't really want to go through that process again. I do need to play Avengers some more so I can study these actual challenges because I'm still not super familiar with that game. I will say the 1.0 and 1.01 code updates on that game really made it feel complete to me and fun. I would still rank Avengers at the bottom of the Elwynn machines. I think that Jurassic Park is my favorite. I think that Iron Maiden shoots the best. And I think that Avengers is just a little too complex, where it takes away some of the fun aspect for me. But I really like the shots on the game. It has a great flow to it. You can get into really heavy combo streaks. A lot of fun. So, anyway, pin clash is going on. I am currently qualified. The finals are June 12th at 3 p.m. Eastern, which I think is a Saturday. I gotta see if I can even play in the finals. If I do qualify, I might have to drop out. We'll see here how that would work. Right now the cutoff line is 34 flips. It's been really, really impressive to see the cut line moving up and up as people have continued to attempt to qualify for this. If you haven't played Battle Royale yet on Avengers, give it a shot. It keeps track of your time, your flips, and your score, which is all really kind of a neat combination and it's another fun way to play some pinball which I'm always looking for a new and fun way to play some pinball.
    55:08
    I think that's about all I got for you right now. I can't really think of anything else. I'll try to record once we get this announcement from Stern on whatever it is that is coming. and oh wow just reading a message I got it's definitely a Mandalorian that's coming next it looks like so it's definitely going to be out there and yeah we'll expect to see that here in the near future but as always guys go out, play pinball, have fun thank you for tuning in I hope everyone is staying safe. I hope 2021 is going a little better for everyone than 2020 did. I've got one month of school left from today, and I'm very ready for summer vacation.
    56:02
    Hoping to do some restorations over the summer and enjoy some time off, as this has been an incredibly stressful school year for me.
    56:10
    Been busy at the bar working like always, and then keeping up with my games on location as well. So thanks for listening, guys. I missed everyone. Happy to be back.
    56:22
    Bug Taylor a little bit. I'd love to record with him again. I miss Taylor. He's doing well as far as I know. We still communicate on a fairly regular basis. But if anyone could talk him into coming back for an episode guest spot here or there, that'd be great. But I will be back whenever it's convenient. I feel like it. No promises on anything regular, but I'm looking forward to hopefully talking about The Mandalorian in the near future and any other new titles that are sort of popping up. And if you guys have anything specific you want me to cover, just let me know. Happy to do so. At least share whatever it is, my opinion on it. Even if it may not be the most popular at the time, I'm still happy to share it, although it's just my opinion and it's basically useless. Anyway, have a good one, guys. We'll be back. Talk to you later. Bye.