What's that sound? It's 4 Amusement Only, the EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast. Welcome back to 4 Amusement Only. This is Nick Baldrige. Tonight I have a special guest, Chad Dubowski, who is a fellow EM collector that I met at the York Show. How are you doing, Chad? Excellent, Nick. How are you doing today? What are you doing today? Doing very well. So Chad, I wanted to ask you a couple questions first and then we'll proceed into the EM world. But first of all, how old are you? I am 38. 38. And what got you into pinball? When did you start playing? Well I probably started playing, you know, as a teenager. We had one of the arcades by a local movie theater and that's where all the shady individuals hung out. My mom would always drop us off to go to the movies and say, you know, try to stay away from that arcade. I think she was polite enough to put the try in there because she knew we would go over and play a couple games. But it was cool because whenever you walked in the front, they had all the pinballs were the first thing on the right side of the arcade. And then as you got further in, it went from the pinballs to the arcade and then the pool tables, you know. But I never really got past the pinball machines. And I remember most of all was when they brought Funhaus in. So, obviously sometime after 1990, but I can't really say it was brand new. But man, that machine I dumped so many quarters in, Rudy just was so infuriating laughing at you. It just that's that's really the time I can remember really getting into pinball and enjoying it from when I was younger. Excellent. And did you continue to play in the arcade for some years or did you fall out of it and then come back to it later? Well, you know, it kind of went with me. So as you know, I went through college and things that became very sparse as to where I could find them. And I kind of went into video side for a while. And so, let's fast forward to when I met my wife, and she and I were dating. I went over to her house, and, you know, met her parents and everything. And her dad took me down to the basement to show me, you know, some of his toys and things. And he had two games. He had a Bally, I think it's Bally, yeah, heavy hitter, the pitching bat, the electromechanical, and he had a game plan sharpshooter. You know, and when I went down and I saw these, I was like, oh man, I forgot how much I enjoyed these, you know, and started playing them. He and I kind of bonded over the pinballs and really had a good time working on them because by trade I'm a mechanical engineer and the mechanical side of pinball just, it's really enjoyable to me. I'd like to see why things break, see if I can fix them in a better manner or just when you find something that's completely disassembled and in pieces, can you figure out how it goes back together and why it was built the way it was, things like that. But, so, yeah, I got to, you know, started getting into it again with my father-in-law. His name's Ed. I think you met him at the show, at the York show as well. But so, you know, through those conversations, I started to realize, you know, I could, I should get a pinball machine. So this was actually at the time when auctions were still rather popular. I was probably around 2000, 2001 timeframe and that's when super auctions was big and there was another auction one that I forget the name of it but the key there was that was when I really said well you know I should go check out one of these auctions and see what's there. So I went down to this auction all by myself because all my friends bailed on me at the last minute and I'm down there I didn't really know anybody or really know much about pinball. I like to play it and a pistol poker from Alvin G that game came up for for bid and I really liked the theme and the back glass animation of it only halfway worked but you know oh yeah I can fix that so we'll we'll go ahead and bid on it and sure enough I want it you know it was funny because I didn't know anything about him so I didn't really know how to take it apart and nobody at that auction it was a I'm a real Pirates fan boy. Hit that subscribe button and plus that subscribe to my team. I made all my money for my channel called Living себе sailing and a son of a gun cubes Al Haze sick and you I'm excited for y'all underwear already. You know, probably within a couple months and really it was because we went to the next auction. It was funny, we went to an auction and we actually took my wife with us this time and you know, Ed and they started the bidding and Ed and I were standing there and she knew, we had a very common number, it was something like one, two, three, you know, and my wife said she was going to go get a drink or something and she's like on the other side of the hall and you know, they're announcing Tim Tim Kitzrow, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, I'm going to go ahead and start unloading because everything seems right and then you pay the bidders fee and everything and all in all great times and I really miss those auctions because they were fun just as you started to get to into it it's much like all the pinball shows you know you see all the same people and everybody kind of knows what you're looking for you know what they're looking for and once um once you kind of get in with everybody then everybody kind of works together for the most part you know so that was always fun and then there was one other auction we went to where I'm standing there and I'm bidding and the auctioneer stops. He's like, isn't this guy with you? And he's pointing at Ed. I'm like, yeah, why? He goes, because he's bidding against you. Oh my goodness. But it was a good time and that was actually down in Baltimore, Baltimore area, Timonium. Is that how you say it? I think so, yeah. Yeah, we went down to that auction and there we bought one of everything they had. We bought the electromechanical pinball machine, we bought a slot machine, a puck bowler, jukebox, an inversion table because nobody knew what it was, and neon sign. I mean we had the trailer loaded down with literally one of just about everything they had there. Those were the days. That sounds like a lot of fun. I've never been to an auction. Yeah. I guess Super Auctions is still out there and they're still running auctions but they're very few and far between. I think the last notification I got from them they were in Texas. Yeah, here there's a big one down in Winston-Salem, North Carolina and one in Syverville, if that's how you pronounce it, Tennessee. Oh, okay. But that's all I know. And those ones have a lot of pinball stuff. I always see the price listings that people post. Yeah. Well, speaking of the auctions, that was where I got my first bingo machine. Yes, let's talk about that. What was your first bingo? My first bingo was the, well I guess it's my only bingo, is the Bally Beach Club. And we were at, once again, one of the super auctions, and this one we actually didn't buy anything at. And we were walking out and there was this bingo machine on the ground, it had no legs, The back glass was so peeling, you know, a sneeze would have made it completely clear glass. And it was just hanging on enough that we could tell it was a beach club. And we're walking out and Ed's looking at me and he's like, well, hmm. So let's see how much this thing goes for, you know, because this is when we were kind of starting getting into it. We only had probably a couple, maybe six machines between us. And we're kind of going further into the electromechanicals. And so we stay around and nobody wanted it. So we ended up picking this game up for like 25 bucks, I think. Wow. Yeah, you know, and so we got this game, we got it home and plugged it in and bunkied with a couple things and within maybe a half hour, we had thing halfway working. So it was it was really cool. I was really intrigued by all the switches and the way the motor was working, you know, so I was in my happy place there. So if we fast forward, I don't know, a couple, maybe about a month or so, I'm at work and we just had this massive reorg, right? So my friend, who I just happened to be talking to, he goes, hey, I ran into this guy in my new department and he has pinball machine pictures all over his desk. And I said, oh my, I've got to meet this guy, you know. And so he introduces us. His name was Len. He's from Murraysville up here by Pittsburgh. And first time I'm talking to Len, you know, he tells me all about Allentown because he always went to Allentown. And I was telling him about this bingo game I'm working on. And I said, you know, I got to find a back glass for this game because, you know, obviously I'm trying to get it back to working and kind of restored. And I'm telling him about it and he's looking at me and he's like, does this guy have a weird guy kind of on the back pretending like he's reading a newspaper staring at all the girls? I'm like, maybe. I'm like, I don't know because a good portion of his glass is missing. He goes, well, if that's real beach club, he goes, that sounds familiar. I think I have that at home in my closet. I'm like, the game? Hey Broker Toe This is thedayvisip.ining Ireland This show presents an actual-time analysis of deepriderfiners.tv. I'm a big friend of mine and pretty much talk to him every day about pinball nowadays. I met him at the show as well. He's a very nice guy too. Yeah, he had the big time. That's right. Yeah, so he's thinking about selling that and I'm very much thinking about buying that because I was liking the magic screen effects. The magic lines? I'm sorry, magic lines, yes. I thought that that was pretty cool. Yeah. So, you know, because the Beach Club is the one that's from what 1953 or something like that. So it just had the all the numbers painted on the glass and you spotted them by changing a wheel that just lit a red bulb behind each of the spotable numbers. So, yeah, I like the mechanics behind all the later games. I never really realized how early mine was until I started reading that Bally book. Yeah, it's a wealth of information. It really is. So yeah, Beach Club has super cards, correct? Yes, it has two super cards on the back, so you get, it's a three by three, so you get three in a row and it counts for four. camera So obviously they know exactly what they're doing. Yeah, I'm trying to see if it's in that picture. Unfortunately, it's not. It's on the playfield, but I'm pretty sure you get. Oh, yeah, here it is. Two, five and eight. So you get two, five and eight, whether it's the same numbers, whether it's yellow or red, but. Spots all three at the same time? Yes. Wow. That's. That's kind of generous and also makes you feel equally bad when you do end up getting two of those with your actual ball afterwards. Well, it tried. It tried. Well, I mean, that just shows you the beauty of, you know, when they were going through it is that it makes you think you're really getting an advantage, but there's a good chance you're really not. That's just a common number you get. I prove that over and over. That's the thing about the designer, Don Hooker. You know, he was a very smart guy and did an awful lot of testing to figure out which numbers people were likely to hit in which order. And yeah, there was a whole lot of math that went into the bingo playfield layout, which is pretty interesting to think about. That really is. Before I get into the bingos, I got to thank you again. I thank you at the show for doing this podcast because I knew a lot about bingos just because Ed loves them. He has a Bally Gay Time and he has a six card. I forget which one, but he has just a standard six card. I think it's a Spot-a-Liner or something like that, Bola Line, because it had the different names. They switched up for gambling reasons. But he's always drawn to them and loves them. So I've always had an appreciation for him. But until I really started listening to your show and listening to your explanations on some of the way the theory and how some of the mechanisms work and actually pulled my game out and started looking at it, got me re-interested, if you will. Excellent. Well, I gotta say you're the best kind of listener. One who actually experiments on their own game. That's good. And it's still working afterwards, which is a double bonus. Even better. So, yeah, big time. That's an excellent game. That one has all five magic lines, if I recall correctly. So you can move each of the columns. Is that right? I believe that is true. Yes. And I think that's the last Magic Lines game that Bally made. Yeah. Yeah, and that was what, 1955? So that was two years after my Beach Club game. Correct. And it was the same year as Gay Time. So the only differences between Gay Time and Big Time, I just now realized they both had time in the name. Gay Time has the magic pockets and Big Time does not but Big Time adds the fifth magic line which is pretty powerful I often wish it was there on the Gay Time Was Gayety and Gay Time the only games that used the Magic Pocket You're correct, yes. And Gayety only has three Magic Lines, so Gay Time added a fourth. So I appreciate the gameplay of Gay Time. However, I've never played a Gayety. So, I'm not sure, you know, what kind of advantages that that has. I do know that it has spotted numbers, but there's no indication on the back glass. It just lights on the card. Okay. So, Gay Time, they also added an indication saying, hey, this number's spotted. Not a malfunction. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was... Gayety was one that I think Len was actually looking at buying at one time. Yeah, like I said, Ed kind of got us all into it. Len was one of those guys that, much like myself before talking to Ed, was like, yeah, those are neat, and appreciated the mechanical nature of them, but until you actually start looking at the rules and what you're trying to do and realize how much thinking goes into Jason I got many four in a row on nightclub because I started, I played the hell out of that game. That's good. That's one of my absolute favorites. So did you enjoy the Magic Squares? I really did. You and I had kind of talked a little bit and I said I was looking for a game and the Magic Square is really what I'd like to get. I was looking through that Here And Here It actually moves six numbers at a time instead of four. It looks really neat. I'd like to play one someday at least. Yeah. Being able to find one for sale is a whole other problem. That's the issue. Yeah. But you're in a good part of the country for that. So, you know, you should be able to find some. You're right on the edge of six card territory, but there should be a pretty good selection around you. So yeah, that was another story that we touched on. If you wanted me to kind of go about that. When we were at, I guess there was a distributor repairman down in Pittsburgh who was closing. His name was Ginsburg. And when he was closing, you know, he took out his mate. I don't think he was closing either. The city was actually buying his property or something along those lines. And basically he took out all the stuff that he wanted to keep and then the remainder of the stuff I believe the city auctioned off or somebody auctioned off, maybe it was him. And Ed went down there and he ended up buying a shelf. I mean literally it was just this shelf up on the wall. You couldn't even see everything that was up there but you could tell there were several bingo games. And I think at the end of that, I mean he just ended up renting a truck and coming down there like, Yeah, all of this stuff over here is yours. And he ended up getting something like 10, 10 bingos out of there. Wow. And Len and he and I mainly, mainly he and Len, I did mainly just manual labor moving them. But got probably 80% of them working. I think there was a variety that the cabinet was just in shambles. We couldn't get that one back to to playing, but got a lot of them back to working and got those You know just back into the marketplace so that was pretty cool yeah that and there was one I can't speak very much about the game but it was funny because I bought a top score which is a Gottlieb two-player EM game and when I bought that it was out at the Allentown show they ran it once fairly recently I don't know maybe five years ago four years ago where it was in November they were We were experimenting with that before Ivan took over the main show in Allentown. So I bought this game and the guy had the body, just the body, not the head, of a hi-fi. And that's the one that has those bumper buttons. And it was gorgeous. I mean, it was completely redone. They redid all the rails. I mean, it was really nice. We kept that for years, you know, three or four, however long it was. Could never find a head for it. And I guess there was a guy who wanted to use it to, use it as a, I don't know if he was like putting mini legs on it and wanted to use it as like a table in his game room. And since we couldn't get a, couldn't find a head for it, Len ended up getting it to this guy. I guess he's using it as a table now, but it was a shame because we kept looking and trying to find it, you know. Honestly, I probably would end up hanging onto it a couple more years after listening to the podcast. I would love to play one of those one day. That is a gorgeous game, you know, in its photograph state. So, yeah, but that's, you know, one of the issues is that parts are kind of hard to come by if they're not, you know, standard coils or what have you. You know, it's a little hard to find a magic screen mechanism in its entirety. Right. Or the head of a hi-fi, so. Yeah. So, you're thinking Magic Square, so. Did you try any of the Magic Screens or the Mystic Lines or any of the other? Is it Carnival Queen that has... what's Carnival Queen have? That's a Magic Screen. Okay, yeah, I believe I've played the... Len has a Carnival Queen as well. Oh, cool. I played that several times at his house and that was very enjoyable. It's kind of neat the way you can move it and reposition such that you have different number combinations all together as opposed to just the same numbers you're moving around. You know, I thought that was really neat too. But I don't know what it was. I think I like the aspect of the squares because when you rotate, you can actually go from lining up horizontal to lining up perpendicular with the same two numbers. You know what I mean? As you rotate them around, I thought that was really neat. And I think that adds just one more dimension to thinking about the various orientations of how you move things as opposed to just moving the grid. Although I definitely appreciate the mechanical mechanism of the screen and sliding it across and things. I thought you might. Especially because it has to keep track for searching in an entirely different way on that. That is actually I think the most impressive thing. I was trying to, I was talking to my cousin today and I was trying to explain to him how that mechanism worked and the intricacies of being able to then know where, what position the screen is in so you can do the search and payout. And you know he didn't appreciate it until I kind of started going through all of it and then you saw the light bulb go on and he was like wow that is impressive that you know they could do all that. Yeah, I mean it's fascinating to think about. They did it all with relays, steppers, and massive discs. It's crazy. But yeah. So have you been in the guts of a six card or other type of bingo other than the beach club? Yes, some of the spot aligns, those types, but something like some of the later ones. I was looking at the, I don't remember playing the ticker tape, but that's a six card as well, right? Correct. I've never been in any of those. Just like I said, the standard, it's really just the six cards with the yellow line at the bottom. Those are the only ones that we had been at or I have personally worked at. Okay. Yeah, they're interesting because they have a whole second or third search disk inside. Right. And so, you know, the issues you can have with a single search disk. Right. Multiplying. Multiply it all. But, um, yeah, from what I understand, the, uh, six cards in the 1970s are a little more finicky than the ones later on because of the double or nothing feature. Uh, they have to hold immediately and then stay there. So any wiggle in the mechanism and you lose it. Uh, interesting stuff. But, yeah, back to Magic Squares for a moment. So, you know, one of the reasons that nightclub is one of my favorites, and I hesitate to say my all-time favorite, but it's pretty high up there, is because of the double, triple, or quadruple scoring in the colored lines. So, being able to rotate the numbers into the red or yellow line and then score double, triple or quadruple with the replays shown on the back glass is pretty cool. Yeah, that is neat. It's a good feeling. Have you played the ones that had that feature along with the lines such as like a beach time or a Cypress Garden? Sun Valley is the only one that I've played like that and that is an amazing game. It's incredible. You can move every number on the back glass. How does that bottom four on the left work? I thought you might be interested in that. So on the left, the squares are oriented in a different fashion, so it's not the ones in the corner on the bottom left. Right, it's just the bottom four, but the... There's a line at the bottom. And so they move, they're like circles on the bottom as well as up higher and it just rotates around down below. And then the last line all the way to the right moves just like a regular magic line? Well, that one also moves down. Okay. Yeah, the Sun Valley, I really like that one just because of the skiing thing. Yeah. So that one's also on my list for, you know, something that would be really cool if I could find. Once again, I'm sure that one will be very easy to just go down to the corner and find two or three. Oh, sure. Bevin and all the arcades around town here. Yeah. Now, does your beach club have a knocker for when you win features? No. Okay. Well, what is it? I don't know, but I know it doesn't have one. I'm not sure when they started taking those out, but I know Sun Valley has one. Cool. Mm-hmm. And that's really neat. It actually adds a whole different dimension to the sound of the game, which as you know, I mean, these machines make noise. Right. And as you start to get a feel for them, you kind of hear the music in it and you understand, oh, something's about to happen that's incredible here. Right. Yeah, that's true. So, um, well, sorry to jump away from the nightclub and then back again, but the, um, the Broadway was like nightclub as far as what you were saying about the multipliers, except it didn't go as high, right? Uh, nightclub went to quadruple, but I think Broadway only went to triple. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. And I've never played a Broadway, but I've played a Showtime, which is a Magic Squares. But it did not have the double, triple or quadruple. Okay. So they made several of the Magic Squares games and they're all I mean, they all have that mechanism. So, you know, that's one of the things that I find great about it. But nightclub in particular with being able to multiply your winnings is just It's fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's always an extra excitement factor when you can line it up, you know, when you say, oh, and I'm rotating it into the yellow. And it's lit! Sweet! You know, one of the more frustrating things with the moving number game, though, is when you realize that you could have made a combination and you totally missed it. But such is life. So, we didn't see it this year, but perhaps next year I'll bring the caravan back, and that's got a unique moving numbers feature as well. That one came in on Saturday, about halfway through the day. Oh, okay. And it's got a feature where the numbers rotate around in a circle, but it's about, I think Capt. I think its eight of them. So its pretty neat to see right into not the center of the card, but one row out. Oh, okay. Yeah that would be neat. And I, so of course I listened to your shows about the York show, and I can definitely appreciate not wanting to bring that many bingos back at once. That's impressive that you did that. But at the same time, I gotta say I definitely I appreciate you doing that because as I said I really enjoyed it. I went up and down the row and played a whole bunch. I don't think I played all of them because I kept going back to that nightclub. But yeah, if you're going to do that again next year, obviously in lesser numbers, yeah, I'd be willing to bring mine down. Maybe I'll have more than one by then and we can keep the bingo row going. I'm all up for that. Excellent. Excellent. And you're very welcome. You're very welcome. Of course, this was the intended effect. Sparking some interest. I've done one at least. Yeah, there you go. So yeah, next year I was planning on bringing at least one bingo myself, and I'm talking with the other bingo collectors and seeing who can bring what already, but, you know, it's a year away. That's a lot of time. Yeah, so we'll see what we can do about getting you a Magic Squares game. Okay, yeah, definitely keep your ears open if you hear something. Keep me in mind. I'll keep my eye out. So aside from bingos, what other types of VM games do you collect? You know it funny I kind of just anything I see that is different You know I don entertain nearly as much as I like to I here to talk about some of the things that I like to do but when I do I always like to have something that may interest just about anybody So like some of the different ones I have I have a 1959 Midway Joker ball And what that is is it set up it once again a gambling machine The so it has a clear window and you look in you You see a mirror so it projects down to the bottom and at the bottom there's a grid system five by five that includes and set up like cards so it has your nines through aces and then a joker in the middle and it essentially has five racquetballs down at the bottom so when you drop a dime in it fires and shoots all the racquetballs up they kind of fall roasting So if you're at a rally or some otherecco really long then look the other way if you're at a rally but if you're coming from a continual gig you're sawing happyifter even if you're coming from summer irgendwann it won't matter if it's opened offer on aнюgo I'm a fan of the pinball game. I've played it a lot and it looked different, so I got that. But it has the same type of search disk and search mechanism that the bingoes use, where it goes through and it's basically looking for, do you have the certain cards, if you will, to have those certain payouts. So it plays basically like you said, the same music and when something's about to happen. It's an exciting game. It's kind of neat, but it's completely random. I mean, you're not really shaking that machine very much. That was going to be my question is, is there any nudge factor to be had? No, not exactly, but it's fun. Does it have a tilt mechanism of some sort inside if you were to shake it? Yes, it does. Okay. So that's one of them. I talked about that puck bowler I got at the auction earlier. That's a 1970 Palos Verde, I think is how you say it, from United Amusements. Okay. And I guess the only thing with that, mainly I got that just because it was a, I liked the mechanical mechanisms on it and things, but I never even realized until somebody was saying, I was like, there's no way that's the original paint, but I never even thought about it, you know? So I looked up, it's not even the right color. They completely changed everything. I'm like, oh my goodness. Plays very well, so from that aspect it's pretty cool and it's fun. I have a 1970 midway flying carpet gun game. And that one I actually just bought that at the past this past Allentown show. So it's only halfway working. That's my next project. My son's very excited to get that working. But it's pretty cool. It's all complete. And that was one of the games that had a three three track. Yeah, it has three heads on it. And it has a, like a tape drive in it. Yeah. It's one disc. And it has three heads that read from it. So before I actually, I disconnected the sound unit and got the, and I'm working on the mechanical aspects of it right now. But I want to make sure there's no, nothing binding in that mechanism before I put it on because I've been checking on the, there's that website that reproduces a lot of the Old mechanic, all the old drive sounds. Right now that one's not available. So yeah, I'm going to contact the gentleman who does that and see if he has access to that. And if mine's good, I can offer that up so that maybe we can make it or I can make it, you know, and just upload the file for him so he can preserve that so others can use it. That's really generous of you. Yeah, that that's a good thing. So you said it was a midway? Yes. Does it use the clutch driven score reels? I haven't gone into the score reels just yet. Literally, I took it back maybe a week ago. Oh, okay. I started at the bottom because I know the, when I turned it on just to see what was working, the one, it has two targets in the back that move up and down and kind of in a circle. And then it has four targets in the front that are, I guess, guys in like the big vases that you'd see like in India from like Indiana Jones or something. They're all on top of those. When you hit those, they fall over. Well, the mechanism that moves the back two targets that moves around, that's a chain drive. And the one mechanism was working, the other one's kind of not. I don't know exactly why yet, but I think most of it's just everything's gummed up and things. So that's pretty much where I was other than disconnecting the sound mechanism so that nothing got ruined. And does that sound mechanism run through an amplifier circuit? Hmm. I wish I could answer that too. Unfortunately, I just unplugged it. Let me ask you all these incredibly detailed questions about something you've just poked your head into. That's right. Well, if it does, if it's, what year is it? 1970. 1970. It may have a primitive one. Probably your capacitors will need to be replaced. Take a peek. There may be a primitive solid state sound board. Okay, yeah, I'll take a look at that. And it handles amplification of the tape sounds. Okay, cool. Cool. Yeah. I was actually able to get a schematic for that off of Marco's. Cool. So I was surprised that they carried it there. Yeah, it's interesting sometimes the stuff that you'll find that vendors still have. I mean, it's incredible. But well, that's neat. Yeah. I've never owned a gun game, but they seem like they'd be a lot of fun at get togethers. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I've had a total I have I think right now I have 19 pinball machines and then a lot of these different other things that we're kind of talking about. And my dad, he walks down and says, Yeah, this is really neat, but never has any interest to play any of them. When I brought the gun game home. He's like, Oh, let me know when you get that working. I'd like to try that. So I was like, Alright, well, I finally found the one thing that interests him. So there you go. Yeah. It goes along that lines of trying to find something for everybody, you know. So it would be kind of cool if I can get him down there to try it out. And then, so yeah, other than that, I only have one other electromechanical and that is actually my latest requisition which is a Williams Ringer from 1970. That game is a lot of fun. I actually made a deal with my buddy Len for that game. And as soon as I got it home, first thing I did was I switched the back glass over to LEDs because it had a whole bunch of heat issues. Oh yeah. He sealed it up, but I was like, I'm not taking chances. So I used the warm white and then the things that were behind the grass I used green. So he was all, he's like, I can't believe you LED'd it. I'm like, you can't even tell. It's behind the glass. But yes, I got that done and but that's a great game. Are you familiar with that game? Yeah, I've been speaking a lot with Ryan Claytor and that's one of his favorite games. It's Penny Pitch which is actually the sister to Ringer. Okay. And same mechanic. Does the Penny Pitch, I saw the other day I was looking up some information on Ringer and there's penny pitch and then there was another one that uh... uh... darts yeah I was trying to figure out how those work was it penny pitch that had the higher scoring or was it darts? because mine is only two digits because it only throws uh... maximum or you can set it to throw either five or seven horseshoes okay and the only way to go beyond that is if you get a ringer on uh... the third or right now mine's set at five throws I think I'm gonna switch it to seven but for mine on the third throw or the fifth throw if you get a ringer you get to throw it again so technically if you can keep throwing ringers you can keep running the score up because you just keep getting an additional throw uh... but you can set that to uh... seven throws like I said and I think it may change if it's three and five it may I don't know, three in the last throw or something like that, but I honestly can't tell you that answer. But I was wondering how the penny pitch or the darts actually scored. Well, like I said, I thought that was a really neat game because of the fact that the mechanism for the throw, so when you go to spin the wheel, the mechanism pulls in so when it's a wheel that you turn in order to essentially We simulate throwing the horseshoe and then there's a wheel with a rubber ring around it that when you spin it actually is engaged and it starts to spin but then the solenoid disengages and then it effectively freewheels. So as it's freewheeling it's going around and just closing one switch and it steps itself as it throws to simulate the throw. So, it's kind of neat from the aspect, if you think about the horseshoes, you know, you get the, you know, you do your backswing, but when you let go, it's, it's on its way and there's nothing you can do about it. Almost like that, when you spin the wheel, as soon as you let go, you can hear the solenoid disengage and that's effectively you letting go of the wheel or letting go of the horseshoe. And then it's all downhill from there. You just gotta wait and see how it lands. I thought that was a really neat way to simulate that. You know, to bring you some, an outdoor game that obviously people would like to grab the wheel and slow it down or something. It's like you can do that, but it doesn't affect you. You've let go of the horseshoe. Right. You know, I guess if they were going to make that today, then they could do the same type of thing, maybe do like a cornhole, because you can still do the landing on top of the board in the, in the hole or sliding off the board. I thought that might be an interesting way to bring the same type of theory to today's games. Yeah, you know a lot of these things I could see them making today, but how profitable that would be I don't know. Oh yeah, that definitely would be, I'm not saying it would be actually profitable. I mean, but it'd be fun. So, yep. Well, what what is your favorite flipper game? I have to say my favorite flipper game, if we're talking about solid state or electromechanical, would be Wizard of Oz. OK. My wife actually surprised me with that for our anniversary slash my birthday. And I guess I was driving her crazy saying how much I wanted it and what should I sell and how much would I have to sell to get this thing, you know, and so she surprised me with that and I really like the gameplay on it, the rules, the way that the flow, it's my kind of game. You know, some people don't like the type of game where there's a lot of start and stop, which is kind of like a Pat Lawler thing, but obviously this isn't Pat Lawler, But it reminds me a lot of like Twilight Zone with the different playfield and the start stop type and really enjoy that game. But, you know, the funny thing is, I don't know if you can tell, but based on the conversation and the way my mind works, I actually work on them more than I play them, you know, so. That's how I feel most of the time, too. I just did a complete teardown swap of a playfield on a Indiana Jones, Williams Indiana Jones. That was the first time I did a complete cabinet restore where I put the new stickers on it and everything. The cabinet I had, somebody went through the trouble of going and buying brand new stickers, And somehow they applied them to the cabinet without taking out any of the hardware, the coin door, anything. They just stuck it on top of it and then went over and cut out all the... Sliced around? Oh, it was the most horrendous thing. It made my skin crawl just looking at it. So I got the enjoyment of taking two layers of stickers off of it. Oh, they didn't sand off the old ones? Oh, no, no, no. That would have been too much work. They just stuck it right on top. And then if that wasn't bad enough, they put some inside stickers on it, you know, like the pin graphics type stickers on the walls to give you a scene. Right. And they wanted to protect those stickers. So they put heavy industrial felt like the stuff you would put under a chair or something in your kitchen on the side of the playfield. And it was like a quarter inch thick. So when they put the playfield down, it actually blew the sides of the cabinet out. So I had to literally re-glue and re-clamp this whole thing back together. I was sanding for days. And I think I burned myself out on the cabinetry. I think I'm done with that. Yikes. But at least I can say I did it once. Yeah, there you go. And are you enjoying the game? I am. It's a great game. I think that as far as just having two flippers for as much stuff as in that game, I thought it was very interesting. But yeah, I really enjoy it. You know, it's kind of funny. I have the way my basement's set up, it's kind of compartmentalized because it was a completely finished basement. And I didn't really want a finished basement. I just wanted something for games, you know, a game room. So when I went down there, I ripped a couple of the walls out and put all the carpeting in. But I have, like when you go immediately into the basement, the front room is all like my newer stuff. So I have a couple games like Theater of Magic and Wizard of Oz, things like that up front, you know. And then if you go to the left, I have more of the, like System 11 type games, you know, like I have roller games and Whirlwind and Funhaus, Elvira and the Party Monsters, those things. But then I go to the back room and that's where I have a lot of the electromechanicals. I think I have one, I have a Bally Paragon. So that's kind of like the only of that generation I have. But then I have the Slick Chick, Gottlieb Slick Chick, Gottlieb World Fair, and now the Gottlieb GG that I bought off you at the York Show. And I just realized when I was you know I was just kind of taking a couple notes so So I make sure I talked about the electromechanical things in this talk And I didn realize that those are three of my favorite games I always, the Slick Chick and the World Fair, I sought out for a long time. And the GG was on my list, so I was actually very excited when I got that one. But I realized that they were all designed by Wayne Neyens and art by Roy Parker. I thought that was kind of neat. Once I kind of traced that value, I was like, huh. So apparently he's my favorite designer from that era. There you go. And you picked a good one. I mean, he made some excellent designs. World Fair, that's a great game. I really enjoy that game. I like that mechanism in the middle that spins the disc. You know, the way that that all comes together. And the sequence to light the special, the way they have the mechanism so it knows when you trigger the numbers, the bank is broken into two sets. So there's like one through six and then seven through twelve. And one through six goes, but it's a long bar that goes across that hits that final contact. So there's really only two contacts that need to be closed for you to activate the special. So I was going through chasing that because my special light would come on but it wouldn't fire and I'm trying to figure out where it was and I actually had a contact that was bent on the replay counter. So it actually went up to the counter through a switch there and that's what the final switch that had to be made in order to activate the special when you got it. Well, you know, you found it. That's right. Yeah, some issues can be infuriating, but then you fix them and, you know, it feels great to actually have it working. Yeah, and I liked when I was telling you about the having a, I had three games all go down I'm sitting there looking at my electric mechanical, you know, these don't give me problems. Once they're running, they're happy. You know, and I thought it was funny because you said, yeah, you get into those and they can turn into an odyssey. And I thought that's a, that is a good way to put that because they do. You know, I'm like, I'm two games down because I'm switching boards between them trying to figure out what's going on. I'm like, why am I doing this to myself? It makes you think about pinball in general and why they felt the need, I mean, for obvious reasons, to compete with video and the like and to compete for attentions and dollars, but I feel like EM pinball by itself could still succeed in a limited form. But yeah, it's certainly a lot easier to troubleshoot. You don't have this weird black box that you have no knowledge of exactly what it's doing in the middle. So, yeah, I was listening to some podcasts on the way home today and it had a question and I thought that would be a good question to ask you. And that's what do you think of the the throwback? Well, Nellie game. Well, believe it or not, I still haven't played it. And I think that it's an interesting experiment. And I am interested to see if more of those types of games come out. I'm a little intrigued. You know, I really should have played it at York, but my attention was diverted. Yeah, understandable. But I'm curious as to how the solid state flippers and pops and so forth feel, Because when you approach it, it looks like a rethemed Gottlieb wood rail, which is, you know, what it started life as. Right. Two inch flippers, you know, similar pops with the throwback pop tops and all that. But I have no idea, obviously, how it plays. So I don't know if the flippers feel super snappy, you know, much more than they should or anything about it. Have you played it? Yes, yeah, I did. I kind of thought a lot like what you're describing right now. I thought it played a little bit too snappy. But in that regard, I've never played a brand new in box DM, so who knows, maybe it actually plays pretty close. But from what I'm used to, even, you know, the rebuilt flippers, I thought it was a little too snappy. But at the same time, for what it was, I thought it was pretty neat. My only disappointment in that was the initial one had the gobble hole. Yes. Very excited to have that coming back, you know, and they even had the turkey sound effect with it. I was like, oh, this is going to be great. And then I guess I thought I was listening to something where they said people didn't know what to do Betrayal I think it's quite clever. Yeah, I liked how they worked it in where in some of the games you would be rewarded if you drained it or you put it in the gobble hole at the right time. Yep. I thought that that type of ingenuity helped. I thought it was a very interesting way to almost make people want to end their game because there's the chance that you do it at the right time, you get more replays. With the jardines eandooyo tr But then, you know, I like weird stuff. But I, how do you feel about outlane specials? Outlane specials. Um, I think that's a lot like the, a lot like the gobble hole, you know, where you're timing it. And you can set those up. Because I mean, even if you go to some of the newer games where they had the outlane extra ball, right? It's kind of like a lesser of the same. I think that's an interesting way to look at it because it's kind of one of those, oh, if I can bounce it over, I get a whole other game, but then at the same time, nothing bounces exactly like you want and you can't exactly shoot the out lane very well. Yeah, I think that's an interesting, it's another one of those things that makes you feel like you're getting something when maybe you're really not because half the time it goes down the other lane. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. So you've got three classic 60s Gottliebs there. Do you think you'll ever add another one? There's always a chance. I had a bowling queen that I really intended on getting restored and put into my lineup, but it kind of kept getting displaced by other projects. Right now, most of my projects get prioritized based on what my son likes because I'm trying to lure him into the basement more. So, you know, when he says, oh, get work on that game next, I do move that one up, you know, and the bowling queen really wasn't getting there for him. So I was afraid that it wasn't going to take a long time and I knew Len was looking for one. So that was part of the ringer deal. And I know that he'll get that restored. So I actually get to play it at his place because he does an excellent job with restoring the all the EMs. He's an EM guy. He has a lot of EMs and a lot of the classics. So he's always a good person when I want to see what game or a highly rated game, if you will, such as he just finished a Gottlieb North Star. Oh, that's a great game. Yeah, and I never even saw one until he picked this up and, you know, he did a complete redo on it and I played that and man, that is a fun game. I had no real appreciation for it because I never really saw it to play it, you know, but he picked it up kind of like a basket case, you know, and turned it into a beautiful machine. So, yeah, I'd definitely add to that. As I said right now for the EMs, you got me going on these bingos. I got to get another one. I'm going to get that first and then I'll probably keep my eye open. That's one of my favorite things to do at like Allentown. I spend most of my time walking through the flea market area. And if I don't come home with at least one game, something went wrong. Well, you got a few months. So who knows, you know, that bingo might be waiting for you there. It might be. It might be. But, well, have you ever worked on a Bally flipper game, EM? Bally flipper game. Let's see, what have I worked on? I worked on Williams, Bally, uh, Space Time? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I owned a Space Time. Um, that one was an interesting game, so yes, I guess I have. I find, uh, that working on a bingo and working on a Bally EM, uh, there's a lot of overlap, uh, with the score motor versus the control unit and things of that nature. It's not not clutch driven but you know you've got a similar setup so I guess what I was getting at is if you're comfortable working on a bally flipper game then you might be pretty comfortable working on a bally bingo. Okay. Yeah, like I said I'll try anything once and now I have this excellent resource of your podcast to kind of go through when I have a question so I'm all for it. I'll try anything once or twice. Oh yeah. But, yeah, that was more of a, for other folks, I am quite confident that you'll be just fine. Now, did you fix up the beach club? Did it have issues when you got it? Yeah, some of the features weren't working. So some of the, I forget the proper name, the spider, spider contacts, that's how I describe them. Some of those arms weren't lined up with the rivets properly, so I had some that were just contacting partially, so once I took that apart, got everything cleaned up and reoriented, things started coming together. The only thing right now that isn't working 100% is the reflex unit. I can't say that's bothering me a lot because I get all the features pretty easily. You would think that means I win a lot more, but unfortunately it doesn't. But you have the potential. That's right. I feel like I'm going to win every game. So, um, are the, have you troubleshotted at all? Do you know if coils are firing or anything's happening with it? No, I have not. And actually just, uh, I want to say last week I said to myself, I should probably go back and start doing that. So I went back and listened to your reflex, um, talk. So I'm going to go in and see if I can do that and I'll probably shoot you a text or something, let you know how that goes and see what, uh, see what's coming up with that. And yeah, you know, Len gives me a hard time there because he's a very, very much a purist. He had his setup with all the nickels there so he could be feeding the nickel. I'm like, why don't we free play this? He's like, it's authentic. You know, you got to get the whole experience. So yeah, he was giving me a hard time that my reflex, he's like, I don't think your reflex units work. I'm like, I'm okay with that. He's like, no, no. That's impressive that he can tell that just from the gameplay. That's cool. Yeah, he really dug into the bingos once he got the bug. And the Carnival Queen, he picked that up out at the Ohio show. You know, it was just in the flea market area, standing up there and got that home. And I think it lit up. That was about it. And then he dug into that and got it working 100 percent. So he's very much into them. I'm going to go ahead and get into them. It's a good EM troubleshooter. He troubleshoots faster than I plug most of them in, but I get there eventually. Well, you got to plug them in faster. That's the first thing. That's it. I'll be back. I wanted to publicly thank you for all your help with the GG when it was in the free play area. I had a frustrating morning that morning and the 25 volt line cold soldered itself right off of the transformer and I was troubleshooting that circuit and Chad came over and was as nice as could be and helped me figure it out so I really appreciate that. Oh yeah, no problem on that. I enjoy it. Like I said, I was, I heard you were going to be at the show and I was very interested in meeting you just so I could thank you for all the good podcasts that you do. And like I said, it really brought me back into looking at my bingo smorgasbord. I always wanted it there because I like to try and have a little bit of everything, you know, but really getting back into the appreciation and then at the show, man, I tell you, you really lit a fire under me to go find one of these. I'm going to be out and about looking around. So thank you very much. I definitely had a good time talking to you. So I appreciate you having me on. I want to thank my guest, Chad Dubowski, for coming on and talking with me about his fabulous EM collection, as well as his love for the bingos, both new and old. And uh... Chad, I'm gonna keep my eye out for you. There's lots of good bingo deals to be had all over the country. But, that's all for tonight. Thank you very much for joining me. My name again is Nick Baldrige. You can reach me at 4amusementonlypodcast at gmail.com or you can call me on the bingos line at 724-BINGOS1 724-246-4671 724-246-4671 You can listen to us on iTunes, Stitcher, Pocket Casts, via RSS, on Facebook, on Twitter, at Bingo Podcast. You can follow me on Instagram at nbaldridge, or you can listen to me on the website forumusementonly.libsyn.com. Thank you very much for listening and I'll talk to you next time.