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The Pinball Show Ep 143 BONUS: Award Show Meltdown: A Deeper Look Into The Death Of Pinball Award Shows

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·34m 29s·analyzed·Dec 19, 2023
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TL;DR

Pinball award shows imploded due to harassment; hosts cancel 2023 awards citing workload and industry toxicity.

Summary

A deep-dive discussion on the collapse of pinball award shows, specifically the Twippies, triggered by harassment and toxicity around a specific content creator (Chris Cooler). The hosts (Zach and Dennis) explain the decision-making behind canceling the Pinball Awards for 2023, cite workload and motivation issues, and reflect on how the industry needs a break from award shows while hint at potential future restructuring.

Key Claims

  • Chris Cooler engaged in documented harassment, threats, and aggressive behavior spanning multiple years, not just recent weeks.

    high confidence · Zach explicitly stated he has documentation and characterized the behavior as 'legitimately evil' and ongoing harassment.

  • The Twippies committee decision to remove media award categories was made collectively, not by a single person, despite narrative attempts to scapegoat Colin.

    high confidence · Dennis stated 'We talked about it being multiple people within this thing' and emphasized the committee-level nature of the decision.

  • The Pinball Awards (separate from Twippies) are canceled for 2023 due to workload constraints, not in protest of the Twippies collapse.

    high confidence · Dennis explained the timeline: planned announcement was pulled due to Twippies news, but they decided to stick with original decision based on workload.

  • Multiple conventions have contacted the hosts in recent weeks about hosting a redesigned award show.

    medium confidence · Zach mentioned 'multiple conventions that have contacted us' and referenced recent conversations (within the last week) about bringing award shows to different venues.

  • The harassment campaign involved brigading a Pinside forum thread to 600+ posts to pressure the committee into reversing decisions.

    high confidence · Dennis described the strategy: 'if we just push this pin side thread up to 600 plus posts... the committee is going to be cowed.'

  • People's Choice voting model for awards is too easily manipulated and not effective for legitimate recognition.

    high confidence · Dennis stated 'It's too easily manipulated. While I agree with the... people's choice model... it may be fun to vote in, it's not a good model to do real recognition.'

  • The narrative blaming Colin (of This Week in Pinball) was predetermined by harassers, regardless of facts.

    high confidence · Dennis: 'The narrative was written. The target was set... they're like, no, we've already picked our victim.'

Notable Quotes

  • “What did you think was going to happen? ...the committee is going to be cowed...Could you imagine? Bullying works... I would burn it all to the ground first.”

    Dennis@ 5:29 — Core thesis: harassment campaigns cannot succeed because capitulation sets dangerous precedent.

  • “This is not an opinion-based thing. These are documented events...year after year after year. preventing this person from being awarded...thank god somebody finally said enough is enough.”

    Zach@ 16:11 — Direct justification for removing Chris Cooler from award eligibility; frames decision as harm prevention.

  • “We are all responsible for allowing this to continue...Manufacturers have the power...They can nip this in the bud really, really quick.”

    Zach@ 18:12 — Implicates manufacturers in enabling harassment culture; calls for industry accountability beyond community.

  • “It's not a censorship issue...It's their entity. They can do whatever the hell they want. You're not censoring. People can still listen to whoever they want to.”

    Dennis@ 9:31 — Directly refutes political narrative framing the Twippies' decision as censorship.

  • “The media did this whole, we ignore him, we ignore him...The shit doesn't work. And I'm with some of the crowd that now says, we had this coming.”

    Zach@ 17:58 — Argues past non-engagement strategy failed; acknowledges industry complicity in enabling harassment.

  • “If they don't care, that's cool. I don't want to make them care, but I don't want to do the work. I'm tired.”

    Dennis@ 25:31 — Reveals emotional/motivational burnout as key factor in canceling Pinball Awards, beyond logistical constraints.

  • “My heart will always still be kind of with Twippy's because I helped create that thing. But then that thing's faltering and my baby's hurting over there.”

Entities

Chris CoolerpersonZach SharpepersonDennispersonColinpersonWillpersonThis Week in PinballorganizationThe Twippiesevent

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Multi-year documented harassment campaign against Chris Cooler by a coordinated group, involving brigading, threats, and aggressive behavior that prompted award show governance changes.

    high · Zach: 'These are documented events...year after year after year.' Dennis described brigade strategy and harassment as 'legit harassment and aggression.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Shift from enthusiasm to fatigue and malaise in pinball award show community; hosts cite burnout, decreased industry engagement with awards, and questioning whether awards are worth the effort.

    high · Dennis: 'I'm tired... I don't want to do the work.' Zach: 'my motivation sometimes wax and when they change based on... with this twippy stuff.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Major governance crisis in pinball award show ecosystem; both Twippies and Pinball Awards facing structural dysfunction, narrative manipulation, and committee strain.

    high · Dennis: 'the whole damn thing was an entire mess.' Both shows made reactive decisions; Twippies removed then re-added categories; Pinball Awards canceled.

  • ?

    content_signal: This Week in Pinball/Twippies drama driving significant podcast content; hosts cite extensive coverage on other podcasts (Collective Gamers, Slam Tilt) and recommend Ron Hallett's measured analysis.

    high · Dennis recommended Collective Gamers podcast and Slam Tilt episodes for deeper analysis; praised Ron Hallett for research-driven approach.

  • ?

    event_signal: Twippies ceremony logistics changed; no longer confirmed at Texas Pinball Festival; hosts uncertain if decision was TPF or Twippies-driven; community assumed link between shows.

Topics

Twippies Award Show CollapseprimaryHarassment and Community Toxicity in PinballprimaryPinball Awards Cancellation for 2023primaryAward Show Model Design (People's Choice vs Expert Judge)secondaryNarratives and Misinformation in Pinball CommunitysecondaryManufacturer Responsibility in Community StandardssecondaryFuture Award Show RestructuringsecondaryMedia and Content Creator Recognitionmentioned

Sentiment

negative(-0.72)— Hosts express frustration, anger, and resignation about harassment, institutional collapse, and workload burnout. However, there are moments of principled stance-taking and cautious optimism about future restructuring. Dennis is more analytical; Zach is more emotionally invested and exasperated.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.103

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material.
0:30
All right, Dennis, people want to know what the fuck happened to the Twippies. Open up hardcore. Oh, I so don't want to keep talking about this because, as you know, Tony and I covered this extensively on a Collective Gamers podcast. Which I would recommend people listening to. That was more about the toxicity, though, in pinball, really, than it was per se. I did give some background about the drama that kind of triggered when I understood this to be the trigger. because there's been some issues brewing for a little while involving Kineticist and Colin and Chris with Kineta for a while,
1:08
but I didn't expect it to manifest in this particular way, and then, of course, it turned into a thing. We were talking about it in the regular show, but I feel like Colin and Will and the rest of the Twippy Committee just had enough of it, not only of the last week or month of or a couple months of fucking harassment legit harassment and aggression uh whether people want to believe that or not uh dennis that they they pulled the whole big lebowski this is what happens larry this is what happens when you
1:41
fuck the twippies in the end and they he just that and they just bashed the bat all over uh all over Canada's desire and hopes for another plastic trophy. Just lit it on fire. Yeah, I saw some. I think I saw. I don't know because so many people have shared so many links on things on this and stuff. And here's the thing that I think maybe some people have lost sight of. And I'm not going to go into my toxicity and be nice sort of rant.

The Twippies initially discontinued all media award categories, then added back a 'content creator' category after backlash.

high confidence · Dennis described the sequence: 'no media awards. Then there's all this huge backlash... they added back in a content creator award.'

Zach@ 28:04 — Personal investment in both award shows; emotional complexity about the collapse.

  • “There are some great ideas going forward as to what an award show...should be...we have been approached by multiple conventions...to bring an award show there.”

    Zach@ 28:21 — Hints at future award show restructuring and potential venue migration.

    • Pinball Awards
    event
    Davidperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Jackperson
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Pinsideorganization
    Jeffperson
    Kineticistperson

    medium · Dennis: 'Twippies weren't even going to be held at TPF... Maybe it wasn't necessarily entirely a Twippies thing... narrative was that they were linked.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Philosophical shift away from People's Choice voting model toward expert judge selection; hosts argue People's Choice is too easily manipulated.

    high · Dennis: 'I don't agree with the people's choice model... it may be fun to vote in, it's not a good model to do real recognition because it's too easily manipulated.'

  • ?

    announcement: Pinball Awards officially canceled for 2023 due to workload, motivation, and industry climate; potential future restructuring via convention partnerships.

    high · Dennis: 'we pushed back out the announcement... I'm still just really busy... we can stick with our original decision.' Zach: 'multiple conventions that have contacted us.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Multiple conventions reportedly in discussions with hosts about hosting redesigned award show; described as recent (within last week) and ongoing; potential blockbuster restructuring.

    medium · Zach: 'hours within hours of deciding things... and it's interesting to see what has transpired... we have been approached by multiple conventions... talking with shows on how I can bring an award show there.'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Narrative that Twippies decision was 'censorship' disputed; hosts clarify it is entity's right to set governance rules, not censorship.

    high · Dennis: 'It's not a censorship issue... It's their entity. They can do whatever the hell they want. You're not censoring.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Awards unsustainable due to committee workload (Zach new job, David expanding firm), minimal manufacturer/player engagement (50% didn't acknowledge awards), and no financial incentive.

    high · Dennis: 'Half plus of the manufacturers don't even share on social media... 50% of people didn't even tell us they got the awards in the mail.' Zach: 'we've sponsored the trophies every year... they're not insignificant in price.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Harassers created predetermined narrative scapegoating Colin despite multi-person committee decision; fabricated 'censorship' framing; ignored facts in favor of entertainment.

    high · Dennis: 'The narrative was written...they're like, no, we've already picked our victim... there's tons of people that purposefully overlook stuff too, for their own selfish needs of entertainment.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zach started new off-site job in September; David taking on significant new clients at investment firm; both factors reduce capacity for volunteer award show work.

    high · Dennis: 'I started a new job back in September and I don't work from home anymore... David is in the process of taking over a lot more at his investment firm... So he's just really busy.'

    • 2:12
    I already did that, so I'm not going to do it again. I tried to be fair about it, but, I mean, there's a wrong side here. And I think I was pretty clear in terms of that. It's the side that chooses to harass and you can gussy it up however much I would. I would argue the majority may disagree based on lack of knowledge. And I understand. That's what I have to keep reminding myself. I get it when you're when you're constantly getting gas lit and stuff gets deleted all the time. You're not going to know. And it's not right for me to think that just because I know you'll know because I get shared copies of all this stuff all the time.
    2:44
    And not just regarding that. I mean, just this stuff just gets passed around. There's tons of people that purposefully overlook stuff, too, for their own selfish needs of entertainment. And I know some are, and that's what tilts me. Some of these people, listen, you know who you are. I mean, just at least own it. At least own it. So anyway, my thing here was, I guess the rhetorical question I would ask to people is, what did you think was going to happen? Oh, yeah. I think some people thought, this is my take, that if they were just loud enough, called out Colin enough in particular, which even was happening after Will said, you know, the Twippies and Twip are separate.
    3:25
    And there were some people like, yeah, whatever. The narrative was written. The narrative was written that it was all Colin's fault. The target was set. You even have someone else saying, this is under my control. And they're like, no, no, we've already picked our victim. Zach, many shit. It's like, no, we know TPN is all – it's like, no, we're actually giving you that. We're showing you that it's not – no, sorry. This is what we're choosing. I guess I shouldn't be shocked at people who just want to be dismissive of facts to fit their own –
    3:57
    but it fascinates me when you even have someone say, no, this was my decision. They're like, no, it wasn't. No, that's not yours. Sorry, Will. You don't have any control, Will. Sorry, committee. Sorry, yeah, committee. Yeah, they never blame committees. It's always one person. Because it's a moto Steve Bowne. No, we like that. Those are treasures, Josh Sharpe. But here's where I think people, like, they weren't mentally making the leap for whatever reason. And it was, I think they thought, if we just push this pin side thread up to 600 plus posts, that what's going to happen is the committee is going to be cowed.
    4:37
    They're going to go, oh, gosh, look at this rage. It's 15 people repeating the same message over and over. Let's completely reverse course and make things exactly back to the way they were. I'm not saying that was impossible, but it didn't make any logical sense. Could you imagine? Just let's pretend it happened, Zach. You and I. Let's pretend. Closer. Doing wage work. Go back. And imagine that that's what would happen. Could you imagine the message that would be?
    5:08
    Bullying works. The crowing that you would hear over, look, guys, we in the Army have achieved our victory. We harass people enough and we get everything we want. If you were the victim of that level of a campaign against you, whoever would allow that person to win? That would be terrifying. I would burn it all to the ground first. And piss on it, yeah. Yes, and that's how I think most people would be. So what surprised me was they ended up adding a new content creator category,
    5:44
    defined it in such a way that the person that was responsible for complaining and a bunch of other individuals as well. Yeah, the Games Awards did it. These people aren't going to be able to win anymore as well. So basically they tried to alleviate the complaint that this isn't fair to a bunch of content creators that were using this as a measuring stick to know that they were being successful but they still achieved the goal that they wanted which was to kind of stop this being dramatic or so they thought because it wasn't late it didn't matter because that was
    6:18
    never the real narrative yeah the only the only solution to the narrative from the harassing standpoint was complete capitulation this isn't total war it was never going to happen because Because the problem that I think a lot of individuals forget is you as individuals, you as voters or you as consumers who watch the Twippies, you don't have any power in it. This is not your award. Perceived people's choice. You didn't create it. You don't have any control over it. And the notion that you can dictate terms from a position of weakness does not work.
    6:54
    Logically, it does not work. And that is why you saw the outcome that you did. I'll give people a little bit of behind-the-scenes stuff without naming names. I was talking to one of the committee members during all this big fucking mess. And this particular committee member was kind of torn in between what to do and their thoughts on all of this. And they seen it as like you're kind of taking away the people's voice. If they want to do this, if they want somebody included, that's a bad person. Then they want them included.
    7:25
    We should let them. And I reminded that person. I said, well, wait a minute. Like the This Week in Pinball, the Twippies, it's in its own entity. Just because the people's voice is who you select as a winner of an award, it's still the Twippies giving away that award. It's still the Twippies that's coordinating and producing the whole show. It's still the Twippies that like, okay, so it's getting sponsorship dollars. So you're going to mean to tell me if you want to blanket statement the whole, well, it's the people's vote. It's the people's voice. Okay, well, are the people, are they receiving sponsorship dollars?
    7:58
    No, no, no, no, no, they're not. Are the people, are they paying for the production cost of all this and the time to edit and the committee and vote? No, no, no, no, no. So I think people get it twisted that it's the people's voice. Well, that's damn fine. But at the end of the day, it's still a committee that is presenting the award to somebody. So it's not really cutting off the public's opinion to vote. No, it's still the Twippy Awards. Now quickly I will say to the listener the perception of what happened with the Twippy Awards is they decided that they just got rid of all the media categories overnight and said hey we not going to do it anymore We not going to do any of the media stuff And it was received with I admit a much more significant and bold reaction from the majority than I had anticipated
    8:50
    It taught me a lot of things. I'll say that. But much more significant than I had anticipated. And the narrative being spun around it, too, was pretty genius. disgusting sure but genius nonetheless like it became a censorship issue guys to do some homework that's that's it just go look to see what censorship issues are it wasn't that sadly it just wasn't that who's going to argue against censorship like what a fucking political narrative bullshit uh spin there like oh they're against censorship no this isn't a censorship issue
    9:28
    It just isn't. It's their entity. They can do whatever the hell they want. You're not censoring. People can still listen to whoever they want to. It's not that at all. But when you're trying to make a push, politically, it works so well to do such. To think it was controlled by one person, again, a good narrative to be able to have one scapegoat and blame so that you can supplant and get rid of one person so that the other people can scapegoat on that one person.
    9:58
    They can turn it into whatever they want. Again, I see the brilliance of trying to do that, even if it's evil, but it just wasn't the case. We talked about it being multiple people within this thing. So they got – some of these media creators were just downright pissed, and I could see why they were upset because they were no longer included as possible designated award winners. or even in drop-down, I understand all of that. Now, we talked in this last time about, like, I'd just get rid of all the media.
    10:30
    Now, I don't know if we were saying, like, you should just overnight just dump them all, because I don't think that was necessarily the best idea. Well, and people are going to disagree, and that's why I've always tried to be really transparent about, like, my thoughts. We were saying something. Well, I think most people know, like, I don't agree with the people's choice model. Sure. And there are good logical reasons, totally unrelated to pinball, about why it may be fun to vote in, it may be fun to talk about.
    11:04
    It's not a good model to do real recognition because it's too easily manipulated. While I agree with the, you know, and as we talked about, about, you know, maybe these awards shouldn't exist anymore. Ideally, that all happens well before voting season, ideally. And so there were decisions that ended up being made and may have very well been made in a knee-jerk reaction. And because they were knee-jerking, everything started pivoting, and people kind of get whiplash, and then things start changing.
    11:34
    And then that becomes part of the narrative as well. And so that's where we kind of saw this whole, all right, let's see. So the Canadian show is not in the database anymore, and then the database is all gone. But technically that was all separate from the Twippies. Yes. But the narrative was that they were linked. Absolutely. So people factor it in. Then the decision was, okay, no media awards. Then there's all this huge backlash and where I would not have done what the committee did and then added back in a content creator award because now you've changed it again.
    12:06
    And it's just kind of like maybe you add that back in next year. But again, they're trying to – I think what they were trying to – because I'm not on the committee, I don't know. But I think what they were trying to do is look at all that backlash. I think they were reading all of those complaints and trying to sort out those that were actually like legitimate, like content creators are actually upset about this. Viewers are actually upset about this. And they do deserve recognition. Right. And segregate that from like the content that they thought was just them being brigaded.
    12:37
    So, yes. And it's tough to sort through that. It's tough to do it right before voting, and it disrupts everything. And so would I have made the decision if it was only one person's decision to take away all the media stuff? Maybe not. But I don't know. I've not been in that position. Well, frankly, yes, we have. But it's different. It's different. Sure, sure. I mean, one of the things we – and I saw commenters say this. Like, if it's one person's issue, why don't you guys just do an ethics clause? Well, obviously, that's what we did with the pinball awards to avoid those issues.
    13:11
    But I had heard from a member of the committee and there were like there were logistical issues in terms of how they felt they would have to do an ethics clause that really concerned at least that one individual. So they had reasons for not going that route. But it would have been my route. I'll give Ron Hallett from Slam Tilt podcast. in addition to the whole EGP rundown, which he referenced as being kind of a gold standard in all of this. Ron did a phenomenal job, and that's why you heard on the regular show me training him up, did a phenomenal job explaining the ins and outs
    13:42
    because that is somebody who has a very, very good head on his shoulders that before reacting with an emotional outburst, a tantrum, if you will, and I'm not just talking about one podcast. I'm talking about a lot of people. with before doing that he equipped himself with actually what was going on and had some really insightful things to say so go listen to the last slam tilt uh if you're interested in any of this but yeah that i i wouldn't have done i wouldn't have brought back that that media creator category i that's a mess of things because then then it's not really it was a mess i i didn't like that at
    14:17
    all and if i was in the committee on the pinball awards or the twibbets i would have been fighting against that and everybody would have been like, God, it's actually a Trapania. So that was a mess too. But ultimately, then it turns out that the Twippies weren't even going to be held at TPF. Now the public not knowing, kind of assuming maybe that's a, maybe that's a Twippies thing. What I will say is maybe it wasn't, right? Maybe it wasn't necessarily entirely a Twippies thing. So that was an entire mess. The whole damn thing was an entire mess.
    14:48
    And for all of you, for all of you that want to say, and some of you don't, but the ones that want to say this is just something to prevent Chris Cooler from Canadian Spinball Podcast from winning again. This is why they're doing this. I'm talking to everybody. This is Zach talking to you. See, I didn't do too bad there, did I, Dennis? No, you did. Sorry. This is Zach. if you believe that to be true you're fucking laughable and you are so off base it's hilarious
    15:23
    no one gives a shit if somebody wins multiple times you're creating awards to celebrate whoever you think should win or whoever the public they should play nobody gives a shit yeah repeat winning was honestly a problem uh for for him and and for jack at dead flip you know maybe before they already had what six of them you'd have done something it doesn't really make sense not it The problem is what it is is when somebody is fucking horrible to people, who abuses people, who is aggressive, who threatens, who harasses people.
    15:57
    This is not an opinion-based thing. These are documented events that have not only happened this last week, this last freaking month, this last year. Hell, I've got documentation on this. This happens year after year after year after year. this is behavior that has gone on for so long that preventing this person from being awarded and being put on a stage and reinforcing that type of behavior thank god somebody finally said
    16:28
    enough is enough even if it implodes the entire structure of what we're trying to do because of stupid, incorrect narratives. Thank God somebody finally did that because it goes to show you that at the end of all of this, decency, humanity, integrity are more important than some fucking award. Even if it means making your establishment look bad because one person's bitching about censorship and stuff like that. Many people like this individual.
    16:59
    Very entertaining, charismatic to an nth degree, good at what they do. But the problem is they're good. The devil's good at what he does too. And I not trying to make a direct comparison here but some of the stuff that Chris Coolers does is fucking legitimately evil Anybody that wants to shit on that I fine with Getting rid of somebody bad that hurting other people but they entertaining me at this point I just don care anymore about your entertainment. And you can continue to pay and support. That's
    17:29
    fine. That's completely fine with me. Just don't expect me to respect you. That's it. Is that too much to ask, Dennis? I'm just, I'm open to say I'm glad that somebody is finally saying, no, then we won't have it. Then we won't. Do what you want. But I'm not rewarding that type of behavior anymore. And I think, I know the media did this whole, we ignore him, we ignore him. That was, okay, good strategy, good experiment. The shit doesn't work. And I'm with some of the crowd that now says, we had this coming.
    18:04
    We allowed this type of behavior. And I'm talking to you manufacturers as well. This is not just a hobby thing. This is a manufacturer thing. Because they have the power in a lot of these situations. They can nip this in the bud really, really quick. Now, I'm not telling them they have to. I'm just saying this isn't just a nerdy hobbyist kind of community thing. No, no, no, no, no. We are all responsible for allowing this to continue and not doing anything about it,
    18:34
    for them to mobilize what he calls, quote, an army. Well, I've not seen violence before. I read that in some bullshit article. I've not seen violence before. Are you joking me? Okay, so he's harassing people and he's threatening people. Well, I've not seen any consequences. Am I in fucking Twilight Zone? What's going on here? No, no, I think you may be missing the point here. It takes one person and this type of rhetoric is harmful.
    19:05
    We can't have it. And I'm not saying the guy could turn a corner as he says he does every week, forgiving and apologizing and stuff like that. But either you do it or you don't. And the historical evidence we have is that you don't. So it's hard for us to to bury a hatchet without feeling like the fucking hatchet you're bearing is bearing in our goddamn backs. so moving forward that's why we don't talk about it or anything but it's relevant here and that if there's a bad person that's hurting people in a hobby that you love an industry love
    19:37
    you got to figure a way to stop that harm all right sorry my rant no no i already got my my i got to do all that a week ago so i won't regurgitate so the pinball awards oh wow okay what what what convenient timing if i want to blame if i want to blame the twippies for anything It would be, thanks, because this screwed up our timeline so fast. So just real quick for folks. So, you know, we've been doing that pinball awards, originally called the Pinball Industry Awards, for three years now.
    20:11
    And we had been having conversations back in November about do we do it again? And the thing is, so we have a committee. And the committee is often like we've had different people on our committee every year because it's a volunteer thing that people want to help out with the governance side of it. You know, checking, making sure that the way that model works has a lot of review that we have to do to ensure no dupe votes and things like that. So anyway, but there are three people. I think this is fair to say there are three people who do almost all of the work leading up to it, not counting the actual event where there are tons of volunteers.
    20:49
    A lot of people do work. And I thank all of them very, very much. But behind the scenes, most of the ceremonial planning work falls on Zach and David Dennis from Silver Ball Chronicles and myself do most of the work in terms of the ballots, the judge recruitment and all the rest. So it's three people that are doing almost all of the work leading up to the ceremony where we get a lot more participation, but still a small crew. Yeah. Well, I mean, we just logistically we were we are having like you've got your your business has grown quite a bit from when you first started doing the pinball awards, you know, flipping out pinball.
    21:27
    David is in the process. I don't think I'm revealing too much. He's in the process of taking over a lot more at his his investment firm. So he's taking on like a lot of clients. So he's just really busy. And I started a new job back in September and I don't work from home anymore. so all of those things were like okay this is going to be a lot harder for us to do than it had been should we pull the plug for a year at least a year and just say you know what no no 2023 bearing in mind that there were a ton of games in 2023 and it would have been a very good
    22:00
    year to do an award ceremony so you know we started on the conversation and with the existing governance committee people and those that weighed in were like yeah i mean there were a couple that We're kind of like, no, I'd really like to do it, but I understand not. So we planned it. David actually put out the announcement, and then we pulled the announcement back because more information was dropping about the Twinkie thing. We're like, oh, no, wait. Then we're like, this isn't related to that. We're not doing it in protest. We're not doing it, you know, I mean, we're a different show.
    22:32
    And I've argued since we formed up doing these awards that in my headspace, it's not a competition. Both these awards formats can exist together. And I wanted to be involved in this style of format because I don't care for the People's Choice format. I don't think it's a legitimate format to recognize the best or the favorite of anything. So given that, it's just kind of like, okay, well, so we held off a little bit. We started hearing the stuff about the whole thing going on with Texas and all of that.
    23:02
    There was some stuff, yeah. And there was some stuff going on. And we did end up, Zach and I started having a conversation. Well, should we do it? All right, the Twippies are still going to do something, so there should still be an award. So do we need to? It's like, do we do an award ceremony if there was a fear that there wasn't going to be anything? Yeah. But Will put out his statement, and it was like, they're still doing the Twippies. And we were going to have a conversation with the whole governance committee. And it's like Zach's like, you know what?
    23:32
    I'm still just really busy to possibly try and put on and host the ceremony. And I'm like, you know what? I didn't get any less busy. We can stick with our original decision. And we pushed back out the announcement that David had originally issued on our behalf. So that's why that it just it's a it's an unfortunate coincidence. And I've seen some people lament it, which and I appreciate those of you that really enjoyed voting or listening or participating in it. And I don't mean this as a, I'm not calling anyone out in the sense like I'm not, I'm
    24:03
    not upset about this. I just want to, I just want to stress to you about the workload. And this kind of got, I think, ties to some of our conversation we had about Pinberg and the replay foundation and the things that happened with that. Every comment, request, desire, lament that we're not doing the TPAs in 2023, not a single individual said that they were willing to actually help put them on. but yeah yeah and i don't and i do not blame you i do not blame you i agree and but that's my point
    24:33
    is this is a lot of work there's basically it is there and there's basically no payoff you've sponsored the trophies every year that we've done payoff they're not insignificant in price and you know i don't mean to be whiny again uh because i did what i did because i thought it would be fun and i'm glad that we did them oh yeah and and we may and we may do them in the future but we part of the desire to do you know have a break is it's kind of you know the big rush is doing the event and like how you know we were at the pin barn and we did all the event and
    25:05
    it was a i've had a lot of fun i thought jason from pinball party and george fisher putting on the live stream we're switching the scenes and joel and amanda yeah yeah no they're up there giving away the awards the chats really act it was a lot of fun stuff it was yes but then you know The trophies go out. Half plus of the manufacturers don't even share on social media that they won the thing. I don't think anybody does. I think just pinball pros. So we don't know if they even like it. I'm like, if they don't care, that's cool. I don't want to make them care, but I don't want to do the work.
    25:37
    I don't want to do the work. I'm tired. I don't want to do the work. 50% of people didn't even tell us they got the awards in the mail. Oh, okay. Well I know there were some delays and stuff but I just kind of like you know what I mean if because my main thing had always been because as my emphasis wasn on the content creators was on the people making the games sure but i mean if they don care like they don care about the award cool let me know so i can so i cannot care to consume dozens of hours of my time in december in january doing all of this work
    26:09
    or getting because inevitably you have something like that you're going to get a spattering of like people's hate it just it always happens yeah and after the first year we the blowback was minimal that wasn't really a big issue for me uh after the first year was kind of right because everyone's like you're trying to kill the twippy i'm like uh no we're not we're not but i i mean you know people make up their own narratives i still remember when jeff formed the twippies and people because he did the first year vote on penside when you were working with him on all that stuff and but i just remember people hating on him because he was making an
    26:41
    award sure and it was just like um dude but anyway after the whole twippy's announcement you know started seeing all these posts like we just want zach to come to texas and do a ceremony and save it like save us like save you from what yourselves yeah and i can say that back on the twippy topic i mean you guys this is exactly this is everything you cultivated what's happening now is is because y'all did what you did and live with your decision and you said you were talking about workloads and stuff like that. And I can say personally, for me, a lot of it was that.
    27:14
    The majority of it was that. It's just like, oh my God, it's so much work and time and energy and money. But then there is a portion that I will honestly say that was, it's like a motivation too. Like, do I really have the passion this year for something like this? is our love and support of this industry being heard? Is it being welcomed in? Um, and my creative mind is always still,
    27:44
    uh, I just, I want a show with a vision that, uh, encapsulates so much of everything. And sometimes that may differ from what other people would like a show to be. So, uh, my motivation sometimes wax and when they change based on, and then with this twippy stuff, But it kind of, honestly, kind of changed a little bit because my heart will always still be kind of with some of the portion of my heart be with Twippy's because I helped create that thing. But then that thing's faltering and my baby's hurting over there.
    28:15
    But this other baby over here is working hard, but it's maybe not getting the love that it does. And, like, what I will say is that there are some great ideas going forward as to what an award show not only can be, what it should be. And I don't think I'm breaking the trust of anyone saying that we as a group, myself as an individual, we have been approached by, I'm not going to say what show or shows, because there's been multiple conventions that have contacted us.
    28:47
    Even as recent as last week, talking with shows on how I can bring an award show there and really make it what everybody wants it to be. And I still hold out. And there's some stuff behind the scenes, listener, that boy, oh boy, it was like a blockbuster movie. hours within hours of deciding things and um and it's interesting to see what has transpired since
    29:23
    then um with the the surface level news that um of everything but just the inner workings behind the scenes and how um i myself was involved in some of trying to decide uh is there a way to give people what they want in the industry, what they deserve. There's hours we have to make decisions. Here's this, here's this. And ultimately, I stand behind what we have this year, which is, frankly, not much of anything from anyone.
    29:56
    Because jumping into that right now, that pool, I don't want to drown. I don't want the media to drown. But out of that took some exciting things potentially for next year and an award show that would encompass everything that everyone wants. And, of course, people would bitch because people do. But encapsulating everything and bringing back the glory of what we knew in the past and what we love in the past, still celebrating.
    30:27
    And maybe that happens next year. But until then, I think this industry needs a break from an award show for 2023. I really do. Well, I mean, they're still going to have the Twippies allocated. So let's be honest. I mean, it's not the Twippies. It is. Well, I mean, they've done more shows than not non-live. Yep. Right. Online.
    30:57
    I'm not clear if they're just posting the results so that is a pretty big change up I understand I've tried to speak with some passion here for the entertainment of Patreon folks I'm not angry about what's going on with the pinball awards we were talking this well before the database stuff might have been getting talked about a bit whined about a bit, but it wasn't about the twippies. And in that regard, I mean, I'm not
    31:30
    expecting people to volunteer. So I'm just, I want to kind of maybe for those that care, just sort of make it clear, like there's really no upside other than doing it because you enjoy the hobby. Because normally I can look past a lot of stuff that can be frustrating if I'm getting paid, but we don't make money doing the awards. They cost a lot of money to you and they cost a lot of time to everyone who's volunteering and it just logistically uh the the one thing that
    32:01
    gave us pause is with all the changes to the twippies it was kind of a okay does the community it's like there are members of the community that maybe didn't give us as much credence who were like we we hope that like i don't know they were like turning to us to give them the awards that they wanted to see or something i don't know but i really don't want to you know we it's kind of Like, we took a pause to think, okay, well, should, like, does that change things for us? It doesn't solve the time thing. And as you noted, Zach, I'm really not comfortable stepping into this drama pit.
    32:35
    Because, honestly, I envision, not that I think, I mean, who knows the way the narratives go, that we get linked into the Twippies specifically. But rather, does this faction of upset, you know, this mob start trying to turn the Pinball Awards into the Twippies or something? And it's like, I'm not cool with that. And I don't want it to be the discussion point. I don't want it to be the, oh, this award show came and it's like, what's happened to the Twippies is tragic. That I didn't agree with the voting model is a logistical disagreement.
    33:10
    I didn't have anything against the Twippies. It was always meant to be fun. And I tried to have fun with it as long as I could just as a spectator. I've already experienced us being mocked by Chris Cooler making fun of us for saying we don't have ample time to put in. Like, oh, you don't have time. Like, that's a bunch of shit. He made fun. That's not very nice. We don't – I just – Wait, didn't he make fun when we formed the award originally? Yes, made shit on the award. I mean, I guess flip-flop's going to flop, but –
    33:43
    It's just I don't need this. I don't need that kind of shit anymore. I just don't need it this year. We'll focus on the things, or I personally will focus on the things that bring me joy and light up my life. And that's it. Pinball is one of them. I'm going to continue doing that. And I focused on the negative here just to get myself out. You've got to sit down and give some explanation at some point in time when it's appropriate, and I think it is today. And then hopefully I will go back to focusing on the stuff that you all enjoy and love as well.
    34:14
    and be along for the ride in 2024 at the pinball show. Yeah. Okay, that's the end, folks. Oh, it's the part where they turn the tape over? Yeah. Push stop. There's no side B. No side B.